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From YouTube: Auditor General Committee - February 2, 2023
Description
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A
And
welcome
to
the
auditor
general
committee
meeting
I
call
this
auditor
general
committee
meeting
of
Thursday
February,
2nd
2023
to
order
this
committee
meeting
is
being
convened
by
electronic
means
is
authorized
under
part
14
of
the
procedure
bylaw.
As
such
committee
members
May
participate
in
person
or
by
electronic
means.
If
any
Committee
Member
loses
connection
during
the
voting
process,
we
have
staff
on
hand
to
facilitate
getting
you
back
online
quickly.
While
we
suspend
the
voting
process,
the
contact
information
has
been
circulated
to
you.
A
Members
of
the
public
can
view
the
proceedings
via
the
live
stream
and
YouTube
link,
which
will
be
tweeted
out
by
at
Vancity
clerk
on
Twitter
video
of
committee
members
speaking
presentations,
amendments
and
vote
results
will
be
projected
to
viewers
when
available.
Many
members
are
reminded
to
please
enable
their
video
to
ensure
Quorum
is
maintained
during
the
meeting
under
section
14.13
of
the
procedure
bylaw.
If
attending
virtually
the
external
members
of
the
committee
can
access
the
speaking
queue
by
clicking
the
raise
hand
icon
on
WebEx
or
raise
your
hand.
A
We
acknowledge
that
we
are
on
the
unseated
homelands
of
the
Muslim
Squamish
and
sleep
with
tooth
people.
We
thank
them
for
having
cared
for
this
land
and
look
forward
to
working
with
them
in
Partnership,
as
we
continue
to
build
this
great
City
together.
I
also
want
to
take
a
moment
to
recognize
the
immense
contributions
of
the
city
of
Vancouver
staff,
who
work
hard
every
day
to
help
make
our
city
an
incredible
place
to
live,
work
and
play
clerk.
May
we
have
the
roll
call?
Please?
Yes,.
B
Councilor
kirbya
present
counselor
dominato
out
here
counselor
for
I
is
the
chair
and
counselor
Boyle
Crescent
counselor
Montague
and
external
representative
Archie
Johnson.
A
Thanks
Clerk
and
before
we
begin
plan
for
the
day
we
have
some
announcements.
Any
comments
on
the
agenda
item
can
be
sent
to
the
committee
using
the
web
form
on
the
city's
website.
The
link
to
that
form
will
be
tweeted
out
on
at
fancity.
Clerk.
I
also
want
to
note
the
city
of
Vancouver's,
long-standing
commitment
to
equity,
diversity
and
inclusion,
including
utmost
respect
for
all
genders.
A
A
Finally,
I'd
like
to
remind
committee
members
that
if
amendments
are
brought
forward,
they
must
be
submitted
to
the
clerk
in
final
written
form
before
the
council
member
introduces
them.
Please
ensure
the
clerk
has
received
your
amendments
by
using
the
count
council
meeting
amendments
DL,
we
will
begin
with
the
motion
to
go
in
camera
later
today.
A
A
The
next
item
on
the
agenda
is
the
2022
annual
report
and
I
would
now
like
to
invite
the
auditor
general
to
introduce
and
present
this
item.
What
are
you
Mike.
C
A
little
closer
does
that
work
better.
Okay,
thank
you.
So
a
great
pleasure
of
providing
my
first
annual
report
is
auditor
general
for
the
city
of
Vancouver.
I
released
this
in
conjunction
with
the
2023
audit
plan,
which
was
circulated
to
council
last
weekend
is
now
available
on
my
my
web
page.
C
So
to
achieve
that,
my
annual
report
is
also
my
office's
2023
operational
plan,
so
you
can
see
in
one
place
how
we've
performed
where
we've
been
where
we
are
now
and
where
we're
headed
in
the
future
overall
I
have
to
say
looking
back
on
2022,
it
was
a
fairly
satisfying
year
with
an
achievement
of
some
pretty
significant
Milestones,
most
importantly,
being
the
transition
from
building
a
new
legislative
audit
office
to
operating
one
which
began
with
our
first
formal
audit
meeting
with
the
development
buildings
and
licensing
department
on
March
17th.
C
As
at
the
end
of
the
year,
December
31st.
We
had
three
audits
underway,
the
first
of
which
the
committee
will
be
discussing
in
just
a
few
moments.
Nonetheless,
excuse
me
and
while
the
hiring
process
took
longer
than
I
wanted
and
resulted
in
delays
in
starting
all
three
of
the
audits.
Nonetheless,
I'm
pleased
to
report
that
we
had
a
full
staff
compliment
by
the
end
of
October
next
slide.
Please,
and
here
they
are
so
from
left
to
right.
C
Felix,
Chu,
subram,
premachandran,
Laurie,
Bert
who's
with
me
here
today:
Jenny
Lau,
Kenny,
Cham,
Stacy,
Lee,
Cindy,
Chang
and
Lorinda
Stoneman
I'm.
Really
quite
pleased
and
proud
of
this
team
and
I'd
like
to
tell
you
just
a
little
bit
more
about
them
next
slide.
C
Please,
every
staff
member
has
at
least
an
undergraduate
degree
in
the
wide
range
of
fields:
Commerce,
criminology,
history,
politics,
biology
and
general
arts
and
all,
but
one
of
the
team
also
has
either
a
graduate
degree
or
professional
designation
and
somehow
both
graduate
degrees
boast
at
the
Masters
and
doctoral
level
range
from
business
to
criminology
education
and
child
and
Youth
Care.
As
far
as
the
professional
designations,
we
have
five
Charter
professional
accountants,
three
certified
Information,
Systems
Auditors,
two
certified
fraud,
examiners
and
two
certified
internal
auditors
combined.
We
have
over
70
years
of
audit
experience.
C
Some
of
us
are
fairly
new.
Some
of
us
have
been
at
it
for
for
a
little
while,
but
it's
a
pretty
great
mix
next
slide.
Please
thanks!
C
Like
lady
any
leading
organization,
we
monitor
our
performance
through
a
framework
that
outlines
why
we're
here
and
what
we're
trying
to
accomplish
ours
begins
with
a
mandate
drawn
verbatim
from
the
auditor
general
bylaw
to
assist
counsel
in
holding
itself
in
City
administrators,
accountable
for
the
quality
of
stewardship.
C
Over
public
funds
and
for
achievement
of
value
for
money
and
City
operations,
our
four
goals,
each
with
an
Associated
key
performance
indicator
or
two
describes
how
we
fulfill
our
mandate
and
execute
on
the
mission,
which
is
to
provide
assurance
that
the
city
of
Vancouver
services
are
delivered
with
due
care
for
economy,
efficiency
and
Effectiveness
I'll
go
through
each
goal
individually.
If
you
do
the
next
slide,
please.
C
The
chair
has
been
by
to
see
the
new
space
and
I
would
invite
all
the
committee
members
to
come
by
and
visit
at
their
convenience.
Lastly,
foundational
components
such
as
policies
and
and
procedure
manuals
and
audit
manual
were
completed
on
time
by
the
end
of
Q3.
However,
team
training
was
pushed
back
to
the
to
Q4
because
of
the
hiring
delays
I
spoke
up
a
moment
ago.
Making
the
office
operational
in
2022
was.
My
primary
goal
was
job
one.
C
If
you
can
say
and
I'm
happy
to
report,
it's
been
accomplished
so,
as
a
consequence,
we're
going
to
be
discontinuing
this
and
adopting
a
new
goal,
one
in
2023
next
slide.
Please
this
past
June
Council
approved
a
motion
from
this
committee
to
assign
responsibility
for
the
city's
whistleblower
function
to
the
auditor
general.
The
city's
work
on
revising
the
city's
whistleblower
policy
is
ongoing,
but
in
anticipation
of
this
change,
the
new
goal,
one
is
to
establish
an
independent
whistleblower
function
within
my
office
with
two
kpis
first
is
to
hire
two
investigators
to
support
the
function.
C
Funding
for
this
was
included
in
my
annual
budget
request,
which
was
endorsed
by
this
committee
and
approved
by
Council
on
January
17th,
the
second
kpis
to
develop
and
Implement
procedures
for
the
intake,
processing,
investigation
and
reporting
of
whistleblower
activities.
C
C
Goal
two
to
produce
high
quality
work
is
something
that
I
think
will
happen
during
Valley
for
many
years
this
year,
I
had
intended
to
produce
three
audit
reports.
Unfortunately,
hiring
delays
pushed
all
of
this
back.
Our
first
audit
report
was
released
last
week
and
our
second
is
scheduled
for
the
22nd
of
this
month.
A
study
of
whistleblowing
practices
was
presented
to
this
Committee
in
April
and
while
not
an
audit
and
nonetheless
was
a
report
so
I'm
counting
that
as
one
the
second
kpi
speaks
to
external
quality
review
by
my
practice
regulator.
C
C
Go
three
is
to
provide
City
departments
with
objective
and
helpful
recommendations,
as
evidenced
by
three
things:
the
proportion
of
recommendations
accepted
by
audited
departments.
The
proportion
of
audit
recommendations
endorsed
by
this
committee
and
the
proportion
of
recommendations
implemented
over
three
years
with
the
the
issuance
of
our
first
report,
will
actually
be
able
to
start
measuring
the
first
two
of
those
kpis
as
of
today.
C
The
last
goal
is
for
our
work
to
yield
cost
savings
or
enhanced
revenues
that
at
least
match
our
operational
costs
over
five
years
with
the
issuance
of
our
first
reports.
We'll
start
measuring
this
result
this
year,
although
we
won't
be
able
to
fully
measure
it
until
we've
been
around
for
five
years.
A
Is
that
sorry
I
see
Archie
hand
up
sorry,
Council
Kirby
young?
Did
you
have
your
hand
up
as
well.
D
Okay,
thank
you
Mike
for
the
overview
and
the
update
with
respects
to
The
Whistleblower
function,
which
I
know
was
not
originally
contemplated
when
the
office
was
set
up,
but
I
think
we've
identified
and
Council
supported
the
importance
of
having
that
the
independence
of
that
function,
distinct
out
of
sort
of
Staff
Administration
I'm
wondering
if
you
can
walk
us
through
the
timeline,
if
I'm
wearing
q1,
why
it
takes
up
to
Q4
to
get
that
set
up,
because
I
know
that
if
I
recall
correctly,
there
were
some
changes
made
to
The
Whistleblower
policy
to
facilitate
this
function
happening
in
the
oag
and
so
I'm
just
wondering
what
steps
need
to
take
place
or
is
it
hiring
or
why
does
it
take
till
the
end
of
the
year
to
get
that
up
and
running.
C
Thanks
for
that,
actually,
the
revised
whistleblower
policy
has
not
yet
come
before.
Council
I'm,
not
running
that
show
that's
the
city,
so
I'm
not
really
able
to
speak
to
the
status
of
that.
C
So
the
I
believe
the
policy
will
come
to
this
committee
for
discussion
and
then
be
recommended
to
council
for
adoption
and
then
not
knowing
exactly
what
that
looks.
Like
I
haven't
started
the
hiring
process
because
I
don't
have
job
descriptions
in
place.
I
have
a
rough
idea,
but
the
intention
was
that
I
won't
be
actually
having
whistleblower
staff
on
board
until
Q4,
so
putting
together.
What
we're
actually
going
to
do
is
going
to
be
very
much
derived
from
what
The
Whistleblower
policy
actually
looks
like
and
at
this
point
I
can't
speak
to
that.
D
Okay,
do
you
have
it
following
up
on
that
then,
and
thanks
for
the
reminder,
I
think.
Perhaps
it
was
a
different
by
laws
that
we
updated
so
I
appreciate
that.
But
do
you
have
any
indication
from
City
staff
as
to
the
status
of
the
updates
to
The
Whistleblower
policy
or
when
staff
will
be
bringing
that
forward,
and
do
you
have
any
concern
sort
of
a
Corollary
question
to
that
that
it's
going
to
be
an
independent
function?
And
yet
you
have
staff
determining
what
the
policy
is.
C
Well,
it's
suffice
it
to
say
that
I
won't
be
recommending
any
changes
to
the
Whistleblower
policy
that
I
can't
support.
So,
while
I'm
not
involved
at
this
particular
juncture,
I
will
be
reviewing
it
before
it
goes
to
you.
D
Okay,
all
right,
that's
probably
a
good
follow-up
action
item
for
the
committee,
then
to
look
into
that,
because
it
would
seem
beneficial
to
move
it
forward.
Okay
and
then
I
guess.
My
last
question
is:
were
there
any
sort
of
anything
that
you
didn't
mention
in
your
report
that
you
would
want
to
highlight
for
the
committees
or
any
thing
that
stood
out
that
you
were
surprised
by
this
year?
Whether
did
you
encounter
any
hurdles
that
you
didn't
anticipate?
Is
there
something
else
we
should
be
asking
you.
C
No
not
really
I've
had
great
cooperation
from
City
staff,
as
my
team
has
got,
teams
have
gone
out
and
and
begun
our
first
three
audits.
It's
been
an
interesting
process
every
day
we
learn
something
new.
The
city
is
a
large
and
complex
organization,
and,
and
virtually
all
of
my
team
are
new
to
the
city
and
we've
had
great
support
and,
as
we've
done,
our
work.
A
Thanks
counselor
Kirby
young
counselor,
Montague.
E
Thanks
chair,
hopefully
just
one
quick
question
here:
you
mentioned
the
delays
in
getting
the
office
set
up,
so
there
was
only
one
audit
completed
instead
of
the
three
you
were
hoping
to.
You
have
a
target
of
six
for
2023..
Are
you
hoping
to
play
a
little
catch
up
or
is
everything
just
getting
pushed
a
little.
C
Thanks
for
that,
we're
well
we're.
We
have
one
out
the
door
already
this
year,
that
was
last
week.
We'd
have
another
one
coming
out
in
about
three
weeks
time.
We
have
another
one
scheduled
to
to
be
released
in
in
April.
So
there's
three,
we
start
a
new
audit,
we
do
a
follow-up
audit
and
we
do
a
report
on
our
whistleblowing
activities
at
the
end
of
the
year.
So
that
gets
us
to
six
okay.
A
Chair.
Thank
you
great
thanks
and
thanks
councilor,
Montague
and
last,
but
certainly
not
least,
external
liaison
to
the
committee
Archie
Johnston.
F
Thank
you,
chair
and
I
just
to
for
the
other
committee
members,
so
that
you're
aware
I
had
a
a
bit
of
a
lengthy
conversation
with
Mike
earlier
this
week,
just
to
go
through
a
number
of
the
points
and
I
was
very
satisfied
with
the
with
the
understanding
and
also
the
direction
and
the
work
that
the
honor
General
has
been
performing
over
this
last
year.
So
congratulations
Mike
on
doing
a
great
job.
F
There
were
two
points
I
was
wanting
to
make
on
the
annual
report.
I
guess
the
first
one
is
just
sort
of
echoing
the
comments
of
counselor
Kirby
young.
Just
about
the
importance
of
the
whistlebore
function.
Moving
over
to
the
auditor
generals
domain
and
I
appreciate
your
doggedness
in
terms
of
chasing
that
through
and
being
the
squeaky
wheel,
so
I
think
that's
important
to
move
along
in
2020
three
and
the
other
one
was
around
the
goal.
Four
about
the
positive
return
on
investment
per
Vancouver
taxpayers.
I.
F
A
A
Okay,
thank
you
all
right.
Seeing
no
further
questions.
Would
someone
like
to
move
a
motion
ideally
to
receive
this
for
information
and
transmit
it
to
the
rest
of
council.
A
D
councilor
Montague
by
councilor
Montague,
to
receive
on
favor
used
seeing
none
any
any
additional
discussion.
A
C
Okay,
thank
you,
slides
are
out.
It
gives
me
great
pleasure
to
speak
to
you
today
about
the
first
audit
report
issued
by
my
brand
new
office
I'd
like
to
if
I
could
go
to
the
next
slide.
Please
at
least
thank
you,
I'd
like
to
start
by
thanking
mayor
and
Council,
as
well
as
the
previous
mayor
and
Council,
for
the
opportunity
to
conduct
this
work
and
contribute
to
improving
the
economy,
efficiency
and
effectiveness
of
the
city's
operations.
C
Today,
I'm
presenting
the
results
from
our
audit
of
building
permit
fees.
The
topic
was
identified
in
my
2022
audit
plan,
based
on
a
request
from
the
development
buildings
and
licensing
department.
On
that
note,
I
thank
dbl's
general
manager
and
the
city's
Chief
Building
official
for
their
leadership
in
volunteering
to
go
first
and
for
the
for
the
full
cooperation
that
they
provided
and
their
teams
provided
during
the
course
of
the
audit
you'll
be
hearing
from
DBL
at
the
end
of
my
presentation
as
we
go
to
the
next
slide.
Please.
C
The
purpose
of
building
permits
is
to
ensure
projects
comply
with
the
Vancouver
building
bylaw,
which
we'll
just
call
the
building
bylaw
in
the
presentation
to
meet
Life
Safety,
livability,
accessibility
and
sustainability
requirements
that
it
contains
building
permit
fees
are
cost-based
regulatory
fees.
A
concept
sometimes
referred
to
as
user
pay,
cost-based
fees
are
set
at
a
level.
That's
intended
to
recover
the
full
cost
of
providing
the
service.
The
city's
Effectiveness
in
achieving
its
cost
recovery
objective
is
the
subject
of
a
separate
audit
to
be
released
later
this
year.
C
The
next
slide.
Please
dbl's
housing,
review
and
building
review
branches,
assess
the
vast
majority
of
building
permit
fees
for
new
buildings
and
we're
the
focus
of
our
work.
The
housing
reviewer
Branch
administers
permits
for
construction
of
new
one
and
two
family
dwellings,
laneway
houses
and
secondary
Suites.
C
C
C
The
bylaw
also
allows
the
city's
Chief
Building
official
to
review
the
value
of
the
proposed
work
and
to
substitute
a
different
value
using
a
cost
estimation
tool
called
Marshall
and
Swift
next
slide.
Please,
the
objective
of
the
audit
was
to
determine
whether
DBL
implemented
processes
to
accurately
and
consistently
assess,
building
permit
fees
in
compliance
with
the
building.
Bylaw
We
examined
building
permit
fees
for
new
buildings
administered
by
the
housing
review
and
building
review
branches
from
January
1st
2021
to
June
30th
2022.
C
We
set
out
to
examine
the
accuracy
of
building
permit
fees,
Associated
administrative
processes
and
practices
and
whether
these
processes
were
designed
to
comply
with
all
relevant
sections
of
the
building
bylaw.
The
audit
was
focused
specifically
on
building
permit
fees
for
new
buildings
and
did
not
include
other
related
permits,
such
as
building
permits
for
renovation
projects.
There
may
be
a
large
number
of
these
other
projects,
but
the
dollars
involved
are
relatively
small
compared
to
new
construction.
C
Also
out
of
scope
was
an
assessment
of
the
building.
Permit
occupy,
excuse
me,
processing
times
well,
I
know
this
is
a
topic
of
great
interest.
Processing
times
were
under
review
by
the
city's
permitting
modernization,
Task
Force
at
the
time
of
the
audit
and
I
just
didn't
see
value
in
inserting
myself
in
the
middle
of
that,
however,
do
you
reserve
the
right
to
look
at
the
success
of
their
efforts
at
a
later
date?
C
Next
slide,
please
thank
you.
Included
in
the
scope
of
our
examination
or
just
over
a
thousand
permits
issued
by
the
housing
review
Branch
with
an
estimated
value
of
construction
for
approximately
630
million
dollars
in
total,
permit
fee
value
of
4
million
dollars
and
64
permits
issued
by
the
building
review
branch
that
included
an
estimated
value
of
construction
of
3.2
billion
dollars
and
with
a
total
permit
fee
value
of
17
million
dollars.
C
Overall,
we
concluded
that
DBL
implemented
processes
to
consistently
and
accurately
assess,
building
permit
fees
substantially
in
compliance
with
most
of
the
relevant
sections
of
the
building
bylaw.
However,
we
found
some
significant
exceptions
related
to
processes
ministered
by
the
housing
review
branch
and
identified
areas
for
improvement
in
both
housing
review
and
building
review
branches.
C
G
Thank
you
Mike
and
good
morning,
members
of
the
auditor
general
committee,
as
Mike
noted,
the
audit
focused
on
the
two
branches
that
administered
building
permits
for
new
buildings
in
the
hrb.
We
found
that
over
10
years
ago,
the
branch
had
designed
a
simplified
process
for
assessing
fees
using
a
250
dollar
per
square
foot
multiplier.
To
substitute
for
the
value
of
the
proposed
work
provided
by
the
building
permit
applicant,
we
found
that
this
process
was
not
authorized
by
the
building
bylaw.
In
two
ways.
G
Staff
told
us
that
their
processes
for
utilizing
the
simplified
multiplier
was
to
receive
applications
and
use
the
higher
of
the
estimate
provided
by
the
applicant
or
the
value
of
the
250
dollar
multiplier
applied
against
the
net
floor
area.
In
the
application
we
sampled
64
of
the
1096
permits
in
scope
for
the
housing
review
branch
and
found
that
only
52
percent
of
the
applications
included
the
value
of
the
proposed
work
and
the
remaining
48
did
not.
G
Minor
errors
in
the
net
floor
area
used
for
the
calculation
resulted
in
some
less
significant
fee
over
collection,
and
we
were
told
that
an
amount
to
cover
a
typical
square
footage
for
detached
garages
was
built
into
the
250
dollar
multiplier.
However,
the
same
multiplier
was
used
for
projects
with
no
garages
next
slide.
Please.
G
G
G
G
Continuing
on
with
findings
related
to
our
second
recommendation,
the
audit
found
that
neither
Branch
had
written
procedures
or
guidance
for
building
permit
fee
assessment
processes.
Staff
told
us
that
they
received
informal
guidance
from
supervisors
and
colleagues
other
than
the
three
types
of
inconsistencies
found
in
hrb's
assessments
that
I
noted
earlier.
We
did
not
find
evidence
that
processes
described
by
management
and
staff
were
not
followed
next
slide.
Please.
G
The
audit
also
noted
that
the
building
bylaw
requires
applicants
to
State
a
value
of
the
proposed
work
that
includes
the
total
current
monetary
worth
of
all
proposed
materials,
construction
and
work
related
to
the
building.
The
monetary
worth
of
the
proposed
building
is
further
defined
in
the
bylaw.
However,
the
city's
building
permit
application
form
included
minimal
information
on
the
city's
expectations
of
what
to
include
in
the
value
of
the
proposed
work.
G
G
To
validate
whether
the
value
of
the
proposed
work
used
by
the
city
to
calculate
fees
was
reasonably
accurate
compared
to
using
the
Marshall
and
Swift
method
identified
in
the
building
bylaw,
we
completed
a
detailed
review
of
building
permit
applications
selected
from
both
branches
for
the
hrb.
We
found
that
the
value
of
the
proposed
work
used
to
assess
fees
was
reasonable.
The
multiplier
used
fell
within
a
reasonable
range
of
the
Marshall
and
Swift
assessment.
G
During
our
examination,
we
also
noticed
discrepancies
between
construction
estimates
submitted
to
the
city
for
the
same
project
at
the
rezoning
and
building
stages
or
buildings
that
required
Community
amenity
contributions
or
cacs
to
be
paid
to
the
city.
We
decided
not
to
expand
the
scope
of
this
audit
to
include
CICS
and
we
are
considering
undertaking
an
audit
that
will
examine
in
more
depth
the
inconsistencies
we
observed.
G
We
have
included
in
the
report
a
recommendation
that
the
building
review
Branch
should
review
the
value
of
the
proposed
work
submitted
for
projects
that
have
provided
estimates
during
rezoning
applications
to
determine
if
they
would
assist
in
assessing
the
reasonability
of
the
values
provided
in
building
permit
applications,
and
this
slide
concludes
the
presentation
of
findings.
The
auditor
general
has
the
last
slide.
C
Thank
you,
Lori.
There
are
two
recommendations
before
the
committee.
Essentially,
the
committee
received
the
report
and
endorsed
the
recommendations
and
that
it
recommended
Council
that
they
received
the
report
and
endorse
the
recommendations
as
well,
but
before
we
go
there,
perhaps
this
would
be
a
good
time
to
ask
DBL
for
comments.
Yeah.
H
It's
been
a
very
collaborative
process,
some
great
learnings
and
findings
for
DBL
and
just
want
to
thank
you
so
both
so
much
for
your
professionalism
and
and
your
collaboration
on
this
work.
I
just
wanted
to
provide
a
bit
of
History
just
so.
The
committee
is
aware,
when
Saul
Schweppes
and
I,
who
is
the
current
CBO,
is
here
with
me
today,
stepped
into
these
roles
about
a
year
and
a
half
ago.
This
is
an
area
that
we
acknowledged
was
we
needed
to
revisit.
H
So
the
opportunity
came
up
to
work
with
the
auditor
general
and
his
team.
We
welcomed
it
as
an
independent
review
of
our
program
to
get
better
insights
into
how
it
was
run
where
there
was
inefficiencies
and
where
we
needed
to
really
improve
the
program
over
the
years
since
I've
been
with
the
organization.
H
There
have
been
a
few
attempts
to
look
at
this
program
at
the
time
as
council
is
aware
and
previous
councils,
we
were
dealing
with
permitting
timeline
challenges,
so
the
Optics
of
increasing
the
cost
of
construction
or
revisiting
it
at
that
time
was
not
supported.
So
we
feel
like
we're
in
a
better
place,
and
this
is
a
real
opportunity
for
us
to
move
this
forward
and
take
a
deep
dive
into
into
the
program
and
operating
opportunities
to
improve
it.
H
H
There
is
significant
complexities
with
the
current
cost
valuation
program
and
the
tool
that
we've
used
for
many
many
years.
So
this
this
complexity
has
contributed
significantly
to
some
of
the
inconsistencies
identified,
so
we'll
be
exploring
other
acceptable
industry
tools
that
may
offer
simplified
cost
valuation
methodology.
H
A
D
Yeah
thanks
chair
and
thank
you
for
the
report
and
to
DBL
for
the
comments
I'm
directing
this
question
to
the
Ag
and
the
one
thing
that
really
struck
me
in
reading
this
report
was
that
it
focused
on
the
discrepancy
in
the
application
of
the
existing
standard,
big
Marshall
Swift,
as
defined
in
the
Vancouver
building
by
law.
D
But
there
was
reference
in
the
report
with
respects
to
other
cities
that
used
alternative
valuation
methods
and
some
commentary
I
believe
that
they
may
enable
potentially
greater
accuracy
and
I'm
paraphrasing
obviously
but
I'm
wondering
if
why
there
wasn't
any
commentary
with
respects
to
whether
or
not
the
method
that
the
city
of
Vancouver
itself
was
using
was
optimal
versus.
D
Are
we
applying
The
Chosen
method
that
we
have
that
we
are
currently
we've
currently
adopted
and
specified
in
the
building
by
law
and
or
you
might
tell
me
that
that's
out
of
scope
potentially
of
the
review
but
I'm
going
to
ask
the
question
in
terms
of
comments?
Because
are
we
trying
to
sort
of
line
up
if
you
will,
with
a
standard
that
perhaps
might
not
necessarily
be
optimal?
C
Thank
you
for
that
question.
Council
Kirby,
young
you'll
I'm
sure
understand
that
we
tread
very
carefully
when
it
comes
to
matters
of
policy.
It's
not
really
within
my
domain
to
challenge
policy
direction
that
this
Council
has
provided
to
City
staff,
as
evidenced
through
the
building
bylaw.
What
we
have
said,
though,
if
you
look
at
our
first
recommendation,
is
that
perhaps
this
would
be
a
really
good
idea
for
DBL
to
have
a
look
at
other
potential
options
for
how
this
could
be
calculated
and
to
come
forward
to
council
with
a
recommendation
for
improvement.
D
Okay,
in
the
sense
that
remember,
if
you
could
paraphrase
and
reflect
that
to
me
what
it
is
that
it's
challenging
to
be
Equitable
about
the
current
system,
that's
used
in
layman's
terms.
C
Well,
there
are
some
questions
as
to
whether
the
estimated
cost
is
in
fact
the
best
basis
on
which
to
determine
the
the
value
of
building
permit
fees
or
whether
perhaps
the
the
simplified
method
that
the
city
has
in
fact
been
using
a
set
square
foot
rate
is,
is
perhaps
a
more
reasonable
basis
and
and
indeed
far
more
streamlined
way
to
to
go
about
it.
D
And
that
is
it
could
one
extrapolate,
therefore,
that
if
we
used
a
set
rate
per
square
foot
that
as
we
are
attempting
as
a
goal
to
streamline
our
processes,
that
that
could
support
greater
efficiency
and
processing
of
applications?
If
we
just
adopt
a
simple
standard.
C
The
application
of
Marshall
and
Swift
is
a
fairly
labor-intensive
process
and
we
we
actually
used
it
as
part
of
our
our
detailed
testing
and
well
it's
not
something
that
that
we
do
on
a
routine
basis.
We
did
have
contractors
helping
us
with
that
who
do
this
on
a
professional
basis.
It
is
quite
a
bit
of
work
and
quite
a
bit
more
work
than
applying
a
set
rate
on
a
square
foot
basis.
So,
and
if
we're
trying
to
achieve
efficiency
and
we're
trying
to
achieve
fairness,
then
it
seems
that
that's
a
not
a
bad
thing.
C
D
Can
I
thanks
I
appreciate
that
and
can
I
with
the
time
I
have
can
I
ask
DBL
if
they'd
like
to
respond
to
that
on
the
potential
to
shift
evaluation,
others
to
something
that
would
be
more
streamlined
for
staff
and
for
our
applicants.
H
Yes,
Andrea
law,
GM
DBL,
and
thank
you
for
the
question
so
yeah
our
thoughts
exactly
Marshall
and
Swift
we've
acknowledged,
is
a
very,
very
complex
tool.
H
We
in
conversations
with
many
staff
who
have
been
part
of
this
audit
staff,
who
have
been
here
for
more
than
20
years,
who
still
who
work
closely
with
building
permit
fees,
who
still
don't
understand
the
methodology.
So
over
the
years
we've
tried
different,
extracted
different
tools
to
modify
and
simplify
the
process,
not
only
for
staff
but
for
our
applicants
as
well
and
I.
Think
yeah
I
think
definitely
a
flat
rate
is
something
we're
going
to
be
looking
at.
D
A
Thanks
Council
Kirby
young
I
have
a
couple
of
questions
that
I'll
jump
on
and
ask,
and
first
it's
of
of
the
auditor
general
and
I
just
want
to
reflect
that
this
is
our
first
real
audit
and
and
I'm
just
wondering
if
you
have
any
Reflections
on
how
this
process
was
any
room
for
streamlining
engagement.
Is
this
foreign
well.
C
I
think
it's
important
that,
while
we
present
findings
and
and
recommendations
that
there
be
equal
opportunity
to
respond
to
those.
So
that's
why
we
have,
in
our
report
a
section
that
we're
where
we
ask
for
a
response
from
the
auditor
department
and
and
if
possible,
to
provide
an
action
plan
for
addressing
the
recommendations.
C
But
there
may
come
a
time
when
perhaps
a
department
doesn't
agree
with
the
direction
that
that
we're
suggesting-
and
this
would
be
a
good
opportunity
for
us
to
have
that
conversation
in
the
room
and
and
allow
the
committee
members
here
to
to
discuss
it
and
come
to
a
decision
as
to
whether
to
support
our
recommendations
or
not
so.
The
process.
C
Here
of
of
me
and
my
team,
presenting
our
findings
and
recommendations
with
the
response
from
the
audited
Department
I
think,
is
a
very
healthy
way
for
us
to
proceed
and
and
one
that
I
hope
that
we
will
continue
to
do
for
for
all
of
our
reports.
Going
forward.
A
Great
thanks,
Mike
and
I
wonder
if
I
might
ask
the
same
question
of
Andrea
law,
just
how
the
how
the
process
was
for
you
and
your
team
and
and
I
also
just
want
to
take
a
moment
to
reflect
that.
I
appreciate
that
you,
you
and
your
team
have
inherited
a
an
onion's
worth
of
complex
layers
of
stuff
over
decades
and
really
appreciate
the
work
that
your
team's
been
doing
on
this
file
in
particular.
But
just
wondering
if
you
can
comment
on
on
how
the
the
audit
process
was
for
your
team.
H
Great
thanks
very
much
for
the
question
yeah.
So,
as
I
mentioned,
we
were
very
excited
when
we
heard
that
there
was
an
opportunity
to
to
participate
in
in
an
audit
and
put
this
forward
as
an
opportunity.
We
again
it's
something.
We've
been
looking
at
over
the
years.
Saul
and
I
have
been
in
different
roles
previously,
where
we've
acknowledged
this
is
a.
This
was
something
we
needed
to
tackle.
So
when
the
opportunity
came
up
and
we
realized
this
was
an
option-
we
were
very
excited.
H
So
from
the
very
beginning,
it's
been
a
very
collaborative
process
and
we've
been
had
every
member
of
our
team
has
been
willing
to
participate
and
happy
to
participate.
Knowing
that
it's
an
administrative
issue
that
we
need,
we
need
to
address.
Definitely,
but
it's
just
the
capacity
to
do
that
in
the
team
with
so
many
other
initiatives
going
on
and
Industry
was
quite
satisfied
with
the
methodology
we're
using
acknowledging
it's
non-compliant,
but
at
the
same
time
we
we
yeah.
We
were
happy
to
participate.
The
process
itself
has
been
very
collaborative.
H
A
That's
well
that's
fantastic
feedback.
Thank
you
very
much
appreciate
it.
Seeing
no
further
questions,
I'm
wondering
if
the
clerk
can
pull
up
that
slide,
and
maybe
we
can.
Oh
sorry
I'm.
My
apologies,
Archie
I,
see
you
put
your
hand
up
Archie.
F
Jones
Thank
You,
chair
I,
just
wanted
to
I
had
a
couple
comments.
I
in
terms
of
what
jumped
out
to
me
when
reading
the
report,
I
guess
was,
was
one
that
I
I
felt.
The
comments
were
very
good.
The
observations.
The
audit
findings
was
that
it's
really
important
that
the
process
isn't
is
in
compliance
and
authorized
by
the
building
bylaw.
F
So
I
I
I'm
glad
to
see
that
the
the
department
is
working
on
that
to
make
sure
that
that
the
that
is
the
case,
because
it
you
don't
want
people
paying
fees
that
aren't
consistent
with
what
the
bylaws
is
requiring
so
I
think
that's
important
and
the
second
one
was
the
written
procedures.
When
you
have
a
complex
process
which
I
think
you
have,
it's
really
important
to
have
the
instructions
so
that
staff
understand
how
to
apply
it
consistently
and
fairly,
and
so
that
was
the
the
importance
of
adding
some
written
procedures
on
I.
F
I
noticed
that
and
I
agree
with
councilor
Kirby
and
in
terms
of
the
simplification,
because
the
the
Marshall
and
Swift
process
is
fairly
complex
and
if,
if
there
is
a
simpler
way,
you
would
expedite
the
the
process
of
of
of
approving
and
also
assessing
and
also
Aid,
people
that
are
going
through
the
process
to
understand
a
little
bit
more
clearly
what
their
fees
are
going
to
be
so
I
think
I
think
it's
going
in
a
very
positive
direction
and
again
I
think,
based
on
my
discussions
of
the
auditor,
general
I
think
that
the
the
process
and
the
and
the
the
work
that
was
performed
was
really
very
thorough
and
very
of
Great
Value
to
the
to
the
city.
A
Thanks
Archie
I
see
I,
see
councilor
Montague
on
the
queue
that's
Vermont
to
you.
E
Thanks
chair
I'll,
be
super
brief,
I
Echo,
a
lot
of
the
things
that
were
said
by
my
colleagues
but
I
just
wanted
to
add
that
I'm
super
supportive
of
all
five
of
these
recommendations
in
the
report:
transparency,
Clarity,
fairness,
consistency
or
all
things
that
we're
striving
for
obviously,
I.
Think
one
of
the
things
that
we've
heard
from
over
and
over
and
over
again
from
the
Builders
and
and
developers
is
predictability
and
I.
E
Think
that's
one
of
the
things
that
that
these
five
recommendations
will
will
help
bring
to
to
the
table.
That's
all.
A
I
have
texture
thanks,
councilor
Montague.
Now
we
have
some
recommendations
from
the
auditor
general
for
the
committee
and
I'm
wondering
if
the
clerk
can
pull
that
screen
up.
We
can
have
recommendation
from
the
committee.
A
A
Next,
first
I'm,
assuming
everybody
else,
can
see
this:
it's
not
coming
up
on
the
live
feed
but
but
in
any
event,
I
was
moved
by
councilor,
Kirby,
young
and
all
in
favor,
say
yay.
I
A
None
opposed
that
is
moved
any
further
without
any
further
discussion.
That
concludes
item
two
on
the
agenda
is
right
and
the
next
item
on
the
agenda
and
thanks
clerks.
The
next
item
on
the
agenda
is
the
auditor
general
committee,
external
liaison
recruitment
and
I'd
now
like
to
invite
the
auditor
general
to
introduce
this
item.
C
Oh
thank
you
chair.
As
committee
members
know,
the
external
liaison
member
Karen
kielty
had
to
resign
from
the
committee
due
to
scheduling
conflicts.
C
I
spoke
to
Karen
and
thanked
her
very
much
for
her
service
to
the
city
and
her
willingness
to
participate
in
this
new
process,
but
unfortunately
she
has
yet
to
master
the
art
of
being
in
two
places
at
once.
I'm
still
trying
to
do
that
myself,
and
so
we
have
to
go
through
a
process
to
find
a
replacement
for
Karen
and
and
that's
a
process
that
has
led
through
the
the
clerk's
office
so
the
hence
the
the
memo
that
is
before
you
outlining
suggestions
for
how
we
should
proceed.
C
B
Thank
you,
chair
fry
I
would
just
simply
add
that
the
report
is
there
before
you.
We
can
put
the
recommendation
up
on
the
screen
and
the
while
we
identify
to
options
for
recruitment,
one
being
a
target
of
Recruitment
and
the
other
being
an
open
one.
We
do
recommend
in
this
case
that
it
be
a
targeted
recruitment
for
the
reason
that
the
terms
of
reference
indicate
that
candidates
require
accounting,
Public,
Finance
and
recent
management
experience
and
therefore
the
targeted.
B
The
targeted
approach
will
ensure
that
we
reach
out
to
potential
qualified
candidates
here
in
Vancouver
and
it'll
help
us
with
moving
this
forward
at
a
quick
Pace
to
fulfill
the
vacancy
and
I
would
also
identify
that
in
the
clerk's
Department
under
legislative
operations,
art
manager
of
Civic
agencies
recruits
for
all
specific
agencies
for
the
city.
So
we
would
work
through
that
already
established
plan.
If
there's
any
questions
myself
for
the
manager
of
Civic
agencies
would
be
happy
to
answer.
B
And
sure
fry
sorry
for
the
interruption,
I
should
have
noted
that
the
recommendation
b
we're
suggesting
that
you
have
a
committee
of
five
here
of
the
auditor
general
committee
that
we
look
for
perhaps
to
to
assist
with
that
recruitment
process.
And
then
we
could
report
back
to
the
full
auditor
general
committee
for
recommendation
from
that
working
committee.
B
So
a
we're
looking
for
the
we're
recommending
a
targeted
approach
and
B
we're
recommending
that
a
committee
of
perhaps
two
members
of
the
AGC
assist
us
with
the
recruitments
and
then
we
would
be
able
to
come
back
with
a
report
to
the
full
auditor
general
committee.
A
B
A
So
scanning
the
WebEx
for
an
indication
of
anybody
willing
to
volunteer
themselves
for
this
committee.
I
You
that's
okay,
I
I,
just
wondered
if
this
is
sort
of
thing
is
always
a
bit
more
Awkward
to
do
not
in
the
room
being
able
to
sort
of
read
the
room,
so
I'll
Trust
you
on
that,
but
I
I
was
trying
to
remember.
Who
was
if,
if
yourself
as
chair
and
counselor
Kirby
young
were
both
on
the
other
General
committee's
committee
before
when
the
office
was
getting
started
and
if
perhaps
the
two
of
you
would
make
sense,
then
to
be
on
this
committee.
A
A
D
Yeah
I
had
the
the
benefit
of
sitting
on
both
the
auditor
general
recruitment
committee
and
the
auditor
general
I
forgot
what
the
appropriate
the
terminology
was,
but
essentially
The
Establishment
committee
to
establish
the
office.
There
were
two
separate
committees
that
then
morphed
into
this
card:
one
and
the
current
membership
that
we
have
and
the
recruitment
committee
had.
Its
scope
was
to
recruit
Mike
McDonnell,
so
the
actual
auditor
general,
but
also
deal
with
things
like
terms
of
reference
for
the
external
advisory
members.
D
If
I
recall
correctly,
they
were
brought
forward
so
I
think
it's
a
function
that
can
be
handled
by
any
committee
that
is
interested
in
participating,
I
think
there's
a
fairly
clear
definition
of
what
skill
set
that
we're
looking
for.
I
would
also
note
that
now
we're
in
a
different
position
that
we
actually
have
our
order
to
General
on
board,
who
could
also
I
think
provide
some
valuable
input
into
this
process,
given
the
expertise.
D
I
know
put
out
to
the
committee
this
morning
here
in,
and
this
is
clarity
as
to
whether
or
not
the
auditor
general
would
be
invited
to
be
part
of
this
process,
or
it's
deemed
better
that
it
is
just
the
committee
members,
but
we
had
the
benefit
of
having
a
search
firm
that
was
assisting
us
with
hiring
the
general
and
some
pretty
detailed
kind
of
description
of
the
skill
sets
that
we
were
looking
for.
So
I
would
be
looking
to
try
to
understand
that
gap
before
we
affirm
a
recommendation
this
morning.
D
I
I'm,
sorry,
and
the
other
thing
I
would
also
say,
is
too
that
I
think
that
and
I'd
love
to
hear
from
our
current
external
advisory
member.
Who
is
actually
doing
this
to
get
your
perspective
because
you
were
on
the
other
side
of
that
process,
when
we
were
searching
for
experts
like
you
and
I,
certainly
think
that
the
external,
the
current
external
advisory
committee,
member
who's
actually
doing
the
job
should
also
be
part
of
this
and
I.
Don't
see
that
explicitly.
A
Okay,
so
I'm
going
to
invite
first,
the
auditor
general
and
then
Archie
Johnson,
to
comment.
C
Thank
you,
chair,
I'd,
be
more
than
happy
to
assist
the
committee
in
this
process
and
to
that
effect,
Archie
and
I
have
already
had
a
fairly
lengthy
conversation
about
potential
candidates
and
people
that
we
could
approach.
Assuming
that
this
was
the
direction
that
the
committee
wanted
to
pursue.
A
Thanks
Mike
Archie
any
comments.
F
Mm-Hmm,
yes,
thank
you,
chair,
I,
I,
agree
in
the
targeted
approach.
I
think
the
nature
of
this
role
is
is.
It
is
probably
some
skill
sets
that
it's,
it's
probably
better
to
be
going
after
certain
individuals,
if
they're
willing
and
wanting
to
be
part
of
the
the
group
rather
than
an
open,
an
open
call
so
I
support.
That
I
also
would
be
pleased
to
be
part
of
the
I
guess.
F
The
Search
Group
for
the
replacement
for
for
Karen
and
and
I
I
have
no
concern
with
Mike
being
part
of
that
as
well.
It's
often
difficult
if,
if
we're
the
oversight
opinion,
sometimes
it's
awkward
for
the
person
to
be
part
of
this
selection
of
who's
going
to
be
overseeing
yourself.
So
there
could
be
some
awkwardness
there,
but
I
would
I
would
think
we'd
be
able
to
overcome
that.
If
that's
the
wish
of
the
of
the
committee.
A
Thanks
Archie,
so
I've
I'm
sensing
that
the
best
path
forward
here
is
is
we
can
certainly
invite
input
from
the
auditor
general
and
that
Archie
is
volunteering
for
this
subcommittee.
I
will
also
volunteer
for
this
subcommittee
and
looking
for
one
more
from
our
committee
to
volunteer
for
this
subcommittee.
D
E
Yeah
sure
I'm
happy
to
obviously
I'm
the
new
guy
in
town
I.
Don't
bring
much
experience
to
this.
This
skill
that
may
be
needed,
but
I'm
happy
to
to
be
part
of
it.
A
That's
great
okay,
so
clerk
did
you
catch
that
this
subcommittee
will
be
councilor
Montague,
chair
Frye
and
our
external
liaison
Archie
Johnston
good
to
go
all
right
with
that
the
recommendation
a
b?
Is
somebody
prepared
to
move
it?
Oh
look
at
this.
We
have
a
special
guest,
Deputy
city
manager.
Karen
Levitt
is
on
the
thanks.
A
Just
nice
to
see
you
sorry.
Anybody.
A
You
councilor
Boyle,
all
in
favor
can.
D
D
B
A
Thank
you,
clerk
I,
believe
so
Council
Kirby
Young,
yes,.
A
You,
okay,
so
that
was
moved
by
councilor
Boyle,
all
in
favor
yay.
They
opposed
seeing
none.
That
concludes
item
three
on
the
agenda.
A
Final
item
on
today's
agenda
is
other
business
and
I
have
submitted
said
other
business
to
the
clerks
and
circulated
to
the
DL
list.
This
is
essentially
a
reflection
of
our
our
challenges
with
Quorum
at
this
committee
and
recognizing
that
we
we
run
a
pretty
pretty
bare
Quorum,
with
with
one
counselor
away
today.
Should
we
have
another
sick
or
whatever
we
would
be
unable
to
conduct
our
business
so
putting
some
recommendations
forward
for
the
clerk
to
report
back
on
the
two
discussed
items
there.
I
Thank
you,
counselor
fry
I,
see
counselor
Kirby
young
is
on
the
list,
I
wonder
if
the
clerks
can
advance
her.
D
D
Thank
you,
I
really
appreciate
councilor
fry
bringing
this
forward
and
I
think
it
is
good
to
have
some
resiliency
in
enabling
the
committee
to
continue
to
do
its
work.
I
think
I
was
reflecting
on
well.
Why
do
we
have
five
members
and
I
think
that
was
purposeful
in
the
sense
that
it
was
a
sufficiently
representative
number
of
counselors
versus
having
a
small
group
that
may
not
necessarily
reflect
be
sort
of
reflective
of
the
broader
body
and
I?
D
Think
that's
important
and
yet
I
really
appreciate
and
take
the
point
with
respect
to
being
able
to
carry
on
the
work
so
to
speak,
an
event
that
we
lose
somebody
so
in
reflecting
on
that
I
I
wasn't
as
enamored
by
the
idea
of
reducing
the
quorum
to
three,
because
considering
that
we
have
a
council
of
11,
that's
about
a
quarter
of
the
membership
and
I
think
versus
when
you
have
four
or
five
I
think
you're
getting
decisions
and
outcomes
that
are
more
reflective
of
the
body
as
a
whole.
D
So,
in
sort
of
taking
that
line
of
reasoning,
my
thought
was
I
would
prefer
to
see
us
take
the
rid
of
appointing
an
alternate
and
the
other
consideration
as
well.
Just
in
terms
of
efficiency
in
the
spirit
of
the
morning,
which
I
think
is
what
the
having
the
auto
General
is
about.
D
So
that
was
the
spirit
of
the
language
I
submitted,
which
now
reads
that
the
committee
direct
the
city
clerk
to
report
back
at
the
next
scheduled
AGC
meeting,
with
revised
terms
of
reference
and
recognition
of
the
current
High
Quorum
threshold
of
four
or
five
members
present
by
adding
an
alternate
Committee
Member
position.
For
the
committee's
endorsement
and
subsequent
recommendation
to
council.
So
I
put
that
out
for
the
committee's
deliberation.
I
Thank
you,
counselor
Kirby
young
counselor,
at
Clark.
We
need
to
move
to
an
amendment
to
the
amendment
queue.
B
In
front
of
me,
currently,
we
yes
I'm
on
chair
Vice,
chair
Boyle.
We
have
the
main
motion
and
we
have
the
amendment
from.
A
There,
but
no
problem
just
jumping
on
to
say
I'm
totally
comfortable
with
this
amendment
I
think
you
know
so
long
as
the
the
that
we
have
willing
alternate
to
to
participate.
I
think
that's
great
and
I
think
that's
a
better
Road
forward
so
that
we
do
have
some
breadth
of
voices
at
the
committee
table.
I
Great
thank
you
for
that
counselor
Frye.
Seeing
no
other
speakers
on
the
list,
I'll
ask
the
clerk
to
move
us
to
a
vote
on
the
amendment
to
the
motion.
I
Thank
you
clerks
and
now
seeing
no
one
on
the
list
will
move
to
a
vote
on
the
amended
motion.
I
Great
thank
you
and
I
will
pass
the
chair
back
to
you.
Chairfry.
A
Thanks
voice,
your
Boyle
okay.
That
concludes
our
last
item
on
the
agenda
and
we
will
move
to
adjourn
and
now
just
a
reminder.
We
do
have
an
in-camera
meeting
and
I
believe
we
have
to
take
a
slight
break
to
do
that
at
11
o'clock,
when
the
room
is
clear,
getting
a
nod
from
the
clerks,
so
we
will
reconvene
in
camera
at
11
o'clock,
but
in
the
meantime
we
need.
May
I
have
an
emotion
to
adjourn.