City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire School Board, 7 Sep 2023

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From YouTube: 9.6.2023 School Board Special Meeting

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9.6.2023 School Board Special Meeting

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The sixth meeting of the portsmouth school board: um it's a special meeting.

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That we are calling to review um robert's rules and how we conduct our business.

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um So joining us tonight are some experts who are going to help us put together roughly in.

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um We have some morrell, who is a attorney and we have kathleen dwyer who's been our.

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School department attorney for many years recently retired it but willing to help us out when we need.

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Some guidance and then we have the infamous bob sullivan, a city attorney for over 40 years. Who is.

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Not retired but helping out the city when we feed so welcome. We appreciate you all being here and.

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I think you can all help us guide us and teach us how to act in accordance with the robin at school.

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um Okay, so that's the call to order. We need to have a roll call, addie bliss barrett here.

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Okay, can we stand for the pledge of allegiance.

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states.

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I can't follow him.

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um So this is a public meeting and we're here to talk about the opportunity, supporters and.

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It's a said, the right to nola and we all should have gotten the ground rules that.

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Are composed for adoption to try to help you conduct in the united states.

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Implementing our intimates, since it says, and.

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um We were not in enough time to get through it all to get you out of here sections.

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In general, discussion and political fabric and.

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Yes, I did come on. We should have some discussion review about meetings.

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Heart rate in preparation for that uh jasmine susan, looked at some video about.

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um Private school board meetings this year and uh and we came to realize it's probably.

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A good idea to have this discussion yeah, the the plain fact of it is that it means.

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We're not running particularly smoothly in what we saw. There were members stepping over.

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Each other- and it wasn't a smooth quarterly conduct of physics. Now.

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Which were elected officials and you were elected to do an incredibly important thing.

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um Spent about 60 million dollars a year or taxpayer money, and you do it. It's.

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To educate taxpayer and whether it's children.

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um I think most parents could think that the suggesting their children, confident instruments.

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But in this case the successity of children is probably the most important thing in their.

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Lives to see if that happens, and we all know you know better than anybody- that education is really.

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The key and success of those children, so this is a big time- important stuff involved, really alignment.

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Creates a duty, then you know right to conduct business in a business-like manner.

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And uh a lot of what we saw on the video was not frankly.

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So this led to the idea that probably true in the morning.

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Might be a good topic for the training session, and the reasons for that, of course, is that.

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By definition, roberts rules of water are a way to bring control to the uncontrolled situation in.

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To create a situation where you're not important.

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Very expensive business is conducted in a nation, clear, concise, deliberate, orderly demand.

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So that's that's what this is all about. Now,.

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As you see from the agenda, the uh gar starting off with the discussion of.

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Province, who was awarded himself um but uh to focus too much rules of water might be.

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Is to lose sight of the forest for the trees. The rules of order themselves are.

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Just the means to an end, the end is to conduct a quarterly business like we.

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Need the rules it's difficult to even describing or what they are, as I am sitting here right now,.

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We have an 800 page roberts rules of liberty, we have a 200 page, robert is ordered. We have two.

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More, it was like a couple hundred page rules of order and yeah. We have a page we'll see.

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So even defining what it is, we're going to be talking about it's a little bit spot and effort.

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And- and uh I would suggest you repeatedly throughout the night that what's important.

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Is not about the children's order what's important is they have purpose, which is.

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To conduct, if you work business, you need business like ordering it and keeping that purpose in mind.

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Provides almost all the answers to almost all the questions that will come up um these things.

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My mind the most important thing about robert's rules of the critical one thing.

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You've got to remember at all times is that a chair is in charge of the meeting.

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uh Your chair, it's clayburgh, runs these meetings and it is everyone's duty in order to accomplish.

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That purpose of having an orderly business like meeting, basically what nancy claiberg says she.

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There are always that her decisions can be questions.

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But she's the only one that makes rules during the course of the meeting that directs the.

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Flow of the discussion or determines when debates begin and when debates again.

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Is that uh internal chair nancy is in charge and everyone that the duty, reliable surgery.

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He uh so to try to.

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Tell me a way to approach robert schulz with me tonight. I skimmed to skim all of his.

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Various versions I have here and pretty much immediately ruled out the 800 page version.

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Because I wasn't gonna, read it and here's why I'm not going to be? It is tediously.

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D

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This is an example of what you can find if you mean disabled.

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Effect on subsequent debate in methods of voting.

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It's consideration of a referred question is resumed in the assembly on the same day on which.

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It was referred any members who have exhausted their right to debate parents. That is those who.

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Have already spoken twice on the question that day, unless the assembly has a special rule for writing.

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Otherwise, any parents cannot speak about it again that day without permission of the assembly.

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Aside uh in in in and have pretty significant experience doing this, I uh had a student's job.

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And uh by my broadcast med, I I sat next to these city manager and the mayor at somewhere between.

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800 and a thousand meetings of the city council- oh those meetings by your life, went very well even in.

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The early years with a state council was pretty rough and thumb much more refined, [laughter].

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The way I realized, I think I realized students number one. I think I know how the.

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School department school board got in the situation. That attempted- and that is this.

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Of all the city departments, police fire, it is people who were interested in education, teaches.

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It is just the culture or the kind of the nature of the people who engage in that business.

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To want to hear all sides of every issue to want to debate things in a very.

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Round fashion and then to talk about them a little more, it's the nature of people.

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Are interested in education? Well, that's pretty good.

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You can follow, I think, administratively, within a school. For example, the pattern.

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um It is and there's a reason why educators think that way.

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However, education in general, which leads to that result and on any school board meeting.

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Are not the same thing, and uh it is, I believe, the expansion of that.

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Day-To-Day educator approach to things into the school board contest, which has led to.

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Things kind of get a little out of control in uh our role; models to restore.

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So with that thought in mind, it's again we're back to these roberts rules of order. What I.

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Did is I looked them all over over the indexes agendas. I thought about an indexes and tables.

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Of contents- and I and I thought about well what, in this moment, documentation is really really.

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Important to the school board in order to spend that 60 million dollars a year on that important.

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Purpose, I mean passionate, make the citizens proud and- uh and so I kind of came up with my own.

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Most important rules sort of this roberts, and- uh and here they are, as I said, the single most.

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Important absolute critical move is that the chair runs with me, and this gives her the ability to.

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Keep bait from going beyond reasonable bounds uh to make sure that.

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Members are civil to each other, make sure that the members stick to comments which are domains.

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The issue in front of you not refer back some other problem. It will reject some future problems.

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The jack and the wallace using her authority in that position, single emotions.

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Now so with that in mind, the sort of uh the the guidelines.

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Are that the entire school bullet falls in the chair? In particular, that's pretty much.

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These simple things number one: every meeting begins with a written agenda which is in place.

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And, except under extraordinary celebrities, it would be inappropriate at any meeting.

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To try to go beyond the bounds of the agenda and the uh the reason for that is a citizens who want.

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To know what it is going to happen at a meeting where they read the agenda too, and they should.

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Be able to rely on their written agenda to know whether or not they are interested in being at a.

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School board meeting watching the school board meeting, communicating with any of you or yeah.

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If you depart from the agenda, you deprive those citizens of that.

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It's not it's like not the appropriate way to deal with the expenditure, money or issues.

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um So every meeting gets much journey, journalistic items that.

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Will be discussed that night and nothing else can be disgusting. Let's talk about the giant.

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So yeah will lead you to the electron on an item by item basis.

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And with respect to each item, uh she will limit your discussion to comments which are.

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Germane meaning delayed to that of gendered and if, if anyone strays beyond those guide rails,.

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It is her duty and certainly her authority to cut off and require members to stick to.

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Just item comments that are demanded, anybody who knows anywhere else can be and should be shut up.

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So the generator comes up. Chair leads you to it. The.

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There are two variations of what can happen next.

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In the zoning board, for example, um they have developed a practice at the moment.

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Of having a certain amount of discussion from the agenda item before anyone makes a motion.

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They're more common practice is that no one says anything until someone who makes emotion and.

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The motion is setting. uh You are three to select either of those options which you think is better.

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um Maybe you should do that by means of adopting you know um the most common one. As I said.

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That motion gets made before the discussion once she gets made in second. Second,.

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So you have an agenda motion gets made. The chair opens the discussion to the discussion.

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Occurs this way people only speak when the chair recognizes.

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And you get the chair's attention by raising you again and she determines who should speak next.

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At the city council in general, on the order of recognizing speakers and giving them the.

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Floor is the order in which stands for a raise. Sometimes it will slip some curly, that's the.

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Plan, that's pretty good thing, wow shared size, he speaks next and that's the end of the story.

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So you go around the table discussing this motion as many times as the chair feels is appropriate.

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To people practice might be too loud any given school board member to speak twice.

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In order to keep the business moving, you know.

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Special but number rule number one. It is whatever nancy claver accessories in terms of responses now,.

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At the end of that debate, uh then there's a vote uh in virtually every situation, except still is.

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Specified by rule or otherwise a majority vote carries the motion, the precise wording and emotion.

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Is what gets authorized by that opponent? So we need to be careful and make emotions.

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That's what's going to happen on something different emotionally passes,.

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um It is a very good idea, I think, to uh to request assistance in making complicated emotions.

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um These systems can come from share herself or anybody who she might designate for that.

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Purpose there are a couple: people could help put together a complicated motion to make sure they.

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Accomplishes its real purpose at the city council, the city attorney. It is simply whoever the chair.

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Views, as the parliamentarian parliamentarian has not vote is simply they non-board member.

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Advisor to me, chair now, but when you get to the difficult things, uh I just think it's an.

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Advisory go slow with emotions carefully, get help if you need it and then make sure that the vote.

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That which occurs is uh is is actually on the issue that maker the motion wants to address.

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So no, I have an agenda. It's good motion. You can second to that motion.

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The reason why motions require a second is to prevent a single member of hijacking. They.

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By making motions that uh none of the other members are willing to second consequences.

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And in order to have business be interested in him.

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By that second, if not chair makes the.

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Determination, there's been no second, but an excited.

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So now I have an agenda motion discussion.

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And then the vote she across to the vote or it takes the record of the vote. These are.

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All important records to keep their required by the right to come on and then once that.

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Vote is taken motion to pass. It don't pass, they can pass. That's the action of the board.

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Now this brings us together the next really crew, a rule of order content. That is this.

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In order for businesses to be conducted in new orleans fashion, it has to only go in one direction.

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Voted on they're decided, then he moved the next issue. You can't come back redevate.

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The thing that's already been debated once now, so in general, a core concept.

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Of robert's rules throughout his business goes in one direction and doesn't come out.

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Here are two major exceptions. The successes do come up fairly frequently because we're all.

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Human, these issues complicated, and sometimes you just need to look. You know at something.

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The two major exceptions to that business goes in one direction or two major attacks are number one.

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At any time, um by a super majority, you can suspend the rules and allow something to be.

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Taken again now to the super majority, the tools that are exploding- that's the protection from.

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Council with our ordinated getting out of control by going back.

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Or addressing issues that have, you know already been resolved.

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You can only go backwards under this exception within super majority. Computer installment and.

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It's that requirement for the extra vote that that provides the protection from the meeting.

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Falling into disarray, that's the first exception now. The second major exception is reconsideration.

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But just like suspanishing the rules there are protections built in to a motion for.

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Reconsideration, so that they cannot be abused and cannot violate that rule of business laws.

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In one dimension and the uh the protections that are built into emotional reconsideration college.

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Number one that motion can only be made by a person who voted with the prevailing side.

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On the emotions that they're seeing have reconsidered, it seems obvious that you.

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Think about it, a person who lost the vote can continually make it motions to reconsider. Then.

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This idea of going ahead and not back.

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What if the motion calls for a person important with the surveillance side.

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Well, that's that's pretty good evidence that the reconsideration is not being requested.

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For certain frivolous or argumentative read a requested for a good reason, couldn't a person.

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That's asking for is somebody that voted the way it's already gone. You know they asked for.

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Consideration built-in protection now the other critical thing to remember about emotions through.

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Reconsideration and emotions are suspended. All of this emotions suspend the rules, as I.

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Said requires the two thirds folks motion to reconsiderate to reconsider, which could only.

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Be made under those limited editions that I just talked about is a simple majority vote, so that.

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Inappropriate circumstance should not required, so it makes somebody who has the authority to.

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Make that motion to be consider makes it it gets seconded because and then the vote is and.

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And the effect of that reconsideration is to just bring the thing that was voted upon.

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Back in front of you again, it doesn't change earlier, but it allows you to talk about this.

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um Perhaps both different, but the fact is, it's just bring it back for those purposes. It doesn't.

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Actually change the mode so so, especially the rules of reconsideration kind of important.

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Things why and really the main exceptions to this idea that all your business goes in one direction.

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So now we've had an agenda. Okay motion: we've had a discussion at a boat.

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Who may or may not have had any consideration or.

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Suspension to allow the battery package for you and what we have done is.

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We have a situation whereby he was aboard and back and once you were back.

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That action holds for the remainder of your turn and investigations until they nest. Until then,.

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The summer was, after the next election.

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And and it would, the chair would rule out of more.

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Any effort to contradict that decision because it's her job to see that these.

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Things go business-like, portable fashion, that they look forward now backwards and that the matter.

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Stays driven to the issues it can be discussed and uh it is everyone's duty.

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Yeah, there is a way in which.

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Directions or orders of the chair, it can be questioned by, for example, and then that is this.

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If some school board member pushes to question the decision made by the chair, the way that that.

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Is done and it's they get the attention of the chair and make a motion to appeal a room.

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Now, in order for that motion, go anywhere like pretty much everything else and for the same.

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Reason there needs to be a second, and this is to prevent one school board. Member again from.

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Hijacking the meeting without any support from any of the school board, but that process can.

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Be followed can be followed on any ruling that the chair makes and it's a civil majority of motion. If.

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The motion is made and seconded then the council school board decision supplants the decision which.

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Then cheers so it's a pretty meaningful manner in which school, what numbers uh can question.

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Decisions made by the chair in her running philippines.

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Real important about all this is.

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It's cool blood now approach this difficult government to do these important things and.

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Spend all that money. If you approach and those things with the right attic, which is to be.

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Cooperative and civil to each other and try to get business done in the best interest of them.

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School children and the citizens of the city, if you want to have that attitude.

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I know from a lot of past experience, yeah.

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If anybody starts getting into tense, parliamentary base process has broken it's broken by then.

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Already so I advice to try to contemplate it among all these girls cooperative attitude.

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The other school board, members and confection- we can share to get this business done. Anything in.

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A cooperative man and uh if people do that, then you'll probably never hear very much.

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Actually, it just wasn't the situation that existed in the past.

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And this brings me to my last bit of advice, which is, I would suggest that everybody take.

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Some time and watch a city council not for the substance of what the council is.

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Dealing with, but for the process, the council is following because this city comes when, let's see.

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A pretty good job- I never did you see that they embody that last little thing that I said about.

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Dave and civil with each other and they are constructed with each other and they uh have.

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The right attitude to to serve the citizens, the way the citizens expected and- uh and it's.

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It makes for um an environment where the city's.

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Business can be accomplished in a uh in a really television meaningful.

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Orderly fashion in that is what I think. Frankly, we all all the citizens in the city to try to that is.

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The question is.

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In that time, from tumble groups at one point now, you've had people who.

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Passionately care about this community um can have differences of opinion about what is in.

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The best interests of the community as a whole, and so how.

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You talk about the talk about the experiences with councils.

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Where people have been able to funnel that passion, even when they disagree.

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uh How it's been funneled in a way that maintains you, know the decorum of the citizens.

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Well, that grows change. Let me say in a way that it's possible.

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I mean there was a time here where you know on friday or saturday night was. You know.

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And that will be suitable and.

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Think that people at all is achievement was having a respect for the chair and the chair.

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Having respect for the process and trying to do the thing which isn't business like.

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Importantly and serious and not argumentative meaninglessly um importance, so so I and I think.

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Job that's seen it last night. That was the patients where he had to exercise a little.

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Authority in order to give people on it straight now in this case, in that case, it was actually.

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The citizen, not another council member and, uh like generally speaking, uh he's it's got the.

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Spell there he just treats everybody with respect and they and they respect that, and I don't know.

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Lisa and then kerry and liz.

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My question is in 30 seconds: you said you have the two-pager. Is it possible that you could share.

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That with the group I mean, I had one that I think was like literally an old high school.

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I always somehow was still in my basement yeah, but it's literally like what do you do? How do.

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You do it this way. If you have a person that you like that would be helpful to have. You did.

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Sorry yeah should we just leave a copy with somebody yeah.

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Thank you harry. Thank you, kerry. Let's just transfer your feedback, one of the things.

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Becomes a slippery slope as we, the school board, has very defined roles.

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And then the school or meetings often have informational presentations that.

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Have no action associated with them and I think that's part of where.

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It becomes like if it's the middle school, it becomes. uh Let's talk about all of these things.

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At the middle school, or so it is on the agenda, but I I guess I'm just curious how that falls in.

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Number two: what really should happen for a record keeping purposes, especially something else is that.

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In reports such as something happened in the middle school that doesn't call for.

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Any specific action by the school board, you should still accept that in places.

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Just so that the records.

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Thank you, terry yep. um I have a couple photo specific questions. um I'm wondering.

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I've noticed that well, let's see so they're sort of related, but.

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um So you said you mentioned that the clerk should report the vote and by.

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That do you mean that they should report this. The number of years, extensions for a few days.

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The vote is individual by a number okay, and that should be included absolutely.

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Okay, but is that only that's only with a roll call booth right? Because? Because after all, the the chair could say all in favor.

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So, that's not right in that case. Okay, anybody, sorry, anybody! Anybody can ask.

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For a roll call, though, right so like if the chair says that everybody say yay or nay, if.

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I wanted a roll call. I could say that is, that is the city council and you could have that too.

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Little school um so related to that, I'm wondering I'm intrigued by.

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um The order in which we are called for local and I'm wondering if there's any, because it's.

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Always the same, and I'm wondering is that, does it have to be this anymore every time and is.

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Our seating related to that number, I think sometimes it would be helpful to say that.

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You were free to create your own rules as long as they don't violate.

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State law or some some greater power. You could run your meetings following rules that you want.

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To follow, and that would be 150. you could dictate by rule how about such the discussion.

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Oh, I think, there's one more clarifying question when you said that the um any.

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Rule of the shared committee question I assume when that rotates this. The chair does not vote.

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That uh and there's a field chair that we're going to the chair, I think chair can.

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In order to be able to have your job report.

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Things, if I could just say I remember one school board, we had, we did change, we voted first. It was.

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So, in other words, liz might vote burst on one vote and then fifth would vote for a second. You.

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Know you go around, so you can create your own rule about that. We also had when we could sit.

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Wherever we wanted, we, we put the name tags on the table. When you came in, you took your.

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Name, tag and you sat where you wanted, except the chair of the vice chair superintendent,.

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Nathan, you know they've been sit in the same seat, so you know you can do whatever you want.

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Okay, thank you, pip liz. um I gotta. I have a couple questions so.

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There's a point in our agenda or the superintendent update, and so that's sort of when.

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The conversation kind of opens up a bit, you know, and it's not necessarily on the agenda with the.

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Superintendent update is unless it's in the memo, um so I think that's some usually sometimes during.

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The discussion we're in sidebar stuff starts coming up um before things get off the rails.

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um You know even when we get into policy discussions, um so I guess I do some wondering.

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During that time, you're saying don't make a motion. You can't make a motion if it's not on the agenda.

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If we're always going to discussing something, that's important that the superintendent brought.

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Up like let's say, uh let's start an example, uh we need to put more money towards the bus.

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Let's say: okay, something like that: we needed a lot of funding whatever.

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He kind of puts it on the agenda that there's a supposing issue. Whatever is that at that time,.

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Even though it's on the agenda, though we could make it, could we make an emotion or make it a.

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Motion to suspend the rules and within the motion to suspend the rules, we'd have to talk about what.

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The motion is that we are trying to put forth right like how does that process plan. Emotions.

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The allotting thoughts about things and then somebody said then the chair would.

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Ask you to address your question. You know I want so we could bring up an item that calls.

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For the financial money that was raised in the superintendency report, but not otherwise.

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And you know what we're all talking about: yeah.

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All right, it wouldn't be voting on the emotional center rules. Indentities, okay,.

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um And then there's also a section of the agenda that calls for new business. So we're asking the.

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Chair to put something on the agenda and the chair is not putting something on the agenda or.

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I obviously went through the motions of of changing a.

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Overriding the chair through the um appealing the ruling right, but is there a way underneath.

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We have a section on the agenda that says new business. Is there a time in that section.

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I mean isn't that section the time where we'd say hey for the next meeting, I would.

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Really like to talk about whatever came up earlier or something like would that be the.

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Appropriate time to say, hey, that's for the next meeting, I'm going to practice on the agenda. Okay,.

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So that would be your appropriate time to say that yeah.

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We talked about how the agenda controlled the discussion uh and that prevents under.

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The business example, something that should have been on the agenda wasn't.

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Being discussed, how long would be appropriate to say uh at the next meeting on the agenda.

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All right, okay and then um my last question is, I guess you know with nancy being the chair. I guess.

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I'm wondering with city council, I mean obviously when you're running for city council, you kind of.

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Watch a lot of city council meetings, but they also have the attorney there to ask questions.

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So I guess I'm wondering how are you know especially future chairs, our future board.

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Members is there a plan in place to implement teaching them, even if the brief robert's rules.

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Are going over it or having an attorney there like? Where does the attorney come in to to help.

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um The chair of the city council meeting is it like under the like? Does it is.

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You sit right next to the chair right, so can you does the chair actually talk to.

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You, but is it always on the record or did the chair turn to you and say you know this is.

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The next step- I'm thinking you know this- is how you do this yeah during a meeting.

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Okay- and so I guess for going forward, you know, obviously the city council has the.

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Attorney there you're saying that there would be an attorney there to help one, or is it like.

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What is going to be the best way to sort of go about this? If there's rules of order, questions.

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Well, I don't know if there's any plan in place right now to deal with precisely risk. However,.

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Systems obligations like legal advice, as you needed and.

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Is that um for a while here for the next few meetings thought that it would be helpful if.

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You have an attorney um sitting through the meetings with you and kathleen's retirement.

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um That would either be myself or bob um to sit with you and just see.

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Get the better hang of it, you know see what the common issues are. If there's something that needs.

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Research um to be able to report back that we can't always answer off the top of our heads.

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And so um um we do intend to do that and I think it's common or it's been common practice with you.

A

After a re-election, new board coming in new city council coming in new zoning,.

A

Board there are trainings for those new award members. You know to start.

A

Out and then just your basic promise rules basic right to know, um yeah.

A

um So now I'm a little bit confused because I know.

A

um I understand clearly what you're saying is that you stick to the agenda move in one direction.

A

And a lot of these rules are designed so that one member can, you know sabotage me so I'm confused.

A

Under this new business piece, uh if a member can go on public record and state and agenda item.

A

That the rest of the board hasn't discussed by the advancement agenda item that there's a majority.

A

Agreement, that's that's sticky right. I guess I'm really because now it's on public record that.

A

We're committed to an agenda item that there's been no discussion around and that that's happened.

A

And so so, my question is: what how how do you respond? How do you do that properly.

A

Do you see what I'm saying you can have a rule? You can develop your own.

C

As to uh when and how a group of member can put an item on youtube,.

C

It would be appropriate for a school board member to say I wish and then.

C

That school board member would tell me just follow whatever.

C

um And uh otherwise it's a decision of sharing. I have a follow-up question to that. So that's.

A

I'm really confused with that, but I'm trying um my follow-up question is going.

A

Back to something that I think about exactly carrier we're getting in, it is.

A

In my very uncle very short term, and it would be on the school board versus I've watched a lot of.

A

Council meetings, um I think the difference on a school board is. There is a lot of very.

A

Difference of opinion to privileged experience, different educational perspectives coming into.

A

The discussion points and- and I I do want to know like how do you move the discussions forward.

A

When um the opinions can be on both sides is, it is, is the only matter there? Any member can.

A

Say I'd like to move the question is that the best process for professional.

A

S, how do you then go forward? You should treat the numbers and I'd like to move.

C

The question as being a requesting the chair from both chair may or may not: okay,.

A

Oh so um I have a follow-up to margo's before I get to my mind, so bob I think there's a at least.

B

For me, there's a little confusion in the room of what you've said. It seems contradictory. So I heard.

A

You say in the beginning, if new business, that a member can make a motion to suspend the rules to.

A

Add something to agenda in in real time and if they get a second and they get a majority vote.

A

Then that can be opened up for discussion. Did I misunderstand that I'll? Take it a second and.

A

They get a two-third okay. So that's what marco I think was asking is like that can happen in real.

A

Time can be subject to sticky if someone choose to use that cover and over throughout I mean.

A

um And and so then that leads me to so we used to have a section on our agenda. It's called for.

A

This very purpose, we didn't have it when we when I first came on the board, but we added it because of.

A

Request it used to be called future agenda items. It was just a moment for the chair to check in.

A

At the end of the meeting of, if you have future items you would like to add, you can email them to.

A

Me, or are there things that people feel that you know they want to put on it, wasn't that you were.

A

Adding them right, then it was okay. This is going to be in discussion with the next meeting with.

A

Superintendent and chairs that got removed off the agenda, but it didn't seem to get communicated out.

A

To the board that it was removed, and why so I'm just wondering like is that just that the chairs.

A

Leisure or the superintendent, since they make the agenda to remove things without informing.

A

The board, or because I think that created some confusion of like well. Where do I now ask for.

A

um When it wasn't communicated as like being released, so I'm just wondering like.

A

Can things be removed from nintendo without the communication, or is it absolutely okay.

A

Precision, although would seem to be a good practice.

A

Something following my decorum here asking to be recognized. I think some.

A

Of your rules that are drafted are going to help define those issues for you and.

A

You're going to have to decide how you want to handle those matters.

A

So it just had a company, I mean in all fairness. It was during the transition of a brand new.

A

Administration, so I just was curious, so I had two other quick questions. One is very.

A

Best or if we want to put this training in place for newly elected board members, it's.

A

Great we're having it now, but then the board and then you've got new board members. That.

A

Don't have the knowledge, do we do that through a policy or just through the rules of operations.

A

In our rules of operations- and I think you can just ask the legal department.

A

And so, um if you want to have a train name, we will plan to just do it. But the reason I ask is because.

A

It's not in writing somewhere, as part of the procedure runs. The chair can turn over and then.

A

I think we lose that because I know when we first came in there used to be things that were done.

A

In the past that helped and then so I'm just wondering, can you put it in rules of.

A

Operations that a training like that would be done and for every new board that people.

A

um Years have done training for the board members coming on.

A

A lot of stuff was paid and stayed available on the website, but.

A

A

This is my last question. um Yes, his first amazing that, since this reading is being recorded, will be.

C

Available very selfless, most famously do is tell every new member watch the maintenance.

A

um Last question is um so we have in our rules for operation around interruptions.

A

But I'm I know that there is rules that state law that there's the one time you can interrupt.

A

um Wardron or or I'm sorry chair is when you're asking for a column like recess. So if a meeting.

A

Gets unruly or it has been somewhat hijacked, as you guys call it. How? How would you appropriately.

A

Go by that obviously, having the chair addressed you first in a respectful manner, but what is.

A

The language that would be used for that type of question the way it's been happening soon.

C

Five minute recessed food to a member of the school board could ask the children.

C

Yes and share reviews, excellent beautiful decision give a second thank you. Okay,.

A

Foreign um regarding the new agenda items, I thought it was clear to everyone on the school.

A

Board that if you had an agenda item, you wanted to bring up for the next meeting that you presented.

A

It tomorrow, in the before I'm pre-meeting with zach, which you all know, is the monday before.

A

The tuesday of our meeting, so in other words our meeting, is tuesday september 12th. We had.

A

A preheating sac on monday, we did have a request from liz for two agenda items. She followed the.

A

Rules we considered the agenda items and I'll get back to her with this meeting was yesterday.

A

Actually because monday was a holiday, um so I will get back to her about how we decided to.

A

Him but her two requests for agenda items, so I thought that was very clear to this board that.

A

If you want an item on the agenda, that's what we do. You get a commando and me before I pre-leading.

A

Zach, we discuss it with zach and then we get back to the board member. That's been our procedure for.

A

New agenda items we used to have the future agenda items on the agenda and what was happening was and.

A

This goes way back for me that the list was this long and we never got to it. You know it was just.

A

Too long and we never got to it and we said we're not addressing these items, so why are we keeping.

A

It on the agenda, so if you wanted an agenda item on the agenda, please follow that procedure.

A

I think it's been working, okay and I thought everybody understood that that's what it was so.

A

um All right, carrie was next, no lisa was next and then kerry. I'm going back in time for minutes. I.

A

Had a question about something you were saying to liz a little [ __ ]! Oh! So I'm sorry about that.

A

I find it a little puzzling sometimes when we're getting multiple, conflicting legal opinions in real time. During our meetings and.

A

I guess- and this may be mistaken, but I guess my understanding was. We would have a chain of command.

A

For those questions as well, where they would go through our chair and vice chair and then be.

A

Directed to the attorney, who represents the board, and then that would be it'll, be your opinion and.

B

I think I'm finding it sometimes a little bit like we have gotten bogged down, sometimes with multiple.

A

Conversations with different attorneys- and I mean society degree, but it's not the same thing and I.

A

Think it's a lot to take in. So I guess I'm just wondering if you've had any guidance or else in.

A

Here from right now, do we have like a way to just have the final, clear, decisive? This is the decision.

A

This is the reason that this is the decision, so that we don't have to debate that, because I.

A

Just find it puzzling that somebody's just sort of sitting there trying to keep up with the foreign.

C

And therefore, the answer to your question is susan makes the determination in every case who answers.

C

One, so if we have to leave in question, would we use the same process that we use for agenda items.

B

Or is there another process, because I just would like to have more transparency around how that's.

D

Happening like I'm, not a lawyer, I don't need to know the entire. You know chapter in verse.

A

Of every rsa, but it would just give help people to know this legal question was raised. This was the.

A

Answer this is why this is the answer. Maybe so we don't have to do it? It depends on the.

C

Intensity of the push and okay there and uh the more intense, the more significant the more you.

C

Should follow this for us but um lesser items, uh the exact call the legal problem with the.

C

Question that you've asked them to ask, and then I had one other question on what you said: nancy.

A

Because I think we do understand that processor, I understood the process for agenda items, but is.

A

There anything that would prevent us from getting if the chair and the superintendent are willing to.

A

Do that just a rundown of these were the requests we got. These were the things we put on the agenda.

A

This is why these were the priorities, and these other things you know whatever maybe they're, on.

A

The future discussion list or something because I think that's sometimes for everything things.

A

Break down like we don't always know what other people ask for or what's happening when we start.

A

To get into discussions and stuff that wasn't on the agenda, does that make any sense? I think that.

A

That is a discussion for you to move fair right. So in developing your rules, you're going to address.

A

Some of these issues and flush them out- I think we have- is a draft [music] and just brush out.

A

And if you have these, you know consistent issues. We should probably address a lot of those, but if.

A

There's you know during the meeting if there's a legal question, you know the civil attorneys.

A

Who's ever present would be. The person can answer that in the question. If there's a.

A

Systemic question that you want answered down the road we can do that you know offline, but.

A

We would ask that all questions go through the chair or through never been many times.

A

Okay, then kerry was next when follows so so I think sometimes and part of what has happened.

A

And so, for instance, there was an agenda item that I had requested at the last meeting that.

A

I think was just an oversight like the school board association delegated and savannah. I sort.

A

Of bring that in and then it goes haywire and then there's lots of other things. Rod.

A

um But I think part of I so I think part of the struggle and if I'm, if I have heard correctly, the.

A

City council members have an agenda, I they can add something to the agenda for every isn't it.

A

One term council member city council has considered different okay, the relatively.

D

um And that was one of the rules that the council members would be limited. One night of agenda or.

D

C

I think it's a susan has now said about three times. That is the kind of thing that you can.

C

Control with your own, obviously, the school board members are going to have as much.

C

Freedom as they can placing questions like at the same time, trying to you, know, conduct your.

C

Team meetings or business-like manner and those two might look like it's a good idea.

A

um Do we need a lot of two hours and we're really kind of running behind.

A

um So if you can go to questions so we can get to the writing. All along is important.

A

Talking to mr secretary.

A

Okay, okay, we'll do that and then we can come back to the.

A

Other questions that people have yeah: okay um for the city councilors to present to the clerk the items that they want on the agenda.

A

There's a certainly don't mind just so to speak, german, you need to get items instead,.

A

There needs to be noticed in public on it. These important issues you're going.

A

To discuss so to just grow them on at the last minute. Is it going to be appropriate, so I sort.

A

Of did this tower point that um I figured I'd print it out. Hopefully, I printed out enough.

A

um It's very very basic, it's very basic, um so I'm gonna go through the basic part of it.

A

um We're going to go through that pretty quick in a sort.

A

Of preface my comments similar to bob's about this.

A

The answers to your questions about right to know are really laid out in about.

A

Purpose of the stretch- and you know the theater- they originate in the new hampshire constitution,.

A

um That um government should be open. It's in your public body um and.

A

There are constitution and under the statute of 91a the right to number on, as we call it.

A

um All your business should be open to the public, with very few exceptions.

A

So when you're thinking about.

A

Can this happen, should we do this? Is this you know proper under the right.

A

To know law that the first question they should be asking yourself is.

A

Is this going to serve the purpose of the right to no one and are we serving our constituents.

A

Citizens, if we have closed business or um are doing this as that's not public, that's not.

A

Reported that isn't accessible to the public. So um a lot of questions come up about public meetings.

A

And when might I run a battle of the rule, so public meeting? I think simply we all understand.

A

This one forum of your board is present when you're present and discussing business of recovery.

A

um And um you're, either just discussing it or you're also acting.

A

um Under your power support, none of that business should be conducted behind closed doors unless.

A

You're under one of the very limited exceptions to move around legal advice, personnel matter.

A

Etc, go into the non-public session in public session, so everyone knows.

A

um Where you are and what you're doing and what's your important business is.

A

What's happened recently and with technology and social media is that it gets very confusing.

A

About when do we have a form, please look and remy males from around text messages.

A

um How does that all fit, and you know really the law? Has it.

A

Been updated clearly to address those uh issues, so the rule of thumb again is.

A

In private, whether you know you're definitely about the right to know why not before.

A

And definitely run afoul if you're have you know the quorum part of text message.

A

Are there ways around it? Yes, but it's a violation of the well also to try to circumvent.

A

So I think historically, there have been cases where you know. Cindy councils might have said: okay.

A

We'll have two city councilors in a room who will discuss a certain issue and then we'll have two.

A

More over here and two worlds here, um so we won't have a quorum, so we'll be okay, um but um the law.

A

Is recognizes that that's you know a specific way of you know intentionally trying to circumvent the.

A

Purpose behind this law, which is to have an open public discussion of the public business because.

A

What you address bob was saved is so important. You know to all of the citizens and enforcement, then.

A

um To all of the parents and the kids for their education, so the same applies really to email. So.

A

Text messages you shouldn't be saying: okay, there's only three of us on this email team, so we can talk.

A

About what's on the agenda of the next meeting amongst ourselves, because this is not important.

A

But if you're doing it specifically you're trying to circumvent the right.

A

To no longer, we shouldn't be doing it, and it's not a good look, even if.

A

Maybe within sports would be in violation of the law. It's not a good one to do a constituents.

A

Such as the citizens who are going to feel like they're, being locked out um and they're.

A

Being deprived of their ability to watch the public business hear how it's discussed.

A

There's a lot of questions that have come up in in talking to the number of you about.

A

Community and outside of the feelings not necessarily about.

A

Something on the agenda, but she's sharing information, sharing, informational items.

A

um Again, if there's something, that's really germane to what your business is.

A

It should be part of your public detection. You know who public should know that? Okay.

A

As part of this issue, we have several articles that we refer to and we're going to talk about.

A

Those at the meeting and not just have two or three members, or even all nine of you looking.

A

At these articles and then never disclosing that to the public, there shouldn't be any secrets.

A

um In the course of your doing their business so.

A

Also, what's happening in technology is that you know we all have our phones right here right.

A

And we can all get our email and we can all chat. So we can all get on social.

A

um But if you're texting each other during a meeting, we're violating the right to know law.

A

Because you're talking about the public business that you're not talking about it in public.

A

You shouldn't be doing that, so it may be something that you want to address in your rules that when.

A

You come in, you know, maybe you need two phones in case the family emergency, but you shouldn't.

A

Be on your mind and the public shouldn't be wondering what you're doing on your phone.

A

You know they're up there talking, but they're actually talking about it on their text messages.

A

And um in search appropriate- and it's not just um for the public business, but you also have to.

A

Think about the violations of the right to know what you have some serious counselors.

A

um To the city as a course, which is why it's it's an illegal compartment, it's a business.

A

To provide you with this type of legal advice, to try to steer you keep you on.

A

The right course to avoid any challenges, any litigation to anything that you've done.

A

A

um There's also a lot of questions, and we actually have this issue come up just a couple months ago.

A

um Chance, social meetings, so um it was brought to the legal department attention.

A

That a number of city councilors um had gone to the city after student council meeting.

A

um And they'll, you know, were a total of six and uh restaurants, um so the question was: was there.

A

Quorum and were they discussing city business? Have they gathered for the purpose of discussing in.

A

City, business- and it was, um you, know, determined that it was a chance encountered. um They hadn't.

A

All planned to meet each other there, even if they had it, would have been okay as long as they would.

A

Do it with the intention of discussing business city business outside of the public domain.

A

That said, it's not a good book and it makes it really hard to defend um to say: okay, they were.

A

Together, they weren't exactly all at the same table. They might have been at the same table for.

A

You know five minutes just say hello goodbye, but you know business was disgusting, a pencil it. It's.

A

Really murky and people get upset um and it's hard to get back. So it's it's just a better practice.

A

Not to have that, but if somebody's having a fun day and they're all going to be a birthday party.

A

It's a social gallery as you just have to not talk. This is um and um the discipline and try not to.

A

People concerned about what their actions are, because, as long as your public.

A

Service um elected officials, you have sort of a higher obligation to follow the law and.

A

um Behave in a way that gives the public confidence that you're doing a job and.

A

You're doing it in their impartial way and there's no way that they can see it.

A

um What's happening so I know there have been questions in the past. um Currently questions.

A

You know what, if we one person sends an email, and um but it's with a blind susie on the email.

A

That is done. um It's not challenging, even in the municipal association would say you.

A

Know: that's not a violation, the right to go wrong because there's no reply.

A

Coming back, there's no discussion amongst the whole group of whatever the email topic was.

A

It's also should be done, you know very rarely, and only you know if there's a.

A

Need to present something important um because again it's a bad look.

A

um We're going to have a forum of members communicating, even if it's with a blind.

A

um But a blind copy to everybody um without the reply it should be done very rarely um and very.

A

Specific circumstances.

A

A

I think I've covered most of this. You know email responses to constituents.

A

um Those are not a violation of the right to know to discuss something with a citizen.

A

um However, they may become discoverable as part of the public records request.

A

Or if there were ever litigation as part of discovering so just think about that.

A

And you know think about uh what you're saying in a.

A

Written document and completely requested or as.

A

So the other um question that I know has come from.

A

um With a number of you about, it is whether board members can speak at public.

A

So, um of course, in new hampshire, there's really no good and wrong to give you the answer to that.

A

um Here and there and preparations of the meeting when I have time I've started to.

A

Do some of the research- and there are some cases out there from all over the country on.

A

um In various settings you know most boards city councils have some sort of public comment.

A

um As part of their meetings and um it's intended for the public.

A

To come in and say what they want to say about, whatever it should and obviously you would have.

A

Seen in mississippi council meeting, you said it doesn't have to be a germane to any topic.

A

That's been um discussed or that's on your agenda, but it's it's it's for the purposes of the public.

A

um Board members, you, as elected officials, have you know you have no open here? You have your process.

A

Of getting things on your agenda and discussing them as board members and as representatives.

A

So um I think also.

A

Dealing with and struggling with in terms of setting your agenda and then items on your agenda.

A

um But I think um what I understand is part of your agenda does have a place for announcements.

A

um Which would be announced that, it's not you know plenty of individual issues.

A

But as you go through developing your goals, you should be thinking about.

A

What you want to discuss, what is the issue that you want to talk about? What is an issue that you.

A

Want in the public domain, as opposed to, I want to just say what I want to say in public health.

A

Because, again, you're here as a board, you have you know parliamentary procedures to have an.

A

Order of business, an obligation public body, the public meeting to have a notice of the meeting.

A

It's an agenda to be noticed so that the public knows what they're going to talk about to see. If.

A

They're interested you know, maybe if they knew that you know subject, v was going to come up at.

A

The end of the meeting- it's not on the agenda, but if they knew they would have come to a meeting and.

A

And voice their opinions or their own comments so again that sort of circles back to the beginning.

A

It's been, the whole purpose of this is to stay um as a public body discussing the public's business.

A

Being publicly and doing it in an orderly, orderly fashion um and finally, I thought.

A

This issue about public comment: sometimes it comes up um with our landing sports.

A

um Where they're sitting in a quasi judicial role, they're making decisions about whether someone.

A

Should have been there so whether there should be the subdivision and they're supposed to exercise.

A

um The judicial juror standard in terms of it being unbiased and if they have.

A

A conflict of interest: they should not be participating in the topic.

A

So in my mind, I've circled that back to this public comment and she was saying.

A

If there's something on the agenda, if you're operating in sort of a judicial or capacity.

A

And you have a personal interest or statement so much so that you wanted to comment and covered.

A

Comment, you probably shouldn't be participating in your board of discussion of the matter.

A

There are several rules for disqualifying members, particularly those that um you know it was a.

A

Judicial function, we were discussing them last night with a new version of our ethics ordinance.

A

um That they're still working on, but their state laws and state guidelines about.

A

Boards and commissions, who are working not as a legislative or policy that.

A

When you're in the position of acting in it, was a judicially.

A

But I think and that's they should disqualify yourself. If you have a personal state, we should.

A

Be disclosing that um and recusing yourself, I think, you're in a quasi-judicial function.

A

It's different if you're in a legislative function, if you're making rules to passing.

A

Ordinances talking about policy we're going to come, that's all right! Why you agree.

A

That's how they get elected because you have definite opinions and they conceived notions and.

A

Points of view that you want to put out there and try to persuade others to follow you so.

A

That, in that legislative discussion, that's new, as members of the board would have the opportunity.

A

To discuss your opinions as board members, when you have the opportunity to discuss an issue.

A

Make a motion and do your business there, so um all of that um hopefully was not too convoluted or.

A

Circular but I wanted to tie those things in that the robert rules and the whole process of putting.

A

Together this agenda and the rules of the board are all intended to really meet the obligations.

A

Of that and constitutional provision, which is the government, should be open and the business of the.

A

Publicity done an important fashion in a related people are giving notice of what's going to happen.

A

um And they have an opportunity to participating and to watch you.

A

All delivery and then decide next time in the mailbox. If they want you back, you know that's.

A

In the ends, how they'll make a decision after watching and now you do the public's distance.

A

Okay, we have some questions, margo, lisa liz. My question is related to when you.

A

Get emails from a constituents, so I don't know exactly how they know when sitting house.

A

I've always been very uncomfortable with that. It's my understanding is if four different.

A

Members respond to the same thing that technically constitute so, and I hear what you're saying is be.

A

Very careful with what you put in writing two institutions, so is there, should the practice be.

A

We don't engage other than saying thank you for your. That's generally, what the.

A

City council has been interception in the agenda to its own correspondence.

A

Believe that most human city councilors, having conversations with their constituents.

A

Individually, obviously, as you know, that's part of their fifth, um but to have it all.

A

Responding to the same email through problematic if it doesn't come down.

B

A

I wanted to clarify something that you said.

A

um So if somebody feels that they need to address something.

A

They would refuse themselves from any further discussion.

B

My guess my question is that only apply to that meeting or does that.

A

Applied a future discussion and how does that apply to voting.

A

Yeah, I don't understand really what businesses would be or board members I'm just trying to.

D

Clarify what the rule would be there in your context, since I'm not as familiar with the.

A

Business that you would generally have when you're done in terms of whether legislative, not a lot of.

A

um It was a tradition, um but your opportunity to speak this board members.

A

You know during your meeting public comment is intended for the public that you are not.

A

The school board game because you're now an elected in this position.

A

um It gets murkier when there's a specific subject, if you just feel so passionate about and that you.

A

Know- or you have some personal statement that you want to present to the board.

A

To speak about, um you have to be concerned about you know what the purpose is.

A

Why would you mean to do that.

A

You know, I don't even know, I agree with you. I just.

D

Want to know what happens now, if somebody makes that choice.

A

Yeah: okay, if there was then a discussion of an issue coming down, you know.

A

That you're going to make the decision about down the road um they may have to reduce themselves.

A

Depending on whether, and so um was a judicial decision or legislative solution, but again.

A

That's that's why the roberts rolls the right to know and your rules are supported together.

A

A

Robertson's philosophy of one.

A

In the draft tools, there are someone who said hi um that are based on the opportunities and.

A

um One of the things is that people shouldn't be getting on and off at the board during a.

A

Meeting and that can only be done with the permission of the chair, so in addition to having.

A

That, hopefully, like the board to speak on issues and um during your agenda.

A

It disrupts your meeting to have somebody to get up.

A

And go to sleep as a member of the public or to leave without permission, for any other reasons.

A

So it's kind of they all fit together comparative slaves, and this is.

A

Talked about and arms and then ultimately not voted on them and I'm just trying to.

A

Understand like what's this sort of mechanism, for it's forcing these ideas when they're not.

A

Passing I guess like, hopefully they do so maybe we can table that for later, but.

A

In the past, well on a swan song, it's a good one.

A

Discuss this issue internally and try to address some of the issues towards had.

D

um The city council has their own.

A

So you quickly came to this board. You need some operating rules, incorporate.

A

Some of those important robert schools address.

A

Some other things going on to help you have a more important business and, as.

A

Bob said um it rests on the shoulder and chair to enforce these movies, with your thought by.

A

Conducting yourselves in these meetings in a civil and business sliding, in addition,.

A

That's not happening chair um devices.

A

To make sure that the communities are gone, orderly.

A

Especially manners to get your your gender, which was and, as bob said, the work that you're doing is.

A

So important, you don't want important issues. You know I'm dead, tired from watching you or so that.

A

Goes but that's funny, but if there's some issue that I care about in school to write, I don't want.

A

My spelling word talking about important issues after I go to bed because of those leaves so.

A

You have to think about.

A

And serve and what they have the right to expect.

A

Okay, so I'm keep seeing up liz and I think brian and kerry, okay.

A

um Luckily, most of my questions have been answered, but um I do. I guess I just want to get a little more clarification.

A

um The refusal of ourselves separate from the public comment issue, but, um given that many of us.

A

Have kids in the school system? You know a lot of the other kids in the school system. Obviously our.

A

Own kids are there, um and so I guess I'm wondering what's the line there. I think I understand what.

A

You're, saying is the policy and the legislative business it really doesn't matter. But when there's.

A

Some sort of judicial matter, that's what it would be, an issue yeah. So let's say something involving.

A

A child comes up with a disciplinary matter. I think that's what it has to go to church.

A

So we've got a direct personal interests should recruit yourself from that discussion or anything.

A

um Because you have bias.

A

um That would be in that requires a judicial decisions in a position.

A

Of the decided from the teacher or signature in their employment involved.

A

Yeah, so did you say child has the initiative teacher or, if my child just has that teacher.

A

That's I'm just trying to figure out where the line is.

B

Your child was a friend of my childhood. Probably would abuse myself, but if it's someone I just.

A

Happen to know right, you know where, where is that line? That sort of, maybe, is that something.

A

We decided it's important, it's a personal decision. um We should disclose whatever your decision is.

A

But generally you're it's a juror standard. So if you're going to be put this in terms.

A

um They're going to be asked another questions by the judge, and that is do.

A

You know any of the rules, the parties and you have a connection to any little liars. There's.

A

Some investigates: are you going to gain financially um by the outcome of this case.

A

All of those types of questions should be going through your mind, so maybe you know you know.

A

All the t-shirts there so that doesn't quite cross-line, but your child came.

A

Home and said guess what happened? I saw johnny and whatever and teacher smith now you've got.

A

We've judged it, you know, you know some facts involved in the case and now you're across.

A

The lineup lactose being set those aside and listen to the information that comes to you.

A

um With an unbiased fear, yeah, you know for the same fatiguez, probably.

A

Once there to be cautious- and you know to allow them to either do the process.

A

Oh yes, thank you, um so I just want to be clear. You found a report ruling. That's.

A

That prevented school board members and city council members rule that they are.

B

Not members of the public and they can participants again, um it goes nationwide.

A

To either and whether this particular water commission board is you know, can you share.

A

That case, anyone that I've worked with the board. Okay, as you mentioned, that there's all.

B

Kind of legal memos, but in my time here we're pushing two years now and yet you receive a.

A

Legal memo have asked for a legal memo on this issue, specifically because it came up.

A

And it actually came up because I stood up and spoke at public comment and I just pulled out.

A

My notes from that meeting in my public comment, I first spoke about emails from parents. I was.

A

Concerned about the website and how emails from parents came in the disclosures that.

A

Were online website where their parents really knew that um their information that they were.

A

Disclosing from the board was actually getting printed and published online at that time now,.

A

It's not, but at the time it was so. I brought up that concern. I also brought a conservative.

A

Due process with extra curriculars, because in my understanding it was a great area of the law, and I.

A

Also spoke about how it was challenging to bring these issues up in policy committee at the time.

A

That I got up into a republican, it was common and it had been common that city council members had.

A

Actually gotten up in meetings and spoke at public comment on issues that were important to them. So I.

A

Guess I'm a little bit concerned that this idea has changed and that you're saying that there's.

A

This case out there that says: I'm not a member of the public. So if I you know another example.

A

Would be like margot shared out an email one time regarding her thoughts on, I think it was school.

A

Safety right there's a couple articles of recent articles that were written about school safety.

A

That would be sharing her opinion on an issue so you're saying it's not appropriate for me.

A

To get up and stand and do public comment at the podium, but it's appropriate for me to send a cc.

A

Blind season email to everybody saying here this is my opinion of these issues, because.

A

I can't get it on the agenda, so there's only 10 questions yeah, so I guess it doesn't make sense.

A

Because it is a complicated issue, yeah- and I guess I guess maybe to cut it short and make it and make.

A

This meeting shorter, it would be great if the legal department could give a legal, a memoir that.

A

Would lay out the actual large or the cases that you're saying and what those cases actually say.

A

um Because I think a legal legal memo would make it clear to everybody it'd.

A

Be in writing it'd be something that we could enroll with in the future and want.

A

To create a discrepancy about this issue of accused, because I think just like pip.

A

Said what I was going to say is you know my kid goes to the school anything. That's.

A

Being done at dondero directly relates to my pin, I'm not going to refuse myself.

A

It's only five types of.

A

Used all right, so I mean, if I'm getting out there and I'm saying hey fyi in my opinion, that this.

A

Is rare, there's a lot of extracurriculars? We need to watch about how we're going about dealing with.

A

This extra curricular issue and this recent suspension of all these kids and you know I.

A

Thought it was a real legal issue and a concern. There was no other way for me to express it and.

A

I saw this as an avenue because I've seen it done plenty of times before a city council. I.

B

Got up and did it, and so I think there needs to be clarity here in writing- interest in your.

A

Because if you have an issue like that, that you want to discuss should go on the agenda. But when.

B

I started getting put on the agenda. There's issues of it not. There needs to be an avenue.

A

There, and so I guess what I'm concerned about, is I'd really like to see what these cases are saying.

A

And like to see and know and understand and have report understand what the law is, because I've.

A

Said very clearly that if this is made a rule and enforce and there's something that comes up like.

A

If there's something that I feel like as a member of the public, I want to speak on and it becomes an.

A

Issue where I can't speak on it on the issue, I'm going to challenge it. I think it's very fair and.

A

I don't think the board should be taking that right away from each other to be able to speak.

A

On issues that are important to them, because we've gotten plenty of emails from other board.

A

Members, hey there's, there's this information or here's what I think on this issue, and so I really.

A

I'm a bit concerned that we're saying: oh, we can send ytc emails about how.

A

We feel about an issue, but we can't get a podium. Well, that's what it seems like so.

A

um You know it's possible to send out emails to the group that they shouldn't be emails about the.

A

Business of the board- maybe it's they were going to have to change the meeting date or something.

A

The received rule that's happening, it shouldn't be anything in regards to a substance that we're.

A

Meeting that should be done between the agenda and mostly the rules when you discuss them, you should.

A

Provide for the process that will allow the agenda to be developed such that you're, not.

A

Going to feel like we need to stand on it, and decisions will be addressed as part of.

A

The agenda that we can also talk more about it yeah, and I guess my concern too, would be like.

A

If I wanted to say, I know, there's like what, if I was remembering girl scouts right announcements,.

B

It wouldn't really be appropriate, I don't think it'd be like the girls roads or the boy scouts.

B

Are doing xyz, you know, maybe there's a conflict with the schools whatever. That would be my time.

A

To hit up the comment, invite the school board to come to boy scouts or girl scouts or whatever.

A

I think it's a little bit concerned. I think you can address that in your rules and border.

A

Which we'd like to just say? Yes, let's move on? Thank you liz. The next one is brian yeah. I just.

D

Wanted to mention, I think it's totally important for me. Yes, I've seen public comment before.

D

um On school board, but I've always felt uncomfortable. It's not a common practice.

D

Even on a council either, um I think there's plenty of avenues for us to address things.

D

And that allow the public to have that comment to themselves. That's the way I feel about it and.

D

um I think we should make these things that I think we should try to codify these in a way.

D

That we actually vote on them because before I think it's been hello, what's a consensus.

D

um But if we're going to put a stake in the ground and nancy wants nancy needs to enforce we're all.

D

Going to follow, you know, with the exception of the you know, spent rules, and I think we should.

D

Really vote on them that way we we've put in there and said jordy says these: are the rules.

D

To be asking questions.

A

Okay, next we have terry, oh, I was so. I think one of the issues that comes up in put together this, like.

A

Process or request for information or more formal things, so we have a lot of discussions and then.

A

It's like well exactly. I would really like to see a report on special ed and there's like five.

A

Requests is there a piece of? Is there a piece of formalizing that as a because then what happens is.

A

He doesn't get my special ed report on any agendas in the.

A

Next three months and then I'm after him in a meeting when it's not on the agenda.

A

Are you following me 100, so I think it's again, it sounds like a topic for setting an agenda.

A

And providing information to your fellow board members, the information. May I ask in a different.

A

Way to describe it so so, for instance, it I want to report on special ed, and this is not a true thing.

A

I have no reports I need, but, but if I'm like, I really like to see more on this. I think some of us.

A

Believe feeling that suggestion and some of us, the feeling that's a formal ask for information.

A

And so I guess what I'm as we move to robert's rules, I'm gonna ask it or codify that I'm asking.

A

How that formal request would happen? Well, I can dive into that like saying how the city, okay, it.

A

Does address that sometimes in the context of requesting a report back from staff? Okay,.

A

On a particular topic um or requesting a legal opinion report back from the legal department.

A

So um that may leave something new under your name in the agenda and you would be.

A

Able to say talk about some particular issue or nothing. You would like additional information.

A

And then there is that is that voted on? If I'm, the only one that wants to report.

B

And eight people don't see a difference like are those voted on by council.

A

Sometime by consensus and vegetative, it's like yes, okay, you might say something if you want to.

A

Report on special ed, I think you made the request to the chair and vice chair nine days before our.

A

Meeting we sit down with that. We talked about that special ed request: the kingdom board member.

A

And we we decide whether it goes on the agenda or not, and we get back to you with that answer.

A

That's how that's how I can make an operation. I hear that I think it more comes up in.

A

Conversation we're talking about the budget and special ed, and I'm like. I would really like.

B

This by neighborhood or something like that, but we never move forward to.

A

Does everyone want that, or does I mean it's, it's not it's not necessarily a brand new thing. It's.

B

Something that's coming out of discussion and some of us think it's reached consensus and some of us.

B

It kathleen do you want to comment on that just kind of strikes, in the second hand, talking about.

A

And then it goes back to bob said you didn't even have to have an.

A

Agenda and sometimes when you start in on your agenda- and this is where some of.

A

Things have gone sideways here because there's nine passionate people who care about education.

A

Here and so you want information on a topic which, of course, just the agenda item out into.

A

Something bigger than in terms of item so then get asked is specific s say: numbers of kids.

A

Or specific learning, because disciplines I mean that's, you know some of the stuff really gets.

A

Unread and maybe has moved by the field from what the original agenda and that and the staff.

A

And I know you've tried different ways to manage this. It really.

A

So you have to think of what's the business we're trying to lean forward based on an.

A

Agenda, yes, a lot of information might be very interesting enough, but where does it means.

A

Getting your entering your agendas.

D

D

um Just because of the experience of the council has done in the past, it.

D

Goes way back to something they carry and then um visible from youtube. We.

D

We tend to do a decent amount of informational presentations that do not have action at the.

D

End of them, it's almost like I'll just go on like a book reports. uh I don't know that.

D

I'm curious about the experience of the council. To what extent is that you know that like well.

D

Hey uh we're just gonna, have peter rice get up tonight and be like hey peter. What's going on.

D

In public works uh or uh or hey, kelly, harper is up tonight and uh kelly. Tell us about human resources.

D

um My impression is that it tends to be much more action driven and then what is the information.

D

The staff can provide about actions, but there's not just kind of here's. Some stuff, hey did you.

D

Ever want to know about sewers, let's talk about sewers, and, uh and so I don't mean you know.

D

I'm respectful of the desire, but I think my impression is.

D

The council is much more driven by here's, an action item. Here's the information you need.

D

Around that accident tonight, in order to come to a decision around things that you need to decide.

D

And I'm just thinking about my own work and knowing what I bring before and whether or.

D

Not I need to be thoughtful about that in terms of that blog statement about moving the actions.

D

Well, in order to move and stuff forward, you actually have to have an action influence.

D

um And so I wonder about those two statements had and whether or not sometimes the design of the.

D

Agenda is awesome and my contribution to maybe it needs to be more streamlined towards to action.

A

Just throw out there, the city council has four sessions where they are less formal.

A

They are scared toward a very specific topic um and specific presenters come in.

A

So um it's almost like a training session for work session, with my staff.

A

um Or, or whoever to come in and and make a presentation you want to work, you want to.

A

Have a comment- and you want to engage without an issue that you're kind of love and then.

A

Generally, the city council is sitting there as a policy thing where the city.

A

And disadvenders they're as the manager of the staff and represent us down to.

A

Carry out the policy so there's not. They generally talk about all these.

A

You know juicy in-depth items in their committees. You know the government is.

A

20 25 30., so the governance community has already discussed. You know this ordinance. Ethics ordinance.

A

Or parking traffic and statements talk about you know changing you know the taxi stands and.

A

Now it's coming in front of the council for the counselor to decide as a policy.

A

We're working what to enact what action to take and what direction the manager some of the sky.

A

A lot of times.

A

They'll live those actions, so I don't know if that helps, but it could maybe separate.

A

What you put on your agenda from what I might want to do this anymore.

A

Thank you. I had hope next and then so important question. I just want to.

A

Clarify what you're just saying so, are you saying that the school board can.

A

Schedule work sessions that would be public outside of the humanity media.

A

Because we run out of time, I just can't do the question. Oh, I thought that was no. No. I just was.

A

Following that for clarity there, so it's come up twice now. It came up and right to know in your.

A

Presentation so I just want to clarify, because um lisa was asking about different opinion of.

A

Attorneys uh say that chairs have spoken to the attorney's office. They have summoned information.

A

And come to a conclusion of how to operate in a meeting and then maybe information has come from.

A

Another attorney from an individual board member reaching out, um I think, sometimes the simulation.

A

Of that information is like the telephone game, it doesn't always come back in the way that it.

A

Was presented by the attorney's office, so I'm asking this question: um if we do not have an.

A

Attorney present we would go, it would be right by our operation. Orders the right to know to.

A

Go by what the chairs determined, based on their conversation with the attorneys, is that correct.

A

I believe that's what you're setting up your rules, you know and then, if you're, not out of.

A

The chair who's in charge of the meeting and in charge of the agenda. Okay, to sort of move.

A

On points of order, unless you have a specific parliamentarian constitution that helps me if.

A

There's a legal issue and really need to answer that before you can postpone whatever your issues.

A

Okay and then just lastly, um I just want to go back to what liz was talking about about having.

A

A memo because it seems to me if we are having an attorney present to help clarify that it would.

A

Be the benefit of the board to acknowledge the presence of that attorney, listen to their advice.

A

And opinion in that meeting- and that is on public record already noted in a note, so I don't see how.

A

An additional memo like would be needed to support what your attorney is presently sitting there and.

A

Saying to us, um so I'm just wondering is that a time that if someone is asking for an appeal or.

A

Asking for because we're talking about asking for agenda items that may not all be shared, can you.

A

Is that a time that a board member could just put forth to a motion to say don't feel like this? Is.

A

Needed or how? How would we handle a situation like that because it does seem like sometimes.

A

Like just frankly like the legal stuff gets in the way, because you know board, members need to just.

A

Doesn't come up in different ways.

A

The legal department, in order to get good legal advice to the board it can't be given yet tonight.

A

Yes, so even if at a board meeting you want to memo on something that is a.

A

Particular interest to you, but not to me into what the word discovered.

A

So, just because one person asks for a legal opinion needs to go through.

A

Okay, I just wanted to know where okay I'll go spontaneous. Thank you. Thank.

A

You brian mentioned to me that he ends of your age. You have to leave.

A

Okay, it's okay! All right! I just wanted.

A

Oh, I'm sorry, liz had her hands up and then we'll move on so.

B

um When the issue came up about the agenda item, I was told to meet with zach and.

A

um Nathan about this issue, I was bringing up about religion, um but I didn't feel like.

A

That was appropriate because it brought up the issue that I think even before, to show others.

A

You know have his other board numbers to know what other numbers we're requesting and what.

A

Sort of privilege they're getting to sort of speak to the speak, to the superintendent in the business.

A

Office and um and get that information, and I guess with that being said, how do I get legal advice.

A

Separately from legal departments- and I called legal department for legal advice.

B

I was given legal advice for myself, but then the legal department also contacted nancy and.

A

Then there was sort of a discussion that was had and what was related to me did it seem.

A

To sort of translate with what kathleen was saying, I think there was some confusion there.

A

um And so I guess I'm wondering like how do we get a memo like if we were obviously coming up.

A

With this issue of public comment and the concern for public comment- and you said that there's cases.

A

I would like to know I've done the research too. I mean it's now the time for us to make a motion to.

A

Request a legal problem because I mean again, you have to see any sort of legal amendment.

A

About anything so other than you know the powerpoint, so I guess I'm.

B

Concerned tonight is the right form, but I think it's a question that you've asked.

A

To have some guidance on this issue and I will discussively chair and put together some.

A

uh Response that can be shared with them with the rest of the board, or maybe we can hit song.

A

um Okay and then I know you mentioned me, but I think you said you would speak on about the issue of.

B

Like, if we're all requesting information on the agenda, but that information shared like what is.

B

I just I myself didn't feel it was appropriate. I know zach has requested to meet with us, but.

A

Appropriate for separate board members to be meeting with zach and nathan, who address.

A

Their issues, instead of actually bringing that to the public and having a motion and sort of.

A

Going about it that way, so I guess I'm a little bit concerned with that path and whether that's.

A

Appropriate or not appropriate, so I think that's probably going to be part of the rule, so I can.

A

Say that you know I have counselors in and out of my office all the time, but um we do.

A

C

So in the in that town, if it's a black person could possible and ask a question.

C

Other one guys public works direct across it doesn't cost some money.

C

So, towns and the way they resolve it is saying our questions.

C

Just now, gentlemen, that it's in the process that legal questions from the planning board.

C

To the legal department, uh it should not come from any region, but rather mustard.

C

Exactly that's able to decide.

C

I, like the planning towards the approach, I think it's organized. That's.

D

If you came to the chair to students from the signs since questions.

A

The attorneys indemnify as like it said in the beginning like if there was a lawsuit.

A

Or something so if I did something on the border, because I didn't get legal advice.

A

On it and I did it and then there's a lawsuit that took place, let's say.

A

To say is about chatting after meetings like.

A

Often after meetings meeting will adjourn and different board members will be sort of talking.

A

About issues but we're all sort of in the same product and I've kind of taken. The practice of.

A

Trying to get helen heck out of here, you know, excuse my friend uh and so that I'm not sort of.

A

Part of it, because I do respect the process and I do try to do what I can to respect the process so.

A

I guess I'm wondering how does you know, I mean obviously we're all people and human beings, but.

A

I'm a little bit concerned with that bit. You know or follow-up rushing the superintendent.

A

And I think you know, even in the hallway and kind of mentioned, something in passing, you know so how.

A

Do you deal with that and what's appropriate? I think you have to continue to remind yourself.

A

That this is a formal processing process and try to resist the human nature um to want to.

A

Chat individually about self-identity, um but you know you should resist that because the.

A

Process, it's not a group of conserving citizens. You know just chatting about issues here.

A

Okay, thank you, everyone, so kathleen up, you didn't get it. She was like taken some notes on.

A

Some of the concerns.

A

um So my suggestion would be online susan was talking about, is having a work session.

A

A

A

And then lily just got them yesterday.

A

Take a look and think about them and what would make your meanings smoother and.

A

Then schedule works. Do you want to schedule that now? Why do we do it right now, while we're.

A

All here, how does that sound? Why don't you schedule it before september 15.

A

Okay, well, I'm meeting in september 14th.

A

um So do you think we can do it in an hour before our meeting.

A

Research: okay,.

A

Suggestions, if you want to send suggestions, I mean look at them.

A

Okay, so if people, if board members, have suggestions, look at the look at these roles.

A

That we got for tonight, if you have suggestions with changes, additions deletions if you could.

A

Get it tomorrow and me by the end of this week, figure it's wednesday already it's a little much.

B

How about by monday september, 11th more time than that? Okay, how about bye.

B

The 13th wednesday, the 13th.

A

Just so we'll have time to sit down and work on it. Okay, so send us your suggestions, deletions edition.

A

um I just wanted to know. I heard that you guys have worked on these together.

A

um I wondered if there had been a sample that you got from somewhere.

A

To to guide these or if they're they're, because.

A

They don't seem to encompass a lot of the things that we talked about in our.

A

Norms- and so I'm wondering, are we going? Are we planning on having.

A

Warm sandals, or are we planning to combine those two actors? Okay,.

A

All right, thanks liz, I think, there's a difference between a rule and a norm.

A

Because you know it was like everybody be happy in the beginning, and the rule is like.

A

You know we're going to end at 10 o'clock, um so I I I'm a little bit concerned with.

A

That I guess I'm wondering how the city council created um their rules for city.

A

Council did they have a company, we need to discuss those rules and how does that.

A

A

The rules themselves.

C

Describe our rules and basically prevented any meeting on the spot.

C

With the two-thirds vote for automating notice, uncharted.

C

Quick uh procedural questions, because I've always been interested in that.

D

Work session format, it's new to me, not one that I've used in the previous place uh in.

D

Terms of our warning uh responsibilities stay the same reporting the meeting in advance having an.

D

Agenda of the agenda it's much more open-ended. uh In that end, you still do unnoticed and you.

A

Follow the notice requirements for a public meeting of a public body, and we would have.

A

A

Anticipated in itself yeah the the 25 public places where, by the way,.

C

The publishing your agenda can not actually required nearly universal.

C

Practice, ethnicity, very republican agenda: it's considered good government.

A

Our reports of communication policies or other matters requested for inclusion on.

A

The agenda shall be submitted to the office of the superintendent by 12 p.m. Noon on tuesday.

A

Prior to a board meeting is that that that's not correct? Yes, okay, that's wonderful application. It.

A

Should be coming into you right by what day, one day before the tuesday? Well, it ends up in the.

B

Previous week, so the month, the monday week before the casino and then you guys meet by.

A

With the super internet by when we lead on the monday, so that's why we need the recommendation.

A

Okay, and then is there.

A

Is there a response time that the board member would hear back yeah I mean we try to get back.

A

As soon as we can so that would be in here as well. Okay, I just wanted to understand correct to me. Yes,.

A

Okay, so we finished yes.

A

We need comments by 9 13 23. of the work section. No okay. These are suggestions by 9.

B

13., you can set a date for our work session. It does not have to be a good word, because.

A

At least my family.

A

It's a friday night we could meet at. Why is kathleen just kidding? Okay, uh should we try.

B

To do it in the week of the sick, the week of the 18th, which is a monday, a people free.

A

On monday, the 18th announcing meeting- oh so that's not good for you guys.

A

Can we do it thursday? The 14th.

B

There's a down there on pta meeting that night. I know we had talked about something yeah.

B

um Well, brian, uh when are you gone the entire week you're gonna be in germany? Oh wow,.

A

Can you zoom in without snow? You know, I mean.

B

Should we go to the 25th of september, which is a monday very, very late, yeah.

A

Oh well wednesday, the 27th.

A

A

Start the meeting.

A

From the party? Okay, that's fine! Yes, okay! Okay! So we'll do it in the 926.

B

Can we be thoughtful about how that goes on the agenda if it's just gonna be just.

A

That you know so that we're not running out of 10 30 11 o'clock in the morning.

A

A

B

And we'll pretend it's sunset.

A

Okay, all right! Well, if everybody could get the economist, maybe we can extend this to our 13th.

B

Generally then, since we're not going to do it till the 26th, so you board, members will have.

A

Until the 18th monday, the 18th to get your comments tomorrow and then okay, okay, so what.

B

Did it mean to be on the agenda for then, and you guys follow me through a draft or something yeah.

A

So I would stick with the wednesday: maybe why do we meet to the 18th? We came with the draft.

A

That we were supposed to read and know tonight. If, if we do it the 18th, then we don't give anything.

A

Back from you, we were supposed to be prepared this evening or leave that information anyway,.

A

All right, so, can you no you're right because your information sooner so that we could get a draft.

A

I'm gonna get the 13. okay, yes, 13 suggestions, additions, deletions whatever item 13th and the.

A

Works the works well, we're not calling it work, search and we're going to put it in the agenda.

A

The rules and regulations to approve on the 26th during our regular meeting outro.

A

A

Okay, thank you. Everyone do. We have a motion to adjourn. Tell them.

A

All in favor, thank you. Thank you. So much yeah.