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From YouTube: Council Work Session Meeeting 06 20 2016 StdDef
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A
Afternoon,
ladies
and
gentlemen,
and
welcome
to
the
Monday
June
20th
2016
city
work
session.
At
this
time,
I
will
call
the
meeting
to
order
and
Kelly
you're
up
you're
the
guy
yeah.
We
got
a
fine
hour
and
a
half
that
you
can
spend
and
just
kind
of
talk
to
us
about
retail
and
what's
going
on
and
what
you're
seeing
then
there'll
be
a
lot
of
questions
for
you.
B
Well
good
afternoon,
I'm
Kelly
Cofer
with
the
retail,
coach
and
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
come
and
and
maybe
help
you
with
a
little
bit
of
retail
experience
of
mine.
I
was
just
telling
the
the
mayor
that
I
was
able
to
get
into
town
Saturday
afternoon.
So
I
have
had
a
good
opportunity
to
take
a
look,
sat
at
your
community
segments
you
into
what
we
call
retail
districts
as
well
as
look
at
some
of
your
development
sites.
So
I'm
calling
this
a
workshop
because
I
want
some
I
want
questions.
B
B
I
did
that
for
a
number
of
years,
until
one
of
my
clients
hired
me
to
move
into
their
office
and
handle
the
real
estate
site
selection
for
a
national
retailer,
that's
what
took
me
from
Dallas
to
to
Mississippi
met
a
girl,
married
child
and
the
rest
is
history
and
I've,
been
there,
probably
20
plus
years.
So
what
we
have
done
with
the
retail
coach
is
we've
taken
my
experiences
in
working
as
a
retail
broker,
but,
more
importantly,
working
as
a
site
selector
in
the
corporate
real
estate
department
of
a
national
retailer.
B
When
we
look
at
municipalities
like
I
came
in
early
and
looked
at
Watertown
is
I
tend
to
look
at
it
through
the
eyes
of
a
retailer.
What
does
a
retailer
see
when
they
come
into
your
market?
Retailers
are
all
about
making
money.
You
know,
unlike
industry,
that
is
certainly
pays
very,
very
close
attention
to
your
schools
and
and
a
lot
of
different
things.
B
Most
of
the
issues
that
face
municipalities
are
very
similar.
What
we
have
seen
post
recession
is
that
there's
very,
very
little
speculative
development
has
taken
place
in
the
last
eight
years
and
I
think
you
could
say
that's
the
same
situation
that
you're
facing
in
town.
So
what
a
lot
of
what
we
have
going
against
us
now
is
retailers
are
interested
in
expanding,
but
a
lot
of
markets.
What
I
would
consider
Watertown
is
a
middle
market,
not
a
large
market,
but
a
middle
market
is
the
lack
of
product
on
the
ground.
B
So
if
we're
able
to
get
interest
from
retailers
and
restaurants,
where
are
we
going
to
put
them,
there's
no
available
lease
space
of
size
that
would
fit
them.
So
what
they're
going
to
do
is
they're
going
to
come
in,
like
Hobby,
Lobby
and
they're
going
to
build
ground
up
or
we're
going
to
have
to
identify
developers
to
come
in
identify
property
and
develop
from
the
ground
up.
So
our
practice
is
really
shifted.
We
are
retail
recruiters,
but
what
is
shifted
in
the
last
eight
or
so
years
is
at
the
same
time
we're
recruiting
retail.
B
It's
pretty
simple:
if
you
do
what
you
say,
you're
going
to
do,
people
are
happy
with
you,
so
taking
that
and
moving
it
forward.
You
know
one
of
the
things
that
we
really
really
believe
in
is
that
you
have
to
have
good
community
development
before
you
can
have
good
economic
development
and
I
have
to
say
you
know
there
are
some
communities
we
work
in
that.
B
That
is
a
huge
challenge
that
there's
a
lot
of
community
development
issues
that
they
have
to
look
at
and
they
have
to
address
before
they're
going
to
have
that
strong
retail
economic
development.
That's
not
the
situation
in
your
community,
so
you
know
you've
got
that
going
for
you,
as
I
said
a
little
bit
earlier.
You
know
it's
really
key
to
developers,
as
well
as
to
retailers
that
their
investment
is
most
secure
from
a
site
selection.
B
B
I
mean
we're
all
guilty
of
it
at
some
level.
So
those
two
things
are
really
really
putting
a
lot
of
pressure
on
retailers.
What
we're
seeing
is,
you
know,
with
with
roughly
a
compounded
10%
increase
per
year,
we're
looking
at
well
over
300
billion
dollars
of
online
retail
sales,
and
that
is
really
scared,
a
lot
of
the
bricks
and
mortar
retailers.
B
You
know:
how
are
they
going
to
cope
with
that,
and
you
know
a
few
things
that
they're
doing
and
one
thing
that
they
started
doing
the
number
of
years
ago,
probably
four
to
five
years
ago,
is
really
looking
internally
at
how
they
are
building
their
structures.
They're
now
going
through
smaller
units.
B
Smaller
footprints,
which
you
know
is,
is
less
investment,
so
what
they're
doing
is
they're
carrying
those
items
that
really
fly
off
the
shelf
so
to
speak,
and
then
they're
sending
for
the
bigger
ticket
items
they're
sending
their
customers
online
for
next
day
delivery
Amazon
has
really
changed.
Our
Italian
is
continuing
to
change
retail,
we're
seeing
that
developers.
It's
really
having
an
impact
on
how
developers
are
building
their
properties
they're
having
to
take
into
consideration
that
that
Best
Buy,
you
know
ten
years
ago,
was
building
40
to
50,000
square
foot
units.
B
In
these
days,
markets
are
building
25,000.
You
know
I
know
that
you
had
an
office
max
that
was
here
in
the
mall
and
and
that
that
closed,
but
you
know
the
office
supply
stores,
they're,
looking
really
paring
back
there,
their
store
sizes
really
universally
national
brand
retailers
are
really
cutting
the
store
size
they're
having
more
of
their
goods
on
the
sales
floor
and
they're
having
less
of
their
things
in
the
stockroom.
So
that's
one
of
the
ways
they're
responding
in
developers
as
I
said,
are
changing
the
way
that
they're
developing
properties
no
longer.
B
You
know,
15
to
20
years
ago
everybody
wanted
a
power
center.
That's
where
you've
got
large
big
boxes
for
a
half
mile
down
the
road.
You
know
just
one
after
the
other.
What
we're
seeing
now
is
is
really
communities
looking
for
these
lifestyle
centers,
if
you've
ever
heard,
that
that
term
lifestyle
developments
and
that's
nothing
more
than
recreating
what
you
have
as
a
huge
asset
near
community
and
that's
the
the
uptown
historic
district.
You
know
that's
what
lifestyle
centers
do.
Is
they
sort
of
go
in
and
try
to
replicate
these
downtown
areas?
B
So
that
is
another
adjustment
that
the
developer
community
is
making,
and
you
know,
and
also
they're
becoming
destinations
for
greater
lengths
of
time.
They
want
shoppers
to
come
early
in
the
morning
and
leave
late
at
night.
So
they're,
including
entertainment,
venues,
a
number
of
different
things
and
there
are
properties
to
get
them
to
stay
there,
and
those
are
some
of
the
things
that
we
may
talk
about
going
forward
with
some
of
your
property,
your
new
development
property
and
opportunities.
B
You
know
where
they're
taking
be
shopping,
centers
those
middle-of-the-road
and
they're
turning
them
into
a
shopping
centers,
and
you
know
we're
seeing
that
quite
often-
and
you
know,
is
there
an
opportunity
in
your
market
for
something
like
this?
Is
the
Watertown
moth,
which
is
incredibly
well
located?
Is
there
a
longer
term
opportunity
to
turn
that
into
a
sort
of
a
Phase
two
redeveloped
asset
in
you
know
in
the
mall
I
was
able
to
walk
through
on
Saturday
night
and
talk
to
some
of
the
some
of
the
mall
merchants,
and
you
know
it's
it's.
B
The
ownership
is
being
responsive
to
their
needs
according
to
two
or
three
that
I
spoke
to.
But
again
it
is
an
incredibly
well
located
piece
of
real
estate,
and
then
you
ask
yourself,
as
a
community
leader,
are
we
getting
the
most
out
of
it,
and
certainly
with
some
of
the
newer
development
opportunities
you
have
isn't
going
to
put
pressure
on
an
older
mall.
B
A
B
B
A
lot
of
it
does
deals
with
pricey.
You
know
what
what
is,
what
is
the
land
availability
and
what
is
the
price
of
the
land?
You
know
many
times,
building
from
the
ground
up,
if
the,
if
there
is
a
market
price
on
the
land,
that's
acceptable
is,
is
less
costly
than
rebuilding
or
redeveloping
an
existing
asset.
So
I
think
you
know
always
the
retailer
had
prefer
to
go
into
a
new
location
than
they
had
an
existing
property.
B
So
you
know
that
is
what
they're
doing
in
many
situations.
You
know
you
can
take
that
from
a
Hobby
Lobby
or
you
can
take
that
all
the
way
down
to
an
O'reilly,
Auto
Parts,
who
you
know
15
years
ago,
was
having
developers
build
buildings
for
them
and
they
were
leasing
them
back
now.
Money
is
so
cheap,
they're,
basically
building
their
own
products.
B
C
B
Sir,
that
that
absolutely
does
come
in
play
if
you've
got
an
existing
building
and
that
you've
got
to
go
in
and
retrofit
an
existing
building.
There
is
an
advantage
of
that
because,
again,
retailers
look
at
the
competitive,
competitive
nature
of
the
business.
You
know
just
using
the
auto
auto
parts.
As
an
example
I
mean
you
know.
B
If,
if
if
Oh
Riley's
Auto
Parts
was
a
little
bit
concerned,
that
autozone
was
going
to
come
into
the
market
really
quick,
they
want
to
get
open,
get
the
traffic
patterns
down
of
the
customers
to
their
store
as
quickly
as
possible
before
a
competitor
would
come
and
open.
So
the
timing
issue
is
very,
very
important.
Yes,
sir,
it's
a
good
I.
C
B
B
You
know
entrances
of
the
anchors
that
cause
a
problem,
but
it's
really
going
in
and
converting
it
into
a
strip
center.
That's
a
very,
very
hot
redevelopment
process
right
now,
because
across
the
country
malls
that
were
built
in
the
70s
and
80s
and
even
in
the
early
nineties
are
having
the
same
issues
you
know,
for
example,
you
know
the
the
anchor
that
you
have
in
the
mall.
That's
on
the
back
side.
You
know
it's
really
hard
to
get
a
shopper
to
come,
go
on
the
back
side
of
the
mall.
B
B
You
know
one
of
the
things
that
we've
seen
happen
in
some
select
markets
is
converting
them
into
you
to
these
lifestyle
centers
that
I
talked
about
where
you
have,
instead
of
having
an
enclosed
shopping
interior
mall,
it's
it's
open
air,
they're,
converted
to
more
open-air
shopping.
It's
really
a
lot
of
pressure
on
a
mall
of
that
age
to
stay
productive
because
you're,
talking
about
you,
know
having
to
pay
for
those
interior
spaces
which
is
not
inexpensive
but
also
you're,
paying
for
their
pro
rata
share
of
HVAC
keeping
the
the
interior
cooled
or
heated.
B
B
Where
are
they
gonna
go
first
they're
going
to
go
to
existing
properties
in
your
market.
It
does
not
benefit
you
as
a
community
just
to
move
one
around,
but
what
it's
going
to
do
is
maybe
some
of
those
national
brands
that
are
inside
the
mall.
Now
Bed
Bath
Body,
Works
Clair's.
You
know
even
Dunham's.
That's
a
that's
an
anchor!
That's
going
to
be
a
discussion.
B
That's
going
to
be
held
with
those
level
of
tenants,
so
redevelopment
is,
is
really
you
want
to
be
an
important
factor,
I
believe
for
consideration
in
the
future,
with
with
the
mall
and
again
I
looked
up
and
did
some
research
on
the
on
the
company
that
owns
it
and
they
have
malls.
You
know
in
in
multiple
states
and
are
great
operators
from
what
I
understand.
B
D
B
Again,
my
answer
is
gonna
sort
of
echo.
What
I
mentioned
earlier
is
because
both
spouses
work
today,
the
the
the
desire
to
to
have
to
park
in
front
go
through
a
common
entrance
and
shop
at
the
smaller
retailers
on
the
inside
of
the
mall
is
just
not
as
as
prevalent,
because
they
don't
have
time
to
do
that.
People
would
rather
go
up
park
at
the
front
door,
go
in
and
chop
and
come
out
just
because
somebody
goes
into
JCPenney
or
to
Dunham's
doesn't
mean
that
they're
gonna
go
shop,
the
other
end
of
the
mall.
B
They
typically
will
come
back
out
to
their
car
drive
around
there
and
go
into
the
entrance
of
the
anchor
tenant
anchors.
You
know
for
a
mall,
that's
built
in
1977.
That
is
the
absolute
lifeblood
of
the
of
the
mall.
Is
you
know
if,
if,
if
and
again
we've
worked
in
a
number
of
communities,
that's
lost
an
anchor
tenant,
and
then
what
do
you
do
with
that?
Because
there's
very
few
anchor
type
retailers
in
2016
that
would
go
into
a
mall
JCPenney.
B
Many
of
them
now
are
going
into
strip
centers
they're,
taking
a
prominent
position
in
in
a
strip
strip
environment.
Again,
their
rent
is
less.
They
don't
have
to
pay
their
percentage
share
of
those
extra
costs
that
sometimes
are
more
than
what
their
their
annual
rent
is.
So
they
are
absolutely
what
drives
an
aging.
Mall
is
yankor
tenants,
its
Inc
it
you
know
and
again
I.
Don't
want
to
speak
for
the
owners
of
the
mall,
but
I
know
that
they
have
to
be
in
regular
discussion
with
them.
B
D
B
Sir,
that
that
is
absolutely
the
case,
is
you
know
and
that's
why
so
many
of
the
retailers
want
these
exterior
entrances
in
the
mall.
In
my
hometown
we
added
Barnes
and
Noble
to
the
mall,
and
they
absolutely
wanted
an
exterior
entrance.
They
would
not
go
inside
the
mall
they
had
to
have
an
exterior
entrance.
I
was
quite
shocked
at
your
Dunham's.
I
walked
through
their
store
that
you
have
to
go
through
the
mall
to
get
to
their
store.
B
Nine
point:
nine
out
of
ten
are
going
to
demand
that
they
have
the
outside
entrance
because
again
they're
looking
to
get
people
in
their
store
they're,
not
as
interested
to
see
if
they're
going
to
go
to
to
Katherine's
or
to
declares
inside
the
mall.
That's
why
this
deep
mauling
is
so
popular
now,
because
what
it
does
it
turns
every
one
of
those
anchors
into
strip
centre
tenants
with
their
exterior
your
interest.
Kelly.
E
B
B
The
lot
is
very
deep,
and
it's
not
as
wide
so
you
know
there
very
well
could
be
configurations
to
better
take
advantage
of
the
real
estate
dimensions
than
the
balling,
but
clearly
across
the
country,
and
our
working
D
mulling
is,
is
the
the
the
most
popular
way
of
redeveloping
aging
malls.
You
know
again
in
our
in
our
work
when
we
run
into
a
situation
like
this
one
of
the
first
groups
we
go
to
is
we
want
to
find
the
motivation
of
the
owners
of
the
mall.
B
You
know,
I
did
go
on
their
website,
you
know
they
have.
They
have
leasing
information,
they
have
brochures
for
lease,
you
know
that
it
and
they
have
adequate
signage
in
all
the
vacancies.
So
I'm
not
here
to
say
that
they're
not
giving
it
the
correct
attention,
but
what
is
their
motivation
as
owners?
Could
we
put
it
in
the
hands
of
another
owner
that
maybe
has
more
invested
in
the
Watertown
market
or
South
Dakota?
B
That
could
take
it
and
be
a
little
bit
more
creative
than
just
trying
to
lease
space
to
whoever
comes
up
and
wants
to
write
them
a
check
you
know
malls
are
really
no
different
than
strip
centers.
The
anchors
draw
the
people
in
and
that's
why
they're
you
know
you
put
anchors
on
each
end.
Is
you
want
to
promote
cross
shopping?
B
You
know
if
I'm
going
to
Dunham's
I'm
gonna
go
wherever
what
we're
seeing
in
what
we
have
seen
over
the
last
10
plus
years
is
because
both
spouses
work
and
they've
got
such
a
limited
time
to
shop.
They
do
not
like
having
to
park
and
maneuver
through
an
enclosed
mall
to
go
shop
somewhere
they'd
much
prefer
from
a
time
standpoint
to
go
to
a
strip
center
environment.
So.
F
B
You
know
some
mall,
some
malls
convert
to
alternative
uses
other
than
retail
on
the
inside.
That's
an
option,
meaning
are
converted
to
uses
totally
other
than
retail.
You
know
taking
advantage
of
the
of
the
of
the
of
the
structure
itself,
so
a
lot
of
it
again
goes
back
to
what
the
motivation
of
the
ownership
is.
You
know
it's.
B
It's
I
can't
speak
for
them
because
I
haven't
spoken
for
or
spoken
to
them,
but
my
experience
in
looking
at
a
situation
like
you
have
in
in
the
the
Watertown
mall
is,
as
the
developers
start
developing
new
product,
it's
going
to
put
even
more
pressure
on
the
mall
to
up
their
game
to
be
able
to
compete
or
their.
They
stand
the
risk
of
losing
their
retail
base
that
they
have.
You
know,
for
instance,
the
department
store.
B
That's
there,
they
put
a
false
facade
on
the
on
the
front
of
the
mall,
so
you
can
direct
people
in
the
front
door
to
go
to
their
anchor
because
people
aren't
driving
in
the
back.
So
that's
kind
of
a
trick,
a
lot,
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
developers
and
a
lot
of
retailers
use.
But
again
it
doesn't
solve
the
issue
of
consumers
in
2016
and
want
to
pull
up
to
the
front
door.
Go
in,
get
what
they
want
and
jump
back
in
the
car
and
go
back
home
even.
B
Well,
you
know
in
and
it's
funny
because
I'm
that
question
I
anticipated
that
question
and
I
was
in
Peoria
Illinois
and
I
travel
a
lot
and
if
you
travel
a
lot
you're
always
gonna
forget
something.
Well,
I
forgot
my
shoes,
so
I
had
a
presentation.
The
next
morning,
I
had
to
go
to
a
lifestyle
center
in
Peoria
in
a
driving
snowstorm
to
buy
a
pair
of
shoes.
I
was
the
only
person
other
than
people
that
worked
there.
B
That
was
that
was
shopping
there,
but
the
the
takeaway
is,
if
you
have
to
shop
or
you
want
to
shop.
That
is
that's
what
you
will
do.
I
would
look
at
your
mall
right
now
and
I.
Look
at
the
mix
of
retail.
That's
on
the
inside
there's
a
lot
there.
You
do
have
national
brands
represented.
You
have
many
small,
independent
top
retailers
in
there
and
you
have
a
number
of
vacancies
in
there
if
it
were
a
based
on
what
I
see
happening
with
the
ownership
and
their
marketing
efforts.
B
A
A
B
But
to
address
the
mall
and
the
other
properties
in
town
is
you
still
have
retailers
that
are
expanding,
I
mean
they
are
expanding
in
2016,
it's
just.
You
have
to
have
the
property
type
available
for
them,
and
and
what
we
are
seeing
as
well
as
as
I
mentioned,
is
many
of
these
retailers
are
what
we
call
brand
conscious.
They
want
to
go
into
a
property
that
would
support
their
brand
or
their
image.
B
If,
if
you
don't
have
those
level
of
properties
in
your
market,
then
they
will
pass
on
it,
and
you
know
very
well
could
be
something
that
has
happened
in
Watertown.
You
know
there
are
retailers
that
you
know
they
may
look
at
some
of
your
existing
properties
in
town
and
the
mall
being
one
of
them
and
saying
that
really
doesn't
meet
our
brand
doesn't
meet
our
image
that
we're
looking
for
they
want
to
higher
level
products.
B
You
just
listen
to
the
radio
or
TV
and
you're
gonna,
see
that
so
that
is
an
opportunity
and
will
be
an
opportunity
for
you
in
watertown.
Is
the
growth
of
some
of
these
national
and
what
we
would
call
mid
tier
franchises,
looking
to
expand
in
the
market
like
yours
and
we'll
talk
about
that
in
in
just
a
minute
and
one
of
the
things
that
we
typically
do?
Is
we
monitor
the
top
50
retail
and
restaurant
and
franchises
because
we
routinely
work
with
them
in
markets
across
the
country?
B
Another
thing
that
we're
seeing
that
really
dovetails
with
that
franchise
growth
is,
you
know
in
many
markets
across
the
country
and
I
think
you
have
a
strong
residential
market
here
in
in
Watertown.
As
you
know,
housing
appreciation
it
frees
up
capital
that
gives
these
interested
franchise
purchasers,
the
the
confidence
in
the
in
the
capital
to
really
invest
into
a
franchise
and
and
that's
something
that
we're
trying
to
take
advantage
of
in
our
client
communities.
B
One
of
the
things
that
yeah
a
visit
this
morning
in
Mandan,
North
Dakota
and
one
of
the
things
that
we
are
introducing
as
a
sort
of
a
new
service
is,
is
franchise
seminars.
When
we
find
interested
franchises
in
a
market,
we've
got
to
go
out
and
you
know
identify
the
entrepreneurs,
the
investors
that
would
be
interested
in
owning
a
franchise,
something
that
was
very,
very
important
to
Mandan
and
something
that
we're
probably
going
to
roll
out
in
the
fall
of
this
year.
Downtown's.
B
You
know
we
are
big
believers
that
you've
got
to
have
a
healthy
mix
of
Independence
and
national
brands,
and
so
many
communities
across
the
country
over
the
last
10
to
15
years
have
chased
these
big
box
developments
and
in
many
communities
at
the
expense
of
their
downtown's.
We
spend
a
great
deal
of
time,
redeveloping
downtown
working
with
the
independent,
independent
business
owners
as
well
as
I
just
mentioned
the
entrepreneurs.
But
you
know
again,
you
know
I
spend
a
lot
of
time
in
your
downtown
over
the
last.
B
You
know
on
Saturday
afternoon,
and
you
know
Kemp
in
in
you
know.
Second,
second
Avenue
and
I
believe
it's
Collins,
you
know
to
the
north
and
south.
You've
got
a
very
you've,
got
great
infrastructure
in
place.
County
Fair
Supermarket,
you
you've
got
a
great
infrastructure
in
place
in
your
downtown
market
and
again
the
key
is
being
able
to
get
the
consumers
that
come
here
out
on
highway,
212
to
downtown
and
fortunately,
for
you
with
First
Avenue
running
beside
the
the
Hobby
Lobby
and
then
you've
got
Collins.
You've
got
81
and
you've
got
20.
B
North
and
south
you've
got
great
feeder
roads
into
your
downtown,
which
ultimately
is
going
to
give
you
that
great
circulation
of
traffic
and
again
we
are
big
believers
that
you've
got
to
have
a
healthy
mix
of
independence.
Don't
put
all
of
your
eggs
in
one
basket.
That's
happened
historically
in
many
communities
across
the
country,
downtown
attention
and
revitalization.
It's
absolutely
key
to
you.
Having
that
overall,
healthy.
A
Community
you
know
Kelly,
you
mentioned
the
First
Avenue
coming
through
by
the
bank
there
and
coming
all
the
way
uptown
here
or
downtown,
and
we've
got
two-way
street
right
to
the
to
the
north
of
us
here.
But
yet
Kemp
Avenue
is
one
way
and
First
Avenue
is
one
way.
What
do
you
see
as
a
trend
on
one
ways
and
two-way
streets
which
one
to.
B
Sir
now
I
know
you
have
a
another
speaker
coming
after
me
that
specifically
deals
with
with
downtown
revitalization
I'd,
be
what
they
see,
but
rarely
do
I
run
across
two-way
streets.
It's
just
too
restrictive
and
you
know,
and
getting
traffic
in
and
out
you
know,
Kemp
Avenue
is
is
obviously
your.
You
know,
Main
Street
downtown
and
you
know
again,
I
felt
like
there
was
healthy
retail
off
of
Collins
as
well
as
a
second,
but
you
know
I
view
in
in
our
practice.
At
the
retail
coach
we
view
a
downtown.
B
G
B
A
A
B
B
H
H
Lifestyle
centers
try
to
replicate
downtown's
and
I'm
wondering
about
that
versus
actually
creating
the
lifestyle,
centers
downtown
versus
replicate
or
replace,
and
then
the
second
thing
was
I've
been
to
communities,
usually
larger
cities
Seattle
some
of
those
where
the
national
brands
have
chosen
to
locate
in
a
larger
building
in
the
downtown
area
and
I
would
like
to
know
if
you've
seen
that
trend
in
any
other
commit
mid
market
communities
where
you
know
you're
talking
about
the
smaller
footprint
or
the
smaller
square
foot
store,
and
you
know.
Obviously
we
are
looking
to
increase
that
mix.
H
B
Good
question
I
was
in
Seattle
just
a
couple
of
months
ago,
downtown
and-
and
really
you
know
that,
can
you
can
bring
that
back
here
and
get
really
excited
about
it?
But
you
know
the
the
truth
of
the
matter
in
a
middle
market
like
Watertown,
is
your
national,
larger
destination
top
retailers
they're
going
to
want
to
be
out
close
to
the
interchange
of
212
and
the
interstate?
B
That
is
just
the
fact
that
does
not
mean
that
you
can't
have
destination
retail
downtown
I
believe
you
do
have
a
large
furniture
store
that
that's
downtown
I
know
you
have
some
some
restaurants
that
that
have
demand,
but
we
are
seeing
a
renewed
interest
in
downtown
from
a
lot
of
retail
brands,
but
not
so
much
from
the
anchor
retailers
they're
still
going
to
be
to
where
they
can
reach
the
most
population
base.
The
easiest
and
that's
going
to
be
just
the
quick
on
and
off
of
I-29
and.
H
H
Because
they're
downtown
area
did
not
have
any
pharmacies
as
ours
does
not
what
the
last
one
closed
several
years
ago,
and
so
what
they
did
was
they
created
these
small
pocket
stores
with
the
basic
essentials
and
then
their
main
larger
stores
dropped
the
prescriptions
off
into
these
neighborhood
stores,
and
so
I
found
that
to
be
something
that
I
could
see
working
here,
we
already
have
a
big
Walgreens
out
on
the
212
and
81.
Are
there
any
other
stores
of
that
nature?
B
Right
well,
I
have
definitely
seen
it
with
with
the
drug
concepts
I've
seen
it
with
Best
Buy
they've
got
a
new
sort
of
downtown
pocket,
store
concept,
called
Best
Buy
Mobile
that
they're
doing
things
like
that.
It
may
be
premature
for
me
to
tell
you
exactly
what
your
opportunities
are,
because
those
type
things
they
will
depend
on
your
daytime
population,
downtown
your
your
your
employee
population,
that's
going
to
be
able
to
be
walkable
during
the
day
time
to
shop
as
well
as
your
residential
support.
B
Now,
the
residential
that
I've
looked
at
immediately
surrounding
downtown
appears
to
be
very,
very
strong,
so
there's
a
disposable
income
that
they
may
look
at
that
from
a
convenience
aspect,
but
those
are
potential
opportunities
that
could
be
explored
and
probably
should
be
explored.
In
addition
to
that,
there
are
a
lot
of
food
concepts
that
are
doing
the
same
thing
that
are
looking
to
capture
that
daytime
population,
that
worker
population
and
even
those
residential
consumers
that
are
in
very
close
proximity.
B
I
B
B
You
know,
how
could
we
help
a
community
like
yours
and
in
one
of
the
things
is
we
you
know
from
our
standpoint
is
because
we're
altima
League
owing
to
be
selling
you
to
the
retail
community,
the
restaurant
community
and
the
developer
community.
We
got
to
know
how
to
position
you.
You
know
we're
big
into
understanding
how
to
sell
our
clients-
and
you
know
yours
is
much
easier
than
many
of
the
communities
your
size
I
mean
you
have
amenities
in
your
market
of
communities,
two
or
three
times
a
population
that
you
have.
B
If
it
be,
you
know
the
walking
trails
if
it
be
the
the
reddleman
Art
Center,
the
the
zoo.
You
know
the
Aquatic
Park
that
was
absolutely
covered
up.
You
know
Saturday
afternoon,
you
have
amenities
of
you
know:
you've
got
the
school.
You've
got
amenities
of
communities
of
75
to
hundred
thousand
people.
That
needs
to
be
packaged
and
branded
and
sold
to
these
various
retailers,
restaurants
and
developers,
and
you
know,
you're
traveled.
You
understand
it's
a
little
bit
unique
for
a
sized
community.
B
You
know
of
your
size
to
have
those
assets,
I
mean
I've,
did
a
little
bit
of
research
and
and
certainly
the
investment
that
you
guys
made
over.
You
know
the
last
three
years
is
absolutely
key
to
differentiating
Watertown
from
other
communities
your
size
across
the
country,
because
that's
truly
what
you've
got
to
do
and
then
you've
got
to
be
able
to
package
yourself
and
control
that
conversation.
B
You
have
to
market
your
community
nationally,
and
you
know
we
have
an
industry,
commercial
database,
firm,
called
Luton
net
and
you
know
I
think
we
may
have
talked
about
a
property
or
two
in
Las
Vegas,
but
I
went
on
last
week
and
you
have
zero
proper
retail
properties
other
than
I
believe
there's
a
nursery
up
on
the
northwest
side
of
town
I.
Believe
it's
off
of
20!
That's
that's
four
CEL,
but
every
property
that
you
have
on
highway.
212
needs
to
be
on
Luton
that,
because
that
is
what
these
retailers
go
to.
B
You
need
that
national
exposure
to
this
retail
community
that
I'm
not
sure
you're
getting
now
you
have
the
assets,
the
quality
of
life.
I
life
assets
in
your
community
to
really
take
a
step
forward
with
a
higher
level
of
retail
and
I.
Do
think
that's
what
you're
going
to
see
over
time
out
on
out
on
212.
B
Our
approach
in
working
with
municipalities
like
yours
is
a
team
approach.
Just
like
I
came
early
to
take
a
look
around
I've
got
a
really
good
understanding
of
your
community
and
that's
what
I
do
I'm
involved
in
every
project
and
there's
a
team
approach
as
to
what
we
do.
Our
process
is
kind
of
an
A
to
Z
process.
We
kind
of
we
call
it
retail
360
it's
from
when
we
first
come
into
a
community.
B
What
we
see
looking
at
competing
communities,
you
know
how
do
you,
how
do
you
stack
up
against
Sioux
Falls,
which
is
a
hundred
miles
south
of
you
in
Fargo
population
125
or
so
that's
140
miles
north
of
you
sort
of
controlling
that
conversation?
The
way
I
would
sell.
You
is
if
you
locate
in
Watertown
you're,
basically
in
the
middle
of
two
major
markets,
that's
going
to
keep
retail
from
going
to
Brookings
because
you
can
cover
Brookings
and
other
markets
by
locating
in
Watertown.
B
So
you've
got
to
look
at
your
competitive
advantages
in
that
geographic
location
as
compared
to
two
major
markets.
It
is
to
your
advantage,
you
know
it's
it's
it's
key
for
you,
so
we
look
at
competing
communities
how
they
relate
to
you
and
my
question
in
looking
at
Fargo
and
then
looking
at
Sioux
Falls
is
what
retailers
are
in
those
two
communities
that
maybe
could
duplicate
in
Watertown
in
a
market
that
maybe
they're
not
covering
right
now
and,
as
I
mentioned
earlier,
a
lot
of
community.
A
lot
of
retailers
are
looking
at
smaller
footprints.
B
Now
that
opens
markets
like
yours
up
to
retailers
that
would
not
have
looked
at
you
before,
because
they're
coming
in
with
smaller
concepts.
So
knowing
what's
going
on
in
your
competing
markets
is,
is
really
key.
We
call
them
competitive
markets.
You
know,
we've
got
to
know
how
they
how
they
compete
with
you
from
an
economic
standpoint,
all
the
way
through
what
their
retail
bases
are.
You
know
you,
you
know,
you
know
who's
in
Brookings
and
you
know
who's
in
Aberdeen.
B
You
know
one
of
the
things
that
were
huge
on
and
it's
really,
the
foundation
of
who
you
are
as
a
community
is
that
retail
trade
area
you
know
Aberdeen
has
a
healthy
mix
of
retail.
We
know
who's
in
Brookings,
we
know
who's
in
in
Fargo
and
we
know
who's
in
Sioux
Falls.
So
what
are
the
boundaries
of
your
trade
area?
We've
got
to
know
what
retail
is
there
before.
We
can
really
determine
that,
and
then
we
got
to
know
how
you
stack
up
from
a
demographic
standpoint.
B
Retailers
want
as
many
people
in
the
retail
trade
area
as
possible,
but
it
needs
to
be
accurate
because
what
they're
looking
for
is
disposable
income.
If
they
locate
here
as
I
mentioned,
they
want
them
the
least
risky
locations
they
can
get
in
communities,
but
they
want
as
much
disposable
income
as
they
can
get.
B
So
you
ultimately
going
to
need
to
know
how
you
stack
up
from
a
demographic
and
a
disposable
income
standpoint
with
you're
competing
communities,
and
that's
certainly
something
that
we
have
to
fully
understand
before
we
can
control
this
conversation
in
marketing
you
to
to
the
retail
community
in
your
community.
You've
got
to
retail
districts
and
some
call
them
sub
markets.
You
know,
you've
got
the
major
water
town
market
with
with
all
of
this
retail,
but
retailers
that
are
typically
going
to
be
interested
in
highway.
212
are
different
than
the
ones
that
we
were
just
talking
about.
B
That
may
be
interested
in
your
your
uptown
area,
so
we've
got
to
and
look
at
what
are
your
opportunities
on
the
highway
212.
You
know
this
is
going
to
be
those
big
regional
retailers
that
will
go
there
and
have
quick
on/off
access
to
to
the
interstate.
It's
really
key
that
you
know
we.
We
develop
a
strategy.
Four
to
twelve,
that's
going
to
be
totally
unique
than
what's
in
your
your
downtown
district
and
again
these
are
just
loose
boundaries
that
I
that
I
drew
just
to
make.
This
point
that
you
know
the
opportunities
are
different.
B
You've
got
more
national
brand
opportunity
and
regional
brand
opportunity
out
on
to
twelve
you've
got
the
opportunity
for
some
larger,
more
destination,
oriented
retailers,
Gander
Mountain,
some
of
the
others
downtown.
You
have
some
national
brands
who
may
show
interest,
but
you
also,
this
is
going
to
be
the
focus
for
independent
business
growth
and
some
of
the
franchise
growth
that
I'd
mentioned
earlier.
So
our
approach
is
in
your
situation,
two
strategies,
one
for
downtown
and
then
one
for
highway.
212
and
I
mentioned
that
Dart
determining
the
trade
areas.
B
It's
called
a
heat
map,
and
this
is
for
Watertown
mall,
the
people
who
shop
in
Watertown
Mall,
who
are
on
their
cellphones
while
they
shop,
are
from
this
area.
It's
called
mobile
consumer
data.
We
purchase
this
data,
they
can
determine
with
just
almost
100%
accuracy
if
they're
shopping
in
the
mall
and
they're
on
their
cellular
phone.
We
can
tag
where
they
live,
and
this
is
a
heat
map.
Then
this
in
the
mall
I'm.
Sorry,
this
is
I.
B
Did
it
for
Menards
targeting
tractor
supply
I
mean
it
would
obviously
do
it
for
the
mall,
but
these
are
the
national
brands
that
you
have
tractor
supply,
Menards
and
and
target.
So
if
someone
was
on
their
phone
while
shopping
in
one
of
these
stores,
this
is
where
they're
coming
from
you're
getting
people
from
Aberdeen,
obviously
Brookings
some
from
Sioux
Falls.
So
this
is
a
regional
trade
area
that
you
have.
B
This
is
you
know,
kind
of
zooming
out
even
further
to
show
you
the
really
the
influence
of
I-29
on
your
retail
market
north
to
south
i29
stretches
your
market
to
where
you're
actually
getting
people
from
Fargo
that
will
exit
off
onto
12.
You
know
shop
at
Target,
tractor
supply
or
Menards
jump
back
on
and
go
where
they're
going
same
way
with
with
Sioux
Falls.
B
That's
a
good
question:
this
is
what
this
map
shows
the
absolute
numbers
of
it
and
we
can
show
it
for
various
time
slots
if
it
be
from
morning
shoppers
to
lunch
shoppers
to
afternoon
to
dinner
shoppers,
and-
and
we
can
also
do
it
on
the
weekends
as
well.
You
are
obviously
a
big
weekend
market
because
you
have
more
of
a
regional
draw,
but.
J
B
B
The
race
that
you
use
this
heat
map-
you
know
you're
gonna,
have
people
from
all
over
the
country
that
are
here
for
the
Redland
Arts
Center.
So
you
have
to
take
into
consideration
where
the
largest
concentration
of
these
shoppers
are
from
and
that's
what
we
call
a
primary
retail
trade
area.
Those
are
the
people
that
you're
gonna
get
on
a
weekly
basis,
not
those
that
are
so
remote
that
they
could
be
coming
here
for
Thanksgiving
or
Christmas
or
whatever.
But
that's
a
very
good
question.
Yes,
that.
J
J
B
B
You
know
and
still
not
reach
all
of
the
shoppers
that
you're
actually
getting
and
and
again
this
takes
into
consideration
just
like
in
this
map,
where
I
zoomed
out,
because
I
wanted
it
to
to
really
show
and
highlight
what
your
question
was.
I
mean
it
shows
that
there
are
shoppers
that
are
coming
from.
You
know
Minneapolis
here,
but
again
we
don't
use
that
in
what
we
determine
as
your
trade
area.
We
are
looking
at
the
most
conservative
approach
based
on
the
frequency
of
the
shopper
and
we
can
determine
the
frequency
of
that
shopper.
B
A
B
B
That's
what
the
retailer's
base
their
decision
on,
but
we
can
also
look
at
a
what
we
call
a
secondary
retail
trade
area,
which
is
that
larger
area
that
people
may
come
here
once
every
two
weeks
once
every
three
weeks,
if
the
if
a
retailer
is
on
the
fence
about
your
community
many
times
a
secondary
retail
trade
area,
has
has
been
very,
very
beneficial
for
determining
that.
So
this
is,
you
know.
B
Historically,
you
know
retailers
will
look
at
how
many
people
live
within
a
10
mile
radius
well
in
South
Dakota,
just
like
West
Texas
people
if
they
want
to
shop,
they've
got
to
drive
and
they
will
drive,
however
far
they
have
to
to
shop.
So
this
is
what
we
have
found
it's
much
more
reliable
than
the
radial,
as
well
as
the
the
drive
time,
because
again
this
is
a
clearer
picture.
B
B
You
can
do
that,
probably
not
as
as
a
an
asset
to
the
Arts
Center,
because
people
are
in
there
looking
at
art
they're,
not
on
their
cell
phones,
but
this
definitely
in
many
markets
that
we
work
in
has
application
for
the
tourism
crowd,
so
we're
looking
at
roughly
125
thousand
people.
This
is
part
of
your
story.
This
is
who
you
are
I
would
say
that
this
is
a
conservative
view
of
your
retail
trade
area.
B
If
we
talk
to
you
know,
if
we
did
this
same
profile
for
the
mall,
it's
going
we're
going
to
overlay
the
information
to
see
if
it
actually
broadens
the
trade
area.
Citizens
50
miles.
North
Brookings
is
roughly
50
miles
south,
and
if
you
look
at
this
that
that's
about
what
we
have
about
50
miles
north
and
54
miles
60
miles
south.
B
So
this
is
a
fair
representation
of
your
trade
area
and
again
you
want
it
to
be
as
large
as
possible,
but
you
also
want
it
to
be
accurate
because
you
lose
credibility
quickly
with
the
retailing
community.
If
you
try
to
overinflate
your
your
retail
trade
area,
so
this
demographic
profile,
this
disposable
income,
that's
depicted
this.
This
ethnicity
profile-
that's
represented
here,
all
becomes
who
you
are
as
a
community
in
the
retail
game.
B
It
has
buckston
done
a
study
for
you
in
the
past,
so
you're
familiar
with
with
the
psychographic
profiling
of
the
trade
area.
That's
where
you
know
we
find,
and
we
use
it
mostly
in
working
with
independents,
so
we
removed
the
risk
of
you
know
them
maybe
carrying
goods
or
services
that
absolutely
don't
fit.
The
consumer
I
was
in
a
community
a
few
weeks
back
having
a
workshop
with
downtown
merchants,
and
this
lady
said
her
business
was
not
doing
well
and
it
was
a
gift
shop
carrying
really
high-end
gifts.
Candles
picture
frames
those
type
things
well.
B
So
all
of
these
things
together
remove
the
risk
in
making
that
decision
to
locate
in
a
community
and
again
making
sure
that
their
decision
is
the
right
decision
and
in
working
with
many
independents,
sometimes
the
best
decision
is
them
not
opening
the
business
and
and
that's
part
of
providing
them.
This
information-
and
this
is
just
I-
won't
go
into
it,
but
this
is
just
a
the
top
segment
in
your
community,
not
the
trade
area,
but
your
community.
B
This
is,
this
is
who
you
are,
and
this
is
what
the
retailers
look
at
retailers
use,
psychographics
more
and
how
they
stock
the
shelves
of
their
stores,
then
using
it
in
making
the
decision
to
locate
in
their
community
or
not
not
all
Walmart's
or
our
merchandise
is
saying
they
merchandise
them
to
the
lifestyles
of
the
consumer.
Okay,.
B
I
didn't
know
that
you'd
even
had
a
relationship
with
him
until
he
mentioned
it,
but
no
we
our
model
is
totally
different
than
Buxton.
We
do
the
psychographic
profiling,
but
we
typically
use
it
more
with
independent
businesses
and
but
and
they
don't,
they
don't
work
in
with
with
the
independent
business
person.
B
So
one
of
the
things
that
we
do
is
you
know
we
do
this
as
a
means
of
determining
the
retailers
that
fit
your
community
is
we
do
a
gap,
analysis
and
I?
Don't
know
if
budgeting
did
one
for
you,
but
it's
based
on
your
trade
area.
Not
your
community
you've
got
to
determine
what
the
potential
purchasing
power
is
of
your
trade
area
and
you've
got
to
be
able
to
determine
what
the
opportunities
are
in
your
community.
B
How
many
dollars
are
leaving
your
community
and
shoe
store
sells
well,
if
you're
losing
in
this
example,
eighteen
million
dollars
was
leaving
this
community
in
Illinois
a
suburb
of
Chicago,
so
we
used
it
to
recruit,
dix,
champs
and
MC
sports
and
MC
sports
located
there.
This
alone
is
not
going
to
make
their
decision
for
them,
but
this
again
is
something
that
separates
your
community,
maybe
from
another
community.
That's
not
doing
this.
This
gets
the
attention
of
the
retailer
where
they
know
that
they're
coming
in
and
there
is
an
opportunity
to
gain
business.
B
You
know,
conversely,
if
you
had
ten
ten
shoes,
our
sporting
goods
stores
in
the
market,
then
you
wouldn't
need
a
11th,
so
you
only
want
to
address
those
categories
where
you're
losing
dollars
either
south
of
you
to
Sioux,
Falls
or
north
of
you
to
Fargo.
We've
got
to
quantify
that
and
again
you
know
once
you
determine
this.
The
key
for
you
and
I
mentioned
this
earlier
is
you've
got
to
identify
sites
where
these
retailers
can
locate,
and
that
is
your
challenge,
but
that's
your
opportunity.
B
You
know
you
suffer
from
the
lack
of
really
nice
what
we
would
call
Class,
A
or
hot
air
space.
That's
where
the
development
recruitment
comes
in.
You
know
we
talked
about
the
mall
a
little
bit
earlier.
You
know
one
of
the
things
that
we
would
do
and
again
find
out
what
there
find
out,
what
their
long
term
strategic
position
is
with
their
asset.
Are
they
looking
to
do
something
with
it?
Are
they
looking
to
sell
if
they
would
consider
selling?
B
This
would
be
a
major
focus
of
iris
because
it
is
one
of
those
properties
that
can
go
either
way
at
this
point,
and
you
need,
as
a
community
need
to
be
comfortable
that
the
ownership
and
again
you
may
know
this
information,
that
the
ownership
sees
it
as
a
long-term
old
asset
and
that
they're
making
the
investment
in
it
to
position
it
long-term
for
the
benefit
of
your
community.
Does
that
make
sense.
C
Kelly
got
just
a
quote:
Melia
really
wanting
to
point
anything
else.
Maybe,
but
you
had
said
that
if
our
needs
are
currently
being
met,
then
that
isn't
an
area
of
focus.
But
if
we
have
retailers
here
that
every
one
of
our
mid-level
communities
also
have
we're
meeting
more
than
needs
of
our
local
market,
whereas
if
we,
even
though
we
may
have
a
need
met,
if
we
were
to
get
something
that
made
us
stand
out
now,
unfortunately,
you
may
cannibalize
something
that's
already
here
in
doing
that.
B
Recruitment
strategy
is
to
get
those
unique
retailers
that
the
other
guys
don't
have
because
all
of
a
sudden
it
takes
that
hundred
and
twenty
five
thousand
people
in
your
trade
area,
and
it
makes
it
150
it
makes
it
160
whatever
it
ends
up
being
national
retailers
have
requirements
for
new
stores
each
of
them.
You
know
Walmart
Supercenter.
They
typically
look
for
sixty
to
seventy-five
thousand
people
in
a
trade
area
before
they
will
go
there.
When,
once
you
get
over
a
hundred,
that's
breaking
a
threshold.
B
That's
going
to
open
you
up
to
a
higher
level
of
retailer,
and
just
because
I
know
what
target
looks
for,
and
I
look
and
I
know
what
you
know.
Menards
looks
for
I
would
say
your
ultimate
trade
area
is
going
to
be
closer
to
150
than
it
is
to
125,
because
again,
I
know
what
they
look
for.
So
that
opens
you
up
and
I'm
getting
ahead
of
myself,
but
it's
a
good
question:
Kohl's
Pet,
Smart,
Bed,
Bath
and
Beyond.
It
opens
you
up
to
a
higher
tier
of
retailer
than
if
it
were
75,000
people.
B
So
you
know
we
focus
on
existing
properties
that
we
feel
like
we
can
add,
add
value
to,
and
if
that's
that's,
helping,
Lexington
international
lease
existing
properties
or
helping
them
determine
what
their
long-term
strategy
is.
We
have
to
also
look
and
again.
This
is
where
your
opportunities
are.
Is
we've
got
to
look
at
what
your
new
development
opportunities
are?
B
You
know,
and
some
of
the
things
that
you
know
this
is
a
couple
of
slides
that
I
can
that
I
added
for
redevelopment
and
these
these
I
believe
were
more
downtown
oriented
to
where
we
go
in
and
we
can
actually
show
an
existing
property
of
what
you
know
not
as
necessarily
what
they're
today.
But
what
can
be.
This
is
one
that's
really
applicable
to
you
and
I
believe
it's
I
believe
it's
just
on
in
the
northeast
quadrant
of
of
212
and
81.
You've
got
a
closed
gas
station
there.
B
You
can
see
what
you
know
the
graphic
can
show.
Maybe
you
know
of
what
can
be
done
with
an
asset
like
that,
so
you
know
from
a
creative
standpoint
from
a
redevelopment
standpoint,
but
you
know
in
in
looking
at
your
market
and
again
I
looked
at
this
from
listen
and
really
feel
good
about
it.
But
you
you
as
a
community,
you
need
to
know
and
part
of
what
we
would
do
is
highest
and
best
use
analysis
from
Broadway
all
the
way
to
the
interstate.
B
We
need
to
know
what's
going
on
in
that
court
or
are
there
properties
in
there
that
are
not
serving
their
highest
and
best
use
meaning?
What's
there
today
can
be
something
different
there
tomorrow
it
could
be
a
well
located
piece
of
property,
that's
not
generating
any
any
anything
positive
for
the
community
if
it
be
property,
tax
increases
sales
tax,
whatever
so
I
looked
in
Ischl
II
from
Broadway
to
twenty
nine.
B
After
being
here,
I
may
extend
it
west
a
little
bit
all
the
way
to
81
because
81,
you
know
you
have
Pizza
Ranch
up
there,
you've
got
the
you've
got
the
zoo,
so
you
have
some
traffic
going.
You
know
up
north
on
81.
You've
got
and
again
we
look
very
closely
at
automobile
dealerships.
You've
got
an
automobile
dealership
that
has
an
original
draw
there.
B
So
I
may
extend
it
west
to
281
to
really
look
at
each
property
in
that
corridor
in
determining
if
there
is
any
opportunities
there
for
redevelopment
or
new
development,
and
you
know
obviously
I
used
a
dated
aerial.
Google
has
not
updated
their
market,
but
are
there
aerials,
but
you
can
see
I
included
as
an
opportunity.
The
southwest
corner
of
212
and
in
fifth
Street
well,
once
I
got
here,
I
see
that
it's
already
been
developed.
You've
got
a
you
know,
a
Taco
Bell,
a
Hardee's,
and
you
know
a
small
strip
Center
in
a
Pizza
Hut.
B
Those
are
the
top
opportunities
I'm
talking
about
when
we're
talking
about
highest
and
best
use,
looking
at
very
well
located
properties
and
being
able
to
look
at
them
from
a
retailer's
perspective
or
arrest
of
the
person
perspective.
What
can
go
there,
you
know
so
I
was
I
was
glad
to
see
that
that
that
had
happened,
and
you
know
this
is
you
know
again
I'm
speaking
conceptually
here,
I,
don't
know
the
ownership
or
things
such
as
that,
but
I'm
looking
at
well
located
property
that
maybe
not
serving
their
highest
and
best
uses.
B
B
That
is
used
for
automobile
sales,
not
new
automobile
sales.
So
you
know
looking
at
that.
You
know
between
the
new
automobile
dealership
and
a
target
to
me.
That
is
a
prime
development
opportunity.
You've
got
probably
eighteen
to
twenty
thousand
cars
passing
there
a
day
you're
at
a
signalized
intersection
developers
and
retailers
had
prefer
to
be
at
a
signalized
intersection
because
it
slows
the
traffic
down.
I.
Look
at
things
like
this
and
go.
B
Is
this
really
an
opportunity
for
a
future
development
and
I
would
say
it
most
definitely
is,
and
then
this
is
something
that
we
we
visited
about
in
Lost's,
Las
Vegas
is
you
know
the
the
Hobby
Lobby
locating
they're
opening
in
2017,
and
then
this
large
tract
that
is
so
large.
It's
going
to
be
a
mixed-use,
not
all
retail,
but
some
level
of
mixed-use.
B
If,
if
there
could
be
for
the
larger
tracts,
some
type
of
conceptual
idea
or
conceptual
plan
of
how
that
property
can
be
developed,
it
benefits
you
as
a
city
in
the
long
run,
because
that
way
everything
is
not
developed.
Piecemeal,
they're,
not
just
selling
the
frontage
off
for
fast
food
or
a
casual
sit-down
restaurant
they're.
B
Looking
at
the
total
property
of
how
we
can
maximize
every
square
foot
of
it
and
not
just
jumping
into
the
first,
that's
something
that
we
do
with
ownerships
is
we
want
to
know
what
their
motivation
is
and,
if
there's
any
type
of
conceptual
overall
conceptual
plan
that
can
be
considered
for
these
large
tracts
of
land.
It
benefits
that
way.
You've
got
what
we
call
planned
development
instead
of
piecemeal
development
and
again
you
may
be
far
ahead
of
me.
B
But
that
is
that's
something
I
wanted
to
mention,
because
I
see
a
lot
of
property
in
my
travel
set,
the
property
owner
will
get
antsy
and
somebody
will
come
along
and
all
from
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
money
for
just
the
corner,
without
really
thinking
about
what
they're
going
to
do
with
the
rest
of
the
property
conceptually.
They
need
to
be
thinking
about
what
they're
going
to
do
with
the
total
property
and
then
work
from
there
that
way,
they
maximize
the
property
in
the
long
run
and
again
this
is
I
can
see.
B
This
has
already
happened.
You
know
my
question
was:
could
you
take
the
case
dealership
and
consolidate
them
with
property
on
the
on
the
other
side
of
of
29,
because
again,
Hobby
Lobby?
And
what
happens
you
know?
Adjacent
just
west
of
Hobby
Lobby
is
going
to
have
a
lot
of
value
to
that
real
estate.
It's
very
well
located.
B
So
those
are
the
type
things
that
we
look
for
when
we
look
for
adding
value
to
to
the
real
estate
is
looking
at
the
opportunities
and
the
highest
and
best
uses
of
the
properties
and
and
again
we
are
big
in
the
marketing.
We
are
packaging
and
marketing.
For
you,
we
told
about
the
brand,
so
we
do
a
number
of
different
marketing
packages
and
brand
identification
packages
for
our
clients.
This
is
one
where
we're
recruiting
a
CVS
Pharmacy
in
an
Oklahoma
community.
B
We
make
everything
very,
very
much
oriented
to
the
retailer
we're
trying
to
get
the
attention
of,
and
you
know
in
this
situation,
as
I
mentioned,
we
just
don't
call
a
retailer
and
say:
do
you
want
to
locate
in
Watertown?
We
give
them
various
options
for
them
to
consider
not
just
calling
them
and
saying.
Are
you
interested
in
the
market?
Here's
a
demographic
profile.
B
B
One
of
the
things
that
you
as
a
community
from
a
national
exposure
standpoint
needs
to
do
is
to
have
a
database
of
properties.
So
when
somebody's
at
an
airport,
somebody
is
in
a
hotel
room
if
they
want
to
find
out
more
information
on
your
community,
they
can
and
there's
a
place
for
them
to
go,
to
find
it
very,
very
important
for
you
to
make
it
easy
on
these
real
estate
site,
selectors
and
again
I
mentioned
that
we
do
the
same
thing
for
developers.
We've
got
to
identify
developers
in
your
situation.
B
That
would
be
interested
in
coming
in
looking
closely
at
some
of
these
available
properties,
just
using
212
as
an
example
to
see
if
they
can't
take
it
to
the
next
step.
What
we
do
through
the
retail
recruitment
is
we
find
Kohl's
Petco,
Bed
Bath
&
Beyond,
when
we
find
those
interested
retailers
in
you
know.
Well,
let
me
let
us
know
what
goes
on
from
a
development
standpoint.
We
get
those
prospects
and
then
we
have
that
conversation
with
a
developer
and
we
marry
the
two
together
and
what
it
does.
B
I
C
Somewhere
in
a
hotel
and
I'm
in
the
retail
development,
business
and
I
go
online.
What
am
I
searching
for
what
what
what
key
phrases
key
tools
do?
I
use.
You
know
I'm
looking
for
opportunities
right
sure.
So
how
do
you
get
Watertown
into
their
their
hands
when
they're
doing
that
work?
How
is
that
done
right.
B
If
you
were
to
do
it
internally
or
use
a
group
lock
is
we
would
just
like
this?
This
is
a
this
is
a
site
that
we
were
able
to
market
to
a
Costco
and
they're
ending
up
going
there
and
in
a
suburb
of
Dallas
Texas.
But
what
you
have
to
do
is
you
have
you
cannot
rely
on
them
to
call
you
same
way
with
retailers?
What
happens
is
and
I
was
the
site
selector.
B
If
I
were
through
your
community,
I
would
probably
be
through
five
or
six
other
communities
the
same
day,
then
I
go
back
to
the
hotel
and
I.
Do
my
research
because
they're
not
going
to
call
you
and
say:
would
you
show
me
around
they're,
looking
at
your
community
they're,
getting
a
feel
for
the
community
they're?
Looking
at
that
Community
Development
aspect
that
I
mentioned
first
thing
and
they
said
okay,
there's
a
lot
of
land
available.
B
This
is
a
possible,
maybe
so,
when
they
get
back
to
their
hotel
or
to
the
airport
they're
going
to
go
on
the
website
and
start
looking
for
specifics
and
that's
what
I
mention
is.
If
you
could
have
that
information,
if
it'd
be
information
on
a
site
information
on
your
community,
if
you
have
that
in
an
easy
to
find
place,
you're
better
off
the
same
way
with
developers,
developers
are
just
not
going
to
call
and
say:
hey:
do
you
have
any
land?
And
you
know
in
Watertown
you
have
to
reach
out
to
them
again.
B
If
it's
you
or
someone
else,
you've
got
to
reach
out
to
them
and
then
have
everything
that
they
need.
You
have
to
answer
anticipate
what
their
questions
are.
Just
like
these
things
that
I
mentioned
you
know
you've
got
to
show
them
that
there
is
a
true
opportunity
here
that
from
a
community
standpoint,
you're
very
Pro
development
and
that
you're
interested
in
getting
that
property
developed.
So.
C
B
Sir
okay,
before
we
go
out
and
do
any
research
or
any
outreach,
we
make
sure
our
clients
have
this
information
on
their
website,
because
when
they
go
there,
you
need
to
be
able
to
answer
their
questions,
because
if
you
don't
rarely
rarely
will
they
pick
up
the
phone
and
call
you
they're
going
to
the
next
community.
That's
trying
to
get
them.
It.
K
B
Right
and
by
the
way
you
have,
you
have
the
printout
of
all
of
this
information.
So
you
know
we
again
we're
seeing
attention
to
downtown's
that
we
haven't
seen
ever
because
again
we
deal
with
a
lot
of
national
brands,
and
national
brands
have
just
not
been
interested
in
downtown's.
They
want
the
regional
locations,
but
we're
starting
to
see
a
lot
of
the
franchises
more
interested
in
the
downtown
locations
and
in
communities.
B
Municipalities
are
there
they're
not
chasing
solely
the
big
boxes,
they're
trying
to
understand
that
both
can
and
should,
survive
together
and
and
that's
something
that
we
have
seen-
and
you
know
our
approach
to
downtown-
is
it's
totally
different
than
what
we
do
with
it
with
the
national
brands?
It's
very
educational
oriented
we've
got
to
and
again
this
is
just
a
you
know.
This
is
a
actually
a
client
community
aware
of
this.
The
the
business
hours
were
till
4:00
p.m.
but
they
put
a
note
on
the
door.
B
That
said,
you
know
we
close
the
door
at
350
means
don't
come
in.
You
know
you
only
have
ten
minutes
to
shop,
so
it's
very
education
oriented
really
showing
them
what
the
opportunities
are
in
the
downtown.
We
do
the
own
independent
retail
trade
area.
We
do
the
demographic,
profiling
and
and
all
of
those
different
things,
but
the
key
to
a
downtown
is
being
able
to
work
with
the
independent
merchants.
B
And
again,
we
have
found
in
really
one
of
the
first
groups
we
try
to
meet
with
when
we
come
into
a
market
on
a
new
project
is
with
the
independent
merchants
because
number
one.
We
want
them
to
know
that
we're
trying
to
grow
the
market
and
not
trying
to
compete
with
them
and
put
them
out
of
business,
and
that's
just
something
that
we
have
gained
through
16
years
of
really
understanding
the
independent
business
person's
mindset.
And
you
know
that
their
livelihood
is
in
that
that
storefront.
B
But
our
workshops
include
a
lot
of
education
on
determining
how
we
come
up
with
the
data
and
being
able
to
convince
them
and
show
them
opportunities
for
expanding
their
merchandise,
and
we
talked
about
a
gap
analysis.
If
there's
a
gap
in
shoe,
store
sales
or
jewelry
store
sells,
it
doesn't
always
mean
that
you
get
a
new
jewelry
store
retailer
downtown.
It
just
could
be
a
merchandise
expansion
into
those
sectors
that
show
opportunity
again
gives
them
a
different
level
of
consumer
that
may
be
coming
in
their
store.
B
A
A
B
Okay,
yes
right
and
our
typical
approach
is
that
we
are
in
a
community
a
minimum
of
three
times
just
because
again,
as
I
mentioned
earlier
and
I'm
I'm
ahead
of
the
game,
because
I
got
here
earlier
and
have
a
an
understanding
of
your
community,
is
that
we
have
to
know
you.
If
we're
gonna,
sell
you
right.
A
A
E
B
Right
I
just
know
it's
okay,
each
of
you
have
the
presentation.
You
have
my
card.
If
there's
any
questions
about
what
we
covered
or
what
we
didn't
cover,
I
mean
I'm,
a
phone
call
away
and
I
would
say
this.
If
you
choose
to
go
this
route
and
working
with
somebody,
we
would
certainly
welcome
the
opportunity
perfect.
J
A
G
G
Warby
Ward,
C
or
D
ward
award
a
Wow.
Well.
Thank
you
so
much
thank
you
for
inviting
me
and
thank
you.
Everybody
who
came
out.
Can
you
is
this?
The
only
screen,
so
you
all
are
gonna
get
a
real
side
slant
view
my
my
computer
kind
of
has
it
here.
If
you
can't
see
the
screen.
Thank
you.
My
name
is
Chuck
Marone
I'm
an
engineer
and
a
planner
with
an
organization
called
strong
towns.
G
Tonight
we're
gonna
talk
a
little
bit
about
this
presentation.
We
do
called
the
curbside
chat
I
years
ago,
back
in
2008,
as
we
were
going
through
that
crazy
election
season,
banks
were
failing,
housing
prices
were
dropping,
I
was
listening
to
our
national
dialogue
and
I
really
felt
that
none
of
the
things
I
thought
were
important
were
being
addressed.
I
was
hearing.
You
know
our
conversation
going
on.
I
thought.
You
know
that
none
of
this
seems
relevant
to
me
and
I
finally
got
so
frustrated.
G
I
said
you
know
what
I'm
I
might
be,
I
might
be
crazy,
I
might
be
the
only
one
seeing
this
I
might
just
be
nuts
I'm
gonna
start
to
write
and
just
share
these
thoughts
with
my
friends
and
see
what
they
think
and
so
I
started.
Writing
a
blog
and
I
started
writing
three
days
a
week,
I
promised
myself
I
would
discipline
myself
to
write
three
days
a
week
after
a
year,
I
was
astounded
by
the
number
of
people
that
were
reading
this.
G
G
We're
gonna,
give
you
three
years
of
startup
money
to
go
and
share
this
message
with
as
many
people
as
you
can
and
ever
since
then
that's
what
I've
been
doing.
So
when
someone
asked
me,
can
you
come
and
give
this
talk?
I
say:
yes,
let's
figure
out
how
to
make
it
happen,
and
so
I
got
the
invitation
tonight
and
I'm
here
to
to
talk
about
this
you're
gonna
get
in
an
updated
version
from
what
the
Blandin
foundation
got
three
years
ago.
Real
quick
about
us.
G
Our
mission
is
to
support
a
model
of
development
that
allows
our
cities,
towns
and
neighborhoods
to
grow
financially
strong
and
resilient.
We
still
do
the
blog,
but
now
we're
doing
three
or
four
posts
a
day.
Five
days
a
week,
we
do
a
podcast
two
days
a
week.
I'll
give
you
our
address
at
the
end,
if
you're
interested
in
our
stuff
there's
a
lot
of
content
there,
I
I
want
to
start
this
conversation
by
having
you
think
about
the
way
cities
were
built
thousands
of
years
ago.
G
If
we
think
about
the
way
they
were
built-
and
these
are
two
artist
renderings,
the
one
on
the
left
is
an
ancient
city
called
a
6000
BCE.
The
one
on
the
right,
of
course,
is
ancient
Rome.
If
we
think
about
these
cities,
they
were
built
around
the
dominant
transportation
technology
of
the
day.
That,
of
course,
being
your
two
feet.
Right
people
walked
everywhere,
they
went,
and
so
the
scale
of
the
buildings,
the
spacing
the
distance
between
different
types
of
things.
You
would
do
on
a
normal
day.
G
All
this
was
built
around
a
society
of
people
who
walked
can
fast
forward
thousands
of
years.
This
is
my
hometown.
I
come
from
a
little
town
of
Brainerd
Minnesota
14,000
people
a
couple
hours
north
of
Minneapolis
st.
Paul.
This
is
what
it
looked
like
back
in
1904
when
we
look
at
this
place,
people
would
arrive
by
stagecoach
they'd
arrive
by
train,
but
once
they
got
there,
they
walked
everywhere
they
went,
and
so
the
spacing
the
scale,
the
distance
between
different
types
of
things
you
on
a
normal
day.
G
This
is
very
similar
to
what
you
had
seen
for
thousands
and
thousands
of
years,
beginning
in
the
early
1900s
and
accelerating
after
World
War
two.
We
began
to
build
cities
around
a
different
transportation
technology
that,
of
course,
being
the
automobile.
We
came
up
with
different
building
types,
different
building
styles,
different
ways
of
arranging
things
on
the
landscape.
If
I
were
to
ask
people
tonight
to
describe
this,
they
would
generally
talk
about
it
in
terms
of
progress.
We
used
to
be
civilization
of
people
who
walked
everywhere.
G
We
built
cities
around
people
who
walked
now
we
drive
everywhere.
We
build
cities
around
people
who
drive
someday,
we
will
have
jet
cars,
we
will
build
cities
around
jet
cars
and
someday.
We
will
teleport
and
our
cities
will
look
completely
different
than
they
do
today.
This
is
a
narrative
of
progress.
It's
a
very
comforting
way
to
think
about
it
because
it
puts
us
on
this
continuum
of
things,
always
getting
better.
There's
no
another
way
to
look
at
this.
G
However,
that
isn't
quite
as
affirming
and
I
want
to
put
this
thought
in
the
back
of
your
mind
as
we
start
this
conversation
tonight,
when
we
look
at
ancient
earth,
we
have
to
understand
and
acknowledge
that
by
the
time
you
get
to
ancient
earth,
6,000
BC
people
had
been
experimenting
with
how
to
build
cities
for
a
long
long
time
they
tried
things.
What
worked
they
would
copy
and
expand
upon
what
didn't
work
people
died.
Civilizations
went
away
those
ideas,
weren't
copied
by
the
time
you
get
to
ancient
and
ancient
Rome.
G
You
have
a
style
and
a
mode
of
building
and
creating
places
developed
by
iterative,
trial
and
error
over
a
long
long
period
of
time,
and
by
the
time
you
get
to
my
hometown
in
the
early
1900s,
you
have
a
style
and
a
form,
a
building
that
is
essentially
universal.
Yes,
we
use
different
building,
you
know,
architecture,
we
use
different
building
materials,
but
the
style
the
spacing
the
layout.
The
design,
the
distance
between
different
types
of
things
is
very,
very
similar
with
cities
all
over
the
world,
latitudes
different
continents,
different
cultures.
G
When
we
look
at
this
style
of
development.
Well,
for
many
of
us,
this
is
the
way
things
have
always
been
done.
I
remember
our
early
days
as
an
engineer.
I
would
ask
a
question.
You
know
why
do
we
do
this?
Well,
this
is
the
way
it's
done
for
many
of
us.
This
seems
like
this
is
the
way
things
have
always
been
done.
It's
important
to
understand
that
we've
only
been
doing
this
a
very
short
period
of
time.
These
ideas,
weren't
developed
through
trial
and
error.
G
We
didn't
you
know
we
didn't
try
this
out
in
North
Dakota
for
a
couple
hundred
years
and
then
bring
it
here.
You
know
the
best
stuff
that
work.
We
just
reshaped
an
entire
continent
all
within
a
generation
all
around
these
new
sets
of
ideas,
the
ideas
weren't
developed
slowly
and
iteratively
over
time.
They
largely
came
from
European,
think
tanks
and
universities.
G
It's
important
for
us
to
understand,
as
we
start
this
conversation
tonight,
that
we're
living
in
one
of
the
greatest
experiments,
that's
ever
been
tried.
It's
a
big
cultural
experiment,
a
big
social
experiment,
a
big
development
experience
and
a
big
financial
experiment.
No
one
has
ever
tried
to
reshape
an
entire
continent
around
a
new
theory
of
building.
The
way
we
have
done
well,
we're
going
to
talk
about
tonight
are
some
of
the
financial
ramifications
of
this
things
that
might
not
have
been
apparent
when
people
first
started
out.
G
If
we
think
back
to
this
city
a
hundred
years
ago,
if
we
were
going
to
experience
here,
jobs,
growth,
economic
development,
those
were
going
to
be
byproducts
of
things
we
did
locally
if
we
were
gonna
have
a
job.
If
we
were
gonna
have
a
new
type
of
development.
That
was
going
to
be
a
byproduct
of
something
that
we
did
here
today,
and
this
is
really
a
byproduct
of
changes
made
in
the
Great
Depression
and
through
World
War.
Two
jobs,
growth
and
economic
development
are
a
shared
responsibility
between
the
state,
the
federal
government
and
local
governments.
G
Today
we
use
three
primary
mechanisms
to
finance
new
growth
and
development.
The
first
one
is
transfer
payments
between
governments.
The
idea
that
the
state,
the
federal
government
as
our
partner
will
come
in
with
grants
and
subsidies
and
low-interest
loans
and
different
types
of
things
to
allow
us
to
do
things
like
expand
sewer
systems
and
water
systems,
renovate
buildings
put
in
streets
and
other
types
of
improvements
that
create
growth
and
development.
The
second
is
transportation
spending.
G
The
idea
that
we
would
cumulatively
spend
are
collect
our
transportation
taxes
and
then
use
them
to
build
things
like
interstates,
frontage,
roads,
interchanges,
traffic
signals
and
the
like
these
create
jobs
while
they're
being
built
and
then
create
a
platform
where
we
can
have
additional
growth.
After
the
fact,
the
third
mechanism
is
debt,
and
while
public
debt
is
an
important
part
of
the
narrative,
if
you
go
back
to
the
early
1950s,
the
typical
city
and
the
u.s.
spent
3%
of
their
budget
on
debt
service
today,
that
is
16%
and
climbing.
G
So
public
sector
debt
is
an
important
part
of
this.
But
even
more
important
is
private
sector
debt,
the
ability
of
individuals
and
businesses
to
get
low-interest
loans
spread
out
over
a
long
term
with
very
little
money
down.
When
we
combine
these
mechanisms,
we
use
them
at
the
local
level
to
achieve
growth
and,
of
course,
for
governments
that
growth
is
good
because
it
gives
us
the
revenue
we
need
to
do
the
things
we
want
to
do.
This
is
kind
of
city
administration
101.
When
we're
growing,
we
have
more
money.
G
The
more
money
allows
us
to
do
the
things
that
we
want
to
do:
growth,
growth,
growth,
there's
some
really
powerful
incentives
at
play
here,
and
it's
important
that
we
understand
them
when
we
get
a
federal
grant
when
we
get
a
state
subsidy
of
some
type.
When
the
DoD
comes
in
with
a
project
in
our
community
or
when
the
private
sector
comes
in
with
leveraged
capital
as
local
governments
as
local
taxpayers,
we
generally
pay
a
very
small
portion
of
those
transactions.
There
might
be
an
up
sizing
of
a
pipe.
G
We
might
have
to
spend
some
staff
time
there
might
be
a
small
local
match,
but
in
the
millions
of
dollars
being
spent,
the
money
that
comes
out
of
our
pocket
upfront
is
usually
very
small.
The
benefit
that
we
get.
How
is
substantial
now
there's
this
new
tax
base?
There's
new
transactions
taking
place,
we
get
all
that
new
tax
revenue.
It
works
out
very
well.
For
us,
the
catch
is
that
as
part
of
these
transactions,
we
agree
to
take
on
the
long
term
responsibility
to
service
and
maintain
everything.
G
We
agree
that
we
will
provide
police
protection,
fire
protection,
school
bus,
every
all
the
services
that
are
needed.
We
agree
that
we
will
fix
that
road
that
street
that
sidewalk,
that
curb
that
pipe
that
pump
the
valves.
All
those
things
become
our
responsibility.
We
are,
in
a
sense,
exchanging
a
near-term
benefit
in
cash
for
a
long-term
liability,
there's
only
one
of
two
ways
that
this
strategy
makes
any
sense.
G
If
we
think
about
things
in
terms
of
ancient
Rome,
we
want
to
be
around
for
a
long
period
of
time
we're
not
just
investing
for
this
generation,
we're
investing
for
the
long
term.
There's
only
one
or
two
ways
that
this
strategy
makes
any
sense:
either
growth
is
going
to
continue
at
ever
accelerating
rates.
In
other
words,
every
time
we
run
into
a
financial
hiccup
we're
going
to
be
able
to
generate
that
much
more
new
growth.
G
We
can
take
that
cash
we
get
and
we
can
make
good
on
all
the
promises
we've
made
in
past
generations
or
the
pattern
of
development.
The
way
we
actually
go
about
laying
out
and
designing
our
cities
is
going
to
create
for
us
more
wealth,
more
cash
than
it's
going
to
generate
for
us
liabilities
over
the
long
term.
G
Now
everybody
in
this
room
understands
that
this
first
assumptions,
not
true
right
I
mean
it's
not
mathematically
possible,
but
even
if
it
were
possible,
we've
been
through
enough
of
this
in
our
economy,
where
we
know
we're
not
going
to
grow
at
accelerating
rates
forever.
Unfortunately,
this
second
assumption
is
also
not
true,
and
this
is
where,
for
a
brief
period
of
time,
I'm
going
to
get
a
little
bit
technical
on
you,
I
am
an
engineer.
So
I
have
to
do
a
little
bit
of
technical
stuff,
I
promise.
G
It
won't
be
painful
one
of
the
first
things
that
we
did
at
strong
towns
is
we
set
out
to
debunk
the
notion,
or
at
least
test
the
notion
and
wind
up
kind
of
debunking
it?
What
we've
come
to
call
the
quantum
theory
of
economic
development?
If
you
talk
to
engineers
planners
economic
development,
officials,
they'll
often
say
well,
okay,
this
transaction
might
not
make
any
financial
sense.
This
transaction
might
not
make
any
financial
sense.
G
This
transaction
might
not
make
any
financial
sense,
but
when
you
combine
them
all
all
of
a
sudden,
you
get
growth
and
development,
and
things
tend
to
work
out.
We've
called
this:
the
the
quantum
theory
of
economic
development,
because
if
you
can't
measure
it,
you
really
can't
know
what
we
said
is
that
there
are
parts
of
our
system
where
we
can
measure
it,
where
the
only
reason
for
them
existing
is
the
development
that
is
actually
there
and
for
the
most
part,
these
are
the
parts
of
our
systems.
That,
in
theory,
should
be
the
most
productive.
G
There
are
the
parts
that
are
kind
of
the
add-on
to
everything
else.
We're
doing.
This
is
a
prime
example.
This
is
a
development
on
a
dead-end
cul-de-sac.
There's
no
through
traffic,
there's
no
commercial
traffic,
it's
just
a
dead-end
called
the
sack
with
the
homes
along
it.
The
only
reason
that
this
cul-de-sac
exists
is
to
provide
access
for
the
homes
that
are
there
when
this
was
first
built
in
the
mid-1990s.
It
was
a
gravel
road.
The
city
went
out
and
had
it
paved
when
they
had
it
paved
the
city
paid
half
the
cost.
G
The
proper
interest
paid,
the
other
half
the
city
then
took
on
the
long
term
obligation
to
fix
and
maintain
it.
We
asked
the
question:
okay,
based
on
the
revenue
the
city
is
collecting
from
the
people
who
live
on
this
road,
the
only
people
who
use
it
in
any
significant
way.
How
long
is
it
going
to
take
the
city
to
recoup
the
half
they
just
spent
to
build
it?
The
answer
is
37
years
now
the
roadway
is
not
going
to
last
37
years
and
when
it
falls
apart,
it's
going
to
be
a
hundred
percent.
G
The
city's
responsibility
to
go
out
and
fix
these
property
owners
are
not
contributing
anywhere
near
the
amount
that
would
need
to
happen
in
order
for
that
to
financially
work
out.
Here
is
another
development,
this
one
again
a
closed
loop
with
a
dead-end
cul-de-sac.
There's
no
through
traffic
here,
there's
no
commercial
traffic
here.
This
is
just
residential
properties.
This
road
exists
solely
for
the
purpose
of
providing
access
to
these
parcels.
This
was
built
in
the
early
1980s
when
it
was
built.
G
The
developer
paid
to
put
the
road
in
paved
those
costs
were
then
rolled
over
into
the
sale
of
the
properties.
People
have
been
paying
for
that
on
their
mortgages
for
years,
they've
also
been
paying
their
taxes.
This
road
had
completely
fallen
apart.
The
city
went
out
to
fix
it.
The
cost
was
three
hundred
fifty
four
thousand
dollars.
We
asked
the
question:
okay,
based
on
the
revenue
the
city
is
collecting
from
the
people
within
this
development,
the
only
people
who
really
use
this
road
in
any
substantive
way.
G
How
long
is
it
going
to
take
them
to
recoup
what
they
just
spent
to
fix
it?
The
answer
seventy
nine
years
and
then
said:
okay,
let's
say
that
we
wanted
to
collect
enough
money
from
these
property
owners
between
now
and
the
time
the
road
fell
apart
to
actually
have
the
revenue
to
fix
it.
What
would
that
mean?
G
Now,
sometimes
people
say:
okay
Chuck
we
get
it.
We
know
we
lose
money
on
residential
property.
We
make
it
up
on
commercial
commercials,
our
cash
cow,
to
which
my
response
is
always
right
off
the
bat
I,
don't
know
any
corporation
that
loses
money
on
ninety
percent
of
what
it
does
and
tries
to
make
it
up
on
the
last
ten
percent
I,
don't
know
why
an
incorporated
municipality
would
adopt
that
as
a
financial
strategy.
G
Nonetheless,
we've
kind
of
convinced
ourselves
that
it
doesn't
really
matter
what
happens
in
our
residential
neighborhoods
as
long
as
we've
got
enough
commercial
commercials
where
we're
gonna
make
all
of
our
money.
This
is
a
Business
Park.
This
is
the
kind
of
build
it
and
they
will
come
investment
that
we
generally
like
to
make
to
create
jobs
and
growth,
an
economic
development.
This
one
was
built
in
the
mid
1990s.
G
It's
got
the
wide
industrial
sized
streets
sewer
water
storms
were
all
the
utilities.
Today.
This
is
completely
built
out.
Every
single
lot
is
occupied.
The
city
felt
this
was
so
successful
that
they
wanted
to
repeat
it,
build
the
exact
same
thing
right
next
door,
they're
just
going
to
mirror
it
and
build
the
exact
same
thing
with
the
exact
same
layout.
We
ask
the
question:
okay,
if
we
could
build
the
same
thing
for
the
same
price
and
get
the
same
investment,
would
this
be
a
good
project
in
today's
dollars?
G
It
would
cost
two
point:
1
million,
there's
six
point:
six
million
dollars
of
assessed
value
out
there
in
that
park
now
pause
for
a
second,
oh,
that's,
six
point:
six
million!
Four
of
those
Lots
are
a
church.
Two
of
the
Lots
belong
to
the
school
district.
It's
a
bus
maintenance
facility.
One
of
the
Lots
is
a
city
maintenance
garage.
One
of
the
Lots
is
a
County
maintenance
garage.
These
are
all
important
facilities
in
the
community
right.
We
we
need
churches,
we
need
schools,
we
need
public
buildings,
not
a
single
one
of
them.
G
Pay
a
dollar
in
taxes
to
the
city
of
the
remaining
Lots,
the
ones
that
theoretically,
would
be
taxpayers
every
single
one
was
either
sold
for
a
dollar
and
or
given
a
long-term
tax
subsidy
in
order
to
attract
them
to
move
into
the
park.
For
the
sake
of
our
analysis,
we
assumed
that,
in
this
new
expansion,
every
single
lot
would
be
built
upon
within
12
months
of
the
completion
of
the
project
by
a
full
taxpaying
non
subsidized
entity,
and
that
every
penny
of
new
revenue
would
go
to
retire.
That
bond.
G
If
that
were
the
case,
which
is
a
wildly
optimistic
scenario,
it
would
still
take
the
city
almost
three
decades,
29
years,
just
to
break
even
that's
29
years,
where
everybody
else's
taxes
would
need
to
go
up
to
pay
to
plow
the
snow
mow,
the
ditches
provide
police
and
fire
protection
and
every
other
service
that
would
be
needed
when
I
first
started
out
doing
this
presentation.
I
was
really
proud
of
the
work
we
had
done
and
I
would
go
through
and
I
would
give
like
about
15
of
these
examples.
G
I
will,
at
my
expense,
build
all
the
residential
properties
I'll
build
all
the
commercial
properties.
I
will
pay
to
put
in
to
your
standards,
all
the
necessary
utilities
and
streets
and
curbs
and
sidewalks
I'll.
Do
all
that.
The
only
thing
that
I'm
asking
as
a
developer
is
that
when
I
finish
all
this
building
that
you,
the
city,
you
the
public,
agree
to
take
over
the
long
term,
maintenance
and
responsibility
for
this.
What
would
we
say
we
say
fantastic
right,
you
you're
gonna
meet
all
of
our
rules.
You
don't
want
any
subsidies.
G
G
This
is
what
that
looks
like
in
year.
One
everything
is
brand
new
developer
paid
for
everything.
It
didn't
cost
us
a
dime.
The
money
comes
in,
we
take
that
portion
and
we
set
it
aside
in
year,
two
a
little
bit
more
money
comes
in
and
we
add
to
what
we
had
in
year.
One
and
year
three,
we
add
a
little
bit
more
in
each
year.
We
add
a
little
bit
more.
You
can
see
a
five
year
old,
pipe,
isn't
cost
you
anything
a
10
year.
Old
Street
doesn't
cost
you
anything
a
15
year.
G
Old
sidewalk
is
not
costing
you
anything,
and
so
we
get
out
a
couple
of
decades
and
all
we've
had
is
positive
cash
coming
in
we're
feeling
very,
very
rich.
We've
got
quite
a
bit
of
money
saved
up.
The
problem
is
when
we
get
to
in
this
example
year
25,
and
we
have
to
make
good
on
that
promise.
We
made
way
back
in
year
1.
What
we
find
is
that
the
cumulative
amount
of
money
is
insufficient
and
from
a
cash
flow
standpoint
we
run
far
into
the
negative
now
cities
are
not
one
development
right.
G
Cities
are
a
collection
of
developments,
they're
a
collection
of
neighborhoods.
So
let's
say
that
our
developer
comes
back
in
a
couple
years
later
and
says
you
know
that
development
worked
out
really
well
for
me,
worked
out
really
well
for
you.
I
would
like
to
do
a
similar-sized
development
and
every
other
year
from
this
point
forward.
The
developer
walks
in
the
door
with
a
similar-sized
proposal,
in
other
words
the
ideal
scenario
for
any
city,
nice,
steady,
continuous
growth,
and
we
take
that
money.
G
That's
coming
in
we
set
aside
and
we
save
it
for
the
day
when
we
have
to
make
good
on
all
these
promises
that
we're
making
here's.
What
that
looks
like
in
year,
1
you've
got
your
first
development
comes
online.
It
pays
in
the
entire
25
years
shown
here
in
year.
3,
you
add
a
second
one
and
your
five,
a
third
and
and
on
and
on
and
on-
and
you
can
see.
Not
only
are
you
having
growth
but
you're
having
growth
upon
growth
upon
growth,
it
your
cash
actually
starts
to
kind
of
accelerate
upwards.
G
You've
got
no
cost,
but
you've
got
a
lot
of
revenue
coming
in
you're
feeling
very,
very
wealthy,
and
when
you
get
to
year
25-
and
you
have
to
make
good
on
that
promise-
you
made
way
back
in
year-
1,
yes,
you've
got
to
spend
a
little
bit
of
money,
but
it's
not
a
big
deal
right.
You've
had
all
of
this
growth.
The
growth
creates
what
we
call
the
illusion
of
wealth
because,
as
we
all
intuitively
understand,
if
you
lose
money
on
every
transaction,
you
don't
make
it
up
in
volume.
G
G
G
Do
you
see
human
nature
here?
This
is
how
we're
wired.
This
is
why
people
smoke
right
smoke
and
then
I've
got
emphysema
right
this.
This
is
why
you'll
go
home
and
and
and
have
that
extra
bowl
of
ice
cream
and
watch
TV
instead
of
going
for
a
walk
right.
Oh
this
is
a
good
show.
This
is
good
ice
cream.
Oh
no
heart
disease
right!
G
We,
we
are
wired
as
humans
to
strongly
value
benefit
today
and
very
deeply
discount
pain
in
the
future.
This
is
how
we're
wired.
This
is
a
human
failing.
It's
not
an
individual.
Failing!
It's
it's
a
human
fan.
We
all!
We
all
share
this.
We're
all
built
this
way,
what
happened
to
the
civilization
thousands
of
years
ago
that
built
in
this
way.
G
G
It's
it's
it's
ironic,
because
we
we
look
back
with
deep
admiration
at
this
generation
of
people
who
said,
there's
nothing.
We
can't
overcome
right,
there's
no
dream!
That's
too
big,
there's
nothing!
We
can't
reach
if
we
try
and
there's
a
lot
to
admire
in
that
and
I
get
that
I
intuitively
I'm.
An
American
I
understand
that
that
gives
me
goose
bumps
too.
Yet,
when
we're
talking
about
things
like
the
way
we
build
our
places,
these
are
not
transactions
like
going
to
the
moon
right.
G
These
are
things
that
happen
over
multiple
generations
over
very
long
periods
of
time,
we're
very
like
slowly
developing
kind
of
things.
When
we
look
around
at
cities
today,
we
see
all
of
them
big
small,
in
between
struggling
financially
to
just
do
basic
basic
things.
Every
level
of
government
right
now
today
is
broke
right.
Every
level
of
government
right
now
today
has
more
liabilities
more
things.
They
promised
to
do
than
they
could
possibly
deliver
for
cities.
G
It's
not
a
function
of
us
not
being
smart
people,
it's
not
a
function
of
government
being
good
or
government
being
bad.
It's
a
function
of
the
fact
that
we
have
undertaken
a
huge
experiment
and
we're
living
right
now
way
out
in
this
end
of
it.
I
have
one
more
chart
to
show
you
it's
actually
more
depressing
than
this
one,
but
then
we're
gonna
be
done
with
charts
and
we're
gonna
go
on
to
two
happier
things
and
start
talking
about
how
we
can
react
and
start
to
deal
with
this.
G
But
we've
got
to
do
this
one
first,
because
this
one
is
is
very
important.
This
is
a
graph
of
debt.
Everybody
in
this
room
knows
the
conversation
that
we're
having
about
our
national
debt
right,
our
national
debt
19
trillion
dollars.
It's
an
enormous
sum
of
money.
It's
beyond
our
ability
to
fathom
right,
I,
had
seven
quarters
of
calculus
I'm,
not
going
to
pretend
that
I
can
fathom
what
a
trillion
dollars
is,
let
alone
19
of
them.
You
guys
had
that
Weekly
Reader
when
you
were
kids
right,
I
remember
when
I
was
in
fourth
grade.
G
We
had
that
Weekly
Reader
had
a
little
breakup
box.
It
said
if
you
took
the
national
debt
change
it
into
dollar
bills,
stack
them
on
top
of
each
other.
If
we
go
to
the
moon
and
back
like
23
times
or
something
like
that,
as
if
for
a
fourth
grader,
replacing
one
abstract
concept
with
another,
abstract
concept
would
clarify
things
right.
These
are
an
enormous
sums
of
money,
they're
beyond
our
ability
to
fathom
in
this
chart
here
the
the
black
line
or
I'm.
G
Sorry,
the
blue
line,
the
bottom
one
here,
that's
the
growth
in
our
national
debt.
That's
the
growth
in
that
unfathomable
number,
the
black
one
right
above
it.
That's
the
growth
in
our
GDP,
this
green
one,
the
one
that
soars
up
like
this.
That's
private
sector
debt,
that's
debt,
that
we
share.
That's
home,
mortgages,
commercial,
real
estate,
loans,
auto
loans,
credit
cards,
margin,
interest
accounts,
it's
a
private
sector
debt.
G
The
way
we
financed
the
first
generation
of
this
new
experimental
way
to
build
a
great
America
was
by
using
our
savings
and
by
reinvesting
that
illusion
of
wealth
back
into
creating
more
growth,
as
things
started,
to
become
more
difficult
as
the
liabilities
started
to
pile
up,
we
had
to
make
good
on
some
of
these
old
promises.
Things
started
to
slow
down.
G
It
took
us
a
while
to
figure
out
what
to
do
think,
mid
70s
or
early
80s
right,
but
we
eventually
shifted
from
an
economy
based
on
growth,
through
savings
and
investment
to
an
economy
based
on
growth
through
debt
accumulation
and
growth
through
debt
accumulation
became
such
an
important
part
of
our
economy
that,
as
we
crossed
over
into
the
third
generation
of
this
new
experimental
way
to
build,
we
actually
allowed
our
financial
system
to
become
predatory.
We
needed
the
growth
so
bad
that
we
said
things
like.
You
can't
afford
a
house.
Well
now
you
can.
G
You
can't
afford
a
down
payment?
Well,
you
don't
need
a
down
payment.
You
can
afford
a
small
house.
Well
here
you
can
now
afford
a
large
house.
We
needed
the
growth
so
badly
that
we
allowed
our
systems
to
prey
on
our
friends
and
neighbors.
Our
ability
to
continue
this
experiment
by
having
our
friends
and
neighbors
take
on
accelerating
levels
of
debt
is
just
simply
not
viable.
G
Obviously,
there's
some
huge
implications
to
all
this.
The
mechanisms
of
growth
that
we
become
accustomed
to
are
waning.
The
federal
government
the
state
government
are
vastly
over
committed.
They
do
not
have
anywhere
near
the
resources
to
bail
out
every
city
that
is
in
financial
trouble.
I
was
in
Detroit
two
weeks
ago.
Do
you
see
the
federal
government
running
in
to
save
Detroit?
No.
I
G
Why?
Because
it's
impossible,
there's
not
enough
money
in
this
country
to
save
one
Detroit,
let
alone
all
of
them
right.
The
do
T's
are
vastly
over
committed
I,
don't
have
the
numbers
on
South
Dakota
I,
don't
have
the
specific
numbers,
but
I
have
seen
where
your
d-o-t
is
now
converting
some
of
your
pave
roads
into
gravel.
Some
of
your
counties
are
doing
this
as
well.
Why?
Because
they
don't
have
the
money
to
maintain
them
in
a
national
level.
We
had
these
magical
ninety-five
five.
G
Ninety
ten
80/20
splits
and
we
funded
state
do
T's
based
on
the
number
of
Lane
miles.
I
had
so
we
went
to
the
state,
do
T's
for
decades
and
said.
If
you
build
a
new
highway,
we
will
pay
for
ninety
percent
of
it,
the
federal
government,
and
if
you
build
a
new
highway,
the
more
Lane
miles
you
have,
the
more
money
you'll
get
on
an
annual
basis
from
us.
So
what
did
we
do?
G
G
We
do
not
have
the
ability
to
take
on
accelerating
levels
of
debt,
even
if
we
didn't
have
our
largest
generations
either
in
you
know
in
or
nearing
retirement,
where
they're
not
taking
on
debt
or
already
overburdened
with
student
loans,
where
they're
not
taking
on
debt.
What
this
means
is
that
local
governments
are
going
to
be
forced
to
absorb
the
costs
of
our
development
pattern.
If
we
want
that
road
fixed,
we
have
to
pay
for
it.
If
we
want
that
pipe
repaired,
that
money
is
going
to
have
to
come
from
us.
G
This
can't
be
done
in
the
current
pattern
of
development
without
some
incredibly
large
tax
increases
and
or
some
devastatingly
large
cuts
in
services.
Now,
I
wasn't
invited
to
come
here
and
tell
you
what
you
already
know
right.
This
is
the
debate.
The
conversation
we're
having
at
every
level
of
government
everywhere
across
this
country.
How
big
is
a
tax
increase,
going
to
be
who's?
Gonna
pay?
For
that?
How
deep
is
the
service
cut
going
to
be,
and
where
is
that
going
to
be
felt?
G
So
how
do
we
do
this
and
I
had
to
very
early
on
I,
had
to
insert
this
slide,
because
I
would
get
to
the
end
of
the
presentation,
the
rest
of
the
the
rest
of
the
time
we're
going
to
talk
about
how
we
approach
things
differently.
I
would
get
to
the
end,
and
someone
would
always
stand
up
and
say:
Chuck
you've
really
made
me
angry
you've
come
here
tonight.
You
scare
the
heck
out
of
us,
but
you
didn't
tell
us
the
solution.
What
is
the
solution
to
these
problems?
G
It
took
me
a
while
to
actually
hear
what
was
being
asked,
because
I
was
hearing
words.
They
weren't
really
lining
up
with
what
the
intention
was.
It
took
me
a
while
to
figure
out
that
what
was
being
asked
as
a
solution
was
was
this:
what
can
someone
else
change
about
what
they're
doing
so
that
I
don't
have
to
change
anything
about
what
I'm
doing
we
we
we've
tried.
All
of
those
we've
tried
all
of
those
solutions
right.
We
sometimes
call
that
kicking
the
can
down
the
road
right.
We've
tried
all
those
at
strong
towns.
G
We
don't
talk
about
solutions.
In
fact,
I
will
tell
you.
There
is
no
solution
to
the
problems
that
I've
shown
you
tonight.
There
is
no
solution.
There
is
no
set
of
policies
that
will
solve
these
things.
What
we
talked
about
at
strong
towns
are
rational
responses.
How
do
thoughtful,
intelligent
people
working
together
within
a
community
look
at
this
complex
set
of
problems.
They
face
roll
up
their
sleeves
and
respond
as
thoughtful,
rational
people,
and
when
we
start
talking
about
rational
responses,
I
always
go
back
to
this
photo
here.
This
again
is
my
hometown.
G
Back
in
1904,
when
I
first
saw
this
photo,
I
was
just
blown
away.
I
was
just
astounded,
you
know,
as
a
planner
I
look
at
this
and
I
see
the
way
the
buildings
line
up
perfectly
the
way
they
they
frame.
The
public
realm
at
just
the
right,
greco-roman
ratios
right,
the
the
buildings
have
great
symmetry.
They
front
the
public
realm
in
the
perfect
way.
This
great
segmentation
of
space.
This
is
an
exquisitely
designed
Street.
G
How
many
boards
and
committees
did
you
have
to
go
to
in
the
city
to
get
approval
to
build
something,
how
much
federal
grants
to
they
get?
How
many
state
subsidies
did
they
receive?
How
many
miles
of
pipe
and
street
do
they
lay
in
order
to
attract
this
development?
How
many
engineers
and
planners
and
economic
development
advisers
do
they
have
on
staff?
How
much
tax
increment
financing
do
they
give
out?
We
can
go
through
the
litany
of
things
that
we've
convinced
ourselves
are
absolutely
essential
to
building
successful
places.
G
These
people
had
none
of
them
yet
look
at
what
they
built.
These
people
didn't
even
have
30
year
mortgages
right.
These
were
a
bunch
of
illiterate
Lumberjacks
in
the
middle
of
nowhere
and
they
built
a
fantastic
place.
How
do
they
do
this?
How
do
they
know
how
to
do
this?
It's
really
simple:
they
took
the
materials
they
had
on
hand
and
they
copied
the
style
that
they
knew
worked.
They
copied
what
people
had
done
before
them.
G
Here's
what
this
exact
same
street
looks
like
today,
yeah,
that's
the
proper
reaction,
yeah,
it's
a
wasteland
of
half
occupied
buildings
and
parking
lots,
and
if
you
want
to
see
in
one
snapshot,
why
our
cities
are
struggling
financially,
understand
that
there's
a
half
million
dollars
of
public
infrastructure
in
that
little
stretch
of
street,
where
where's
the
wealth
that's
going
to
maintain
that
generation
after
generation
after
generation
I
was
giving
a
lecture
at
a
university
in
Boise,
Idaho
and
I
showed
this
photo
and
a
hand.
Came
up
in
the
back.
G
Students
stood
up
said,
Chuck
I'm
from
Costa
Rica
Costa
Rica
is
a
very
poor
country.
We
can't
afford
to
build
the
way
that
you
build
when
we
build.
We
have
to
build
one
block
at
a
time
and
before
we
can
build
the
next
block,
we
have
to
make
sure
that
all
the
spaces
on
the
block
we
just
built
are
filled
in.
Otherwise
we
won't
be
able
to
afford
it.
We're
a
very
poor
country.
We
can't
afford
to
build
this
way.
G
We're
a
very
poor
country
now
too,
we
can't
afford
to
build
this
way
either
and
for
a
long
period
of
time
that
illusion
of
wealth
made
us
think
that
this
kind
of
thing
didn't
matter
that
we
could
just
have
blocks
and
blocks
and
blocks
of
unproductive
stuff.
We
could
run
pipe
all
over
the
place
and
roads
all
over
the
place
and
it
didn't
matter
what
wealth
was
produced.
G
We
felt
so
rich
that
we
didn't
stop
to
ask
some
basic
questions
about
what
is
the
return
on
our
investment,
but
we're
no
longer
a
rich
country,
or
we
can't
pretend
we're
a
rich
country.
These
things
do
matter
and
we
actually
have
to
start
asking
a
different
set
of
questions.
So
how
do
we
start
to
change
our
thinking?
The
very
first
thing
is:
we
need
to
get
rid
of
our
worst
habits.
G
Build
it
and
they
will
come
building
they
will
come,
is
a
brilliant
movie
plot.
It
is
a
terrible
economic
development
strategy.
We
are
in
what
we
call
the
desperation
phase
of
the
suburban
experiment.
If
you
are
a
city-
and
you
want
to
be
taken
seriously
today
in
the
economic
development
game,
what
do
you
have
to
do?
You
have
to
have
spent
millions
of
dollars
to
have
shovel
ready
sites?
You
have
to
have
lots
all
prepped
in
case
the
right
person
comes
trolling
through
town.
G
G
If
I
said
this
was
Watertown
when
that
shocked
you,
it
would
doesn't
look
like
your
place
at
all.
If
I
said,
Rapid
City
is
over
the
wrong
trees.
Yeah
too
many
trees.
If
I
said
Minneapolis,
could
you
buy
that
yeah
Chicago?
Maybe
if
the
trees
were
different
and
I
told
you,
it
was
San,
Francisco
or
maybe
Houston.
G
Yeah,
if
we,
if,
if
we
went
back
far
enough,
there's
no
photos,
but
if
we
went
back
far
enough,
you
know
Manhattan
started
just
like
this
right.
Every
city
that
was
ever
built
prior
to
our
new
experimental
way,
a
building
started
just
like
this
right,
a
little
a
few
pop-up
shacks
some
hopes
and
some
dreams
right.
We
can
go
back
far
enough.
I
mean
this
could
be
London
or
Paris
or
Rome
right.
They
all
started
just
like
this.
It's
gonna
be
Romulus
and
Remus
standing
out
here
right
on.
G
This
continent,
we
built
thousands
of
places
like
this
and
for
a
variety
of
complex
reasons,
reasons
that
defy
our
ability
to
predict
or
project
or
even
to
fully
understand.
After
the
fact,
a
lot
of
these
places
failed
when
a
place
like
this
fails.
What
happens?
Does
the
stock
market
crash?
Does
unemployment
skyrocket?
Do
we
have
to
have
an
emergency
session
of
Congress
to
bail
out
Wall
Street
banks
know
a
few
people
lose
a
little
bit
of
money
they
salvage
what
they
can
they
move
on
to
the
next
place.
These
are
little
bets.
G
We
built
thousands
of
these
across
this
country
and
for
a
variety
of
complex
reasons,
reasons
that
defy
our
ability
to
predict
or
project
or
even
fully
understand.
After
the
fact,
a
lot
of
these
places
were
successful
and
when
they
were
successful,
they
would
grow
in
a
very
simple
to
understand
way.
They
would
grow
incrementally
up
incrementally
out
and
become
incremental
e.
More
intense.
G
This
is
my
hometown.
This
is
Brainerd
Minnesota.
This
is
what
it
looked
like
in
1870
and
after
30
years
of
growing,
incrementally
up
incrementally
out
and
becoming
incrementally
more
intense.
These
little
pop-up
shacks
would
be
torn
down
and
replaced
by
these
buildings.
Here
that
shown
you
earlier
new
pop-up
shacks
were
built
out
on
the
edge
right,
as
the
city
was
growing
incrementally
out
and
after
another
40
years
of
growing,
incremental
II
up
incrementally
out
and
becoming
incrementally
more
intense.
These
three
and
four-story
wood
structures
would
be
replaced
with
buildings,
a
brick
and
granite.
G
We
don't
build
wealth
by
going
to
the
casino
and
putting
it
all
on
red.
The
way
we
build
wealth
is
by
making
small
investments
over
a
broad
area
over
a
long
period
of
time,
I'm
going
to
show
you
how
powerful
this
style
of
development
is.
These
are
two
identical
blocks
in
my
hometown,
the
one
on
the
Left
I've,
labeled
old
and
blighted
the
one
on
the
right,
I've,
labeled,
shiny
and
new.
G
If
you
look
at
them,
you'll
see
that
the
exact
same
size
they
have
the
exact
same
area,
the
exact
same
amount
of
public
infrastructure,
they're
on
the
same
thoroughfare,
the
same
neighborhood.
The
only
thing
different
about
them
is
the
style
of
development.
That's
on
them
that
old
and
blighted
block
looks
like
this
in
the
1920s,
as
my
city
was
growing
incremental
II,
the
next
increment
of
out
were
these
three
blocks.
So
what
you
are
looking
at
here
is
the
cheapest
commercial
building.
You
were
going
to
be
able
to
build
in
the
1920s.
G
This
was
their
equivalent
of
those
pop-up
shacks
and
had
things
continued
as
they
had
literally
for
thousands
of
years
around
the
world.
What
would
have
happened
over
time?
These
would
have
been
torn
down,
replaced
with
buildings
that
were
two
and
three
storey
or
they
would
have
been
added
on
to.
They
would
have
incrementally
grown
up
and
become
incrementally
more
intense,
but
that's
not
what
happened
right
after
these
were
built.
We
had
the
Depression,
we
had
World
War
two.
G
Then
we
had
a
completely
different
style
of
development
that
just
skipped
right
over
top
of
these
and
started
building
out
on
the
edge.
These
blocks
have
stagnated
for
90
years
two
blocks
over
used
to
look
just
like
this.
The
city
labeled
it
blight
got
it
torn
down,
and
now
we
have
the
new
drive-through
Taco
John's
everybody
was
thrilled.
With
this
we
got
rid
of
blight.
G
G
G
Here's
what
nobody
bothered
to
look
at
that
old,
blighted,
run-down
block
has
a
total
value
of
1.1
million
dollars
when
this
was
built
that
shiny
new
block,
the
same
sized
area,
the
same
amount
of
public
infrastructure
had
a
value
of
only
$800,000.
That
old
block
is
worth
42
percent.
More
understand
what
you're
looking
at
you're
looking
at
the
traditional
style,
the
development,
the
way
we
built
places
around
the
world
for
thousands
and
thousands
of
years,
you're,
looking
at
it
in
its
infancy
after
90
years
of
neglect,
and
it
still
outperforms
the
stuff.
G
We
build
brand-new
today
by
a
wide
margin,
and
we
all
know
the
trajectory
of
the
taco
joint
right
20
years
from
now
there'll
be
a
new
taco
join
up
the
road.
This
one
will
be
turned
into
a
used-car
lot.
Ten
years
later,
we'll
be
boarded
up,
they'll
be
selling
drugs
out
the
back
we'll
be
trying
to
get
a
grant
to
get
it
torn
down
right.
We've
all
been
around
long
enough
to
see
this
happen
in
fact,
two
years
subsequent
to
this
being
built,
here's
what
happened
to
the
property
values.
G
Now
I'm
gonna
ask
a
couple
questions
about
this.
That
I
think
are
very
cute
into
what
is
going
on
in
this
community
right
now.
Let's
look
at
these
two
blocks.
Let's
say
this
block
here:
we
don't
we
we
recognize
as
a
city
that
we're
insolvent.
We
recognize
that
we
have
more
commitments
than
we
have
cash,
and
so
we
don't
have
money
to
blow.
We
don't.
We
can't
go,
spend
a
ton
of
money
making
transformative
things.
We
have
to
make
small
little
investments.
I'm
gonna
ask
you
to
do
something:
that's
not
very
South,
Dakotan,
I'm
gonna.
G
Ask
you
to
speak
up
and
give
me
some
ideas,
but
I'm
gonna
ask
you
without
spending
a
lot
of
money
money
you
don't
have.
What
kind
of
things
would
you
do
on
this
block?
If
you
wanted
to
increase
the
wealth
increase,
the
value
of
these
properties
go
ahead.
Anybody
who
has
an
idea
just
speak
up
you
plant
some
flowers,
some
some
some
landscaping
out
here
would
be
really
great.
Flowers
would
add
a
lot
please.
You
know
what
a
little
bit
of
elbow
grease
and
some
paint
would
go
a
long
way
on
those
buildings.
Yep.
G
G
Sure
we
could,
we
could
try
to
help
just
clean
up
the
aesthetics.
A
little
bit
yeah
build
up
words
that
would
actually
require
a
change
in
the
code,
assuming
building
up
words
meant
adding
residential
right
now,
you
can't
have
residential
on
top,
even
though
that's
like
the
standard
building
form
that
cities
have
had
for
thousands
of
years.
We'd
have
to
change
the
code
to
allow
that,
but
that
would
be
something
we
could
easily
do
and
allow
that
please
somebody
else.
G
G
Do
you
see
what
we're
doing
here?
We
could
go
pick
20
people
off
the
street,
put
them
in
a
room
say
you
got
an
hour
brainstorm
as
many
ideas
as
you
can,
after
an
hour,
we
would
walk
out
of
there
with
50
things
we
could
go
out
and
try,
none
of
which
would
cost
a
whole
lot
of
money,
but
things
we
could
do
to
try
to
see.
If
we
could
get
this
block
moving
in
the
right
direction
again
same
question,
you
don't
have
any
money,
you
don't
have
money
to
throw
at
things.
G
G
Yeah,
so
drugs
out
the
back
all
right,
I
have
a
bunch
of
initials
behind
my
name
that
say:
I
know
something:
I
have
no
ideas.
I
have
no
ideas.
There's
there's
people
who
are
working
on
this.
They
sometime
call
it
sprawl.
Repair,
suburban,
retrofit
I.
Don't
really
like
those
terms
much,
but
when
you
look
at
their
renderings,
what
they
do
is
they
they
assume
they
are
millions
of
dollars
to
spend.
G
This
style
of
development
has
incredible
financial
upside
and
very
limited
financial
downside.
Well,
this
style
of
development
has
very
limited
financial
upside
and
a
downside
that
can
literally
go
negative.
This
is
the
same
kind
of
thing
we
see
on
the
edge
of
our
communities.
This
is
our
Mills
Fleet
Farm
Brainerd
is
the
home
of
mill
sweet
farm,
so
we
have
the
biggest
one
in
the
world
that
makes
us
special.
This
is
a
double
size,
big-box
store.
This
is
a
Mills,
auto
dealership
and
gas
station.
This
is
a
19
acre
piece
of
property.
G
G
When
we
look
at
that
mill
site
out
on
the
edge
of
town,
we
see
a
total
value
of
$600,000
per
acre.
This
is
a
huge
sum
of
money
when
the
mills
people
show
up
at
a
meeting.
We
just
stop
the
meeting
and
ask
them
you
know:
what
can
we
do
for
you?
This
is
the
most
valuable
single
piece
of
property,
the
entire
area.
But
when
we
look
at
this
19
acres,
it's
a
hundred
and
thirty-four
different
properties
configured
differently.
G
Let
me
ask
some
questions
about
this,
one.
How
much
money
did
we
spend
to
get
that
Mills
building?
Well,
the
d-o-t
spent
almost
200
million
on
a
bypass.
We
spent
another
30
million
to
run
sewer
and
water
out
to
this
spot
here,
I.
Actually,
when
I
worked
as
an
engineer
designed
this,
where
there
was
two
and
a
half
million
millions
more
from
the
county
on
this
on
the
frontage
road,
how
much
did
my
generation
spend
to
get
this
wealth
here?
G
This
is
not
this
is
this
is
wealth
that
my
great-great
grandparents
and
their
contemporaries
built
slowly
and
incrementally
over
time
and
then
bequeathed
to
us
as
an
endowment
of
sorts
for
the
community
right
we've
slowly
melt
it
down.
This
is
heretical
to
say
in
my
hometown,
but
I
can
say
it
here.
What
happens
when
Mills
goes
out
of
business?
What
happens
when
this
is
no
longer
the
highest
and
best
use
of
this
property?
What
comes
next
I
don't
know,
but
we've
all
seen
that
happen
right.
G
We've
all
seen
the
the
big
site
that
goes
down
and
then
whatever
comes
next,
is
quite
a
bit
lower
on
the
financial
pecking
order
right.
There's
a
hundred
and
thirty-four
different
properties
in
the
downtown.
What
happens
when
one
of
them
loses
a
tenant
goes
out
of
business
decides
to
relocate
to
Florida
retires.
G
What
happens
is
an
opportunity
for
someone
else
right:
we've
seen
buildings
in
the
downtown
go
from
a
retailer
to
an
accountants
office
to
a
coffee
shop
right.
What
happens
when,
in
all
of
our
eternal
wisdom,
we
figure
out
that
we,
we
have
zoned
this
property
and
we
have
too
much
office
and
not
enough
retail,
and
we
have
too
much
residential
and
not
enough
office.
We
have
too
much
retail
and
not
enough
seneschal.
Well,
each
of
these
properties
is
very
flexible,
very
adaptable.
It
can
be
easily
reconfigured.
G
We
don't
have
to
be
geniuses,
we
don't
have
to
know
the
market
absorption
rates
and
predict
30
years
in
the
future.
This
is
a
highly
adaptable
style
of
building.
There
is
reason
our
ancestors
built
this
way.
This
not
only
is
not
very
productive,
financially,
but
it's
incredibly
fragile
way
to
build
this
style
of
development
is
not
only
financially
really
potent
but
is
incredibly
adaptable
and
flexible.
This
is
a
pattern
we
see
over
and
over
and
over
again
around
the
country.
G
We've,
along
with
this
group,
called
urban
three
out
of
Asheville
North
Carolina
modeled,
hundreds
of
cities
around
this
country.
What
I'm
going
to
show
you
right
now,
if
you
think
of
a
farmer
going
out
and
spreading
seed
across
a
field,
the
parts
of
the
field
that
grow
up
the
tallest,
we
say
those
are
the
most
productive
parts
of
the
field,
the
parts
that
don't
grow
up
as
much
they're,
less
productive.
What
I'm
going
to
show
you
now
in
the
vertical
is
value
per
acre.
G
Where
are
the
most
productive
forms
of
development
in
the
community
and
I'm
I
start
with
Buffalo
New
York
Buffalo
New
York
is
a
city
that
was
hollowed
out
after
World
War
two.
They
have
lost
population
every
single
census
since
1940.
This
is
a
place
that
has
been
in
steep
decline
for
a
long
long
time.
G
If
you
go
to
downtown
Buffalo,
it
will
feel
very
hollowed
out
and
empty.
Yet
when
you
step
back
and
look
and
say
where
is
the
wealth
in
this
community?
Can
you
point
to
where
the
traditional
downtown
is
and
not
only
is
it
a
store
of
wealth
and
a
store
of
value,
but
it
massively
outperforms
everything
else
around
it?
We
see
this
in
cities
of
all
sizes.
Here's
a
smaller
city
in
upstate,
New
York
about
45,000.
We
see
the
same
exact
pattern.
G
This
is
a
small
little
town
where
I
live
Crosby
Minnesota
when
I
first
went
to
Crosby
Crosby
said
Chuck.
We've
got
some
great
stuff
going
on
out
here.
We've
got
some
great
stuff
going
on
up
here,
but
these
new
hoods
are
just
terrible.
We've
got
to
figure
out
how
to
get
some
of
this
stuff.
Torn
down
and
rebuilt
in
a
style
that
actually
works,
and
then
we
showed
them
where
all
their
wealth
is
in
those
poor
neighborhoods
in
the
neighborhoods,
where
all
the
poor
people
live.
G
This
is
a
pattern
we
see
everywhere
around
the
country,
every
city
we've
ever
modeled,
every
city
we've
ever
looked
at
when
we
have
building
patterns
based
around
slow,
incremental
development
scaled
to
humans.
We
see
very,
very
high
returns
on
our
investment
when
we
go
to
the
other
end
of
the
spectrum,
large-scale
development
that
is
not
scaled
to
people,
we
see
the
investment
levels
fall
way
off.
This
is
a
map
of
Lafayette,
Louisiana
and
I'm.
Gonna
apologize
to
everybody,
who's
red-green
color
blind
I
will
walk
you
through
this.
This
is
a
map
of
Lafayette.
G
We
did
the
most
extensive
study
ever
done
in
terms
of
return
on
investment
for
the
city
of
Lafayette.
They
came
to
us
and
said
we
don't
have
any
money
to
do
anything
and
we're
not
sure
why,
because
we've
had
a
lot
of
growth,
it
was
actually
the
mayor
he
said,
I'm
getting
pressured
to
raise
taxes
and
I
think
raising
taxes
would
solve
the
problem.
For
my
term,
but
would
not
actually
solve
the
problem,
I
want
you
to
help
me
figure
out
what
the
problem
is.
G
So
we
went
out
and
we
analyzed
the
entire
city,
every
stream
of
revenue.
They
had
property
tax
sales,
tax
fees,
everything
then
we
looked
at
every
expense
they
had
and
what
we
did
is
we
allocated
them
by
parcel
so
everywhere,
where
you
see
a
parcel
in
red
and
for
those
of
you
are
red-green
color
blind
I'm
going
to
point
where
these
are
every
place.
You
see,
a
parcel
in
red
is
a
parcel
where
the
city
is
spending
or
committed
to
spend
more
money
than
they
are
going
to
bring
in
and
every
place
you
see.
G
Green
is
a
place
where
the
city
is
going
to
bring
in
more
money
than
they're
committed
or
are
spending
I
will
walk
you
through
this.
This
spike
right
here
is
a
green
spike.
That's
the
most
valuable
area
in
the
city.
It's
a
development
called
River
Ranch
is
a
new
urbanist
development.
What
that
means
is
that
is
it
as
a
development
with
traditional
design
patterns
and
modern
financing,
so
tight
narrow
streets,
tight
buildings,
but
all
built
at
the
same
time
with
modern
financing.
It's
an
open
question
how
well
this
will
do
in
the
future.
G
All
the
roofs
will
fail.
At
the
same
time,
all
the
sidewalks
will
fail.
At
the
same
time,
everything
is
going
to
be
needed
to
be
maintained
at
the
same
time
in
the
future,
but
for
right
now
it's
absolutely
killing
it.
It's
the
most
productive
place.
I
am
the
city.
This
green
area
right
here,
that's
their
core
downtown.
Now
Lafayette
would
kill
to
have
you
are
downtown.
They
really
would
they're
downtown
nos,
not
nearly
as
nice
is
a
college
town.
G
There's
some
dive
bars
a
couple
kind
of
restaurants,
a
lot
of
underutilized
property,
but
yet
financially
they're
just
killing
it
there's
a
there's
an
arc
here
of
green
kind
of
a
Crescent
of
green
right
here
those
are
the
poor
neighborhoods.
Those
are
the
neighborhoods.
When
we
were
looking
at
getting
an
air
B&B
for
a
week
to
stay,
the
city
staff
said
don't
go
over
there.
That's
where
the
murders,
the
burglaries,
all
the
bad
stuff
happens.
These
are
the
these.
Are
the
poorest
neighborhoods.
What's
this
stuff
out
here,
this
is
all
red
out
here.
G
This
is
all
red.
Here
you
got
your
mall,
the
big-box
stores,
the
strip
malls,
the
drive-through
restaurants.
These
are
the
subdivisions
with
the
three
and
four
car
attached
garages.
That's
what
this
stuff
is
out
here,
there's
two
subsidies
that
this
map
is
showing
us
subsidy
number
one-
and
this
is
a
universal
subsidy
that
we
see
everywhere
across
this
country.
The
poor
neighborhoods
are
subsidizing.
The
affluent
neighborhoods
subsidy
number
two,
the
future
residents
of
Lafayette
are
subsidizing.
G
G
That
is
not
going
to
happen,
and
so
at
some
point
in
the
future,
the
city
is
going
to
have
to
make
a
decision
on
what
they
don't
take
care
of,
what
they
let
go
right
now
they
have
a
forty
five
million
dollar
backlog
of
road
maintenance.
Their
annual
budget
for
road
maintenance
is
six
hundred
thousand
dollars,
they
could
quadruple
their
budget
and
they
will
never
catch
up
right.
G
This
is
a
pattern
we
see
in
places
like
Detroit
and
Flint,
where
they
got
started
doing
this
thirty
years
ahead
of
everybody
else.
They
arrived
at
the
logical
destination,
30
years
of
ahead
of
everybody
else.
This
is
a
pattern
we
see
in
City
after
City
after
City,
where
the
illusion
of
wealth
created
by
this
props
up
the
entire
system
for
a
while.
But
then
we
wind
up
kind
of
spread
out
like
not
enough
butter
over
too
much
bread
right
and
there's
just
not
enough
there
to
maintain
everything
and
so
Lafayette.
G
Much
like
Detroit
is
going
to
have
to
make
some
very
hard
decisions
in
the
future
on
what
they
choose
to
maintain
and
what
they
don't.
That's
the
conversation
they're
having
right
now,
I
want
you
to
take
a
look
at
some
of
these
places,
because
I
think
looking
at
them
helps
crystallize
in
our
mind
the
possibilities
for
how
we
start
to
dig
out
of
these
problems.
These
are
from
North
Carolina,
but
that
could
be
anywhere.
The
numbers
are
pretty
close.
The
same.
Here's
a
big
que,
384,000
an
acre.
Here's,
a
Walmart,
900
67,000,
an
acre.
G
G
G
I
think
we
can
actually
do
better
than
this,
but
if
this
is
all
we're
capable
of
doing
think
of
the
opportunity
that
we're
providing
right
think
of
the
opportunity,
that's
there,
because
we
all
understand
you
know
who
owns
this:
where
do
these
profits
go
right?
We
all
understand
this
kind
of
model,
and
while
this
is
easy
to
finance-
and
it
looks
big-
and
it
looks
flashy-
this
stuff
doesn't
look
near
as
sexy
right,
but
where
do
the
profits
go
here?
Who
is
starting
this
business
here?
G
What
kind
of
implications
are
there
for
a
city
with
a
hundred
of
these
right?
This
is
easy
to
do
and
when
we
go
do
this,
we
don't
have
to
build
new
pipe.
We
don't
have
to
build
new
road.
We
don't
have
to
make
huge
investments,
we're
just
taking
the
stuff
we
have
and
making
better
use
of
them,
we're
filling
in
the
spaces
that
we
have
to
get
more
out
of
our
investments
and
we're
building
wealth
and
we're
creating
opportunity
in
our
community
in
the
process.
G
Here's
the
last
idea
it
kind
of
goes
hand-in-hand
with
the
whole
Jimmy's
Pizza
concept.
There's
a
there's,
a
saying
out
of
Silicon
Valley
that
goes.
Innovation
that
happens
from
the
top
down
tends
to
be
orderly
but
dumb,
while
innovation
from
the
bottom
up
tends
to
be
chaotic
but
smart.
We
we
off
a
preference
for
smart
over
dumb
right,
but
we
actually
have
a
much
stronger
preference
for
order
over
chaos
and
if
you
doubt
that
just
drive
your
Main
Street
right
have
you
ever
sat
at
one
of
those
traffic
signals
at
1:00
in
the
morning.
G
We're
willing
to
tolerate
a
lot
of
dumb
in
order
to
have
order
right,
that's
the
way,
we're
wired.
Let
me
show
you
what
this
looks
like
from
a
city
standpoint.
This
is
Memphis
Tennessee
and
I've
been
fortunate
enough
to
do
some
work
with
Memphis
Tennessee.
This
is
a
great
city
was
the
city
that
shows
up
in
a
lot
of
the
desperation
statistics
right
there
with
Detroit
homicide
rates
out
of
wedlock
births,
poverty
rates,
Detroit
and
Memphis
are
often
one
to
two.
One.
G
Memphis
did
everything
they
were
supposed
to
do
after
World
War
two
to
create
growth
and
prosperity
and
jobs.
They
ran
the
highways
through
the
middle
of
the
city.
They
ripped
down
buildings
to
make
it
happen.
They
ripped
down
buildings
to
build
parking
lots.
They
expanded
outward
running,
sewer
and
water
out
further
and
further
they
ripped
out
neighborhoods,
they
didn't
think
were
very
good.
They
rebuilt
things,
they
thought
would
be
better.
They
eventually
built
a
beltway
that
kept
extending
out
further
and
further.
They
eventually
built
a
second
Beltway.
G
So
they
went
out
and
they
built
the
stadium
and
they
went
looking
for
a
team.
Now
for
those
of
you
that
don't
follow
basketball,
the
Memphis
Grizzlies,
the
Memphis
was
able
to
relocate
from
Vancouver
the
NBA
team,
the
Grizzlies.
The
problem
is
when
they
got
to
town,
they
didn't
like
the
stadium,
so
the
city
wound
up
building
them
a
new
stadium,
a
few
blocks
away.
This
one
sat
empty
for
15
years
after
200,
plus
million
dollars
of
state
and
local
subsidy.
G
Orderly
but
dumb,
let
me
show
you
chaotic,
but
smart.
This
is
also
in
Memphis
Tennessee.
There's
a
little
street
called
broad
avenue.
Broad
avenue
used
to
be
a
streetcar,
stop
streetcar
would
stop
there.
There's
a
couple
blocks
of
shops
surrounding
neighborhoods
in
the
50s.
The
city
tore
out
the
streetcar
lines.
They
ran
a
highway
through
this
middle.
This
neighborhood
without
the
streetcar
stop
without
the
ability
of
people
to
walk
these
places
just
died.
Some
neighbors
fed
up
with
the
decline
fed
up
with
a
neglect,
took
matters
into
their
own
hands.
G
They
went
out,
they
work
with
the
property
owners,
get
the
stores
swept
out,
they
swept
up
the
sidewalks,
they
painted
their
own
bike
lanes,
they
painted
their
own
crosswalks.
They
invited
businesses
for
one
weekend
to
come
in
and
open
up
and
just
show
people
what
this
could
be
like.
They
had
a
bike
shop
and
a
couple:
art
galleries
and
a
taco
stand
and
an
ice-cream
place,
and
they
just
invited
people
to
come
in
and
and
and
and
and
open
up.
They
didn't
go
ask
for
permission
from
the
city.
G
They
didn't
ask
for
department
of
health
inspections
right.
They
figured
by
the
time
anybody
gets
cranky
with
us.
We're
gonna
be
gone
anyway.
Let's
just
go
and
do
this
and
they
made
a
like
a
weekend
party
of
it,
and
this
is
not
the
greatest
block
in
the
world
right,
there's
a
heck
of
a
lot
better
than
what
was
there
before.
I
wasn't
here
for
this
project,
but
I
was
out
here
six
months
later,
when
I
was
out.
G
Now,
I,
don't
know
what
your
city
would
do.
I,
don't
know,
I,
don't
know
the
policy
here.
If,
if
you
guys
went
out
and
started
doing
things
like
this
right,
I
can
tell
you
what
my
city
would
do.
My
city
would
be
out
Monday
morning
with
the
power
washers
right.
You'd
have
you
know
this
is
not
up
to
the
manual
for
uniform
traffic
control
devices.
The
attorney
would
be
out
there
saying
you
know
that
doesn't
mean
our
standard.
Someone
could
get
killed,
we're
liable
and
they
would
they
would.
You
know,
have
no
tolerance
for
this.
G
They
get
rid
of
it.
Then
they
probably
send
the
police
chief
over
to
give
me
a
ticket
right,
but
the
city
of
Memphis
is
desperate
and
their
desperation
has
made
them
really
smart,
and
so
what
did
they
do?
They
went
out
and
got
rid
of
this
right,
but
only
after
they
had
a
plan
to
put
it
back
permanently,
you
see,
the
city
of
Memphis
is
desperate
and
their
desperation
has
made
them
really
smart.
G
They
realized
that
they
could
have
all
the
public
hearings
all
the
visioning
sessions,
all
the
you
know,
sticker
charts
on
the
wall,
and
they
never
would
have
identified
this
as
the
high
returning
investment,
but
their
residents
did
and
now
their
job
becomes
to
never
let
it
go
back.
Never
let
it
go
back,
that's
a
much
easier
job
right.
G
We
were
so
inspired
by
the
Memphis
story
that
in
my
hometown
we
took
that
neighborhood
with
the
Taco
John's
and
the
old
and
blighted
block.
We
spent
a
whole
year
out
there
working
trying
to
identify
things
that
could
be
done
to
make
people's
lives
better.
We
went
out
and
saw
where
cars
were
driving
too
fast.
Next
to
the
school.
We
did
a
little
speed
study.
We
went
out
a
week
later
and
painted
narrower
lanes.
Did
a
speed
study
again
saw
that
it
dramatically
lowered
the
speed
of
cars
we
put
in
temporary
crosswalks.
G
We
talked
to
people
in
the
neighborhood,
just
follow
them
around
and
watched
where
they
struggled.
We
saw
the
mother
walking
through
the
ditch
weeds
up
to
her
ways
pushing
a
stroller.
What
are
you
doing?
Well,
I
have
to
get
to
the
grocery
store.
I
don't
have
a
car.
Today,
it's
not
safe
to
walk
on
the
street,
so
I'm
walking
here
in
the
ditch,
so
the
elderly
woman,
walking
and
this
middle
of
the
street
with
a
walker
I
mean
over
mountains
of
snow.
What
are
you
doing?
G
I
have
to
get
to
the
pharmacy
I,
don't
have
a
choice.
There's
no
sidewalk
here
and
the
sidewalk
back.
There
isn't
shoveled,
so
I'm
walking
here
in
the
middle
of
the
street.
We
documented
all
these
and
we
put
together
at
the
end
of
the
year.
This
report
called
neighborhoods
first
and
identified
eight
projects.
The
city
could
do
to
make
the
neighborhood
a
little
bit
better
place.
Little
things
like
you
know,
put
in
a
crosswalk
here,
plant
a
row
of
trees
over
here.
My
city
is
currently
in
the
process
of
spending.
G
Fourteen
million
dollars
running
sewer
and
water,
two
miles
out
of
town
to
build
a
second
industrial
park.
This
one
out
at
the
airport.
Our
existing
industrial
park
is
not
full,
but
this
one
would
be
oriented
towards
the
airport,
which
is
going
to
have
some
magic
power
to
it:
14
million
dollars
the
total
cost
of
our
eight
projects.
G
Sixteen
thousand
seven
hundred
dollars.
It's
nothing!
What
happens
if
we
go
out
and
we
spend
sixteen
thousand
seven
or
dollars
in
this
neighborhood
and
nothing
happens.
Nobody's
lives
are
made
any
better.
Nobody
looks
at
this
neighborhood
and
said
wow.
This
is
getting
to
be
a
nice
place.
I'd
like
to
move
here,
I'd
like
to
buy
a
property
here,
I'd
like
to
invest
the
probabilities,
don't
go
up
at
all;
nothing
changes.
What
what
then
well
we're
out
sixteen
thousand
seven
or
dollars.
G
We
learned
eight
things
that
don't
work
next
year
we
go,
try
another
eight
things
right.
These
are
small
investments
over
a
broad
area
over
a
long
period
of
time.
I
do
think,
though,
however,
that
we've
kind
of
figured
out
some
of
the
things
that
will
work,
I
mean
I,
went
to
the
City
Engineer
and
said
I
I
think
you
could
use
a
sidewalk
here
yeah.
G
We
have
been
for
so
long
obsessed
with
chasing
the
dollar
out
on
the
edge
of
town
that
we
have
completely
overlooked.
The
pennies
and
nickels
and
the
dimes
that
are
just
waiting
in
our
core
neighborhoods
to
be
picked
up.
This
city
is
a
prime
example.
This
is
such
a
I
came
into
town.
This
is
such
a
beautiful
city
there's
so
many
things
going
right
here,
there's
so
many
things
that
are
positive
about
you
downtown
about
the
surrounding
neighborhoods.
This
place
is
just
dripping
with
opportunity.
G
We
just
have
to
look
at
it
differently
and
as
we're
walking
around
tonight,
we
were
kind
of
talking
about
opportunities
and
we
were
talking
about
I'm
in
a
big
sense,
and
we
saw
someone
go
by
on
a
bike
and
I
said
who's.
That
guy
follow
him
figure
out.
What
he's
doing
respond
to
his
needs
that
that's
the
person
right
and
then
someone
else
came
out
of
a
building.
Sir
walking
out
I
said
who's
that
go,
follow
that
person
watch
where
they
struggle.
G
If
we
can
address
that
will
make
life
a
little
bit
better
right
and
then
it'll
feed
on
itself
and
feed
on
itself
and
it
feed
on
itself.
We
do
not
need
big
projects,
we
need
thousands
of
little
projects.
Our
cities
just
need
love
block
by
block
by
block,
and
if
we
humble
ourselves
to
ask
where
are
our
people
struggling
and
where
is
the
next
smallest
thing
we
can
do
to
address
that
struggle?
G
G
I
would
like
to
say
two
quick
things
about
your
city
and
then,
if
we
can
I'm
happy
to
have
any
conversation
that
you
guys
want,
I
was
very
confused
when
I
came
into
town,
but
by
the
one-way
street,
because
I
was
in
the
right
lane
and
then
I
realized
that
oh,
my
gosh
we're
all
going
in
the
same
direction,
because
it's
such
a
beautifully
scaled
Street
like
it's,
it's
the
it's
just
the
right
width.
The
parking
is
just
the
right
width.
The
street
is
everything
about.
G
It
is
really
it's
perfect,
except
it's
one
direction
in
your
downtown.
I
walked
around
with
a
radar
gun
and
people
are
driving
is
way
too
fast.
This
the
the
signals
slow
it
down,
but
in
that
orderly,
but
dumb
kind
of
way,
what
you
really
want
is
a
chaotic
but
smart,
downtown
where
traffic
flows
but
flows
at
a
very
friendly
speed
when
the
lights
are
green
and
people
are
coming
through
town,
it's
way
too
fast
and
I
had
a
radar
gun,
and
it
was
so
it
was
really
bad.
This
is
easy
fix.
This
is
easy.
G
Easy
fix,
I
also
just
think
that
when
we
look
at
the
city,
if
you
ask
the
question:
where
are
the
people?
Where
are
people
and
when
you
find
the
people
say?
How
do
we
get
them
here?
To
this
critical
mass
you're
downtown
is
party
really
nice
it
all
it
lacks
is
people
you
just
need
to
get
people
there
and
I
know.
There's
some
living
options.
G
I
know
there's
some
living
options
going
in,
but
literally
we
would
see
like
flashes
of
a
person
like
riding
by
on
a
bike
or
walking
over
here
like
where
are
they
just
get
them
just
collect
them
and
bring
them
here?
Make
it
easy
for
them
to
get
here,
because
there's
so
much
great
stuff
going
on
I'm
really
enthused
about
Watertown
and
I'm
happy
to
talk
about
anything
that
that
you
guys
would
want
to
chat
about
I.
A
F
G
Think
we
have
to
get
down
to
their
scale,
so
you
have
to
actually
get
out
and
walk
the
street
and
what
we
did
in
that
neighborhood
in
North
Brainerd
was.
We
were
just
walk
the
street
and
saw
where
people
were
struggling
a
lot
of
times.
People
will
be
trying
to
walk
someplace
and
they
can't
try
to
fix
that.
Ask
what
is
the
the
smallest
investment
we
can
make
to
make
this
a
little
bit
easier.
G
A
What
is
interesting,
though
Chuck,
is
that
if
you
look
at
the
Uptown
of
the
downtown
I'm
sorry,
if
you
look
at
that,
you
know
it
seems
like
something
new
is
going
in
all
the
time.
You
know
you
got
the
Harry's,
you
got
the
brewery
company,
you
got
the
sushi
place.
You've
got
Mary.
Readlyn
is
rebuilding
hers,
putting
a
new
face
on
that.
It
seems
like
they
feed
upon
themselves,
though,
and
we're
seeing
this
they
do.
You
know
there
there's
no
Dave
Johnson
as
read
on
the
corner
over
there,
that
gosh
is
redoing.
A
G
Think
the
I
think
the
the
thing
that
we
can
do
as
a
public
body
or
we
can
do
as
citizens
is
downtown's-
are
all
about
connections
and
they're,
not
connection
oftentimes.
We
think
in
terms
of
parking
spaces
and
parking
lots,
but
the
actual
connections
that
make
a
downtown
accelerate
are
human-scale
connections.
So
how
do
we
get
across
the
street
easier?
That
is
worth
spending
a
lot
of
time,
thinking
about
and
experimenting
with
different
approaches,
because
that
is
a
connection
that
will
really
pay
back
a
lot
I
think.
L
G
L
Eliminated
that
I
mean
I
heard
that
from
a
lot
of
people
as
I
wouldn't
want
to
go
downtown
shopping,
I
get
to
move
my
car
every
two
hours
and
also
eliminated
overnight
parking
or
you
know
before
we
didn't
didn't,
allow
it.
And
now
we
want
people
to
reside
downtown.
So
we've
created
a
little
more
friendly
atmosphere
and.
G
G
You
have
way
too
much
parking,
and
so
by
having
to
our
limits
as
an
artificial,
silly
thing,
you
actually
need
bodies
and
people,
but
if
you're
successful
you
will
reach
a
point
where
the
the
cars
become
the
cars
that
are
just
staying
there
become
an
impediment,
and
then
you
might
have
to
bring
back
the
two-hour
minimum
during
the
day
leave
the
overnight.
Then
you
might
have
to
transition
out
of
that
to
some
type
of
paid.
G
Ultimately,
you
should
get
to
the
point
where
there's
so
much
going
on
the
downtown
you
and
live
there
without
a
car,
or
you
know
the
the
parking
is
you
can
charge
for
it,
and
people
will
still
come
there
because
the
downtown's
so
great
and
that's
a
you
know,
our
reaction
to
parking
is
to
build
more
what
we
should
be
building
more
of
is
more
places
that
people
want
to
be.
I
saw
the
parks
you
built
in
between
the
buildings
there
they're
very
nice,
but.
G
A
A
A
Okay,
I'm
gonna
I'm
gonna
adjourn
this
meeting
and
then
you
guys
got
two
minutes.
Okay,
I
think
we're
gonna
get
going
here.
Folks,
I'd
like
to
welcome
you
all
to
the
City
Council
meeting,
then
Monday
June
20th
of
2016.
At
this
time,
I
will
call
the
meeting
to
order
and
we
will
do
the
Pledge
of
Allegiance.
D
C
M
J
A
A
We're
hey
Dan
before
you
leave
come
on
back
here.
I
thought
were
that
weird
in
the
heck
did
dangle
he's
like
slipping
out
of
here.
We
want
to
ask
you,
we
want
to
ask
you
a
question
on
see
here
come
on
up
to
the
microphone.
If
you
are
grab
that
one,
you
could
sit
right
there,
whatever
you
want
to
do,
Dan
we're.
A
K
A
We
like
camels,
all
right
thanks,
Dan
appreciate
it
any
other
questions:
Harry,
nine
I'll,
look
for
council
action,
all
those
in
favor,
say
aye
opposed
motion
carried
approval,
the
agenda.
What
I
would
like
to
do
is
we
will
pull
number
five
off
the
agenda,
so
I'd
like
an
approval
on
that
second
by
Bruce.
Second,
by
Glenn
any
questions
and
not
outlook
for
council
action,
all
those
in
favor
say
aye
opposed
motion
carried,
so
we
will
pull
that
off.
The
agenda.
A
Number
three
renewal
of
a
retail
on
off
sale,
malt
beverage
license
to
Mario
Santos
Guzman,
doing
business
as
san
miguel
restaurant,
a
at
7:15
9,000
of
south
east
for
the
period
of
July
1
2016
through
June
30th
of
2017.
At
this
time,
I
will
open
the
public
hearing.
If
there's
anyone
wants
to
speak
in
favor
of
or
against
this
your
opportunity
hearing,
none
I
will
close
the
public
hearing.
I
will
look
for
a
motion,
a
second
for
a
discussion
motion
by
Randy
second
by
Don,
any
questions.
Why.
N
M
A
Any
other
questions:
Harry
none,
I'll,
look
for
council
action,
all
those
in
favor,
say:
aye
aye
opposed
motion
carried
number
four
vacation
of
a
portion
of
public
right
away,
adjacent
to
South
Lake
Drive
resolution
number
16-22.
At
this
time,
I
will
open
the
public
hearing.
If
there's
anybody
that
wants
to
speak
in
favor
of
or
against
this,
this
your
opportunity
hearing,
none
I'll
close
the
public
hearing
and
Shane.
Would
you
have
some
comments
of
this?
For
us?
Yes,.
O
I
do
Thank
You
mayor.
Can
you
put
my
screen
up?
O
O
So
I
have
gotten
some
more
surveying
data
gathered
Friday
and
today
to
fine-tune
a
map
that
will
tell
us
how
much
of
this
we
can
vacate
safely
without
either
leaving
utilities
on
private
property
or
having
private
property
on
public
right
away.
So
we
didn't
have
a
chance
to
get
this
clarified
at
the
last
Planning
Commission
meeting,
but
because
of
the
publication
deadlines,
we
had
to
get
this
Norris
for
this
public
hearing
published
and
then
we
so
we
decided
to
receive
the
any
public
comments
which
now
we
don't
have,
but
anyway
I'm
gonna,
perfect.
O
The
drawing
and
the
area
be
vacated.
We'll
review
that
at
the
Planning
Commission
this
Thursday
and
our
regular
meeting
and
we'll
bring
this
issue
back
to
you
for
a
final
decision
at
the
July
5th
meeting.
So
I
would
like
to
ask
the
council
to
delay
a
decision
on
this
item
until
the
July
5th
meeting
so.
O
A
A
O
A
F
A
O
There's
there's
there
may
be
other
options,
but
the
reality
is
is
that
we
have
80
88
feet
of
right
away
in
this
area,
that
we
don't
need
that
much
right
away.
So
we're
our
intention
is
to
pair
this
back
down
to
a
70
foot
right
away,
which
is
typical
for
a
collector
arterial
Street
of
this
nature,
and
and
that's
why
the
18
foot
dimension
was
grabbed
right
away.
But
until
we
at
the
time
we
didn't
realize
that
the
roadway
wasn't
centered
in
the
what
right
away
we
had
so
now.
A
O
A
A
All
right,
I
will
look
for
counsel
action.
All
those
in
favor
say
aye
opposed
motion
carried,
and
you
did
recuse
yourself,
Don
recused
himself.
On
this
one
and
number
five.
We
pulled
off
number
six
ordinance
number
1611
amending
section,
six
point:
zero:
five:
zero
one
of
the
revised
ordinance
of
the
city
of
Watertown
regarding
veterans,
burrial
plots
with
Mount
Hope
Cemetery.
A
O
Yeah
second
reading,
like
if
my
screens
on
the
new
ordinance,
describes
all
everything
in
the
blue
box
and
adds
to
it
everything
that's
in
the
green
box
and
the
green
box
will
account
for
or
provide
space
for.
Seventy
two
additional
burial
plots
for
veterans
that
qualify.
You
know
for
service
through
foreign
wars
and
in
service
in
the
Armed
Services,
and
so
we
just
we
had
run
out
of
space
for
the
existing
veterans
plot.
C
This
seems
like
a
very
outdated
ordinance
requirement
and
I
know.
It's
been
a
lot
of
years
since
we've
had
this,
but
if
we're
gonna
go
through
all
the
trouble
to
go
through
an
ordinance
change,
why
aren't
we
asking
the
question?
Is
this
even
needed?
This
seems
like
a
cemetery
management
issue
which
is
governed
by
under
the
Park
and
Rec
and
their
recommendations
versus
allotting
space,
as
the
ordinance
says,
why
are
we
not
eliminating
the
requirement
that
it
come
to
this
body?
A
O
O
And
this
is
just
an
assumption
or
a
managerial
thing
that
I
think
maybe
it's
a
part
of
the
reason
is
these
veteran
plots
are
provided
free
of
charge
to
people
that
qualify
for
those
plots.
Everything
else
on
in
that
cemetery
is
a
plot.
That's
sold
off
to
the
general
public
and
I
think
somebody
probably
was
expected
that
they
didn't
want
to
sell
off
all
the
plots
and
not
leave
anything
for
the
veterans
that
could
get
a
free
plot.
O
A
Okay
and
I
do
think
you
guys
just
so
you
know
we
will
be
looking
at
these
ordinance
because
there
are
numerous
things
on
the
books
that
probably
should
be
taken
off.
Okay,
I
think
we
have
a
motion
a
second
on
the
floor.
There's
no
other
questions.
I'll,
look
for
council
action,
all
those
in
favor,
say:
aye
aye
opposed
motion
carried
number
7.
First
reading
of
ordinance
number
1610
amending
amending
the
zoning
district
boundaries
by
rezoning
property
from
PUD,
planned
you,
development,
single-family,
attached,
residential
district
and
I
one
late
industrial
2a1
agricultural
district.
A
O
The
city
staff
had
got
an
inquiry
about
doing
some
improvements
in
the
park,
which
would
typically
include
a
a
building
permit
or
or
something
that
would
require
permits
and
when
we
were,
staff
was
reviewing
it.
If
you
see
the
little
area
in
the
far
lower
right,
corners
kind
of
a
purplish
tinged
area
and
then
the
larger
green
hatched
area,
the
green
hatched
is
pewdie.
That
purplish
area
is
an
industrial
eye.
One
lot
and
the
yellowish
ones
along
campus
go
Boulevard.
Are
the
residential
art
to
all
of
those
properties
are
currently
used
for
city
park?
O
So
what
we
wanted
to
do
was
clean
up
the
zoning
so
that
all
of
it
reflected
the
same
uses
and
opportunities
for
the
rest
of
the
city
parks
in
the
region.
The
zoo,
the
parks
to
the
south,
the
parks
to
the
north
are
all
zone
agricultural.
So
we're
proposing
to
rezone
this
area
to
agricultural
to
be
consistent.
O
O
A
O
O
A
E
O
One
of
the
items
that
was
a
portion
of
that
development
agreement
is
the
lot
that
you
see
in
blue
on
the
screen
is
the
storm
water,
detention,
pond
and
part
of
the
development
agreement
also
included
the
construction
of
sidewalk
along
the
north
I
know,
there's
the
12th
Avenue
side
and
also
on
the
east
along
33rd
Street,
the
owner
of
the
development
or
the
developer,
is
now
asking
if
he
can
forego
the
installation
of
site
along
the
33rd
street
side
of
the
property
he
is
intending
on.
Putting
the
sidewalk
across
the
northerly
portion
along
12th
Avenue.
O
Since
the
council
previously
had
adopted
the
development
agreement
and
that's
what
we
have
signed,
the
contract,
I
I,
didn't
feel
that
staff
could
forego
anything
for
requirements.
Regarding
this
lot.
The
lot
has
not
yet
been
deeded
over
to
the
city
for
maintenance
or
operation.
I
expect
that
at
some
point
in
the
near
future,
they
will
request
that
the
city
take
it
over
and
city
staff
will
follow
through
with
all
the
requirements
of
the
either
the
original
development
agreement
or
the
amended
one
based
on
your
decision
here
tonight.
A
I
just
kind
of
wanted
to
mention
that
originally
when,
when
they
were
doing
this
development,
they
brought
it
to
the
city
and
they
had
that
retention.
The
city
then
was
requiring
them
to
put
sidewalk
all
the
way
around
on
four
corners
and
they
they
did
then
come
back
and
worked
out
an
agreement
that
they
would
have
it
on
the
north
and
the
east.
Since
that
time
we
put
in
the
bike
trail
on
the
east
side,
which
is
used
for
the
entire
area.
C
A
C
A
Actually,
asking
at
the
time
that
you
would
push
it
out
that
it
could
be
done,
they're
going
to
deed
this
over
to
the
city.
I
know
they
brought
that
information
to
us
for
a
long
time
ago.
They
are
going
to
need
it
over,
but
within
that
acceptance
of
the
deed,
we
need
to
make
sure
whether
we,
whether
we
say
ok,
if
there's
property
on
the
south
of
that,
do
we
need
the
sidewalk
on
that
east
side.
So
I
think.
F
O
F
Have
to
make
a
decision
on
whether
or
not
we
want
to
go
the
bike
trail
is
going
to
be
sufficient
for
our
needs
there
or
whether
or
not
somebody
else.
If
we
did
decide
who
would
say,
we
had
a
sidewalk
on
that
side.
Who
then
would
be
responsible
for
the
sidewalk
continuation
along
that?
If
we
didn't
do
that
along
that
water
retention
area,
so.
O
Well,
if
the
city
got
it
deeded
over
to
us,
it
would
be
our
responsibility
to
complete
the
sidewalk
grid.
If
so,
the
question
is:
do
we
want
to
take
on
that
responsibility
by
accepting
a
deed
without
a
sidewalk
or
the
options
as
I
see
it,
we
could
either
take
money
in
lieu
of
a
sidewalk
now
so
that
we
can
afford
to
build
it
later
or
they
could
build
out
the
sidewalk
as
per
their
original
agreement
deed
over
the
lot
to
the
city,
and
then
it's
done.
The
only
thing
I
don't
like
about
that
is.
O
F
O
O
F
N
E
O
The
development
to
the
north
does
have
a
service
road
that
is
intended
to
serve
both
for
vehicles
and
pedestrians.
They
don't
they
don't
have
a
designated
area
painted
on
there,
but
that
was
what,
when
they
developed
that
portion
that
was
supposed
to
be
useful.
With
this
pedestrian
and
traffic
to
get
into
your
driveway
can.
A
O
O
If
that,
if
that
is
the
path
we
take,
there's
no
motion
needed
because
I'll
just
hold.
We
just
want
to
accept
a
deed
for
this
property,
we'll
let
him
install
the
sidewalk
line
12th
and
then,
when
such
time
that
he
wants
to
deed
it
over
to
us.
If
he
wants
to
put
the
sidewalk
along
33rd
Street,
then
then.
A
A
M
A
So
you
guys
all
got
it.
Okay,
so
I
will
look
for
council
action.
All
those
in
favor
say:
aye
opposed
motion
failed.
Okay,
thanks,
Shane
number,
nine
consideration,
a
change
order,
number
one
to
the
contract
with
Bates
construction
company
incorporated
for
the
Watertown
Regional
Landfill
cell
number,
six
construction
project,
increasing
the
contract
amount
by
three
thousand
dollars
and
what
I'll
do
is
I'll
look
for
a
motion.
A
second
first
got
emotional
in
Mike.
Second,
by
Don
Shane.
You
want
to
give
us
a
little
okay.
O
Yeah,
this
is
one
of
those
unique
projects.
It's
been
an
ongoing
cycle
of
construction
out
the
landfill
and
what
the
reason
this
change
order-
creeped
in
so
early
in
this
project,
is
it's
only
a
couple
weeks
ended
construction
was
when
the
design
work
was
done
off
of
survey
that
was
done
several
years
ago
and
in
that
time
frame
a
lot
of
volunteer
trees
have
grown
up
along
an
area
that
were
we
were
building
a
new
road
through
and
of
course,
none
of
the
survey
data
would
reflect
those
new
volunteer
trees
in
that
period
of
time.
O
So
it
was
identified
almost
immediately
upon
the
contractor,
arriving
and
starting
earthward
that
the
trees
were
going
to
be
a
nuisance.
A
lot
of
them
were,
many
of
them
were
three
inches
in
diameter,
which
is
a
little
bit
larger
than
a
standard.
You
know
an
earth
removal
type
situation,
so
our
engineer
negotiated
a
clearing
grub
priced
of
three
thousand
dollars
to
take
care
of
about
a
two
acre
area
of
volunteer
trees,
and
we
felt
that
that
was
reasonable
and
it
was
fair
to
the
contractor
because
he
had
to
deal
with
a
little
bit
extra
work.
F
F
A
F
I
A
O
The
sign
ordinance
became
my
temporary
urban
planner
and
has
been
working
for
the
city,
helping
us
maintain
the
Planning
Commission
items
going
forward,
so
that
delayed
in
him
in
finishing
that
sign,
ordinance,
I
believe
he's
now
got
it
done
a
rough
draft
and
ready
to
convene
that
group
to
review
that
and
I
think
you'd
see
a
meeting
coming
fairly
soon.
F
F
A
I
A
Very
well,
there
wasn't
a
lot
of
disagreement
on
what
we're
seeing.
We
realized.
You
know
the
front
yards.
The
backyard
in
the
backyard
is
a
front
yard,
so
we
we
took
that
into
consideration,
but
I
think
it
went
really
quite
smooth.
We're
going
to
have
to
have
a
couple
more
meetings
on
that
and
think
we'll
be
bringing
something
together
very
shortly.
I.
K
B
F
A
A
Okay,
thank
you.
Any
liaison
member
reports.
I
do
have
a
reason
to
go
into
executive
session.
I,
don't
expect
any
action
out
of
this,
and
it
should
not
take
very
long.
So
at
this
time,
I'll
look
for
a
motion,
a
second
of
going
to
executive.
It
is
for
contract
negotiations
and
issues,
issues
in
building
permits,
and
things
like
that.
So
I
had
a
motion
by
Randy.
Second
by
Mike,
all
in
favor
say:
aye
opposed
good.