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From YouTube: The Course Of True Community Management Never Did Run Smooth, In 1 Act - Karsten Wade & Jen Madriaga
Description
Don’t miss out! Join us at our upcoming event: KubeCon + CloudNativeCon Europe 2023 in Amsterdam, The Netherlands from April 17-21. Learn more at https://kubecon.io. The conference features presentations from developers and end users of Kubernetes, Prometheus, Envoy, and all of the other CNCF-hosted projects.
The Course Of True Community Management Never Did Run Smooth, In 1 Act - Karsten Wade & Jen Madriaga, Red Hat
Over the years the Open Source ecosystem has evolved community values and practices. The Kubernetes community centers kindness and inclusivity, practicing accessibility as a way of building a diverse community. While the K8s community has brought attention and change in the ecosystem, neither the values nor the practices originated there. K8s-flavored, yes, but also similar to other communities such as OpenInfra, Drupal, and the Linux distributions. In this one-act play with two practitioners, Jen breaks down successful community caretaking and stewardship through the way we run events such as KubeCon, and Karsten offers a live diff, comparing and contrasting the Jen's experience with his own and what is gathered in the Open Source Way guidebook for community management practices. Embracing storytelling, two very different literary nerds provide an overview of how community management works in the Open Source world, and an understanding of the differences and similarities to a broader, extrapolated view from a diverse community of practice.
A
A
You
know
I,
know
Jen,
you
know,
I
really
don't
like
it
either,
but
you
know
I
can't
even
really
fall
back
on
the
self-incarnation
of
ADHD
and
like
public
shaming,
for
all
my
shortcomings,
of
which
there
are
many,
because
it
really
is
just
the
way
things
are
this
time.
No
one
is
at
fault,
there
are.
No
real
mistakes
have
been
made,
we're
just
here
to
do
the
best
we
can.
B
A
B
A
Yeah,
nice,
okay!
Well,
what
do
you
mean
by
old
guidebook?
We
just
updated
it
to
the
2.0
version
last
year
and
the
chapter
in
governance.
It
includes
the
very
Evolution
from
projects
such
as
those
in
the
cloud
native
ecosystem.
So
you
see
it's
really
all
just
derived
from
what
we've
all
been
doing
for
two
and
even
three
decades,
and
we
wrote
it
down
the
guidebook
it'll.
Take
me
just
a
few
moments
to
find
it.
Okay,.
B
C
A
Oh
yeah,
no
I,
suppose
you
don't
I'm
sorry
I'm
I'm,
not
myself
this
morning,
I'm
just
really
stressed
and
just
falling
into
conditioning.
You
know
it,
and
that
was
pretty
good
condescending
with
me
and
dismissive
to
to
treat
your
hard
work
in
all
of
these
communities
where
you've
been
enabling
massive
cross-pollination
with
Erie,
Community
event,
strategies
and
I
know
the
folks
who've
learned
so
much
from
ear
to
mouth
have
created
the
quality
of
user
and
contributor
experience
here
in
the
cloud
native
communities,
and
it's
really
impressive.
It's
also
a
little
sad
to
me.
A
You
know
Jim
for
the
last
three
years
since,
since
we
wrote
this,
the
guidebook
and
I've
been
publicizing.
This
new
version.
You
know,
I've,
been
on
this
for
about
15
years
now,
right,
I've
been
and
and
I've
been
having
hundreds
of
these
conversations
on
these
topics,
like
just
in
this
last
year
alone
and
and
I've,
been
attending
Talks
by
other
community
managers
and
people.
Folks,
don't
really
recognizing
how
the
job
is
this
world
of
stewardship
and
caretaking
and
and
there's
this
one
universal
truth
that
I'm
fighting
against
that
everyone
is
doing
the
similar
right
things.
D
A
C
A
Right
we
do
see
why
I'm
sad,
though
there's
so
much
dismissed,
opportunity
to
Mentor
each
other,
to
capture
and
share
knowledge
and
to
build
community
for
people
who
are
stewarding
communities.
You
know
so
many
people
having
to
go
it
alone,
while
focusing
all
their
energy
on
enabling
others
to
be
successful
and
a
little
time
on
enabling
themselves
and
those
like
them
to
be
successful.
B
A
B
B
I
get
that
and
you
know,
Carson
I'm
glad
you
understand
that
I
mean
thank
you
for
saying
so
so
I'm
sure
they've
heard
from
people
how
hard
it
is
to
get
shut
down
by
rtfm
and
an
open
source
Community.
Even
if
you
felt
welcome
up
to
that
point,
I
know
you've
seen
the
research
results
that
Demetrius
Cheatham
from
all
on
open
source
is
getting
where
marginalized
people
are
successful.
A
A
The
one
I
wanted
to
focus
on
was
was
how
this
old
and
a
new
I
haven't
been
finding
ways
to
communicate
and
are
isolated
and
duplicating
efforts
and
the
need
of
a
person
in
a
similar
situation
to
share
a
coffee
or
tea
with
and
talk,
and
it
feels
like
we're
starting
to
communicate
better
between
the
two
of
us.
So
how
about?
If
you
tell
me
more
about
the
role
that
you've
played
in
open
source
communities,
what
has
it
taught
you,
and
how
do
you
conduct
things
as
a
result?
B
B
My
journey
in
Tech
has
been
non-linear.
I
started
out
in
arts
management.
I
was
a
non-profit
I
was
in
higher
ed
I
was
a
barista.
I
was
a
retail
worker.
I
was
a
housekeeper,
and
so
I
had
no
direct
Pathway
to
being
in
open
source
communities.
But
one
thing
that
keeps
me
in
this
space
and
I've
been
in
it
for
the
past.
B
Eight
years
is
knowing
that
I'm
here
to
enable
other
people's
to
people,
to
succeed,
I'm
here
to
make
sure
that
I
lead
the
world
a
better
place
than
what
I
left
it
and
the
aspirational
aspect
is
what
makes
me
feel
like
I
belong
here,
despite
all
the
barriers
of
which
there
are
many.
So,
of
course,
I
want
to
recognized
my
intersectionality
I'm,
a
woman
I'm,
a
person
who
is
a
daughter
of
immigrants
from
the
Philippines
I
am
a
first
generation.
B
B
B
It
means
letting
access
to
parts
of
ourselves
that
maybe
that
we
haven't
revealed
to
others
publicly
before,
and
so
you
know
I'm
here
to
say,
I'm
ready
to
work
with
you
and
with
you
and
with
you
and
with
you,
because
I'm
going
to
embrace
your
difference
and
I'm
going
to
embrace
that
difference,
because
it's
going
to
bring
the
best
things
to
me.
I
will
always
only
expect
the
best
things
of
other
people
and
to
me
that's
the
joy
of
Open
Source.
B
That's
what
keeps
me
going
when
I
have
to
deal
with
an
a-hole
when
I
deal
with
someone
who
says
you
don't
belong
here.
I
realized
that
you
know
what
everyone's
dealing
with
issues
of
belonging
and
I
want
to
say.
I
belong
here,
but
you
know
what
not
only
do
I
belong
here.
I
want
to
say
to
other
people.
A
Wow,
that's
I,
I,
didn't
know
what
you're
going
to
say
today,
so
thank
you,
but
there
and
and
there
and
but
I
didn't
without
even
knowing
what
you're
going
to
say.
I
knew
such
that
I
could
write
in
the
script
that
there
was
so
much
in
there.
That
was
like
my
own
experience
and
so
much
that
is
different.
You
know,
I've
I
alluded
to
the
masking
earlier.
You
know
some
of
the
details
like
I
I,
I
I
stopped
working
in
in
restaurants.
A
I
didn't
understand
in
the
margins
of
my
notes,
of
every
little
list
and
I
went
I
studied
and
I
came
back
with
answers
again
and
again
and
again
until
I
understood
what
I
was
doing
so
I
faked
it
until
I
made
it
right
and
the
and
the
the
level
of
difficulties
it's
not
about
I
mean
this,
isn't
a
contest
right.
It's
like
I
have
experiences
that
help
me
understand.
Yours,
I
haven't
been
to
the
same
things
that
you've
been
through,
but
but
by
sympathy.
A
My
empathy
is
solidly
there
for
it
because
it
makes
you
know
it's
and
I
think
that's
really
always
something.
That's
really
helped
me
see
during
the
time
that
I've
been
working
in
open
source
communities,
that,
when
I
started
working
in
Fedora
docs
project
and
as
a
you
as
a
docs
contributor
and
took
on
a
leadership
role
and-
and
the
main
thing
for
me
was
just
always
noticing
that
I
suspected
that
other
people,
at
least
to
some
part,
had
in
their
minds.
A
Some
self-doubt,
like
I,
did
that
they,
when
they
heard
other
people
seeming
like
they
all,
were
felt
like
they
belonged
and
knew
what
they
were
doing
and
felt
left
out
that
I
figured
everybody
had
some
degree
of
that
as
well.
So
I
just
always
focused
on
going
to
address
the
feelings
in
other
people.
That
I
was
worried
about
in
myself.
Now,
honestly,
we
call
that
codependency
and
I
have
to
admit
to
having
had
a
20-year
codependent
relationship
with
open
source
that
I'm
working
on
and
we're
really
working
on
working
on
fixing
right
now.
A
A
You
know
never
forgetting
to
go
back
and
practice
over
and
over
again
these
these
essential
core
things
and
and
recognize
them
to
deal
with.
The
excuse
me
there's
not
the
difference
between
somebody
who
was
new
to
a
space
and
somebody
who's
been
there
for
a
while
is
just
that
someone's
new
and
someone's
been
there
for
a
while.
You
know
everyone's
got
something
valid
and
and
every
year
I
learn
things
in
open
source
from
from
200
people
that
I
hadn't,
even
known
before
so
and
I.
A
Think
I
can
say
that
that
just
in
terms
of
feeling
like
and
and
trying
to
understand
how
we
get
here,
how
we
got
here
today,
you
know
it
definitely
definitely
feels
like
it's.
This
combination
of
this
human,
this
societal
conditioning
right
that
has
our
it
keeps
our
senses
all
focused
on.
What's
going
on
at
the
moment
of
time,
when
I'm
delivering,
what's
going
on
with
it,
I've
got
to
get
to
this
event.
A
I've
got
to
make
something
happen
and
not
being
able
to
see
where
we
are
also
in
the
context
of
History
right,
and
so
it's
we
all
have
a
duty
on
both
sides
of
that
to
question
where
we
are
in
the
context
of
history
and
to
answer
that
question
for
each
other
and
so
I
think
we
may
have
a
root
cause
analysis.
You
know
in
some
way
forward.
B
You
know
I
think
we
do.
You
know
we're
beginning
to
turn
the
tide.
In
many
ways,
the
welcomeness
and
inclusive
nature
of
the
kubernetes
community
really
exemplifies
that
it
is
happening,
but
we
still
have
a
long
way
to
go.
In
fact,
one
of
our
big
risks
on
that
journey
is
forgetting.
Why
we're
doing
it
of
leaving
people
up,
because
we
get
too
busy
to
share
the
stories
with
each
other
and
new
people,
a
danger
of
poking
too
much
on
repeatable
formulas
on
how
to
get
things
done
the
what
done.
B
A
And
you
know,
I
could
have
said
it
better
myself,
which
I
you
know,
I
think
is
also
the
point.
I
I've
learned
if
I
sit
in
a
room
and
just
listen
a
lot
of
times,
people
will
say
the
thing
that
I
wanted
to
say
right
so
and
and-
and
it's
just
been
like
that,
since
the
last
two
decades
every
year,
I
feel
like
I'm
learning
new
things
about
open
collaboration
from
people
who
are
on
just
their
first
days
in
in
participating
in
open
source.
A
Somebody's
very
first
question
will
open
my
mind
in
a
way
I
hadn't
thought
of
before,
and
it's
because
this
isn't
a
fixed
knowledge
base.
It's
there
are
truths
and
practices
that
do
seem
to
hold
up
to
the
test
of
time
and
others
that
have
simply
gone
to
the
Wayside
I
mean
take
the
term
rtfm.
For
example,
there
was
a
time
when
people
people
like
myself
might
have
thought
that
there
was
a
kindness
to
suggest
that
people
go
through
the
useful
experience
of
being
productively
lost
in
code
or
content.
B
B
A
A
A
D
D
B
I
want
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
that
because,
yes,
Carson
said
there
was
a
certain
way
of
doing
open
stars
and
I
would
characterize
that
doing.
An
open
source
was
trade
like
a
hazing
process
right
and
it
was
accepted
for
many
years,
but
hey
that's
the
best
way
we
want
to
toughen
people
up.
We
want
people.
C
A
A
B
So
you
know
I,
think
part
of
it
is
it's
actually
not
just
on
the
individual
individual
contributor
to
look
out
for
themselves
right,
so
the
entire
purpose
of
community
is
that
everyone's
looking
out
for
everyone
right
and
so
you
know,
kind
of
what
Carson
was
speaking
to
is
that
you
know
those
of
us
who
have
been
in
the
community
for
a
while,
really
I
know
this
word's
been
overused,
but
we
need
to
Pivot.
You
know
we
have
to
look
at
a
new
way
of
doing
things.
B
B
Why
do
I?
Sorry?
Why
did
why
do
I
need
to
to
change?
Because
you
know
the
way
that
I
did
things
worked,
but
that
assumes
that
the
world
is
as
static.
That
is
same
as
that,
Community
is
static,
and
it's
not
right.
So
one
thing
that
I
observed
so
like
I,
say:
I
used
to
work
in
education
is
I've
observed
that
current
Generations
Generations
are
up
and
coming
they
question
the
way
things
are
done.
B
They
don't
accept
it
anymore
and
I
will
say
that
as
someone
who
is
a
gen,
xer
I
was
just
kind
of
told
to
shut
up
and
keep
working.
You
know
and
I
don't
know
that
I
was
fully
aware
of
it,
but
when
I
talk
to
other
gen
xers
I
realize
hey,
that's
what
we
were
taught,
but
we
were
always
thinking.
You
know
what
this
stuff
is
crazy.
You
know
what
a
bunch
of,
but
we
just
didn't
ever
say
it
and
so
I
think
what
it
took.
B
Is
it
took
a
group
of
people
to
actually
finally
call
out
the
so
to
speak,
being
brave
enough
to
do
that,
but
you
can't
do
that
I
think
always
as
an
individual.
Sometimes
you
have
to
like
for
me:
I
had
to
put
a
stake
in
the
ground:
Airman
Dei
stuff,
like
I
co-founded,
the
Asian
Network
at
red
hat,
and
we
didn't
have
one
which
people
think.
How
is
that
possible?
B
B
So
part
of
what
I
would
also
say
is
that
you
know
if
you're
feeling
a
sense
of
imposter
syndrome
and
I'm
super
guilty
of
that
right
and
part
of
it
is
that
when
you
are
feeling
imposter
syndrome,
we're
also
looking
for
external
validation,
we're
looking
for
someone
to
affirm
our
worth
we're.
Looking
for
someone
to
say
hey,
you
know
what
your
contribution
is
awesome,
but
that's
only
one
part
of
the
story
right
and
the
thing
is
all
of
us
are
going
to
screw
up.
B
Who've
had
to
encounter
that
you
know
and
we're
lucky
enough,
maybe
to
find
our
own
resilience.
But
you
know,
we've
lose
lots
and
lots
of
Open
Source
contributors,
because
maybe
they
don't
have
that
same
kind
of
resilience,
and
so
you
know
what?
Let's:
let's
create
another
pathway,
let's
create
another
way
of
being:
let's
create
a
new
infrastructure
for
onboarding
people.
A
Oh
yeah
I
was
I'm,
so
glad
I
get
to
go
after
you,
the
that's
what
I
mean
like
like
that
was
perfect.
Thank
you
so
the
because
my
short
answer
is
I
drank
right,
like
I
and
and
you
I
suppress
the
feelings
of
not
belonging
and
not
being
there
and
I
never
looked
sideways
to
the
other
people
around
me,
which
I
think
is
part
of
what
I
was
hearing
from.
What
Jen
was
saying.
A
Is
that
as
a
gen
xer
like
it
might
you
know,
I
was
so
focused
on
what
I
was
supposed
to
be
doing
and
trying
to
ignore
what
was
going
on
in
my
context
and
the
feeling
I
wasn't
looking
to
catch,
the
other
people
were
having
these
experiences
so
the
which
can
be
good
by
the
way.
But
sorry
story
came
to
mind,
but
that's
not
appropriate
for
today.
I
think
the
the
the
the
the
part
that
that
somebody
started
looking
sideways.
Somebody
called
out
the
emperor's
clothes.
A
It
has
no
clothes
right
and
it's
had
the
effect
of
allowing
all
of
us
to
turn
sideways
and
to
talk
to
each
other,
and
so
so
to
me
the
simple,
the
kind
of
the
I
was
gonna,
say:
Simple,
Solutions,
yeah
I
almost
use.
The
word
simple.
The
solution
to
me
is
to
try
to
reach
out
to
other
people,
to
acknowledge
where
we're
at
and
and
and
and
know
that,
whoever
you
are
as
an
individual.
A
The
odds
are
that
there's
somebody
else
in
the
room
who
is
feeling
a
similar
feeling
and
maybe-
and
maybe
it
maybe
it
has
another-
is
it
marginalized
in
another
wave
and
more
so
or
it's
feeling
something,
and
so
there's
this
degree
in
which
that's
that's
the
peer
mentoring
like
we
can
be
there
for
each
other.
So
that's
simple,
like
I'm
I'm
feeling
this
I'm
feeling
awkward
and
so
so
I
I
will
often
so
I
get
the
flip
side
of
it.
I
get
you
know
so.
A
I
can
I
take
advantage
of
my
experience
and
expertise
and
and
my
my
whiteness
and
so
my
ability
to
spin
so
I
will
speak
up
and
say
the
thing
that's
I'm
like
I,
really
don't
understand
what
that
was
about.
Can
you
explain
to
us
or
you're?
Just
there's.
You
call
out
the
things
that
I
know.
Other
people's
brains
aren't
getting
probably
like
mine,
the
rest
of
Italy.
So
that's
like
one
side
of
it.
I
will
basically
call
out
that
I'm
that
I'm
lost
and
I'm
feeling
like
I,
don't
know
like
I.
Don't
belong
right.
A
The
but
I
I
didn't
used
to
do
that.
So
that's
and
and
I
can
do
that
now,
because
I
have
that
comfort
of
that
very
solid
privilege
of
of
I've
actually
earned
what
I've
done
as
and
I'm
not
earned
it
I
mean
I'm,
actually
at
the
point
where
I've
done
the
work
I'm
like
I've
done
the
years
now,
instead
of
us
ahead
of
behind
me
kind
of
thing.
So
oh
and
I
stopped
drinking
I
mean
that
was
part
of
the
yeah
yeah.
C
Thanks
I
was
just
wondering
if
you
have
any
recommendations
for
like
how
to
put
how
to
protect
or
Safeguard
your
emotional
energy
when
you're
dealing
with
community
and
like
I,
find
it
if,
if
there's
somebody
who's
struggling,
I
will
over
worry
about
the
person
who
is
struggling
and
that
will
warp
my
own
right.
It's
like
recommendations
around
that.
A
I
I
mean
I,
I
want
to
say
only
two
things
on
that
one
one
is
we.
We
do
have
a
chapter
in
the
community
open
source
way
that
tried
to
address
that
right
and
the
problem
with
that
chapter.
Is
it
doesn't
it's
it's
all
about
how
what
you
can
do
as
an
individual
right
and-
and
so
the
first
response
is
like
is:
is
that
it's
not
it's
the
organization,
that's
supporting
you
who's,
who?
How
are
who
are
you
here
representing
or
how
are
they?
What
can
they
be
doing
now?
Take
care
of
you?
B
There
there's
a
systemic
portion.
You
know
that,
maybe
we
don't
have
a
lot
of
control
over.
You
know
you
may
have
a
workflow,
that's
meant
to
work.
You
to
death
like
I'll.
Just
be
honest,
you're,
a
lot
of
us
in
community
that
we're
just
expected
to
do
every
like
everything
and
and
then
people
want
us
to
also
be
their
emotional
caretakers
too.
B
Right
like
that
does
happen
a
lot,
especially
because,
if
you're
an
emotional
I
mean
if
you're
a
community
manager,
you're
you're,
at
least
for
me,
I
feel
like
I,
have
to
responsible
I
have
to
model
responsible,
emotional,
centeredness
and
I.
Think
that's
where
the
exhaustion
comes
in
is
that
we
don't
have
a
way
to
like
let
go
of
the
stuff
that
we're
feeling
upset
about,
because
we're
caretaking,
the
community,
we're
kind
of
taking
members
and
we're
all
human
beings
and
I.
B
Don't
know
that
those
of
us
who
are
doing
the
community
building
and
the
Community
Management
stuff
we're
not
really
allowed
to
let
our
hair
down
so
to
speak.
We're
not
allowed
to
to
show
hey
I'm,
anxious
about
this
too
hey.
This
is
kind
of
scary
too,
because
you're
trying
to
maintain
a
sense
of
equilibrium,
I
think
for
your
community
right,
like
you,
don't
want
people
to
panic,
but
honestly
we
have
to
also
just
acknowledge
those
things
like
one
of
the
things
that
I
found
like
during
the
pandemic.
B
When
I,
you
know,
I
have
a
team
of
people
under
me.
Anxiety
was
like
the
number
one
thing.
I
was
dealing
with
my
team
just
anxiety.
It
wasn't
even
like
anything
specific.
It
was
just
anxiety
around
the
uncertainty
of
the
world
and
I.
Just
finally
said,
you
know
what
I'm
feeling
it
too,
like
I,
have
no
idea
what's
going
to
happen
next,
you
know
he's
choking
about.
Like
the
you
know,
the
locusts
and
everything
coming
and
I'm
like
that
might
happen.
B
You
know,
and
so
you
know,
part
of
being
Community
is
actually
dealing
with
uncertainty,
a
lot
you
know
and
then
now
it's
exacerbated
by
everything.
That's
happened
the
past
few
years,
but
I
think
also
just
means
that
we're
Awakening
right-
and
this
is
part
of
the
reason
we're
having
this
talk-
is
that
you
know
what
let's
go
ahead
and
see.
B
If
we
can
find
a
way
to
build
an
infrastructure
for
those
of
us
that
are
doing
the
caretaking,
because
maybe
we're
good
at
taking
care
of
others,
but
maybe
we
can
find
a
way
to
take
care
of
each
other
to
maybe
redistribute
the
workload.
So
it's
not
just
us
and
our
community,
but
it's
a
whole
community
of
caretakers
and
then
we
can
collectively
have
some
sort
of
knowledge
base
to
care
for
ourselves,
as
well
as
our
communities.
A
And
in
case
it
wasn't,
obviously
continual
references
back
to
the
guidebook
is
the
joke
of
how
we
all
immediately
dive
into
a
tool
we'll
be
like.
We
need
a
solution,
we
all
start
playing
the
tool
out
for
it.
This
is
the
time
to
just
put
the
tools
away.
Let's
just
build
that
sense
of
conversation
between
us
and
see
what
comes
from
it.
Tools
are
there
when
we
need
them.