►
Description
City of San José, California
Police & Fire Department Retirement Plan Board of February 2, 2023
This public meeting will be conducted via Zoom Webinar. For information on public participation via Zoom, please refer to the linked meeting agenda below.
Agenda: https://sanjose.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=A&ID=1078778&GUID=EA9B2E90-231C-4666-94E6-032D96ACDD0A
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A
A
B
B
A
B
Here,
David
Juan
Yukon
here
here
sorry
Howard,
present
esperar.
Here
yes
and
Wilson
here,
I'm
Drew,
Lanza
congrats
for
Full,
House,
hey,
we
got
a
pretty
short
meeting
today,
so,
let's
step
Lively
we'll
get
out
of
here
about
lunch.
Let's
see
next
section
orders
of
the
day
called
me
to
redund
the
Roll
Call,
the
general
gist
of
orders
through
this
remember
on
Zoom,
as
I've
said
before,
we
have
the
best
zoom
advocate
of
any
board
I'm
on,
and
this
is
a
big
board.
B
So
that's
saying
something:
if
you
have
a
temporal
question,
go
ahead
and
interrupt
the
speaker,
you
have
to
raise
your
hand
just
jump
in
if
this
is
more
general
question,
wait
until
the
end,
when
we
go
around
Robin
or
when
I
call
for
an
open
floor,
I
remember
doing
the
Maytag
show
a
the
a
b
sequence
so
stick
around
when
I
end
this
meeting,
so
we
can
go
through
the
various
committees.
We
have
nothing
to
wave
sunshine
on.
B
B
B
D
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
good
morning
trustees.
We
don't
have
any
agenda
items
under
the
investment
section
this
morning,
but
as
always,
I
wanted
to
share
some
performance
numbers.
These
are
from
Makita
and
these
are
as
of
January
31st,
and
please
bear
in
mind
that
these
are
unaudited
numbers
as
of
131.
The
the
pension
plan
was
up
5.02
fiscal
year
to
date
and
the
healthcare
trust
was
up.
D
Every
year
and
Makita
just
sent
us
their
Capital
Market
assumptions
for
this
year
yesterday
last
evening,
I
haven't
seen
them
yet,
but
we
will
I
will
take
a
look
at
them
and
we
will
present
some
options
to
the
IC
and
then
the
IC
will
recommendation
will
make
recommendations
to
the
full
board.
We
will
also
be
discussing
at
the
IC,
the
city,
the
pre-funding
discussion.
E
E
You
have
seen
some
preliminary
numbers
and
discussions
in
the
past
I
think
the
final
results
were
pretty
similar
to
the
preliminary
numbers
that
were
discussed,
but
nevertheless
there
is
action
to
be
taken
by
your
board
about
approving
and
accepting
the
report
and
defined
and
the
finding.
So
with
that
I'll
turn
it
over
to
Bill
good
morning.
Bill.
F
So
it
is
Roberto
indicated
this
is
the
last
of
our
series
evaluation
presentations
for
the
board
We've.
We
started
things
off
in
October
and
are
finishing
them
off.
Today
we
have
the
final
results
of
the
OPEC
valuation
for
both
police
and
fire.
It's
the
valuations
are
structured
very
similarly
to
the
pension
plan
with
a
couple
things
that
are
different.
F
Currently,
most
of
the
benefits
are
being
paid
out
of
the
401h
account,
and
so
that
account
has
been
going
down
while
the
115
trust
has
been
going
up.
The
other
difference
is
in
the
pension
plan.
We
are
setting
contributions
for
both
employees
and
the
city
for
the
opeb.
The
member
contributions
are
fixed
in
statute,
and
so
we
are
just
setting
the
contributions
for
the
city.
F
F
F
We
look
at
contributions.
Contributions
in
total
remain
pretty
level
you'll
see
on
the
left
side.
Is
the
police
where
the
the
purple
bar
is
the
member
contribution,
and
the
gold
is
the
city's
contribution.
The
city
contribution
is
going
up
slightly
in
the
member
contribution
is
going
down
slightly.
The
member
contribution
is
going
down
because
this
is
effectively
a
closed
group,
that's
making
member
contributions,
and
so,
as
members
retire,
there
are
fewer
members
to
make
contributions.
F
It's
a
similar
story
on
on
the
fire
plan
decline
in
member
contributions,
slight
uptick
in
City
contributions,
the
Blue
Line
shows
what
we
projected
from
the
last
valuation
for
the
contributions,
and
you
can
see
it's
it's
pretty
close
to
the
same.
It's
slightly
lower.
Actually,
even
though
we
had
investment
losses
so
with
that
I'm
going
to
turn
it
to
Mike
to
talk
through
the
the
changes.
G
G
As
the
discount
rate's
been
lowered
over
time,
and
then
you
can
see,
the
other
big
changes
are
there's
a
big
benefit
change
that
happened
in
2017
due
to
the
implementation
of
measure
app
and
effectively
closing
the
plan
and
basically
liability
gains,
which
are
the
like
gray
bars
over
time,
which
is
you've
had
Fairly
positive
medical
premium,
increases
changes
over
time
and
then
being
offset
somewhat
by
your
investment
gain
or
loss.
Kind
of
the
interesting
thing
is
from
an
investment
point
of
view.
G
The
next
page
then
shows
your
membership
trends,
and
it
really
shows
what's
going
on
the
dark.
Blue
bars
at
the
bottom,
show
the
changes
and
the
members
are
actually
eligible
for
the
full
benefit
and
again,
as
members
retire,
you
can
see
those
numbers
drop
and
then
the
individuals
that
are
just
eligible
for
the
catastrophic
disability
benefit
grows
as
those
active
employees
are
being
replaced.
G
Kind
of
the
key
thing
on
this
is
to
really
focus
on
the
real
major
long-term
sorcery
liability
is
that
kind
of
medium
green
bar
in
the
middle,
which
is
those
individuals
that
are
eligible
for
Medicare,
and
that
is
a
really
growing
piece
you
can
see
versus
the
police
between
the
Medicare
and
the
non-medicare.
Eligibility
was
split
about
50,
50.
and
now
that's
grown
to
more,
like
60
40,
and
that's
going
to
continue
to
grow
as
more
people
retire
and
they
age
into
that
population.
And
you
see
a
very
similar
thing
happening
on
the
fire
side.
G
The
next
chart
then
looks
at
your
active
members
and
it
really
does
show
the
picture
of
the
light.
Teal
bars
or
those
that
are
just
eligible
for
the
catastrophic
disability
and
then
the
dark
blue
are
the
members
eligible
for
full
benefits,
and
you
can
just
really
see
the
trend
in
the
next
few
years.
As
more
and
more
individuals
reach
retirement
age
and
we'll
start
leaving
you're
going
to
see
more
and
more
people
falling
off
of
the
plan
going
forward
and.
G
G
G
F
F
F
and
the
light
bars
are
all
the
changes
that
have
happened
since,
including
you
can
see
this
year.
There's
hardly
a
change
down
there
at
the
bottom
on
on
either
of
them,
so
that
since
2017,
the
changes
have
largely
offset
each
other,
and
so
the
main
thing
is
still
the
the
ongoing
payment
schedule
we
set
up
on
the
ual
in
2017,
which
continues
out
to
2043
I
believe
foreign,
that
here's
our
projection
of
contributions.
F
You
can
see
the
member
contributions
are
projected
to
continue
to
decline
as
people
retire
and
the
city
picks
up
more
and
more
of
the
contributions.
The
dollar
amount
is
projected
to
increase
behind
here.
This
green
shaded
area
is
the
benefit
payments
that
are
going
out,
and
so
we
are
still
having
positive
cash
flow,
meaning
there's
more
coming
in
in
contributions
than
going
out
in
benefit
payments
that
will
eventually
change
we're.
Projecting
that
change
to
happen
around
2030.
F
and
that's
just
something
that
we
monitor
for
the
liquidity,
I
forgot.
One
thing
I
wanted
to
point
out
here
on
the
projection
of
liabilities.
We
really
reach
a
peak
around
20,
35
or
2036,
and
because
this
plan
is
effectively
closed
for
full
benefits.
There's
the
ongoing
catastrophic!
That's
really
when
we
hit
the
peak
in
liabilities
and
and
from
that
point
on,
the
liability
figures
are
expected
to
go
down
as
we're
paying
out
the
benefits
foreign.
B
B
E
Thank
you,
Mr
chair
upcoming
in-person
meetings,
but
I
will
reserve
them
for
later
when
we
reached
the
discussion.
The
order
of
the
from
Council
on
the
reception
of
in-person
meetings.
I
think
it
makes
more
sense
to
do
that
there.
But
it's
about
the
reservation
of
where
are
we
going
to
be
actually
having
the
meetings
at
City
Hall
for
the
rest
of
the
year,
but
assumably
starting
with
April?
So
with
that?
E
E
E
E
E
You
about
filing
you
form
700,
which
is
the
conflict
of
interest
form
this
year,
usually
is
due
on
April
1st,
but
this
year,
I
believe
April
1st
falls
on
a
Saturday,
so
the
due
date
is
April
3rd
again,
if
you
haven't
received
the
email
already,
you
should
be
receiving
one
soon.
If
you
have
any
questions
about
filling
out
the
form,
let
us
know
or
please
reach
out
to
your
physically
council
with
any
specific
questions
that
you
may
have.
E
E
Well,
suffice
to
say
that,
in
addition,
the
the
city
is
going
to
have
some
new
security
measures
for
the
in-person
meetings
at
City,
Hall
I'm,
not
really
sure
how
that
would
impact
trustees
going
to
the
meetings,
because
this
security
message
measures
are
for
the
first
floor,
Lobby
entrance
and
I
believe
all
of
you
park
downstairs
in
City
Hall
and
come
through
the
elevator.
So
you
don't
use
the
front
lobby
entrance.
E
A
E
Amy
Dickinson
will
be
joining
us
on
Tuesday
February
21st.
She
comes
to
us
from
Private
Industry,
most
recently
working
as
an
office
manager,
but
having
a
concentration
in
human
resources
and
having
experienced
in
the
Private
Industry
Human
Resources.
So
with
that,
that
concludes
my
common
researchers.
Mr
chair,
I'm,
happy
to
answer
any
questions.
H
E
E
B
Dick
it's
comps
off
and
I
actually
added
it
as
a
separate
agenda.
We
asked
Maytag
every
month
and
I
asked
Maytag
she
mind
covering
separately.
She
giggled
and
said
you
know
we're
doing
it
anyway,
so
we're
gonna
go
ahead
and
and
cover
it
as
name
any
more
questions
for
Roberto
I
fell
over
to
you
Council
and
Pam
Foley
greetings.
Thank.
I
B
I
I
B
I
So
so,
with
the
new
mayor,
he
has
created
these
new
transition
teams
that
are
taking
a
look
at
five
areas
within
the
city
that
are
designed
to
meet
really
short
term
and
then
come
to
the
city
council
in
February,
with
suggestions
on
how
to
improve
various
topics.
Various
areas
of
operations
within
the
city
and
we'll
be
using
that
to
set
our
priorities
for
the
city
and
then
also
our
budget,
so
priorities
will
be
in
February.
Budget
will
be
in
while
we
start
looking
at
it.
I
In
March
and
I
have
been
assigned
to
co-chair
the
transition
team
on
homelessness,
which
is
a
huge
issue,
as
you
all
know,
and
one
of
the
issues
that,
as
council
members
were
constantly
trying
to
reduce
the
number
of
those
living
in
unsheltered
living
unsheltered
and
also
reducing
the
impact
on
our
neighborhoods.
So
we
have
two
charges
in
the
homeless,
homeless,
transition
team
and
one
is
to
come
up
with
metrics
to
reduce
the
number
of
unsheltered
residents
living
on
our
streets
and
the
other
is
to
improve
the
impact
on
the
neighborhood,
the
surrounding
neighborhood.
I
I
A
lot
of
work
is
going
in
into
that
I'm
been
assigned
to
a
lot
of
different
committees,
so
I'm
trying
to
kind
of
get
my
head
around
all
my
new
committee
assignments,
which
includes
rules
where
we
set
the
agenda
and
also
the
VTA,
have
been
assigned
to
the
VTA
board,
which
I'm
also
very
excited
about
which
I
start
to
get
my
my
first
Thursdays
of
the
month
with
you
I
end
with
the
VTA
board.
So
it's
both
very
complicated
issues
but
I
I
look
forward
to
being
involved
in
both
of
those.
I
Finally,
I
do
have
a
question
for
you
or
one
to
let
you
know
that
you
had
an
agenda
item
set
for
consent
next
week,
but
we
have
moved
it
to
another
day,
so
Roberto
I'm
not
sure
what
date
it's
going
to
be
assigned
to.
But
we
had
a
really
small
agenda
on
Tuesday
February
7th.
So
we
decided
to
sort
of
defer
everything
that
we
could
to
another
meeting.
C
I
Make
it
a
really
short
meeting
and
give
our
council
members
and
staff
a
break
on
that
particular
day
so,
but
the
one
item
in
that
was
coming
to
us
is
the
annual
report,
comprehensive
Financial
reports
and
my
staff
asked:
is
there
anything
controversial
or
anything
that
we
should
be
concerned
about,
and
would
you
like
me
to
pull
it
off
the
agenda
to
make
comments
about
it,
and
so
what
would
you
like
me
to
say?
Yes.
I
E
You
thank
you,
council,
member,
yes,
I
did
receive
notification
and
it
was
moved
from
the
February
7th
meeting
to
the
February
14th.
No,
there
isn't
anything
controversial,
pretty
straightforward,
good
results
and
we
received
just
like
the
city.
I
don't
qualify
opinion
which,
which
means
the
financial
statements
are
clean
and
they
are
they
present
fairly.
The
financial
condition
of
the
plan,
so
you're
certain,
are
welcome
to
Paulette
I
intend
to
to
attend
the
meeting.
J
B
E
I'm
sorry
I
sent
an
email
to
both
the
chair
and
by
chairs
or
both
boards
about
the
reappointments
of
the
current
council
members.
So
council,
member
Foley
was
reappointed
to
police
on
fire
and
councilman
Davis.
We
appointed
to
federator,
but
I
may
have
sent
the
email
separately
right
to
Federation
to
police.
That's
pretty
what
you
didn't
know.
H
Accounts
yeah
Mr,
chairman
Jack,
yeah,
council
member
Foley,
of
course
welcome
you
didn't
leave,
you
stayed
and
I'm
glad
they
had
that
experience
to
stay
I.
Listen
to
you
just
alone.
The
liaison
responsibility
here
is
awesome
for
you
plus
VTA
and,
of
course,
the
controversial
unhoused
and
I
just
want
to
tell
you
that
I'm
glad
you're
there
I'm
the
chair
of
our
colon
Creek
environmental
cleanup,
which
deals
with
the
unhoused
if
I
can
be
helpful
anyway.
Just
let
me
know
we
have
regular
media's
continually
on
that
working
with
the
city
of
San
Jose.
K
I
E
E
I
just
wanted
to
give
you
the
heads
up,
we'll
be
sending
out
a
survey,
hopefully
by
tomorrow,
if
we
can
and
so
that
you,
the
boys,
have
a
chance
to
get
back
to
us
within
the
next
seven
to
ten
days.
So
I
can
get
back
to
the
city
about
which
of
those
dates
are
better
off
for
the
boys
to
meet
with
the
city.
Council
did.
I
C
E
I
E
You
you
are
correct,
council.
Member
and
again
you
reminded
me
one
more
comment:
I
wanted
to
meet
to
the
boards.
I
will
be
actually
going
around
next
week
as
council
member
fully
indicated
I
think
there's
been
a
60
percent
turnover
rate
at
the
city
council
of
the
10
seats,
six
and
new
ones.
I'm
gonna
be
going
around
with
Jennifer
chambry
to
I
believe
the
two
newer
members
of
the
city
council,
providing
then
a
presentation
on
pension
benefits
and
and
both
both.
E
And
police
and
fire
retirement
plans
and
I
also
intend
to
reach
out
to
all
the
council
members
that
I
knew
in
anticipation
of
the
joint
meeting
with
the
city
council.
Not
only
so
I
get
a
chance
to
connect
with
them
and
meet
them,
and
they
meet
me
personally,
but
also
to
provide
some,
hopefully
some
basic
background
education,
information
and
the
pension
plan.
So
by
the
time
we
have
the
joint
meeting,
at
least
they
have
some
knowledge
of
what
is
it
that
our
office
do?
E
B
Really
are
honored
of
you,
as
you
know,
we're
going
to
be
doing
incentive
compensation
thing
and
when
I
talked
to
mayor
Ricardo
dude
before
he
left,
he
said
you
best
pray,
you
get
Pam
and
Deb
back.
So
prayers
were
answered,
it
was,
it
was
well
I,
don't
think
it's
gonna,
be
a
heavy
lift.
You
know
Pam,
but
I.
Think
every
you
and
Deb
there
to
say.
Look
we've
looked
at
it
makes
sense
to
us.
I
just
think
we'll
be
enormously
valuable.
Yeah.
B
N
M
M
B
E
In
any
case,
the
city
is
actually
going
through
some
Renovations
of
the
former
location
where
we
used
to
have
our
meetings
in
City
Hall,
and
so
in
any
case
we
reach
out,
and
we
did
get
the
location
for
the
remainder
of
the
year
and
so
right
now.
It
appears
that
the
first,
your
first
meeting
on
April
6,
will
take
place.
We
will
keep
you
posted
and
let
you
know,
but
we
will
take
place
at
the
fifth
floor
of
our
building.
E
Our
offices
are
located
on
the
sixth
floor
on
1737
North
First
Street,
so
it
will
be
on
the
fifth
floor,
where
we
usually
used
to
have
the
investment
committee
meeting
for
those
of
you
that
were
at
the
board
three
years
ago
and
attended
those
meetings.
But
after
that,
for
the
remainder
of
the
year,
we
have
our
usual
location
on
City
Hall,
except
for
maybe
one
or
two
that
we
will
actually
meet
at
the
city,
council
chambers.
E
So
again,
the
next
meeting
in
person,
the
April
6th
most
likely
would
take
place
at
our
offices.
On
the
fifth
floor.
We
will
certainly
reach
out
to
you
with
plenty
of
time
and
let
you
know
and
the
rest
of
those
the
minutes
for
the
year
in
person
will
take
place
at
City,
Hall,
our
usual
location,
this,
the
wing
rooms
and
say,
for
maybe
one
or
two
that
will
take
place
at
the
city,
council
chambers
and
second,
as
I
mentioned
the
city
which
right
now
doesn't
require,
but
recommend
the
six.
E
The
distance
and
to
wear
a
mask
will
Implement
new
security
measures,
but
those
are
for
people
coming
through
the
first
floor.
Lobby
entrance
as
again
as
you
may
remember,
those
of
you
that
have
been
at
the
board
for
a
few
years,
you're
coming
to
the
City
Hall
through
the
underground
parking
and
come
through
the
elevator
from
the
parking
below
City
Hall.
E
So
we
will
be
reaching
out
to
you.
I
know
some
some
of
you
join
the
board
after
covid-19,
and
so
we
will
reach
out
to
you
about
location
for
City
Hall
and
what
are
the
steps
to
follow?
Not
only
to
be
able
to
go
into
the
parking,
but
that
we
can
stand
those
tickets
so
that
you
don't
have
to
pay
for
parking?
And
let
you
know
where
the
the
wings
on
the
on
the
city
hall
are
located.
So
that
concludes
my
comments.
Mr,
chair,
I'm,
happy
to
answer.
M
So,
with
the
back
of
materials
provided
to
you,
the
it
has
a
supporting
factual
findings,
which
are
that,
when
the
governor's
Proclamation
remains
to
be
in
effect
as
of
today,
and
that
too,
that
this
San
Jose
City
Council
continues
to
recommend
social
distancing
and
study
facilities,
if
adopted
by
majority
vote.
These
two
factual
findings
will
allow
your
board
to
continue
to
meet
virtually
for
the
next
30
days.
Thank
you.
B
O
N
B
Bye
David,
hi
Howard,
yes,
yeah
sure,
aye,
dick,
yes,
Dave,
hi,
I'm,
Cheryl,
Lanza
I
vote
on
hey
Roberto,
let's,
let's
juggle
the
schedule
slightly.
Let's
do
thanks
for
reminding
me.
Jay
was
time
certain.
Let's
do
Maytag
and
Harvey's
presentation
after
Jay
he's
on
in
15
minutes.
I,
don't
want
to
interrupt
their
presentation,
but
I
want
to
be
on
time
for
Jay.
Does
that
make
sense
to
you
Roberto?
B
Yes,
sir
great
all
right,
so
we
are
going
to
hold
off
an
item
4C,
let's
go
ahead
then
and
get
to
the
retirements
we're
through
we're
through
the
November
December
January
Crush.
Thank
God
I'll.
Look
for
a
vote
up
to
the
Search
terms
of
band
on
fire
captain
fire
department,
but
from
Jam
120
through
22.5
six
year
service,
David,
Lee,
Dorman
wow.
B
B
You
a
motion
by
San
Jose,
my
garden
is
Grant
Franco
hi,
Sunita,
aye,
Andrew,
hi,
I'm,
David,
aye
Howard;
yes,
ashfar,
hi,
Dick,
yes,
Dave
Wilson,
all
right,
Chileans
I
vote
eyes.
Well,
we
get
deferred
vested
for
Davidson,
dejas
police
officer,
police
department,
in
fact,
Feb
23,
20,
23,
13.62
years
of
service,
with
reciprocity
on
entertainment
motion
to
prove
so
move
Santos
yeah
most
of
my
Sanchez
to
have
a
second
well.
Thank
you!
So
much
for
my
San
Jose
by
Wilson's,
Grand
Franco,
all
right,
Sunita,
hi,
Andrew,
hi,
David,
hi.
B
Howard,
yes,
sorry,
eschvar
hi,
dick,
yes,
Dave,
Wilson,
bye,
and
this
is
Lanza
I
vote
I
as
well
all
right.
Let's
see
and
I'm
Ron
too
now
thank
God.
We
hate
to
lose
any
members
to
thank
God.
We've
had
some
some
heavy
months
here,
but
now
we've
got
a
pretty
light.
One
yeah
so
we'll
we'll
announce
this
in
a
moment
of
silence
the
death
of
Charles
crochet
fire
engineer,
Richard,
March,
2nd,
95
good
for
you,
nice
long
retirement.
H
K
B
Q
B
B
R
E
B
B
H
H
B
E
Q
E
Q
B
And
you
and
I
will
talk
after
this
board
meeting
yesterday.
Yes,
true,
yes,
very
well,
catch
up
all
right,
let
me
note
that
we
received
a
bottle
of
minutes
from
December,
8th
and
January
6th,
which
brings
us
let's
take
a
break.
It's
9
20.
Jay's
on
at
9
30..
So,
let's
all
take
take
a
breakfast
break
for
10
minutes
be
back
promptly.
I
had
9
29.
thanks.
Everybody.
B
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
B
B
B
It's
really
good
to
see
you
again.
Let
me
let
the
rest
of
Trustees
who
don't
know
that
Jay
served
on
this
board
and
was
a
distinguished
colleague.
We've
had
problems
in
the
past
when
people
have
served
on
this
board,
come
before
the
board
and
and
aren't
you,
as
you
guys
know,
Harvey
Maytag,
dude
great
job
of
keeping
us
crystal
clear
from
any
conflicts
of
interest,
and
so
in
the
best
interest
of
that.
Most
of
you
don't
know.
Jay
so
you'd
be
totally
fair
on
this,
but
an
investment
that
we
sent
his
case
out.
B
I
think
so.
First
I've
been
doing
this
for
10
11
years.
I.
Think
it's
the
first
time
we're
doing
that.
We
were
supposed
to
hear
this
last
month,
Jay
I
apologize.
That's
my
glitch!
I
had
a
young
grandson
and
I
had
a
house
full
of
people
and
I
didn't
stay
on
the
ball,
meaning
at
the
paperwork
in
time.
So
I
owe
you
a
beer.
Next
time,
I
see
you
Jay,
okay.
B
Finally,
in
case
I,
forget
was
Satan:
disability
applications,
dick
I'm
bad
for
taking
myself
Jay.
You
left
one
fraternity
only
to
join
the
fraternity
of
bad
backstoppers,
of
which
stick
on
our
card
carrying
members.
So
you've
got
about
half
the
disability
cases.
We
here
look
just
like
yours,
so
Jay
we're
gonna
run
this
pretty
formally
because
of
this
nature
of
conflict.
So
if
you
see
me
reading
from
a
script,
it's
not
because
it's
not
good
to
see
your
smiling
mug
again,
just
to
make
sure
it's
clear.
B
K
Okay,
yes,
applicant's
name
is
James
Mason.
His
classification
is
police
sergeant.
His
application
is
for
a
service
connected
disability
retirement
change
of
status
from
a
regular
retirement.
The
body
parts
listed
on
his
application,
or
his
left
shoulder
and
arm
mid
back
and
lower
back.
His
date
of
hire
is
4
2
2002..
K
K
Sorry
I
just
had
to
scroll
I
got
three
screens
here
says
that
they
have
time
of
separation
is
disability.
Leave
status
at
the
time
of
application
is
disability,
leave
permanent
work
restrictions
are
no
lifting,
pushing
or
pulling
greater
than
20
pounds.
Regarding
the
accommodation
of
restrictions,
the
police
department
cannot
accommodate
the
restrictions.
Thank
you
very
much.
B
N
You
Mr
chairman,
just
a
a
few
comments
about
for
the
record
about
how
we
got
here
because
it
we
did
not
follow
the
typical
pattern
of
referring
disability,
the
disability
application
to
our
own
disability
committee
for
very
good
reason.
Jay
Mason
served
as
a
a
member
of
this
board
from
June
of
2012
to
September
of
2015.
N
So
in
this
situation,
that's
exactly
what
we
did
when
ORS
received
Mr
Mason's
application.
We
asked
our
neighboring
systems
in
San
Mateo
samsara,
to
run
the
application
through
their
disability
determination
process
and
make
a
recommendation
to
our
board,
just
as
our
disability
committee
would
make
a
recommendation
to
the
board.
So
what
you
have
before
you
is
samsara
has
done
that
for
us
as
a
courtesy
extended
to
a
sister's
system.
N
The
standards
for
incapacity
and
service
connection
are
the
same
as
the
standards
that
we
would
follow
here
under
the
San
Jose
Municipal
Code.
They
have
worked
this
up,
provided
this
board
with
background
information,
medical
information
and
advice,
and
also
made
a
recommendation
to
Grant
to
this
board
for
determine
Nation.
N
B
J
Do
not
just
me
right.
I
did,
however,
provide
early
on
just
Cafe
link
to
the
video
showing
at
least
one
of
the
many
injuries
that
I
have
and
it's
open
source
video.
Now,
if
anyone
hasn't
watched
it
or
didn't,
have
an
opportunity
to
I'm
more
than
happy
to
provide
that
link
if
necessary,
if
there's
any
service
or
job
related
connectedness
that
they
need
to
assure
themselves
of.
B
Let
me
tell
you
this
I
was
born
and
raised
in
San
Mateo
County
I
sit
on
our
disability
committee
and
you
guys
do
it
better
than
us
and
I'm
a
little
bit
jealous,
but
since
I'm
from
San
Mateo
I'm
not
too
jealous
the
floors
open.
Are
there
any
questions
for
the
samsara
process
or
their
findings
from
any
board
members.
B
So
it
was
a
great
job,
very,
very
thorough.
Having
now
sat
on
our
disability
for
committee
for
10
years,
I
wish
all
of
our
stuff
was
as
detailed
and
thorough
as
here.
So
thank
you
for
coming
stay
with
us.
Okay,
let's
see
Jay.
Will
you
confirm
that
you
received
communication
from
our
staff
notifying
you
of
this
board
meeting
correct.
B
B
But
for
those
who
aren't
familiar
with
disability
process,
this
is
very
common,
especially
younger
police
environment
injure
something
and
they
think.
Well,
you
know
what
is
your
football
coach
say:
hey
Shake,
It
Off
kid
and
either
file,
or
they
don't
file.
If
they
do
file
it'll
make
sure
it
got
all
processed.
So
that's
pretty
normal.
C
B
Correct
all
right,
let's
see,
is
there
a
representative
from
the
police
department
who
are
standing
to
the
department
memo
date,
December
522
on
accommodation,
work,
restrictions
or
wish
to
present
any
other
testimony
relevant
to
the
issues
Germany
hearing.
Do
we
have
a
rep
from
a
police
department
on
this
call?
Yes,.
B
B
B
J
Well,
I'm
not
exactly
sure
what
you're
asking
for,
but
as
far
as
injuries
go
it's
rather,
as
you
I'm
stated,
you
have
some
familiarity
yourself
as
far
as
back
injuries
go
but
I've
had
multiple
back
injuries
on
duty.
Those
are
well
documented,
obviously
getting
run
over
by
a
car.
Obviously
we'll
do
that
to
you,
but
yeah
I
mean
I.
J
B
J
No
I
mean
I,
said
I
think
the
injuries
are
well
documented.
The
work
the
job
relatedness
is
is
obvious,
while
I
disagreed
with
the
decision
to
send
this
outside
I
would
like
to
thank
sansara
for
obviously
taking
time
out
of
their
busy
schedule
to
review
and
come
back
with
a
recommendation
of
approval.
J
B
Were
you
on
the
board
when
we
heard
David
Bachi
galupees,
you
remember
that
was
a
bit
of
a
clustered
flub.
That's
why
we
Institute
this
process
right
David
complained
that
that
hearing
was
unfair
and
I
think
he
was
right.
There
was
a
lot
of
emotion
and
this
shouldn't
have
been
so
that's
why
we
ensued
this
process,
so
that
would
never
have
it
happened
again.
You
just
happened
to
read
the
first
person
to
hit
the
process,
so
Floors
open,
Harvey,
Maytag,
Roberto,
any
board
members
any
questions
or
comments,
Russ,
Hey
Russ.
T
T
E
I
do
want
to
publicly
thank
James
for
his
passion
with
us.
As
he
stated
there
were
times
where
we
had
disagreements,
but
he
was
very
courteous
about
it
and
very
understanding
and
again
Joseph's
chair,
Lance
I
indicated,
even
though
he
took
blame
for
it.
It
wasn't
his
fault.
Ultimately,
it
falls
on
me.
It
was
my
responsibility,
so
I
again
publicly
apologize
for
what
transpired
the
last
meeting.
E
We
were
not
able
to
review
your
case
and
I
also
want
to
take
this
chance
to
thank
Elizabeth
and
the
staff
for
the
San
Mateo
County
policy,
time
assistant,
my
peers,
Scott
Hood
and
the
hall
office
for
more
for
the
willingness
to
accept
and
review
this
case
on
our
behalf.
So
Elizabeth,
please
a
big
thank
you
from
all
of
us
to
you,
staff
to
you
and
Scott
and
everyone
else
there.
So
please
pass
that
along.
Thank
you
so
very
much
and
again
to
our
staff.
E
That's
all
we're
always
working
diligently
in
this
particular
case,
a
little
different,
because
we
were
working,
keeping
track
and
working
with
our
sister
across
the
a
few
miles
from
here:
San
Mateo,
County,
Police
Department
system.
So
that's
all
I
have
to
say
pretty
straightforward,
I
think
the
medical
evidence
is
there
and
again
James
good
to
see
you
again
and
good
luck
to
you.
Thank
you.
Mr
chair
sure,.
B
Floors,
open
and
even
from
the
board,
want
to
say
anything:
I
yeah
I,
concur
it's
pretty
yeah
the
bad
news.
Usually
you
really
got
banged
around.
The
good
news
is
that
makes
us
our
job,
pretty
easy.
Let's
go
ahead
and
close.
The
hearing
now
and
the
floor
is
open
to
entertain
a
motion
to
approve
or
deny
this
application
to
the
group.
B
B
B
M
M
E
N
Yeah
just
a
couple
of
comments
to
start
this.
You
know
every
year
at
least
annually.
We
try
to
come
to
the
board
and
do
a
refresher
on
fiduciary
responsibilities
and
and
on
especially
on
conflicts
of
interest,
because
for
fiduciaries.
That's
that's
the
third
rail
that
we
dare
not
touch
for
many
of
our
clients
who
have
whose
boards
have
delegated
substantial
responsibility
to
staff,
especially
on
the
investment
side.
N
We
like
to
add
another
component
to
this
educational
session,
which
deals
with
what
we
call
undue
influence,
and
that
is
essentially
when
board
members
have
for
good
governance
reasons,
delegated
substantial
responsibility
to
the
staff
and,
of
course
the
board
should
always
keep
their
eyes
on
what
staff
is
doing.
But
we
say,
keep
your
eyes
on
and
your
fingers
out,
because
you've
made
a
you've
made
a
governance
decision
when
you
delegate
responsibility-
and
you
should
abide
by
that-
and
of
course
you
need
to
monitor
your
delegation-
make
sure
your
delegates
are
acting
as
fiduciaries
as
well.
N
N
Why
we're
bringing
this
to
this
board
at
this
time,
so
that
we
can
have
a
a
broader
conversation
about
relative
roles
between
the
board
and
staff
to
whom
they've
delegated
we'll
let
Maytag
kick
it
off
and
then
I'm
going
to
swoop
in
in
a
little
bit
and
and
talk
you
through
and
and
get
your
views
of
a
few
hypothetical
scenarios
that
actually
are
not
all
of
all
so
hypothetical
but
Maytag.
Why
don't
you
take
it
from
here
and
let's
see
how
the
conversation
goes,.
M
Sure
so,
as
Harvey
mentioned,
we're
going
to
be
covering
the
conflicts
of
interest,
undue
influence
and
fiduciary
duties
to
see
how
they
all
intersect
together
and
Harvey's,
going
to
round
out
with
some
hypothetical
scenarios
in
the
very
end.
So
there
are
five
primary
fiduciary
duties
which
are
set
forth
in
the
California
Constitution
Article
16,
section
17,
which
are
the
primary
duty
of
loyalty,
the
exclusive
benefit
rule
duty
of
prudence
duty
to
diversify
and
to
follow
the
planned
documents.
M
So,
let's
start
with
the
first
one,
the
primary
the
primary
loyalty
duty
is
essentially
the
duty
of
loyalty.
The
reason
why
we
call
it
the
primary
duty
of
loyalty
is
that
the
duty
of
loyalty
takes
precedent
over
all
other
duties,
and
so
we
can
think
about
the
duty
of
loyalty
as
the
primary
Duty
rule
as
taking
precedence
over
all
other
fiduciary
duties.
M
Q
M
Next,
here
we
have
the
exclusive
benefit
role
which
imposes
on
the
duty
on
a
duty
on
the
board
and
the
plan
to
incur
only
exclusive
I'm
sorry
and
to
only
use
the
money
from
the
from
the
fund
for
two
purposes.
One
is
to
pay
reasonable
expenses
for
administration,
and
the
only
other
purpose
is
allowed
for
use
of
funds
from
the
plan
is
to
pay
the
benefits
to
the
beneficiaries.
M
Next,
we
have
the
duty
of
prudence
which
really
focuses
on
process,
and
we
will
touch
a
little
bit
more
about
that
later
and
the
duty
to
diversify,
which
is
to
diversify
the
plans
portfolio
so
that
we
have
sufficient
competency
of
assets
to
pay
out
the
benefits
and
the
last
one
here
is
the
duty
to
follow
the
plan.
Now
this
one
also
intersects
with
the
another
issue,
which
is
to
maintain
the
plans,
qualify,
tax
status
and
so
following
the
plan
documents
and
the
terms
provided
to
us
is
very
important.
M
So
here
moving
on
to
the
next
slide,
we're
going
to
be
focusing
on
two
duties
today.
One
is
the
primary
duty
of
loyalty
that
I
mentioned,
and
this
Duty
requires
the
board
to
act
in
the
best
interest
of
the
members
and
beneficiaries
and
not
to
promote
any
other
interests,
whether
it
be
personal
or
the
interests
of
some
other
public
member,
and
so
the
primary
duty
of
loyalty
is
really
where
the
conflicts
of
interest
issues
intersect.
Here,
it's
it's
implicated
within
the
duty
of
loyalty
and
we'll
discuss
that
a
little
bit
further.
M
The
second
Duty
that
we
will
focus
on
is
the
duty
of
prudence
and
the
duty
of
prudence
imposes
on
this
board
a
duty
of
care
to
act
knowledgeably
and
with
the
prevailing
circumstances.
Under
the
time.
As
someone
who
was
in
your
shoes
would
have
died
next,
we
have
so
what
does
it
really
mean
to
be
loyal?
Now
each
of
the
trustees
sit
on
the
board
as
an
interested
board
member,
but
you're
not
sitting
on
the
board
as
a
representative
one
does
it,
for
example,
this
is
not
Congress.
M
Each
of
you
owe
a
duty
to
the
constituency
of
the
membership,
which
is
the
cons,
is
a
consistent
excuse.
Me
constituency
of
one
got
a
little
tongue-tied
on
that
word,
but
so
as
as
Trustees
of
the
board,
your
your
purpose
is
to
serve
the
members
and
beneficiaries
and
that
that
is
your
constituency,
the
entire
membership.
M
And
so
when
you're
seated
as
a
trustee,
considering
that
consist
constituency,
you
want
to
always
act
in
the
best
interest
of
them,
and
so
the
one
of
the
strongest
ways
to
determine
your
duty
of
loyalty
and
to
test
your
duty
of
loyalty
is
to
avoid
conflicts
of
interests,
and
that
includes
serving
other
members
interests.
Personal
Financial
interests,
accepting
gifts
that
could
otherwise
influence
you,
and
one
thing
I
want
to
also
raise.
Is
that
part
of
the
duty
of
loyalty
and
the
duty
to
avoid
conflicts?
M
M
M
So,
for
example,
if
you're
dealing
with
something
with
Actuarial
issues-
and
you
have
that
expertise-
you
then
wouldn't
go
work
on
investment
issues.
If
you
didn't
have
those
expertise,
you
would
delegate
to
those
who
have
those
expertise
to
do
it,
but
also
it
includes
avoiding
biases
pressures
that
impinge
on
your
good
judgment.
M
M
R
M
N
It's
the
board's
obligation,
of
course,
to
monitor
first
of
all,
to
Define
what
is
delegated
to
others
and
what
the
responsibilities
are,
whether
and
what
the
accountability
is
and
then
to
monitor
that
and
then
to
make
adjustments
to
make
sure
that
that's
consistent
with
the
board's
responsibilities,
but
you
have
to
it
would
not
in
fact,
under
the
circumstances
it
would,
it
would
not
be
prudent
for
the
board
to
not
delegate
responsibility
to
others.
There's
a
lot
of
couple
of
double
negatives
in
there
for
a
good
reason.
N
The
you,
a
board
that
meets
only
once
a
month
or
maybe
twice
with
committees,
cannot
possibly
carry
out
the
entire
work
that
this
board
is
responsible
for.
So
the
idea
is,
is
that
you
create
good
governance
parameters,
policies,
whether
they're
in
the
investment
policy
statement
or
benefit
staff
or
delegation
to
committees
and
staff,
and
then
you
monitor
that
keep
your
eyes
on
it.
But
when
you
delegate
responsibility
and
accountability
to
other
individuals,
you
need
to
let
them
do
their
jobs,
and
we
have
a
few
examples
of
that
in
the
scenarios.
N
I
think
that
that
help,
because
it's
very
difficult,
I
get
I,
hear
from
board
members
all
the
time.
Well,
the
buck
stops
with
me.
I'm
the
fiduciary
I
need
to
know
everything.
That's
going
on
and
I
need
to
participate
in
manager,
selection,
for
example,
and
I
need
to
participate
in
benefit
administration,
because
I
get
the
calls
from
the
members,
etc,
etc.
N
N
R
N
Okay,
no,
the
irony
is,
is
that,
even
though
some
of
you
come
on
the
board
with
different
expertise,
some
in
the
investment
side,
some
in
the
Personnel
side,
some
as
employees
of
the
city,
some
from
police
and
fire
you're
expected
as
a
fiduciary
to
know
it
all
and
do
it
all
and
have
an
opinion
about
it
all
from
benefit
Administration
to
disabilities.
To
audit
to
I
mean
you
know,
it's
a
remarkable
responsibility,
that's
placed
on
you,
and
so
we
really
do
need
to
lean
on
others
to
carry
out
a
lot
of
that
work.
M
N
You
know
when
a
fiduciary
delegates
responsibility
to
someone
else.
They
also
cloak
that
other
person
in
the
requirements
of
being
a
fiduciary
so
that
Maytag
and
I
are
your
fiduciaries,
Roberto
and
Prabhu
and
staff
are
fiduciaries
to
the
system,
just
as
you
board,
members
are
because
we
are
carrying
out
your
responsibilities
on
your
behalf.
N
N
Only
the
names
have
been
changed
to
protect
the
innocent,
and
so
you
can
see
what
I
want
to
do
with.
These
is
I
want
to
go
through
them
and
then
I'd,
like
your
views,
all
of
you
on
the
board
and
even
staff
to
comment
on
any
issues
that
you
see
being
raised
by
these
scenarios.
So
the
first
one
is
this:
let's
follow
along
with
this,
the
the
chair
of
the
investment
Committee
of
the
city,
employees,
retirement
Association,
big
city,
employees
be
Sarah,
so
we
have.
N
But
the
admission
fee
has
been
waived
for
guests
from
the
Pension
funds,
like
the
charity
investment
committee.
Well,
of
course
the
chair
is
flattered
to
be
invited.
Wouldn't
you
readily
accepts.
The
invitation
goes
to
the
event
where
he
is
thrilled
to
meet
with
representatives
from
two
firms
that
investment
staff
is
interviewing
that
very
week
for
a
new,
fixed
income
mandate.
N
N
C
P
How
are
you
this
Andrew
I
see
an
issue
with
you
know
the
emission
you
know
being
paid
for
500
dollars,
and
then
you
know
if,
if
it,
if
he
paid
for
it
himself
or
he
or
she
paid
for
it
for
himself,
you
know
that's
a
difference.
A
little
bit
different
situation,
but
having
it
offered
for
free,
is
you
know
as
a
red
flag
there,
and
then
also,
you
know
the
second
part
of
it
of
you
know,
trying
to
get
building
relationships.
N
N
P
N
R
N
P
P
M
The
exclusive
benefit
rule
again:
the
funds
in
the
can
only
be
used,
you
benefits
and
two
for
any
reasonable
administration
of
the
plan,
so
education
that
is
related
to
administration
of
the
plan.
So,
for
example,
if
you
go
to
a
conference
that
deals
with
Actuarial
issues
affecting
public
Pension
funds,
that
sort
of
seminar
would
count
here
in
this
example
that
we
have
here
is
for
high
school
youth.
That
is
not
this
type
of
subject
matter.
That
falls
within
the
administration
of
the
plan.
I
think
ceravada
was
making
that
point
well,.
B
There's
a
gray
Zone
here
so
I'm
venture
capital
and
I
don't
invest
in
firms,
I
invest
in
people,
and
so
if
this
was
a
charitable
event
and
their
VCS
there,
with
their
wives
and
and
the
subject
was
coming
up
as
to
which
funds
to
invest
in
I
would
read
that
as
a
vital
part
of
diligence
and
diligence,
Beyond
staff,
of
course,
because
if
a
35
year
old
shows
up
and
I
gotta
talk
to
him
if
Drew,
Lawns
or
Howard
Lee
shows
up
they're
going
to
talk
to
us.
What
do
you
think
about
that?
N
Well,
you
know
you
might,
but
if
you
could
persuade
the
board
that
it
was
within
the
system's
best
interest
that
you
attend
and
schmooze
with
these
VC
people
at
this
event,
then
then
it
would
become
an
expense
of
the
system
and
not
a
gift
to
you.
Let's
talk
about
the
specific
gift
here,
500
per
person,
the
the
current
state
limit,
the
F,
the
fair
political
practices
committee
limit
this
year
is
540
dollars.
N
You
can
you
could
you
cannot
accept
a
gift
greater
than
540
in
in
a
single
year
from
any
single
Source,
however,
and
this
is
the
reason
why
we
referred
to
the
city
ethics
code-
the
city
has
a
zero
gift
policy
you
may
need,
even
though
the
fppc
puts
a
540
dollar
limit.
If
you
look
here
at
paragraph
three
of
the
city
policy,
it's
a
zero
gift
policy.
N
So
if
you
want
to
avoid
this
conflict
of
interest
by
accepting
an
improper
gift,
this
would
have
to
be
deemed
to
be
a
fair
cost
or
expense
of
the
administering.
The
system
and
you'd
have
to
get
permission
from
the
board
to
attend
it.
Otherwise,
you
would
personally
be
accepting
a
gift
over
the
city
gift
limits.
E
That
was
me
Council,
so
everything
you
said
obviously
you're
an
attorney
I
have
been
working
with
you
for
about
20
years.
I
know
you're
very
well
by
now.
This
is
not
an
expense
that
I
would
consider.
It
should
be
something
the
plan
should
be
paying
for
it,
but
I
hear
what
you're
saying
but
I
think
what
I
was
going
to
say,
which
is
not
really
the
the
point
of
this
presentation.
E
Well.
First
of
all,
obviously
you
have
that
black
period
and
these
actually
gross
against
that
black
period,
where
you
don't
want
an
interaction
between
your
trustees
and
the
money
managers
that
are
coming
before
the
board
for
for
decision
making,
but
but
I
think
the
big
issue
that
I
see
here
as
well
is
that
you
can
go
through
all
these,
and
maybe
you
bore,
may
actually
end
up
selecting
the
right
firm,
which
is
the
best
investment
option
available
right.
N
N
O
N
Is
not
atypical.
This
goes
on
all
the
time
charitable
causes
are
created
for
the
sole
purpose
of
allowing
people
to
influence
decision-making
by
other
people,
and
so
where
you
are
the
bait,
you
should
have
a
red
flag
go
off
in
in
your
mind
here.
One
as
Roberta
was
alluding
to
the
chair
is
talking
to
two
firms
and
maybe
unbeknownst
to
the
chair.
Investment
staff
is
interviewing
that
very
week
now
there's
a
breakdown
in
communication
here,
because
there
should
be
a
quiet
period.
N
N
You
need
to
go
into
a
quiet
period
where
you're,
not
where
you're
you're,
not
attempting
to
or
appearing
to
attempt
to
influence
our
decision
making.
The
selection
of
those
managers
has
been
delegated
to
the
staff
and
if
the
board
interferes
with
that,
this
is
where
we
start
getting
into
what
we're
going
to
call
undue
influence
and
we'll
talk
about
that.
A
little
bit
more.
R
N
L
N
Q
Q
N
N
N
That's
really
scary,
yeah,
it's
what
it
may
be
intended
by
the
well-meaning
trustee
to
say,
I'm,
just
making
it
known
that
there's
this
venture
capitalist
out
there.
For
example,
you
take
it
from
here
coming
from
a
superior
in
the
organization
that
may
appear
to
the
investment
staffer
as
undue
influence,
as
looking
like
there's
an
implied
request
there
to
do
more
than
just
look
at
these
people,
but
to
to
actually
move
towards
approving
them.
So
you're
always
going
to
want
to
be
careful
about
how.
R
N
Q
And
if
I
could
just
clarify,
you
know
based
on
the
way
we
operate,
the
trustees
have
no
idea
what
the
staff
are
looking
at
right
and
it
may
be
in
most
cases
in
most
cases
right,
and
it
may
be
in
a
particular
case
that
you
know
we
actually
find
a
good
manager.
For
example,
we
are
not
trying
to
influence,
we
just
say
hey,
maybe
it's
maybe
good
for
you
to
talk
to
them
right,
yep,
that's,
that's
all
we're
doing
I
mean,
for
example,
I
was
at
you
know.
Q
N
I
I
think,
if
that's
all
you're
doing,
there's
nothing
wrong
with
that.
Okay,
but
you
want
to
you
want
to
make
sure
that
whoever
you're
talking
to
understands
that
you're
passing
it
off
at
that
point.
Yes,
okay
and-
and
you
mean
nothing
other
than
something
came
to
my
attention-
that
I
think
is
of
Interest.
Please
explore
it.
D
So
that's
a
great
point
that
trustee
Menon
brought
up,
so
we
do
get
introductions
and
we
appreciate
those
introductions
and
because
this
board
and
these
trustees
would
never
unduly
influence
us
and
it's
not
happened,
but
you
know
when,
when
an
introduction
is
made,
I
get
you
especially
to
a
junior
staff
member.
You
know.
If
it
comes
to
me,
you
know:
I
use
my
judgment
and
decide
whether
it's
to
be
passed
to
an
analyst
or
not.
D
But
if
an
introduction
is
made
directly
to
an
analyst,
they
might
feel
some
pressure,
because
this
comes
from
a
trustee
and
so
just
caution.
Trustees
about
that
and
I
think
it's
also
very
important.
When
trustees
talk
to
Pros
to
managers
and
say
hey,
this
is
interesting.
Yes,
trustee
man
and
said
yeah,
you
know
I'll
make
an
introduction,
but
without
giving
any
Assurance
to
the
manager
or
not
not
assure
and
say
that's
the
wrong
word
without
any
implied
obligation.
D
D
You
know
where
we
received
an
email,
an
introduction
from
a
manager
and
I
extended
the
courtesy
of
meeting
with
the
manager,
and
then
the
manager
somehow
assumed
that,
because
the
introduction
came
from
some
high
Authority
that
we
would
invest
with
them
and
take
multiple
meetings
right
and
finally,
I
had
to
tell
them.
Please
stop
bothering
me
and
so
I
think
that's
important
for
everyone
to
understand.
Yeah.
L
Sarah
Harvey
can
I
just
add
one
thing
to
make
sure
that
just
to
confirm
initially,
you
said
if
it
was
a
manager
that
wasn't
that
wasn't
known
to
staff
would
be
okay.
But
are
you
adjusting
that
saying
in
the
case
with
esport
just
mentioned
that
if
it's
a
manager
that
staff
may
not
know
that
it's
still
okay
to
make
that
introduction,
if
all
you're
doing
is
passing
it
over
yeah.
N
So
the
board
doesn't
inadvertently
do
anything
to
try
to
influence
that
you
know
by
making
a
further
introduction
or
an
endorsement
but
yeah
having
that
dialogue.
When
that
happens,
and
then
it's
the
responsibility
of
staff
to
say
well,
you
know
Howard
we're
in
the
process
of
interviewing
these
people
now,
so
you
know
we
we
get
it
we're
aware
of
them.
Thank
you
for
making
the
introduction
and
we'll
take
it
from
here.
So
there
has
to
be
a
dialogue
back
and
forth
on
that
all
right
thanks.
Our
scenario.
N
Number
two
is
exactly
what
Prabhu
was
talking
about.
In
this
scenario,
the
the
pension
fund
is
announcing
that
it's
going
to
die.
It's
got
too
many
private
Equity
managers
they're
spread
out
all
over,
so
it's
going
to
downsize
its
pool
of
private
Equity
managers
and
take
out
the
ones
that
over
time
have
underperformed.
N
Now
the
mayor
hears
of
this
plan,
the
mayor
in
this
fictitional
city,
here's
the
plan
calls
the
trustee
who
sits
as
chair
of
the
investment
committee,
who's
also
an
appointee
by
the
city.
The
mayor
says:
listen,
you
guys
do
what
you
want
over
at
the
pension
fund,
but
this
firm
called
wing
and
prayer
LLC.
N
N
So,
of
course,
the
chair
has
been
appointed
by
the
mayor,
approaches
a
subordinate
in
investment
officer
and
says:
listen,
don't
mess
with
wing
in
a
prayer
whatever
you
do
downtown
wants
them
protected,
but
I
can't
go
to
the
CIO.
For
this
he's
stubborn,
he
would
do
exactly
the
opposite
of
I
told
him
this
you
take
care
of
wing
and
prayer
privately,
and
you
know
what
you
could
be
in
line
to
succeed.
The
CIO.
O
N
Yeah,
this
is
there's
so
many
quid
pro
quoes
here
that
we
can't
even
track
them
down
and
and
anytime
there's
a
quid
pro
quo
with
with
the
assets
of
the
pension
fund
or
the
management
of
the
pension
fund,
you
should
run
for
the
exit
and
not
participate
in
it.
Obviously
this
is,
you
know
so
many
levels
of
undue
influence,
and
maybe
it's
too
obvious,
but
this
is
not
a
fictition
fictitious
story.
N
R
R
R
N
N
The
city
has
a
whistleblower
policy
by
the
way
you're
aware
of
that
to
protect
people
in
this
situation.
If
they
were,
in
fact,
if
they
took
it
to
a
superior,
should
the
should
the
investment?
What
would
you
want
the
investment
officer
to
do
go
to
the
CIO,
ignore
it
I
mean,
what's
the
best
of
what's
you're,
you've
delegated
a
lot
of
responsibility
to
the
investment
office
in
this
scenario,
so
I
think
going.
C
N
H
Hey
Harvey
dick
Santos
yeah,
dick
yeah.
You
know
it's
rare,
that
these
kind
of
things
happen
that
I've
been
involved
with,
but
here's
the
deal
as
Drew
always
said
anytime,
you
see
something,
there's
a
yellow
flag,
but
even
then
the
I,
probably
of
all
the
years
I've
worked.
I,
probably
called
you
two
times.
If
I
think
anything
is
iffy,
that's
just
what
I
do
automatically
and
so
and
even
in
the
water
district.
When
there's
something
comes
up,
it
could
be
controversial.
H
B
No,
no!
No!
No!
Hang
on
Harvey!
This
is
one
of
those
times.
I
think
you
should
act
out
of
your
best
interest.
I'm,
an
old
man!
Kids!
Listen
to
me!
You
see
this!
You
either
stand
and
fight
or
you
run
away.
I
would
resign
immediately
if
I
was
working
for
the
CIO
I'm
out
if
I'm
the
CIO
I'm
out,
if
I'm
a
trustee
I'm
out,
because
this
is
a
heavy
fight
in
an
army
yep.
B
N
B
I
was
speaking
as
if
you're
an
observer.
You
were
saying
what,
if
you
observed
this,
what
would
you
do?
I'm
sort
of
at
the
J
School
of
mine
I'm,
either
going
to
take
this
on
on
and
go
full-born
kill
these
Knuckleheads
or
I'm
out
and
having
engaged
in
these
kind
of
fights,
kids
just
leave,
some
things
are
so
broken,
you
can't
fix
them
and
she
was
sort
of
said
RV.
This
is
really
broken.
This.
N
N
We
have
a
trustee
who's,
a
registered
investment
advisor,
that's
not
unusual
for
our
public
Pension
funds
and
they
happen
to
be
between
jobs.
The
trustee
is
searching
for
new
employment
with
in
the
public
Equity
business
they're
in
a
manager
interview
interviewing
for
a
job.
An
interviewer
hints
that
an
introduction
to
be
Sarah
the
pension
fund
might
help
this
trustee
land
the
job.
N
N
The
trustee,
meanwhile,
doesn't
disclose
to
the
CIO
that
she's
looking
for
employment
with
this
manager
turns
out.
The
cio's
team
has
already
rejected
that
public
Equity
manager
because
they
had
a
hundred
percent
turnover
of
their
senior
staff
at
in
the
last
year,
so
they
had
considered
and
rejected
this.
This
public,
this
public
Equity
manager,
question
here,
is:
what
do
you
want
the
CIO
to
do
in
this
situation?
N
Q
N
It
is
incumbent
upon
you,
if
you
have
any
personal
financial
interest
in
something
that
comes
before
the
board,
to
disclose
it.
You
may
need
to
recuse
yourself
from
participating
just
to
avoid
being
a
criminal
charge,
but
it
you
owe
it
to
yourselves
as
your
Collective
fiduciary
body,
and
if
one
of
you
were
in
a
situation
where
your
personal
financial
interests,
as
as
they
are
here
with
getting
a
job,
could
affect
your
judgment
on
something
that
comes
before
staff
or
the
board.
M
N
But
you
owe
it
to
each
other
to
disclose
those
kind
of
things
so
that
each
of
you
is
enabled
to
make
a
fair
and
impartial
and
unbiased
decision
on
behalf
of
the
system
and
so
there's
a
level
of
trust
that
has
to
be.
It
has
to
go
along
with
your
conduct
in
situations
like
this.
That
could
involve
your
own
personal
interests.
So
let's
wrap
this
up
a
little
bit
on
slide
nine.
N
If
you
would
maintain
it's
very
tricky
to
try
to
draw
a
bright
line
between
what
is
reasonable
involvement
by
the
board
and
what
is
over
the
line
and
becomes
undue
influence
there.
There
are
some
things,
though,
that
you
can
kind
of
highlight
to
try
to
avoid
you.
You
want
to
avoid
trying
anytime
you
try
to
exert
influence
over
decisions
that
you've
delegated
to
other
responsible
persons,
because
you're
expecting
them
to
make
fair
and
impartial
and
prudent.
N
Red
flags
should
go
up
because,
even
if
the
influence
is
not
intended,
it
could
be
perceived
to
be
influenced
anytime,
and
we
know
that
from
many
workplace
trainings
as
well
anytime,
you
have
a
superior
leaning
on
or
trying
to
influence
the
decision-making
of
an
inferior
person.
You
have
the
potential
for
undue
influence
and
then
again
you
want
to
avoid
actions
that
are
motivated
by
your
own
personal
interests.
N
We've
actually
had
an
annual
certification
by
staff
members
that
they
have
been
free
of
undue
influence
during
the
prior
year.
I'm,
not
suggesting
that
we
do
anything
like
that
here
in
San
Jose.
But
it's
it
is
a
serious
topic
and
in
order
to
attract
the
best
and
the
brightest
to
carry
out
our
delegated
responsibilities,
we
need
to
be
able
to
assure
our
employees
that
there
is
a
Level
Playing
Field
and
that
they
are
free
to
make
decisions
and
recommendations
back
to
the
board
without
having
influence
affect
those
decisions.
N
So
it's
something
that
other
systems
take
as
seriously
as
we
do
here
in
San
Jose,
and
there
are
many
ways
of
dealing
with
it:
policies,
certifications
and
that
sort
of
thing,
I,
would
say,
I'm
not
aware
here
in
San,
Jose
of
any
egregious
examples
like
I
put
up
in
these
scenarios,
but
it's
something
for
us
always
to
be:
did
vigilant
for
and
diligent
about
so
happy
to
answer.
Any
questions.
Maytag
and
I
are
always
available.
If
something
comes
up
and
you
have
a
question-
and
this
goes
for
staff
as
well.
N
R
Yeah
I
was
just
going
to
follow
up
on
something
Prabhu
said
because
many
of
us
are
in
conferences
or
situations
where
you
know
other
people
look
at
us
as
LPS,
particularly
or
investors
and
say
hey.
Can
you
consider
our
fund
right,
I
mean
I'm
in
a
situation
right
now
and
I
was
going
to
pass
it
on
to
Prabhu
and
Dinesh.
R
So
is
there
something
with
something
that
Prabhu
said
that
triggered
me
since
Prabhu
is
I'm,
not
saying
Dinesh
is
not,
you
know,
can
is
not
somebody
who's,
gonna
feel
pressure
or
anything
like
that,
but
is
it
maybe
policy
that
we
should
pass
it
on
to
Prabhu,
because
pramu
can
tell
me?
Oh
you
know
this
is
this
is
nonsense
whether
Dinesh
may
not
feel
comfortable
too,
like
some
sort
of
a
rule
of
time
or
policy
where
we
send
referrals
to
trouble.
D
Yeah
no
great
question
and
thanks
for
bringing
it
up,
Sunita,
yes,
I,
would
appreciate
that
right.
Any
kind
of
introduction
can
be
made
to
Dinesh
or
to
Jay
or
to
Christina
with
a
copy
to
me
and
with
always
with
the
statement
in
that
email.
This
is
an
introduction.
I,
don't
know
the
manager
I,
don't
know
if
they're
good
or
not
it's
entirely
your
decision
or
something
to
that
effect.
I
think
that
would
always
be
helpful
for
us
and
in
fact,
I
have
received
similar
emails
from
trustees.
D
E
K
E
A
search
they're
doing
research-
this
is
completely
off
to
to
staff.
I,
do
not
get
involved,
I'm
happy
to
introduce
you
and
they
will
take
it
from
there,
so
I'm
very
clear
to
them
that
this
is
their
call
and
it's
their
decision.
Basically
not
only
so
they're
clear,
but
also
so
staff
knows
that
as
well,
and
you
know
they
don't
come
back
to
me-
the
person
hey,
they
didn't
want
to
talk
to
me,
or
they
said
this
or
that
I
make
it
very
clear
to
them.
E
E
E
N
So
yes,
there
is
that
kind
of
disclosure.
The
certification
I
was
talking
about
as
one
that
would
come
from
staff
to
certify
from
their
perspective
that
they
haven't
been
unduly
pressured
in
carrying
out
their
job.
I
I
would
I'm
gonna
offer
a
bit
of
a
preference
in
the
situation
that
Prabhu
was
just
talking
about.
N
I
would
prefer
if
there
are
introductions
to
be
made
or
those
kind
of
communications
that
they
go
to
the
CIO
and
not
to
in
subordinate
investment
officers,
and
then
the
C.
The
CIO
has
paid
the
big
bucks
and
has
the
big
title
to
take
that
responsibility
and
to
decide
whether
it's
appropriate
or
not
under
the
circumstances
to
them,
and
if
the
CIO
thinks
so,
they
can
be
delegated
by
the
CIO
to
investment
officers
to
run
down
and
do
that
sort
of
thing.
N
B
Let
me
jump
in
with
an
opinion
for
many
many
years
of
doing
this,
so
the
tension
here
is
that
information
is
good.
She
needs
it
was
at
a
conference.
Somebody
has
a
new
product.
She
says
that
might
be
perfect
for
PNF
and
she
wants
to
close
that
information,
and
so
many
of
you
may
wonder
why
I'm
so
a
informal
at
these
meetings
and
B.
Why
I'm
so
complementary
of
Staff?
Well
I
am
inherently
an
informal
guy
and
I
think
we
have
a
great
staff,
but
that's
not
why
I
do
it
I?
B
Do
it
deliberately
right
so
that
I
develop?
If
you
will
a
personal
relationship
with
people
like
Ron
and
Dinesh
and
Prabhu,
so
it's
just
information
flowing
right,
I'm,
just
telling
you
what
I
tell
you
it's
informal
information
flows,
I'll
I'll
tell
you
Harvey!
If
and
I
do
this
with
startup
companies,
if
I
say
something
to
somebody
and
it
influences
them,
I
fired
them.
That's
not
on
me!
That's
on
them
right!
B
It's
a
two-way
talk,
I'm,
just
giving
you
information
and
if
you
misinterpret
that
to
be
me,
swaying
you
you're
an
idiot
right
because
that's
not
that's
not!
Well!
You
know
here
are
the
rules
of
the
game.
You
know
I'm,
actually,
yeah
I
went
to
a
conference
here.
Prabhu.
Let
me
you
know,
let
me
stop
a
call
with
you
and
Ron.
Let
me
just
tell
you
what
I
heard
and
if
somebody
says
ooh,
maybe
you
still
need
to
want
to
do
something
about
that.
B
Man,
dude
you're
fired
because
I
know
Sunita
and
that's
not
what
she
meant
and
she
would
never
say
it
that
way-
and
you
know
I've
talked
about
this
many
times
Harvey
and
it's
hard
because
some
men
35
year
old,
guys
dick
Santos
and
you
said
something
to
me:
dude,
you
you're
not
reading
the
game.
Right,
if
you
do
that,
but
as
you
say,
Harvey
that's
human
nature,
Sunshine
is
disinfecting.
The
second
best
disinfectant
I
think
is
trusting
relationships.
R
Q
Q
M
I
think,
may
we
take
a
step
back
so
I
think
there's
two
issues
here.
There's
one
an
inherent
conflict
and
the
other
is
the
appearance
of
a
conflict
under
the
Cal
under
the
San
Jose
ethics
code.
Anything
that
appears
to
be
a
conflict
taking
an
objective
standpoint.
You
know,
intentions
are
one
thing
and
intentions
are
hard
to
judge.
B
Yeah
I
think
it's
exactly
the
tension,
May
check.
We
want
the
information
to
flow,
but
information
is
powerful
and
it
can
often
be
misconstrued,
and
so
we
simultaneously
want
the
information
to
flow,
but
when
it
flows
such
a
way
that
somebody
doesn't
misconstrue
it-
and
that
is
the
tension
and
by
the
way
that
same
tension
exists
in
the
startup
with
six
people,
this
is
I
mean
board.
Members
are
powerful
and
I
talk
to
design
Engineers
all
the
time,
their
bosses.
B
What
the
hell
were
you
talking
to
my
guy
about
well
I,
know
something:
I
went
to
the
guy,
you
know,
and
some
bosses
really
react
negatively.
That
and
some
employees
think
oh
Drew
told
me
it
should
be
purple.
No
dude
I,
just
told
you,
the
competitor
was
being
in
purple
I'm,
not
saying
you
should
make
it
purple.
So
are
we
good
any
more
questions
for
many.
R
N
Well,
your
age,
fiduciaries
and
you're
and
you're
each
supposed
to
exercise
independent,
unbiased
judgment,
educated
judgment
in
circumstances,
so
part
of
that
is
governed
by
the
brown
act
and
what
kind
of
way
you
can
communicate
with
you
know,
you're
supposed
to
be
communicating
only
during
open
meetings,
public
meetings,
except
on
you
know,
with
some
exceptions,
for
making
decisions,
but
you
know
in
closed
meetings,
but
they
still
have
to
be
in
meetings
anytime.
You
get
more
than
one
trustee
sharing
their
thoughts
with
another
trustee
out
of
a
meeting.
N
The
board
meetings
and
the
committee
meetings
that
are
conducted
publicly
are
the
place
where
we
can
get
together
and
exchange
ideas
when
you
exchange
ideas
outside
those
meetings
and
and
it's
human
nature.
But
you
know
two
people
getting
together
and
saying
you
know
I
think
we
should
hire
a
certain
manager
I
like
them
or
something
maybe
that's
harmless.