►
From YouTube: City Council Meeting 01-17-18 Part 2
Description
Description
B
Just
hate,
if
this
does
go
forward,
I
would
hate
for
them
to
have
to
come
back
every
couple
of
years
and
try
because
I
mean
we
all
know
what's
going
on
with
the
Army
Corps
right
now
with
the
other
project.
So
I
really
can't
believe
that
this
is
gonna
happen
in
two
years
and
I
just
would
like
to
save
the
time
the
paperwork,
the
labor
and
all
of
the
things
that
go
into
it.
If
that's
at
all
possible.
If.
A
There
is
a
consensus
of
the
City
Council
to
consider
an
amendment
to
the
zoning
code
to
allow
for
an
extension
for
whatever
criteria
you
might
establish
person
to
to
get
that
extension.
I
think
it
would
be
appropriate
to
consider
an
ordinance
of
that
nature
amending
the
zoning
code
until
that
happens,
however,
there
is
no
discretion.
It's
a
two-year.
B
C
C
Section
20
for
property
owners,
association
that
they're
all
members
of,
and
that
has
the
ability
to
assess
and
and
maintain
which
has
been
happening
over
the
years,
because
there's
been
maintenance
costs
and
cost
of
keeping
the
lake
aerated
and
things
of
that
nature
over
the
years.
So
they
still
have
that
same
ability.
Okay,.
B
C
B
B
B
B
C
C
The
council
can't
tell
us
necessarily
which
channel,
because
that's
going
to
be
the
federal
agencies
and
state
agencies
as
we
go
through
so
the
specific
channel
location
may
not
look
like
that
at
the
end,
that's
our
intention
and
that's
what
we're
intending
to
permit
and
through
going
through
all
of
the
alternative
analysis
that
Hans
went
through
this
morning.
That's
the
kind
of
thing
that
those
agencies
look
at,
but
they
can
say.
Oh,
we
want
you
to
jog
here
and
jog
back
that'll.
Be
part
of
that
permitting
that
we
are
just
beginning
now.
So.
B
C
F
C
C
There
there
are
no,
there
are
no
residential
Lots
on
the
west
side
of
colony,
Point
Road,
that
are
members
that
are
not
members
of
the
Association.
It's
my
opinion
and
the
courts
will
probably
be
the
venue
for
this,
but
the
properties
that
are
on
the
east
side
of
Colony
Point
Road,
one
of
which,
which
is
represented
here
and
is
alleging
property
rights
on
the
west
side
of
the
road.
They
have
no
rights
on
that
side
of
the
road
when
their
plat
was
done.
C
C
Have
the
ability
I
don't
know
what
the
the
actual
assessments
are,
but
they're
all
members
and
they're
all
subject
to
assessments
and
the
same
thing
as
any
other
condominium,
association
or
activity
like
that?
If
you
don't
pay,
you
can
have
a
lien
against
your
property
and
all
that,
but
that
was
all
put
in
place
in
1984,
because.
F
F
Couple
questions
for
Hans
the
details,
see
I,
think
you've
pretty
well
explained
it,
but
if
you
could
go
back
to
that
slide,
I
wonder
if
anything
was
naturally
occurring
there
and
I
did
hear
you
say
that
you
were
in
there
and
it
does
have
some
little
channel
area
to
it.
But
you
will
be
dredging
most
of
that
to
make
that
channel.
No.
E
The
the
area
that
you
see
highlighted
in
blue
is
the
natural
tidal
Creek
that
occurs
within
that
mangrove
system.
You
can't
even
see
it
from
the
area's
because
of
the
mangrove
/
overgrowth,
the
area
that
we
would
actually
be
directly
impacting
because
I
got
to
get
through
the
mangroves.
That
line
the
shoreline
to
the
open
water
of
the
Creek
is
that
small
area
that
you
see
in
green
okay.
E
The
design
to
submit
it's
the
least
amount
of
impact
I
mean
we.
We
tried
to
design
waterfront
facilities
so
that
they
had
the
least
amount
of
impact
to
the
resources
and
meet
that
balancing
test
of
need,
use
benefit
to
cost.
And
so
this
is
what
we've
come
up
with
as
the
option
for
creating
that
tidal
flushing,
which
is
important
for
the
basin
system,
as
well
as
an
improvement
to
the
tidal
Creek
itself
and.
C
D
One
question
actually
one
issue:
this
is
kind
of
segue
Don
to
comment
that
was
making
with
such
short
access.
This
Basin
would
be
possibly
more
available
for
criminal
activities
of
our
stealing
a
boat
or
self
because
it's
so
quick
to
get
out
to
it
so
making
sure
that
we
have
proper
a
police
coverage,
and/or
security,
maybe
with
a
camera
or
whatever
I
think-
would
be
paralyzed
but
that's
way
in
the
future.
But
I
just
want
to
point
that
out,
because
I
was
asked
to
and
I
kind
of
agree
with
that
idea.
H
A
Now,
so
we're
going
to
deny
the
extension
at
the
time
of
renewal
there'll
be
an
opportunity
for
you
to
consider
all
of
those
things
as
the
criteria
that
will
be
established
under
the
ordinance
that
I
would
present
to
you
as
to
what
to
give
you
the
the
discretion
to
approve
the
extension
or
not,
which
we
don't
have
presently.
Okay,.
G
J
Is
if
this
may
be
redundant,
it's
it's
continuing.
Credible,
then
was
speaking
on
about
with
alternative
analysis.
Why?
You
can't
go
to
a
Northwest
direction
because
I'm
an
interpreter
due
diligence,
I,
guess
you
wanted
to
explore
all
the
possibilities
and
just
want
to
know
why?
Because
if
it
was
Northwest
who
had
less
impact
at
all
any
point,
but
then
there
may
be
reasons,
I'd
want
to
know,
I
guess
what
the
reasons
why
it's
this
direction
was
chosen.
Well,.
E
Fundamentally
is
if
you
take
a
look
at
the
alignment
and
you
compare
that
where
I've
got
a
hundred
and
seventy
feet,
which
is
the
the
short
parallel
section
of
the
channel
verses
2025
linear
feet,
just
were
you
know
almost
ten
times
greater
in
length
of
what
we're
talking
about
from
the
regulatory
agency
standpoint.
You
know
they
I
don't
want
to
sound
flippant,
but
their
concern.
Is
it
really
call
any
points,
objection
to
boat
traffic
in
front,
although
I
can
testify
here
that?
E
Having
done
the
flushing
study
in
front
of
colony
point
that
that
is
already
a
boating
superhighway.
You've
you
know
trying
to
operate
at
idle
speed
and
use
drugs,
and
current
meters
I've
got
bugs
zooming
all
around
me.
A
planing
speed
and
by
the
way,
should
be
noted.
According
to
the
city,
Punta
Gorda
x'
ordinance
from
96
I
believe
this
is
really
classified
as
a
slow
speed
zone
out
to
that
contour
line.
E
So
technically,
if
it
was
marked,
if
that
line
was
marked,
enforcement
would
be
able
to
cause
boaters
to
operate
at
slow
speed
out
to
that
2,000
foot
limit.
But
beside
that,
the
Corps
of
Engineers
looks
at
what
the
resource
impacts
are
and
if
there's
an
opportunity
that
I
can
reduce
the
amount
of
dredging
that
I've
got
to
do,
which
means
that
I'm
impacting
submerged
resources
in
the
bottom
and
even
though
most
of
it
is
basically
sand
and
shale
and
mud
and
some
organics
similar
to
what's
in
front
of
the
colony
point
piece.
E
The
reality
is
that
it's
a
far
greater
total
area
of
impact
and
a
far
greater
volume
that
I
would
have
to
excavate,
which
of
course,
adds
cost,
and
that's
part
of
also
my
responsibility
to
the
applicant
is
how
do
I
and
minimize
the
cost
of
doing
this
thing.
So
it's
really
a
balancing
test
between
resource
impacts,
cost
of
construction
cost
a
benefit
and
the
reality
of
how
the
waterway
is
used
in
that
location
times.
C
C
E
Right
in
the
text,
because
I
did
put
this
together,
that's
true.
The
alternate
instead
of
the
700-foot,
looks
to
clarify
to
connect
to
the
existing
dredge
and
mark
to
channel
coming
out
of
tarpon
canal.
It
is
approximately
2025
feet,
so
it's
three
times
greater,
so
visually
you
can
see
it's
a
significantly
greater
amount
of
impact.
Sorry
about
the
number
of
confusion.
Okay,.
I
You
you
asked
the
actual
question
that
I
was
going
to
ask
about
the
property
owners
association
and
the
people
on
the
west
side.
Of
the
melanie
point.
I
know
just
a
comment
and
that
I
have
a
similar
number
of
properties
who
have
docks
that
do
whose
boats
can
go
by
my
home
and
if
I
see
a
half
a
dozen
boats
on
a
day.
I
mean
it's
a
lot.
So
if
it's
the
you
know
what
has
been
said,
is
it
the
prospect
of
people
really
not
being
out
there
on
their
boats
every
day's
pretty
accurate.
A
A
K
K
It's
Wayne
incorporated,
which
is
the
homeowners
association
for
colony
point
condominiums.
Thank
you.
Okay,
I,
wasn't
sure
at
what
mr.
Wilson
was
being
made.
A
expert
in
was
it
marine
engineering
that
was
never
put
onto
the
record
and
also
whether
mr.
delici
was
accepted
by
the
City
Council
as
an
expert
in
planning
or
about
usage.
C
K
A
K
Back
again,
Derek
Rooney
Ray
Robinson
law
firm.
On
behalf
of
colony
point
incorporated.
We
oppose
the
the
proposal
finding
that
it
is
inconsistent
with
the
city's
comprehensive
plan
and
land
development
regulations.
It
does
not
adequately
consider
the
impacts
on
adjacent
riparian
rights
and
the
application
fails
to
show
adequate
ownership.
The
latter
two
of
these
issues,
the
city's
not
aware,
are
presently
the
subject
of
a
suit
against
the
applicants
and
the
city
to
resolve
those
issues.
K
I'm
going
to
have
two
witnesses
today
max
4b,
who
for
give
our
as
an
expert
witness
and
planning
and
sherry
Robinson.
The
president
of
Colony
point
I,
do
also
understand
and
agree
with
the
City
Attorney's
opinion
regarding
the
ownership
issue.
It's
something
to
be
dealt
with
by
the
courts.
However,
the
test
today
testimony
today
compels
me
to
address
some
of
this
issue
of
the
declarations
it's
throughout
the
staff
report.
K
Find
no
evidence
in
the
record
that
they
were
extended
or
revitalized
under
the
statute,
so
from
our
perspective
that
those
declarations
provide
that
the
ownership
is
shared
between
the
originals
original
owners.
There's,
oh,
not
the
applicants
here
today
and
that
those
declarations
cannot
be
binding
on
those
property
owners
and
yet
the
conditions
in
the
staff
report.
Everything
else
going
forward
can
constantly
refer
to
the
importance
of
those
declarations
with
no
evidence
about
their
legality.
K
There's
a
man
only
a
letter
added
into
the
record
since
last
year's
hearings,
discussing
by
an
attorney
giving
an
opinion
on
the
declarations,
and
that
opinion
is
just
to
the
contents
not
to
their
continued
validity.
So
I
just
want
to
get
that
on
the
record
and
I
will
now
ask
some
F
max
to
come
up
and
give
his
presentation.
He
has
a
handwritten
IRA
a
copy
of
his
testimony.
I'll
provide
a
copy,
mr.
Bernsen,
as
well
as
his
resume
as
well.
Thank
you
as.
A
He's
making
his
way
to
the
podium
I
do
want
to
share
with
the
City
Council
that
at
4:40
yesterday
afternoon,
the
colony
point
Inc
did
in
fact
file
a
complaint
for
declaratory
judgment
with
the
Circuit
Court
of
Charlotte
County
I
was
copied
with
that
approximately
the
same
late
date
late
time
in
the
afternoon
it
is,
it
is
I,
don't
think
it's
been
served
yet
on
the
city.
It
raises
a
couple
of
legal
issues
which
are
allegations
until
determined
by
the
circuit
court
to
be
accurate.
A
I
would
want
you
to
be
aware
of
that,
but
it
would
have
no
effect
on
your
moving
forward
today.
If
it
turns
out
that
the
applicant
doesn't
have
the
legal
authority
to
make
this
application
and
and
be
binding
upon
those
that
would
otherwise
be
affected,
then
the
court
will
determine
that
and
the
special
exception
will
not
override
the
court's
determination.
But
my
opinion
is,
you
may
move
forward
today,
notwithstanding
the
filing
of
the
app
of
the
complaint
for
declaratory
judgment.
A
H
H
In
my
preparation
for
this
report
and
for
my
testimony
today,
I
visited
the
site
twice
on
August
26th
and
August
28th
2016
I
have
conferred
with
neighboring
property
owners
with
councillors,
Rooney
and
Haman's,
and
have
reviewed
the
application.
The
staff
report,
the
Punta
Gorda
Comprehensive
Plan,
and
your
land
development
code.
H
Writing
and
speaking.
I
am
presenting
you
with
one
copy
of
my
resume
and
a
copy
of
the
AICP
code
of
ethics.
I
have
presented
as
a
planning
director
or
Community
Development
Director.
Hundreds
of
cases
to
bodies
such
as
yours
and
I
have
been
an
expert
witness
in
about
25
jurisdictions,
which
are
listed
in
my
resume.
H
H
Defines
tidal
swamp,
tidal
swamp
is
mangrove
forests.
Mangrove
swamp
mangrove
Islands,
dense,
low
forests
occurring
along
shorelines
of
low
wave
energy
in
southern
Florida
dominant
plants
are
red,
black
and
white
mangroves
and
Buttonwood
providing
vital
protection
to
shorelines
during
tropical
storm
events.
The
subject
property
is
without
doubt,
at
idle
swamp.
Due
to
the
pattern
of
vegetation
as
I
have
observed,
it
objective
to
be
5/3,
ensure
protection
and
explore
restoration
opportunities
of
mangrove
stands
to
increase
shoreline
protection.
H
The
city's
challenges
include
not
only
water
quality
issues,
but
management
of
mangrove
areas,
protection
of
seagrass
area,
restoration
of
oyster
reefs
establishment
and
protection
of
new
water
supply
sources
for
growing
populations
and
businesses,
management
of
waste
generated
by
septic
tank
and
storm
sewer,
outfalls
protection
of
wetland,
areas
for
water
retention,
groundwater,
recharge
and
wildlife,
habitat
and
improving
the
efficiency
of
fresh
water
usage
conservation
element
goal
to
a
1.
The
city's
conservation
programs
are
directed
toward
the
long
term
conservation
and
protection
of
its
natural
resources.
H
That's
not
what's
taking
place
here.
This
is
the
destruction
of
natural
resource
objective
2,
a
1
2
will
cooperate
in
the
strategic
protection
of
natural
resources
in
and
around
the
city,
including
coastal
and
estuarine
resources.
With
such
protection
protection
strategy,
including
the
relationships
of
resources
to
larger
environmental
systems,
including
fisheries,
wildlife,
habit,
habitats
native
vegetative
communities
and
soils
and
including
environmentally
sensitive
land
and
development
practices.
H
Granting
this
application
would
in
no
way
advance
this
important
objective.
It
would
provide
no
opportunity
for
cooperation
with
any
agency.
It
would
protect
no
natural
resources
and
would,
moreover,
destroy
a
patch
of
mangrove
forests
and
its
commensal
habitat.
It
would
radically
change
a
freshwater
basin
to
a
brackish
Inlet
and
would
impact
fisheries,
wildlife,
habitat
native
vegetative
communities
and
soils
in
ways
that
have
not
been
fully
assess
or
modeled
by
the
applicant
or
city
staff
conservation
element
policy
to
a
one
to
one.
H
H
It
is
noteworthy
that
mangrove
land,
which
is
undeniably
environmentally
sensitive
and
irreplaceable,
will
be
destroyed,
resulting
in
a
net
loss
infrastructure
element.
The
city
of
Punta
Gorda
will
provide
a
safe,
efficient
and
cost-effective
stormwater
management
system
which
will
improve
and
preserve
the
man-made
and
natural
drainage
systems.
Minimize
the
effect
of
non-point
sources
on
Charlotte
Harbor
estuary
and
reduce
the
flooding
problems
in
the
community.
H
This
isn't
the
end
of
the
presentation
yet,
but
it's
the
end
of
my
slides
now
the
staff
report
recites
several
policies
of
the
Punta
Gorda
Comprehensive
Plan,
which
call
for
Punta
Gorda
to
be
a
happy,
a
boating,
oriented
community
and
basically
saying
that
boating
is
a
good
thing,
of
course,
but
these
policies
which
I
have
just
cited,
are
not
referred
to
in
the
staff
report.
This
report
is
incomplete.
For
that
reason
and
I
ask
you
to
consider
the
ones
that
I've
just
presented
as
well.
H
Now
I
want
to
go
to
the
matter
of
land
development
code
and
the
canal
cut
through,
which
is
what's
being
requested
here
as
a
special
exception.
The
Punta
Gorda
land
development
code
is
very
thorough.
It's
very
well-written.
It
has
269
definitions
in
Section,
nineteen
point
three
and
canal
cut
through
isn't
one
of
them.
H
H
It
says
I
quote:
the
special
exception
process
provides
the
City
Council
with
the
opportunity
to
exercise
discretionary
power
in
considering
the
establishment
of
certain
uses
that,
due
to
their
nature,
design
or
location,
may
have
the
potential
for
adverse
impacts
on
adjacent
land
uses
and/or
the
health,
safety
and
welfare
of
the
community.
This
ordinance
designates
such
uses
special
exceptions
when
considering
such
uses,
the
City
Council
will
have
the
authority
to
impose
conditions
that
are
designed
to
remove
or
mitigate
potentially
adverse
impacts
upon
the
community
or
other
properties
in
the
vicinity
of
the
proposed
use.
H
Special
exception
uses
shall
only
be
allowed
only
be
allowed
if
reviewed
and
approved,
in
accordance
with
the
procedures
of
this
all
the
end,
the
quote,
although
this
section
contemplates
the
approval
of
applications
for
special
exception
via
the
imposition
of
conditions,
it
is
not
worthy
that
outright
denial
is
the
option
available
to
land
use
decision
makers,
which
is
you
when
no
condition
can
mitigate
the
potential
harm.
In
this
case,
the
mangroves
and
their
habitats.
H
There
are
12
designated
special
exception
uses
and
they
range
from
the
the
relatively
innocuous
home
occupations
and
childcare
to
the
relatively
intense,
such
as
high
schools
and
nursing
homes.
There
is
nothing
that
comes
even
close
to
Canal
cut
through
and
to
the
use
which,
in
the
larger
use,
which
is
before
you,
and
there
is
a
thirteenth
option
which
says
and
any
such
other
uses,
as
deemed
appropriate
in
the
district
by
the
zoning
official.
This
is
an
over
broad
delegation
because
it
does
not
impose
criteria
for
the
determination
of
appropriateness
on
the
zoning
officials
part.
H
It
does
not
require
the
zoning
official
to
compare
the
proposed
use
with
the
other
twelve
uses
and
to
determine
whether
it
is
comparable
with
the
designated
uses.
It
does
not
require
a
written
statement
from
the
zoning
official
explaining
justifications
for
approval
and
considerations
which
the
zoning
official
made
in
reaching
a
conclusion.
It
provides
no
opportunity
for
challenge
or
appeal,
except
through
this
special
exception
hearing
process
which
were
going
through
today.
H
The
staff
report
provides
no
analysis
of
potential
environmental
inputs
and
the
the
Florida
Supreme
Court
established
a
two-step
standard
for
review
of
a
rezoning
application
and
special
exceptions
fall
under
that
by
local
government
boards
in
Brevard
County
v
Snyder
in
1993.
The
first
step,
which
is
the
council's
business
today,
is
that
a
land
owner
seeking
to
rezone
property
has
the
burden
of
proving
that
the
proposal
is
consistent
with
the
comprehensive
plan
and
complies
with
all
procedural
requirements
of
the
zoning
ordinance.
Close
quote.
H
G
F
L
First
of
all,
our
concern.
Our
first
concern
is
that
the
proposed
channel
and
project
will
adversely
affect
the
association's
riparian
property
rights,
including
any
future
plans.
Colony
point
may
have
to
construct
our
own
docks
on
the
western
and
northern
shores.
The
second
concern
we
have
is
that
the
proposal
will
have
negative
impacts
on
Colony
point
and
affects
the
owners.
Quiet
enjoyment
of
their
property.
L
I
will
say
that
I'm
on
the
northern
shore
and
and
I'm
about
five
feet
from
the
seawall
on
the
winners
of
our
lanai
and
personally,
my
concern
is
that
my
dolphin
buddies
that
come
past
my
window
every
morning
around
nine
o'clock
well
I'm
having
my
coffee
will
be
annoyed
so
and
so
I'm
concerned
about
that.
So
we
just
want
to
have
it
on
the
record
that
those
are
the
two
primary
concerns
of
the
colony
point:
63
owners
and
I.
Thank
you.
Thank.
K
K
We
find
that
the
staff
report
and
the
applicants
have
been
cherry-picking
the
most
supportive
comprehensive
plan
elements
for
the
consideration,
this
application
and
that,
based
on
mr.
4yz
analysis
that
he
addressed,
they
did
not
meet
requirements
of
the
plan
for
your
special
exception
criteria,
which
is
consistency,
complan
and
as
a
result
that
they
have
failed
to
meet
their
burden
and
that,
in
addition,
due
to
the
issues
of
ownership
and
plan,
inconsistency
that
they
also
have
not
supported
their
request
with
competence
and
stan
shil
evidence.
Thank
you.
Thank.
F
M
M
We
used
to
represent
First
Federal,
Savings
and
Loan
Association
for
years,
and
they
wouldn't
accept
any
title
opinion
from
anyone,
but
the
far
law
firm
and
they
wouldn't
accept
title
insurance
because
they
believed
that
the
far
law
firm,
which
was
the
firm
that
developed,
was
on
the
board
of
directors
and
was
the
attorney
for
punic
or
dials
knew
the
most
about
the
title
issues
that
that
the
lender
had
and
we
were
schooled
in
that
I've
examined.
Abstracts
I've
dealt
with
the
law
concerning
title
to
Land's
I've
developed
the
declarations
of
restrictions
for
many
communities.
M
I
have
fought
to
enforce
the
deed
restrictions
and
have
fought
against
deed
restrictions
throughout
my
career,
I
can
tell
you
that
that
the
city
has
not
adequately
reviewed
and
understood
the
circumstance
of
ownership.
As
concerns
this
application.
You
know
the
there's
a
and
there's
a
signature
page
on
your
special
exception
application
and
it
says
I,
the
undersigned
being.
M
First,
duly
sworn
testify
and
say
that
I
am
the
owner,
the
attorney
attorney,
in
fact
agent,
lessee
or
representative
of
the
owners
of
all
of
the
property
described
and
which
is
the
subject
matter
of
the
proposed
hearing
and
I
I'm
authorized
to
sign
the
application
by
the
owner
or
owners,
and
that,
by
submitting
this
application,
the
owners
of
the
property
grant
consent
to
the
zoning
official
to
enter
upon
the
subject
property.
So
there's
some
significance
to
submitting
an
application
and
the
city
has
taken
the
position.
M
Well,
if
they
say
they're,
the
owners
they're
the
owners
but
they're,
very
application
that
they
submitted
and
the
information
that
was
provided
and
the
continuing
reference
to
the
Punta
Gorda
is
section
24
declaration
of
restrictions
which
was
recorded
in
1984,
in
which,
at
this
time
is
no
longer
as
valid.
The
only
thing
that
survives
from
that
declaration
restrictions
is
where
there
was
a
conveyance
through
the
recording
of
that
declaration
of
ownership,
an
undivided
ownership
for
the
land
under
the
the
lakes
under
these
stormwater
lakes.
And
you
see
that
in
there
was
a
reference
to
it.
M
It
says
its.
It
is
understood
and
agreed
that
the
owner
of
each
of
the
four
reference
Lots
and
condominium
units,
which
may
be
subsequently
built
thereon
immediately
adjacent
to
the
lake
as
described
and
attached
an
exhibit
a
which
Lots
are
described
in
the
attachment.
B
shall
have
an
undivided
interest
in
all
of
the
lake
that
goes
on
to
say
which
interest
shall
be
equivalent
to
the
owners
obligation
to
pay
maintenance
thereon
as
set
forth
herein,
and
then
it
goes
on
to
say
other
things.
M
It
says
nothing
shall
prohibit
the
association
of
the
majority
of
the
adjacent
unit
owners
from
seeking
an
outlet
from
the
lake
through
the
harbor,
but
that
doesn't
say
that
you
have
that
you
don't
have
to
get
the
signature
of
every
owner.
It
just
says
that
those
people
can
do
that.
Well,
you've
got
a
reconstituted,
Punta,
Gorda,
Isles,
PGI,
section
20
for
property
owners
association.
It
has
died
of
its
own
lack
of
attention,
2007
who
got
reinstated
and
then
it
didn't
exist
again
and
then
it
got
reconstituted.
M
But
you
know
when
you
reconstitute
something
where
there's
no
effective
declaration
of
restrictions.
You
no
longer
have
a
compelled
member
when
there
was
a
declaration
of
restrictions
that
was
in
effect,
that
declaration
said
every
property
owner
will
also
be
a
member
of
the
Association,
so
you've
got
compunction.
You've
got
the
requirement
that
they
participate
in
the
Association.
There
is
no
such
continuing
obligation,
and
so
when
they
say,
we've
had
a
vote
and
put
this
thing
back
together
and
we've
got
a
property
owners
association.
That's
not
a
compelled
property
owners
association.
M
If
I
don't
want
to
be
in
it.
I
don't
have
to
be
in
it,
even
if
I'm
in
the
property
that
was
otherwise
declared.
So
you
already
heard
a
statement
that
the
Punta
Gorda
is
section
24
declaration
restrictions
has
died
because
it's
terminated
it's
too
old
and
it
wasn't
renewed
and
so
through
the
action
of
law.
Without
doing
anything
else,
those
declarations
no
longer
exist.
M
The
only
thing
that
survives
from
those
declaration
restrictions
is
the
ownership
that
happened
at
the
time
that
the
the
Declaration
was
recorded,
because
you
can't
take
that
ownership
back
away
that
doesn't
die
with
the
declarations
that
happened.
That's
manifest
it's
there,
those
people
own
that,
but
all
those
other
conditions
and
restrictions
and
other
qualifiers
nothing
will
prohibit
the
Association
majority
from
seeking
an
outlet
that
died.
That's
not
effective
anymore
and
yes,
we
have
asked
circuit
court
to
declare
our
rights
and
the
rights
of
the
city
to
have
have
accepted
this
application.
M
We
didn't
ask
for
an
injunction,
you
can
move
forward.
Yes,
you
can't,
should
you
no
you
shouldn't,
and
you
should
find
that
the
application
is
inadequate
because
it
doesn't
have
each
of
the
owners
there's
there
are
there.
Are
the
applicants
there's
only
two
of
them
that
are
in
the
list
of
property
owners?
There's
only
two
of
them.
The
all
the
rest
of
the
40
property
owners
are
not
there.
M
So
there's
two
and
then
there's
38
that
aren't
part
of
this
application
and
so
you're
asking
that
you've
been
asked
on
behalf
of
some
group
of
them,
some
two
of
them
to
do
something
when
you
need
all
40
of
those
signatures.
So
what
are
you
doing
you
you,
you,
you
believe
in
upholding
your
rules,
your
requirements.
Well,
I
mean.
Why
would
you
let
this
go
forward
and
say:
oh,
you
got
to
go
figure
this
out
in
Circuit
Court.
Well,
that's
what
we
were
told
at
the
Planning
Commission,
and
so
we
were
invited.
M
M
You
you've
I,
can't
believe
that
you're
doing
this
frankly
and
you
shouldn't
do
it.
So
that's
the
ownership
issue
and
you
should
really
take
that
to
heart
really
take
that
heart,
because
there's
owners
that
aren't
here
and
Europe
about
to
I
think
that
trains
out
of
the
on
the
tracks
and
running
full-speed
I
think
that
that
I
think
that
you're
gonna
approve
this
and
you
shouldn't,
because
you
it's
not
properly
before
you
that's.
The
first
thing.
M
Second
thing
is
that
there
are
riparian
rights
that
the
are
impacted
and
haven't,
and
that
has
to
do
with
what
is
the
effect
of
the
approval
on
the
neighbors.
Well,
the
neighbors
that
you
have
number
one
the
applicant
says:
neighbors
aren't
harmed
neighbors
are
gonna,
get
benefited,
it's
gonna,
be
they're
gonna,
get
docks,
they're
gonna
be
have
increased
value
for
their
property
with
yeah.
That's
the
ones
with
in
there,
they're
gonna
get
a
dock
on
the
lake
they
get
access
out.
M
M
Well,
let
me
tell
you,
there's
a
requirement
for
the
agencies
to
get
2-4
feet
with
a
dock
that
care
about
what
the
city
of
Punta
Gorda
x'
rules
are,
and
so,
and
maybe
you
don't
either
and
as
a
matter
of
fact,
when
somebody
said
well,
there's
a
two-year
limitation.
Well,
let's
change
the
ordinance.
Well,
why
not
change
the
ordinance
that
says
that
we
can
go
more
than
80
feet,
so
there's
a
riparian
littoral
right.
That
goes
to
Colony
point
without
argument.
M
There's
an
argument
for
the
Pollack's
you
get
there
for
the
Pollack's
in
two
steps:
number
one!
You
also
already
have
in
front
of
you
that
that
where
the
Pollack's,
which
is
the
the
residential
structure
immediately
next
to
colony,
Point
condominium
when
that
was
developed
by
Punta,
Gorda
Isles,
that
was
dredged.
That
was
part
of
the
navigable
waters
of
the
state
of
Florida
in
the
United
States.
When
that
dredge
changed
that
and
put
that
fill
up
there.
Well,
you
know
what
formally
sovereign
and
formally
navigable
waters
when
they
get
filled
still
retain
riparian
rights.
M
That's
a
little
twist
that
goes
in
there,
that's
a
twist
that
there
are
still
riparian
rights
and
then
an
add-on
to,
although
we're
the
other
side
of
the
road,
the
city
of
Punta
Gorda
has
taken
the
position
that
that,
rather
than
the
what
a
body
of
law
considers
that
that
that
that,
when
you
vacate
a
road
that
it
goes,
that
it
goes
by
after
acquired
title,
you
operate
on
the
on
the
opinion
of
your
attorney.
That
says:
no,
you
you
own
under
the
road
that
you
actually
have
an
ownership.
That's
existent
right
now!
M
That
then
has
an
easement
over
it,
and
so
we've
got
something
that
has
riparian
rights.
That
has
a
road,
those
in
front
of
us
and
then
the
water
and
I
assert
to
you
that
we
have
right
period
rights
that
the
Pollack's
have
riparian
rights
littoral,
because
that's
the
proper
term
littoral
reallyö
in
tidal
waters.
We
use
riparian
as
a
catch-all
phrase,
but
it's
really
littoral
I've
written
published
about
riparian
and
littoral
rights.
I'm
not
sitting
just
knew
something
I'm
trying
to
figure
out
I
mean
I,
know
David.
Does
this
too
he's
well-versed
in
it?
M
He's
recognized
in
it?
We've
worked
in
very
similar
circumstances
over
the
years,
and
he
knows
that
what
I'm
saying
to
you
is
true
that
there's
an
argument
that
it
comes
down
to
we've
got
some
riparian
rights,
but
whether
the
Pollack's
themselves
have
the
riparian
rights
or
not.
There's
no
doubt
that
Colony
Point
has
them
and
they're
the
agencies
would
require
in
order
to
do
resource
protection
that
they
have
if
they
have
a
dock.
That
goes
out,
that
they
have
to
get
2-4
feet
so
that
they
don't
cause
resource
damage
that
they
don't
cause
prop
churn.
M
So
they
don't
have
a
requirement
to
do
a
dredge.
Mr.
Wilson
says
oh
well.
They
can
just
dredge
in
there.
You
know.
That's,
that's
not.
What's
preferred
in
an
aquatic
preserve
we're
talking
about
an
aquatic
preserve
where
the
rules
say
you
preserve
this
stuff,
so
even
getting
a
dock
out,
there
would
be
a
difficulty,
but
when
you
put
a
channel
in
front
of
them
and
and
cut
them
off
from
their
access
to
the
channel,
you
know
this
is
what
riparian
littoral
rights
were
really
about.
It's
it
has
to
do
with.
M
This
notion
that
if
you
were
on
a
navigable
body
that
you
had
the
right
to
to
access-
and
it
included
the
right
for
many
years
and
many
jurisdictions
to
Wharf
out
in
order
to
in
order
to
it,
to
have
that
access
and
what
this
project
does
is
it
takes
away
the
ability
to
even
ask
to
try
to
have
proper
access
on
navigable
waters
for
Colony
point
and
I
assert
for
my
client
also,
and
why
you
heard
mr.
Wilson
say
it.
M
He
has
an
obligation
to
keep
the
cost
down
for
his
client,
not
only
to
Tec
the
resources
but
to
protect
their
pocketbook,
and
so
what
they're
doing
in
this
and
they're
asking
you
to
help
them
to
do
is
to
externalize
their
costs
on
to
colony
point
and
on
to
my
client
and
that's
what
they
and
that's
what
they've
done
in
this
entire
thing.
They
won't
even
look
at
another
access
because
they've
got
other.
M
By
having
that
additional,
and
so
the
analysis
has
always
been
Oh
foot
traffic
and
motor
vehicle
traffic,
but
they
leave
out
this
idea
that
the
boats
and
then
they
want
it
two
ways
and
I've
heard
all
of
us:
do
it
a
little
bit
this
way
oh
I
wish
I
could
use
my
boat
more.
You
know
we
don't
really
use
our
boats
that
much
I
get
it.
But
do
you
start
with
the
notion
that
you're
that
that
this
is
not
going
to
that
all
of
these
people,
a
lot
of
them
retired?
M
A
lot
of
them
here
for
the
boating
community
aren't
going
to
be
using
their
boats.
I.
Don't
think
that
you
should
start
with
that
assumption.
Where
is
the
backing
back
up?
That
says
that
I
mean
we've
got
anecdotal.
We
know
that
yes,
sort
of
feels
that
way,
but
there's
no
evidence.
That's
been
presented
that
that
those
people
aren't
going
to
be
using
their
boats
and
that
it's
not
going
to
be
an
impact
and
then-
and
so
they
say
it
one
way
they
say.
M
If
all
of
those
owners
get
a
boat
dock,
why
wouldn't
they
go
get
them
to
sign
onto
this?
Instead
of
dancing
around
it,
I
mean
really,
that's
the
that's.
The
issue
is,
is
there's
people
the
evidence
they
present?
It
says
we,
we
have
that's
a
section
24
property
owners
association
and
it's
all
these
members,
but
that's
not
true,
because
there's
no
compunction
and
they
don't
have-
and
they
don't
have
all
of
the
owners-
that's
right
in
the
declaration
that
they're
trying
to
rely
upon.