Cloud Native Computing Foundation KubeCon + CloudNativeCon Europe 2022, 1 Jun 2022

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From YouTube: Navigating the CNCF Landscape, the Right Way - D. Mohan, S. Raghunathan, K. Kushwaha & S. Pathak

Description

Don’t miss out! Join us at our upcoming hybrid event: KubeCon + CloudNativeCon North America 2022 from October 24-28 in Detroit (and online!). Learn more at https://kubecon.io. The conference features presentations from developers and end users of Kubernetes, Prometheus, Envoy, and all of the other CNCF-hosted projects.

Navigating the CNCF Landscape, the Right Way - Divya Mohan, SUSE; Savitha Raghunathan, Red Hat; Kunal Kushwaha & Saiyam Pathak, Civo

CNCF is the vendor-neutral home for cloud native projects. Including the most famous open source project in recent times, Kubernetes, it currently houses ~1,019 cards with a total of 2,957,938 stars. With a growing ecosystem, at an initial glance, the landscape may seem intimidating to newcomers, especially students. Journeying through the entire development and operations lifecycle, this panel aims to take a guided approach to cover the various projects involved right from the creation of the application to the deployment & monitoring. With various pit stops & forks along the way, the speakers hope to leave the audience with a fair idea of how to navigate the landscape effectively and embark on their cloud native journey. Should they also wish to contribute to any of the projects, the session also covers various tips & tricks on how to take their very first steps in the ecosystem as well.

A

Hello, everyone and welcome to the last talk of this cubecon so who server is here? You all are the best people in the entire kubecon. So this is uh a part of the student track, um so we are happy that uh student track was there in this particular kubecon and we will try to navigate the cncf landscape.

A

Try to show you how, from our perspectives, how to navigate the landscape in the right way and that's the talk so um I'm joined by my name is sayam pathak, I'm from sevo, uh and we have divya hi divya mohan from suse.

A

So we'll be now getting started with some of the questions that we have gathered, some of the most important questions that conversations we had with the students with respect to the challenges they face when they see the landscape or what questions pop in their head.

A

So we'll try to answer those so first like uh so it is an interactive kind of session that we'll be doing among ourselves, but yeah we'll be having a q a as well, so that you can ask your additional queries with respect to whatever we have so first, I would like to ask divya on like setting the context. What is cloud native.

B

Yeah great question, because that's something that you know uh confounded me when I started off: uh why is there a need for cloud native in the very first place? So uh I come from a background where uh you know primarily: applications were deployed on self-hosted servers or physic dedicated servers and we gradually moved from physically hosted. You know servers to sort of moving towards the cloud and then you know towards a multi-cloud environment.

B

So when I started off there was there was cloud, but it was not so you know prominent and out in the market, but it sort of went out in as we as my career progressed, so cloud native as a paradigm evolved because of the requirement of a vendor agnostic um platform.

B

For all these, um you know benefits that the cloud offers- and this was primarily a requirement not just because of that, but it was also because there was a move towards a more declarative approach of uh you know, deploying and uh building your applications. So that's where cloud native as a paradigm emerged- and uh you know, as as we are moving forward in this landscape, talk you'll see how the different aspects of building deploying and you know, securing your applications can be achieved.

B

With the help of uh you know the various cloud native tools and technologies in the landscape. So I think that that will be covered by siam and all of the rest of my panelists. So yeah.

A

Cool so now we know what cloud native is, so, let's try to understand from there what what is cncf and why was it required in first place, yeah.

B

So, like I said uh you know, there were many clouds and, uh given the you know, requirement of a window agnostic platform. All of these um you know, members sort of came together and uh cncf was um formed as a organization under the linux foundation for the development- and uh you know I wouldn't say propagation, but it's not prop. It's not propagation. It's proliferation of this uh cloud native paradigm and the requirement again, you know, was the basic um leveraging of all the benefits that the various clouds had to offer, but in a vendor-agnostic way.

B

So I think the next thing that we sort of want to look at is what are the different types of projects so savitar? Do you want to talk about that sure.

C

So there are, there are like three major categories where this project gets grouped into. Let's start at the stand, box sandbox is like the experimental projects where you have all your ideas and they are not prediction ready and you are moving way too fast.

C

So that's where all the um all the ideas like all the innovation and creativity is happening and those um get into so there are like certain criteria to get into the sandbox project and that is available in the cncf website. So once it's passed passes and it gets reviewed by the specific tag which is like a technical advisory group and then then it gets in the sandbox and after a while, once it satisfies certain requirements, it's going to be moved into the incubation.

C

Now incubation projects are run in prediction by a small number of users and they have like good number of contributors contributing to it and it's in a steady state and then, after a while the projects mature and they become more and more stable, widely adopted, and then they are having they have a large number of contributors flocking and like contributing to to it like projects.

C

Like kubernetes prometheus and many more and they fall into the graduated category, there is one more which is not mentioned here like there is a group called archived which are not no more relevant and or they have achieved their like end goal end of the life, and you found like something new, and it is like it's like this. One idea and you move on to another idea, which is the old idea, is not relevant anymore.

C

So, like those projects get saved there, now that we have heard a little bit about how these things are, then, let's ask now like what is the landscape.

D

Cool so hello, everyone, I'm kunal, and even though this is a part of the student track, I think we all can agree that you know even uh folks who have been in the industry for a while, can relate to this. When we talk about navigating the cncf landscape. So can we go to the next slide?

D

So we talk about it. So, as you can see, the goal of the cloud native landscape is to compile and organize all the cloud native projects be that open source or proprietary software into categories.

D

This makes it easy for us to navigate through it and we're going to be covering how you can you know actually pick up the right project for your particular use cases and organizations. You know you can submit a pull request and get your projects added in the in the landscape.

D

It's uh it's created um in a card shape, so obviously there's a card format and this, if you can go to the next yeah the next one about the details of the card there you go so you can see that this is a card of one particular category and it has a few uh small boxes that have projects associated with them. So projects in the large boxes that you can see are the open source projects by cncf and uh some are still like.

D

The incubation stage like uh savitam mentioned previously, and those are represented by light blue and the purple frame, while others that are graduated are in the dark blue frame. As you can see, british and stuff um the smaller boxes that you can see the the white small boxes, these are open source projects and the ones that are grayed out are propriety software move forward. So if we look at a particular card for um so, if you click on one particular project, it pops up this, uh you know more information about that single one.

D

So you can see the project information from github the funding on all the other information like market cap and some of the best uh practices. Now this is a great you know it's a good resource uh for getting involved. So if we take an example of like humanities, it shows the website the documentation, uh the blogs and the mailing list. Slack channel and everything that goes on over here.

B

Right, that's a great segue into our next question, uh which is how to navigate the landscape so yeah.

A

Yeah so um now we know what cloud native is: what are different projects enclouded if sandbox incubating and graduated, uh we know what the cards refer to. So you can check, which is the most recent comment in that and how which is the most relevant project or the active contributed project that you can. You know work with which will be stable for a while before you actually use that in your project in production, so it becomes very important and that's the whole essence of the talk like navigating the landscape.

A

So when it comes to uh the navigation, there are different criteria that that we can formalize the landscape into.

A

So first is app containerization. So whenever you have to deploy the application, what do you do you actually containerize the application? First, you use tools like docker, mechanical nerd, ctl or any of the other tools that you can do to containerize your application. You will be building a image so that you can actually deploy because cloud native is kind of cncf was built around the kubernetes to deploy to kubernetes. You need to containerize your workload to containerize.

A

You need some build tools and app definition tools that are there and those are the categories like application um definition and the build. So you can see in the categories. There are different type of tools which are there um that can be used. uh Next comes the infrastructure provisioning. So after you have containers the application, then you decide in which particular cloud you actually want to deploy like it's aws, ceo, google, whatever it is, and then there are like different infrastructure as code infrastructure is called provisioning tools.

A

That gives you the power of defining your infrastructure in automated way, because now you we are not in a an era where we are defining everything manually. We have amazing tools that helps us to define our whole infrastructure and it can spin up in in minutes or in a few minutes, depending on the time taken by a particular cloud vendor.

A

So you have tools like terraform pollumi, uh all those that will help you in in the infrastructure, automation, infrastructure as code, it's not a fancy concept, but it is actually used in production in across all the major projects that companies use. uh Next is actually the container orchestration. So now you have picked up the cloud you have created your compute network storage. You have created all the resources that are required now you actually want a container orchestrator, because you have your containerized application or the micro services that you want to deploy to a orchestration engine.

A

So you need to kind of choose that there are a couple of options, but the most effective one you know comes to mind is kubernetes, so you pick kubernetes and then you kind of install that and you will be having a base ready for deploying your application.

A

Now I have mentioned security and compliance here, because security and compliance is not something we should be thinking in the end. So it is. We always talk about the shift left approach so that uh you know, starting from day zero. You should be taking your security uh seriously supply chain security seriously. So that is why the uh security and compliance landscape is also there you, you know the four c's of uh the security which are there, the cloud so security at cloud level, cluster level, container level and code level.

A

So that is very important, so you have to be thinking about your security from day zero and it actually gets implemented. So this is overlapping thing, so it it actually gets in. You know, um with all the stages you need to make sure how you can implement the security with different cloud native tools.

A

So this is how you will be like going to a specific. uh You know: block of projects inside the whole massive landscape.

A

And when you do the orchestration part, there are three major things, obviously, that you have to decide: the cri cni and the csi so basically, which runtime you will be using uh container d. Cryo docker is replicated, uh I mean removed in 1.24, so you can use those, and then you have storage. So what storage solution you will be using many of the cloud vendors will be having their own storage solutions.

A

If you are self-hosting your kubernetes cluster on the vms, then you will be picking up a storage layer that whenever you create a persistent volume automatically your volume will be provisioned, so you will be having a csi over there. Also without networking layer. um Your orchestration will not work, so you need a cns solution for that flannel, celium calico.

A

So all these are the major ones. So you you can choose from that now. Here again, you always see a few projects which are there. You always see the status of the project that shows the maturity and adoption. So that gives you the picture when you are entering the landscape, which ones are actually used in the production by many organizations so that you don't start like. If you are planning for production, you do not start with a project that just got in I mean you.

A

Can you can be their customer and drive the road map, but it's always like. If you are navigating- and you want something from the landscape, then you go by what is mentioned in the landscape.

A

Next is the observability and analysis, so we have like four observability pillars: monitoring tracing logging and profiling. All of these have uh you know separate uh they're their pieces as well, like you have prometheus cortex, so basically you'll be having prometheus. Then, if you want to go at scale, you will be. You know, looking at some of the tools and same for uh tracing, you will be using some of the tracing tools. So all these comes now. You have deployed your application.

A

You need to have monitoring of your infrastructure and the application, and you need traces from it. You need profiling data from it, so there are like profiling tools, alves, parker and pyroscope, some of the tools which are there and same for the logging, fluency elastic loki. So all these tools, you can have a look at now again these these tools.

A

They are also too many like in a specific domain. Also, there are like many tools. Let's say you, you have a particular problem in mind and you are navigating the landscape. Still, there are many tools and there can be a way in which you can also narrow down. So we always have to follow the narrow down approach, so uh the next like couple of bits and pieces would be githubs.

A

You need to have a ci cd pipeline for your uh orchestration engine, so you can use flux, argo, rancho fleet, uh all those projects are there then policies again. It falls under security and compliance, so there are different options for that as well and service meshes.

A

So when, when your micro services keeps on growing because your project will be scaling and maturing, so you will be looking at the micro service mesh options and again you will be falling back to the landscape to see the state of maturity of these particular projects and which one to implement.

A

Now, like I was saying again, this particular pieces also has many project how to choose a project when you stumble upon a problem in ecosystem. So how do we kind of narrow down our search, even with the small cards that we have picked out when we are navigating the landscape, so canal.

D

Yeah next one cool. um So as sam mentioned, this landscape is huge. Anyone here like who is working. You know in the in the cloud native field for a few years, I'm not sure I mean there might be a few people who know the entire landscape, but just in case anyone is here.

D

No, I don't entire landscape all the projects, it's pretty pretty big right, and the second point I would like to mention is that, like sabita mentioned the fourth kind of projects that are archived, um so it keeps up, keeps on evolving new projects keep getting added in the same like categories, so you may be wondering like okay, um I'm using I'm using this for logging or monitoring. Now this new thing is out. Should I use this? How do I migrate and all these other things? So when you stumble up across a problem?

D

Let's take an example of the previous side. Previous slide, only the monitoring one right. um So the two more important points I want to mention is match your requirements with the project's specifications.

D

So if you talk about like prometheus, what it has to offer you're using that and then you want to do it at scale, then you look at something like thanos and like no cortex and things like that. So that's. The first point like uh match the requirements that you have for your own project with the projects that are in the landscape. So that's the basically, you know how we do it and uh it's not like you. uh What is the word I'm looking for here?

D

So the landscape is huge right, so you don't randomly go on looking for projects and stuff because that can get really overwhelming. So the landscape is used so many tools in just one particular category and you're like picking up every tool. Okay, this this this this this instead of doing that, match the tools that you're picking according to the requirements, then the second point is for, like the future proofing part.

D

um This is also very, very important because of the migration thing that I talked about so think about scaling from the start create some proof of concepts pocs for for multiple projects. So you talk about prometheus, like at scale talk about like thanos, another project see what they have to offer, what you're trying to do- and uh this is important- because if you don't consider this at an early stage, you're gonna have trouble uh migrating uh later on and folks folks do you know face this issue.

D

I have uh you know I've seen like the at a later point in stage when they're like okay, we should have thought about this, uh how we're going to adapt to this project. um So that's, basically, the way to go most of the projects are extremely active. uh There's a huge community support behind them like from ethios and like cuban. It is for for obvious reasons, so I think it's a pretty self-explanatory in that domain, but these are the two important points uh that I wanted to mention about: uh uh picking the right project.

D

So not just you know, going in a maze and checking out what every project has to offer, but focusing on the the the requirements that you uh that you have that thing that is sort of like the narrowed down way of what sam was uh mentioning and that's sort of, like uh you know, according to the theme of this session as well, which is navigating the landscape. So, according to your uh requirements and think about scaling right from the start,.

B

Right so I think that's a very good uh segway into our next one, um where we are gonna talk about cnc after terminology that people starting out because uh a lot of students are gonna, be you know watching this. So what are some of the cncf terminologies that everyone should be familiar with, because every ecosystem has its own, so savita.

C

So let's get started with the cncf members, so there are like companies who are cncf members and there are levels like platinum, gold and, like so on, and those members are the one who are uh actually um taking advantage of these projects and they are building their project on top of it. And then there are like end users, and there are like about like 145-ish.

C

Organized organizations are a part of the end user community. They are like a vendor neural community. They are just consuming these projects right, so they have, they can provide feedback to the cncf community and um they can also get involved in the uh thick radar. If you have noticed that there are like cncf tech radars, like observability radar and so on so moving on from then there are like two more um boards. One is like toc.

C

That is like the technical oversight committee, which is responsible for like over seeing the technical uh discussions and like uh having a say in uh when a project can graduate or like when a project can get into the sandbox when a project can graduate into incubating and so on. And then there is this governing board, which will be responsible for the business decisions. Of course, every company needs someone who is responsible for those big decisions, so that heavy thing falls on the head and uh moving on um and there are like tags.

C

So these are awesome right, like tags are like the technical advisory groups, so they are like if you have ever contributed to kubernetes right.

C

So you wouldn't, you would have come across the special interest groups, so these are like analogous to that, like tags are like um they focus on specific section of domain like, for example, app delivery and like security and stuff like that, so they focus on the projects that involve that particular domain and they help the project move from one um one like they help the project move from the sandbox to incubator or like they even like help make the technical decision or like have their discussion, make a place like they create this environment where the communities to come can come together and talk about that.

C

All the discussions and share it with the world right. So that's there and there is a huge shout out to the groceries. So if you have uh come across this or not like the cncf landscape is like a lot.

C

There are a lot of observation abbreviations and then there is a lot of um in our definitions like I can't keep up with everything, um and uh so, if you want like a quick um note on like a refresher, you go to the cncf glossary website and like look for the definition of the abbreviation, you get the idea, what that word means or like what the abbreviation means.

C

So that's there and that's the basic things that you need to know before you get started in addition to the projects and all the landscape that um my fellow panelists discussed speaking.

D

Of shout outs, when you go to the landscape website, there's also a there's, also a guide that has been created that lists out all the best practices for navigating it and what it's all about, and some of the best practices as well so make sure you check that out as well. It's on the same website.

A

Yep, so when you go to the landscape.cncf.io, so you will be having both the landscape and the guide and the guide like walks, you through the different sections of the landscape, and it will give you the technical overview of that as well, and so now we have like understood the cloud native we have navigated through it. We have even picked a few projects done a poc for the particular project. We know some of the terminologies about the cncf ecosystem, the glossary and stuff.

A

The last thing that we would like to bring is one of the possible areas of the contribution in cncf, because that is important. So people come in, they want to use but they're another set of people who want to contribute, or they can be the same set of people who use and contribute. So what are the different areas uh for contributions? uh Divya? Can you throw some light on that.

B

Yeah absolutely so there like, there are two broad buckets and by broad buckets I really mean they are broad, because um you know there's there's the code, part of it and then there's the non-code part of it. So uh in coding you obviously have the entire code base and you also have the infrastructure provisioning. Where everything is there, I'm not saying no, but I've just divided it into these buckets for the simplicity of everyone's understanding.

B

So you have those two broad areas to contribute and when you speak about non-code contributions, um they're as valuable to be honest- and please don't feel you know that any project within the cncf or you know anywhere else- doesn't need them, because non-code contributions are as important.

B

So one of the areas that you possibly could get started with if you're at a big node level, and considering that you know you could possibly be intimidated by the fact that the landscape is so vast and the ecosystem is so vast is with the non-code aspects of the project. Now what this could be um in a general way would be maybe contribute to the uh talks of the project or maybe help with the contributor experience.

B

If you know you are in a larger project, um or you know help with just um you know the overall onboarding and stuff like that, so these are.

B

These are very small things that you could do to take your very first steps into the ecosystem, but um I really really do need to you know, take a small detour here and give a huge shout out to uh stuff like the lfx internships um that actually provide students- and uh you know, people who are interested into getting in a structured way of contribution, take their very first steps into the ecosystem, because internships are a great structured or time framed time box.

B

Sorry time, boxed, a way of uh you know getting to know the ecosystem without actually having to routinely contribute to it and um fun fact. Is you also get paid for it? So I mean that's a perk, so that's that's one thing and there's also a bunch of stuff other than you know the stuff that I've mentioned in the non-code bucket, like you can also work on. You know catching or triaging bugs and helping with releases.

B

In fact, kubernetes has a brilliant shadow program so that that's something you could check out. So there are a bunch of avenues, so you really don't need to feel intimidated while uh you know taking or taking that first big step, which might look like a very big one. So uh that's that's one thing, and the last thing that I would like to mention is for all those who are starting out, uh there's also a brilliant certification exam, and this is not a plug.

B

This is none of this is a shameless plug yeah, but but there's a brilliant certification exam, uh the kcna which was introduced last year and it's one of those things that helps you uh via the way of learning to understand more about the projects in the ecosystem, so sayam and sorry so, sam and kunal and savita have talked very much about. You know how to navigate the ecosystem and its various terminologies.

B

You can test your knowledge via that particular exam, so those are the broad ways in which you can sort of get involved and you know learn more about the ecosystem, and I generally hope that you know you found this session helpful, because this is these are some of the questions that we've frequently been asked as active contributors.

B

However, I think, uh given that we're at the end of our presentation right now, we'd be open to any questions that y'all might have and uh yeah. So I think you'll have to go to the back.

D

One of the more uh you know most questions that we get are uh with the overwhelming nature of the cncf landscape. So I would say it's it's not a negative thing. It's it's! These projects are here to you know, solve problems specific problems. um So when you look for a definition in a dictionary, you don't go starting from the very first page and go through the entire dictionary to find the problem.

D

The dictionary has so many words and you're looking for one particular solution, and you find that relatively quickly because it's organized in such a way, so you can think of it all the words and everything in the language as the projects and the cncf landscape as the dictionary that is organized and you're trying to navigate it with the tunnel framework that you know siam and everyone at the panel mentioned.

D

So um more, is you know the more the merrier we have heard about that, not always, but in some cases, but according to your use cases, you can navigate it and yeah we're happy to take questions to go ahead.

E

Yeah, so thank you so much for the wonderful presentation, uh this 21 one very quick question. So, as you mentioned that you know, the cncf has a very wide landscape and in general, if you generally talk about the technologies that the underlying technologies that are there and communities, uh it does require you to have a good knowledge about computer networks and operating systems and all right uh so, of course, they're having a lot of initiatives like the cloud native students, especially for students to actually get into cloud native and also like cube. Simplify.

E

So would you mind sharing about your experiences uh having driven these initiatives and how this has actually helped a lot of young learners in to get into the world of cloud native.

A

Yeah, so basically, um we as we are cncf ambassadors and we always try to kind of help. People in getting into cloud native teaching about cloud native, creating various initiatives regarding the same and like you mentioned cube, simplifies one of them, so basically people are learning stuff and they get stuck, and you know after learning, what do they do? So there are various ways like you know, contributing to their project obviously shapes their career, contributing to a new project which, or they can start building their own project with a team hackathons.

A

So all these parts they contribute to shaping up their learnings, their journey, also learning in public, like whatever you're learning you document your journey, you create videos out of it. It's very common these days, especially in the pandemic. You write the blogs and you like ask for feedback and again coming back to the non-code contributions. You can use those learnings from the blogs that you have written into the documentation contribution into different projects.

A

You can use your coding, learnings, whatever you have done, like golang python, to use that and uh pick up the good first issues and solve that the maintainers need it. So, if you ask anybody like josh, is there like? If you ask anybody, we need the people to kind of contribute, so the people to contribute are less and the demand is always the more so you need people, we need people and you should be like you have to be. You know in a way I don't have to learn.

A

I have to learn and contribute so that that is the that is the way and for students there are like many initiatives that is, the cncf is always trying to run. They created the student track itself, so that shows how much overall the ecosystem is. Thinking about the newcomers getting into cloud native from the basics and creating inclusive community, helping them navigating through different aspects of cncf.

D

Also, the point you mentioned about there being so many things in the underlying project that you need to know about students, I'm speaking as one this thing called impostor syndrome and I think that's a you- can look at the optimistic side of it when you find yourself in a place where you don't know much about something. So that's an opportunity to learn and contribute.

D

So it's it's. It's definitely nothing to be like ashamed about. uh You are students, you are, you know, learning and not just students, anyone who is getting started. um No one was born with you know uh when kubernetes was donated in 20 foot. This is a not a good analogy. I should have thought this through anyway.

D

um No one no one was born with uh you know, an expert in kate's or whatever or anything you all learn and know everyone was a beginner one so have to have an open mind mindset, especially when contributing to open source. Thank you.

D

Let's have an open mindset when contributing to open source. It's it's, okay, not to know everything, um but what what is required is have an open mind and learn by doing so. You don't have to be an expert. You can just you can start today itself, you can check out various sigs in kubernetes uh start contributing to documentation, well so which I can help you in that thanks again and that's that's it yeah next question: yeah.

E

Just one final question so as we know that there are a lot of different uh projects within the cnc landscape, uh do you mind uh shedding some light into because we are seeing right there. A lot of companies today are building open source projects and they are giving back to the community. So if some organization wants to basically create a project that is open sourced and they want to let it inside the cnc landscape, how what's the process of doing that? Yeah.

D

B

So I could comment on the overall process, obviously not the specifics. So the way you do that is by first, you know um submitting a pr that is the basic process, but there's a lot of stuff that goes behind the scenes for that, because it's not just about submitting that pr, because uh in that pr also you're required to list down your your.

B

uh What what all is the stuff that has actually gone into uh while you know making that project and uh what is the stuff that is actually what is the actual problem that your project is solving in association with the cloud native ecosystem, because it has to make sense in the wider. uh You know in the larger sense of things right, because if it's not solving any problem, if it's not uh really, uh you know filling any gap, then there is no use of a second thing.

B

uh Alternatives are good, but again how many alternatives do you really want? That is the thing. So first thing is: I think, uh when submitting uh an application or vr pr, what normally gets addressed is what is the project that you are? What is the problem that you're trying to solve? What is your project doing? uh You have to have some at least a basic outline of not basic, outline good documentation.

B

You have to have um like basis the levels of entry that savita spoke about uh in terms of you know the sandbox incubating and stuff you. um You obviously have graded criteria, so it doesn't really. uh It doesn't really start uh start off with a large community like it's not going to be kubernetes on the very first go, so you have to you, know, sort of build your community. You have to sort of tell the people at cncf what what?

B

What is the thing that you're trying to solve and uh put it in the context of the wider ecosystem, and then you know tell them that you know whether there are any specific areas that you're trying to grow within the project, whether it's stable, whether it's not just there are a bunch of things when you submit a pr that you do and obviously the behind the scenes work is more than just that so yeah, that's that's the basic gist of what happens when you stop at the pr.

E

Thank you very much.

A

Yeah, just just to add one thing, uh so the sandbox incubating and graduation they they are all well documented. On github checking out, you know what all steps are there? What all things you need to do the criterias the adoption from the community uh that that has to be there for a particular project when you put against that and also toc is kind of changing the process of the sandbox specifically so that it can be much more.

A

You know faster in the way the projects gets in the sandbox stage, so always keep looking out for that, and the toc channel is there, which, with open communication, that you can always look upon cool. Thank you all uh for attending till the end, nunu.

D

A

F

Yeah, I see that you don't want to talk to me.

A

B

F

Will be for the three others? Thank you um no actually shiva. I had exactly the same question as myself, so thank you for the talk and uh one last thing is like when, based on your experiences and from the eyes of a student, then when do you think it's good to move from using to contributing at the stage of the knowledge right so to avoid maybe some frustrations still continuing, maybe learning, but when did you see, maybe it was good to say like okay?

F

Now I can contribute now, I'm let's say I I'm easy enough or comfortable enough to be participating. Also in this project.

D

um You wouldn't know once you like until you start, I think I think uh you, while you're learning just go for it, so I started my contributions when I just knew like java and I contributed to a java, kubernetes client. So I learned on the go started like with some basic documentation. Then testing. So testing is a good area for contributions. If you're new to you know such bigger projects, um and then you sort of like build up on that.

D

So to answer your nose question yeah, while you're learning you can contribute, does not matter how much your knowledge is. That's true, because you can even do non-code contributions. um So when I was contributing like kate's one month, I spent doing nothing but attending the meeting calls that's it. uh There.

C

Is a story of so many people? I.

D

Did not six months I was just attending meeting meetings and after that you will get to understand. You can contribute in so many areas. So um then start with non-code. If you're a beginner you'll understand how the ecosystem works, but you don't have to be like an expert, don't be stuck in that it's called the tutorial hell like first I'll complete this entire thing, then I'll contribute um don't do. I would not recommend that one uh learn by doing contribute while doing while learning learn by doing contribute. While learning nice, you can tweet that okay.

C

And also pace yourselves, you have the entire life and don't burn out, because.

F

C

Is it's not like you have to do your coursework? I we understand, we have been students, and these things are like amazing. Open source is so awesome and great and you contribute whenever you feel comfortable right. So it's not like you can go about it in any way like for me. um If I want to learn something I could start at, I would start attending by attending the meetings that I'm interested in and I'm like, they'll, be like good.

C

First contributor issues like I like to learn and grow at the same time, but whatever works for me might not work for you. So there is no one solution that fits all. um There are perspectives. Right, like I said I had a perspective. I have a perspective, so whatever works for you right and you can always reach out to us like we are all available in slack, um we have our twitter handle and we should have put the slack handle.

C

So we are all available in the kubernetes slack and you can just find this bar name and and reach out to us right and there is a cncf students channel in the cnc of slack. So put your questions there.

C

Someone or the other would always be there to respond and keep in mind that if you don't get get response in a day or two don't be disheartened, I have been there uh and I know that could be frustrating but also means that the maintainers are like, probably a little busy and they'll get back to you right. So these things can happen when you're a student um and when you are not not even a student when you are any level of contributor, so just like these are the little things that you can keep in mind.

C

I'm sorry! No! No! I don't. I didn't have the right answer. It's just like.

D

No overall yeah, I believe that was it uh just concluding it would. It won't happen overnight, I'll, take some time to be a contributor so enjoy the journey. That's it.

C

Thank you. Everyone.