Cloud Native Computing Foundation Contributor Strategy Special Interest Group, 27 Apr 2021

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From YouTube: CNCF SIG Contributor Strategy - Contributor Growth WG 2021-04-27

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CNCF SIG Contributor Strategy - Contributor Growth WG 2021-04-27

A

B

Hey how you doing, how are you, oh good, just got back from vacation. Oh.

A

Nice, where were you.

B

A

Oh okay, you've got because you said you just got back. It sounded like you were.

B

Yeah, why would I go anywhere when.

A

Josh, I just yeah. Well you some. There are like safe ways of you know like a little house.

C

You could go camp out on a glacier or something.

A

B

I'm good, all I need is my house and some cats.

A

So staycation they're, really nice too.

B

I think it'll be staycations for the rest of my life boarding. The cats is way too much of a.

B

B

B

Welcome to sig contributor strategy, contributor growth working group april 27th, 2021.

B

uh It's all friendly faces here would y'all like to. Shall we start? I don't know if anyone else was playing on showing up today.

A

We could get started and then just.

A

Like summarize whatever, if someone does join it right sounds.

B

Great first on our agenda: is the community crm? uh Catherine? Do you have any updates on that.

A

Yeah, so I did post in the slack channel uh that we could get some people like do so. The questions like so we have people who are interested at least one person, and then I know we could get more people. But the question is before we start organizing. It is like what like: where would we do it? Would it be? You know like the um what's it called the circle um or something else you know like where? Where would we have that person or the panel kind of.

B

Personally, I don't think it fits the maintainer circle format. um I think we're just kind of picking that, because we already have that standing meeting, but.

B

I don't really think it's the same thing. um I don't know how you feel about that josh.

C

C

I don't know I mean I think it would be relevant, but uh really the person to ask would be paris yeah, because I think she has a schedule for these things. Well, I hope she has a schedule for them.

C

The um there's been a little bit of confusion on that.

A

C

The um uh if not, then what I would say is we do it for some other time slot and then try to advertise it to people.

B

A

Do you have a meeting with her or somewhere you get like some face time? No, okay,.

C

Now so just ping, her on slack.

B

Lee nice to have you here.

A

B

Hey guys, hey, hey!

B

Is this your first time at this meeting? Would you like to introduce yourself.

D

uh It is sure yeah I actually didn't realize this was the contributor contributed growth working group? um There's a couple of working groups, I think, are intriguing and doing what I can tell fine work um and so yeah my name is lee. I wear a few different hats in the ecosystem, but, uh and today I'm wearing my docker captain's um coat. I guess I guess that's the hat that I'm wearing the coat today. That's what I'm doing.

D

um I don't mean to be coy or anything. I just.

D

Into a lot of things,.

B

That's great, no we're happy to have you here. Was there anything specific you wanted to talk about today? Otherwise, we're just going to run through the agenda and you.

D

D

Community crm, that's interesting. The project specific ambassador program- that's great! I think that ambassador programs are- or you know, I'll withhold opinion to you guys um get there, but the contributor ladder template- that's perfect. I'd love to see is that is there like.

B

Yeah, let me add the links for.

B

That but this should get merged today, but here's the pr for now.

B

D

B

So catherine, for the crm talk, it sounds like you have one person interested, maybe could get another. um What's the format we were thinking of well.

A

That's why I didn't. I didn't want to start recruiting more people before we know, so there is one person, definitely interested uh and he's also working or helping with the crm run book uh just because, like he's been using both crms extensively, so much has much more knowledge than than I have um and yeah. So the question is like: what do we want right, like I think like?

A

If we one of the ideas was like having one person speak about it, make like a kind of a little demo, just to show a little bit like how these tools work and then like say how they are using it. We could have several people, I think, like a little demo would be nice.

A

Doesn't it like not like a product, it would like show a little bit kind of like these are like crafts, so people have kind of an idea of what it is without being like a deep dive into the tool, um but I think it would also be useful to have maybe different uh projects that are very that have different um um requirements or different focuses right, just because they're, probably using it differently and just to see like okay, I'm using it this way and we're using it that way, like kind of have a little bit of that discussion, because maybe whatever he's using is not necessarily what apply.

A

So that's why I thought, maybe like a panel, would be a good. It's not a panel. It's like a group discussion right, it's not like yeah, so I know I mean it. You can't call it a panel because it's how we.

B

It's easy now teasing you in my notes, don't worry about it! um I really like the idea of instead of showing the tool and what it does, I'm really interested in hearing how people use it and what they're they're doing with it, what they're hoping to do with it and like any value they've seen out of it, um because I think if you just show me what I mean very selfish, if you show me what I can do with the tool, I may not connect the dots.

B

It's really a lot more helpful to hear about the interaction from github or from slack or whatever, and then how you would use the tool over time and with various interactions. Maybe.

A

A demo would be the next step like, depending if how interested people are versus, like the triggers like. Oh, we have these tools they exist. This is how like different projects, use it right and then like at the end of this, like at the end, we can say like oh, like like, depending on how many people show up like how much interest there is, and if you know if people are really keen on seeing something, we can schedule something else just depending on on the actual uh interest right like.

A

B

Okay, I think that would be really good. I've been interested in this. uh You want to chat about the run book. I I haven't seen this yet.

A

Yeah I mean it's yeah, it's just like what like tips, so I try to make it agnostic. um Why is it keyword based? That's weird, I don't know uh so I try to make it more agnostic, which makes it a little bit more difficult because different um tools have like. Oh this section, this section. So it's it's it's uh kind of a little um more difficult, but basically it's like okay. um It makes sense to set this up.

A

Use like have these types of tags, or this is how, because they both of them, have text assume all of them will have text, because it's like something that makes a lot of sense. These are.

B

A

The tags that you can use and like um and then uh basically, okay, like these, are like recommended activities daily, weekly monthly right like daily like if, if your tag kind of attracts ta, if you can add tasks to it like you can look at what your chat like just track your tasks right like if you have anything um check out who is active, um then I don't know like all of these tools have they like because they pull information from different sources.

A

You will have double uh pro like double uh profiles right, so they kind of suggest merges. So you have to keep that clean. So you should do that, probably on a weekly basis uh check out the contributions um who was the most active.

A

uh Maybe that's someone you'd wanna kind of recognize, um um some of them like or actually orbit has like these high reach members like people who have like a big.

A

um What's it called twitter like twitter following so, if you see someone who's active, it's like, oh, is that someone, I should kind of you know, try to connect with if they sometimes it's just a reporter or someone who tweeted about you, but maybe it's someone who actually did something a little bit more meaningful right and then uh yeah when you're, interacting with members like you should kind of everyone kind of says, like you have to the best things like keep a lot of notes right so uh because we know like whatever kind of manages the community they may leave.

A

People have different jobs and you want that knowledge to be somewhere right, so make note so our people know so. Basically, that's kind of more or less.

B

Yeah does does would it belong in the run book to say at the very beginning, um just what value a project could get out of a crm and maybe what size community you'd you should have before it even makes sense to use it.

A

Yeah yeah so yeah, I think like um yeah. We can add that in the intro so right now there was nothing so maybe like yeah.

B

Oh okay, sorry, mrs, what to do there yeah? Okay! This looks good. um Was there any feedback you needed from us right now or are you just letting us know that you're working on it yeah.

A

I wanted uh the guy I was working with odysseus um just to have a look at it before so I send it to him but like he is in um greece, so, like.

B

A

To actually join one of these meetings, but it's really late. He was like.

B

A

So um so I yeah had like the more uh crm specific. I tried to make it agnostic and he hasn't looked at it yet because I just did it yesterday to kind of be able to share it with so he hasn't looked at it yet.

A

So I think I wanted him to have a look at it and then I think if he is happy with it, um I would just submit a pr and then maybe have it there and then you know, share in the slack channels of these tools and have other users say like look at it and and contribute. Hopefully, they'll they'll, wanna they'll have an opinion and add to it.

A

B

Sounds good, was there anything else what's community crms before we move on to the ambassador program.

A

um No, I think I didn't have anything.

B

Are you the did you add this to the agenda? Was that josh? Oh okay,.

A

So I was thinking uh so I think, like I mean like, if we have the run book and everything that's pretty, I think it's pretty close to completion that people. Think it's happy. So as a next project I would love to kind of find out is so we're kind of a lot like talking a lot about how to um elevate yeah, encourage people and users to tell their story right. We had like the last time we had.

A

I told you about the hero program and so on, uh but we wanted to do something: that's a little bit more uh exclusive, a little bit more like the docker um captain program or something so maybe kind of creating a framework for that, and then the question is like: is there a way that this could fit into this? um The cnc app right kind of like saying, okay?

A

um Okay, here is like how it could look like and uh like like the cncf. The linux foundation is issuing the badges like have something that kind of links it to the cncf. If they kind of like you, know the program or something that would be something that I would really kind of be interested in exploring so.

B

The cncf has ambassadors right now.

A

Yeah, but that would be project specific right, so it's like like home.

B

Ambassadors or kubernetes, yes, kubernetes have investors, captains something.

C

No, we got the cncf ambassador program, um the, um but there's nothing specifically for kubernetes, um mostly because most of the cncf ambassador program is kubernetes. People.

B

A

Yeah, this would be something that is a little bit more, let's say controlled by the projects. Right, like you kind of know, okay, these people have been very active.

A

They know because, like the cmcf cannot know, you know, like I mean they and a lot of the so the cncf ambassador is very broad because, like there are so many projects right but like some people are like super active and and like we have a few that, like really especially with the hero program, they got like one of them got really excited and is like giving talks all the time, and I would like to give him like something make something a little special you know not like, um and he is basically a linker d expert right now right.

A

So not a cncf kind of expert.

B

So because we're talking about this at the cncf level, though, as part of the sig, what's the goal is the goal to it would be to.

A

B

The cncf to allow people to make badges for their projects- oh.

A

The bachelor that's something we can do anyways right, it's like maybe like I don't know if we it would make sense to have it under the ambassador. The cncf ambassador program have like okay. I must you know like I'm. Also like I don't know if you have like a specialized thing to say, like oh we're, you know, yeah.

D

Catherine, that's what I was going to suggest as well. Is that I mean don't. This is commentary from the side? So don't uh you know don't let this.

D

um Hopefully this encourages you but yeah that you might find success and, first of all I'll say as a and josh are you in the ambassador program.

C

Cncf yeah yeah, okay, um I I'm not sure I would use the cncf ambassador program as a template for anything.

D

Right, yeah, that's what I was gonna say: it's been.

C

A little chaotic.

D

It's yeah, it's yeah good! That's exactly why I asked josh if I because so so, I'm not talking about the ambassador program behind its back but and josh. You know I guess I'll leave it at chaotic.

D

I would add a few other adjectives, um but uh having said that, it is developing and coming along and developing and coming along and one of the ways, catherine to potentially identify you know uplift um to templatize uh the program that you're that linkery has initiated around heroes is his potentially um facilitate the assignment of badges to cncf ambassadors, with special, with acknowledgement of specialized knowledge for a project and perhaps that the projects tie into that is um the uh sanctification of whether or not that individual ambassador desert qualifies for that badge, and I don't mean like necessarily taking a test, but I just mean the plus ones from the project itself, so that or or nominations from the project such that, like it may be, an alternative way of people are entering into the cncf ambassador program is via um given.

D

It is to the point that it is, it might be viable to change the entrance into becoming an ambassador, as through via a project like through a project nominating that person saying you know. We consider that they've that they're real, that they do a lot of advocacy for into this project.

C

Yeah I, but I really also like the idea that this should be part of the cncf ambassador program. um I mean for a couple of reasons. One is um particularly when we're back to doing things in person.

C

We want whoever is participating in these things to be eligible for cncf swag as well, because the one thing that we do have for the cncf ambassadors is sort of a swag pipeline. Second, also because there's going to be people who are only enthusiasts about one project but there's also.

A

C

A bunch of people who are into multiple projects and they're, just like outgoing and and it makes sense for those people to sort of have cncf wide representation.

C

um The um so um you know, because part of I'm thinking about this is is one of the things that standard is part of an ambassador program, for example, is getting a swag pack and the um it'll get be easier for like incubating and beyond. Projects will be easier to get cncf to underwrite that, if it's part of their own ambassador program, um the.

C

And yeah, having with the cncf ambassador program having people have like badges that say which projects they actually have expertise on, would honestly be a good thing. It would make the ambassadors more of a resource.

B

Yeah, do you know who runs the cncf ambassador program right now? Well,.

C

You see there's the problem. Amy runs it in her ample spare time. Okay, um they they have never had a dedicated person for the ambassador program and that's why it has always been a little bit chaotic.

B

I just meant: if we wanted to have it be associated with the cncf ambassadors, then we should talk to amy.

C

Yeah, and particularly, I would say, um they have a monthly semi-monthly um project um project- asks call on wednesday mornings. um I forget what exactly it's called. um They might be skipping this month because of kubecon, but there's.

C

They have a call, that's like amy and your for projects that need things, and I would say that would be a very appropriate topic for them to.

B

Maintain a monthly call.

C

But if you have to wait too long, no, this is something else.

B

Between the cncf and ambassadors.

C

No uh cncf and I can't easily find the name of it because I don't um know the exact schedule and the schedule is weird this month because of con.

B

Because I just got an email about the regularly scheduled, um you know me touch point with the cncf yeah from my project. I was just curious if you meant that.

C

No, no, that's that's separate, um I'm just saying: if there isn't one of these on the schedule soon, then it would make more sense to just go ahead and ask.

B

Okay, I'm not clear on what median it is. So if you yeah do you want to coordinate with amy about when we could talk about it or catherine yeah.

C

I mean the other thing to do would actually be talk about. There's an ambassador's call this week. um If somebody wants to bring it up in the ambassador call. Unfortunately, I have schedule conflicts for the ambassador call this week, so I will not be the one to bring it up, but there is ambassador call.

C

Wait is that tomorrow, that is not.

D

C

Or not tomorrow, sorry thursday.

B

Oh I'm completely out of pocket 8.

C

A.M, pacific and 3 p.m, pacific on thursday. So that would be the other place to bring it up.

D

Assuming you want to right.

C

This is, this is a link or d thing, so you would honestly be the one to bring it up since since you're one of the ones who actually ha already has the lingerie heroes, as opposed to talking about in a theoretical sense,.

A

Yeah well so this is not necessarily uh the hero program. The hero program is like. Oh, like you get like something because you were this month, you were, you know like you're, really active. So that's like a one thing. This is really something that's supposed to be a little bit more exclusive right. um So it's like okay, someone who's continuously talking. They are like doing all these different talks and it's like you, wanna kind of so it's like something a little bit special. It's not like.

A

Oh, you did like this great talk and it got lots of attention, and this is awesome. So it's a little so we wanted to have so it's an addition, we're kind of concerned I'm trying to conceptualize this um new program. That is maybe like people who are heroes at some point. If they continue to tell the story and then they could kind of you know um become an ambassador or whatever we want to call it.

A

um So it's one step up. It would be like uh maybe a letter for the for the that kind of uh thing right without being it in the official contributing letter.

B

Okay, so just make sure you've captured who's gonna follow up on this catherine. Will you either go to that meeting or that meeting.

A

But can you uh when is that I don't think I got the details of when the meeting is.

C

Oh right because you're not you're, not an ambassador right.

A

C

Got it okay and I'm of course not going to be at the meeting this week so.

C

C

uh Maybe I better just start a chat with you and amy.

A

C

Otherwise, this gets complicated.

B

That'd be really helpful thanks.

C

B

So was there anything else we want to chat about the program before I move on to the website.

A

No, I think this is like a good start to start the conversation with how to um put it under the cncf umbrella, because that would be ideal. uh I'm also going to interview two very active users to find out like what would you value what is kind of like to you, and that would be kind of like to create this benefit so, and that would be basically the template right like here. I interviewed someone from the docker um captain program and kind of found something and asked him like what do you?

A

What is really appealing to you just to understand why what the motivation is and then, if we can create that little package, and then that would become the template right, but then it would be ideal once we have that that it kind of somehow is associated, but it because it gives it more gravitas right. If it's not a project it's like and how exactly it would live, but it definitely would be if it is a cncf thing.

B

Oh, no definitely definitely that's a different level of recognition.

B

So next up the website it has been merged. I have found the drafts and the trick with the drafts is that basically, we need two sites.

B

um Two, like you, distinct urls, that we can go to so that on one of them we can render all the drafts and you'll be able to go to the pages and see them and on the live site which would be like contribute.cncf.io. You would only see um things that the toc has approved to be live.

B

So what I was thinking is so right now we have it's called like cncf contribute.netlify.app. This is just where um it's like the sneaky way to get it the site right now until it's live, but we could have something similar to this um called like. Oh, that's, fun, staging or whatever drafts something that they would have like a netlify url.

B

Obviously we could put a domain name to it as well. If we want to ask the cncf to do that, but we could always just have a sneaky backdoor. That's.

B

And this would have the giraffes, so we want to point people and say this is what we're working on or if we want the tc to look at something and not have them looking at raw markdown, that's what they could look at uh and then this would be the live site no drafts.

B

If this sounds good to people, I can work on that this week.

C

A

B

Yeah otherwise, the way to see drafts is you run uh the build locally. um You type mage.

B

B

Let me type that in um actually that's even easier. If you have go, you can just preview it, it does use docker, so you would need docker as well. The contributing guide explains how to do.

B

This um cool, so that should help us with the drafts, because right now it's terribly unhelpful.

A

Do you think they're gonna be live by coupon if it's next week, it's like the collection so.

B

The site's there, all that we would need to do to go live, is update the dns and then wait. You know because it propagates, um but I don't know josh. What like are we approved yet I saw saad say something that looks good.

C

B

In a github issue, they commented on it.

C

Oh yeah, okay, uh if we got approval from sod yeah, the problem was that we had kind of oral approval yeah. um Where is the issue.

C

um Because yeah- because I opened that issue specifically because we needed something we could point to for.

B

Yeah, I don't I don't. If you have the url, that would be helpful. I don't. I.

C

Don't either I I remember, I filed it in some weird obscure cncf reporter, but I don't remember where that is, but.

B

It's not the toc one.

C

C

Maybe maybe it was the contribute project, let's see hold on.

B

I mean okay, let's see we got.

B

Is it this one? Oh.

C

Yeah there we are okay, we got an approval from sod yeah. I I think we'll point to that as being good enough. Okay,.

B

C

Okay, here we have the written approval.

B

Can you create the service desk ticket for that? um I can only create tickets for porter, but not.

C

C

C

C

How do I see my previous tickets? hmm Oh wait! There we go.

C

Oh looks like I have not created one yet.

B

Okay, but you can open one for the sake.

C

Yep yeah- that was a problem earlier because they assigned you to projects by default, and I had several sort of general requests that were being assigned to a project.

B

You know what you need to have them point the c name to.

B

uh I think I texted it all to you in slack, but um it's it's. How.

C

Long ago was that.

B

22 weeks ago now, but it's this right here.

B

This is what we need a cname for contribute.cncf.io to go to that.

C

Okay, wait: where did you just paste that.

B

Into our notes for those okay, yeah.

C

Sorry, I just got too.

B

Many notes are better than slack.

C

C

Okay, anyway, so I will get that filed.

C

Yeah, the one the one danger there is that it being the week before kubecon, we may not be able to get anything. That's not an emergency done, so the um because I know how much cncf staff time this absorbs.

C

B

Oh we'll do our best yep. um I reviewed the contributor lab ladder template. I found some it. It doesn't quite format right. So I submitted you some suggestion, changes that fix the markdown formatting, um but once that that's updated, then um I can merge it today. So it will have this ready for our talk.

C

Yeah, I see all the formatting stuff um minor changes.

B

Yeah, who knew indentation was significant and marked down. It's like yeah, well,.

C

B

Yeah yeah, I I didn't know that either, but when I clicked like preview on the file, that's when I could see it all. You know.

B

B

So otherwise our talk is wednesday may 5th at depending on your time zone super early or scary, early.

C

Or scary early, I'm definitely in the scary early camp there uh yeah! You know this is the time that I am so glad that our talks are pre-recorded. Oh gosh, if I actually had to do the talk live during that time slot. I.

A

Wouldn't have submitted.

B

Would never submit for a 4.

C

Am talk, contributors, yay.

C

Yeah um yeah that's going to be brutal. The um I actually have new sound proofing on order from amazon right now, so I can actually put some sound proofing up in my office this weekend.

B

um So is there anything else we need to do be ready for obviously you know, as speakers will show up early and and hang around later, but is there anything else we need to coordinate in time for the talk.

C

Where are we in the contributor framework.

B

C

B

They're all merged.

B

But they're not visible on the site right now,.

C

B

Okay, it would need to be approved, and then we can flip them out of draft right. Yeah.

C

B

Alternatively, I'm just going to put this out here and you can tell me no instead of having drafts hide, you know on the site they can show up, but have some it'll just say something at the top. I can do some styling so that they're just listed as a giraffe and not formally approved for the two t.

B

I'm not sure how important it is to absolutely not show draft material on the site versus yeah. We.

C

Know we really don't want to show draft material because people won't differentiate. Okay,.

B

Great, I just want to make sure.

C

B

B

Is it ready to have sod look at it.

B

Catherine, are we ready to ask the toc to approve the contributor framework guide or is there more pending.

A

A

At least I didn't have anything on my I think some people wanted to. We did discuss to add, like what did we want to do like some, but that's like something that we can add later on right, like like a wrap up or like five things to like there were like some ideas, yeah, but I didn't know how to so.

B

So what what is the best way in general that we want to ask someone from the 2c to review material that we have uh that's like ready for approval? I know we. I added a label in github for the issues so like one thing we could do, for example, is we could take it out of draft, submit a pr that would make the content go, live and then just you know, add that label and then ask someone from the toc to approve it and when they approve it, it'll get merged.

B

It'll immediately go live the nice thing about that is we don't need the staging site or anything to do that. We could do that like right now, if we wanted.

B

C

um Now I I I don't want to put anything in the way of potentially getting the website flipped on by like adding new content, trying to add new content this week as well and get it through. I mean.

B

Yeah so in general,.

C

B

In general, as a procedure where we remove the draft flag, we submit that as a pr and then we tag saad or whoever else. Our second person is to approve it in general,.

C

Is the other person.

B

Who's that one we got sod and.

C

Alana who's last with an eastern european last name, and I don't know how to pronounce.

B

They smell that right.

B

I don't think I've met alana.

C

um I think it's it's spelled a-l-e-n-n-a, but let me look it up the um a-l-e-n-a one n.

B

A-L-E a-l-e-n-a.

C

B

Okay, so after kubecon I'll submit a pr um removing from draft.

B

And tagged them for preview. Okay,.

C

Yeah I mean we could submit before then I just don't want it to potentially hang up getting the website live because stuff is pending, so we we can do it right after they flip the website to live. If that happens, to be earlier rather than later,.

A

ah Okay, no distractions, yeah, okay,.

B

That's all I had was there anything else uh we need to talk about before we go.

C

That's about it and I filed the tech support ticket, so the.

C

So we're all set there yeah. I just like I'm looking out because I remember in the fall cncf staff were just not available for anything non-emergency, so it might get delayed.

B

Sure that's understandable, but we can hope.

C

B

All right, everybody thanks so much for coming today, really appreciate it have a good week.

B