►
From YouTube: Panel Discussion: Care and Feeding: Burnout and Self Care in our Community - Aaron Crickenberger
Description
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Panel Discussion: Care and Feeding: Burnout and Self Care in our Community - Aaron Crickenberger, Google; Rithu Leena, Lyft; Ashley McNamara, Microsoft; Stephen Augustus, VMware; and Noah Kantrowitz, Ridecell
Burnout has recently been discussed a lot in both the open source community and broader tech industry, but too often these discussions simply acknowledge that burnout exists. We can do better. The care and feeding of ourselves is a start. How about the care and feeding of our community? Together we will talk about the symptoms, sources, and (sometimes) solutions that we have used within the Kubernetes community to address burnout Whether you are personally struggling, know someone that is, or just want to know more about the difficulties our community faces, please join five of our community leaders in a discussion about burnout.
https://sched.co/MPZt
A
Okay
welcome.
This
is
the
last
session
in
the
community
track.
I'm
puia!
If
you
want
to
leave
early,
please
leave
so
quietly
respect
the
panel
and
everyone
who
wants
to
so
listen
to
it
with
that
said,
have
fun
with
this
panel
of
panelists
they're
gonna
talk
about
self-care
and
burnout
because
it's
super
important
issue.
B
D
D
Thank
you
for
coming
to
my
dad's
dog
all
right
good
evening
or
afternoon.
Everyone
I
am
Aaron
of
cig
beard,
also
known
as
Aaron
tricking
burger.
You
might
also
know
me
as
the
dude
who,
after
kook
on
Seattle
in
2018
tweeted,
the
hey
I,
think
it's
time
we
talk
about
mental
health
and
burnout
because
I
know
I
wasn't
the
only
person
who
broke
down
in
tears,
I
ran
into
multiple
people
who
talked
about
it
and
I
asked
like?
Did
anybody
talk
about
that
this
week?
D
I
also
managed
to
force
others
to
get
up
on
stage
and
so
I
thought
I
would
I'm
good
thanks,
though
I
thought
I
would
introduce
Ashley
McNamara,
Steven,
Augustus
Noah
I
can't
pronounce
your
last
name,
Andrew
Lena,
and
let
them
tell
you
sort
of
their
story
about
why
they
are
here
and
what
burnout
means
to
them.
So
Ashley,
we'll
start
with
you,
hi.
C
I'm
Ashley
McNamara.
Thank
you
for
being
here.
Most
of
you
are
my
friends.
That's
cool
thanks
for
showing
up
so
I
am
very
I
burn
out
a
lot,
or
at
least
I
used
to
burn
out
a
lot
I'm
an
overachiever
I
want
to
get
things
done,
I'm
also
a
single
mom.
So
that
means
that
when
I
burn
out,
I
am
not
there.
For
my
kid,
so
the
last
couple
of
years
I've
been
really
really
protective
of
my
time.
C
B
I'm
Steven
Augustus
I'm,
a
senior
cloud
native
architect
at
VMware,
so
I've
done
a
few
jobs
across
the
IT
space,
corporate
IT
right
now,
I'm
doing
cross
between
field
engineering
and
green
coat
sales.
So
a
lot
of
the
a
lot
of
the
experiences
that
I've
had
in
the
IT
field
have
essentially
been
at
small
and
mid
businesses
where
you
are
kind
of
the
owner
of
every.
B
If
you're
working
on
that
step,
and
it's
very
easy
one
I'm
kind
of
a
control
freak
about
some
of
the
things
that
I
work
on,
so
it's
very
easy
to
want
to
have
your
hands
in
things
constantly
and
I.
Think
that
you
know,
one
of
the
things
I
want
to
talk
about
most
is
like
trust,
right
trust
in
the
team
that
you
work
with
trust
in
the
managers
that
you
have
and
in
the
company
overall
that
you
that
you
get
up
and
go.
B
E
I'm
Noah
Kendricks
I
am
an
engineering
manager,
I
guess
now
at
write
self.
So
my
path
to
ear
I've
been
doing
open-source
community
work
for
15
years
now
and
I
tend
to
let's
say,
run
a
little
hot
I
am
extremely
passionate
about
making
sure
that
I
have
good
experiences
for
the
users
of
my
software
and
will
tend
to
defend
that,
basically
to
a
man.
E
But
my
my
sort
of
big
thing
these
days
has
been
trying
to
understand
empathy
and
open
source
interactions
and
figuring
out
how
to
deal
with
communities
where
everyone
is
doing
things
for
a
reason,
and
maybe
that
isn't
always
the
right
thing
to
do.
But
people
do
things
because
I
thought
it
was
the
right
thing
to
do
and
practicing
empathy
and
all
of
our
interactions.
E
F
Good
evening,
thank
you
once
again
for
coming
to
our
talk,
so
late
really
appreciate
it.
I'm
really
John
I'm,
an
open-source
maintainer
of
Dex,
which
is
a
federated
identity
provider
for
kubernetes
I,
will
get
lyft
doing
open
source
things,
and
the
reason
why
I'm
on
this
panel
to
talk
to
you
today
was
there
was
a
phase
in
my
life
when
I
was
extremely
stressed
and
super
over
walked
out
being
an
open-source,
maintainer
and
I
almost
didn't
admit
it
to
myself.
F
I
thought
this
was
expected
of
you
as
a
contributor
to
open-source
and
I
actually
needed
some
friends
that
walk
to
pull
me
out
and
be
like
hey.
What
you're
doing
is
way
too
much
so
I
think
like
any
five-step
recovery
process.
Acceptance
is
one
of
the
most
difficult
steps
and
I'm
here
to
tell
you
that
going
out
is
a
lot
more
common
than
you
think
it
is.
It's
really
healthy
to
talk
about
it
and
if
we
can,
as
a
community,
can
help
each
other
I
think
that
would
be
the
best
possible
outcome.
C
So,
like
I
said
earlier,
I'm
very
protective
of
my
team
in
burn
outs
burnt
out
person
on
my
team
is
no
good
to
me.
They
are
probably
going
to
leave
if
they're
burnt
out.
So
if
I
see
somebody
is
attending
too
many
conferences
or
too
many
talks
or
staying
up
too
late
on
slag
listening
emails
at
11:00
I
will
definitely
intervene
in
a
one-on-one
and
there's
also
kind
of
a
two-prong
thing
because
we
are
developer
advocates.
So
we
are
always
on
the
road
and
at
conferences.
You
see
a
lot
of
the
same
speakers.
C
Lots
of
them
are
developer
advocates.
So
I
also
suggest
that
my
people
find
somebody
within
the
community.
That's
an
underrepresented
person
and
give
them
an
opportunity
to
have
the
stage
instead
of
always
taking
the
stage
themselves,
because
we
don't
always
have
to
be
on
the
road
there's
other
things
that
we
could
be
so
it
definitely
starts
with
your
management.
People
will
definitely
overwork
themselves
if
they
are
passionate
about
something
but
I
think
it's
our
responsibility,
as
managers
to
step
in
and
kind
of
like
tell
them
to
pump
the
brakes
a
little
bit.
B
So
I
definitely
agree
on
the
manager
side.
I'm
I've
been
fortunate
for
the
last
few
jobs
to
have
excellent
managers
that
care
about
me
right.
Well,
you
know,
talk
over
dinner
and
do
things
like
that,
and
you
know
really
make
sure
that
the
things
that
I'm
working
on
are
the
things
that
make
me
happy
like
one
I
will
only
do
good
work
if
I'm
happy
so
I
try
to
I
try
to
seek
out
things
that
that
make
me
happy
from
the
the
kubernetes
community
perspective.
B
B
Also
one
of
the
chairs
for
sake,
release
the
you
know
the
conversations
that
we
have
around
the
work
that
we
do
in
the
community
I
think
that
it's
very
important
to
grasp
grasped
some
of
these
aspects
and
build
process
around
it,
because
the
only
way
for
us
to
onboard
new
people
into
the
process,
like
that
part
of
the
reason
that
we
get
burnt
out,
is
because
we're
doing
something
by
ourselves
right.
So
the
only
way
to
Johan
toward
new
people
to
these
processes
are
actually
build
them
in
the
first
place
right.
B
So
you
take,
you
know
you
take
someone
like
me
who
is
you
know,
chairs
a
few
things
and
has
done
six
talks
for
and
track
hosting
for
kube
gone,
and
then
you
take
someone
like
Aaron.
Who
is
you
know
on
the
steering
committee?
He
is
a
co-chair
for
sake,
testing.
He
was
a
release.
Team
lead
last
cycle.
It's
it's
one
of
those
things
where,
like
you
have
to
trust,
you
have
to
trust
more
people
to
be
able
to
build.
B
B
D
E
Unfortunately,
for
a
kubernetes
core,
we
have
the
benefit
of
many
kinds:
Fon
sirs,
helping
to
keep
the
project
alive,
both
with
donating
full-time
engineers
and
with
donating
money
and
other
resources,
but
there's
still
a
lot
of
other
projects
in
the
sort
of
kubernetes
ecosystem
that
are
entirely
volunteer,
run
that
are
extremely
critical
to
making
sure
that
the
entire
world
keeps
spinning
and
trying
to
figure
out
how?
How
do
we
get
those
projects
to
be
funded
sustainably
to
make
sure
that
they
are?
F
The
others
are
probably
lying.
I'm
sure
everyone
spent
some
time
on
that
voting.
I've
done
it
myself.
I
feel
like
everyone's
striving
to
be
that
top
contributor
to
a
project
and
I
think
we
do
a
great
job
of
celebrating
the
top
contributors
and
probably
even
the
people
who
are
pretty
new
to
the
community.
But
we
often
tend
to
forget
that
middle
tier
of
people
who
are
doing
their
work
very
diligently,
but
don't
get
celebrated
as
much
so
as
a
community
I
think
we
can
dedicate
some
more
effort
to
that.
F
For
sure,
and
another
thing
is
I-
think
a
lot
of
people
have
the
tendency
to
look
to
the
leaders
of
the
to
kind
of,
follow
that
on
and
follow
the
tones
the
same
step.
So
if
a
leader
is
over
walking
themselves
and
like
stresses
themselves
and
over
commits
people
in
the
community
tend
to
follow
the
same
ritual.
So
if
the
leaders
can
kind
of
adopt
a
more
healthy
pattern,
I
think
that
would
help
the
community
as
a
whole.
D
D
So
I
think
one
of
the
things
I
really
enjoy
about
the
kubernetes
community
in
particular,
compared
to
any
other
open-source
project
that
I've
worked
in
is
that
I
had
people
like
reach
out
to
me
just
apropos
of
nothing
like
you.
Do
it?
Okay,
there
or
gee
I
see
you're
in
a
lot
of
places.
It's
happened
multiple
times
this
week
over
this
conference.
D
I
just
wanted
to
illustrate
one
of
them
real
fast,
where
we
were
all
supposed
to
meet
up
before
him
this
morning
and
I
kind
of
overslept
I
didn't
I,
didn't
quite
make
it
there,
because
I
had
been
up
until
you
know
midnight
hanging
out
with
20
or
30
of
my
closest
friends
and
then
I
came
back
and
I
had
to
respond
to
some
emails
from
people
who
are
in
a
time
zone.
That
is
not
here
and
I,
told
Noah.
D
C
I
draw
gophers,
thank
you.
People
yeah
first
wearing
my
gopher
t-shirts,
I
started
out
with
a
Halloween
gopher
and
it
kind
of
spiraled
from
there
and
now
tons
and
tons
and
tons
of
projects
that
Gophers
made
hundreds
of
Gophers
I
do
this
in
my
spare
time,
which
means
a
work
all
day
and
then
I
go
home
and
I
draw
Gophers.
It's
not
just
an
evening
thing.
It
takes
me
like
a
week
to
get
one
done.
So
I
was
definitely
burning
myself
out
on
that
alone,
and
my
good
friend
Steve
Francia
said.
Can
you
just
stop?
C
G
C
Can't
who
else
is
gonna?
Do
this
so
I
sent
out
a
tweet
like?
Are
there
any
other
designers
out
there?
Please
tell
me:
there
are
other
designers
out
there
so
now
I
have
a
list
of
people
that
I
can
refer,
people
to
and
I'm
better
about
saying
no,
but
I
felt
like
I
needed
to
do
that,
because
people
were
relying
on
me.
I
didn't
feel
like
there
was
anyone
else
that
could
do
that,
which
is
ridiculous
or
hundreds
absence
of
people
that
could
be
drawing
things,
but
maybe
not
for
free.
B
B
But
what
he
meant
was,
you
know
we
have
a
lot
of
things
that
are
on
our
plates
collectively
and
that
it
would
be
good
to
turn
down
on
some
of
those
things
or
figure
out
how
to
transfer
it,
and
he
would
be
my
essentially
you
know
my
my
spiritual
partner
in
terms
of
figuring
out
how
to
do
that,
and
you
know
this
talk
itself.
I
think
was
you
know,
synthesized
from
all
of
us
being
burnt
out
at
cube,
con
Seattle
and
just
sitting
down.
B
You
know
people
were
inviting
us
out
like
hey,
you
know
and
I
was
like
I,
don't
want
to
see
people
at
all
right
now
and
I,
but
we
were
all
on
Twitter
talking
about
like
I'm
in
my
hotel,
the
room
like
I've
got
the
curtain
shut
I'm,
not
talking
to
people
right
now
outside
of
my
internet
friends,
and
you
know
we
were
all
talking
about
burn.
We
were
like
wait.
This
is
you
should
talk
about
it
on
a
stage
right,
so
this
is
the
second
time
we're
doing
this
panel
and
I.
B
Think
that
you
know
just
having
the
communication
having
the
open
communication
week.
It's
I
think
that's
what's
most
important
to
all
the
things
that
we're
talking
about
talking
with
your
managers
talking
with
the
community
talking
with
people
who
can
fund
these
efforts,
it's
it's
all
about
being
like
incredibly
vocal
about
the
fact
that
we're
all
feeling
the
same
way
there
so.
E
Yeah
my
my
favorite
example
of
this
is
actually
the
one
that
Nikita
showed
in
her
keynote
earlier
in
the
week.
The
the
picture
of
the
silly
hats
nights
in
in
the
state
contributor
experience
meetings,
it's
actually
been
one
of
one
of
the
high
points
of
working
with
Sikh
interpreter
experience
is
that
we
we
make
sure
to
take
time
and
the
sake
to
treat
each
other
like
people,
instead
of
cogs
in
a
machine
that
slowly
closed
github
issues.
F
Used
to
be
the
kind
of
person
who
would
get
a
github
notification
at
12
a.m.
in
the
night,
it'll
be
some
random
strange
on
the
internet.
Saying
hey
I,
want
this
feature
out
of
Dex
tomorrow,
and
I
would
feel
guilty
enough
to
spend
my
entire
night
walking
on
that
feature
and
delivering
it
probably
not
to
get
a
lot
of
gratitude
at
the
end.
F
But
I
would
do
it
anyway,
and
two
of
my
friends
sat
me
down
and
had
me
practice
saying
no
to
people,
and
this
helped
me
a
lot
so
I
think
just
being
there
for
one
another,
and
if
you
see
somebody
going
through
this
call
it
out
and
try
to
help
them
out
of
it.
That's
the
biggest
ass.
We
can
ask
for
my
community
right
because
I
feel
like
that
goes
a
very,
very
long
way.
Something
that's
helped
me.
F
B
A
quick
shout
out
to
Dalton
Hubbell,
actually
he's
probably
one
of
the
people
you're
talking
about
yeah,
so
Dalton
is
one
of
the
maintainer
zuv
typhoon,
kubernetes
distribution
and
if
you've
ever
I
followed
his
repo,
because
I
used
to
do
a
fork
of
typhoon
and
if
you
ever
take
a
look
at
Dalton's
clothes
notifications.
Basically
for
people
who
request,
features
that
he's
just
not
going
to
work
on
there
I
mean
they're,
brilliant
I
mean
it's
greg
ago,
but
I
mean
they're
brilliant,
I
think
they're.
B
You
know
they're
they're,
not
too
Curt,
but
they're
they're,
saying
like
I
respect
my
time
and
I
respect
the
direction
of
this
project
and
I'm
like
I
know
that
this
is
a
feature
I'm
not
going
to
implement
right
so
being
able
again
to
have
those
clear
boundaries
about
what
you
will
and
will
won't
work
on
is
good.
That.
C
D
Yeah
I
was
gonna,
say
one
of
the
one
of
the
things
I've
tried
in
I
made
a
readme
for
myself
and
github,
which
just
feels
like
the
height
of
the
ego,
but
it's
there
and
one
of
the
things
I
put
in
it
is
that
here's
how
you
can
reach
me
right
now,
since
I'm
all
about
kubernetes
kubernetes
FLAC.
It's
the
only
place
that
actually
notifies
me,
but
it
only
notifies
me
during
business
hours
and
then
everything
else
is
explicitly
best-effort,
email,
personal
or
corporate
internal
chat.
D
D
C
The
same
everything
is
shut
off
by
everything
I
tweeted
about
this.
Recently,
oh
sweet
everything
is
shut
off
at
5:00.
If
it
is
a
truly
emergency,
people
have
my
number.
They
can
call
me,
but
otherwise
I
am
very,
very
strict
about
my
time
as
a
single
mom
after
5:00.
That
is
my
time
with
my
kid.
After
9:00,
when
he
goes
to
sleep,
that
is
my
time.
I
am
NOT.
Coming
back
on,
my
computer
I
need
my
time
so
I'm
murdering
people
the
next
day.
It's
not
it's
not
for
me.
It's
for
you.
B
So
I'm
not
sure
that
I
found
the
right
balance
for
this
just
yet
I
try
to
not
look
at
certain
notifications.
I
also
try
to
delineate
the
kubernetes
that
I
do
for
work
and
kubernetes
that
I
do
for
play.
So
there
are
certain
efforts
that
we
drive
at
VMware
that
I
need
to
be
ahead
of,
and
those
are
the
ones
that
I
will
work
on
during
the
work
day
and
like
cluster
API.
B
Asher
is
something
that
I
won't
maintain
in
the
night
time,
if
I
feel
like
it,
but
outside
of
that,
it's
its
right
notifications
try
to
try
to
get
the
notifications
off.
Try
not
sort
of
like
try
to
it
like
unless
it's
an
emergency,
don't
answer
it
right,
like
people
know
how
to
reach.
You
I
think
that
you
know
this
definitely
comes
from
time.
B
In
a
hurry
and
correction
engineering,
I
was
working
at
a
late
stage,
startup
who
had
acquired
another
startup,
and
it
spent
a
year
of
like
developer
time,
basically
like
integrating
their
AWS
infrastructure
into
like
their
bare
metal
infrastructure,
and
they
were
like
we're
not
gonna.
Do
that
again,
we're
just
gonna
find
one
person
who
can
do
that
and
so
I
started
building
out
this,
like
bridge
between
these
two
infrastructures,
but
I
was
on
basically
I
was
24/7
on-call
for
that
product
team.
That's
also
occasionally
in
the
global
operations
on
call.
B
E
E
Not
make
my
phone
make
noise
yeah
also
I
am
NOT
a
big
fan
of
technical
solutions
to
social
problems,
but
I
will
say
that
github
has
a
lot
of
metadata
in
there
email,
notifications
and
the
kind
of
dork
that
writes
a
lot
of
proc
mail
filters
around
those
and
that
has
been
actually
fairly
effective
at
tracking
things.
Like
was
this
a
PR
that
I
you
know,
I
have
commented
on.
Was
this
PR
that
I
opened
and
using
those
to
help
to
prioritize
things
versus
to
sort
of
the
raw
feed
of
everything?
That's
going
on
kubernetes?
E
Don't
ever
do
that.
That's
a
positive
I
actually
did
at
one
point
read
every
single
thing
that
went
into
the
enhancements
repo
every
every
comment.
No,
that
was
to
be
fair.
This
was
like
a
year
and
a
half
ago.
It's
gotten
a
lot,
let's
not
say
worse,
it's
gotten
better
things
are
moving
faster.
I,
wouldn't
recommend
that
anybody
try
to
keep
up
with
that.
Firehose
anymore,
though,.
F
Yeah,
like
I,
said
before
I
do
turn
off
my
kid.
Have
notifications
as
soon
as
I
leave
walk
and
even
during
the
workday
when
I
do
get.
Let's
say
an
issue
about
debts:
I
try
to
realize
how
important
it
is
if
someone's
calling
out
a
security
bug,
that's
probably
something
I
should
fix
immediately
and
I'm
very
thankful
to
this
person,
but
otherwise
I
try
to
respond
with
a
milestone
or
I
point
them
to
my
roadmap,
which
are
usually
defined
very
well
and
say:
hey.
F
This
doesn't
really
fit
right
now
in
the
roadmap,
I
will
try
to
address
it
later
or
I'm
open
to
somebody
else.
Opening
a
PR
and
I'll
review
it,
but
I
try
to
categorize
it
so
that
I
point
them
to
my
goal
of
map
and
say
it
does
know
a
little
bit
or
I
can
address
it
at
a
later
time
and
that's
worked
out
pretty
well
so.
B
D
C
B
E
F
The
same
lines
be
empathetic
to
the
people
who
you
walk
with.
Do
you
want
to
others
what
you
want
to
be
done?
Unto
yourselves
I,
think
that
goes
a
long
way
and
I've
gotten
issues
before
whether
you're,
like
oh
I,
need
to
fix
this
immediately,
just
be
a
little
more
kind
with
your
words,
I
mean
everyone's
doing
the
best
they
can
so
empathy
does
go
a
long
way
also.
E
E
We're
not
running
nuclear
missiles,
we're
not
running
airplanes.
Let's
everyone
can
just
sort
of
like
occasionally
it's
easy
to
get
caught
up
in
how
much
we
want
to
see
things
improve,
but
it
you
can.
You
can
occasionally
sort
of
reorient
yourself
and
try
to
remember
that
people
are
always
more
important
than
technology.
I
mean.
B
One
more
thing
about
that
like
we
are,
we
are
also
a
global
community,
so
it's
so
I
think
you
know
being
kind
of
present
about
the
time
zones
that
people
might
live
in
and
and
how
they
might
feel
obligated
to
respond
to
something,
even
if
it's
an
off
time
for
them.
So
definitely
consider
that
as
you
as
you
decide
to
like
hey
I
need
my
thing
right
now.
Please
cool.
D
Yeah
I
not
tended
on
a
super
serious
note
before
we
go
to
questions,
but
in
all
of
the
readings
that
I
looked
at
first
off
I
think
a
common
theme,
I
I
hear
here
is
take
break
and
get
away
from
it.
It's
not
that
important,
so
I
hear
that
Express
sometimes
and
like
have
a
hobby
that
doesn't
involve
computers
or
shut
it
down.
If
I
go
in
your
light
or
maybe
go
on
a
three-day
weekend,
they're
gonna
take
a
vacation
or
something
it's
really
bad
see.
D
D
We
recognize
that
you
may
not
be
as
trapped
as
you
think
you
are,
but
something
that's
that's
pretty
important
to
me
is
not
underestimated
or
now
I
heard
somebody
talk
about
how
they
felt
really
burnt
out,
and
then
they
went
on
like
a
three-day
vacation
to
Ireland
and
they
came
back
and
they
felt
better,
so
they
weren't
burnt
out
anymore.
That's
not
for
now.
D
That's
just
like
being
really
stressed
out
and
it's
oh,
it's
totally
cool
and
it's
okay
to
get
stressed
out
and
all
that
stuff
burnout
to
me.
I
felt,
like
I've,
got
a
more
visceral
depiction
of
that
for
this
talk
by
as
Yoram
itazu
formerly
of
docker,
it's
called
live
three
to
close
on
a
fact:
ilene
be
pc
de
ma,
vie
the
most
difficult
refactoring
of
my
life
and
he
talked
about
how
he
read
up
a
pun
about
burnout
and
he
saw
all
these
talks
about
burnout
and
he
felt
super
educated
about
it.
D
It
totally
wouldn't
happen
to
him
and
then
things
stopped
getting
fun
and
then
he
had
trouble
sleeping
and
he
had
trouble
eating
and
all
that
stuff
and
it
took
them
a
while
to
realize.
Oh,
he
may
be,
he
was
burnt
out
and
he
finally
did
something
about
it.
He
took
like
a
two-week
break
and
he
came
back
and
he
thought
he
was
better
and
then
kind
of
came
back
to
that
place
again
and
finally
realized.
He
needed
a
super,
hard
break
and
again
fortunate
enough
to
be
able
to
take
that.
D
But
it
took
months
months
of
time
to
walk
away
from
it.
That
can
be
very
real
and
very
difficult,
which
is
why
it's
so
important
to
talk
about
it
early
on,
take
breaks
and
catch
it
early
on
I
just
want
to
stress
the
importance
of
like
if
you
take
a
break
and
you
come
back
and
you
still
feel
the
same
way.
That's!
Okay!
It's
not
you!
You're
not
broken
like
burnout,
is
very
tough
and
difficult.
We're
all
here
to
talk
about
it.
So
with
that.
Well,.
C
D
C
D
I
will
just
answer
real
briefly.
A
number
of
the
people
who
reached
out
to
me
and
made
me
think,
like
oh
wow,
somebody
notices,
somebody
cares
where
people
who
are
not
leaders
they're
just
other
people
like
me,
which
is
actually
more
meaningful
and
important
to
me.
It
felt
like
somebody,
you
know
right
alongside
me,
is
going
through
the
same
thing,
which
is
really
empowering
that.
B
Yeah
I
would
say
again:
it
really
comes
back
to
communication.
I.
Think
that
I
think
that
you
know
in
some
of
the
roles
that
we're
in
we
don't
realize
that
we
are
leaders
like
Ashley.
You
actually
have
a
management
role
and
you
also
have
a
management
role,
but
but
with
you,
myself
and
Aaron
are
senior
engineers
essentially
right,
but
you
know
the
things
that
we
do
on
the
community
side.
B
Is
you
know
our
kind
of
leadership
II
right,
so
it's
I
think
it's
hard
to
draw
that
boundary
between
between
the
two
but
like
some
of
the
work
that
happens
in
I
think
look
recognizing
a
problem
in
general
having
a
discussion
about
it
and
figuring
out
how
to
automate
it
away.
Maybe
right
I
think
that
you
know
the
the
work
that
in
Trebek's
does
the
work
that
tests
infer
does
is
incredibly
important
to
our
community
and
and
I.
Think
it's
all
it's
all,
because
it's
cognizant
of
the
real
problems
that
we
have
day-to-day.
B
It's
like
I,
don't
want
to
review
I,
don't
want
review
PRS
at
certain
times
or
I,
don't
want
to
I,
don't
have
to
go
through
this
process.
Alright,
I
don't
have
to
check
for
spell
checks
or
think
like
really
simple
things
that
like
remove
that
burden,
recognizing
that
and
trying
to
help
people,
because
you
realize
I'm,
not
the
only
one
who
might
be
having
this
problem
I
think
is
important.
It's.
E
Also,
giving
a
little
bit
off
topic
but
leadership
in
open-source
projects.
Probably
it's
a
lot
less
solid
than
it
may
look
from
the
outside
leaders
and
open-source
communities
are
generally
the
people
that
show
up.
So,
if
you
think
you're
not
in
a
leadership
role
and
you'd
like
to
help
congratulations,
you
can
become
a
leader
just
show
up
and
do
the
work
and-
and
you
will
help
the
people
beside
you
and
behind
you,
yeah.
F
And
I
think
something
that
everybody
can
do
is
if
you
see
that
anybody
in
the
project
is
getting
a
little
bit
burnt
out,
you
can
always
reach
out
and
be
like
hey
I
have
some
phat
time.
I
can
help
out
a
lot
of
leaders
have
time
I
mean
you
might
have
a
little
bit
of
trouble
delegating.
So
if
you
can
make
that
first
step
and
be
like
hey
I
have
some
free
time
I'll.
Do
it
they'll
be
more
than
happy
to
like
go
like
here's.
K
Yeah,
so
these
covers
a
little
bit
of
the
same,
but
basically,
if
you
have
a
colleague
yeah
like
I'm,
not
in
a
leadership
position
but
I
have
a
colleague
that
I'm
seeing
kind
of
pretends
to
be
Superman
but
and
I,
seeing
that
can
like
I,
don't
think
this
is
going
to
work
out
in
the
long
run,
but
they
have
not
burned
out
yet
but
I'm
trying
to
help,
but
they
think
they're,
always
fine.
Fine
I
can
do
this.
It's
no
problem!
C
E
E
L
Actually,
a
simple
social
trick
to
that.
If
that
person
doesn't
listen
to
you
find
somebody
has
an
an
authority,
I
mean
the
social
Authority
for
that
person
and
convinced
to
convey
this
message
and
then
he
will
listen
at
least
slightly.
He
will
listen
if
he
doesn't
listen
to
you,
because
it's
important
at
least
he
should
know
that
when
he
will
start
feeling
bad
will
start
feeling
burnout.
He
should
just
approach
and
then
start
talking,
and
this
is
the
simple
trick
so.
M
So
I
am
struggling
with
learning
all
the
things
and
I
feel
that,
because
I'm
learning,
all
the
time,
I'm
also
slower
at
the
work
that
I
do
so
I
feel
often
this
pressure
to
work
more
because
it
takes
me
longer
to
get
things
done
and
if
I'm
measuring
things
by
how
how
much
I
get
done,
it
just
takes
me
longer
than
other
people
or
I
think
so,
maybe
or
I
don't
know.
What
would
you
tell
someone
who's
learning
and
working
to
how
to
manage
that?
I.
C
Am
my
own
worst
enemy
I?
Do
this
exact
same
thing
since
I?
Don't
have
a
CS
degree,
I'm
self-taught
I
feel
like
I
need
to
know
all
of
the
things
all
of
the
time
it
took
me
a
really
long
time
to
understand.
I
did
not
need
to
know
all
of
the
things
all
of
the
time,
but
something
that
I
do,
especially
for
we're
learning,
as
advocates
we
learn
all
day
every
day.
C
So
for
my
reports
and
for
myself,
we
block
out
time
during
the
work
day
to
learn
things
I,
don't
see
any
reason
why
other
managers
don't
do
that,
especially
if
it
pertains
to
your
job
if
you're
contributing
to
open
source,
and
it's
it's
a
product
that
you're
using
for
your
job.
You
should
be
able
to
take
time
during
your
work
day
to
contribute
to
that.
So.
B
I
think
when
it's
important
to
one
realize
you're,
not
that
man-
and
you
know
too,
that
it's
working
at
like
small
businesses
or
our
startups
or
in
the
open-source
community,
is
like
a
time
multiplier,
all
right.
So
working
on
kubernetes
for
years
like
doing
something
for
five
years-
and
you
know,
and
and
as
Ashley
was
saying
you
don't
need
to
know
it
all
I
think
what's
really
important
is
to
try
to
target
one
to
three
things
that
you're
really
interested
in
and
find
the
time
to
work
on
those
things.
B
It's
the
you
know,
there's
the
whole.
You
know
practicing
for
a
coding
interview
or
something
like
that
right
and
and
you're
you're
learning
all
these
questions
that,
like
you
end
up
not
using
at
the
job
you're
like
I,
don't
need
to
implement
doubly-linked
lists.
Okay,
in
my
day
to
day,
work
right
so
like.
Why
do
I
need
to
learn
it
for
this
interview
right?
So
choosing
the
things
that
you
you
actually
need
to
learn
and
care
about
are
important.
B
N
I
noticed
one
thing
is
I've
been
talking
to
people
throughout
the
conference's
that
everyone
or
not
a
lot
of
people
were
paid
to
work
on
kubernetes
and
scenes
you
have
stuff
is
that
they
are
paid
to
work
on
things
that
help
out
their
vendor,
but
then
they
also
really
care
about
the
community,
and
so
they're
on
cig
contribute
experience.
They're
on
sick
dogs
aren't
accustomed
to
and
what
is
contributing
to
their
burnout.
Is
that
that's
not
what
they're
getting
their
bonuses
for
not
what's
going
to
their
nine-to-five?
N
That's
not
what
they're
getting
paid
for
right!
It's
like
how
do
you
help
them
juggle
between
their
getting
paid
or
whatever,
like
that's
what
they're
putting
in
all
their
work
for,
but
then
they're
on
top
of
that
they're
doing
all
these
other
things
to
help
the
kubernetes
community
as
well
like?
How
do
you
juggle
trying
to
make
the
community
better,
but
then
also
trying
to
do
I?
Guess
your
job.
F
And
to
add
to
your
point
so
I
used
to
get
paid
for
this
Koro
I
know
long
I
do
but
I
feel
like
the
revolt
attached
to
contributing
to
open
source
is
a
lot
higher,
because
you
learn
a
lot
more
and
you
learn
a
lot
faster.
The
quality
of
cord,
an
open
source
is
usually
much
higher
than
you'll
find
at
any
cooperation.
F
E
As
a
more
kubernetes
specific
thing
and
again,
I
can
mostly
speak
to
contributes
because
that's
where
I
spend
a
lot
of
my
time,
we
recently
had
someone
that
had
to
step
back
for
a
couple
of
weeks
and
I
was
very
impressed
with
the
degree
to
which
the
whole
cig
entirely
supported
that
person.
This
was
a
no-questions-asked.
We
totally
understand
take
some
time
and
you
know
come
back
and
and
do
your
thing,
and
that
is
a
culture
that
I
think
that
we
can
all
reinforce
and
improve
in
all
of
our
sakes.
Yeah.
B
B
G
Yeah,
oh,
we
we've
been
talking
about
different
about
different
strategies,
how
we
can
prevent
turn
outs,
but
my
question
is:
how
are
they
really
effective
from
your
experience?
So
how
often
do
you
have
burned
out
right
now?
Let's
say
how
often
let's
say
how
much
time
per
year
or
something
like
that
any
metric
as.
E
D
Yeah
I
was
gonna,
say
what
are
the
big
personal
metrics
that
Jerome
quoted
in
his
talk
is
like
when
things
that
used
to
be
fun
are
no
longer
fun,
like
I
find
Nick
they're
hard
periods
of
time
where
it's
like
I,
don't
want
to
watch
anything
I,
don't
to
read
anything
I
want
to
play
anything
everything
I
play,
my
guitar
isn't
really
working.
Even
the
drums
is
boring.
That's
a
danger
sign
for
sure
and
there's
nothing.
I
can
do
about
it
in
the
moment
other
than
recognize
it.
It's.
B
Helpful
and
something
that
happens
once
burnout
happens.
Is
it
like
it's?
It's
a
it's.
It's
important
to
realize
that
it's
a
cycle
right,
you
kind
of
like
you
like,
oh
crap,
it
happened
and
it
doesn't
really
go
away
right.
You
kind
of
you
feel
better
after
a
while
and
you
kind
of
flip
blockers
in
place
to
protect
yourself
whether
it's
there's
people,
whether
it's
the
kind
of
things
that
you
work
on
day
to
day,
but
it
doesn't,
it
doesn't
go
away
right.
D
J
J
How
do
you
deal
with
the
pause
penalty,
which
is
when
I
stop
nothing
around
me
stops,
and
it
just
means
that
when
I
come
in
after
whatever
habilitation
period
I
take
for
myself,
things
are
just
ten
times
worse
like
what
are
some
practical
things
would
do
about
that.
How
do
you
deal
with
that?
Like,
for
example,
I'm
imagining
my
inbox
when
I
get
back
to
work,
you
know
in
Monday
is
gonna
be
just
like
so.
B
So
I
think
so
I
had
mentioned
earlier
that
the
I
think
it's
important
to
put
some
sort
of
process
place.
I'm
I'm,
definitely
feeling
exactly
what
you're
saying
right
now,
with
a
like
the
six
pm
and
some
of
the
address
up
and
released
up
and
and
saying
like
okay.
Well,
we
need
more
process
right.
We
need
to
so
when
someone
steps
back
right,
we
know
exactly
what
to
do
right.
There's
a
you
know.
So
you
know
one
of
the
one
of
the
examples
is
the
patch
release
management.
B
The
patch
release
manager
for
the
the
release
team
are
for
sick
release
overall
right,
that
is
one
person
who
signs
up
to
do
a
job
and
they
essentially
assign
up
to
do
this
job
for
the
for
the
entirety
of
that
kubernetes
minor
release
cycle
right,
which
is
essentially
a
year
which
I
don't
think
people
realize
when
they
start
to
do
it
right.
So
you
know
one
of
the
things
that
we're
putting
in
place
is
a
patch
release
management
team
right.
B
C
D
Very
unapologetic
about
taking
slack
time
I'm
here
for
a
week,
it's
gonna
at
least
take
two
weeks
to
recover
from
all
of
it.
Happily
and
like
that's,
okay,
I've
told
myself,
like
that's
just
the
way,
it
is
anybody
who
has
a
problem
with
that
is
not
me,
and
it's
not
experiencing
my
state
of
mind
right
now.
So.