City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Technical Advisory Committee, 10 May 2022

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From YouTube: 5.10.2022 Technical Advisory Committee Work Session

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5.10.2022 Technical Advisory Committee Work Session

A

All right we're recording, um called we're. The may 10th site plan review technical advisory committee.

B

Work session first item is 77 meredith way. A proposed subdivision.

A

Thank you peter uh good afternoon, chris mulligan from closing and associates uh on behalf of jeff.

C

And randy collins here to my right to my left, is brenda culvo from tiap the project engineer.

C

So what we've got here? Actually, I think it's sheet number three or five in your.

C

Package is a plan that is before the zba for variance next week. Actually.

C

Excuse me cheat 405 sheet 405. Thank you! So um what we were seeking relief for.

C

Or what we are seeking relief for is uh to um install a second dwelling on a single lot.

C

And a second driveway on a single lot um requires some relief from the zba and.

C

In consultation with some members of the planning department, they weren't really thrilled with that.

C

Design and thought that there were some opportunities that could uh sort of maximize.

C

Things for all people involved, so um nick was kind enough to kind of mock up a proposed sketch of.

C

Subdivision, which is number five of five in your sheet and that's what we're.

C

Here, for if we were to proceed with that.

C

Full-Blown subdivision, as opposed to variances for a second dwelling on a lot.

C

A couple of items with this that we wanted to sort of explore with you all here just to.

C

For the collins to be able to make a, you know, informed decision on which way to go.

C

After we break up, um this would require obviously planning board approval for the subdivision.

C

um It would require at least uh variance for frontage, as far as I can tell, and I don't believe.

C

I would need, or we would need additional variances besides a frontage variance but peter. If you have.

C

Any thoughts on that um right, the the second lot, would be deficient for frontage.

A

They both are. They both are yeah, oh yeah, because what is what we've got a lot? 75 a piece 75p. So.

C

Thank you so so we would need uh to go before the dba, no matter what, but we would. We would get.

C

um Frontage variances, if that were the direction we would go in um beyond that.

C

um Where it's a two lot subdivision and we're extending or we're proposing or the suggestion is.

C

We would extend the road um 80 feet to accommodate this second driveway. Would that need to go through.

C

Formal, uh a formal, tac application or would that proceed assuming we got the variances we needed.

C

Would that proceed directly to the planning board? I think we, it would be part of the subdivision.

A

Application so that would be attack yep, okay,.

C

um All right, then, with respect to the proposed design and again this was just kind of a.

C

Conceptual sketch that nick put together, um I think, jeff and randy's thoughts on this.

C

Would be to maybe invert the proposed houses so that the driveway, or so that the garages.

C

Are in the front and not in the rear, right jeff, um oh yeah that'd be correct. It's um the driveway.

A

Entrances, you know could be where they are, but I think the driveway would be a lot shorter.

C

So we would have less uh impervious surface yeah and all right, you know so a final design.

C

We think would probably kind of flip the dwellings around. Does anybody see any major issues with that.

A

So you said two different sorry, there are two different things said.

A

Are you saying flip the houses in the driveways? No, what he's saying is take the two-car garage.

B

From the backyard and put it in the front yard, I mean I have some concerns with it, but I trust.

B

You're going to be able to take the curse off the foundation and put off the garage being in.

B

Front of the house, which is not characteristic of the of any of the houses in the neighborhood by.

B

Putting you know double hung windows in the on the street-facing side of the garage right.

B

You just can't have a blank wall with two garage doors facing meredith way and be appropriate.

B

So I think if you scale it and detail it properly, it can work even because it's.

A

Like a more like a courtyard style, garage type of um pull in and well of course, textured paving.

B

Would be great, but I'm not saying that I'm saying the the the gable end of the garage. If you have a.

B

Pitched roof on it would have no less than three windows. Okay, right, yeah, double hung windows.

B

To match the house, so in other words, you don't want to be looking at garage doors, right, yeah or.

B

Even a blank wall: okay, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, two windows on the on the garage parking level and one.

B

In the attic a smaller window in the attic, I don't know how big of a volume you get, but whatever it.

B

Should really be integrated into the house, so it's not so apparent it's a garage sitting in front of.

B

The house, so that would require that to be like a what they call a courtyard garage type of.

A

Design, I think which is doable yeah yeah, I mean we have a point we've, I think, initially, on our.

A

The zba thing right- that was one of the plans that I had.

A

I'm confident you can pull that off. Yeah, okay,.

C

um All right so beyond that the um I guess, the the real potential showstopper, I guess.

C

Is you know the extension of the roadway that we would propose, um and um you know I guess we're.

C

Just looking, you know, this is a work session, so we're just looking for some feedback as to.

C

Whether or not um you know we're confident that tac would recommend um approval to the.

C

Planning board, if we were to propose you know an 80-foot extension of meredith way.

C

um With you know, a 16-foot width nick I'm assuming you took that width of what exists on the ground.

C

Right here today correct it's wider. The existing pavement is closer to 20.. Okay, maybe 19 to 20.

A

Yeah so I played flare and it wouldn't have that job, but we are comfortable with it.

A

As long as you're providing the turnaround for the specific truck to follow yeah, and so um as.

C

Far as the turnaround, what nick suggests here is um just an easement in one of the driveways, not a.

C

Hammerhead and actually like likely, it would be the other one. Okay, yeah.

C

Give you more space, yeah, okay, so either one would be fine. I mean that's, not a problem.

A

It just didn't need it.

B

I mean there's there's enough drainage issues out there you're dealing with without.

B

Putting unnecessary payment on it.

A

um Okay, so um so other areas, other things you just.

A

Should be aware of and they're going to come up, no matter which technology.

A

Is you're gonna need to extend the electricity, probably underground.

A

From that pole, that's shown on the plane. The bottom left more okay.

A

Because other than that you need to put, then you put additional poles. If you don't so that's going.

A

To happen, um we also don't have a water supply down there. For the second house, it's going to.

D

Happen, no matter what you build, you're going to need to do some sort of water service extension.

A

From the existing pipe from it's going to have to go through the park, because there's no water.

A

In there there's a one inch: copper right there right right, which is big enough for everyone else.

A

Okay, so that and that again that's going to happen, no matter what I'm just telling you right now so.

A

You heard it now yeah, um so I have questions about the deal. Okay, I do have a question about that.

A

If we were to go with the multi-family house, would that still be a requirement.

A

I haven't seen a layout for multiple house. um Well, the exist, I can tell you, I don't know if.

A

You guys know, but uh we built the house next door, it's a multi-family. We use the.

A

We use the existing one-inch copper off of that for that for that, so I assume it's.

D

Adequate enough for a multi-family if we were to go that route, it's based on.

C

That's really um appreciation, I'm sorry david. I see, I said, that's really all I.

A

See for issues with god? Okay! Thank you. um Nick in your email, you had mentioned.

C

um That the city would want to see us remove the briars and brambles that are along meredith way.

C

In front of the lot, the collins have some concerns that the neighborhood may not be in favor of that.

C

um Well, so I'm just: why don't we address that? Given it's our right away uh and if it's not meant.

B

To be, I mean, I I think peter rice or somebody up the food chain can make that decision. You're, gonna.

B

Obviously, remove half of it building the driveway. I see no personal reason why you wouldn't remove.

B

The rest of the invasive species there and would put something better in its place. But if people.

B

Are in love, what's there with? What's there, then it won't move okay, so you have any other questions.

A

So, are you suggesting that this city would uh but what replace? What's there or something you know.

A

Some put up some sort of, I mean it. I have no idea yeah. Okay, I mean you'd, be removing it for.

B

At least 60 percent of the run there with that that roadway yeah, so it's the remaining.

B

40 percent, what what we do there, I don't know I take it out and start over at it yeah I get.

B

There's a screening benefit, but it it's largely invasive species that are there right. No, no. We.

A

Understand that I know you have an argument with you, but we just expect some consternation amongst.

C

The neighbors um all right, I I don't think I have any other questions brother, do you have.

C

Any okay, I mean less there's more feedback. I just have a question about the rain gardens.

A

um Are you gonna provide more detail on that right? Okay, you'll, look at the drainage on the site and.

A

Make sure it's not gonna create a nuisance for the neighbors, that's the biggest thing.

A

Really, it's not a ton of drainage, but you don't want to create a budding properties or anything.

D

I would just make sure.

A

Which is much less expensive.

D

A

Any other comments or questions, so would you, if you don't know you're not going to make a decision.

A

Right now, but um if you go this route, you'd pull the variance application, uh the one that's pending.

A

Yes, we'll make that decision the next day or so. Thank you.

D

um So this water service- that's going to go out to pine street I take it is.

D

Once it's installed, where who's going to be responsible for underneath the thing there.

D

Underneath the park that would be on city property, it would okay.

D

So the shut off would be and then it'd be shut off and be in front of the house.

A

D

Everything clear activity clear to me yeah, I think so.

A

That's kind of what I was talking about there, oh back on the bringing the garage to the front.

A

Oh yeah yeah, um not necessarily a courtyard. Well, I have something like that: yeah, whatever.

B

That's what I was talking about in a number of ways. I is the general comment that you wanted.

A

To present the garage as it presents to the street should be more reflective of a house structure and.

A

Less of a garage structure right context and that'll help all and we're in agreement with.

B

All that, thank you, okay,.

B

Next, next on the agenda, we have 161 deer street their site plan.

B

B

C

All right good afternoon, my name is tom: ballen, I'm the developer for 161 deer, 88, maple, wood.

C

Once we get our dresses straight, I think you know everybody else on the team, so I will.

C

Turn it over to john. Thank you. Tom purchased this lot and there were some development plans.

D

It was part of the subdivision so on plan. The second page is that subdivision back in.

D

2015 2016: this was known as lot five of the dsa subdivision and it went through some approvals.

D

D

There were some plans that were developed as a part of the application.

D

Was asked to do like concept of.

D

Some of those plans were.

D

Kicked around there was an easement, a restrictive covenant placed on the railroad land behind the.

D

Lot that was part of what the fire developer did. So what that allows for what it allowed for was a.

D

Placement of the building closer to the property line in the back without having to worry about.

D

Area of windows and those kinds of requirements for buildings closer to property lines.

D

There's the existing conditions plan the demolition plan for right now, it's a one-story.

D

Cinder block building and so.

D

It has an eye business in the front left, gl rogers office front right. That building would be removed.

D

As well as on the pavement on the property, the next plan shows the replacement of that with a new.

D

This right here, four-story building with a penthouse.

D

D

There's a couple of things that in looking at how the building fits the.

D

Cd 5 requirements that there's a few things that are going to be.

D

In need of relief from the zoning ordinance few things that don't quite meet the zoning.

D

Ordinance so I guess I'll talk about those now the height of the building, so the ordinance allows.

D

Two to four stories with a penthouse which the penthouse adds two feet to the allowable height.

D

This building had previously.

D

And in this version, there's parking below street level and, as we know from.

D

Building across the street et cetera, it's proximity to the north mill farm, various.

D

Studies of the soils we'd like to put the floor of the garage.

D

At an elevation elevation, eight so that it stays out of the water table when we do that.

D

We have a requirement for the spacing to the first floor. Then. The first floor has to be.

D

12 feet: the other floors uh require a 10 foot floor to floor. So.

D

The penthouse is also 10 feet and that gets you to the ordinance 52 feet. 12 three tens and ten gets.

D

You 52 feet what we're proposing is 58 feet for a couple of reasons. We have the 12 foot first floor.

D

But then we would like to go 10 8 between floors, because 10 8 allows for a better coordination.

D

Of hvac equipment in the sandwich between the floors, it's just eight inches per floor.

D

So that just adds two feet. The other height, though, comes with the average grade.

D

Calculation, what we have is a situation where the corner of deer and maplewood is at elevation.

D

15 and then as it's as you go down deer street it slopes so that as you're.

D

Getting to the entrance, which is shown on the left side of the lot.

D

You would enter in that driveway that exists now to serve the bank.

D

Which is the property on the left, and the applicant also owns that property? Incidentally,.

D

It's at elevation 11.. So when you do the average grade plane, you come up with another.

D

Potentially, four to six feet or two to four feet of height, which puts a total at four to six feet.

D

Above what the 52 is allowed, the other. uh The next thing is the finished floor above sidewalk, so.

D

We're trying to we do match ada entrance and match the grade at the intersection with the entrance to.

D

The building, which is the curved portion at the street intersection that area, is a separate lobby.

D

At a separate elevation that elevation is too low when you have the basement floor at eight.

D

To accommodate the ceiling height so there'd be a dual stop elevator in there, but then the rest.

D

Of the building needs to have a first floor that is higher and that first floor elevation puts you.

D

More than 36 inches above the sidewalk elevation, so.

D

50 foot door spacing is another requirement that.

D

We are talking about 50 feet along deer street. We we meet that we intend to meet that.

D

Maple wood: you can talk about that. We would rather keep that door that we show on the north and.

D

The building, where it jogs there's a door there and we anticipate potentially a larger tenant, not.

D

Needing additional entrances- and it's also a less pedestrian travel street, so we're we're talking.

D

About that and looking for some feedback before door spacing the front yard is a five foot maximum.

D

So what what we're running into is that the.

D

Because the floor elevation is above the sidewalk. We start at that intersection.

D

And ramp up along deer street going to the west, we have a ramp, a landing, a ramp and.

D

Then we get to the floor elevation and have the two doors so putting the building back.

D

A little bit more than five feet allows us to have a suitably wide walkway and then.

D

Have the retaining wall that we would like to place on the property to hold back that height.

D

And we're also looking at some ways to maybe not need that which carla might talk about later.

D

The railroad requires a setback of 15.

D

Probably be asking for some relief to go closer, something like 10.. The previous building was.

D

Was proposed to be only five feet, taking advantage of that.

D

That's a different issue, I think, from the railroad setback requirement.

D

And then front lot build out.

D

I think we kind of meet the intent it's about 250 feet of building along the front, but.

D

Some of that wouldn't meet the definition, because it's set back too far.

D

From my understanding, the indent at the corner, the curve part.

D

Is set back too far; it doesn't meet the definition same thing with the area. That's in the north.

D

Along maplewood, it is building, you would see it from the street, but it's set back.

D

The parents can talk about the green areas there we're showing a brick sidewalk.

D

We're showing reconstructing parking spaces on deer street.

D

Putting in some bump out islands for landscaping there's four spaces there now.

D

So this would be producing, I mean, there's five spaces now. Excuse me reduce it to form, but I think.

D

Be interested there are some plans that show uh different configurations in the future, with your.

D

Stream, when you talk about that on the maplewood side, there's a shown a an area that accesses the.

D

Street there is a transformer there, an easement to eversource facility that has.

D

Switch gear and transformer will be adding a transformer they would like to have access to that.

D

Area so we're proposing to show a turnout off of maplewood over on that side. The next sheet.

D

Shows some thoughts on the landscaping- hey everybody, terence parker here. um So as you.

A

Know that's this. It's very narrow spaces that are left over for the the plant materials and there's.

A

A requirement that there's one tree street tree every 30 feet in this plan. If we cluster or use.

A

Columnar trees and then cluster them in the spaces that we have left over. We can get, we can exceed.

A

The requirement of one tree per 30 and linear feet, there's actually nine trees but plus two.

A

Small trees at the lobby at the corner there you can see. So all the green space is articulated here.

A

And in the back, the client wants to put some landscape materials back there and we, as you.

A

Probably realize we have to deal with some utility corridor there and this it's between.

A

10 and 13 feet or almost 14 feet, so there's room to do more columnar trees back there. There's.

A

Also the opportunity to screen the transformers as you're coming into the city from maplewood.

A

With some kind of sculpted fence, along the edge of the sidewalk as you approach the city from.

D

From the west and north with the graveyard on your right, so there's that opportunity there's.

A

Also another wall space on the southwest that the client may be interested in doing some kind of.

A

Thought relief or mural on that wall face as well.

A

So there's there's plenty of opportunity to do. Ground covers and edge plantings and there's.

A

Enough room in the parking space in abutting the parking spaces to actually get two trees.

D

In there, I think, just because there's a lot of soil volume in there so there's opportunity to get.

A

Street tree cover so I'll be glad to answer any questions if you, if you have them.

D

All right moving on the next sheet is utilities and, uh oh I'm sorry. The next year's parking plan.

D

So the uh parking level is accessed on the uh southwest corner of the building, so you come.

D

Up the drive aisle between this building uh drive out being between this and the bank and.

D

On the other adjacent lot, the ramp is on the top and turning in there's.

D

30 parking spaces and there are spaces labeled, a adjacent to those those are storage spaces. So.

D

Labeled as storage spaces, so you could store whatever there you. You may store a car, but.

D

Your object is going forward with the 30 spaces, which meets the ordinance requirement for parking.

D

The calculation is.

D

1.3 per unit 19 units is 25., uh and I don't think I mentioned it's going to be a 19 unit, residential.

D

Above first floor commercial and then you need four guest spaces, so 29 would be needed.

D

The next sheet shows the utilities and there's water existing setup. They did the deer street.

D

Reconstruction, so those services are shown we were anticipating the possibility of bringing the sewer.

D

Out, maplewood avenue and there'd be a grease trap in that drive, pull out on the north side.

D

And dave's shaking his head, so he can tell me why we can't do that later and.

D

It's going to be all electric, so there won't be a gas service.

D

Transformer, though, for the building electrical needs, the next slide.

D

It's just a rough grading plan sort of following the street elevations at this point and.

D

Do you know if anybody else has want to talk to this plan at all carla or.

E

I think all I would say there's a couple new faces, so I'm carla goodnight from cj, architects and.

E

The only thing I would say about this, as john mentioned, there is a previously approved.

E

Historic district commission certificate in place, but that is for a five-story different.

E

Building than we're looking at doing here, we're actually before the commission tomorrow night.

E

To do our first work session on a four-story building with a penthouse this building, we are.

E

Proposing that elevated sidewalk area, that john described, which is also part of the prior approval.

E

And that same treatment is can be seen on the fidelity building right across the street.

E

They've also elevated the sidewalk there um for guessing similar, similar restraints and.

E

So we're going to be looking to develop an architectural style.

E

That's reminiscent of the old train station that used to be on the on the lot and just.

E

Railway corridor architecture in general, but I think the you know significant difference here.

E

Is that we are dropping to a penthouse four stories in a penthouse, which is a significantly.

E

uh Less impactful um and then, as far as the front lot line build out goes. We are missing.

E

A pretty good chunk um around that transformer cluster in the corner, uh which creates a little.

E

Bit of a challenge, and then we also want to set back that entry corner, which also is another.

E

Subtraction and then we'll be looking to work closely with the hdc on developing the elevated.

E

Sidewalk and how that interacts with with the front lot line, so that's kind of where we're at.

E

At this point, I guess we don't have anything else, we're just looking for your comments here today.

A

All right, thank you, shanti the risk of sounding ignorant here, the uh the parking plan.

A

There's so there's 29 dwelling units is that right, 19, 19., okay, so yeah! It's a typo.

D

Yeah the note says 29, but then the calculator is 19.. Okay, so.

A

You have one per and your visitors there's another four and then your accessible spot.

A

Because you're only 25 so 26 would require two accessible, so one through twenty five. So you.

A

Have one is that the formula right yeah we need a second accessible here. You got that right, yeah.

C

And then, as far as like the radius of turning in like a spot number 30, for example,.

A

I suppose someone else will look at this, but he's got 23 feet. So that's all doable. It's not.

A

Too tight huh you have to get a van in there. It's about 30, yes, yeah, yeah, there's plenty.

D

Of backup space to the right, I think that one works out, yeah yeah, all right. Okay, thank you.

D

I just have a few questions, so I'm a little confused on the storage.

A

Are those are the a's? Are those parking spaces or not parking spaces?.

D

The all these a's, oh the aids, those are storage spaces, so they won't be. They won't be counted.

D

As parking spaces, but they're parking space but they're capable of storing a car, they put.

D

A bike: a motorcycle, a boat, oh yeah, a car yeah, but because they're tandem, you can't from an ownership.

C

Standpoint later you can't have you can't say you have 50 spots, because you can't strand.

C

Somebody's car behind somebody else's car, so they they're tandem with the unit yeah tandem parking.

A

All right, so if they're 10 markings, I don't know about the other rules, but that's fine.

D

If it's a storage area that you can store anything.

A

I I would have to look at that to see if that would be allowed yeah calling them.

B

Storage is a new term of art and I think you should just call them tandem parking.

D

Yeah think we've dealt with this on 175 market street before tandem parking was allowed.

E

And there's that space behind so and I think it was deeded with restrictions so we'll we'll check.

B

Allowed yeah it's allowed in the code to do tandem, yeah, yeah yeah. We also have a maximum.

D

Parking things, as I don't know, if that's going to be an issue that we have to address.

D

I don't know either I had a feeling, that's probably what this was about. Something like that.

D

Yeah, I think we got some feedback that we would need a conditional use permit to exceed.

B

The maximum yeah add it to your list. Right is the tandem parking require additional handicap spaces.

D

The witch that does having, if you consider them all to be parking spaces, but they have to be more.

B

Handicap, the ratio you could, I guess, if you wanted to get wildly creative well, if it depends on how.

B

You're looking at them, dude they're dedicated to each unit. So it's kind of unfair to do that.

A

But there's 19 units right yes, but there's more than 90 or is it more than 19. there's 22 tandem.

C

Spaces we're allocating some parting parking to commercial, even though it's not required.

D

I think the accessible spots were based off the required number, not the amount that were.

A

Voluntarily, given so, they would be okay, not adding additional accessible spots, because you're basing.

A

Off your required number of parking, no, it goes based on the total number of parking spaces.

A

Regardless of the requirements, but I I don't know that that question has ever come up with.

D

Or a tandem account, but I think because they're restricted there was there'd, be wiggle room in.

B

That because they're restricted to one owner, if you cross hatch them so that it's clear that's.

A

Not really a parking space, I think you just call them what they are, which is parking, but you start.

A

Striping out all those extra parts, you don't want them, we don't want combustible mulch in there.

B

We want them, you need stuff right, combustible gas tank, but we agree that spot number, fifteen.

C

Spot 15 could be another ada spot easily 15 yeah, yes, yeah. That makes sense.

D

Then another question is uh which where's your second exit from uh parking level uh out the.

E

There's a I'm sorry there's! No! I apologize there's no door drawn because we're pretty close to grade.

E

There at the back, yes, we'll be along the travel wing, or will it be uh along the back travel lane.

E

There that would be a second something to delineate. Yes, we'll get that door on there.

B

Yeah you're, not in a driveway right, I think, there's a sliver next to spot one. There.

E

Where you could have enough width to walk up there, we would just want to make sure it was.

D

Clearly, not locking up to traveling, yes,.

D

And then, on the first floor, understanding these architectural flames so.

D

It appears right now that neither exits.

E

I'm missing a door on that stairwell on the back side that one would go directly outside the rear.

A

One to the rear: yes, that would be directly down that stair and then straight out on that.

E

Into that side, yeah right now the door is showing going into the.

E

Maintenance, but it would have to be on the other side and that's a wall.

A

And you may need a mechanical utility space mm-hmm right or something absolutely from.

D

So, are you going on the other one to get into the garage? Yes,.

A

So you go around the bank on both sides to get in and go out right because the you can.

C

Driveway, that's right. Next to the building is too tight to turn into the garage. You can't do that.

A

So you don't need to come in from where the old driveway to gary's used to be go around.

A

The bank to come, you know yeah, because that is going to be left. That's going to have to turn.

A

Into angled parking for the bank yeah because they won't be able to get into those spaces.

B

That aisle is only 20 feet at its widest point. It narrows down.

A

You've got to have at least 22 23., so you have to enter on a lot three, the left or the left of that.

A

Lot: yeah yeah: what three is it actually lot? Three or is it the left of the building on level four.

A

We get the drive through right there for the back so after that, it's the proper line again.

A

Before you cross, two watts yeah those spots might yeah might just go to parallel.

D

Because kind of making them angle, doesn't you end up with three or something.

A

It may still got even more if you angle them yeah, so they might go to parallel, um but.

D

I think you'd have room if you went parallel to swing into the garage from that drive.

D

Certainly to a template if the spaces were on the right side against the new building.

A

Then yes, you'd have to morph in the parking spaces up against the new building and then.

A

You're still gonna exit you still gotta. You still have to go through to lot three to get out. Yeah.

B

That opening is only 16 feet wide right, there's a narrow entrance to.

B

Right into the exiting lane, as I assume in the garage.

C

Yes, so it's currently proposed this would be an entrance only between the two buildings.

C

The there is two-way traffic that currently the curb cut is on lot. Three. There is an.

C

Easement plan in place that would remove that and move the both lanes of travel onto lot. Four.

C

So lot four actually goes quite a bit beyond that drive through and it was the lot line.

C

On that side, if you go back to like slide, two was done so that lots four and five are clearly in the.

C

Historic district, but lot three is not so there's quite a bit of lot. Four extending over there.

C

But it's got travel east move that driveway keep going uh peter there. You go, rearrange.

A

All that parking yep there you go yeah and the um the lot three development plan.

D

uh Also uses that same driveway yeah and it put easements on.

D

Because the bank building is staying for a while yeah the bank building not much is going to.

C

Happen honestly, almost the entire pay of services surfaces under uh travel easement, so it's gonna.

A

You have to show how all that parking gets reconfigured to make that new driveway work.

D

Yeah and I guess there's a question of: do we.

D

The the big question there is do we show what's supposed to happen.

D

On lot, three, that shows that everything looks great or you're gonna have to do it now, because.

B

The show whatever's gonna work for you, otherwise you'll be waiting for a lot of three to get built.

B

You're, showing it right right or you're, building whatever you're, showing yeah yeah. I understand.

D

So be nice: if the log three was huh going somewhere, is it going somewhere? Is it approved.

D

A

Pat, are you all set okay? Yes,.

A

Yeah peter, uh I guess for terence um well those trees in the back of a big building like that.

A

On the north side, with a 10 foot fence or whatever it is, six defense on the other side, make it.

A

Do they not need light or circulation? Well, I think there's plenty of western. I mean it's. It's.

D

North west lake they've been on the banks out of my garage.

A

I mean, but it gets you. There are plenty of trees that are undestory trees in.

A

The forest like carpinus that grow in under canopies, okay, so um mushrooms, mushroom trees.

A

The columnar, carpinus mussel wood or hor hop horn main is a good tree to grow.

A

Urban soils and low light: okay, good good, so you're on you're on it yeah, okay,.

E

From norway there's a tree that grows in the dark, terrance knows where it is.

A

Inside the forest.

A

That driveway on maplewood dude. What do you expect to be.

A

The use of that, it's not a great setup where you either have to back in or back out of it.

A

And it's a busy spot on maple wood, a lot of traffic there with a signal.

C

If you go um go down a few slides or up a few slides or yeah, let's see no the other way. I'm.

C

Sorry yeah right there oh no jumped over it. There no keep going down. Sorry next, one.

C

See right there see that see the t transformer. That's a new transformer.

C

There's two things: eversource is doing back there. One is a new transformer for this building.

C

But they're also connecting the high voltage loop along the bats of.

C

Back of lots, 4 and 5 and then connecting over to the intersection of deer and bridge.

C

So that they can complete their high voltage loop, but they need to be able to pick to reach.

C

Over and pick that transformer out, they can't do it from the rail side.

D

So it could be that uh you know it would be.

C

We figured we figured, the police would be hiding there to arrest people to run.

D

Yeah, that's we'd like to donate. What's the police representative, the great spot revenue spark, I mean.

A

If it's concerned that it would be inappropriate to have it as a place for occasional deliveries,.

D

It would be left curb up and then, when somebody needs to go in there, they'd chalk, the yep, the.

A

Edge and that's probably okay, so eversource needs it. That's what you're saying yeah okay.

A

uh Four parking spaces on deer street: are they 22 feet long? I think the ends are 22 and then the.

D

Middles are 20.. Is that the I thought the ends were 22 and then the middle's got to be 12.. I'm.

A

Not sure that those bum bumps are actually going to work in physical space because of the turning.

A

Radiuses and the tractor trailers and everything yeah you have to look at all that yep and we got.

A

Yeah so yeah, because the right turns coming off of maple wood coming down there, that's gonna make it.

A

Hard for them and the alignment coming across from deer street doesn't line up all very well as it is.

A

And, like you mentioned, there is a plan in the future to eliminate the parking on both.

A

Sides there and add a travel lane when this this area gets developed fully the traffic.

A

Studies that were done originally showed you. Some footballs are on the way. Yes, so.

A

Personally, I think we should think about putting the trees up against the building and put them in the street trees like across the street.

A

I think it makes a lot more sense but see that again, david put the trees in like they are across.

A

The street so they're in the sidewalk, instead of up against, jammed up against the building.

A

D

Parallel parking like it is now yeah hold the curb line. Yep uh I mean, if there's a chance to.

D

Jump out the curb a bit to provide a wider sidewalk for better tree planting.

D

We could look at that yeah, keep in mind that there's no.

A

No space on the ground to move anything, so what you have there is is locked above about as hard.

A

As it could possibly be yeah because of that underground sewer, that's there.

A

So, if anything, I think I think the.

A

Catch basins that are there are partially in the driveways right.

A

So if anything, the curb wants to move back toward the building, half a foot or so.

A

It can't go out toward the street, it has to go back if it's going to go at all.

A

um So mark review these a little bit and you just want to make sure that you guys are cognizant on.

A

The city's going to make you put in your water meter room wherever the utilities come in from.

A

The street, so as soon as they go through the foundation wall, that's where the water meter.

A

Room is so right now you're showing a a parking spaces there that they can't be there you're.

A

Gonna need to show the mechanical room there in that heated space right where it comes through.

A

The foundation wall so think about it on the first floor in that same area, because that's.

E

Because we're thinking putting mechanicals up there, because we don't have as much.

E

Need for uh tendon space and so forth, so we'd stub it in and right up at the same spot.

E

And it comes right through the wall, so it's I mean it's either going in and down yeah, no.

A

I know I know you're saying I just don't know, I just don't know how you restrain those valves on.

A

Usually they get bolted to the foundation wall, so they can't pull off.

E

We can do we can work with that yeah. So it's kind of it's going to require some intricate detailing.

E

Okay, yeah for the sprinkler room for yeah, but the other water service like a separate location.

A

Now, they're both right there they're both right there, okay they're built right together, yeah yeah.

A

And you might be able to route those along the side. I don't know if you've got enough room to route those up the side of the building and then go in.

A

I don't know, but you just need to think about it. Wherever those.

A

That's right where the water meter room is going to be in the fire suppression, room.

A

It's going to be right there, so, okay, uh we can afford to lose that spot if we need to.

A

Obviously, you're gonna have to abandon the water service. That's there. The existing building.

D

Oh yeah, we'll have to go back to the main. You have to figure out how you're going to bring.

A

Communications into the building you need to show period lighting along the sidewalks.

A

Grease traps need to be looked at again. The grease traps, the grease trap location, you said- wasn't.

A

Yeah, so we're going to rebuild that sewer line along maplewood avenue. We got to slide that sleeve.

A

Under the railroad tracks, I don't know if you've ever done that before but you're going to open up.

A

You're going to need 60, 70, 80 feet of territory, and so we're not really going.

A

To want your services right there pouring sewage onto the ground, while we're working.

A

uh That's gonna timing-wise yeah. I don't know what it's gonna be. What the timing's gonna be.

A

We were gonna approach, the railroad to replace it when they released the tracks. Last week.

D

So they need to do that soon. That's an awful crossing.

D

Oh, they did it. Oh, I haven't been by. Oh sorry, take it back, so um we can slide up the sewer connection.

D

Maybe and then zach caught it too there's a sewer sewer line showing going to the drain line on that.

A

Plan, which is a typo, I know, yeah roof trains. We need to talk about roof drains. How they're.

A

Going to connect get connected to the drainage system and which pipe they're going to go into so.

D

Can I slow you down or you want to get the whole list out.

A

D

So what we're thinking is the roof drains would come into the back side of the building. um I know.

D

Terence trees, what's that you go out to the back side of the building, uh come out the back side and.

D

Then do something go into the building go out of the building come out of the building right.

D

So you go in good, yeah, come out, come out of the building on the back side, okay and then.

D

Run it through some sort of like an art tank, slow it down type system uh and then connect it to the.

D

The main drain line that runs under the railroad, the big 48 inch and uh that's what we're thinking.

A

There's enough real estate to do everything back there we're going to be looking at that.

D

Real hard next, but there is some real estate beyond the building before you get to the drain.

D

Okay, so two questions for you. I know you know. I know you know about the soils, so I won't even say.

A

That but yeah on on the pipe dave yeah the 48 inch. How far below ground is that and how full of water.

C

Is it at full high tide? Oh, it's full! It's under pressure. We actually need to put in the second.

A

Pipe yeah, it's not big enough right is that um sort of the plan with the maplewood project that.

D

Maybe that will happen right now. The plan is to put another same increase, the outfall that we have.

A

And then run up the hopefully the road on the side of the cemetery, but we didn't negotiate.

A

With the railroad we haven't started that yet okay, so if that fails, then we'll be looking to.

A

Expand our existing easement. Did you hear about the pending sale yep? I have oh railroad. Yep.

D

Period lighting are the ones across the street. That's still the standard. Okay,.

D

A

I'm just going to send this right to you, john. I don't want to fill the silence, but just so.

C

I just want to make a new there's a lot of stuff here, but it's all detailed stuff.

C

Okay, in order to keep the r tank and pipe work and everything for the and connect to that 48 is.

C

Going to require adding about a foot of elevation along the back of the building.

C

I just don't want to be accused later of adjusting the grade plane solely for our.

C

Benefit but we need to keep that those structures underground so you're not looking at stuff but.

A

Right and that system has to be aligned right, yeah.

A

It'll be waterproof, so you didn't talk about drainage of the basement. Are you gonna be.

A

De-Watering this, the idea is we're at elevation: eight you're, okay, we're, okay,.

C

We'll have an emergency sump, but not continuous dewatering or.

A

An emergency sump to go into the line that doesn't have any room.

A

But but it won't be all the time at least that's good correct. I mean base flood elevation is eight.

C

Feet, which is where this garage floor is so the hope is that between that and being.

C

Two feet above the existing water line. We won't have that issue, at least not in the next decade.

A

um And then you're gonna test soils. I imagine you're gonna.

A

You're gonna have to test soils to get when you excavate, you haven't done any.

A

Of that yet yep there's quite an extensive geotext study. That's already been completed.

C

Yet another reason not to dig too deep yeah. I would note on the bottom kind of.

C

Bottom right on the maplewood side, we'll be touching bedrock during excavation. So it's.

A

Well, at least, you won't have to truck that to rochester.

D

Did they even take it? That's true: oh yeah, oh bad, big story, yeah yep,.

C

Lots three and four are the worst: the worst of the contamination glock five.

C

Isn't nearly as bad because it was under the original train station, not just trackside.

B

Well, I think it's it's awesome. We've got an opportunity to improve upon the last building.

B

I I think the hdc is going to like the fact that you're coming back with something different.

B

Curious to see how they respond to the package, I don't know how different it is from what we got.

B

Here the work session, but I think it's going to be really important for you guys to make clear.

B

How that first floor, commercial space is going to interface with the sidewalk.

B

I'm sort of starting to see you know chimber timber, gasket.

B

Design like down at hannaford, where you've got almost a podium with that raised.

B

Walkway, the elevated walkway with the ramp off the right and the steps off the left on deer street.

B

It's not clear to me looking at the drawings how high the first floor is from the sidewalk.

B

It looks like it's at least six feet down at the corner where you're turning in to go to the garage.

B

Next to the bank- and this is a very different presentation than most of the buildings downtown.

B

If it's, in fact that high and I get that the floor, it appears like the parking level.

B

Is driving the height of the building by, by being so far out of the ground?.

B

You've got six feet of exposed parking. You know wall on the left on deer.

B

Street and something like three feet at the intersection with the lobby being cut into it,.

B

uh To come in a grade and then there's another three feet moving towards. It looks like that.

B

I think it's got to be very clear to everybody, especially the htc. What is going on, I mean we.

B

Spent a lot of time in this city, activating our sidewalks with the buildings and there's two.

B

Things I see here that are very different from the general character of downtown portsmouth.

B

And it doesn't mean there aren't exceptions, we did the connie bean, we have the elevated corner.

B

At the bank there across the street, I believe that wall goes as high as four feet. At the far end.

B

But four is a big difference from six just about everybody. Walking can see over it a six foot wall.

B

If it's actually that high at the 12 steps you've got going up, I just counted what was on here.

B

And it could be an error, but there are a lot of steps. That's a big wall. There's a sidewalk! That's.

B

Going to go along a very tall wall, you're not even going to see the commercial space when you're.

B

Along the high end of the wall, where the steps are because the wall's too tall to look over and.

B

It's not a very intimate experience for a pedestrian to actually engage with that building.

B

Going down deer street towards the garage, if I'm reading it right and I think in fairness to you.

B

Guys, I think this needs to get in the 3d model and we need to be able to really see cross-sections.

B

And details on that elevated walkway to see what is going on because obviously the hdc I get the.

B

Geotechnical stuff, that's driving, at least in the presentation and prior conversations. What.

B

You're hoping to achieve in avoiding any deep digging groundwater issues, dewatering issues.

B

But it would be better in my mind if this was more like the building across the street than.

B

What I seem to be seeing, which is an exaggerated approach with taller walls similar, runs similar.

B

Grades but again maybe reading it wrong. I think you need to be very careful with that, because.

B

That ground floor elevation in the parking deck is driving everything and it's creating problems.

B

That terrance is trying to solve, I think, putting landscaping around the edge of the building is.

B

Totally out of character with downtown portsmouth, you don't engage with a building here with a big.

B

Long planter along, you know, you have an entrance and then everything else is landscaped, because.

B

You're trying to perhaps take the curse off the exposed foundation of the parking. That's that's.

B

Behind that wall, because you're 36 to 5 feet above grade to get to the commercial space, so I think.

B

I think the trees in the sidewalk, like dave said, are far better.

B

Yeah, so I think the landscaping on the building is definitely it doesn't mean you.

B

Can't do new things in portsmouth. Don't get me wrong, but you're not doing things new in.

B

Portsmouth to do new things, you're doing them, because your parking level isn't deep enough.

B

And it's creating problems you're solving through architecture and landscaping to make it.

B

Semi-Pleasant to go by the building well, I think I can address that um in that all three buildings.

E

That you're mentioning we did all three of them. We designed all three of them, so the chinberg.

E

Building is a huge, much much larger podium with with you know, uh surrounding the entire building.

E

There's a you walk out onto a terrace and and a path, and it's just a much much bigger, bigger piece.

E

With a much longer drop-off um the kind of the back on the front side, it's that great! It's not.

E

But that's, but I assumed you're talking about the big wall side when you're. No, I'm talking.

B

About how it interfaces with the street and it's a better interface than this one, as it reads.

B

uh So that's what I meant if you look at the connie bean or which is brewery yeah.

D

Yeah, but not like the back, the back is a big drop off with the deck. That's not what that's not where.

B

The public goes right: it's going along yeah that side right, yeah, that side steps up pretty.

D

Pretty far to the first floor from the sidewalk or further back from the building right from the.

D

Sidewalk to get to the building you're going up a few yeah, it's far enough back yeah, it's not.

B

On the sidewalk, though, that that lift it's a big wide, so the daniel street building.

E

Has um also wraps two sides and it's pretty it's quite a bit more extensive um around the entire.

E

Building, I would say that this one is, you know, once we work a little bit more with.

E

John on grading, because he just basically has the street grades in there right now and we work with.

E

Structural, we're just beginning structural, so we know what sort of florida floors we have.

E

Those will all come into play, but I think we're I mean we're right across the street from fidelity.

E

So I think it's going to be very, very similar, that's great, to put your mind at ease, I think.

E

It's going to be very, very similar in you, know, length height, size, sort of volume.

E

As fidelity, it's not wrapping two sides, so I can tell your drawings: don't don't lead someone to get.

B

There yet so that's great if you can tighten those up, just don't want to put a finer point on yes or.

C

No answer yes or you can answer longer. We went through great pains, though, not to put a parking.

C

Garage entrance on the end of the building facing deer street right, which I wouldn't be opposed to.

B

If you took you know, if there's a handball court on the street, which you're telling me there isn't.

B

Then uh then I would take the garage door on the street any day over the handball court.

B

And putting it on the back, so, let's, let's see if we get it to look like 46 maple wood, if it does.

B

Then I think, if what you say is is true, then this thing's probably going to be fine. I don't.

B

Find it offensive, but this didn't look like anything like that. Well, this building is gonna.

E

Won't be that same style, that's not the style on that! Okay! You know it comes clear um so that so.

B

The landscaping piece is part of that um and I think that's still gotta be worked out. The.

B

Ball belts go away, but I think I think sidewalks and you look at the connie bean. The connie bean.

B

Is an elevated sidewalk with street trees in the sidewalk? It's all.

B

There aren't 12 steps to get up onto anything, so you know perhaps then the graphics are all.

B

Going to get tighter and it's going to look more like the connie beans, a comfortable elevation.

B

That those to me are the ceilings not the floor as to how high you get before it starts to fall apart.

B

And this looked like it was quite a bit higher than either of those two examples to to my eyes. So.

B

I'm glad to hear it's not likely the case. I think we need to get it in the 3d model. Sooner than.

B

Later for everybody's benefit, including the people here, we've got the technology. Let's get your.

B

Sketchup, drawing or whatever you did over to jamie and get it in, we should have that for tomorrow.

B

um We've got it for russell street for tomorrow. We really need that.

E

There's no ramp drawn on here right now. This is the oh you've. I tried to guess how your.

B

Drawings worked that ramp is down here and the steps are there, but I could be all wrong just.

E

The um that's just the uh I mean it's very, it's just the actual grain line, because we.

E

Try not to make too much of a commitment until we actually get feedback from the board at this.

E

Point I hear you, but this is a driver right. You need to get this early, so people aren't.

B

Panicking later and then you're going backwards because they're offended by it and they want it.

B

Shortened and then your your floor to ceiling heights change or you're you're you're digging.

B

A deeper hole and then you're dealing with all the stuff that these guys are typically talking.

B

About with the geotechnical, I think it's just as important that can't get left behind unless.

B

It's exactly like across the street. I don't think anybody will panic. If that's what it looks like.

B

Again on the grave side, well close right, I think we need to see your you know the.

D

Elevation of the floor across the street is 5.29, so meaning what meaning it's too low.

D

It's too low it's too low. What no no steep counter elevation is quite deep. What is 5.29 x next door.

B

Basically so a question I had that, I don't I don't need to get into, but I really want to know two and.

B

A half it sounds like people are saying it's too low. It's it's bad. I want to know what the data.

B

Is actually is it flooding like regularly? I mean I do. It would be good to have someone look at that.

B

Maybe you might know that but um and there's a big difference between 5.2 and 8.

B

You know every little bit is going to help. One might be that close yeah right. So I think.

B

That's the kind of stuff that we need to be looking at on the inside.

A

Because it affects this thing on the outside, which it seems like the eight feet is conservative. It's.

A

High enough that you don't have to worry about water bailing in from outside, then.

A

And you have a watertight foundation which people do yeah all right, so I just think it'd be good for.

B

Us as well on our side to get earlier the building height calculations. What your great plane is what.

B

Your building height is five feet around six feet off. Okay, you know I'm curious as to whether your.

B

Elevated walkway incorporates into your ab into your finished grade the added height you're, adding.

B

To build that elevated walkway, because that's that's the podium thing that again, it's not.

B

Illegal to do that, but it's important to note is this: a 58-foot building with finnish grade.

B

Incorporating the elevated walkway or not, because the elevated walkway is quite a bit higher than.

B

The sidewalk- and so I think, that's the answer- is it's 58 feet based on the existing grade plane.

C

Existing grade plane, okay, so not including the elevator we're not factoring. No, no they're good.

B

um Yeah for the record, we're not trying to build this tallest building in portsmouth, where.

C

You wouldn't be yeah 74 feet, four walk. You know, you're not going to touch that uh with this.

B

Yeah you talked about the entrance spacing you know. We obviously need to see an elevation that that's tighter, but also maple would have.

B

This looks like only deer in order to look at some of the issues you presented orally here.

B

And how the first floor height what the measurements are.

B

Around that building looked like- maybe you were doing some of that here, but I couldn't tell.

B

What these numbers meant on the landscape plan um facade modulation, make sure you don't miss that in.

B

In respect to the hundred foot, you know, I know you know that, but in the open space, so the last thing.

B

I would just say is, I think I think one thing you guys need to consider is, you know you're building.

B

A taller building than the 50 feet that's allowed and the zoning allows for a 60-foot building, but.

B

It allows for with community space or workforce housing and obviously the last candidate came.

B

In and went for the 58 59 feet or even 60 with workforce housing, all I'm wanting to caution. You.

B

Is you're asking for zoning relief for building hype for something that has already in the code.

B

A mechanism without a variance to get a 60-foot building, I get your penthouse is smaller. You know.

B

It's a penthouse, it's a smaller floor than what your predecessor submitted, but keep in mind. I.

B

Don't think anybody, the zoning is not offended and nobody has yet told you they're offended.

B

With a five-story building here, the zoning says you can do it. The prior project was approved.

B

With it, uh you you've gone to four stories with a penthouse. You have a right to do that.

B

But keep in mind you know you're asking for a variance instead of providing the benefits that.

B

Are already articulated well articulated in the ordinance as to how you get there, so I'm just.

B

Putting that out, there there's relief through workforce housing, and I think you should be.

A

Prepared to kind of defend that that question before the zoning board of adjustment- and I.

A

Think the fighting board is likely to drill down on that as well about why that is not. um You know.

A

Something that and why that won't work. I think just reiterate what nick said: the planning board.

A

Is going to be concerned in their conclusion of design review, phase about the height and massing.

A

In your justification for not going entirely below grade for your parking, what the reasoning for I.

A

Know that there's been you have you explained a little bit about that today expect to be yes.

A

To be pressed about that, they are concerned about those things lately.

A

And so I think, both of those things you can expect um to be put through the paces a little bit.

D

A

Can you finish nick yep, I think so any other comments or questions.

A

Do you have any other comments or questions at this point.

D

Yeah, I think john you're going to have a traffic study updated for that. If I can hire somebody.

A

I've been trying for a month and a half.

B

uh Did they call you by the way yeah call you yeah.

B

A

They've been doing all the peer reviews.

B

A

E