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From YouTube: Been There, Done That: Tales of Burnout from the Open Source W... Savitha Raghunathan & Divya Mohan
Description
Don’t miss out! Join us at our upcoming hybrid event: KubeCon + CloudNativeCon North America 2022 from October 24-28 in Detroit (and online!). Learn more at https://kubecon.io. The conference features presentations from developers and end users of Kubernetes, Prometheus, Envoy, and all of the other CNCF-hosted projects.
Been There, Done That: Tales of Burnout from the Open Source World - Savitha Raghunathan, RedHat & Divya Mohan, SUSE
Staying home has erased the line between work and life for many folks in the tech industry and around the world. Initially the extra commute time was utilized by many, including the speakers, for learning new tools, skills, and technologies. This boon eventually turned out to be a double-edged sword with overcommitting at or/and outside work leading to an overall feeling of overwhelming stress. In this talk, Divya & Savitha will share their own experience with overcommitting over the course of the pandemic and reflect on how they could have handled it better. At the end of the session, attendees will walk away knowing when to stop saying yes and how to draw their own boundaries thereby reclaiming their work-life balance.
A
So
hopefully,
I'm
audible,
because
this
is
the
first
time
for
the
label
mic,
so
yeah,
hello,
everyone
and
I'm
divya,
I'm
savita
and
we're
here
to
talk
about
burnout
in
the
context
of
an
open
source
ecosystem,
primarily
drawing
from
our
references
with
the
experience
of
burning
out
when
we've
contributed
to
open
source
projects
and
when
we've
been
juggling
them
alongside
our
day,
jobs,
the
pandemic
and
a
lot
of
other
stuff
going
on
in
our
lives.
So.
A
A
A
B
Sure
my
name
is-
and
I
am
a
software
engineer-
at
red
hat-
working
on
kubernetes
and
openshift
data
protection
before
that.
Prior
to
that,
I
was
working
as
a
platform
engineer
and
I
was
creating
platform
as
a
service
using
kubernetes
in
other
projects
that
are
like
supported
by
cloud
native
computing
foundation
along
the
way
I
came
across
an
amazing,
kubernetes
community.
I
fell
in
love
with
the
kubernetes
community
and
that's
how
my
contributor
journey
actually
started.
B
I
started
contributing
to
sig
docs
and
then
I
eventually
ended
up
in
seeing
released
the
release
team
by
sig
release
and
I
was
there
for
like
five
releases.
That's
when
I
met
divya
at
1.18
release
and
then
we
were
together
for
1.22.
I
let
the
1.22
release
and
then
right
now
I
am
focusing
on
the
documentation
to
project
so
now
that
you
have
known
a
little
bit
about
us
and
how
we
got
started
and
what
we
are
passionate
about.
Let's
move
on
to
who
we
are
not.
A
A
So
whatever
we're
speaking
about
right
here
is
not
medical
advice
and
we
request
that
if
you
know
you're
identifying
yourself
as
someone
suffering
from
you
know
the
symptoms
of
burnout,
you
talk
to
a
medical
health
professional
and
get
the
relevant
advice,
because
that's
what
we
did
so
with
that
psa
out
of
the
way.
Let's
look
at
why
we're
speaking
about
this
today
so.
B
B
A
The
whole
thing
about
bernard
is
it's
a
very
way,
abstract
sort
of
a
term.
So
when
I
actually
went
ahead
and
told
you
know
a
couple
of
my
close
friends
or
people
who
I'm
close
to
that,
I'm
suffering
from
bronc
like
what
exactly
caused
it
is
it
like
you
know,
you're
too
stressed.
Is
it
like
you've
got
too
much
work
on
your
plate,
or
is
it
like?
A
So
it's
a
very
vague
term
and
the
reason
why
we
actually
really
want
to
focus
on
burnout
is
because
we
want
to
have
those
we
want
to
start
with
those
conversations
wherein
you
know,
we
gain
more
perspectives.
We
have.
We
have
this
capability
to
develop
a
vocabulary
around
it,
and
we
know
that
we
can't
do
it
alone.
A
Right
like,
as
I
said
before,
we
are
not
medical
health
professionals,
so
even
world
health
organization,
which
is
supposed
to
be
the
premier
world
health
premier
health
organization
in
the
entire
world,
ended
up
defining
bernard
as
a
syndrome
just
in
this
year,
that
is
2022..
So
let's
have
a
look
at
what
the
definition
is.
B
So
the
world
health
organization,
the
who
categorizes
burnout
as
a
chronic
stress
from
workplace
right,
so
we
are
all
open
source
contributors.
We
don't
fall
under
that
category.
Most
of
us
we
are
not
paid
to
do
the
open
source
during
our
day
job,
so
we
love
our
community.
So
we
do
it
during
our
own
time.
What
happens
to
us?
We
are
not
even
a
part
of
that
definition
like
according
to
the
definition.
B
We
don't
even
fall
anywhere
under
that,
and
most
of
us
are
like
doing
our
day
job
and
then
doing
open
source
work,
and
we
do
it
day
after
day
week
after
week,
and
we
end
up
being
at
least
for
me.
I
ended
up
being
like
what
am
I
doing
with
my
life.
Like
I
don't
have
anything
else.
I
just
open
my
computer,
I
sit
in
front
of
my
computer,
I'm
not
getting
my
task
done
anyway.
B
A
A
It's
as
simple
as
that,
because
the
more
perspectives
that
you
have,
the
more
perspective,
the
better
conversations
that
you
can
have
around
it-
and
you
are,
you-
know,
fostering
a
healthy
culture
of
having
communication
as
a
default,
rather
than
you
know,
just
when
urgency
crops
up
so
in
an
open
source
ecosystem.
What
tends
to
happen?
A
B
Let's
see
from
a
consumer
perspective
right,
like
I,
the
consumer,
can
this
can
be
an
employer,
abc
wants
to
adopt
an
project,
and
they
have
this
new
project
proposal
which
uses
the
open
source
project
x
in
this
case,
and
then
they
get
approval,
they
publish
their
product
and
they
deliver
it
and
becomes
a
success,
and
that's
about
it.
All
they
know
is
like
they
look
at
the
project,
page
code
binaries
which
they
can
use
and
then
the
documentation
website
right.
What
they
don't
know
is
like
a
lot
of
things
that
goes
in
the
backstage.
B
How
about
the
licensing
people
who
are
wearing
the
license
there,
making
sure
that
it's
okay
to
consume?
And
there
is
no
legal
implication.
What
about
these
infrastructure
people
who
are
maintaining
the
project,
writing
test,
suites
and
making
sure
the
project
every
release
is
stable
and
reliable
for
someone
else
to
consume
right
and
same
with
the
collaborators.
B
Most
of
places
don't
recognize
the
other
contributions
as
contributions
at
all
and
that
causes
a
lot
of
fatigue
and
for
the
people
who
are
working
on
the
other
side,
the
backstage
in
this
case,
and
they
there
is
like
very
less
pool
like
very
less
stable
pool
of
contributors
in
those
areas
where,
like
folks,
can
you
know,
step
up
and
go
to
the
next
level.
That
causes
a
lot
of
lack
of
motivation
in
the
first
place,
and
it
doesn't
just
stop
there
like.
B
B
Manager,
in
this
case
is
responsible
for
cutting
the
branches
and
getting
the
kubernetes
release
out
every
single
release,
and
they
have
more
probably
responsibilities,
and
this
is
like
the
gist
of
it,
and
they
have
the
word
manager
and
the
role
right
and
I'm
an
engineer,
and
I
want
to
be
a
release
manager
right.
My
manager
might
question
me
asking
like:
do
you
want
to
go
in
the
manager
ryan?
Do
you
want
to
manage
people
because
all
they
see
is
the
manager
word
in
it?
B
So
the
commendable
thing
that
the
sig
release
people
are
doing
is
they're
gonna
change,
the
role
to
a
release,
engineer
or
something
which
can
resonate
more
with
the
employer.
More
and
more
things
need
to
happen,
and
it
shouldn't
just
be
the
our
own
student
just
beyond
the
open
source
community.
It
should
be
on
the
employers
or
to
encourage,
like
it's
fine,
like
oh
you're,
contributing
which
we
are
contributing,
and
how
can
we
take
this
and
how
can
we
use
it?
How
can
we
support
you
that
should
be
the
ideology
behind
it.
A
Right
and
the
whole
part
about
you
know
open
source
contributions.
You
know
and
where
you
start
off
your
contributor
journey
is
that
it's
exciting,
because
it's
not
quite
like
what
we
experience
when
we
start
off
with,
say
a
corporate
setup
which
all
of
us
here
are
a
part
of
by
the
way
and
most
of
us
at
least,
if
I'm
not
wrong.
So
when
we,
when
we,
you
know,
start
off
on
an
open
source
contributor
journey.
Typically,
what
happens
is
it's
a
reflection
change
because
you
literally
get
to
choose
what
you
want
to
do.
A
And
this
particular
thing
is
a
double-edged
sword,
so
as
freeing
as
it
can
be.
That
is
a
very
big
double-edged
sword
hanging
right
over
your
neck
and
it
can
possibly
lead
into
burnout.
Now,
when
we
thought
of
this
presentation
and
when
we
thought
of
you
know
giving
our
giving
out
given
giving
up
the
cfp,
we
thought
of
how
we
could
approach
it,
because
a
talk
has
already
been
done
about
this
before,
but
not
in
the
open
source
context
and
we
had
to
narrow
it
down
to
the
open
source
ecosystem.
A
And
we
wanted
for
it
to
be
a
bit
different
in
the
context
that
we
needed.
You
know
more
open
source
stuff
into
the
presentation,
so
we're
going
to
approach
this
presentation
from
the
perspective
of
three
user
personas,
which
is
a
contributor,
a
maintainer
and
a
community
evangelist,
and
I
know
that
there
may
be.
You
know
several
other
personas,
but
these
are
the
three
broad
personas
that
we
have
started
off
with
and
we
are
extremely
sorry
if
it's
excluding
anyone,
but
it
was
not
our
goal.
It's
just
the
thing
that
we
are
most
experienced
with.
A
B
B
Successful
projects,
linux
and
other
projects
right,
but
the
both
of
the
kubernetes
lead
to
something
else,
totally
different.
It
got
adopted
by
a
lot
of
company
and
there
was
a
lot
of
interest
and
in
the
open
source
contributions
in
open
source
became
a
buzzword,
or
at
least
that's
when
I
came
to
know
so,
I'm
like
I'm
just
going
to
say
that.
B
So
please
pardon
me
if
that
is
the
wrong
thing
that
created
a
lot
of
opportunities,
because
the
cncf
came
along,
adopted
the
kubernetes
project
and
then
like
a
lot
of
money,
little
sandbox
more
and
more
projects
came
on
and
which
means
that
you
can
contribute
to
any
project
you
want
and
even
within
the
project.
Then
you
have
like
multiple
roles
like
oh
you
can
do
the
dogs,
you
can
do
the
release.
B
You
can
do
the
coding
and
you
can
be
the
pm
and
whatnot
so
a
lot
of
opportunities
right
and
when
I
started
the
kubernetes
I
faced
with
that
same
thing
too.
I
I
signed
up
to
be
in
release
team
and
I
was
like
a
sick
dog's
shadow,
and
I
was
part
of
that.
I
was
doing
work
with
sick
documentation
as
well,
and
then
I
also
signed
up
to
to
be
a
mentee
in
this
working
group
called
competent
standard,
which
is
not
a
part
of
the
ecosystem
anymore
because
they
achieved
their
goal
successfully.
B
So
they
dissolved
the
working
group,
and
there
was
also
this
sig
country,
bikes,
contributor
experience
which
had
a
triage
issue,
triage
group
going
on.
So
I
signed
up
to
all
signed
up
for
all
of
these
things
at
the
same
time,
and
I
also
had
a
day
job.
So
what
happened
after
a
while
all
right
after
a
while,
like
I
couldn't
just
keep
up,
I'm
like
I'm
just
lagging
one
way
or
the
other,
I'm
a
perfectionist.
B
So
I
hated
it
because
I
had
to
be
on
top
of
everything
and
I
have
to
finish
it
and
I
have
to
like
make
it
better
like
I
don't
like
touching
like.
If
I
write
any
piece
of
code,
I
don't
like
going
back
and
touching
it
again
at
least
for
an
year
or
so,
because
I
wanted
to
be
so
good
that
I
want
to
focus
on
something
else
really,
so
that
did
not
help
at
all,
and
I
had
to
pull
out
of
some
engagements
and
that
hurt
really
bad.
Why
am
I
talking
about
this?
B
Is
that
I
want
to
highlight
that
there
are
a
lot
of
opportunities
and
there
are
a
lot
of
challenges
too,
along
with
that
right
and
then
comes
the
contributors
located
in
anywhere
in
the
world
like
when
I
want
to
contribute
with
divya
right.
It
always
happens
during
my
lunch
time
or
her
dinner
time,
cutting
into
our
quality
family
time
and
personal
down
time
right.
You
can
have
it
anyways,
you
can
just
take
a
nap
or,
like
you
can
just
watch
tv.
B
A
You
have
google
season
of
code,
google
season
of
talks,
outreachy
lfx
internships,
and
I
don't
even
remember
the
others,
sorry,
but
you
have
all
of
that,
and
you
have
to
do
your
day
job
and
you
have
to
structure
it
in
a
way
that
it
doesn't
sort
of
eat
into
your
personal
time.
It's
not
possible.
Take
it
from
me
because
I
was
on
the
google
season
of
docs
for
2020.
I
work
with
cern.
I
also
was
on
the
release
team
shadow.
A
I
worked
with,
I
think
savita
at
that
point
in
time,
and
I
also
was
helping
with
sick
dogs.
I
was
doing
minor
edits
and
I
was
doing
a
daytime
job
and
that
took
a
toll
on
me
and
I'm
not
even
kidding
when
I
said
it
took
a
toll
on
me.
It
really
did,
because
I
thought
that
you
know
every
everything
that
I
do
within
the
space
will.
A
You
know,
be
reflected
on
my
resume,
but
it
did
because
I
could
not
even
end
up
completing
half
of
it
and
it
would
like
savita,
I
hated
doing
it.
I
hated
you
know,
pulling
back
from
the
opportunities
that
I
was
given
and
the
major
thing
why
that
happened.
Why
I
got
into
such
a
mindset
was
to
actually
you
know,
curate
my
profile
in
a
particular
way
show
that
I'm
a
particular
person,
but
that
doesn't
work.
A
It
honestly
doesn't
work
because
there's
a
lot
of
effort
that
goes
behind
every
single
project,
every
single
community
that
you
build
and
if,
if
you
actually
try
to
curate
your
life
like
with,
you
know
how
it
happens
with
instagram,
if
you
try
it
on
your
github
into
a
tech
instagram,
it
totally
is
going
to
fail
majorly,
primarily
because
you
take
on
a
lot
of
things.
You
try
to
curate
it
in
a
way
that
is
more.
A
You
know
apt
for
employers
or
potential
employers
to
take
a
lead
from
it
is
going
to
fail
because
you're
taking
on
too
much
of
work
for
yourself
from
that
side,
and
I
hate
that
I
made
it
so
negative
with
that
last
statement.
So
I'm
gonna,
you
know,
go
to
how
we
got
better,
so
we
so
for
at
least
for
myself,
because
I'm
gonna
speak
for
myself
yeah,
and
I
realized
that
it's
not
a
sprint
like
nothing
in
my
life
is
a
sprint
at
this
point.
It's
going
to
be
a
marathon.
A
If
anything
and
I'm
going
to
pace
myself,
and
this
realization
came
very
late.
That
was
last
year.
I
think
mid
last
year
was
when
I
realized
that-
and
it
took
a
lot
of
you-
know:
emotional
exhaustion,
physical
exhaustion
and
the
inability
to
drive
anything
literally
anything
at
work
or
in
open
source
or
at
home
really
to
completion.
A
I
could
not
do
anything
virtually
properly
that
I,
in
the
way
that
I
wanted
to,
and
that's
what
helped
me,
because
it
sort
of
showed
me
the
reality
that
you
know
you
got
to
stop
here,
because
you're
not
doing
anything
well,
you're.
Just
putting
your
hands
in
three
different
things
and
doing
nothing
of
them,
none
of
them
right,
so
that
sort
of
gave
me
a
brutal.
A
You
know
flash
of
light
that
you
know
you
should
stop
here
and
you
should
take
a
step
back
and
pause
and
reflect
on
what
you
actually
want
to
be
doing
and
what
you
actually
want
to
be
contributing
to.
And
then
you
know
the
reassessing
of
priorities
and
stuff
came
up
after
all,
but
that
was
my
journey
and
why
aren't
you.
B
Way
to
come
to
the
cube
con
and
you've
heard
always
like
if
you
have
ever
taken
a
come,
a
flew
through
a
flight.
You
will
just
I've
heard
that,
like
put
on
your
mask
before
you
help
someone
else
right.
So
I
had
to
like
do
that
because
I
started
feeling
emotionally
drained
and
more
than
that,
I
was
emotionally
unavailable
for
my
loved
ones,
and
that
hurt
me
so
bad
and
all
because
of
the
things
that
I'm
doing,
and
that
is
not
right.
B
So
I
had
to
like
pull
back
from
all
the
engagements
that
I
had
and
then
I
had
to
like
make
a
short
list.
I'm
not
good
with
long
term
list,
because
I
can
never
stick
to
one
thing.
I
keep
changing
for
good,
so
I
had
to
like
shot
make
a
short
list
and
then,
like
figure
out
what
I
want.
So
I
when
there
was
a
sick
dog's
pr
angle,
wrangler
and
when
they
reached
out
to
me
I
said
like
I'm
sorry
I
cannot
do
it.
B
Can
you
take
off
take
me
off
the
list
and
they
were
like
kind
enough
to
do
that
and
I
said
like
I
will
start
from
scratch,
because
whenever
I'm
ready,
I
will
do
it
and
they
were
like
more
kind
enough
to
say
that
no,
no,
when
you
already
let
us
know,
we
will
put
you
as
a
reviewer,
because
you
have
served
that
role
for
a
while,
which
is
amazing
to
know
that
stepping
down
or
stepping
back
is
not
a
step
down
right.
Like
I
took
a
step
back,
it
doesn't
mean
that
I
lost
anything.
B
I'm
still
there.
My
place
is
waiting
there
whenever
I'm
ready
and
the
other
thing
is
like
self-care,
which
is
very
important,
and
I
care
for
everyone
else
in
my
life,
and
I
don't
care
for
myself,
like
I'm
very
harsh,
on
myself
like
if
I'm
one
hour
late,
getting
up,
I'm
like
very
mad
at
myself,
so
I
had
to
relearn
like
how
to
be
kind
to
myself,
so
that,
like
I,
can
focus
on
the
actual
stuff
that
is
happening
instead
of
just
being
mad
at
myself,
and
another
thing
is
like
communicating.
A
C
B
B
To
give
a
reason-
and
they
understand
it
and
they
are
like
extending
their
support
all
the
time
by
willing
to
help
me
right,
and
that
is
what
a
community
is.
So
if
you
are
in
a
group
that
doesn't
do
it,
you
are
in
a
wrong
group
and
if
you
are
not
doing
it,
you
should
start
doing
it,
and
you
should
advocate
or
tell
your
group
to
do
that
too,
like
we
are
all
there
for
each
other.
It's
like
you
know
we
have
to
look
out
for
each
other.
B
A
And
when
we
speak
about
you
know,
setting
stuff
and
having
that
community,
you
know
health
in
such
a
way
that
you
can
actually
communicate
to
your
maintainers.
It
needs
to
have
good
people
at
the
top
and
by
the
top
I
don't
mean
the
top
of
the
building.
I
really
mean
like
the
hierarchical
top
of
the
community,
so,
according
to
us,
at
least
in
like
the
community
maintainers
are
typically
the
people
who
are
able
to
foster
and
set
go
foster
a
healthy
environment.
A
So
when
you're
a
maintainer,
you
have
that
additional
responsibility
of
not
only
embodying
the
expectation
and
carrying
out
what
you
are
expected
to
do,
but
you
also
have
to
actually
you
know,
set
that
particular
goal
and
ensure
everybody
else
is
living
in
an
environment
that
can
actually
aid
them
to
go
towards
that
goal.
And
what
happens
when
there's
no
goal
like
what
happens
when
there
are
no
expectations
at
all?
That's
something
that
savita
will
talk
about.
B
Yeah,
so
for
what
happens
when
there
is
no
goal,
it
is
it.
It
leads
to
a
chaotic
environment
right.
There
would
be
a
lot
of
in
a
lot
of
features
that
so
many
people
are
working
on
the
same
time
or
like
no
feature
at
all.
The
project
becomes
stagnant
and,
like
you,
don't
upgrade
like,
for
example,
if
it
is
a
project,
that's
supporting
another
project
like
little
mini
tools
that
we
use.
The
cli
tools
is
supporting
a
big
project.
B
We
don't
apply
update
it,
keep
up
with
the
big
project,
which
is
moving
at
a
speed
of
a
bullet
train
and
the
project's
like
pretty
much
dead
so,
and
you
can
also
ask
like
why
should
we
set
expectations
because
the
contributors
are
doing
it
as
a
volunteer?
Most
of
them
are
doing
it
as
a
voluntary
thing
right.
How
can
you
set
expectations
like?
How
can
you
expect
them
to
do
something
but
think
think
about
it
like
this,
like?
B
If
you
set
little
goals
right,
little
teams
like
come
up
with
themes
for
your
releases,
like
say
reliability
say
like
a
security
say
like
documentation
say
like
five
features,
goes
in
the
release.
That
puts
a
lot
less
stress
on
the
maintainer,
because
they
know
that
they
have
to
only
block
like
two
weeks
off
their
three-month
cycle,
to
review,
to
help
the
contributors
and
get
the
feature
in
and
the
same
with
the
contributors
too.
They
know
like
they
have
two
features
to
focus
on.
B
They
can
get
the
features
done
in
the
right
way
and
they
can
move
on
to
the
new
one
instead
of
like
lingering,
like
having
like
n
number
of
features
lingering
and
then
just
keep
it
going
for,
like
god
knows
how
long
like
two
three
years
or
maybe
maybe
even
drop
out.
So
those
are
the
little
things
that
I
want
to
highlight
here
and.
A
When
we
talk
about
you
know
these
goals
and
she
spoke
about
it
pretty
well.
In
terms
of
you
know,
pacing
out
your
work,
you
have
to
be
sustainable
about
it
as
well,
because
you
have
to
set
expectations
that
are
sort
of
community
vetoed
and
not
like
working
for
your
own
schedule
and
if
you,
if
in
any
community
you're,
made
to
believe
that
it's
you
know,
the
leadership
is
just
you
know
the
people
who
are
at
the
helm
of
it
all.
A
It's
completely
wrong
because
you
know
community
all
together,
the
people
in
the
community,
all
together
are
responsible
for
the
health
of
the
community,
and
when
we
speak
about
sustainability
within
the
community
aspect
of
things,
you
have
to
understand
that
even
for
a
maintainer
like
she
just
said
for
pr
wrangler
reviewing
role,
stepping
down
is
not
a
step
back,
because
you
are
still
there
you're
still
within
the
ecosystem,
you're
not
going
away
going
away
anywhere
and
that
role
will
be
there.
It's
not
some.
A
It's
not
going
to
go
away
magically
because
we
open
source
is
a
voluntary
thing
and
it
will
always
require
people
so
distribute,
distribute
your
work,
help
other
people
get
up
that
ladder
as
well,
because
who
are
we
to
race
with
at
this
point
in
time?
Why
are
we
in
a
race
in
the
very
first
place,
because
communities
don't
race
against
each
other?
A
They
walk
together
towards
a
particular
goal,
so
there
is
no
particular
way
of
approaching
burnout
from
you
know
a
maintainer's
perspective,
because
you
know
it
it's
an
individual
effort,
but
while
fostering
that
healthy
environment,
it
is
extremely
essential
for
the
men
maintainer
to
be
cognizant
that,
while
setting
goals
he
they
he
she
or
they
have
to
be
really
cognizant
of
the
fact
that
those
goals
are
sustainable
in
the
long
run
and
not
just
catering
to
their
own.
You
know
cadence
and
their
own
comfort.
B
So
like
there
have
been
a
lot
of
project
that
has
like
very
few
handful
number
of
maintainers
doing
it.
One
of
the
such
things
that
I
can
think
of
recently
is
the
log
4k.
If
you
can
all
remember
about
the
security
issue,
that
happened
and
the
number
of
companies
that's
been
using.
The
log
4j
like
my
partner
works
in
medical
industry,
medical
devices
and
he
knew
about
it
because
they
were
using
it
in
one
of
the
medical
devices
like
communicating
somewhere
like
in
the
software.
B
So
what
happened
there
like
a
lot
of
employers
like
they
wrote
blog
post
about
it
and
then,
like
a
lot
of
people,
were
like
creating
noise
on
the
twitter
and
they're
like
maintainers,
who
are
working
hard
to
fix
the
problem
in
addition
to
hearing
the
concerns
from
everyone
around
the
world
right
that
is
not
sustainable
at
all.
Imagine
how
much
guilty
the
maintenance
would
have
felt
that
they
are
not
able
to
meet
the
goals
like
guilt,
is
not
my
friend,
your
friend
or
anyone's
for
that
matter
in
this
case
right.
B
That
is
one
action
and
we
just
want
to
call
out
like
it's
really
important,
to
recognize
that,
like
sometimes
it's
just
like
one
or
two
people
doing
it
for
like
years
and
number
of
years,
I
don't
know
I
cannot
do
it.
So
I'm
hoping
that
that's
not
the
case
in
the
future,
like
we
all
get
very
cognizant
about
it
and
we
create
like
parts
that
where
the
new
like
people
can
go
as
a
bird
and
then
like
mature
into
a
like
flower
and
like
move
on
right.
B
A
So
this
is
going
to
be
fairly
brief,
because
both
of
us
are
not
like
in
in
the
trenches
of
community
advocacy,
I'm
a
technical
writer
she's
a
software
engineer,
and
we
both
do
our
share
of
you
know
documentation.
But
none
of
us
is
a
full-fledged
advocate
here.
So,
with
our
experience,
what
we've
tended
to
know,
what
we've
noticed
is
actually
that
the
technology
ecosystem
goes
goes
by
very
fast.
A
Isn't
it
kubernetes
itself
has
right
now
three
four
releases
at
this
point
per
year
so
before
it
had
even
more-
and
this
is
just
one
project
that
we're
talking
about.
There
are
many
projects
here
in
the
ecosystem
and
they
keep
having
these
many
releases
and
it's
difficult
as
a
community
advocate
out.
Even
just
a
particular
projects
advocate
to
understand-
or
you
know,
figure
out,
the
number
of
changes
that
keep
going
in
for
each
specific
project
and
what
tends
to
happen
with
advocates
is
that
there
are
broadly
three
buckets
wherein
you
know.
A
A
Well,
I
I
know
a
few
people
who
do
it
really
well
so
kudos
to
them,
but
it
takes
a
toll
on
them,
because
the
ecosystem
goes
by
really
fast
and
it's
on
an
advocate
or
on
that
person
to
assess
and
take
back,
take
a
step
back
and
understand
that
the
kind
of
content
that
you
put
out
and
the
kind
you
know
the
pace
at
which
you
put
out
it
put
it
out.
Is
it
worth
the
cost
of
your
own
health?
A
Is
it
really
really
important
for
you
to
churn
out
content
week
after
week,
or
can
you
like
pace
it?
Maybe
a
little
slower?
Would
that
be
okay,
and
that
is
extremely.
That
is
an
extreme
consideration
that
you
have
to
make.
I
mean
have
to
take
because
it
doesn't
make
sense.
If
you
know
you
are,
you
know,
building
your
bridge,
which
a
community
advocate
is
on
very
weak
foundations,
because
community
advocates
are
supposed
to
be
the
bridges
between
the
project
and
the
wider
world
right
at
this
point
in
time.
A
That's
what
we
associate
community
advocacy
with.
So
if
you're
doing
that-
and
you
are
yourself-
you
know
spreading
yourself
thin-
then
there's
no
point
in
doing
it
at
all,
because
you
are
just
going
to
either
do
it
half-heartedly
or
you
are
going
to
just
you
know,
not
do
it
at
all
or
not
be
able
to
drive
it
to
completion.
A
If
you
are
anything
like
me,
so
rome
wasn't
built
in
a
day
and
it's
best
that
if
you
take
a
pause
and
then
press
play
because
otherwise
what
tends
to
happen
is
that
you're
going
to
burn
out
at
the
speed
of
light?
If
there's
a
faster
speed,
I
don't
know
if
it
was
invented,
but
if
there
was
just
be
you're
going
to
burn
out
at
the
speed
of
light
and
that
might
not
really
be
helpful
or
anyone
involved
and
with
that.
B
Yes,
so
we
hope
we
have
created
some
awareness.
We
did
set
a
goal
for
us
that
if
one
of
you
who's
listening
to
our
talk
here
or
virtually
or
anywhere
after
that,
if
you
are
motivated,
inspired
to
speak
about
burnout
or
even
educate
your
family
friends
at
your
work
with
your
employer,
that
means
that
we
have
achieved
our
goal.
So
that
is
one
thing
and
also
I
want
to
call
out
on.
B
A
And
to
wrap
it
all
up.
To
be
honest,
I
know
y'all
have
been
pretty
sitting
here
pretty
long
and
it
must
be
really
taxing
for
you
to
listen
to
us
ramble
for
that
long,
so
to
wrap
it
all
up.
We
know
we
haven't
presented
you
all
with
a
solution
to
a
problem,
but
what
we're
hoping
is
the
conversations
that
we
have
after
this
lead
to
that
solution,
and
maybe
it's
not
a
but
as
an
ecosystem
and
as
an
industry.
A
You
know
in
the
wider
sense
we
need
to
have
better
ways
of
coping
with
bernard,
better
language,
to
seek
that
support,
and
obviously
that
comes
with
you
know,
being
more
inclusive
and
being
more
diverse
about
the
perspectives
that
we
are
gaining.
So
thank
you,
everyone
so
much
for
listening
to
us
today.
Thank
you.
We
hope
you
had
a
good
time.
D
Hi,
hello
hi,
thanks
for
coming
to
our
talk,
no
thank
we
have
met
before
on
the
internet.
This
is
celeste.
Thank
you
so
much
so
because
you
are
both
sigdost
contributors
and
because
my
last
role
with
the
cncf
was
a
staff
technical
writer
with
them.
I
wondered
if
you
had
any
perspective
on
burnout
that
is
unique
to
people
working
in
documentation
in
open
source.
A
Okay,
I've
just
been
fairly
recent
and
this
is
not
advice,
but
I
think
you
know
having
like.
I
really
really
find
it
hard.
When
you
know
I,
when
I
went
through
burnout
last
year
when
I
was
working
with
dogs
before
I
became
the
co-chair,
so
it
was
really
difficult
for
me
and
I
had
to
put
a
heart
stop
for
myself.
A
A
D
E
Hi
hi
talk
has
been
amazing.
Thank
you
for
doing
it.
Thank
you
on
one
of
your
slides.
There
was
a
piece
of
advice
that
was,
you
know,
set
up
structures
so
that
people
can
ascend
into
leadership,
give
people
leadership
opportunities
and
what
advice
would
you
have
for
maintainers?
Who
are
trying
to
figure
out
a
way
to
do
that?
Well,.
B
So
I
am
going
to
take
example
of
one
of
the
things
that
sick
dogs
did
recently
like
one
of
their
co-chairs
were
like
stepping
down,
so
they
had
a
cohort
of
like
a
six
weeks
or
something
where
they
trained
people.
And
finally,
they
have
like
three
amazing
co-chairs
right
now
out
of
the
program
that
came
out
of
the
program
right,
and
that
is
one
thing,
and
sometimes
it
should
I
feel
like
it
should
be
ongoing.
B
It
shouldn't
just
be
like
one-off
and
it
should
always
happen
like
there
should
be
always
someone
who
is
in
the
training
or
like
set
up
a
rule.
Ask
like
someone
might
want
to
be
a
tech
lead
right,
but
they
don't
know
how
to
do
it,
and
someone
might
be
just
interested
in
the
topic,
but
they
don't
have
the
resources.
B
It
takes
a
lot
of
effort
too.
So
I
want
to
like
say
to
the
maintainers
that
you
also
have
to
take
care
of
your
health
and
when
you
say
that
I'm
gonna
like
support
this
group,
it's
gonna
take
a
lot
of
effort,
which
means
that
you
need
a
lot
of
people
so
like
take
it
bite
by
bite.
You
know
like
one
thing
at
a
time,
so
if
running
mini
cohorts
works
that
works,
that's
about
it
and
then
try
and
expand
it
later
to
a
full-fledged
program
and
you
have
more
contributors.
C
C
So
my
mindset
is
that
I
don't
speak
for
like
other
communities,
so
there's
a
huge
influx
of
new
contributors
coming
in,
and
it
makes
me
very
happy
when
they
reach
out
ask
for
help
how
to
get
started
right,
but
at
the
same
time
I'm
also
experiencing
some
of
the
symptoms
that
you
described
and
there's
this
guilt
of
not
being
able
to
effectively
help
them
get
started
in
the
community
and,
like
I
got
started
because
of
a
workshop
that
divided.
So
thank
you
for
that.
But
you
like.
A
Yeah
sure
yeah.
So
basically
I
had
a
lot
of
guilt
after
that
summit
or
not
summit
open
the
kubernetes
community's
day,
kubernetes
community
days
that
we
held
in
bengaluru,
because
a
lot
of
people
reached
out
to
me
after
that
asking
for
directions
on
how
to
get
started
and
it
was
physically,
mentally
and
energetically.
I
guess
impossible
for
me
to
do
to
cater
to
all
of
the
requests.
So
what
I
did
to
be
very
honest
and
very
frank
is
delegate.
A
As
I
wrote
in
the
previous
slides
I
delegated
that
to
a
lot
of
the
older
newer
contributors.
I
cannot,
I
don't
have
a
particular
phrase
for
it,
but
that's
how
I
see
them
in
my
head.
So
there
are
people
who
are
in
the
community
who
have
been
around
fairly
after
fairly
new
but
they're,
not
exactly
entrenched
yet
and
they've
just
started
out
their
journey.
A
So
it's
an
opportunity
for
them
to
pay
it
forward
and
they
have
that
confidence
because
they've
just
started
and
they
know
a
bit
about
how
to
get
started
and
I'm
giving
them
that
opportunity
as
well
to
help
another
person.
So
that
worked
very
well
for
me
and
first
off
when
I
started
it
was
extremely
nerve-wracking
for
me
because
I
don't
know
if
that
person
would
actually,
you
know,
listen
to
the
second
person
or
whatever.
A
So
what
I
did
was
I
initiated
a
group
chat
and
I
would
do
a
check-in
if
that
person
was
okay
and
if
he
had,
if
they
or
she
or
he
had
found
their
way.
And
then
you
know
if
they
had
any
problems,
I
would
ensure
that
there
was
some
bridge
between
the
two
or
a
communication
channel
between
the
two,
where
they
could
address
that
till
they
were
comfortable
or
and
all
set
to.
You
know
navigate
themselves
in
the
community.
A
So
that's
what
I
did
and
I
I
got
to
tell
you
at
first:
it's
very
very
you
know
you.
You
feel
a
lot
of
guilt,
because,
oh
my
god,
I'm
not
helping
someone
personally,
but
don't
take
it
personally,
because
it's
not
your
fault,
it
is
nobody's
fault
that
you
can't
help.
You
have
too
much
on
your
plate.
So
if
you
have
that
you
should
delegate-
and
of
course
I
won't
tell
you
not
to
help,
but
whenever
you
have
a
chance,
let
others
also
take
up
the
mantle.