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From YouTube: Punta Gorda City Council 5-6-15 Part 4
Description
Description
A
B
C
D
C
So
would
the
city
be
I'm,
just
you
know
we
we
can
do
in
kind,
but
we
can
only
do
so
much
I
mean
there's
the
group
paid
I'm,
not
sure
how
much
for
what
they
the
work
that
they
had
done.
I'm
just
worried
about
the
financial
impact
to
the
city.
I
mean
I
want
to
go
in
this
with
my
eyes
wide
open
or
we
would
we
be
hiring
with
you
know.
How
would
we
get
that
information.
E
F
E
Would
be
presenting
to
you
a
game
plan
of
how
to
tackle
this,
and
if
it's
more
of
a
global
perspective,
that's
fine,
but
as
city
staff,
we
would
do
as
much
legwork
and
background
work
as
we
can.
Some
of
the
city
staff
here
has
been
at
this
project
for
a
number
of
years,
so
we
have
some
background
included
in
this
uni.
Everybody
needs
to
understand.
E
We
will
be
issuing
eventually
at
some
point
in
time,
a
proposal
process
for
engineering
firms
to
help
us
help
us
the
city
with
all
of
the
engineering
and
permitting
review
that's
going
to
take
place.
There
is
any
a
very
large
number
of
agencies
that
are
going
to
be
involved
in
helping
us
review
these
various
options
that
we
may
come
up
with.
E
The
Hans
Wilson
report
talked
about
a
number
of
about
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
that
may
or
may
not
be
the
proposal
cost
we
don't
know
we
haven't
gone
out
for
it
yet
so,
if
you're
thinking
about
what
are
some
of
the
dollars
involved,
that
you
may
be
faced
with
to
try
and
get
the
answer
to
try
and
get
the
answer?
Is
this
project
permit
able
and
if
so,
we're
we're
talking
in
the
pub
we
could
be
talking
hundred
thousand
or
more
depending
on
what
comes
back
staff
time?
No,
you
don't!
Our
time
is
our
time.
E
C
E
The
there
is
an
intermediate
step,
but
it's
never
gotten
beyond
it.
We
have
taken
the
intermediate
steps
in
the
past
and
that
his
staff
has
gone
ahead,
working
with
various
groups
and
one
time
it
was
the
waterfront
Advisory
Committee,
putting
together
a
a
presentation.
We
came
up
with
estimated
cost
after
initial
discussions
with
the
Department
of
Environmental
Protection
and
we
didn't
get
anywhere
so.
G
See
you
know
years
ago,
I
was
asked
where
I
thought
this
project
really
belonged
and
when
I
look
at
this,
if
you
look
at
it
just
from
a
PG
I
perspective
visit
the
issue
that
has
been
brought
forward
by
the
citizens.
It's
really
a
PG,
I
canal
problem.
G
We
in
burnt
star
else,
didn't
bring
forward
a
problem,
we're
okay.
You
know.
We
know
that
we
have
what
we
have
and
we
are
actually
working
with
the
alligator
Creek
waterway
committee
and
and
we
are
actually
very
close
to
getting
allocated
registers
to
six
feet
and
we're
working.
Our
canal
advisory
committee
is
working
with
the
sea
staff
on
and
getting
whatever
information.
G
We
need
because
we're
looking
at
trying
to
read
reg
our
perimeter
canal
and
that's
taking
a
lot
of
investigation
in
any
cost,
for
that
is
coming
out
of
our
canal
maintenance
funds
and
so
to
me,
if
there's
a
need
for
some
dollars,
it
may
be
prudent
to
take
a
look
at
the
punta
gorda
isles
canal
advisory
committee
funds
to
do
that.
I
realized
Rachel
that
it.
This
is
something
that
only
the
southern
half
will
truly
benefit
from,
but
that
may
be
a
source
of
funding
that
might.
B
H
F
I
The
for
the
record,
my
name
is
Hans
Wilson.
To
repeat
the
question
was:
have
I
met
with
the
regulatory
agencies
to
discuss
the
concept
plan
we
presented
to
City
Council,
and
the
answer
that
is
yes,
part
of
that
was
discovered
to
determine
what
kind
of
mitigation
requirements
would
be
a
part
of
a
permit
application.
Obviously,
this
project
has
to
go
through
state
and
federal,
permitting
that
includes
our
investigation,
that
things
like
the
viability
of
the
barge
canal
and
also
talked
about
the
Corps
of
Engineers,
permitting
alternatives,
analysis,
etc.
So,
yes,
we
have
met.
H
I
H
H
H
But
but
typically
that's
where
you
start
doing
your
due
diligences
by
talking
to
the
agencies
and
giving
them
what
you
have
and
trying
to
get
the
best
read
from
them
as
to
whether
or
not
even
with
mitigation
and
even
with
all
kinds
of
other
stuff,
based
on
their
prior
experience,
based
on
their
knowledge
of
the
area,
whether
it's
a
a
pension,
alief,
feasible
project
or
you're,
wasting
your
time
and
I.
Don't
know
if
we
got
that
yet.
I
The
DEP
when
we
propose
the
project-
the
sense
I
got
was
this
was
a
project
that
had
some
merit,
otherwise
I
wouldn't
have
wasted
under
gorda
boaters
alliance
time,
so
I
think
there's
a
general
recognition
of
the
need
for
additional
access
simply
from
the
stressors
associated
with
developing
this
waterfront
community
and
I.
Think
the
DEP
is
fairly
realistic
on
recognizing
that
and
as
long
as
the
city
comes
in
with
an
application
that
does
the
best
it
can
to
create
that
access
and
minimizes
the
environmental
impacts
as
much
as
possible.
I
I
think
you've
got
a
project
that
will
fly
certainly
with
the
DEP.
Now
there's
some
unknowns.
I
think
Howard
talked
about
the
myriad
of
agencies
that
we
have
to
go
through
and
the
one
agency
that
we
can't
get
any
feedback
from
is
National
Marine
fishery
service
on
impacts
of
small
to
sawfish.
However,
I
think
if
you
take
a
look
at
what
the
mitigation
that
we
had
proposed,
which
was
excavating
filled,
areas
in
creating
tidal
areas
does
in
fact
create
additional
habitat
for
small
to
sawfish.
I
D
Been
talking
about
this
project
for
many
many
many
years,
if
we
don't
find
a
way
to
take
this
particular
opportunity
to
move
this
project
forward
to
some
extent,
I
think
that
we
may
be
shelving
it
for
years
to
come
with
facing
the
growth
that
we
are
looking
at
in
the
tonic
water
and
recognizing
that
we
are
a
boating
community.
I
think
that
we
need
to
just
move
forward
least
with
it,
with
a
with
a
basic
permitting
process
to
see
where
we
could
wind
up
with
it.
J
Yes,
Kim
I
think
we
all
agree
that
it's
a
great
project
and
we'd
like
to
see
it
happen.
Why
don't
we
ask
Howard
and
staff
to
get
a
plan
together
of
what
that
would
look
like
associated
costs,
I'm,
not
really
sure
why
we're
painting
over
the
the
funding
when
the
group
has
already
said
they
would
fund
it.
So
if
you
know,
obviously
a
poll
would
have
to
be
taken
for
that
for
those
residents
to
make
sure
that
I
mean
we
did
have
850
people
and
most
of
them
stood
up
at
the
last
meeting.
J
So
there's
probably
people
who
didn't
show
up
but
I
think
it.
You
know
we
can
sit
here
and
talk
about
it,
but
if
we
don't
know
exactly
what
we're
talking
about
it,
what
kind
of
dollars
we're
talking
about
if
we're
talking
about
going
into
permitting
I
like
Nancy's
idea
of
looking
at
it
globally,
is
that
the
right
spot
is
there
another
spot?
That
would
be
more
appropriate
like.
G
What
honestly
not
to
interrupt
you,
but
in
the
PGI?
That
really
is
the
only
area
where
there
are
options
right
in
the
southern
part.
There
really
is
no
option.
Alligator
creek
is
the
only
options,
so
it's
really
looking
at.
What
can
we
do
to
help
alleviate
that
and
what
really
will
best
serve
the
community
as.
B
A
whole
karen
is
Rachel
David.
H
H
J
E
B
B
And
so
we
are
going
to
wait
to
hear
from
back
from
our
staff
in
terms
of
next
steps.
I
want
to
thank
Hans
Wilson
and
the
committee
again
that
worked
very
hard
on
that
study
and
funded
it
for
us.
Thank
you,
I
assume
that
the
study
that
you're
going
to
again
begin
looking
at
as
part
of
your
process.
Yes.
B
G
E
B
K
K
Closer
okay
that
better!
Oh,
thank.
You,
however,
received
a
comment
from
a
business
owner
who
had
requested
a
barber
pole
as
part
of
his
overall
signage
and
the
way
the
cited
code
is
written.
We
couldn't
approve
it.
So
how
would
ask
mr.
check
with
the
Punta
Gorda
chamber
of
commerce,
as
well
as
the
downtown
Merchants
Association,
to
get
their
input
and
both
entities
did
support?
They
said
they
didn't
have
any
issues
with
the
allowing
barber
poles.
In
some
of
the
draft
comments
I
did,
I
did
get
some
comments
back.
K
One
was
that
it
is
not
clear
that
the
barber
pole
be
affixed
to
the
building
that
it
shouldn't
be
just
that
outside
or
growl
mountain
and
the
style
of
the
poles
should
be
historical
and
design
so
that
it
is
incorporated
into
the
character
of
the
district
and
the
last
one
was
the
distance
number
six
on
the
list.
The
distance
from
the
ground
to
the
lower
edge
of
the
barber
pole
shall
be
seven
feet
or
greater
when
located
over
a
pedestrian
walkway.
C
Definitely
I
like
the
some
of
those
pictures.
You
had
we're
a
little
scary
like
that
led
one,
because
obviously
we
don't
allow
any
flashing
lights.
So
you
know
that
would
kind
of
be
contradictory
if
we
allow
them
to
have
that,
and
I
like
the
idea
that
being
affixed
to
the
building
the
you
know
the
historical
just
as
long
as
it
wasn't,
I
mean
I,
don't
even
know
if
I
want
to
be
that
specific
to
say
not
led,
but
you
know
something
traditional
I
guess
haven't
said
yeah,
that's
it
come
the.
D
D
J
H
K
G
E
Yes,
we
had
a
less-than-stellar
discussion
at
the
joint
School
Board
County
Commission
city
meeting
yesterday,
so
here's
where
we
are
city
attorney
has
opined
that
no
petrol
is
going
to
have
to
come
in
front
of
the
city
through
the
special
exception
process
and
apply
for
the
ability
to
construct
their
station
within
the
city
within
the
zoning
area
and
all
the
building
permits
and
everything
associated
with
it.
J
I
I
think
the
letter
is
fine
I.
What
I
did
was
going
to
set
up
a
meeting
and
go
talked
with
Jerry
Olivo
and
Ian
Vincent
I
mean
no
one
called
after
the
meeting
to
offer
any
information,
so
I
think
sending
the
letters
I
mean
we
obviously
have
questions.
There
is
a
school
board
meeting
next
week.
I
thought
I
would
go
to
that.
I
know
we
have
a
disk
of
one
so
I'm,
okay
to
send
Allah.
That.
B
C
You
I
would
prefer
that
we've
requests
a
formal
public
meeting
with
them.
I
mean
one
on
one.
It's
in
my
opinion,
it's
past
that
point.
I've
heard
that
they've
refused
to
meet
with
concern
residents
and
taxpayers
that
concerns
me
I
mean
the
people
that
I've
heard
from
they.
They
want
a
public
outlet
if
we
go
to
close
door
with
them.
It
defeats
part
of
that
purpose.
The
other
issue
that
I'm
feeling
from
the
meeting
yesterday
was
that
they
knew
we
were
going
to
bring
it
up.
C
It
almost
feels
like
it
was
blocked
from
the
agenda,
and
then
they
said
they
weren't
prepared
to
discuss
it.
I
feel
very
strongly
now
that
we're
in
a
slippery
slope,
because
we've
been
a
partner
I
mean
our
staff
has
met
with
their
staff.
We've
been
involved
with
the
with
the
contractual
process.
Is
that
right,
Howard?
No.
E
C
They
won't
even
talk
to
us
about
it.
I
mean
I,
don't
know
if
I
feel,
like
the
city
should
become
a
user.
At
this
point,
if
they're
not
even
going
to
address
concerns
that
you
know
I
guess
maybe
we're
ultra
transparent.
Maybe
that's
why
I'm
feeling
the
way
I
am
that
you
know
we
go
down
to
the
minor
detail
of
whether
or
not
the
barbershop
cold
should
rotate
or
not
I
mean
we
talk
about
everything
and
I.
C
Come
a
parent,
so
I'm
a
little
bit
of
motion
more
emotional
on
that
side
of
it,
because
you
know
this
is
my
kid.
This
is
her
school.
This
is
the
school
that
I
went
to
then
my
husband
went
to
that.
You
know
family
history,
all
that
I
have
in
my
back
pocket
too,
but
just
the
whole
way
that
it's
unfolding
makes
me
feel
very
uncomfortable
and.
B
C
There
sorry
there
got
to
finish
that
from
what
you
said
there,
implying
that
we
did
not
attend
their
school
board
meetings,
they're
not
going
to
come
to
us.
We
have
to
go
to
them
and
that's
their
stance
right
now,
again,
I
just
don't
feel
comfortable
with
that
I
mean
we
had
a
joint
meeting.
Yes,
there
was
a
reason
why
we
were
there,
but
that
doesn't
mean
we
couldn't
preclude
us
from
discussing
other
issues
that
are
relevant
to
zoning
land.
C
B
J
Agree
it
was
they
knew
we
were
going
to
talk
about
it
actually,
a
month
ago,
when
the
citizens
started
coming,
ask
that
it
be
put
on
the
agenda
and
they,
you
know,
didn't
put
it
on
the
agenda
or
even
had
the
opportunity,
I
feel
to
say
we,
this
isn't
the
appropriate
place.
How
about
we
set
up
another
meeting
or
or
to
reach
out
to
us?
I
I
really
didn't
want
to
be
confrontational.
I
just
wanted
to
know
is
that
site
been
set
in
stone,
have
they
met?
When
do
they
plan
on
meeting
with
the
city?
J
You
know
looking
at
the
special
exception
and
that
that
type
of
thing,
when
I
looked
at
their
contract,
they
have
a
they
have
to
help
no
petrol
market
to
the
I
think
of
it
as
public
but
the
private
sector.
So
now
we're
going
to
have
not
just
the
30
buses,
because
I'll
tell
you
I,
think
the
group
everyone
I've
talked
to
if
it
if
it
were
just
going
to
service
those
30
buses
that
are
there
right
now,
I,
don't
think
anybody
would
have
a
problem
with
it.
J
Even
the
group
that
that
is
worried
about
it,
they
are
not.
No
one
is
against
the
ng.
They
don't
like
the
location,
it's
not
a
safe
place
for
the
kids
or
with
the
school
traffic
that
are
going
on
there.
That
was
my
only
question.
Is
there
an
alternate
location?
If
this
one
doesn't
work
out?
How
are
you
going
to
determine
what
the
traffic
flow
is?
How
is
that
going
to
work
where
they
you
know?
Are
we
going
to
have
18
wheelers,
going
down
Carmelita
Cooper,
all
that
kind
of
stuff?
What.
B
B
E
You
again,
based
on
what
our
city
attorney
has
said
when
they
apply
for
a
special
exception,
we
will
then
be
able
to
through
the
Planning
Commission
and
city
council,
have
a
public
discussion
and
have
all
of
our
issues
fire
down.
Thankfully,
that's
when
we
wonder
I
can
get
all
these
okay,
but
that's,
but
we
need
to
start
the
process.
I
guess
we
need
to
put
them
on
notice,
correct
what
I.
H
H
H
Would
argue
that
that
even
a
school
board
is
not
exempt
from
our
zoning,
but
clearly
the
no
petrol
would
not
be
exempt
from
either
our
zoning
or
the
building
permit
process
anton
and
getting
them
to
know
that
now,
or
sooner
than
later,
is
probably
helpful
and
it
doesn't
preclude
whatever
other
efforts
that
you
might
have
with
respect
to
the
school
board
to
try
get
it
somewhere
else.
No.
G
I
yeah
I
felt
like
this
is
about
a
year
ago.
We
were
getting
rebuffed
by
another
organization,
so
I
said
oh
good.
We're
getting!
Is
this
again
what's
to
say
that
they're
even
going
to
listen
to
this
special
exception?
Can
they
because
they
seem
to
say
think
that
they're
exempt
by
state
statute
from
having
to
do
anything
but
no
petrol.
A
E
A
E
C
11
trash
trucks
are
not
gonna,
make
or
break
this
gas
station.
I
mean
yes,
we've
all
discussed
the
benefits
and
we
would
like
to
move
to
that
type
of
energy.
Alternative
energy
sources
nobody's
disputing
that,
but
our
11
trash
trucks,
potential
trash
trucks
in
the
future
are
not
going
to
make
or
break
this
operation,
so
I
mean
I
would
even
be
willing
to
pull
my
support
from
the
project
just
to
get
the
attention
and
say,
wait
a
minute
whoa
hold
up.
You
know
this.
A
E
B
C
And
I
make
a
suggestion:
did
you
would
this
board
the
have
consensus
for
you
to
send
the
chairman
of
the
school
district?
A
formal
letter
asking
for
joint
meeting
at
a
public
location?
Have
a
public
notice
meeting
to
discuss
the
issue
and
see
what
kind
of
response
we
get
I
mean
it
is
in
our
city
limits
it's
in
our
backyard
and
in
the
county
if
they
move
it
from
where
it
is
now
guess
where
it's
gonna
go
somebody
else's
backyard,
so
I
mean
what's
the
problem
with
having
the
public
meeting.
That's
the
question.
J
B
C
B
E
H
A
H
H
D
H
H
It
yeah
okay,
yeah,
we
mellitus,
you
may
recall
that
the
County
Commission
has
advertised
and
is
it
a
process
of
amending
their
comprehensive
plan?
The
part
that
is
of
greatest
concern
to
us
is
that
portion
of
the
comprehensive
plan
that.
H
Takes
out
the
prohibition
against
amending
or
renewing
snakes,
renewing
or
extending
existing
mining
permits
without
modifying
or
mending
the
comprehensive
plan,
future
land
use
map
to
allow
the
mineral
resource
extraction,
future
land
use
designation
and,
in
essence,
what
that
means
is
that
they
can
move
forward.
If
the.
H
H
Basically,
that's
the
focus
of
what
the
environmental
evaluation
is
at
its
best.
Some
of
the
older
permits
really
didn't
even
go
that
far,
and
so
what
my
primary
concern
in
the
theory
that
I
was
I
was
working
under
was
that
there
were
impacts
to
shale
Creek
by
virtue
of
a
depletion
of
water
in
the
surficial
aquifer
that
feeds
shale
Creek.
That
was
going
uninvestigated
by
both
the
county
and
state
and
and
to
explain
why
that
is
significant.
H
I
have
this
graphic
here
that
I'll
describe
verbally
and
then
maybe
when
we
get
the
email
you'll
be
able
to
see
what
I'm
talking
about
in
the
natural
condition,
pre
mining
situation,
you
have
a
certain
amount
of
rainfall
that
comes
down
onto
the
site.
You
have
a
certain
amount
of
evaporation
that
naturally
occurs.
H
You
have
certain
amount
of
seepage
that
goes
into
the
ground,
which
then
feeds
the
surficial
aquifer,
which
feeds
shale
Creek,
and
then
you
have
a
certain
amount
of
runoff
which,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
may
or
may
not
contribute
to
shale
Creek
and
that's
the
natural.
That's
the
natural
condition
of
all
the
permits
that
I
have
investigated
and
they
were
leased,
there's
12
lines
with
numerous
permits,
both
from
Swift
mud
and
from
Charlotte
County,
those
that
contained
a
water
balance
analysis
and
not
all
them
did,
but
those
that
contain
they
wore
balance.
H
Analysis
did
not
talk
about
the
pre
mining
condition.
It
was
always
what
is
the
balance
at
the
at
the
end,
and
so
you
don't
have
the
opportunity
to
see
what
the
impact
of
the
mine
is
going
to
have
on
existing
conditions
that
contribute
to
the
flow
of
shale,
Creek,
and
so
I
said
in
the
pre-development
situation.
You've
got
rain
coming
in,
you've,
got
evaporation,
going
out,
get
run
off,
you've
got
seepage
into
the
aquifers
and
each
one
of
those
should
be
properly
identified
to
determine
what
the
components
are.
H
During
the
active
operation
of
the
mind,
which
is
the
middle
slide
again,
you
have
you
have
rainfall,
you
have
evaporation,
you
have
seepage
and
you
have
inputs
from
wells
that
are
intended
to
make
up
the
water
and
in
the
example
that
I
gave
the
graphic
there
is
a
an
identifiable
and
market
difference
between,
for
example,
the
pre-development
seepage
of
of
water
into
the
surficial
aquifer
versus
the
amount
of
water
that's
seeping
into
the
surficial
aquifer
during
the
active
mining
operation,
and
I
will
say
just
for
the
record.
H
This
is
a
graphic
that
I
got
from
a
a
mine
permit,
application
from
lee
county
lake
accounting
from
2001.
It's
not
it's,
not.
The
numbers
are
not
going
to
be
identical
to
the
numbers
that
are
involved
in
shale
Creek,
but
the
concept
in
general
is-
and
so,
if
until
you
have
that
free
mining
condition,
you
have
the
active
mining
operation
and
when
I
go
back
and
look
at
and
verbally
describe,
what's
shown
on
the
graph
mining
condition,
the
the
evaporation
has
increased
from
the
mine
versus
the
precondition,
pre-construction
condition.
H
So
a
significant
increase
in
the
amount
of
evaporation
than
what
occurred
naturally.
Also
when
you
compare
the
pre-development
mining
condition
to
the
mining
condition,
the
amount
of
seepage
from
the
natural
ground
into
the
surficial
aquifer
was
decreased
by
more
than
fifty
percent.
That
would
be
a
loss
of
water
that
would
otherwise
perhaps
go
to
shale
Creek.
Yes,.
H
Theoretically,
what
you're
supposed
to
do
is
show
the
pre
mining
conditions,
the
mining
conditions
and
the
post
lighting
conditions
to
be
able
to
demonstrate
by
providing
reasonable
assurances
to
Swift
mud,
that
the
impact
of
your
project
is
not
going
to
have
adverse
impacts
upon
the
resources
of
the
state,
which
would
include
the
surficial
aquifer.
So.
H
It's
a
good
question
because
the
way-
and
that
will
kind
of
leads
me
into
the
host-
develop
the
post
construction
scenario,
because
when
you
look
at
what
what
was
shown
in
my
graphic
in
the
post
development
scenario,
you
now
haven't
basically
a
large
lake
with
a
greater
surface
area.
That's
available
for
evaporation
than
was
available
during
the
pre-construction
scenario
you
so
so
you
have
again
more
water
being
evaporated
from
the
reclaimed
lake
than
what
was
there
before.
H
There
was
a
lake
you
have
no
rock
or
no
water
runoff,
which
is
also
true
during
the
mining
condition,
and
that's
from
you
don't
want
the
dirty
water
from
the
mind
that
be
able
to
the
surface
waters
but
by
the
same
token,
that
results
in
perhaps
a
starving
of
the
surface
waters
that
would
otherwise
have
relied
upon
that
runoff.
In
the
pre-development
scenario,
they
attribute
300
gallons
per
day
per
acre
of
runoff.
H
That
would
have
gone
in
fed,
in
our
case,
shale
Creek
in
in
both
the
development
and
post
development
scenarios,
zero
gallons
per
acre
wood
would
be
coming
from
runoff
through
shale
Creek
and
then.
Finally,
if
you
look
at
the
amount
of
seepage
in
the
post
development
scenario,
that's
the
border.
That's
going
into
the
aquifer,
it's
it's
reduced
from
640
gallons
per
acre
in
the
pre-development
to
only
50
gallons
per
acre
in
the
post
development.
H
So
what
this
is
showing
me
is
that
these
are
impacts
that
are
not
being
reviewed
by
Charlotte
County,
nor
by
the
way
state
of
Florida,
when
they're
issuing
their
mind
on
mining
permits.
What
they
do
require,
as
I
indicated
they're
looking
at
impacts
to
weapons
and
that's
not
an
insignificant
environmental
feature
and
most
mines,
probably
don't
have
proximity
to
a
the
watershed
of
a
of
a
creek
that
is
serving
a
drinking
water
purposes.
So
most
of
them
wouldn't
be
required
to
present.
H
The
kind
of
information
that
we
need
to
have
presented
should
be
able
to
determine
that
impact,
and
so
what
they,
what
most
miners
require,
or
what
would
submit
what
most
lines
offer
to
do
and
they're
sort
of
required
to
do
is
they'll
put
monitoring
wells
in
the
ground
to
determine
what
impact
the
drawdown
is
during
their
pumping
in
the
immediate
vicinity.
But
I'll
try
to
give
this
analogy.
H
Looking
at
what
the
drawdown
is
and
how
you
can
monitor
the
drawdown
is
like
the
difference
between
going
to
the
beach
and
looking
for
evidence
of
erosion,
which
is
a
slow
and
imperceptible
process
versus
avulsion,
which
is
the
loss
of
sand
following
dorman
man.
A
swift
mud
by
putting
by
requiring
monitoring
Wells
is
essentially
looking
at
the
impact.
The
abortive
impacts,
the
sudden
impacts,
the
somewhat
imperceptible
impacts
that
will
occur
by
virtue
of
the
starving
of
the
surficial
aquifer
that
feeds
elk
week
of
the
water.
H
That's
lost
through
evaporation
is
not
easily
monitored,
and
so
there's
really
no
way
to
assure
without
having
a
pre
development
modeling
that
sufficiently
models
the
situation
and
a
post
month
at
a
post
development
modeling.
That
would
show
what
the
impacts
are
in
some
way
of
mitigating
those
impacts
so
that
shale
Creek
wouldn't
be
starved
of
the
water.
That
ordinarily
would
get
is
the
only
way
we're
going
to
be
able
to
assure
protection
of
shale
Creek.
That
is
not
being
done.
H
Currently,
we
would
not
have
any
say
in
that
process
of
issuing
permits
or
the
extension
of
these
older
permits
when,
if
the
county
amends
its
comprehensive
plan
as
its
proposed,
these
older
permits
expire
and
each
permit
has
expiration
date
for
purpose,
and
the
purpose
is
that
it's
recognized
that
over
time,
regulations
or
conditions
change,
you
don't
want
to
give
somebody
a
permit
today
and
50
years
from
now
have
that
same
permit
being
continued
with
technology
or
impacts
of
things
that
we
would
not
have
allowed
the
deers
handsome.
So.
H
H
They
think
I
did
not
see
any
indication
in
the
permit
application,
the
review
of
those
permit
applications
or
any
conditions
to
any
of
the
permits
that
were
issued
that
took
into
consideration
the
impacts
to
the
surficial
aquifer
and
the
potential
impacts
to
shale
Creek.
Now
my
experience
is
limited
with
respect
to
this
type
of
permitting
to
our
immediate
area,
the
Southwest
Florida
Water
Management
District
the
example
that
I
was
able
to
find
where
they,
the
applicant,
showed
what
the
pre-development
impacts
were
and
the
post
development
impacts
we're
not
within
our
Water
Management
District
jurisdiction.
H
B
H
H
H
H
But
it
does
not
look
at
what
the
impacts
would
be
during
the
mining
or
afterwards
to
shale
Creek
or
the
appli.
For
that
feeds.
Shale.
Creek
and
that's
that's
I
mean
it's
just
an
oversight,
I
think
in
terms
of
policy
direction
and
past
practice,
and
because
there
aren't
that
many
situations
that
are
similar
to
the
south
she'll
freak
situation
where
these
mines
are
are
constructed
and.
H
Right
yeah
again,
the
illy
phosphate
mining
permits
that
I've
very
experienced
in
because
phosphate
mining
occurs
within
water
bodies.
The
regulations
that
that
govern
the
permits
for
those
are
very
detailed
in
terms
of
having
water
balance
and
what
the
what
the
impact
of
the
mining
during
the
mining
is
going
to
be
to
the
water
sir
fishel
I
prefer
amity,
but
but
these
sand
mine
permits
are
treated
differently
and
because
they're,
not
typically
in
with
or
affecting
a
water
body,
it's
just
I
did
you
know
they
just
don't
ask
for
that
information
so.
H
C
B
C
H
No,
we
didn't
we.
Mr.
we
are
on.
We
are
on
the
record
we
from
the
very
start
I.
We
advised
the
Commission,
as
well
as
the
agencies
that
were
going
to
be
commenting
on
the
commission
that
arm
they
have
not
been
conducting
the
water
balance.
Analysis,
that's
necessary
to
protect
our
surficial
aquifer.
H
That's
feed,
she's,
feeding,
shale
Creek
and,
as
a
result,
they
shouldn't
change
the
situation
because
we
don't
know
what
those
we
don't
know
what
impacts
those
existing
mines
have
without
subjecting
them
now
to
a
process
where
they
would
have
to
amend
the
comprehensive
plan,
which
would
be
public
hearings
in
order
to
get
those
those
permits
extended
right
now,
if
the,
if
the
comp
plan
doesn't
change,
made
the
changes
the
way
they
want
it
to
change,
those
blinds
will
basically
have
a
free
ride,
as
it
relates
to
potential
impacts
to
the
surficial
aquifer.
But.
H
Were
there
we
asked
them
to
not
do
what
they
did.
We
asked
the
agencies
to
recommend
that
they
not
do
what
they
were
proposing
to
do.
We
had
a
favorable
finding
from
the
regional
planning
councils
staff
that
was
never
officially
transmitted
by
the
Regional
Planning
Commission
to
a
council
to
to
the
County
Commission
I'm,
not
sure
that
they
would
have
made
a
difference
or
not
where
we
are
now.
Is
it
but.
G
Did
not
cut
co-opted
for
a
vote,
it
went
to
Marianne
Devon
us
who's,
the
does
the
review
and
she
rented
an
opinion.
It
said
that
the
city
of
Punta
Gorda
does
not
read
and
they've
decided,
David's
letter
and
until
such
time
that
the
city
in
the
county
can
come
to
an
agreement
that
they
don't
really
want.
It
brought
back,
they
don't
they
want
it,
they
want
it
come
back
once
we've
agreed.
E
The
the
county
is
still
waiting
to
hear
from
us
what
our
revised
language
might
be.
Not
they
can
accept
it.
So
we
still
need
to
give
them
some
revised
language
to
see
if
they
would
even
adopt
the
language
they
gave
us.
We
reject
it.
Remember
that
yeah,
so
what?
If
so,
we
need
to
come
up
with
some
revised
language,
send
it
to
them.
Oh
I,.
H
Mean
they're
still
waiting.
The
the
only
revised
language
that
I
can
think
of
is
is
a
refinement
of
what
is
already
in
the
co
in
the
comprehensive
plan
that
we
want
them
to
keep,
because
you
know
if
we
make
recommendations
with
respect
to
their
ordinance
in
terms
of
what
needs
to
be
looked
at,
even
if
they
adopt
it
now
and
let
them
let
the
comprehensive
plan
amendment
go
forward
and
we
don't
challenge
the
comprehensive
plan.
H
So
so
their
amendment
becomes
effective
next
year
they
can
amend
the
mining
ordinance
to
take
out
what
we've
asked
that
they
put
in
and
then
we've
lost
the
opportunity
to
protect
ourselves
by
V.
By
virtue
of
the
comprehensive
plan,
then
so
I
mean
my
recommendation
would
be
that
they
keep
the
comprehensive
plan
language.
H
The
way
it
is
now
the
only
other
change
I
would
make
is
modify
the
comprehensive
plan
to
make
it
absolutely
clear
that
no
permit
would
be
renewed
or
extended
without
doing
a
water
balance
analysis
and
demonstrating
that
there
would
not
be
any
adverse
impact
to
the
shale
Creek
watershed,
and
if
they
can't
do
that,
then
they
don't
get
extension.
I
can
write
that
down.
If
that's
what
that's
what
would
be
acceptable,
but
that's
that's
what
we're
really
looking
for,
but
first
and
foremost,
I.
B
D
H
H
H
B
F
All
right
under
boards
and
committees,
we
have
a
couple
of
continuing
vacancies.
First
of
the
we
have
two
three-year
terms
as
alternate
members
on
the
historic
preservation
advisory
board.
We
also
have
a
three-year
term
on
the
utility
advisory
board
and
one
unexpired
term
on
the
historic
preservation
advisory
board.
That's
for
a
regular
member
been.
F
Have
not,
surprisingly,
have
not
I'm
surprised,
we
haven't
gotten
something
for
utility,
that's
usually
a
popular
board,
but
I
don't
have
anything
under
appointments.
We
have
two
four-year
terms
on
the
Punta
Gorda
Housing
Authority
voting
forms
are
being
distributed.
You're
voting
for
two
please
voting.
H
B
You
under
policy
and
legislation,
first
of
all,
I
attended
as
representative
council,
the
MPO
meeting
and
I
want
to
thank
councilmember,
Nancy
prof
gay
for
providing
information
with
regards
to
the
left
turn
at
Madrid
and
41,
and
the
issues
there
the
documentation
was
well
presented
and,
as
she
mentioned
earlier,
secretary
district
secretary
had
a
way
has
said
that
he
will
follow
up
with
it.
Initially
we
got
kind
of
a
form
letter
back
and
saying.
B
Well,
you
know
this
is
something
that
the
city
should
do
in
terms
of
doing
some
street
modification
or
traffic
calming
measures
and
said
you
know,
that's
just
unacceptable
and
I
think
he
was
kind
of
taken
aback
that
we
came
back
to
him,
but
it
was
good.
He
also
reported
the
district
secretary
had
a
way
we
reported
on
the
Complete
Streets
policy.
B
They
will
have
a
draft
plan
available
in
November
was
again
conducted
with
a
grant
from
rockefeller
foundation,
so
that
was
heaven
also
may
is,
besides
all
the
other
resolutions
and
proclamations,
we
had
it's
also
bicycle
safety
month
and
motorcycle
safety
means
so
you
need
to
be
safe.
All
around
our
streets
already
mentioned
about
the
school
board
meeting
yesterday,
so
I
think
that's
taken
care
of
and
I
think.
That's
all
I
have
Rachel
anything
sure.
C
B
J
C
He
says
he
represents
a
committee
and
this
I
just
have
very
preliminary
information,
and
it
is
in
my
district,
but
it's
not
over
by
where
I
live
so
Tom
and
Tom
you're,
probably
by
this
by
this
corner.
More
often
daily.
Probably
it's
at
the
corner
of
Bal
Harbour
and
a
Kia
saw
and
there's
a
large
white.
He
calls
it
a
monopole
and
from
what
he
told
me
is
that
initially
it
had
some
flag
attached
to
it.
Well,
the
the
way
the
flag
was
attached.
C
I
guess
it
was
noisy
and
some
residents
complained,
and
so
they
took
it
down.
But
now
he's
he's.
This
committee
is
wanting
to
get
the
flag
back
reinstalled.
I
don't
know
who
pays
for
the
flag,
who
maintains
the
flag,
what
size
of
flag
I
just
think
that
American
flag,
I'm
an
American
flag
on
this
poll
and
I
did
give
Mikhail
some
pictures
personally.
I
didn't
really
even
notice
the
pole
until
he
told
me
to
go,
look
at
it.
C
E
This
is
the
flag
which
I
think
it
is
on
the
cell
town,
yep
City
Council
years
a
number
of
years
ago
said:
no.
If
you
want
to
put
a
flag
up
there,
it
would
have
to
go
through
the
variance
process
which
we
could
initiate
ourselves.
If
you
wanted
to,
it
is
a
cell
tower,
and
but
previous
city
council
said
no,
it's.
D
E
C
L
K
L
K
L
L
Which
is
behind
fire
station
number?
Three
okay
and
it's
a
it's.
A
monopole
cellular
tower
that
AT&T,
either
UN's
or
had
built,
was
the
main
contractor
and
four
or
five
cell
companies
have
antennas
inside
the
monopole.
Okay
and
these
people
wanted
to
erect
the
putter
American
flag
on
that
on
the
pole
very.
L
E
L
110
feet
and
at
the
time
it
was
a
discussion
about
making
it
into
a
also
attaching
a
flag
to
it,
and
it
was
not
supported
at
that
time.
I
advised
them
that
if
they
wanted
to
pursue
this
again,
certainly
they
would
have
to
get
support
from
the
company
who
maintains
this
pole
or
who
owns
it
and
then
file
a
petition
for
a
variance
through
the
through
the
various
committees
and
into
the
city
council.
I
wasn't
supporting
it
or
not.
I.
Just
saying
this
is
the
process
that
you
follow
so.
L
That's
all
I
know
right:
I
have
not
been
contacted
by
these
people
again,
but
I
did
meet
with
them
about
four
or
five
of
them,
and
this
is
the
guidance
I
gave
them.
I
think
I've
spoken
with
Terry
or
an
even
Howard
about
it
as
well,
just
as
a
epted,
they
may
be
coming
back
on
this,
so
I'm
kind
of
surprised.
It
I'm
no
I'm,
not
involved
in
our
rubber
surprises.
They
contact
you
to
begin
with,
but
that's
all
I
know
and
that's
so
you
may
be.
L
J
L
K
L
M
Fabian
I
was
on
the
council,
and
that
was
approved
and
there
was
a
lot
of
concern
about
the
ugliness
of
that
and
it
would
and
they
develop,
or
the
manufacturer
agreed
that
there
would
be
no
nothing
stuck
on
the
outside.
Of
that
that
it
would
be
very
simple
and
it
would
stay
that
way,
and
that
was
the
decision
at
that
time
made
by
the
City
Council
with.
G
All
for
being
patriotic
I
love
all
the
things
that
we
do
around
here
at
because
of
it,
but
when
I
Drive
down
aqui
esta,
which
is
not
all
the
time
but
I
really
don't
notice
the
pole-
and
it
seems
like
that
was
the
objective-
was
to
make
this
just
kind
of
disappear
into
the
horizon
so
that
it
doesn't
stand
out.
I
know
with
my
own
I
pole
how
much
noise
it
that
makes
an
hour.
You
know
the
neighbors
up
and
down
the
canal
with
the
flags
that
whippin
and
even
to
be
seen.
G
A
D
B
D
I
attended
the
Rachel
joint
for
a
while
as
well
the
general
employees
pension
fund
meeting
last
week
as
well
as
I
spent
a
little
time
at
the
police
pension
board
and
I
like
to
report
to
you
that
the
pension,
the
general
employees
pension
fund,
decided
to
hire
Forester
and
Forester
to
administer
their
fund
going
forward
in
the
past
that
had
been
done
by
my
staff.
They
won
office
that
one
part
of
it
and
Heather
more
percent.
Another
part
of
it
and
I
think
that
they've
got
a
very
wise
thing
and
getting
it
all
under
one.
D
Forget
them
the
last
name
of
the
company,
but
let's
say
a
fixed,
fixed
income
that
has
typically
generated
between
six
and
seven
percent
a
year,
and
it's
significant
in
that
it's
with
the
pension
with
the
general
employees
pension
fund,
because
that
we
know
we're
going
to
be
closing
that
fun
and
they
are
going
to
overtime,
be
shifting
their
investments
from
equities
to
fixed
income.
So
it's
important
and
I
am
very
happy
that
they
did
make
that
change.
D
D
I
think
it
would
be
very
appropriate
if,
at
least
on
a
yearly
basis,
we
had
a
representative
from
Bob
and
come
and
just
give
us
an
overview
of
the
various
pension
plans,
how
they
are
stacking
up
next
to
our
peers
in
the
area,
the
the
unfunded
ratio,
unfunded
ratios
just
generally
well
how
they've
been
doing
over
the
years,
so
I
think
that
we,
if
I,
think
that's
something
where
you
want
to
implement
and
get
bogged
in
on
board
with
it
and
would
report
to
us
on
a
yearly
basis.
I'm.
E
D
C
Along
that
line,
I
mean
there
was
conversations
years
ago
to
add
the
finance
director
and
the
human
resource
officer
human
resources.
Director
to
that
board,
I
mean
I,
don't
think
it's
such
a
bad
idea.
I
know
it
caused
a
little
bit
of
controversy
in
the
past,
but
I
mean
it's
two
more
people
that
could
help
oversee.
We.
D
If
I
couldn't
we
have
over
the
past
several
years,
introduce
some
really
pretty
sharp
volunteers
entity,
pension
boards
and
from
what
I
see
they
have
thieved
they've
changed
their
asset,
investing
strategy,
every
one
of
them
has
over
the
past
three
years,
change
their
their
investment
strategies
and
they've
been
doing
quite
well.
I
wouldn't
doesn't
seem
to
be
broken
and
I
wouldn't
fix
it.
Okay,.
G
No
I
you
covered
it,
I
was
going
to
mention
the
MPO
meeting
and
where
we
were
going
with
that
I
just
I
want
to
thank
everybody
for
the
really
good
discussion
today.
Thank
you.
You
wanted.
H
I've
been
scribbling
some
language
that
would
like
to
include
in
a
letter
to
the
county,
expressing
in
that
letter
that
this
is
the
language
that
the
City
Council
has
asked
me
to
present,
provide
to
them
and
I
want
to
read
it
to
you,
so
that
if
you
have
a
problem
with
it,
you
let
me
know
rather
than
hear
it
the
other
way.
Yeah.
A
H
So
I
can
see
if
I
can
read
this,
so
we
would
recommend,
through
the
commission
that
no
new
permits
or
extensions
or
renewals
of
existing
permits
within
a
half
mile
of
shale
Creek
shall
be
renewed,
issued
or
extended
without
the
applicator
permit
T
providing
reasonable
assurance
that
the
proposed
permit
permit
renewal
or
extension
will
not
here's.
B
H
Know
a
reasonable
assurances
is
a
phrase
of
art
that
the
state
uses
for
all
of
its
permits.
I
think
there's
like
case
law,
that
sort
of
defines
what
that
is
I'm.
So
it's
not
it's
not
a
guarantee,
but
it,
but
they
have
to
provide
evidence
to
show
and
that's
going
to
require
them,
particularly
with
respect
to
the
existing
mines
to
buy
approved
scientific
means
determine
what
the
conditions
may
have
been
prior
to
development.
I.
H
G
Nancy,
but
just
when
Tom
mentioned
legislated,
it
is
prompted
my
attention.
Something
I
saw
where
the
legislation
the
next
year
that
the
legislature
is
going
to
be
in
January,
so
they're
going
to
the
pre
agenda
the
session
we
had
in
January
was
it
a
visit
December
it's
going
to
be
in
August,
yes,
so
we
will
need
to
start
working
on
our
legislative
agenda.
G
B
C
B
C
C
C
B
God
we
thank
you
very
much.
Thank
you
no
problem.
Thank
you.
Anything
else.
I
think
you
all
read
about
my
session
with
mayor's
going
global
with
the
mayor's
down
in
Fort
Myers,
which
was
a
very
interesting
interaction.
We
also
had
a
very
interesting
session
on
our
ethics
workshop
that
all
appointed
officials
must
attend
for
hours.
You
can't
do
three
hours
and
49
minutes.
It
has
to
be
four
hours
of
training
on
Epix,
so.
B
N
Sam
castronovo
2614
to
feather
sound
dr
punta
gorda.
I
just
want
to
continue
to
feel
that
voice
my
objection
to
the
arrow
plant
and
the
opinion
that
you
should
be
buying
the
water
from
Charlotte
County
you're,
going
to
have
to
build
that
line.
Anyways
I
noticed
that
I,
you
included
you
had
your
consultant
adjust
some
of
my
comments.
I,
don't
necessarily
agree
with
everything.
They
said.
They
speak
of
the
clay
layer
that
clay
layer
is
infused
with
sand.
So
there
is
a
possibility
that
the
water,
you
know
you
could
have
saltwater.
N
They
said
it's
been
proven
in
other
areas,
but
the
geology
is
not
the
same
every
place
so
just
to
say
that
there
isn't
a
problem
with
some
place
else
doesn't
necessarily
apply
here
and
they
said
the
water
is
hard.
Let
me
tell
ya,
obviously
these
people
do
not
live
in
michigan
in
michigan.
You
know,
even
though
the
water
goes
through
the
treatment
plant,
they
don't
know
what
hard
water
is
probably
about
at
the
end
of
the
week,
you
would
have
calcium
deposits
on
your
time.
N
Your
fixtures,
I
know
if
any
of
you
are
from
from
from
michigan
but
like
I
say
this-
is
that
hard
water?
We
are
actually
very
pleased.
My
wife
is
pleased
with
the
hard
water.
There
is
a
lot
of
maintenance.
You
know
to
your
toilet
bowls
and
Michigan
your
toilet
bowl
turn
gray
in
a
week.
If
you
aren't
cleaning
it
every
day
on
the
same
thing,
with
the
sink
so
and
I
just
did
a
little
computation,
and
maybe
the
people
should
have
a
say
in
what
this
is
all
about.
N
The
there
are,
if
I
found
it
correctly
online
they're
like
twelve
thousand
households
in
Punta
Gorda.
If
you
divide
that
into
28
million
dollars,
that
means
each
household
is
going
to
have
to
burden
two
thousand
three
hundred
dollars
to
support
the
sorrow
plant.
The
construction
forget
about
me,
maintaining
it
down
the
road.
N
The
other
thing
is
I,
don't
know
if
you've
been
reading
the
paper
lately,
but
there
have
been
a
couple
of
articles
concerning
our
earth
tremors
and
what
they
found
is
that
a
deep,
well
injection
into
the
rock
strata
is
increasing
the
likelihood
of
earth
tremors
to
the
point
where
I
suggest
you
go
back
and
take
a
look
at
the
two
articles
in
the
Sun,
one
was
under
20
seconds
of
April.
The
other
one
was
on
the
24th
with
deep,
well
injection
in
oklahoma.