City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Technical Advisory Committee, 12 Apr 2022

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From YouTube: 4.12.2022 Technical Advisory Committee Work Session

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4.12.2022 Technical Advisory Committee Work Session

A

355 spinning road subdivision.

B

Hello seems very strange to be on this side of the table.

B

Okay, my name is liz good and I am the a church member at north church of portsmouth and with.

B

Me is doug, woodward, also church, member and also church clerk, and we are here for a subdivision.

B

The property that we are speaking about is 355 spinney road, it's one big lot, but it has two.

B

uh Buildings on it and this, this property is in the process of being marketed.

B

For sale, but we want to take the parsonage out of the equation. We just want to make it.

B

Put it on its own lot, as you know, just by following the minimal lot dimensions, and so we.

B

The the parish house building is number 355. Spinning parsonage house is 217 spinny road.

B

So we've we've just got a preliminary plan here, but we do want to make one.

B

Change to it that has come to light since we had this pulled together, we with the parsonage lot. We.

B

Would still like to just maintain the 100 foot square foot frontage, but on the left-hand side.

B

Of the front part of the property, we want to follow that line straight back, but it's been.

B

Suggested several times that we just follow the stone wall once we come to the stone wall, we'll.

B

Follow the stone wall and we might even like to continue it a little bit further to where.

B

The sewer manhole is just to give a little bit more um backyard for the parsonage family.

C

You've obviously thought about it, but it makes sense to me that unless you've got an answer.

C

For me that uh I don't know about that, you'd follow the stone wall from the street. All the.

C

Way back and have that be a trapezoidal lot, so the person that's living in the parsonage.

C

Or you folks, you know, you know where the property line is and you're not crossing a wall right I'll.

B

Let doug answer that, because we've talked about that: does it affect your ability to do something.

C

With the other property, we don't know in fairness, why don't you consider taking an exclusive.

C

Easement on that area, so at least the owner of this unit can maintain that triangle, even if they.

C

Don't take the fee because it's never going to be used for building. I see what you mean yeah and.

B

It's just going to be more functional if the wall is the lot line or the use line right right.

D

Sorry yeah, that's that's yeah very good good point. There's a huge.

E

Oak tree on that little triangle, right in here.

E

I I think some of that may exist because the the parsonage existed um prior to the church.

E

Coming to own the land that the parish house is built on and then the woman that owned the.

E

uh Parsonage left it in her will to the church and at some point these.

E

Were all merged by deed together, um so the to the extent the parsonage existed.

E

That went out and it crosses over into the neighboring property before it gets down to the sewer down on the bypass.

E

But yes, we would definitely protect that interest um and furthermore,.

F

You might want to extend that easement area, extend that that imaginary line where the stone wall.

F

Follows all the way to the bypass and put a sewer ease in that whole area? Because if this line for.

F

Whatever reason, if you don't have an easement on that adjacent lot and they decide to tell.

F

You that you, they don't want your sewer on their lot. You have no way of accessing the sewer system.

E

I know we just got into this because the line actually collapsed.

E

Get down in that area and we had to go down and we did work with the neighbors. I was.

F

I walked it all. The other day I went down there with the sewer department.

F

And uh but because that manhole is not on your property, you need to protect yourself, yeah.

F

I don't know exactly what language other than there was a required notification of.

E

The neighbors and we we did talk with them and we could remove a section of fence and have an.

E

Easement on the other lot, then it's not a problem, but if you don't it's a problem, no, I understand.

C

What's your intention, if you know it for the use of the parsonage, are you going to retain it or you.

C

Are going to retain it and our minister will live in it because it would be great if and when this.

C

Is conveyed to somebody else that you clean up the lot lines once you know what someone wants.

C

To do here, because that may in fact be better owned in fee than an easement. This triangle.

G

And you may be able to run that stonewall line all the way to the back, with having no adverse impact.

D

On this property, because you don't yet know what's going to happen here right.

C

Right, so it would be good if you didn't go full speed and recording all of this until we, you know.

C

Odds are this is going to need discretionary permitting to do something right, so the.

C

Person that makes an offer for the parish bowl is going to make a contingency offer.

C

So, there's time for that to work its way out, you could record them simultaneously when you know.

C

Exactly what's going to happen here, it may be that that's the line you could go all the way back with.

C

Like it was originally probably laid out with no harm to the value of this.

E

Would we have to come back to revise our plan? It would come back with these folks.

C

You know whenever they're it could be part of what they do, so it shouldn't cost. You too much.

H

And we didn't see a lot of issues, we thought it seemed to meet the dimensional requirements.

H

As you've kind of identified- and I realized that could change, we had the same question that public.

H

Works had that to make sure that we understand how each of the lots served. What offside easements are.

H

Needed- and that wasn't entirely clear to us where, and that would be something we would just want.

H

To fully understand by utilities and so yeah, you should provide those easements where you have them.

I

Yeah, I don't know what the survey are uncovered and then are you gonna? It says assumed utility.

I

I'm assuming you're going to finalize that for the real tac meeting.

I

For the front in the front of the parish hall.

E

Oh in the front, yeah right, yeah, it says, assumed and then in the back it says.

I

A possible sewer line here is that needed. For I don't know we do something with the building.

I

I would think they'd want to know where that is, but I mean your buyers are going to want to know.

C

Maybe we don't need to know where it is. It just jumped out of somebody. Yeah it'd, be nice to know.

F

So the other issue- that's here- is there there's two storm drains there in front of the paris hall.

F

And they drain the parish hall parking lot, but they also drain spinning road.

F

So we're gonna need some sort of easement through there, because there's no other way.

F

To drain spinny road except the way it's being drained originally, that was open field and it.

F

Just drained that way, but they created that parking lot and they put those two.

F

Storm drains in there is no other way to put the drain that road other than through this property.

F

On the remaining lot, so we will be asking for some sort of drainage.

E

Is there a line under spinny road that they're linked to not under spinning roads? The two.

F

Drains that are in your parking lot yeah, but we don't accept the water from the road yeah just.

F

Because it sheets off the road and goes into the parking lot yeah, but are those connected anywhere.

E

Are they just yeah? They go down the right side of the perishable building and go all the way to the.

F

Almost to the bypass there's a drain there, that's not shown on the survey airplane.

B

Okay, so smart drains do they need to identify that, where that's at sure, okay and then.

F

We haven't necessarily need to follow that course, if they want to do something with.

F

The property, but we need to- we need to have that drainage available because other than that there's.

F

Nothing else we could do you'd like to see those easements right now.

E

Come in with the project, okay, we have easement templates that.

H

We can provide for you that show how the city likes these ones to be um dedicated.

F

And I don't believe that the sewer line that's shown out back from the parish hall to the bypass.

F

Looks like that quite frankly, you know, honestly, I don't think so. We look at that. Manhole.

F

That's down on the bypass, and it looks like it's coming at more of an angle that it meets. It goes.

F

Into the parking lot somehow and then makes its way into the building, but it doesn't go straight.

F

Out like that, it does not look like that yeah and I I had suggested to the surveyor that he.

E

Come in see what plans you folks have on files, we don't. We don't have files for super laterals.

F

We don't keep them yeah with private property, the city doesn't have notes on them and what.

E

About your man, wherever the last manhole is well, the manhole is showing the one that's on the one.

F

On the bypass, everything from the manhole in the bypass to the building is private property, but it.

F

Doesn't follow that 90 degree angle, the way that he hasn't shown? It doesn't look like that at all.

H

The lateral is the service line. Is that right, dave the service line yep, so the last manhole is.

E

The one down behind the neighboring property to the north of our property, yes, yeah yeah,.

E

And the only thing you'd have in there is what's in the manhole.

E

I assume that's where it becomes city sewer right there, yeah at that structure,.

F

So that would show where lines are leaving the manhole or come into the manhole. Obviously, okay.

F

That line was leaking a considerable amount of ground water into the city sewer. So it's going to.

F

Whoever buys that lot is going gonna need to replace that line.

F

Absolutely that's the personage or the the parish hall parish hall yeah. The bastard just got its.

E

Sewer line rebuilt, which was an older line, you know old clay pipes that collapsed.

E

But this was 1962, I don't know what they were putting in at that point.

F

D

E

Standard stuff, you have any other questions or any other tech members have any other comments.

B

No, this is helpful. Yeah yeah, obviously you'll see.

E

The parish house at some point and we don't even know, what's happening yet.

H

You mean there's a proposed change to the parish house. Is that what you're saying.

H

Or the parsonage you mean the church is going to sell that. Oh, I see okay.

E

It's being marketed and there's proposals coming in during relative near future, but we don't know.

E

What people have in mind or what conditions, whether they're reasonable unreasonable.

E

Pipe dreams that kind of thing but we'll find out well keep an eye out for that.

E

I'm sure you will all right all right. Thank you. Thank you.

B

Thank you. Everyone, good luck, eric this is the next one.

A

All right next, we have 1400 lafayette.

J

Good afternoon everybody for the record chris tamula senior project manager at green peterson.

J

uh With me is jenna green uh one of the members of four amigos, um so we uh we submitted three plans.

J

uh For this tech work session, uh we want to try to get some feedback from uh from the committee.

J

To just kind of discuss the overall changes to the plans, um the fact that we need a second.

J

Extension to our previous approvals and we're also moving forward with a lot line, consolidation and.

J

Subdivision plan basically separating out the the commercial development in the front and.

J

The residential uh development in the back, so this plan right here is the conceptual subdivision plan.

J

You can see along the middle driveway between the five guys and the uh the first two residential.

J

Complexes there's a little a dark dashed line. That's what we're calling out our.

J

Subdivision line between the two developments- both lots meet open space. Both lots meet.

J

Required zoning for building setbacks, lock coverage um parking uh et cetera and the.

J

Overall goal of this is obviously we got our approvals in 2020. uh We got the extension in.

J

2021 um and unfortunately, due to you know, kobit and the ryzen co, you know construction costs.

J

The team took a look at the overall design and they decided to scale back the development and.

J

Essentially reduce the four-story buildings that were previously shown on the approved plans, so.

J

Unit c, which is the middle building below west west road along beverly? That's where the the.

J

U-Shaped four-story building used to be we've now converted that to a seven unit, uh townhouse style.

J

Building there was another building over by the common driveway between the hotel and complex e.

J

And d that was also four story: unit that we've reduced or eliminated and expanded on.

J

Complex d by adding a couple additional units, so the overall reduction in the development.

J

We've reduced units from 53 previously down to 32., like I said we eliminated the four-story buildings.

J

And now everything's all townhouse complexes which are consistent with what was previously approved.

J

For the building style and layout, we've reduced the building footprint from just.

J

Under 38 000 square feet to just over 25 000 square feet, we've reduced the parking from 106.

J

Spaces down to 95 spaces, we've we've reduced the impervious coverage by about 2 400 square feet.

J

Which thereby increases the open space on the on the um the development by 2400 square feet.

J

um And that's basically, the the intent of this plan is to kind of show that.

J

Show what's going on there, so if you want to move just move to the second slide,.

J

So this is just a red line overlay of what we have currently proposed compared to the uh the previous.

J

Proposal it may look a little busy, but there the main reason that looks a little busy is.

J

Because we are subdividing it out, so the upper lots and lot four and lot five. Those.

J

Used to be rear and side setbacks, um I'm sorry there used to be a side setback along lot. Five.

J

uh When it was all one lot as part of lot nine, that is now a rear setback to peverly hill. So we.

J

Had to shift those buildings slightly five feet to the left uh to meet that building setback.

J

Complex c, which is where the u-shaped building used to be. You can see that.

J

That new red building fits you know within that same footprint,.

J

um And then unit unit d- again we added two uh two units to that. So it used to be six unit complex.

J

Now it's an eight unit complex, so the goal of this would just kind of show you the overall.

J

Scheme that it's it's still consistent with what was previously approved, but just reduced in scale.

J

um And then the the next slide is just sort of what were what we're looking to do. Overall for.

J

The for the development sort of as a whole. So if you, if you just want to go to the slide three.

J

So this is ultimately what we're, what we're looking to do, um as you can see, you know.

J

It's just it still provides the same um community space um development still has all the landscaping.

J

um The same type of building complexes just kind of shifted around. We want to try to get.

J

Some feedback from um from you folks, so we can move forward with formal attack and then move.

J

Forward with the the planning board approvals or reapprovals, um as I said, we we need to um based.

J

On the revised layer, we're going to amend, we're looking to amend the site plan and then extend the.

J

The site plan as well get an extension on the cyphon approvals, so we want to get everything.

J

Incorporated in one as well as provide the the subdivision plan for the overall development.

J

Everything else, as part of the approvals is still uh still in play, we're still providing the the new.

J

Water line extension along beverly hill um we've still uh have the the sewer maintenance agreement.

J

um Going all the way out um through this complex and the hotel complex, that's all been cleaned out.

J

um Obviously, we still would still have the same signage for the fire department, although.

J

It would be a little bit easier to identify everything. That's going on now that they're.

J

Just townhouse units rather than apartment complexes- um and we just feel that's this- is.

J

One of the situations where we actually reduce the scale of the project- and uh you don't really.

J

We don't really do that very often, so um that's kind of it in a nutshell,.

F

So there's about 32 units, there are 32 total units. Yes,.

F

And is the intent to have a parking uh parking spot in each one yeah, so each of the units still.

J

Has uh two parking spaces, so each of the units has a garage which houses. How do you figure that.

J

Out so each there there's a it's. Basically a three-story bill 30 feet wide. I'm sorry.

J

They're they're two they're two-car garages, based on it's the same. You can't open the doors.

J

Yeah, it's the same. It's the same exact, building, footprint same exact layout. That was that was.

J

Previously presented before uh tack and the plane board as well, so do you have a 14-foot door.

K

Yeah, it's one. It's one larger. We did the same with units um several years ago on islington.

K

Street and there um we were able to get two car garages in there I mean you're, not fitting.

K

Two trucks: in there I mean you need to have you can fit one. You can put two small suvs or an suv.

K

In a smaller vehicle crawl at the back yeah great we'll do one 16-foot door, 16 yeah yeah again this.

K

Is if we can fit a 17? This is the exact same building footprint that we previously presented.

J

Before um attack as well as the plan, oh, I understand yeah just you can't open the doors.

F

It's too narrow to actually I notice there's we don't have elevations and.

H

Are the townhouse the way that the new townhouses I know town houses were contemplated in the.

H

Original site plan approval, I know we'll probably see elevations that come in as part of the updated.

H

Submittal, but will are they largely consistent with the it's very consistent? uh We did. We didn't.

J

Provide them because we were just trying to get some feedback on the layout itself, but the overall.

J

um The architectural scheme has not changed uh other than we're losing the four-story buildings.

J

And now they're all three-story, which were uh approved um at the last set of plans. But.

H

Largely consistent with the sort of townhouse configuration styles that are in the previous yeah.

D

Absolutely insane you're gonna you're gonna resubmit the elevations yep we're gonna resubmit.

C

The automation is it just one trash enclosure for all 32 in that bottom right, um so that.

J

Trash enclosure is actually for the rite aid. uh There's. No, it actually goes round each of the.

J

Units has its own internal um trash and they have their own. um They'll have trash pickups.

J

They'll have their own place for, like their own dumpsters.

J

And recycling and all that again same same exact, layout same exact scheme as we.

J

We previously presented yeah- I wasn't here before but yeah. Thank you.

H

Seems like you were, calling it a subdivision plan and we just weren't clear about. Is there.

H

Some subdivision that's proposed as part of this yeah. So um if you have part of the original yeah.

J

So the original plan, um when we originally got approved and submitted we're literally looking.

J

At uh kind of minimizing the development, and then I've been speaking with juliet your predecessor.

J

She had basically indicated that we couldn't. We could knock on to minimize. So therefore, from a.

J

From a financing point of view, with the banks, as well as the different partners,.

J

For the commercial versus the retail uh they've decided to move forward with a subdivision plan.

J

So, as part of the formal package, we would be we'll be submitting a lot land consolidation.

J

Subdivision plan, which will divide out the commercial uh in the front and the.

J

Residential in the rear, so that on on this plane here the the dark line, it's sort of like.

J

A dash line above the middle driveway, that's the uh that's! The proposed subdivision line.

L

Chris, it looks like you're doing some of the parking out in the aisle. You have like five.

L

Head in spaces, rather than the parallel used to have yeah, we used to have absolutely we.

J

Used to have palace faces along that um we sort of straighten out the the driveway uh connecting the.

J

Upper uh the upper two units with the um with the commercial and we got rid of the um the.

J

Power space and just made the head in spaces yeah. My concern is that just you know having.

L

Backing out, especially that close to the the intersection where you're turning in that looks.

L

Like a in the color picture here, the dark car- it's parked in that last space, you know ideally.

L

You'd like to have a longer throw it in there before you've got someone pulling it in or out.

L

Is it not possible to keep the parallel spots? um Let me see here so.

J

If you actually look at the the red line overlay, we actually had the parallel spaces, which were.

J

Very similar in location to that um to that driveway, um the parallel just didn't work with.

J

This with this current configuration, we want to try to give a little bit more internal circulation.

J

For for the individual units, I think we may have had, I want to say 24 feet for a dry vial.

J

Previously and now we've increased it to 30 or 40 feet for the actual, um the actual individual.

J

Complexes with that that main drive aisle being you know, obviously the connection point between.

J

The upper and the lower portions of the of the development- um I I don't see that those you.

J

Know those five pellets, those five regular spaces being very uh you know very problematic. I mean you.

J

You're talking very low speeds, you know people coming in coming out, um yeah just be, if being.

L

That close to that intersection would be better if they were parallel rather than pulling in and out.

I

Did you say they were 24 or 30 they're 20, it's 24, 55 yeah, um so the main drive aisle is.

J

Is 24 feet wide? Yes, so that's the that's connecting the um basically lock four and five.

J

Residential, yes, and we do obviously we have, you know parallel spaces um along the connecting road.

J

Between west road and the hotel, those are still the palo spaces that were previously shown as well.

F

Some of the asphalt is 40 feet wide behind that units we were just trying to find it provide a.

J

Little bit more room for turning maneuvering and if somebody wants to you know park their.

J

Car, if they have a guest, they have a space to you know park outside their other unit.

J

So if you're on beverly hill road, the front of the building is facing beverly hill in the.

J

Back of the building with the garages are facing, um you know the hote, the the hotel.

J

So the garage units are all on that that back there so you'd be able to.

J

Somebody pull in park at the at the garage unit if they, if they needed to.

M

Like on building c, did they? um What are the thought for snow removal? Has that been kind.

M

Of thought through is that is that you know enough room to get in there and maneuver and.

J

Yeah so we have snow, we have snow removal areas throughout the area uh throughout.

J

The development and then we there also is a note on the plan that you know. Obviously, if.

J

If snow removal is not, um if there's not enough room for snow that have to truck it off site and.

J

Again, that's that's consistent with the previously approved plans as well.

C

Is there a requirement, you have a 10 foot wide sidewalk? I can't remember so. The 10.

J

Foot wide sidewalk is part of the community space requirement. uh So it's to provide you know walking.

J

Paths for people uh to connect um the surrounding areas uh through the uh through the whole.

J

Development, but is it a requirement that it'd be 10 feet wide, I believe, versus what you proposed.

C

Since it seems excessive to me- and maybe it's just a requirement- I've lost it, but.

J

The 10 feet is the requirement for for the community space in the gateway district. Well, I.

C

I wouldn't I've lost my image here, but I I I wouldn't do it internal there, where you've got a.

C

10 foot sidewalk next to building at the bottom there. Now I can't see anything.

C

Yeah you've got a 10 foot wide sidewalk down here that I think, could be skinnied up to five along.

C

The edge of that building in order to provide some landscaping and separate it from the building next.

C

Door, there's no real point right: you walk in at 10 feet and then you're at five when you cross.

C

The the driveway, uh I think it would have been better and maybe there's a way to thread.

C

The needle on building c and a that, maybe those street trees could be pulled out a little further.

C

Maybe there's some bump-ins of a couple of feet into the 10-foot wide community space.

C

So the trees don't have to be that close to the house that they end up being ornamentals.

C

You know if these could bump out into that eight into that sidewalk. A couple of feet.

C

Like you've done along, I think it's effective what you did along the driveway between building.

C

B and d, with the parallel parking you've got the tree pits sure you know, I don't know if those are.

C

Greats or more actual protected pits, but I think you've got an adequate width for the sidewalk.

C

There and and I would add a couple of trees on the end of at both ends of complex d building d.

C

Where again, you've got a 10 foot wide sidewalk that nobody's gonna need when it's necking down.

C

For every street tree you walk by right, so these two ends you put street trees in those.

C

um And then reduce the street trees along beverly hill, no I'd increase, I'd move them.

C

Further, if possible, this is something to think about. I'm going to have to talk and look at the.

C

Regulations myself, but if you could take all these trees and move them two feet into that.

C

Sidewalk still be community space, they're less apt to be on the house within two or.

C

Three years of you, planting them and that'll cut down, because it's obviously pretty hideous.

C

On the other side of those trees to look at the power lines and probably the trash and weeds.

C

That sits in the green space between the edge of pavement and the edge of the proposed sidewalk.

C

I also think it would make sense between building d and e, that you consider some of.

C

The same pavement treatments you had in the prior approval, which was to sort of.

C

Separate the driveway from driveway I mean this is complicated. If you can park behind building c.

C

With your visitor parking or your excess cars, but you can't really do that, except for the first unit.

C

In complex e right, so there's some ambiguity as to what fits I'm not suggesting you know, motorcycle.

C

Wouldn't fit three units down, but maybe you use some pavers to uh outline sort of the semi-private.

C

Space but yeah, maybe this way instead of that circle, the driveway is clearly delineated in.

C

The tapered parking areas, so you could park a bicycle or a motorcycle or a small car. Do you.

H

Mean delineate the driveway with separate from the brother yeah, where people might be inclined.

C

To park behind their unit they're going to see everybody doing that in building c and building.

C

A and building b yeah I mean the intent of um you know. What's going on between building d.

J

Again was was to be consistent with what we had previously. You know shown with the pavers, but you.

J

Know we can definitely change the orientation of that. That's that's, not a problem. um Changing the.

C

Paving, rather than the orientation right yeah, I think adding a couple trees and shifting the trees.

J

Around uh those are extremely minor things that we can definitely uh look to make changes on. I mean.

C

I'm not sure it makes sense for it to be a pack gravel, walking trail.

C

But maybe it does, I was wondering about that too. It seems like it's going to be a mess in no time.

C

And not used, and if you want to plow it, it's going to be hard to plow yeah, the the the intent of the.

J

Walking trail was to basically provide a connection from beverly hill to you know.

J

Throughout the development there are some patios uh above uh you know, you know unit a again. We.

J

Weren't looking to recreate the wheel, this is what we had previously shown. So you know there was no.

J

Comment then so we didn't, you know, we didn't think there was any issues with that. So yeah.

I

So appreciate us there's a good spec for a porous that they use out of peas um for poorest people of.

I

Course neighbors walk uh drive. Then you won't have to worry about storm water it'll be more expensive.

I

But of course, the thing you're going to do now is you're going to check to make sure that this new.

F

Design um you need to check the original stormwater design, make sure it meets the.

F

New stormwater rules they enacted because you're over the fifteen thousand square feet.

F

So sure whole different list of criteria that you have to.

D

Yeah, we'll double check that you probably already have this on your list, but steph wanted.

H

Me to remind you that you'd have to submit a separate application for your subdivision and then.

H

That actually goes through a kind of a separate process they can. They can track together, though,.

H

And the the public hearing can be the same.

F

You meaning the setbacks from the lot line to the dumpster area, yep.

A

What about for this area.

A

It's creating this slot line this dumps, that's what we're talking about yeah um the site, regs.

A

It's 20 feet so then, if that's, if that's the case, we would just need to get a waiver then to.

J

For that setback and then the zoning ordinance it's 10 feet. So is it that's not that yeah.

H

Does the dumpster serve both lots? The dumpster is there uh for the for the right right.

A

I think from the site rex he can request a waiver for, but from the zoning ordinance it would have to be a variance if it's he leaves the line there.

C

While you're in that vicinity, what's the little brown area intended to.

D

Signify next to building this it morning, probably make more sense to be landscaping.

C

There's a little brown area around here that that's just a shadow. I think I believe.

J

It's different, okay, the other great, but it's something, but I make it green. Okay,.

C

And you could do that on the other side, the same way right by narrowing up the sidewalk. On the left hand, side.

C

So you got vertical granite, curving everywhere, even though it's shown darker in some areas and.

C

Fades out, it's all going to be seamlessly vertical granite. What about the walkway.

C

That might be porous pavement around the back of building b. Is that got a vertical.

C

Granite curb holding it up, uh it would be vertical granite, yeah, along that yep.

I

What are those, uh I guess, they're structures um above I can't see the building number, because.

I

My thing's blurry, above a just just above a there's, a new structure in red and then one.

I

To the right it looks like it's existing yeah one one's they look like grates. Is it moved.

H

Is that one of them going away in one of them and I'm not sure what they are? They look like.

J

A little drainage, grater yeah, that's a that's an outside patio area for for a common space. Oh okay,.

I

I'm sorry so there's one existing and you're going to add a new one. Is that what that show? No, those are those are both they're, both on because one's red and one's black.

J

Oh yes, yes yeah, I apologize so the the old was the original location and the red is the new location.

J

Yep, oh okay, so there's two patios side by side. They just moved yes got it. Thank you wait is there.

H

There was one, and there was so there was one and one moved. Is that or is that so.

J

Where it is right there there that's, where the location and then that is now being moved.

J

Over there, which the final will be two of them, two, it's the same yeah. So there's two here now: oh.

J

And there is an additional one down by in the yeah right there with this repeater. I know down.

J

By right there so there's one there, so we added so as part of the 24. So I apologize yeah. I apologize.

J

As part of the additional um open space on site, we provided some additional community space with.

J

With an additional patio area in that area as well, so we're going to need a layer that shows all.

C

The community space right yeah, we have, we have a separate uh community community space plan yeah. So.

L

I keep coming back to these five parallel spaces perpendicular, but why are the two handicapped.

L

There, what is that purpose? We were just trying to meet the ada requirements, so there's a there's.

J

Outside parking spaces, so it's 1.25, we had more than 25 outside parking spaces, so we provided two.

J

Ada spaces, which is also the reason that we don't have parallel spaces there.

L

So that's it for for community, not for the residents but visitors. It's it's for anybody. Yeah.

D

So I understand some work needed to be done on the sewer um in the existing commercial lot is.

D

That going to get done as part of this work or at a different time, so that's already been completed.

J

We've already videoed we've already camera cleaned out the the sewer line. um There's.

J

uh An operation maintenance agreement that I believe was submitted as part of.

J

The previous plans- that's still intact as part of this, this overall right, but the repairs haven't.

F

Been made, though, the repairs have not been made correct. The repairs will be made once once the.

J

Site in the future goes under construction, and that's all still still in play as part of this.

A

Do you uh fight apartment access, or are you subdivided? I don't think so. Just he's.

A

Meant for that, I'm sorry with the question uh fire department, access for building approval.

A

In particular would be um now on the other, parasol, that's being so divided out yeah. I.

J

Mean that's essentially, a common driveway between you know between the the the two developments.

J

So that I mean there shouldn't be an issue for a fire department to maneuver around private right.

D

Yes, yeah yeah, so there would have to be an easement or something absolutely.

C

These buildings going to look like the ones you're doing at 45, 3500.

K

um The designs are a little bit different. It's a different architect. um I mean I have.

K

We didn't submit them because we're still kind of fine-tuning them they're the same.

K

Sort of look as before, but we'll have some updated renderings when we come back next time.

K

So they're they're a little different.

I

You said you were: are you going to condo these and then you weren't, going to condo? The commercial is.

I

That what you said, the commercial will be one lot and the residential will be another lot.

J

But no condos, oh it says condo complex on here on on each unit. All the buildings.

I

Not just from the old one yeah yeah yeah, it was just the terminology that we're using.

J

They're, like the condominiums, you know so they're not kind of in names now they're.

J

Townhouse condominiums or whatever, whatever you want to call them.

J

They're not non-apartments you'd have an individual, not rental, either ownership.

D

I'm sorry you'd have an owner per each unit. That's yeah! I should have there's a d for every.

I

Unit, that's what I should have said so, there's an individual owner. What is the ownership structure.

H

That's the question yeah, so I mean we're we're we haven't decided yet really we.

K

We originally intended for these to all be sold as individual condominium units. Now we are looking at.

K

Rentals um or potentially, a combination of the two so that it hasn't quite been figured out yet. Okay.

F

So just so you know.

F

The water main water distribution setup will be completely different.

F

Depending upon what the answer you give us, well, you need to know before you come back or design.

C

It for the higher threshold, which is probably condominiums right and then you rent them. Okay,.

M

Now it's the king, one owner watching backwards. The sewer line won't give them individual water.

F

Lines unless it's a condominium, we want to see the condominium documents. Everything.

C

Yeah they could have all that still rent them all. You can still do that yeah as long as they're.

C

Condominiums when you rent them, yes, okay, they'll have to be actually condominiums that you rent out.

F

More taxes they'd be paying more taxes the owner would, but that so basically to get those.

H

Individual service lines they have to be separated ownership, otherwise service line period. So.

K

Sometimes, with condos we make the water. The water bill is part of the condo fee and we.

K

Don't meter them individually, yeah so that I don't know in which case you'll need to show.

F

Water distribute water room for each building that, where the fire and domestic services go in and get.

F

Metered and all the equipment lays and that we have access to with our own kiss of the keys and.

A

You're, probably going to need and that's going to chew up space inside of one unit.

A

You'll likely need a sprinkler room anyways for each building.

A

Regardless of ownership style.

F

And the sewer thing has been lingering way too long, so we're probably going to make a condition of approval, probably not going to get an approval until the sewer is fixed.

F

It's been years, there's plenty of time to fix it, so the the intent was to pull the building.

J

Permit and get everything started last year. um Obviously the delayed with covenant in years.

F

It's we don't need to talk about it. Okay, been years should have been done a long time ago.

H

It probably was the condition of the original approval. Do you think.

D

Anything else anything else from anyone. You have any other questions here.

J

I think we're we're moving forward to um formally submitting next week um and then submitting to the.

J

Planning board potential- hopefully the week out the week after. I believe I think that's.

J

What we talked about, thank you, okay. We look forward to seeing that. Thank you. Thank you.

D

Can you can you reach out to me.

D

Here sure great yeah, thank you.

H

It says stephanie's family.

D

C

Eric's going to love the parking on circulation problems.

A

All right next up, we have 806 us root, one bypass.

G

Hello, everybody.

G

Hello, thank you good afternoon. So I'm here with the owner, richard regazio and the.

G

Builder dave kozubowski, um probably everyone's familiar with this site, 806 route 1 bypass.

G

Known as the city, tobacco and beverage- and I don't know, probably some board members.

G

Remember I think about six years ago the previous owner came to attack with a pretty intensive.

G

Application, where they're going to add a big footprint, add a second floor.

G

And they just kind of scratch the surface there, so they never made it all the way through attack.

G

What we're here for today is um the inside of the store is a little cramped for space.

G

So what we'd like to do is fill in the back jog of the building.

G

And install a cooler there, which would give us more space inside the store.

G

So if you look at this first sheet here, this is existing conditions.

G

So you see we're right on route 1 bypass, headed north and the way you access this site.

G

Is you're headed north and you actually drive into the lot to the north of us.

G

Which we have an easement to pass over and then get into this parking lot.

G

The site is fully developed, mostly paved a little bit of riprap on the stark street.

G

Bridge side and some gravel in other areas, but.

G

Mostly paved and then you can see that the back of the building has these odd jogs.

G

So that's what we'd like to fill in.

G

uh If you can go to the next sheet, peter.

G

So we've highlighted in blue, where we want to put the addition off off the rear.

G

Of the building and just kind of square up those those odd jogs, so it would be a 12 foot.

G

Addition also, what we want to do on this site is add some green space. So we've added added a couple.

G

Of landscaped areas, and by doing that, we actually come into compliance on uh open space, um also.

G

Currently, the the dumpsters are just placed behind the building.

G

um So we push them to the rear and we're showing a fenced in corral where those dumpsters would go.

G

With some landscape buffering around them um peter, if you can go to the first sheet.

G

One of the tricky things about this site- and I don't know if anyone on the board.

G

Remembers it from the last time, but there's a catch basin close to the stark street.

G

Side and then there's a large drain line that runs directly underneath the building.

G

Over to a catch basin on the abutters side, so if we can go to the next sheet peter so.

G

That's one of the things we really want to fix that's kind of odd about this site, so we want to.

G

Reroute that drainage line by installing some catch basins.

G

And go around our addition and our building and then continue on to that existing line.

G

So pretty pretty simple um application and the end result is the site will be repaved re-striped.

G

We're going to add this 12-foot addition we're going to reroute and correct the odd drainage.

G

Line we're going to create a safe and secure fenced in dumpster, with a landscape buffer.

G

We're going to configure the parking on site and peter if you can go to the first sheet.

G

So the existing parking is kind of haphazard. If you look at parking spaces, one two three.

G

Four: five, those first spaces up by the bypass a lot of those spaces, are over the property.

G

Line and then, if you look at the side parking spaces, those are over the side, property line.

G

So peter, if you can go to the next sheet.

G

What we've done is is cleaned up that parking make it all conform and get it onto this.

G

Parcel um and again another thing we did is we added that landscaping, so we can meet open space.

G

And square off the rear of the building, so we really want to meet with you and go over.

G

Any ideas concerns comments before we go ahead. I also do have.

G

Floor plans and elevations um that I could pass around that might help you get an idea of.

G

What we're looking like, if you can pass that around nick.

M

Accessible parking space, I noticed near the front of the store- is that right, just the one? Yes.

M

That would need to be a van, so you basically need to use two of those bases right.

M

Somehow you need to accommodate that we could add an aisle yeah.

G

And as far as parking um there's many more spaces on site than is required.

G

So you have room to make that accessible. Okay, thanks.

G

So if you go to this, this latest handout.

G

If we look at drawing s3.

G

So this is the current floor plan and you can see those jobs in the rear of the building.

G

And then, if you go to s4.

G

You can see we've moved that walk-in cooler into the addition.

G

So there's much more space in the store.

G

Currently, the building is not sprinkled, we don't believe it's necessary to sprinkle. It.

G

It's served by overhead electric. There is a gas line, a water line, a sewer line.

G

There there has been a building here for decades in one form or another.

M

Square foot of that, it's probably on here somewhere, you shouldn't see it.

G

A

Okay, you might be pushing your travel distance for a single accident and not.

A

A springboard merchandise yeah. We can look at that. We, if necessary, we can add.

G

An exit and mix it up, maybe on the stacks beside there, was no coolers right.

A

You might already be the existing conditions, I'm not sure it's 75 feet.

A

Not a straight line and says you go between aisles.

M

You take the storage room as long as you made up. You have to make a.

M

Hallway, because you're ready, you can't go through the storage room itself, but.

M

You could put it down the hallway in there and there would be your second exit sure over here.

F

Yeah, actually, I'm on the wrong plane, you're right, yeah, just straight through or.

M

Next to the storage room, perfect yeah, yeah or even on that stark street.

G

Side going out the side, it kind of lends itself like a hallway currently.

F

Yeah we got some options.

G

There are other things we could look into um and we could collect that roof drainage.

G

And get that into that drain line, and I think that was previously.

G

Brought up um you know six years ago, what size green one is that uh that's a 20 inch.

F

Okay, they don't make that size, it's very odd and I think that's going to have to be confirmed. We.

G

Were down there with mac the other day we? What kind of material is it he thinks it's steel.

G

F

Okay, so um your cba b and c are all new basins right. How are you proposing to.

F

Eliminate the building.

G

Yeah so we'd have to cap that off and fill it with concrete. I think that would be the best way to go.

G

That's a that's a pretty deep line. You know over by catch basin. Four, it's almost 12 feet, deep yeah.

G

um Over by cash, basically.

F

After you reroute it right and then I didn't see you give sizes to your new pipe run.

G

I think we have some notes there to verify the existing pipe and match it.

G

Because you're right, that is an odd site, so we may want to do a test bit and verify that line.

F

Did you actually check the you're showing four foot drains? Did you actually check.

F

To make sure that four foot drains will work for that size pipe now. No, we have not.

G

And that that's a pretty complex drainage system there going back and forth across the bypass and.

G

Then down to the south, so you might need five foot structures. That's all I'm saying: okay.

D

Is there a reason, you're adding a catch basin next to that existing catch basin? One and not just.

D

Replacing it there yeah so when, when we went out there.

G

We thought it would be easier not to disturb that existing catch base and.

G

Go just a little bit downstream of that cut into that pipe and connect there.

F

You ever figure out who owns that pipe.

G

uh I do have an email into the state. I haven't heard anything back. I.

G

Would assume it's one of these things where no one has an easement? No one has any information.

G

But I want to keep tracking it down. You know if the city has any information there.

F

This is all state highways, yeah.

L

Okay on the um the easement to pet right to pass and re-pass with the.

L

Butter, I seem to remember something in the past about that being an odd easement like.

L

It wasn't sure whether or not you could use the area behind the building to access this.

L

Property like it was only maybe in front of the close to the highway, where you were allowed to.

L

Come in and out so can you just double check that or provide that easement? So we can see what that.

L

Does wow sure I remember he had concerns about traffic coming cutting across his site to burkett.

L

Street you know using the connections of local streets. I don't I don't want to exacerbate that.

L

By making it a one-way flow, forcing him all out into the back of his property, he may I don't know.

L

If he has dumpsters back there he's storing, it might be in the way of traffic circulating.

L

I

So I see on your landscape plan that you have one plant called the ladies: are they all other? Ladies.

G

um That's what we have shown right now. You know this is a pretty harsh.

G

Environment so yeah it's pretty imaginative, we're in a sea of pavement, but we can. We can add.

G

Yeah we wanted to mix that up a little bit. Yeah yeah.

C

There we go. I got a few comments, questions sure so maybe start with landscaping.

C

It seems to me it would be more value to the site and.

C

Business, if you took that quarter circle radii there that striped at the entrance.

C

As well as spaces 19 and 20, which are near the ice machine, if I'm reading it properly.

C

And moved your landscaping over there, even if you put one space back along the bypass.

C

Where you've presumably removed one, but I didn't go back toggle back and look.

C

Over in this corner, one went back in there and you remove those two in landscape more the this is the.

C

Entrance to the site, if you're coming into the gas station, this is the the way you present yourself.

C

As a visitor to this site, so I would be, I would prefer to see more landscaping here at what would.

C

Be perceived as the front entrance of the building, even though this is where you go in the front door.

C

I I don't know from the plans whether this is a raised walkway or what the surface is to separate.

C

The cars that are parked from the face of the building, if it presumably it it either needs to.

C

Be raised it's, it is a raise perfectly and then there's a handicap right in front of the door.

C

Perfect, so it seems to me like out here where, if that's the handicap, whatever this entrance.

C

Space, you know in a perfect world, that's where I'm coming from you're texturing. That.

C

It's not just pavement and it's not because you're not showing striping. I wouldn't advocate for that.

C

But that big box in front the door if everybody notices it the door right now is an enclosure. It's.

C

An airlock to get in the building right, so so you have to go in the end of that nub. It's not an open.

C

Portico, where you can just walk along the side of this raised, walkway it dead ends and tapers.

C

Awkwardly here this can't be right if the door is in the middle of that space can't be drawn right.

C

Because it tapers into here you'd step down into the pavement to go around and get in the.

C

Door, so I think you need to give that it's in your interest to give that a real, serious pass.

C

I think your walkway, I think, in the back of the building, you need to consider some sort.

C

Of walkway, from the two people, doors mandoors that are on the back- that are not publicly.

C

Accessible doors, but somebody opens that door and there's a four foot door swing on the big door and.

C

They're in the one-way traffic, if I'm reading it right in the existing and proposed condition.

C

So it seems to me: you'd want at least a surface treatment to show the driver. You.

C

Shouldn't be close to that building absolutely right, because the door opens they hit. It.

C

I would think I'm jumping around here, but I think your dumpsters would be way better in space 24.

C

And 25 than on the angled corner, so the truck can drive in back into that. So I guess that's what you.

C

Got going maybe they're better in 26 27 or over in this area, so they're perpendicular to your.

C

To your traffic pattern, so that's just that was a dead corner. I get it. We were kind of looking.

M

At it in dead space and really no parking there, you know I'd like to see if there's.

C

A better way you can configure that to maybe you lose one space, but you find a way to to.

C

Accommodate things a little better, I also think this is really awkward in space 21-23 and I get.

C

That you're you're adhering to the existing curb line for 21 and 22. But as I look at the existing.

C

Conditions from 22 all the way back around the solid waste container. That's all reset curving.

C

So I I would try and clean up your geometry here and have it be more parallel along the side of the.

C

Building so there's not this taper when you're driving that driveway and and shift 23 to be.

C

Parallel like 21 and 22, rather than introducing all these angles that are already there yeah.

M

It's a nightmare property lines. It's a nightmare. We did the fencing and kind of worked with the.

M

Landowners in the back and they're just trying to clean that area up, so I think you've made good.

C

Steps to make it better than the existing, but I think I think if you give it another pass, you can.

C

You can make this more efficient, safer to use uh and not maybe lose more than a couple of spaces.

C

Between the ada on the front for the for the band space- and maybe these two over here there's.

C

Probably a way you could rejig this corner uh and then jumping to the building. You know obviously.

C

The building lighting's gonna be important to see uh and make sure it's all dark sky compliant.

C

I think that that's it for my list and seeing the dumpster enclosure itself as a detail which may.

C

Be in here we were thinking to match the existing fence that runs along all the property of butters.

M

That that they had spent a lot of time on just to continue that around the dumpster, so it stays.

M

Yep, looking ex it's a it, just it's a black galvanized I mean. Is there any way? It's.

C

Flat yeah, I mean something will work better than that nothing's kind of what the owners.

M

Behind were were seeking yeah, they want it and it helps we put the slats in the block. Any lighting.

M

Any traffic going around that was their biggest concern and they seemed to be happy.

M

With the way it came out so far, all right, we'll include a detail or a photo of yeah.

M

Yeah, so I just want to hop back and they seem to be happy with that yeah and it stopped the light.

M

In the uh fell down during the storm, yeah yeah, so just jumping back. The last comment from me.

C

The gravel bed, that's along the bypass that you're getting out of for the parking. Is there any way.

C

Either, with our assistance or on your own, we could come up with something better for that turf belt.

C

Than a gravel bed that would not create something to obstruct the view of your business, because it's.

C

Obviously, a commercial strip business, but it seems to me a gravel bed isn't the best way to separate.

C

Your parking lot from the pavement of the bypass, if I'm reading it from some low low lying bushes,.

M

Is if you do do the mulch in the landscaping there it just it takes a beating and.

M

It just nothing lasts, the stone seemed to be.

M

Something that would last and with the snow and the plowing in the state, it can't be the best.

C

Solution so there there has to be something really hearty. Maybe a hardy ground cover.

M

You know some shrubs, some green. I don't plan, there's a lot. That'll grow in there.

H

It's invasive what'd, you say yeah, it is invasive, but it it'll it'll work better than gravel yeah.

C

We can throw some green in there to kind of break it up, it would look nicer yep and you should have.

C

As peter said uh earlier, some of these landscaped areas really need some shade trees, even if they're.

C

Ornamental figure out, you know, take enough soil out of there. You can put something in.

C

Beyond an arborvitae that grasses better than our providing sure, while we're on the subject of mulch.

A

Any mulch you use should be non-combustible or fire resistant.

D

Took you long enough yeah what.

L

Yeah alex for the the handicap spot, it should be van accessible, so it.

L

Needs to be eight foot aisle next to it for the full length, so we're gonna.

L

Remove 14, I think yeah somewhere in here, you shouldn't, have a bike rack.

D

There may be one or two staff that is a regular patron to this establishment.

H

I just want to throw that out there.

C

There's ways to get in here: I live right behind here, so.

D

I make a trip every once in a while, so you're recusing yourself, no she's, not a director.

D

I'm also not a voting member so and she doesn't drive a truck.

H

But she walks there and she says other other folks walk there. But there's a.

L

Yeah, there's a pedestrian from the station down the hill yeah yeah, just a thought street jesus.

A

A

Yeah, what's up, thank you great. Thank you.

D

Thank you thanks. Portico would be awesome. Man.

A

All right: next, we have 404 islington street.

A

N

That's right: this is a big problem.

C

We're still trying to figure out what it actually is. We'll start with that. What.

C

It is yeah what it is and what it's going to be. Oh, where do you see what it's going to be.

N

Good afternoon everybody good afternoon, I'm john bosen and I represent the applicant with me. This.

N

Afternoon's tim johnson, on behalf of the uh the applicant known for the project, john shagnan,.

N

From ambit, um you guys all probably know this property is the martin hill inn. It's been here.

N

In the city for quite a number of years right now, it consists of seven guest rooms and a caretakers.

N

In unit there's not going to be any major exterior renovations, with the exception of.

N

A code compliant handicap ramp, which will have to go before the hdc for approval.

N

But on the inside, the plan is to take the caretaker unit and make it into two units.

N

As a result, the total unit count will then be 10 units under the ordinance we're required to have.

N

13 parking spaces so we'd be looking to go to the planning board for conditional use burn on.

N

The parking, the other thing we just wanted to be completely transparent with you is that, although.

N

The parking that's presently on site works. I don't believe that the spaces are dimensionally.

N

Compliant comply with the ordinance, so I don't know if they're grandfathered, if we're going.

N

To need some relief from that, but we wanted to point that out. So there are no surprises later.

N

And then you know that you know, with the exception of you, know, the number of.

N

Parking spaces for the cup, then, potentially the dimensional reef relief for the size of the spaces.

N

We want to introduce the project to answer any questions. You may have that's really the gist.

N

Of what the project consists of, did you say? Seven units yeah and you're gonna yeah they're, currently.

N

Seven in units and any caretakers, so eight so there's eight, that's eight yeah, there's eight with.

N

The caretaker so when you split it into two, how do you work at nine got it it's renovated to ten, so.

O

Whatever the map so that'd be difficult to watch his math yeah, that's why I went to las vegas so.

N

There'd be no more caretaker. All right, so you've got 10 units. The use isn't changing. It's still.

N

Not changing and you're not adding any parking. The parking isn't changing. Just the intensity of the.

C

Uses so you need a conditional use to accommodate the larger yeah. That's right, yeah! I'm sorry.

A

There's seven and it's going to ten: yes with seven and a caretaker okay, so eight, so it had seven in.

O

Units and then there was a caretaker unit because I believe the former owner lived there yeah now.

O

That's being yeah, so there won't be a caretaker on site. It'll just be an in, so the use may not.

A

Change for zoning, but it's possible. It might change code wise from roman lodging to a hotel.

O

It's two separate buildings: if you go to the next page, you know if the caretaker unit was.

O

In the union street or the islington, so there's a building. That's right! Front's on islington.

O

And that's the one that fronts on union. uh It's basically two buildings. The lot is kind of like a.

O

A long skinny with a almost like a part of an f coming out over union street and then.

O

Just below where the union street building is an area, that's wide enough.

O

Sort of for two, but it's really one, if dimensionally so uh where you've got the number.

C

Nine, what is that parking that you own? That's the ninth parking space, okay, where's, the tenth.

O

Okay, if you go down there, isn't ten, I don't know. That's 10 units, you're, math, meister again.

O

No 10 units, no the cover letter, says I think that there might be 10 spaces.

C

But you didn't write it: oh, the guy with the class. Oh no. I thought it said 9. anyway. That was a so.

O

There's nothing: it's debatable, whether that, but up there well there's and then here can't you get two.

C

Spaces in the nine: that's what happens now right, yeah! It's it's! What happens now, but dimensionally.

O

There's about 18.6 feet between the buildings got it, so are all the other ones. Dimensionally uh no.

C

They're not right what why'd you draw them like that on down here. That's what's striped now so.

O

What we did is we existing measure, that's what's there and then we numbered but they're, like eight.

O

By ten, if you look at the strike, eight eight eight by ten striping yeah. So what would be helpful.

C

Moving forward is to dimension the actual curve to curve or whatever edge of pavement, to show.

C

Something that's more realistic to what's going on out there right than just the striping plan.

O

So if you go from the three spots on the north, three that are on the south part of the locust lot.

O

Yeah, which you could go up a little uh like 70 feet or something it's 60 feet. Six, that's only 60.

C

Yeah, it's only so these stripes are really short. Yeah, like you said yeah, and so you could stripe it.

O

However, the aisle would be geared because this is an access way that comes off a union street to the.

O

North of that garage they have a needed access and it includes the two parking spaces that straddle.

O

The property line and go towards the garage. So if people are in seven and eight with a full-size.

C

Vehicle say 18 feet: uh does that driveway function so currently it functions. Fine, there's! No! The in.

O

Has used it this way, for you have no ability to adjust the curb coming into that catch basin to.

C

Widen that uh can we go back to the first sheet? I think so I think that's in the easement area, yeah.

D

That would be a huge benefit if, if again food for thought, that's all yeah yeah. If we wanted to add.

C

If you add five or six feet to that at the tape at the end, then you wouldn't have that problem.

C

Of these cars blocking- I don't know, what's in there for vegetation that would have to go. That's.

C

I can take a look at some pictures. Doesn't that make sense here? Did you follow what I said.

L

I'm looking at an aerial photo and there's a car about the length of the garage behind.

L

There in those short spaces, so it doesn't look like it's blocking the the aisle way.

L

The car parked at the garage seven and eight don't block the driveway, I'm looking at at an area. Yeah.

L

There's a car parked in the area. Yes over there yeah it's not not extending past the garage.

C

But uh so it's the driveway aisle that's excessively narrow for the code.

C

But it works anyway, you're not proposing to change anything, at least. Is that what you're saying today.

C

In what you're showing us right, it's the existing is the proposed for parking. Is that correct? We're.

O

Saying that yeah and looking for some advice as to whether you thought that was gonna work, we should.

O

Dimension it up and get a variance because they're smaller or if it's correct, existing conditions in.

O

Grandfather because, because you'll still be short on the number of parking spaces, we still want to.

N

Be sure we'll still have to use yeah and that's where you're going to run into opposition from the.

L

Neighborhood, because their parking is critical in this area yeah, and they don't want to see anybody.

L

Coming in with less parking than they need, what do we want to see? Is it not? So let me just go back to.

C

What you got here today, it sure, looks to me, like it's possible, with some adjustments on.

C

Your own property, next to four. That again, I don't know what's on the ground, but it might be a huge.

C

Oak tree there, but it seems, like you, could add a parking space somewhere between four and eight.

C

On the flanks and dimensions notwithstanding of the driveway, and it would seem to be, if.

C

You're, going through planning board for a conditional use permit for parking. I you.

C

Know I'm having a hard time seeing why this wouldn't be grandfathered the parking that's.

C

Already there, the new stuff you create would presumably need to be dimensionally correct, but.

C

Sending sending it to every board in the city for that that just seems excessive.

F

You need to confirm that space inside into the drainage system.

F

Okay, the one in the parking lot correct, yeah.

O

And if it's a leaching catch basin.

F

Not it's a leaching catch basin in that soil they could more for, like a fountain like the bellagio.

C

And I mean if you have two two cars parking in space: nine. Now it's what's the difference.

C

Between that and the eight that don't fully reply below, I would call it nine ten, okay.

C

Which, what's that do to you, so then we're back? If you were at 10 and you you need how many.

C

13., okay, you still need the uh conditional use permit, even if.

C

We got to 10 and if you got to 11 down below you'd still you can't get to 13.

C

Do you need planning board approval for the conditional use permit? These trains are tightened.

F

Did we extend it up? That's the spot, so are any of the spaces. That's where we talked about it. Yes,.

A

None of the spaces are compliant as far as our dimensional one two three could be.

C

Could they think I'm sure some of those would be not the way they're striped, but there's enough.

C

Parking area to make some of them comply right. 60 feet is um two feet short of 19 24, 19., okay,.

O

So the aisle would be non-compliant and you could make most of the parking compliant. The.

C

Aisle width would be definitely a sore spot peter. I just want to concur. I want your concurrence that.

H

We would not require uh the existing parking, we would just consider it existing conditions and.

H

Not require those to be dimensioned in accordance with the current standards.

A

Well, that's what I'm constantly.

H

Yeah and again just cautioning you, there will be a lot of scrutiny from the neighborhood on this.

L

Parking situation, which is why I wouldn't draw them this way.

C

This this is totally unclear unless you're a user, why those lines are so short.

H

They did a proven in with a cp for an end. They they approved a cup for an end recently.

H

That had less parking than this in the downtown area yeah on court street. So I don't I mean I.

H

Recognize there's a whole different context here, but there is an argument to me just when you do.

H

You know your cp just provide me some detail in the analysis of how it meets the criteria.

H

Because it requires a parking impact statement of some kind. But just if you can put some detail in.

H

That, because I'll pull from that for the report and demand analysis, it calls for a parking impact.

H

Statement or something remember what that's called something of that nature: that maybe it is analysis.

H

Yeah parking impact report or something like that, but uh I think on the last one we just.

H

Had a cover letter, but if you can whatever detail you can provide, I think they talked about how they.

H

Managed reservations and how that was a component of how they managed parking and what the existing.

H

Conditions are and how that I think, they're very interested right now about how the existing.

H

Parking has served the uses and what that's looked like and that that seems to be very.

H

Compelling to them to understand how it's met the existing uses will be good part of that.

H

Story and that you manage reservations so that you understand how that could go, and then proximity.

H

Of I think that's some of the other things that are required in the.

H

Statement- proximity of I guess, transit or proximity of other.

H

Parking garage, just a summary of that, will be helpful in the narrative and so okay.

O

You haven't had a chance to look up the history of this place as far as with their previous.

O

Variances, no I haven't we can we can do that. No to you know in case there's already been a.

H

Variance for the parking you mean or for the end yeah over the years I mean the ian's been.

O

In the neighborhood for a long time, okay, I think I don't know where martin hill is.

F

What's that, do you know where martin hill is that's no question? 404 is a good.

D

I mean my googling didn't come up much, but maybe someone else knows because it's someone named.

H

I thought you knew dave, I was going for the fun spot. I was too, I was haters, but you know something.

M

Sounds good on the website yeah behind the garage next to space eight, it appears to be paved on your.

C

Existing and proposed conditions correct, yeah, but the easement. I know the easement doesn't go there.

C

So who's using that space, probably the person that owns that a lot can maintain their garage.

O

So it wouldn't be a bad idea for you in preparing an application that you consider getting the right.

C

To maintain and use that space to make your case, it exists and there's almost a space there and.

C

Eight six eight feet, yeah an eight eight appears to be. I don't know I can't I haven't, got a scale.

C

But if you go from here to here, there's probably the ability to get one more space. I know it.

C

But I would, I would go into it that your driveway aisle is your non-compliance.

C

Calculation, so then you could technically add parking spaces as long as you complied.

H

And I would try and move that.

H

It was that's very surprised.

C

Where's the ramp going, I'm curious yeah, I have a sketch. If you want it's so the only physical.

O

Work is a ramp.

O

On the left side of the building in the front, I see you guys near.

D

The onion street side street side and then out of there.

C

Some uh proposed mechanical locations, which are sketched out there too,.

C

Is it? Is it a wood, uh ramp or architecture right here, yeah.

H

So it is a, it is a parking demand analysis, but really, if you could just take a look at the.

H

Criteria and provide that in their narrative, that's very helpful to me when I um make the.

H

Planning the recommendation and summarize and provide your analysis and it's helpful, I think, on.

I

Corkstraight they're able to offer some off-site marketing options. I don't know if that's something.

I

They own some property, offsite yeah, but.

H

But they weren't as close. This is a lot closer. They had yeah, they had a lot fewer spaces.

D

Gonna get rid of the papers in the second half of the circle.

C

Yeah, you probably should remove. What's out there.

C

So how do you get to the walkway behind it if you're ramping up to a door, are there steps to.

C

Get down how many rooms now maybe 10. and that's proposed for additional- totals total ten total.

D

And there's not a caretaker, so the caretaker doesn't need a unit anymore, so that.

H

That that's different than also court street yeah, it's not very large operationally. That's.

D

Where you're going to write those steps with the bootstrapper on it between.

C

To execute that parking still, there just help me with that, and that helps me how you manage.

H

That how that typically works out and how you've managed so far, and do you find that you use all.

H

The spaces just out of curiosity, just because I wonder if that in parking calculation is a little.

D

You know the current owners I'll have to I can you know, get all that intelligent detail right now.

H

That you can utilize.

O

People trying to listen to the um so go ahead. Peter you can. You can excuse me we'd, like to we'd.

H

Like to bring the meeting back into a one single conversation, we don't have minutes for this. Do we.

A

So, where are we? We? I think we discussed the uh some of the information we'd like to see in the.

H

Parking analysis- and I think you have some good ideas about information to include in that, so I.

H

Look forward to seeing that, whatever else what's out there, there's a lot of conversations going on.

O

So I guess, if we submit for regular attack planning board.

O

We would be not go to the zba because, as long as we don't change anything with the existing.

O

Partners, I think we'd like to confer about that. I think that's my general feeling about it, but I.

H

Just want to confer with staff is that, okay, that we yeah, we think that it would. We would call that.

H

Existing conditions and- and I think part of what yeah I think we would and they've been utilized.

H

That way, as in you haven't seen, I mean people use them in single parking spaces it. If there's.

H

A big vehicle it doesn't take up all right, so I think that's what the staff yeah just let us know.

O

Because we don't want to get out of it right now, we're going to say that and if I, if there's if I.

H

After looking at the code, if I find a reason, that's different, a different determination, I.

H

Will let you know, but right now we're going to say we're going to look at those as existing conditions and any new parking would have to come into compliance. Okay, okay,.

H

Pretty good, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay,.

O

Let us know about the vba history: if you could.

A

D