►
Description
City of San José, California
Police & Fire Department Retirement Plan Board of October 6, 2022
This public meeting will be conducted via Zoom Webinar. For information on public participation via Zoom, please refer to the linked meeting agenda below.
Agenda: https://sjrs.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=A&ID=1000073&GUID=5E5491DB-331C-41A1-BAB8-321396F7FC13
A
B
A
A
D
D
D
D
D
D
D
D
A
D
D
E
D
D
F
E
A
All
right
good
morning,
everybody
let's
go
ahead
and
start
off
the
police
and
fire
board
meeting
for
October,
6,
20
or
2022..
A
C
He
will
be
join
me
later.
Okay
sounds
good
trustee
Menon
here
trustee
Vado.
C
A
About
Santos
I'm
singing
The
Best,
For
Last.
Well,
that's
not
in
the
order
trustee
Santos
I'm
here
and
trustee
Lovato
I.
Don't
think
I
heard
him
he's
here:
okay
and
trustee
Wilson,
The,
Best,
For,
Last,
trustee,
Wilson
I'm,
here
all
right,
so
we've
got
a
couple,
people
that
are
absent,
but
they
will
be
here
in
the
next,
probably
the
next
five
ten
minutes,
so
we
will
have
a
full
Quorum
or
a
full
board.
A
E
E
E
E
E
E
E
E
A
G
G
G
G
H
G
H
H
H
A
I
I
J
J
J
A
A
A
A
G
B
B
B
B
B
B
B
B
B
K
K
B
B
B
B
B
B
L
B
B
L
L
K
B
M
M
M
K
B
B
B
B
B
B
L
M
M
M
N
N
A
J
J
J
L
O
O
O
O
O
O
O
O
O
P
P
P
O
O
J
O
O
B
B
J
G
G
Q
Closed
session
Maytag
we'll
do
the
second
the
first.
There
is
no
report
out,
but
we
will
be
voting
in
Open
Session
on
Peru's
compensation
over
to
you,
maytech
and
also
for
item
1B
in
closed
session.
The
plan
in
member
Kenneth
Williams
has
agreed
to
a
written
settlement
agreement
regarding
action
to
be
taken
due
to
the
members
conviction
of
a
felony
in
2008..
Q
The
agreement
essentially
provides
for
the
members
current
monthly
allowance
to
be
reduced
for
the
rest
of
his
life
by
10,
starting
of
March
1
2023,
based
on
the
facts
and
circumstances
of
Mr
Williams
case.
The
member
has
also
waived
and
released
any
and
all
claims
against
the
plan
arising
out
of
the
board
member's
actions
under
the
municipal
code.
Thank
you
great.
Q
Let's
go
and
jump
right
into
the
meeting
orders
of
the
day
standard
things
for
we
we're
all
showing
good
zoom
etiquette.
So
if
it's
temporal
the
question,
you
have
go
ahead
and
jump
in
interrupt
the
speaker,
you
don't
have
to
raise
your
hand
on
Zoom,
but
other
than
that
we'll
go
formally
around
for
votes
and
if
it's
a
detailed
subject
we'll
go
formally
around
for
comments,
we
there's
nothing
to
wave
sunshine
on
Floors
open
anybody
from
the
public
want
to
make
a
comment.
Q
If
not,
the
first
item
on
the
agenda
is
the
consent
calendar.
Does
anybody
want
to
pull
anything
off
the
consent?
Calendar
no
motion
to
approve
by
Santos,
I'm
emotion,
approved
by
scientist,
do
I
have
a
second.
Q
Dick,
yes,
Franco
all
right,
Dave,
Wilson,
aye,
chairlands,
I
vote
I
as
well.
If
you're
out
there
Prabhu
it's
your
turn
now
for
Investments.
Yes,
I
am
Mr
chairman.
Thank
you
good
morning
trustees.
So
we
just
have
the
one
item
on
the
agenda
today
for
Investments
and
that's
the
presentation
of
the
feeder
port,
and
this
is
something
that
we
bring
to
the
board
every
year,
either
in
September
or
October,
and
then
after
that,
take
it
to
the
city
council
and
just
to
remind
the
board.
Q
R
Public
plans
three
or
four
outside
of
us
that
produce
such
a
comprehensive
feeder
board,
and
this
year
the
fee
report
was
was
prepared
by
investment
officer,
Eric
sang
who
joined
the
system
last
at
the
end
of
last
year,
and
he
prepared
this
with
the
the
assistance
of
some
of
the
other
iOS.
It's
a
very
difficult
and
time
consuming
exercise
because
the
data
has
to
come
from
multiple
sources.
So
thank
you
Eric
for
doing
that,
and
also
to
remind
the
board.
R
In
years
past
I
have
actually
presented
this
with
trustee
former
trustee
Sunseri
at
the
city
council
and
last
year,
I
presented
this
with
trustee
Sunita,
with
that
introduction,
I'm
actually
going
to
turn
this
over
to
Dinesh.
To
present
the
CSV
report
to
you,
Dinesh
thanks.
Let
me
share
my
screen.
R
Great
so,
as
previous
mentioned,
this
is
our
annual
fee
report
for
calendar
year
2021.,
it's
a
big
undertaking,
because
only
a
few,
a
handful
of
public
pension
plans
do
this,
there's
a
lot
of
work
involved
to
gather
the
information
and
scrub
it
to
get
it
to
this
format.
So
the
way
that
we
go
about
doing
this
is
first
by
requesting
all
of
our
managers
fill
out
various
fee
templates
to
gather
data
for
the
private
funds.
R
We
asked
them
to
fill
out
the
ilpa
fee
reporting
template
stands
for
the
institutional,
limited
partners
Association
and
for
the
public
funds.
We
asked
the
public
markets
funds.
We
ask
them
to
fill
out
a
simplified
version
of
this
template
once
we
get
those
feeds
back,
we
scrub
the
data.
Do
some
quality
control
make
some
updates
ask
the
managers
to
provide
information
that
in
some
cases,
is
missing
or
isn't
clear
and
then
aggregate
it
all
together,
based
on
different
asset
classes
and
rolling
up
to
the
overall
plan.
R
We
also
gather
free
data
and
expense
data
on
other
vendors,
our
salary
expenses,
Consultants
custodian
bank
and
other
vendors
that
we
so
there's.
Two
reports
associated
with
this
item
there's
a
long-form
version
of
the
presentation
that
has
a
lot
of
numbers
as
well
as
an
appendix
that's
intended
to
comply
with
the
California
fee
reporting
law.
R
R
So
getting
into
the
report
here.
On
the
left
hand,
side,
we
showed
the
total
expense
ratio
over
the
last
five
years
for
2021
you'll,
see
that
a
total
expense
ratio
of
1.66
percent
as
compared
to
1.21
in
the
previous
year.
There's
three
categories
of
fees
that
we're
capturing
here.
So
the
blue
bars
are
fund
management
fees,
orange
bars
are
incentive
fees
or
profit
sharing.
And,
lastly,
the
dark
brown
is
operating
expenses.
R
So,
looking
at
the
year-over-year
change,
there's
really
no
change
in
management
fees,
it's
flat
from
52
basis
points
to
53
basis
points
year
over
year.
What
did
change
is
the
dark,
the
orange
bar,
which
is
incentive
fees
from
0.53
in
2020
to
1.03
in
2021,
so
a
really
large
jump
in
incentive
fees.
What
might
be
surprising
is
if
we
look
down
towards
the
middle
of
the
page.
The
return
of
the
plan
didn't
actually
change
very
much
from
13.7
percent
in
2020
to
14.6
percent
in
2021,
so
an
increase
of
roughly
a
percent.
R
What
did
change
is
the
composition
of
underlying
funds
that
contributed
to
that
overall
return.
So
for
private
markets
in
2021
the
return
was
38
private
markets
funds
typically
have
an
incentive
fee
associated
with
the
returns
of
those,
so
in
Good
Times
we'll
be
sharing
some
of
those
profits
with
the
fund
managers
and
bad
times.
We
won't
be
public
equity,
on
the
other
hand,
produced
a
16
return
in
2021,
so
much
lower.
R
R
So
the
police
and
fire
plan
is
shown
as
the
green
ovals
you'll
see
that
we're
really
in
the
middle
of
the
pack.
The
reason
that
these
fee
ratios
are
much
lower
than
the
comprehensive
fees
that
we
showed
on
the
left-hand
side
is
that
these,
based
on
governmental
accounting
standards,
are
only
based
on
observable
fees
that
are
either
by
invoice
or
directly
written
in
a
statement
that
we
received
from
a
fund
manager.
R
R
Which
shows
that
fees
are
really
a
function
of
two
things:
first,
asset
allocation,
so
a
greater
allocation
towards
strategies
like
private
markets
would
expect
to
have
a
higher
fee
ratio.
The
other
thing
is
the
implementation
of
the
asset
allocation
So
within
a
certain
asset
class
such
as
public
Equity,
there's
a
decision
to
invest
in
passive
Equity,
active
Equity
or
hedge
funds
within
that
program.
R
So
what
we
show
here
is
that
since
2016
there's
been
a
decline
in
the
fee
ratio
for
management
fees
by
38
basis
points,
so
taking
advantage
of
really
two
things
that
I'll
get
into
and
on
a
dollar
basis.
This
translates
to
about
4.1
million
dollars,
as
shown
on
the
right
hand
side,
even
though
the
plan
assets
have
grown
tremendously
since
2016..
R
So
the
first
thing
that
drove
that
decrease
in
management
fee
ratio
is
the
increased
allocation
towards
passive
funds.
So
here,
on
the
right
hand,
side,
the
the
bar
Blue
Bar,
shows
passive
allocation.
So
in
2016
about
a
quarter
of
the
plan
was
in
passive
strategies
in
2021
that
increased
to
44
percent.
R
Hey
Dinesh,
would
you
argue
that
they're
still
active,
but
we
are
the
people
doing
the
active
part?
Could
you
make
that
argument
in
a
way
it
can
be
depending
on
the
type
of
passive
strategies
it
could
be
yeah.
That's
absolutely
right.
R
And
the
second
item
to
point
out
on
the
the
changes,
the
reduction
in
allocation
towards
hedge
funds.
So,
on
the
left
hand
side
of
the
page.
We
have
a
contribution
to
that
active
allocation
of
management
fees,
broken
down
into
public
strategies,
private
strategies
and
hedge
strategies,
so
hedged
being
the
dark
brown
and
in
2016
that
represented.
F
R
So
with
that
I'll
go
back
to
this
summary
slide
and
open
up
to
further
questions
thanks
floor
is
open.
Let
me
ask
first
question:
you
know
Peru
I
hadn't
thought
about
that,
but
let's
make
sure
we
capture
for
Boo,
as
we
go
to
incentive
compensation
that
to
some
extent
we
are
taking
on
some
of
the
active
role.
There's
probably
some
way
to
work
with
Dinesh
to
kind
of
figure
out
how
much
of
the
fees
we
could
argue
should
be
shifted
internally.
You
know
what
I'm
saying
Prabhu
yeah
yeah
good
point:
Drew,
yes,
yeah
yeah!
R
We
will
certainly
do
that.
Yeah.
Well,
yeah
I
have
my
feelings.
We
go
forward
with
the
council
in
a
couple
months
we're
going
to
be
cobbling
together,
pennies,
which
is
actually
probably
smart
floors
that
open
any
other
questions
for
Dinesh.
R
Oh
yeah
go
ahead,
David!
Oh
I'm!
Sorry!
First,
thank
you
for
the
great
report.
This
is
I'm
sure
a
lot
of
work,
a
great
presentation,
Dinesh,
just
an
expectation
going
forward.
Do
you
expect
the
fees
or
expense
ratio
to
be
pretty
consistent?
Now?
What
we
see
today
is
going
to
be
pretty
consistent,
going
forward.
R
Yeah
I
would
say
for
management
fees.
It
probably
should
be
consistent,
maybe
slightly
higher,
as
the
private
markets
program
continues
to
build
up,
but
also
the
the
benefit
on
private
markets
is
that
we
have
been
allocating
towards
private
strategies
for
several
years
now
and
there's
always
a
J
curve
associated
with
those
private
Investments
paying
on
committed
Capital,
but
as
that,
Capital
continues
to
get
called,
and
we
mature
as
a
private
markets
program
that
ends
up
to
stabilize
so
yeah
I
would
expect
it
to
stay
somewhere
in
the
same
ballpark.
No
significant
increase
is
expected.
R
Good
I
think
you
were
gonna,
have
yeah
Indonesia
great
presentation
couple
of
questions.
One
is
I
thought
that
the
majority
of
the
passive
strategy
was
for
I
had
a
great
meeting
with
Christina
earlier
this
week,
but
it
was
in
the
U.S
public
Equity
Universe,
which
the
allocation
is
about
24.
How
does
that
compare
with
the.
Q
44
that
you're
showing
here
so
that
includes
other
asset
classes,
including
fixed
income,
where
there's
a
significant
component
towards
passive
strategies
as
well.
Okay,
so
the
the
difference
of
twenty
percent
is
coming
from
there
right.
So
obviously,
private
Equity
is
not
faster
right,
although
for
private
markets
we
do
have
the
passive
proxy
so.
R
There
is
a
small
allocation
towards
Russell
3000
within
the
private
markets
allocation.
Okay,
because
that
44
number
related
sticks
stick
out.
Okay
and
then
the
other
question
was
the
incentive
fees
being
so
large
last
year.
Is
that
maybe
this
is
a
naive
question,
but
is?
Is
that,
typically,
in
a
year
where
we
get
a
big
payoff
from
some
of
these
funds,
because
when
is
the
incentive
fee
actually
paid,
so
the
incentive
fees
are
actually
paid
to
managers
when
we
get
realizations
and
distributions
back?
R
What
we're
capturing
here
is
a
crude
incentive
fee,
so
it's
not
all
fees
that
were
actually
paid
so
just
because
valuations
increase.
In
some
cases
this
ratio
could
be
higher
and
very
well.
It
could
be
negative
in
future
years
if
returns
end
up
being
negative
and
that
incentive
allocation
ends
up
being
negated.
Q
Very
good
presentation:
the
question
on
management
fees.
You
said
they're
likely
to
stay
the
same.
Are
you
implying
that
that
there's
not
going
to
be
any
any
more
rotation
into
hedged
allocation
strategies,
or
is
that
not
changing
I
think
at
a
high
level?
It
really
depends
on
the
asset
allocation
if
there
were
changes
in
the
asset
allocation
to
increase
allocation
towards
Market
neutral
strategies
than
perhaps
it
could
be,
but
other
than
that,
there's
no,
no
expectation
within
the
implementation
of
the
asset
allocation,
as
is
to
increase
hedge
funds.
Q
Okay,
all
right,
all
right,
great
thanks,
sure
floors
still
open,
didn't
ask
this
is
the
absolute
first-rate
workout
cannot
compliment
you
highly
enough
and
as
we
head
into
this
season
of
incentive
compensation,
probably
six
nine
months
from
now
Peru
and
I
as
we've
talked
about
it,
this
presentation
and
level
of
detail
is
going
to
answer.
Clearly,
one
of
the
top
two
or
three
questions
the
city
council
is
going
to
ask
which
is
and
they're
not
crazy.
How
rich
are
you
making
people
off
our
dime
and
this?
This
presentation
absolutely
answers
that
question.
Q
Thanks,
Dinesh
your
wrap
up,
yeah!
That's
the
only
item
on
the
agenda
this
morning,
Mr
chairman,
so
I'm,
happy
to
take
any
questions.
Thank
you
Dinesh.
You
know.
One
of
my
goals
is
when
I
grow
up.
I
want
to
be
able
to
present
as
well
as
Dinesh.
Does
oh
well
sad?
Well,
it's
it's
a
booming
Centurion
voices.
What
does
it
any
questions
for
Prabhu
or
Dinesh.
Q
It's
we've
been
doing
this
for
about
90
minutes.
I've
got
about
five
minutes,
let's
say
a
break
until
five
minutes
after
the
hour,
so
seven
or
eight
minute
break
and
then
we'll
pick
up
new
business.
When
we
come
back
foreign.
P
P
Q
Q
Q
Q
Q
Q
Q
Hello,
can
you
guys
hear
me
sure
I
think
we
do
have
corn
trusty
Santos
is
still
away,
but
that's
fine.
We
can
get.
We
can
get
going,
he'll
be
back
in
a
minute
on
new
business.
Go
ahead,
Roberto!
Take
it
away.
Q
Thank
you.
Mr
chair,
so
I'll
be
trying
to
be
quick.
Just
a
couple
of
updates
from
the
staff
standpoint.
We
just
onboarded
two
new
benefits
senior
analysts
at
the
office
last
month,
Teresa
Mayer
came
to
us
for
the
health
position
from
prns
at
the
city
and
Han
van
who
is
on
the
patient.
Q
Side,
came
to
us
from
Dot
and
both
of
them
have
many
years
of
experience
with
the
city,
so
welcome
both
look
forward
to
working
with
them
and
we
also
kick
off
recruitment
activities
for
the
Recently
vacated
staff.
Specially
positioned
in
the
health
area.
Talking
about
health
I
wanted
to
remind
everyone
that
we
have
open
enrollment
for
it.
Q
It
lasts
from
November
1st
to
November
30th
and
that's
the
the
health
Open
Health
enrollment
for
the
retirees
we
actually
are
planning
to
have
an
in-person
health
fair
this
year,
the
first
one
in
a
few
years
because
of
covid-19,
which,
right
now
it
is
expected
to
take
place
on
November,
2nd
at
the
Laney
Lane
laninger
Center,
where
the
Federated
retirees
have
the
usual
meetings
from
10
a.m,
to
2
P.M
in
anticipation,
open,
enrollment,
open,
enrollment
packets
are
expected
to
be
mailed
out
later
this
month,
probably
closer
to
October
31st.
Q
So
the
members
have
been
in
hand
for
the
month
of
November
and
obviously,
in
addition
to
the
in-person
health,
fair
members
will
have
multiple
opportunities
to
attain
virtual
online
webinars
and,
of
course,
have
one-on-one
consultation
time
with
vendors,
in
addition
to
the
in-person
health,
fair
and,
lastly,
I
wanted
to
let
you
know
that
the
city
lifted
the
masking
Monday
back
in
September,
September
12th
and
the
the
CD
actually
is
closed.
This
coming
Monday
10,
you
know
surveillance
observance
of
indigenous
people's
Day
holiday.
Thank
you,
Mr,
chair,
happy
to
answer
any
questions.
F
Scotch
Scott
huge
I
believe
that
is,
it
is
yes,
hi,
Mr
Pena.
How
are
you
I'm
good?
How
are
you
thank
you
good.
Thank
you
for
having
me
here
today.
I
apologize
that
council
member
Foley
was
unable
to
make
it
today
she's
visiting
some
family.
She
hasn't
seen
in
quite.
Q
Some
time
so,
but
she
tells
me
that
he
said
for
me
to
send
everyone
her
best.
Also
in
addition
to
that,
Mr
Pena,
I
believe.
Q
The
council,
member,
along
with
council
member
Davis
I
I,
believe
you
had
a
meeting
to
discuss
the
joint
meeting
between
the
Retirement
Board
and
city
council.
Is
that
correct,
correct?
Thank
you
for
the
humanity
that
is
true
and,
and
that's
a
good
reminder.
The
initially
will
schedule
for
October
17.
I
Still
working
on
the
on
the
time
tentatively
I
think
we
thought
about
February
or
March,
but
I
think
the
goal
is
to
take
place
before
the
annual
budget
presentation
by
the
mayor
to
the
city.
F
So
I
believe
everyone
felt
it
was
in
in
the
retirement
board's
best
interest
to
meet
with
the
new
Council,
since
we
have
potentially
so
many
changes
occurring
in
in
January,
but
with
enough
time
to
be
able
to
get
any
last
minute
ideas
or
thoughts
into
the
incorporated
into
the
budget.
Does
that
sound
right
to
you?
That
sounds
that's
exactly
right!
Thank
you.
So
much
all
right
and
I
just
have
a
real
short
report.
I
I
apologize.
I
I
didn't
have
too
much
notice
here,
but
I
just
wanted
to.
Let
you
know
that
the
council
member
continues
to
Advocate
on
behalf
of
the
Retirement
Board
for
expanded
health
benefits,
including
mental
health
benefits,
to
be
added
to
to
your
package
there.
I
F
Costs
associated
with
those
and
currently
we're
sort
of
just
in
a
holding
pattern,
as
staff
is
going
out
and
doing
their
work
and
they'll
report
back
to
council
at
a
later
date.
But
it's
one
of
those
items
that
that
we
know
that
the
board
has
really
has
encouraged.
Q
F
Q
That
is
a
huge,
huge
compliment.
There
I
appreciate
that
yeah
all
right
on
time
to
4C
CIO
position
can
I
just
turn
that
over
to
U.S
far,
can
you
handle
that
yeah?
Thank
you
drew
absolutely
sure
yeah.
So
you
know
in
the
last
board
meeting
this
board
had
suggested.
F
I
I
Q
Terms
of
the
performance
of
that
fund
as
a
compromise,
so
this
is
the
way
I
read
it.
They
suggested,
since
we
were
at
four
to
five
percent
and
they
were
at
a
higher
number.
That's
seven
percent
probably
made
sense
and
that's
what
they
approved,
and
my
recommendation
is
that
this
board
adopts
that
and
approves
the
seven
percent.
Q
Do
you
want
to
make
that
as
a
motion
as
far
yes,
I'll
make
a
motion
that
the
adopt
a
seven
percent
increase
in
CIO?
Second.
G
Got
a
motion
bias
for
a
second
by
dick
any
comments,
questions
before
we
vote.
We
discussed
this.
Obviously,
at
some
length,
closed
session,
God
Andrew
you
go
yeah,
you
know,
I
will
I
just
want
to
make
a
few
comments.
I,
you
know
I
support
the
seven
percent.
I
think
that's
a
you
know
it's
a
it's
good
in
between
number.
You
know
from
what
Federer
is
thinking
about
and
what
we
were
thinking
about.
Q
And
revisit
the
cortex
work
in
regards
to
trying
to
more
solidify
how
we
come
up
with
inappropriate
MPP,
you
know
compensation
award,
you
know
it
as
you
can.
As
you
see,
there
was
a
difference
between
the
Federated
and
police
and
fire.
You
know
better.
We
already
want
to
go
10
or
higher.
Q
G
G
You
know
in
in
future
future
years,
so
I
hope
the
JPC
would
revisit
what
we
did
with
cortex
and
I
know.
This
was
the
year
where
we
said
that
we
would
implement
the
cortex
policies
and
make
changes.
E
As
we
go,
this
is
like
a
trial
run
and
so
I
think
this
is
an
area
that
needs
to
be
Revisited
just
so
it
could
be,
go
a
little
bit
more
smoother
and
you
know
we
could
have
you
know
specific
data
points.
You
know
if
someone
achieves
you
know
this
data
point
it
equals
to
X
percent
of
Merit
increase
type
of
thing.
So
that's
my
only
comment
but
do
support
the
seven
percent.
Thank
you
yeah.
Let
me
let
me
take
you.
Q
Back
on
that,
you
know
it
feels
the
same
way
to
do
Andrew.
There
need
to
be
two
systems
here
and
we're
constrained
by
the
city
system
and
I
think,
but
we
need
to
tighten
that
up
we'll
use
cortex.
We
said
we
wanted
to
be
the
best
performance
review
system
in
the
city
and
regular
stuff
lots
of
360
Degrees
stuff,
but
there's
a
second
piece
incentive
compensation
and
I
I
get
the
feeling
you're
writing
you're
sort
of
like
desperately
trying
to
squeeze
the
round
Peg
of
the
city.
Q
Compositions
I
mean
the
square
hole
of
the
incentive
composition.
So
let
me
be
on
the
record
now
so
probability
staff
anybody
watching
this.
You
know
when
the
dinosaurs
reappear,
they
generated
hundreds
of
millions
of
dollars
in
our
performance.
What
do
I
mean
by
that
I
mean
a
similar
system
made
hundreds
of
millions
of
dollars
less
than
we
made
and
we're
talking
at
Sunita
mentioned.
C
P
Q
100
cortex
has
shown
us
the
way,
but
I
also
think
we
need
to
introduce
this
incentive
competition
system,
hey
real,
quick
Harvey.
You
want
to
talk
to
ashwar
about
adding
that
to
his
motion.
Q
You
know
I'm,
sorry
about
adding
what
you
you
just
sent
me
a
text
saying
what
was
it
that
need
to
be
added
Harley
to
to
match
and
be
consistent
with
the
Federated
motion
that
they
adopted
at
their
last
meeting?
The
motion
here
should
not
only
include
the
seven
percent
Merit
raised,
but
five
additional
executive
leave
days
yeah
as
the
maker
of
the
motion.
As
far
as
you
accept
that
Amendment
yes,
I
accept
the
amendment.
Dick
is
the
second
Earth
motion.
Do
you
accept
that
Amendment?
Yes,
I,
do
great.
Thank
you.
F
The
vote:
Andrew
aye
David,
Kwan,
aye,
Sunita,
hi
Howard;
yes,
eshvar,
hi,
Dick,
yes,
Franco,
hi,
Dave,
Wilson,
hi,.
Q
And
chair
lands
I
vote
I
as
well,
keep
doing
good
work
like
that
as
far
pretty
soon
somebody's
going
to
Peg
you
to
be
chairman
watch
out
when
that
Arrow
Comes
Your
Way
4D.
Oh
yes,
probably
you
Roberto
once
you
take
4D
so
actually
4D
is
a
city
quest
to
drop
HealthCare
coverage
for
affected
members
under
the
city
Medicare
and
under
pursuant.
Q
Who
work
closely
with
make
touching
from
the
you
know,
General
Council,.
R
From
for
the
board,
so
with
that
alternator
over
to
Sandra
Sandra,
thank
you
Roberto
good
morning,
everybody
I
think
maytech
was
going
to
kick
this
off
maytech.
Is
that
correct
yeah?
That's
right!
So
let
me
go
ahead
and
share
my
screen
I'm,
going
to
walk
you
guys
through
the
provisions
of
the
San
Jose
Municipal
Code
at
issue,
so
you
can
get
a
sense
of
what
the
the
code
says
and
then
to
frame
the
issue
in
the
past
today,
as
well
as
our
recommendations.
G
Do
that?
No
that's.
R
P
You
have
have
to
meet
certain
requirements
as
specified
in
the
Munich
code.
One
of
that
one
of
those
requirements
for
people
who
are
eligible
for
Medicare
is
specified
in
subdivision
M,
which
provides
here
effective,
March,
31st,
2017,
a
member
or
dependent
and
or
Survivor
who
is
eligible
for
retiree
health
benefits.
In
this
plan.
C
Individual's
initial
enrollment
period
under
the
federal
rules,
that's
just
enrolled
in
Medicare.
Additionally,
the
plan
member
and
or
the
dependent
and
or
the
Survivor
who
is
eligible
for
Medicare
shall
also
enroll
in
the
Medicare
Plan
provided
by
the
city
and
assign
their
Medicare
benefits
to
the
Medicare
plan.
If
the
health
health
coverage
provider
requires
it
so,
under
the
Medicare
mandate,
there's
an
initial
compliance
requirement
that
one
during
your
initial
enrollment
period.
P
Meaning
within
the
periods
specified
under
federal
law,
for
you
to
enroll
into
Medicare
once
eligible
you
a
have
to
first
enroll
in
it
and
B.
You
have
a
certain
amount
of
time
to
assign
your
benefits
to
the
health
care
provider
under
contract
with
the
city
that
is
called
the
Medicare
mandate,
so
failure
to
meet
the
Medicare
mandate
again.
That
means
one
enrolling
during
your
initial
enrollment
period
and
two
assigning
your
Medicare
coverage
to
the
health
care
provider
within
time
specified,
and
here
the
provisionalization.
Q
So
the
provision
here
for
the
dropping,
highlighted
here,
I'll,
read
it
out
to
the
board
and
for
the
record,
if
a
member
fails
to
meet
the
requirements
to
the
fourth
above
within
the
members
or
dependents,
or
survivors
initial
enrollment
period
and
here's
the
period
that
allows
you
to
assign
this
is
the
specified
period
for
the
Medicare
assignment,
which.
P
Begins
three
months
before
the
members
and
or
the
the
effective
members
or
Independence
or
survivors,
60th
birthday
or
other
Medicare
eligible
event
or
and
concludes
four
months
after
the
plan,
member
and
or
dependents
and
or
Survivor
65th.
Q
Birthday
or
other
event
providing
eligibility
for
enrollment
in
Medicare,
again
a
Medicare
eligible
triggering
event.
The
plan
shall
this
is
the
important
part
here.
The
plan
shall
cease
to
provide
retiree
health
care
benefits
until
the
plan
member
or
the
dependent
or
Survivor
completes
such
requirements.
So
you
have
to
enroll
in
Medicare
and
assign
your
benefit
to
maintain
your
coverage.
E
In
the
retiree
health
care
benefits,
beginning
in
the
first
day,
falling
of
the
following
month
after
such
requirements
have
been
completed
now
to
re-enroll
into
Medicare.
There
is
a
open
enrollment
period
that
is
only
open.
I.
Believe
Sandra
can
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong
on
this,
like
once
a
year
from
January
to
March
and
that's
the
window
of
time
that
you're
allowed
to
re-enroll.
So
if
you
fall
out
of
enrollment,
you
can't
re-enroll
until
there's
that
federally
provided
Medicare
window
to
reinvolve.
E
Now
as
you'll
see
here
in
this
Medicare
mandate,
it
only
talks
about
the
initial
compliance
where
it
says
a
plan
ceases.
Q
To
provide
retiree
health
care
benefits
until
the
plan
member
completes
such
requirements
as
specified
above
and
the
requirements
that
we
had
specified
above
are
two-fold
one
that
you
initially
enrolled
during
your
initial
enrollment
period
and
two
that
you
decide
within
the
periods
classified
here,
which
is
four
months
after
your
Medicare
eligible
will
be
date.
Q
What
it
doesn't
do
is
talk
about
what
happens
to
a
member
if
they
lose
Medicare
coverage
after
they've
done
the
initial
compliance.
So
this
is
the
area
that
we're
going
to
be
talking
about
today
for
the
purposes
of
our
memo,
so
I
I
do
see
a
hand
up
from
Preston
Santos.
So
before
I
go
on
I
wanted
to
see
what,
if
I,
can
answer
your
question.
Q
Drew,
do
you
hear
me?
Okay,
I'm,
sorry,
yep!
No,
we
got
you
now
dick
yeah.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
May
text
we're
trying
to
explain
that
I
think
race
storms
is
on
the
Air
2,
trying
to
probably
get
through
for.
E
Q
It
sounds
like
we
are,
in
other
words,
if
they
can't
do
it
eventually,
they'll
be
enrolled
back
once
they
go
through
the
process.
That's
what
it
sounds
like
so
for
this
particular
population.
When
we
get
to
the
recommendation
sections.
Yes,
we
are
going
to
give
the
effective
members
that
are
subject
to
be
dropped
here,
a
grace
period
to
allow
them
to
cure.
So
the
population
that
we're
talking
about
here
is
that
there
are
a
population
of
individuals
who
have
lost
Medicare
coverage
after
they.
They
had
initially
complied
so
initially.
When.
F
Down
the
line
they
lost
Medicare
coverage,
and
so
they
are
now
shifted
to
so
for
the
purposes
of
the
statute,
they've
complied
and
so
there's
no
specific
provision
that
requires
us
to
drop
them.
The
only
specific
provision
in
the
code,
that's
mandates
the
board.
Q
In
the
plan
to
drop
them
is
if
they
don't
meet
that
initial
compliance.
Now,
however,
although
not
specifically
specified
in
the
statute
for
this
particular
population,
if
we
were
to
allow
a
member
who
initially
complied
with
the
Medicare
mandate
and
some
ultimately
lost
coverage,
that
would
frustrate
the
purpose
of
the
statute,
the
statute
in
implicitly
implies
that
a
member
must
maintain
Medicare
coverage
or
them
to
Avail
themselves
to
the
city
plan.
Q
For
this
reason,
the
city
passed
this
proposal
and
Municipal
provision,
because
Medicare
offsets
some
of
the
city's
costs
for
providing
benefit
to
that
member.
So
that
is
why
they
created
this
initial
enrollment
in
compliance,
our
initial
compliance
requirement
of
enrolling
and
assigning
now,
if
they
fall
out
of
compliance
that
would
undermine
the
purpose
of
the
statute.
The
cost
saving
measure
that
the
city
had
initially
passed
a
statute
for
so
base.
Q
We've
been
working
with
the
city
on
this,
noting
that
there's
a
some
ambiguity
in
the
statute
and
the
city
has
stated
their
intent
during
our
negotiations
with
them.
That
has
always
been
the
city's
intent
that
these
members
stay
enrolled
for
the
purposes
that
I
had
just
mentioned,
that
it
would
frustrate
this
purpose
of
the
statute.
Q
The
reason
why
we
have
the
statute
is
cost
saving
measure
for
the
city
for
those
who
are
Medicare
eligible,
and
so
we've
worked
with
them
to
see
what
we
can
do
and
so
a
lot
of
our
recommendations
which
we'll
get
back
to
after
Sandra,
presents
you
the
factual
situation
regarding
how
many
members
are
affected
and
whatnot
we'll
discuss
why
we
are
providing
the
recommendations
we
are,
and
we
also
before
we
take
a
action
on
the
recommendation.
Q
We
do
have
Cheryl
Parkman
from
oer
and
we
also
have
the
city's
attorney's
representative
Kevin
Fisher
who's.
Even
we
have
we'll
see
the
attorneys
into
select
to
weigh
enormous
abuse
perspectives,
so
Sandra.
F
A
A
I
can
reach
out
to
staff
and
if
I
can
get
that,
because
I'd
be
real
curious
to
see
what
happens
to
those
people
when.
Q
One
of
which
is
a
survivor.
How
have
we
reached
out
to
them
to.
A
Let
them
know
what's
going
on.
One
of
the
issues
I
have
is
a
lot
of
times,
I
hate
to
say
it.
Retirees
get
something
from
the
city
and
it
goes
to
the
round
file.
It's
not
right,
but
that's
what
happens.
Do
we
have
phone
number
contacts
and
is
it
possible
for
me
to
get
a
list
of
the
people,
so
I
can
make
contact,
say:
hey
you're
you're
in
some
situation
here
that
they
need
to
rectify
and
do
we
know
how
they
lost
their
Medicare
standing
their
status.
A
So
let
me
answer
your
questions.
I
think
you
have
three
questions.
I'll
answer
them
one
by
one.
So
the
first
question
regarding
Anthem
and
what
happens
after
a
member
has
been
dropped
by
Anthem.
What
happens
then?
They,
the
member
and
the
qualifying
defendant,
have
the
ability
to
re-enroll
in
their
benefits,
once
they're
eligible
to
do
that,
and
that
would
be
the
federal
Medicare
open,
enrollment
period
from
January
to
March.
A
In
the
interim
period
they
will
not
have
coverage
under
the
city
plan.
They
wouldn't
be
out
on
their
own
for
the
anthem
population,
so
that
and
I
believe.
Your
second
question,
then,
was
related
to
and
correct
me
if
I'm
misstating,
your
question
is
that
have
we
provided
notice
to
these
individuals
under
Kaiser
the
affected
members
that
they
may
be
subject
to
drug?
No,
we
have
not
yet
reached
out
to
them.
A
That's
part
of
our
recommendation
that
we
reach
out
to
them,
provide
them
notice
and
also
work
with
them
and
help
them
cure
so
that
they
can
come
into
compliance
and
I.
Think.
Your
third
question
was
whether
or
not
we
know
why
these
members
have
lost
Medicare
coverage.
We
do
not
have
that
information.
We
do
not
track
Medicare
coverage
for
these
particular
members.
A
Kaiser
tracks
it
that's
information
that
we
don't
have
readily
available,
but
a
very
likely
possibility
is
that,
from
the
reason
why
they
lost
coverage
is
that
they
they
were
not
able
to
pay
their
their
share
of
the
Medicare
costs
for
to
maintain
coverage.
A
To
get
Social
Security
would
you
then
help
cover
their
cost
on
their
Medicare?
So
they
have
to
pay
it
out
of
pocket
and
maybe
they
miss
payments
that
could
be
a
possible.
That's
quite
a
possibility.
I,
don't
know
for
these
down
what
each
and
every
one
of
their
issues
were,
but
that
that
is
a
possibility.
A
So
with
that,
if
you
have
any
other
questions,
if
not
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
Ms
Casiano
can
I
get
a
copy
of
the
members
that
are
affected
contact,
so
I
can
try
and
help
that
information
I
cannot
provide.
To.
You
is
confidence.
A
You
will
be
working
with
ORS
staff
in
oer
to
make
sure
these
people
get
their
notice
subject
to
the
board's
Direction.
The
other
question
to
have
in
regards
to
this-
let's
say
push
comes
to
shove.
It
because
you're
talking
about
Kaiser's,
putting
him
back
on
the
commercial
plan
which
they're
not
supposed
to
do.
A
That's
an
issue
to
bring
up
with
the
city
council,
we're
only
here
today
to
address
this
affected
population
that
may
be
subject
to
drop
any
issues
regarding
the
contract
of
Kaiser,
the
scope
of
Provisions,
that's
within
the
purview
of
the
city
council.
A
Mr
chair
dick
Santos
can
can't
we
make
a
request
that
those
people
who
are
retirees
that
have
been
dropped,
at
least
we
can
send
you
folks,
our
Administration
can
send
them
a
member
and
say
contact
your
retiree
president
for
assistance
can
connect.
You
can
certainly
do
that
yeah.
That
would
be
helpful.
Thank
God
for
the
direction
so
before
I
I'll
make
a
note
of
that.
Thank
you.
Trustee
Santos,
with
that
I'll
turn
it
over
to
miss
Casiano
the
benefit
division
manager.
A
A
Thank
you,
okay,
thank
you,
may
check
and
I
will
say
we're
happy
to
partner
in
any
way
we
can
with
communicating
with
these
people.
We
we
do
not
only
send
letters
to
them,
but
we
do
call
them
email
and
reach
out
in
every
way.
We
can
to
make
sure
these
members
continue
their
questions
very
appreciative.
Thank
you.
Yes,
so
just
explaining
some
of
the
details,
we
do
have
two
Healthcare
Providers.
As
you
know,
Anthem
and
Kaiser
Anthem
and
Kaiser
do
operate
differently
for
the
members
who
are
Medicare
eligible
for
Anthem.
A
If
a
member
does
not
enroll
in
a
and
assigned
to
Medicare
or
they
do
not
stay
enrolled
in
Medicare
Anthem
will
drop
their
coverage
automatically
and
just
communicating
with
my
staff.
Here
we
do
get
notifications
when
that
happens
from
on
a
monthly
report.
A
Up
with
those
members,
if
that
does
happen,
or
we
will
start
doing
that
for
sure,
Kaiser
does
not
drop
the
numbers
coverage
and
instead
transfers
them
to
a
special
exception
group
at
a
high
cost
to
the
city.
The
effective
members
that
issue
here
are
the
members
who
initially
complied
with
the
Medicare
mandate,
but
then
lost
their
coverage.
We
discovered
this
population
of
affected
members
when
the
city
and
ORS
began
working
together
to
enforce
the
Medicare
mandate
earlier
this
year.
A
The
city,
as
me,
Tech
mentioned,
has
been
clear
that
it
intended
that
the
Medicare
mandate
would
extend
to
this
affected
population
and
have
asked
us
to
drop
their
coverage.
You
know
I
will
note
that
the
city
is
not
in
any
way
so
that
we
should
drop
them
without
going
through
a
due
process
of
giving
them
a
chance
to
enroll
in
Medicare,
as
noted
in
the
memo,
we
currently
have
six
police
and
fire
members
who,
in
this
group,
who
initially
enrolled
in
Medicare
but
then
subsequently
lost
their
coverage
and
they
continue.
A
All
six
of
them
continue
to
be
covered
under
the
Kaiser
plan
at
a
fairly
high
cost
to
the
city,
and
our
plan,
as
mentioned
earlier,
is
to
reach
out
them
proactively.
There's
a
general
there's.
Numerous
enrollment
periods
with
Medicare,
the
general
enrollment
period
as
maytec
mentions,
runs
from
January
through
March,
so
we
will
be
reaching
out
to
them
after
this
memo.
A
You
know
after
we
get
direction
from
the
board
on
this
memo
reaching
out
to
them,
so
that
they
can
begin
to
plan
to
reach
out
to
Medicare
schedule
their
appointments
get
enrolled
because
they
do
need
to
contact
Medicare
within
that
three-month
period
during
the
general
enrollment
period,
and
then
we
will
make
sure
that
that.
C
We
have
Medicare
workshops
now
we're
offering
to
members
quarterly
that
they
are
informed
about
when
those
are.
We
will
walk
them
through
the
process
and
make
sure
they
get
enrolled
and
without
any
lapses
in
coverage.
C
So
with
that
I
think
that's
all
I
had
to
talk
about
yeah.
This
is
Dick
Santos
to
Maytag
and
Sandra.
Thank
you
so
much
for
bend
over
backwards,
trying
to
help
retirees
out
in
this
tough
situation.
Thank
you,
so
much
and,
and
so
now,
I'm
gonna.
What
I'm
going
to
do
is
go
through
the
recommendations
that
we
are
putting
before
this
board
to
adopt
by
emotion
so
stated
in
the
memorandum
and
I'll
read
them
one
by
one.
C
So
if
everyone's
on
the
same
page
one,
the
first
is
that
we
would
like
the
board
to
acknowledge
that
the
plan
is
obligated
to
seize
providing
retiree
health
benefits
to
the
members
for
Medicare
eligible
who
have
not
initially
enrolled
in
Medicare
and
have
not
assigned
Medicare
benefits
to
the
healthcare
insurance
provided
by
the
city
under
the
Medicare
mandate
and.
A
L
A
Point
goes
to
the
population
we're
discussing
here
is
where
someone
initially
complied
but
lost
coverage.
Medicare
coverage
so
acknowledge
that
there's
a
population
of
retired
members
who
initially
complied
with
the
Medicare
enrollment
and
signed
assignment
requirements
under
the
meaning
code,
but
who
subsequently
lost
Medicare
coverage
and
who
have
retiree
health
care
benefits
provided
under
by
Kaiser
under
the
city's
contract
with
Kaiser.
A
Another
thing
to
acknowledge
is
that
the
city's
stated
intent
that
retired
members
maintain
Medicare
coverage
in
order
to
maintain
retiree
health
benefits
in
the
city
provided
health
care
plan,
and
the
city
has
asked
us
the
plan
to
drop
Health
Care
coverage
for
this
population
of
retired
members,
who
initially
complied
with
Medicare
enrollments
and
assignment
requirements
that
who
subsequently
lost
Medicare
coverage.
This
would
be
effective.
Member.
C
Population
and
here's
the
part
that
goes
to
trustee
Sanchez
and
race,
Mr
Storm's
comments.
A
This
is
where
we
would
ask
the
board
for
direct
approved
direction
for
staff,
to
provide
notice
to
the
effective
members
that
they
must
be
continuously
enrolled
in
Medicare,
to
maintain
coverage
in
a
city
plan
and
to
allow
these
members
an
opportunity
to
cure
their
loss
of
Medicare
coverage
at
the
next
Medicare
open
enrollment
period.
Again
that's
from
January
to
March
of
next
year
and
to
advise
these
members
that
if
they
do
not
do
so,
the
plan
will
have
to
drop
them
from
the
city
provided
retiree
Healthcare
package.
A
Another
recommendation
to
the
board
a
subject
is
that
subject
to
support
action
is
to
recommend
to
the
city
council
that,
at
the
end
of
the
term
of
the
Kaiser
contract
in
December
2023,
if
the
parties,
meaning
the
city
in
Kaiser,
seek
to
renew
the
contract
that
they
consider
adding
a
provision
that
requires
Kaiser
to
drop
Health
Care
coverage
for
Medicare
eligible
members
who
do
not
have
the
Medicare
coverage
throughout,
and
so
this
would
essentially
bring
the
Kaiser
contract
into
the
same
terms
of
the
anthem.
F
F
We
had
no
idea
that
these
people
were
on
that
load
and
our
last
recommendation
would
be
for
the
board
to
recommend
to
the
city
council
that
they
consider
adding
language
to
the
municipal
code
provision
to
make
clear
the
plan's
obligation
deceased,
providing
health
care
benefits
to
retirees
for
Medicare
eligible
who
who
are
not
enrolled
in
Medicare
continuously
after
eligibility
and
who
do
not
assign
Medicare
benefits
to
the
Health
Care
Program
provided
by
the
city
that
they
have
been
elected.
A
The
board
for
adoption
by
motion
with
that
I
see
two
hands
up.
First,
I
I,
think
Ray
Mr
Storm's
hand
went
up
first,
yes,
I'm,
sorry,
I
lost
connection
here
on
everything.
I
would
like
to
add
when
you
go
to
contact
them
not
only
by
mail
Maybe
by
email,
also,
and
if
you
have
their
phone
number,
please
try
all
three
methods,
like
I,
said
a
lot
of
times.
They
round
file
things
when
it
comes
from
the
city,
it's
not
right,
but
it's
what
they
do,
I'm
just
trying
to
help.
A
And
then
I
believe
trustee
Wilson,
you
had
her
hand
up,
or
maybe
you
took
it
down-
I
took
it
down.
It
was
the
same
thing
that
Ray
mentioned
just
that
we
try
to
aggressively
get
in
touch
with
these
retirees
and
Maytag.
Maybe
I
just
heard
back
from
my
staff,
with
a
little
more
information
on
Anthem
so
for
our
health
manager,
so
both
Anthem
and
our
office
contacts.
F
When
we
see
somebody
has
dropped
their
Medicare
coverage
through
Anthem,
we
do
Reach
Out
Anthem
and
this
and
ORS
reaches
out,
and
she
also
says
that
her
experience
has
been
typically
it's
not
because
they
stop
paying
Medicare
or
disenrolling
Medicare.
It's
that
they
assign
their
benefits
to
another
medicare
carrier.
That's
not
through
us.
F
I
P
I
Work
with
staff
I
can
see
scenarios
multiple
scenarios
where
someone,
for
example,
my
email
got
hacked
and
ATT
shut
it
down.
My
check
goes
into
my
bank
account.
I
moved
to
Idaho
I
would
not
really
have
any
contact
with
the
city
and
no
need
to
do
a
change
of
address
or
I.
Can
somebody
just
not
doing
it
I
pass
away?
You
don't
have
my
wife's
contact
information.
I
I
just
don't
know
if
there's
something
that
we
can
do
on
the
website
that
stays
up
permanently
and
maybe
a
periodic
reminder
in
the
newsletter
to
make
sure
that
we
advise
people
of
the
scenarios,
and
let
me
ask
let
me
jump
in
on
that
idea.
Franco.
Let
me
let
me
ask
you
a
question:
Maytag,
hey.
Can
a
trustee
know
the
name
of
these
people
we're
inside
the
tent
right?
I
I
S
I
F
Anthem
when
they
get
dropped,
ORS
gets.
A
Notified
and
ORS
and
staff
are
then
reaching
out.
You
know
via
communication
could
be
email
phone,
you
know
mail
and
to
rectify
it.
The
only
reason
we're
here
today
is
because
Kaiser
has
their
models
a
little
bit
different
and
they
put
you
in
a
different
category
and
so
we've
and
so
they've
those
members
never
lost
their
their
coverage.
Okay
and
so
so
I
think
the
system
is
not.
We
don't
have
to
reinvent
the
system,
it
seems
like
the
system
is
working
well
and
what
staff
is
doing.
A
With
what
Ray
storm
has
provided
in
regards
to
it,
reiterating
you
know,
let's
make
sure
we
communicate
across.
O
All
forms
of
communication
thanks,
hey
Andrew,
since
you're
comfortable
with
it
do
you
want
to
move
to
accept
it?
Well,
actually,
I
do
want
to
provide
an
opportunity
for
all
oer
or
on
the
city
attorney's
office
if
they
want
to
make
any
comments.
Yeah
the
floors
open
folks
jump
in
Sandra,
three
storms.
Q
O
Number
contact
means
I.
May
we
try
and
get
our
people
to
update
their
stuff
in
our
database
as
often
as
we
can,
and
so,
if
that
comes
to
push
coming
to
tell
me
you
you,
ain't,
no
or
no
contact,
call
me
I'll,
look
it
up
and
see
if
I
can
help
we'll
do,
and
certainly
we
can.
You
know
not
tell
you
why
we're
asking
and
just
say
we're
having
trouble
with
contacting
a
member
exactly
keep
it
big.
That's
fine
and
I'll
look
up
the
information
to
see
if
I
can
help.
P
Know
I
believe
we're
we're
asked
here
today
the
city's
ass
here
today
because
of
the
two
recommendations,
if
I
don't
know,
if
it's
Linda
or
or
Michelle
could
scroll
down
to
the
to
the
next
page
to
see
the
two
recommendations
that
are
up
for
I
believe
actual
besides
directing
staff
to
provide,
you
know
more
information
to
to
the
retirees,
and
it
is
something
that
we've
worked
very
closely
with
Sandra
and
her
team
on
and
we're
in
complete
agreement
about,
contacting
those
retirees
and
making
sure
we
do
everything
we
can
to
inform
them
about
this
necessary
process.
P
What
I'm
here
to
talk
about
today
are
the
two
recommendations
at
the
end
regarding
recommending
to
city
council
just
to
provide
the
city's
perspective
that
that
Council
Chen
has
has
accurately
discussed
already
in
terms
of
recommending.
You
know,
city
council,
to
you,
know,
look
at
that
that
contract
language
with
Kaiser
you
know,
that's
definitely
something
that
if
the
board
feels
is
necessary,
they
can
do
you
know
all
of
our
contract.
Negotiations
are
confidential
with
our
with
our
vendors
and
so
you're.
P
Absolutely
able
to
recommend
that
you
know
I
would
just
you
know
caution.
We
don't,
we
would
work
through,
of
course,
also
the
city's
benefits
consultant
to
see.
If
that
is
something
that
would
be
beneficial
to
us
to
do
so,
you
know:
that's,
that's
the
city's
perspective
on
that
I
will
say
the
city's
perspective
on
the
second
recommendation
is
that
we
believe
that
the
language
does
not
need
to
be
changed
in
the
municipal
code.
It
is
implicit.
It
is
inherent
that
someone
needs
to
maintain
coverage
in
in
Medicare.
P
In
order
to
do
so-
and
that
is
the
you
know,
the
the
the
prerogative
of
the
city
to
interpret
its
own
municipal
code
and
we've
been
very
clear
that
that
is
our
intent,
and
so
it
does
not.
You
know.
We
don't
think
that
a
municipal
code
is
changes
needed,
because
it's
something
that
we've
all
talked
about
here
is
something
that
we
would
we
would
just
do
if
somebody
is
is
dropping
coverage
and,
of
course,
we
would
provide
them
with
any
sort
of
necessary
Communication
in
order
to
get
back
on
it
and
re-enroll.
P
Q
P
The
municipal
code
is
done,
so
we
are
not
trying
to
negotiate
between
the
city
and
the
retirement
boards
about
how
we
interpret
our
own
Municipal
Code.
So
we
would
just
like
to
move
forward
with
the
intent
that,
if
somebody
is
in
Medicare
and
then
for
whatever
reason,
they
assign
their
coverage
to
someone
over
other
than
ORS
that
we
drop
them
as
the
municipal
code
States
at
this
time.
P
So
we
don't
we,
you
know
you
can
recommend
to
city
council
to
change
it,
but
it
is
not
the
city's
recommendation
to
change
the
municipal
code
and
we
should
just
continue
to
act
as
as
we
intend
to
to
drop
people
from
coverage.
Should
they
reassign.
You
know
if
some,
if
a
retiree
wants
to
argue
about
it,
we
can
show
them
this
me
needing
to
say
that
this
is
the
intent,
the
communications
that
have
gone
back
and
forth.
P
You
know
race,
storms
is
here,
trustee
Wilson
is
here
and
and
trustee
Vado
and
trustee
Santos
and
trustee
Gardner.
That
communication
can
go
out,
get
in
Medicare
stay
in
Medicare
and
you
won't
get
dropped
from
your
coverage.
P
So
that's
that's
our
prerogative
on
that
particular
issue
and
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions
on
that
floor's
still
up
and
jump
in
so
I
have
a
question
actually
from
this
question
so
say
we
given
the
current
language
under
the
San
Jose
Municipal
Code,
and
we
do
hear
the
city's
intent
that
does
not
reflected,
especially
in
in
real
Community
code,
and
we
do
drop
someone's
coverage
and
they
challenge
it.
But
the
city
then
be
willing
to
indemnify
the
board
and
we
will
plan
for
dropping
them
based
on
the
city's
stated
intent.
P
I
think
that's
probably
a
question
for
for
Kevin
in
terms
of
indemnification.
Oer
can
indemnify
anybody,
so
that
would
be
a
question.
F
For
the
city
attorney's
office
hi,
this
is
Kevin
Fisher
assistant,
City
attorney.
That's
not
really
a
question
where
we're
going
to
answer
in
this
in
this
public
meeting.
Okay!
Well!
For
for
what
it's
worth!
You
know
these
two
alternative
recommendations
that
Cheryl
had
mentioned.
One
changing
the
contract
terms
to
align
with
what
Anthem
provides
are
too
alternative
to
each
other,
because
one
if
the
city
does
align
their
practice
for
Kaiser
with
what
happens
with
Anthem.
Q
And
so
they
would
just
go
in
line
with
what
we
currently
do
with
Anthem
as
an
alternative.
If
that
language
is
not
there,
we
will
then
stick
with
our
recommendation
that
the
media
code
would
be
changed
to
make
it
clear
that
they
have
to
be
continuously
enrolled.
We
understand
the
city's
position
and
to
extent
you
can
provide
that
in
writing.
Once
the
board
has
taken
action
and
what
it
decides
to
do
here
and
which
of
these
recommendations
they're
going
to
accept,
we
can
cross
that
bridge
at
that
point.
Q
I
see
a
hand
up
from
my
colleague,
Mr
liaman.
Q
Q
The
city
will
adopt
various
rules
and
regulations
that
in
ordinances
that
have
to
be
implemented
by
this
board
and
in
practice
over
time
situations
arrive
arise
that
the
board
has
to
Grapple
with,
and
it
looks
to
its
governing
ordinances
to
see
how
we
should
deal
with
those,
and
sometimes
we
bind
under
the
circumstances
that
maybe
the
ordinance
doesn't
exactly
cover
the
situation,
and
we
need
some
clarity
in
how
to
administer
the
plan,
because
this
is
essentially
our
play
part
of
our
planned
document
and
I.
Think
that's.
Q
A
The
city
council
wants
to
adopt
a
change
to
the
ordinance,
which
is
our
planned
document.
They
come
and
seek
our
advice
and
recommendations
on
how
that
would
be
implemented.
This
is
the
mirror
image
of
that
process,
where
we've
come
up
with
a
situation
that
we
think
it
might
be
helpful
for
us
to
be
able
to
have
more
clarity
in
the
direction
in
our
planned
document
that
we're
seeking
so
I.
A
As
part
of
that
collaborative
relationship
that
we
have
with
the
city
and-
and
it
would
help
clarify
things
from
our
Ford's
point
of
view-
to
make
this
recommendation
and
see
if
we
can
tighten
up
that
language
so
that
avoids
any
controversy
in
the
future.
Well,
I
I
would
suggest
to
the
board
that
both
of
these
recommendations
are
appropriate
for
this
board
to
make
in
terms
of
feedback
under
its
implementation
and
administration
play
undocumented
that
the
city
has
given
to
us
to
put
into
effect
and
Harvey.
A
I
absolutely
agree
that
we
have
a
very,
very
wonderful
collaborative
relationship
with
ORS
staff
and
with
you
and
with
with
Council
chin
and
anytime.
There
are
other
questions
about
our
sometimes
very
complicatedly,
written
Municipal
Code.
You
know
my
office
has
asked
for
clarity
and
we
provide
that
without
having
to
go
through
a
municipal
code
change.
So
you
know
wherever
I
can
provide
Clarity
on
things
like
you
know,
the
alternative
pension
reform
framework
ordinances
I've
done
so
without
having
to
go
through
munico
change,
so
I
just
want
to
say.
Q
That,
if
you
need
something
in
writing
from
us
that
clarifies
our
intent,
we're
happy
to
do
so,
but
I
also
understand
that
it
is
the
board's
prerogative
to
make
recommendations
where
they
see
fit.
So
if
that
is
the
that
is
the
case,
then
you
know.
That
is
what
will
be
the
board's.
Will
Cheryl
I
got
a
question
for
you
in
regards
to
the
first
recommendation
about
adding
language
you
know
to
Kaiser.
How
often
do
you.
A
A
Is
that
a
yearly
thing
or
is
it
you
do
a
five-year
contract
type
of
thing?
It
just
depends
on
what
the
city's
you
know.
If
we're
going
to
amend
a
contract,
maybe
we
just
do
a
contract
Amendment,
it
depends
I.
Think
in
in
here.
As
you
can
see,
our
next
expiration
date
is
December,
2023
and
I.
Think
the
last
time
we
negotiated
with
them
with
either
20
20
or
2021.
So
it's
they're
definitely
multi-year
deals.
A
So
when
these
come
up,
we
do
rfps
for
medical
service
and
we
invite
the
employee
groups
in
order
to
participate
on
that,
but
I'm
not
sure
if
in
2023
we'll
be
doing
an
RFP
or
we'll
be
doing
an
extension.
That's
something
that
I'm
not
prepared
to
to
say,
but
I
do
understand
that
if
it
is
a
recommendation
to.
A
That
we
can,
we
can
get
across.
C
The
goal
line
yeah
the
city's
Council
agree,
of
course,
yeah.
Absolutely
and
I
know
that
you
know
whatever
our
board
recommends.
You
know
it's
up
to
city
council.
You
know,
decide
on
how
to
move
forward
and
and
some
merely
a
recommendation,
so
I
understand
that
so
I
appreciate
that
information.
Thank
you
floor
is
still
open.
Nobody
else
want
to
give
it
a
go.
Well,
just
a
comment:
Mr
chair,
I'd,
just
love
to
see
how
people
are
working
together
on
the
behalf
of
everybody.
I
really
appreciate
that.
Thank
you.
C
Sandra
has
worked
really
closely
with
Cheryl
from
oer
to
address
this.
It's
been
a
long
slog
to
clean
up
our
rules.
We
kind
of
fell
out
of
compliance,
but
we've
been
working
very
diligently
from
last
year
through
now
so
about
a
year,
so
kudos
to
them.
C
They've
been
working
really
closely
this
it's
just
one
small,
effective
population
that
we
moved
direction
from
the
board
based
on
these
recommendations,
so
I
did
want
to
make
sure
that
the
ward
was
aware
that
oer
and
ORS
a
lot
of
African
soup
here
but
they're
they
are
working
together
and
we
are
collaborating.
Okay
Andrew.
Do
you
want
to
make
the
motion
to
accept
and
adopt
this
memo
so
y'all
in
a
second
one,
clear,
clarifying
question
for
Maytag,
so
one
one
of
your
last
comments
regards
to.
C
If,
if,
if
we
recommend
the
the
number
first
item
and
the
city
makes
a
changes,
we
really
don't
need
to
recommend
the
second,
but
then
the
memo
says
recommend
both.
Is
it
still
your
and
Harvey's
recommendation
to
go
forward
on
both
of
them?
Or
would
you
advise?
We,
you
know
want
just
one.
The
first
one
I
would
recommend
on
both,
as
these
are
just
merely
recommendations
to
this
City
Council
on
things
that
we
see
that
may
need
clarification
or
action
on
again.
C
This
is
similar
to
measure
G
with
the
compensation
issue
that
the
city
council
retains
control
of
those
issues.
We
don't
have
control
over
the
city,
council
or
the
city,
and
so
these
are
just
merely
recommendations.
So,
given
that
the
recommendations,
we're
not
sure
which
would
see
the
city
may
act
on
or
accept,
they're
just
merely
recommendations.
C
Okay,
thank
you.
So
I'll
go
ahead
and
make
a
recommendation
on
staff's
memo
here.
Acknowledging
the
first
three
bullet
points.
There's
six
sorry,
six
one
two,
so
so
a
six
there
and
and
then
the
follow-up
and
I
recommend
you
know
the
city
to
add
a
provision
with
the
Kaiser
contract
and
then
also
recommendation
to
clean
up
the
language
around
the
municipal
code
surrounding
the
Medicare
eligibility.
C
You
voice
that
is
recommendation.
Andrew.
Did
you
mean
to
make
that
as
a
motion?
It
is
yes,
we
have
motion
by
Gardner.
Second,
by
Santos,
let's
go
around
Andrew
hi
David
Quan.
A
A
Over
to
Chiron
for
4E
right,
correct.
E
But
before
we
go
to
four
e
Mr,
if
you
allow
me
to
take
30
seconds
and
comment
on
this,
I
am
I
just
went
to
I
know
it's
been
a
a
very
challenging
and
difficult
process
to
say
the
least:
I
want
to
give
kudos
to
staff
for
the
hard
work
being
led
by
by
obviously
Sandra
and
working
with
Maytag,
but
I
also
want
to.
You
know
just
publicly
thanked
the
city
and
oer
and
Cheryl
and
and
Jennifer
for
their.
E
You
know
they
have
been
actually
extremely
patient
with
us
when
we
work
through
this,
and
so
we
appreciate
that
as
well,
so
we
will
try
to
work
through
it.
Obviously
there
are
some
basic
differences
opinion
and
a
couple
of
issues,
but
I
think
we're
trying
to
move
ahead
and
and
and
obviously
Implement.
What
is
what
is
needed,
so
thank
you,
everyone
and
kudos
to
to
the
staff
for
for
the
for
the
work.
So
thank
you
thanks
Rich
over
to
you
Bill
good
morning.
Everyone.
E
Let
me
share
my
screen
here.
E
All
right,
we
got
it
bill
great
we're
here
today
to
review
the
economic
assumptions
for
the
pension
evaluation,
but
I
before
we
get
started
on
that
I
wanted
to
hit
a
couple
things
first.
This
is
the
beginning
of
our
schedule
of
Actuarial
meetings
and
so
today
we're
here
for
the
economic
assumptions
for
the
pension
plan
next
month.
E
E
Hopefully
in
December
and
preliminary
opeb
results,
then
we
don't
expect
anything
in
January,
but
that
may
change
if,
if
we
get
delayed
somewhere
along
the
way
and
then
our
final
oped
valuation
results
will
be
in
at
the
February
board
meeting
so
kicking.
A
Off
a
few
months
of
Actuarial
information
on
your
agenda
and
before
we
get
to
the
economic.
Q
Assumptions
just
wanted
to
update
you
on
our
preliminary
projections.
We
had
exceptional
investment
returns
in
2021
2022
reversed
much
of
that,
but
not.
A
All
of
it,
and
so
our
projections
now
we
estimate,
on
a
market
value
basis,
the
funded
level
to
drop
from
87
to
78
percent
and
been
on
an
Actuarial
value
basis
to
increase
from
77
to
80
percent.
The
chart
shows
the
the
blue
line
is
the
2021
projection
of
the
paydown.
D
I
So
it's
pushed
things
out
a
bit,
but
there's
still
a
projected
decline
in
the
ual
over
the
next
several
years.
These
projections
only
cover
the
changes
in
the
assets.
We
still
have
to
look
at
the
liabilities
and
the
census
data
and
all
of
that,
as
well
as
any
assumption
changes
that
you
may
make
here,
are
the
projected
contributions
on
the
left
as
a
percent
of
pay
on
the
right
as
a
dollar
amount.
I
I
I
would
note
that,
both
as
a
dollar
amount
and
as
a
percent
of
pay,
even
with
the
investment
returns
from
2021,
we're
expecting
a
decline
in
the
fiscal
year
in
2024
contributions
compared
to
the
2023
contributions,
so
we're
still
projecting
a
decline
as
a
dollar
amount.
It's
about
a
six
million
dollar
decline,
but
the
projections
are
much
higher
than
they
were
last
year
and
going
forward
so
we're
definitely
seeing
the
impact
of
those
investment
returns.
A
Happy
to
be
here
and
to
talk
about
your
economic
assumptions,
just
an
overall
overview
of
what
we're
going
to
do
today,
we
are
going
to
look
at
the
economic
assumptions
only
as
those
are
reviewed
every
year.
The
demographic
assumptions
are
reviewed
every
other
year
and
we
reviewed
those
last
year
so
they're.
E
E
So,
to
set
the
stage
the
price
inflation
assumption
is
the
foundation
for
all
other
economic
assumptions.
It
is
right
now
the
current
assumption
is
2.25
percent.
It's
a
component
of
both
the
wage
inflation
and
also
the
expected
return
on
assets
or
the
discount
rate,
the
price
inflation.
Although
it's
a
foundation
for
the
economic
assumptions,
it
has
very
little
direct
impact
on
your
plans,
liabilities
and
that's
due
to
your
plans.
Cola
structure,
the
tier
two
or
the
tier
one.
E
Cola
is
fixed
at
three
percent
per
year,
regardless
of
CPI
there's
a
small
group
of
retirees,
older
retirees
who
get
small
increases
or
increases
associated
with
CPI
to
guarantee
their
purchasing
power.
But
it
is
a
very
small,
older
group,
so
it
has
very
little
impact
and
then
tier
two
colas.
They
are
tied
to
the
Bay
Area
inflation,
but
they
are
capped
at
two
percent
each
year.
So
if
your
inflation
assumption
is
greater
than
that
two
percent,
the
they
will,
we
are
assuming
that
the
tier
two
retirees
will
receive
that.
A
B
A
Eight
percent,
however,
expectations
for
the
future
remain
lower
and
a
key
indicator
of
future
Market
expectations.
F
Is
what
is
called
Break
Even
inflation
and
it's
the
difference
between
the
yield
on
the
treasuries
and
the
yield
on
tips,
which
is
the
inflation
protected
treasuries?
This
chart
here
shows
the
five-year
history
of
Break
Even
inflation
expectations
over
the
next
five
years
are
represented
by
the
green
line.
F
The
following
five
years
are
represented
by
the
five
or
the
yellow
line,
and
then
finally,
the
20-year
expectations
of
inflation
are
represented
by
the
blue
line,
and
you
can
see
there's
a
lot
of
volatility
over
the
last
18
months
in
the
Breakeven
inflation
all
around
two
and
a
half
percent
or
higher,
and
currently
those
Break
Even.
The
Breakeven
inflation
rates
are
at
2.7
percent
over
the
next
five
years
and
then
looking
over
the
following
five
years.
F
A
The
5
and
20
year
were
around
two
and
a
half
percent,
and
at
that
time
we
did
not
propose
increasing
the
inflation
assumption.
We
really
had
a
wait
and
see
philosophy
to
see
if
these
expectations,
the
higher
expectations,
would
hold
out
in
the
future.
A
So
next
we
look
at
some
surveys
in
their
range
of
CPI
assumptions,
starting
from
left
to
right.
We
have
the
range
of
professional
forecasters
based
in
the
third
quarter
of
2022.
Then
we
have
the
Horizon
survey
from
2022,
which
is
a
compilation
of
investment,
consulting
firms
and
what
their
inflation
expectations
look
like.
Then,
the
public
sector
plan
database,
which
is
the
National
Database
of
large
public
sector
systems
and
what
the
inflation
assumptions
are
in
those
plans
and
finally,
the
California
survey,
which
is
a
compilation
of
about
40
large
systems
in
California
and
their
inflation
assumptions.
A
A
Their
short-term
expectations
are
higher,
but
they
do.
The
forecast
is
vary
on
how
quickly
or
how
fast
that
inflation
is
expected
to
drop
in
the
future,
and
this
is
largely
based
on
their
differing
opinions
of
things
like.
G
The
likelihood
and
timing
of
a
potential
recession,
the
effectiveness
of
the
fed's
monetary
policy
will
be
to
curb
inflation,
gasoline
prices
Etc.
So
all
those
things
go
into
the
wide
range
of
uncertainty.
Q
For
those
economic
forecasters
also
shown
on
this
graph,
we
have
makita's
most
recent
assumptions
and
they're
shown
in
the
purple
circles
in
triangles
the
2.6
over
the
10-year
period
is
their.
Q
E
A
And
then
the
triangle
is
shown:
is
there
2.1
expectation
over
the
20-year
period?
So
in
summary,
based
on.
A
Why
do
we
even
bother
about
the
price
inflation
we're
going
to
get
to
that?
That's
a
good
question!
Yes,
we're
going
to
get
to
that.
A
Q
Markets
today
and
within
wages
today,
is
that
the
inflation
is
having
a
direct
impact
on
the
employee's
wages
right.
So
we
are
seeing
that
in
National
local
governments
as
well.
So
basically,
the
price
inflation
is
is
the
base
component
of
wage
inflation,
and
then
we
have
what's
called
real
wage
growth,
which
is
currently
we're
assuming
three
quarters
of
a
percent.
Q
So
the
overall
wage
inflation
is
three
percent
right
now
there
is
another
component
on
top
of
that,
and
it
varies
by
service
for
each
individual
active
member
depending
on
where
they
are
in
their
career
and
those
are
Merit
or
longevity
and
promotion
increases
so
and
we
use
wage
inflation
to
project
members,
salaries,
active
member
salaries
and
then
that
results
also
in
projecting
the
salaries
which
go
into
calculating
the
retirement
benefits.
So
that's
where
it
will
have
a
bigger
impact.
A
A
Okay,
so
the
wage
inflation
data
here
on.
Q
P
A
In
the
country
over
the
last
couple
years,
so
we
are
seeing
a
direct
impact
on
members
salaries
and
on
people's
salaries
Nationwide
for
your
system.
We
also
take
into
account
the
actual
bargained
agreements
and
increases
when
they
are
available,
and
these
are
used
for
the
wage
inflation
assumption
in
the
respective
years.
So
the
current
bargained.
Q
Agreements
for
the
fiscal
year
in
2023
there's
nothing
currently
agreed
for
with
the
police
they're
currently
under
negotiations
and
currently
for
the
fire.
It's
a
three
percent
bargained
agreement,
so
we
are
proposing
an
increase
to
this
wage
inflation
assumption
from
three
percent
to.
A
Percent
and
to
continue
reflecting
those
bargain
agreements
when
they're
available.
Q
Right
so,
lastly,
the
last
assumption
before
I
turn
it
over
to
bill
is
the
amortization
payment
increase
rate.
This
rate
impacts
how
ual
payment
levels.
E
G
K
G
Payments,
so
we
are
recommending
that
we
maintain
this
connection
to
price
inflation
and
we
are
recommending
that
we
increase
the
rate
from
2.25
to
2.50
percent.
G
With
that
I'll
turn
it
over
to
Bill,
okay,
I'm,
going
to
start
the
discount
rate
discussion,
I.
Think
everyone
on
the
board
is
aware
that
this
is
the
most
powerful
assumption
in
our
valuation.
If
we
have
a
higher
expected
return,
it
reduces
contributions
in
the
short
term.
Over
time
it
depends
on
what
actual
returns
are
not
what
we
expect.
So
the
idea
really
is
to
get
the
expectation
right
so
that
we
get
contributions
at
the
right
level
and
they
don't
increase
or
decrease
over
time.
G
We
really
want
to
focus
on
what
the
expectations
are
going
forward
and
there
there's
a
range-
and
so
where
you
end
up
in
that
range,
really
should
reflect
your
assessments
and
preferences
on
how
much
risk
to
take
looking
historically
here
we're
showing
the
the
blue
bars
or
the
Returns
on
the
market,
value
of
assets
and
the
green
or
the
Returns
on
the
Actuarial
value,
where
we
smooth
the
market
returns
over
five
years,
and
then
the
red
line
shows
the
assumed
return
or
the
discount
rate
for
the
the
period.
G
G
The
other
thing
I
would
note,
is
really
there's
only
three
years
where
the
return
on
the
Actuarial
value
was
above
the
Assumption,
and
that
was
back
in
2014
2015.
We
were
right
on
target,
but
then
2021
and
again
this
year.
The
return
on
the
Actuarial
value
was
about
eight
percent
because
we're
recognizing
another
piece
of
the
2021
returns
in
in
that
smoothing.
So,
even
though
we
had
a
loss
on
the
market
value
on
the
Actuarial.
K
G
Looking
at
the
California
survey,
you
see
historically,
we
started
reducing
our
discount
rate,
really
got
ahead
of
the
other
California
systems
in
in
reducing
the
discount
rate,
when
interest
rates
were
coming
down
and
Capital
Market
assumptions
were
coming
down,
we're
still
among
the
lower
discount
rates
in
the
state,
but
we're
no
longer
the
lowest,
and
so
the
chart
on
the
right
shows
the
distribution
from
the
2021
valuations,
and
you
can
see
that
most
systems
were
at
seven
or
six
and
three
quarters
were
slightly
below
that
at
six
and
five
eighths.
G
We
look
at
each
year
is
the
expected
risk
premium,
which
is
the
difference
between
our
expected
return
and
the
yield
on
a
10-year
Treasury,
and
as
interest
rates
have
declined
over
the
years.
That
expected
risk
premium
has
really
grown
and
and
really
reached
its
peak
around
2020
when
the
yield
on
the
10-year
Traders
dropped
all
the
way
to
0.7
percent
the
yield
on
the
10-year
treasury
has
bounced
back
it's.
This
is
as
of
June.
It
was
3.1
I.
G
Think
if
you
look
today,
it's
close
to
3.8,
it's
bouncing
around
a
fair
amount,
but
it
has
come
up
substantially
with
the
FED
increasing
interest
rates
that
going
forward
has
an
effect
on
the
expected
risk
premium
and
makes
it
much
easier
to
achieve
the
expected
return
if
things
stay
in
in
that
mode.
G
Bill,
quick
question:
yeah.
Thank
you.
Thanks
in
the
slides,
you
use
two
phrases
interchangeably
and
for
the
board.
I'd
appreciate
it.
If
you
would
explain
their
relationship,
one
is
the
expected
rate
of
return
and
the
other
is
Discount
right.
G
The
expected
rate
of
return
is
the
rate
we
expect
to
earn
on
our
assets.
The
discount
rate
is
how
we
discount
the
value
of
our
liabilities
to
present
value.
If
you.
C
G
Yes,
so
in
our
funding
model,
we're
trying
to
accumulate
assets,
to
equal
the
liabilities
and
and
so
on,
an.
K
Make
the
discount
rate
for
the
liabilities
the
same
as
the
expected
return
on
assets
it
matches
up
and
develops
the
smooth
pattern,
relatively
smooth
pattern
of
contributions
to
accumulate
assets,
to
pay
the
benefits
for
other
purposes.
L
You
know,
particularly
if
you're
trying
to
price
the
annuities
or
look
at
some
other
other
metrics,
but
for
the
purposes
of
our
funding
valuation
and
funding
the
plan,
we
use
the
same
discount
rate
as
the
expected
return
so
that
the
assets
then
are
expected
to
accumulate
to
the
same
amount
as
the
liabilities
and
pay
the
benefits.
L
Every
year,
when
we're
looking
at
this,
we
get
Capital
Market
assumptions
from
Makita
they're
applied
to
your
target
asset
allocation,
and
here
we
are
just
looking
at
the
pension
portfolio
next
month,
we'll
come
back
with
information
on
the
opeb
portfolio.
L
G
G
The
Horizon
survey
and
Makita
were
very
close
based
on
makita's
original
assumptions
for
2022.,
so
I
should
back
up
here
most
investment,
consulting
firms,
issue
assumptions
on
a
calendar
year
basis
based
on
the
markets
somewhere
around
the
end
of
the
year
sometime
in
December,
and
then
issue
their
assumptions
in
January
or
sometimes
February.
G
So
those
assumptions
I'm
referring
to
as
Nikita's
original
assumptions
for
2022.
market
conditions
change
significantly
during
2022,
and
so
some
of
the
investment
firms,
including
Makita,
have
issued
interim
assumptions.
Makita's
I
understand
were
set
mid-year,
so
they
reflect
market
conditions
around
June
30th,
which
is
our
valuation
date
and
and
reflect
those
market
conditions.
G
And
so
one
of
the
issues
we're
dealing
with
here
is
you
will
see
on
the
10-year
time
frame
Horizon.
We
were
looking
at
about
a
six
percent
expected
return
based
on
the
original
assumptions
set
at
the
beginning
of
the
year,
but
the
revised
assumptions,
as
in
June
30th,
increased
substantially
to
7.3
percent
and
over
a
20-year
time
frame,
we
were
looking
at
6.8
6.9
at
the
beginning
of
the
year
and
on
the
the
interim
assumptions
it
increased.
G
Change
that
happened
during
that
that
period
now,
that
is
largely
because
that's
when
the
FED
started
increasing
interest
rates,
so
you
have
much
higher
interest
rates.
We
also
had
the
market
decline,
and
so
the
price
earnings
ratios
and
valuations
have
declined,
and
so
that
changes
the
expectations
going
forward.
G
Normally,
this
chart
shows
the
the
range
historically
between
makita's
tenure.
Assumption
is
the
bottom
and
20-year
assumption
is
the
top,
and
the
gold
diamond
is
what
we
selected
as
our
expected
return
or
or
discount
rate,
and
you
can
see
normally
we
want
that
Diamond
to
be
somewhere
between
the
10
and
20
year.
Return
about
10
years
about
40
percent
of
the
present
value
of
benefits
is
paid
out.
20
years
about
70
percent,
50
percent
comes
in
somewhere
around
12
to
14
years
for
the
typical
plan.
G
G
M
Can
consider
a
much
more
positive
outlook
in
the
future,
but
we're
not
really
at
this
point
ready
to
jump
fully
onto
the
interim
assumptions,
we're
concerned
that
those
could
reverse
themselves
very
quickly
in
in
the
uncertain
markets.
So
right
now
we're
suggesting
no
change
to
the
discount
rate.
The
six
and
five-eighths
remains
reasonable.
If
we
were
looking
at
the
original
assumptions,
you
could
look
at
no
change
or
potential
decrease.
M
Obviously,
if
you're
looking
at
the
interim
assumptions,
we'd
be
looking
at
some
sort
of
increase
in
the
assumptions,
but
we're
suggesting
that
you
just
hold
it
at
the
current
discount
rate
and
wait
until
next.
L
Year
and
see
if
the
market
conditions
persist
before
considering
any.
M
L
In
the
Assumption
making
well,
we'd
have
to
have
Makita
weigh
in
on
the
details
behind
their
Capital
Market
assumptions.
But
my
my
general
understanding
is
you:
you
have.
The
rise
in
interest
rates
has
affected
the
expected
return
in
fixed
income
and
and
some
of
the
other
asset
classes,
and
then
we've
had
significant
drops
in
the
in
the
valuations
for
other
asset
classes,
which
makes
the
Outlook
going
forward
more
positive
for
those
asset
classes.
L
L
Yeah
I
think
yeah,
it's
issue,
yeah
I,
believe
that's
what
I've
observed
is
that
I
think
that
the
base
risk-free
rate
is
the
biggest
determinant
in
terms
of
these
changes.
The
equity
risk
premium
doesn't
change
as
much
but
shouldn't.
We
think
about
that
at
this
time
when,
when
we
are
trying
to
decide
the
discount
rate,
because
as
Harvey
always
points
out,
but
correctly
so
that
we
are
using
the
expected
return
to
inform
our
discount
rate,
but
the.
A
Expected
return,
Isn't,
reflecting
a
new
risk
premium
honestly,
the
interim
numbers
we
should
just
ignore
yeah,
I,
think
and
isn't
that
I
think
that's
what
bill
is
saying.
Is
that?
Because
we
just
want
to
you
know
if
next
year
these
numbers
stay
high,
then
I
think
we
should
revisit
it.
But
at
this
point,
given
that
you
know
rates
are
higher
because
they're
trying
to
you,
know
Tamp
down
inflation
and
inflation,
those
inflation
Explorations.
G
Actually
have
come
down
quite
a
bit
in
the
last
few
months,
so
I
would
Advocate
what
you
know.
I
think
that's
what
you're
saying
and
what
bill
is
also
saying
is
that
we
make
no
changes
now,
but
you
know
we'll
Revisited
next
year:
okay,
okay
and
one
other
question
on
page
17,
okay,
so
I'm
just
trying
to
understand
this.
G
Is
this
the
expected
distribution
of
the
the
40
Consultants
or
24
Consultants
that
were
surveyed
the
numbers
on
the
right,
the
the
column
that
says
Horizon
survey
and
the
distribution
based
on
the
survey
of
40
consultants
and
then
the
The
Columns
under
the
Makita?
The
original
and
interim
are
the
distribution
based
on
makita's
assumptions.
G
So
there
are
Consultants
who
would
basically
say
that
their
10-year
expectation
is
0.3
percent
I
mean
I'm
just
a
bit
taken
aback
by
that
number?
No,
no!
No!
No!
No
it's!
This
is
the
distribution
of
returns
over
10
years
at
the
fifth
percentile.
So,
given
the
the
expected
return
in
the
standard
deviation,
there's
a
five
percent
chance
of
those
assumptions
of
an
average
return
of
0.3
okay.
So
the
survey
is
ask
for
an
expected.
I
understand
education,
yes,
okay!
Now
that
makes
sense.
G
Thank
you,
but
if
you've
seen
the
GMO
projections,
I,
don't
know
if
you
followed
those
that
might
not.
You
know
what
is
GMO
well,
they
they've
been
very
bearish
in
markets,
and
so
their
expectations
of
future
returns
have
always
been
several
standard.
Deviations
away
from
the
normal
I
think.
Oh
really
yeah.
G
Yeah
so
they're
I,
don't
have
it
in
front
of
me,
but
there
there
is
a
a
range
among
the
Consultants
of
what
their
average
expected
return
is
the
survey
puts
it
together
by
asset
class
and
then
compiles
an
average
for
each
asset
class,
and
so
we've
used
the
the
average
for
the
asset
class
for
these
calculations.
G
Okay,
thank
you
and
and
Bill
a
silly
question,
but,
on
the
left
hand
side,
the
percentile,
that's
how
the
survey
is
completed.
Is
that
some
Michaela,
those
percentiles
do
they
come
from
Chiron?
The
reason
I'm
asked
is
because,
obviously
they
are
backwards
from
what
we
usually
think
about
the
returns
and
where
the
plans
Falls
right,
if
you're
in
the
fifth
percentile
you're
in
the
top.
These
numbers
are
backwards
from
the
standpoint
that,
if
you're
in
the
fifth
percentile
you're
really
at
the
bottom
right,
these
are
backwards
from
the
way.
K
The
investment
Consultants
normally
present
it.
These
are
just
our
calculations
based
on
the
expected
return
and
the
standard
deviation,
and
so
it
just
you
know,
plugs
in
a
95th.
Percentile
return
is
the
the
top
instead
of
the
bottom,
so
compared
to
the
way
the
investment
Consultants
do
it,
the
numbers
would
be
flipped,
but
the
meaning
is
the
same.
Here
we
have
a
five
percent
chance
of
having
a
12.3
percent
return
or
high
on
this
to
it.
K
I
just
wanted
to
make
the
point
right
so
I,
I,
I,
I,
hear
you
and
I
appreciate
the
explanation.
I
just
want
everyone
to
understand
that
these
are
different
from
when
we
refers
to
usually
the
presentation
by
Makita
and
Prabhu
on
the
quarterly
it
returns
and
the,
and
where
does
the
plan
fall
in
terms
of
percentile
with
their
peers.
K
Thank
you
bill.
Just
a
quick
question.
I
I
totally
understand
that
this
exercise
is
more
of
an
art
than
a
science,
in
some
sense,
just
a
quick
question
on.
Why
do
you
just
survey
Consultants?
Do
you
include
other?
Would
you
want
to
include
other
Market
participants
as
well
in
the
survey
like
economists
and
such
it?
It's
getting
access
to
consistent
data,
and
so
we
do
so
a.
A
Variety
of
things,
but
the
Horizon
survey
is
something
that
is
compiled
and
has
been
referenced
by
the
IRS
and
others.
A
Others,
if
you
have
a
a
group
that
you
would
like
us
to
look
at
we're
happy
to
do
that
and
provide
the
comparison.
Our
general
view
is:
we
want
to
use
your
investment
consultant,
who
knows
your
portfolio
the
best
and
our
comparisons
to
others
are
really
just
to
make
sure
that
your
investment.
G
So
so
that's
really,
where
we're
going
with
it
and
and
Dave
just
to
clarify
I,
don't
mean
to
speak
for
Laura
I
think
she
is
on
the
call,
but
generally
even
among
the
consulting
firms.
It's
the
the
forecasts,
come
from
the
economists
and,
of
course,
economies
have
also
predicted
10
of
the
last
nine
recessions.
So
just
bear
that
in
mind.
K
K
So
this
is
really
what
we
are
using
from
the
assumptions
is
this:
is
your
asset
allocation,
the
standard
deviation?
These
are
makita's
assumptions,
but
the
standard
deviation.
A
K
A
G
Return
we
use
geometric
returns
in
our
analysis,.
G
Age
21
is
worth
wandering
over,
for
a
second
looks
like
we
really
are:
there's
only
a
couple
of
plants:
Below
Us,
San,
Diego,.
G
I
have
to
pick
them
out
here.
The
the
city
of
San,
Diego,
San,
Diego,
Transit,
San,
Mateo,
County,.
G
Who's,
the
other
one
that
I'm
missing-
oh
Fresno,
County,
let
me
know,
do
we
have
a
sense
of
their
funded
status
of
these
funds.
We
do
I,
don't
have
that
right
here.
I
know
so.
I
know
for
San
Diego,
Transit
they're
lower
than
60
percent,
but
they're,
also
a
very
small
plan
and
they're
a
closed
plan
to
most
participants,
so
their
asset
allocation
is,
is
much
more
conservative
and
and
San
Diego
cities
also
they're.
G
Currently,
their
plan
plan
is
closed
to
the
general
group,
but
they're
reopening
it,
but
I
do
know
that
they
also
there's.
K
A
whole
yeah,
that's
yeah,
you
can
say
that
yeah
ordeal
right
so
yeah,
so
they're,
also
more
conservative,
not
that
their
asset
allocation
was
much
more
conservative,
but
just
because
of
the
closed
nature
of
the
majority
of
the
plan
so
and.
G
Fresno
I
believe,
is
over
100
funded.
No,
no.
This
is
City.
Okay,
okay
is
very
well
funded,
I
think
they're
over
90
percent,
based
on
2021
information.
A
Don't
feel
me
I'm
going
to
ask
you
a
controversial
question
if
I
may,
okay
is
it?
Is
it
reasonable
for
us
to
rely
on
your
consultant's
projections?
Have
you
ever
done
any
back
testing
to
see
whether
they're
you
know
20
years
ago
or
10
years
ago,
their
10
and
20
year?
Projections
are
any
good
I
haven't
done
any
recent
back
testing?
K
The
forecasts
that,
based
on
makita's
forward-looking
returns,
of
course,.
G
E
Think
I
think
you
know
the
board
is
trying
to
find
a
comfortable
place
in
terms
of
projections
and
relying
on
I,
think
I.
Think
Bill
and
Ann
had
a
crystal
ball
depicted.
E
That's
really
what
we're
dealing
with
we're
dealing
with
funding
people's
lives
looking
into
a
crystal
ball,
so
the
the
best
reliability
we
can
reach
I
think
is
what
this
board
wants
to
hang
its
decision-making
and
and
to
your
point
or
about
the
uncertainty
of
these
projections.
That's
part
of
the
reason
we
show
this
this
range,
because
even
using
their
assumptions,
this.
B
Is
just
the
median
outcome?
There's
a
significant
range
around
it
that
they
acknowledge
with
the
standard
deviation,
and
so
you
know,
there's
built-in
uncertainty
in
the
expected
return
on
assets
and
does
that
require
you
to
think
about
a
margin
for
adverse
deviation
because
of
that
uncertainty
that
we're
in
a
little
bit
of
a
cushion
so
that,
if
we're
wrong,
it.
E
Doesn't
immediately
hit
the
bottom
line,
yeah
I
think
that's
something
that
we.
G
G
Know,
do
you
want
to
just
go
with
the
50th
percentile,
or
do
you
want
some
margin
of
conservatism
or
margin
for
address,
deviation,
built.
P
Summarize
sorry,
one
question
Bill:
if
I
could
ask,
is
it
fair
to
say
because
we're
not
making
a
change
that
we're
we're
just
liking,
I,
guess
2019
or
we
basically
staying
with
the
original
assumptions
at
the
beginning
of
the
year
as
opposed
to
the
interim,
and
we
are
going
to
you
know
we're
not
going
to
have
our
Diamond
up
in
the
you
know
between.
G
7.4
and
8.1
we're
going
to
be
using
the
six
to
seven
until
further
notice
is
that
is
that
the
way
we
did
it
also
in
2019
I
assume
just
go.
P
With
the
original
assumptions,
until
some
of
the
factors
change
where
we
have
to.
G
Make
a
change
in
the
discount
rate
yeah:
that
is
what
we're.
A
Suggesting
this
year
in
2019,
we
had
kind
of
the
reverse
situation
from
this
year,
in
that,
if
they
had
reissued
assumptions
as
of
June
30th,
they
would
have
been
much
lower
in
2019..
A
It
was
the
beginning
of
the
year
that
that
was
high,
but
it's
that
volatility
in
the
market
and
what
we
don't
want
to
do,
for
example,
is
to
raise
the
discount
rate
this
year
and
then
realize
next
year
we
had,
we
need
to
drop
it
back,
and
so
we
are
suggesting
that
we
think
of
it
more
in
terms
of
the
original
and
keep
our
gold
diamond
in
the
middle
here
of
the
original
bar
and
monitor
things
going
forward,
and,
of
course,
if
market
conditions
stay
so
that
the
Capital
Market
assumptions
are
higher
than
next
year,
we'll
reconsider
whether
and
increases
appropriate.
E
Okay,
it
remind
me
again-
maybe
this
is
not
for
you
Bill,
but
when,
when
would
when
would
the
next
Readjustment
occur?
I
guess,
on
a
what
time,
Nikita
will
issue
New
Capital
Market
assumptions
in
January,
and
then
we
would
be
coming
back
at
this
time
next
year
and
if
Makita
again
issues
interim
assumptions,
we'd
also
have
that
information
and
bring
it
to
the
board
for
a
decision
that
would
be
the
June
30th
2023
valuation,
which
would
affect
contributions
for
fiscal
year,
ending
2025..
E
P
E
We
did
some
estimates
based
on
the
2021
valuation,
the
census
data
and
everything.
So
it's
not
going
to
be
precise
with
what
happens
with
2022,
but
it
should
be
pretty
close,
and
so,
if
we
increase
effectively,
it's
increasing
the
wage
inflation
assumption
would
add.
E
Reliability
and
drop
our
funded
percentage
by
0.15
percent,
combining
that,
with
the
amortization
payment
increases,
it
has
different
effects
on
members
and
the
city
members
are
in
tier,
one
are
just
paying
a
portion
of
the
normal
cost
that
would
cause
their
rates
to
go
up.
By
about
point,
three
percent
of
pay
tier
two
they're
paying
half
of
the
normal
cost
and
half
of
the
ual
costs.
E
It
would
cause
their
rates
to
go
up
by
about
point
four
percent
of
pay
and
for
the
city,
it's
about
a
point.
Nine
million
dollar
increase
to
their
contribution.
E
So
now,
in
terms
of
the
city,
they
were
looking
at
contribution
around
206
million,
which
is
down
6
million
from
the
prior
year,
so
this
would
bump
it
to
to
around
207
million
roughly.
E
E
A
Well,
let
me
use
our
summary
of
what
we're
suggesting,
but.
A
G
J
So
he's
heard
from
the
actuaries
that
and
Bill
can
go
into
detail
about
this.
Your
plan
is
whiskier
than
most
and
what
Bill
said
was
in
any
given
economic
downturn
because
of
the
nature
of
how
many
acts
of
jab
and
how
many
retired
to
have
your
city
will
feel
more
pain.
That
makes
sense.
Okay,
right
bills,
you've
all
seen
those
charts,
but
bill
says
in
fact
you'll
like
the
riskiest
I
have
ever
seen,
and
so
Vincent's
Area,
11,
10
and
a
half
years
ago
guys
well
shoot.
That
means
we
got
to
dial
down
beta
right.
J
That's
what
you
do,
but
then
Vince
says,
but
let's
remember
that
beta
is
essentially
passive
benchmarks,
there's
also
Alpha,
and
so
this
says
look
we
should
dial
down
beta
and
try
to
dial
up
Alpha
now.
Why
does
he
say
that?
Because
we're
dealing
with
a
world
for
pretty
stupid
people
who
say,
oh
well,
the
average
plan
has
seven
percent
return.
You
only
have
6.625.
What
are
you
stupid?
No
I've!
We
have
a
lower
beta,
but
Vince
says
you
know
if
we're
smart
and
I
swear
to
God.
This
is
what
he
said.
You
know
we're
smart.
J
We
can
marry
a
small
Alpha
to
the
correct
beta
and
deliver
a
return.
That's
at
the
median
of
our
peers.
Let's
break
that.
Apart
into
what
Vince
said
now,
this
is
the
part
where
I
contribute
I'm,
not
a
financial
guy
right
I
said:
look
I
I
was
I,
was
a
professor
at
Stanford
for
many
years,
elector
I
didn't
have
PhD
and
and
there's
grading
on
on
a
curve
in
grading
absolute
right,
and
it's
actually
fair
for
all
the
morons
out
there
to
grade
us
on
the
curve.
J
Oh
you're,
like
you're,
less
than
seven
you
suck
right,
but
we
are
fiduciaries.
We
must
pray
to
Absolute,
so
we
must
set
our
beta
to
the
right
number
and
there
was
an
offside,
the
Hayes
Mansion
three
or
four
years
ago
we
picked
the
correct
bait
and
you'll.
We
go
through
every
year
embarrassed
at
this.
We
picked
the
volatility
at
12
percent,
but
it
would
be
nice
if
we
could
also
get
a
passing
grade
on
a
curve.
So
be
nice
if
we
delivered
the
correct
beta
6.625
but
gave
enough
Alpha.
M
J
Was
well,
that's
never
going
to
happen
unless
we
control
the
CEO
and
CIO
positions.
Well,
you've
heard
of
all
that.
That's
measure
G
right
and
then
measure
G
allows
us
to
hire
Prabhu
and
it
allows
you
know
Prabhu
to
build
the
staff
for
relatively
independent
and
so
Prabhu
was
set.
The
difficult
task
up
through.
Can
you
build
a
staff
that
consistently
generates
Alpha
and
the
answer
from
prabu
is
yeah
dry
in
30
40
basis
points
yeah.
We
consistently
do
that.
J
Okay,
so
Peru's,
not
loopy
right,
the
other
professional
organizations
do
can
do
we
can
do
it
all
right,
so
Prabhu
has
in
fact
generated
enough
Alpha
over
the
last
couple
years
and
he's
pretty
confident
I'm
the
only
put
words
in
your
mouth
through
that
he
can
do
that
Audi
infinitum
for
us
to,
in
fact
raise
our
discount
rate.
If
we
can
rely
on
that
Alpha
from
6.625
to
7
percent,
if
we
can
rely
on
that,
Alpha
Prabhu
says
we'll
drive
I'm
here
and
I
can
and
my
staff
is
here.
J
J
The
basic
thing
we're
going
to
do
is
go
to
city
council
and
say:
hey
here's
the
thought:
how
about
you
not
killed
the
goose
that
laid
the
golden
egg
he's
getting
starving?
Let's
feed
him!
Some
good
brain
and
and
the
city
council
God
bless
your
hearts
may
say
no,
because
essentially,
what
we're
arguing
is
to
implement
a
capitalist
system
in
the
heart
of
a
social
system,
but
we
know
from
Hogan
you
guys
to
see
those
results
soon
from
the
number
one
surveyor
that
there
are
lots
of
similar
punch,
blinds
that
have
done
this.
It's
not.
K
That
loopy
right,
you
know
what
we're
suggesting
maybe
a
hard
swallow
for
the
city
council,
but
but
other
City
councils
have.
A
E
S
Watch
and
pat
on
the
butt
and
send
me
out
into
my
retirement
as
a
happy
warrior,
am
I
putting
words
in
your
mouth
or
is
that
kind
of
the
way
you
see
it?
S
S
Well,
I
think
well,
Drew
and
I
have
had
this
conversation.
You
know
in
terms
of
what
is
the
alpha.
You
should
expect
going
forward
right
and
I
would
say
a
competent
investment
team,
given
our
risk
budget
and
our
risk.
Tolerance
should
be
able
to
add
30
basis
points
or
thereabouts
after
fees
and
costs
right.
S
So
that's
that
goes
directly
to
the
bottom
line
and
and
of
course
you
know,
one
has
to
keep
in
mind
that
it's
not
a
consistent
35
basis
points
every
year,
but
in
the
long
run
we
should
be
able
to
beat
our
benchmarks
by
30
to
50
basis
points
and
that's
the
whole.
You
know
reason
to
have
an
investment
office
and
an
investment
program.
Otherwise
you
could
run
it
with.
You
know
as
a
one-man
show
with
a
consultant
driven
organization,
so
I
think
I
think
that
30
35
basis
points
is
very
realistic.
S
I
think
some
of
the
some
of
the
better
performing
pension
plans
and
other
pools
of
capital
do
add
that
kind
of
value.
So
I
said
the
last
meeting
when
Laura
work
said
wow.
You
know
the
investment
committee
as
far
Drew
Vince,
you
guys
generally
like
a
billion
dollars,
so
in
fact,
Laura
and
I
did
have
lunch
with
Vince
to
show
them
the
chart.
I
I
will
admit
I'm
sitting
right
next
to
him.
I
have
a
little
tear
in
his
eye,
but
we
also
through
the
course
of
lunch,
asked
Vince.
S
You
know:
does
he
still
stick
to
this
beta
plus
Alpha
notion
and
he
does
so
I
I
think
we
can
get
an
A
graded
absolute
six,
six
a
little
over
six,
nine
percent
and
I
think
we
need
an
a
graded
it
on
a
curve.
If
we
can
generate
30
35
basis
points
of
alpha
pretty
consistently.
Predictably,
then
we
can
be
at
the
median
level
of
other
plans,
but
take
a
lot
less
risk
and
we
saw
we
saw
that
play
out
guys.
S
You
saw
what
we
did
in
the
downturn
right
and
we
don't
make
as
much
on
the
highs
but
I'm
wrong
for
who
we
sure
lost
a
lot
less
than
most
planes
did
in
this
downturn.
Right.
That's
that's
right!
Drew
and
that's
that's
my
design
right.
That
goes
back
right.
Let
us
study
in
our
data
yeah
right.
So
so
you
dial
down
beta
and
you
you
don't
get
the
highs,
but
you
also
don't
get
the
loads.
I
mean
that's
what
that's
what
it
that's,
what
it
is
right.
S
It's
the
low
pass
filter
I'm
a
doubly
I,
couldn't
resist
so
we're
probably
within
a
year
well,
hopefully
less,
because
we
want
this
in
place
of
actually
asking
the
city
council,
if
they're
willing
to
take
some
political
risk
to
lock
in
an
alpha
right-
and
everybody
tells
me
dude,
don't
tell
them.
You'll
raise
the
discount
rate.
If
they,
if
they
say
yes,
I,
think
that's
right,
I
think
our
you
said
Drew,
that's
it!
That's!
No!
S
You
don't
want
to
get
in
that
kind
of
deal
with
them,
but
that
is
the
reality
of
what
would
happen,
because
if
we
look
at
those
Makita
forecasts
and
Peru
says
We'll,
add
30
basis
points
to
all
those.
The
discount
rate
goes
up,
that's
just
the
reality
of
it.
So
sorry
that
was
a
long-winded
where
we
in
space
and
time
you
guys
put
up
a
lot
of
drewness
from
me.
Floors
open,
go
ahead!
S
Ask
questions
of
of
Prabhu
or
me
or
Bill
Floors
open
yeah
I
just
want
to
say
that
I
as
I
thought
more
about
it.
I
I
think
that
we're
being
inconsistent
if
we
don't
consider
an
increase
in
the
discount
rate
for
the
following
reason.
S
S
Interest
rates
are
finally
finally
mean
reverting
and
even
if
the
equator
is
premium
hasn't
been
adjusted
in
the
interim
numbers
of
Nikita
I.
Think
that,
and
also
given
that
we
are
on
the
very
low
end
of
most
plants,
I
feel
like
we
should
consider
an
increase
from
6.625
this
year
and
not
wait
until
next
year.
S
So
I
would
say
Sunita.
If
that's
what
you
think
then
go
back
to
the
investment
committee
and
and
don't
raise
the
discount
rate
rate,
raise
the
volatility
or
say
out
of
all
of
12.
I
want
to
keep
it
same.
I
think
the
forecast
return
at
that
level
of
volatility
will
be
higher
than
6.625,
but
the
discount
rate
to
me
is
made
up
of
these
sub-tending
components
so
get
at
the
subtending
components.
But
it
is
true
that.
P
A
P
Inflation
rate,
because
that
would
include
2019
to
2020..
Does
that
make
sense.
P
All
right-
and
we
are
normalizing
and
I.
P
G
Quite
a
bit
yeah
but
I
think
you
know:
Sunita
Javi
could
I
go
first,
yeah,
okay,
so
I.
M
Mean
there
are
two
different
things
right:
one
is
we
have
an
asset
allocation
and
what
is
the
return
expected
based
on
that
allocation?
Right,
okay
and
that's
a
different
number
than
the
6.6
and
5
8
right
and
to
Harvey's
point
I
mean.
A
I'm,
sorry
to
Drew's
Point
I'll
be.
N
Adding
Alpha
that
should
go
off
that
asset
allocation.
This
makes
and
the
expected
return
of
that,
because
that's
the
value
that
the
investment
staff
is
adding
in
terms
of
manager
selection.
So,
if
you
give
you
know,
we
give
an
asset
allocation
and
then
to
manage.
You
know,
selection,
they
add
Alpha
right.
So
that's
one
thing
now
this
the
the
discount
rate
at
this
point
primarily
is
to
determine
the
city's
contribution
to
close
the
funding.
N
Gap
and
I
would
say
that
in
the
interest
of
stability
that
we
keep
it
at
six
and
five
eighths
and
you
may
be
right,
I
think
I
actually
agree
with
you
that
the
interest
rate
regime
going
forward
is
probably
going
to
be
higher
than
what
we
had
in
the
previous
10
years,
but
I
think
in
the
interest
of
stability.
I
would
say:
let's
keep
it
six
and
five
eight.
So
the
city's
contribution
are
not.
You
know
like
reduce.
B
This
year
and
then
maybe
increase
again
next
year
and
revisit
it
next
year,
because
I
think
that's
the
primary
use
of
this
number.
M
S
There's
also
the
chance
that
we
are
way
off
on
our
discounting
of
our
liabilities,
and
that
also
impacts
the
discount
rate.
That's
until
we
know
that
I'm
sort
of
a
vegetable
I'm
sort
of
somewhat
loathed
to
move
that
number
until
we
know
more.
But
you
know
this
is
a
good
debate,
you're
doing
a
good
job
debating
it.
You
know
lead
on
Sunita,
so
I
know
Cheryl's
had
her
hand
up
for
a
while.
Oh
yeah,
yeah,
sorry
hey,
you
know
guys
I'm
on
my
iPad,
it's
hard
to
see.
Hands
Cheryl
go
ahead.
S
I
I,
just
have
a
general
question.
I
know
that
Harvey
and
probably
want
to
speak
directly
to
the
comments
made
by
the
other
trustees.
So
I'll
be
very
fast
bill
when
you
were
speaking
of
the
207
million
dollar
contribution.
Is
that
the
total
City
contribution
for
tier
one
and
tier
two
for
only
pension,
or
does
that
include
opeb
as
well,
that
that
does
not
include
open?
S
That
was
just
for
police
and
fire
pension,
okay,
but
it
does
include
tier
one
and
tier
two,
so
this
would
only
increase
the
projected
amounts
that
we
saw
in
a
previous
meeting
by
you
know
about
one
million
dollars.
Yes,
okay,
the
and
you
know
as
the
as
the
board
knows,
these
contributions
are
very
important
for
the
city's
forecast,
so
the
more
information
we
have
in
the
quicker
we
get
that
information
when
decisions
are
made.
It
really
helps
us
in
terms
of
projecting
and
getting
our
our
budget
forecast
done.
S
So
thank
you
very
much
thanks
Cheryl.
So
let's
do
Harvey.
First
then
Prabhu
then
David
Quan
I'll
keep
my
eyes
on
the
hands.
I
figured
out
how
to
do
it.
Thanks
following
up
on
sandita's
comments
bill.
Could
you
go
back
to
your
slide?
Seven.
S
Foreign,
because
this
kind
of
explains
to
me
a
little
bit
of
the
disconnect
that
I've
tried
to
suss
out
with
the
equivalence
between
the
expected
rate
of
return
on
our
assets
and
the
live.
The
growth
of
liabilities,
the
or
our
liabilities
grow,
both
for
retired
members
and.
N
We're
active
members,
our
liabilities
grow
by
that
bar
in
the
middle
that
were
three
percent
right.
The
future
liabilities
are
because,
because
the
wages
are
increasing
by
an
inflation
amount
and
the
cost
of
the
benefits
are
going
up,
whether
the
wages
are
increasing
by
the
real
wage
group
and
then
the
inflation
rate
is
forcing
up
those
liabilities
in
the
future.
So
we
grow
our
liabilities
by
inflation,
so
they
ask
our
assets,
however,
are
the
third
stack
our
assets
grow
by
inflation.
A
A
Are
we're
expecting
a
real
return
to
change,
so
our
earnings
rate
might
change
because
we're
stacking
inflation,
plus
a
real
rate
of
return
on
top
of
that
and
of
our
bond
portfolio,
is
growing
now
at
a
much
higher
rate
than
our
real
rate
of
return
is
going
on,
but
our
liabilities
are
only
going
up
by
inflation
by
the
liability,
but
why
I
built
the
benefits?
In
other
words,
somebody
earning
today.
C
N
Has
a
policy
where
or
has
been,
the
practice?
I,
don't
know,
policy
practice
that
the
discount
rate
for
the
liability
is
based
on
the
expected
Return
of
the
assets,
I'm,
not
I'm,
sort
of
saying
that's
a
given
and
given
that
I
understand
your
point,
which
is
if
we
are
saying
that
the
future
payments
are
going
up
by
three
percent
and
we're
keeping
our
asset
returns
constant
this
a
little
bit
of
a
disconnect
right.
N
So
let
me
just
clarify:
we
use
the
wage
inflation
to
project
the
salaries
and
calculate
the
benefits.
A
P
You
put
in
the
you
know
it:
it
differs
a
bit
from
that
because
you
know
Investments,
don't
actually
earn
6.625
each
year,
but
we
also
have
the
cash
flows
of
contributions
and
and
benefit
payments
going
out
and
salaries
aren't
exactly
three
percent
each
year
and
there
are
different
retirement
rates
and
things
like
that,
so
that
so
it
creates
the
the
variation.
But
fundamentally
that's
why
the
expected
return
in
the
discount
rate
match,
because
then
both
of
them
are
expected
to
grow
by
6.625
percent
each
year.
P
I
think
so
so
think
of
this
voice.
Tunisia.
This
is
the
exercise
that
I
abandoned,
but
I'm
gonna
pick
up
again,
one
no
longer
chairman
Bill
and
Company
forecast
for
20
30
years.
What
we're
going
to
pay
out
in
benefits
right
and
just
like
returns.
That
has
two
components
right:
it
has
well
there's
inflation
right
and
then
there's
real
dollars.
But
what
there's?
What
do
we
actually
pay
out?
And
what
do
we
pay
on?
P
X
inflation
and
nobody's
ever
answered
the
question:
Bill,
Bill
and
Ann
know
how
to
do
it,
but
it's
a
lot
of
work
over
the
last
say,
20
years,
when
we
forecast
those
payments,
were
we
right,
I
mean
nobody
knows
that,
and
there
was
that
weird
little
thing
we
did
back
in
the
late
teens,
where
we
set
the
cola
at
three
percent
and
then
proceeded
to
move
into
environment
of
about
two
percent
per
year:
inflation
right
and
and
the
thing
I'm
trying
to
ascertain.
Look
it's
a
political
question.
P
How
much
did
the
city's
large
house
in
the
late
90s
cause
us
to
be
in
late,
20,
yeah
late
90s
caused
us
to
be
underfunded
right.
The
the
grand
jury
looked
into
this
ask
that
question:
Nobody
Knows
the
answer
right
right,
they'll
ask
you
and
you.
K
A
A
I
know
what
we're
doing
right,
but
those
yeah
who's
back
in
95
may
have
broken
the
model.
A
bit.
I
also
know
something
guys
when
you
remember
this,
when
Vince
said
he
couldn't
be
there
anymore,
Bill
hubby
I
computed
how
how
well
Vince
outperformed
or
underperformed.
E
M
So
I
think
Prabhu
had
his
hand
up,
go
ahead,
jump
in
and
then
you
David
well
just
to
make
it
more
confusing.
I'll
make
the
case
for
increasing
the
discount
rate,
as
well
as
decreasing
the
discount
rate,
and
then
you
all
get
to
make
it
right.
So
sunita's
point
is
right:
right,
I
mean
we've
kept
the
discount
rate
at
six
and
five
eighths
from
a
very
different
regime
where
the
tenure
was
actually
yielding
80
or
90
basis
points
and
we're
in
a
completely
different
world.
M
Today
that
tenure
is
yielding
3.7,
3.8
briefly,
I
think
jumped
over
four
percent
so
and
a
dollar
of
assets
is
you
know
what
we
paid.
You
know
we
paid
a
dollar
in
January.
Today
we
are
paying
75
cents
right,
so
assets
are
also
cheaper.
So
that
is
the
case
for
perhaps
considering
increasing
the
discount
rate
now
the
case
for
decreasing
the
discount
rate
is
that
if
indeed
future
returns
are
going
to
be
higher,
you
want
greater
contributions
to
the
plan.
M
You
want
more
assets
into
the
plan
and
not
fewer
assets
into
the
plan,
because
this
goes
back
to
the
POV
discussion
right.
It's
hard
to
time
these
things,
but
you
don't
want
another
billion
dollars
from
the
city
when
you
know
when
asset
prices
are
inflated
right,
you
want
it
when
they're
discounted
and
now
City
contributions
are
not
the
same
as
pob,
but
they're
real
dollars
that
actually
get
put
into
the
system
right.
So.
K
A
Decreasing
the
discount
rate
and,
and
the
other
thing
I
would
add,
and
also
to
to
ishwares
point
you
know
it
may
make
sense
to
wait
because
we
do
have
an
inverted
yield
curve.
So,
even
though
the
tenure.
N
Is
high,
you
know
it's.
It's
relatively.
E
B
Managing
our
assets,
but
over
and
about
that,
we
take
a
little
bit
more
risk
because
we
do
have
active
management
and
our
risk
budget
has
run
pretty
low
over
the
last
few
years
at
about
one
percent
or
so
so,
if
you
think
our
our
I'm
getting
a
little
technical
here,
if
you
think
our
Alpha
is
30
basis
points,
our
risk
budget
is
one
percent.
Our
information
ratios.
A
E
A
A
We
change
that
per
asset
class,
not
across
the
whole
portfolio
right,
for
instance,
if
you're
doing
a
great
job
with
the
VC
strategy,
we
could
take
on
a
lot
more
risks
there
because
we're
we
are
getting
access
to
the
top
managers.
That's
that's
exactly
right.
Yeah,
all
right,
David
Quan
over
to
you.
A
Short
comment:
I
might.
P
A
Stated
this
earlier
I
I
totally
understand
that
the
you
know,
forecasting
or
estimating
discount
rate
is
more
about
art
and
a
science
and
I
guess.
I
just
want
to
express
my
thoughts
as
to
why
I'm
comfortable
with
you
know,
keeping
the
current
discount
rate
at
six
six
and
five
eighths
is
that
right,
yeah
I,
think
so,
and
and
that's
because
I
have
a
kind
of
a
more
of
a
naive
way
of
thinking
about
estimating
expected
returns.
A
You
know
I
guess
the
starting
point
is
estimating,
where
interest
rate
is
going
to
be
I
know
people
use
different
interest
rate
numbers
like
what
the
current
short-term
rate
is.
What
the
10-year
rate
is,
but
you
know
to
cut
through
the
noise
I,
usually
just
look
at
what
the
FED
is
indicating
as.
K
A
Its
long-term
neutral
rate
is
going
to
be,
which
you
know
they
published,
that
every
quarter
and
it's
pretty
much
been
consistent
at
two
and
a
half
percent.
So
that's
where
they
expect.
A
On
the
horizon,
obviously
interest
rates
can
go
down
to
zero.
It
can
go
above
four,
who
knows
maybe
by
the
end
of
the
year,
but
you
know
that
fluctuation
evens
out
and
they
expect
two
in
half
and
then.
E
You
could
see
on
this
page,
you
know
which
premium
could
be
all
over
the
map
too,
but
I
think.
Maybe
if
we
can
get,
you
know
people
to
kind
of
give
us
a
good
estimate
a
risk
premium
is
we
can
have
a
better
sense
of
what
the
maybe
appropriate.
You
know
assumption.
J
Should
be
but
my
assumption
historically
I've
kind
of
always
assigned
to
the
market
a
risk
premium
about,
you
know
three
and
a
half
to
four
percent,
something
that's
you
know
more
doable.
A
You
know
that's
a
that's
my
range
and
using
those
assumptions
from
my
point
of
view,
I
think
it
adds
up
to
about
to
be
about
six
and
a
half
thereabouts,
and
that's
why
I'm
kind
of
comfortable
with
the
six
and
five
eighths
assumption
certainly
I
understand
that
this
is
an
exercise
where
we
can
update
the
numbers
on
a
periodic
basis,
and
if
these
numbers
drastically
change,
I
think
we're
very
I'm
very
comfortable
with
you
know
the
the
Consultants
making
these
changes
to
the
recommendation
going
forward.
A
So
just
just
a
point
of
view.
So
before
we
go
back
to
any
hands
they
it
builds.
You
also
wrote
about
this.
This
month,
I
thought
we
usually
had
to
sit
on
this
for
a
month
before
we
voted
that's
up
to
you.
We
do
have
enough
time
built
in
the
schedule
for
you
to
wait
one
month
to
to
vote
on
it
if
you're
undecided,
but
if,
if
the
board's
generally
in
agreement,
the
sooner
we
know
the
the
better
I
I
I'd
like
to
postpone
soon
just
raise
a
couple
of
really
good
points.
K
Laura
we're
committee
to
both
Makita
and
Barris,
because
you're
you're,
you're,
you're
kind
of
right
I
mean
I,
mean
those
forecasts
say
we
should
exceed
that
number
even
over.
Well,
especially.
A
In
the
long
term,
I
see.
N
Yes,
go
jump
in
as
far
yeah,
so
I
I
do
agree
with
David
I
think
the
long-term
expectations
of
both
of
inflation
and
the
neutral
rate.
Well,
they
fluctuated.
A
A
bit
have
been
reasonably
well
anchored
through
all
of
this
on
the
market.
Kind
of
things
affect
this,
you
know
is
doing
the
right
thing
in
terms
of
trying
to
bring
inflation
down
and
where
things
settle
down
at
the
end,
so
I
agree
with
David,
but.
A
Here
right,
one
is
the
point
the
Sunita
raised
in
terms
of
what
the
discount
rate
is,
and
the
second
is
the
point
which
Javi
raised,
which
is
you
know,
it's
a
discount
rate
for
assets
and
liabilities
should.
F
Be
different
and
the
latter
point
I
would
say,
is
it's
a
more
involved.
A
Topic
there's
a
lot
of
actually
academic
discussions
on
these
for
people
who
are
interested,
you
can
just
Google
and
you'll
find
things
you
can
read,
and
it's
not
very
clear.
We
do
know
that
for
corporate
Pension
funds,
the
rules
of
Pharmacy
stringent
on
the
liability
side,
they're
going
to
use
a
risk-free
rate,
they're
discounted
and
guess
what?
A
If
we
did,
that
the
city
is
going
to
be
in
a
big
hole
in
terms
of
the
budget
right
and
but
public
Pension
funds,
I
believe
and
Bill
can
confirm
this
use
the
practice
that
we
do,
which
is
to
use
the
same
discount
rate
for
the
assets
and
liabilities.
That's
not
to
say
that
is
the
correct
thing,
but
that's
what
we
have
done.
That's
what
most
people
seem
to
use
and
I
think
any
changes
to
that.
J
A
J
Much
lengthier
long-term
discussion,
so
I
just
want
to
flag.
There
are
two
separate
discussions
going
on
here.
Well,
well,
that's
right!
As
far
and
and
the
proposal
that
I
had
to
understand
discount
rate
I
understand
liabilities
and
if
they
was
actually
at
a
fudge
Factor.
So
we
would
discount
them
at
the
same
thing,
but
we
might
say
well.
Our
chosen
Discovery
is
6.625,
but
we've
consistently
under
forecast
liabilities,
so
subtract
1,
8
and
set
your
discount
rate
to
6.5,
because
bill
says
we
can
certainly
discount
your
liabilities
back
a
different
rate,
but
we're
back.
A
Now
to
grading
on
a
curve,
grading,
absolute
and
I
think
the
more
we
do
things
the
same.
Everybody
else
does
but
mathematically
you
can
see
if
you
can
just
apply
a
fudge
factor
that
would
work
fine
based
on
history,
all
right.
Anybody
else,
any
more
questions.
This
is
Laura
can
I
mention
something
sorry
I
missed
it.
I'm
here,
I
had
stepped
away
for
a
second
apologies.
G
On
this
topic,
I
was
going
to
mention
you
know.
When
we
look
at
the
total
return
on
assets.
It
is
higher
now
our
expectation
than
it
was
at
the.
G
Given
the
way
that
markets
have
behaved
thus
far
this
year,
but
typically,
if
you
recall,
when
we
look
at
the
expected
return
on
assets,
you're
expecting
that
half
the
time
your
actual.
B
Return
is
going
to
be
lower
than
that
and
half
the
time
above
so
most
folks
are
really
comfortable
with
the
with
a
higher
probability
than
50
percent
of
hitting
your
your
discount
rate
and
across
our
client
base.
We
were
just
talking
about
this
as
a
broad
Consulting
Group
the
other
day,
we're
not
seeing
movement
this
year,
thus
far
on
on
discount
rates.
B
I
think
you
know
one
one
large
state
plan
CIO
said
I'm
going
to
advise
the
board
to
lower
or
to
to
raise
the
rate
as
quickly
as
they
lowered
it,
which
is
about
five
or
ten
years
of
discussion
later
and
I.
Think
so
folks.
They
already
have
a.
A
And
generally
aren't
looking
at
lowering
it,
given
the
new
sort
of
return,
environment
and
expectations
long
term,
but
those
folks
that
already
have
a
lower
one
generally
aren't
going
up
at
this
point
in
time.
Well,
I
would
recommend
the
board
unless
somebody
wants
to
movie.
Do
it
now
I'd,
like
another
month,
I'd
like
to
meet
with
Makita
and
Veris
and
think
through
what
what
you're
saying
Sunita
I
can't
do
it
in
real
time.
I
was
almost
convinced
by
problems.
A
To
consider
for
the
benefit
of
the
entire
board
is,
if
there's
any
sort
of
information
that
you
would
like
gathered
and
presented
to
you
at
the
next
board
meeting
that
you
think
is
not
currently
because
I
presented
here.
That
may
help
you
and
just
understand
and
make
a
decision.
That's
a
good
question.
A
I
just
need
time
to
digest.
Anybody
else
want
to
ask
bill
or
Makita
to
prepare
anything
else.
Yeah
I
I
do
I,
might
sort
of
suggest
one
more
thing
that
to
piggyback
on
what
Israel
said,
I
think
there's
a
third
topic
which
is
as
a
plan
our
discount
rate.
We
want.
We
also
have
a
diff.
A
We
have
this
notion
of
having
stability
from
the
city,
which
I
think
is
a
very
good
objective,
so,
but
that,
as
a
result,
we
Weighing
on
this
number
every
year,
is
it
necessary
for
us
to
weigh
in
on
the
liability
discount
rate
every
year?
If
our
objective
is
stability
and
the
second
question
related
to
that
is,
given
our
funded
status,
I
mean
our
incentive
is
not
to
you
know,
increase
or
to
increase
this
rate
from
six
and
five
eighths.
A
But
you
know
how
do
we
weigh
that
against
the
the
process
we
have
now,
which
is
essentially
it's
based
on
expected
asset
returns?
Maybe
there's
a
different
way
of
thinking
about
liability,
discounting
I'm,
not
suggesting
this
shouldn't
be
an
input,
but
there
are
other
inputs
which
are
which
we
are
sort
of
not
necessarily
have
any
sort
of
guidelines
around
whether
it's
80
funded.
Then
we
shouldn't
move
it.
We
should
be
in
this
range.
You
know
something
like
that.
A
Well,
a
very
interesting
to
ask
that
question.
One
of
the
things
that
I've
asked
for
Voodoo
to
do
and
of
sexual
root
about
is
I'd
like
to
know
when
the
present
say
decade
is
two
Sigma
off
the
past.
A
It
turns
out
one
of
the
reasons
we
lowered
our
discount
rate
was
we
were
one
of
the
first
punch
plans
God
even
before
I
got
here
to
say
you
know
what
there's
something
screwy
going
on
with
the
inflation
rate
and
and
across
all
these
metrics
there's
ways
to
know
that
the
present
and
therefore
the
future
is
deviating
from
the
past,
and
that
to
me
is
the
biggest
argument
that
says.
We
really
should
look
at
this
every
year
because
you're
right.
A
If,
if,
if,
if
the
past,
predicts
the
future,
then
you
lock
onto
volatility,
you
just
stay
there
forever
and
maybe
add
more
or
less
staff
to
generate
more
or
less
Alpha,
but
we
saw
and
you're
old
enough
to
seeing
that
inflation
in
the
90s
and
then
early
2000s
and
up
until
almost
present
had
done
something
well.
A
common
old
man
and
I
never
saw
this
before
and
you
look
at
the
history
of
going
back
to
the
1890s.
A
We've
never
seen
him
like
this
before
so
there
is
that
argument
that
says
that
you
know
the
future
doesn't
match
the
present,
but
it
Rhymes
it's
up
to
us
to
figure
out
where
it's
the
same
or
it's
different.
Does
that
make
sense.
A
A
They've
generally
tried
to
do
that
to
be.
You
know,
not
have
a
rate,
that's
no
higher
than
the
50th
percentile
yeah.
We
should
have
knocked
down
drag
out
until
you
probably
were
there
between
Vince
and
me
and
Vince.
Finally,
convinced
me
when
he
just
said:
look
for
underfunded.
So,
let's
you
know
bet
a
little
more
conservatively
and
that
carried
the
day,
it's
often
somewhere
in
the
50
to
55
probability
range
as
well.
Yeah.
Yes,
if
that's
the
case,
foreign.
A
Let's
pick
it
up
next
month,
I
would
like
time
to
really
digest
what
was
said
if
that's
okay
with
it
buddy
and
can
I
throw
one
suggestion
in
here,
please
longer
term,
we
keep
having
a
discussion
about
whether
we
should
be
using
the
expected
return
to
Discount
the
liabilities
and
what
the
corporate
sector
does
and
other
things.
A
That's
really
a
much
longer
conversation
and
would
be
a
great
topic
for
a
retreat
or
a
separate
a
sort
of
presentation
than
than
what
we're
doing
here,
because
it
really
does
involve
some
bringing
in
a
lot
of
other
information.
There's
the
academic
papers,
there's
also
a
bunch
of
material
from
The
Academy
of
actress
on
it
and
and
how
the
different
models
work
and
what
the
implications
are.
A
So
I'd
suggest
that
we
park
that
particular
discussion
for
a
retreat
and
a
a
longer
discussion
so
that
we
can
really
get
into
it
and
look
at
the
different
points
of
view.
I
think
that's
a
great
idea!
Bill!
Let's
get
this
look
back
from,
say
25
to
30
Years
first,
so
we
can
say
well.
This
is
what
actually
happened,
because
then
we
could
take
that
I.
Think,
as
a
case
study
in
in
how
we
should
think
about,
it
makes
sense.
A
I
mean
sure
we
can
blend
the
25
to
30
year
history,
with
the
discussion
of
the
liability
discount
rate,
yeah
they're
really
kind
of
separate
topics
yeah.
Just
so
you
guys
know
God.
It's
been
how
long
you've
been
working
with
this
now
Bill
a
decade,
you
came
on
I
think
right
right
about
the
time
I
did
yeah
Bill's
not
only
been
saying
you're
the
riskiest
plan
for
10
years,
Bill's
also
been
saying
for
10
years.
A
Well,
yes,
you
should
think
about
them
separately,
but
there
are
different
reasons
for
using
different
discount
mates,
and
so
you
yeah,
you
need
to
understand
why
you
know
what
you're
using
it
for
and
why
and
how
that
all
fits
in
great
all
right,
let's
go
ahead.
This
was
a
great
discussion.
A
I
got
pinged
by
Maytag
and
Harvey
we're
going
to
bump
4H
to
next
month.
This
has
been
a
busy
meeting,
but
but
next
month
should
be
quieter,
so
it's
only
turned
4f
and
4G
over
to
you
Bill.
Do
you
you
don't
need
a
decision
on
the
on
the
inflation
or
anything
like
that
right
now,
I
I
think
we're
going
to
defer
the
decision
to
next
month.
Okay,
so
that
people
can
contemplate
I'm,
not
sure
that
there's
any
additional
information
we've
been
asked.
A
But
if
there
is,
you
know,
let
us
know
in
the
interim
and
we
can
put
it
together-
yeah,
because
that,
if
you
don't
mind
my
bill
I
want
to
take
some
time
to
digest
this.
We
are
living
in
interesting
times.
Oh
go
Roberto
go
ahead,
thank
you,
Mr,
chair
and
and
his
heart.
Usually
it's
really
easy
and
exciting
to
go
right
after
Bill's
presentation.
A
Not
today,
though,
because
it
was
very
entertaining
and
exciting
and
a
lot
of
discussion,
so
I'm
gonna
try
my
best
regarding
for
if,
in
in
terms
of
the
disability
retirement
process,
this
particular
discussion
actually
deals
with
the
role
of
the
board
medical
advisor.
You
may
recall
that
about
two
years
ago
we
we
came
forward
with
the
result
of
an
RFP,
where
we
were
quite
lucky
and
surprised
that
we
found
one
alternative
for
board
medical
advisor
and
double
that
was
whs,
which
we
ended
up.
A
Contracting
with
that
was
almost
a
year
and
a
half
or
two
years
ago
and
I
have
kept
the
boar
prices
to
understand
on
the
onboarding
and
how
the
transition
has
taken
place
and
I.
Think
I
also
mentioned
that
we
were
having
some
challenges
through
that
process
and
I
was
going
to
come
later
in
front
of
the
board
with
recommendations.
A
So
this
is
where
we
are,
if,
if
staff
can
actually
call
the
the
memo
to
the
screen,
I'm
not
going
to
go
through
the
memo
in
detail,
but
you
can
see
in
in
in
in
the
memo
the
analysis
and
also
the
the
recommendations.
A
We
actually
have
had
some
challenges
with
on
boarding
not
only
whs
but
have
been
actually
disappointed
with
their
their
work
and
the
inefficiency
not
only
from
the
administrator
standpoint,
which
is
part
of
their
contract,
but
really
also
the
work
associated
with
the
medical
analysis.
To
the
extent
that,
obviously,
over
time,
the
the
backlog
of
the
disability
applications
have
actually
increased
the
memo
I
do
want
to
make
a
side
point
here.
I
know,
I
think
show
is
still
at
the
meeting.
A
You
all
realize
that
the
San
Jose
Municipal
Court
right
now
as
he
as
he
stands,
is
not
the
process
that
we
are
following
the
process
that
the
call
actually
call
for
was
the
process
that
was
agreed
to
by
the
unions
and
the
city
a
few
years
back
where
they
were
going
to
be
taking
the
decision
making
from
the
boards
to
a
three
board
medical
panel
that
never
came
to
Vision,
because
we
we,
as
in
other
words,
went
out
twice
to
the
market,
if
not
three
times
and
the
city
did
it
once
and
they
were
not.
A
We
could
not
find
any
vendors
that
actually
met
the
requirements,
so
I
just
want
to
kind
of
I.
Think
Park
that
to
the
side
right
now
that
the
call
as
a
rates
right
now
is
not
what
we
are
working
on.
What
we
have
on
this
ability
application
process
is
what
we
have
had
for
years,
which
is
we
use
a
board
medical
advisor.
A
We
have
a
committee
that
listens
to
the
applications
and
the
applicants,
and
then
those
applications
come
to
your
board
did
free
the
straightforward
recommendation
to
you
here
this
well,
it
was
this
morning,
and
this
is
afternoon
we
think
because
of
our
relationship
and
the
results
of
working
with
whs
and,
quite
honestly,
the
disappointment
on
on
the
results.
A
A
In
addition,
we
would
like
to
also
the
board
support
on
on
Contracting,
with
exam
Works
to
include
disability
application.
Processing
Services,
if
you
bore,
is
actually
in
support
these
recommendations.
Certainly
we
will
try
a
very,
very
reasonable
transition
between
whs
and
exam
words
for
for
that
service.
In
terms
of
the
specific
recommendation
for
the
political
advice,
or
is
it's
actually
twofold,
the
first
one
is
I.
A
Second,
we
have
have
a
very
difficult
time
in
the
past
when
we
go
out
to
request
services
for
biomedical
advisor.
So
when
you
actually
entertain
those
two
situations
or
issues,
actually
it
makes
sense
to
then
consider
eliminating
the
broad
medical
advisor
role
from
the
disability
application
process.
So,
in
closing,
in
summary,
we
will
like
you
support
on
on
those
two
recommendations
and
again
I'm,
assuming
that
you
have
read
the
the
the
memo
and
all
the
documents
that
have
been
included.
A
A
Floors
open,
Mr,
chair,
dick
Santos
and
I'm
here
with
retiree
president
Ray
storms.
If
you
can
hook
put
the
whole
memo,
there
are
a
little
more
that
we
could
see
it.
Of
course,
many
things
come
to
our
mind
before
I
say
any
more
Let
Me
Get
president's
storms
on
on
the
air
here
go
ahead,
Ray,
hello,
again,
yeah
I
did
have
some
questions.
A
What
are
words
getting
rid
of
the
medical
board
advisor?
What
I
look
because
I
go
to
the
committee
I
see
the
committee
I've
been
going
to
for
years.
The
panel.
That's
one
less
person
on
there,
but
the
problem
I
haven't
been
getting
rid
of
rid
of
the
medical
board
advisor.
A
Is
he
can
answer
questions
in
disagreements
on
the
medical,
the
ime
or
Unity,
whatever
they're
doing
you
have
somebody
that
that
retirees
attorney
can
ask
questions
of
without
him
there?
If
all
we
have
is
the
ime?
Are
we
going
to
represent
from
the
ime
there
to
discuss?
Is
I
am
e?
Does
that
make
sense?
A
Because
if
we
don't,
if
we
have
to
have
somebody
to
to
look
at
it
to
review
it
and
then
discuss
it
and
say
yay
or
nay,
I
know
it's
the
panel
of
five
panel,
but
we
need
somebody
there
to
discuss
the
issues
without
that
board
that
medical
advisor
there's
nobody
there
actually
at
the
meeting
that
that's
my
concern
and
the
other
concern
is:
is
it
a
conflict
of
interest
putting
all
of
that
all
in
with
exam?
Is
there
a
conflict
interest
there?
A
Well,
you've
been
together.
Let
me
let
me
address
that
and
and
again,
first
of
all,
the
Imes
they're
independent
medical
examiners
right
so
the
independent
second.
If
we
do
contact
with
some
Works,
we
will
have
the
ime
available
at
the
meeting,
so
the
ime
can
actually
address
any
questions
from
the
applicant
of
his
to
her
attorney
and
then.
Thirdly,
as
I
said
in
my
introductory
comments,
this
is
sort
of
the
standard
across
the
state.
A
A
That
has
been
the
San
Jose
system,
because
there
was
actually
a
department
when
there
was
an
actual
doctor
that
not
only
provide
that
service,
but
he
in
fact
actually
examine
the
applicants,
and
that
happened
for
many
many
years
until
a
couple
of
years
ago,
when
the
city
actually
went
away
from
that
approach
and
actually
deleted
that
department,
we
were
just
quite
lucky:
Ray
that
the
board
medical
advisor
that
we
were
able
to
contract
was
was
actually
the
city
doctor
before
doctor
that
which
you
know
I
thought
she
did
excellent
work.
A
But
you
know
going
back
and
looking
at
at
where
we
at
today
they
challenge
you
are
actually
finding
vendors
that
could
actually
meet
the
requirements
to
be
the
more
broad
medical
advisor
and
with
the
challenges
that
we
have
encountered
with
whs
and
the
disappointment
of
the
services.
We
think
is
the
more
appropriate
way
to
go.
How
much
of
a
backlog
has
whs
created?
A
A
I
do
have
some
numbers,
Sandra
I,
don't
know
if
I
mean
I,
don't
know
that
we
need
to
get
into
specific
numbers,
but
I'm
gonna,
guess
if
I'm
mistaken,
please
call
recommend
gonna,
guess
that
the
background
may
have
increased
I'm,
gonna
educate
against
about
at
least
20
from
before,
and
so
that's
actually
a
consideration
now
I
do
want
to
say-
and
this
is
something
that
we
have
to
work
on
staff
with
your
board.
A
Some
I
don't
know
to
what
extent
maybe
Sandra
can
comment
on
these
numbers.
Some
of
this
backlog
is
actually
created,
some
of
it
by
members
that
somehow,
through
the
process,
defer
the
application,
meaning
they
actually
got
to
the
point
where
they
they
actually
went
to
the
ime
and
when
the
information
that
was
provided
was
not
so
much
wasn't
that
clear
it
wasn't
that
positive.
A
They
sort
of
delayed
the
process
and
stop
the
process,
and
so
it's
really
on
us
as
a
staff,
to
recommend
to
your
board
that
those
kind
of
cases
be
given
a
timeline
for
the
lack
of
a
better
word,
I'm
going
to
say
six
months,
and
if
they
don't
move
forward,
then
we
just
take
them
out
of
the
backlog
and
if
they
want
to
apply
for
the
disability
again,
they
will
have
to
do
it
from
the
beginning.
So
some
of
that
back
it
is
impacted
by
those
numbers
Senator.
A
Do
you
have
any
any
other
comments
besides
in
addition
to
those
yeah,
so
we
have
I
think
it
knows
that
bucket.
You
were
talking
about
Roberto.
We
have
13
that
we
refer
to
as
deferred
and
that
the
applicant
has
placed
the
application
on
hold
for
their
reasons
and
and
has
not
followed
up
to
continue.
We
and
I
in
terms
of
the
backlog.
It
looks
generally
like
we
and
I
would
say
because
in
since
we
started
with
work,
Health
Solutions,
they
have
completed
one
application
for
us
in
that
time.
A
So
they've
done
one
I
think
in
that
time
we've
probably
got
about
10
new
ones,
10
or
11
new
applications,
so
the
backlog
increased
that
net
gain
of
about
nine
or
ten
during
that
time,
so
numbers
might
not
be
exactly
right,
but
I
think
that
gives
you
a
general
idea
we're
not
keeping
up
with
at
least
the
new
ones
that
are
coming
in
right
now.
How
many
are
on
the?
A
How
many
total
applications
do
we
have
right
now
pending
right
now,
pending
we
have
workhouse
Solutions
has
as
31
right
now
and
then
we
have
a
hundred
that
we
have
not
that
we
have
not
given
to
work
Health
Solutions
that
when
they're
ready
for
more,
we
will
start
chipping
away
with
and
then
obviously,
at
the
same
time
we
have
new
ones
coming
in
every
month,
so
including
work
Health
Solutions
a
little
over
a
hundred
and
thirty
here's.
My
concern.
Okay,
I,
want
to
talk
from
a
personal
perspective.
Mine
took
four
years
to
get
through.
A
Okay
one
year
was
a
mistake
by
Dr
roscom.
He
thought
he
had
completed
mine,
but
he
hadn't
the
problem.
I'm.
Seeing
now
is
I
have
people
that
are
six
seven,
eight
years
and
they're
like
they
can't
get
on
with
their
life
and
it
I.
If,
if
you've
never
been
through
this
process,
you
don't
understand
your
life
is
on
hold,
because
you
have
doctor's
appointments
this
that
me
and
you
can't
move
on
I
when
I
got
to
the
point
of
my
my
four
years.
I
almost
gave
up.
I
almost
said
just
forget
it.
A
That's
how
disgusted
I
was
with
the
system
and
now
I
hear
back.
Then
we
had
125
people
on
the
log.
I
just
talked
to
a
gentleman
yesterday.
I
forget
what
you
call
well
you
term,
when
they're
out
of
time,
when
that,
when
they're
no
longer
drawing
funds
he's
on
his
own
doesn't
have
insurance
and
he
doesn't
have
a
pension.
A
Those
people
need
to
be
taken
care
of
we're
doing
a
disservice
by
not
getting
them
through
the
system,
whether
it
gets
it
or
not.
It's
indifferent.
He
needs
to
be
put
through
the
system.
How
many
shows
do
we
have
right
now
currently
I
forget
what
the
what
they
call
48,
whatever
yeah
4850
48.50?
How
many
4850
do
we
have
so
so
Ray?
This
is.
A
This
is
Drew
I
think
what
you're
hearing
from
Roberto
is
a
a
plan
to
fix
that
I
think
look
when
we
when
Dick
and
I
redesigned
disability
system,
we
streamlined
it
and
then
the
city
came
in
and
said
here:
do
something
impossible
right
and
I
think
what
Roberto
is
saying
is
look
it's
it's
time
we
we
Knuckles
down
right,
Roberto
and
fix
this
I
think
this
is
the
proposal
to
fix
it.
Am
I,
Wrong
Roberto.
That's
that's
certainly
part
of
it
and
you
are
correct
Ray.
A
But
let
me
just
add
you
raise
an
issue
about
this
gentleman.
We
do
try
very
hard
when
there's
a
financial
hardship
to
bring
those
items
up
front.
So
if
the
member
has
a
financial
hardship
because
they're
not
collecting
right
I
mean
they
may
be
able
to
somehow
survive
from
their
spouse
or
someone
else,
but
if
they
have
a
financial
hardship,
we
will
put
it
on
front.
A
One
of
the
challenges
has
been
that
this
whole
process
and
work
with
whs
has
not
worked
as
expected,
and
so
it's
increasing
the
backlog-
and
this
is
you,
know,
I,
as
as
trusty
Lance
I
indicated,
eliminating
the
gore
medical
advisor
role
from
the
process
is
going
to
have
a
huge
impact,
but
by
no
means
it
means
that
the
backlog
is
going
to
go
down
in
six
months
or
a
year,
but
it
will
go
a
long
way
on
making
sure
that
we
can
start
getting
that
backlog
down.
A
In
your
reference
to
the
six
or
seven
years,
you're,
absolutely
right,
I
have
spoken
to
staff
and
I
know
Sandra.
Is
there
Barbara?
Is
there
and
there's
no
reason
why
an
application
should
take
more
than
two
or
three
years,
except
for
a
very,
very
specific
situation
right?
A
So
what
I
have
found
over
time
that
when
there
are
six
seven
years,
Ray
and
and
this
is
one
of
the
issues
that
I
encountered
when
I
first
came
to
work
for
the
boards
and
the
members
10
years
ago-
was
in
my
experience
in
my
other
jobs
when
you
file
for
disability
many
times
as
you're
well
known,
especially
in
the
police
and
Fireside
members,
have
different
parts
of
the
body
that
they
find
this
ability
for
right.
A
Well,
I
was
trying
to
streamline
the
process
and
say:
listen.
You
may
have
net,
you
may
have
ankle,
you
may
have
bad.
You
may
have
a
knee.
You
need
to
choose
one,
let's
just
move
on.
Well,
they
wouldn't
do
that.
They
would
just
keep
five
six
seven
and
they
needed
to
go
through
all
of
them,
cimes
for
all
of
them
and
get
MMA
for
all
of
them
before
the
process.
A
The
the
process
can
continue,
but
that
had
an
impact
I
don't
know
that
it
would
have
a
six
seven
year
impact,
but
it
certainly
impacted
the
backlog.
So
that's
another
thing
that
I've
been
trying
to
do.
Sometimes
you
have
different
parts,
but
you
go
to
see
your
doctors.
You
have
an
idea
which
of
those
areas
well
at
least
keep
it
to
one
or
two
that
are
the
most
relevant
one.
So
you
can
keep
up
the
process
and
finalize
it
as
soon
as
possible.
A
I
mean
it
is
on
us
to
make
sure
that
the
process
is
clear
and
can
help
the
members,
but
I
can
tell
you
from
my
beginning
10
years
ago.
That
was
one
of
the
biggest
reasons
why
it
took
so
long
for
a
particular
application.
It
was
because
he
wouldn't
come
to
the
committee
until
today,
all
the
specific
areas
that
they
file
for
were
actually
reviewed
Roberto.
A
So
here
we
are
today
very
successful
with
Dr
chairman,
so
why
is
the
changes
we're
blessed
to
have
respirator
because
he
has
so
much
experience
and
I'm
very,
very
happy
with
that
and
what
Drew
us
together?
We've
made
this
dreamline
and
things
are
working
well,
you
got
to
remember
now.
Are
you?
Are
we
going
to
do
something
new
without
a
medical
doctor
being
there,
because
I
have
concerns
about
these
sensitive
areas?
Now,
who
knows
where
I'm
going
you
police
officers
and
firefighters
know
where
I'm
going?
A
Only
so
to
me,
the
system
we
have
has
been
working.
It's
not
broken
I
want
to
keep
it
going
and
I'll
yield
the
floor
so
so
Hand
of
it
Roberto
didn't
I
hear
you
say
that
under
this
new
Pro
System
there
will
be
somebody
a
doctor
on
the
call.
Didn't
you
say
that
correct
the
ime
that
writes
the
analysis
for
your
comedian,
Deborah
will
be
on
the
call
or
the
meeting.
Yes,
yeah
I
think
I
think
that
so
I
think
you're
right.
A
Dick
we
got
very
unlucky
when
Susan,
tiermann,
retired
and
and
Ross
Doss
is
getting
it
done.
So
we're
still
going
to
have
somebody
there
it's
going
to
be
an
ime
and
Roberto
I.
Guess
then
the
question
that
that
Dick's
kind
of
raising
is
will
we
continue
looking
in
the
background
to
find
another
Susan
chairman
no
I
mean
that's
that's
the
whole
reason
for
this
recommendation
is
when
you
bore.
If,
if
your
board
does
agree
with
the
recommendation,
we
would
change
the
process
to
actually
get
away
from
the
biomedical
advisor.
A
It
doesn't
mean
that
we're
not
going
to
be
receiving
a
medical
analysis.
It's
just
going
to
be
relying
on
the
ime
analysis
now
on
ime
and
then
a
subsequent
board
medical
advisor
announcer,
oh
I,
see
yeah
well,
so
dick
I
mean
dick
and
Ray
we're
going
to
have
somebody
there,
but
it's
going
to
be
an
ime
I
mean
remember
dick.
When
we
run
brand
for
a
couple
of
months
in
between
Susan
and
Raj
Das,
the
I
meet
stuff
was
the
the
reports
are
pretty
good.
A
I
was
impressed
with
reports.
We
don't
know
what
will
happen
if
there
were
reports,
we're
talking
about
costs
or
Services.
You
know,
services
are
really
important.
Cost
is
always
an
issue,
but
you
know
for
me
when
people
give
25
and
30
years
of
their
lives
and
the
rest
of
their
land
is
coming
up
for
a
judgment.
It's
important
that
we
have
the
best
medical
people
possible
to
make
Drew
and
I
understand
the
vote.
A
Well,
I
think
I
think
look
I'm
going
to
paraphrase
if
you're
watching
this
forage
I'll
owe
you
fear,
as
Dr
rajas
Susan
tiermann
was
that
person,
but
rajdas
is
not
and
and
part
of
the
whole
problem
right,
you're,
saying
Roberto,
it's
really
really
hard
to
find
the
Susan
chairman
if
I
rather,
yes,
it
is
extremely
hard.
We
were
really
lucky
extremely
lucky
to
have
that
achievement.
You
are
correct
on
that.
A
The
doctor
does
has
experience.
We
work
well
together.
If
he
has
the
opportunity
I
know
he
can
fill
those
shoes.
I
I
I
agreed
that
he
has
experience
trustee
Santos
I,
don't
I'm,
not
suggesting
that
he
does
not.
In
fact,
I
have
had
very
difficult
conversations
with
him.
The
last
few
days
on
this
specific
issue.
The
fact
remains
that
we
have
been
disappointed
from
their
services,
including
the
efficiencies
not
only
from
the
administrative
part
of
the
of
whs,
but
also
the
work
from
the
medical
analysis
standpoint.
A
It's
just
not
moving
and
I.
Just
quite
honestly
do
not
see
an
improvement
going
forward
and
I'm
just
you
know,
as
I
mentioned
you're
born.
The
committee
has
always
worked
under
this
process,
because
the
city
had
a
medical
director
right
which
he
actually
or
she
even
examined
the
applicants.
That
is
just
not
the
norm
for
the
other
systems
and
they
have
worked
really
well
and
I
might
have
I.
A
Don't
disagree
with
you,
trustee
Santos,
because
I
do
know
the
fedastos
good
work
and
Dr
chiman
was
just
outstanding
in
her
evaluations,
but
in
most
cases
in
many
cases
these
applications
are
pretty
straightforward.
They're,
not
that
many
instances
where
you
have
to
have
that
many
discussions.
A
You
have
an
independent
medical
examiner
that
person
doesn't
necessarily
know
police
and
fire
occupation.
That's
the
biggest
issue
we
have
chairman
does
and
so
does,
and
if
we're
going
to
give
up
costs
for
services,
I
got
a
concern.
It
should
be
I
point
well
taken.
I
can
guarantee
you
that
we're
not
looking
at
this
just
as
a
difference
between
costs
and
service.
This
is
not
just
cost
related.
A
I
I
think
this
is
an
appropriate
process.
I
wouldn't
recommend
that
if
I
didn't
think
that
it
was
an
appropriate
approach
to
be
taken
by
our
office
and
your
board,
but
understood
I
think
I
think
we're.
What
we
all
have
come
to
realize
is
that
we
had
a
unicorn
in
in
Susan
tiermann,
because
Ray
is
saying-
and
we
agree-
Ray
well,
you
gotta
process
the
volume
and
you're
saying
dick.
A
Can
we
all
agree
to
you
yet,
but
you
got
to
have
the
personal
touch
and
only
Dr
tiermann
was
able
to
give
us
both
I
mean
Raj.
Josh
will
give
us
Personal
Touch,
but
he
can't
handle
the
volume,
and
so
you
know
I
think
the
whole
point
the
city
made
was
go
out
and
find
a
bunch
of
Susan
tiermann's.
Only
they
don't
exist.
I
I
think
we
were
unusually
lucky
with
tiermann.
That's
what
I
was
telling
us
I
see.
A
No
reason
to
doubt
that
let's
do
this
Mr
chair,
let's
yield
the
floor
to
Mr
Wilson,
some
others
get
to
their
input.
Thank
you.
Yeah
go
ahead.
Let
me
Hey
guys
hang
on
one.
Second,
hey,
let's
take
a
comment
or
two
but
Roberto.
We
used
to
break
in
a
minute
or
two
for
the
resetting
of
the
tape
right,
correct
at
one
o'clock.
So
I
think
someone
has
some
comments.
They
have
three
more
minutes
and
then
we
have
to
stop
from
1
to
105..
Yeah
Dave.
A
You've
had
your
hand
up
forever
go
ahead.
Dave
all
right
mine
will
be
quick
anyway.
First
of
all,
I
applaud,
Roberto
and
staff
for
looking
at
this,
because
obviously
the
members
are
suffering
if
you've
got
130
backlog
and
whs
has
gotten
to
one.
So
that's
an
issue:
I'm.
Okay,
with
the
ime
process.
I
like
it,
it's
it's.
What
like
Roberta
said
our
what
peers
are
doing
across
the
state.
I
read
the
memo
and
it
seems
like
it's
working
well
in
other
agencies,
I'm
good
with
that.
A
The
one
question
I
had
and
it
may
be
for
a
council
is
and
I'm
going
off
the
top
of
my
head
on
memory.
So
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
please
but
I
believe
the
charter
specified
that
we
had
to
have
a
three
doctor
panel.
If
we
do
something
like
this,
does
that
violate
it
and
open
us
up
to
anything
so
you're
correct
that
the
San
Jose
Municipal
Charter
does
require
us
to
have
a
three
member
medical
panel.
A
But
the
problem
is
as
Roberto
alluded
to
earlier
is
that
we
did
try
to
RFP
and
bid
that
it's
a
it
turned
out
to
be
an
impossibility.
So
because
it's
an
impossibility
to
satisfy
the
Mandate
of
the
statute,
we
we
are
able
to
move
forward
because
we
do
have
a
fiduciary
duty
to
administer
the
benefits
and
process
them
in
expedient
way.
A
Excellent,
excellent
I
agree
with
that.
Do
we
know
what
the
city's
position
is
on
this
proposal?
Have
they
weighed
in
The
Proposal
before
you
this
this
afternoon
about
eliminating
the
role
of
the
board
medical
advisor,
correct
and-
and
we
do
not
know
and
I
was
hoping
that
Cheryl's
day
and
the
meeting,
so
she
could
call
me
if
she
wanted
to
but
yeah.
We
do
not
know
what
the
board
the
city's
position
is
on
on
this
issue.
A
Okay,
thanks
and
like
I,
said
I'm
all
for
the
memo.
I
I
read
it
all
the
way
through
and
you
have
my
support
thanks,
Roberto
great
Harvey.
Can
you
get
done
in
30
seconds,
because
we
got
a
break
for
the
tape
yeah,
just
a
question
for
staff
to
confirm.
There's
been
some
discussion
about
the
the
delay
to
members
and
that
impact,
and
it
certainly
is
impactful
but
am
I
correct
in
understanding
that,
while
the
disability
application
is
pending,
we
are
paying
out
the
service
benefit
at
the
service
retirement
level.
A
Isn't
that
correct?
Well,
I
mean
it
depends
on
the
particular
case
Council.
If
the
member
has
retired
yes-
and
they
are
there
by
service
correct,
but
even
in
their
application,
aren't
we
paying
the
service
retirement
if
they're
in
retirement,
if
they
file
for
a
service
retirement?
Yes,
we
are
hey
I'm,
gonna,
I'm
gonna
exert.
Let
me
exert
privilege,
hey,
let's
take
a
break
for
five
minutes
from
Brookstone
pick
it
up
where
we
left
off.
My
watch
just
thing:
that's
the
hour,
so
five
minute
break
here,
buddy.
A
A
A
A
A
A
Get
back
to
work,
trustees.
I
know
it's
been
a
long
meeting,
but
this
is
the
last
agenda
item.
After
this
we'll
just
do
ab361
and
then
Chairman's,
death
notices
and
I
I
think
there
are
no
committee
reports
just
receiving
files,
I'm
sorry
route
to
Harvey,
I
cut
you
off.
Why
don't
you
get
back
to
what
you're?
No
no
yeah
I
wanted
to
get
back
to
council's
question?
Yes,
you
are
correct.
We
do
pay
service
retirements
to
members
that
file
applications
while
their
this
video
application
is
in
process.
That
is
correct.
Yes,.
A
Drew
I'll
have
a
few
comments.
Yeah
sure
jump
in
so
I
I
completely
understand
and
hear
what
dick
and
Drew
are
saying
about
the
the
the
value
in
the
board
medical
advisor
and
what
Dr
tiermann
has
provided.
You
know
in
the
past,
although
I'm
not
on
the
committee
I've
only
sat
through
a
handful
of
you
know
the
committee's
disability
committee
meetings,
I
was
pre
during
pre-covered
time
and
and
I
sensed
the
value
there.
A
Thinking
back
to
the
our
the
last
RFP
that
we
have
come
across
now
as
students
back
up
I
mean
there's,
there's
two
there's
there's
two
issues:
I
mean
one.
Is
you
know
the
original
the
original
Governor
says
we
need
a
three
panel
doctor.
We
know
that's
not
working
out
the
city's
been
working
for
years
with
the
unions
and
trying
to
put
multiple
rfps
out
to
get
this
panel
doctor
and
it's
just
not
working,
and
so
in
the
meantime
we
continue
doing
with
what
we're
doing
now.
A
The
hard
part
is
the
last
the
last
RFP
that
we
did
to
replace
Dr
tiermann.
We
only
had
three
results
back
Dr
doss's
group,
and
there
was
one
out
of
state
there
might
have
been
two
out
both
of
them
might
have
been
out
of
state.
A
One
of
them
didn't
have
an
idea
of
you
know
what
the
true
work
was
going
to
be
entailed
in
it,
and
so
they
really
didn't
qualify
the
other
one.
It
was
sort
of
the
same
boat,
but
then
also
they
didn't
want
to
attend
the
meetings
in
person,
and
so
we
were
having
more
issues.
Okay,
what
this
is
showing
me
is
really.
We
only
had
one
candidate
there's,
not
many
people
out
there
that
do
this
type
of
work,
and
so
it's
just
is.
A
A
My
understanding,
San
Jose,
not
San,
Jose
Fresno
city,
has
it
does
the
same
process
and-
and
it
works
really
well
for
them-
I'm
willing
to
I'm
willing
to
try
that
out,
because
the
the
one
file
that
they
have
done
over
I
don't
know
Sandra.
When
do
they,
the
contract
go
in
effect,
March,
April,
May,
March,
okay,
late
February,
late,
late,
February,
yeah,
yeah,
so
one
file
in
six
months,
that's
just
not
acceptable
and
it's
hurting.
It's
hurting
our
membership.
A
We've
heard
from
Ray
talking
about
the
frustrations
of
the
members
that
he
hears
on
his
side
and-
and
we
have
to
do
something
about
that.
I
know
if
I
was
a
vendor
and
I
got
hired
to
do
a
job.
My
my
best
foot
is
going
to
go
forward
right
away.
I
mean
I'm
going
to
be
throwing
a
lot
of
resources
out
to
make
a
good
first
impression.
A
Okay,
this
hasn't
happened
on
two
fronts:
one
when
the
contract
negotiation
was
going
on,
it
sounds
like
that
was
dragged
out
longer
than
it
should
have,
and
then
two
now
that
they're
on
boarded
they've
only
done
one
file.
That's
not
acceptable.
Our
membership
is
hurting,
and
so
we
have
to.
We
have
to
move
on
and
and
find
another
solution.
A
If
we
have
to
go
back
to
Dr
Dawson's
group
multiple
times
to
try
and
get
Corrections
or
trying
to
you
know,
get
them
to
perform
better.
That's
that's
a
red
flag.
A
Do
I,
have
concerns
going
forward
about
the
more
difficult
cases
that
might
come
forward,
especially
around
PTSD.
Absolutely
absolutely:
are
our
cases
a
little
bit
different?
You
know
police
and
fire.
You
know
compared
to
Federated
just
because
of
our
job
descriptions.
A
Absolutely-
and
you
know,
there's
I
know
when
I
go
see
workers
comp
doctors
on
at
times
they
they
have
no
idea
what
our
job
duties
are,
and
you
know
they'll
put
us
to
either
light
duty
or
full
Duty,
not
realizing
what
we
actually
do,
and
so
that's
an
important
part
and
that's
something
that
we're
at
the
maybe
work
with
or
work
through
as
we
go
forward.
A
I
think
at
this
point,
I
mean
staff
Works
hand
in
hand
with
these
people
every
single
day,
and
we
have
to
you,
know,
take
in
consideration.
You
know
their
opinions
on
on
what
has
been
going
on
in
the
background.
Dick
and
Drew
definitely
knows
more
than
I.
Do
because
they're
more
intimate
you
know
with
you
know,
with
the
day-to-day
operations,
but
I
I
feel
like
we
have
to
it.
I
feel
like
staying.
A
Pat
is
only
going
to
hurt
our
services
and
our
members
I'm
willing
to
go
forward
with
a
recommendation
here,
but
it's
going
to
sort
of
be
in
the
same
recommendations
that
we
had
with
Dr
Dawson's
group
when
we
voted
on
his
contract
that
hey
we're
going
to
keep
a
close
eye
to
it
and
if
there's,
if,
if
we
don't
think
it's
going
smoothly
or
we
find
issues,
then
we're
gonna
have
to
revisit
revisit
it.
So
yeah
I
would
like.
A
A
A
Hi
a
couple
of
comments:
first,
the
ime
experience
that
I
have
participated
in
for
the
two
City
of
Fresno
systems
has
shown
a
marked
sensitivity
by
the
various
ime
examiners
to
the
police
and
fire
context.
I
had
the
same
concerns
originally
that
board
member
Santos
has
expressed
but
have
have
found
those
concerns
to
be
unfounded
in
the
SP.
In
the
many
many
cases,
Police
and
Fire
cases
that
I've
seen
there
and
in
one
sense,
though,
we
don't
want
to
be
outcome.
A
Determinative
I've,
seen
some
greater
flexibility,
I'll
use
that
Termini
ime
reports,
then
in
reports
by
the
board's
medical
advisor,
including
here
at
San
Jose,
just
just
to
mention
that
I
also
do
want
to
underscore
the
dimensions
of
the
difficulties
with
whs
that
I've
encountered.
A
I
I
do
not
participate
in
the
processing
the
Gathering
of
medical
records,
so
I
do
not
no
do
not
have
any
concrete
information
or
or
or
advice,
or
observations
to
offer,
though
I
as
well
as
you
can
see,
the
great
lack
of
progress
there
and
the
lack
of
cases
coming
forward.
I
can
only
comment
on
the
rather
small
number
of
reports
that
have
come
forward
either
in
draft
or
in
final
form
and
and
I
I
know
they
show
a
lot
of
Dr
das's
experience
and
knowledge,
but
I
also
cannot
deny.
A
Issues
of
substance
with
respect
to
several
of
of
those
reports
and
we've
only
seen
a
handful
and
obviously
it's
a
particular
genre
of
report,
perhaps
I
can
say
and
the
more
you
do
them
the
more
easy.
The
more
accomplished
you
probably
are
in
preparing
those
reports,
so
so
I
can't
discount
the
possibility
that
the
quality
of
the
reports
May
improve
in
the
future,
but
as
to
the
ones
we've
seen
there
have
been.
Some
surprisingly.
A
Elementary
errors
that
that
have
have
made
those
reports
much
less
valuable
than
they
otherwise
would
have
been
I
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions,
particularly
about
the
City
of
Fresno
experience
that
anyone
might
have.
Oh
and
perhaps
Mr
storms
mentioned
the
possible
conflict
of
interest
situation
with
exam
works
in
a
sense,
I
guess
visualizing
that
exam
Works
may
try
to
structure
things
to
please
the
client
that
is
paying
it.
I
may
be
misinterpreting
the
conflict
issue
that
Mr
storms
envisions,
but
to
the
degree
I
have
phrased
it
correctly.
A
The
exam
Works
Imes
that
reports
that
I've
seen
focus
on
the
medical
evidence
solely
on
the
medical
evidence
and
certainly
do
not
routinely
come
out
against
the
member
or
the
applicant
and
again
I
know
we
we're
not
trying
to
be
outcome
determinative.
We
want
to
applications,
decided
objectively
neutrally
on
the
basis
of
the
medical
evidence,
but
my
experience
with
the
various
exam
works
evaluators
are
that
they
fulfill
that
function
quite
well.
A
So
I'll
stop
rambling
on
about
a
willing
to
answer
any
questions
that
anyone
might
have.
Well,
thanks
for
us
you're,
the
first
person,
that's
have
that's,
got
hands-on
experience
with
them,
so
it's
useful
dick
Ray
have
any
questions
for
us.
No,
thank
you
very
much.
I
see
you.
You
have
some
other
hands
up,
so
thank
you.
I
appreciate
it.
Let's
see,
I'm
Harvey,
jumping
and
then
Franco
or
Franco
first
Yeah
question
the
staff
quickly.
A
Does
the
recommended
action
need
to
include
a
motion
to
terminate
our
agreement
with
whs
when
that,
when
staff
deems
that
appropriate,
we
do
but
in
a
manner
that
would
allow
us
to
do
essential
transition.
We're
not
really
sure
how
long
would
that
take
Sunday
I,
don't
know
if
you
have
any
further
comments
on
that.
A
The
contract
that
by
the
way
requires
I,
think
they're
in
a
month-to-month
extension
30
days,
but
but
I
would
recommend
that
the
recommended
action
include
direction
to
terminate
the
whs
contract
effective
as
of
a
date
that
staff
determines
is
appropriate,
don't
know
I
I
can
live
without
Sandra.
Can
you
is
that
a
fair
motion?
A
Yes,
I
think
it
is
a
fair
motion
and
I
would
recommend
we
give
a
few
months,
maybe
through
the
end
of
the
calendar
year
to
transition
and
allow
kind
of
finish
up
some
of
the
items
that
are
in
progress,
great
Franco.
What
do
you
have
yeah
comment
and
then
I
guess
kind
of
a
a
question
and
I
apologize?
A
I
did
not
read
through
this
whole
memo
I've
been
on
vacation
in
the
event
that
someone
is
not
service
eligible
on
a
retirement
and
I
encourage
people
to
do
this
when
they
got
backlogged
before
when
I
was
in
Dave
spot
would
be
to
take
a
non-service
disability
retirement
with
a
pending
service
application,
so
they
could
still
get
paid
and
still
have
medical
so
that
that
that
is
always
an
option,
but
I
know
in
a
lot
of
these
cases
at
least
the
ones
I
dealt
with
the
member
would
get
you
know
a
qme
on
their
own
and
then
the
Retirement
Board
would
send
them
to
an
ime.
A
A
A
A
The
ultimate
answer
is:
it
is
up
to
the
board
first,
the
committee,
then
the
board
to
weigh
all
the
medical
records
and
all
the
medical
reports,
and
so
just
because
the
ime
who
might
be
who
might
be
the
last
physician
to
review
all
the
prior
reports
and
Records
might
come
up.
As
with
certain
conclusions
on
incapacity
and
services
connection,
those
conclusions
do
not
bind
the
board.
The
board
instead
looks
at
all
of
them
and
might
decide.
No.
A
In
my
experience,
workers
comp
reports,
whether
qualified
medical
examinations,
qmes
agreed
medical
examination,
Ames
or
whatever
they
often
do
an
adequate
job
on
issues
of
incapacity
that
they
almost
never
and
it's
a
Pity
that
that
this
is
the
case,
but
they
almost
never
do
an
analysis
of
service
connection.
A
They
usually
have
one
sentence
which
is
their
conclusion
on
service
connection,
but
they
don't
have
any
explanation.
They
don't
refer
to
Imaging
studies.
They
don't
refer
to
work
incidents,
they
don't
refer
to
treatment
after
the
work
incident.
They
don't
refer
to
subsequent
MRIs
subsequent
treatment
Etc.
So
so
in
terms
of
the
substantialness
of
the
medical
reports.
A
A
A
lot
of
attention
was
brought
to
the
city
of
San
Jose
a
few
years
back,
because
we
had
a
high
rate
of
disability
retirements,
not
having
the
city.
Go,
yeah,
we're
okay!
With
this
and
having
them.
You
know
our.
We
experience
that
again
and
them
coming
at
us
and
suing
us
or
going
after
us,
because
we've
failed
to
just
stop
trying
to
establish
this
board
as
a
concern
of.
A
Well,
I,
assuming
you
know,
Franco
that
you're
talking
about
the
2008
Auditor's
report
and
I
talked
to
the
auditor
I
liked
a
nice
gal
back
then,
and
they
just
spit
out
numbers.
I've
said
many
times
that
I'm
pretty
sure
having
now
looked
at
it.
The
reason
why
we
have
higher
rates
of
disability
and
I've
talked
about
the
the
head
of
the
fire,
the
fire
chief,
the
top
fire
guy
antsop
police
guy-
is
because
we
have
a
policy,
it's
all
hands
on
deck,
and
you
know
whether
you're
disabled
or
not.
You
got
to
come
to
work.
A
We
have
a
famous
case
we're
a
fire
captain
left
our
system.
Disabled
went
to
work
for
Oakland
and
a
lot
of
people
screamed
well.
How
can
you
be
disabled?
The
San
Jose
work
for
Oakland,
because
local
has
a
policy
when
you're
disabled
right.
Here's
what
you've
been
doing?
Here's
you
know
it's
not
all
hands
on
deck
and
I
really
wish
next
time
the
city,
you
know
I
City,
Council.
Next
time
you
get
mad
at
numbers.
Once
you
talk
to
the
people
actually
know
what's
going
on.
This
is
a
real.
A
This
is
a
real
black
eye
for
the
city
council
because
they
didn't
dig
you
one
inch
blood.
The
auditor
support,
like
the
rest,
I
mean
dick
and
I.
It's
structured
the
whole
damn
new
system
to
address
this
issue.
It's
a
huge
huge
frustration
for
me,
Orlando
for
dick,
too
Franco,
and
it's
really
it's
not
good
Mr
chair.
If
I,
if
I
made
Franco
if
I
understood
what
you
asked
is
a
fair
question
and
my
only
answer
is
going
to
be
or
that
I
can
offer.
Is
the
city
actually
remember:
I,
don't
know!
A
If
you
remember
from
my
introductory
comments,
they
actually
requested
information
from
us,
so
they
could
actually
issue
the
RFP
then
sell
and
they
still
couldn't
come
up
with
anyone.
So
I
mean
sure
I
can
tell
you
what
they
will
decide
to
do
in
the
future,
but
at
least
I
think
they
understood
that
he
wasn't.
It
wasn't
that
there
was
something
wrong
with
the
process
that
we
were
implementing
for
the
RFP.
They
did
it
and
sell
and
they
didn't
have
any
bids
so
hopefully
that
give
them
a
sense.
A
A
No
I
understand,
Roberto
and
I
trust
me.
We
fought
pretty
hard
to
try
and
not
have
this
happen,
but
that
definitely
is
a
concern
of
mine,
because
city
council
turns
over
and
city
employees
turn
over
and
to
your
point
about
the
high
rated
disabilities.
We
looked
into
it
here
and
one
of
the
things
that
we
identified-
and
this
is
for
all
the
non-serving
members-
is
that
our
departments
typically
run
very
short
staffed.
A
We
have
one
of
the
lowest
per
capita
rates
for
police
officers
in
the
country
for
large
agencies,
which
means
you
get
to
the
fight.
First,
you
fight
the
longest,
whereas
if
we
had
double
the
Staffing
as
we
should
there's
at
least
two
people
there,
maybe
even
three
well
I
I-
think
that's
right.
Franco
I,
think
that
is
what
leads
to
the
all
hands
on
deck
policy.
I.
Think
you're
right
that
that
number
I
mean
that's
what
we
looked
at.
A
No
I
final
thought:
I
were
dragging
this
out:
it's
not
the
disabilities
that
are
causing
these
high
numbers.
It's
the
fact.
If
you're,
a
police
officer
and
you
broke
your
toe
and
didn't
heal
right
in
San
Jose,
you
can't
be
a
police
officer
anymore,
and
most
police
systems
around
the
world.
They'll
find
some
something
for
you
to
do
right
and
that's
that's.
That's
an
issue
and
by
the
way,
as
Franco
Parts
on
might
be
a
smart
policy
on
San
Jose's
part.
A
It
might
allow
them
to
have
fewer
people
doing
the
same
amount
of
work,
but
whatever
any
other
questions
I
think
Harvey
has
his
hands
yeah
jump
in
just
jump
in
Harvey,
yeah
I!
Don't
want
to
prolong
this,
but
you
remember:
I
I
made
some
comments
earlier
this
meeting
about
the
code,
the
plan
that
was
presented
to
us
in
our
ability
to
administer
it.
This
is
another
example
where
the
code
provides
for
this
medical
panel,
that
neither
the
city
nor
we
can
comply
with
and
they
haven't
changed
it
and
again.
A
A
A
On
behalf
of
the
members,
In
fairness-
and
it
sounds
to
me
like
what
the
recommended
action
is-
is
to
try
to
make
sure
that
what
we
are
doing
is
as
efficient,
effective
and
cost
effective
as
it
can
be
to
process
our
members,
disability
applications,
so
I
would
strongly
recommend
the
board
to
adopt
the
recommendations
presented
in
this
item.
Thank
you.
A
You
got
that
right,
Mr,
chair
great
excellent,
all
right,
let's
go
around
the
room
well
and
then
the
second
is
that
is
that
fine
with
yeah
we're
good?
Are
you?
Okay
with
that
Dave
I
am.
Thank
you
great.
Thank
you.
Andrew
hi
David,
Quan,
hi,
Sunita,
hi
Howard.
A
Yes,
as
far
hi
Dick,
yes,
Franco
hi,
Dave,
Wilson,
aye
aye,
as
chair
lands,
I
vote,
I
I
Roberto's
can
take
us
through
the
last
agenda
in
the
middle
Drive
quickly
through
on
retirement,
Roy,
G,
Foreign,.
A
Deputy
director
of
The
Office
of
Retirement
Services.
Yes,
this
memo
is
a
related
to
our
request
in
board
authorization
to
negotiate
and
execute
a
First
Amendment
to
the
agreement
with
socially
responsible
Partnerships.
A
A
A
The
budget
and
budget
for
these
Services
were
approved
by
the
board
as
part
of
the
fiscal
budget
for
2022-23
part
of
the
board's
policy,
approval
is
required
for
any
contract
that
would
result
in
a
cumulative
contract
value
with
a
single
vendor
above
50
000
over
at
two
consecutive
fiscal
years,
which
is
the
case
for
this
agreement.
A
A
I
saw
entertained
motion
to
approve
this
expenditure
motion
to
approve
Franco
I
got
most
of
my
friends.
A
And
Cheryl
Lanza
I
vote
I
all
right,
so
Maytag
and
Harvey
are
going
to
postpone
4-H
because
it's
getting
late
in
the
day.
It's
almost
cocktail
hour
on
the
East
Coast
I'm
gonna,
miss
cocktail
hour
over
to
you
for
the
Maytag
show
on
ab361
item
4i,
Maytag
sure
so
the
city,
the
proclamation
for
the
state
of
emergency,
continues
to
be
in
place,
and
this
San
Jose
City
Council
continue
to
recommend
social,
distancing
and
City
facilities.
A
If
this
board
adopts
these
two
factual
findings
supported
by
the
back
materials
provided
to
you
that
you
may
continue
to
meet
virtually
for
the
next
30
days
under
ab361.
Thank
you,
okay,
based
on
of
those
two
factual
findings,
the
drive
motion
to
adopt
the
two-factal
findings
and
continues
ab361
do
I,
hear
emotions
still
moved.
Wilson
I
have
motion
by
Wilson.
I
have
a
second,
the
second
Garden
here.
Good
I'm
gonna
push
my
we'll
sing
my
garden
here.
A
How
do
you
vote
Andrew,
hi,
David,
Kwan,
hi,
Sunita,
hi
Howard,
yes,
hi,
dick,
yes,
Franco,
hi,
Dave,
Wilson,
hi,
I'm,
chair,
Lanza,
I
vote.
I
will
go
now
through
service
Chairman's,
early
retirement,
Harvey
can
I
take
service,
retirements
and
early
retirements
together.
A
Or
Maytag
I,
don't
see
why
not?
Okay,
great!
Let
me
take
service
times.
We
got
three
service
timers
one
earlier
retirement,
this
service
term,
under
Stuart,
M,
Davies,
police,
Lieutenant,
Police,
Department,
effective
October,
15,
2022,
26.99
years
service
search
term;
David,
L,
Parker,
fire;
captain
fire
department,
effective
October,
1st
2022,
with
27.44
years
of
service
good
for
you
guys.
You
made
it
past
25.
A
and
it's
returned
Sean
Rocha,
police
officer,
police,
foreign
effect,
October,
15,
2022,
22.4
use
service
and
the
early
retirement
of
Dean
W
Whipple,
fire
prevention,
inspector
fire
department,
director,
September,
17,
2022,
23.77
years
service.
So
I
have
a
motion
to
approve
motion
by
Santos
and
much
my
Santos
or
your
second.
A
A
Thank
you.
Okay,
good
Dave
from
Dave
I
worked
with
Stu
and
worked
on
a
lot
of
teams
with
them.
We
always
had
a
great
relationship
and
had
a
lot
of
fun
together.
Sean
I've,
known
for
many
years
never
had
a
chance
to
work
together,
but
he's
a
good
man.
I
wish
him
the
best
in
retirement
for
both
of
them
and
I
want
to
I
want
to
say
congratulations
to
Dave,
Parker
and
and
Whipple
for
their
services
and
enjoy
your
retirement.
A
A
All
right,
we'll
go
through
the
the
death
announcements
in
one
moment
of
silence:
notification
on
the
death
of
William
S
part
of
shevitz
fire
captain,
which
are
May
4th
2000
died,
February
3rd
2022,
no
survivorship
benefits
notification,
death
of
Walter
Capp
fire,
Captain,
Richard,
brunch,
fifth
86
died,
July,
30,
2032,
survivorship
benefits
to
the
worst
cap,
spouse
notification,
the
death
of
Gilbert
s,
Gonzalez
police,
Sergeant,
retired
August,
3rd
2000
died,
February,
12,
2022,
no
survivorship
benefits
this
last
one
I
always
looked
through
these
things.
A
This
guy
joined
the
force
when
I
was
a
year
and
a
half
old
and
I'm.
Now,
a
senior
citizen
so
good
for
you
normal
for
giving
a
nice
long
retirement
in
notification
of
death
of
norvel
Pullman,
oh
I'm,
sorry,
Pulliam,
police,
Lieutenant,
retired
Feb
784
died,
July,
23,
2072
survivorship
benefits
to
Nancy
pulliam's
spouse.
Let's
have
a
moment
of
silence.
A
Thanks
I,
don't
know
if
any
of
you
want
to
say
anything
about
these
good
folks,
yes,
Mr,
chair,
William,
Barney
Sherman
was
known
as
ski
and
he
was
a
union
officer
for
years.
The
fire
captain
and
I
worked
with
him,
along
with
Walter
Capp,
they're,
very
good
people,
good
firefighters,
very
sad
and
best
of
our
family.
Thank
you
great
anything
from
the
police
side.
This
is
Franco.
A
I
did
not
know
either
of
them,
but
I
have
to
say
that
condolences
to
their
family
in
normal.
He
set
the
bar
for
what
retirement
should
look
like
yeah.
Well,
he
joined
the
first
one.
It
was
a
year
and
a
half,
so
he
had
almost
four
decades
good
for
you
normal.
Let's
go
ahead,
then
move
on
to
any
report
from
the
investment
committee.
No,
if
you've
not
had
any
real
meetings
except
the
ab361
meeting,
so
great
I'll
I'll
notice.
A
For
the
record,
we
received
the
minutes
from
July
29
August
4,
ab361
meetings,
audit
risk
committee,
any
report,
nothing
to
nothing
to
report.
Just
the
filing
of
the
minutes
will
receive
again:
July
29,
August,
40,
8360
and
number
two
Frank
or
anything
with
governance.
A
Nothing
new
to
report
great
will
receive
and
file
minutes
from
the
ab361
means
of
July
20th
August
4th
dick
any
report
from
disability.
A
Well,
I
I'll
go
ahead
and
report,
we
had
a
regular
meeting
in
August
and
that
went
well,
we'll
receive
and
filed
the
minutes
from
July
29
August
4th
ab3601
meeting,
as
well
as
the
regular
disability
community
meeting
of
August
8th
JPC,
is
that
you
Andrew
Usher
I
forgot
is
that
your
tuna
right,
Andrew
I,
can
take
it.
It's
fine.
A
A
We
do
have
a
meeting
on
Monday
to
move
forward
with
both
of
those
items
and
hopefully
make
some
decisions
and
take
some
more
action
other
than
that
we're
planning
to
meet
I
think
we're
going
to
try
and
meet
on
a
monthly
basis
going
forward
until
we
have
all
this
stuff
finalized
great
and
we
will
receive
and
file
the
March
4th
and
August
10th
jbz
minutes,
Floors
open,
maybe
from
the
public
or
any
member,
want
to
suggest
I'm.
Sorry
any
board
member
want
to
suggest
any
agenda
items.
A
If
not,
everybody
remember
stick
around
so
I
just
have
a
quick
question
for
Council
May
time.
Maybe
any
thoughts
on
the
ab361
I
mean.
Are
we
going
to
be
able
to
continue
having
these
meetings
to
the
rest
of
the
year?
I
think
you
mentioned
that
you
addressed
that
at
the
last
meeting,
but
I
think
the
last
meeting
that
I
attended
was
Fed,
so
it
was
on
police
on
fire.
A
I
wasn't
sure
yeah,
so
it
it's
unclear
whether
it
be
proclamation
of
the
state
of
emergency
will
be
lifted,
but
I
think
most
everyone's
cautious
that
there
may
be
another
wave
of
code
that
may
be
coming
down
so
we'll
see
the
governor
did
pass
legislation
when
we're
going
to
coverage
today,
but
we
can
cover
that
the
next
meeting
pass
the
legislation
for
hybrid
meetings,
which
seems
to
signal
that
there
may
he
may
have
left
it,
starting
in
January
the
proclamation
of
the
state
of
emergency.
A
Now
that
there's
that
new
law
that's
available,
but
we
can
discuss
that
in
further
detail
at
the
next
meeting.
Okay,
very
well!
Thank
you.
Thanks
for
Joe,
okay,
this
means
adjourned
over
to
you
may
attack
for
the
second
half
baby.