City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Public Works, 14 Sep 2022

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From YouTube: 9.14.2022 Maplehaven Neighborhood Sidewalks Project Meeting

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9.14.2022 Maplehaven Neighborhood Sidewalks Project Meeting

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People registered david, you might want to give it a second okay.

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uh We are having troublesh that the uh the electronic broadcast.

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In the fire station for the other people that came to the other meetings, you probably remember.

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That so they figured here it's kind of we're used to this system, and we just want to make.

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Sure we had a bunch of people that signed up afterwards. We just want to make sure.

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So good evening, um city staff is here. They also have the assistant mayor doing until here and our.

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State reps: have you seen your last name so as far as staff um director peter rice is over to my left.

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Monitoring the computer system traffic engineer eric eby is in the yellow shirt.

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uh We have our design engineer here. Mark that's older and tyler reese is our young engineer he's.

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Been assisting us with message, boards and notices and all that sort of thing so, and I am dave before.

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The society- I am a coach for the construction and the things that people here at dvw.

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So um we have a brief presentation that we just want to run through kind of what we've been.

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Thinking since the what was our last meeting april so since spring, we've been kind of tossing back.

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And forth, I hope we should approach uh this and we have some suggestions and we're going to lay off.

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You tonight and um and then we'll take feedback after the presentation. Okay, so that being said,.

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Y2 and we'll take uh just we'll take the questions from zoom.

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After we finish the presentation, then we'll take the products. That's the way, we're going.

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To run so, that being said, um we talked a lot last time about when sidewalks are actually.

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Warranted so eric's going to talk about this first slide or two and then I'll take back over.

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Good evening, everyone I'm eric eby the traffic engineer of the city, um so on a street like this.

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uh It's considered the city of portland has a complete street's guidelines and this street.

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Is classified as a neighborhood slow street, so it's our desire to have traffic traveling at.

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Speeds of 20 miles an hour on the street and, uh along with those at target speed, we also have.

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Desirable widths of roadways and facilities for pedestrians and bicycles and on a roadway such.

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As this, it's what we call our preferred treatment is to have a sidewalk. However, based on the volume.

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Of traffic, which this graphic shows and and the speeds that they're operating at uh sidewalk, is.

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Only a potential item preferred it's not a required, and this is a national standard as.

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Well, so what we're seeing is that? Because we have about 200 cars a day on these streets in.

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This neighborhood and uh they're, usually not going too fast, although we can have some concerns with.

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That on suzanne drive and the country traffic- and we are looking to address that issue based on the.

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Volumes and the speeds that we're seeing sidewalks are not required. They are a preferred item, but.

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Not required as far as standards nationally. I just want to make that clear that this is not.

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Something we're doing because we have to have a sidewalk we enabler. This is something that's.

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Being done because this is brought to the city as saying it's a desirable neighborhood and it.

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Is a preferred treatment for it, edward street language? That's where this chart comes from.

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So, based on what we heard of the first two meetings, we had really good consensus on.

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These three boats, which are we really want a safe crossing, so the two neighborhoods can talk to.

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Each other and people can cross and um people were pretty much in favor of a rapid flashing.

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Beacon similar to the one that got installed at the end of the banfield across ocean down there.

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And we have several of them on middle street and there's one on woodbury avenue. So we have a couple.

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Of them in the city- and we have really strong uh consensus- that we want to do that, so how we do.

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That is, we have to do an engineering drawing and we have to apply it to the state for permission.

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To put in a crosswalk they will mark will drop and engineer drawing that shows that there's adequate.

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Site distance that the speeds are are acceptable. You know you can't have it on a 55 mile, an hour.

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Load, for instance, but orchard road doesn't have that problem, so we think there's not going to be.

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No problem we have to apply and get a permit to put a glass in so we're willing to do that and.

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We want to do it. um We also want to incorporate the traffic calming in the areas of concern, so.

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The area is a concerned that we most heard where the cutting traffic that happens from a maybe to.

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um Ocean road that cut through traffic, so we are proposing to put in two speed tables in that zone.

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The first, in which you would be more or less not right by duty, but just beyond it, so that you could.

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See if you're in the parking lot of the restaurant, you can see the speed table, and you know that.

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After you go through at least once you'll know that there are multiple speed tables.

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And those will slow you down and up and it'll actually be quicker to stay on my payroll and.

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Say you're right, so that should should uh we hope and off the problem. So those.

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Will be of the time just like being doing and there'll be two which is like you know,.

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um We also heard that um a connection would be great to the multi-use path on lafayette, road.

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Which we have also committed to work on, so the path on lafayette road is in the cip. The state.

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And vhp, I believe, is working on the plans. The retro placement cement cmn is working on.

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The plans to do a multi-use path, all the way down lafayette road which will finally, after.

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I don't know how many decades and finally create a bicycle and pedestrian in front of a link up.

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And down route, one so that people can get from a to b, but I don't have to take their life. So when.

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That path goes in. We are committing to link up the neighborhood, possibly on the side of platinums.

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With the new sidewalk, so that as in that, because that's in that same area of concern so that people.

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Can get it from the neighborhood out to the path and then go whichever way they want to next slide.

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So what we did here a lot is that there's a total lack of consensus, at least that's the.

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Feedback that we're getting because we're hearing from everybody uh what side of the.

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Street plays the sidewalk and that way either we need sidewalks at all. So those are the two.

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Things that we still need to uh get through it and we um we heard about we talked, we talked about.

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um Possibly putting a speed table or winchester street two, but I guess we heard more or less that.

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People on winchester street weren't interested in that is that you remember that you don't know how.

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That's all and we did a speed study and it was showing that speeds were. You know right about 25.

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Miles an hour so they're in the they're in the speed zone. That really wasn't you wouldn't get.

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Much of that benefit from them, so it's only people in the neighborhood that would have to go over it.

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Speeds aren't crazy. We did have one wild speed that I remember that we picked up well.

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I remember that product, so we did have that one speed, but in general traffic is behaving.

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um There seems to be a lot of support for possibly putting in another capital groomer plan to put.

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Sidewalks or multi-use path down ocean road. So to do that, you have to apply to.

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The capital improvement plan now, as it so happens right now, this period of time.

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Is the time that residents can apply and put their ideas down for the capital improvement.

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Plan those ideas are being accepted. It says on the website, until september 30th, it says october.

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15Th and another slot that we actually form says september 30th, so you have to the end of the month.

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If that's something that you're interested in, we would ask you to at residents, fill out that form.

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That gets submitted to the planning department and then it gives debted through the city staff.

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And the planning board and that's how it gets added if there's enough interest in.

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It it'll get added to a cip project and it'll eventually get funded so projects. That's how.

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That's how projects come to be, so you have to ask for them if there's another two staff or get.

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To know through the planning board, and then it gets if it makes all those steps it gets added.

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To the capital program, so if you're interested in that and what that would do essentially is lame.

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Maple haven with the bike trail, that is in the process of being designed in the.

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Railroad tracks used so from there. You can get wherever because there's no guarantee.

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The state and the government say this: people have been here before the staples in geologic.

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Time, they're like relationships so a lot of times that multi-use map is on one that might that might.

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Take another 10 years to build, the multi-use trail might be built in three or four years.

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So, head your bets right, it's always better to have multiple things going on. So if you're interested.

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In that multi-use path as a project, we ask you to go on to the so we actually have that.

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We actually linked it up earlier and we can actually show you after we aware of.

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That link is to that form, but it's on the city's webpage and it's under plan.

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And there we go so there's uh there's the actual form.

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And you can't quite see it, can you erase the.

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Their city of portsmouth and then it's under the city citizen, request forum right there.

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And it's under the wedding tower: okay,.

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And we're in our little slide.

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Okay, so this slide shows you whether we're proposing the speed tables they're, the green stars.

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um So here and somewhere in here.

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Fancy so um somewhere in here when they come in and then somewhere in.

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Here midstream, we wouldn't put one here that way the neighborhood would come in from ocean road.

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Foreign in order to get the crossing in at ocean road we've talked multiple times.

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They had to have a sidewalk on either side at this point.

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We are proposing to put in a smaller section of the sidewalk right here and a small section of.

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Sidewalk on this leg is suzanne to get you into the neighborhood as a lease of interim.

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Staff in order to have that crossing and that way any traffic coming in from ocean road. The.

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Immediate area by the intersection you're on a sidewalk you're, not in the road foreign.

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What these are, I think everybody knows what the flashy beacons are.

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And then at this point it is our plan to remove the old sidewalk. Now.

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We've talked about a little bit about consensus and how we've had really a.

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Lot of people on either side saying we want our trees, we don't want sidewalks.

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You've heard that we don't want wide sidewalks pave the sidewalks that are there.

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And we've heard put in concrete sidewalks, so we've heard all these things and we hear them.

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More or less easily, so what we're suggesting is is that, as a first phase of this project, we're.

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Gonna, we're gonna, do what we told you we're going to do we're going to apply the state across again.

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Get those two segments, the sidewalk don't put in the speed table, that's our plan and then at this.

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Point we're asking the neighborhood to come to a consensus one way or another, and let us.

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Know really where we go, and would I freeze, am I phrasing that you think I'm freezing that fairly.

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And we're really, we really have is we're just we're just getting feedback all over.

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The place so we're getting emails, one way and emails another way. It's just.

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So we need amusement for them to do that. We plan on advertising bids over the winter it'll.

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Take three or four months to get permission from blt and away, and then we will build this.

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Addictive it's. We will build this mission.

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So I'm going to take questions from the web first, like I said, we'll take all the questions.

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So anybody has their hands up, will allow you to talk, and you can ask your questions. Foreign.

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Hi, can everyone hear me? Yes, we can hear you, john okay, thanks for taking my question, uh I'm at.

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41 suzanne uh pleased to see that the speed table is going to go right outside my house.

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Happy about that um question about the consensus you've asked us to provide you with consensus on.

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uh The sidewalks and what what format to follow who's in charge of of this.

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Are we going to have a neighborhood vote? Do we have a neighborhood captain? How do.

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We, how do we express this to you, make sure that everyone is going to serve.

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So obviously each neighborhood is unique and what we've tried to do.

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In the past is, you know, respect a super majority of 75 percent. um It's slowly.

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Considered consensus, we don't, you know, you're, never going to get 100 percent.

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um So usually the neighborhood takes the lead on this um and it works. You.

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Know through their group, their neighborhood committee does. Does the right work, uh the city.

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Is here to support and to to implement what folks want we are not here to impart and impose our will.

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And vision on you all, if you do not want that, um it's important that you know the residents take.

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Ownership of this, because it is your neighborhood- it's not you, know the city's neighborhood. It is.

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The city's neighborhood, but it's your neighbor, you live in. You need to feel that it's been fair and.

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That um discussion, so you know I know kathleen um part of the neighborhood committee group.

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um And they they provide assistance as well, but typically that's how these things get done.

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So if there was a clear safety issue, if there was a clear reason outside of you, know that I.

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Could point to from an engineering standpoint you know we could make a very simple decision.

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But there is not a clear driver for this, uh as eric pointed out, it's not a um it's, not a state.

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Requirement, it's not a guide guidelines, it's not required uh it's! It's only. It's desired.

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So you know that that's it's not a simple answer, uh john, uh but that is. uh That is really what.

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um What we would expect- okay, thanks really uh not to over complicate. I just want to know.

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Who's in charge here, who do I talk to you, said kathleen or someone? I don't know who that is.

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um I would I would look to your your neighborhood leaders and who you know.

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If you feel that you wanted to step out and start the committee or group to do that, I would.

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You know that would be how it's done no, but is there currently a committee in existence already.

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Or is there, is there already a leader who uh or are you asking a city-wide neighborhood group.

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um I see why neighborhood committee that you could reach out to the um should be online, um that lists.

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uh The neighborhoods um and the city manager's office could give you contact on who to reach.

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Out to um within that, I'm not aware of the point person whether there is one nothing I don't know.

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um There's one right now so they're there. I don't believe there is one right now, but um so if the.

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Neighborhood wants to to create something. That's you know incumbent upon who all to to do that.

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Okay, can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you good evening. I think somebody already.

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Addressed this I'm at 17, and you would yeah at 17 winchester. Thank you. You had mentioned.

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Putting a small section of sidewalk in where the ocean road crossing is proposed to uh suzanne yeah.

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Right now, I'm looking at um the drawing uh sheet c102 and it's showing that the proposed.

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Edge of pavement would shift widening the road by four feet, and I was wondering if you, if you.

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Went with it one if you went with a temporary or not temporary, but a partner is, is outdated.

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Can you see the screen? I can okay, so this is the new drawing and you can you see that the.

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New sidewalk that will proposing is more or less placed on the asphalt. That's there. It's.

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Over the edge just a little bit and there's no winding on the other side of the street,.

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Okay, and is that just a is that a temporary measure, or are you doing so with the I don't.

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Know with a plan to continue that sidewalk or or is that still up in the air as far as that would.

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Be part of the consensus that we were just talking about, but this is the measure that is required so.

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That we can get permission to put in the crosswalk across the state road. Okay, thank you. Awesome.

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John, did you have your hand up again or is that um you've already.

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Sorry, I meant to put it down: I'm all set okay! Okay, thank you guys should not stop. We've got one more.

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um Oops sorry, I'm too close to my husband.

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um I'm at 17 winchester street and I had one more thing, maybe just for john's information.

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On our side of maple haven, sarah has been doing a lot of work, so possibly you would want to hook.

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Up with her and connect so that we can discuss the whole project together as a neighborhood.

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All right, sarah may or may not have got involved here. Okay,.

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All right, okay, so I don't see anyone here, I'm doing right now, so we'll take all these questions.

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All right, yes, good evening, my name is john o'leary and I live in 15th annual drive. Excuse me.

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And I've lived in the maple haven neighborhood for 26 years I lived 25 years on suzanne drive.

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And the last 21 years over at daniel drive, one of the reasons I wanted a fanduel drive is that.

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Maple haven is a special neighborhood. We've lived there, we were looking for a larger house. We found.

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One and we frankly didn't have to move out of the neighborhood, so maple haven is pretty special to.

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Me one of the things that I've done with being there for 46 years, I've seen a lot of changes.

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All of most of them, good, you know we have a very, very vibrant, neighborhood.

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Vibrancy means that there's a lot of people who are active a lot of people walking. Yes, we and.

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One of the other things that's happened over the last few years is: we've had a derived influence.

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Of young families with strollers, etc. So one of the things I'd like to mention is that, and I.

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Those of you who know me know I've been involved with projects with the city for many many years.

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And one of the things you have to do when you have a project like this is come up with the overall.

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Objective that you're trying to achieve and in my mind the overall objective, should be safe.

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It should be safety for the people who are walking in the streets.

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For the people who are pushing strollers, so when you look at these various auctions.

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I would just ask that you look at those from the objective: what promotes safety.

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And yes, as dave has mentioned, many of the things we've talked they talked about do promote safety.

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And I'm happy to see those but one of the things we also have to think about, and it talks about the.

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Safety for ocean road, which is very important it also I mean it- was kind of interesting. A couple.

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Weeks ago I was coming down, suzanne drive and it cut me off, went right through the neighborhood.

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And out onto ocean road, unfortunately, for that person they were driving in company vehicles.

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So I could call the company but anyways. So the problem is that you know we have to find ways to.

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Make it safe, the other thing is, and it's not just you know the people cutting through one of the.

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Things that's happened is that the playground has become a wonderful asset for the city.

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So you have a lot of people: young parents walking their kids to the playground. We need to think.

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About ways to make it safe for them, we also have it being used for a lot of athletic events.

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Last spring, there were baseball teams practicing there. Well, the problem is.

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Some parents want to go, see their kids practice and they come flying down through the under eye.

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And the speed bumps won't have anything to do with that, so we. But what I'm saying is that some of the.

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Stuff we can't address, we can't do. We can't have police there all the time. So if we can't do that.

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What can we do to make it safe for people, and there are some areas, for instance, down around.

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15 suzanne around that corner has come flying around there and the line of sight is not all.

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That good, so those are the places we have to think about. Maybe there needs to be a sidewalk there.

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So that people can have the safety of being being out of the road, because at the end of the day,.

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When you take away the existing sidewalks, you know, which I can certainly understand.

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Then, basically moving everyone to the world. If you're going to do that, you need to find.

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Ways to make it safer people, so my only message is: when you look at something and say: did we do this.

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Shouldn't we do this, look at it from the perspective of it. We need to keep people safe.

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If you do that, then you'll end up with a good project. I'm also hearing that they're a hybrid.

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Solutions, not necessarily all over one. You know again, I'm not offering a solution nope. What.

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I'm doing is I'm just someone who's been through these. We are volunteering for the committee right.

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And then you say those are the things that are important and it may not be picking up who, like.

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Dave said, a solution that works on wallace may not be the solution that works on suzanne.

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Because traffic patterns of different opportunities, so you have to look at.

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Someone hybrid, if that's the term you want to use, certainly is something that should be.

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Considered because we don't want to ignore a place where there is a safety concern, because.

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We don't want to do that same thing on all of the streets. That's just uncommon understood. Thank you.

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So my first question I think, you've already addressed with that latest um ferrari update uh so.

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The suzanne side of the short section of sidewalk betty's plan, that's in line with the proposed.

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Crosswalk right, so it's not like it'll, be a jog where they cross walking into a crossovers. Okay,.

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um And second thing: I want to say agreeing with everything you've just said.

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um I want that neighborhood frequently we bolted, we walk our dog.

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um The state of the current sidewalks means that we walk on the street most of the time.

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um That's not typically an issue where it does become an issue for me is in the winter.

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So in the winter you get there's next to nowhere to put snow, so it never really gets piled on the.

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Sides we get snow banks that are built up so then the visibility around corners gets even worse.

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The sidewalks aren't cleared because, as you guys talked about in the first two meetings,.

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Dave whitman can't clean the sidewalks they're too narrow with being disrepair, so the sidewalks.

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Are essentially useless at this point anyway, my own personal feeling on it, echoing what um said.

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About being able to navigate the neighborhood safely on foot, I advocate for having sidewalks.

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To be able to walk the neighborhood to be able to have a city maintain the snow side of things.

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You know to be out of the street out of the car's way. That's my personal opinion.

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As to what side they go on one side, the other side, both sides, it really doesn't make a whole.

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Lot of difference to me, but I agree with john 100 having the ability to get out of the street where.

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It's built for cars and to have a safe place to walk for. Pedestrians is yes important to me.

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uh Tucker 821 wallace road, someone wrote that probably doesn't seem the most traffic. To be honest,.

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Ly so, um but I drive through the neighborhood a lot I'd like to echo what they just mentioned when.

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I look at sidewalks it's about safety, how it's not a we're, not walking down. We won, obviously so.

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It's not dire and it's not required, but ultimately there's a lot of different things to walk around.

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The neighborhood and how to sidewalks a little bit better I'd also like that. Actually I shouldn't say.

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Happy snapples, we have signed ones. I think we should recognize that when we have sidewalks.

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On both sides of the road, it almost all sides of the neighborhood too right so sidewalks exists, but.

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When people mentioned basically not usable only in a certain section having a wider sidewalks.

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Better for anybody, you know strollers wheelchairs, people, elderly retains it just all makes it more.

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Meaningful it can be maintain your winter, and um I think it just makes sense to have them.

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For any neighborhood, that's why sidewalks exist to have to.

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Modalities to modalities and people walking around people riding bikes.

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So I think it makes sense, I think, in the first couple meetings. You also mentioned that cyborgs.

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Were already allocated as part of the cip right, so the monies are there there's no extra taxing.

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It's not going to increase our taxes, we're not talking about huge water. It's already allocated.

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Plans were already there in place. I think the april meeting you had updated plans with less.

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Sidewalks that see you to account for everything that people were talking about. um One actual one.

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Of the uh issues brought up with little trees, that obviously makes sense. We want trees in.

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Our neighborhood, however, a lot of the trees on suzanne, like we would get taken down by the power.

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Company, before our wins, so I think something to make myself also trees can be replanted. We have.

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A great needs and trees committee that could be plant trees. We plant trees that have low roots, not.

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Congruent the trees right, that's the new sidewalks that every place like the current sidewalks, though.

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So I think, that's all part of the consideration, not letting the town do what you guys do things.

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Come up with a point incident with sidewalks in some way that minimizes impact will make the most.

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Sense for everybody right, I don't even know if I really need them that much right myself, but.

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So, just just one point of clarification: um capital money should set aside for sidewalk activities.

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You have a project, it's not moving forward. There are other sidewalk projects that do.

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Come forward and mindset expended that doesn't mean that real monies aren't set aside over.

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Time so you're correct, there are monies currently there and that's why we focused on any sidewalks.

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Here, however, there are other projects that aren't there in terms of consensus in terms.

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Of moving forward, so the moneys may not be there immediately once you get consensus.

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You may take a year when they're gather the money, but the neighborhood is clear that they.

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Want the money, as the council to support every two years money? Is it set aside for sidewalks.

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um So it's not like it wouldn't happen again. I just want to be clear that we don't hold on.

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We don't say: okay, this one is specifically for this. It's for sidewalks in general, yeah.

B

Okay yeah, I saw the cip like several neighborhoods identified. We were listed for a couple characters.

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um So does that mean that? Because when we met in march april, we were planning a potential to start.

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In the fall, but obviously it was some consensus uh concerns, so does that mean that if we get.

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Consensus, let's say we got consensus next week, hypothetical. um Would that mean money's available.

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Or not, you know they probably haven't done us now, uh because we're still working on finalizing.

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Details and apparently manor neighborhood, so you know the monies we have monies from both sides.

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We have bunnies we're doing state street right now. uh People civil consensus to move forward to that.

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um About you know, I'm just saying it's like you know there could be.

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Other things yeah things happening right, and this is things out right. Okay, so you.

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Know prices that we were talking about this spring are now exponential, so yeah.

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Even right now so we'd have to go out of bed. We really don't know what we're going.

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To get if the army goes down substantially, instruction prices might go down. So if foreign.

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So when you're talking about consensus, I don't know the ship like. I really think.

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Every resident should have a say, but how do you like do they say no sidewalks or sidewalks.

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But you know what I'm saying like I I totally agree it has to be the.

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Resolution, that's why that's what I'm really looking for stuff right like tell us right.

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We'll pick what side of the street it goes on, but I think the neighborhood has to have like before.

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We go forward like when they say the captain goes around right. The captain goes around. Does.

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It happen then go to every resident and say: listen. Would you like sidewalks or not long.

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Silence and that's it and then we come back to you and say: listen, 80 went sidewalks, 20, don't or.

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We don't need sidewalks everywhere, but we do want them to the park or we do want them right here or.

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You know we just know some sort of consumption. I I would. I would start with the last plan that.

B

We had out there there's a lot of thought that went into lakeland at the starting point. I was.

B

Just starting with that, um you know it's a different, it's difficult. I understand, but.

B

At the end of the day, I think the hybrid solution- probably you know the best approach just another.

H

Thing about safety, because you know where I live, um we don't have, we don't have stop.

H

Signs, and so we're talking about um you, know grabbing the traffic and stuff like that out.

H

Of my house there isn't a stop sign in front of the world's house. um There isn't there's.

H

Not a lot of stop signs coming in off those roads or I think that's one of those things.

B

B

You know eric and eric can review what science is out there and, if there's improved science, I.

B

Understand stop signs are not used to slow traffic so they're. You know, americans kind of describe.

I

um Can you pull up manchester street because I think I can get you consensus.

I

On one screen raise your hand if you live in winchester, does that include some of.

I

The people on there and I'll give you a consensus and what I'm finding is turkey.

I

This is not, you, don't want you to get up and I'm not going, but but I want to be able to see.

I

It I I understand, I don't want to sit back. I have no idea what I'm putting it yeah, but.

I

Wait a minute just because you're living on the winchester I drive winchester every day.

B

So let me back up and I'll talk about what I'm talking about and then we can discuss it because.

I

Can I do it over here just so. I can literally see.

I

I don't have that loaded, so it'll. Take me a second to pull that up.

B

But you know it's just a matter of you know we're we're here to present and obviously yeah.

B

I appreciate that. Okay, let me just pull it up all right. So the whole point is what I'm saying: what.

I

What's getting missed and a lot of this in the lack of consensus is, if you go into a history.

I

Of of maybe believe in, it's winchester street never had a sidewalk, and the street on a map is.

I

Different from what's there so everybody lives and it's a straight shot right. It's not supposed to be.

I

A straight shot they're supposed to be a curve, so the only way for them to put any kind of sidewalk.

I

In is to disproportionately affect different properties right, so the issue on winchester.

I

Street is what they can't legally take unless they go through and domain and necessary properties.

B

I can't look at my neighbors. I am not the most affected, but I can't look my.

I

Neighbors in them, basically I want a sight one remember and I'm not willing to stand experience today, but I need to sidewalk. So you have.

I

To self-report it, and if everybody in the neighborhood is willing to do this, and that's.

I

Fine, but part of this needs to be understood that what we're trying to do is retrofits a.

I

Neighbor hood- that was never meant to have five foot sidewalks and the consensus that.

I

Everybody wants that. That's fine, but go back, look at the maps and realize that you're retrofitting.

I

And every time you retrofit, it causes a problem and if we're okay, with the problems it causes.

I

And disproportionately to different people's properties in cities being nothing illegal.

I

They're taking what is legally theirs, but it is disproportionately affecting people's properties.

I

He's getting his fence and his plants moved uh 17 is losing a significant amount. Their pushes.

I

Are getting taken out on the corner where they historically, it is sold? Apparently, I've.

I

Been there for decades, where they normally park to get off of ocean that will now be.

I

A street they won't be able to park there, five two doors down for me. Four houses in a row have.

I

What would be a two-car driveway? You put the sidewalk in place, you can only place one park.

I

That's winchester products in so those are from winchester are here because on the file there.

A

Is a every positive has negative and vice versa- and this is I'm like with my neighbors in the eye.

I

And say I want this and therefore you have to deal with the consequences when you're starting to move.

I

Fences and bushes and everything else we need to have, I think, bigger discussions and if you.

I

Don't live on winchester street there's no reason for you to have to delete the maps the same as I.

I

Can't help people on suzanne because I haven't been there. So that's part of a conversation and.

I

I think there's been lack of conversation on code recently when a number of us have started walking.

I

Around trying to get inputs, because if everybody wants something and that's what we should have.

I

So I think one of the one of the things I've been seeing with the lack of consensus is.

B

That, in reality, we're being treated like one neighborhood when we're two separate entities.

B

That overlap, so I think you know when I when I have talked to people that seems like a definite.

B

Feeling on that side, on the set that there's a lot of concerns, rightfully so above property.

B

And, instead of that, it seems like the people um ignore more pushing towards. We do want some some.

H

Are pushing more towards like getting to the park and certain things, so I I feel like? Are we looking.

C

At trying to make sure both neighborhoods are voicing equally their concerns, because I think.

B

What's happening is so many concerns are being shot, so maybe what we need to do is we need to.

I

Get stout's concerns written down north concerns, written down and then iron out from there, because.

B

It just seems like do you get what I'm saying like, I know, you're not supported, but I think there's.

I

A few things to this, so I asked him to close the map so I'll just quickly. Look at the map.

I

All right, so this is the corner. So if I'm at 26 it's purple out, you can't miss me so.

A

3M right, there's not really a curve there. If you're grabbing down, there's now going to be.

I

A curve across the street, so you guys are 25 right across the street on the map because of.

I

What this the history of how winchester street is he's now going to have a significant amount.

I

Of driveway taken his entire fence and by moving his fence or moving significant landscaping, etc.

I

Picking out all her bushes and again really uh doing damage to.

I

How much driveway they have it's? It has to do with where your garage is in relation to.

I

um The street, so then, if you continue going down- and this is where it's disproportionate, because it.

I

Immediately has to be that curve and there isn't a curve because fairly occur. If you stand there so.

I

Certain people are jody, you are barely affected, but across the street from you, you have houses.

I

Whose driveways driveways will be significantly impacted? So I think if you want consensus.

I

Of the residents who live on winchester street, there is virtually a hundred percent agreement.

I

That we do not want this plan, you can put something else in. We can figure it out, but.

I

If you want consensus, there's a reason: they're not request, showed up because.

I

And again, if you live in the north and you think that you want these be able to willing.

I

To talk to the people, who are you're very much impacted and tell them why and that you don't.

I

Mind that things are getting moved and there's an expectation. I I get it there's the legality.

I

Of it, but when this this neighborhood, you know the roads have been in the past 80 years. There's.

I

Kind of an expectation that probably was going to look like that's not going through this friday, so.

I

I mean and my things, but I just think central time: winchester street.

I

And I think people just need to scare them out. You know those who become a parent made.

I

Depending about what you do for work, looking at these maps, if not everybody's forte, so you.

I

May have to ask, but you may have to stare at it um from walking around a lot of people went. I.

I

Didn't look at it, so that's, I think, that's the hard part, because what is this now is.

B

That map of the that is the original phone this spring. No, so what uh initiated area is.

I

Is you know you've made your point? Thank you very much about myself answer these questions.

B

You made your point. Thank you, okay, all right, let me just let me just kind of go down the series on.

E

How we got to this plan because there's there's a series of three plans: the one that we first.

E

Presented which did not show going on to the other side and encroaching uh into that area.

C

That was the very first plan and what we've heard back that, because that plan also showed was the.

B

Narrowing of of entrance into winchester street now what we got from the uh respondents from that.

B

Meeting was we don't want it to get narrowed up, in which case we said the only way in order to.

B

Get a sidewalk in and not narrow it up would be to push to the other side, but our first drawings did.

B

Not show that specifically because we did not want to encroach on other people but from the feedback.

B

That we got that's where this plan came up with and again these are just conceptual plans. There is.

B

Nothing completely designed about them. They were just some people to get a conversations starting.

B

And get public meeting. So that's where the second one came up and then that's where we had the.

B

Second meeting and we got that feedback from the public that you know with uh people calling about.

B

The concerns about doing that. So that's why this latest, drawing that we are presenting now, which.

B

Just shows the sidewalk coming in shortly goes back to the idea of narrowing up the.

B

Road to 24 feet, just as you get in in order to get that sidewalk in and not encroach on.

B

um On the opposite side, so that's that's just where the series of.

B

The plans came from and again they were from feedback from the public.

C

Okay, just introduced a couple things that we could. My name is okay, so I'm right on.

B

The corner of annual winchester, so I have a sidewalk yeah to a sides of my house actually.

B

um Just inside of it that's been there since.

B

um So just some logistic questions, I'm not here just looking for consensus on that, the.

B

Latest plan right, which is the short sex of the sidewalk on both winchester and susan and.

B

To go forward with the requester yeah we would actually. This was based on the impact. This was.

B

This is our plan. We are moving forward with this um request. As a human cry, uh you all.

B

To not do it because we felt the past meetings, this was a consistent interest, and so we do not.

B

Feel like we're stepping on the limb uh put in uh speed tables and make a connection all right.

B

So that's clear: that's the first step for you all right! So you're not looking at consensus.

B

You guys are going forward. I personally think that's a really good compromise. You.

B

Guys get a talented something that seems to be the least sustainable awesome, so nice job.

C

Now, with that, you are going to um the world will get a little bit narrower.

B

On that end of winchester right, are you going to put no parking signs well, yeah by state law? There's no parking, then 30 feet at the intersection, so yeah. We would.

C

Put the signs up: if it's a problem, then we can put the signs there right, but 30 feet is only.

B

To here yeah, you know just over a car one or two car like no okay. That might be a good idea.

B

The speed table in winchester- that's not in this right, if you guys took that up. Okay,.

B

And the cfe process it sounds like maybe the sidewalks are not technical cfp or maybe it.

B

Is as well for the cip process, it's like we put aside money every two years of requested money.

B

City amounts every two years from sidewalks and roadways, so there are monies that are set.

B

Aside on that, it helps if the residents ask for specific uh projects, because it.

B

Supports the argument: yes, people are asking police items, but if there's a separate road.

B

Project or a side path project that needs to be identified so ocean road, in particular,.

B

Where it's not a city road, it's a state road. We really need the residents to say hey. We.

B

Want this is that then, gives us the ability to go to some counsel and say hey. They want us to.

B

Residents want us to take a stab at doing this. We think it's a good idea, because it.

B

Is you know it is a very fast street? There are a lot of houses down that way and there is a.

B

We're in the party of the things.

B

Ocean road is a really good idea. We need you to let the plan department.

B

Just a couple of things to do. Thank you. Can you speak louder, so we can hear you.

B

Back yeah, I'm sorry, I'm just ignorance, a couple of things just question: what is that.

B

um Multi-New spot can look like.

B

um No idea what it ended up, looking like if you go past.

B

um There's a short section of local news path near we're, seeing james yeah, but the.

B

Church used to be uh nearby continues going up in the constitution. You can see a section.

B

uh Asphalt, um you know it looks like a map. Okay, so, as developers have been coming into.

B

The city for the last five or six years we have been requiring them to build these pathways.

B

Because we understand that examine the geological time, so we've been pushing the issue.

B

um Just a couple more the snow rule like I said: I've lived here for 15 years and I'm throwing.

B

Stones here at all because we take care of it, but I've never had the city coming soon.

B

No, they haven't since.

B

B

They're not going to truck a snow thrower down there to do.

E

800 feet of road and then truck it back up yeah depending upon.

B

The timing, how much work we have going on? uh We can get sidewalk traffic together. We have.

B

A section of sidewalk on the anfield road now so there's more impetus to get get down that way. So.

B

It may be a day or two three, you know, depending upon what we do is we start with the highest.

B

Population of pedestrians, safe groups to schools- uh those are the things we start with and then.

B

We worked our way up, but we do pick up. We will, you know we wouldn't pick up sidewalks out there.

B

Yeah and again just for perspective, they are not a fantasia. The fact that data shows that.

B

They don't improve safety at all, because it gives people of all sorts of security that it is across.

B

One here under the cross, so let's just be careful; okay, the way you're going to look at cross blocks.

B

Is that we see crosswalk it? Doesn't it's not a shield? It's not magic carpet. Cars hurt what.

B

It means is that what it should mean that a traffic engineer and looked at it studied it.

B

And has agreed that this is the safest place to cross that's what it means yeah, it doesn't mean.

B

Anything other than that, it's just for perspective. The data shows over 10 000 average daily cars.

B

um Over ten thousand, which I don't think ocean world would be, but I really have no idea the.

B

Crashes, which is a beautiful, hitting a pedestrian, is the same whether it's a crosswalk area or not.

B

It really does give a false, so be careful and last question. I promise you foreign.

B

Except up so it doesn't fill with water, but in the same spot. Okay, so then, uh just a second comment.

B

um Itself could possibly repeat it, but I think what sarah said about it based.

B

On the impact that it has resonates with us, because we're going to lose.

B

um Parking space because we park on that grass, so it's going to force our cars into.

B

The road more we're going to lose driveway space by that as well um and yeah. It's just.

H

For all these people, if you go out there, we're going to put in this particular.

B

Sidewalk right there's a three-point sidewalk there now so it'll be 2p wires.

H

B

So I'm not sure that's true, that's true and there's I mean there's opposing views to that.

B

Because there are many studies that say that when you give traffic less room, car slowed down.

B

Which is one of the reasons why you know a lot of the streets downtown you've seen.

B

That the even islington street is smaller than it used to be. We did it on purpose.

B

So their cars would slow down. So I understand they fly because it's wide open understand so and I'm.

B

Not suggesting that you put your car out there as a shield, but the result is, is that we are at.

B

The road, if the road is a little smaller people, do go a little slower and it is safer in general,.

I

And that's everybody with kids, north and south, the kids don't walk, they break they scooter. They.

I

I see you know rollerblades every other day I mean they're getting pushed further into traffic and.

I

I agree, every study says sidewalks are safer or pedestrians there's a reason that wheels really.

I

Are illegal on sidewalks and if you start doing just a walk through, you realize every kid under.

I

The age of 18, I'm sorry the 20 year olds they're on wheels, and I don't want my five-year-old.

I

She's currently allowed to bike somewhat freely to some neighbors houses.

I

Now playing in traffic because it's narrowed that much and I can say that there is a consensus of.

I

Parents and that's I'm, I'm walking around and part of what I'm hearing is yeah. That sounds.

I

Great for other people, but I don't think I've used it and then I'm asking parents because.

I

If we're talking about safety, the big thing is kids and as a parent, I've been trying to.

I

Ask a lot of other parents. How do you feel? Do you think your kid on a scooter should be.

I

On the sidewalk: well, no because that's not safe either the cracks just that doesn't work so well.

I

um There's a problem with them narrowing it, because we are a neighborhood there's they're.

I

Kids everywhere right, my kid is on a school bus, a million kids this year and next year is going to.

I

Exponentially grow in the next year. That's part of the joy of our neighborhood. We have you know.

I

I have a neighborhoods on their fourth generation and I have a five-year-old. So that's part of the.

I

Joy of our neighborhood: let's not push these kids on wheels further into traffic and you're going.

I

To have to be such a completely like, yes, we have a curve. I can't park the two wheels in the grass.

I

You've just narrowed winchester that much more, no matter what the plan is. I mean just because right.

I

Now everybody tries to get as far off as they can, so that everybody walking five bucks and two.

I

Baths and all the conversations that we all have standing in the middle of the street. That's part.

I

Of the choice I can walk around and I had random conversations with random people standing in the.

I

Middle of the street- and none of us feel unsafe, so sarah, so we're not proposing to do anything.

B

At this time, so, let's focus on you know what we're talking about this evening be very clear what the.

B

Concerns are we've been reported very clearly, she's speaking for a lot of us. That's fine! You.

H

Say it as well? Well, I don't know what she says. My name is jody and I live at 45 winchester. I.

A

Don't like having my neighbor's posh, I think she's speaking for a lot of us. Thank you. I appreciate.

B

That and I'm not touching anybody, I've heard the question I need to hear other folks. Perspect was.

B

Fun we're not building sidewalks down in that area. What are you arguing? I I hear you okay,.

H

With your current plan- and everybody says yes, we want the crosswalk and there's consensus if.

I

You want me to walk every house or walk down to every house. You already have consensus the next.

I

Question is now: what do you do? Do you go a plan, one two, three or four, no we're saying right now.

H

What we're saying right now is that we're moving forward with what we presented here right you all.

B

Make a decision on how you'd like to move. Perhaps we are not saying anything beyond that. This.

B

Is great that dialogue you have right now within your neighborhood and if you need to bifurcate the.

B

Neighborhood so that it's you know north and south and that's that's fine, but we need to understand.

B

When you get consensus, what you'd like to do, we have consensus right now about what we're.

B

Going to do we're moving forward with this, so we're just in bringing it up saying you need.

B

To have it, you want sidebars elsewhere, then you need to come up with a consensus to relay.

B

That information to us, but right now we do not. We clearly understand that there's no consensus on it.

B

So we are moving forward, but we have consensus on and that's what we're talking about tonight.

B

Okay, excuse me: please.

B

So, on paper, substance obviously represented three. I represented I even and.

B

Both of those neighborhoods are looking at the same problem, sidewalks and.

B

It's not an easy same system culture, because, like you just heard, everybody has a different location.

B

Of the organization, but I would just ask everyone to think about that. uh What david was saying about.

B

The statement being really slowly as a state that I can assure you that's very true. So if.

B

In fact, we're getting any money by mistake and we dawdled and connect them into a consensus. You're.

B

Gonna lose them no questions about, because there are people out there who can grab that.

B

Money as soon as they can now, the other part is look, a lot of people would say. Maybe I've heard.

B

This said by people: what is posterity ever done for me? Well, a lot of our neighborhoods.

B

And away minor, for example, it's been there a long time, maybe even as well, uh in societal.

B

Auditions those trees that were initially planted there by somebody uh were usually not designed.

B

um To avoid damage from sidewalks, that was not looking at this moment, so wouldn't it make a lot.

B

Of sense for us to invest in something permanent over the long term, even though it might offer a.

B

Little sacrifice for use of us and I don't live in minnesota, but it is an issue that you've got.

B

To invest in your neighborhoods make it better. Your home values will increase, because the red.

B

Sidewalks there is more valuable, so there's a lot of benefits to this, and um while I agree and.

B

We consensus, uh I would say that that can sense pretty quickly. If you want the money, that's fine.

B

So, just to clarify that there are some real estate funds involved in this work, so actually.

A

I appreciate what you're saying in terms of route one discussions, that's accurate, so.

B

Let's all right so not a regular 32 period.

B

Like speed tables, are they table like on the south sides of our neighborhood like because you you did.

B

A study you said it wasn't completely, we had we had, most people have been agency limit or close.

B

To it, we had one really crazy variant that we saw rather than that in general. We need to pick.

B

Up some towers, but if there's a consensus, if we still move forward with speed tables.

B

And I'm only saying this because I have an eight-year-old, there is 25 kids that play.

B

On their bikes and yes, I want to drink and but they're going to be riding their bikes in the.

B

Roadstone yeah, um and even you I remember when you guys put that thing up on winchester well, we can.

B

Get one on the other side of the neighborhood and we have a massive straightaway there as well. That.

B

People fly, I live right out the corner. I see them ranking past my house. What section are you talking.

B

About I'm on the corner, like you go down marriott like an order straight away, it goes everywhere.

B

Yes, there's a stop sign where the fanduel comes out, where a lot of people don't stop.

C

um But we have a million kids in our neighborhood. Now that's the beauty and I brag to my friends of.

B

How great it is that it's old school, I don't do play dates, go go to your friend's house, knock.

B

Your friend's door right- and I want like when john was just earlier, was saying there. That's.

B

Safety piece when I know people are flying in this neighborhood, regardless of your study when.

B

You look out our windows and people are flying and silence are great, you know, but I think the speed.

B

Table shouldn't be looked at a little bit more. You can certainly do that so yeah mechanism to do that.

B

Is that uh the traffic statements we need to look at it by bringing it up well, yeah and then we'll.

B

Do it and then we'll do a speed, study, yeah, we'll do a speed setting here and then we can hear it.

B

Okay, I'm debbie. I live at 37, suzanne amanda.

B

But there is, I spent a lot of time outside. I don't know, I don't okay. I believe this since.

B

The early 90s, I rarely see people using sidewalks and the few that do. I can tell you who they are.

B

They're just walking their dogs a lot of them, don't pick up after their dogs. Some do I'm not.

B

Put the fingers at anybody last thing I want to do is be surprised when I'm.

B

On my front lawn now, you're saying try to put sidewalks I'm 5'3. Are you saying.

B

That that [, __ ] part is going to be 5 feet. Plus you get the grass for the road.

B

While you're incorporating all that you said yeah in the entrance of sudan,.

B

And that there's a speed table going. Okay, I'm talking about you've, got a five foot sidewalk.

B

We're not putting a sidewalk there in this phase, we're not eventually you will so I'm just looking senses.

B

Excuse me it directed directly to the group and decide: let's not have side.

B

Conversations and try to have one conversation.

B

The snowball in such a way that you don't understand, okay, you've got route. One then.

B

Coming in with the big clouds- and they I swear to god, they laughed if I'm out there.

B

I leave at 4 15 in the morning to go to work. You have a lot of pain outside your driver.

B

Yeah, that's why let me know yeah, I plug your neighborhood. For many years, I've been.

B

Out there in blizzard africa- and I thank you- there's no banks so high that I come out of my.

A

Drivers is literally been where you live, because there's so much so, but this is a good. This is a.

B

Hotline we're not doing it and I'm talking about snow level at the moment, but obviously I'm not.

H

For the sidewalks, oh, that's fine, but if you have concerns about the stone rule, that's you know. Yeah.

H

Hi um sidewalk is there at all a chance that it could be proposed as the current footprint of the sidewalk.

H

That exists down that would just be replaced with something that is not dilapidated. It would.

H

Not affect anyone's property, as is that at all a chance, but dad has to be considered because you.

B

Have we're responsible for when we put sidewalks in, and I know folks down on the other end, you know.

B

They don't get a cloud, but we are responsible for power. We power with it, but still call that.

B

Is wider than the existing sidewalks, so we will not be able to be done. We're trying to make things.

B

Consistent when we can make it so that we can make it so you know if we put new sidewalks out there,.

B

We're going to be following, you know: it's not we're not going to lead you down there without.

B

A cloud sidewalk after we invest so we won't be able to park. So when my 91 year old, dad comes to.

B

Visit he's not going to be able to park on that grass section, the sidewalk he'll be in the stream.

H

Will there still be some of the devil straw, which is that yes left over yeah.

H

Anywhere around it.

B

H

um This is a good dialogue relative to street designs and stuff, like.

B

That but let's focus back on you know this particular proposal we're doing right now.

B

And I I guarantee you we're going to be having additional meetings in the.

B

Future we have further discussion about your neighborhoods, so what is.

I

Seems like you want feedback, but then it's not the right feedback. So if you had one question.

I

To ask everybody's sitting here: what is that question? What we presented was the crosswalk.

B

A short section of sidewalk, if you need to show off hand versus by us and everybody in there, yeah.

B

So, sarah, how about you and I tax you this again? Okay, you can find whatever.

H

Consensus, it is I'm pretty neutral on it because it doesn't affect me. It's fine.

H

Let's get together, let's work together, you and I we'll tag team. The neighborhood will get very.

B

Specific incentive and then we will bring it back to dpw. So it's not this. I feel like we're in the.

B

Royal rumble a little bit we're all talking to each other. You know we all think just because.

B

You want sidewalks, you don't care about my I you know. I think we all want we'll speak. You.

B

Out with the consensus- because I don't- I know that because I you know, there's there's six.

B

Neighbors of mine that are not here today, who I don't really want sidewalks, so I think what we.

H

Need to do is literally you and I we want to be tag teams we can go and we can hit every single.

H

Door and then we can build a professor which has already been done. Yes, that was done.

B

Thank you they're very clear. Like I know, obviously your daughter did that, but to be very sure,.

A

But my point is, if you hit every neighbor would be.

B

Very clear: are you willing to lose five feet of your dropbox.

B

If the question is, is it more important to have that five feet of make things safe.

B

That, at the end of the day, that would be dealing in my mind.

B

So I'm with you on that- and I will do that, but this is I had emailed you.

I

I don't know, maybe a month or two ago and I had said look part of the poem is, if you and I.

I

Go door to door great we're, not them right! Bbw sits there, because we pay them because they're.

I

Good to go right so if, if somebody says well, I have a question: can we do this? I'm going to sit.

I

There and say I have no idea and I'm going to say I'm with you but six days five days.

I

A week- and I can relay that question directly before it was instead of another one of these.

I

Meetings we just had a roundtable discussion, hey she had a question. Can we repave what we.

I

Have that's been asked a million times for the past few months and there hasn't been a foreign.

I

Relationship between us and the city we're having meeting after meeting, because it's the city up.

I

There, an elected official and residence here, and we should not write anything well yes, but.

A

It's a dual role: yeah, I understand it, and so we need to and and my feeling after all this.

I

Has said it done, the city needs to boost the word of on what happened in this neighborhood.

I

To prevent this happening as a next neighborhood, and I understand that it's an entertainment that.

I

That is something that's in profits that we, as a city, are trying to figure out how.

I

Do we determine what 70 you know? Consensus is, but some of it in these smaller neighborhoods.

I

Needs to be more informal roundtable, not a there's, a presenter, even the way you set up.

I

A room makes a difference and have it so that if she or somebody else has a question because.

I

I I've got a lot of questions about, can we do this? Can we do this and show the maps and talk.

I

To people I live here and how is it going to impact me because there's a lot of people who.

I

They do it monthly, so so maybe again we get consensus and then they are a great forum.

B

That we can, we can talk it out of the neighborhood and then, as a neighborhood. We get that consensus.

B

And we bring it to them with this kind of thing where we have the extra. I understand.

A

I understand, but we just want everybody in terms of options given, as we meeting after meeting is.

B

We do not have an infinite amount of time, we have other responses and we appreciate we have.

B

These meetings, we've gotten a lot of feedback, we come, you know, and people ask questions and.

B

We answer questions so we understand you want that participation and that's what these meetings are.

B

For you need to understand, though we also have you know the rest of the city that we need to have to.

B

Maintain we have all the other things that we do day to day, so we don't have an infinite amount.

B

Of time, we hope that we get clear, clear feedback from people when we bring these things forward. We.

B

Make modifications and that's what happens and then we finalize the design and we present that.

B

There is not clear consensus here. Typically, we get clear consensus after a couple meetings.

B

It's typical: we do this all the time and for whatever reason, there's differences, opinion.

B

And it may be because north and south should not be co-main, because they're very different.

B

um Movements of trafficking people, and so maybe what we should do is we should look at feeding.

B

The two commitments separately, the two sections enabled separately and there could be an easier.

B

Way of getting simple senses so but to to point out and say that we do not listen and we're not.

B

We're not being responsible we're not providing answers. It's not an accurate reflection of. What's.

B

Happening so I need to, I need to stand up for that, and, and really you just need to.

B

Dial it down a little bit, we will get to the end and get a product if you guys want. We have.

B

A portion of something that you are interested in, we are moving forward with that. So there is.

B

Progress being made, it will take time. Yes, sir, so just a question about me. The word versus itself.

B

Break into two sections: it's easier to get consensus between smaller groups and then.

B

That way, you're not trying to satisfy one person over here, that is against side loss.

B

One person over here that his foresight was you have a larger group on one side that says.

B

Yes, sidewalks are acceptable, let's make it happen, and I go over here saying no cyborgs they're not.

B

Acceptable, we do not want that there, so they were able to come to consensus on those two separate.

B

Areas so that would be nice to be able to do, but we are not forcing this on you. You all need to.

B

Decide how you're going to do this and, if you're willing to come to the table and have discussion.

B

That's fine but oftentimes. We feel um battered, we feel uh measured and we don't feel like it's. It's.

B

Really something that's a collaborative approach. We feel like it's confrontational. We don't want.

B

That and we appreciate your resilience, we want, we want you guys to be able to do the discussion. We.

B

Know it's important and it's challenging for us to be able to take the time to do that. But it's.

B

Worth the time instead, so we are willing- and we will do- that- we will continue to have these names.

B

And I appreciate it's just the mayor stepping into the frame and being the evidence committee.

B

Because I feel like everybody's starting to think.

B

Just need to this is positive. The neighborhoods talking to each other.

B

We're moving forward with this unit we're making some progress. It's going to take time.

I

I'll only say, one thing in response is that I agree part of it. This is a waste of your time.

I

Instead of uh separate forum, where more gets started quicker, and I think the forum of this.

I

City-Wide or maybe just years, you need to change something, because if you keep.

B

Getting the same results, it's probably doing the wrong thing. This is a waste of your time.

I

I'm sorry this is city, I'm telling you should not be growing up. I think.

B

It's a really good significant. I think probably the next meeting.

B

You guys do first and then we can sit down and have that approach and that's what I asked for.

I

Months ago, so fantastic very different way of doing this, because we're just back.

H

um I just wanted to know, um I just want to say I don't think this is a waste of time.

H

For me, because I actually I didn't see, I learned a lot from your presentation. I.

H

Learned about what we are going to have it at this point, so all those things.

H

Is there and just like, how would you define consensus into different numbers? So if you.

B

Look at the number of people in the neighborhood, and then we have to have a certain care is that is.

B

That what you would need so that we could actually say yes, and could we go as a committee if there.

H

Isn't a neighborhood community we separated into north, and so we have made them some sort of both.

H

Sides put it together and agreeing from the subjects one side. If you go forward because.

B

Some system there yeah, I think, that's a great suggestion. Typically, we use 70 or 75 of their.

B

Households, so not you know, you have five people and also I saw five votes. One household yeah, so.

A

There's three kids. Yes, you know. Obviously, if you're 74, you know there's a but it's.

B

Clear direction that is support. I, like your suggestion of you, have.

B

To get 70 on one side of the rest on the other side, because that's because.

B

um You know and the north side does have the um so that's you know a nice nice.

B

uh Time frame, consensus really is open-ended because.

B

So every year we go through the cfp process, so you know the cip process.

B

Of a public input side, it's finishing up, I think october 15th. I know that since.

B

September 30th, but it may be october 15th, but perform since september. 30Th.

B

But then it's not just because you don't get it in this deadline doesn't mean it doesn't.

B

Get next year cycle- and there are some monies- and we already have been planning to work here.

B

So there are some moneys available to someone whether it's all the work that people want to go.

B

It's the ocean road part. Is it one person fills it out.

B

So it's it's not a simple slam. Dunk we get the money and we can have it. I think you.

B

Know getting consensus will help, because then we can go to the same. The state's investing in.

B

A rail trail- that's you know, supposedly I mean, is up in construction next year. uh So it's it's.

B

Coming quickly, you know this, so that's really good, so john had to stand up first, but yeah.

B

You're just to clarify something- and I don't know the answer, but the proposal for the side ones now.

B

What does the city go as far as the right of way is concerned? If I go in the neighborhood in other.

B

Words, we've heard the question I believe is you're taking five people by land or something like that.

B

Is we are, is it I know it's not yeah easy answer, but when you come to the end of the pavement.

B

You'll have your page rolled and you have an effect. The front lawn.

B

What you know is that okay is the right of way owned by the city. Yes, yes, so it is a great example.

B

John okay, the dashed lines, uh the right of way, the asphalt and that's certainly from a lancer.

B

You know, I know that, there's a I don't know, and uh you know aspect.

B

But from a legal perspective, legal doesn't answer all the questions.

B

But the landed question that they're talking about is actually owned by the city.

B

As we've all been through, wait a minute, but in general the maple haven is about this much room on.

B

The backside of the asphalt sidewalk, that is where the property line actually is so the sidewalk.

B

That they're out there isn't right away the grass strip between the sidewalk and the road is in the.

B

Right away before some roads are in the right way, this particular spot winchester street winchester.

B

Street we built, I want to use a technical turn willy-nilly. They didn't actually build the road.

B

In the middle of the road middle right away, it kind of blasted it in where they, wherever it.

B

Was cheaper and they probably went around some legs and utilities and they said we'll paint it.

B

Here and as long as we're not on anybody's lot, we're good, but but because winchester street was.

B

The first street- and it was like a eight house subdivision that got added on to in modern times,.

B

In modern times, if winchester street got added on to with 150 houses, there is no way the city would.

B

Allow that without having the developer, build a sidewalk in winchester stream. So all those.

B

People can yell, but we're not that all happened in the past. We know that, but in general, in maple.

B

Haven, sidewalk, that's about where the right-of-way line is how it was born to remember that everybody.

B

In the city going to the right way, it's not the city versus you. It's public land versus private.

B

Okay. So but that being said, the city is very cognitive of property owners and the feeling.

B

That they have some right to that, I'm not going to stop that. So we're not we're not. We.

B

Very hesitant to to impact folks, I understand that right and we do not in fact tax people on.

B

Land where the sidewalk in the grass strip is between the sidewalk and the road we're.

B

Not getting taxed on them, don't get taxed on that land. So, but I heard somebody say that.

B

Too, that doesn't get that doesn't get taxed. It's only the land behind the sidewalk of your house.

B

I actually live on arsenals, um so um since.

C

The cnc member lane actually dropped over to the road now for two years can deliver.

B

She might have been bummed out about what the uh the national night out brochure so.

B

We walked every door on ocean road twice now, sidewalks are pretty necessary yeah I mean I.

E

Mean to the point, like maybe a car mirror like anything more inches from my elbow more than.

B

One, so it's it's going to be careful because yeah and now it's paved so it's even faster.

B

Yeah yeah, I know so I'll, fill out our forms. Okay, thank you.

B

So what you know we have one person: okay,.

B

B

Can hear us? Yes hi, we can hear you too okay, my hand's been up for a while. um I know I'm sorry.

F

um I just wanted to agree- and I know that you guys probably don't want to hear this, but with what.

F

Sarah was saying in 26, um and I and I understand that we're in a different place with the north.

F

And south side of the neighborhoods, but um on the south side it really does adversely affect.

F

um A lot of the property I mean we have big.

F

um Privacy, hedges, an entire row of them. I know our neighbors in 25. It affects they.

F

Have beautiful landscaping outside and they've spent a lot of time and effort on doing that.

F

um I know it affects sarah's, trees and, and I'm I was really just raising my hand to stand with.

F

Everybody on the winchester side of things um that something different needs to happen.

F

At least on our side of it and that's all I was saying, and then I had a question yeah alexis um so.

G

You said, oh, we already have consensus and we're going to go forward with the plan that we have.

G

Which plan is this? Is this the just the sidewalks for a little bit? Is that yeah, the sidewalk? That's.

B

Been up on the screen quite a bit tonight, it's basically uh a little section on suzanne and.

B

And one house on winchester street just so we can get people onto it and off that crosswalk.

B

So you can see the diagram now on the screen: yeah, okay, so that so that, so it stops right at that.

B

Bold black line at the end of the yard number 163 is where we're proposing and then you would step.

B

Onto an asphalt service and you would walk down the edge of the road from there. Okay and that and.

G

The proposal says that there's no effect to the other side of the road right, they've moved from.

F

Trees- and so I would just like some clarification, did we make that a consensus already and that's.

G

What's going to happen, or we still getting the feedback on that? Oh, we believe we have.

B

Good enough consensus that we're moving forward with this plan. Okay, all right! Thank you. Okay,.

B

I know there was a couple other hands up there, questions got answered or whether.

B

They're still interested so okay, oh kevin.

D

Go ahead, kevin hey! This is kevin. Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you kevin.

D

Great thanks, um thanks for the presentation I live on, 24 suzanne, um so I I guess is that.

D

The north side, I'm trying to figure out that's my neighborhood games, all right.

D

um So so, thanks for the presentation uh really helpful to get uh an idea of what what's happening.

D

um I wasn't uh aware of the first few meetings um earlier in the spring, um so I just wanted to.

D

Share you know a little bit in terms of the process and moving forward. I know that this.

D

This meeting really was just to. Let us know that you're moving forward with the crosswalk, which.

D

Across the ocean, which I think is great, um but in terms of the process moving forward, you know I.

D

I I still haven't actually seen all of these documents. I think it would be great if you.

D

Know if people are thinking about trying to do consensus to actually be putting the proposals.

D

And the plans and everyone's mailboxes, um so that would be really great. I also didn't hear anybody.

D

um Just in terms of raising issues that will be discussed in the future, not trying.

D

To discuss them right now, but um I nobody has talked about the tree situation really.

D

um You know older trees that we have are not the same as newer trees and they provide.

D

Different shades there's different impacts on the environment, so I just wanted to raise that too.

D

um And really just in terms of if you really are trying to get consensus.

D

um From the neighborhood we need, you know, better information in terms of the plans that.

D

People need to be informed and have have actual documentation to be able to look at.

D

um When we're thinking about what we're being asked to talk about and vote on and the last.

B

Thing I wanted to say I'm sorry yeah. Let me just add one last thing and then and then I promise.

D

um Just one last thing people have been talking about, you know north versus south, and how it's.

D

A very different situation and there was sort of an implication that there would. You know easily.

D

Be consensus on the north side and I just want to you know I'm just sort of learning. No, I'm.

D

Just learning for this about this for the first time, so I'm not sure if everyone has really been.

D

Filled in completely so I'm not sure that's a safe assumption to make. I know when I drive on simmons.

D

I'm on suzanne right at the corner, but when I drive on simmons there's a lot of kids playing.

D

Out there, so there are a lot of kids on this side of the neighborhood too, and there's also a lot of.

D

Cars parked on the grass there. If you're talking about a change, that's gonna, you know push cars.

D

Onto the street and you're talking about a lot of kids that are coming out across the street when.

D

There's cars, so you know people are bringing up safety as sort of the core concern. There's.

D

Different ways to think about that too, because I've also lived in places where there's a lot.

D

Of cars on the street, even very narrow streets, you can't see through cars, you can't see when kids are.

D

Coming out from between them, so just I think, a lot of other things for people to talk about too. But I.

D

Do want the trees to be talked about and as we move forward, and that's it thanks for uh thanks.

D

For putting this together today, I actually did find it helpful and thanks to sarah for letting.

D

Us know that this meeting was happening. Okay kevin just so you know we, we did talk about trees.

B

uh A lot in the first two meetings, so I know you weren't precipitate for participating in that. Why.

B

We did that's why we didn't bring him up tonight really because we we've already talked about.

B

Him quite a bit. uh We can post the prior plans online as prior plans just for discussion points.

A

Thank you. Thank you related to the back to the crosswalk. You got to go to d.o.t, yes, um confidence.

B

Factor- and I'm saying yes because I know this- it is pretty close to an existing signal and.

B

Crosswalk on group, one in the ocean and if they say no on the sidewalks off the ones you proposed.

B

They would be, but I think a confident level is fairly high. I would say we're at 80 or better.

H

At this point, is that part of consensus.

B

The sidewalks need to be removed, even if we replace them yeah, so we're moving them now. Society.

B

Regardless of what happens after, what's, there needs to go, and I think I don't think anybody's.

B

Going to say no, I want my crappy sidewalks, but so we so that is something that's definitely.

B

Yes, part of the project, that's going to happen next year, nothing's gonna happen.

B

So if, if you, if you get into replacing the sidewalks, the ones that are going to get torn.

B

Up, but are you tied to ada requirements the building and they do you're required.

B

Everybody else so this is not life-changing, but if you do pull up those sidewalks and.

B

Next, two years to put sidebox in you just have ditches in our front yards.

H

We're gonna we're gonna, remove the [ __ ], shake it off.

B

B

B

Yeah, if there's desire, I mean I've, heard a lot folks talking about master playing the.

B

Neighborhood thinking about other things other than cyrus the reason that there wasn't a huge.

B

Facilitated program of this was this was a sidewalk road project. It was not, let's.

B

Revision, the all the function of the neighborhood, all the other things you know, so that that's how.

B

This happened, if you all are looking for, like, let's have a master plan for the neighborhoods.

B

You need to to kind of start that process and I would encourage you to.

B

Work through the neighborhood committee and you have a reward forum coming up next week,.

B

um And so you know, I'm sure, there's going to be a lot of this similar feedback at that time.

B

um You know with there's, never been a discussion to say: let's do a visioning for nickel haley.

B

That's from broadcast, maybe there has been internally for you all, but there's you know.

B

It really hasn't been brought forward to say, hey. You know like like that um this one's decree.

B

Ghana area the neighborhoods came said: hey. We want completely revitalize this. We want a whole thing.

B

And it was a multi-year program put together um to do that. um There was less meetings than we had.

B

This to get bored on it, but it was, it was a driven by the neighborhood saying they wanted to do that.

B

If you all are saying you want to have some master plan or a vision of your neighborhood.

B

I would encourage you to put that in a cip to say that you would like that gun, and you know.

B

The receipt money put down and then there'd be a professional process done saying what is that.

B

Vision for your neighborhood and it needs to be contagious, it is not, but so that's so whenever.

B

We're going to resolve any of this right now, but I'm just I'm just like that's the process right.

B

I just had a question about the speed table at the last meeting. It was going to be at the.

H

Beginning and then eggs by ocean road and then possibly one where the second one you have now on.

B

They never said the suzanne yeah it was. It was back on the first quarter and then okay.

B

Yeah, well, we got for feedback, was some people probably be better towards the.

B

Entrance right, the entrance and the exit right- that's pretty much. The original.

E

One that we presented had there and here right and then we they changed it to the.

B

Front and then there was talk about how they end up the suzanne ocean, road exit.

B

I remember one year- and I remember one here, but so the idea of having went towards the center.

B

Was going to break up, you know if you have just one on either end people will zoom between if.

B

It was suggested and then some one said: do you want to penalize the neighborhood by putting the.

H

One in the entrance in the exit- okay, that makes sense so and no it wouldn't because.

H

It wouldn't make any sense because you have to slow down right but yourself. So it's just your.

H

Neighbors, your neighbors around the back side, but your neighbor said we're talking about it.

H

Instead of going that way, they're going to take a left and they're going to zoom around ocean road.

B

And not ocean road um suzanne come up simon's and they're gonna have that one at the time.

H

They do people avoid that just to avoid the speedboat and if.

B

There's a way they can get one and zoom in exact time to sort of make it faster.

H

Too I realize they do, but- and that's this is not to do with anything on simon's or.

B

Anything on wallace or anything on the backside of suzanne. It's just to try to slow people down.

B

They're using it right right, so if I go through a neighborhood to try to cut six.

B

Seconds off the lifetime, I'm not going to add 19 seconds to get around the whole neighborhood.

B

It's quick, so I grew up right where I am.

B

They find a way, so you know what we can do what's build and measure you know we can get these built.

B

So I'm gonna say this is another answer back there yeah, so people are gonna. Do what.

H

They're gonna do the entire neighborhood can't beat the p tables right. The way it.

H

Is makes sense to me because I live right down to the band where the one is in the.

H

Middle of the road, that's where children are playing every single day. That's our kids are.

H

Playing so what would happen if it went to the other exit over there, by where I.

H

Live make movement speed table, they get to that longer stretch road and they fly right.

B

B

So we can get all kinds of work going around neighborhood.

B

Okay, all right well, thank you for your thoughts, but is there a reason not to be hungry, because.

C

That stop sign. Well, so people apply for that. So I agree that it will stop sorry. It makes sense.

C

um Right there people lie through that at 30 miles an hour and go with stuff. At my.

C

Office spread my look at that stop sign all day, scary. We can look at the third one yeah.

B

Thank you. Thank you all right. Thank you all very much.