Cloud Foundry CF on K8s Forum, 8 Feb 2022

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From YouTube: CF On K8s WG Forum [Feb 8 2022]

Description

Contents of the call:
Project Name?
follow up re: CFF Governing Board presentation Feb 23
Proposal Updates? https://github.com/orgs/cloudfoundry/projects/14

A

Cool all right so uh welcome everyone to the uh cf on kate's working group form. I have pasted a link to the document in the chat I'll do that again for anyone else. That's joining.

A

I add topics in there that you like to discuss and you can also paste them into chat and I can have them in, but we'll just take a few minutes to allow people to add entries and we'll get started on discussing anything. And then we can sort of have a open floor and go from there.

A

A

A

All right looks like it's slowing down a little bit on adding topics but feel free to add them. If you think of anything as we go on so let's just get started with the first one project name: question mark.

B

Yeah eric and I were chatting last week and um yeah, especially given the cf for cates and cf on kate's kind of similarity there. I thought it would be good to start maybe brainstorming for what a new cloud foundry on kubernetes project could be called once it's you know promoted, um which is probably going to be fairly soon.

B

So I did. We started a just sort of brainstorming, doc, um I'll drop that in the chat and I'll put it also in the.

B

In the notes here, um yeah and obviously um you know like you all- to sort of uh take the lead on brainstorming and um narrowing down this list. Maybe then the toc could have some input and then maybe the governing board as well, since this will be kind of a major thing that I think is promoted this year. So yeah a lot of different things. It could be called um definitely curious as to what you all might think.

B

um Most of the topics on this list are, you know silly, but um that's what brainstorming is like um yeah, so um yeah just curious what you all might be, if you all have thought about this much already or um how you want to approach, maybe reaching a final name for this.

A

I think we're pretty much in just the brainstorming phase yeah. I haven't really thought about the mechanics of actually whittling it down and arriving on a name, but I assume we'll probably have a few that we think sound decent and then maybe gather feedback drop it in some uh slack channel or something and sort of see what resonates with people maybe put up a poll, something to that effect.

A

um I'm just kind of guessing here. As I said, we haven't really uh discussed it too much right, um but then we'd also need to think about uh with the name of a project. Do we want to realign the repo with that right? Now? It's you know called see if kate's controllers, we want to rename the repo.

C

Or just point it.

A

At that repo and say hey the project name is this, but um so there's also some mechanical bits that we probably need to figure out for sure.

B

Yeah I mean, I would say, there's there's there's a bit of a some urgency here. Only in that once the the initial um release is cut, you know we'll want to promote this pretty quickly and we should have a name by then, so you wouldn't want to hold up a release because of the name. On the other hand, naming things is difficult and you know somewhat important, so um you know uh yeah definitely looking forward to seeing what everyone thinks.

A

uh Certainly could promote it as one of the topics for the next meeting in two weeks to like actually put a word out there saying like hey here's, the document, here's a bunch of names we would like to settle on something. Please come help us figure that out.

B

Yeah, if you know if in two weeks we have a short list, I think that's great.

A

Cool anyone else have thoughts. I.

D

I was wondering who's like if we want to do some sort of voting. Do we want this to be a vote open to everyone? Do we want this to be open only to the contributors, and how do we achieve that? Yes, we could use github because I'll get up like I can see who's voted, so I can just exclude the votes from people. I don't recognize or slack or something like that, but yeah we do need a shortly like even getting to the shortlist is tricky or unless we vote on the long list. Instead.

D

And let the good stuff just bubble up like I expect that, like a few proposals would just bubble up or there is the risk that the votes go completely diluted and then that's a problem. We don't want something to win by three votes versus two or something.

B

Tricky stuff democracy, yeah yeah- I mean you know for the next few days or, however long I think people could just keep adding to the list. Just keep brainstorming thinking about it, taking inspiration from. What's there already coming up with something totally new, um and then we could do kind of a you know, you put a star something next to a repository next to it. Next to a title, if you, if you like that and then anything that's got a star next to it: okay, well that probably cuts out half of them.

B

Half of them won't get stars whatever and then um try and figure out some way to get down to. You know a manageable list of five or whatever, um and then I'm not sure about the final process there, but.

A

Yeah one one initial pass probably would be looking at the list of names and figuring out what is easily pronounceable, because it's if it's difficult to pronounce, it's probably going to be not something. People want to talk about.

D

Yeah, it needs to be easy to google as well, and I would assume also it needs to be different from anything. That's already been used.

D

Yeah, like there's many projects who actually reuse names and it's annoying and we should avoid it. But.

C

There's also so many names.

D

E

I mean: are there any on this list that we feel like we could make a case for just striking out to kind of winnow as we go instead of getting a list of you know, 500 candidates and then having to sift through those.

B

I mean I put cf through kate's on there as a joke, so I'll just delete that.

E

We could we could have a section for like rejected ones rejects. Please don't raise these again. These are tombstoned like.

D

I I'm pretty sure there is at least a dozen software projects named after a variation of of the word pegasus like it's.

A

D

Name yeah: that's.

F

One of the more interesting.

D

I've seen at least a griffin right, I don't know if it's in the cloud native space, but I've definitely seen a griffin. Oh there's also a brand called griffin, I think uh the other ones they all look great. A scala.

C

D

Exactly like the program yeah, we can strike.

B

That one, because it's going to be yeah and.

D

Scopilos sounds exactly like scorpio, which is another container related tool for container images. I think from google uh spork is some sort of java testing framework. Maybe no uh it's a groovy testing framework yeah, so like yeah. Some of those can just go because they're just very easy to hurt me, but I think it's trademarked, so any greek gods will have been used at least six times each.

E

How about we just strike through any entries on the list that um we think are not going to be good candidates uh just to mark them as tombstone, so they don't come up again like oh, did you think about it? Yeah we thought about it and deleted it.

E

I would say, maybe not hippocampus. um I think it's command shift x in google docs, I would say hippocampus I mean it's a common, it's a well-known part of the brain, so maybe not that it's also long.

A

um I think didn't see dennis in here before I think uh dennis jumped in the middle of our discussion, so just to bring up the speed if anyone else joined up as well we're talking about first topic, which is project naming. We would like to move.

C

A

That is a little more catchy pronounceable discussable than cf kate's controllers. um So that is what we're talking about right now is how do we actually arrive at a name, brainstorming.

D

Is the list available somewhere.

A

Yes, it's a google document that I believe chris dropped.

D

A

Sorry guys, okay, thank you all good.

A

So it's got a bunch of stuff on it. Right now feel free to throw things in did.

D

A

Zero dawn the horizons on it. I did not, despite my enthusiasm, I did not, so I guess I could go through the various sub components there of the ai, which would probably actually some of it would be. This list.

A

A

I'm liking that we're already making some movement on this list whittling it down.

A

All right, if we don't have more discussion on that at the moment, then we should probably move along to the next topic, uh but feel free to look at the document later. Make some additions comments all that stuff.

A

So next topic on the list is a follow-up regarding the cloud foundry foundation governing board presentation on february 23rd.

B

Yeah, I just wanted to see if we knew who might want to give that I think one or two people would be. You know appropriate. um It's it's two weeks from tomorrow um and yeah. It's this just gonna be the the governing board, which is four people myself and ram. um You know so you know informal as far as governing boards go, uh but you know it'll be nice for them to get a glimpse of what things are.

B

Looking like right now um at that point, if we have a short list of names that would be nice to let them know what those are as well. Maybe they have some input um so yeah. I just wanted to know if I knew who who that might be so I can get them an invite to the meeting or whatnot.

A

I don't think we've completely settled on that yet, but we can probably make a choice pretty quickly. I don't think that'll be yeah.

B

Just let me know it's not not urgent, but if you can, let me know by next week or something so I can get that invite squared away and connect with whoever that's going to be cool. I think.

A

That sounds totally reasonable. We can do that. I think we already have like a generalized idea of a couple people that would be willing to do it so.

B

Excellent. Thank you.

E

I mean I think, by default. It's probably the working group leads unless those are the folks that really want to do it.

D

Yeah we haven't talked about it, I'm happy to do it. uh Maybe I don't have as much context as other people uh on the things that are not authentication, but I can. I think I can put up something if, uh if it's necessary, so if there's people who are keen to do it, then I think I'm still happy to join the meeting. But if someone wants to give the presentation, someone else wants to give it a presentation. It can also be done.

A

uh Tentatively, we could probably say uh one person from the european time zone. One person from american time zone probably would be a good mix, but we can discuss further.

D

E

A

So yeah we'll uh I'll, put a note down to make sure that we get you that information by next week uh and then moving along. We have a proposal updates question mark with a link to the github project.

F

Yeah yeah- I put this on here because I I felt like last time we had talked about wanting to make it a routine that we reviewed these, at least with the group. um So I really, I didn't, have any particular questions myself, but I want to put this out here because I think we've got a proposal sitting out there in review as well, as I think one coming up in draft and I wasn't sure if anybody was interested in and looking at those and talking through them.

F

uh So I figured I'd put this on here as a as a spot for anybody who wanted to so.

D

I think we've added one about the testing style, so the it's mostly about how we like the ginkgo or gingko test suites to be written like because there's many ways to do it, but we have like a specific style that we like. So we put it out there so that if everyone agrees, we can all converge on some sort of style that so that all our tests kind of look the same. I see it's still in the draft. I know there is a. I think it was.

D

um My yogi were working on it, so I don't know if it's ready to review.

C

It it is, I think we collected some feedback in our time zone, but we were also curious, like it's a starting point, so we'd like to start a conversation, uh maybe I should change to another column like basically change the status yeah.

D

And try and just drag it under under review I'll. Do it now? Okay,.

C

Yeah just do it, maybe that explains why uh we got some eye emojis, but no comments, but my plan was to pretty much raise it next week, so that people have time to look at it. Put some comments.

C

And I guess also the plan is to have one more about so this one is just about testing style like how to write the code, whether like what to do what to avoid doing uh and the other one will be one about how to structure the test suite. It will be probably a harder one. So we started with the low hanging fruit, but I guess we should sync with mud next week. Some point before for drafting that one.

A

G

And for what it's worth, matt mentioned it it's on his radar. He was out like pretty sick last week, but yesterday he mentioned um he'd be thinking about it. This week.

A

Yeah and if it's you know ready for review, we can also drop it in slack to see if anyone else that's not on this call or in direct contact.

C

A

Us frequently has any thoughts, but uh just as that's.

C

What I did actually, I did drop it on slack, but I forgot to drag it. I guess to the proper column.

A

Cool yeah, then uh I'll definitely take a look at this. I like as an initial glance I like to see a bunch of examples, so I actually know a little bit more visually what's going on so that looks good I'll. Just have to take a look through it.

D

The oopsie proposal it's been there for a while do we feel like it's been approved, like I think I've read it and now that some comment do we want more some more comments? Do we want to prod people again to read it?

D

G

I think it's a problem with no one is assigned to be a formal approver, because it's like this one has been out there for like over a month now, it's actually underway in development, and it's gotten a significant amount of like commentary and feedback that we've adopted in it so, like, I think, it's like informally approved, but we we just need um folks to like say this.

G

um One thing I was actually thinking about is: I saw that google docs has a new feature where you can like assign approvers and like they can like use the google doc like interface to prove and stuff, I'm wondering, maybe if we could like figure out a way to like figure out a subset of people that are like the final approvers or whatever for for new proposals at least.

D

Yeah, that makes sense, because I think this was what happened with pretty much every other proposal. Until one day I literally went through all of them, and I was like okay. This is already implemented, so it's been approved just de facto, and this also this as well. This we've rejected a long time ago and I just dragged them all into either approved or rejected, uh and it's happening again with this.

D

It's like oh everyone, comments, but no one wants to take the responsibility to change it, to change the status to approve, but now that we're already implementing it we might as well. Do it like it's effectively been approved by the fact that it's been already worked on, so we can just approve it in the future yeah it might make sense to. If there is features in google docs that allow us to assign it to people, then we could do it.

D

We just pick someone who, like reviews, all the feedback and decides okay, there is agreement thick.

A

Cool that sounds good and uh thank you for the aforementioned hygiene of cleaning up all the stuff up. um Obviously someone had to get it done. So thanks for doing that um so yeah. Let's uh look through these proposals and try to walk the walk and make sure we either approve them or reject them or move it along.

D

A

D

So I'm gonna, I'm gonna, do it with for this right, I'm just going to.

A

A

A

All righty well that brings us to the end of the topics list we have for today, but we do have some interesting things to think about to carry over for the next week, but I'm going to open the floor at this point. If anyone has any last-minute thoughts that they want to throw in those topics or just commentary or say hi, if you haven't been here before or whatever you feel like.

B

Just a minor follow-up from last week there were those six irini repositories that were keen to move over to cloud foundry. um I forget exactly how we left that at the last meeting um was I supposed to follow up with someone someone's supposed to follow up with me.

D

So we took a look at them and they're, basically, all repositories that we do need to keep uh arena alive, like both the arena controller, which is the one that is consumed by our shim, but also the old irini.

D

Incarnation, which was the one that was uh communicating with the cloud controller in the old cfocates, uh so the answer is we need this repositories around as long as we need suffocates around. Basically, because I don't know, what's what we have decided for cfo cates, but they should just follow the same fate like if we decide to get rid of the cfk stuff, then that stuff can go with it most of it at least like as long as we need suffocates around.

D

I guess we need those repositories, because, just in case we want to, I don't know, fix a bug or whatever ci is there and the code base is there and everything? Is there.

B

Okay cool, um so I could um open a pull request to have those officially added to the work group charter and then like. I can go ahead and transfer those over any time.

D

Is is cfo, it's part of the working group charter.

B

Oh, that's a good question. Yes,.

D

Because, like again like, if it's, if it's not or if it's part of a different working group, then most.

C

D

There yeah, uh I guess, irene, so there is the unicontroller and I guess some stuff is shared between controller and not controller. So it's a bit tricky. The boundary is not super clear, uh but yeah. Most of those repositories only make sense for the old cia for kate's version of ellini.

C

D

So they should probably be sitting next to cfk. It's, although yeah, I don't know which working group they are under now and which people are maintaining them. If they're being maintained.

C

They actually need to bring staging during home release even for cf for gates.

D

uh Then we we could re. Maybe there is stuff that we can get rid of. I think korean.

C

Staging was only being used by cube cf and it's dead. I believe.

D

D

Okay, so let's do this: let's we will figure out the ones that we can just kill right, maybe by the end of the week or by by next week and the other ones again. We need to figure out, like the other ones, we'll have to go with cfocates. I guess. Okay and I'll, maybe you know, shoot a message somewhere to clarify the situation. I guess we'll have with a pair which I will have to sit down and assess because it's been a while. That's.

B

Good okay, thank you.

A

Cool well, then, I think we'll probably wrap this one up. Then I encourage anyone to come back in two weeks, I'll try to drop some information about the whole naming situation, so we can get some more movement. Try uh solicit some feedback on that for next, uh the next meeting two weeks. um Otherwise, thanks for attending and have a good rest of your day week and all all that good stuff.

D

Thanks thanks, everyone bye.