City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Planning Board, 16 Jun 2022

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From YouTube: 6.16.2022 Planning Board

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6.16.2022 Planning Board

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Good evening, everybody welcome to the june 16th 2022 meeting of the portsmouth planning board.

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Our city manager is joining us by zoom this evening, she's.

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Going to be attending with technological advancements.

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We have one other member not present, of.

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At least the first applications, frankly, would you like to sit for miss magala, sure.

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And we have approval of minutes to get sort of uh cleaned up that we haven't been able.

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To tend to for a while april minutes are still not ready for us to review. There's.

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They'll be with us next week, there's been some technical difficulties.

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So I guess the first one we have is the may 19th regular meeting minutes.

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Anybody have any comments concerning those and make a motion to approve the minutes. Second,.

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Any discussion chairman just that I would have to abstain from these, since I was not.

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Here for these meetings, I understand just with the record show. Thank you. Thank you.

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No discussion, all those in favor aye aye, mr chairman, I think we have to.

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Take roll call votes, I'm sorry, I'm sorry you're right, you're, correct! I'm sorry.

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Thank you for the reminder.

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You're welcome. Can you find it? I had it a minute ago, one minute.

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It's right there. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I see it. Okay,.

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Board member um durenzo.

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He's not oh she's he's in the minutes.

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Penny board member hewitt: yes, any board. Member almeida he's abstaining any board member clark. Yes,.

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County board member conor, yes, chairman shellman, yes,.

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County board member moreau: uh yes, honey board. Member harris, yes, planning board member mahana; yes,.

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And planning for there's plenty more members. Are you? Yes? Okay, I'm not voting, but yes are.

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You not voting tonight is he sitting in for no you're sitting? Okay. Next we have the march 30th.

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Minutes and may 5th special meeting and may 5th special meeting make a motion to approve.

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Second, any discussion on those.

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Ready for roll call.

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Planning bill. Remember: dirianzo, yes, funny board member hewitt, yes funny bird member.

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Almeida obscene any board member clark: yes any board member connor, yes, chairman shellman, yes,.

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Monday board member moreau: yes, planning board member harris; yes, plenty board! Member, huh yes,.

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Approved a little feedback there, um so we have may 19th site walk, not everyone.

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Tonight was present at that, but most of us were.

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I'd make a motion that we approved the minutes from this uh sight. Walk second.

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Ready for roll call discussion, yes, uh there's a typo last bullet point solid waste.

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And then I it's mentioned briefly that attorney sullivan provided an overview, but there was also.

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Significant dialogue with attorney sullivan regarding what we were allowed to speak about.

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What we were going to speak about- and that was a pretty likely part of the beginning of the process.

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And I think it should be in the minutes.

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We actually I looked at these minutes and we had a planning director. I had a conversation about that.

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The important part of attorney sullivan's direction was that the board should not be.

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Deliberating on the sidewalk- and he went into some detail about why I don't know that we need.

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To say all of that detail, if you wish to propose an amendment to the minutes, happy to entertain.

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That I, like the concept that he was directing, what we were and were not supposed to be talking about.

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That is, that is what happened. Yes. May I make a comment absolutely. um I think it.

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Felt more to me like he was telling us how we should take the information like this. We.

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Don't actually have an application in front of us, therefore, we were just there to get the.

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Lay of the land, so when we had an application, we kind of understand fully what the property.

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Was and how everything was laid out, so I sort of saw that more as people asking questions.

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For clarification as to what he was talking about more than true dialogue, but that's just my opinion.

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Mr sure, yes, I was confused also that day, based on what attorney sullivan.

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Said and based on what was written on the handout, the handout mentioned.

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Eminent domain procedures, procedures and a jerk on the jury standard, so I had a little.

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Issue with what was spoken versus what was handed out. That's my own comment. Okay. Well, in my.

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Experience of doing sidewalks, and also looking at this a little bit with the new hampshire municipal.

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Association, they are not that uncommon. I think it may be somewhat uncommon. It's certainly uncommon.

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Last year with this board, but it's basically just a public meeting to gather information.

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It is absolutely not permitted to deliberate while the board is on site. It's a public set meeting. We.

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Did have a couple of people from the public show up at the end of the meeting, as you may recall,.

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And they had just wanted to know what we're doing.

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That's all fine, I think.

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I had some issues. It was difficult to hear everything attorney sullivan said because it.

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Was quite loud while we're out there on site, um but from what I heard I had you know, I could have.

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We could have gotten into a debate back and forth about things, but I think the important point.

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And it's an absolutely correct point is that the board should not be deliberating while they're.

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On a sidewalk- and I, when we didn't the board, didn't do any deliberation. While we were there.

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Again, if, if one of them, you wish to propose an amendment to the minutes,.

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Any further discussion ready for a roll call.

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We have a motion and a second to approve these minutes. Now the roll call vote honeywell member.

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Delorenzo yes, funny board member hewitt, yes, honey board. Member almeda, yes, planning board member.

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Clark, yes, hunting board member connor abstain. I was not present for that meeting chairman.

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Shellman yes kind of remember yes, county board member harris! Yes, plenty board! Member mohan! Yes,.

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Those minutes are approved.

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We now have a request of the north church of portsmouth.

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As the owner for property located at 355, spinning road, we're looking for determination, completeness.

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For preliminary and final subdivision approval.

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I make a motion vote to determine that the application is complete according to our subdivision subdivision regulations. Second, any discussion.

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Roll call vote.

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Honeywell, remember dirianzo, yes, any board member hewitt, yes, planning board member almeida, yes and.

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Member clark, yes, planning board member connor, yes chair gentleman, yes,.

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Honey board member monroe: yes, final member harris, yes, planning board member ohana; yes,.

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And this is a point of clarification for the members of the public here, and this is not.

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Optional for us, we are required to have these roll call votes when one of our members is not present.

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Physically, so we're not trying to uh delay anything here so next on the agenda, we have.

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A request to propose a request to postpone the request of master run. Restaurants.

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Inca's owner and granite state convenience applicant for property, 2255, lafayette, road.

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Where they will be requesting site plan review and conditional use approval.

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For 19.40 under section 1044, to allow a drive-through facility.

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Properties shown on assessors map 272 lot 3 and lies in the gateway corridor. District g1 district.

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And it's on lot 2213.. We have a motion to postpone consideration of this application.

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Motion postponed until june 23rd, we have a second second, any discussion.

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I'll just point out before we vote the planning director and I did meet before.

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This tonight to split the agenda because we were concerned initially that we needed to.

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Do so now a lot of stuff is getting pushed next week, so we could be facing a pretty.

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Honorous burden next week just keep that in mind as we go ahead so.

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We're ready for roll call vote.

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Honey board member dirianzo, yes, county board, member hewitt, yes, cunning, board member almeda.

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Yes, honey board member clark, yes, honey boom member card. Yes, chair, chairman, yes, honey,.

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Board member monroe: yes, plenty board member harris; yes, plenty board: member mohanna! Yes,.

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We have a request from the north tour support system's owner for property at 355.

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Spinney road requesting perimeter and final subdivision approval to subdivide one lot.

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One existing lot with one hundred forty six thousand six hundred sixty six square feet of.

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Lot area and ten thousand four hundred twenty nine and sixty eight hundred speed of frontage into two.

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Lots as follows suppose lot, one with seventeen thousand eight hundred seventeen square feet of.

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Lot area and one hundred seventeen and six tenths feet of frontage proposed lot too, with one hundred.

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Twenty eight thousand eight hundred forty nine square feet of lot area and three hundred sixty.

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And sixty two hundred feet of lot frontage. This property is located on the assessor's map. 169 lot.

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1 and lies within the single residence b district, lu 22-49, who is here to speak to this application.

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Name and address for the record, please sure, mr chairman and members of the board, my name.

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Is liz good and I am representing north church of portsmouth tonight.

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I'm also a long-term member also with me, is nathan amston of h.h amzin and sons. Surveyor.

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Surveying and he has been our surveyor on this process.

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We are seeking subdivision approval for 355 spinney road. It's it's a large lot and it has.

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Two buildings currently on it, our parish house and our parsonage, the parsonage building, was.

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Bequeathed to the church, I would say in the 1970s and it was merged, you know, onto the bigger lot.

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So we've been at this for several years and the church has been busy doing strategic.

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Planning and envisioning north church's future, and so the membership recently voted to move.

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All of our operations, our church operations, down to the downtown building the church and market.

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Square at 2 congress street and then to put the parish house building up for sale. But in order.

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To do that, we wanted to. We want to retain the parsonage, because we use that, for our ministers.

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And so that is why um we are here tonight: we've been before the tac committee. We've uh had one.

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Work session and that was very helpful. They gave us a lot of recommendations and then we have had.

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Two subs subsequent meetings with tac, where we have tweaked our plan and we have incorporated.

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The recommendations that they that they um offered, and so we feel like we have the best plan possible.

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Some of the some of that tweaking was making the parsonage lot larger.

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We had wanted to kind of stay around the 15 000 square lot minimum, but we in or but we decided.

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To follow the stone wall as our left property line, and then we also extended the rear property line.

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To encompass the all the sewer mechanism that that is back there, we also offered to do a a die test.

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For the sewer um running from the parish house property- and we did determine that.

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That was correctly marked on our plan, and it does. It does discharge out at the bypass.

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So that that is that's the plan before you and you know we, we hope you will find it adequate and.

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With that I'll answer, any questions that you might have. Thank you very much questions from the board.

F

Yes, the chairman uh quick question: um this might be uh better answer, but mr hamston, but the sewer.

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Shown going into the jason lot, the easements all taken care of, as far as with the abutters.

F

Well, the current easement applies to the lot because the lot now has changed shape, so a revised.

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Easement should be issued and referenced the recorded plan just showing that the um the lot has.

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Changed the easement hasn't moved okay, so these are already well in place and everything yes, okay,.

D

But I think I think it should be reissued just to clarify and reference the plan also for future.

F

Reference because nobody really knew where it was before great. Thank you.

I

And I would like to add that we did have some sewer issues a while back.

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And um that whole line has been rebuilt. Okay, thank you. Any other questions of the board.

A

Yes, yes, I just have a more curiosity question. You said that it at one point um the parsonage.

H

Was merged with the main church lot in the 70s, so does that mean originally? They were separate lots.

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um Well, that was a separate lot. It was owned by annie mcintosh, who willed it to our church, but.

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Yes, there were other parcels um on on the um well, maybe you can yeah talk about the.

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Visual parts there were actually three parcels: the percentage itself.

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um Then the primary lot that had the parish house- and there was a small rectangle.

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uh Near the bridge, and so they were referenced in the deeds as apostles one two and three okay.

H

In the parsonage hall itself was built in the early 60s yeah, the parish house, paris. I'm sorry.

H

The parish- yes, yes, um yeah early 1960s, I believe all right, yeah, I'm just just curious. That's all.

A

Any other questions within the board. Thank you very much I'll open up the public hearing.

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Any members of the public present here by zoom would like to speak 2-4 against this application.

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Anybody on zoom.

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There's three rounds of speaking since nobody is showing their hands. Nobody.

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Showing up on zoom last call, anybody was to speak too far against this application.

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That was not a hand in the air, but you you are allowed to speak during the public hearing, but.

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Liz, yes, you, okay, I'm gonna close the public hearing.

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What's the pleasure of the board.

F

Mr chairman, I'll make a motion that we vote to approve preliminary and final subdivision.

F

As presented with the stipulations 1.1 through 1.4 in the planning staff memo, second, do you.

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Want to speak to your motion, corey yeah, I mean I. I think this is uh almost as straightforward as.

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We can get as far as a subdivision plan. You know making sure also that the the.

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Parsonage is going to meet the minimum lot. Zoning requirements and other items, such as the easement.

F

So, okay, any other comments.

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I guess we're ready for a roll call vote.

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24 member dude lorenzo aye planning board member hewitt, yes, honey board. Member almeida. Yes,.

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Clinton board member clark: yes funny board member connard, yes, chair, chelmer, yes,.

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County board member monroe: yes, plenty board: member harris, aye hunting board member mohanna. Yes,.

A

Motion carries unanimously application is approved. Thank you very much.

A

We have another public hearing in the quest of 404. Isn't con street llc is.

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Owner property at 404 isn't construed requesting a conditional use permit under section 10.1112.14.

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Of the zoning ordinance provide 10 parking spaces.

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Where 13 are required, the property is shown on assessors map 145 lot 33 and is located in the.

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Historic district in the character district, 4, l2, cd4, l2, lu, 22-74, I'll note that this is just.

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A conditional use permit request, not a site plan who's here to speak for this application.

J

Good evening, mr chair members of the board of attorney john boson, I represent the applicant.

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Applicants under contract to purchase 404 islington street.

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And with me tonight is timothy johnson tim is the owner of the company.

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We also have sarah howard from market square architects and john shagnon from ambit engineering.

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We're here tonight requesting a conditional use permit under section 10.11 12.14 of the.

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Zoning ordinance to provide 11 parking spaces for a 10 roman, where 13 spaces are required.

J

Property currently operates is the martin hill inn, which is a seven unit in and a caretaker.

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Suite the applicant is proposing to renovate the interior structure by removing the caretaker suite.

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And providing a total of 10 units so there'll be no caretaker suite at the end, we'll be able.

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To provide 11 on-site parking spaces where 13 are required, the projects were invented by city staff,.

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As well as the technical advisory committee, we now seek a conditional use permit before this board.

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As a final step, the applicant will need a special exception from the zoning board, because the use is.

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Changing here so slightly from a bed and breakfast to an end and that application has been filed with.

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The zoning board so now turning to the criteria for the conditional use permit under section 10.11.

J

12.141 ambit engineering has provided a parking demand analysis which has been reviewed by attack.

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This report shows only a negative increase in parking demand and does not substantially alter.

J

The parking conditions in the neighborhood of section 10.11, 12.142 applicant, does believe.

J

There's sufficient on-site parking for its guests, but in the event additional parking is required.

J

There is some parking along issington street, as well as nearby downtown public and private parking.

J

Lots which does mitigate the need to provide 13 parking spaces at the request of tech. We.

J

Did explore the opportunity for additional parking outlets for our guests? Should there ever be a need.

J

For more than 11 spaces and as you'll see in your packet, the owners of 54 court street have agreed.

J

To enter into a parking arrangement for over full parking for up to five parking spaces, if needed,.

J

I do want to stress that mr johnson, who is in the hospitality business, does not actually see the.

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Potential for over overflow parking because the inn has 10 rooms, it will have 11 parking spaces.

J

But we have an overflow plan just in case the implant is to allocate one parking space for.

J

Each unit, which mr johnson would say, is industry standard, meaning that guests typically arrive.

J

At an inn with one car, the owner is going to utilize an online advanced check-in system, so.

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Guests will know in advance that they can only arrive in one car. But if there is a need for.

J

More than one parking space per unit, we do we'll know in advance and we'll have the opportunity to.

J

Implement the overflow parking on 54 court and, lastly, into section 10.11 12.143. We.

J

Do believe on-site parking is adequate and appropriate for the proposed use of the property.

J

In closing, this property has been a bed and breakfast for many years in its present location.

J

There's no exterior renovations being changed. The interior room count is going from 7 to 10 units.

J

We do believe, there's sufficient parking.

J

And also because it sits in the west end, there's a lot of transformation, as you know, going on in.

J

The west end so there's a lot of walking and biking opportunities for our guests.

J

So we don't see this as the type of thing where people are going to need their cars to go.

J

To the attractions that portsmouth has to offer, that concludes the presentation myself and our.

J

Team are happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. Questions of the board.

A

Council in rome, how much you say, 10 rooms, but what is the occupancy of the room? Are they.

D

Two person: four persons, six people, eight people, I'm gonna- refer to tim.

J

On that, if you don't mind it's tim johnson, how are you um there'll be dual occupancy.

G

Single bed, dual lock and see: okay, so no more than like two people great. Thank you.

A

Just for the record you're tim johnson, uh yep tim johnson of csq realty. Thank you pleasure.

A

Just jim yeah I'm kind of confused about what's being asked because in our.

H

Description from the playing department, you're asking for I'm sorry, um you're proposing.

H

A 10 parking spaces and you're showing 11 on the plans. So what's being asked we are, we are.

J

Showing 11 so we have, we have, there are 10 now we will have 11. and the ordinance requires 13.. Okay,.

H

Yeah, okay, so um one other another question on parking spaces: nine and ten.

H

Closer to islington street.

H

Those weren't delineated as spaces. Are you confident that you're your standard.

H

Portsmouth space can fit in that area, those ones you might refer to john shaggy from ambush.

J

Yeah, so there are two parking spaces: those spaces have been in existence.

J

For many years um so they're pre-existing, you know non-conforming spaces, but they've been in use.

J

As long as that, inn has been there, which has been there for quite a long time,.

J

So it's our position- and I think we vetted this with tac- that those are grandfathered spaces.

H

Well, um grandfathered, as in they're allowed, they may not meet the standards. Dimensionally is that.

H

What you're saying yes, they are existing, you know really. The parking situation is.

J

Existing conditions so that that inn has been there for many many years.

J

The existing parking, in particular those two, those two spaces, have been in existence for many years.

J

So we're not altering the exterior of the building or doing any alteration to those parking spaces.

H

Do you know what the dimensions are in those spaces.

J

John shagging from ambit engineering may be able to answer that.

J

Yeah the spaces are, uh I believe, there's about 20 feet between the buildings.

E

And there is a photograph in your submitted material showing the space. It shows one car.

E

But you can see there's plenty of room to park to there. I don't know if you want to if I could jump.

A

In here I think, uh if we first is clarification, the request you're making tonight is for a.

A

Conditional use permit for 11 spaces where 13 are required. Is that correct? That is correct? The.

A

Detailed, the dimensional details of those spaces are the next step that would come under site.

A

Plan which I assume you, if you get the special exception, you would be back to this board for.

A

Site plan approval is that correct? I don't believe so so, but you didn't ask for site plan approval.

K

So I can speak to that site plan. Approval is not required in this instance, because there is no.

E

Expansion of the building there is no creation of five or more parking spaces, nor is there creation.

E

Of 800 or more square feet of impervious surface, so we don't meet any of the criteria that requires.

E

Safe plane approval we do need a conditional use permit for parking to change the use, which is why.

E

We're here that's that's good, but the dimensional relief that you can get is under site plan.

C

um I would like to offer something here: it was the tax determination that these.

C

Are essentially existing non-conforming spaces um as the use was expanding, we.

C

Did ask for some improvements to be made. This include and they have notes on the.

C

Proposed plan that shows the part the spaces are being restriped straight uh straightened.

C

And lengthened to 18 feet, new pavement is being added next to space. One and eleven.

C

Driveway would also receive more payment that result in widening, but none of these things would.

C

Trigger sight plan review, he is correct in his determine in his uh explanation of what is exempt.

C

From site plan review, we did not um ask them to seek dimensional relief for the existing spots.

A

Okay, I think it may pertain to other aspects of the application, so I'm fine with it. If you are.

A

You have jim, you have all set yep corey had a question.

F

Just real quick, so are these these spaces going to be assigned for a particular unit? You check in.

F

And I'm in unit five, I get a space five and okay. That's my only question. Thank you.

F

Any other questions I have one: do you have any history of the use.

A

Of the parking with the seven rooms that you've had on site.

E

So sarah, this caretaker cottage use the union street parking. Is that correct? So the union street.

E

Parking, uh the one that we talked about with the two spaces that was used by the caretaker crowd.

E

And so they lived there a couple: they probably had two cars forever and then the rest of the spaces.

E

Were for their guests and it's been operated for many years, I would have to say at least 30 and.

E

The history and what the tax committee felt was appropriate is that.

E

It's operated and there hasn't been an issue for that length of time with those other spaces that.

E

Makes sense answering your question yeah, so there had. Obviously there hasn't been overflow going out.

A

Beyond the yeah, no neighborhood complaints, none of that. I you know, I think that's.

E

Well, thought of in the neighborhood not as a nuisance, so on and so forth.

E

So it and, as the planning director said, the the spaces work now and they're, not.

E

Even really delineated, so we're going to add that delineation and make it a lot clearer.

A

And you're widening the driveway, the access drive to union street, yes, okay, any other.

A

Questions from the board, I have a question for the planning department for beverly. I guess.

L

What do we know about the his if and maybe nothing, but the history of any conditional.

L

Use permits from there's been a lot of development on islington street in the last couple of years.

L

With new housing and conversions, have there been a lot of conditional use.

L

Permits requested, do we know or from um having been all here six months.

L

It's the first I've seen, but I I could definitely we could definitely do a deeper dive to understand.

C

How many parking cps we looked at this is something we could look at. I can probably answer.

D

That quicker and uh now, to my knowledge, like all of the residential units that have the little sub.

D

All have their own parking and enough parking um they didn't have any. So that's really the only.

D

Major development- that's in that area, I'm just asking at a sensitivity and concerned with.

L

Parking becoming a pretty sensitive issue in town it's further out, but it's kind of pushing out.

D

Very close to my house, so I'm very sensitive to it. May I may or may not hear something in.

E

The public hearing too, um is the remote check-in, a condition you're willing to make as a part of the.

A

Is that part of the application? Yes? Okay, any other questions, I think that's it ready for the public.

A

Hearing, thank you. Thank you open the public hearing in this application. Is there anybody.

A

Present or on zoom we'd like to speak to for or against this application.

A

Nobody on zoom, nobody present.

A

One more call: I'm ready to close the hearing, I'm going to close the public hearing, ready.

A

For board deliberation, mr chairman I'll make a motion to vote to find that the number of.

F

Off-Street parking spaces provided will be adequate and appropriate for the proposed.

F

Use of the property and to grant the conditional use permit as presented.

F

With the following stipulation, 1.1, as shown in the planning board staff memo, second.

G

That was my name. Sorry, do you want to discuss your motion? Sure yeah, I you know it's parking.

F

Obviously, is is a concern to everyone I think in in this case, 10 units 11 spaces.

F

I think it should work. It has worked at this particular location in the past and I think.

F

Having the spaces assigned to the guests and with remote check-in, it all should work. I haven't heard.

F

I know this is also this remote check-in um is happening elsewhere in the city as well as far as.

F

I know um we haven't heard any negative feedback to that effect, but um yeah. So I think it's all set.

A

Councilman, um I just like to say that, especially with the occupancy of each of the rooms and 10.

D

Rooms, you're very doubtfully not going to get people with more than one car, but if they do.

D

um They're going to probably most likely be in the same room and one can drive one to the.

D

Other parking lot to drop off one car and come back and park in that one. So.

D

I feel like it's: it's appropriate based off of the actual occupancy of the rooms and the rooms.

D

And the amount of spaces on site.

C

And after if I could offer one comment about the stipulation.

C

It's true, as it's been operating, that it could um based on how it's been operating qualify as an in.

C

But we understood and the applicant was very transparent about the fact that the.

C

Owner did occupy prior to that, so we went ahead and made a call that this was a bed and breakfast.

C

Even though there was not a record of approval that this was a non-conforming use in this.

C

Actually, it's a use that was has a long-term use of the site so to exercise a little bit of extra.

C

Caution, we went ahead and asked that they go through the special exception process to which.

C

They have um agreed to and are going through that process now to make sure that there is additional.

C

Notification of surrounding property owners- and this is going through that additional process, so I.

C

Just wanted to offer that clarification that there could have been an argument that was an innocent.

C

And now and may or may not have a caretaker unit in it, but we said well, it looks more like a bed.

C

And breakfast does so we're gonna require that you go through this extra process and they were.

C

Very transparent about it from the beginning: okay, we have a motion, a second any other discussion.

A

Ready for roll call.

E

Oops sorry bunny board member dirianzo hi funny board member hewitt. Yes, signing board.

E

Member almeida, yes, county board member clark, yes plenty more member connard, yes, chair chairman.

A

Yes, planning board member moreau. Yes, honey board, member harris; yes, plenty board. Member mohanna, yes,.

A

And you can ask mr simonas and remember simonas, yes,.

A

Thank you very much.

A

I have city council referrals next on the agenda. Exactly we have another post comment: 4 45, marcy,.

A

I'm sorry 445 marcy is requested. I jumped over one sorry about that. We have a request.

A

To postpone the request of james and gail sanders as owners for property at 445 marcy street, which.

A

Will be requesting preliminary final subdivision approval some divide, one lot of 1447 square feet.

A

This is at uh map 101 lot. Three. They have a request to postpone.

A

Motion to that effect, so second, I'm asking for second. Second, any discussion.

A

Ready for roll call planning board member dbrianzo. Yes, anybody remember hewitt, yes,.

E

20 board, member almeida. Yes, I board member clark. Yes, I remember conrad, yes,.

E

I mean chair gentlemen, yes, honey board member moreau. Yes,.

E

County board member harris, yes, planning board member mohanna. Yes, I'm planning to remember simonas, yes,.

A

Matter is postponed until next week we have the big night. Now we have city council referrals.

A

First is the public hearing on the zoning amendments. We have a request to continue.

A

And postpone the public hearing until next week june 23rd. We need a motion and a second for that.

F

Mr chairman, I'll make a motion that we vote to pop us upon consideration of this item until.

F

June 23 2022 planning board meeting I'll. Second that in the discussion.

A

Ready for roll call county board member dirianzo, yes, claire boyfriend, hewitt, yes,.

E

Playing board member almeida, yes, planner clark, yes, honey board, member color.

E

Yes, chair chairman: yes, please remember roe, yes, play board member harris. Yes,.

E

Planning board member mohanna. Yes, I don't remember simonas. Yes, thank you.

A

Now have a uh considering report back to the council on how to improve the work.

A

Of the demolition review committee have members reviewed this report.

A

Open it up for discussion.

J

I'll talk, okay, you're, hiding you're, hiding behind the connection. I'm sticking my arm out.

L

You were looking the other way she was pretty active, but quiet, [, __, ],.

D

Well, I'm trying not to be obnoxious like I usually am. um I will speak about this because it I was the.

D

Chair of the demolition review committee for every hearing that it's had since its.

D

Implementation back in was it march 2021. I went back and re-listened to the meeting and.

D

To listen to all of the things that we talked about and and just to give you guys some sort of.

D

Idea, because a lot of you are very new this all this entire ordinance came about because we had.

D

A bunch of neighbors that were complaining and upset due to a house being torn down.

D

At a zoning board of adjustment meeting, but that really wasn't their purview, it was outside the htc.

D

So we had no mechanism for people to get public notices and to be heard um for, for that reason, was.

D

That the creek neighborhood- yes, that's exactly the one you're thinking about so this entire ordinance.

D

Was then created around that? I will be up front unless something has changed in the last few years.

D

And attorney sullivan can correct me if I'm wrong, but there is really no new hampshire legislative.

D

Backing or support for us creating this, so the honest answer is: if someone was to challenge.

D

Something that we did under this they'd most likely win, but so far it has saved one property.

D

And I feel like that has made it somewhat worthwhile and that would be the kerry cottage.

D

We spent a lot of time talking about the cary cottage when people were going to tear it down.

D

And we were able to have some pretty long, lengthy hearings and have a bunch of people be aware of.

D

What was going on and they stepped up and now it's a beautiful facility that nonprofits work.

D

Out of so I do feel like that was a win um so far nobody's challenged it and that's mostly because.

D

The end result of the demolition review committee: is you listen to people, you beg and plead and ask.

D

Very nicely that people might, you know at least save some of the historic things about a building.

D

But we can't stop them from demolishing it. We can make some requests and we can certainly delay them.

D

Right right now, it's up to 90 days that we can delay them from actually demolishing it. um You.

D

Know there's some on the on the on the previous board that has been formed that wanted to get that.

D

Up to 180 days, you know I'm kind of in the middle about it. I was probably one of the few that was.

D

Not a preservationist as the person on the board, which is probably made me the mediator not really.

D

The chair, um so, in the end the ordinance probably could really use some cleaning up, because what.

D

Brought about us needing some changes was that whether or not something is a partial demolition.

D

So someone had come and requested a demolition if you're only doing a portion of a building.

D

They, you know, don't necessarily meet the criteria to have to get noticed for because what happens in.

D

The demolition review ordinances we provide notice to say this is going to happen in so much time and.

D

If anyone comes forward and says no, I object, they don't even have to give a reason. They just object.

D

We have a hearing, that's when the demolition review committee is actually gathered.

D

To have a hearing to hear out what the complaint is about um and then the delays sort of begin so.

D

Under that, we thought this person had a demolition permit to tear down part of.

D

It but then got into it before we knew it. There was literally, like you know, four boards sticking.

D

Up out of the ground, it was there, wasn't anything really there right. It was all gone.

D

um At which point there was nothing for us to save, and that was the discussion of that march meeting.

D

Was should these people be punished? How should we and what, how do we change the ordinance to.

D

Try to make sure partial demolition doesn't become full demolition without any notice to the public.

D

Is that enough background good yeah get an idea as to where all this came from now.

A

That was very helpful. um Okay, good I'm going to be. You want to speak about this.

C

Yes, this uh the memo before you was prepared by um principal planner, nick cracknell, myself and.

C

Trevor uh mccourt, who is uh our staff attorney um trevor uh and also shanti wolf? Who is our.

C

Building official, what you have before you is the april 12 2021, a demolition review committee.

C

Proposed revisions that they recommended and that were referred out to the planning board.

C

Historic district commission for review and a recommendation. We reviewed those and had.

C

Some discussion, you can see the staff analysis that we uh put together to try some things for.

C

Consideration this includes because the htc is charged with historic preservation, that is their.

C

Purview um uh within the historic district, the role of the drc should be more narrowly defined as.

C

Providing adequate notification opportunities for discussion prior to demolition of older buildings.

C

Outside the district, there is a mechanism to designate historic resources outside the historic.

C

District, if that is the course, the city would like to take it's the right tool for the right job is.

C

The historic district commission to preserve preserve historic resources, but given the narrow.

C

And also the lack of statutory support, we took a look at that um state law does not empower local.

C

Jurisdictions to prohibit demolition, as previously stated by council member moreau demolition outside.

C

The historic district, however notice and delays are typical in most jurisdictions. The lack of.

C

Direct statutory authority does invite challenges to a very broad expansion of the duties and powers.

C

Of the drc to stay demolitions, um the intent of the recommendations above because a couple.

C

Staff members were involved in those discussions with the demolition review committee was not was.

C

To set the thresholds higher for demolitions to say these types of demolitions are going.

C

To trigger our review a little bit higher, but also to extend the length for public discussion.

C

So that um id so that during that period, folks can either get a documentary evidence of the historic.

C

Or of the resource that may have personal or some other kind of value to folks, potentially.

C

Extend the discussion with the developer, the person who's planning to demolish it, as was.

C

Mentioned with kerry cottage that, if you can keep talking, maybe you can get them to go a.

C

Different way come up with some solutions and then thirdly, it could invite give an opportunity for.

C

Somebody who's interested to acquire it for the purpose of restoration or um some.

C

Other purpose, so that was uh to extend that period, allows those things to run their course.

C

The staff recommendation would be that all the aforementioned uh recommendations should be.

C

I think referred back to the city council, but that there should be a detailed legal.

C

Analysis, so that we make sure that any of the amendments are, in conformance with state law.

C

Case law and best practices the the idea of incorporating to the building code, our building.

C

Officials said that's going to be problematic and I it was a very detailed discussion, but I.

C

Think we'd want to just understand that fully but definitely uh send those forward um at and then.

C

As we mentioned at minimum, they should be migrated to the building code, if possible, um after lengthy.

C

Discussion among staff we uh and given the fact there is not a lot of statutory support or any.

C

um Rather than extending the state of demolition to 180 days, we were thought about what the intent.

C

Was as to give opportunity for discussion and that we think it's advisable to begin the 90-day.

C

Demolition delay period from the date of the public hearing um and that that not from the.

C

Date of submittal, which is doesn't give enough time to have a conversation with the developer.

C

To potentially uh secure acquisition, if somebody's looking to acquire or to get documentary.

C

Evidences, which is what sometimes happens with properties that are listed on the national trust.

C

When they're slotted for demolition, then there's an opportunity for someone to go in at least.

C

Record what was there and that's the minimum, but it is something that is.

C

um Even applies to properties that are listed on the national trust for historic preservation, so.

C

And as I mentioned, there is a you know, an avenue forward. If we wanted to. I, I.

C

Haven't looked at state law, I don't know if council more knows it, but.

C

uh How it is in new hampshire, but in other states, if you would like to add protections to historic.

C

Resources, you might conduct a community-wide survey, identify those resources and through.

C

A local ordinance designate them as historic, so there's other ways. It's the right tool for that.

C

Job if we choose to but anyway, these are the staff recommendations, send it forward with that. I think.

C

The only real stipulation we have in there is to make sure that it's vetted against uh detailed.

C

Legal analysis and then also maybe the 180s, might be a little overreaching. We recommended.

C

To uh begin the 90-day delay period from the time of public hearing, so just for clarification.

A

The request of this board would be to send it to the legal department for final review.

A

And then on to council, assuming it passes with that, uh I think that the way I understood it was.

C

That send it to council and say we think that the all these should be done. If possible, we should go.

C

Ahead and do that, um you know we had that just that one change the staff recommended, but that.

C

Send the recommendation to council, for um you know, directing staff to uh bring them back the changes.

C

So I think yeah. Okay, thanks for clarification, councilman, I like the idea of not starting the.

D

90 days until the first hearing, because one of our issues we always had was.

D

We don't know until somebody I mean I'm notified, usually within you know a day or two that an.

D

Application would come in, but then we still have to find a time that every single one of us.

D

Can get together and sometimes that's three weeks away and so you've lost three weeks.

D

Before the conversation even starts before you can so I I do agree that that then there's less.

D

Pressure on us to find a date that this room's free, you can actually have a hearing which I've.

D

Now learned as a counselor, it's really tough to find time when there's no meetings going on.

D

So um yeah, having not you know it technically, it's delaying the project, but at the same.

D

Time you start the 90 days once the conversation starts is a really good solution versus 180 days.

G

Just greg, I also like when this clock starts, that was smart. I'm looking at the one thing here that.

G

Seems to contradict, though, because if you go to the staff analysis number four, the last sentence.

G

That would trigger review but provide a longer period. That seems to kind of go in the face of.

G

Number three under recommendations which says it's really still is 90.

C

So it's it's 90 from the public hearing and that's right. I get that absolutely, but.

G

The intent of the formation recommendation was set a threshold higher that would trigger review.

G

But provide a longer period. It technically is a longer period because trust me, the description.

C

It's the first part, it's worded a little awkward and awkward, and I and I I I think when we wrote it.

C

We were all in the middle of the conversation and- and I remember trevor specifically.

C

Our um attorney mccourt specifically saying the whole point was not to grab more buildings that.

C

Would be considered as part of this, the point was to essentially um create the longer waiting period.

C

I'm not sure that any of these uh actually, oh you know what I apologize. The first bullet increased.

C

The current 50-year threshold to 75 years- that is the one that sets the threshold higher so.

C

Right now, the historic period is typically considered anything 50 years or older. That is.

C

You know what the national uh trust usually says and that's what the secretary of interior says.

A

It's to push that to 75 years, so they're setting that threshold higher for what's grabbed.

C

But delaying the period right right, I'm so that's kind of worded awkwardly. I read it.

C

In my office a few minutes ago, I was like wait. What does that mean.

C

I did think about it. The intention is to have less houses that might get caught up in it right all.

G

Right um there was one of it was. I thought I read something about penalties and things like that and.

G

And it was to what councilman was talking about. You know he ended up with one stick left, but look.

G

At I mean you guys looked at it from that point of view, but from a construction point of view I mean.

G

I was part of a renovation of a historic 1700s whaling house on the water in edgarstown harbor.

G

And we preserved it right down to the old windows, but when he got into it,.

G

It would have fallen down on its own right and an inordinate amount of money was spent, and I I.

G

I don't think what happened was healthy because of the long arm of the law over the process.

G

So I think you don't know what you're going to get into until you get into it.

D

Yeah, just for the record, our end result on that house was that they had already.

D

Had their permit revoked from them and so okay, so so they had to reapply all again and that's.

D

Typically, what would happen so we're like well, that kind of seems like a penalty all into itself.

D

Your per building permit was revoked and therefore you had to reapply for a new one. Okay, so we didn't.

D

Apply any more penalty other than what was already going to happen. Gotcha, okay, we didn't.

D

Wave any fees either all of my highlighting was for naught because it sounds better than that.

G

Thank you andrew. You had your hand up yeah. I think it's since been answered.

F

But kind of to what greg had mentioned just the efficiency of older housing, stock and older.

F

Buildings which we have a lot of in portsmouth, so it's a balancing act of of really maintaining.

F

Those and I think the 75 years helps outside of the hcc, but also my forethought would be to say.

F

We want to improve the sustainability or building effort of newer homes.

F

So if this developer applicant has a stated reasons like oh, we are implementing x, y and z of.

F

Sustainable resources, renewable energy et cetera, that would be an incentive. I think there was a.

F

Word of incentivizing that um so I don't know if that's something you write in or if it's just.

F

That's the overall mission of it to improve the efficiency of housing stock.

C

I'm trying to understand the recommendation: are you saying that if they are proposing um upgrading.

C

The historic structure to make it more energy efficient that that should be a consideration.

C

Or that, if they're proposing to demolish with the purpose of erecting a new structure, that is more.

C

Energy, efficient and more sustainable uh building development that that should allow keeping in mind.

C

That there's nothing within this ordinance that can prevent the demolition there's nothing. They.

C

Do not have the authority to prevent any or to prohibit, they can hold off, but they cannot.

C

Prohibit a demolition, so the incen yeah, if that helps yeah. No, that does- and I can add to what.

G

He exactly where he was going with that and I've showed you right out your office window, a house.

G

That I did on the water right across the pond. The thing about it was: we chose to keep it because of.

G

Its location, because that had more value and the configuration we did with it, was really.

G

Unique and turned out amazing: it just sold for a million too, but some of the things you can't do.

G

You can't insulate to state or city standards in an old house, because the structure isn't there.

G

So you end up having to spray foam and having to make a deal with the building inspector for all.

G

The stuff that doesn't meet code and that's when you start talking about stairways that aren't the.

G

Right pitch, if I would have made that stairway the right pitch, it would end up in a neighbor's yard.

G

It's just not possible, so you go down a path of you can't save this thing because it's not a.

G

Viable building that's tricky as heck to work. Your way through, I like the fact that it really doesn't.

G

Have any teeth, it's more of an incentive to take a hard look at this and do the best you can.

G

And for that reason alone I don't like I I like that you didn't go to 180 days, because that's a.

G

Financial burden on whoever the heck is involved, so the 90 is still good.

B

um I remember this discussion was had uh years ago to form this language in the zoning ordinance and.

B

You mentioned the phrase, doesn't have any teeth, it's what frustrated me with it.

B

Years ago, and it seemed like a, it seemed like an unnecessary.

B

Pain in the neck really for for people who were trying to do the right thing.

B

And um that has always been my concern about the the demolition committee and um I I would I'm glad.

B

That we spoke a little bit longer about the 180 days, um because that seems very excessive to me.

B

To delay a project that, but I think, there's a possibility of some some very um admirable.

B

Products getting caught and caught into this delay unintentionally, but I do see that there is.

B

Language and there's some there's some exemptions that um I hadn't hadn't, seen until just now. So.

B

The third um exemption down says minor demolition projects, as determined by the code official.

B

I I can, I can imagine that that might be an area where um and a butter or a member of the.

B

Or a resident or any member of the public, really um anyone can can challenge that decision. uh If.

B

There's an outbuilding or a garden feature that is historic, that someone feels is contributing.

B

um But that's just the nature of of this this um language. It is not in a heritage district. It is.

B

Not these properties are not in the historic district, so we are really treading on thin ice.

B

As far as enforceability of it goes, if someone gets, if someone shows us teeth was honest, so.

B

Yeah, but I I understand that, we've that that this process has saved some.

B

Very magnificent buildings, and for that alone it makes it it makes it worth it. So.

B

Thank you. I did see your hand this time yeah. I just want to add that, um as I ever hear, everyone.

D

Talking it reminded me of the other point that I had a bit of frustration with this committee.

D

Because it does have three preservationists on on it um is that they really they read into this.

D

Ordinance- and I don't but others do, that they also the neighbors or everyone has a say in what.

D

The future building might look like and that I think we tried on a very thin line, and I just want.

D

To make sure that we don't put anything in the language that would make anyone think that, because.

D

There's already enough people who have that say, and that was the part of the one that got.

D

Demolished without permission so to speak and I kept fighting, I was like no. The building's gone.

D

There's nothing to preserve and we're all about, preserving something old. We shouldn't.

D

We don't have a right to tell people what their house can look like when they're, not in the htc.

D

And I think we have to be very careful that this this committee in this ordinance that wasn't its.

D

Purpose, it was about the demolishing of something historic, not what gets built in its place.

F

That was where I wanted to go that that was. I fought that on that committee, with several people.

D

We didn't see the previous, but this looks fine. I have a similar question to mr almeidas. I'm curious.

A

If we have no authority to do anything, why can we, how is how can the city delay an application.

D

How do we delay it? How where's the authority to delay it.

D

Well, we don't have any, but we make people follow the wardens I mean they could ignore it and.

D

Oh so we suggest 90, but if you oh, no it's up to the committee can can do 90. yeah by ordinance.

D

If they're, following the ordinance and they're making themselves subject to it until somebody.

D

Takes us to court, we have a right to tell them 90.. So if they get a quick court hearing, 90 days goes.

G

Out the window right, okay, so that's why I think putting it to 180 would be challenged right away.

D

They haven't challenged 90, and you know, I think what you're saying is that this at this point.

C

It's valid has not been challenged correct and it's not inconsistent with what we see in some.

C

Other jurisdictions there's it's a very common thing to have, but it has not been challenged.

G

At least that's a good benchmark, we're not like blazing trail here and making stuff up kind of.

D

Feels that way, sometimes, I think somewhat is there. Is there a process to follow the inventory that.

A

You mentioned to maybe create more of a I mean it does. It does seem like it's now. Let me back.

A

Up, I'm all for preservation very much, and history is very much very important part of this city.

A

But I also like to see rules that make sense, and you know, there's authority for those rules.

A

If there's no authority for this rule, I might have a problem with it. So is there a way to.

A

Give it authority more authority? Are you talking about the recommendations.

C

That we're thinking about or are you talking about, the existing ordinance or just the whole.

C

Concept of what we're doing with them, because I guess it goes right to the heart of the existing.

A

Ordinance I mean if, if the city has no authority to do anything, how can you then require an.

A

Application that can impose a delay. I certainly invite bob to talk about this. A little bit.

C

Why sullivan might have how we can expand, how we can expand? What we, what might be a challengeable.

C

Ordinance, so if bob would like to address that, he's probably said it to me before, but.

D

He says a lot of things. Sorry to make you come down from the back, it's all good, isn't it.

K

The authority of the question that the planning board has been discussing.

K

Is a serious question, a genuine issue? It has been raised already at the city council level.

K

By councillor andrew bagley, who has said that at such time as anything should come back to the city.

K

Council, following this he's requesting a statement concerning authority from the legal department.

K

The uh chairman has stated rather bluntly that if there is no authority, how can we.

K

Do anything, and of course, if there is no authority, we couldn't do anything.

K

We have not stated, however, at this point uh in that blunt of fashion, that there is no authority.

K

We have stated there is a question about authority and I will have to be examined and.

K

To some degree, whether sufficient authority exists to support what the city might want to do.

K

Depends on what the city might want to do so uh we're in a little bit of a chicken egg.

K

Situation at the moment and my advice would be to proceed in order to make your recommendations.

K

To proceed in the direction which you feel you would want to see, the city go and.

K

And when it gets to the city council level, in accordance with the request of council bagley,.

K

We will provide the most complete statement of authority that we can at that time and if we.

K

Conclude at that time that there is no authority, we will conclude there can be no ordinance.

A

Thank you interesting, mr chairman. Yes of course, yes, uh tony sullivan.

H

I'd like to utilize your extensive history in the city, that's what it's going to be from here on out.

H

I see I've been here quite a bit of time too, and I seem to recall portions used to have two historic.

H

Districts, an a and a b is that true? Yes, that's true and b, I remember had different standards.

H

But b covered most the creek neighborhood and a lot good part of the west end. Now, if, if this.

H

Board is interested in increasing authority. Would that option help it if they wanted to.

H

Reactivate the historic b district, well, first off, let me say believe in general, your recollection is.

K

Correct that's the way it was. I can't provide a lot of detail just from memory here now.

K

I think that's the way it's going to be from here on out too, and I don't recall, but.

K

I think the answer is yes, that it might be that in searching for legal authority to take the action.

K

You want to do the lesser the action you want to do more likely, there's going to be some authority.

K

So if you had decreasing gradients of action that you could take to different locations, then that I.

K

Think that does lead to the possibility of a more of a possibility of enough authority being located.

K

Great, thank you so if, if if this board passes this recommendation on to council.

A

It's not an endorsement per se by the board. It's a request that your department and your successors.

A

Take a look at this a hard look at this and make a recommendation a council as you as you.

A

Explained is that correct the with regard to the policy determinations within the recommendations.

K

The legal department would have little, if anything, to say about those those would be your policy.

K

Recommendations with regard to the authority questions, the council is expecting a report.

A

Any other questions for attorney sullivan. Thank you very much. Bob.

A

What's the pleasure of the board.

A

Folks understand what we've been asked to do. Did I confuse things too much nope.

D

I make a motion that we vote to recommend the city council consider implementing the.

D

Recommendations of the drc subject to a detailed legal analysis to ensure that the recommendations.

D

Are, in conformance with state law, case law and best practices with following change that rather.

D

Than extending the stay of demolition to 180 days, it would be advisable to commence the.

D

90-Day demolition delay period from the date of the public hearing required under section 14.205.

D

Additionally, expand notification procedures to abutters would serve the purpose of broadening.

D

Public awareness implementing demolition and it would provide opportunity to affect.

D

Community members to gain photographic records, influence the property owners and consider the.

D

Courses of action and consider alternative demolition. In addition to add that the.

D

Time, uh the age of the structures that are subject to the ordinance be increased to 75 years.

A

Do we have a second second.

A

Would you like to discuss your motion counselor, I don't know miss gum is.

L

Getting apple notifications of some sort, I don't have it, I don't have.

C

Maybe I'll check my phone just in case I don't have apple either well could be another device.

L

I'm just suggesting yeah did you wish to explain? I got to say um sure I I thought we just had a.

D

Lot of discussion on it, but we didn't just give you the opportunity yeah. No, I I mean I think.

D

That these are the best ways. I like the full legal analysis, and I think that these adjustments to the.

D

Existing ordinance and then at city council level, we can have a public hearing and we can really.

D

Get the public's input: this is a city that really likes to have input in everything.

D

And therefore, this ordinance has been a way to give them input and really we haven't had.

D

A whole lot of pushback on it I mean we did lose the st patrick's school. That was one of the ones.

D

That was attempted to be saved. It's now a parking lot, but there was trust me on that side. It just.

D

I love to say how it just depended on what side of the building you lived on, because if you.

D

Lived on the back side of the building, you were all for it being gone. If you lived on the front.

D

Side of the building you were all for it being saved, so um everyone has a different opinion.

B

Thank you yes, just to speak to it, just a tiny little bit more. um The I think the language is is.

B

Has been tightened up, I think it's very good. I think my concern.

B

All along has had always been that someone used this as a vehicle just to fight a project.

B

um And not and not, really consider the language. It was just a vehicle that.

B

Potentially someone and doesn't it wouldn't even have to be in a butter again, it could be anyone.

E

Wouldn't even have to be a resident could use this as a vehicle to fight a project.

B

And delay a project in, um but this this language improves it significantly. I think anything else.

A

I guess we need a roll call vote.

E

Yes, planning board dirianzo, yes, county board member hewitt. Yes, penny board member almeda. Yes,.

E

Sending board member clark yes, planning board member conart, yes, chair chairman, yes,.

E

Honorable member moreau, yes plain board member harris, yes, planning board member mohanna. Yes,.

E

A

There's been a doc emotion's been approved to send it on to council as.

A

As in the motion, we have a another city council request for a right-of-way easement.

A

To incorporate a section of proposed roadway in the city's existing sagamore grove right away.

A

um Do you want to explain this, so this was provided again by um attorney trevor mccourt.

C

I think the memo uh lays out the conditions for this uh amended easement on january 27th.

C

Portsmouth planning board granted site plan approval to demo demolish an existing mix.

C

You structure and conduct construct a six-unit residential structure, totaling 21 66 square feet.

C

uh Subsequent to the approval city uh staff identified that the existing.

C

Sagamore grove right away, as articulated in easement d, does not include approximately 124.

C

Square feet of new proposed roadway approved on january 27th, so the enclosed, easement deed would.

C

Incorporate this section of proposed wood roadway into the city's existing sagamore grove right away.

C

And then the drawing that is provided in your memo shows the depicts the area to be added.

C

And the consideration for the planning boards review, the draft easement make a.

C

Recommendation city council, all easements that are not approved as part of a plan, need to come before.

C

The planning board for recommendation, so this is a an amended easement that needs to come before you.

C

um To go and to refer back to city council, the the new eastman accounts for the post-construction.

C

Location of sagamore grove and establishes the new boundaries of the right-of-way adopts.

C

This document will allow for the continued public access and city maintenance of the road. Thank you.

A

We have a motion. I make a motion planning board, recommend that the city council accept.

G

A right-of-way right-of-way easement, which should incorporate a section of.

G

Proposed roadway into the city's existing sagamore grove right away. Second, second:.

G

Sure looks like the right thing to do. Yes, mr.

H

Discussion, I just want to clarify, in my mind, what's going on here that.

H

The applicant of the owner of the condos is giving up some of its property to portsmouth.

H

Because the road's already on their property, it appears that way: they're extending the easement.

D

Because the easement area didn't go far enough to where the road went so sagamore grove pavement.

H

Is on the condo's property and we're just cleaning this up, so that our town road is not on.

H

The private property any longer correct. Well, it's on private property, but we have proper easements.

H

Right so right, it's still on private property, but we have an easement to use it. Okay, that's.

G

It actually benefits the city more, it does it's taking liability away from the city, because.

G

City road is on private land. Yep, that's clear to me now any other discussion ready for roll call.

E

Kind of board member dirianzo: yes, plenty board: member hewitt! Yes, when we remember I'll meet up.

F

Yes, kind of remember clark, yes, plenty board. Member connard, yes chair, gentlemen, yes and remember.

E

Moreau, yes harris. Yes, I remember mohanna, yes, plain board member simonas. Yes, thank you. Motion carries.

A

We have a similar request to accept the right-of-way easement on albany street requested.

A

By the planning board in january, 27 2022 as a part of the project located at 89 brewery lane.

D

Make a motion boat to recommend the city council accept a right-of-way easement located at albany.

D

Street requested by the planning board on january 27 2022 as part of the project located at 89 for.

D

Really, second, a new discussion, just a question of the playing department in the verbiage. It.

G

Talked about a desire to have it, go all the way down brewery lane, and this seems to go halfway.

D

They already have an easement for the rest. Okay, so this completes it. Yes, thank you. Yes,.

G

That wasn't clear. Thank you. It was really part of a vote that when it was added- and then we didn't.

C

Have the easily depicted so this is bringing the easement the depiction to the planning board.

C

To satisfy the planning board, stipulation it's a cleanup. Okay, it's a cleanup they're, both cleanups.

C

To a certain degree, okay again, just another so prior to this action, albany was a private street.

H

Okay, all right chevrolet technically, is a private street too. For the most part.

G

Because of that development right yep, are you ready for a vote on this.

A

Roll call vote depending board member derianzo. Yes, can I remember hewitt? Yes,.

E

Member member almeida, yes, planning board member clark, yes planner member connard, yes,.

E

Chair chairman, yes, plan. Remember yes, plan to remember harris! Yes, planetable, remember mohanna,.

E

Yes, playboard members, simonas, yes, motion carries uh the next item. I just requested a placeholder.

A

You'll see this on meetings going forward just in case there's something that's come across.

A

Across my desk, of course, with meeting with staff and other things, and also.

A

Several of you take the opportunity to contact me between meetings and that's fine.

A

Some people don't want to speak up. Sometimes I don't think.

A

Too many members here don't want to speak up, but it does happen for me on occasion there has been.

A

Discussions about other zoning amendments that I've heard from several members that.

A

Some of you wish to talk about that aren't currently on the land use committee's short-term.

A

Radar so to speak, staff is fully committed and engaged and there's very little staff.

A

Support for anything beyond that, but we can still talk about those things. The planning.

A

Board has the authority to talk about any zoning amendment and that sort of thing.

A

I've had conversations with the city attorney about the planning board rules. I think there's.

A

Some cleanup that should be done with the planning board's rules, pretty simple stuff.

A

Currently, the rules require things like, for example, adhering to robert's rules, which we.

A

All think we know what they are, but there's actually several versions of them and they can.

A

Get rather onerous at times. I don't know that we need the full. I mean it's literally a book. This.

A

Thick that I have sitting under my desk so little things like that, um the wetlands buffer. I know.

A

We're going to have a conversation with attorney buckley, I'm not the only one that has it um about.

C

That you remind the planning board also of the date for that, because it is coming up at 6, 29.

A

So they were just reminding me to remind everybody else that we have a meeting with.

A

Tony buckley on the 29th and he's bringing a woman and one of his colleagues who, I believe.

A

Serves with him and the town they live in to talk about the wetlands buffer and.

A

Just how that works in a statewide level, there's been conversation at this board level about.

A

Interpretation of that, under our own ordinance, does there need to be some.

A

Modification to that, so I'm just throwing out some things that we can talk about if anybody.

A

Wants to talk about any of that tonight, you can do that now, but again, there's going to be.

A

A placeholder here so that I can raise some of these things also one other thing I do recall.

A

The capital improvement program came up with something that maybe we wanted to talk about.

A

Occasionally, as we're required to on a regular basis, but perhaps a couple times a year, maybe.

A

We should touch touch base with it, so that was pretty much all I had if anybody wants to jump on.

A

Any of that, or not so you're gonna put this other business on every. I think it's a good idea is my.

A

Intention is to have it every meeting and it may be, it may be a 30 second conversation. It may be.

A

Longer than that, depending on the pleasure of the board or the hour and the hour, I'm sensitive to.

A

That I am, I am so I don't know if anybody wants to talk about anything any of these tonight.

A

Or just let you know that I'll be raising them and now there's a place for it. Yeah, yes, are you.

L

Asking us, if there's other things that we wanted or are those things. This is the opportunity if you.

A

Want to bring something up now, but you don't have to I just want to let you know that I am.

A

Keeping track or trying to keep track of things that have come up and uh councilmember has her.

A

Hand up I'll just give a quick update since we're all here and it's not midnight um the land use.

D

Committee has just finished up, I believe today or yesterday yesterday, with their focus groups.

D

For um their questions regarding adus, I know at least the session I participated in, went very.

D

Well, I know we have two other members here who participated in some sessions and we're also. We.

D

Actually have an intern now who's helping to start to work to do because we're going out and sending.

D

All of our neighborhood questions to all of the abutters to every project that's been out which.

D

Is obviously a list of like hundreds of people, so we're going to try to gather some more written.

D

Data as well to be able to bring back to the land use committee and then submit to city council and.

D

To this board to see the feedback that we got in the red line, changes that we plan on making.

D

So hopefully that will be back in the next month or so depending on how it goes. But I just want.

D

To give you an update that we are working on all that there you go, that's it! Thank you. I I don't.

H

Think it's any surprise that my number one issue right now with the zoning is the parking racks.

H

I think that affects us, the most directly on a day-to-day or a case may be a month. You.

H

Know every meeting we potentially are going to have a project. That's going to ask for.

H

Off street parking- and I think, based on the experience of west end yards, we need to.

H

Recognize that and take action to make sure that that doesn't happen again.

A

Well, the topic of parking uh just to jump in on this. That is one of the things I get paid to do.

A

On a regular basis, I'm a fellow of the ite and I've written some recommended practices. I would be.

A

Happy to go through that, if the board wanted some background in some of that information like how we.

A

Had tonight we had the ite trip generation parking generation data presented, I'm not sure how many of.

A

You know what that actually is and how, how and how that data is best used and what its limitations.

A

Are and what its benefits are. I could explain that if you're interested to hear that sort of thing.

A

And that does lead into the parking discussion and then the regulatory aspect of it.

A

And how things are different in the downtown versus outside of downtown, or should be so.

A

I think peter you had your hand up, I mean I, I think it's I share and feel and have experienced a.

L

An ongoing concern from neighborhoods that border the downtown area of parking.

L

um Encroaching into neighborhoods um by.

L

Workers that come in- maybe it's just it hasn't. It has had an impact on neighborhoods, where residents.

L

Can't get parking in their own neighborhoods because of others pushing in to use the parking.

L

And um I do feel as we look to take on things, that increase density, that.

L

You can't just keep adding housing without changing parking um to go along with it, and it's.

L

A big concern- and it I hear a lot from residents, not in my neighborhood but from.

L

Other neighborhoods and have seen it over the last 10 or so years and it's a concern and I think it's.

L

Something we need to look at and proactively take action on if we can.

A

Yes, I'll speak from a person who actually lives in the um uh neighborhood parking perm.

D

Part npp neighborhood parking permit program. There's too many peas in that set.

D

No, I live in islington creek bricks across the pond from me, um so we had I've been in that.

D

Neighborhood for since 2002 so 20 years and we've always had a huge parking issue and last august we.

D

Implemented the first pilot program for resident parking and I think it's worked brilliantly.

D

It's not been without its faults. It's currently been extended to labor day weekend. I have some.

D

Suggestions of some possible changes we could do to it, but I think if people really pay attention.

D

I think that could actually work in a lot of our neighborhoods, because what they're trying to do.

D

Is to get free parking um and if you know one of the things I would like to recommend to parking.

D

Traffic safety- I haven't had a chance to do it yet, but it's on my radar to do is to recommend that.

D

We actually do uh right now, it's two free hours for anyone or you have a parking permit. What, if.

D

Everyone that came to the neighborhood had to pay unless you had a parking permit, and then people.

D

Who want free parking and it would be just like the downtown with the app the longer you stay. The.

D

More you pay it's going to be a disincentive for them. They'd rather go park at the parking garage.

D

And pay and honestly, the workers have really the increase that the boundary garage has been.

D

Greatly by worker the working program for, however many days a week, they can park 10 hours a day for.

D

Three dollars and that parking program has really helped alleviate some of the downtown workers.

D

Searching for free parking in the neighborhood, so I think there's some programs that we're.

D

Working on that are starting to alleviate some of that problem, um but unfortunately it's only.

D

In our one neighborhood, because we were the only ones that fought for it for a very long time and.

D

I would love to expand it to other neighborhoods. We tried to do it in two neighborhoods, the other.

D

Neighborhood in the south end decided they didn't want to be part of the pilot program, but I think.

D

We need to talk about programs like that, because that helps alleviate for residents that don't.

D

Have I'm, I know a lot of several of my neighbors: don't have off-street parking so it does become an.

D

Issue when you pay the taxes and you live in the neighborhood, you want to park in your streets. So.

D

I am very sensitive to that. I don't know that you know a huge change in our parking regulations.

D

Isn't going to make an instant impact? I agree outside of downtown needs, more parking than.

D

Inside of downtown and you've got to have that mix, and I don't know what that answer is. But I.

D

Believe, there's some parking analysis going on right. Now, that's going to help feed into any.

D

Changes that might need to happen, but I think we need to look at all the options and not just.

D

Our parking regulations so the part there's a parking rfp that is about to be issued if it has.

C

Not already been issued, I I need to follow up with that from the public works department in which k.

C

In as part of that, study, they'll be looking at maximizing utilization and optimizing pricing.

C

Of city parking facilities but they're also doing a scan of the regulations to understand.

C

How we can potentially improve our regulations, they are considering. uh You know, of course,.

C

Optimization of pricing, how you use pricing to drive parking demand as you've just mentioned,.

C

And then how we can effectively use the permitting process programs like you've described, I would say.

C

That it probably will be very informative to take that information that is provided in that they are.

C

Considering things like parking induced demand that the more parking you essentially create.

C

The more auto oriented demand, you're, essentially fueling through your parking and it's something.

C

To consider, if you are the, if you the more parking you create the more you're sort of incentivizing.

C

Auto oriented traffic in your community and you're, basically saying: let's all go to portsmouth, we can.

C

Park right in front of our restaurant out there there instead of saying you know we, you know when.

C

You go to portsmouth you're prepared to walk, so um there is a lot within that report and I've asked.

C

That, as soon as we are getting a little closer and have that scope finalized that they come before.

C

This board and provide a report about what types of deliverables they're hoping to get from that.

C

Their timeline, and potentially even if they're, far enough along in that rp process, who they are.

C

Working what consultant they're going to work with so um they may want to also meet with this board.

C

Or members of the board to get additional feedback as part of that exercise, and I certainly would.

C

Encourage that, because I know we're sitting every day, applying the regulations, there's two sides to.

C

That there's the regulatory side and then there is the optimization of city parking facilities.

C

On street parking all the resource surface parking everything that we have- and I know.

C

In the jurisdiction that I was in before those small tweaks about timing and metering,.

C

Can completely change the picture because people really do respond to those changes in the parking.

C

uh Fee structure, so all of that I think I I I'm hearing you because I've heard this a few times.

C

And we'll continually continue to work with public works and ask at their earliest possible meeting.

C

If they could come talk to us about what is proposed, because I think the board is very eager.

C

To hear what the the um subject matter will be and the deliverables will be for that study, I also am.

C

Because I hear this from you from my planning board very often thank you. That's that's very.

A

Helpful, I think, there's I'm hearing two things and you did touch on this a little bit. Beverly.

A

There's the management issue of the parking that's available, both public and private.

A

But there's also a supply question and that ties directly into the regulations that this board has.

A

So you know, I think it would be fantastic to see the actual data that the public works department.

A

Will be gathering with this uh this report and get that information in front of us, and it may be that.

A

The existing regulatory scheme is fine in certain parts of the city, but maybe it.

A

Needs to be tuned in other parts or maybe we need to make a recommendation to council for.

A

You know some more public parking, I don't know these are options that might might come as a.

A

Result of us talking about it and recognizing it's it is, it is a reality um to say portsmouth.

A

Should be car free next week? I don't think it's realistic, so you had your hand up yeah. I just want.

F

To acknowledge that, I thought what beth mentioned about her neighborhood and surrounding neighbors.

F

Is very articulate and accurate, um I think, to what jim was saying and what he has made it past.

F

What what comments he has made at past meetings about certain projects was also.

F

Very articulate and accurate, for example, the west end yards project, and I want to recognize that.

F

A lot of these parking concerns are pretty much in lockstep, with a lot of portsmouth's.

F

Public initiatives such as master plans and walkability, and all that so multimodal.

F

Transportation, so not the intent is not to kick. This can down the road, but just to acknowledge.

F

That, as portsmouth as a city becomes more comprehensive for walking and bicycling and all of.

F

That these parking regulations and certain zones and projects could be amended or adjusted to what.

F

We have available for those other transportation options. Everything evolves. Thank you.

A

Things of all, but you have to be careful that you you promote that growth if you're.

A

Trying to get growth and I've looked at several cities in the united states, where.

A

You know the bones are good, but some of the management questions weren't dealt with very.

A

Well and things went things went south, you know the economy, didn't it didn't, couldn't support.

A

The businesses couldn't support what was actually desired to be happening and parking is one element.

A

Of that component city of santa monica, which is just going always has been successful and.

A

Is right near los angeles, so it's definitely a car culture but santa monica less so than los angeles.

A

The pedestrian mall there, which is one of the few in the country that actually works.

A

The city owns all the parking garages around it and they had to build a new one about eight.

A

Years ago, because one of the existing garages was like 400 feet too far for people to use.

A

And this is a beachfront community and right just like two blocks off the beach wonderful climate. So.

A

You know the reality in the context. Is it's very much a part of uh how you have to look at.

A

The details and how things have to be addressed so, and that's only accentuated here in new hampshire.

F

Where we don't have santa monica weather yeah three quarters of the year we may soon, but that's.

A

Another conversation, hopefully not ten months of the year well today, today, is a great example of.

B

That, when you're going through downtown, there are so many projects that the city is working.

B

On because it's such a compressed schedule, so we everyone feels it every year. At this time, you're.

B

Turning left and right rows are closed and it's it's it's the way things have to be. Unfortunately,.

B

There's a point in this one work: that's going to happen on the parking garage; it just adds to it. So.

B

Yeah, I I saw your comments and they're well taken because it's going to it's going to be.

A

A painful period in our near future here and a big contributor, I'm sorry yes go ahead, is is.

L

New construction that has occurred in permits that have been allowed to go under what we haven't and.

L

Our requirements, I think, are lower than if you compare them to other cities. So it's it's. It's not.

L

How it's not a could be some a new housing that was built or a new building and those.

L

Aren't supporting themselves- and I think that is enhancing or the demand on streets and thus.

L

Pushing further into neighborhoods and in the south end it's it's! Every morning I go out walking.

L

My dog and I see um workers that come in and they park in the free parking areas, and I and I just.

L

Had to be walking downtown, I you know, walk them into different office buildings and it's it's.

L

Tough enough, if you live in that neighborhood, just to see that, because.

L

All of a sudden there's there's like the lot. All the parking is full on. You know down certain.

L

Streets and that's you know, houses don't have driveways, they have to use a street parking.

L

So I think it's important that.

L

Any new buildings that are going up.

L

Don't fall under that minimum of you know in a conditional use. Permit uh tonight's example was.

L

Very doable, it was, it was, you know, unless all 10 of those guests are are couples that are meeting.

L

And coming by two cars, which is so unlikely, you know it it that worked, um but there's been.

L

Others over the last 10 15 years that have been approved and and um I we need to make sure we can.

L

Sustain that for any new development, so I'm have a high concern and recognize residents do as well.

A

Okay, I took the board probably longer than anybody wanted to with a nice evening out there so.

A

Yeah. Thank you very much. We have a motion to adjourn removed. Second,.

A

uh Do we really need to do a roll call to adjourn? No, you can just call a joint okay.