►
From YouTube: The New Stack Makers Virtual Pancake Breakfast + Podcast: IT, Developer Strategies, and Open Source
Description
Don’t miss out! Join us at our upcoming event: KubeCon + CloudNativeCon North America 2021 in Los Angeles, CA from October 12-15. Learn more at https://kubecon.io The conference features presentations from developers and end users of Kubernetes, Prometheus, Envoy, and all of the other CNCF-hosted projects.
The New Stack Makers Virtual Pancake Breakfast + Podcast: IT, Developer Strategies, and Open Source - Moderators: Alex Williams, Speakers: Cheryl Hung, Itzik Reich, Nivas Iyer
It’s pancake time! How do you manage your pancake stack? That’s the question. Well, it has nothing to do with modern applications but those pancakes sure taste good! So what about that app data management? The needs are outpacing the reach of today’s DevSecOps digital transformation plans. Join us for a short stack with The New Stack and the CNCF for this Pancake & Podcast discussion with sponsor Dell Technologies to talk about how DevOps, AppSec and IT teams can best use open source projects and enterprise management tools to enable developers to be free from the overhead of IT demands and keep data secure.
We’ll look at persistent data and the role developers play with IT now that Kubernetes has emerged as the orchestration engine for at-scale architectures and microservices are taking center stage. Bring your questions for a chance to win a custom TNS spatula!
A
You
know
what
time
of
year
it
is.
You
know
what
time
of
year
it
is
it's
kubecon
time
and
know
what
that
means.
That
means
pancakes
pancake
time,
pancake
time,
global
virtual
eu
style
man.
I'm
excited
for
our
discussion
today,
talking
all
about
I.t
developer,
speed,
open
source,
we're
going
to
cover
the
range
of
topics
with
our
guests
coming
on.
First,
is
it
right,
vp
vp,
technologist
dell
technologies?
A
A
A
A
A
The
magic
of
the
internet-
I
like
it,
we
have
a
cloning
factor
here.
Teleporting
cloning.
Well,
listen!
I'm
excited
for
this
discussion
today.
Again,
it's
I.t
really
developer
strategies
in
open
source,
and
I
think
that
does
relate
a
lot
to
speed.
It
relates
a
lot
to
ecosystems
and
we're
looking,
in
particular
at
persistent
data
and
the
role
developers
play
in
this
world
where
persistent
data
is
so
critically
important,
especially
in
a
kubernetes
environment.
The
stateless
kubernetes
environment
and
kubernetes,
as
we
well
know,
as
we
well
know,
is
emerge
as
that
orchestration
engine
for
atscale
architectures.
A
A
lot
of
our
friends
and
colleagues
are
here.
Listening
in
so
hi
everyone,
this
is
say:
hi
hi
to
ella,
cubecom
folks
out
there.
Thank
you
so
much
for
showing
up
we're,
hoping
we
can
get
back
into
the
you
know
into
the
real
world
at
some
point
soon.
But
for
now
we
are
enjoying
our
breakfast
here
and
I
want
to
start
by
talking
about
what
has
happened
over
the
past
18
months.
B
Alex
so
yeah,
I
think
that
the
biggest
thing
that
I'm
seeing
from
talking
to
many
many
customers,
almost
daily
these
days,
is
that
developers,
patient
or
should
I
say
impatient
toward
getting
storage
is
on
the
rise,
which
means
that
they
want
to
treat
storage
just
like
we
all
treat
electricity
in
our
houses.
We
want
to
flip
a
button
and
within
a
magic
that's
going
to
occur.
You
know,
storage
will
basically
become
persistent
to
those
containers
and,
of
course,
in
order
for
this
to
come.
B
B
And
containers
and
kubernetes
for
some
years
now,
but
at
least
from
the
customers
conversation
that
I'm
having
in
the
past
18
months,
it's
really
becoming
mature,
like
you
see
almost
every
customer
using
kubernetes
these
days,
because
it's
the
leading
orchestrator
that
is
out
there.
So
every
conversation
is
almost
already
getting
into
a
step
where
the
customer
know
what
they
want
to
use,
but
they're,
just
looking
for
ways
to
ensure
that
the
storage
array
will
become
an
integral
part
of
this
upper
level,
orchestrator
that
they
are
using.
C
Yeah
just
to
add
to
insect,
I
mean
I
have
a
slightly.
You
know
a
take
that
when
I
have
been
doing
some
analysis,
then
the
traditional
architecture
that
it
has
been
developing
the
three
tier
architectures,
usually
storage,
is
being
kind
of
like
third
year
right.
Then
it's
basically
managed
past
an
oracle
instance
or
sap
instance
by
a
storage
admin,
a
database
admin
a
you
know,
a
backup.
C
They
maintain
the
health
of
the
entire
you
know
of
the
data
and
they
maintain
the
recoverability.
They
make
sure
that
it's
highly
available
and
all
that
today
in
a
micro
services
world
all
that
work
is
being
split
across
multiple
microservices,
so
now
you're,
seeing
that
each
individual
small
development
teams
are
managing
their
own
databases
inside
their
microservice,
and
so
there
isn't
a
centralized
data
hygiene,
that's
being
done
so
now
in
kubernetes.
C
A
Before
I
go
to
you
cheryl,
I
do
want
to
let
everyone
know
out
there
that
they
can
ask
questions.
You
you
out
there
in
kubernetes
land.
Ask
your
questions
here
about
what
you're
hearing
about.
What's
on
your
mind,
we
have
some
pros
here
who
are
ready
to
answer
them.
Cheryl
the
question
I
have
you
know
I
saw
you
post
something
the
other
day
about
some
of
the
hot
subjects
out
there.
A
Like
hot
topics
you
wrote
about,
gitops
is
one
and
I'm
thinking
about
persistent
data,
and
you
have
a
background
in
engineering
and
persistent
data
has
become
so
important.
How
does
it
rate
on
your
list
and
and
how
do
you
view
it
and
what
projects
do
you
see
out
there
from
from
in
the
cncf
or
interest.
D
So
alex
that
list
that
you're
referring
to
was
the
10
predictions
that
I
made
for
cloud
native
in
2021
and
I
agree
actually
with
both
izik
and
nivas.
That
deployments
are
getting
bigger,
they're
getting
more
complex
people
are
expecting
more
out
of
their
cloud
native
infrastructure.
One
of
those
challenges
is
persistent
storage.
D
I
started
looking
at
storage
in
2017,
in
fact,
and
I
thought
it
would
be
a
solved
problem
within
about
18
months.
I
was
obviously
optimistic
in
my
my
prediction
back
at
that
point,
but
I
do
see
now
that
organizations
are
getting
to
the
point
where
it's
not
scary
or
not
as
scary
anymore,
to
consider
running
databases
and
running
some
parts
as
persistent
using
persistent
volumes
and
persistent
workloads.
D
C
Yeah,
this
is
definitely
I
mean.
I
see
the
point
that
cheryl
is
making,
especially
when
we
have
a
multi-cloud.
I
look
at
you
know.
Applications
being
decomposed
across
each
cloud
is
specializing
its
own.
For
example.
Google
is,
you
know,
specialized
a
lot
of
machine
learning
type.
You
know
apis
aws
has
its
own
and
then
so
you
have
all
these
services
across
different
clouds,
but
but
the
data
is
not
very
easily.
C
You
can
spin
up
a
data
cluster
and
migrate
data
very
quickly,
and-
and
this
is
something
that
we
have
realized
from-
I
would
say
at
the
very
outset,
and
so
as
part
of
our
you
know-
data
layer
from
data
protection
standpoint.
It
can
add
from
the
primary
story
standpoint
that
we
have
a
concept
of
where
we
can
replicate
data,
so
we
can
replicate
the
data
across
multiple
of
these
clouds,
and
you
know
in
a
very
it's
almost
like
drinking
data
out
of
a
straw.
B
Yeah
sure,
thanks
alex
for
the
question,
so
really
my
answer
will
be
divided
into
two.
I'm
a
big
believer
in
the
dual
mirror
mentality,
which
means
that
if
I'm
a
developer,
there
is
a
very
small
chance
to
non-existing
at
all
that
I'm
going
to
use
the
storage
user
interface
to
carve
up
a
volume
or
to
take
a
snapshot
out
of
it.
My
portal
to
the
kubernetes
world
is
one
command
cube
ctl,
so
I
want
to
consume
all
of
those
services
via
cube
ctl
and
what
are
the
services.
B
So,
apart
from
just
the
basic
ability
to
map
a
volume,
think
about
the
other
advanced
functionality
like
snapshot,
taking
a
snapshot
of
a
volume
and
represent
that
data
to
your
ai
workload,
provide
quality
of
services
mechanism
as
an
idea
administrator.
So
you
will
know
that
your
developer
is
not
going
to
consume
the
entirety
of
the
storage
capacity
or
performance
nevis
already
mentioned
replication,
which
of
course,
is
also
one
of
those
features
that
some
customers
are
looking
for.
But
there
is
also
another
feature:
reporting
capabilities
in
the
kubernetes
worlds.
B
There
are
leading
open
source
reporting
capabilities
that
customers
want
to
monitor,
kubernetes
and
the
storage
array,
and
maybe
other
services
running
in
their
kubernetes
pods.
So
they
want
the
storage
array,
reporting
capabilities
to
integrate
into
these
open
source
walls.
So
all
of
those
features
are
important.
Today.
Long
are
the
days
where
customers
just
look
for
basic
functionality
to
provision
a
storage
volume
to
their
kubernetes
pods.
A
When
you
talk
about
coop,
ctl,
it's
and
as
everyone
I
expect
will
know
here
just
but
maybe
there's
some
people
who
don't
it's
the
command
line
too.
That
lets
you
control
kubernetes
clusters
when
you're
looking
at
configuration
issues
with
that,
what
are
some
of
the
things
you
really
need
to
be
aware
of
when
you're
working
in
this
environment,
especially
when
you're
thinking
about
persistent
data
and
the
importance
of
it.
This
seems
to
be
kind
of
a
major
concern.
I'm
curious
about
how
tonzu
approaches
that,
because
I
know
you
all
are
pretty.
B
Is
invested,
an
area
that
we
are
integrated
a
lot
into
in
the
context
of
vmware
tons
of
kubernetes
grid
and
the
way
that
our
soldiers
are
integrating
into
tanzu
is
the
vm
will
provide
the
container
storage
interface.
In
that
case,
we
provide
the
vivos
a
vasa
interface
to
connect
our
volumes
into
vmware,
and
the
beauty
with
vivos
is
that
you
don't
need
to
carve
up
the
volumes
in
advance,
as
opposed
to
the
old
days
of
vmfs.
B
Everything
is
being
generated
by
demand
and
because
vivos
also
have
this
communicator
called
spbm,
which
is
short
for
storage
policy
based
management.
It
can
actually
dictate
policies
like
the
size
of
the
volume,
the
performance
of
the
volumes
qos
for
the
volumes.
Should
the
volume
be
replicated.
How
many
snapshots
you
want
to
take
of
these
volumes.
B
A
Cheryl,
do
you
have
a
favorite,
pancake
restaurant?
I
guess
yours
is,
I
guess
you
don't
need
a
favorish
pancake
restaurant,
because
you've
got
you've,
got
the
chef
right
in
your
home
there,
but
I'm
curious
on
your
thoughts
on
this
about
the
configuration
issue,
because
this
is
comes
up
a
lot.
It's
been
coming
up
for
you
know
in
my
memory
it
came
up
in
san
diego.
A
D
I
mean
my
own
background
is
as
an
application
developer.
I
was
at
google
writing
backend
features
for
google
maps
and
deploying
it
using
borg,
which
was
the
kind
of
internal
predecessor
to
kubernetes.
So
I,
as
a
developer,
had
a
really
nice
experience
out
of
this.
I
never
had
to
worry
about
provisioning
storage.
I
never
had
to
worry
about
replication
or
failover
or
quality
of
service
or
any
of
the
things
that
is
it
just
mentioned
because
they
were
all
handled
for
me
by
the
system.
I
could
assume
that
I
had
just
perfect
reliable
storage.
D
B
So
it's
it's
a
great
question
and
the
answer
should
really
depends
on
the
functionality
of
the
csi
or
upper
level
orchestrator
that
are
being
used
in
itself.
Csi
is
not
really
aware
of
a
storage
failure,
apart
from
the
fact
that
the
hosts
in
a
pod
went
down,
and
so
what
we
did
apart
from
integrating
into
the
csi
basic
functionality,
is
to
come
up
with
our
own
a
side
card
that
sits
on
the
top.
B
So
now
csi
is
becoming
extensible
and
it's
far
more
aware
of
storage
controller
that
went
down
or
maybe
a
cable,
fiber
channel
cable
went
down
and
everything
in
between.
So
we
inject
what
we
think
is
the
specific
storage
awareness
to
those
failure,
conditions
that
you
just
mentioned.
That's
one
way
to
do
it.
Of
course,
there
are
others.
If
you're
using
upper
level
orchestrators
like
reddit
openshift,
it
has
its
own
monitoring
capabilities.
B
Vmware
tkg
has
their
own
capabilities
monitoring
capabilities.
So
what
we
try
to
do,
as
a
storage
company
in
this
particular
case,
is
to
not
reinvent
the
wheel
into
orchestrators
that
already
have
those
insightfulness,
but
rather
inject
the
new
things
that
we
think
those
upper-level
orchestrators
are
not
familiar
with.
C
Yeah
I'll
just
add
one
more
thing
alex
on
the
tan
zoo,
as
you
asked
the
question
earlier.
So
the
way
the
vmware
stanza
works
is
that
I
mean
vmware
has
created
a
kubernetes
as
a
service
platform,
so
it's
basically
is
plus
so
is
earlier,
was
based
on
virtual
machines
right
basically,
all
vms,
and
now
the
is
has
gone
up.
One
level
where
it
is
based
on
containers.
C
You
know
the
data
protection
aspects,
all
of
that
is
being
controlled
by
it,
but
developers
have
the
self-service
capabilities
and
that's
how
tanzu
looks
at
it
and
and
we
integrate
directly
with
the
services
layer,
which
is
a
supervisor
layer.
We
have
you,
know
common
services,
we
offer
developers
so
from
most
aspect
as
ezek
and
I
was
mentioning
earlier.
The
developers
are
totally
abstracted
away
from
it.
B
B
Was
what
about
quarter
management
or
in
the
storage
world?
If
I'm
storage
admin,
it's
my
job
on
the
line?
How
can
I
ensure
that
my
developers
are
not
consuming
the
entirety
of
the
storage
array,
because
it's
so
easy
to
create
those
volumes
these
days?
So
really
what
they
were
asking
about
is
quarter
management
and
quarter
management
is
being
handled
by
us
if
using
kubernetes,
so
whether
it
openshift
via
our
csm
module
that
sidecar
2
csi
that
basically
enable
quota
management.
B
Using
vmware
vmware
has
their
own
spbm
storage
policy
based
management,
which
is
the
enforcer
to
these
rules,
so
you
cannot
overrule
them.
Spbm
will
basically
blocks
you
out
from
consuming
the
volumes
that
you
are
not
entitled
to
whether
it's
performance
or
capacity
all
the
address,
all
the
other
attributes
like
replication
snapshots
and
things
of
that
nature.
So
really,
you
know
if
I'm
trying
to
sum
it
up,
it's
all
about
bringing
together
the
I.t
governance
with
developers
that
are
just
going
to
consume
storage
without
needing
to
worry
about
consuming
the
entirety
of
the
storage
array.
A
C
So
I
so
so
tenzu
as
I
was
mentioning
it's
basically
creating
a
ground
up
architecture
to
create
a
kubernetes
as
a
service,
and
similarly
you
have
other
kubernetes
service
in
the
cloud
like
eks,
aks
gke
and
each
one
is
managing
their
own
sort
of
distribution
and
capabilities.
So
that's
one
area,
the
other
aspect
we
look
at.
We
have
had
the
concept
of
pass
even
before
kubernetes
came
along
and
then
now
all
these
past
platforms
are
basically
working
with
kubernetes
and
they're,
basically
making
it.
I
would
say
you
know
so.
C
Openshift
is
sort
of
a
pass
solution,
so
the
difference
here
is
being
openshift.
Focus
is
more
on
developer
automation.
Basically,
you
take
a
source
code.
You
basically
point
to
the
source
code:
you
can
you
compile
the
code,
create
an
image
deploy
it.
You
know
all
the
entire
ci
cd
aspect,
observability
all
the
other
aspect
that
developers
need,
and
then
it
runs
on
a
particular
is
platform
which
can
be
vmware.
It
can
be
its
own
ocs.
There
are
many
different
flavors
that
openshift
has
and
versus.
Vmware
is
looking
at
some
of
the
ground.
Up.
C
Vmware
does
have
a
patch
solution
as
well.
I
just
would
like
to
call
out
that
as
well.
They
has
a
pivotal
now
it's
called
tkgi,
but
I
believe
that
they're
also
in
the
process
of
you,
know
creating
a
a
past
platform
about
tanzu
right
now,
kansas
is
focusing
more
on
the
is
so
that
would
be
the
major
differences,
but
in
general
the
problems
are
still
the
same.
Enterprises
are
looking
at
kubernetes
and
a
faster
way
to
deploy
kubernetes
with
vmware.
C
The
idea
is
that
we
have
you
know
a
huge
number
of
customers
who
are
already
familiar
with
vmware
and
all
the
tools
and
I.t
admins
don't
need
to
learn
a
new
tool
and
plus
it's
very,
very
easy
to
spin
up
clusters
and
all
of
those
advantages
that
vmware
brings
up
from
ground
up
that
a
lot
of
the
customers
are
looking
at.
You
know
for
an
on-prem
kubernetes
as
a
service
sure.
A
I'd
like
to
conclude
with
you-
and
perhaps
we
could
just
finish
up
with
speaking
to
your
end
users
out
there
and
you
work
a
lot
with
end
users
and
what
are
the
lessons
they're
learning
about
their
culture,
about
how
they
can
transform
their
cultures,
so
they
can
have
that
developer
speed.
So
they
can
have
the
capability
to
use
persistent
data
and
work
efficiently
with
storage
administrators
with
their
it
teams.
With
you
know
the
architects
out
there,
the
devops
teams.
What
are
some
of
the
things
you
hear.
D
So
you're
right
alex
so
I
work
with
the
cncf
end
user
community,
which
is
the
largest
end
user
community
of
any
open
source
foundation
or
standards
body.
So
I
do
get
to
see
a
lot
of
different
companies,
big
and
small,
and
the
challenges
that
they
face
every
day
and
one
of
the
things
that
I'm
excited
by-
and
I
put
in
my
list
of
20
21
10
predictions
is
the
rise
of
get
offs.
D
So
gitops
is
declaring
your
infrastructure
within
yaml
and
checking
it
into
your
repository
and
then
having
software
agents,
monitor
that
and
keep
it
up
to
date.
So
I'm
very
interested
to
see
how
this
github
trend
is
going
to
play
out
with
persistent
storage,
because
one
of
the
benefits
of
git
ups
is
the
ability
to
roll
back
easily.
D
A
Well,
yay.
I
think
this
has
been
a
great
discussion.
Thank
you
very
much
cheryl.
Thank
you
for
that
finishing
point
there.
I
want
to
just
encourage
everyone
to
ask
your
questions
now.
This
is
a
real
good
opportunity
to
to
you
know
to
hear
to
answer
some
of
your
questions
to
what
you
have
about
integrating
with
persistent
data
and
what
it
requires.
So
please
look
forward
to
your
questions.
Thanks
again
to
everyone,
you
did
a
great
job,
cheryl
itzik,
nivas,
you're
awesome.
Let's
have
some.