►
From YouTube: Study Session/Planning Commission September 8, 2021
Description
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A
All
right,
hello,
commissioners,
thank
you
so
much
for
having
me
here
today.
It's
it's
a
pleasure
to
see
you
all
so.
B
Ali,
I
need
to
call
the
meeting
to
order.
Oh
please,
roll
call
before
we
start
the
presentation,
which
is
fine.
B
C
D
E
B
Very
good,
we
have
everyone
here,
we
have
one
item
and
it
is
going
to
be
presented
by
ali
from
best
basket,
krieger
for
the
sequa
requirements.
A
Thank
you,
chair
crandall
yeah,
so
I
am
here
to
speak
to
you
all
about
about
sequa,
and
you
know
today
is
just
going
to
be
a
very
broad
overview
just
so
there
may
be
things
that
you
already
know,
but
hopefully
we
can
explore
the
statue
generally
together.
A
So
as
a
general
outline,
what
we
want
to
go
over
today
is
initially
what's
the
purpose
of
sql.
Why
does
it
matter?
Why
do
we
care
about
it
and
then,
once
we
have
an
idea
of
that
an
overview
of
the
secret
process?
We
know
it
matters.
What
does
that
actually
mean?
How
does
it
play
out
in
real
life
before
cities
like
san
clemente?
When
does
sequa
apply
oftentimes,
there's
a
lot
of
misconception
about
whether
government
action
is
subject
to
zika
or
not
and
we'll
explore
circumstances.
A
You
know
government
action,
that's
not
subject
to
sql
at
all
government
action,
that's
exempt
from
sqa
and
action
that
requires
environmental
analysis
and
then
a
discussion
of
the
degree
of
environmental
analysis
needed
whether
an
initial
study,
negative
declaration
or
eir
is
required
so
as
as
an
initial
basis.
What's
the
basic
purpose
of
sequa
and
you
know
before
I
go
further,
would
it
be
appropriate
for
me
to
ask
the
commissioner's
general
familiarity
with
sequa.
G
A
G
A
With
I'm
sorry
was
that
you,
commissioner,
prescott.
A
Excellent
and
chair
vandal,
I
imagine
you're
very
familiar
with
zika
as
well.
B
A
Very
a
knowledgeable
group
of
commissioners
here:
is
there
anyone
who
is
not
as
familiar
with
sequa?
A
I
am
not
okay,
all
right,
so
we
will
we'll
start
with
the
basics
and
if
anyone
has
any
questions,
feel
free
to
ask
me
at
any
point,
I
you
know
I'd
welcome
that.
I
I'm
happy
here
to
here
to
speak,
but
I
feel
like
it
would
be
more
engaging
if
there
was
a
bit
of
a
back
and
forth
so
feel
free
to
you
know,
ask
any
questions
at
any
point.
If
you
would
like.
B
Very
good-
and
I
just
want
to
remind
you-
this
is
being
fed
to
our
facebook
channel.
So
the
public
is
watching
and
you
know
you're
going
to
have
some
people
that
don't
even
know
what
sequence
so.
Okay,.
A
All
right,
thank
you
very
much,
okay,
so
the
basic
purpose
of
sequa
is
forcing
first
and
foremost,
to
protect
the
environment.
It
is
the
california
environmental
quality
act
passed
in
1970,
born
from
the
environmental
movement
of
the
time,
and
it
it
works
to
do
to
accomplish
two
primary
purposes.
A
One
is
to
inform
the
public
of
the
environmental
impacts
of
government
decisions
to
analyze
those
impacts
and
to
mitigate
or
avoid
those
impacts
and
we'll
discuss
how
each
of
those
is
accomplished
through
sequa,
when
courts
often
discuss
sequa,
they
provide
four
basic
purposes
of
sequa.
The
first
is
to
inform
government
decision
makers
and
the
public
about
potential
significant
environmental
impacts
of
proposed
activities,
and
I
think
that
word
right
there.
Environmental
impacts
is
actually
is
very
significant
again.
A
This
is
the
environmental
quality
act
and
what
that
means
is
we're
focused
on
physical
changes
to
the
environment,
social
or
economic
impacts,
which
some
often
think
should
be
within
the
scope
of
sequa
is
actually
not
part
of
the
statute
at
all
at
all.
So
we're
really
focused
on
just
physical
changes
to
the
environment,
whether
they're,
direct
or
indirect.
A
Once
a
public
agency
identifies
how
you
know
what
the
impacts
of
a
project
or
government
action
are,
sql
requires
that
those
impacts
be
avoided
or
reduced
if,
if
feasible,
this
is
often
done
through
mitigation
measures
which
are
presented
and
I'll
get
to
these
in
a
bit
through
mitigated
negative
declarations
or
eirs
or
through
alternatives,
project
alternatives
in
an
eir.
A
And
then
finally,
sequa
is
is
not
a.
It
is
different
than
a
lot
of
the
other
environmental
statutes
that
we
have
like
the
clean
water
act
or
the
clean
air
act.
It's
not
a
permit
that
we
obtain
but
a
process
that
we
go
through,
and
so,
even
if
a
project
has
potentially
significant
and
unavoidable
environmental
impacts,
a
public
agency
can
determine
that
there
are
countervailing
measures.
A
You
know
economic
measures
or
other
public
benefits
that
can
accrue
from
a
project
that
that
such
that
the
project
can
be
approved,
despite
any
avoid
any
unavoidable
and
significant
impact.
So
it
really
is,
to
a
large
extent
a
a
process
of
disclosing
of
analyzing
and
disclosing
environmental
impacts.
A
There
are
three
primary
sources
of
law
that
govern
cqa.
The
first
is
the
statute
itself,
which
is
in
the
public
resources
code.
The
second
is
the
state
sql
guidelines,
and
this
is
really
where
a
lot
of
the
bulk,
where
sql
is
really
fleshed
out.
If
you've
ever
heard
of
categorical
exemptions,
which
are
are
really
the
most
relied
upon
exemptions
to
sequa
they're
found
in
the
state
sql
guidelines,
and
then
we
have
case
law
to
give
meaning
to
the
statute
and
the
guidelines.
A
All
right
so
we
have
squad.
We
know
that
it
generally
requires
analysis
of
environmental
impacts,
mitigation
of
those
impacts,
disclosure
of
those
impacts
to
the
public.
When
does
it
apply?
Does
it
always
apply?
What
are
the
circumstances
that
trigger
it?
And-
and
there
are
a
few
triggers
and
we'll
go
through
them
individually
here?
The
first
is
that
it
only
applies
to
public
agency
action,
so
the
the
the
ultimate
prerequisite
to
see
to
the
application
of
sequa
is
that
the
government
has
to
take
action.
It
does
not
apply
to
private
actors.
A
The
second
is
whether
the
and
whether
that
action
qualifies
as
quote
a
project
under
sequa
and
that's
a
term
of
art
under
sequa.
A
project
is
defined
as
something
that
can
potentially
have
a
potentially
change
the
physical
environment,
and
so,
if
you
have
government
action
that
doesn't
result
in
a
change
of
an
environment,
for
instance,
it
could
be
changes
to
a
salary
structure.
For
instance,
it
could
be
a
government
action,
but
with
no
impact
on
the
environment.
A
The
next
step
is
to
determine
whether
it's
exempt
from
cqa
there's
quite
a
few
exemptions
and
we'll
get
into
some
of
them
in
here
in
a
bit,
but
but
a
project
could
have
significant
environmental
impacts
and
nonetheless
be
exempt
from
sequa
if
it
falls
within
a
statutory
exemption,
a
categorical
exemption
or
another
exemption
and
and
we'll
dive
deeper
into
that
in
a
bit
as
well.
A
If
a
project's,
not
exact
so
again,
the
first
step
is
you
determine
whether
there's
government
action?
Then
you
determine
if
that
action
qualifies
as
a
project,
meaning
whether
it
could
physically
change
the
environment
then
determine
if
it's
exempt.
If
it's
not
exempt.
The
next
step,
is
a
public
agency
prepares,
what's
called
an
initial
study,
and
basically
this
examines
a
slew
of
potential
environmental
impacts
that
the
activity
could
cause
aesthetics,
wildfire
utilities,
air
quality,
greenhouse
gas
emissions.
A
There's
an
entire
list
of
impacts
that
are
analyzed
and
the
the
full
list
is
within
the
the
state,
sequel
guidelines
and,
basically
there's
a
determination
is
made
as
to
each
impact
as
to
each
resource.
Will
the
project
have
any
impact
as
to
this
resource,
a
less
than
significant
impact
less
than
a
significant
impact,
but
only
where
mitigation
is
required
or
a
significant
and
unavoidable
impact
and
based
on
that
level
of
review?
A
A
A
negative
declaration
is
appropriate
where
the
initial
study
determines
that
there
is
no
potential
for
a
significant
environmental
impact.
A
mnd
or
mitigated
negative
declaration
is
appropriate,
where
the
initial
study
determines
that
there
could
be
potentially
significant
impact,
but
there
are
mitigation
measures
that
reduce
these
impacts
to
a
sufficient
level,
and
an
eir
is
what's
prepared
when
the
initial
study
determines
that
there
will
in
fact,
be
potentially
significant
environmental
impacts.
A
A
At
the
end
of
the
day,
the
decision
maker
oftentimes,
the
planning
commission
here,
depending
on
the
approval
at
issue,
will
consider
everything
they'll.
Consider
the
initial
study
they'll.
Consider
the
environmental
document
prepared
public
comments
and,
on
the
basis
of
the
entirety
of
the
record,
decide
whether
to
approve
the
project
or
disapprove
the
project
and
to
be
clear,
the
the
sql
analysis
is
separate,
and,
apart
from
the
approval
of
the
project,
so
entirely
possible
that
you
know
the
eir
determine
the
you
know.
A
The
environmental
analysis
shows
there's
no
significant
impact
and
even
with
that,
the
planning
commission
would
remain
free
to
deny
the
deny
the
project.
And,
conversely,
if
there
is
a
significant
environmental
impact,
the
planning
commission
would
remain
free
to
approve
the
project.
A
A
Again,
it's
a
statute
that
really
promotes
public
participation,
the
public
are
engaged,
and
so
they
have
an
opportunity
to
challenge
any
secret
determination.
If
there's
a
determination
that
the
project,
the
project's
environmental
impacts,
were
not
sufficiently
analyzed,
the
public
can
can
bring
a
lawsuit
to
that
effect.
A
A
Is
there
some
action
by
a
public
agency
which
brings
the
which
brings
sequa
into
play
and
again
secret
does
not
apply
to
purely
private
activities,
so
if
a
homeowner
cuts
down
a
tree
in
a
backyard
and
that
doesn't
require
a
government
permit,
there's
no
sequa
at
issue,
because
there's
no
government
there's
no
government
activity
at
issue.
A
Similarly,
there's
a
famous
case
where
an
individual
completely
renovated
the
interior
of
a
very
historic
home.
The
public
was
very
concerned
saying
that
you
know
this
is
a
historic
resource.
It's
being
impacted,
sequa
should
be
at
issue,
and
the
court
held
that
the
interior
of
a
private
residence
is
not
part
of
the
general
environment,
and
so
secret
did
not
come
into
play
again
at
all.
Because
again,
this
was
just
private
action
by
a
private
individual,
and
without
that
public
agency
action
there
is
no
secret
trigger.
A
Again,
secret
does
apply
to
public
activities,
and-
and
this
is
a
very
broad,
broad
definition
initially
when
sql
was
enacted,
it
was
conceived
that
secret
would
would
apply
only
to
the
public
agency's
decisions
and
very
early
on
forza
courts,
really
expanded
that
to
say
anytime.
There's
any
government
involvement
in
any
prop
project,
square
review
or
sql
analysis
is
necessary,
so
that
could
be
when
a
permit
is
issued
for
a
private
development.
A
When
is
it
when
there's
a
zone
change
when
a
contract
is
entered
into
or
when
the
public
agency
you
know,
constructs
a
project
in
and
of
itself,
whether
it's
a
structure
or
an
infrastructure
improvement?
Anything
that
really
requires
government
approval
or
involvement
brings
that
activity
within
the
realm
of
sequel.
A
So,
as
an
initial
step,
again,
you
have
this
idea
of
there's
government
action.
The
next
question
is:
is
it
a
project
and
there's
three
tests?
Three
steps
to
determine
whether
public
agency
action
qualifies
as
a
project
subject
to
sequa?
The
first
is:
is
it
a
discretionary
act?
That
means
does
the
public
agency
have
any?
Does
it
exercise
any
judgments
in
approving
or
denying
a
a
permit,
for
instance,
in
any
activity
or,
alternatively,
is
it
ministerial?
A
The
idea
is:
are
there
objective
standards
where
any
time
those
objective
standards
are
met,
the
approval
must
be
issued,
in
which
case
it
would
be
ministerial
and
not
subject
to
sequa,
or
is
it
a
discretionary
act
where
really,
the
public
agency
does
have
authority
to
shape
the
project
to
respond
to
environmental
concerns?
And
if
that's
the
case,
if
the
public
agency
does
have
that
discretion,
then
the
first
step
of
whether
that
activity
is
a
project
subject
to
sequa
is
met.
The
second
we've
already
been
gone
over.
It
has
to
be
by
a
public
agency.
A
Again,
private
action
does
not
qualify
as
action
subject
to
sequa
and
the
third
again
is:
does
it
have
potential
to
result
in
a
direct
or
reasonably
foreseeable,
indirect
physical
change
in
the
environment?
So
a
direct
impact,
for
instance,
could
be
you
know,
approving
the
construction
of
a
school
and
an
indirect
a
reasonably
foreseeable.
Indirect
impact
could
be,
for
instance,
a
zone
change
which,
in
and
of
itself
doesn't
have
any
physical
impacts.
It's
just
the
paper
change,
but
it's
going
to
indirectly
result
in
physical
changes
as
a
result,
all
right.
A
So
we
have
now
the
public
agency
having
taken
action
and
and
we've
determined
that
that
action
does
qualify
as
a
project.
At
this
point,
there's
still
a
few
steps
to
determine
before
we
determine
whether
an
eir,
for
instance,
is
necessary
and
that's
the
question
of
whether
a
project
is
exempt
from
cq.
A
Now
there
are
three
types
of
exemptions:
again,
these
are
stats,
there's,
first
statutory
exemptions,
and
these
are
the
broadest
or
most
absolute
exemptions
possible.
So
there
are
statutory
exemptions
apply
where
no
matter,
what
conceivable
environmental
impacts
a
project
might
have.
The
legislature
has
determined
that,
as
a
matter
of
law,
they
are
not
subject
to
sequence,
so
the
environmental
impacts
of
statutorily
exempt
projects
are
effectively
irrelevant.
A
They
are
exempt
from
sequa
and
the
legislature
has
determined
them
to
be
so
then
we
have
a
the
most
common
form
of
exemption
commonly
used
exemption,
which
are
called
categorical
exceptions.
We'll
go
over
a
few
examples
of
each
of
these
in
a
minute,
but
these
are
what
the
defining
feature
of
these
is
that
they
are.
A
They
are
subject
to
exceptions,
so,
whereas
a
statutory
exemption
applies
regardless
of
the
environmental
impact,
there's
six
or
seven
exceptions
that
apply
to
categorical
exemptions,
most
notably
whether
a
project
that
that
would
otherwise
be
categorically
exempt
could
result
in
a
significant
environmental
impact
due
to
unusual
circumstances,
and
it's
that
unusual
circumstances
there
that
really,
that
really
becomes
the
focus
and
finally
there's
the
common
sense
exemption-
and
this
is
this-
is
an
exemption
that
applies
basically
when
it
just
makes
sense
that
the
project
would
not
result
in
environmental
impact.
A
Sometimes
you
have
something
that
looks
like
it.
It
could
be
a
project,
it
could
have
some
impact
on
the
environment,
but
it's
just
clear
that
it
could
never
have
a
significant
environmental
impact
and
in
those
cases
the
common
sense
exemption
could
apply
as
now
in
making
these
exemption
determinations
one.
The
key
feature
to
take
into
account
is
whether
the
exemption
determination
is
supported
by
substantial
evidence.
A
That
means
you
know.
Is
this
an
exemption?
You
know?
Is
there
any
reasoning
for
the
exemption
that's
presented
to
you
as
planning
commissioners?
Is
it
you
know?
For
instance,
if
there's
a
you
know
as
we
get
into
some
examples,
I
think
this
will
make
more
sense,
but
the
idea
is
that
you
can't,
as
a
conclusion,
just
say:
something
is
exempt.
There
must
be
facts
that
really
show
why
the
activity
falls
within
the
exemption
that
is
being
claimed.
A
So
to
give
there
are
many
statutory
exceptions.
A
There
are
dozens
and
dozens
of
statutory
exemptions,
but
to
give
just
a
couple
of
examples
here,
one
of
the
most
common
relates
to
emergency
procedures,
for
instance,
if
there's
emergency
repairs
needed
to
public
service
facilities
that
are
needed
to
maintain
essential
services
again,
even
if
that,
even
if
such
a
project
would
result
in
significant
environmental
impacts,
if
it
falls
within
the
exemption,
it
is,
it
is
exempt
from
sql
and
there
are-
and
there
are
a
few
other-
and
there
are
many
other
examples
we
striving
streets
or
highways
to
relieve
congestion
being
another
one
again,
the
the
most
commonly
used
exemptions.
A
A
The
class
1
exemption
relates
to
existing
facilities,
so,
for
instance,
if
if,
if
there's
an
existing
structure
and
the
the
request
is
for
a
permit
to
just
have
minor
alterations
to
that
structure,
that
would
be
a
categorically
exempt
project
as
long
as
there's
no
there's
negligible
or
no
expansion
of
the
existing
use
or
former
use
of
that
structure,
and
there
could
be
very,
there
could
be
very
actually
broad
implications
to
this
existing
facility's
exemption.
So,
for
example,
it
also
relates
to
the
operation
of
projects.
A
There
was
a
recent
case
where
the
project
at
issue
was
the
renewal
of
a
lease
for
a
nuclear
power
plant,
and
you
know-
and
you
had
people
who
said
that
the
operation
of
a
nuclear
power
plant
is
a
impact
that
could
have
an
a
activity
that
could
have
an
impact
on
the
environment.
It
should
be
subject
to
sequa.
The
court
came
down
and
said:
look
the
nuclear
power
plant
is
an
existing
facility.
A
The
renewal
of
the
lease
is
governed
falls
within
the
class,
one
exemption,
which
applies
to
the
leasing
of
existing
structures,
and
so
even
even
a
relatively
large
project,
such
as
the
renewal
of
a
lease
for
a
nuclear
power
plant,
could
be
subject
to
this
class.
One
exemption.
A
It
applies
to
infill
development
and
there
are
five
five
criteria
that
need
to
be
met
for
infeld
infill
development
to
fall
within
this
exemption
has
to
be
consistent
with
the
general
plan,
and
zoning
has
to
be
on
a
small
part
or
a
relatively
small
parcel.
A
No
more
than
five
acres
has
to
be
surrounded
by
urban
uses,
can't
have
value
as
habitat
for
sensitive
species,
but,
most
importantly,
and
very
significantly,
there
needs
to
be
environmental
analysis
for
traffic
noise,
air
quality
and
water
quality,
so,
unlike
other
categorical
exemptions,
which
could
potentially
have
a
significant
noise
impact
and
still
be
exempt
here,
the
set
of
the
exemption
requires
analysis
of
these
factors
and
a
determination
by
the
planning,
commission
or
the
city
council
that
the
project
will
not
have
any
of
these
impacts
for
the
exemption
to
apply
and
generally
a
there
will
be
technical
studies,
provided
that
will
support
this
exemption.
A
So
again,
it
goes
to
the
idea
of
substantial
evidence.
A
person,
a
developer,
can't
come,
for
instance,
and
simply
say
the
class
32
exemption
applies.
There
needs
to
be
evidence
to
show
that
there's
no
impact
to
traffic
noise,
air
quality
and
water
quality,
and
and
also
evidence
showing
that
the
other
criteria
of
the
exemption
are
met
and,
finally,
there's
the
common
sense
exemption
where
which
applies
only
where
it
can
be
seen
with
certainty
that
there
is
no
possibility
that
the
activity
in
question
could
have
a
significant
effect
on
the
environment.
A
A
A
There
are
a
few
places
where
you
can
ensure
that
substantial
evidence
is
included
in
the
record
to
support
your
opinion
to
support
a
decision
and
that's
in
the
notice
of
exemption,
which
is
filed
immediately
after
a
project
is
approved
and
determined
exempt
from
sequa,
and
what
the
notice
of
exemption
does
two
things.
It
provides
notice
to
the
public
that
the
the
city
has
determined
a
project
is
exempt
from
sequa
and
it
also
triggers
a
35-day
statute
of
limitation.
A
Of
course,
the
staff
report
will
often
be
a
source
of
substantial
evidence
and
will
detail
why
a
project
falls
within
the
exemption
and
where
resolutions
where
resolution
is
necessary,
the
findings
in
the
resolution
will
often
also
detail
some
of
the
substantial
evidence
or
sites
to
the
substantial
evidence
that
supports
the
exemption
determination
all
right.
So
we're
at
a
point
where
we
determine
that
the
project
it.
You
know
that
we
have
the
public
agency
action
that
action
qualifies
as
a
project.
A
The
way
we
do.
That
typically,
is
through,
what's
called
an
initial
study,
and
this
is
a
study
that
that
basically
goes
through
a
checklist
of
over
a
dozen
resources,
again:
aesthetics,
biol,
biological
resources,
tribal
cultural
resources,
cultural
resources,
impact
on
utilities,
impacts
on
recreation,
there's
a
whole
host
of
resources
and
it
analyzes
whether
the
project
will
have
a
less
than
significant
significant
with
less
than
significant
with
mitigation
or
a
potentially
significant
and
unavoidable
impact,
and
the
way
it
determines
that
is
often
through
through
thresholds
of
significance.
A
So,
for
instance,
if
you
know
where,
if
the
project
concerns
a
new
industrial
facility-
and
the
question
is
whether
the
operation
of
that
facility
would
have
a
significant
noise
impact
there's,
there
are
typically
numbers
absolute
numbers.
So
a
quantitative
threshold
of
significance
and
the
environmental
document
will
analyze
whether
this
project
will
exceed
that
threshold.
A
Then
that,
then,
that
determination
is
documented
and
those
determinations
really
govern
what
environmental
document
to
prepare?
Whether
you
prepare,
whether
a
negative
declaration
is
prepared,
where
again
the
which
is
prepared,
when
all
impacts
are
less
than
significant,
mitigated
negative
declaration
where
mitigation
is
required
to
ensure
that
all
impacts
are
mitigated
to
less
than
significant
and
an
eir
which
is
necessary
anytime.
A
So
again,
the
negative
declaration
applies
when
there's
no
substantial
evidence,
meaning
there
are
no
facts.
No
expert
opinion
based
on
facts
in
light
of
the
whole
record
before
the
city
that
the
project
could
potentially
have
a
significant
effect
on
the
environment.
A
A
A
Now,
within
m
d,
again
you
have
these
mitigation
measures
that
can
reduce
impacts
to
a
level
of
less
than
significance
so
again
taking
noise
and
example
that
could
be
a
a
barrier,
a
wall
constructed
to
ensure
that
any
surrounding
residences
would
not
be
adversely
impacted
by
the
project
and
for
every
single
one
of
these
resources.
There
are
mitigation
measures
that
could
conceivably
be
possible.
A
We
just
need,
but
it
is
important
from
a
legal
perspective
that
they
be
feasible
and
enforceable
ali.
Can
I
ask
you
a
question?
Yes,
absolutely
scott
chairman
mccann.
H
What
about
I'm,
not
chairman,
but
that's.
H
Great
what
about
like,
if
you
pay
into
a
fund?
Let's
say
you
have
some
mitigation
fees,
because
I've
heard
this
and
it
doesn't
make
a
lot
of
sense
to
me.
Let's
say
you
have
a
traffic
fair
share
fee
to
pay
and
you
you
pay.
Your
fair
share
is
that
is
that
considered
to
be
appropriate
for
mitigating
your
impact.
A
Yeah,
so
that's
often
yeah
exactly
that,
so
that
would
that
is
often
a
kind
of
mitigation
measure
that
is
proposed
in
mnd
or
an
eir
that
is
and
there's
a
variety
of
circumstances
in
which
that
could
apply
so,
for
instance,
with
biological
resources,
sometimes
a
sometimes
the
mitigation
measure
is
to
pay
into
a
fund
that
would
go
towards
conservation
of
areas
outside
of
the
project
site
with
schools.
A
Development
impact
fees
are
considered
by
law
all
the
mitigation
that
is
required
for
any
increase
in
enrollment
in
schools
with
vmt
some
city,
I'm
sorry
with
transportation.
A
There
are
mitigation
banks
that
are
being
developed
to
mitigate
impacts
that
could
result
from
transportation.
So
to
your
point,
absolutely
that
is,
that
is
a
form
of
mitigation
that
is
often
used.
H
H
That
traffic,
you
know
some
various
improvements
that
are
on
a
list
somewhere
to
to
get
built
out
of
pots
of
money
that
are
accumulated
by
the
payment
of
traffic
fees.
If
those
improvements,
never
in
fact
get
built,
then
you
never
really
mitigated
anything.
Have
you
ever
heard
of
that
legal
argument
and
what
do
you
think
of
it.
A
You
know
I
and
I'm
sorry
is
the
legal
argument
that
that
mitigation
measure
would
necessarily
be
inadequate,
because,
eventually
in
the
future,
that
that
improvement
might
not
be
built.
A
So
I
you
know,
and
again
this
isn't
speaking
on
any
specific
case,
but
there
you
know
from
a
practical
perspective.
I
don't
think
that
could
so
one?
No.
I
don't
think
that
I
don't
think
that
argument
would
prevail.
I
I
don't
think
that
that
mitigation
measure
would
be
found
inadequate
for
a
couple
reasons,
one
because
I
think
the
courts
have
found
these
kinds
of
mitigation
measures
to
be
appropriate
and,
second,
from
a
practical
perspective,
there's
a
35-day
statute
of
limitations
or
a
30-day
statute
of
limitations.
A
If
a
negative
declaration
or
eir
is
prepared,
and
so
someone
would
only
have
30
days
to
bring
a
lawsuit
in
which
time
you
know,
you
couldn't
reasonably
say
that
you
know
because
you
you
didn't
this,
this
improvement
wasn't
constructed
within
30
days.
The
eir
is
inadequate,
but
to
the
point
I
had
made
earlier
about
mitigation
measures
need
to
be
enforceable.
A
That
does
go
to
your
point,
so
someone
could
come
and
say.
Listen!
You
have
this.
You
know
there's
this
development
impact
fee
thing,
but
if
there's
no
chance
the
way
it's
structured
there's
absolutely
no
way
it
could
conceivably
result
in
any
and
any
actual
construction.
A
Then
that's
a
feasibility
and
enforceability
issue
and
someone
could
come
within
that
30
days
and
conceivably
say
that
this
isn't
feasible
or
import
enforceable
mitigation.
But
but
it's
a
very
hypothetical
situation.
H
A
Yeah
and
it's
very
site-specific
again,
it's
very
fact-specific.
It
depends
on
it
goes
to
enforceability
and
it
goes
to
the
specifics
of
each
thing.
So,
as
a
matter
of
law,
not
every
development
impact
fee
is
going
to
be
adequate,
but
courts
have
often
found
many
of
them
to
be
adequate
again.
It's
very
fact
specific.
F
Excuse
me,
ali.
Can
I
ask
just
a
follow-up
question
on
that:
a
specific
instance
that
I'm
aware
of
I
don't
name
any
city
or
anything,
but
there
was
a
project
where
those
kinds
of
fees
were
imposed
for
street
improvement.
Work
widening
of
a
street
that
was
used
to
access
the
project
and
directly
adjacent
to
the
project
was
literally
a
mountain
that
would
have
to
be
cut
down
in
order
to
do
the
street
widening
that
the
city
was
proposing.
A
A
So
and
again
again,
everything
is
very
fact
specific.
So
I
don't
want
to
speak
about
very
specific
issues,
but
this
does
go
to
the
definition
of
a
project
and
a
project
which
is
what
the
sql
analysis
needs
to
review
applies
to
what's
called
the
whole
of
the
project,
and
so
courts
are
really
clear
on
this.
It's
not
you
know,
for
instance,
if
you
have
a
project
that
requires
17
approvals,
the
environmental
review
isn't
limited
to
the
first
approval
that
may
be
before
you.
A
A
Okay,
so
go
moving
along
and
I
I
I'm
also
factoring
in
some
time
at
the
end
as
well,
and
I'd
be
happy
to
you
know,
to
to
address
any
other
questions
so
again,
negative
declaration
or
mnd
appropriate.
A
Only
where
there's
no
there's
no
fair
argument
that
the
proposed
project
might
have
a
significant
impact
on
the
environment,
and
that
means
that
if
there
is
substantive,
even
if
there's
conflicting
opinion
on
whether
there's
going
to
be
a
if
there's
a
conflicting
opinion
on
whether
there's
going
to
be
a
significant
impact
on
the
environment,
then
an
mnd
or
nd
would
not
be
appropriate.
Because
then
there's
a
fair
argument
that
there
could
be
a
significant
impact.
Even
if
there's
contradicting
evidence
suggesting
that
there
isn't
a
potentially
significant
impact.
A
Okay,
in
contrast,
an
eir
is
required
when
you
know
it's
the
flip
side
of
that
coin.
Again,
you,
if
you
have,
if
you
have
any
substantial
evidence
again,
that
means
facts
or
expert
opinion
supported
by
facts
that
show
that
the
project
could
have
a
significant
effect
on
the
environment.
At
that
point,
an
eir
is
needs
should
be
prepared
if
it's
not
exempt
and
it
does
qualify
as
a
project.
A
So
again
this
eir,
it's
generally
a
much
more
complex
document
than
a
negative
declaration
or
an
mnd.
They're
often
you
know
you
know
well
in
excess
of
100
pages
analyzing.
The
various
impacts
that
a
project
could
have-
and
they
are
I
mean
both
mnds
and
eirs-
are-
are
circulated
to
the
public
for
a
public
review.
Mnd
is
typically
circulated
for
20
to
30
days
and
an
eir
between
30
and
45
days
and
and
during
this
time,
the
public,
as
well
as
responsible
agencies.
A
So
if
there
are
other
agencies
outside
of
the
city
that
need
to
issue
approvals
for
the
project,
they,
along
with
the
public,
would
review
the
projects
during.
We
would
review
the
eir
or
the
environmental
document
during
this
time
and
and
they'll
submit
comments
on
it.
A
They'll
say
you
know:
additional
analysis
needs
to
be
necessary,
for
instance,
as
to
this
resource,
or
you
know
they
might,
they
may
propose
additional
mitigation
measures
in
general,
they'll,
say
they'll
provide
their
thoughts
on
the
eir
and
then
the
city
will,
after
the
public
review
period,
respond
to
each
comment.
A
So
one
of
the
things
to
keep
in
mind-
and
this
is
the
importance
of
getting
the
eir-
you
know.
E
A
A
very
robust,
eir,
initially
or
mnd
initially,
is
that
if
the
public
reviews
the
document
and
unveils
various
deficiencies
in
the
document
and
the
document
needs
to
be
significantly
revised
in
response
to
those
comments
that
will
result
in
a
recirculation
that
will
require
a
recirculation
of
the
mnd
or
the
eir
and
significant
new
information
is
generally
defined
as
as
basically
signific,
substantial
evidence
of
a
new
impact
or
or
substantial
evidence
of
a
mitigation
measure
that
was
previously
ruled
deemed
to
be
not
feasible.
A
A
And
so,
when
that
happens
again,
the
the
eir
or
m
d
will
be
re-circulated
to
the
public.
The
public
will
again
have
an
opportunity
to
review
the
the
documents
and,
and
again
the
lead
agency
here
in
the
city
would
would
respond
to
each
of
those
documents.
A
Finally,
the
eir
comes
before
the
planning
commission
or
the
the
city
council,
depending
on
the
approval
at
issue,
and
here
again
the
the
city
has
a
determination
to
make,
and
there
are
two
different
sets
or
there
are
different
sets
of
determinations.
A
There's
a
secret
determination
to
be
made
and
that's
whether
the
project
is
either
exempt
from
sqa
or
whether
a
negative
declaration
or
eir
is
appropriate
and
then
separate,
and
apart
from
the
compliance
with
sequa,
there
is
a
a
determination
to
be
made
whether
the
the
city
will
approve
this
project,
whether
it
will
issue
the
permit
or
the
entitlement
at
issue
and
again,
those
two
things
are
actually
are
not
tied
necessarily
together.
So
a
a
a
negative
declaration.
A
The
city
may
very
well
find
a
negative
declaration
appropriate,
but
still
has
authority
or
discretion,
meaning
the
city
could
determine
that.
There
is
no
significant
environmental
impact,
but
still
has
the
discretion
to
deny
the
project
and,
alternatively,
as
we'll
get
to
an
eir,
might
disclose
significant
and
unavoidable
impacts
and
with
a
statement
of
overriding
considerations,
the
city
could
proceed
to
approve
the
project
in
each
case,
regardless
of
what
the
determination
is
by
the
city.
Again,
the
key
is
to
ensure
that
the
determination
is
supported
by
substantial
evidence
in
the
exemption
context.
A
This
is
most
prevalent.
You
know
it
applies
to
all
of
the
exemptions,
but
it's
most
true
in
the
infill
exemption
context,
because
again
there
you
do
have
very
specific
impact,
related
findings
as
to
noise
and
air
quality
and
water
quality
and
so
forth.
But
again
generally,
the
idea
is
you
want
evidence
to
show
that
the
project
actually
is
exempt
with
the
negative
declaration,
the
planning
commission,
or
the
city
generally,
will
always
have
to
determine
it
will
have
to
make
it
secret
determination
before
project
approval.
So
the
way
it
would
work
is
sequentially.
A
Is
a
city
adopts
a
negative
declaration
or
mitigated
negative
declaration
before
the
approval
and
then
with
the
approval
it
would
adopt?
What's
called
the
mitigation
monitoring
and
reporting
plan,
and
this
is
what
gives
enforceability
to
the
mitigation
measure?
Basically,
it's
a
list
of
all
of
the
mitigation
measures
that
are
that
are
required
to
ensure
that
all
impacts
are
reduced
to
a
level
of
less
than
significant,
and
it
effectively
requires
that
the
mitigation
measures
be
imposed
and
implemented.
A
So
when
you
have
an
mnd
that
mitigation
monitoring
and
reporting
plan
will
also
need
to
be
approved,
and
then,
after
the
adoption
of
the
of
the
negative
declaration
and
the
adoption
of
the
mmrp,
if
necessary,
a
notice
of
determination
is
filed
after
approval
and
and
that
notice
of
determination.
Again
does
two
things.
It
gives
notice
to
the
public
that
the
city
has
made
this
determination
and
it
triggers
a
30-day
statute
of
limitations
for
the
public
to
challenge
the
to
challenge
the
compliance
with
zika
in
the
eir
context.
A
A
again,
the
eir
is
first
certified
by
the
public
agency.
So
that
means
again,
the
public
agency
determines
that
the
eir
does
adequately
disclose
all
of
the
environmental
impacts
and
does
mitigate
all
impact.
All
potentially
significant
impacts
to
the
extent
possible
and
eir
is
different
from
an
m
d
and
again
an
eir,
unlike
a
negative
declaration,
can
conclude
that
the
project
will
result
in
significant
and
unavoidable
impacts.
A
If
that
is
the
case
again,
there's
a
decision
before
the
city
of
you
know
of
whether
to
approve
the
project
it
can
approve
the
project
but
must
adopt.
What's
called
the
statement
of
overwriting
considerations,
effectively
saying
there
are
other
considerations
at
issue
that
that
warrant
approval
of
the
project,
notwithstanding
the
significant
and
unavoidable
impacts
and
again
just
with
the
just
as
with
the
negative
declaration,
a
notice
of
determination
is
filed
after
project
approval
to
again
give
notice
of
the
public
of
the
city's
decision.
A
You
know,
if
there's
a
statement
of
overriding
considerations
adopted.
It
will
give
notice
to
the
public
of
that
as
well
and
again,
like
with
the
mnd.
It
triggers
a
30-day
statute
of
limitations.
A
Okay,
excellent:
I
am
exactly
on
pace
here
and
with
that
I'd
love
to
entertain
any
questions
that
you
may
have
regarding
sequa,
although,
if
it
relates
to
specific,
you
know
specific
questions,
you
know
again,
it
is
going
to
be
very
sites
very
back
specific
in
each
instance,
but
to
the
extent
I
can,
I
will
try
to
answer
your
questions.
B
Thank
you
very
much
ali.
I
I
would
like
one
quick
question
and
include
adam
in
this
one
when
we
receive
our
staff
reports
that
have
made
a
determination
and
a
recommendation
on
sql
compliance.
B
Has
that
been
reviewed
by
city
attorneys?
No,
I
don't
know
if
not,
when
would
it
be.
A
I
can
tell
you
it
is,
I
think
it
is
often
reviewed
by
city
attorneys.
I
I
know
that
I
personally
don't
I
personally,
as
ali
tahrani,
do
not
personally
review
each
one
we
but
but
yeah.
I
review
them
every
single
day,
so
I
don't
want
to
make
a
categorical
statement,
but
those
are
often
you
know.
I
can
tell
you
that
every
single
day
we
are
reviewing
those
determinations.
B
Okay,
adam,
do
you
have
any
input
on
that
of
when
staff
would
require
or
request
legal
advice
before
they
send
it
to
the
planning
commission.
C
Yes,
chair
crandall,
the
deputy
city
attorney
mal
richardson
reviews
our
resolutions
that
go
before
the
planning
commission.
So
as
part
of
that
review,
he
would
he
would
be
reviewing
the
secret
determination
as
well.
Some
projects
will
require
some
additional
sql
review
by
other
bbk
attorneys,
but
the
actions
before
the
the
planning
commission
are
are
typically
reviewed
by
the
by
our
legal
counsel.
E
A
No,
if,
if
a
project
is
ministerial,
it
is
not
subject
to
sql
yeah,
but
exactly
to
your
point,
a
lot
of
times,
the
legislature
rather
than
creating
a
statutory
exemption,
will
simply
declare
a
project
to
be
ministerial
in
nature
and
that
will
have
the
effect
of
exempting
the
project
from
sequa
and
that's
often
even
called
the
statutory
exemption.
Even
though
technically
it's
not
a
pr
it.
A
It's
not
a
project
because
it's
ministerial
rather
than
an
exemption,
but
this
has
really
been
arising
recently
in
the
housing
context
where
to
to
incentivize
housing.
The
legislature
has
provided
incentives
in
the
affordable
housing
context
to
say
that
certain
decisions
are
are
ministerial
and
not
subject
to
secret.
H
A
If
the,
if
the
final
decision-making
authority
is
the
planning
commission,
the
planning
commission
can
adopt
the
statement
of
overriding
considerations
and
then
that
could
be
appealed
to
the
city
council.
H
Thank
you
and
then
the
state
you
know
they're
they're,
trying
to
make
housing
projects
more
approvable
and
yet
they're.
You
know
so
many
of
them,
especially
now
with
vmt
requirements
or
having
to
go
the
full
eir
route.
Is
there
any
effort?
Do
you
know
to
try
and
make
residential
projects
more
exempt
or
get
through
the
process
easier.
A
You
know,
I
don't
know
any,
I
don't
know
of
any
specific
efforts
under
or
actually
I
think,
sb9
and
sb10
if
you're
familiar
with
them
are,
I
believe,
are
trying
to
do
that
right
now.
What
I
can
tell
you
is
that,
on
the
exemption
front,
I
think
the
the
area
in
which
the
legislature
is
most
active
in
sequa
on
a
year-to-year
basis
relates
to
affordable
housing,
and
so
it's
seemingly
every
year
there
are
there's
new
legislation
passed
that
at
least
incrementally
attempts
to
make
affordable
housing,
more
accessible
and
more
streamlined.
A
So
you
know
I
don't
know
if
they're
I'm
not
aware
of
any
beyond
sb9
and
sb10,
not
aware
of
any
other
efforts,
but
it
wouldn't
surprise
me
if,
if,
if
it
continues,
if
that
trend
continues.
H
A
Yeah
with
vmt,
and
and
thank
you
for
raising
that
issue
so
again,
an
eir
and
mnd
are
required
to
to
review
a
whole
host
of
resources.
One
of
them
is
transportation
very
recently
in
december
of
I
believe,
2018
or
maybe
even
2019
the
measure
of
how
transportation
impacts
is
you
know
the
measure
of
transportation
impacts
was
changed
from
level
of
service
which
is
effectively
traffic,
as
we
know
it
to
vmt,
and
so
what
that
means
is
as
a
result
of
this
change.
A
But
if
a
if
a
project
results
in,
what's
called
an
increase
of
bmt
or
vehicle
miles,
traveled
that
and
their
varying
thresholds
relating
to
that
issue,
but
the
most
common
of
which
I
believe
is
15
baseline
condition.
So,
basically,
if
you're,
not
if
a
project
isn't
reducing
vmt,
that
will
often
result
in
a
or
that
could
result
in
a
significant
environmental
impact
as
to
transportation
and
the
reason
why
the
legislature
adopt
made
that
that
switch
is
effectively
to,
or
one
of
the
reasons
is,
to
promote
greater
infill
development.
A
So
the
idea
is,
if
you
are,
if
you
are
building,
if
you
are
constructing
development,
apart
from
where
the
existing
density
of
people
are
that's
going
to
result
in
greater
greenhouse
gas
emissions,
because
cars
are
going
to
have
to
drive
a
greater
distance,
you
know
to
get
to
where
everything
is,
and
so
the
idea
was
having
this
vmt
requirement
would
incentivize
developers,
in
theory
to
to
focus
on
increased
infill
development
with
mixed
uses
and
other
things
that
would
really
bring
people
and
jobs
in
closer
proximity.
H
Right,
thank
you.
So
I
just
want
to
point
out
to
my
fellow
commissioners
that
a
city
like
san
clemente
is
severely
handicapped
in
this
front,
because
you
know
if
we
have
people
that
are
commuting
to
work,
they
have
to
commute
a
greater
distance
than
let's
say
the
county
average,
and
so
then
it
gets
we
get
punished
excessively,
as
opposed
to
say
santa
ana
or
anaheim.
B
Very
good,
thank
you
very
much.
Thank
you
very
much
ali.
Let's
go
ahead
and
recess
and
reconvene
at
seven
o'clock,
very
good
presentation
ali.
Thank
you
very
much,
thank
you,
and
so
we
have
about
five
minutes.
Four
to
five
minutes
before
we
we'll
reconvene.
B
Okay,
it
is
seven
o'clock.
Do
we
have
all
our
commissioners
at
their
desks.
B
Commissioner
tyler's
with
us,
commissioner
prescott:
are
you
there.
E
B
B
Okay,
let's
call
to
order
the
regular
meeting
of
the
planning
commission
for
the
city
of
san
clemente
california,
wednesday
september
8th
meeting.
E
B
Okay,
would
anyone
like
to
volunteer
to
do
the
pledge
of
allegiance?
If
not,
I
will
do
it.
H
B
Thank
you,
commissioner,
mccann
for
stepping
up
on
that.
The
next
item
would
be
special
orders
of
business
and
presentation.
We
have
none.
We
have
two
sets
of
minutes
to
approve.
First
is
the
minutes
from
the
regular
study
session
meeting
of
august
18
2021.
Do
we
have
either
a
motion
with
revisions
or
emotion,.
B
Let's
see
we
had,
commissioner
prescott
made
the
motion
at
the
second,
the
captain,
mccarthy,
very
good.
We
will
do
a
low
roll
call
vote.
Commissioner
mccacken,
thank
you,
commissioner.
Camp
hi,
commissioner
mccann
aye,
commissioner
cosgrove
hi,
commissioner
tyler.
B
Very
good
commissioner
prescott,
yes
and
commissioner
crandall
is
a
yes,
so
we
have
a
601
vote
with
commissioner
tyler
abstaining.
The
next
one
is
minutes
from
the
regular
planning
commission
meeting
of
august
18
2021..
B
Second,
second,
by
mccann
we'll
call
vote.
Commissioner
mcconkin.
I
commissioner
camp
right,
commissioner
mccann
aye
commissioner
cosgrove
aye,
mr
tyler.
I'm
abstaining
commissioner
prescott.
E
C
It
comes
from
mark
and
city
of
residence
is
left
unanswered,
says
I
fully
support
the
development
of
a
pump
track
and
dirt
jump
area
on
the
vacant
land
next
to
the
san
clemente
skate
park
and
san
clemente
single
track.
This
is
an
excellent
way
to
get
people
outside
and
exercising
and
will
be
of
great
benefit
to
the
community.
I
have
seen
the
positive
impact
that
pump
tracks
have
had
in
cities
like
truckee
and
boulder
colorado.
B
C
Just
as
a
matter
of
procedure,
if
there
are
questions,
the
commission
should
pull
these
items
out
of
the
consent
calendar,
otherwise
the
most
proper
to
simply
take
a
vote
to
approve
the
consent.
Calendar.
B
E
B
E
Pull
item
b
and
is
that
on
the
deposit
is
that,
with
the
bike
lane
restriping.
I
B
E
B
And
commissioner
crandall
is
an
eye
also
passing
seven
zero.
Our
next
item
is
public
hearing
and
we
have
none
under
new
business.
We
have
one
item:
camino,
padres
striping,
and
would
commissioner
or
mr
fairbair
want
to
make
a
presentation
on
that.
C
Sure
crandall,
if
I
could
just
so
the
committee,
is
aware
of
the
council.
Excuse
me
the
commission's
aware
we
do
have
eight
written
communications
on
this
item.
C
The
first
is
anonymous,
but
they
are
a
resident
of
san
clemente.
We
are
very
opposed
to
having
bike
lanes
placed
on
camino
la
pedreza,
as
it
poses
a
serious
hazard
to
the
cyclists,
as
well
as
all
the
residents
that
enter
and
exit
from
padresa
drivers
along
padresa
are
typically
going
too
fast,
which
already
makes
it
unsafe
for
those
of
us
driving
in
and
out
of
streets
along
patriza.
C
C
What
should
be
done
at
painting
bright,
yellow
orange?
Oh
excuse
me.
I
believe
what
they're
trying
to
say
is
what
should
be
done
is
painting
bright,
yellow
orange
speed,
bumps,
which
will
appear
to
be
actual
bumps,
but
are
not.
We
have
seen
this
in
other
cities
and
it
is
very
effective,
slowing
down
traffic.
Forget
the
bike
lanes
concentrate
on
the
safety
of
the
neighbors.
The
cyclists
can
find
other
safe
areas
in
which
to
ride
there.
C
There
have
been
accidents
and
many
near
accidents.
The
last
thing
a
driver
needs
is
to
watch
for
a
cyclist
plus
the
oncoming
cars.
This
is
not
the
place
for
bike
lanes.
My
grown
son
and
daughter
are
avid
cyclists,
so
I
know
firsthand
some
of
the
hazards
they
face.
While
writing
don't
place
other
cyclists
in
harm's
way,
and
this
is
exactly
what
you
will
be
doing.
If
you
add
bike
lanes.
C
C
The
third
comment
comes
from
chuck
rooney.
Please
study
the
problems
before
creating
more
problems.
The
snap
decision
to
solve
the
speeding
electric
bikes
is
not
to
open
bike
lanes
on
fajrisa,
but
rather
to
enforce
speed
limits,
both
automobiles
and
bikes.
I
fear
that
the
inaction
on
addressing
the
speed
of
the
spread
of
speeding
electric
bikes
has
backed
the
city
into
a
corner
that
inaction
is
no
longer
an
alternative.
C
He
says
yes,
please,
that
road
is
the
only
way
for
people
who
live
up
the
streets
to
get
down
to
the
shopping
areas.
Hopefully,
the
marked
lanes
will
serve
as
a
reminder
that
there
are
ways
of
traveling
other
than
cars
and
that
vehicles
need
to
slow
down.
The
next
comment
comes
from
don
glasgow.
C
He
says:
greetings
city
planners
and
planning
commission.
I
have
lived
in
the
talaga
gallery
off
la
patrizia
18
years.
I
came
here
from
irvine,
where
I
was
a
long-term
avid
biker.
As
a
biker
in
and
out
of
my
complex,
I
found
riding
on
la
patriza
on
that
street.
Going
west,
then
back
east
was
a
set,
was
a
setup
of
me
to
be
a
biker
disaster,
since
there
were
no
striped
bike
lanes
with
high
speed
cars
whizzing
by
thus,
I
dropped
down
to
pico.
C
To
begin
my
to
begin
and
end
of
my
bike
rides,
your
restriping
initiative
for
bike
lanes
on
la
patrizia
receives
my
full
100
support,
along
with
all
other
bikers
on
this
side
of
talaga,
the
e-bikers
too.
They
need
to
move
off
our
sidewalks
and
begin
using
striped
bike
lanes.
Yes,
yes,
yes
and
yes
to
the
initiative
to
restripe
la
petrusa
for
bike
lanes.
There
is
plenty
of
room
since
the
middle
of
the
road
is
not
utilized.
C
Thank
you.
Don.
The
next
comment
comes
from
james
buck
resident
of
san
clemente.
I'm
opposed
to
the
proposed
striping
of
camino
la
padresa.
This
is
a
standard
residential
street.
Without
the
width
required
for
a
class
2
bike
lane
and
on
street
parking,
there
is
already
numerous
residential
street
for
daily
parking
throughout
the
whole
development.
There
is
no
need
for
bike
lanes
on
a
residential
street.
That
is
three
quarters
of
a
mile
in
length.
It
is
a
mystery
to
me
how
this
was
planned
or
proposed
after
18
years
of
use
in
current
condition.
C
The
next
comment
comes
from
matt
wilson
resident
of
san
clemente
as
a
resident
that
lives
very
close
to
camino
la
pedreza,
I'm
very
supportive
of
bike
lanes.
I
have
two
boys
ages,
nine
and
seven
that
are
very
active
on
their
bikes
and
camino.
La
patriza
is
their
way
in
and
out
of
the
neighborhood.
Currently
they
use
the
sidewalk,
because
there
is
no
bike
lanes
and
cars
routinely
go
45
miles
per
hour,
plus
on
the
street
with
a
good
bike
lane.
C
I
think
this
opens
up
access
and
also
will
reduce
the
likelihood
of
running
into
pedestrians
on
the
sidewalk
big
fan
of
this
idea,
and
our
last
comment
comes
from
tom
eckles
and
he
writes
thank
you
for
the
notice
we
received
in
the
mail
regarding
the
upcoming
lapadrisa
project,
my
wife
maureen,
and
I
live
on
the
corner
of
la
padres
and
caye
altea.
We
are
very
pleased
to
hear
about
the
plan.
We
do
have
one
area
of
input
for
your
consideration
when
multiple
cars
are
turning
off
vista
hermosa
into
the
existing
two
lanes
on
la
patriza.
C
The
two
lanes
quickly
merge
to
one
lane
a
short
distance
ahead
at
the
first
intersection,
which
they
indicate
is
their
intersection.
Many
times
a
day,
starting
at
the
entrance
onto
patriza
cars
fill
both
lanes
and
race
to
be
the
first
into
the
single
lane.
Ahead.
Aside
from
the
extremely
loud
disturbing
noise
from
rapid
acceleration,
a
dangerous
situation
occurs
repeatedly.
C
We
are
convinced
this
will
result
in
a
very
serious
accident
in
the
future.
This
physical
threat
extends
into
the
patrizia
sidewalk
as
well
as
into
our
property.
The
re-striping
should
help
this
situation.
However,
to
accomplish
this,
the
single
lane
should
begin
immediately
at
the
corner
of
la
patriza
and
vista
hermosa.
It
appears
by
the
planned
diagram
it
will,
but
we
wanted
to
reach
out
to
you
to
be
sure
it
is
so,
and
that
is
the
extent
of
our
written
communications
on
this
item.
B
Thank
you
very
much
adam
and
I
apologize
for
miss
introducing
you.
Is
it
saeeda.
B
Very
good:
do
you
want
to
make
a
presentation
on
this.
G
So
my
name
is
civil
senior
civil
engineer
in
charge
of
traffic,
and
I
want
to
talk
about
the
pedrizaria
striping,
with
considering
the
additional
bike
lanes
in
both
direction
today.
So
camino
la
pedreza
is
scheduled
to
be
slowly
filled
by
october
of
this
year
and
her
general
plans
complete
the
street
concept.
G
We
shall
consider
the
bikeway
improvement
project
as
part
of
any
other
street
street
improvement
project,
so
pedriza
is
classified
as
a
local
collector
and
is
carrying
the
average
daily
traffic,
ranging
from
four
thousand
at
avenida
pico
to
eight
thousand
at
avenida
vista
hermosa.
G
G
We
are
trying
to
maintain
the
lane
configuration
at
the
intersection
and
not
like
removing
any
left
turn
lanes
and
not
changing
the
travel
lane
number
of
the
travel
lanes.
G
So
I
share
here
the
proposed
striping
plans,
which
shows
that
that
which
includes
the
traveling
narrowing
to
11
feet
to
10
feet
along
the
road
with
and
wherever
feasible
we're,
adding
bicycle
lane
of
5
feet
and
the
buffer
bike
lane
where
feasible.
G
So,
if
you
notice
in
the
striping
plan,
it's
included
in
the
report
too,
we'll
kind
of
try
to
keep
the
lane
configuration
at
any
intersection
or
driveway
location
and
we're
just
eliminating
the
center
lane
wherever
we
require
room
for
providing
the
bike
lane.
G
So
I've
listed
the
benefits
to
rear
strike,
the
pedriza
tejrisa
street
with
adding
bike
lane,
which
will
narrow
the
travel
lane.
That
will
help
with
speeding
issue,
which
we
also
received
some
complaints
from
the
residents
in
the
past.
Regarding
the
I
mean
their
concern
about
the
speeding,
pedestrian
or
safety,
this
will
improve
the
environment
with
providing
more
room
for
bicyclists
and
will
also
visually
remind
vehicles
to
yield
to
the
bicycles
and
understand.
G
So,
overall
we
receive,
as
adam
read
all
of
them.
We
received
overall
11
public
feedback,
four
supported
and
seven
opposed
striping
and
I've
pre,
I'm
showing
here
the
breakdown
that,
besides
those
nine
emails
or
public
comments
on
the
website,
you
receive
on
also
two
phone
calls,
which
I
I
mean
both
are
opposed
to
striping,
and
I
try
to
explain
to
them
how
this
is
gonna
help
with
their
speeding,
which
is
their
main
concern
on
petrissa.
E
E
All
right
see
that
I've
been
taking
some
notes
and
I
actually
drove
up
there
today.
I
have
to
say:
I've
never
been
on
the
street
before
I've
lived
here
over
10
years
and
to
say
it's
narrow
is
an
understatement.
It's
very
very
narrow,
so
I
have
a
question.
A
couple
of
questions:
can
you
tell
me
where
is
the
the
most
narrow
part
of
the
street?
Your
say
is
going
to
be
reduced
from
11
to
10.,
where,
where
is
the
narrow
areas
in
the
street?
Is
it
would
you
say
about
80
percent
of
it?
G
So
I
drove
by
the
street
yesterday
also
to
measure
a
couple
of
locations
to
make
sure
that
we
have
enough
room
so,
based
on
what
I
understand
I
mean
on
the
road
we
measured.
Let
me
like
go
to
the
presentation
to
see
the
plan
location.
G
I
think
the
intersection
location
was
at.
Let
me
see.
G
G
Yeah
this
a
striping
plan
is
not
finalized,
yet
until
it
gets
approval,
so
we
need
to
show
all
the
detail
like
signage
for
for
bike
lane
no
parking
and
also
where
the
bike
lane
begins
and
where
it
ends,
including.
E
G
G
I
need
to
look
into
it,
but
based
on
what
I
studied
still
because
it's
not
only
it's
not
a
it's
not
considered
as
a
truck
route,
and
if
we
have
to
like
put
a
sign,
we
will
consider
that.
E
Okay
and
one
of
your
benefits
said
that
it
would
manage
speed
and
friction
resulting
from
elimination
of
of
the
striper
center
medium
and
according
to
the
footnotes
that
you
provided.
It
actually
states
that
there
is
no
significant
evidence
that
that
would
happen,
and
I
was
on
that
road
today
and
it's
a
40
mile
road
and
it
has-
I
came
in
on
pico
and
you
go
up
onto
an
incline
and
then
you,
then
you
go
down
and
the
speed
I
mean
I
was
going.
E
I
was
having
a
difficult
time
managing
it,
because
it's
windy
in
there
and
and
I'm
a
cyclist.
So
this
would
be
the
last
place
that
I
would
want
to
put
my
bike
only
because
of
the
narrowness
that
it
is
so
far.
I'm
willing
to
be
convinced
that
it's
going
to
look
a
lot
better,
but
as
it
as
the
twists
and
turns,
and
the
speed
and
possibly
school
buses
that
you
haven't
been
able
to
tell
me
if
they
they
are
going
there
or
trash
trucks
or
or
moving
trucks.
G
So
this
narrow
lens
will
help
with
the
managing
the
speed
this
has
been
studied
before
and
after
a
few
months
of
implementation,
we're
gonna
survey
the
speed
at
that
location,
and
this
will
probably
change
the
speed
limit
in
the
future.
Okay,
I'm
going
to
cite.
E
One
of
your
studies
that
you
put
as
a
footnote,
it
says
there's
no
consensus
in
the
literature
on
the
relationship
between
lane
width
and
speed.
Some
studies
have
shown
speed
reduction
as
much
as
three
miles
for
every
foot
of
lane,
narrowing
and
you're
length
you're
narrowing
by
one
foot.
Other
studies
show
a
more
slight
speed
reduction
of
about
one
mile
per
foot
of
lane
narrowing
or
no
significant
effect
whatsoever.
E
The
study
usually
and
generally
agrees
that
there
is
wide
variabilities
between
sites,
suggesting
that
lane
width
alone
is
not
responsible
for
the
entire
speed
reduction,
and
this
was
on
one
of
the
footnotes.
It
is
relationship
between
lane,
width
and
speed,
and
I
read
through
this
all
today,
so
I'm
not
quite
understanding
that
you
put
a
benefit
as
reduction
to
speed
that.
G
That
actually,
that
study,
I
actually
reviewed
that
study
too.
This
was
done
in
20
2003.
Those
are
including
the
case.
Studies
is
just
like
reporting
in
different
areas,
different
location,
not
specifically
in
san
clemente,
but
what
we
are
suggesting
is
based
on
the
general
recommendation
that
general
studies,
and
also
based
on
the
guidelines
based
on
the
the.
G
If
you
look
at
the
footnote,
the
footnote
number
two
and
four,
those
are
the
most
recent
guidelines,
and
also
these
are
besides
caltrans
and
the
mutcd
guidelines
as
well,
that
we
are
recommending
that
narrowing
lane
will
help
with
the
speeding
issue
and
it's
very
it's.
It
will
help
with
in
general,
airband
locations.
E
B
Okay,
commissioner
mcconkin,
I
see
your
microphone
is
on.
D
Two
points
here
are:
are
we
leaving
vista
hermosa
that
intersection
alone,
where
it
goes
from
two
lane
to
one
lane,
or
is
there
going
to
be
signage
that
tries
to
notify
somebody
who's
not
familiar
with
the
area
that
they're
going
to
have
to
immediately
decide
if
they
want
to
go
right
in
the
you
know,
to
go
through
or
turn
left
at
altea?
G
I
looked
at
that
recommendation
at
this
point.
We
we're
trying
to
avoid
any
changing
of
the
lane
configuration,
especially
that
segment
is
very
short,
to
reduce
the
two-lane
two-lane
serving
lanes
which
is
serving
hermosa
from
both
direction,
and
we're
not
gonna
do
that
at
this
point
and
if
there
is
going
to
be
any
problem
in
the
future,
we
need
to
look
into
it,
but
the
when
I
was
driving
that
segment
pretty
sure
to
speed
up
to
to
the
one
lane
which
we
are
there
is
existing
marking
and
which
we
are
keeping
the
existing
marking.
D
G
G
It
doesn't
stop
it,
it
doesn't
stop
the
bike.
Lane
continues.
It's
just
change,
we're
changing
that
like
showing
as
a
dash
line.
That
means
that
it's
kind
of
for
turning
vehicles
for
vehicles,
making
a
right
turn
they're
gonna,
yield
to
bicyclists
and
bicycles.
Bicyclists
are
gonna,
be
aware
that
the
vehicles
may
make
a
right
turn
there
and
they're
gonna
cross.
That
lane.
D
D
Let's
say
we're
heading,
you
know
towards
pico,
so
that
the
biker
has
this
wide
spot
when
he
gets
to
the
transition
at
coordinate
and
is
still
going
whatever
direction
that
is
heading
towards
pico.
It
looks
like
the
bike
lane
narrows
significantly,
because
it's
just
a
line.
It's
not
crossed
hatched.
D
G
D
Okay,
so
a
single
line
means
like
if
you
turn
the
page
that
cc
so
there
is
a
there
is
bike
lane
as
you
get
to
kaya
vista
del
sol,
that's
still
bike
lane.
G
The
crossing
line
is
we're
showing
the
dashed
line.
That
means
that
vehicles
may
cross
that
bike
lane,
and
I
know
I
understand
in
the
report
this
figures
are
very
tiny
to
see.
But
we've
checked
the
plan,
the
the
dimension
of
the
bike
lane
and
the
road
travel
lane
are,
as
shown
in
cross
section.
H
Commissioner,
mccarthy,
okay
and
when
we
come
yeah,
actually,
where
you
see
that
I
think
what
you're
seeing
you
see
that
kind
of
cross
hatch
in
certain
areas.
That's
a
striped
two
foot
buffer
between
the
travel
lane,
the
bike
lane.
So
in
some
areas,
there's
where
there's
width
enough,
there's
a
stripe:
two
foot
buffer,
plus
a
seven
foot
bike
lane
and
then,
where
there's
turning
turning
bays,
they
have
to
shrink
it
to
a
foot,
travel
lane,
no
buffer
and
a
five
foot
bike
lane.
D
G
Well,
yeah,
usually
based
on
the
regular
standard.
We
put
the
bike
lane
at
the
right
to
the
curb
very
close
to
the
curb,
as
shown
in
this
plan,
there
is
a
parking
lane
and
then
a
bike
lane
if
they
want
to
make.
F
D
G
So
the
parking
is
going
to
be.
There
is
a
9
feet,
parking
lane
at
the
curb
which
is
gonna
be
allowed
during
the
day
until
from
6
a.m,
to
10
p.m.
D
G
D
B
Thank
you,
commissioner.
Do
we
have
any
other
questions.
G
No
speeding
is
not
the
problem
is.
It
is
the
problem
that
we
receive
complaint
from
people,
but
is
not
the
first
thing
to
look
at
the
bicycle
lane
we're
looking
at
like
we
kind
of
investigate
the
additional
of
bike
lane
whenever
we
have
any
other
street
improvement.
As
I
explained
at
the
beginning
of
my
presentation,
pedriza
is
going
to
be
clearly
sealed
by
the
october
of
this
year
and
based
on
the
general
plan,
complete
street
concept,
we
shall
consider
I
mean
the
additional
of
bike
lane
in
any
street
that
we
have
room.
I
So
let
me
ask
you:
this
lego
was
built
after
the
city
was
incorporated
after
general
plan
was
adopted.
Why
was
that
lane
bike
lane
implementation
not
done
when
tolego
was
built
initially.
B
I
can
jump
in
on
that
one
I
think,
to
help
out
okay
during
the
the
general
plan
update,
which
was
about
10
years
ago
nine
years
ago.
Okay,
and
also
there
was
a
bicycle
master
plan
that
was
adopted
by
city
council.
B
That
basically
said
this
is
going
to
be
a
bicycle
friendly
city
and
I
think
adam
were
you
here
when
that
was
all
prepared
by
brenda
miller
and
so
forth.
C
Yes,
chair
crandall,
I
was,
and
that's
that's
absolutely
accurate.
The
the
bike
lanes
that
are
being
discussed
at
this
point
in
time
are
part
of
the
bicycle
master
plan
and
that
was
developed
as
part
of
the
most
recent
general
plan
update,
which
was
created
after
the
majority
of
tolego
was
was
already
built.
I
Okay,
well,
that
that
makes
sense.
I
I
feel,
like
the
concern
that
I
have
about
putting
a
bike
lane
on
here
is
the
fact
that
we
may
not.
Well,
let
me
ask
you
this:
is
there
going
to
be
a
bike
lane
buffer
for
the
entire
duration
of
this
road,
from
pico
to
vista
hermosa,.
I
G
So
I
can
tell
you
that
more
than
50
percent-
I'm
not
gonna,
say
80
percent,
but
it's
going
to
be
about
60
to
70
percent.
We
have
the
buffer
bike
lane.
I
Okay,
I
mean
that
okay.
G
It's
not
accurate.
Actually,
this
this
is
based
on
what
I
see
in
the
plan.
I
didn't
measure
the
the
length
of
the
road
to
provide
the
accurate
answer.
I
need
to
measure.
G
I
And
we
have,
I
live
in
tallagas,
so
I
don't
have.
I
don't
live
on
this
area,
but
I
live
in
another
area.
That's
exactly
like
this,
and
people
do
speed
down
that
hill.
It's
a
kind
of
difficult.
You
have
to
break
if
you're
not
going
to
speed
because
the
the
ink
the
decline
is
such
that
you
know,
even
if
you're
coasting,
unless
you
have
an
ev.
I
This
particular
roadway
does
not
have
the
benefit
of
that
electronic
sign
and
it's
implemented
on
the
downhill
side.
So
did
you
consider?
Would
you
consider
that
type
of
electronic
sign
on
both
the
decent
sides
of
this
road
as
an
additional
measure
to
address
the
speed
of
the
traffic.
G
Yeah,
which
we
can
consider
this
electronic
sign,
which
are
kind
of
warning,
driveways
kind
of
self-enforcement,
is
not
like.
No
one
is
gonna
catch
vehicles.
It's
just
a
warning
that
you're
like
if
you're
speeding,
it's
going
to
warn
you
yeah
and
you're
yeah,
because
I
think
it's
helpful.
I
It's
right
in
your
face:
it's
flashing,
it's
bright,
you
can't
miss
it.
You
know
you're
speeding
and
I
think
just
that
reminder
is
valuable.
It
works
in
my
neighborhood
and
this
street
is
so
similar
to
the
one
that
I
have
in
my
neighborhood.
So
I
think
they
would
benefit
from
it.
What
my
concern
about
the
bike
lane
I
like
the
buffer
if
we
had
the
buffer
the
whole
way.
I
I
think
this
would
be
a
great
implementation
of
the
bike
lane,
because
I
think
the
buffer
adds
a
layer
of
safety
additional
safety
for
that
biker.
What
I
do
notice
in
my
neighborhood
into
lego,
that's
very
similar
to
the
street-
is
the
kids
still
right
on
the
sidewalk,
because
they're
afraid
to
ride
on
the
street
with
just
the
single
bike
lane
painted
line
it's
too
narrow
and
drivers
are
going
too
fast
or
they
could
be
distracted,
and
I
don't
see
them
on
the
bike
lane.
I
I
So
I'm
just
conflicted
about
the
safety
measure
for
bikers
where
they
don't
have
a
buffer,
and
I
don't
know
what
we
can
do
to
increase
to
provide
a
buffer
for
the
you
know,
majority
of
it
that's
like
80
or
90.
I
think
that
would
go
a
long
way
to
addressing.
That
is
there
any
way
we
could
do
that
or
is.
G
I
just
want
to
note
that,
based
on
the
several
guidelines,
the
minimum
bike
lane
to
the
curb
is
four
feet
and
the
desirable
width
for
the
bike.
Lane
is
five
feet
and
the
buffer
lane
is
bike.
Lane
buffer
is
kind
of
recommended.
It's
not
yeah,
it's
not
necessary
and
we
tried
to
consider
the
buffer.
G
I
I
The
one
comment
from
the
resident
was:
it's
a
you
know,
kind
of
a
contest
to
see
who
can
get
and
lead
to
move
over
when
the
lanes
merge
are
used.
How
are
you
striping
that
at
vista
hermosa?
Is
it
going
to
be
one
lane
or
two.
G
It's
going
to
be
too
lame
because
we're
trying
we
try
to
keep
the
two
lane,
because
those
two
lanes
are
kind
of
provide
the
service
from
from
the
travel
lane
coming
from
hermosa
both
direction
and
we're
keeping
the
two
lanes,
because
some
of
the
vehicles
entering
her
to
pedriza
from
hermosa
they
they
will
try
to
make
a
right
turn
at
the
first
community
yeah
at
the
first
driveway,
which
is
located
less
than
like
400
feet.
So
that's
why
we
don't
want
to
provide
a
lot
of
conflict
with
narrowing
that
to
to
only
one
lane.
I
E
Yeah
I
have,
I
have
some
concerns
again.
I
support
bike
lanes,
but
I'm
a
little
concerned
in
this
area.
You
mentioned
that
you
haven't
studied
whether
buses
use
this
this
street
or
any
size
of
you
know
a
moving
truck
or
anything
larger
as
a
bus
or
a
large
as
a
bus,
and
I'm
going
back
to
one
of
your
researchers
on
the
footnotes
here,
one
of
the
papers
that
you
provided
and
it
specifically
addressed
buses.
E
Who
knows
what
other
trucks
will
be
coming
through
there,
that
it
would
encroach
in
the
bike
lane
and
could
cause
a
serious
accident?
It's
very.
G
Wide
based
on
what
I
checked
with
other
members
in
the
team
and
this
route
is
not
considered
as
a
truck
route
and
also
no
school
bus.
Unless
you
tell
me
because,
based
on
what
I
checked,
I
heard
from
the
the
transportation
engineer
and
the
assistant
transportation
engineer
that
no
trucks
are
going
through
and
is
not
considered
as
a
transit
route
and
not
considered
as
a
truck
route.
And
there
is
no
school
in
the
area
to
be
used
by.
I
mean
to
be
grown.
E
E
I'm
not
convinced
so
I'm
I'm
just
because
you
didn't
give
me
that
confidence
at
the
beginning
that
you
addressed
the
trucks
or
if
there
was
a
sign
or
if
buses
come
through
there
or
not,
it's
very
narrow
and
I
even
had
problems
negotiating
the
curves
at
going
reduced
speed
under
40..
I
was
I
looked
at
my
speed
and
it
was
35,
I'm
just
really
concerned
about
putting
a
bike
lane
there.
E
I
I
I
want
to
feel
confident
when
I'm
in
a
bike
lane-
and
I
want
everybody's
kids
to
feel
confident-
and
I
I
just
have
some
concerns
for
this.
I
just
don't
think
it's
there's
a
lot
of
questions
that
I
I
don't
have
answered
yet.
B
Okay,
very
good.
Now
I'm
going
to
jump
in
and
just
ask
a
little
procedural
thing
here.
Adam
help
me
out
if
you
can
or
zach
what
we're
being
asked
to
do
here
is.
B
Give
our
comments
and
our
concerns-
and
this
would
be
then
reviewed
by
city
council.
They
would
then
authorize
traffic
to
continue
a
study
on
this.
C
C
This
is
a
recommendation
about
the
the
nature
of
the
project
and
with
there
are
specifics,
provided,
but
what
would
be
provided
to
the
council
would
be
would
would
be
more
would
be
specific
in
nature,
so
we
would
not
request
from
the
council
to
then
go
off
and
do
additional
research.
B
Okay,
so
staff
has
been
authorized
to
spend
the
money
to
develop
this
project
and
engineer
it
or
will
that
come
from
city
council
after
they
see
this
because
I'm
not
sure
we
have
you
know
we
don't
know
the
striking,
we
don't
know
the
signage
etc.
C
Yes,
I'm
not
I'm
not
sure
if
this
maybe
zach
ponton,
our
interim
deputy
public
works
director
would
know.
If
has
this
been
included
in
the
cip,
and
has
funds
already
been
allocated
for
this
project.
J
So
right
now
we
are
scheduled
to
have
this
story
sealed
in
october
and
so
late
october,
and
so
that's
why
we're
trying
to
get
a
restriping
plan
to
council
prior
to
that
slurry
seal
project
that
has
already
been
scheduled
to
start.
J
We're
basically
following
that
and
seeing
that
we
can
squeeze
this
in
and
it
is
fairly
common
to
have
10
and
11
foot
travel
lanes.
We've
been
doing
that
for
several
years
in
the
city
and
we
don't
really.
We
haven't
rolled
them
out
so
far
when
it
comes
to
kind
of
trash
truck
or
a
fire
truck
to
go
on
the
street.
J
J
Correct
so
this
wasn't
a
specific
street
identified
in
the
bicycle
master
plan,
but
for
our
general
plan
we
are
to
look
at
pretty
much
all
streets
when
we
have
that
ability.
You
know
our
our
goal,
for
that
general
plan
is
to
try
to
put
in
those
bicycle
lanes
whether
it
be
the
smallest
class
or
the
largest
class.
B
E
Full
buffered
bike
lane
that's
a
major
concern,
as
in
and
as
in
other
areas
of
the
city,
which
is
preferable.
I
can't
so
if
we
moved
along,
it
would
be
based
with
a
list
of
concerns.
B
Because
we're
not
necessarily
approving
it,
we're
recommending
basically
that,
because,
in
the
statement
of
that
we're
feasible,
where
feasible
and
with
minor
revisions-
yes,
it
appears,
we
can
make
those
recommendations
and
if
they
can't
be
implemented,
then
city
council
can
say
well.
We
can't
comply
with
what
planning
commission
wanted
to
try
to
write.
D
Yeah,
I
could
never.
I
thought
we
were
only
in
the
question
section,
so
I
have
just
some
comments.
First
of
all,
I'm
in
full
support
of
this.
I
think
it's
very
clear.
It's
the
implementation
of
the
general
plan
and
also
the
bike
specific
plan,
which
I
think
is
a
separate,
a
separate
plan
that
probably
wants
to
be
updated
by
the
city
just
since
the
proliferation
of
e-bikes,
but
I
mean
it's
very
clear.
D
Not
only
are
these
folks
certified
traffic
engineers
and
civil
engineers,
so
there's
a
full
set
of
rules
that
they
have
to
use,
and
I
see
they're
referencing,
the
california
manual
of
uniform
traffic
control
devices,
I
mean
there's
a
set
standard
that
makes
these
safe,
but
also
they're
referencing,
the
nacto
standard,
which
are
the
industry
standard
for
traffic
engineering.
So
I
have
full
support
for
this,
I'm
familiar
with
urban
bikeway
design
guidelines,
as
well
as
the
street
design
guidelines,
and
so
I
think
this
is
great.
D
If
you
look
at
the
map,
there's
no
other
way
to
get
out
of
this
neighborhood
for
bikes.
So
without
a
bike
lane,
there's
no
safe
place
for
bikes
to
go,
so
we
might
as
well
be
providing
them
with
a
bike
lane
that
meets
the
nafta
standards,
as
well
as
the
california
state
standards.
B
Thank
you
very
good
comments.
Anyone
else
want
to
commissioner
mcconkin.
D
Well,
I
agree
I
want
to
say
I
agree
with
the
same
comments
that
we
just
made,
because
bikers
are
already
there.
I've
traveled
this
a
lot
because
the
grandkids
play
at
that
baseball
field
at
avenida,
pico
and
or
to
lego
park
and
the
bikers
are
already
there
so
to
have
any
kind
of
bike
lane.
I
think
whether
it's
buffered
or
not,
is
an
added
improvement.
D
My
concerns
just
become
emergency
vehicles
and,
like
say
you
know
the
garbage
collection,
because
those
are
the
big
vehicles
coming
and
our
concern
about
electronic
speed
signs,
because
up
here
where
I
live
on
las
freses,
they
put
in
those
electronic
signs
and
it
does
slow
down
the
traffic
that,
along
with
a
follow-up
by
the
sheriff,
because
they
electronically
posted
35
miles
an
hour
because
going
downhill
people
were
getting
pretty
fast.
D
B
I
Yeah,
I'm
what
I'd
like
to
do
is
float
how
we
could
package
this.
So
what
I
would
do
in
a
I'll
read
what
I'm
thinking
we
should
do
as
as
part
of
a
motion
to
the
council
that
we
basically
asked
the
staff
to
indicate
that
the
planning
commission
has
made
the
following
observations.
I
I
We
have
concerns
about
reducing
the
lane
to
ten
feet
in
order
to
accommodate
large
vehicles
such
as
moving
trucks,
emergency
vehicles,
etc,
or
the
ideal
bike
lane
striping
configuration
would
include
a
buffer
and
staff
should
be
clear
about
where
the
buffer
is
and
where
the
buffer
isn't.
So
the
council
is
aware
of
that
configuration.
H
I
actually
have
some
questions,
but
does
the
manual
uniform
traffic
control
devices
have
any
criteria
as
to
when
and
where
it's
appropriate
to
have
bike
lanes
versus
not.
G
That
mostly
provide
the
criteria
for
providing
the
signage
for
bike
lanes
and,
for
example,
when
there
is
a
in
different
geometry
and
different
configuration
at
intersection
or
along
the
road.
How
the
marking
should
be
implemented
for
the
biplane
and
right
turn,
and
also
where
we
need
to
provide
the
signage.
G
Yes,
that
comes
that
comes
from
mostly
from
caltrans
and
the
the
footnote
that
I
provided
in
the
report
for.
H
G
H
Thank
you.
Are
you
aware
of
any
studies
linking
the
safety
of
bicyclists
with
and
without
bike
lanes,.
G
So
not
specifically,
I
didn't
check
any
study,
but
that's
the
that's.
G
My
general
knowledge
based
on
the
guideline
that
I
checked
that
the
additional
love
biplane
will
provide
safety,
because
it's
gonna
like
inform
driveways,
that
there
is
a
bike
lane
and
you
need
to
yield
to
the
bicyclist
and
the
bicyclists
cannot
share
they're,
not
sharing
the
the
the
roadway
and
the
class
two
white
bike
lane
class
two
that,
as
zac
explained,
is
the
minimum
by
class
type
and
if
we
cannot
provide
the
bike
lane
with
like
marking
or
signage
bicyclists
need
to
share
the
road
which
is
like
that
should
be
implemented
in
corridors
with
very
low
speed
limits.
H
Okay,
my
two
cents.
I
agree,
I
mean,
I
think
it's
definitely
worth
study,
but
I
think
that's
been
done
and
it
it
seems
to
me
it's
going
to
be
an
improvement
and
safer
situation.
So
I'm
supportive
of
the
recommendation
to
council.
B
Okay,
commissioner
mcconkin,
are
you
there.
B
Do
we
have
a
motion
and
the
person
making
the
motion?
Will
they
be
willing
to
accept
the
additional
recommendations
proposed
by
commissioner
cosgrove.
D
I
just
have
a
comment
on
it
because,
ultimately,
ultimately,
our
concern
about
emergency
vehicles
that
all
goes
back
to
civil
engineering
and
there
are
minimum
standards
for
lane
widths,
and
so
we
can
all
be
concerned
about
it.
But
if
it
meets
the
minimum
standard,
then
it's
it's
engineered
and
it's
safe
and
I
realize
there's
like
a
range
for
which
people
feel
comfortable,
but
I
think
the
safety
has
been
established
by
those
state
adopted
documents
that
established
the
minimum
widths.
D
So
I
think
it
sounds
like
they've
tried
to
make
things
as
wide
as
possible
and
given
the
road
with,
and
obviously
it's
going
to
fluctuate
because
the
red
width
fluctuates.
But
ultimately
emergency
vehicles
are
already
being
contemplated
by
our
engineering
staff.
So
I
don't
know
that
it
makes
sense
to
forward
that
recommendation
with
the
emergency
vehicle
comment,
because
they've
already
done
everything
they
can
to
make
it
as
wide
as
possible.
E
Now,
I'm
going
to
disagree
with
that,
because
we
we
try
to
find
out
where
the
most
narrow
spot
in
this
road
is,
and
we
could
not
identify
that
and
if
it's-
and
if
this
study
over
here
that
is
cited
by
the
city,
that
the
the
vehicles
for
that
that
width
needs
to
be
at
least
12
feet.
And
we
don't
really
know
where
the
most
narrow
spot
is,
I'm
not
sure
it
does
accommodate.
I
I
think
it's
a
wise
thing
to
at
least
recommend
that
this
be
looked
into
when
it
goes.
B
To
sit
down
and
and
zach
would
you
comment
your
experience
on
our
10-foot
streets
with
vikings
and
just
a
single
strike
with
nothing,
but
I
think
we've
got
a
number
of
them
and
I
think
they
performed
pretty
well.
J
And
I
think
they
have
in
general,
I'm
pretty
familiar
with
a
lot
of
our
streets
in
town.
I
haven't
been
in
this
position
to
be
designing
them
for
too
long,
but
ultimately
we
have
our
standards
and,
like
syeda,
says
those
class
class.
2
bike
lanes
are
the
minimum
so
that
clear
distance
of
four
feet
performed
pretty
well,
but
when
you
do
do
those
and
make
them
the
minimum
of
four
feet,
let's
say
to
try
to
increase
that
lane:
width
from
10
to
11,
to
11
12.
J
by
decreasing
that
bike
down
to
four
you're
now
almost
putting
them
in
the
gutter
line
too,
and
so
the
actual
amount
of
asphalt
is
now
narrower
now
or
down.
And
so
I'm
hearing
a
couple
different
things
and
ultimately
I
I
think
we
have
a
successful
policy
and
a
general
plan
that
identifies
type
2
class
bike
lanes
to
be
able
to
go
in
when
possible,
and
we've
got
a
pretty
long
standing
practice
of
narrowing
lanes
down
to
10-11
feet
wide.
J
This
road,
in
particular
for
the
for
karen's
question
I
think,
and
for
the
majority
of
it
it's
40
feet
wide
curb
face
to
curb
face.
There
are
a
couple
points
correct
me.
If
I'm
wrong,
where
it
goes
down
to
just
just
above
39,
I
think
we
that
we
were
trying
to
yeah
every
10
feet
or
anything
the
whole
length,
but
there's
a
couple
points
where
it
narrows
down
to
39.
J
and
at
the
intersections
it
gets
a
little
wider
in
some
cases,
but
at
the
intersections
we're
also
not
striping
the
bike
lane
fully
through
those
intersections.
That's
where
you're
allowing
the
left
turn
the
right
turns
and
left
turns.
J
So
in
general.
To
answer
your
question
bar,
it's
been
a
success
from
what
I,
what
I've
seen
and
been
in
compliance
with
our
general
plan
and
our
policies
that
you
know
they
work
towards
for
a
long
time
when
we
established
that
new
general
plan
update
10
years
ago,
an
earlier
question
about
the
previous
general
plan
prior
to
telego
back
in
1993..
B
Okay,
thank
you
very
much
zach.
I
don't
see
mr
mcconkin
back
so
do
we
have
someone
who
wants
to.
I
Yes,
mr
chairman,
I'll,
take
a
stab
at
it.
I
move
that
we
forward
to
the
city
council
the
recommendation
to
approve
restriping
of
camino
la
de
plaza,
as
shown
the
attachments
with
the
following
observations.
I
I
Well,
I've
I've.
I
decided
to
remove
the
concern
about
the
width
of
the
lane,
based
on
the
conversations
that
we
just
had
it
it.
It
is
what
it
is
and,
besides
I
do
think
we,
if
you
know
10,
if
it's
almost
40
feet
all
the
way
around
you
know
we're
talking.
We
should.
I
think
that
the
staff
is
doing
the
right
thing.
B
Very
good,
we
have
a
motion
by
cosgrove.
Do
we
have
a
set.
E
I
would
just
like
to
add
that
the
consideration
would
be
given
to
size
of
vehicles
such
as
emergency
vehicles,
moving
vans,
school
buses.
There's
the
park
with
the
baseball.
B
I
It
because
I
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
not
contradicting
ourselves
because
we're
I
feel
like
the
bike
lane
buffer
is
important,
and
I
wouldn't
want
to
give
that
up.
No
right,
we
don't
want
to
give
that
up,
and
so
I'm
just
concerned
that
we're
sending
conflicting
messages
about
well,
maybe
the
roadway
is
not
big
enough.
B
F
B
We
can
also
have
an
alternate
motion,
correct.
I
B
Well,
I
think
your
motion
was
concise.
We
have
about
well,
commissioner,.
F
Can
I
just
make
a
statement
how's
your
even
if
I
make
a
statement
just
about
why
I'm
seconding,
I
think
what
we're
doing
here
is
we're
giving
a
conceptual
approval
to
the
addition
of
these
bike
lanes.
It's
not
for
us
to
decide
the
appropriate
width.
I
mean
that's
that's
by
engineering,
and
so,
if
we
start
putting,
you
know,
conditions
or
concerns
that
can't
be
achieved.
F
F
B
H
B
D
B
The
motion
on
the
floor
is
to
approve
or
to
recommendation,
to
move
this
along
the
city
council,
and
I
think
he
with
three
comments
that
commissioner
cosgrove
had
of
concerns.
He's
it's
not
a
mandate.
It's
just
to
voice
our
concerns
to
the
project
for
city
council
to
consider.
I
Absolutely
the
downhill,
speed,
okay
and
then
as
to
mitigate
that
we're
recommending
the
electronic
speed
signs.
F
I
And
then
we're
just
indicating
that
the
bike
lanes
with
the
buffer
provide
the
most
margin
of
safety,
and
we
encourage
that.
You
know
we.
B
I
B
I
will
vote
yes
hi,
I'm
commissioner
mcconkin
hi
and
commissioner
crandall
isn't
I
passage
700
and
a
recommendation
to
staff
to
review
the
comments
by
the
commissioners
as
far
as
additional
recommendations
just
to
voice.
Our
concern
to
city,
council
and
city
council
will
also
have
our
minutes
to
review
and
the
video
if
they
also
have
any
questions.
I
Yeah,
mr
chair,
I
would
just
real
quick
as
a
note
that
I
think
emergency
vehicles.
I
think
we're
probably
fine,
because
if
they're
going
down
the
street
with
lights
and
sirens,
people
pull
over
they'll
drive
down
the
middle
of
the
road.
It's
probably
more.
The
issue
of
large
the
school
bus
or
the
or
the
moving
trucks
is
probably
more
the
issue.
The
staff,
maybe
could
just
make
sure
we're
good.
There.
B
Very
good
and
staff
are:
do
you
understand
those
comments?
Okay,.
J
G
I
just
wanted
to
like
for
comment
number
two
considering
the
electric
speed
sign.
So
after
a
few
months
when
driveway
adjusts
to
the
newest
striping
we're
gonna,
do
the
feed
survey
to
determine
the
85th
percentile
of
the
speed
the
vehicles
are
driving
through
and
that
will
that
may
change
the
speed
limit
on
that
corridor.
G
I
Yeah,
mr,
if
I
could
just
is
it
fairly
easy,
I
mean
the
first
of
all
the
speed
signs
going
to
show
them
their
actual
speed,
so
chances
are
you're
going
to
go
ahead
and
change
the
speed
limit
signs
regardless
right.
If
you
change
the
speed
limit
to
me,
those
are
two
separate
things.
G
I
I
think
it's
just.
I
think
it
would
be
important
when
the
restriping
is
done
and
the
residents
see
those
bike
lanes
if
they
also
see
that
electronics
sign
going
up.
I
think
both
sides
will
probably
see
the
city's
trying
to
make
a
big
effort
here
to
acknowledge
that
their
concerns
were
here
heard.
Okay,.
B
Very
good
we've
got
a
motion
passed
and
that
will
be
going
on
to
city
council.
So
thank
you
very
much.
I'm
going
to
try
sayida.
G
B
Okay,
very
nice,
very
nice
job
good
report.
Thank
you.
Now,
in
new
business
adam
you
had
some
contact
with
commissioner
prescott.
She
found
some
new
information
from
the
state
on
adus.
B
C
You
know
I
was
going
to
report
on
that
as
as
part
of
the
staff
report
at
the
end
of
it.
Okay,.
B
We
will
hold
that
until
then.
The
next
item
is
old
business.
We
have
none
so
now
we
are
at
reports
of
commissioners
and
staff,
and
I
was
going
to
let
you
and
commissioner
prescott
kind
of
quickly
outline
what
you've
found
out
or
what
she's
found
out
and
what
your
response
is.
You
can't
talk
about
it
in
depth
as
a
group,
since
it's
not
on
the
agenda
that
you
can
certainly
report
on
what
you
found
out.
E
I
had
requested
clarification
on
just
in
general
on
where
an
adu
could
be
placed
on
a
zero
setback,
as
opposed
to
adhering
to
regular
code,
which
I
believe
is
five
foot.
Is
that
what
city
code
is
for
a
normal
setback?
And
so
I
wanted
to
know
what
qualified
for
a
zero
setback
and
what
qualified
for
a
non-zero
setback,
because
I
believe
in
the
past,
I
was
under
the
impression
that
it
all
adus
could
be
placed
on
a
zero
setback.
And-
and
that's
not
the
case,.
C
You're,
correct,
not
all
adus
are,
would
receive
the
benefit
of
a
zero
lot
line.
Setback
at
in
the
previous
meeting.
There
was
a
project
that
included
a
portion
of
a
property
that
was
proposed
for
a
future
adu
and
that
wasn't
part
of
the
purview
of
the
permits
that
the
count
that
the
commission
was
reviewing
in
the
context
of
that
project,
that
particular
property
would
be
able
to
have
a
zero
setback,
but
that's
not
all
adus.
C
So
what
we?
What
I've
looked
into,
is
I'm
trying
to
find
it?
I
believe
it
was
the
november
third
study
session,
we're
going
to
have
staff,
provide
a
an
overview
of
adu
regulations,
clarify
you
know
where
they're
allowed,
where
they're
not
allowed
and
then
the
it
may.
C
I
may
want
to
move
that
up
to
a
new
business
item
if
there
are
applications
that
have
adu
implications
to
them
before
november
3rd.
At
this
point,
I
don't,
I
don't
see
anything
on
the
on
the
calendar,
but
things
can
things
can
get
agendized
within
a
couple
weeks.
So
at
this
point
november
3rd
we
will
have
a
study
session
on
adu
regulations
and
if
we
do
happen
to
have
some
applications
that
are
coming
up
with
adus
in
them,
we
will.
C
B
Thank
you
very
much
and
this
questions
arose.
Commissioner
prescott
had
pulled
up
the
latest
adu
state
requirements,
and
it
I
think
it
was
2021.
C
Yes,
we
will.
We
will
provide
as
much
current
information
as
we
can,
including
things
that
are
very
likely
to
get
adopted.
B
So
that
is
reports
of
commissioners
and
staff.
The
next
item
is
adjournment.
Do
we
have
a
sure
crandall?
Yes,
commission?
We
can.
H
Clean
real
quickly,
please,
last
night
at
the
city
council
meeting
my
name
was
brought
up
and
slandered.
I
was
not
aware
of
that.
False
things
were
said
about
me.
I
just
want
to
you
know
kind
of
correct
the
record
in
public.
Well,
let
me.
B
The
commissioners
have
a
chance
to
comment
on
the
agenda,
so
we
can
just
yeah
there's
there's
no
problem
as
long
as
it's
brief,
there's
no
problem.
Okay,
thank
you.
Go.
H
Ahead
trust
me,
I
want
it
to
be
brief.
The
the
individual-
I
don't
even
know
her
name,
but
she
was
very
you
know,
seemingly
upset
about
me
being
on
the
planning.
H
H
She
said
that
it
was
inappropriate
that
I
attend
the
trolley
meeting,
which
occurred
in
late
july
before
we
became
active
planning.
Commissioners.
H
On
july
1st,
I
want
to
point
out
that
I
was
invited
by
the
city
to
attend
the
trolley
meeting
as
we're
all
current
planning,
commissioners
and
oh,
by
the
way,
we're
all
sworn
in
as
planning
commissioners
before
the
trolley
tour,
and
also
she
seemed
to
say
that
somehow
the
fact
that
I
sell
real
estate
in
saint
clementine,
a
point
in
san
juan
capistrano,
makes
me
ineligible
to
be
a
planning.
Commissioner,
and
I
don't
believe,
that's
the
case,
so
I
just
wanted
to
correct
the
record
in
public.
Thank
you.
B
Thank
you,
I'm
sorry
that
you
had
to
go
through
that.
So
do
we
have
a
motion
for
adjournment.
B
B
So
do
we
have
a
second
second
was
that
commissioner
cosgrove
yeah,
we
have
a
motion
by
commissioner
prescott
second
by
commissioner
cosgrove
low
call
vote.
Commissioner
camp
commissioner
mccann
aye.
Commissioner
cosgrove
aye,
commissioner
tyler
hi,
commissioner
prescott
aye,
commissioner
mcconkin
hi
and
commissioner
crandall
is
an
eye
pass
at
7-0,
and
I
just
want
to
a
quick
comment.
Is
I
think,
the
city's
lucky
to
have
a
commission
that
is
very
concerned
about
safety
of
our
residents,
so
very
good.