►
From YouTube: Keynote: Learning in Growing Ecosystem of Underrepresented Country in Tech - Kelsey Hightower
Description
Kelsey is very popular in Indonesia for his amazing work in educating Kubernetes and cloud native practices, lots of people learned from his book Kubernetes Up and Running, and from his great tutorial kubernetes the hardway. Indonesia is underrepresented country in tech and Kelsey shares his point of view on how to progress as tech learner in this ecosystem and how to build open and inclusive tech community that everyone feels safe to be part of.
#kubernetes #cncf #kcd
A
Welcome
everyone.
I
think
this
is
really
an
exciting
day
here
we
are
finally
at
our
very
first
kubernetes
community
base
in
indonesia.
Funny
story.
We
already
planned
this
event.
Actually,
since
I
don't
know,
I
think
2019,
but
because
of
the
pandemic,
we
have
to
postpone
this
kind
of
event
until
yeah.
A
B
B
A
Yeah,
I
think
everyone
when
I
asked
them,
do
you
know
about
indonesia.
They
keep
saying.
I
know
bali,
that's
that's
the
one
thing
that
they
only
know
usually
but
yeah.
That's
okay.
So
I
heard
that
I
saw
your
twit
as
well.
You
recently
got
promoted
to
principal
engineer
right
from
your
previous
role
as
staff
developer
advocate,
so
what's
really
changed
in
your
daily
activity.
B
B
But
I
would
do
a
lot
more
high-level
work
in
what
we
call
horizontal,
so
work
more
across
gcp
and
of
course
I
spend
more
time
in
like
design
product
reviews,
that
kind
of
thing
and,
of
course,
with
a
lot
of
our
customers
that
are
trying
to
design
how
their
cloud
footprint
is
going
to
be
so
very
similar
to
the
previous
role,
but
maybe
slightly
different
in
terms
of
the
advocacy
work
not
as
much
talks,
not
as
much
conference.
Speaking.
B
No,
don't
give
me
too
much
more
work.
I
think
these
days,
I'm
studying
you
know,
I
think
a
lot
of
people
are
still
struggling
with
app
design.
I
think
at
this
stage,
so
much
of
the
technology
we're
using
before
is
getting
way
more
stable.
So
I
think
if
I
ever
write
another
book
again,
because
it's
a
lot
of
work
to
do
so
I'll
probably
start
talking
about
what
is
it
like
to
build
end-to-end
applications?
B
Typically,
we
write
books
on
one
specific
technology
like
kubernetes,
but
these
days
a
lot
of
people
want
to
know
how
does
the
whole
thing
work
from
authorization
to
authentication
to
your
application
and
database
design?
I
think
we
all
forget.
Database
design
is
probably
one
of
the
biggest
challenges
in
dealing
with
applications
today.
So
if
you
ever
see
another
book
from
me,
it
will
probably
be
about
the
entire
software
development
experience.
A
Okay,
so
I
think
there
is
one
phenomena
that
I
saw
on
the
twitter,
so
I
remember
that
you
created
a
repository
called
no
code
right
and
then
the
funny
thing
is
that
several
companies-
or
several
I
don't
know
several
companies-
try
to
create
product
with
use
by
using
that
kind
of
term
no
code.
So
what
do
you
think
about
that?
Is
that
something
that
you
expect
or.
B
I
I
hope
I
didn't
invent
that
term.
You
know
that
was
a
joke
and
I
think
the
joke
went
and
got
really
really
popular,
but
the
concept
for
you
all
that
are
maybe
watching
that
are
unfamiliar
with
no
code.
Was
this
idea
that
do
we
really
need
to
be
writing
all
these
new
software
projects
constantly
reinventing
the
whale?
I
think
the
answer
is
no,
but
yeah
you
start
to
see.
You
know
low
code.
B
You
know
this
idea
that
you
can
just
kind
of
drag
and
drop
or
use
these
lightweight
frameworks
to
build
purpose-built
things,
but
there's
no
code
concept.
I
don't
even
know
how
to
start
with
that,
but
I
think
a
lot
of
people
are
trying
to
just
make
software
development
easier
for
people
who
are
not
traditionally
software
engineers
or
who
do
not
want
to
write
code
to
just
build
simple
applications.
So
I
welcome
it.
A
Cool,
thank
you
so
because
you
don't
know
recent
news
about
indonesia.
I
would
like
to
tell
you
something
so
I'm
gonna
give
a
bit
context.
So
indonesia
is
actually
has
270
million
people
across
a
17
000
island
right
and
then
we
have
recent
tech
booming
for
the
past
five
to
seven
years,
and
I
think
when
we
spoke
one
year
ago
at
the
time
we
only
have
five
unicorns,
and
today
we
already
have
10
to
12
unicorn.
A
I
cannot
recall
exactly
how
many
it
is,
but
that's
really
exciting,
right
to
see.
In
the
just
past
one
year
we
have
new
unicorn
coming
despite
the
situation
and
the
pandemic,
and
that
kind
of
thing
so
the
tech
ecosystem
in
indonesia
is
still
super.
Young
demand
is
very
high,
but
unfortunately
the
talent
supply
is
very
low
right
now.
So
I
would
like
to
ask:
do
you
have
any
thought
about
this?
B
Yeah
I
mean,
I
think,
there's
there's
many
tools
you
can
use.
I
think
some
people
have
things
like
code
schools
or
maybe
a
non-traditional
learning
mechanism
in
the
us
there's
tons
of
these
code
schools.
These
are
like
you
know
three
to
nine
month,
programs,
where
you
can
help
people
get
started.
I
think
the
other
big
part
of
this
is
that
companies
are
going
to
need
to
be
willing
to
take
people
who
are
switching
careers.
B
You
can't
always
just
hire
senior
engineers
with
20
years
of
experience,
sometimes
you're
going
to
have
to
go
out
and
invest
in
talent,
so
there's
going
to
be
people
who
are
really
early
in
their
career,
and
I
think
companies
are
going
to
have
to
help
out
with
this.
So
when
I
hear
people
say
there's
a
shortage
in
talent,
I
think
a
lot
of
times.
B
It
means
that
we
just
haven't
figured
out
how
to
curate
talent
in
the
pipeline.
So
look
go
to
those
code.
Schools
hire
people
who
only
have
that
nine
months
of
transitional
experience
and
then
give
them
work
that
allows
them
to
grow
into
the
particular
role.
So
I
think
we're
going
to
need
traditional
and
non-traditional
education
sources,
but
again,
I
think
just
going
to
have
to
have
the
whole
community,
including
the
companies
that
are
hiring.
You
know,
realize
that
all
talent
is
going
to
be
senior
talent.
A
There
is
actually
basic
domestic
stuff
right
like
how
to
start
learning
python
and
that
kind
of
thing,
and
in
your
opinion,
after
what
they
should
do,
after
let's
say,
company
hired
them,
and
then
they
get
into
the
company
what
they
should
do
after
that,
because
probably
company
has
different
needs
right,
probably
what
they
have
learned
during
the
code
school
and
probably
during
the
bootcamp
camps,
not
really
help
them
in
directly
jump
into
the
technology
used
by
that
company.
So
what
should
they
do
at
the
time.
B
Well,
I
mean
I've
on
board.
I've
hired
a
lot
of
people
in
my
past
there's
so
many
other
roles
in
having
everyone
writing
code
right.
I
think
sometimes
having
more
people
do
testing.
So
if
I
had
a
new
developer
that
isn't
super
experienced
writing
code,
but
they
do
have
some
skills
and
they
can
grow
over
time.
B
Allow
them
write
some
unit
tests,
allow
them
to
do
some
manual
testing
of
the
product
and
improve
the
quality
of
the
product.
Tech
support
very
important
role.
If
you
don't
have
really
great
tech
support
now,
you
can
probably
bring
in
people
to
help
on
the
support
side,
and
then
everyone
has
a
backlog
of
work
that
maybe
your
senior
engineers
cannot
prioritize,
but
it's
the
type
of
work
that
a
new
engineer
can
do,
even
if
it's
going
to
take
them
much
longer
time.
B
So
I
got
to
think
about
if
you're
going
to
be
a
company
thinking
about
this
you're,
going
to
think
that
first
three
to
six
months,
you
may
not
be
able
to
get
a
fully
productive
employee
coming
in
on
day
one,
but
just
having
the
type
of
work
kind
of
lined
up
we're.
Gonna
have
them
start
in
qa
after
three
months,
maybe
we'll
move
them
into
somewhere
like
support,
maybe
after
three
months
and
of
course
they
can
continue
learning
where
they
left
off
in
things
like
a
code
school.
If
you
will.
A
B
Most
companies
are
not
good
at
this;
most
people
just
have.
We
need
three
people
to
just
do
the
code
and
they
just
want
to
hire
and
say
just
go,
write
the
code
because
we're
gonna
have
to
do
a
much
better,
the
job
than
that
we're
gonna,
have
to
start
curating
talent
and
do
a
better
job
of
retaining
talent,
because
you
don't
want
to
lose
the
people.
You
hire
immediately
yeah.
A
A
B
I
don't
try
to
learn
them
all.
I
know
the
fundamentals:
there's
networking,
there's
compute,
there's
storage,
there's
security.
These
are
my
fundamental
buckets
and,
depending
on
the
type
of
work
that
I'm
doing
or
the
type
of
customers
I'm
working
with.
I
make
sure
I
understand
the
fundamentals
I
learned
sql
a
long
time
ago
turns
out.
People
are
still
using
sql
today
in
2021.
B
B
What
are
the
fundamentals
that
it
implements
and
then
for
me,
I
only
need
a
couple
of
days
to
kind
of
put
my
hands
on
it.
Look
at
its
feature
set
and
maybe
see
if
it
can
do
something
that
I
needed
to
do,
but
other
than
that
I
try
to
prioritize
my
learning.
Based
on
the
problem
in
front
of
me.
I
don't
spend
a
lot
of
time
trying
to
learn
all
the
logos.
I
might
read
the
product
page,
but
I'm
not
going
to
necessarily
try
to
spin
something
up.
All
the
time.
A
Yeah
so
yeah,
I
think
I
I
agree
with
that.
So
that's
what
that's
the
thing
that
I'll
also
tell
to
everyone
when
they
talk
to
me
about
how
to
learn
effectively
right
so
usually
you're
gonna
start
with
fundamental
and
after
that,
no
matter
which
technology
or
specific
technology
that
you
use.
It's
basically
the
same,
it's
using
the
same
fundamentals.
So
that's
why
sometimes
I
see
that
people
directly
jump
to
the
technology
even
when,
especially
when
they
don't
really
know
the
basic
and
then
probably
they
ended
up
knowing
nothing
about
the
technology.
A
B
I
mean
you
know
if
you
think
about
it,
you
know
like,
let's
think
about
crutches.
You
know
if
you
break
your
leg,
if
your
leg
isn't
broken
you're
not
going
to
go,
get
crutches
right.
When
should
you
use
crutches
when
you
need
them
right?
So
I
think
when
it
comes
to
technology,
you
don't
just
have
to
say:
oh
everyone
else
is
using
kubernetes.
You
should
go
run
and
use
it.
I
think
the
best
thing
to
know
is
like
when
you
actually
have
a
need.
B
So
let
me
give
you
some
examples:
if
you
have
everything
kind
of
working
on
vms
and
for
the
most
part
everything's
working
well,
maybe
you
don't
need
kubernetes
right
now.
That
may
probably
makes
a
lot
of
sense.
I
do
think
companies
do
have
a
road
map
of
things
they
wish
could
get
done.
Maybe
you're
using
tara
from
today,
maybe
using
some
cloud
providers
from
low-level
infrastructure,
but
you
don't
have
centralized
logging
or
you
don't
really
have
a
good
health
check
mechanism.
You
don't
have
a
good
scheduler
that
can
schedule
things
between
multiple
zones.
B
Once
you
start
to
add
all
those
things
up,
then
kubernetes
starts
to
get
super
interesting,
because
the
alternative
is
that
you're
gonna
have
to
go
out
and
build
those
things
yourself.
So
once
you
start
to
get
to
that
crossroad
that
you're
either
going
to
build
it
yourself
or
you
can
bring
it
in
via
something
like
kubernetes.
I
think
that's
when
it
starts
to
make
the
most
sense,
yeah.
A
Agree
agree,
so
I
suddenly
remember
that
we
had
conversation
on
my
podcast
about
a
platform
on
top
of
platform.
So
I
think
it's
you
also
tweeted
a
long
time
back
and
then
I
attended
kubecon
last
october
in
la
right,
and
then
I
see
there
are
a
lot
of
companies
with
their
offering
basically
they're,
providing
something
on
top
of
kubernetes
there's
a
company
that
provide
monitoring
tools
for
kubernetes
workload,
and
there
is
also
a
company
that
providing
a
backup
feature
so
that
we
can
backup
the
cluster
easily.
A
B
Well,
you
know,
look
the
people
that
want
to
assemble
all
those
pieces
like
a
backup
solution.
You
know
networking
solution,
monitoring
solution.
You
know
people
will
probably
be
doing
that
for
another
25
30
years,
who
knows
and
while
they're
doing
that,
I
think
kubernetes
just
has
such
a
rich
ecosystem
if
people
that
need
to
do
that,
people
that
want
to
do
that
will
probably
use
kubernetes
to
do
that.
So,
of
course,
you'll
see
more
and
more
verticals
or
industries
or
solutions
pop
up
around
that.
B
I
think
the
question
really
comes
down
to
is:
how
fast
would
the
alternatives
mature
things
like
serverless
cloud
run?
You
know,
there's
the
thing
called
app
runner
or
azure,
and
I
think
when
you
look
at
all
of
these
things,
the
question
would
be
is:
when
do
the
other
platforms
mature
to
the
point
where
you
don't
need
to
go?
Do
that
anymore?
So
that's
what
I'm
paying
attention
towards
everyone!
B
That's
kind
of
assembling
their
platforms,
I'm
glad
that
that
ecosystem
exists,
because
I
don't
think
serverless
offerings
today
do
a
very
good
job
of
running
an
expansive
set
of
workloads.
So
there's
going
to
be
a
place
for
kubernetes,
but
one
thing
where
you
can
get
a
really
good
hint
is
gke
autopilot.
B
I
think
that
is
kind
of
a
peak
at
the
future.
Maybe
we
hide
the
cluster
and
the
machines
and
all
of
these
things-
and
we
just
start
dealing
with
a
more
higher
level
version
of
kubernetes
that
minus
the
infrastructure
component.
So
I
think
that's
where
we're
going
to
end
up
going
more
curated
distributions
of
kubernetes.
If
you
will
okay
cool.
A
Yeah
I
get
it,
let's
talk
about
something
that
I
think
it's
really
close
to
us,
it's
about
being
underrepresented,
community
and
country
in
tech.
So
we
all
know
that
you,
you
are
one
of
the
role
model
in
tech
communities
right
and
then
you
also
came
from
the
underrepresented
group
in
tech.
So
can
you
share,
or
would
you
like
to
share
the
challenges
that
you
faced
during
your
journey
and
how
did
you
take
all
all
of
those.
B
A
B
Honestly,
if
you're
in
your
home
country,
then
that
means
there's
just
ton
of
opportunity
right.
Maybe
we
don't
have
to
rely
on
everyone
else
to
do
everything.
It
just
turns
out
that
you
can
actually
learn
the
same
set
of
things
you
can
invest
in
that
type
of
knowledge.
You
can
actually
do
for
yourself
when
you
move
into
environments
where
there's
over
representation
and
maybe
that
over
representation
might
mean
you're
you're,
not
given
equal
opportunity
to
learn
the
right
things.
You're
not
presented
a
set
of
problems,
you
don't
get
hired
at
certain
companies.
A
B
A
Cool,
so
I
I
got
to
think
about
that.
So,
okay,
let's
talk
about
being,
let's
say,
do
something
in
our
country
right,
so
let's
take
example
of
this
kind
of
event
or
probably
yeah.
Let's
take
example
for
this
event,
so
actually
this
even
is
the
first
our
kubernetes
community
days.
We
already
have
many
communities
in
indonesia,
but
we
already
have
the
opportunity
we
already
give
the
opportunity
to
people
so
that
they
can,
let's
say,
share
their
knowledge
or
probably
their
work
to
these
conferences.
A
But,
given
that
kind
of
situation,
we
still
have
less
number
of
people,
probably
submitting
cfp
or
less
number
of
people
than
we
expect
to
join
this
kind
of
event.
So,
even
though
we
already
give
some
space
for
them,
people
still
not
it's
not
encouraging
them
to
join
that
kind
of
event.
So
I'm
just
kind
of
wondering
right
now.
B
Well,
first
question
asked:
is:
does
your
community
care
about
speaking
at
conferences
like
this?
The
answer
may
be:
no,
there
are
some
people
who
can
care
less
about
speaking
at
conferences
like
this.
So
maybe
it's
the
wrong
thing
for
your
community.
You
don't
have
to
do
what
everybody
else
is
doing
right.
Other
people
come
speak
at
the
conference.
Maybe
that's
not
what
your
community
needs.
Maybe
it's
time
for
something
different,
maybe
there's
time
for
a
different
style.
B
B
Technology
technology,
clap,
clap,
clap,
ask
the
same
questions.
Can
we
not
do
something
different?
What's
unique
to
your
culture?
Maybe
you
can
bring
that
to
the
technology
world
and
we
can
try
something
different
so
oftentimes.
What
I'll
see
is
people
are
not
attracted
to
the
same
thing,
so
maybe
I
would
say,
take
a
step
back
and
ask
what's
unique
to
our
community.
What
do
they
prefer
doing?
B
Maybe
it
isn't
like
the
tech
conferences
that
we
see
in
other
parts
of
the
world.
So
maybe
it's
not
a
bad
thing.
Maybe
the
community
is
telling
you
something
our
culture
is
different.
That's
not
appealing
to
us.
Maybe
we
don't
want
to
do
that
now
on
the
flip
side.
Maybe
people
do
want
to
do
that
and
maybe
there's
a
reason
why
they
don't
feel
confident.
Maybe
they
don't
feel
like
they're
experts
if
you're
listening
to
this-
and
you
say-
hey,
I'm
not
going
to
speak
until
I'm
an
expert.
Well,
I
don't
do
that.
B
I
talk
about
a
lot
of
topics
that
I'm
learning
so
learning
in
public,
I
think,
is
a
good
exercise.
So
maybe
that's
something
you
have
to
communicate
to
people
that
we're
not
only
looking
for
people
who
are
authoritative
or
experts.
Maybe
it's
okay,
if
you're
just
learning-
and
you
just
want
to
learn
in
front
of
other
people,
so
I
think
think
about
both
approaches.
Yeah.
B
B
What
I'll
do
is
just
evaluate
it
in
in
honest
and
say:
hey,
I'm
going
to
try
this
things
out
and
sometimes
I'll
write
it
out
as
a
tutorial
on
github.
Sometimes
I
would
just
live
tweet,
hey
I'm
trying
this
I'm
clicking
here.
I
got
this
error,
I'm
not
sure.
What's
going
on
and
then
what
happens?
Is
people
in
public
will
say?
Let
us
take
a
look
at
it.
Hey
have
you
tried
this
thanks
for
reporting
this
particular
error
or
I'll?
B
Just
ask
a
question:
hey
I'm
trying
to
do
this
with
istio
or
envoy,
and
something
doesn't
quite
make
sense.
Can
someone
look
at
what
I
try
to
tell
me
if
I'm
doing
it
right
or
wrong,
and
I
think
what
you
have
to
do
is
just
understand
that
there
will
be
feedback
and
the
people
who
look
down
on
you
for
getting
it
wrong.
Well,
look
they're
never
going
to
be
helpful,
but
most
of
our
tech
community
at
least
the
part
that
I
interact
with.
B
A
I
think
what
people
are
afraid
of
is
about
being
wrong
when
they
learn
in
public.
So
how?
How
did
you
tackle
this
kind
of
feeling?
If
you
let's
say
you,
did
something
wrong
and
then
people
give
probably
reply
with
bad
messages
on
bad
tweets?
How
did
you
tackle
that?
How
do
you
handle
that
situation?
Remember.
B
What
is
called
is
called
learning.
Okay,
ideally,
if
you're
learning
you
don't
know
how
it
works.
So
so
when
it
comes
to
learning
you're
not
expected
to
necessarily
have
the
answer,
this
is
not
a
test
in
grade
school.
This
is
this
is
learning.
So
if
someone
says
hey,
I
tried
this
and
it
doesn't
work
and
now
we're
going
to
find
out
who
the
teachers
are,
the
teachers
will
show
up
and
say:
oh,
let
me
show
you
what
you're
doing
and
then
you
can
learn
from
them.
Anyone
that
is
criticizing.
B
A
So
I
think
that's
also,
I
think
new
way
to
learn
it's
not
only
about
doing
live
stream
and
then
do
live
coding
that
kind
of
thing,
but
we
can
also
try
different
approach
to
learning
public
like
making
questions
asking
questions
so
that
other
people
can
help
answering
them.
That's
perfectly
makes
sense.
Thank
you
kelsey
for
that.
So
one
more
one.
Last
question
before
I
give
the
opportunity
to
attend
this,
to
ask
questions.
So,
what's
hot
right
now
that
people
should
start
learning
apart
from
kubernetes.
B
Human
skills-
that's
what's
hot!
I
think
a
lot
of
people
have
been
in
home
for
so
long
they've
forgotten
how
to
interact
with
people.
People
have
forgotten,
like
you
know,
just
being
nice,
that's
a
skill
being
respectful,
that's
a
skill,
so
there
are
more
than
technical
skills.
So
I
think,
what's
hot
right
now
is
learning
to
be
civilized
learning
that
a
lot
of
people
are
going
through
a
lot
of
stuff
right
now,
so
you
can
actually
go
study,
those
skills
as
well.
So
look.
B
We
can
talk
about
networking
service,
mesh,
serverless,
kubernetes,
lots
of
those.
There
will
always
be
those,
but
I
think
what's
hot
right
now
is
just
rediscovering
that
we're
our
humans
and
when
the
time
is
appropriate,
more
than
likely
we'll
get
to
interact
with
each
other
again,
and
so
I'm
thinking.
Maybe
we
can
start
thinking
about
how
to
be
better
at
interacting
with
each
other
when
the
time
comes.
So
that
would
be
my
recommendation.
B
Some
of
them
are
attracted
to
this
alternative
type
of
money
out
here,
because
they
feel
that
they're
not
liberated
by
those
things,
and
when
you
look
at
people
that
don't
have
access
to
the
financial
system,
things
are
hard
for
them
they're
hard
in
ways
that
are
not
hard
for
me.
I
also
learned
how
to
cook
other
dishes,
so
I've
been
learning
how
to
cook
ethiopian
food
and
just
really
enjoying
what
goes
into
those
ingredients
and
how
their
recipes
are
put
together
and
being
very
patient
learning
new
skills.
B
So
I
do
enjoy
food
from
different
parts
of
the
world,
but
I've
never
learned
how
to
cook
those
myself.
So
during
the
pandemic,
I've
actually
learned
some
of
those
skills.
So
now
I
try
cooking
different
things
and
posting
them
on
twitter
to
get
feedback
from
people
you
know.
Does
my
injury
look
correct.
Does
my
thing
I
just
made
look
right:
if
not
people
say
you
need
a
little
bit
more
water,
you
need
to
cook
it
a
little
longer
and
I
just
take
that
feedback,
so
I'm
always
studying
those
kind
of
skills.
A
B
You
have
been
working
remotely
for
the
last
15
years,
almost
okay,
and
so
for
me.
I've
always
tried
to
balance
my
communication
style
so
number
one
letting
people
know
what
I'm
working
on.
So
I'm
not
worried
about.
If
people
understand
the
value
that
I'm
adding,
so
I
typically
try
to
make
sure
that
it's
very
clear.
So
sometimes
that
means
writing
things
down
in
a
doc
giving
people
updates
of
where
I
am
on
certain
things
and
I
keep
in
a
maintained
calendar.
B
So
people
know
the
things
that
I'm
committed
to
and
know
when
those
things
are
done.
The
other
thing
is
also
knowing
what
everyone
else
is
up
to
in
the
world
that
I
care
about
so
staying
paying
attention.
So
I
think
stress
comes
from
when
we
don't
know
or
when
things
aren't
going
right.
So
I
try
to
have
as
much
information
as
I
can
specifically
when
we're
all
working
remote
right.
B
You
don't
want
to
miss
out
on
something
super
important
so
and
then
the
second
last
thing
I'll
say
here
is
maintaining
relationships
every
once
in
a
while.
I
would
just
have
a
conversation
with
someone
just
one-on-one
just
to
catch
up
just
to
talk
about
and
preserve
the
relationship
we
built
over
the
years.
A
Cool,
thank
you
for
the
answer.
I
hope
that
answered
your
question
now.
There
is
another
question
from
ahmad
zaputra.
So,
what's
your
opinion
be
useful?
Do
you
have
any
suggestion
about
the
useful
fundamental
resources?
I
think
what
he
says.
Do
you
have
any
fundamental
resources
that
useful
for
a
high
school
student
to
get
started
with
kubernetes.
B
I
would
always
ask
why
would
they
want
to
use
kubernetes
in
high
school
like
to
me?
Kubernetes
is
infrastructure.
You
didn't
mean
like
to
me,
and
this
is
just
my
opinion.
Maybe
in
high
school
they
want
to
go
into
system
administration.
So,
yes,
maybe
they
should
go,
learn
kubernetes.
Maybe
you
start
with
a
simple
book
or
raspberry
pi's
and
you
put
the
whole
thing
together
and
they
can
learn
the
fundamentals
of
networking.
They
can
learn
the
fundamentals
of
linux.
B
If
it
was
me
teaching
someone
in
high
school,
I
would
definitely
try
to
do
something
where
you're
doing
things
from
the
ground
up.
I
think
it's
okay
to
learn
linux,
to
understand
how
that
works
and
what
the
world
is
without
kubernetes
and
then
maybe
slowly
build
up.
So
there's
all
these
raspberry
pi
products,
but
for
high
school
students.
I
would
think
about
networking,
linux
and
then
layer
up
until
you
get
to
something
like
kubernetes.
B
I
don't
know
if
I
would
just
say
here's
kubernetes,
because
I
don't
know
if
they
would
understand
the
value
and
it
was
just
like.
Oh,
I'm
just
learning
kubernetes,
because
you've
asked
me
to
the
fundamentals:
are
what
happens
before
kubernetes,
so
they
can
understand
the
challenge
and
so
then
they'll
have
the
fundamentals.
So
when
I
say
kubernetes
does
orchestration
well,
they'll
understand
what
orchestration
is
and
you
have
to
do
it
manually.
First.
A
A
There
are
some
people
that
say
student
that
don't
want
to
feel
missing
out
of
this
technology,
so,
instead
of
trying
to
learn
basic,
they
want
to
directly
jump
into
the
the
technology
that
is
hot
right
now,
but
I
think
that
that's
true,
I
think,
let's
start
from
fundamental.
I
think
it's
not
really
it's
not
too
late
right
if
you
are
still
in
still
high
still
in
high
school,
but
you
still
learn
about
linux
and
networking
and
that
kind
of
basic
stuff.
B
A
B
Yeah,
I'm
I'm
really
interested
in
serverless
right
now,
because
if
we
get
it
right,
then
we
can
get
closer
to
utility
computing
like
if
you
think
about
in
your
house,
you
have
electric
socket,
you
can
just
plug
something
into
the
wall.
It
works.
Energy
is,
you
know,
pretty
effective,
is
low.
There's
a
nice
power
systems
in
many
places
in
many
countries
and
everyone
can
use
it.
Everyone
knows
how
to
use
electricity
for
the
most
part
safely
and
consistently
in
in
infrastructure.
Today
you
have
to
do
too
much
work.
B
Linux,
vm,
auto
scale,
group
terraform,
kubernetes,
permit
it's
too
much,
so
I
think
in
the
service
community.
I
think
they're
trying
to
have
a
solution
that
when
you
deploy
your
app,
that's
it
infrastructure
just
well
connected
the
choices
are
made.
One
thing
I
do
like,
though,
is
that
even
the
serverless
platforms
are
starting
to
standardize
on
things
like
containers
prometheus,
open
telemetry.
B
So
I
think
what
we're
doing
now
with
the
kubernetes
world
is
we're
experimenting
on
the
workload
types
right.
If
you
think
about
google
cloud
serverless
offering
cloud
run
well,
we've
adopted
the
k
native
api
yeah
right,
so
we're
bringing
in
these
standards
that
are
happening
in
the
open
source
community
and
I
think
that's
going
to
really
be
the
thing
that
makes
serverless
take
off
because
it
will
no
longer
just
be
proprietary,
only
works
in
a
small.
B
You
know
one
cloud
provider:
what
if
we
do
adopt
industry
standards
where
things
become
somewhat
portable,
not
a
hundred
percent.
A
bit
close.
I
want
to
be
a
reuse
of
my
skills,
so
I
think
that's
where
I
really
like
the
focus
on
the
serverless
community
of
delivering
solutions
and
not
just
low-level
technology.
A
B
I
just
think
they're
just
two
different
things
right
serverless,
so
I
think
at
any
point
in
time,
they're
still
mainframes
from
the
70s
they're,
still
bare
metal,
they're,
still
vms
they're,
still
kubernetes
and
they're
still
serverless,
but
I
don't
think
there's
ever
going
to
be
one
that
takes
over
the
other
for
a
long,
long
time,
you're
talking
like
30
40
years.
So
I
don't.
I
don't
think,
that's
the
the
goal.
I
think
the
goal,
though,
is
to
have
some
competitiveness,
though,
if
you
have
an
application
that
works
for
serverless,
why
wouldn't
you
use
that?
First?
B
I
think
kubernetes
is
always
going
to
be
really
good
at
people
who
want
to
get
high
resource
utilization
if
they
can
tweak
and
tune
kubernetes.
I
think
we're
gonna
do
a
good
job,
but
also
I
see
things
like
gke
autopilot
that
is
taking
kubernetes
closer
to
serverless
yeah.
So
you
keep
the
kubernetes
api.
B
You
get
a
lot
of
the
same
integrations,
but
you
don't
have
to
do
as
much
cluster
management.
So
then
it
becomes
about
what
workload
api
do
you
want?
Do
you
want
kubernetes
deployment?
Do
you
want
kubernetes
crime
job,
or
do
you
want
something
that
looks
like
k
native
that
runs
in
cloud
run?
That's
where
we're
going
to
land.
A
B
B
B
Maybe
you
can
write
some
libraries
and
share
with
other
people,
and
I
think
the
value
is
that
when
you
graduate,
you
want
to
have
the
skills
of
knowing
how
to
use
version,
control,
learning
how
to
use
github
having
a
workflow
and
getting
to
know
people
in
that
community
and
the
professional
community
in
which
you
plan
to
work.
So
I
think
it's
a
good
investment
of
time.
A
B
I
mean
everybody's
looking
for
great
engineering
talent
right,
so
I
think
you're
going
to
try
your
best
to
make
sure
that
it's
attracted
the
work.
For
example,
I
work
with
a
lot
of
startups
and
when
I
look
at
their
job
postings,
it's
not
clear
why
a
great
engineer
would
come
work
there.
Oh,
we
just
want
a
general
programmer
to
do
general
programming
stuff.
I
can
go
anywhere
for
that.
Why
would
I
uniquely
want
to
come
work
at
your
company?
What
am
I
going
to
be
working
on?
B
What
is
the
actual
opportunity
and
I
think,
a
lot
of
people
don't
think
about
the
presentation
of
the
opportunity
they
just
do
it
as
a
job.
We
have
jobs,
you
need
a
job,
come
get
a
job,
then
you're
just
going
to
be
fighting
for
you
know
maybe
just
more
generalists,
but
if
you
really
want
great
talent,
then
great
talent
wants
to
come
and
work
on
great
problems.
Do
you
have
great
problems?
Does
your
website
show
off
the
great
problems?
B
A
Yeah,
cool
yeah,
that's
interesting!
There
is
one.
I
will
take
one
last
question
from
the
participants.
This
is
interesting,
so
there
is
a
funny
phenomenon
in
indonesia
right
now,
because
there
are
a
lot
of
zoom
meeting
right
then
online
meeting
some
people
start
having
multiple
meeting
at
once.
That's
funny
thing
and
I
still
don't
know
how
they
can
do
that
yeah,
but
I'm
not
gonna
ask
whether
you
are
doing
that
or
not,
but
I
know
I'm
not
you're
not
doing
that
there
for
sure.
A
B
B
I
think
the
calendar
is
a
great
way
of
doing
that
if
you
only
have
eight
hours
in
a
day
or
ten
hours,
whatever
your
work
schedule
is,
if
you
put
hey,
I'm
going
to
be
working
on
this
for
two
hours
and
then
I'm
going
to
be
writing
code
for
three
hours.
That
means
there's
only
three
hours
in
a
day
for
meetings,
and
so
when
people
go
to
book
a
meeting
they'll
see
wow.
A
Okay,
I
think
I
I
should
also
say
that
the
power
of
saying
no
or
power
of
clicking
the
reject
button
on
the
calendar
is
also
important.
What
do
you
think
about
it,
because,
even
though
we
already
book
our
calendar,
like
let's
say
for
learning
and
that
kind
of
thing
people
keep
coming
and
then
hey,
I
need
this
meeting.
This
is
origin,
and
that
kind
of
thing.
How
did
you
find
that
kind
of
situation?
And
how
did
you?
B
You
know
what
you
just
got
to
be
honest
and
sometimes
yes
and
then
you
have
to
say
no
later
I
mean
people
will
be
disappointed
if
you
say
yes,
so
this
is
why
I
just
try
to
my
best
proactively
block
off
your
calendar.
So
you
don't
have
to
say
no,
the
calendar
will
say
no
for
you,
but
you
just
tell
people
hey.
I
need
to
work.
So
if
they
invite
you
it's
an
invitation,
it's
not
an
obligation.
You
can
just
click,
no
and
then
usually
get
put
a
reason.
B
B
A
Yeah,
so
I
think
for
some
people
I
think
it's
okay,
just
to
say
no,
but
I
think
in
indonesia
it's
a
little
bit
complicated
right,
the
culture
that
we
have
easily
tend
to
make
people
afraid
to
say.
No,
so
that's
why
sometimes
for
just
okay,
I
will
have
my
time
for
you
and
that
kind
of
so
they
ended
up
working
over
hours
and
yeah.
They
basically
have
no
word-like
balance
anymore
if
they
keep
doing
that
but
yeah.
I
think
I
do
agree
that
having.
B
Yes,
I
think
the
us
has
that
problem
too.
I
think
for
me,
I've
just
helped
train
people
around
me.
If
you
want
me
to
be
at
my
best,
I
see,
then
I
need
to
be
able
to
actually
work
right.
I
come
to
work
to
work.
I
don't
come
to
work
to
only
meet
right.
They
don't
call
it
go
to
meetings
right.
They
kind
of
go
to
work
so
in
order
to
work.
So
if
you,
so,
if
you
just
go
on
your
calendar,
just
try
it
say:
I'm
working.
B
B
My
point
right,
so
I
don't
really
want
to
work
at
night.
So
let
me
work
during
the
day,
so
I
think,
allow
the
calendar
to
communicate
and
then
chip
away
right.
I
get
it
cultural,
a
lot.
I
think
a
lot
of
managers
forget
that
people
need
to
actually
work,
and
so
what
you
have
to
do
is
just
try
to
educate
people.
I
cannot
be
in
all
of
these
meetings.
Can
we
just
like
make
sure
that
we
think
of
meetings
very
strategically.
A
Yeah
cool,
thank
you
so
much.
I
hope
everyone
here
will
take
that
into
their
heart,
so
that
they
can
start
doing
it
after
this
so
kelsey.
I
think
we
are
approaching
the
end
of
the
session
and
I
have
one
last
question
for
closing:
is
there
any
closing
statement,
messages
or
advice
that
you
can
give
to
indonesian
tech
community
and
probably
to
student
as
well
before
we
close
this.
B
It's
funny,
google,
has
this
phrase.
We
call
it
a
respect
opportunity
and
I
think
what
you
have
to
do
is
understand
the
opportunity
you
have.
You
don't
have
to
replicate
the
us
tech
community.
You
don't
have
to
replicate
the
european
tech
community.
I
think
the
opportunity
you
all
have
is
to
identify
what
the
indonesian
tech
community
will
be,
and
then
you
become
the
leaders
of
those
things
and
that
way
you
can
bring
your
culture
to
us.
When
you
visit
the
us
bring
your
culture.
B
I
remember
I
met
someone
from
india
at
pycon
one
year
and
they
brought
me
something
from
india
and
he
told
me
that
my
style
matches
a
similar
teaching
style
in
india
and
he
explained
it
to
me
and
I
learned
a
lot
about
his
culture
and
his
way
of
thinking
about
the
world.
So
I
think
that's
the
opportunity,
don't
miss
that
opportunity,
because
you
have
your
own
unique
identity
and,
to
be
honest
with
you,
the
world
needs
new
ideas
and
those
new
ideas
will
come
from
you
really
appreciating
your
own
culture.
B
A
Cool,
I
think,
thank
you
so
much
kelsey
for
sparing
your
time.
It
really
means
a
lot
to
all
of
us
here
and
then
yeah.
That's
all
I
think.
Thank
you
so
much
everyone
for
attending
this
session
hope
that
you
will
learn
a
lot
and
yeah.
Don't
just
come
to
this
event.
Ask
question
to
the
next
session
that
you
will
have
and
then
yeah.
That's
all
thank
you.
Kelsey
once
again
take
care
and
have
a
good
night.
There
see
you.
Thank
you.