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Description
Don’t miss out! Join us at our upcoming events: EnvoyCon Virtual on October 15 and KubeCon + CloudNativeCon North America 2020 Virtual from November 17-20. Learn more at https://kubecon.io. The conferences feature presentations from developers and end users of Kubernetes, Prometheus, Envoy, and all of the other CNCF-hosted projects.
The New Stack "Pancake Breakfast": Is Kubernetes Boring Yet? What’s on Your Stack?
Kubernetes is boring and that’s a good thing. It’s what’s on top of Kubernetes that counts. So join us for a short stack with The New Stack as we ask: “What’s on your stack?” We’ll pass the virtual syrup, and talk about all that goes with Kubernetes. It may be stateless, but that also means there’s plenty of room for sides.
https://sched.co/ZfUb
A
A
A
I'm
gonna
start
with
the
syrup
here
and
put
them
on
my
pancakes.
I
think
one
of
the
things
I
wanted
to
do
is
just
let's
just
share
a
little.
Let's
a
little
share
a
little
amsterdam
here,
look
at
those
pancakes,
so
that's
from
a
restaurant
in
amsterdam,
oh
good
old,
amsterdam,
what
a
wonderful
place
it
is!
Is
this
supposed
to
be
a.
A
I
know
I
think
it
is
it
feels
like
that.
Doesn't
it
so,
in
any
case,
I
want
to
just
thank
you
all
again
for
being
here,
and
our
discussion
really
is
about
is
kubernetes
boring
yet,
and
I
want
to
ask
that
question
you
know,
and
specifically,
what's
on
your
stack,
we're
talking
pancakes
here,
we
might
as
well
talk
about
technology
stacks,
and
one
of
the
things
that
we
are
seeing
is
it's.
A
What's
on
top
of
kubernetes
that
counts
infrastructure
is
almost
becoming
boring,
as
some
people
would
say,
craig
mcluckie
calls
it
a
natural
substrate
that
is
just
becoming
part
of
what
we
do.
Kelsey
hightower
would
say
that
the
that
the
plumbing
works
now
it's
important.
What's
on
top
of
it,
so
that's
the
question
I
really
want
to
ask
today
and
priyanka.
Maybe
I
can
start
with
you,
you
know
is
kubernetes
boring
yeah
is
is
the
plumbing
working
is?
B
Yes,
absolutely,
I
think
kubernetes
is
getting
close
to
boring
and
we
are
very
proud
of
that.
It's
a
good
thing.
It's
solid
and
mature
and
that's
equivalent
to
boring-
and
I
say,
kudos
to
the
community
and
ecosystem
for
getting
there.
I
think
the
in
all
seriousness.
This
is
not
something
to
underestimate,
just
because
of
all
the
hard
work
that
goes
into
making
something
stable
and
reliable.
B
I
think,
though,
while
the
core
technology
itself
might
be
approaching
boring,
I
don't
think
that's
the
case
for
all
the
surrounding
ecosystem
around
it.
If
you
think
specifically,
let's
say,
carrier
networking,
there's
a
tremendous
opportunity
for
telecoms
to
modernize
their
infrastructure
needs
and
reduce
operating
costs,
and
that's
something
there's
a
lot
of
work
going
on
with
like
conjunction
of
cncf
and
linux
foundation,
networking
in
which
lots
of
telcos
are
involved.
So
that's
an
area
where
I
see
a
lot
of
interesting
happening
soon,
currently
happening
and
continuing
to
evolve.
B
I
think
those
use
cases
will
become
more
and
more
popular
people
will
see
that.
Additionally,
I
think
by
using
kubernetes
you
come
up
with
new
challenges
as
as
a
as
a
software
company
as
a
engineering
organization,
and
that
space,
I
think,
is
still
there's
a
lot
of
innovation
happening.
I
mean,
I
think,
very
recently,
it's
kind
of
become
clear
that
it's
that
service
meshes
are
very
important
and
it's
going
to
be
a
multi-mesh
world.
So
that's
awesome.
B
A
Honey
I'd
like
to
ask
you
this
question:
priyanka
was
just
talking
about
service
match,
which
is
an
interesting
topic
these
days,
she's
talking
about
the
support
of
multiple
service,
meshes
and
she's
talking
a
lot
about.
I
think
what
comes
down
to
participation
in
the
community
and
who
actually
is
represented
and
how
they
get
represented
properly,
which
plays
a
big
part
in
developer
experiences,
which
plays
a
big
part
in
the
actual
technology
architectures
themselves.
So
johnny,
what's
your
thought
on
the
architectures
of
today
and
the
plumbing
itself
and
what's
being
built
on
top?
E
E
So
in
terms
of
innovation,
we
are
going
to
see
a
lot
of
advancements
when
it
comes
to
service
mesh.
Now
whether
it
is
multi-cluster
federated
service,
mesh,
hybrid
service
mesh,
which
will
cut
across
on-prem
public
cloud
and
hybrid
cloud,
it
is
going
to
be
a
very,
very
important
technology
and
it
is
also
the
foundation
for
the
developer
experience
on
top
of
kubernetes.
B
D
So
anything,
that's
really
beyond
the
microservices
development
inside
of
kubernetes
is
really
fascinating
to
me.
So
a
lot
of
the
team
has
already
talked
about
things
like
functions
running
inside
of
kubernetes,
but
then
the
service
meshes
as
well
as
simplifying
the
deployment
and
automating
a
lot
of
these
other
processes
and
procedures
that
need
to
be
able
to
be
deployed
inside
of
these
environments,
in
order
for
management
to
be
able
to
be
maintained,
there's
life
cycle
management,
solutions
and
testing
solutions,
and
all
these
other
different
types
of
components
that
it's
not
boring.
A
Patrick
and
transitioning,
here
into
this
larger
discussion
when
we
start
to
look
at
you
know
the
actual
deployments
out
there.
One
of
the
things
that
we
found
in
our
research
and
it's
in
our
ebook
that
we're
publishing
in
the
next
week
or
two
about
kubernetes
is
really
the
second
edition
of
it.
A
little
shameless
plug
there
download
now.
A
We
we
were
finding
that
the
deployments
with
more
than
five
clusters
have
continued
to
rise,
but
mostly
among
larger
companies
and
I'm
curious
what
this
says
to
you
about
the
trajectory
of
growth
and
adoption
for
kubernetes-
and
you
know,
there's
there's
projects
here
that
I
think
speak
to
that.
But
perhaps
you
have
some
thoughts
there
on
on
the
actual
growth
and
adoption
of
kubernetes,
as
it
relates
to
clusters.
C
Yeah
I
mean
when
it
comes
to
application
infrastructure.
Kubernetes
is
clearly
establishing
itself
as
like.
This
is
the
way
to
do
it
and
across
clouds
on-prem.
Wherever
you
are,
I
think,
there's
to
kind
of
go
back
to
this.
Is
it
boring?
Yet?
No,
it's
actually
super
exciting
right
now
we're
at
the
end
of
the
beginning,
kubernetes
as
it
grew.
You
know-
and
this
is
just
me
as
an
infrastructure
guy.
C
I
think
it's
replaced
the
app
server,
and
so
you
see
that
deployment
you're
not
going
to
see
deployments
of
jboss
and
websphere
you're,
going
to
see
deployments
of
kubernetes
and
what's
really
interesting
now
is-
and
I
and
you
know
that
I
work
quite
a
bit
in
this
with
there's
just
like
communities
popping
up
around
data
in
kubernetes
and
that's
the
missing
link
right
now.
I
just
did
a
talk
this
week
about
is
kubernetes
ready
for
data
and
spoiler
alert.
C
No,
it's
not
it's
built
for
applications,
and
you
see
that
growth
happening
on
the
applications
here.
We're
dumping
things
like
running
scripts,
like
I
hate
to
say
it
that
things
like
chef
and
terraform
are
now
going
away.
I
love
those
tools,
but
you
know
they're
they're
starting
to
go
away.
Service
mesh
is
becoming
more
the
standard,
but
that
growth
in
clusters
is
really
on
the
applications
here
on
the
application.
Tier.
A
What
are
the
issues
that
people
are
facing
that
is
causing
the
that
is
leading
to
improvements
in
the
technology
and
craig
mcclucky
again
brought
this
up
in
a
podcast?
We
did,
and
he
said
that
it's
it's
not
necessarily
the
innovation
of
the
individual.
It's
the
problems
that
they're
facing
and
the
problems
that
they
face
lead
to
that
need
those
new
improvements.
What
are
the
problems
that
we're
seeing,
for
instance,
in
the
data
plane
that
are
leading
to
new
improvements.
E
Sure
so
alex
can.
I
can
I
address
the
first
one
as
well
enterprises
using
beyond
five
clusters
and
then
I'll
come
back
to
the
data
plane.
So
you
know
a
decade
ago
the
the
entire
industry
was
talking
about
what
was
called
as
vm
sprawl.
You
know
remember
when
vmworld,
when
vmware
was
very
popular
or
getting
popular
among
enterprises,
and
it
was
extremely
easy
to
launch
a
vm.
E
Everyone
went
ahead
and
launched
their
own
virtual
machine
and
a
lot
of
vms
were
lucking
around
in
the
enterprise
data
center,
and
it
was
very
difficult
for
enterprise
I.t
to
to
take
control
and
to
basically
do
a
stock
check
on
where
the
vms
are
running.
How
many
vms
are
running
and
whether
they
are
compliant
or
not.
Now
fast
forward
to
2020
kubernetes
is
experiencing
a
similar
cluster
sprawl
today.
E
It
is
extremely
easy
for
developers
to
push
a
button
and
deploy
a
kubernetes
cluster,
so
whether
it
is
managed
kubernetes
service
running
in
the
cloud
or
a
mini,
cube
running
on
developers
laptop
or
more
miniature
versions
of
kubernetes,
like
kind
and
k3s.
There
is
kubernetes
everywhere
and
that
is
actually
resulting
in
a
cluster
sprawl
and
again.
Enterprise
iit
is
concerned
that
they
have
absolutely
no
control
over
the
cluster
sprawl.
You
know
they.
They
are
not
able
to
basically
enforce
and
impose
certain
policies
that
are
absolutely
critical
for
enterprises.
E
So
there
are
two
parallel
streams
that
are
actually
taking
place.
One
the
industry
has
started
to
realize
that
just
the
control
plane
that
is
managing
kubernetes
is
not
not
enough
to
take
care
of
the
cluster
sprawl.
So
in
the
last
one
year
we
have
seen
the
meta
control
plane
emerge
and
this
meta
control
plane
is
the
control
plane
of
control
planes.
Right.
Google
was
the
first
to
come
out
with
anthus
and
the
code
premise
of
anthony,
says
you
run
a
kubernetes
cluster
anywhere,
we'll
manage
it
from
gcp's
control.
E
Plane
then
followed
vmware.
You
know,
with
with
hto
acquisition
and
peak
pivotal
coming
to
vmware,
they
actually
launched
a
tanzo
mission.
Control
and
tanzus
promise
is
exactly
the
same.
We
don't
care
where
you
run
your
cluster,
we
don't
care
which
flavor
of
cluster
kubernetes
cluster
we
are
running,
but
we
will
take
care
of
the
meta
control,
plane
and
then
came
azure
arc
and
then
ibm
multi-cloud
manager,
which
is
now
rebranded
as
red
hat,
advanced
cluster
manager,
and
then
we
have
rancher,
which
is
an
open
source
and
now
a
part
of
souza.
E
So
it's
it's
a
very
interesting
trend
that
we
are
seeing
in
the
in
the
industry
where
you
know
days
are
gone
when
we
are
talking
about
managing
the
set
of
machines
through
an
orchestrator
which
is
the
kubernetes
control
plane.
But
now
there
is
a
sprawl
of
clusters
and
we
actually
need
a
new
meta
layer
to
manage
these
clusters
and
that's
where
there
is
a
very
interesting
trend,
and
this
is
going
to
enable
enterprises
to
enforce
policies,
irrespective
of
where
the
clusters
are
running,
that
is,
on
the
commercial
vendor
side.
E
Now
the
cluster
api,
the
the
actual
sig
that
is
working
on
managing
the
life
cycle
of
kubernetes
clusters
from
an
existing
kubernetes
cluster,
is
picking
up
a
lot
of
momentum.
So
we'll
actually
see
how
a
kubernetes
cluster
can
spawn
a
child
cluster
and
manage
the
entire
life
cycle
just
the
way
you
do
it
with
a
pod.
E
So
these
two
trends
are
going
to
be
significantly
important
for
the
future
of
kubernetes,
the
meta
control,
plane,
the
commercial
implementation
and
then
the
cluster
api,
which
is
going
to
manage
the
life
cycle
of
kubernetes
clusters,
and-
and
this
is
going
to
put
some
kind
of
you-
know
the
the
method
to
madness
when
it
comes
to
managing
dozens
of
kubernetes
clusters.
So
that
is
a
very,
very
important
trend
that
I
want
to
call
out.
B
Here
hear
what
johnny
said.
So
thank
you
for
that
very
articulate
description.
I
think
you're
extremely
exactly
spot
on
that.
This
is
the
new
trend
and
it's
based
on
as
alex
was
asking.
What
are
the
problems
people
are
facing,
which
is
there's
clusters
fall
there's
so
much
going
on.
I
would
like
to
say
like
in
general,
like
you
know,
going
back
to
the
original
conversation
of
it's
like
you
know,
it's
like
some
people
have
more
more
than
five
clusters
on
the
rise,
etc.
It's
like
there's
no
right
size
cluster.
B
For
anyone
I
mean
you
can
easily
have
around
a
thousand
nodes
per
cluster
and,
like
that's
fine
for
certain
companies
of
certain
size,
but
the
real
issue,
as
was
johnny,
was
saying,
was
that
people
have
to
manage.
You
know
they
have
various
deployments
in
various
clouds
and
having
a
better
control
plane
that
takes
care
of.
It
is
what
helps
people
I
think,
and
the
cluster
api
is
also
like.
Supporting
that
whole
thing.
The
key
I
think
that
tells
us
is
that
the
multi-cloud
world
is
the
reality.
B
It's
here
to
stay
and
that's
a
lot
of
innovation,
not
just
in
the
cluster
management,
but
otherwise
is
going
to
happen.
With
that
in
mind,
how
can
we
help
enterprises
end
users,
big
or
small,
be
able
to
go
wherever
the
workloads
are
swap
around
workloads
easily?
The
portability
is
going
to
be
on
everybody
top
of
mind
for
everyone,
because
it's
unlikely
that
someone
will
stick
to
one
cloud
provider
or
bare
metal
or
anything
across
a
vast
amount
of
applications
and
products.
A
Patrick
one
of
the
questions
I
have
is
about
what
johnny
was
referring
to.
He
calls
these
these
these
man,
you
know
these
new
management
platforms,
these
these
kubernetes
management
platforms
that
are
emerging,
such
as
anthos,
I've
heard
them
described
as
moms
management
on
management
platforms,
and
it
also
speaks
then
to
one
of
the
the
questions
that
I
hear
a
lot
these
days
is
about
what
is
then
the
role
of
the
platform
operator?
What
are
the
roles
of
the
people
who
are
you
know
who
are?
A
Who
are
not
just
the
developers
who
are
you
know
just
want
to
just
all
they
want
to
do
is
code
that
that's
just
kind
of
their
interest.
There's
also
this
camp
of
power
users
out
there
who
want
to
know
about
the
infrastructure
they
want
to
know
what's
underneath
and
but
they
still
need
help
as
well.
You
know,
and
they
still
need
these
ways
to
manage
the
arc,
manage
their
their
their
clusters
and
we're
seeing
you
know,
for
instance,
a
datasack
you're,
building
out
operators,
and
so
I'm
wondering
how
you
piece
this.
C
I
mean
they
and
it's
interesting.
You
know
that
the
moms.
Yes,
then,
that
points
to,
I
think,
a
real.
I
think
something
that
can
be
addressed
inside
of
the
kubernetes
project,
where
you
know
there's
a
usability
gap
as
soon
as
you
see,
operators
of
operators.
You
know
that's
one
of
the
things
that
we're
trying
to
work
through,
especially
when
it
comes
to
storage
and
data,
and
things
like
that.
C
You
know
you,
you
have
all
these
dependency
management
so
and
that
could
be
a
real
potential
pitfall
for
the
project
is
when
it
becomes
over
over
stressed
and
it
becomes
impossible
to
work
with.
I
mean
for
sure
services
service
companies
such
as
the
googles
and
the
amazons
and
the
microsoft's
are
going
to
try
to
make
that
experience
a
lot
easier,
but
you
know
there's,
I
think,
there's
a
lot
of
operators
out
there
that
are
looking
for
to
reduce
the
toil,
and
I
hear
that
word.
C
You
know
all
of
these
projects
that
are
happening
are
trying
to
make
that
a
little
more
for
mortals.
I
would
say
you
know
people
that
are
just
trying
to
get
infrastructure
out
there.
Let's
get
to
it.
You
know
people
don't
want
to
run
kubernetes
to
run
kubernetes.
They
want
to
run
kubernetes
to
deploy
an
application
to
extract
value
from
their
company.
A
A
Is
we
have
these
third-party
providers
who
were
building
on
open
source,
and
then
you
have
the
managed
service
providers,
such
as
the
googles
and
the
awss
of
the
world,
but
the
the
the
googles
and
the
databases
of
the
world
may
be
more
plain
vanilla
right
than
than
what
than
what
the
third
party
provider
offers
because
of
their.
You
know
their
their
specific
kind
of
focus
on
a
particular
open
source
technology.
A
B
Yes,
absolutely
I'm
actually
very
happy
that
that's
the
case
that
you
have
the
cloud
providers
providing
at
least
the
base
level-
that's
needed
with
the
managed
solutions
for
kubernetes.
So
you
know
you
have
gke
and
aka
and,
like
you
know,
eks
all
of
that
stuff.
So
it's
that's
really
good
and
then
there's
the
more
specific
solutions
out
there
for
very
various
reasons.
B
I
think
at
the
end
of
the
day,
as
long
as
kubernetes
is
getting
in
the
hands
of
developers,
we're
good,
I
I
used
to
work
at
gitlab
before
and
they
were
doing
an
excellent
job
of
it,
but
just
by
just
connecting
the
developer
experience
into
a
whole
devops
experience,
and
this
is
not
me
trying
to
make
a
plug
for
a
certain
company.
But
rather
I
appreciate
that
mindset
where
you
know.
In
this
whole
conversation
we've
been
talking
about
mere
mortals.
B
That's
all
of
us,
you
know,
and
that
includes
devops
professionals,
that
includes
application
developers,
platform,
engineering,
there's
so
many
names
for
teams
too.
You
know
at
the
end
of
the
day,
some
tooling
that
connects
the
dots
across
these
various
job
profiles
and
experiences
is
successful,
and
luckily
we
see
all
that
happening
in
combination
with
the
managed
provider
managed
services
from
the
cloud
providers.
So
I'd
really
think
we
are
on
a
good
trajectory
for
end
users
of
all
job
titles
to
get
more
and
more
comfortable
with
kubernetes.
B
In
addition
to
tooling,
there's
also
an
aspect
of
learning,
you
know
learning
and
training
and
something
we
see
a
lot
at
cncf
is
the
big
excitement
that
people
have
for
our
certified.
Kubernetes
admin
certified
kubernetes
application,
developer
exams.
People
are
studying
hard,
there's,
like,
I
think,
5
000,
c
ads
and
10
000
cka
is
already
in
existence,
and
the
rates
are
doubling,
especially
you
know,
actually,
in
the
current
world
of
everybody
at
home,
that
there's
been
a
great
kind
of
momentum
towards
learning
more
and
understanding.
A
Johnny
before
we
get
started
with
you,
I
do
want
to
just
say
to
all
the
people
watching
this
that
you
will
have
the
opportunity
to
ask
questions
at
the
end,
and
so
they
will
have
10
minutes
for
questions
at
the
end
of
this
discussion.
Johnny.
I'm
curious
in
your
thoughts
about
that
experience.
Overall,.
E
E
One
is
the
whitis
project
now,
which
is
actually
a
cnc
of
project,
and
that
brings
up
so
that
actually
brings
up
the
ability
to
run
a
highly
scalable,
highly
available
managed
database
like
offering
on
top
of
kubernetes
cluster,
and
in
fact
the
the
core,
committers
and
founders
of
waiters
have
now
built
a
commercial
offering
called
planet
scale
db
and
planet
scale.
Db,
delivers
rds
in
amazon,
rds
or
azure
sql
like
reliability
and
scale
just
on
kubernetes.
E
A
But
now
you
have
this
issue
of
configurators
and,
like
you
know,
who
actually
does
the
configurations?
Is
it
the
developer?
Is
it
the
operations
person
and
then,
on
top
of
that,
then
you
have
all
the
policy
issues
that
come
into
play
like
who
manages
the
clusters
so
like
mulch,
so
there's
a
so
there's
some
authentication,
for
instance,
that
that
can
that
is
critical
if
you're
gonna
have
any
kind
of
really
secure
environment,
so
you
know
bill
when
you're
thinking
about
through
all
those
you
know
types
of
issues.
What
are
the?
A
D
Well,
I
think
it's.
What
is
the
overall
purpose
of
what
this
platform
is
supposed
to
provide
and
most
organizations
have
some
sort
of
initiative
to
get
time
back
to
the
developer.
Have
them
just
focus
on
creating
custom
services?
Custom
logic,
that's
going
to
move
their
business
forward,
so
anything
that
can
be
done
in
more
of
an
automated
fashion,
anything
that
can
be
taken
out
of
the
picture
for
them,
and
although
there
is
the
option
of
choice,
how
do
we
reduce
the
choices
that
they're
going
to
have
to
be
concerned
about?
D
A
A
ka,
a
kubernetes
administrator,
it's
like
we
saw
like
the
proliferation
of
dbs.
Back
in
the
day,
are
we
going
to
see
the
calibrate,
the
proliferation
of
kubernetes
administrators
priyanka?
I'm
curious
from
your
perspective.
Are
you
seeing?
Is
this
kind
of
just
a
the
way
it's
going
to
have
to
be?
If
we're
going
to
see
kubernetes
being
managed
throughout
an
organization?
A
B
Well,
not
just
us
the
end.
Users
are
big
on
it.
That's
the
thing
you
know
because-
and
you
know
I
learned
about
this
even
before
I
joined
cncf
full
time
is
my
team.
In
the
past,
one
of
them
have
was
a
cka
and
he
was
so
proud
of
it,
and
he
told
me
you
know
it's
like
it's
not
just
an
easy
cert
you
can
get
online.
I
mean
you
have
to
study
hard.
There's
like
you
know,
it's
not
multiple
choice.
You
have
to
actually
put
in
answers
and
there's
real
pride.
B
People
are
taking
in
this
deepened
knowledge
because
it's
very
meaningful,
and
so
I
think
that's
one
of
the
reasons
that
this
certification
has
really
taken
off
and
that
it
is
a
trend
I
think
in
general
about
kubernetes
admins.
Absolutely.
I
think
a
lot
of
people
also
do
this
these
exams
etc
to
even
if
they're,
not
gonna,
be
the
admin
in
their
company.
B
Like
the
person
I
was
talking
to
is
not
an
admin
in
the
company
he,
but
now
having
this
baseline
of
knowledge,
he
is
able
to
you,
know,
educate
his
team
or
you
know,
participate
in
cool
projects
that
may
otherwise
not
have
been
accessible
to
him.
So
it's
seen
as
a
job
development
incorrectly.
So
as
like
you
know,
you're
enriching
your
professional
career
by
doing
these
they're
becoming
a
kubernetes
admin.
So
I
think
that
is
a
very
healthy
thing.
B
That's
happening,
and
I
think,
with
more
and
more
of
such
people
like
popping
up
in
different
companies,
you
don't
have
to
have
everyone
take
those
exams
or
everyone
becomes
certified,
but
the
cultures
culture
becomes
very
kubernetes
friendly
you,
you
know
you
can
tap
your
neighbor
and
ask
questions
about
all
these
things
so
net-net.
I
think
that
trend
is
good
and
it's
continuing.
B
I
think
at
least
I
can
speak
to
what
we're
doing
here
in
cncf,
in
partnership
with
lf
training
we're
also
working
through.
We
just
launched
the
security,
exam,
certification
and
security
for
kubernetes,
and
we
obviously
have
the
application
developer.
One
and
the
reason
for
these
coming
out
is
again
that
that
need
for
people
to
gain
that
extra
edge
of
knowledge
as
they
go
about
their
day-to-day.
Not
everybody
who
takes
these
exams
is
in
that
full-time
role,
and
I
see
that
as
a
really
good
thing.
B
A
Boy
I
was
gonna
I
I
wanted
to
actually
let
me
think
about
that.
I
was
just
like.
I
think
my
mind
is
too.
I
think
my
mind's
on
pancakes,
so
I
was
actually
thinking
about
it.
You
know
more
so
well,
let's
transition,
maybe
the
the
better
question
really
here
is
you
know
what
are
going
to
be
the
challenges
that
companies
are
going
to
have
to
face
in
in
scaling
up,
and
it
seems
like
certification
is
a
big
part
of
it.
B
I
would
agree
with
that.
Certification
is
a
big
part
of
it,
but
of
course,
there's
many
elements
when
your
question
is
what
are
the
challenges
of
scaling
up?
That's
like
a
wide
landscape
to
answer,
but
I
think
as
one
of
them,
the
panelists
are
saying:
there's
the
technology
aspect
of
the
challenge,
and
then
there
is
the
political
or
human
side
of
the
challenge,
and
I
think
when,
as
organizations
look,
the
the
size
and
culture
of
a
company
will
determine
which
is
you
know
the
bigger
challenge
at
hand.
B
So
things
like
this
cka,
these
certifications
really
help
with
bridging
the
technology
gap
really
help
with
like
creating
a
momentum
in
term
like
at
the
grassroots
level.
At
the
same
time,
I
think
it's
extremely
important
for
the
leadership,
the
technical
leadership
in
these
companies
to
start,
like
you
know,
looking
at
examples
talking
to
other
end
users
to
just
understand:
what's
happened
for
other
people
and
design
their
own
journey
forward.
B
Everybody
is
truly
a
special
snowflake
and,
and
the
good
news
is
that,
with
the
kubernetes
becoming
boring,
that
the
the
special
snowflake
part
is
getting
less
and
less
in,
like
you
know,
there's
less
less
of
the
experience
is
going
to
be
unique,
but
you
have
a
larger
community
to
rely
on.
So
what
we
see
in
our
end
user
community,
which
I
feel
a
little
braggy
but
I'll
say
it
is
with
144
members-
is
like
the
largest
any
foundation
open
source
foundation
enjoys.
A
C
At
this
point,
and
so
huge
shout
out
to
my
sres
out
there-
and
I
think
that's
that's
that's
a
growing
field
because,
as
we
build
out
more
expertise
and
infrastructure
and
scale
infrastructure
and
reduce
the
surface
area
of
configuration,
the
getting
down
into
the
weeds,
I
mean
how
many
of
us
have
set
up
a
kernel
driver
on
a
linux
server,
not
too
many
anymore
right.
That's
just
not
a
thing
that
we're
doing
but
sres
are,
I
think,
is
the
role
I
I
counsel
young
people.
C
D
Yeah,
I
think,
overall,
in
terms
of
just
not
scaling
out
the
infrastructure
we're
talking
about.
How
do
we
scale
our
individuals
to
be
able
to
do
more?
So
when
we're
talking
about
these
sres
and
what
maybe
was
an
infrastructure
admin
in
in
the
past,
we're
talking
about
a
much
lower
ratio
in
terms
of
how
many
developers
are
actually
being
supported
by
an
individual
sre
in
today's
world,
so
there
might
be
only
a
team
of
10
sres.
That's
supporting
a
complete
enterprise
environment.
D
So
really,
when
we
talk
about
scale,
we're
not
just
talking
about
it
from
a
technology
perspective,
we're
talking
about
it
from
a
cultural
perspective,
we're
talking
about
it
from
the
underlying
automation
that
has
to
happen
in
order
to
manage
all
of
these
different
things
that
are
running
in
a
highly
highly
complex
environment.
So
it
is
a
dramatic
culture
shift,
and
I
think
that
that's
when
you
talk
about
what
needs
to
come
first,
is
you
need
to
have
that
visionary?
You
need
to
have
that
person.
D
E
So
currently
we
have
this
broad
umbrella
that
says
kubernetes
administrator,
but
what
I
actually
think
is
given
the
complexity
and
the
growing
importance
of
various
building
blocks
within
the
equipment's
ecosystem,
right,
whether
it
is
network,
whether
it
is
storage,
whether
it
is
security
or
release
management,
we
are
going
to
see
the
counterparts
of
the
traditional
administrative
roles
in
the
in
the
cloud
native
ecosystem.
So
I
think
a
year
from
now
we'll
actually
see
job
titles
that
will
say
cloud
native
storage
operations,
professional.
E
You
know,
storage,
ops,
it's
a
big
deal
and
again
an
average
developer
or
a
kubernetes
administrator
cannot
deal
with
complex
cni-based
networks
like
calico.
So
you
need
a
cloud
native
network
engineer
and
then
you
know
you
have
sres
who
will
cover
the
entire
spectrum
and
we're
going
to
have
highly
focused
specialized
devsecops
roles.
E
So
sre
today
is
like
a
very
broad
term
and
they
are
basically
doing
everything
that
they
can,
but
eventually
we
are
going
to
have
very
specialized
roles
and
job
functions
and
definitions
that
will
bring
laser
focus
to
the
building
blocks
of
kubernetes
stack.
I
think
that's
that's
where
we
are
headed
to.
A
This
has
been
really
great.
Thank
you
all
for
participating
today
and
you
know
for
our
virtual
pancake
breakfast.
I
hope
we
get
to
meet
soon
over
real
pancakes.
That
would
be
nice.
I
think
that
day
will
come
again,
but
for
now
thank
you
so
much
for
joining
us,
priyanka,
sharma,
general
manager
of
the
cncf,
it's
great
to
have
you
on
board
there.
It's
really
nice
to
see
you
in
this
role.
We've
always
been
big
fans
of
your
work.
So
congratulations
and
look
forward
to
your
leadership.
A
Johnny
karen
johnny
is
the
author
of
our
ebook
of
the
second
edition,
another
shameless
plug
for
our
kubernetes
ebook
johnny
is
such
an
authority
in
this
space
and
is
just
one
of
the
people
who
we've
known
for
years
and
really
just
they're
such
a
big
fan,
patrick
mcfadden,
chief
evangelist
for
apache
cassandra,
datastax
patrick's
been
fun
getting
to
know
you
over
the
past
few
months
in
these
recordings
and
look
forward
to
our
next
discussions
in
person.
At
some
point
and
bill
zajac,
I
mean
automation,
automation,
automation.
A
That
is
the
that's
the
theme
I
keep
hearing
from
bill
today.
So
nice
work
there
bill's
regional
director
of
solutions,
engineering
at
dynatrace
thanks
everyone
participating
questions.
You
can
ask
your
questions
here.
We
have
about
10
minutes
for
questions,
so
go
right
ahead
and
ask
away.
Thank
you
very
much.
Bye,
bye,.