►
Description
Don’t miss out! Join us at our upcoming event: KubeCon + CloudNativeCon Europe in Amsterdam, The Netherlands from April 17-21, 2023. Learn more at https://kubecon.io The conference features presentations from developers and end users of Kubernetes, Prometheus, Envoy, and all of the other CNCF-hosted projects.
BoF: How Can We Build Stronger User Support Groups? - Steven Wong, VMware
Speakers: Steven Wong
Local User Groups, with physical meetings and were growing until covid hit. Replacement Zoom based groups have seen limited success.
We would like to gather the user community to brainstorm ideas on how we might come out of the covid break, with a strong support system that allow users to make friends, share experiences and best practices, while providing feedback to projects & vendors. We are seeking an environment offering coaching and education, without crossing the line into highly partial promotion of commercial products.
We’ll start with a brief introduction - then turn to moderator managed audience participation. If you are a member or an organizer of a group, we need your ideas. Please attend.
Topics: How can we foster and improve local physical meetings, where users have a great learning & sharing experience? How can the CNCF and projects support the groups operating now?
What is the best structure for global scope Zoom based User Groups? Special interest groups based on cloud type, or should it be use case based (such as Machine Learning, Financial, Retail, etc.)? Other?
Bring us your ideas, and challenges, and share your experiences with the community - Help make the cloud native journey better for users.
A
A
The
goal
here
is
to
brainstorm
ideas
on
how
we
might
come
out
of
the
pandemic,
with
a
strong
support
system
that
allows
users
to
make
friends
share,
experiences
and
best
practices
while
providing
feedback
to
projects
and
vendors.
This
is
a
birds
of
a
feather
session
and
I.
Don't
know.
Some
of
you
might
already
be
familiar
with
the
concept,
but
these
are
a
little
different
than
a
typical
presentation
session.
I'll
just
go
down
a
quick
summary
down
the
middle.
The
purpose
here
is
to
have
a
discussion
not
to
transfer
knowledge.
A
The
expert
here
is
by
no
means
me:
it's
you,
the
audience
who
asked
the
questions.
I'll
propose
a
few
to
get
discussion
started
but
and
we'll
move
on
from
there.
The
audience
role
here
is
to
share
opinions,
experience
and
feedback.
So
if
you'd
like
comma,
come
on
up
for
a
more
intimate
setting
and
we'll
be
all
talking
to
one
another,
so
I
see
my
role
as
just
facilitating
discussion
and
keeping
on
keeping
this
on
track.
The
kubernetes
community
already
supports
user
groups
in
some
factor,
and
these
are
found
on
the
kubernetes
community
calendar.
A
A
The
the
cncf
also
has
some
use
case.
Aligned
groups
like
The
iot
Edge
working
group
that
recently
moved
over
from
the
kubernetes
upper
organization,
and
there
is
a
telecom
user
group
I'm
aware
of
I-
think
there's
one
or
two
more.
The
cncf
has
the
portal
for
and
labeled
end
user
Community
I
went
and
looked
at
that
just
this
morning
and
it
sort
of
is
geared
towards
companies
that
would
become
sponsors
of
the
cncf
with
annual
participation
programs,
and
you
can
learn
more
about
it
there.
A
It
didn't
really
have
direct
links
to
actual
operating
user
groups.
If
you
felt
you
wanted
to
join
one
and
the
reasons
I
think
people
join.
These
are
not
so
much
to
listen
to
presentations
like
you
find
at
kubecon,
but
also
in
the
sense
of
local
physical
meetup
groups.
It's
a
place
where
people
engage
age
and
make
friends,
maybe
even
look
for
jobs
within
one
another
or
advertise
postings
in
their
local
community.
A
So
that's
what
it's
about
I!
Don't
know
I'll
just
skip
through
this.
This
is
another
slide
I
found
on
the
cncf
portal.
Kubernetes
meetup
groups
pre-covid.
These
were
very
healthy
in
Los
Angeles,
where
I
come
from
the
attendance
at
the
monthly
kubernetes
meetup
group
actually
reached
250
people
was
deemed
unmanageably
large
and
we
forked
into
two
groups,
east
and
west
side,
and
each
of
the
two
eventually
was
drawing
up
to
200
people
per
month.
A
They
died
completely
during
covet.
We
haven't
had
one
since
I've
been
trying
to
bring
one
back
but
had
difficulty
recruiting
a
sponsor
to
supply
a
venue
in
L.A
they
used
to
be
held
occasionally
at
Disney,
for
example,
or
at
att's
DirecTV
division,
which
had
a
big
Studio
space
with
a
lot
of
capacity.
I
am
aware
of
some
user
groups
that
actually
Thrive
through
covid,
the
one
in
Atlanta.
A
C
F
B
B
F
D
So
my
name
is
Alexis
I
work
as
a
developer
advocate
for
elastic
before
that.
I
was
a
devops
engineer
and
I
would
say
that
my
introduction
into
kubernetes
was
when
I
was
in
devops,
but
since
being
a
developer,
Advocate
I
joined
a
kubernetes
user
group
in
Dallas
Texas
and
we
haven't
met
a
lot
this
year,
but
I'm,
hoping
that
that
changes.
C
Hi,
my
name
is
Rin
I
use
they
them
pronouns
I'm
from
Oakland
California,
where
I
work
for
honeycomb,
which
is
observability,
tooling
I,
run
the
open,
Telemetry
meetup
group
right
now,
which
is
a
fully
virtual
meetup
group,
but
Jeff
came
off.
Organizing
are
essentially
second
Community
Day
type
gathering
for
the
open,
Telemetry
Community,
which
was
a
very
big
lift,
so
experience
doing
an
in-person
thing
now
interest
in
conversations
with
developer
Advocates
from
all
over
about
possibly
doing
local
meetups.
But
how
do
we
do
that?
What
does
that?
A
E
I
did
talk
to
some
places
that
have
had
much
more
successful
online
meetups
like
the
folks
over
in
Amsterdam,
for
example,
but
the
amount
of
effort
they
put
in
their
online
meetups
was
way
more
than
I
could
actually
have
time
for
the.
So
one
of
the
things
I
was
interested
in
is
what
things
have
you
found
to
actually
have
engagement
and
interactivity
in
an
online
Meetup.
C
Talk
a
little
about
this
I
think
we
are
still
working
out.
Our
quirks
we've
only
been
meeting
once
a
month
for
a
few
months
now.
So
one
thing
I
try
to
do
is
I
program,
these
very
specifically
to
have
one
person
doing
Hands-On
coding
and
one
person
doing
who
who
have
already
implemented
open
Telemetry
in
the
particular
language.
So
each
Meetup
is
people
who
are
interested
in
a
particular
language.
C
So
right
now
we're
mostly
focused
on
kubernetes
even.net,
because
that's
where
I've
had
people
come
out
and
say:
hey
we're,
implementing
open
Telemetry,
and
it's
almost
like
those
two
Meetup
tracks
are
a
separate
Community
within
the
Meetup,
so
I
think
being
very
specialized,
helps
I.
Think
not
offering
formal
talks
like
like
I
said:
it's
live
coding
with
space
for
people
to
interject
or
to
say:
hey,
actually,
I
don't
understand
this.
Can
you
back
up
as
well
as
sort
of
a
higher
level,
more
functional
discussion
that
captures
people?
C
What
I
would
like
to
work
on
is
having
sort
of
a
mandatory
discussion
segment
where
like
this,
where
people
pass
the
mic
around
and
discuss,
and
we
haven't
quite
gotten
there
yet
we're
still.
You
know
getting
there
with
the
rhythm
of
the
programming
and
with
expectations,
and
also
people
won't
stay
for
more
than
an
hour
on
an
online
Meetup.
D
D
What
I
found
out
for
my
team
was
before
during
the
pandemic
we
were
focusing
on
online,
but
as
soon
as
we
made
that
transition,
we
didn't
necessarily
do
a
good
job
about.
You
know
having
that
hybrid
model,
and
so
we
weren't
really
getting
a
good
turnout
when
it
came
to
in
person
and
what
I've
realized
is
that
our
pipeline
that
we
have
for
meetups?
D
A
Yeah
and
I've
been
running
an
online
user
group.
It's
somewhat
odd
because
kubernetes
a
few
years
ago,
when
they
split
the
cloud
provider
plugins
out
of
tree,
put
in
place
a
provision
where
each
cloud
provider
could
try
to
Charter
a
user
group,
and
they
thought
that
every
cloud
provider
Amazon
Google,
would
compose
one
and
run
one
and,
as
it
turned
out,
only
the
one
I
run,
which
is
running
kubernetes
on
vsphere,
got
chartered
and
went
into
operation.
A
It
was
okay
pre-prandemic,
you
know
I
think
at
the
peak.
Maybe
we
had
a
meeting
with
45
people
showing
up
but
interestingly
enough
during
the
pandemic,
attendance
actually
dropped
and
I
and
I
talk
to
people
and
I
think
it
was
just.
This
phenomenon
called
Zoom
burnout
where
people
were
spending
eight
hours
of
their
work
day
on
Zoom
with
their
colleagues,
depending
on
where
you
work,
and
the
last
thing
they
want
is
one
more
zoom
meeting.
A
It
just
felt
painful
rather
than
you
know
something
that
duplicated
that
experience
of
close
discussions
and
an
interesting
aspect
of
that
is
that
this
same
group
that
has
been
operating
on
Zoom.
We
we
held
a
physical
meeting
at
kubecon
in
Europe
and
obviously
not
all
the
membership
is
even
in
Europe,
but
more
people
showed
up
to
that
physically.
At
just
an
informal
meeting,
we
had
in
a
restaurant
than
we'd
been
getting
at
the
zoom
meeting,
so
I
think
they're.
C
Right
I'm
experiencing
both
those
things
as
well.
Lots
of
people
showed
up
to
the
meeting
here
at
kubecon
people
we
never
met,
never
were
involved
in
the
open,
Telemetry
Community
and
you
know
we're
having
besides
the
meetups,
we're
having
opened
an
open
discussion
time
in,
like
we'll
have
them
meet
with
the
program
meet
up
on
the
first
week
in
the
open
discussion
on
the
third
week,
and
very
few
people
are
showing
up
to
open
discussion,
I
feel
like
people
maybe
to
be
convinced
to
attend
one
more
zoom
event.
C
E
In
my
experience
with
in-person
meetups
is
that
if
I
didn't
have
a
primary
topic
for
the
Meetup,
that
turnout
would
be
non-existent.
The
so
one
of
the
like
I
said
one
of
the
the
other
problems.
The
other
reason
why
I
think
we
lost
the
online
Meetup
audience
at
least
in
Portland,
was
you
know
both
for
kubernetes
and
for
the
devops
Meetup?
E
Where
there's
a
lot
of
crossover
between
the
super
eagle
and
meetups,
the
one
of
the
main
reasons
for
people
attending
was
for
hiring
right
is
either
people
were
looking
for
jobs
or
people
were
looking
to
hire
other
people.
It
was
a
big
part
like
every
Meetup.
We
would
start
out
with
hiring
announcements
and
that
didn't
really
port
to
the
online
format
like
actually
tried
to
get
employers
to
participate,
and
that
and
it
just
really
did
not
work
and
I.
Think
without.
A
I
totally
agree
on
that
hiring
aspect,
because
in
LA
more
times
than
not,
the
host
of
The
Venue
was
in
a
position
where
they
were
trying
to
hire,
so
they
put
up
recruiting
tables.
At
that
event,
they
weren't
necessarily
an
I.T
vendor
at
all.
They
just
wanted
to
use
the
Meetup
as
an
opportunity
to
do
hiring
and
there's
some
of
that.
A
I'll,
throw
out
a
few
things
because
I
talked
to
people.
I
was
trying
to
recruit
people
to
this
session
downstairs,
and
some
of
them
gave
me
some
ideas,
but
were
unable
to
be
here
so
Lisa
nampy
at
cockroach
Labs
told
me
that
she
had
successfully
put
on
an
online
Meetup
recently
in
San,
Francisco
and
managed
it
was.
It
was
only
because
she
got
some
company
willing
to
take
on
the
covid
related
obligations.
A
I
also
heard
from
somebody
who
had
a
return
to
physical
meeting
in
Amsterdam
and
they
weren't
sure
what
to
expect
declared
it
and
450
people
showed
up,
and
it
was
so
big
that
they
couldn't
possibly
fit
them
and
they
just
took
over
every
bar
and
restaurant
within
a
four
block
vicinity,
but
people
just
kind
of
missed
that
social
interaction.
So
maybe
we
can
aspire
to
sort
of
the
world
coming
back.
If
we
just
wait
it
out,
let
me
go
back.
D
I
was
going
to
say
even
with
us
like
waiting
to
like
and
hoping
that
the
world
will
return
to
normal
and
that
people
would
get
that
comfortability
again.
How
do
we
measure
success
now?
You
know,
like
I,
think
that's
one
of
the
things
that
I
sort
of
think
about,
because
it's
already
a
little
yeah.
It's
already
a
little
shaky
to
try
and
measure
that
success,
but
then
you
know
yeah
how?
How
would
we?
How
do
we
get
to
that
point?
Even
now,.
A
Yet
some
of
these
Zoom
ones
that
are
operating
tend
to
be
more
focused
on
use
case
niches,
such
as
machine
learning
or
I,
actually
have
a
zoom
on
iot,
Edge
I
know
there
are
some
on
Telecom
on
Financial
on
retail,
and
a
few
of
us
here
represent
particular
projects
or
products
and
I'm
wondering
if
what
people's
thoughts
are
on
the
best
way
to
do
these.
Both
you
know,
maybe
it
would
be
best.
The
physicals
were
wide
open
because
you
could
recruit
speakers
on
a
broad
swath
of
topics.
E
Well,
if
this
actually
goes
into
I'm
gonna
actually
address
two
questions
at
once,
because
he
asked
this
question
about
measuring
success,
and
so
one
of
my
difficulties
with
a
lot
of
stuff
like
the
online
meetups
and
that
sort
of
thing
is
that
part
of
my
goal
in
creating
a
Meetup
is
to
actually
create
a
community
yeah
to
actually
create
a
community
of
people
who
you
know
regularly
dial
into
the
Meetup
or
regularly
attend
the
physical
Meetup.
You
know
you
know,
welcome
newcomers
have
some
of
their.
E
You
know
stuff
that
they
own
that
they
do
interact
with
each
other.
You
know
in
some
social
fashion,
Etc-
and
you
know
this
is
one
of
the
reasons
why
a
lot
of
these
pursuing
sort
of
worldwide
meetups,
you
know
basically
topical
meetups
right.
So
you
pick
a
topic
and
you're,
not
particularly
geographically
attached,
hasn't
been
that
appealing,
because
I
haven't
seen
a
way
to
sort
of
build
that
kind
of
community
identity.
C
Yeah
we
have
tried
to
build
up
a
slack
Channel
around
the
meetups
and
it's
it's
hard
like.
We
have
to
do
a
lot
of
cultivating
of
that
channel
and
like
trying
like,
oh
yeah,
here's
the
question
for
this
week
trying
to
bring
you
together
like
a
lot
of
basic
grooming
and
I.
Don't
know
honestly
in
the
end,
how
strong
the
urge
for
all
of
those
folks
to
connect
is
I
think
that
is
why
we're
trying
to
narrow
the
use
case
for
the
online
ones
for
the
offline
ones.
C
To
be
perfectly
honest,
I
know
that
before
the
pandemic,
there
were
Cloud
native
meetups
in
particular.
Cities
and
I
would
really
love
to
team
up
with
a
group
that
is
doing
a
cloud
native
Meetup
in
a
few
large
cities,
preferably
ones
where
we
already
have
the
presence
of
a
developer,
Advocate
or
a
company.
That's
really
involved
in
open,
Telemetry
and
say:
hey
we'd
like
to
provide
quarterly
meetups
for
you
on
this
topic
or
whatever,
and
not
try
to
run
my
own
Meetup
exclusively
on
open
Telemetry,
because
I
just
think.
C
F
F
If
there
were
other
kind
of
Niche
topics,
I
wouldn't
show
up
every
week,
but
I
would
pick
and
choose
the
ones
that
were
interesting
to
me
and
instead
of
having
that
balance
of
Broad
like
over
the
the
span
of
the
community,
it's
kind
of
broad,
but
on
any
given
week,
you
bring
together
people
to
talk
about
a
specific
topic.
I
think
that
helps
with
sort
of
what
Josh
was
saying
about.
F
Community,
like
you,
see,
sort
of
the
same
people
coming
and
it
may
not
be
the
same
people
every
single
week,
but
you
get
different
subsets
of
the
people
each
week
to
have
like
a
focused
conversation
about
something,
and
you
know
it
for
me-
that's
more
interesting
than
just
kind
of
like
General
like
oh,
let's
get
together
and
talk
about
Cloud
native,
like
it.
It's
that's
too
vague
to
get
excited.
A
Yeah
one
thing
this:
this
was
Lisa's
idea
too.
She
dropped
this
Easter
egg
on
me
when
she
couldn't
be
here,
but
she
said
to
make
sure
to
mine
people
running
local
meetup
groups
that
there's
a
big
payoff
in
cross-promoting
if
you're
in
a
big
area
that
is
running
meetups
on
Specialized
topics
as
well
as
general,
nobody
ever
turns
down
in
her
experience
or
mine,
the
opportunity
to
send
out
the
meeting
notice
to
their
mailing
list,
and
it's
just
like
your
situation,
where
you
might
subscribe
to
only
one
meetup
group,
but
not
even
be
aware.
A
A
F
F
The
same
thing
happened
and
and
again
it
sort
of
like
helps
to
kind
of
reinvigorate
the
community
and
so
getting
back
to
this
topic.
Having
cncf
or
a
specific
projects
help
to
to
bring
notable
people
that
everybody
wants
to
hear
from
to
some
of
these
larger.
You
know
Geographic
areas
instead
of
have
a
a
special
guest
at
a
Meetup
to
very
good
in-person
talk
about
a
book.
They
wrote
or
a
podcast.
They
run
or
some
sort
of
community
they're
involved
in
I.
C
C
Yeah,
this
has
been
tricky
I
feel
like.
We
do
have
a
lot
of
support
within
our
project,
because
we
are
the
only
Meet
Up
group
happening
for
the
project
and
I'm
working
on
it
with
two
or
three
people.
So
while
it
can
be
stressful,
like
no
sense
of
burnout
at
the
same
time,
we
don't-
and
this
is
a
project-wide
problem
and
not
a
problem
specific
to
open
Telemetry
meetups.
C
We
don't
understand
what
resources
are
there
from
the
cncf
and
how
to
access
them,
and
my
efforts
to
try
to
reach
out
have
gone
completely
nowhere,
either
through
service
desk
or
through
going
into
different
slack
channels
for
meetup,
organizing
the
thing
hey.
If
anyone
interested
in
teaming
up
we've
got
this
great
virtual
Meetup
and
content
available
and
I
see,
some
of
you
are
having
virtual
meetups
but
I.
A
F
E
There
was
some
money,
but
that
was
really
focused
on
in-person
meetups
and
they
haven't
figured
out.
You
know
how
that
relates
to
other
kinds,
the
so,
but
that
has
nothing
to
do
with
doing
cross-pollination
right.
That's
people
and
I
think
part
of
the
reason
why
you're
getting
crickets
actually
is
that
so
many
of
the
Meetup
organizers
currently
are
still.
You
know.
My
in-person
Meetup
is
still
on
Hiatus.
So
thank.
A
You
Josh
I
hate
to
put
you
on
the
spot,
but
I'll
do
it
anyway,
so
maybe
I
don't
hate
it
so
much,
but
I
know
that
you're
one
of
the
organizers
of
the
scale
conference
and
it
got
aligned
with
you,
know
some
sort
of
kubernetes.
What
do
they
call
it
Community
days
or
something
it
isn't
a
meet-up
per
se,
but
it
is
a
physical
conference.
Can
you
maybe
tell
us
a
little
bit
about
what's
involved
that.
E
It
makes
sense
to
link
that
up,
but
we're
having
the
weird
thing
right
now
right
is
obviously
the
LA
Meetup
has
been
on
Hiatus
for
for,
however
long
and
so
also
one
of
the
other
problems
that
we
had
with
the
cncf
the
meetups
went
through
is
covet
hit
right
when
we
were
moving
off
of
meetup.com
and
onto
bevy,
because
meetup.com
had
been
bought
by
the
workspace
company
and
and
had
always
honestly
been
mismanaged,
but
the
mismanagement
had
gotten
much
worse.
The
so.
F
E
B
E
When
we
have
kcdla
part
of
it
should
be
talking
about
hey.
So
for
those
of
you
who
are
local,
let's
talk
about
the
Meetup,
the
and,
and
that
could
work
for
regional
meetups.
It
could
also
work
for
topical
meetups,
because
there
are
topical
events
right
like,
for
example,
we
had
a
bunch
of
colos
here
how
much
promotion
of
topical
meetups
was
there
at
any
of
those
colos.
C
Yeah
I
can't
answer
this,
we're
still
relatively
small.
We
have
been
targeting
doing
the
main
live
Meetup
in
a
Time
convenient
for
most
U.S
and
EU
people.
It
falls
at
six
o'clock.
Eu
10
a.m.
Pacific
you
know
1pm
East,
Coast,
that
whole
time
zone
we
are
currently
working
with
Meetup,
both
in
with
hosts
in
Europe
and
Australia,
who
are
hosting
the
unfacilitate,
the
the
like
unprogrammed
conversations.
C
So
there's
three
of
those
which
is
one
reason
our
attendance
is
low
frankly,
because
we're
exploding
the
audience
across
three
and
the
hope
is
to
get
the
programmed
Meetup
online
for
with
those
hosts,
so
they
so
people
can
re-watch
the
programming,
but
not-
and
it's
just
we
don't
have
enough
organizers
to
have
programmed
meetups
in
three
different
time
zones.
So
that's
how
we're
approaching
it
at
the
moment.
C
In
the
past,
when
I've
worked
at
Mozilla
and
some
other
places,
I
have
had
to
deal
with
sort
of
figuring
out
how
to
work
cross-culturally,
for
example,
there,
the
Indian
Community
is
really
like
a
lot
of
contributors
to
Mozilla
live
in
India,
and
so
it's
been
a
process
of
like
enabling
people
differently,
based
on
where
they're,
based
and
doing
a
lot
of
listening.
And
ideally,
you
have
an
employee
of
your
company
who
is
aware
of
the
culture
and
can
help
you
with
some
connections
and
introductions.
A
A
We
only
tried
two,
not
three,
let
that
you
alluded
to,
but
it
turned
out
to
be
somewhat
of
a
problem,
because
people
couldn't
remember,
we
declared
that
every
two
weeks
we'd
flip
and
we
had
one
that
was
geared
towards
North
America,
one
for
Asia,
China
and
polar
opposite
times
really,
but
people
ended
up
showing
up
on
the
zoom.
If
you
own
the
zoom
group
ownership
credentials,
you'd
see
these
things
like
three
people's
joined,
the
zoom
and
they're
at
the
wrong
time
zone.
A
One
and
I
always
thought
it
was
perfectly
well
marked,
but
it
becomes
an
issue
trying
to
do
the
logistics.
Then
speakers
see
that
you
have
two
slots.
Sometimes
a
speaker
would
show
up
at
the
wrong
time
or
the
speakers
when
they
saw
two
were
available.
You
had
time
a
tough
time
getting
fills
in
the
off
one.
A
Many
of
them
are
working
at
a
place
that
have
recurring
meetings,
so
it
dropped
into
that
particular
slot
on
the
calendar
for
them,
and
they
can
defend
that
if
they're
interested
in
the
topic,
but
if
it
moves
around
it's
much
tougher
to
remember
and
join,
and
it's
much
tougher
to
not
have
conflicts
come
in
in
your
workspace
if
it
varies
from
one
cycle
to
the
other.
Now.
A
Theoretically,
if
you
go
look
at
the
charter
details
that
are
in
the
kubernetes
project
too,
you
are
not
supposed
to
unilaterally
declare
one
as
say
the
group
chair
or
lead
you're
supposed
to
put
it
out
to
a
membership
vote.
Now,
when
you
pick
a
new
time,
that's
tough,
because
maybe
only
the
people
who
find
the
current
time
convenient
are
there
to
vote.
A
So
I've
always
put
the
voting
out
on
the
slack
Channel,
where
it's
a
little
more
asynchronous,
but
you
know
actually
having
group
membership
pick
the
time
and
the
day
is
probably
a
really
good
idea.
But
it's
going
to
be
a
compromise.
So
maybe
you
do
that.
You
know
some
of
those
online
polls.
Let
you
have
rankings
and
things
that
maybe
you
can
allow
you
for
a
compromise
of
people
who
have
a
second
third
and
First
Choice.