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Description
Don’t miss out! Join us at our upcoming event: KubeCon + CloudNativeCon Europe 2023 in Amsterdam, The Netherlands from April 17-21. Learn more at https://kubecon.io. The conference features presentations from developers and end users of Kubernetes, Prometheus, Envoy, and all of the other CNCF-hosted projects.
Get Projects Approved By Articulating the Business Value Of a Cloud Native Solution - Larry Carvalho, RobustCloud LLC; Krisztián Flautner, Cisco; Betty Junod, VMware; Chris Rosen, IBM
Cloud native technology is a robust set of tools that enable the development of innovative solutions, but practitioners often do not understand the business value delivered. This panel discussion will focus on three examples of how cloud native tools provide significant benefits not possible with traditional technology. Larry Carvalho, Principal Consultant at RobustCloud LLC, will moderate this session. Krisztián Flautner from Cisco will touch upon how a financial enterprise customer with challenges around digital transformation and the acceleration of FinTech uses cloud native technology to accelerate the introduction of new applications with lifecycle management. Chris Rosen from IBM will highlight how a customer used cloud native technologies to build a hybrid cloud solution that leveraged insights from data to speed up the insurance claim process while preventing fraud. Betty Junod from VMware will discuss how a traditional retailer was able to turn a production downtime of their primary in-store system over a busy sale weekend into a modern system that is more resilient, scalable, and agile for their central IT and store associates. This panel discussion will help you articulate the bottom line value delivered by a collection of open source cloud native technologies.
A
My
name
is
Larry
corvallo
I
have
my
own
analyst
firm,
called
robust
cloud
and,
with
me,
I
have
three
panelists
that
will
just
introduce
themselves
in
a
minute.
What
we
are
here
to
talk
about
is
the
business
value
of
cloud
native
Solutions.
You
know
what
I
hear
from
from
cios
from
you
know,
other
folks
who
are
more
on
the
business
side.
They
say:
hey,
we
understand
technology,
but
what's
the
business
value,
I
I,
don't
know
about
can't
talk
about
latency
and
this
and
that
I
just
need
to
know
more
of
the
business
value.
A
B
You
know
once
you
start
looking
at.
How
do
you
do
this
and
what
does
it
mean
to
justify
this
at
an
Enterprise
level
like?
How
do
you
make
that
case,
because
you
know
you're
not
going
to
show
up
with
a
list
of
projects
like
the
you
know,
list
of
all
the
OSS
projects
but
Translating
that
for
the
other
people
that
may
not
be
hands
on
keyboard
or
deep
in
the
projects
in
your
organization.
A
C
Exactly
so,
I
apologize
for
being
named
Chris
and
causing
confusion.
My
name
is
Chris
Rosen
I'm,
the
director
of
product
management
in
IBM,
Cloud,
I'm
responsible
for
our
Cloud
native
paths
and
IBM
Cloud
satellite,
which
is
our
answer
to
distributed
cloud
or
local
Cloud.
As
a
service
I've
been
with
IBM
for
over
22
years
and
a
number
of
different
roles
in
this
current
stint.
You
know,
like
I,
said
it's
really
about
working
with
our
customers,
helping
them
find
the.
C
Why
of
you
know
why
we
not
need
to
leverage
technology
to
help
us
be
able
to
move
fast
and
innovate
and
get
that
business
value.
So
I'm
really
excited
to
be
here
as
part
of
this
panel
I
expect
everyone
in
the
audience
to
think
of
some
hard
questions,
I'll
deflect
those
to
the
other
Chris.
If
you
have
any
easy
I'll
take
those.
Thank
you.
D
Okay,
first
challenge
passed:
hi
I'm,
Chris,
floater,
I'm
I'm
in
product
strategy
in
Cisco
and
I'm
in
the
etni
part
of
Cisco,
which
you
may
have
noticed
from
your
Wi-Fi
login.
It's.
It
stands
for
emerging
technology
and
incubation,
the
it's
the
part
of
Cisco
that
actually
is
trying
to
do
a
lot
of
software.
It's
emerging
for
Cisco
in
the
sense
that
it's
a
new
area
in
software,
as
opposed
to
just
the
the
bread
and
butter
that
used
to
be
Cisco's,
that
is
Cisco's
Foundation
business.
A
So
what
what
we
want
to
talk
about
is
again
not
about
the
technology
aspects
of
cloud
native.
What
what,
when
I
talk
to
some
folks
and
especially
those
who
run
I.T
or
the
business
folks
who
talk
to
IIT,
they
say
Hey,
you
know
my
I.T
Department
comes
and
says:
hey,
invest,
half
a
million
or
a
million
dollars
on
this,
and
why
are
we
doing
this
because
we're
running
out
of
support-
or
you
know
we
have
to
just
he
said
they
say
why?
Why
are
we
just
doing
it?
A
For
that
reason,
can
we
bring
in
a
solution
that
actually
I
don't
mind
paying
2
million?
If
you
give
me
the
kind
of
business
value
that
will
make
me
competitive
in
the
market
from
a
business
standpoint,
so
what
I
asked
a
three
panelists
to
come
up
with
one
use
case
that
they
have?
Each
of
them
have
one
use
case,
I'm
sure
they
have
a
lot
more
use
cases
that
they
can.
A
D
One
of
the
things
I'd
like
to
highlight
here
that
people
are
often
gloss
over
is
in
terms
of
the
value
of
a
service
mesh.
By
the
way
on
this
is
the
Cisco
calisti
product.
The
is
that
it
actually
enables
Enterprises
to
kind
of
decouple
the
development
cycles
of
the
various
teams.
So
you
can
actually
have
a
separate
set
of
people
working
on
the
the
foundation
layer,
the
operation
layer
and,
and
then
you
and
you
can
have
a
number
of
applications-
teams
that
then
focus
on
the
various
components.
D
The
it's
also
worth
mentioning
that
kind
of
the
Heritage
and
well
pretty
much
everybody
in
the
cloud
native
space
is
lots
of
Open
Source
projects.
I
just
highlighted
a
few
that
we
actually
do
inside
Cisco
utni,
the
some
of
these
come
from
Bonsai
clouds.
Some
of
these
come
from
various
other
Cisco
efforts,
but
these
are
very
much
to
form
the
core
part
of
the
products
that
we
deliver,
and
you
know
they
they
really
have
two
functions.
D
One
of
them
is
is
actually
enabling
the
ecosystem
to
you
know
to
converge
the
integration
story
around
them,
but
it's
also
for
the
the
broader
ecosystem
to
benefit
from
some
of
these
components.
And
then
the
customer
value
that
we
sell
to
them
is
the
Simplicity
of
combining
these
things
to
form
useful
Solutions
at
the
at
the
application
and
the
foundation
operational
layers.
D
A
When
you
look
at
this
story,
primarily
on
the
you
know
financial
and
digital
transformation,
you
see
a
lot
of
banks
and
others
coming
in
to
go
to
a
cloud
native
solution
for
a
lot
of
reasons.
Biggest
examples
are
Capital,
One
and
others
that
you
may
have
you
know,
heard
of
so
with
that
we're
going
to
go
to
the
next
Chris
Rosen
to
talk
about
another
fintech
story
on
what
you
do
sure.
C
C
They
want
to
really
focus
on
Innovation.
That's
what
drives
them
as
a
developer,
so
we
want
to
kind
of
mix
both
sides
of
that
equation,
where
we
can
interject
the
technology
that
helps
them
and
enables
them,
but
also
provides
the
guard
rails
to
prevent
them
from
making
silly
mistakes
deploying
code
with
vulnerabilities
violating
open
source
guidelines.
C
So
it's
building
in
those
tools
and
the
other
piece
is
around
regardless
of
where
I
want
to
run.
So
this
particular
use
case
that
I'm
focused
on
was
a
fintech
customer,
a
very
large
bank
that
I'm
sure
you're
all
familiar
with
that.
You
know
their
problem.
Statements
were
around
I
want
to
run
some
of
my
workload
in
Cloud,
but
the
reality
is
not.
Everything
can
or
should
run
in
public
Cloud.
C
Yet
so
how
do
I
get
that
consistent,
fully
SRE
managed
capability
in
my
data
center
in
my
Edge
locations,
which
in
this
case
are
the
you
know
the
customer
facing
Banks,
where
they
don't
have
kubernetes
or
openshift
or
tecton
or
istio,
or
so
on
and
so
forth
expertise.
So
how
can
we
provide
those
managed
services
and
when
I
think
about
a
managed
service?
It's
moving
up
that
line
of
responsibility.
C
So
that
customer
can
focus
on
what's
important
to
them,
because
it's
not
these
open
source
projects
and
all
the
things
that
we
love
digging
into
the
weeds
around
the
different
open
source
projects
and
things
that
you
know
we're
here
to
learn
about
all
week.
It's
bringing
in
the
managed
capabilities,
so
we
can
focus
on
Innovation
and
delivering
capabilities
to
Art
and
consumers.
In
this
example,
it's
it's
the
banking
customers.
It's
the
people
that
are
filling
out
mortgage
applications.
C
They
want
to
deposit
a
check,
something
as
simple
as
that
they
want
to
be
able
to
do
that
in
a
very
secure
and
seamless
manner,
so
the
customer
needed
to
be
able
to
build
and
innovate
in
Cloud,
but
also
run
those
workloads
consistently
in
their
data
centers
or
in
those
Banking
locations.
So
that's
really.
A
Good,
so
one
thing
I
picked
from
this:
one
is
the
sovereignty
or
data
sovereignty.
If
you
would,
it
is
really
important
for
for
banks
and
and
one
of
the
business
value
that
you
can
bring
up,
is
they
can
say
hey?
Do
you
need
to
go
Cloud
native
to
do
data
sovereignty?
No,
you
can
still
do
it,
but
what
is
the
difference
in
cost
for
doing
it
with
Cloud
native
versus
not
Cloud,
native
I?
Think
that's!
If
you
can
articulate
that
value.
A
B
So
let
me
refresher
for
all
the
things
I
wrote
here,
but
what's
great
about
this
use
case
here,
is
that
you
know
when
I
was
looking
back
at
like
some
of
the
the
presentations
and
such
that
the
customer
had
written
to
talk
about
their
Journey.
Thus
far,
it
starts
off
with
like
hey.
Let
me
explain
to
you
quickly
our
business
and
then
immediately
they
go
to
like
here's.
B
Some
like
challenges,
the
the
immediate
challenges
we
were
facing
and
then
right
after
that
was
here
are
our
goals,
so
by
orienting
pretty
specifically
on
what
their
first
like.
What
is
what
is
ultimately
do.
We
need
to
achieve
out
of
this
first
and
at
that
time
it
was
really
related
to
like
we
need
better
application
performance.
B
We
need
to
make
things
easier
to
maintain
because
things
were
like
you
know,
just
upgrading
the
their
primary
app
was
difficult
right,
so
they
had
some
very
clear
principles
on
like
which
goals
that
they
were
targeting
and
then
they
focused
it
on
the
first
app
one
app
so
I
think
that
really
helped
them
kind
of
go
through
this
journey
of
becoming
Cloud
native.
They
took
that
in
phases,
so
there
it's.
This
is
like
a
four-part
journey
in
that
you
know.
B
I
only
listed
six
projects
here,
but
it
is
like
if
I
were
to
actually
list
all
the
logos.
I
would
need
a
whole
separate
slide,
but
what
they
did
is
at
each
stage
they
were
able
to
go
and
focus
on.
Let
me
adopt
a
few
of
these
things,
because
first
thing
I'm
going
to
solve,
for
is
the
fact
that
you
know
everything's
takes
too
long.
B
So
they
focus
on
a
couple
of
projects,
get
some
of
those
things
in
learn,
and
then
they
would
go
to
the
next
stage
to
bring
in
some
more
to
bring
in
some
more
Technologies
like
adding,
adding
more
configurations
and
other
things
into
the
cluster
more
Technologies
into
the
cluster,
and,
what's
surprising,
is
that
around
stage
I
think
it
was
like
the
third
stage.
What
they
found
is
that
hey
now
we
actually
need
to
go
back
and
do
this
other
work
around
costing,
because
all
the
work
that
we
did,
because
we
added
so
much.
B
B
Faster
developers
could
deploy
faster,
like
Automation,
and
then
the
ability
to
scale
on
demand,
scale
up
and
down
on
demand
which
made
them
look
at
other
Technologies
and
then
just
greater
flexibility
being
able
to
go
through
those
step
by
step
and
then
not
biting
off
all
of
the
entire
cncf
ecosystem.
That
slide
with
all
the
logos
at
one
time,
but
phasing
that
in
allowed
them
to
adjust
and
go
and
go
along
the
way
now
that
they've
gone
they're
at
like
stage
4,
where
they're,
adding
in
things
like
service
mesh
and
some
other
more
Advanced
Technologies.
B
Now
that
they're
there
on
the
core
platform,
what
they're
now
doing
is
hey
now,
let's
now
look
at
these
other
two
apps
and
bring
them
into
the
fold,
so
I
think
one
of
the
things
with
you
know.
The
the
business
case
is
like
being
really
clear
and
crisp
on.
What
are
the
outcomes
that
you're
looking
for
putting
that
out
and
mapping
that
back
to?
How
does
that
deliver
back
to
the
organization?
The
app
that
was
selected
here
in
the
first
phase
was
their
primary
retail
management
app.
B
This
was
the
app
that
all
of
their
stores
use,
as
well
as
the
partners
who
sold
their
products.
This
was
a
configurator
for
a
customer
to
say,
like
I
would
like
this
thing
in
this
color
this
this
fabric,
this
blah
blah
blah.
It
was
the
customizer
tool
for
the
for
the
product
that
they
sold.
They
were
able
to
kind
of
optimize
that
and
then
you
know
they
can
show
value
related
to
that
app.
A
A
A
The
difference
which
I
find
about
Cloud
native
is
what
Chris
Rosen
talked
about
earlier.
Is
you
have
enforced
security
that
you
can
bring
in
a
brand
new
computer
science?
Graduate
bring
put
him
online
and
say:
hey,
start
writing
code
or
start
doing
it
he's
not
going
to
be
able
to
break
the
system.
There
is
a
lot
of
enforcements
done.
One
of
the
ways
I
feel
that
you
can
communicate
to
your
you
know.
A
Business
users
is
I,
can
get
a
developer,
productive,
so
much
faster.
They
can
do
work
so
much
faster
I
want
each
of
the
panel
to
say
you
know.
What
are
you
seeing
in
the
market?
Is
that
a
business
value
that
you
can
see
from
a
cloud
native
solution
of
developer
productivity,
and
we
can
then
relate
it
to
other
things
in
that
who
wants
to
go?
First.
B
B
Productivity
and
this
concept
of
path
production.
So
that's
that's
a
lot
of
conversations
that
we
have
with
companies
today,
because
if
you
talk
about
onboarding
time,
even
an
experienced
developer,
let's
say
onboarding
at
a
new
company
onboarding
into
a
new
project
how
long
before
they
get
the
environment.
How
long
does
it
take
them
to
figure
out,
like
you
know,
get
all
you
know
what
are
all
the
apis?
The
words
of
code
bases
all
the
things
that
they
need
to
work
on.
B
If
it's
a
new
team
I'd
say
like
that
is
a
that
is
a
keen
thing
that
has
been
been
really
a
Hot
Topic
and
you
can
see
it
by
like
how
packed
backstagecon
was
as
a
day
Zero
event
here.
The
the
community
is
really
kind
of
gravitating
towards
like
this
whole
concept
of.
Can
we
have
this
internal
developer
portal?
B
That
has
everything
that
we
can
put
like
on
the
application
catalogs
apis
and
like
can
we
use
that
as
a
way
to
also
build
in
some
guard
rails
so
that
anyone
even
someone
you've
just
hired
it
could
be
a
you
know:
new
college
grad.
We
have
some
customers
talking
about,
I
want
to
have
new,
College,
grads
start
and
I
want
them
to
be
productive.
Much
faster.
C
I
agree
so
I
think
that's
definitely.
The
focus
is
around
the
return
on
investment
of
our
scarce
resources,
which,
in
this
case
are
are
humans
that
we
need
to
develop
and
innovate
and
I.
Think
one
of
the
ways
that
we've
seen
is
an
abstraction
from
the
underlying
technology
that
enables
that
so,
whether
you're
running
you
know
on
openshift
or
tanzu
or
whatever,
that
the
developers
aren't
really
interacting
there
because
reality-
and
we
all
acknowledge
this-
that
kubernetes
is
hard
so
building
that
shim
the
proxy
to
the
developer,
where
they
engage
in
tools.
C
You
know
whether
it's
GitHub
gitlab,
whatever
your
developer
tools,
are
those
things
are
consistent.
That's
my
one
place
where
I
interact
and
it's
that
tooling,
the
pipelines
that
integrate
with
the
other
things,
the
you
know,
security
and
compliance,
checking
tools,
the
provisioning
tools.
All
of
those
things
are
abstracted
from
me
as
a
developer
and
that's
what
allows
them
to
move
faster
because
they
don't
need
to
learn
all
of
the
nuances
of
company,
a
versus
Company,
B
versus
you
know,
project,
C
and
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
D
Yeah
I
think
we're
in
violent
agreement,
but
the
just
one,
just
one
point
I
wanted
to
make
is
I
mean
Cloud
native
has
one
it's.
It's
not
clear
to
me
that
there
are
really
any
other
Alternatives
out
there
that
that
are
so
everybody's
using
Cloud
native
stuff
and
and
most
people
that
go
forward
pick
some
flavor
of
it.
But
then,
if
you
just
go
one
layer
above
it
exactly
exactly
what
are
the
integration
stories
around
it?
Do
you
actually
get
these
Services?
D
Can
an
organization
actually
provision
clusters
on
demand
for
engineers,
or
do
they
have
to
go
through
a
process
that
still
hasn't
quite
settled?
There's
a
wide
variety
of
approaches
to
it.
Some
are
very
old
school.
You
know
you
go
through
an
I.T
department
for
your
development
cluster
and
that's
today
still
happening
in
some
places,
and
some
are
you
know,
self-service
and
very,
very
Dynamic,
but
there's
a
huge
variance
within
the
cloud
native
community
on
these
approaches,
especially
at
the
Enterprise
level
and
I.
D
Think
that's
really
the
challenge
to
to
change
so
that
those
developers
can
can
actually
be
productive.
It's
one
thing
to
know
the
tools
and
know
the
environments,
but
do
they
actually
get
the
kind
of
the
infrastructure
to
be
really
productive?
That's
that's!
Really,
the
the
challenge
in
Enterprise
space.
A
So
going
to
Betty,
you
brought
up
the
retail
example.
That's
still
up
there.
What
was
the
cost
of
downtime,
because
one
of
the
things
that
if
you
talk
about
the
business
value-
and
you
say
hey
with
this
Cloud
native
solution-
we
can
reduce
downtime.
But
can
you
relate
that
to
what
is
would
have
been
the
cost
of
downtime?
If
that
retail
store
had
that.
B
Yeah
they
actually
had
an
interesting
thing:
they're
they're
like
when
it
came
to
rolling
out
any
upgrades,
or
you
know,
changes
to
the
application
it
required
downtime,
but
they're
like
hey.
This
app
is
for
all
of
our
Us
stores.
So
luckily
there's
a
period
in
which
the
stores
are
always
all
stores
are
closed,
so
they're
rolling
it
there.
The
risk
was
they
didn't.
They
didn't
quite
calculate
like
the
cost
of
downtime,
but
99
of
retail
sales
runs
through
this
application.
B
So
it's
a
huge
risk
right,
so
it's
not
only
for
their
stores,
but
it's
also
for
any
of
their
Partners
in
which
are
selling
their
merchandise.
But
the
thing
was
they're
like
it
was
so
inflexible.
So
the
fact
that,
like
we
wanted
to
add
more
functionality
but
we're
fundamentally
unable
to
because
just
doing
that
is
so
cumbersome
because
you
know
it's
not
only
just
the
the
the
architecture
of
that
was
monolithic,
so
they're
like
it.
It
was
just
hard
every
time
we
wanted
to
make
one
change.
B
It
was
take
so
long
before
we
could
do
all
the
testing
and
get
it
out
there,
but
it
was
had
a
cascading
effect
effect,
and
so
that
I
mean
the
change
was
just
not
happening.
Meanwhile,
the
business
is
growing
like
they'd
acquired
it
of
companies
and
expanded
their
portfolio,
and
they
wanted
to
kind
of
bring
that
into
the
fold,
but
they
couldn't
because
architecturally
their
hands
were
tied.
A
C
Now,
when
they
do
detect
bug,
because
everything
is
automated
instead
of
you
know,
we've
all
been
there
where
it
takes
weeks
or
longer
to
get
something
through
QA,
ultimately
rolled
out
into
production.
Now,
with
the
Tooling
in
place
and
the
automation
they
can
do
so
much
much
faster
and
when
those
bugs
and
those
issues
are
identified,
go
through
develop
effects
and
roll
that,
through
their
automated
change
management
process,
and
that
then
improves
the
efficiency
on
that
the
end-to-end
claims
process,
because
that's
really
what
they
care
about.
You
know
they
assume
the
technology.
C
Is
there
the
capacity?
Is
there
all
of
the
elasticity
that
they
need
to
run
these
Cloud
native
applications
to
them?
It's
really
can
we
handle
and
make
keep
our
customers
happy,
because
we
all
fear,
you
know
NPS
scores
and
getting
a
bad
rating,
so
they're
also
focused
on
that
driving.
The
customer
experience.
A
D
In
one
of
the
things
that
surprised
me
was
that
born
in
the
cloud
companies
I
should
go
through
digital
Transformations
as
well.
It's
not
just
kind
of
established
large
companies
that
move
from
an
on-prem
to
the
cloud
of,
but
it's
also
companies
that
have
always
started
in
the
cloud.
But
now
they've
actually
reached
enough
maturity
that
to
have
to
re-engineer
the
foundations
of
their
of
their
technology
stack
and
that's
often,
as
the
pre.
The
panelists
also
said
earlier.
It's
driven
by
a
couple
of
key
metrics,
for
example.
D
How
much
are
they
spending
on
the
cloud
and
and
what
they
expect
as
a
result
of
a
transformation,
is
an
ability
to
be
to
save
money
and
become
more
flexible
about
it
when,
where
and
and
how
they
deploy.
And
in
our
case
we
actually
address
these
multiple
layers.
So
there's
a
foundation
layer
that
you
need
to
put
in
place
to
be
able
to
transform
business,
to
adopt
a
cloud
native
Technologies,
which
then
in
turn
enables
a
much
more
flexible
application
development
cycle
than
what
they're
used
to.
So.
A
Okay,
I'm
going
to
ask
one
one
more
question
to
the
panelists
and
then
I
would
like
the
audience
to
you
know:
ask
you
questions
you
guys
all
talked
about
automation,
especially
Betty
and
Chris
Rosen.
You
know
in
Utah,
so
I
want
to
understand
the
business
value
of
automation.
The
way
I
look
at
automation
is:
if
I
have
a
capability
of
taking
an
application
and
automating
the
complete
way
to
go
and
get
into
production.
I
can
build
a
one-time
application.
Faster
I
can
put
it
on
the
public.
Cloud
I
can
put
it
on
the
private
Cloud.
A
C
So
if
we've
automated
the
development
pipeline
in
that
automate,
everything
through
infrastructures
code
from
deploying
my
resources
to
deploying
applications
to
Standing
Up
software-defined
Storage,
if
all
that's
automated,
it's
consistent,
so
we're
we're
saving
that
time
and
resource.
We
are
reducing
human
error.
It
allows
us
to
deploy
those
applications
consistently
in
the
different
environments.
C
So
it
really
drives
home
the
repeatability,
the
consistency,
the
building
in
the
security
checks
and
ensuring
that
we
don't
have
Rogue
people.
We
don't
want
Chris
Rosen,
pushing
code
to
you,
know
IBM
Cloud,
that's
not
the
move
we
want,
so
we've
got
the
right
controls
in
place.
So
that
way
everything
is
auditable.
It's
fully
enforceable.
C
We
can
control
who
has
what
level
of
access
and
that's
where
the
value
comes
in
and
that's
going
to
vary
for
each
customer
in
each
of
their
unique
situation,
because
everyone
has
a
different
starting
point
if
I'm
running
completely
in
monolithic
apps
today
and
I
go
through
and
I
refactor
to
Cloud
native,
that's
going
to
be
a
different
return
on
the
investment
compared
to
someone
that
was
already
like
Chris
had
born
on
the
cloud
I
embrace
containers
and
serverless,
but
now
I'm,
focusing
on
the
Automation
and
the
consistency.
That's
going
to
come
with
it.
B
Yeah
and
I
think
with
automation.
Also,
it's
a
what
you
know
well
you
want
to,
and
then
those
are
the
things
that
you
can
then
Define
and
standardize.
I
think
that's
the
thing,
because
if
you
want
to
go
into
a
mode
of
like
self-service
right,
what
you
want
to
do
is
make
sure
that
if
you
want
people
to
be
able
to
self-service
environments,
what
you
want
to
do
is
build
in
the
right
policies
and
the
configuration.
B
So
it's
not
like
at
time
of
self-servicing
I
as
a
developer,
I'm,
going
to
say
like
oh,
what
do
I
get
I
can
pick
whatever
I
want,
because
that's
that's
not
what
you're
going
for
right.
So
it's
really
kind
of
defining
those
for
the
customer.
What
they
have
mapped
out
is
when
a
developer
is
ready
to
like
deploy
their
code.
It
was
a
nine
step
manual
process
with
lots
of
people
involved
and
they
were
like
that
is
hugely
inefficient
prone
to
error.
B
D
Chris,
yes,
and
the
the
one
one
aspect
I
would
focus
on
just
next
to
the
others
that
were
mentioned
is
actually
know
how
and
encapsulating
know-how
the
you
know.
If
you
look
at
the
cloud
native
space,
it's
actually
fairly
large
and
not
every
engineer
is
as
Adept
at
Kafka
as
they
would
be
at
the
service
mesh
versus
cicd
pipelines,
whatever
it
is
and
encapsulating
that
know-how,
making
it
reusable
making
it
automated
is
key
and
I.
Think
that's
that's
one
aspect
that
that's
really
important.
A
B
A
C
So
the
question
is
in
different
customers.
Have
we
seen
that
the
organization
within
that
customer
impacts
their
ability
to
adopt
devops,
Cloud
native
and
and
I
chuckle,
because
the
answer
is
absolutely
yes,
it's
generally
more
of
a
cultural
shift
to
embrace
it
than
it
is
a
technology
Challenge
and
and
honestly,
that's
the
biggest
hurdle.
Is
people
get
stuck,
and
this
is
how
I've
done
it.
This
is
how
we've
always
done
it,
and
we
have
to
step
back
and
say
you
know,
let's
not
take
this
personally,
but
maybe
that's
not
working
optimally
for
you.
C
A
C
Exactly
exactly
it
really
requires
buying
and
the
thing
that
I,
like
that
Betty
said
when
she
was
introducing
her
use
case
was-
and
this
is
the
key
to
success-
is
start
small
pick
one
project,
one
team,
that's
willing
to
be
an
innovator
and
try
something
and
then
stand
them
up
as
the
gold
standard
in
success
breeds
success.
When
another
team
sees
that
this
team
is
being
so
successful
and
they're
pushing
out
20
times
a
day,
they
want
to
embrace
that
and
be
able
to
accelerate
and
innovate
at
the
same
Pace
I.
A
Just
want
to
bring
up
something
about
organizational
structure.
If,
for
those
who
have
seen
the
history
of
Amazon,
they
came
up
with
their
web
services
back
up
in
2008,
however,
their
Journey
really
started
in
2002
or
2003.
When
the
CEO
came
and
said,
everything
is
going
to
be
API
driven,
so
the
whole
company
was
built
on
an
SOA
architecture,
starting
in
2002
till
they
came
up
with
first
product,
fully
API,
driven
in
2006
or
2008.
That's
kind
of
the
change
you
have
and
then
wait.
A
Chris
said
Chris
Rosen
just
brought
up
where
you
get
one
team
when
you
when,
when
Salesforce
started
getting
adopted
for
CRM
some
folks
saying
hey,
why
is
this
sales
guy
doing
so?
Well,
oh
he's
using
this
Cloud
CRM
and
he's
much
more
effective
than
the
rest
of
us.
So
everybody
started
adopting
that
because
they
see
success
on
one
side,
so
Betty
go
ahead.
Oh.
B
So
I
was
going
to
say
we
what's
interesting
is
if
I
look
back
from
my
time.
You
know
in
the
early
days
of
containerization
at
Docker
to
like
what
I'm
seeing
now
is
back.
Then
they
were
called
like
Innovation
teams.
You
had
this.
You
had
this
team
that
kind
of
went
out
to
like
figure
out
what
is
all
this
stuff
right.
They
were
experimenting
in
Cloud.
They
were
playing
around
with
containers,
they
were
kind
of
pushing
the
vendors
to
understand,
and
then
they
were
like.
B
Okay,
let's
figure
out
someone
who
can
be
a
candidate
at
in
the
organization
to
you
know
be
the
first
sample
person
to
you
know
play
with
get
something
onto
the
platform.
Now
it's
I
feel
like
it's
become
a
little
more
mainstream.
I
see
this
sometimes
living
in
those
who
own
the
cloud
strategy
like
if
you're
making
decisions
on
cloud
you're,
also
making
decisions
on
cloud
native
and
then
also
seeing
things
like
platform
teams.
A
Any
other
questions
from
the
audience
raise
your
hand,
shout
it
out.
Okay,
if
that's
the
thing
I'm
going
to
ask
the
panelists,
where
do
you
see
the
future
of
cloud
native
going
and
and
adding
value
to
businesses?
Is
there
any
particular
industry
you
might
see
or
anything
with
multi-cloud
or
Edge,
or
something
that
you
see
that
is
going
to
be
driving
additional
value
in
the
next?
You
know,
maybe
three
to
five
years
with
Cloud
native
Technologies
and
that'll
be
how
we
land
our
session
that
okay,
who
wants
to
go
first
yeah.
D
A
B
Because
I
think,
as
kubernetes
kubernetes
has
gotten
pretty
mature,
but
what
the
the
ecosystem
around
it
has
really
been
around
I
think
innovating
at
the
infrastructure
surrounding
kubernetes,
like
how
do
we
do
all
that
stuff
there?
First
for
our
runtime
and
management,
and
now
we're
like
oh
right,
this
is
really
kind
of
complicated
to
throw
a
developer
just
right
at
it.
C
The
other
I
would
just
broadly
say,
I,
think
the
direction
is
going
around
usability
and
really
focused
on
the
user
experience
of
consuming
these
Technologies
when
you
think
about
when
a
new
project
comes
out
and
I'll
I'll
pick
on
istio
as
an
example,
when
that
became
an
open
source
project,
it
was
very
powerful.
There
were
a
lot
of
things
that
you
could
do
with
it,
but
docs
were
a
little
lagging.
C
The
usability
was
a
little
bit
behind,
so
they
really
had
to
focus
in
as
a
community
to
improve
those
areas
to
be
able
to
bring
that
technology
to
mainstream
else.
You're
really
limited
to
a
few
outliers,
so
I
think
the
whole
Cloud
native
space
is
focused
on
streamlining
the
usability
building,
the
dev
tools,
taking
that
to
the
edge
and
making
all
of
that
more
consumable,
more
secure
for
those
users.
A
Great
with
that
give
a
hand
to
our
panelists
and
thank
you
for
thank
you
for
attending.
If
you
want
to
you
know
rate
this
session,
it
would
be
great
for
us
to
get
feedback
for
the
next
session
and
for
those
who
are
really
interested
in
Edge.
We
had
a
session
earlier
today
and
you
can
watch
the
recording
of
that.
We,
you
know
Chris
brought
up.
That
edge
was
popular
for
so
you
want
to
Deep
dive
into
that
that's
an
earlier
session.
Thank
you.