City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Trees & Greenery Committee, 8 Dec 2021

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From YouTube: 12.08.21 Trees & Public Greenery Committee

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A

A

Request 191 present way home country requested removal by the president, so the resident was.

B

Planning on uh tuning in via zoom, but it doesn't look like they are here. um The issue is, they have.

B

Had um I'm not that knowledgeable on how to handle this, I believe that this person isn't uh getting.

C

Hi patricia: can you hear us.

A

Oh there you go, can you hear me now? Yes, we can great.

B

um Patricia would you like to just uh speak a little bit about the issue you're having just to.

B

um Help us all understand with the tree out there sure yes, so um I've had to have the um seacoast.

D

Sewer and drain company come three times um since august because of roots invading the pipes, the.

D

The last time was just a few days ago they came and I was able to watch with the camera while they.

D

Again removed more roots, it is the roots were quite large and in my area, but they were also.

D

The the pipeline video shows that the roots are also near this in the city area also, so the tree.

D

Has buckled the sidewalk and then again the roots are invading um my sewer lines. So that is why the.

D

Tree is also full of a lot of woodpecker holes. Many many woodpecker holes, so I don't know that.

D

It's the healthiest tree to begin with, so that is why I was asking to have it removed.

A

Thank you patricia any questions for patricia.

C

Charlie, have you had a chance to get out and see the tree? I have yeah, I'm not quite sure.

C

What street we're talking about good-sized elements just up from the intersection of.

E

They're not going after insects in the trees.

B

The sidewalk panels are buckled, yeah.

E

Goes and drills three or four holes, you know sometimes half a dozen holes in a row generally.

E

In fruit trees, but you know you can drill holes in anything, um the wood vectors that we're watching.

E

Like for eab, and all that kind of stuff we're actually going after insects that are in there.

E

So there's wooden peckers that go after you know, trees that have insects, and you know woodpeckers.

E

Know that there's covering rats and big old blind kids so they go and drill those holes for them. So.

E

They're eating something that's already eating or impacting the tree. This one is actually drilling.

E

Holes to get other insects to come and eat the sap that comes out of the tree and then.

E

They come back and eat the sap covered. Whatever insects was eating, it's kind of a kind of a venus.

E

It's a really, you know it's a really smart little. You know way to do it, but those holes that you.

E

Know they do cause damage to the mark of the tree and they do cause some damage to the tree itself.

E

But they're not you know, they're not going after. You know the tree's not hollow. It's, not full of.

E

Copper ants or whatever else, just because of the popular you know that kind of stuff are different.

E

Woods that are attractive. So this is, you know, just a series of little holes. You'll see them. You know.

E

They're all over loaded with it. I don't know why I don't know, but I can't I can't explain that so in.

C

Your opinion, it's a tree, distressed and ready to shut down the trees stretch, but it's not you know.

E

It's not in a situation where the trees, failing as a result of this, um it's an elm, so it's got.

E

Like b crotch branches, it's very possible that it has dutch elm disease. I didn't see any dead limbs.

E

Way up in the ground, you know, there's no leaves on it. So it's tough! You can't see that it's flagging.

E

And we've had these discussions, you know about pipes and roots numerous times. The pipes are.

E

Disjointed broken crack plus yeah, I don't know, what's going on with the pipes um and we found in.

E

Right specifically in land tight, we've worked on a couple of these situations, with your guys in.

E

The past that the pipes were, you know short little chunks of pipes, pipes leak a little bit the tree.

E

Knows this moisture, you know it's an opportunistic situation right, so minimum her pipes need to be.

E

You know fixed repair dug up relax. You know whatever they're going to do to fix the pipes.

E

If this tree's in that close proximity, it's come, it's not going to make it after that construction.

E

Happens: anyways depending on the proximity. You know the street could be right on top. You know.

F

Right, I was just just being new. I was just wondering to zoom out to hear about what.

F

Trees and roots and pipes are all about yeah, so I can speak to that. I mean historically.

C

We have not removed trees uh because of root intrusion or because of cyborg uh buckling.

C

It's you know, it happened, it happens all over the city and um you know really. We.

C

Point to the the residents just telling them that you know your sewer collateral is.

C

Disrepair and it needs to be depleted. um Your point about the tree is damaged in that process.

C

You know, then, then the tree will fail over time, uh but we're not always sure you know.

C

If that's going to be the case, if the sewer service is lined up a slip line, instead of dug up.

C

um It can be done in a manner that doesn't damage the tree, our root system. So you know you know it's.

C

It's a bit of a um past precedent um situation for the committee. I would I would say- um and I.

C

You know, obviously you know, depending on how the committee feels about it. You know.

C

We will I'll work with you on it, but I just you know: in the past we've told people that you.

C

Know fix your sewer service um versus taking the tree, but if the trees are already in decline,.

C

You know fixing the sewer service entails, destroying the tree.

C

Then I can, I can see why we would decide.

C

But it's it's clear, though, patricia that you know, even if the tree is gone, um you.

C

Should be planning to replace your sewer service? Yes, I'm working with the um with.

D

The person that owns the other side um and trying to move forward with that, yes, okay.

E

Do they happen to tell you where the line is in relation to the tree.

D

um The line runs directly from my front door straight to the walkway straight to the tree.

A

Fight through the existing slip, sleeves.

C

It depends on how bad the pipe service is at services. um It's not a preferred.

C

Solution um because the connection at the main is often you know it's a pvc uh fabric, that's a.

C

Fabric, that's impregnated with pvc. That's slipped in and expanded out with pressure, so the seal.

C

At the point of connection, isn't always great, so you can get infiltration so the preferred method.

C

Is to go to the main and to connect a solid connection all the way, instead of at the main.

C

Sleeve slip line like that, but typically slip lines are used with in situations where you.

C

It's a digless type of thing if it goes under a building, if there's really no way to get at it,.

C

You know in this in this case they can get at it, uh but it does entail damaging the tree.

C

So you know again if the trees are already showing signs of distress.

C

It may be a limited benefit and a sewer service is a 50 to 100 year investment. So it's a new.

C

Trade planted on top of it would not have the same impacts. Modern technology, modern piping,.

D

Peter yes, we, when this um seacoast sewer, was there. We also had two local contractors. There.

D

Looking at it- and they all agreed that I could not just do that- slip um thing that you were.

D

Describing the sleeve um we had asked about that also and that it does have to be completely dug up.

A

These have been some of the toughest uh cases we've had.

A

um Trying, I don't know, we've heard one where.

A

The minor problems.

C

You know, I believe this tree was planted probably 10 years ago.

C

um As part of a sewer rehabilitation program um out of that neighborhood, we just needed some.

C

More curbing and put sidewalks in so I don't believe it's um legacy type of long-term tree.

C

So I I don't, I I'm comfortable we're planting 100 plus trees a year.

C

That we can probably put something in and have something establish itself relatively quickly.

C

That area, so I would be comfortable uh making the motion to proceed with the removal of this tree.

A

I'll start with the motion.

A

And we um just discussion qualify that.

A

There's some unusual circumstances here that um we've had situations where.

A

It was very questionable whether the tree that was being requested for removal, whether really.

A

Was having effective on the pipes in this case, it sounds like there's pretty good evidence that.

A

This tree is a problem.

A

I think it's evaluation of the tree also being a young tree with.

A

A ton of zap sucker holes um is much different than if it's a historic tree just looking forward.

A

If we come across that issue, that's just the eco benefits alone are not even close to the same.

A

So, just to put that on the record that this is, I hate to say, easily replaceable. But it's easier.

A

To replace this tree with two trees and catch up to where we were in 10 years than it is to.

A

Replace something that's taken: 150 years.

A

So peter I see your point that you're not sure that this would establish a precedent.

A

For the next time that you were faced with this situation and someone same way, you did it.

A

Yeah, I just want to make sure that we.

A

I've got stuff on the record saying this. These are special circumstances here.

A

I just think we have clarified that it's we turned these trend, requests or removed trees.

A

Down in the past, um where there was an impact on pipes, but that we turned down north church for.

A

um Foundation, we looked at a basement a number of times and finally,.

A

Had more and more impact.

A

A

Any other discussion- okay! Well, I I recognize the importance of precedence.

A

But it seems to me there's a couple of extenuating factors here. One is that.

A

The tree is not that old if it were a superpower, historical.

A

Might be a different population, I realize we can't mandate what corner does with the lateral, but I.

A

Think we should strongly recommend that we will not plant more trees or atria in that area without.

A

The lateral being replaced is that reasonable, peter.

C

Yeah yeah, I think that's a reasonable condition.

A

So, um just to repeat that the motion was to remove the tree, but not replant. It.

C

That's cool until documentation that the service had been replaced.

C

And perhaps we could clarify or just making more pointed in the minutes to say that.

C

The reason this is acceptable is because the age of the tree, because of the indication of stress on.

C

The tree and the proximity direct location of the sewer main, a pseudolateral that would be impacted.

C

As part of the repair, the repair option has been indicated that it's not a slip line, type of repair.

C

That's my understanding as well. Yes, um it's like they just. um I guess question.

A

Or just comment about the discussion of a younger tree versus a historic tree. I don't want.

F

It to sound as though we are disregarding a tree because of its youth, I think they're all valuable.

A

I understand the point I just don't want the point to get lost sure. Well, that's a good point that.

A

Our normal discussion around this table- it frequently is um frequently, but it's.

A

That well, this is getting towards the end of its useful life from life. Life expectancy.

A

I know that makes me probably dick rather unconscious.

A

Okay, we have a motion.

A

196 colonial drive.

D

Thank you very much. Thank you.

D

196 colonial drive- I don't know if any of you have a chance to look at that one, but.

D

We just need to remove that. It's uh it's been improved.

B

It's a lot of those limits were planted directly under uh high voltage wires and.

B

As a result, the utility company has to do their maintenance. It's just the wrong trees for them.

B

In the wrong place- and I think it's just kind of a stage thing- I took a drive through there's.

B

More than one, but I just figured start with that, one there's a couple more down the road or the.

B

One right next to it's scheduled for world war ii yeah. I saw some some eversource tape, so I'm sure.

C

Scott will be in touch, but that one I figured we could proactively uh get rid of. So this actually.

C

Is a good opportunity to talk about sidewalks program, that's being started in that neighborhood.

C

There's been requests over the years to replace the sidewalks.

C

Throughout penalty manner, we're holding a public meeting next month soon we advertised for a survey.

C

To get input from the residents, uh so there's likely going to be um a number of trees that we.

C

Probably should review um because of the proximity to the sidewalk and the keeping in the sidewalk.

C

And if they are in a similar condition, perhaps what we can do is come back a list of trees.

C

That we anticipate that would be impacted and then come up with a replanting program.

B

And speaking of replanting yeah 196.

B

The other tree is slated for removal. Yes, so we are going to plant two trees there. This.

B

Spring I talked to the property owner. She was excited about that.

B

So peter, how fast does the sidewalk to the thing move forward? Should we delay that.

C

It's the existing established trees um that are problematic, we're getting the roots.

C

um You know I I can't I mean the the request to do deal with. The sidewalks has been there for a while.

C

um The wheels of government move slow, sometimes and resources aren't always available sure, but.

C

This is something that's been uh requested and there's a bit of pressure to move it forward.

C

We're thinking, I don't believe it would be this construction season coming up, uh but it may it.

C

May happen, but we you know we're going to get some input from the residents. um You know one of the.

C

Options is that you remove all the sidewalks, because it's a very low volume traffic area.

C

And then people can reclaim the lawn in front. You just have green spaces that have sidewalks.

C

So that's one option, that's interesting! So it's a nice big, green! You know.

C

A lot of green strips, you know pretty tight yeah, it's actually a nice big spot.

C

Yeah, it's you know, I could see. You know some residents, you know, but then it comes down to you.

C

Know because currently it's not maintained during the winter, because the width of the sidewalks so.

C

But that's that's part of the design process. That's part of getting in.

C

The residence and trying to figure out how to balance all the needs, but there is quite a few.

C

Mature trees uh in the neighborhood that could be impacted, so we will obviously be.

C

Careful and make sure come up with a plan that we think is going to balance the needs.

F

How do you what's the general procedure when you work with working with homeowners for choosing.

F

A tree um like just a location in terms of locations, yeah or variety yeah, so the variety is.

B

Basically, grouped uh I put the order together in large and small meaning large is anything that.

B

Grows over 25 feet, smallest thing that stays under or that under 30, never source mentions.

B

So anything, that's under any sort of wire is going to be a small tree, so it's usually.

B

Ornamentals, I just basically what I do is when we put the order together for shikdels. I just.

B

Get as many different species as I can, and that's really limited on how many other towns are doing.

B

The same thing there's a lot, so the nursery has to make everyone happy. So we don't get to get.

B

Everything, but um we do get variety, so it's usually just when I put the order together. I don't.

B

Everything is grouped into large or small species is not selected. What I'll do is I'll say? I have.

B

50 small sites and 50 large and I'll go through and do as much variety in the same consistency.

B

Throughout for the order- and then we just plant according to that not to make each homeowner.

B

Happy with species because that's impossible um so really it'll be. If you look at the order, that's.

B

When you see the diversity, as we have five of these five of these five of these eight of these.

B

I think last year we didn't really go over about eight of one species.

B

And then, as far as reaching out to the homeowners, a lot of it is the opposite. They reach out to me.

B

Or we do a removal- and it's negotiated that we're going to replant here and that's.

B

Last year was the first unit we just picked sites such as madison street.

B

um Kent street we picked sites that really were just lacking canopy.

B

So that was not really, uh there was no negotiations with residents, it was just.

B

We're reforesting this area out of all those trees, I think maybe two or three property owners.

B

Called and said no way, and at this point we did not plant in front of their house.

B

But there's not that much pushback yeah, but we just.

B

Do it, I think that that really made a difference in terms of reforesting where we just don't have.

B

Canopy and also um improving efficiency on the watering route, because there's so much watering.

B

To do, and now we upped the amount of trees, um it's tough! If you have two trees here and then.

B

On the other side of town there, so you could hit divide these roots and hit. You know: 10 trees in.

B

20 minutes versus the amount of driving it takes so this year dennis street is a good example of.

B

A street that's getting a lot of trees partially because of the eversource removals.

B

But knowing that we have five trees, one up on the top of dennis street.

B

We're already going to be here, watering: where can we look for no canopy and just put in a.

A

Bunch of trees, so we found a couple sites. I will I'm still putting the list together right now,.

A

We're at about 65 trees to get up to you, know 100 again nursery just listed their availability.

A

On monday, so that is, uh I would like to just order the trees and worry about the rest of.

A

The locations later because last year was stiff competition with other communities.

A

B

This is the property owner of 174 echo.

B

Noticed this large sugar maple and just had some concerns about it, and I did go out and.

B

The back side of the tree does have a giant pocket of detail walked up to it.

B

She's not that concerned, but I could go either way on it. I mean it. Could I think it could.

B

Exist there for 20 more years or 20 more days. I think it just depends on what type.

B

Of weather event we have, and if it does fall, it probably will knock down uh her [ __ ]. um However,.

B

She expressed that she's not going to be in her shed in a weather event.

B

So I mean yeah the probably a tree lover here. The resident is very uh open to either option.

B

But I I was kind of in favor of removing just because now that I I know about it, it is a super.

B

Substantial bit of decay on the back side, and on top of that, the entire canopy is, on the other side.

B

um The only issue is that's going to be a tricky uh tree. Removal.

E

As far as I recall, that lot is because I've actually worked in there.

E

Like a abandoned lottery like there's a whole lot.

E

I always watch the city, you can drop it, you can grab it on the back of the ground's. Yours.

E

You know we're getting properly.

C

um Next to hers that the.

C

So there's three locks along the uh one: two five five blocks along that block from woodlawn.

C

Circle to hillcrest drive this first slot on the corner is the 174.

A

The tree's right here right yeah, I'm just wondering if I can pull this up.

C

So I can throw this.

E

And there's some of a wooded area across the street as well.

E

Is that city as well at the end of that that's interesting, I'm not sure.

B

If I've never worked back in there, the woman who was walking past when I was there.

C

You guys have never used this app. It's a great resource for residents,.

E

You just got the crash course on right: there, yeah yeah, ten clicks and the things that were going.

B

Yeah, we don't maintain that and it's showing that, as all part of.

B

Giant squares, all part of that, so that's so that one there is 174 and.

C

That's where the tree, that's the city lot, and so, if we look at street view.

A

Oops here we go.

B

Congratulations, so all the branches are definitely on one side of it.

B

Yep and the decay is on the side of the branches are not gone.

B

So, on this side, here yeah, what? If you? What if you took the branches off and left the stub, I think.

B

That's a great idea to take the branches off and we could leave another habitat. I love that.

C

It's always amazes me that we have these just digital blocks,.

C

Why do we have this believe it or not? This slot has been.

C

I haven't done a lot of work in the fun I mean it's pretty cool, I mean it's like.

C

There's a lot of trees, I mean chuck, wouldn't it be worth going in and thinning this out and just like.

C

Yeah, take a nice little time to understand improvement project.

F

Educational moments.

B

Hey I'm up for all sorts of options with that. A lot.

C

All right, well, okay, so that was that's that fun tour. Thank you very interesting. So the motion.

A

Peter stief is going to be here. He had a uh covered booster shot yesterday.

A

Not feeling well, I've got an email from me on this morning. He was at night.

F

Even thought you know he's kind of he's overextended right now, so let's just wait until he gets out of so that we have time.

F

But thank you. Peter um discussion never saw us pruning demands on facts and.

F

The more I talk with a chuck and the department there's so much wonderful stuff going on and.

F

I get asked a lot about what's going on as we're sort of all agreement.

F

Ambassadors of the city, and since it is recorded, it's really a good opportunity.

F

For um the citizens to find out what is going on, so I thought we might add to our agenda a city.

F

Arborist moment and chuck could just you know, give us what's going on so yeah.

B

Yes, we can improve, um we can work together to improve how we put stuff together, whether it's.

B

Some sort of outreach, but the point was um that empath, I think many folks I mentioned that we do.

B

A lot of things, but no one knows we do. What is the way that we get that to folks uh the information.

B

So this month, just as a quick one- and it was a little last minute and I apologize for not.

B

Having more information on it, but we max our arborist in the field uh we've targeted.

B

All the aldrich um sugar made uh silver maples uh to do retrenchment perimeter.

B

This uh I have some literature I can't send out on return, but basically.

B

Trees go uh through natural or transfer trees on their own. That's when they often start losing.

B

Large limbs and reducing their canopy to focus on fibrous root production, really it's their way of.

B

Living longer, um silver maples are a great example of having these massive uh giant kind of leggy.

B

Limbs that I grow out and often it's associated with storm damage may get a little bit of a bad.

B

Wrap because of that, but um at the end of the day the aldrich uh silver maples are a great example.

B

Of massive trees that we want to stick around because they are unique to that street provider of.

B

Shade eco benefits um and they did. We were worried because of some sidewalk construction. That was.

B

Done six or seven years ago that we were going to lose them, we did experience decline. So what we did.

B

Was probably a year and a half ago, maybe two years ago now we started going through it doing a heavy.

B

Retrenchment which is really just a reduction in canopy, we were doing large ones, anticipating that.

B

One, if we don't do it they're gonna, do it themselves anyways.

B

um And two there was a desire for it's kind of a fear around a lot of these big trees over.

B

Residents- homes yeah- I don't want this over our house, so we did really big 10 to 12 foot.

B

Reductions in the canopy overall, as well as deadwood and the results have been.

B

Awesome, it's been kind of like a textbook example of what retrenchment can do.

B

Some species are not great to do it on, like an oak, for example, isn't as vigorous, let's say as a sugar.

B

Silver maple, so we can kind of get away with making these really big cuts.

B

You see it a lot if you've ever been the.

B

In boston the elms there in the uh common they look shocking at first.

B

But they're so old and they're maintained through retrenchment to focus on reproduction.

B

Another place if you've ever been to london and you've seen a lot of the trees around the.

B

Wherever I was the palaces and stuff, I was like buckingham palace and all those there's a lot.

B

Of trees that I'm looking at like it looks so horrible, and then you realize they were four.

B

Or 500 years old and there's a reason uh and this anyways we're kind of doing that. And I don't think.

B

Many other communities are doing that it was unique and max. Our arbors has learned.

B

About that, since uh he was new to that coming from denver, that was not being done.

B

There's some trees that we do we're trying to be proactive and you look as, as might have been.

B

Too much but the silver maple is a great example they're, so vigorous. If you come back six months.

B

Later, a year later- and it's uh you've really created this dense canopy, it's just produced.

B

So I think it's a mix of managing risk and also keeping these trees around.

B

Just a little bit and do when you, when you do things like that, I know on my street when.

F

Something gets really pruned back. You know, I'm like. I can't stand that um so do you. How did you.

F

Communicate that to the neighborhood. Yes, that's a great question, so um aldrich we actually were.

B

Very welcomed there and we did not get any pushback that I recall, um which is surprising.

B

uh But you're right sometimes we do a deadwood prune with no reduction. I'm talking just intro.

B

Larger deadwood and we get horrible feedback, and a lot of that is nothing. We've done it's more just.

B

It's the utility company and they're going to kill my tree, so what we do is just explain to them.

B

Max and steve are really great at walking residents through, what's going on, why we do it.

B

It's really going to provide better aesthetics to their property anyways. We, that is a good.

F

Question it's something we do a lot. It's uh try to educate folks right, so I was wondering.

F

Peter are there ways that we could use like you know the trees and greenery.

F

Website section and have links to retrenched um um chuck did send me uh some literature but she's.

F

Been upset to you guys about the retrenchment it's very laid out. It's very simple. It's very usable.

F

But it was like. Oh all, right I get it, you know so we're all on the same side. So I wondered if.

F

There were ways that we could use our section on our city website, which is said, pat said it's. It's.

F

Hard to sift through uh the city website there's a lot of information. I'm just wondering about you.

F

Know how we can educate and outreach. I don't know if that's a possibility, but just highlighting it.

C

Absolutely- and I like who said the arborist moment, you know we could create like a little mini.

C

Newsletter and just post it on that page, um and I think this is a great example, and if you you know.

C

If you were willing to help gather the information and help digest it put it into a person's terms,.

C

Yes, um that could be uploaded to the to the web page, and uh it would be a great you know and.

C

Then put in the newsletter- and I think it'd be a really nice way of communicating the.

C

Value that the tax dollars that are being spent um to the residents, um because they don't understand.

C

You know what this committee does and what what chuck and his team do, and the value of princesses.

C

So I think you know you know once a month or once a quarter. We do.

C

Do something, and if you can provide assistance to help that move forward.

C

That'd be great okay, I can now work with chocolate. We can talk more about that.

E

Part of putting that together, one thing would be good to talk about is what the industry should.

E

Be moving away from and isn't uh this lion's tail pruning uh or crown thinning or call it.

E

Whatever you want so for years, you've cut a hole in the center of the tree. You took.

E

All the inside branches- I let the wing go through, so you've got less potential storm damage less. You.

E

Know moving of those limbs um a lot of companies, unfortunately, are still doing that. We know that we.

E

Shouldn't be doing that we've learned from storms, we've learned for everything else that leaving.

E

All the brush at the end of a limb uh causes that you know to be able warming or a full perimeter.

E

You know whatever else the limb. Actually you know long slender limb, with a lot of weight or a lot.

E

Of brush up that far in has caused more problems. uh Unfortunately, what chuck's doing is cutting.

E

That off and for the last 20 30 years we've been telling people to do that. um So, if he's cutting.

E

That off and trying to shrink the tree up um we're trying to go with what nature's you know, we're.

E

Finally, learning what the right way to do is it's a moving target um so explaining what has been.

E

Done in the past, and why we're doing something different in the future can help bring some of.

E

Those folks along uh and get them to understand why you know why we're doing something like this.

E

You know I did it on hundreds of trees all over kittery. You know everywhere, but you know 25 30,.

E

Years ago, just what you did and so so getting people to see that there's a different way or.

E

A new way to do that, so I met a gentleman over the weekend, who is an arborist in philadelphia.

F

And they've adopted um they, they are pruning for the wind that climate change is changing. There's.

F

Going to be high winds and they're pruning towards that um I'll. Tell you more about that! He's really.

F

Interesting, I'm sure you're probably already dead aj. I don't know if you have um resources.

C

That you know you guys, must use letters and stuff like that, so we probably could leverage. You know.

C

Some of the stuff that you're doing right maybe attach links to your stuff. So that way, just you.

C

Know broader educational effort, I think that's a great great idea and it's something that you know.

C

Because of the lack of bandwidth and less frankly, lack of sophistication from our side historically.

C

um We didn't have that resource, but you know with chuck and his team uh with you all.

C

You know we really were able to do things more and get. You know really develop a program and.

C

It's I mean: we've become light years. You know I'm very proud of the work that our department's done.

C

And with the support of you all that we've been able to move this forward, so it's it's great. It's.

C

A great example of good evolution of government yeah. You thought that you know like, for example,.

F

When we to have the open plan project talked about that, you know to invite people to say. Oh.

F

This is going to be happening tune in you know you want to hear, because that would assume it's.

F

So easy to do that. So maybe we do have some educational moments through the year that.

F

You give the public opportunity to come and hear about it. It's our coverage. Well, thank.

C

You for taking that initiative sure the other part of that item number four factor.

A

A

Contact us, if you have a question, I know my name is steve context and I hadn't heard that, but.

B

I just I don't oversee that and they are really.

B

Only pruning for the clearance of the maintenance of their power.

B

So there's not much, I can do there, they need a certain amount of clearance and that's that.

B

So what we can do is come in after the factory they've looked at it from a power standpoint and.

B

They move on, we can come in after the fact to look at it as like a treehouse standpoint, but.

B

Yeah, I don't have any say over that, so if they.

A

Really destroy it.

E

You know he can look at a dream, be like look like. There's gonna, be nothing left to us. So then.

E

Those come to you know those come to us or they're gonna, go to check and be like look. We should just.

E

You know this tree should be taken out before it's pruned as hard as we need basically they're.

E

Pruning the box around the trees so depending what they have for power, whether it's you know single.

E

Phase or three phase power but they're turning the box eight by eight by ten by fifteen, uh is.

E

What they're you know: they're trying to prune that corner, uh because, statistically that's where their.

E

You know just like that, all the work we did on a little there was trees that were just too close.

E

Too much too much going on those trees at some point yeah. I think the goal to avoid this maybe.

E

Not as much in my generation but for the future is to plant the right trees in the right size. So.

B

Eventually, there aren't silver maples that are wrapped around the uh triple phase wires. It's just.

B

Small small trees and then you have large trees on the other side of the street. When there aren't.

B

Wires and that's them, unfortunately, we're in a time where that's not the case, we can only do.

B

So much because it really goes back to it's the wrong tree for the sunspread. Everything.

E

And we've been dealing with some linens out there for you know years yeah, you know before.

E

Before most of the this committee was on his committee, we've been dealing with trees out there.

E

And it's been nice to have those trees open, but just you know it's a tough spot for that tree.

E

And a lot of those yards are huge. I mean it'd be perfect to just push that tree back.

E

15-20 feet get, you know, get it off the road get off the sidewalk, get it off.

E

Everywhere, because it's sidewalks on both sides of you know a lot of that road.

E

So if you get rid of one sidewalk, you know whatever, but you know it's three phase. Five.

E

Why there's that much power up there, but this three phase power, so that takes a lot of space.

E

At the top of those poles yeah, it's like it's what I was told. It's actually.

E

It's the old 220, so it's exposed it's the three that are vertical.

E

Which, I guess is archaic, so I don't know if that'll go to the future.

E

The tree next to the one you're taking out it's already guarded and the wires have been in you know, burning in the side of that tree for a few.

A

um Days on commercial valley and pierce island planting homes, commercial alley, I'm just in the.

B

Process of uh scheduling the power shutdown for monday or tuesday, that's in eversource's hands, but.

B

We'll be able to get it, I'm not worried about that, and pierce island is um really as soon as.

B

We get uh some hard frost that we can just make a mess out there. I'd say possibly next week, but.

B

We're still in this kind of 47 degrees, 30 at night, it's it's been wet out there. So anyways we're just.

B

Just leave a variety and if someone else on the other committee has a issue, we can.

C

Cross that bridge, when we get there, okay, okay, I've spoken to a couple people. They like the idea of.

F

Sort of a commemoration- you know commemorative gestures, so it's better to just give it a try.

F

We left a few of our points and they're all standing there.

E

Well, no uh just uh leaving them as far oh okay.

F

Remind people that there was this room.

A

um Any old business.

B

I did promise this last time. This is just a really brief note on our tree uh damage.

B

Ordinance we have talked about and fines, and all that this is a very quick note that it's just.

B

I think simple to look at versus me trying to just explain it so.

B

It's a way of extrapolating the cost of a three inch tree at a nursery.

B

And possibly we're going to develop some sort of ordinance or fine system. I think this is an.

B

Effective method, because you're really just going off of the market value of the tree.

B

B

So this is just a quick note on the way that you could possibly calculate a uh value of.

B

A tree that we could have in an ordinance, um so it's using the three inch nursery tree as.

B

A common calculator which has a seven inch cross-sectional area. Could you explain that.

B

Yes, so the area uh peter here my math support here, but the cross sectional area is.

B

About two pi r, so it's the um it's. The square footage right square, yes square inches. So it's.

E

You know you just calculate the area of the circle, so if you want to get into it, that's.

E

The basal area of a tree right, so the forest returns, how much wood is out there in that tree.

A

Yes, so we're going to go just as a quick example on three inch nursery and I just picked a number.

B

That would have our calculations to be even it's about right, 385 for a three-inch panel from a.

B

Nursery so we have the seven-inch cross-sectional area if we divide 385, which is the value of the.

B

Tree divided by that cross-sectional area, we're left with 55 per cross sectional inch. So now that.

B

Is our calculator so we're going to say set that number aside and we have a 20 inch pin oak? That's.

B

Just been destroyed by a construction company when they were putting something at the house, um this.

B

Is just an example: this didn't really happen. um Okay, I'm sorry! It's pi r! Squared! It's not yes!.

B

Correct so it is pi r squared I I I wrote that out here cross sectional.

B

Area the 20 inch panel is 314., so radius, squared.

B

Times so we have 314 as that, so to find the um value of that tree.

B

We basically we're comparing it with the nursery pinto. We have the cross sectional area of 314.

B

Times 55, which is the dollars per square inch, we calculated so you'd, be at a value of 17270.

B

And I mean that's still a 20 inch pounds. Probably it is worth more than that in many ways.

B

But it's still way more than we're getting right now if a tree gets damaged.

B

And it's something, and then I do have just a note here- that there wouldn't be depreciation.

B

You know it's different if it's a 20 inch pin out that zero, canopy or half dead, you know.

B

There's some factors there that would have to be written out, but so just I just wanted to throw.

B

Something out uh and chuck this methodology is used elsewhere, correct this, isn't something.

B

This is used elsewhere. I do not have an example of exactly where, but I could figure that out.

B

Okay, so that would be that'd be worthwhile. I got this information, yes from uh mark done.

B

Risk assessment uh manual he does consulting for worldwide. I mean singapore, new york city, autism,.

B

A basic example: some some communities have way you know their value might be 50 60, 000.

B

But this is just a start, something that might be a little more reasonable for our community.

C

So if this is something that the committee is interested in.

C

Pursuing you know, obviously the chairman um understands that the ordinance would need.

C

To be adjusted to include penalties um within our neighborhood section of the ordinance.

C

They're uh there's a lot of nuances. uh To this you know, say this was a sidewalk project and.

C

They were city trees um and our contractor does damage. uh Do we really want to tag our contractor.

C

For this you know: we've in the past, we've included uh stipulated penalties uh in our bid.

C

Of a project and what that does it just translates.

C

In terms of cost, they just pass it on to us at the end of the day. um So I think you know.

C

I think this is a really appropriate thing to do. I just want to make sure we think through.

C

The unintended consequences of you know are there exceptions? Who would you know how that would work.

C

And would it be something that the committee would, if somebody had a fine with the committee.

C

Be the arbiter of that, uh or would it be more of a true warden, which is me um consultation.

C

So I I think this is appropriate. I think we've taken a stab at kind of doing this in the past.

C

But I think actually putting into the ordinances and advertising it really well.

A

As a practical matter, it seems to me that there are essentially two scenarios.

A

An example of that would be the whiteboard plaza fiasco 20 years ago.

E

There it's pretty easy to allocate blame and quantify the damage in an instance like the.

A

One we talked about last week, the silver table. I think it's very tough, if not impossible,.

A

To allocate blame because you know it takes so many years.

A

Certain kinds of damage to killing the tree, but.

A

That's fibrous. 10 years later, it's going to be very tough.

A

That's right about the white or the easy one. um You know somebody just deliberately went in to.

A

Prove their visibility of the sign of something.

A

But some homeowner, a local contractor inadvertently.

A

Full knowledge damages a tree. He rolls the city, seventeen thousand dollars.

A

uh And I I know I don't understand what peter's saying.

A

About city contractors, but I think we have a problem that would say well.

A

A city's contractor does it on his driving will look the other way, but uh private contractor.

E

We did put this in on some of the sewer easement stuff.

E

I can't think of who your guy was at the time that was heading that up young guy back here.

E

Maybe way over on uh or by like aldrich area.

E

Several of those trees and the contractor, you know smashed the bucket into the side of the.

E

Escalator and he wasn't, he wasn't even you know he was close enough to hit it, but he wasn't closing.

E

Enough doing any work for the city, it was just you know in in attention or whatever that you know the.

E

Escalator operator um the contractor went through and tied the tree back together against the string.

E

And put the mark on the tree, and it's like this: isn't this isn't gonna fix it? So it went down. Look.

E

At the tree and everything else- and I don't know there was too much penalties in that contract, but.

E

Yeah we had it, it wasn't significant. No, it was like 700 sweaters, you know park damage, so we we.

E

Have the hearing loss enacted those but like peter said that just kind of come back to the city as a.

E

And headed somewhere else: well, the next time you do a trenching contract they're, just going to bid.

E

That much more right! My point, wasn't I'm sorry. I do the point wasn't to say that we shouldn't.

C

Hold them accountable, it's just more that you know, like you said. If it's a single resident.

C

That you know is out doing what he thinks is perfectly fine and he damages the tree and.

C

Then turns around and you know for 17 000 bucks. You know the the city council will hear about.

C

It and, and our committee will all suddenly become you know, viewed as out of touch with reality and.

C

They may become an episode instead of a program. um So so then could you do something? You know.

F

You'd have your sort of the residential criteria and then the commercial criteria.

F

With developers yeah, I mean, I think you know willful damage versus unintended. You know.

C

But one thing I will say is: I think that we need to where it's important, that we don't need to.

B

Reinvent the wheel yeah, I think other communities have this and they have it in a way that those.

B

Situations are prevented, for example, the root damage situation. Exactly you can't prove that.

B

They just took down a tree, but there is damage there and there's a way that it can be written.

B

um You know whether it's the percentage of roots or whatever, but I think that other communities.

B

Cambridge is an example, uh new york um there's plenty of communities that are implementing tree.

E

Fines and are also balancing uh relations with the community. So it's not ridiculous. You know.

E

Like resident situations, so maybe we need to look at what other communities are doing.

E

State laws that are already on the books uh allow for punishment and dumage, essentially.

E

Their undirected harvesting laws, but they do allow for uh penalties. For you know you cutting. You know.

E

You knowingly cutting my tree and allows for excess damage, but it's all based on the timber.

E

Essentially, economic, so you know most of these trees would be fired, uh so it doesn't. It doesn't.

E

Take into the cost of the benefits of that tree, but you can look up the rsas it's rsa 227. I can't.

E

Remember the letters but there's a whole bunch of them, um but the rsa 227 is our eight. You know.

E

Is our four free clause? I think it streamed ten times evaluated at least triple diameter.

A

That's because you can go in, you know where the stone wall was, you crossed it.

E

But the value was the value low. Economically, you know a pine tree in the middle of the middle of 40.

E

Acres, it was just for the two by fours that are in that right tree. Not for that same tree. That's you.

E

Know on a park or a roadside or you know whatever others said it's just just an older set of laws.

E

That are already on our books, but you could become familiar with those. I also see this as.

B

Really only your residential thing, I think, would be separate, and I see this as only being part.

B

Of a process, whether you are in the site plan review process like it's it's front, loaded or.

B

If you are getting a building permit and that's that so it's a big part of that process, so folks.

B

Already know going into it, I don't think that this is the type of thing where it's.

C

Resident moves to portsmouth and removes the tree. It's like. Oh sorry, that's 18, 000,.

C

It's just a different thing. I think this is for to prevent commercial damage during a large project.

C

And would be part of that really planning? I don't know exactly how it works here, but that planning.

C

Process so I think that's a good suggestion. We should you know we can look at it. It applies to.

C

You know projects and outside approval or building performance issues, um but I I.

C

I think there's the examples you know if you could get some examples of other communities. um We've.

C

Talked about this before and I think it's I think it's a good goal for maybe this next year is that.

C

Our goal would be to get something prepared. Maybe we review the ordinance in its total.

C

And see you know if there are any adjustments that are appropriate. Nothing jumps out of me at.

C

The moment- but this is definitely one thing that I know we've talked about in the past.

A

Any other questions on that. I just done a new business one. One thing I want to mention the the.

A

Trees and the sidewalks on islington street as part of that project, you notice the other day.

A

And the trees are impressive. I hope that they survived. I mean I, who knows, um I probably have.

A

Seen something I know you try to watch them going in, but then what impressed me? The other night.

A

The christmas parade was the uh the greats around each tree. um That was a you know. Somebody put that.

A

In the contract of probably peter, it's not my matter, it's just. I just think that essentially.

A

Aesthetically, it's nice for just protecting those trees from the damage of plows of kids or.

A

Bicycles, it really looks very good. I second that continuing on down the street this next year, we're.

C

In the next phase of design take from dover to probably brewster and then brewster in congress.

C

But it's not cheap, it's probably the most expensive road project ever pursued in the city.

A

At the end of the day, it's going to be about 20 million from the podcast.

F

There's a meeting about the bartlett street yep.

F

From richmond from the driveway up to dentistry, okay and and so you're part of that, and so we.

F

Would talk about the tree aspect of all these designs? Yeah yeah? It's a tough quarter, because the.

C

Right-Of-Way is really narrow. Okay and it's gonna be a balance between getting additional pedestrian.

C

Amenities and screen space so well, you know, obviously we you know, we look for opportunities.

F

That's well said: we look for opportunities to plan stuff, so every time, if anybody accuses us of.

A

Anything less! That's what I'm going to say. We look for opportunities.

A

F

And the christmas tree this year is very beautiful yeah. Thank you.

F

Yes, thank you. Thanks for your knowledge,.

F