►
From YouTube: Planning Committee, 19 April 2018
Description
AGENDA (To view individual agenda items click on the links below)
1. Declarations of Interest 00:01:44
2. Minutes 00:01:52
3. Public Participation 00:02:11
4. Plans List 00:02:16
4a) Land to East Of St Leonard's Hospice and 13 to 20 The Square, Dringhouses, York [17/02619/FULM] 00:02:16
For full agenda, attendance details and supporting documents visit:
http://democracy.york.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=132&MId=9940
A
Okay,
good
afternoon
everybody,
it's
gone
five
and
I.
Think
everybody's
here.
That
should
be
here
so
we'll
make
start
bulk
of
this
meeting
of
the
planning
committee.
I
have
apologies
from
councillor
Doughty
and
councillor
Douglass's
joined
us
and
from
councillor
Curran
councillor
Flinders
has
joined
us
right.
Welcome
councillor
Taylor
to
his
first
planning
committee
meeting.
I,
hope
you
enjoy
your
time
with
us
and
can
I
also
thank
councillor
for
his
interim
chairing
of
this
planning
committee
over
the
last
six
days.
A
Just
remembers:
can
they
please
turn
off
their
mobile
phones
or
turn
them
to
silent?
There
is
no
I
left
mine
at
home,
so
everybody
remember
there
is
no
fire
alarm
practice
test
scheduled.
So
if
it
goes
off,
we
will
need
to
leave
the
building,
and
we
all
know
where
the
loser
I
think
we
don't
have
very
many
members
of
the
public,
so
I
think
it's
fine,
but
of
course
we
are,
as
usual,
being
recorded
and
streamed
to
the
internet.
So
can
ask
if
any
members
have
any
declarations
of
interest.
A
A
We
have
nobody
registered
speak
under
general
public
participation,
so
we
move
on
to
the
plans
lists,
of
which
we
only
have
one
item
which
is
land
to
the
east
of
Santana's
hospice
and
13
to
20
the
square.
We
have
two
speakers,
one
who
knows
the
ropes
someone,
perhaps
not
so
there'll,
be
a
as
usual.
An
officer
update
members
can
ask
officer
questions.
The
speakers
then
will
have
three
minutes
each
and
you
may
or
may
not
ask
them
questions,
and
then
we
move
into
debate
so.
A
B
You
chair,
there
is
an
update
for
committee.
It's
set
out
on
the
paper
that
I
just
handed
round
if
I
could
just
go
through
it
for
members.
First
of
all,
there
was
a
late
consultation
from
network
management,
the
council's
at
Highway
Authority.
They
raised
no
objection
to
the
application
in
terms
of
the
access
arrangements
to
the
site
or
the
traffic
generation
data
that
was
provided
with
the
application,
though
they
have
requested
conditions,
some
of
which
are
within
their
report.
B
B
They
agree
that
the
additional
parking
that
is
for
and
access
through,
Santana's
hospice
is,
is
justified,
given
the
difficulties
that
are
experienced
by
staff
and
visitors
at
the
hospice,
and
that
was
based
on
information
provided
with
the
application
from
the
hospice.
If
we
turn
over
there's
three
conditions
requested
that
be
are
in
addition
to
at
the
report.
B
B
In
this
particular
location
here
where
the
access
road
meets
the
grove
and
the
second
to
do
with
the
existing
vehicle
crossing
points
which
members
will
have
seen,
there
is
an
existing
access
field,
access
already
from
the
grove
into
the
site
to
be
to
be
stopped
up
and
reinstated
with
a
curb
and
Virge.
The
third
condition
comes
about
following
the
the
site
visit.
B
Condition
referring
to
means
of
enclosure
around
the
site
for
that
to
be
confirmed
and
clarified,
and
in
particular,
details
of
the
gates
that
were
proposed
for
the
pedestrian
and
emergency
access
vehicle
access
proposed
from
the
square
in
this
location.
So
for
that
information
to
be
provided
through
condition,
and
then
the
third
thing
is
that
the
application,
because
it's
in
the
green
belts
and
it's
an
appropriate
development
in
the
green
belt
and
it's
over
a
thousand
square
meters-
would
have
to
be
referred
to
the
secretary
state
if
members
were
minded
to
prove
today.
C
Thank
you
Jeff
and
predictably
I'm.
Turning
to
condition,
eight
I
think
it's
been
raised
in
my
little
absence
by
other
counselors.
If
you
turn
to
the
last
sentence,
since
the
landscape
scheme
is
integral
to
the
amenity,
the
development
I
just
like
to
question,
why
we've
got
the
five-year
condition
and
not
for
the
lifetime
of
the
development,
with
the
landscape
in
skiing.
D
Chair
I
think
with
this
one
I
can
respond
to
this
question.
The
issue
here
is
it's
a
building
setting
and
landscaped
area
which
is
under
the
control
of
the
the
owner
of
the
hull
sides.
The
landscape
has
to
be
the
landscaping
has
to
be
set
out
in
accordance
with
an
approved
plan,
and
five
years
gives
it
time
to
establish.
D
We,
then,
if
the,
if
they
wanted
to
make
changes
to
the
landscaping
scheme,
then
it'll
be
in
their
own
hands
to
do
that.
The
management
to
their
own
grounds,
there's
any
other
large
I
used
the
word
institution
Orlando
and
would
allowed
to
do.
They
don't
have
the
rights
to
do
any
engineering
operations
without
planning
permission,
so
it
would
be
an
issue
where
they've
they
might
change
the
landscaping
in
one
area,
maybe
put
flower
beds
in
we're
at
the
moment.
A
A
C
A
C
Remark
to
all
the
conditions,
but
specifically
to
13
and
14,
and
this
is
bearing
in
mind
that
the
close
proximity
of
st.
Leonard's
space
and
you've
people
there
spent
in
the
last
few
days
on
earth
how
on
earth
do
we
have
confidence,
or
can
we
instill
confidence
in
people
that
any
of
these
conditions
will
ever
be
enforced
rigorously
and
specifically
in
relation
to
the
construction
environment
management
plan,
I
was
told
only
this
week
that
it's
not
the
job
of
the
enforcement
system
to
apply
sanctions.
C
F
A
A
Think
I
think
at
this
stage
we
can
only
put
on
the
conditions
what
happens
if
they
are
if
they
are
not
adhered
to,
if,
if
you're
unhappy
with
the
system
within
the
council,
that
would
then
deal
with
those
complaints.
That
is
a
that's
a
different
argument
from
us
today
approving
or
not
approving
a
planning
application.
G
Two
points:
one
is
him
on
this:
this
update,
I,
don't
know
whether
there's
been
any
consultation
with
the
either
walking
in
cycling
officer
or
the
college,
because
the
point
said
that
there's
been
no
personal
injury
accidents
resulting
from
vehicles.
Turning
into
these
premises,
to
my
knowledge,
there
been
a
number
of
probably
minor
accidents
involving
cyclists
as
a
cycle
lane
of
traffic.
G
Turning
in
turning
right
across
securing
traffic
is
a
regular
occurrence
along
there,
so
that
needs
to
be
looked
at
see
if
there's
anything
that
can
be
done
to
try
and
prevent
that
sort
of
minor
collision
incident
happening.
I
know
for
a
fact:
one
member
of
staff
was
off
sick
for
a
quite
a
number
of
significant
length
of
time
following
an
accident
in
that
location
and
omitting,
you
may
be
a
few
years
ago,
one.
A
G
There's
two
references:
firstly,
on
paragraph
page
32,
paragraph
4.49,
which
states
that
flood
risk
assessments
being
carried
out
proposed
proposed
drainage
strategy
includes
gravity
discharge
to
a
dedicated
suit,
so
an
attenuated
discharge
so
dedicated
so
at
within
the
field
to
southeast
aside.
The
drainage
strategy
is
indicative
and
therefore
a
condition
is
required
to
agree
with
detailed
arrangements
so
that
the
site
can
be
adequately
drained,
so
any
concerns
of
conditions.
G
It
doesn't
vary
one
that
I
can
find
this
condition
number
eleven
that
relates
to
disposal
of
foul
water,
drainage,
not
surface
drainage,
and
then
the
condition
12
says
that
it
shall
become
Rio
in
accordance
with
the
flood
risk
assessment,
which
the
previous
paragraph
says
is
indicative
only
and
there's
no
conditions
in
terms
of
the
amount
of
attenuation
or
how
you
know.
But
given
the
issues
about
runoff
and
flooding,
we
normally
have
a
condition
about
it
being
a
certain
percentage
of
greenfield
runoff.
G
B
At
thank
you
check
that
the
conditions
came
about.
They
were
requested
from
Yoshi
water
and
so
you're
sure
water
had
looked
at
the
the
scheme
and
they
are
the
conditions,
as
I
said
that
were
requested
by
them.
They
were
happy
with
the
the
surface
water
details.
I
think
the
reference
to
them
being
indicative
was
because
we
had
issues
about
the
proximity
of
pipe
work
to
the
trees,
which
came
about
probably
later
on
in
the
process.
B
It
may
be
that
we,
if
members
felt
it,
was
appropriate,
then
the
condition
could
be
amended
to
require
details
of
the
surface
water,
the
details
as
well.
Obviously,
the
condition
12
was
because
you're
sure
water
were
happy
with
the
principle
of
the
surface
water
drainage
proposals
that
were
put
forward
as
part
of
the
flood
risk
assessment.
H
Of
follows
on
from
that:
it's
okay,
saying
we
green
principle,
but
I.
Don't
not
anything
aware!
The
local
drainage
board
is
notified
because
that
net
boss
feels
drain
off
into
a
network
to
the
knot
and
therefore,
if
you
option
bar
to
turn
around
and
say
we
are
going
to
restrict
this,
the
only
option
is
then
to
turn
Alice
out.
Dump
it
down
this
Dix.
It
runs
down
so
and
so,
and
so,
but
then
puts
it
into
something
else,
which
is
then
being
fast
onto
something
rather
than
being
controlled.
A
B
Mean
the
the
council's
strategic
flood
whistle
Authority
commented
on
the
application
as
well
I'm,
assuming
that
the
internal
drainage
board
were
consulted,
the
often
pick
up
applications
as
well
that
they
show
particularly
interesting
from
the
weekly
list,
even
if
they
haven't
been
consulted,
but
the
main
consultations
are
yorkshire,
water,
Andy,
the
council's
strategic
flood
risk
Authority
and,
as
I
said,
if
members
thought
it
readable,
we
could
change
the
condition
condition.
Twelve.
H
H
A
A
I
All
of
our
tenants
here
have
a
registered
visual
or
hearing
loss
and
all
the
disabilities
and
they
range
in
severity.
Some
of
our
tenants
work.
Some
of
them
need
full-time
care.
The
current
housing
that
we
have
was
not
purpose-built
and
over
the
last
14
years,
despite
regular
investment
from
us
and
and
indeed
from
the
city
of
York
Council.
In
some
cases,
the
continued
adaptations
present
numerous
challenges
for
us
and
for
the
City
of
York,
adult
and
social
care
management
and
commissioning
team.
I
The
challenges
are
numerous
with
some
of
our
tenants
aging
quite
rapidly,
and
the
disabilities
worsening
people's
lack
of
choice,
of
who
I
live
with,
because
all
of
these
houses
are
shared
accommodation.
So
the
lack
of
choice
of
who
I
live
with
can
be
compromised
by
the
lack
of
accommodation
for
this
type
in
the
city.
Shared
housing
is
difficult
for
many
people
to
adapt
to,
and
whilst
it
may
seem
social
in
some
cases,
it
can
cause
isolation
where
they
avoid
the
people
they
actually
share
the
house.
I
We
then
spend
a
lot
of
time
in
there
if
we're,
not
careful
and
the
the
lack
of
accommodation
increasingly
sees
people's
independence
eroded,
actually
through
no
fault
of
any
individual,
because
they're
reliant
on
support
workers
in
a
communal
house
rather
than
doing
things
for
themselves.
So
it
actually
means
they
rely
and
they
become
very
reliant
on
a
group
of
people.
I
The
current
housing
doesn't
have
the
technical
advancements
in
the
house
of
the
new
aids
that
are
available
and
the
way
in
which
you
can
wire
a
house
etc,
because
you
can't
wire
a
house
for
people
because
they
all
want
different
things
30
seconds.
Thank
you
why
now,
the
adult
and
social
care
team
are
keen
to
ensure
that
accommodation
is
suitable
for
disabled
tenants
and
suitable
accommodation
of
this
type,
we're
acutely
aware
of
them
the
value
for
money
and
this
type
of
housing
scheme
puts
forward
and
has
been
proven
in
other
areas
of
the
country.
I
F
I
H
C
You've
heard
the
concerns
that
I've
got
and
if
you've
ever
visited
anybody
in
st.
Leonard's,
one
of
the
last
little
pleasures
that
they
do
have
who's
been
able
to
open
those
windows
and
actually
look
out
on
that
lovely
landscape
and
the
peace
and
quiet
you've
heard
my
reservations
as
to
enforcement
of
the
council.
If
it
was
found
that
there
was
excessive
disturbance
outside
of
these
hours,
will
you
commit
publicly
to
actually
shutting
the
site
down
for
a
day
to
actually
punitive
ly
punished?
J
C
K
A
H
H
Units
at
the
back
I
actually
know
my
brother-in-law
died
in
one
of
those
they
actually
open
up
and
they
sit
outside
so
I
think
a
bit
of
early
on
in
the
morning
a
bit
of
Graves
to
make
sure
that
vehicles
aren't
coming
in,
because
if
you
work
it
out,
that's
only
about
thirty
meters
from
that
call
of
that
routine,
where
the
trees
is,
which
is
the
length
of
this
room.
Nice
carries
very
easily.
Oh
and.
I
When
I
worked
with
one
of
when
we've
been
talking
to
the
chief
executive
and
the
trustees,
because
I
have
been
to
every
girl
of
Trustee
meetings
with
them,
we've
worked
really
closely
at
where
those
rooms
are
a
lot
of
the
rooms
on
the
bottom
floor
are
office.
Space
and
we've
looked
at
that
the
rooms
at
the
back,
where
they
do
well
for
now,
we've
looked
at
how
their
bedtime,
so
how
many?
I
How
many,
how
many
people
are
in
actually
and
their
bedtime-
has
reduced,
because
obviously
people
are
now
wanting
to
go
home
for
palliative
care,
etc,
etcetera,
so
that's
been
reduced,
so
we
will
work
with
them
on
the
rooms
as
well
of
where
people
are,
but,
of
course,
whatever.
We
need
to
do
to
make
it
right.
The
reason
that
we
are
working
closely
with
them
is
because
they
want
to
use
our
sensory
garden.
They
want
it
to
be
a
power.
H
The
thing
is,
though,
when
you
say
8
o'clock
they'll
turn
up
at
7
o'clock
tomorrow.
It's
always
that
well
just
go
a
bit
early
now
sit
outside.
So
the
thing
is
about
saying:
look
you're
not
coming
in
here
until
now,
I
think
nine
o'clock
took
so
far
these
more
than
adequate,
but
obviously
that's
whether
you
agree
or
not,
but
can.
A
I
Yes,
I'd
like
to
say
that
the
these
it
isn't
an
institution-
these
are
people's
home.
So
once
it's
built
there
won't
be
big
delivery
vans
coming
in
and
out
of
here,
because
it's
people's
homes
they'll
go
to
the
shops
to
buy
their
food
and
what
we
big
big
deliveries
of
anything
see.
We
don't
have
delivery
vans
coming
to
our
homes
now
in
the
50,
so
once
it's
built
its
its
people's
homes,
but.
L
Thank
You
cheer
I
got
a
little
bit
confused.
It's
a
bit
of
this
recall
in
paragraph
three
point
two
for
page
eighteen,
you
say
that
no
grant
funder
is
required,
since
the
development
will
replace
the
enhancing
will
Faust
trust
accommodation
which
you've
referred
to
earlier
disposable
disposal
of
which
provides
investment
for
this
proposed
scheme,
but
then
later
on,
it
says,
whilst
the
intention
of
the
trust
is
to
dispose
the
stock,
there
is
a
potential
to
retain
some
of
the
unit's,
so
I'm
just
wondering
about
the
viability
of
the
project.
L
I
We
work
in
really
hard,
so
we
self-sufficient,
but
the
other
points
of
that
is
we're
working
with
the
city
of
York
Council,
adult
and
social
care,
because
in
a
couple
of
our
houses
they
are,
they
would
be
alright
for
transitions
before
so
we're
trying
to
work
with
the
city
of
York
Council
on
what
their
needs
are
as
well
for
adult
social
care.
So
one
of
the
houses,
particularly
Hawthorne
spinning,
is
a
property
that
could
be
adapted
a
little
bit
further
for
transitions,
but
we're
working
with
them
on
that.
I
I
Yes
and
city
will
gain
it
well,
the
city
would
gain
and
we've
already
earmarked
from
the
the
Winterbourne
experience
that
there
are
some
people
sitting
out
in
the
wings
waiting
to
come
back
into
the
city
of
York
from
the
adult
and
social
care
and
that
actually
fits
our
criteria
being
visually
impaired
with
all
the
disabilities.
So
that's
why
there
is
an
extra
five
in
there.
L
M
That's
absolutely
fine,
because
it
was
one
of
the
issues
that
were
rare
was
raised
by
a
number
of
residents,
both
at
the
public
exhibition
and
afterwards.
Basically,
we
sought
assurances
from
the
trust
that
they
could
facilitate
that
access
at
one
time
it
was
being
looked
at
as
a
vehicle
access,
and
we
went
through
that
process.
They
provided
the
legal
documents
to
show
that
they
returned
the
right
of
access
who
that
route
and
any
physical
works
that
were
required
to
facilitate
that
as
well.
M
Obviously,
we're
not
proposing
a
vehicle
access,
probably
the
relief
of
a
lot
of
people
within
the
square,
but
we
will
be
you
know,
proposing
a
pedestrian
cycle
access
and
on
a
very
rare
okay
occurrence.
It
might
be
required.
Obviously,
emergency
vehicles
will
be
able
to
run
down
that
route
as
well.
That
would
only
be
in
the
scenario
of
course,
that
the
Grove
was
blocked,
which
is
the
primary
vehicle
access
and
we've
provided
that
to
the
to
the
case
officer.
M
N
Thank
You
chair
we've
heard
concerns
this
evening
from
certain
members
of
another
proximity
of
st.
Mary's
hospice
to
this
proposed
scheme.
Could
the
chief
executive
of
the
Wilberforce
Trust
give
us
a
flavor
of
the
sort
of
partnership
working
and
mutual
advantage
that
you'll
expect
again
between
yourselves
and
the
sent
letters?
Hospice
I
think
that's
an
important
consideration.
Thanks.
I
We've
had
lots
of
meetings
built
trustees,
both
sets
of
trustees
and
both
sets
of
senior
management,
and
what
we
would
end
visit
is
that
there
is
a
cafe
of
some
sort
in
area
where
the
people
can
come
from
st.
Leonard's
to
probably
have
a
bit
of
relief
time.
There'll
be
a
sensory
garden
where,
hopefully,
both
sets
of
people
can
use.
We've
talked
about
shared
back
office
services
in
terms
of
things
like
financial
services.
I
Could
we
could
we
work
together
on
that
for
the
benefit
of
the
people
that
use
both
services,
though
I
think
it's
more
about
a
community
feel
and
the
fact
that
there
will
be
a
sensory
garden,
there
will
be
a
cafe.
There
will
be
things
and
creating
a
community
as
opposed
to
building
30
flats
and
I.
Think
that's
really
what
I'm
trying
to
say
is
it's
really
important
that
it's
viewed
as
part
of
a
community?
I
What
and
what
they
said
to
me
is
there's
always
whenever
there's
any
construction
work
around
there,
when
it
was
the
square,
for
example,
and
they
were
building
the
square
houses,
there's
quite
a
lot
of
interesting.
What's
coming
and
going
sometimes
it's
apart
from
I,
understand
the
noise
issues,
but
it
gives
people
something
to
focus
on
as
well,
so
there
what
we've
had
lots
of
discussions
about
how
we
would
sensitively
be
looking
at
it
I
work
very
very
closely
with
the
chief
executive
of
st.
Leonard's
Martin
who's.
I
O
Thank
you,
chair
and
I
was
just
looking
at
the
plan
that
we
see
on
the
screen
there
and
just
trying
to
work
out
the
actual
distance
between
the
northern
corner
of
the
proposed
structure
and
then
its
hospice
itself,
which
looks
to
me
more
like
about
a
hundred
meters
rather
than
30s.
That
has
been
suggested.
Am
I
reading
off
from
the
plum
corrector.
M
A
M
Thank
you
jack,
and
you
just
heard
from
Philip
er
on
the
role
that
the
charity
plays
within
the
city,
the
pressing
need
to
upgrade
their
existing
housing
stock
and
the
opportunity
that
this
development
presents
to
improve
the
living
conditions
of
and
care
services
for
the
visually
impaired.
I
just
like
to
place
all
of
that
within
the
policy
context
provided
by
the
MPP
F
and
the
emerging
Local
Plan
in
past
versions
of
the
local
plan.
M
This
site
was
allocated
for
the
provision
of
65
market
houses,
but
it's
now
designated
for
specialist
hours
in
an
association
with
the
world
before
trust.
In
reaching
this
point,
the
site
undergone
various
stages
of
assessment
by
both
officers
and
members.
The
conclusion
being
that
was
acceptable
to
release
along
from
the
Greenbelt
the
site
is
surrounded
by
development
on
three
sides
and
at
the
site
visit
on
Tuesday.
We
saw
the
existing
housing
both
to
the
north
and
the
south
have
already
established
a
common
development
line
which,
further
to
the
east.
M
In
this
sense,
the
proposals
are
clear.
Rounding
off
of
the
urban
area.
Our
scheme
will
enable
large
parts
of
the
site
to
remain
as
open
space
preserve
the
existing
mature
trees
and
the
historic
region
for
our
and
limit
the
impact
of
the
development
on
the
surrounding
highway
network.
This
is
all
mainly
down
to
the
nature
of
the
user
would
not
necessarily
be
the
case
if
the
site
was
acquired
by
a
volume
house
builder.
M
M
It's
up
to
members
today
to
consider
the
balance
in
this
case
effectively
wearing
the
harm
caused
by
a
development
of
a
site
does
not
play
a
specific
Greenbelt
role
and
is
already
considered
to
be
suitable
for
development
in
the
emerging
local
plan,
against
all
the
benefits
of
providing
30
purpose-built
homes
for
the
visually
impaired,
which
includes
tenants
with
other
disabilities,
adjusting
an
identified
shortfall
of
affordable
specialist
housing
in
the
city.
Centralizing.
M
The
world
of
phosphorus
is
not
in
a
position
to
compete
with
other
developers
for
housing
sites
within
the
city,
but
the
fact
that
they
own
this
site
already
presents'
a
unique
opportunity
to
meet
a
current
and
very
pressing
need
for
this
type
of
accommodation
in
York.
The
application
is
recommended
for
approval
by
officers.
It's
also
supported
by
the
council's
Housing
and
Development
team,
and
at
the
public
exhibition
last
July.
The
scheme
was
generally
well
received
by
the
vast
majority
of
residents
that
lived
within
close
proximity
of
the
site.
C
What
you
just
said
about
the
fine
balance
with
the
Greenbelt
issue
and
given
what
it
says
in
condition
AIDS
about
the
landscapes
scheme
being
integral
to
the
amenity.
The
development
would
you'll,
be
quite
content
to
see
that
condition
strengthen
to
say.
The
landscaping
scheme
has
to
stay
for
the
lifetime
of
the
development
rather
than
just
the
five
years
and.
M
Well,
I
mean
the
difficulty
is
it
needs
change
over
time
and
obviously,
if
that,
in
that
scenario,
I
mean
there's
no
reason
why
we
want,
we
will
be
landscapes,
came
up
to
five
years.
You
know
this
is
it's
quite
a
complex
landscaping
scheme,
Philip
I'm
sure
he
became
to
keep
the
existing
trees
and
that
condition
wouldn't
fill
us
with
dread,
and
if
things
were
changing
over
time,
obviously
we
will
come
back
at
that
point.
What
other
stairs
there's
no
intention
to
alter
what
is
proposed
on
the
plan
today.
Wouldn't
they
thank
us
for
that.
I'd.
I
Like
to
just
say
and
I'd
find
that
a
bit
difficult
because
sit
Leonard's
may
want
to
expand
in
the
future
and
have
already
a
sort
of
said
that,
but
it
depends
where
they
can
go
so
to
suddenly
put
a
lifetime
off
of
not
doing
something.
I
wouldn't
want
to
see
it
ever
change
from
a
sensory
garden
for
my
purposes
because
for
Wilberforce
Trust
we
would
want
a
sensory
garden
for
our
people.
Well,.
M
In
the
scenario
that
we
were
looking
at
any
other
expansions,
obviously
we've
sure
on
provision
on
the
plan,
the
second
phase
of
the
development
for
that
reason
that
we
weren't
accused
of
coming
forward
with
a
small
scheme,
and
then
you
know
enlarging
it
in
the
future.
If,
for
instance,
we
were
a
community,
there
was
an
expansion
of
central
London's
Hospice
proposed
that
application
would
just
sit
side
by
side
with
a
section
73
to
this
year.
I
didn't.
M
C
Vary
the
terms
of
that,
if
it
wasn't
on
for
the
lifetime
in
theory,
you
could
do
what
you
wanted
after
five
years.
Anything
that
was
planted
could
be
removed
quite
legally,
and
it
does
happen
again.
That's
why
I'd
like
to
see
for
the
lifetime
of
the
development
and
if
you
wish
to
make
any
changes,
you
would
have
to
come
back
to
the
local
authority
for
approval
I
mean.
M
A
H
You
yeah
you've
heard
me
stay
at
about
times.
Would
you
accept
a
time
frame
from
nine
till
five
for
deliveries
and
working
on
site
deliveries
of
goods
and
taking
items
away,
etcetera.
Two
reasons
one
is:
is
the
immunities
of
the
people
in
the
building
they
buy,
but
also?
The
fact
is:
there
are
a
lot
of
young
families
in
those
houses
there,
but
remember
you're
going
to
be
driving
down
there.
So
I'd
like
to
see
some
sort
of
agreement
that
says
you
are
going
to
be
driving
around
when
young,
kids
and
stuff
for
going
to
school.
M
Yeah
then,
the
day
you
know,
if
members
feel
at
us
a
requirement,
a
condition
that
is
required
to
make
this
devant
acceptable
and
obviously
that's
a
subject
for
the
debate.
From
our
perspective,
just
thinking
about
Phillip
timescales
of
development,
we
don't
overly
restrict
ourselves,
you
know,
there's
no
discussion
has
been
had
with
who
who
would
eventually
rule
this
scheme,
and
that
is
something
that
we'll
be
committing
to
in
advance
of
an
event.
M
L
I
Absolutely
not,
we
will
be
transitioning
and
we
will
work
with
the
transitions
team
and
how
we
do
that
every
tenant
will
have
to
be
orientated.
For
a
start.
He
can't
just
suddenly
say
he's
a
new
flat
you'd
be
moving
on.
Tuesday
we'd
probably
have
to
build
a
shelf
like
to
start
with,
so
that
the
rehabilitation
team
can
take
people
on
keep
going
backwards
and
forward,
so
they
can
orientate
round
their
own.
What
would
be
their
own
flats
in
the
in
the
bill
because
most
of
them
are
a
same
build.
I
I
I
We
we
settled
on
30,
working
with
adult
and
Social
Care,
actually
and-
and
we
knew
that
there
were
already
some
out
in
the
wings
and
and
and
that's
how
we
started
to
it,
but
we
also
have
a
financial
restraint
work
out.
Suddenly,
you
know
build
60
I'd
love
to
build
six
too,
and
we
probably
could
have
the
capacity
for
60,
but
unfortunately
I
don't
have
the
funds
to
do
that.
So
we
have
to
take
it
step
by
step,
so
I
would
anticipate.
I
M
P
P
A
F
I'm
happy
to
second
this,
a
lot
of
what's
being
discussed
today
was
cleared
up
on
the
site
visit
yesterday
and
I
would
just
like
to
comment
on
a
couple
of
things.
Much
has
been
made
about.
The
delivery
are
after
the
development
to
being
completely,
in
other
words,
was
access
to
the
residents
in
essence,
at
the
home,
not
the
home
of
the
accommodation.
One
wonders:
how
are
you
going
to
control
with
these
Tesco's
deliver
their
groceries
at
a
six
on
evening
or
the
bank
holiday
I
happen
to
know.
F
In
my
neck
of
the
woods,
I
don't
Melissa.
The
waste
collection
is
collected
on
a
bank
holiday.
You
know
at
the
end
of
the
day,
this
is
in
essence,
going
to
be
filled
by
private
residents.
Tenants
of
the
trust
and
I
personally
I
can't
even
see
the
conditions
that
put
in
there
and
much
use
because
it
basically
said
how
are
you
going
to
control
a
resident
having
his
delivery
of
groceries
from
Tesco's
after
at
six
o'clock
of
an
evening
or
a
furniture
being
delivered
after
six
o'clock
and
I
said
to
chair
or
piano
or
whatever?
F
So,
quite
frankly,
I
don't
see
a
lot
of
point
enough
anywhere,
but
to
accept
to
a
change.
It
is
ridiculous
on
the
issue
of
drainage
I'm,
not
sure
in
all
honesty
that
that
piece
of
Lunt
composition
comes
into
the
internal
drainage
board,
because
of
course
the
a64
embankment
runs
on
the
bottom
side
and
I.
Don't
think
it
does.
F
The
landscaping
that's
really
going
to
be
affected
is
only
in
in
the
building
area
and
I
can't
get
excited
about
that.
I
personally,
think
it's
a
pretty
good
site
and
it's
a
gonna
be
an
excellent
asset
to
the
city
and
certainly
for
the
people
who
are
in
need
of
this
kind
of
accommodation
and
ibooks
pleasure
is
seconding.
The
proposal
to
approve
the
mission
according
to
the
officers
recommendations
are.
F
I,
don't
know
how
its
good,
quite
frankly,
I
can't
see
how
so
because
those
are
conditions
that
are
being
put
on
30.
Is
it
30
residents
not
just
on
one
company?
It's
been
difficult
on
30
resin
and,
quite
frankly,
there's
no
red
there's
no
conditions
on
when
people
can
deliver
stuff
to
my
house
or
your
house.
They
can
deliver
24.
F
B
Yes,
chair,
we've
looked
at
the
internal
drainage
board
boundaries
and
it
doesn't
fall
within
either.
The
use
the
ASD
sites
or
city
use
is
the
other
side
of
the
river
and
the
ainst
is
further
south
and
west
as
well.
So
that's
why
the
internal
drainage,
bird
weren't
consulted
it's
not
within
their
area,
but
their
strategic
flood
risk
Authority
and
he
or
she
were
to
work
on.
P
O
It's
Hospice,
because
otherwise
you're
not
going
to
be
in
a
position
to
judge
encroachment
on
the
green
belt
from
those
three
aspects
and
look
at
the
south
side
of
the
development,
and
you
have
the
Grove
Chesham,
whatever
it's
called,
and
the
college,
which
extends
much
further
to
the
southeast
than
is
indicated
on
this
diagram
to
the
north.
The
housing
development
to
the
north.
So
in
terms
of
three
of
the
restrictions
imposed
by
a
green
belt
position,
I
think
those
three
really
don't
count
in
terms
of
this,
this
particular
piece.
O
So
the
question
is
the
question
of:
is
there
a
sufficient
case
to
actually
promote
development
in
the
green
belt?
Give
them
their
very
special
circumstances
and
I
would
say
imbalance.
Yes,
there
is
a
need
for
this
provision
across
the
city
rationalizing
it
to
to
provide
both
if
you
are
aggregated
accommodation
and
office.
Facilities
for
the
operation
of
the
organization
in
the
same
place
is,
in
my
view,
a
very
rational
thing
to
do
and
doesn't
really
come
contradict
what
the
green
belt
is
about
and
given
than
what
I've
just
been
saying
about.
O
The
lack
of
openness
in
this
particular
section
generally
in
terms
of
landscaping
I
would
prefer
to
see
around
Council
of
waters.
The
landscaping
be
there
for
the
lifetime
of
the
development
and,
if
other
planning,
if
other
developments
are
proposed
in
the
future,
then
they
would
need
planning
consent
anyway,
and
that
is
the
appropriate
time
to
change.
Such
a
landscaping
scheme,
so
I
would
go
along
with
with
the
council
of
waters
are
unusually
on
this.
Thank
you.
Cancer.
N
N
Moreover,
this
particular
site
is
has
got
inherent
advantages
for
the
sort
of
use
proposed,
given
that
it's
in
close
proximity
to
something
as
hospice,
and
there
is
going
to
be
a
lot
of
shared
work,
I
think
the
development,
despite
some
of
the
concerns
expressed
by
other
members,
will
be
responsibly
managed.
It
will
be
directly
contracted
by
the
Wilberforce
Trust
and
provided
they
exercise
good
project
management.
N
I,
don't
see
any
problem
with
that
and
I'm
happy
to
accept
the
assurances
of
the
applicant
on
that
point
that
it
will
be
run
in
the
spirit
of
partnership
and
joint
working
with
sent
letters
hospice
for
all
those
reasons.
I
agree
with
the
previous
three
speakers
and
I
believe.
If
this
proposal
should
be
granted
permission
council.
C
You,
chair
and
I'd
like
to
approve
this
I
want
to
approve
it,
but
a
shadow
unless
condition
eight
is
strengthened
and
it's
perfectly
reasonable.
It's
perfectly
justified,
I
think
if
you
go
on
to
paragraph
four
point
so
far
on
page
27,
that
gives
you
a
reason
with
the
MPP
F
I.
Think
if
you
further
go
to
paragraph
four
point,
two:
seven,
where
it
talks
of
loss
of
priority
habitat
and
the
mitigation
as
part
of
that
is
by
a
new
tree
planting.
Well,
it
would
add
Libby
mitigation.
C
If
those
new
trees
come
out
after
five
years,
which,
quite
legitimately
they
could
do.
And
then,
if
you
went
to
paragraph
four
point,
two
nine
identify
down
to
biodiversity,
the
hams
could
be
mitigated
by
condition
only
for
five
years.
If
you're,
not
careful.
Now
it
shouldn't
cause
problems
in
the
futuristic
onslaught
of
persons
quite
rightly
said.
If
they
need
to
come
back
with
something
it
has
to
come
back
to
the
local
authority,
you
retain
in
control
of
the
landscape,
which
is
integral
to
this
D
element,
which
stated
a
couple
of
times
and
this
agenda.
C
E
The
issue
is
whether
or
not
special
circumstances
are
demonstrated
for
what
is
Greenbelt
weather
on
audits.
The
significance
of
that
is
debated.
It
is
Greenbelt
and
therefore
special
circumstances
need
to
be
demonstrated.
I
think
what
we've
heard
this
afternoon
does
demonstrate
such
very
special
circumstances.
The
fact
that
the
Wilberforce
Trust
owned
this
plot
of
land
and
probably
couldn't
afford
to
purchase
elsewhere,
but
in
particular
one
line
which
I
think
is
absolutely
crucial
here-
is
that
line
in
for
fire
57
on
page
34
referred
to
earlier.
E
The
existing
provision
of
the
trust
within
the
community
does
not
meet
central
government
policies
to
promote
independent
living
and
care
services
to
meet
the
needs
of
individuals.
I
think
that
is
crucial
and
clearly
the
mutual
benefits
of
working
with
the
hospice
and
what
the
hospice
will
gain
access
to
various
facilities
to
the
sensory
garden
and
not
least,
the
additional
car
parking
our
factors
which
could
only
apply
to
this
site
and
could
not
possibly
apply
to
any
other,
and
so
I
think
the
cases
is
quite
convincing,
cube.
G
So
I
support
the
general
principle
as
its
office
being
a
proof
of
very
special
circumstances.
I
would
like
to
see
the
standard
clause
about
the
drainage
being
attenuated
I
think
we
normally
have
some
days
it's
something
like
70%
of
agricultural
runoff
rate
applied
so
that,
well,
obviously,
that's
open
to
the
applicants
is
to
work
with
us
through
what
means
they
used
to
do
that
when
it's
green
roofs
or
tanks
or
whatever.
G
Just
because
this
is
a
greenfield
site,
and
we
need
to
ensure
that
what
we
do
whatever
is
possible
to
reduce
runoff
wherever
we're
developing
greenfield
site
because
of
the
knock-on
effect
for
those
further
downstream
from
this
development.
So
I
won't
see
that
condition
in
the
other
point
which
I
made
earlier
and
I
think
I
would
like
to
see
something
about,
or
it's
a
step.
Safety
assessment
of
the
junction
with
the
Grove
and
and
Road
just
be
looked
at
because
I'm
I'm
aware
that
the
cycle
lane
markings
along
there
do
get
very
warned.
G
A
Q
Thank
you,
chair
and
I
just
want
to
say
that
I
welcome
the
application.
I
think
it
could
be
a
really
positive
development.
It
meets
the
special
circumstances
required
in
my
view,
and
it
could
be
something
which
the
trust
and
the
city
itself
could
be
quite
proud
of
if
it
was
so
get
up
and
running
and
I
just
like
to
lend
my
support
to
council
water
suggestion
of
the
lifetime
aspect
of
the
landscaping
scheme.
Five
years
isn't
a
very
long
time
and
a
lifetime
is
a
long
time
and
I.
H
You,
chair
I
will
concede
the
delivery
thing
Cottle
Camus,
lo
Galvin,
and
these
prop
engine
things.
However,
given
the
fact
that
there
are
a
lot
of
families
in
that
area,
I
still
think
that
deliveries
during
construction
because
of
the
size
of
the
construction
and
the
amounts
of
materials
that
are
going
to
be
taken
away,
they
should
not
be
any
deliveries,
etc.
It
can
be
very
easily
controlled
during
the
day
too.
It's
a
big
enough
site
to
stockpile
materials
of
things
and
I.
Think
on
that
side
of
it.
H
Each
should
be
restricted
between
nine
and
five.
As
we
gas
to
the
runoff
rates,
I
will
stick
money
up
and
say:
I
believed
that
that
system
of
that
network
of
fields
just
run
into
a
drainage
board
area
and
as
such
is
an
issue,
and
they
feel
you
go
around
saying
we're.
Gonna
put
this
into
your
system.
H
It
is
a
big
something
it
just
sits
there
and
then
we're
going
to
drain
it
into
the
mains
I
welcome
and
a
new
center,
where
we
can
provide
independent
care
for
those
people
of
this
city
that
require
it
I'm,
not
against
the
development,
to
the
point
that
I
would
say:
I
don't
like
heat
and
I'm,
not
gonna.
Have
it
I
I'm
dubious
about
the
fact
that
we
have
stood
here
and
studies
in
the
green
belt
and
said
that
special
circumstances
have
to
be
sure
on
balance.
H
I
will
go
with
it,
but
I
will
support
Council
of
waters.
Point
in
that
we
have
had
other
applications
where
we've
given
permission
for
one
piece
of
the
area
to
be
developed,
but
the
rest
of
the
area
has
been
conditioned
so
that
nothing
can
be
changed
and
I
think
for
the
lifetime
of
that
site.
We
should
control
it,
given
the
fact
that
it
is
in
the
green
belt.
H
L
Thank
You
chair
other
speakers
of
with
far
more
experience
than
me
have
explained
why
they
believe
that
special
circumstances
have
been
there.
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
I
think
this
is
a
fantastic
scheme.
I
think
it's
much
needed
in
the
city
and
I
was
very
struck
by
the
passion
that
the
CEO
described
about
building
a
community,
the
facilities,
I
think
are
going
to
be
exceptional.
I
think
it
will
make
a
huge
difference
to
the
residents
and
the
affordable
flats
element.
I
think
is
also
to
be
welcome.
A
Right,
nobody
else
has
indicated
if
the
office
has
got
any
comments
about,
what's
been
raised,
the
need
for
a
safety
audit
of
the
junction
of
the
Grove
and
Turkish
to
Road
and
what
condition
if
members
wanted
it,
what
condition
that
we
need
to
put
on
for
surface
water
drainage?
Have
we
got
to
put
on
70
percent.
B
The
can
be
a
standard,
surface,
water,
drainage
condition
to
replace
I,
think
it
was
conditioned
12
that
usually
has
notes
attached
to
it.
That
would
meet
the
requirements.
Usually
we
would
get
the
conditions
from
the
flood
risk
management.
Team
they've
obviously
supported
the
conditions
requested
by
yorkshire
water,
but
can
certainly
provide
a
condition
that
covers
the
fact
it's
a
greenfield
site
and
the
need
for
attenuated
or
enough.
A
B
You're
thinking
yeah
the
response
from
the
the
highways
management
team
because
it
had
been
raised
by
residents
on
the
Grove,
in
particular
about
the
the
concerns
that
they
had
the
junction
of
the
Grove
and
todd
castro
they
did.
I
did
ask
them
to
specifically
look
at
that
point
and
the
comments
back
didn't
highlight
any
registered
personal
injury
accidents
that
they
could
attribute
to
the
turning
in
and
out
from
the
cul-de-sac,
so
I
think.
There's
officers
not
quite
sure
how
we
could
require
this
safety,
or
it
was
normal
safety
odd.
B
It's
obviously
certainly
passed
back
to
the
Highway
Authority
that
there's
a
potential
concern
that
members
have
raised
about
the
the
connection
at
that
Junction,
particularly
with
regards
to
where
cyclists
and
the
cycle
lane
and
I'm
just
not
sure
that
it
would
be
a
justified
condition
to
this
actual
application
to
require
the
applicant
to
pay
for
additional
works
at
that
Junction.
When
it's
not
been
identified
by
the
Highways
Authority
is
required.
R
Yes,
there
just
a
couple
of
things:
I
wanted
to
bring
two
members
attention
during
the
course
of
the
debate.
A
few
of
you
mentioned
that,
on
balance,
you
felt
that
were
very
special
circumstances,
so
I
just
want
to
remind
you
that
we're
its
Greenbelt.
The
legal
test
is
that
the
very
special
circumstances
must
clearly
outweigh
any
harm
to
the
Greenbelt
in
any
other
harms.
So
I
just
wanted
you
to
be
aware
of
that
legal
test.
R
Before
you
take
any
decision,
and
also
perhaps
to
read
to
you,
the
legal
tests
for
conditions
as
well
when
you're,
considering
which
conditions
to
put
on,
is
that
planning
conditions
should
only
be
imposed
where
they're
necessary,
relevant
to
planning
and
to
the
development
to
be
permitted,
enforceable,
precise
and
reasonable
in
all
of
the
respects.
So
I
just
wanted
you
two
to
have
chapter
and
verse
bear
before
you
vote.
Okay,.
A
I'll
just
make
a
few
comments,
so
it's
in
my
in
my
patch
and
when
the
original
suggestion
was
that
this
land
could
be
used
for
housing.
There
was
quite
a
lot
of
concern
in
the
area,
but
for
general
housing
I
for
a
whole
variety
of
reasons,
but
I
understand,
I
haven't
been
involved
because
mother
walk
count.
My
other
wall
colleagues
went
to
the
consultations
and
things
that
clearly
residents
in
the
area
are
actually
quite
supportive
of
this.
This
plan,
so
the
I
know
we're
not
here:
it's
not
not.
The
court
of.
A
Public
perception,
but
I
do
think
there
is.
There
is
less
concern,
and
indeed
positive
support
for
this.
This
development
on
the
issue
of
ours
would
remind
members
that
the
hospice
itself
has
extended
in
recent
years
and
obviously
has
had
to
do
the
work
around
its
patients,
but
also
the
square
has
been
built
and
that's
quite
close
to
the
hospice
and
the
revival.
Development
on
the
old
college
site
has
been
built
actually
close
to
some
of
those
properties
in
both
that
both
of
those
building
operations,
I
person
is
a
war.
A
Counselor
didn't
get
any
complaints
from
the
hospice
about
noise
and
and
out
of
I
was
working
or
anything
like
that.
So
I
I
mean
I
know
it's
an
issue
in
some
areas
with
some
particular
developers,
but
I
think
that
a
developers
who
are
building
close
to
to
current
facilities
like
the
hospice,
would
generally
be
thoughtful
of
what
they're
doing
so.
I
personally,
don't
have
a
problem
with
the
hours
in
the
report.
A
A
Obviously,
we've
had
it
moved
and
seconded
with
the
can,
with
the
conditions
on
the
second
page
of
the
sheet
plus
the
surface
water,
drainage
condition.
I
think
the
two
that
are
outstanding
are
the
hours
and
the
landscaping
I've
made
my
comments
about
the
hours.
So
would
we
wish
to
decide
on
whether
or
not
we
wish
to
change
the
hours
at
this
stage?.
D
The
the
condition
was
requested
by
colleagues
in
public
protection-
I
am
mad
second
guessing
I,
assumed
because
of
the
office
relevance
and
the
the
cafe
elements
and
in
on
reflection,
I'm,
not
sure
it's
a
necessary
condition
for
the
reasons.
Firstly,
for
the
reasons
you've
you've
set
out
that
the
vast
majority
of
it
is
individual
flats,
and
so
it's
not
and
secondly,
the
offices
are
probably
going
to
be
serviced
during
the
Working
Day
and
the
cafes,
such
as
smaller
elements,
so.
K
J
A
K
A
Okay
right,
it
has
been
moved
and
seconded.
Some
people
have
made
some
country
points.
Can
we
take
a
vote
on
whether
or
not
it's
been
moved
that
we
remove
condition
16?
Who
can
you
please
show
if
you,
if
you
agree
with
removing
condition
16
any
against
one
that
is
approved,
so
therefore,
we
will
remove
condition
16
right.
R
A
A
A
Six,
seven,
that's
eight,
so
that
what
condition
will
remain
the
same?
Okay
right
so
I
think
that's
covered
everything.
So
it's
been
moved
and
seconded
then
that
we
approve,
subject
to
the
106
agreement,
a
subject
to
refer
to
the
Secretary
of
State,
because
it's
green,
an
application
with
the
additional
conditions
outlined
on
the
sheet
about
highways
and
means
an
enclosure
plus
a
serf
extra
surface,
water,
drainage
condition,
condition
16
and
that's
it.
So
all.
A
Right
councillor,
Richardson:
no,
no
he's
talking
construction
hours,
condition
14!
Do
we
wish
to
amend
the
hours
of
construction
work?
No
right,
that's
generally,
as
been
proposed
by
council
Richardson.
Was
there
a
seconder,
councilor
waters?
In
that
case,
we'll
take
a
vote.
Do
we
wish
to
amend
to
reduce
the
construction
hours
to
nine
o'clock
to
five
o'clock,
all
those
in
favor
of
that
proposal,
all
those
against.
A
Everybody
else,
except
for
right,
so
that
is
not
amended.
Okay,
so
with
that,
can
we
move
to
the
vote,
then
all
those
in
favor
of
what
I've
just
outlined-
I'm
not
going
through
it
again.
Please
show
right
any
against
one,
so
that
is
approved
almost
unanimously.
So
thank
you
very
much.
Everybody
I
have
no
urgent
business,
so
I
declare
the
meeting
closed
at
twenty
five
six.
Thank
you
very
much.