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From YouTube: Planning Commission 01-25-2021
Description
Planning Commission 01-25-2021
B
C
B
B
As
we
go
through
the
agenda
and
just
know,
there's
going
to
be
a
lot
of
discussion
on
these
items.
I
would
ask
everyone
to
please
speak
directly
into
your
microphone
if
you're
wearing
a
mask
speak
a
little
more
slowly,
so
that
those
of
us
who
may
be
hard
of
hearing
can
understand
what
you're
saying.
B
F
Sign
code
draft
discussion,
so
the
city
attorney
has
recommended
that
the
city's
sign
code
be
amended
to
provide
for
specific
content
neutral
regulation.
The
intent
and
purpose
is
to
promote
public
health
safety
welfare
through
the
a
comprehensive
system
of
reasonable,
effective,
consistent
and
content,
neutral
and
non-discriminatory,
sign
standards
and
requirements.
F
Based
on
that
information,
a
signed
survey
was
created
and
available
to
business
and
businesses
and
residents
from
august
twentieth
through
september
thirtieth,
twenty
twenty.
The
link
for
that
signed
survey
was
published
numerous
times
in
the
weekly
highlights
report,
as
well
as
by
both
the
puna
gorda
and
charlotte
county
chambers
of
commerce.
F
We
had
877
responses
based
on
that
feedback
from
the
sign
survey
and
the
city
council
meeting
december
2nd,
the
draft
ordinances
has
been
updated
as
attached
to
the
agenda
package.
The
section
at
the
rear
at
the
end
of
the
draft
is
labeled
iconic
signs.
It
was
formerly
labeled
creative
signs.
This
section
is
still
under
staff,
rewrite
pending
more
public
input
and
review
by
legal
staff.
F
B
E
H
F
D
I
was
privy
to
that
council
meeting
and
I
think
the
reason
the
number
four
appeared
is
that
every
two
years
or
three
years
we
have
three
councilmen
that
are
up
for
election
and
in
a
presidential
year
you
could
have
three
councilmen
signs
on
your
property
plus
the
president
signed.
So
everybody
agreed
that
four
was
a
rational
number
for.
F
Okay,
the
city
attorney
has
actually
spoken
on
that,
as
as
far
as
making
regulations
specific
to
election
periods
of
time.
If
I'm
I'm
just
trying
to
think
there's
a
very
big
hole
in
that
that
the
us
supreme
court
can
drive
through
to
they
know
what
you're
doing
you're
you're,
trying
to
circumvent
being
content
neutral
and
just
regulate
political
signs
based
on
any
type
of
special
approvals
or
any
type
of
certain
time
limitations
that
are
placed
on
those
signs.
I
Again,
mitchell
lawson
urban
design,
the
the
city,
attorney's
interpretation
of
current
state
case
law
regarding
signage,
is
that
this
municipalities
are
quite
limited
in
what
they
can
do
in
terms
of
initiating
time
limits
and
other
restrictions.
Similar
restrictions
based
on
how
those
limitations
are
crafted.
They
could
be
perceived
as
attempting
to
regulate
content
instead
of
regulating
size,
type,
location,
content,
neutral
parameters
for
regulating
signage.
So
there
is
a
disconnect
between
what
we
may
desire
as
a
community
and
what
the
supreme
court
has
decided.
A
I
If
I
may,
the
the
vast
majority
of
sign
codes
that
are
adopted
right
now
today
would
could
be
found
to
be
non-compliant
with
the
current
standards
under
the
case
law.
So
the
vast
majority
of
currently
adopted
and
in
effect
signed
ordinances
around
the
united
states
of
america,
are
potentially
unconstitutional
and
could
be
challenged.
J
F
H
But
the
the
council's
logic
falls
a
little
short
about
their
every
four
years.
A
presidential
election,
three
city
council
candidates
and
a
presidential
you
know
precludes
any
other
offices
that
might
be
running
precludes
the
pre-existence
of
a
real
estate
sign
in
the
yard
or
anything
else,
a
construction
sign
or
something
else
I
mean
their
logic-
is-
is
flaky
at
best
and
and
suspect.
H
H
E
K
I
So
there
are
so
generally
speaking
signs
we
cannot
regulate
the
content
of
them.
So
that's
that's,
based
on
freedom
of
speech,
things
that
violate
community
standards
in
terms
of
profane
being
profane
could
be
enforced
incitable
so
in
in
the
instance
of
a
swastika
or
somebody
using
foul
or
obscene
language,
or
are
projecting
images
into
the
community
that
were
found
to
be
obscene
or
profane.
I
There
could
be
a
case
made
for
having
those
removed.
What
we're
generally
talking
about
here
in
terms
of
content
neutrality.
From
the
perspective
of
writing
a
sign
code
is,
we
cannot
differentiate
between
a
political
sign,
a
real
estate,
sign
a
yard
sale
sign
the
general
type
of
sign
in
terms
of
what
you
and
I
would
understand,
those
signs
having
different
meanings,
uses
applicable
time
periods,
the
the
natural
logic
that
we
all
have
as
as
rational
human
beings,
the
supreme
court
has
said.
No.
That
makes
any
sense.
You
have
to
be
neutral
in
your
sign
code.
H
There's
no
language
in
this,
though,
about
community
standards.
There's
no
language
in
this
about
who
determines
this,
I
mean
we're
going
to
have
a
board
of
community
a
community
standards.
Commission
I
I
know
this
sounds
ridiculous
right,
but
this
is
the
rabbit
hole
where
we're
heading
down.
If
we
with
what
we've
got
here-
and
I
understand
the
reasoning-
I've
listened
to
our
city
attorney
for
four
or
five
years
now.
Talking
about
this,
I
understand
the
conundrum
we
have
here,
but
we're
we're.
I
I
A
H
H
Which
will
only
be
addressed
through
lawsuits
and
case
law
and
building
precedent
to
determine,
which
is
what
they've
done
with
the
supreme
court's
standard
on
obscenity?
You
know,
as
the
chief
justice
said
in
that
decision,
I
don't
know
what
absentee
is,
but
I
know
it
when
I
see
it
correct.
So
you
know
the
case.
Law
and
precedent
would
have
to
be
built
to
determine
what
constitutes
community
standards
in
this
regards
what
or
who
would
be
determining.
B
When
it
comes
down
to
enforcement
of
whatever
is,
is
put
in
place,
and
maybe
I'm
getting
ahead
of
everything
here
by
this.
But
I
have
to
ask
the
question:
who
were
what
would
be
the
determining
factors
to
make
to
to
to
make
the
case
for
someone's
say
being
cited
for
having
in
an
offensive
or
incited
type
of
sign
in
their
yard?.
I
I
F
F
We
would
investigate
it
when
we
receive
a
complaint.
We
sent
that
over
to
the
city
attorney
for
his
opinion.
Again,
that's
where
we
rely
upon
the
city
attorney
to
guide
us
through
when
it's
a
very
vague
and
complicated
issue
to
determine
what
might
be
offensive
to
me
may
not
be
offensive
to
mr
sacalato
or
to
mr
austin.
F
K
D
K
D
D
L
A
F
H
Your
line
of
reasoning
a
little
bit
further
to
a
degree
of
subtlety,
that's
not
so
clear
as
I've
seen,
but
what
about
flags
and
science
and
stuff
representing
certain
political
views
or
views
that
may
be
construed
to
be.
You
know,
representative
of
a
certain
philosophy,
such
as
white
nationalism,
racism.
You
know
some
people
might
consider
the
swastika
obscene
others
might
consider
it.
You
know
a
symbol
of
something
else
or
you
know
having
lived
in
germany
if
you
flew
a
flag
with
a
swastika
on
it.
I
guarantee
you.
H
The
police
side
would
have
your
ass
in
jail
at
the
speed
of
heat,
because
it's
a
federal
crime,
but
here
other
symbols
that
have
come
to
mean
certain
things
to
certain
parties
that
are
too
many
might
not
realize
what
they
mean,
but
I
think
we
saw
a
lot
of
them
in
full
force
in
the
last
several
weeks
and
that
some
of
those
flags
are
flying
all
around
pgi
right
now
and
bsi.
Right
now,
and
I
know
for
a
fact
that
some
of
those
people
are
out
there,
I've
talked
to
them,
you
know.
So
what?
H
E
D
A
A
Along
that
point,
I
was
at
the
original
meeting
when
the
board
of
realtors
came
in
and
they
brought
a
lot
of
their
cohorts
to
talk
about
what
they
wanted
in
terms
of
signage,
and
I
thought
there
was
a
lot
of
conversation
about
how
many
signs
and
visual
clutter
this
thing
does
nothing
about
visual
clutter.
It
seems
to
amplify
it
and
it
and
it
flies
in
the
face
of
what
the
residents
said
they
wanted
who
live
here.
A
So
I
mean
I
have
a
real
problem
with
that,
and
I
know
that
there
are
people
on
city
council
who
think
that
boards,
like
us,
really
don't
matter,
because
we
don't
get
the
emails.
Well,
sometimes
we
get
the
emails
and
I
don't
know
I
mean
why
do
any
of
us
serve
if
what
we
have
to
say
doesn't
matter,
I
mean
I'm
troubled
by
that
comment,
which
I've
heard
a
couple
of
times
now,
but
frequency.
A
Yeah,
I
I
just
don't
know
what
happened,
because
the
original
intent
was
to
try
to
figure
out
a
way
that
was
going
to
work.
You
know
mr
dryberg
came
and
spoke
passionately
about
it.
They
wanted
to
come
up
with
something
that
was
going
to
be
consistent
and
not
obtrusive,
and
now
all
of
a
sudden
we're
throwing
out
what
the
citizens
say
and
we're
just
you
know,
jump
ball
now,
put
whatever
you
want.
K
K
K
B
D
Shot
mr
chair
and
I'll
shut
up
for
three
minutes
number
six
on
the
intent
and
purposes
protect
property
values
is
the
are
the
first
words.
So
if
my
neighbor
puts
up
a
burning
cross
with
a
couple
of
swastikas
swastikas
on
it,
what
does
that
do
to
my
property
value?
You
just
talked
about
selling
your
house.
I
couldn't
sell
my
house
unless
I
found
a
nazi.
I
couldn't.
H
K
A
G
I
am
a
little
bit
confused,
it
seems
like
I
know
where
this
originated.
I
was
actually
at
the
council
meeting
when
I
heard
the
the
17
open
house
signs
that
created
a
great
deal
of
excitement
evidently
and
opened
this
whole
thing
up.
I
guess
my
question,
though,
is
so
the
answer
to
any
signed
discussions.
G
Basically,
is
the
supreme
court
decision,
they
have
to
be
content
neutral,
any
ordinances
on
the
sides
which
actually
I'm
not
sure
I
don't
know
the
case
law,
but
it
seems
like
that's
all
we're
talking
about
in
a
sense
is
the
fact
that
this
ordinance
is
anything
we
do
has
to
be
content
neutral,
and
I
think
we
all
have
a
little
different
idea.
What
content
neutral
is,
however,
we
there
comes
a
point
where
you're
taking
away
the
rights
of
everybody
else
same
same
discussion
can
apply
to
freedom
of
speech.
G
At
some
point,
my
thoughts
and
my
discussion
can
infringe
on
your
freedom
of
speech.
We're
facing
the
same
thing
here,
but
I
don't
quite
know
what
the
answer
is.
But
I'm
kind
of
sorry
that
we,
frankly
that
we
dug
so
deep
to
come
up
with
the
specifics
and
are
are
really
being
very
strict,
are
attempting
to
be
very
strict
on
the
supreme
court.
K
G
That
says
that
you
can't
be
content
sensitive
well
and
I
I
just
don't
quite
buy
that
and
what
started
this
did
somebody
other
than
the
17
signs
I
remember
hearing
about.
Did
anybody
complain
about
the
content
of
not
being
able
to
put
content
on
their
sign
in
their
yard
or
object
to
removing
it
45
days
maximum
or
whatever
for
political
signs?
That
sort
of
thing,
I
I
don't
recall
people
objecting
to
the
content.
E
B
B
E
B
G
H
But
if
you
actually
go
to
the
federal
regulation
on
it,
it's
amazing
the
religious
symbols
that
could
be
placed
on
headstones
and
national
cemeteries,
that
if
you
erected
a
pentangle
or
a
crescent,
or
something
like
that
in
your
yard,
around
here,
you'd
be
having
people
calling
you
all
kinds
name.
I've
got
people
who
you
know
have
come
after
me
in
the
grocery
store
for
a
hat
having
the
south
carolina
state
flag
on
it,
because
it's
got
a
crescent
moon
and
a
palmetto,
and
they
tell
me
I'm
a
muslim.
H
You
know
the
the
and
you
know,
but
if
you,
if
you
put
a
pentangle
for
for
satanic
or
you
put
any
of
the
other
religious
symbols
which
are
perfectly
legal
in
a
national
cemetery
on
a
headstone,
you
know
where.
Where
do
you
start?
Is
there
a
line
there?
You
just
let
you
know
as
far
as
I'm
concerned,
let
everybody
put
whatever
up
decorations.
They
want
up
for
the
holidays,
but
are
we
going
to
start
getting
into?
H
You
know
areas
that
we
really
don't
want
to
get
into
without
messing
without
having
some
sort
of
community
standard
or
lack
of
community
standard
or
just
leave
it
leave
it
alone.
You
know
until
it
gets.
You
know
like
like
susan
said
now,
leave
it
alone
until
we
get
sued
and
then
let
the
case
law
determine
the
precedent
for
what
is
and
is
not
legal,
and
I
know-
and
I've
heard
the
city
attorney
for
at
least
four
years.
I
know
he's
gone
through
two
election
cycles
saying
we
need
to
do
this.
H
I
understand
the
position
he's
in,
but
you
know
maybe
we
need
to
get
sued
to
to
start
putting
a
little
bit
of
precedent
and
case
law
together
to
say
what
is
and
isn't
an
acceptable
community
standard
in
terms
of
content
neutral,
because
this
is
kind
of
ridiculous.
You
know
how
far
you
can
go
down
this
rabbit
hole.
B
And-
and
this
wasn't,
I
don't
believe-
we've
had
digressed
from
where,
where
city
staff
has
started
out
with
this
discussion,
we've
taken
it
a
bit
to,
I
think,
a
higher
level
that
impacts
where
we
are
right
now,
but
for
the
sake
of
of
of
what
one
purpose.
One
other
purposes
we're
here
for
let's
proceed
and
know
that
our
comments
are
going
to
be
relayed.
F
B
K
Right
I
would
like
to
vote.
Could
I
make
a
comment?
Please?
There
is
legal
opinion
as
to
what
is
not
permitted
under
the
aegis
of
free
speech.
It's
profanity
obscenity,
defamation
and
a
few
others.
I
think
we
need
to
caution
people
that
if
they
put
up
a
sign-
and
it
is
considered
to
be
defamatory,
profane
or
otherwise
that
they
may
be
forced
to
take
that
sign
down
and
if
they
don't
like
it,
they
can
appeal
it,
but
there
it
is
not
a
blanket
permission
to
put
whatever
you
want
on
that
side.
K
F
F
So
for
sizes,
again
the
the
sign
survey
varied
everywhere.
No
signs
one
square
foot
two
square
feet,
keep
it
the
same.
They
decided
sign
shall
not
exceed
four
square
feet
in
area,
which
is
two
foot
by
two
foot
yeah
and
I
should
have
brought
the
little
props.
We
had
some
props.
I
didn't
even
think
to
bring
him
two.
F
J
B
F
G
If
you
have
memory,
you
can
remember
a
lot
of
things,
but
I
remember
when
real
estate
signs
were
extremely
controversial
in
that,
where
we're
being
used
to
what
they
would
call
busta
neighborhood
and
the
bigger
the
sign
the
better,
and
so
that,
eventually,
that
was
the
content
of
the
sign.
It
was
to
do
with
segregation
and
how
you
would
go
into
a
white
neighborhood
and
you
put
up
real
estate
signs.
G
G
That
was
actually
became
case
law
and
I
don't
know
the
details.
I
was
probably
50
years
ago,
whereby
you
could
not
do
that
anymore,
and
yet
that
was
content
signed
content
where
they
said.
You
can't
do
this
because
you're
of
what
you,
what
you're
trying
to
do,
you
can't
do
it
this
way.
So
that's
part
of
where
some
signage
at
that
time,
I
remember
you
could
not
had
to
be
limited
in
size.
E
I
F
Thank
you.
Okay.
Moving
on
the
height
it
varied
one.
Foot
two
foot
was
majority
two
foot's,
pretty
short,
to
have
a
sign
in
the
yard
so
and
with
the
sign
at
four
square
feet
in
area,
they
determined
a
council,
determined
six
feet
in
height
and
that's
the
pole,
not
the
entire
sign.
Again,
the
sign
is
limited
in
size,
so
this
would
be
like
the
post
that
it's
on
yeah,
so.
F
F
H
F
J
F
C
B
F
So
a
lot
of
people
wanted
to
have
time
limitations
how
to
determine
time
limitations,
because
that
would
be
for
every
sign
real
estate,
construction,
political
anything.
So
if
you
regulate
one
with
time
limits,
if
you
do
30
days,
that
means
the
real
estate
sign
could
only
be
there
30
days
so
and
if
you
don't
have
permits
to
go
along
with
those,
then
how?
How
can
you
track
how
long
the
signs
have
been
there
so
anyway?
C
F
F
F
D
E
D
H
H
D
E
D
F
B
The
counter
side
for
both
commercial
and
residential
realtors
or
people
trying
to
sell
a
piece
of
property,
whether
it
be
commercial
or
or
residential,
is
that
in
a
full-blown
situation
where
you
know
all
these
signs
could
be
out,
it
could
be
a
significant
distraction
to
potential
buyers
and
businesses
relocating
here
or
or
a
residence
relocating.
Here,
just
a
comment:
I'm
not
wonder
I
don't
want
to
debate
it.
I
just
want
to
put.
H
It
out,
thank
you
when
you
say,
based
on
partial
sides
of
street
frontage,
it
seems
like
signs
are
most
interested
in
street
frontage,
because
you're
trying
to
attract
someone's
attention
so
there
I
understand
all
the
safety
you
can
get.
You
could
have
a
large
parcel
and
have
a
clutter
of
signs
in
a
relatively
small
space.
H
H
H
H
H
H
I
F
And
and
to
answer
mr
como,
which
I
know
a
lot
of
these-
are
rhetorical
and
we're
just
taking
comment,
but
there
are
some
safeguards
in
place
regarding
line
of
sight,
visibility-
and
this
is
this-
goes
with
residential
and
commercial.
No
signs
shall
be
located
within
10
feet
of
the
edge
of
the
roadway.
F
F
F
F
Mural
must
be
sealed
to
prevent
fading
of
the
original
paint
for
a
minimum
of
five
years
maintenance
as
needed,
or
minimum
of
every
five
years
and
limited
to
one
mural
per
structure
and
again
like
we
also
have
other
creative
signs,
such
as
projecting
signs
and
ground
signs
that
are
a
little
more
creative.
We
used
to
have
a
a
wonderful
example
at
the
corner
of
taylor
and
olympia
when
it
was
sun
art
they
had
a
nice
sculpture,
which
met
the
criteria
of
that.
F
So
we're
trying
to
make
it
iconic
we're
going
to
have
some
visual
examples
of
what
we're
looking
for.
We
want
it
to
have
minimum
treatments
to
help
blend
in
with
the
building
or
site
that
the
iconic
sign
would
be
located
and
just
to
give
staff
a
little
more,
not
flexibility.
It
will
help
with
flexibility
as
far
as
hopefully
eliminating
any
type
of
variant
requests
for
these
types
of
signs,
but
gives
us
more
criteria
that
somebody
has
to
meet
the
criteria
while
still
becoming
or
remaining
content
neutral.
A
I
So
the
intent
is
to
provide
sort
of
other
avenues
where
signage
can
be
placed
on
buildings
that
is
effective
and
fits
in
with
the
existing
historic
character
and
context
of
the
of
the
downtown
and
other
adjacent
commercial
areas.
So
that's
why
it's
in
there
it
it's
something
that
the
that
the
community?
Actually
the
business
community,
actually
wanted
us
to
implement.
I
F
D
On
page
three
number,
nine,
I
just
wanna
make
sure
I
understand
what
this
says
signs
placed
on
worn
by
or
held
by
a
person.
These
are
prohibited
signs
by
the
way,
applicability
and
exclusion.
So
I
mean
we're
all
familiar
with
the
progressive
insurance
idiot
that
twirls
the
sign,
so
that
is
not
allowed.
Am
I
doing
that
correctly?
You
are
doing
that
correctly.
E
H
F
D
D
F
F
So
general
single
family
is
in
the
sro
general
monte.
Family
is
in
the
sro,
those
those
zoning
classifications
all
fall
in
one
of
the
sr.
In
the
special
residential
overlay
district,
you
have
neighborhood
residential,
which
is
more
the
downtown
and
east
side,
and
then
you
have
the
manufactured
home
and
environmental
preserve
which
all
have
a
residential
component.
D
D
F
D
I
D
D
F
We
don't
limit
the
number
of
like
for
you're
talking
for,
like
a
ground
sign
for
a
multi-tenant
building
right
right.
We
don't,
I
mean
changeable
copy
signs
where
you
can
change,
zip
letters
or
anything
like
that
are
limited
to
certain
uses,
but
a
ground
sign
can
have
wilshire
walk
has
one
where
they
can
change
the
tenants
that
are
in
that.
D
F
F
E
D
The
number
of
signs
that's
on
bill's
barbershop
poll
sign,
I
know
he's
not
in
the
city,
but
I
what
I'm
saying
is
if
we
have
a
monument
sign
that
says,
bob's
office
plaza
and
you
get
three
tenants
below
it.
That's
about
all.
You
could
read
at
45
miles
an
hour
for
us
to
put
eight
names
below
bob's
office.
Plaza
is,
I
mean,
nobody's
gonna,
see
it.
F
And
there's
only
a
couple:
three
plazas
that
have
that
it's
going
to
be
cross
trails,
it's
going
to
be
the
airport
road
crossing
and
colonial
plaza
down
at
burnt
store,
they
have
tolls
and
they
have.
The
majority
of
those
signs
are
existing
non-conforming.
If
they
were
to
come
down,
they're
going
to
be
limited
to
the
64
square
feet
in
area
they're
going
to
get
on
there
what
they
can
get
on
there,
but
that's
going
to
be
up
to
the
landlord
and
the
tenants
on
who
gets
who
pays
for
what
space?
F
J
D
Concerned
about
jones
loop,
I
I'm
concerned
that
we're
gonna
wind
up
with
eight
monument
signs
along
jones,
loop,
road
and
they're.
All
gonna
have
20
names
below
it
and
at
50
miles
an
hour
which
is
a
really
slow
speed
for
jones
loop.
You
ain't
going
to
read
squat
and
that
just
seems
like
it's
an
invitation
for
an
accident.
D
I
D
D
I
K
G
It
seems
that
we're
doing
some
things.
I
know
we
have
our
attorney.
Looking
at
it,
u.s
supreme
court
has
ruled
that
display
of
political
and
other
types
of
signs
on
residential
property
is
a
unique
important
and
protected
means
of
communications
and
towns.
Cannot
re
restrict
the
display
of
such
signs.
The
decision
has
not
been
overturned.
Okay,
that
was
a
municipality
that
banned
yard
signs
period,
reed
versus
town
of
gilbert,
reed
versus
town
of
gilbert,
2015
u.s
supreme
court,
in
which
they
clarified
that
municipalities
may
impose
contact
based.
G
Second,
there's
three
dots
there.
So
I'm
not
sure
what
that
means:
political
science,
which
included
content,
design
and
three
dots.
So
the
point
I'm
making
is,
I
we're
examining
everything,
but
we
and
we're
speculating
a
lot,
but
we
aren't
really
looking
at
what
the
supreme
court
has
ruled
on
signs
and
just
one
more
supreme
court
ruling
impact
sign
regulations,
michigan
municipal
league.
G
F
The
if
I
may,
the
city
attorney
has
been
using
the
town
of
gilbert
reed
versus
the
town
of
gilbert
as
part
of
his
research
on
doing
the
draft
of
the
sign
code
because
they
were
their
whole
sign
code
was
deemed
unconstitutional
because
they
were
limiting.
They
were
trying
to
regulate
off-premise
directional
signs
such
as
open
house
signs
and
political
signs
that
was
part
of
their.
C
F
G
It
might
be
helpful,
I'm
thinking
to
have
some
information
on
what
has
other
rulings
and
that
ruling
from
the
supreme
court
for
the
people
here
to
have.
I
know
we
rely
on
our
city
attorney,
but
it
might
help
be
helpful
to
read
what
this
has
all
come
from
ourselves
or
have
it
made
available
to
us
not
where
attorneys
are
going
to
practice
law,
but
it
might
help
us
in
understanding
a
little
better
than
we
do.
Thank
you.
H
Joe,
so
from
the
esoteric
back
to
the
pragmatic,
just
a
couple,
questions
line,
491
uniform
signs
placed
on
or
painted
on
a
motor
vehicle
or
trailer
parked
with
the
primary
purpose
of
serving
as
a
sign
not
otherwise
allowed
by
this
article
is
this
back
to
the
old
thing.
If
you
can't
slap
a
magnetic
sign
on
the
side
of
your
car
and
leave
it
parked
in
your
driveway
around
town,
or
is
this
too
many
commercial
vehicles
or
what.
L
L
F
Or
right
out
on
us
41,
if
it's
on
at
your
at
your
business
locate,
if
it's
at
your
business
location
in
a
regular
parking
spot
and
that
that
vehicle
is
used
every
day
for
your
business,
then
that
would
be
permitted.
When
you
take
a
vehicle
that
you
don't
use
every
day,
you
slap
a
sign
on
it
park
it
out
there
right
next
to
41,
that's
a
vehicle!
That's
an
advertising
device
same
with
residential.
You
can't
have
a
commercial
vehicle
or
you
can't
have
the
commercial
graphics
in
in
a
residential
area.
H
F
H
Good
good
a-frames
only
okay,
yes,
good,
okay
flags,
we
won't
even
go
down
that
rabbit
hole.
That's
scary,
yard
signs,
that's
very
good!
Uniform
sign
plan.
Did
I
read
this
right?
That's
11.14
page
27
line
1327.,
so
any
new
development
is
going
to
have
to
develop
as
part
of
their
proposal
a
uniform
sign
plan.
F
That's
what
you're
reading
it
does
say
in
approved
uniforms
shall
be
required
for
all
new
development
we've.
Let
it
be
an
option
for
new
development.
Like
tolls
plaza,
they
have
a
uniform,
signed
plan
that
was
adopted
when,
when
they
created
or
developed
that
facility
it's
not
required.
However,
it's
very
beneficial
harold
court
parking
garage
has
a
uniform
signed
plan,
as
does
lashley
court,
the
crab
house
building
it
has
a
uniform
sign
plan.
So
when
it's
a
when
it's
a
bigger
building
with
multi-tenants,
it's
it
behooves
that
property
owner
to
have
a
uniform
sign
plan.
F
J
H
I'd
just
like
to
say
thank
you
to
the
staff.
I
know
this
has
been
a
royal
pain
for
a
very
long
time.
I
don't
want
to
throw
the
baby
out
with
the
bath
water
because
there's
a
lot
of
good
stuff
in
here.
I
agree
with
paul
there's
some
things
we
kind
of
need
to
tweak
absolutely
and-
and
I
hope
that
this
gets
a
little
bit
more
visibility,
but
there's
some
excellent
work
in
here
that
needs
to
be
preserved,
along
with
some
things
that
still
need
a
little
bit
of
working
on.
F
A
A
Secondly,
if
we
were
taking
a
business
analogy,
when
you
have
attorneys,
attorneys
are
hired
to
help
you
achieve
objectives,
I
don't
feel
like
ours
is
necessarily
helping
us
achieve
objectives.
I
know
he's
trying
to
keep
us
from
being
sued,
but
I
don't-
I
don't
see
any
real
evidence
here
of
trying
to
address
the
original
problem
that
came
up
like
god
knows
how
many
months
ago,
so
I
really
would
hope
that
the
council,
in
their
executive
capacity,
would
take
a
look
at
that.
B
B
J
H
I
think
that
was
acknowledged
going
in
when
the
city
attorney
first
brought
the
possibility
of
addressing
this
up
and
the
council's
immediate
aversion
to
even
discussing
it,
and
you
know,
let's
wait
and-
and
I
think
you
know,
opening
pandora's
box
was
kind
of
known
from
the
beginning.
It's
if
we
don't.
If
we
don't,
you
know,
ask
the
question:
we
can't
stand
the
answer,
so
let's
just
don't
ask
the
question
and
they
ignored
it
until
they
couldn't
ignore
it
anymore,
but
but
you're
right,
you
know
I
I
we're.
H
B
H
And-
and
I
I
agree
with
with
harvey,
especially
I
I
think
the
city
council
in
in
has
been
a
little
cavalier
in
their
approach
to
some
of
these
things,
especially
disregarding
you
know.
If
we
have,
if
we
have
an
input,
you
know
I
mean
I'm
used
to
seeing
these
kind
of
results,
but
you
know
if
we
have.
If
we
ask
for
input
and
we
get
an
input,
then
you
know
at
least
acknowledge
the
input
or
or
give
reason
for
why
you
know
you
decide
otherwise.
I
D
Answers
to
some
of
the
questions,
it's
obvious,
that
if
you
have
a
sign,
that's
two
feet
high.
You
can't
get
a
lawn
mower
underneath
it
you
can't.
So
they
were
saying
I
you
know
visual
blight.
I
don't
want
to
see
a
sign
any
more
than
two
feet.
High.
The
logic
is
practically.
You
can't
have
a
sign
two
feet
high,
because
you're
not
going
to
be
able
to
maintain
around
it
unless.
H
D
G
G
B
B
I
I
E
I
I
I
The
intent
of
the
land
development
regulation
update
is
to
look
at
the
results
of
development
rather
than
the
management
of
the
development
process
and
shift
away
from
conventional
zoning,
which
would
see
both
of
these
buildings
as
being
more
or
less
the
same
thing
both
of
these
neighborhoods
being
the
same,
which
are
four
units
per
acre
residential
dwellings
and
then
look
at
the
form
being
the
driving
factor
so
being
results.
Oriented
the
conventional
zoning
maps
are
very
little
detail
within
the
the
form
based
codes.
I
I
So
this
is
just
images
and
I'm
sorry.
This
presentation,
I
believe,
is
what
you
have
in
your
package
zipping
through
this
in
the
efforts
of
time
in
terms
of
the
form
based
code.
There
are
five
major
elements:
there's
an
illustrative
plan
which,
if
you
look
back
at
the
citywide
master
plan,
there's
actually
a
broad
brushstroke
illustrative
plan
in
there.
I
Then
it
talks
about
the
transect,
which
is
a
way
to
talk
about
how
we
inhabit
the
earth
and
then
there's
a
regulating
plan,
there's
building
form
standards
and
there's
public
realm
standards.
So
this
is
the
illustrative
plan.
That's
in
the
citywide
master
plan
in
form-based
codes.
They
talk
a
lot
about
the
transect,
it's
a
concept
from
the
sciences
from
ecology.
I
I
So
when
we
apply
that
concept
to
the
human
habitat,
we
have
a
spectrum
from
rural
to
urban
and
a
little
bit
more
clearly
defined.
You
have
these,
what
they
call
transect
zones
going
from
t1
to
t6
with
an
allotment
for
special
districts.
The
city
is
primarily
composed
of
t1
natural
areas.
We
have
the
great
buffer
preserve
within
the
city
limits
boundary,
so
about
40
percent
of
our
land
area
is
actually
t1.
I
So
in
terms
of
developing
a
regulating
plan,
it's
looking
at
those
transect
zones
and
how
they
would
apply
across
the
various
blocks
or
the
area
of
the
city
in
question.
This
is
a
regulating
plan
around
a
tr
proposed
around
a
transit
station
in
another
community,
and
they
go
through
three
different
transect
zones.
In
the
matter
of
of
blocks
and
even
within
a
block,
you
may
have
two
separate
transect
zones,
so
within
form
based
coding.
I
I
I
The
difference
between
a
t5
and
a
t4
may
be
the
difference
between
the
most
intense
sort
of
four
or
five
blocks
in
the
downtown
core,
and
you
know
the
the
the
blocks
that
are
transitioning
from
the
commercial
core
into
the
the
residents
stable
residential
neighborhoods
that
surround
it.
So
you've
you
stepped
down
in
terms
of
what
you
permit
in
uses
and
allowances
for,
like
light
coverage
or
building
height
for
all
of
those
specific
parameters.
I
I
What
what
the
frontage
of
the
building
is.
If
I,
if
it's
residential
you
know,
a
stoop
may
be
appropriate
where
a
stoop
would
be
completely
inappropriate
in
a
commercial
building,
so
those
types
of
of
standards,
you
can
drill
down
even
more
and
specify
specific
building
types
that
you
would
like
to
see,
and
these
could
be
based
on
precedence
that
that
you
find
in
the
community,
especially
in
a
historic
community
like
ours.
I
The
city's
current
land
development
regulations
have
architectural
standards
within
them,
they're
they're
pretty
loose
there.
There
are
areas
in
there
where
a
savvy
developer
can
drive
a
hotel
through
them.
So
we
need
to
make
sure
that
these
are
consistent
with
what
is
legally
defensible
and
also
what
most
closely
matches
or
meets
the
community
expectations
for
development.
That
does
come
to
our
community.
I
So
those
are
architect,
architectural
terminology.
So,
in
the
regulations
things
like
that
would
be
defined
just
to
give
a
little
bit
of
background
on
form
codes.
They
were
really
invented
by
or
created
by
primarily
architects
and
designers,
who
were
concerned
about
getting
better
development
than
the
suburban
typical
that
was
common
in
the
you
know,
the
1970s
80s
90s.
I
We
will
attempt
to
strip
that
down
as
much
as
possible
to
make
it
as
plain
english
as
possible,
but
we
have
to
make
sure
that
we're
we're
maintaining
those
defensible
and
regulatable
standards,
so
we
have
to.
We
do
have
to
use
some
technical
jargon.
Unfortunately,
thank
you,
yes
and
then
the
final
piece
of
the
puzzle,
which
actually
we
do
have
a
little
bit
in
of
this
in
our
current
code,
is
public
realm
standards.
I
So
that's
how
the
street
should
be
shaped
adjacent
to
private
development,
and
this
can
be
corridor
specific,
also
added
into
that.
If
you're
specifying
standards
for
open
spaces
like
a
courtyard
or
plaza
associated
with
urban
development,
you
want
to
make
sure
that
you
have
standards
that
direct
developers
as
to
how
to
develop
that
space,
so
that
it's
maximally
beneficial
to
the
private
development,
as
well
as
the
the
creation
of
the
public
realm.
That's
desired.
I
We've
had
the
initial
kickoff
meeting
with
overcome
partners
to
discuss
the
project
timeline
and
we
are
working
towards
an
initial
public
workshop
in
late
march,
given
the
ongoing
circumstances
with
kovid
and
the
shifting
targets
there,
we're,
assuming
that
we're
going
to
be
primarily
virtual.
With
that
workshop,
we
are
looking
at
hybrid
models,
which
will
have
some
sort
of
opportunity
for
an
in-person
component,
but
that
will
be
primarily
geared
to
those
people
who
are
uncomfortable
or
unable
to
engage
in
the
virtual
environment.
I
A
Okay,
so
as
a
spokesperson
for
people
who
actually
live
in
this
area,
I
would
really
like
to
strongly
suggest-
and
I
know
you
guys
have
been
very
good.
You
have
met
with
our
new
civic
association,
but
I
would
hope
that
you
really
try
extra
hard
to
engage
our
residents,
because
we
are
the
folks
who
are
going
to
be
most
impacted
by
the
changes
that
come
down
the
pike,
especially
as
we
talk
about
different
housing.
A
You
know
forms
and
stuff
like
that,
and
no
disrespect
to
all
of
you
who
live
in
pgi
or
burnt
store
aisles.
You
are
not
going
to
be
affected
by
that.
You
know,
there's
one
thing
for
city
marketplace,
but
I'm
really
talking
about
what
we
do.
Residentially
and
those
ldrs
are
super
important
to
us,
both
from
the
type
of
housing,
the
parking
situation,
the
drainage
and
the
historic
preservation.
A
Yeah,
definitely
I
definitely
but
I'm
saying
it's.
You
know
it's
nice,
that
pgi
people
have
a
point
of
view:
okay,
but
they're
just
driving
over
to
have
dinner.
It's
not
the
same
thing
as
living
here,
full-time
and
because
we're
the
smaller
district.
That's
not
always
the
balance
is
not
necessarily
there.
B
D
D
other
than
those
looking
like
dumpster
enclosures
is
when
you
make
the
presentation
to
the
public,
are
they
going
to
understand
that?
I
I
mean
I
I
got
the
one
to
two
in
the
middle.
I
got
the
one
or
two
up
at
the
top
right.
I
got
the
one
to
three
at
the
top
right.
I
see.
I
know
this
one.
I
got
the
one
to
one
at
the
top
right
and
then
we're
back
to
one
to
two
and
one
or
three
yeah.
I
So
the
the
graphic
that's
on
the
screen
is
something
that
was
pulled
from
another
presentation.
Staff
did
not
create
that
in
the
essence
of
time.
What
it
is
intending
to
show
is
relationships
between
the
building,
the
buildings,
which
would
be
the
vertical
members
and
the
street,
which
would
be
the
horizontal
member
and
that
buildings.
I
D
D
D
D
With
how
we
approach
our
downtown-
that's
my
opinion.
Okay,
page
20.,
you
just
read
off
on
one
of
those
slides
a
whole
bunch
of
architectural
features
that
need
to
be
incorporated,
but
on
page
20,
under
what
elements
are
needed
needed
for
a
form
based
code
under
four
building
form
standards
b.
Architecture
standards
are
optional,
correct.
I
I
We
are
including
those
because
we
already
have
architectural
standards
and
one
of
the
major
things
driving
this
entire
process
from
the
beginning
was
the
fact
that
the
architecture
of
the
buildings
that
got
built
didn't
align
with
the
expectations
of
the
community.
So
we
know
we
have
a
problem
there,
specifically
with
architectural
standards,.
D
K
D
D
This
is
an
area
that
needs
to
be
explained
to
the
general
public
as
well
as
the
historic
district,
and
it
would
be
my
very
humble
suggestion
that
you
take
a
part
of
this
puzzle
and
blow
it
up
so
that
you
can
explain
the
elements
that
are
on
the
right-hand
side
in
the
legend,
because
I
will
take
you
for
a
drink
of
dom
period.
Champagne,
if
you
can
show
me
where
the
street
trees
are
on
this
plant.
D
D
I'm
going
to
bet
this
is
meaningless
to
a
lot
of
people.
They
probably
aren't
going
to
understand
it.
We
don't
have
the
atlantic
ocean,
we
don't
have
the
intracoastal.
There
are
going
to
be
questions
that
are
asked
of
you
that
are
going
to
inundate
you
beyond
belief.
I
would
I.
I
would
think
that
maybe
a
different
example
of
the
transect,
maybe
using
our
local
habitat,
might
be
easier
so
that
somebody
understands
that
we
have
whales
in
the
peace
river.
E
E
I
D
E
D
E
D
D
D
D
D
D
E
E
D
D
Again,
the
the
the
black
and
white
graphic
on
the
right
is
a
prime
example.
I
mean
those
streets,
the
main
street,
the
boulevard
and
downtown
streets
and
residential
streets
are
all
going
to
become
raceways.
If
we
don't
figure
out
a
way
to
slow
traffic
and
and
uniform
manual
traffic
control
devices
doesn't
allow
you
to
put
a
stop
sign
on
every
corner.
You
know
that
so
again
I
I
would.
I
would
personally
push
for
roundabouts,
but
that
may
be
a
losing
battle,
but
so
be
it
okay,
I'm
done
you
can
all
go
home
now.
B
I
Yeah
I
do
as
well
the
the
drafting
of
land
development
regulations,
so
one
thing
to
to
point
out
is
one
of
the
key
pieces
of
this
is
a
public
workshop,
which
will
more
than
like
it's
currently
scheduled
for
summer.
It'll
likely
be
in
the
in
the
early
fall
shifted
based
on
community
input
is
a
code
testing
workshop
where
the
initial
draft
of
the
land
development
regulations
will
be
tested
against
key
parcels,
so
that
you'll
actually
see
a
potential
development
that
is
compliant
with
the
code
sort
of
a
code.
I
Maximum
development
project
will
be
used
as
an
example
on
on
these
key
parcels,
so
that
will
give
the
community
a
really
textural
understanding
of
what
the
potential
development
is
under
these
proposed
codes,
and
that
will
give
us
the
opportunity
for
real
substantive
feedback
on
this
is
okay.
We
find
this
acceptable,
or
this
is
completely
unacceptable,
because
it's
too
tall
it's
too
wide.
It
doesn't
have
enough
open
space.
It's
got
too
much
parking
whatever
those
parameters
are.
It's.
I
H
I
So
we
do
have
to
be
careful
because
it's
really
easy
to
show
visual
evidence
and
illustrations
that
make
people
think
that
these
are
real
projects
that
are
being
imposed
from
the
outside
on
their
community
instead
of
examples
illustrating
what
they,
the
in
potential
outcomes
of
the
rules
that
they
say
they
want
are
yeah.
So
we
we
have
a
lot
of
work
ahead
of
us
in
terms
of
communicating
that
effectively
and
you
know
more
to
come.