Cloud Native Computing Foundation Network Service Mesh, 14 Jan 2020

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From YouTube: Network Service Mesh Meeting 2020-01-14

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Network Service Mesh Meeting 2020-01-14

A

Good morning, all usually we go meet, love about five minutes for everyone to turn up. I do want to go ahead and remind everyone that our meetings are recorded from the time that they start so you are currently being recorded. This will be posted to YouTube if everyone could also please go to the meeting minutes and add themselves to the attendee list. That's actually super super helpful to us and we'll get going here in a few minutes. Thank you.

B

B

Also, please add any topic that you want to discuss. I see that my co is here. He gets something to share with us, so we thought you know topics at the bottom of that.

A

Is absolutely fantastic and please do add your stuff to the agenda. We we actually run fairly freewheeling meetings. I, think some of our very best of meetings have started with an empty agenda and become amazing, so awesome.

C

So yeah it turns out that genderless doesn't mean there's no agenda. This may be Stan sheet1 on the quad.

A

What's the old, but my favorite definition of serverless is that traditionally you would provision resources and then accept, requests and insert her list. You accept requests and then provision resources. So agenda list does not mean that you don't have items in your meeting. It means you start your meeting and then you figure out where you're going so.

A

Our our meeting minutes are world writable for a reason, primarily so that you know everybody can contribute, also feel free to take notes there as well and how good what happens in the meeting also good. This.

C

C

Okay, let's I'm going to show you the identities.

C

C

C

You I will give it a couple more minutes and then we will get started.

C

A

Sorry good going.

C

Yeah, let's do it so welcome to the next network service mesh meeting. So we have this call which occurs every week. We also have a user friendly call which occurs every other week at there was a 10:00 a.m. Pacific. Sorry, no 10:00 a.m. CET on devaron, opposite ik. We, the next one, will be on January 21st. We also participate in the CN CF Telecom user group, which occurs every first Monday at 8:00 a.m. Pacific and every third Monday at 3:00 a.m. Pacific, and we also are participating in the CN CF networking working group.

C

The next call will be on Thursday January 16th. That means every two weeks at 11 a.m.

C

we have a fewer listing up the first major, the next major one is cute con and the time they decline in Europe, which is going to be at the REI and am strap. The CFPs have been closed for a while we're just waiting for the schedule to be announced.

C

The schedule should be announced the day after our next Asia meeting on January January 22nd, which should be a Wednesday. We have a set of see if keys, which have been added to a spreadsheet. So if you had added, if you have added something that is related or of interest to telecom networking, then or to see it as please add it to the spreadsheet, we are also going to have any NSF con @q con tu, which will be in a larger room.

C

We now have an event page we have opened, or rather we are going to open a CFPs which will On, February, 21st and and I, don't think I've created a form for that yet have I, so I'll get started there.

A

Is a form I created a form in fairness, I copied your previous form and edited it for the new information so to create it a little bit much but but I I caused there to be a form in existence.

C

Do we is how we opened the CFP for that, because there's no CFP open mate there.

A

Is dumb if you look in the events overview, there's a CFP link, and that is.

C

Okay, cool so feel free to start sending things now. It is open until February 21st, which gives you time to work out what you want to do. If, if your talk, if you submitted one to Q Khan does not get accepted, there is a there is an opportunity to submit it into your and the term Khan as well and still get it heard by the smaller bit more highly targeted community.

C

A

Also have sponsorship opportunities available, so we were very pleased. There was good response to the sponsors last time. So if you work for a company that would like to sponsor Anna Sun Khan, we've got a variety of different levels and ways in which sponsors you can be achieved.

C

Yeah so feel free to have we loaded the prospectus up yet yep, it's behind the become a sponsor button. Perfect, so prospectus is being is behind the become a sponsor. So please please consider please that sort of consider or sponsoring it. So it's relatively it's relatively low in price for the value that you get if you're heavily interested in the space.

C

C

You know why my Google Docs never loaded. So can you switch back to the agenda.

C

Yep go. Thank you yeah I'm, getting the endless loading screen on Google Docs. Oh.

C

Great, so we also have open networking and edge summit which see if pees I believe we're now open and they closed on February 3rd. So please feel free to submit to oh and yes in Los Angeles and that will that will be on April 20th through 21st we have. We are. We have a couple new announcements, and so the the first major announcements is we're creating a NSM, PR and issue review meeting which is going to occur right before this particular meeting starting next week.

C

We will get a calendar with a calendar event up pretty soon on this, and so we kept this short on purpose because we don't want this to know if evolve or devolve is the right word, but we don't want it to convert into a to a architecture meeting. This is purely for. Let's go over the issues. Let's make sure things are tracking. Let's make sure we unlock people who are currently blocked, so that'll occur at 7:30 every day, right before the same yeah. So.

A

It's an excellent meeting to sort of see exactly what's going on on the ground and particularly if you want to get involved, that's gonna be an excellent meeting. We want to make sure that was happening publicly for folks, and my guess is if we hit an architecture question and that discussion will simply punt it up to this community meeting to resolve and.

C

If you're looking for something easy to get involved, that's this is the place to ask how do I get involved? What's what's the right first issue for me and we'll we can get that conversation started here, we finally also have been. We also received the cue convert, America 2019 report, and we also noticed that the MSM has had very strong interest higher than any other and SM trial, another any other sidelocks project and so I think already higher than all the other incubating as well.

A

I know what kind of middle up high compared to the other incubating projects, but the fact that we're in the jet same general range as some projects that are like extremely well established, is kind of telling. So like the open tracing guys came in 1800, we came in at 1500, which is certainly not bad right. Yeah we came in at 1500, see and I came in at 1700, so we're right up there with a whole bunch of those things.

A

Obviously we're not in the same range as a kubernetes, er Prometheus at 9k or 5k, but we're you know given given the the age of the project and where we stand, we're kicking ass and.

C

The topic is well I mean people usually think of networking. As like this boring thing.

A

But once it's up to you in real and what was the unofficial slogan network service, matchmaking networking sexy again.

C

I usually think networking is the thing you don't care about until it breaks cool.

A

Do we want to build the asari avi item down to the the nons with training wheels per the agenda yeah.

D

Yeah mixed in somewhere I was just trying to get that on here.

A

Better to capture they don't have to capture dude, so please thank you for getting it there at all. It's easy to move things around in the agenda. It's hard to magically know that there are agenda items that we've missed yeah.

A

So I'll go ahead and stick it down on the sort of substantive part of the agenda and we can figure out where we want to put that order. Wise.

C

Cool okay, we can scroll very slightly and then I will do my best to cover you Cena stuff, so social media, community team, Twitter steps. We have seven additional follow followers and we are following an additional 37. We have added eight tweets for a total of nine hundred and twenty four, so we will be approaching a thousand pretty soon and we have posted four main things: the cnc of significant telecom, so yeah topics of interest were sans the IPSec network. That's actually something we should mention the about before or soon as well.

C

We have 28 20 telecom predictions, I, love, 2020 events, lineup, and they see, if you like, four four ons the cig, so the C&C of Syd Network a little bit of background, the CN CF is going to.

C

Is there they're reorganizing the way they do their their talk, a little bit for sandbox projects, and so when sandbox, when it perspective, sandbox projects? What's doing?

C

Usually they will give a talk at the talk and the the line for this is growing absurdly long, and so in order to speed things up and in order to get better I guess visibility and in tracking into what's going on the their apps they're, going to start asking these things to start doing some of the some of the vetting and some of the recommendations towards this, and so the CN CF networking sig has been we rely revived and what's going to happen, is things related towards service smash that working and proxying etc are all going to start their start their path in those things, so one of the things that will be good is to make sure that we get some level of representation there, and also some some diversity and Matt's face as well, so I'm definitely going to participate in that particular path.

C

I'm also going to seek people from from the avila community and some of the service match communities and so on to see if I can go in. So we can help with that particular help with that particular process. But part of that is also going to be. We also want to hold when talks on a regular basis that on interesting topics, so so the enrollment doesn't have to be hey. You show up every every two weeks. The involvement should also just be brief.

A

Put a few fusion on the item we had about that in our meeting minutes. Instead it meets every Tuesday at 11 a.m. and it says next call Thursday January, 16th.

C

Good catch, let's double check the time schedule because there it turns out. There is an older single networking group. There was starting terrible years ago and we're still chasing down yeah, so I think there's a right. One I believe now that I'm thinking about it in my in my memory, rather than relying on words I, believe it's the same time slot as a.cian as the current Nettie's networking thing, but on the days where they don't run, kubernetes them replacing. Okay,.

A

Yeah so there's a different page, I'll fix the links that we have on the end, the thing because there's the link that we have is to the old CN CF networking working group.

A

We probably want to change that to the sink yeah.

C

Good catch so just double check the time, but yeah it's definitely it's definitely Thursday. It's it's urn the afternoon Pacific time and so we'll check the exact exact time for that. If I.

E

C

To too long after that, but that's that's something of interest that is with yourself.

C

With that, finally, on the social media, community team, we're going to have we're going to have the prospectus and sponsored lineup and it's on I send out and once we get to go ahead on the contributor, podcast and- and we may be the ones blocking and because I think he's just waiting for approval from us. If we haven't given it yet that will go out soon.

A

Okay, oh I! Definitely don't want to be. Definitely don't want to be blocking that.

C

Yeah, the only reason I can think to to ask them to hold off would be if we want to get it right over a few qualms. You.

A

Know the only thing I need to check is that they properly CC my PR minders who'd be very upset there. They literally don't care at all as long as they know, and then once they as long as they, but if they don't know they get very upset. So.

A

Yeah no surprises no surprises.

C

So we do with that, let's jump into the main agenda. We have breaking contest to separate grief. Oh and do you want to drive this part of the agenda? I think.

A

It's more Andre under you, wanna talk about it.

E

Sorry about the quadtest yeah, we have a separate area for a crowd test. We have already circus I, pass it for it yeah. It has just initial documentation, you'll be updated in next few days and we have a pull request at those two visual network service mesh to use with separate cloud tests from busy papers.

A

Ready I think I've burst that now. Oh okay,.

E

It's nice, so we switch it to use separatist, repo and.

A

This temperature will be yeah.

E

Good next steps will be to add more examples, so we stole you'll be more widely, could be more widely use. It.

E

C

Awesome my my recommendation is once this is more user-friendly that we spend a little bit a little bit of time on this specific topic, so that other people know not only what it is, but how do how to properly use it.

E

Yep yeah it's my next steps to my could user-friendly regarding with the plantation and just initial steps for anyone.

A

For those of you who are newer to the community, when we were trying to do testing in our CI across all the many clouds, we discovered it that's hard and it was annoyingly hard and so clogged test. Was this sort of make it easier because it turns out that you had all kinds of weird things like the burying time it takes your clusters to start and scheduling tests across clusters and a whole bunch of other things.

A

So you know that got built in the network service mess repo and then a bunch of people sort of looked at it and said that's really. Eat could be used that and that's part of why we're breaking it out.

C

Yeah when we say that we we run six clusters per per cloud, very every single tiara test. This is the dragon clean. So.

C

Okay, so we have some information on the rough cut on the further to the cross-connect and pathless is like healing so.

C

This looks like it's your handiwork, so.

A

C

A

Work, we talked through all this stuff before the break, which is we realized, we could simplify things a great deal if a foreigner is stop copying their own api and just became essentially a particular kind of network service. In point it actually simplified a ton of stuff, not just the api.

A

I mean a whole bunch of interesting things possible and there's a lot to be said for discovering that if you make your system simpler and more maintainable that it's also more powerful, and so there was a general fundus towards that notion and when we looked at that, we realized that we'd have to rethink how we were doing our healing stuff.

A

So we looked at how to revamp the healing stuff with the path concept and it turned out that that need healing, phenomenally, simpler and more comprehensible, as in the current ruffcut code for healing is less than 150 lines of code. It is generally reusable, so this was also kind of an awesome realization, and so we talked about this a couple times before the break people were generally friendly and so over.

A

The break I hacked a bit on this and sort of the result of that hacking is in PR, 20, 50 and there's entirely too much there.

A

It needs to be pulled into smaller pieces, but you have to get to a certain point before you figure out like what all you know, what all you're actually doing so I pulled that out and and I put that up, so that everyone could take a look at sort of where, what's there, the kind of style with which it's going, among other things, it'll make the existing code enormous Lemoore unit, testable because all the individual pieces will be unit testable because, essentially you end up building servers out of chains of things and yes, I know about the conflicts they'll be fixed, and so in looking at that and sort of talking about this with some folks, one of things that occurred to us is one way to make this more accessible in general.

A

To folks, we've been talking for a long time about pulling pieces out of the network service miss repo into their own repo, because, while the network service, miss repo from a line of code, point of view is still relatively small from a thematic point of view, it's gotten kind of a little bit bloated, and so the sort of suggestion here was to essentially start with the new code that we're doing here and start an SDK repo and start an SDK VP agent. Repo and the reason those are two separate repos is VPP.

A

Agent is a particular four-door platform that you can use with network service mesh and, while, like I happen to personally, think it's an awesome choice. You don't want to make your general SDK stuff pullin dependencies from one particular platform among many, because we already have things like the kernel forwarder, that that is a different border implementation.

A

We've got people looking at others, and so you want to keep the sort of platform specific stuff platform specific and so that the general proposal is to start breaking the new code out into separate repos, where you can go in bit by bit and a little bit faster and start with the SDK. An SDK BBB agent, repos.

A

Do people have thoughts questions we wanted to sort of talk through this a little bit before we pull the trigger and start moving code in that direction.

B

Yeah, we already shared, told you it is about. Maybe it's worth discussing this here.

B

So yes, I do agree that maybe there are bits that you wouldn't want to put in. Just for the sake of using our SDK I mean like we, we can see here that we paid rent is is here, maybe maybe some other things are coming along with.

B

Still, at least for me, currently it's a more raised.

B

Integral part, so do you think there is a way that we can still keep an SDK in a single repo, but then, if holy seller subfolders has separate packages so that you I.

A

Mean we absolutely could like one option would be we could we could in fact do multi module repos, but I think we've discovered that while it's awesome you could do multi mantra repos. It certainly beats.

B

A

Of having a single you know single module set of dependencies for something as big as the network surface mesh repos gotten because have challenges so, for example, there's a whole bunch of replace incantations right now that we that, if you want to use our SDK, you have to use to get to work correctly, because it's living in a multi module, repo yeah, and so it's all trade-offs.

A

Quite honestly, and the you know, sort of my general sentiment is, however, we do it I think we can all agree that we would like the sort of platform neutral pieces to be in a different, go module from the platform specific pieces and it comes to SDKs. Does that make sense to everybody.

A

Is that something we all agree on? I didn't mean to presume.

C

A

Yeah and then that's related to, but not strictly the same question as whether we want the platform neutral and the platform specific pieces in different repos.

B

Then, of course, we should be aware of the other charges that, because everything has ups and downs, so, oh absolutely multiple ripples is challenging on the side of you know having multiple PRS merged at the same time. Otherwise you end up with you know, broken.

B

Software in general, right.

A

Right I mean the place that this goes. Sideways is if the repos have crossed have bilateral cross dependencies between each other, because the the nice thing about go is because you can pin go to particular points on another repo when you're specify your dependency. If, for example, SDK SDK BBB agent depends on SDK, but SDK never depends on SDK DDP agent, which I think is the desirable behavior. Then, if you make changes in SDK and changes in SDK BBB agent, then the changes go into SDK.

A

First, the may go in SDK PvP agent, then the dependencies that are depending on both of them can update the the points on the tree together and we should be. It should be relatively smooth, as such things go. Does that make sense.

B

A

And come to think of it. Go, does not permit I, don't think they'll permit circular module dependency yeah. So literally we can't hurt ourselves. We can't hurt ourselves in the worst way here. It doesn't mean we can't hurt ourselves, but the worst errors are precluded.

A

B

um Let's go okay.

A

So I'll start breaking pieces off of the work that I've done and dropping them in in this PRS for the SDK repo.

A

The other nice thing about it is I literally have had some folks turn up and say things like I'm looking for starter work, or we even had someone who turned up who said I program in these other languages and I'd have but I don't know, go and I'm looking for starter work and because the stuff that we're doing here in the SDK is is so small and self-contained things like how about you go build the unit testing for this module is a very small chunk of work and very instructive.

A

If you're a newer to the newer to network service match or a new order to go.

A

B

A

So I think I think we've sorted that out: um I'm sorry avi who brought this up, because this is awesome.

D

That was me: who's, Ryan, I, don't see, presume ik. I. Think he's been doing a lot of work on this, so my question is really I. Can help move this along I hope you have the right folks here to give me some pointers. I know, ci has kind of been an open question. I know: there's a couple PRS out there probably be useful if we were able to actually pull down the code and run it yep.

D

So hang on it a little bit so out of all those things. Does anyone know where we're at with this, and this.

A

Yeah, so I can tell you what's in my brain about this, which doesn't make it real, but it does make it what's bouncing around in my head right, um which is that you remember how we talked about about the four der to cross connect network service transition where, instead of having something that speaks to cross connect API, you just have a network service that speaks the same network service, API, that's finding the border stuff, yep so effectively in that world.

A

You would want to take the work.

A

That's been done for sr iove and transition from using the cross-connect api to using the network service api um and, if you'd like what I can actually do with that is we can start by I can point you to how the forwarder is coming together right now for the existing agent for Durr, which hopefully will give you a pretty good notion of kind of what that's looking like, um and then you can tell me if that looks saying to you and we can talk through a bit like what you think needs to happen to transition the good work that semuc did in that direction.

A

Does that make sense sure.

D

Yeah, and is he does anyone know if he's still working on these cars that are outstanding or what I I guess I, don't know who's working on what then, okay, usually my.

A

D

A

With zelich has been, he seems to be closer to the embedded, guys I, don't know if you've ever worked with embedding for people, they tend to be kind of quiet um and introverted, and- and so you may just want to pay him on slack, okay, right and and say, hey, and you know you feel free to ping him on the sly, for you direct message or you know, pulling him in to the NSF double or whatever, because I think what you're basically saying is. This has to be really excited. How do I help?

A

Is that more or less your message.

D

Exactly this is something I'd like to see kind of come to be a thing. Oh yeah.

A

Lots of people are super excited about this.

C

There was, there was one unfortunate timing issue, which was we had a refactoring of so in it we mention about the refactoring of the date of the forwarding elements of the the API. So we worked out that we can change these things and to enter network service. So you don't ask specifically for like.

B

C

We think you you can get them chained in as part as a as a service themselves, and so the hardware is not represented as a as a network service once these patches immersion- and so this this simplifies things a lot down the down the chain, because the previous chain was quite complex and then we had to work out. How do we select, which one do we want to run and a whole range of other issues and the many of those issues go away?

C

So the absolutely fantastic like once once those patches land with the dead was talking about earlier to make sure that this stuff gets transition nicely towards towards that. So, if you want to be helpful to him, I would I would recommend offering help along along those lines. If you have a cycle to yourself, okay,.

F

I wanted to add that I have reached to przemek I think before the holidays about this dog that were preparing will.

B

Be preparing of.

F

Course, if acceptance for cube cone, so I can say that he is pretty responsive and he's open to any feedback, and it's yeah.

A

F

A

Absolutely fantastic in terms of responsiveness: um it's just- and this has been my experience. Engineers differ in their propensity to attend meetings and he seems does not seem to be an eating guy. So if you sort look around the meeting and say where is the neck, it's not surprising to me he's still pretty responsible, yeah.

D

That's fine I, I'm I guess she sounds like just need to reach out to him.

A

So that's the big thing and since it would rather slow because I think rawness love is also working on this as well. Yeah.

F

Exactly I was going to mention that I'm trying to prepare the environment on my side, so I could buy and evaluate his PR, and so on I'll be more than yeah. It will be more on Nelson to join this so.

C

One other area you can help out as well is this stuff will eventually need to land in our CI and ensure that it works in testing. So if you have any operational experience with SR Iovine, helping us with CI on that in order to set that up and make sure it runs, would also be really helpful and we have. We have credits through packets, con net, which has connect expelling from for coming from Mellanox and also has an intel srl the enabled chips.

C

So we can make sure that we land the right instance type of if that's something you're interested in helping with I.

A

Mean yeah, it's also true I know you minutes front mention brought a stock you're trying to get in an environment going I mean one of the simpler things we might do is just arrange for you and Ryan to have access to a couple of packet boxes that you could play with. That would have it.

D

Available that.

A

Would be awesome for.

D

Me III have access to a lot of Intel hardware that I've been playing with for other things, but I am having a hard time hip, checking people that have access to the Mellanox Hardware out of the way. So.

A

It means oh I'm sure we can arrange for that, for you in faretta Slav. Does that something to help you as well wanna slot yeah.

F

A

Okay, normal normal courtesy applies. You know, try and pick the smallest box that meets your needs. You know try and be in a position to turn the box off when you're, not using it that kind of stuff, because it's just courteous this is all stuff generously donated by pocket. We don't want to burn their resources unnecessarily, but we also do want to put them to good use and what you guys are doing is definitely stuff. That would be good for them and good for everyone else. So if.

C

You can send me your email addresses that you would like to use for your packet net account, send them my way and I'll make sure that the that you gain access to the project. Yeah easiest way to get ahold of mr. slack and.

F

If we do it in in pocket I guess it will be helpful for the CI as well, because it will already be there yeah.

A

That's exactly that's exactly the thought right. Mom is doing it pocket, especially since, like one of the pieces you're going to want to do, is you know we're not just plumbing a random sre, oh the interface into pod. Yes, we do that, but we're not just doing that network service mesh also can let you have some sort of network service endpoint that will muck with your physical network to give you the service you want, and packet dotnet has a very simple API for there and the networking they presented their services.

A

That would let you do something like a sign of. You lay on kind of thing and connect VLANs to things, so you could even do like a toy network service endpoint of that sword against a packet, and that would not only be a great demo, but it also is really useful for the CNF Testament folks.

C

Yeah also Nicolai pointed out something interesting thing is McClane screen acquiring like Linux acquiring a Contessa, interesting news, yeah.

A

Hot off the press, it looks like a good thing as far as I can tell you know it's sort of the peanut butter and chocolate, two great companies that taste great about it together.

E

C

So the last part that we have or are we are we done with us earlier. Is there anything else we want to discuss on that I.

D

Think we touched on everything I wanted to touch on. Okay,.

C

Thank you very much. Let's move on to Michael there the innocent example with arbitrary Network topologies, so you have work I.

G

Think I see me.

B

Yeah yep cope I want to share your screen. I can drop.

G

The sharing just I can I can try and share yeah I'm on on a very dodgy internet connection. So again,.

B

G

Can show things for you if you guide me whatever so I guess by the way we can start from this so yeah, so it's nice to meet everyone. It's my co-host on this call so excited to be here.

B

G

You so I come from a very traditional kind of networking, background and kind of one of the things that we tend to do.

G

A lot is to to lab some of the designs that we about to implement in the physical network, and that usually involves like building some network topologies out of commercial devices and doing this, for a relatively small network is easy for a medium-sized, a large one is almost like, not impossible, but it's it's a it's a big task, and, and so quite some time ago, I came across this problem of like trying to simulate large-scale physical virtual network, topologies and I sort of started looking at communities and back in the day, I decided to go down the path of writing my own, so you and I plug in because back then the C&I did not properly support multiple interfaces, etc, etc.

G

So long story short I I presented this during the.

G

Open networking summit never and that's where I met Nicolai and somehow it's transpired that the work that the Nico I was presenting was almost like. It was yeah. It was so close to whatever I was supposed to present that it wasn't even funny so because I was they basically in their presentation. They presented half of my presentation, so I had to kind of repeat them: uh-huh, but anyway, the back.

G

Then in eco I said that let's cooperate and build something based on understand that I have some virtual metal device which could be in this particular case. In issues in this example, is quagga built inside a alpine container, but in real life it could be anything like all the big benders, cisco, juniper Arista.

G

They all have virtual devices that can run inside either a VM or a container, and the idea is we wrap them inside a container format and then somehow distribute them or use cuban add a scheduler to distribute them across multiple nodes and then the main point is to interconnecting them the same way. They would be connected in the real network and in this particular case I'm, using an SM and I'm just slightly abusing the all the concepts of intercepts so I'm kind of like the client and endpoint.

G

They almost lose their meaning in a way so that every link contains a client at an endpoint and it can be arbitrarily assigned to either end of the link. So I need to be any.

A

Daivari, but that's actually in some sense, fired unexpected and it's sort of, like you mentioned you're, a deep networking guy. Do you remember the Lisp guys when they realized that nobody cares about ingress, trembling, routers or egress tunneling router? Is this just XT ours, yeah, yeah, you've kind of cover out of that place? That's cool yeah.

G

Yeah so yeah so yeah. For me, the main point was to build those point point things doesn't matter how they built.

G

In this case we use kernel, kernel folder, which just connects the two types of link, the explained or fees link and, and the main idea is yet, though I have a certain topology that has a certain layout and I have some configuration that I want to apply to each one of those devices and then, at the end, result I want to get for full-blown topology that I can interact with troubleshoot debug try out new designs whatnot.

G

So this particular example just shows five five routes or routers connected like this, and they each one OSPF on all their links and they each have a unique look back and the testing that I do in the end is just try to pick from from router 5 try to ping every other router in the topology.

G

So yeah so I said about abusing NSA and it's a I'm not using the standard admission, webhook, basically ecstatically, injecting NSC as a sidecar, with all the correct labels that I need and the same side for NC, but at a high level. This is a new example, but then I. What I also did is I a couple years ago, when I first did it with my own saying, I plug you know: I've written a kind of a high low, high level, topology Orchestrator that it's basically a Orchestrator is a very good word for it.

G

It's just like a basic Python script, 400 lines, but what it does is effectively. It takes the topology in a very define in a very concise short way. So it's literally I don't know something: that's if you get click on the network service, mesh, right click and this will and click on the NSM 5 no DML example. So that's a similar kind of example to what we've seen before. That's the whole definition of the apology. That's how it's supposed to be connected, then.

G

You can also optionally supply configuration files that are going to get assigned or injected into each container as a startup config, which is where you define your OSPF conflict and whatnot and then and then you basically run one command and it says, create, and it takes that file the config files, the config files get injected as config maps into communities and then as subsequent layers volumes and at the same time it creates all of the manifests that are required for in sm with all the sidecars, and it see like cars with all the correct labels.

G

Expanding both ends of the link, blah blah blah and including injecting the actual network service itself. So um basically does a lot of the heavy lifting. So all you have to worry about me particularly have to worry about is how it looks like not. The funny beats like the annotations and labels and environment variables, so yeah, so I haven't done a lot of testing.

G

To be honest, I've just finished it at the ER last week, when I was coming back from Payton off hit some time to work on that, so they still may be some bugs, but based on my preliminary testing, it seems to be working. Fine, it produces the right manifests and it that's what I wanted to do so probably do some more testing once I get to the actual real-life use cases, but for now this is it.

B

If I may just add a couple of updates here, so first of all, I'm I really really really like this moment that I saw Michaels, presentation and I was immediately. We should have this in so I'm really glad that we finally have it like this. All this whole discussion started back in September. So a couple of months later, we are already here the other thing that actually is really interesting.

B

For me, this is the very first time that we have some tool that three runs on like uses an SMS, an API like it generates configuration files for NSM, so the very first controller for that leverages any same. A try, at least to the best of my knowledge. I was surprised by many things on the last anything cause cause. Maybe on the next thing I said calm, they will be about the existing still going on and what I wanted to do.

B

So what we hear today's all these files are kind of statically generated, but I would really like to be able to to make this in a following of Pierre's so that all these things are generated at runtime and then, if eventually I was why I was imagining that I will be able to kind of generate even these files. So saying I want the ten node topology, so it is very generated. Then it goes to gates top boy generates all the kubernetes.

B

A

Is all super exciting stuff I mean because two things strike me um the first one is, um you know it's good to have outside people using stuff, and so one of the things I'm curious about is how is your experience using NSM, particularly using an SM for something that wasn't it wasn't exactly what I'd have been envisioned for what it started so.

G

Be honest, said it works. Fine I came across a transient bug that then I I knew ahead of time existed so when and that bug is when and when an interface gets created in for sorry, when an interface for the port gets created first, it gets traded in my in a outside of a namespace in in host West namespace, and then it gets moved to a ports namespace. So when you have two ports coming up at the same time that have the same interfaces, they they may have the interfaces created in the Holst namespace.

G

At the same time, with the same name and there's the first or the set, the last call to create an interface is gonna, fail, saying, file exists and then it sort of triggers off of like because it happens very fast to cut I, haven't had time to actually build a full story of what happens after that, it's sort of like it goes away after some time and in another library that used to use before when I was doing it using mouse. You know I plugin.

G

They used to work around that by first generating a random interface name when they created in the holsters namespace and then moving it to the network namespace and then changing it to the that's.

A

Actually, if you could file that issue, that would be fantastic because they have to get fixed, but.

G

It will try to collect enough enough logs and information about that before.

A

It's a fantastic couch and it's a good example of how many eyes make all, but shallow, because we happen to. We don't happen to hit that particularly, but it's immediately obvious that it's a real problem when you mention it um and- and so this is this- is super good, but yeah we can definitely get that fixed and you're right. That is, that is a good thing to get fixed. um Yeah I mean the other thing. That's super nice about this is this was absolutely not what we designed for um that said.

A

I've always maintained that the measure of architecture is not whether you meet your requirements, it's whether you can easily be adopted to meet new requirements as they arise, that you've never thought of right and it sounds like this is actually going really well and that that's heartening, it kind of means we maybe are on the right track.

G

Yeah, it's quite a yeah. It's a quite a it's a lower level level of abstraction to allow other people to build something that wasn't designed to build in the first place. Yeah in that case is in that sense it's good yeah, it's the only yeah. So the only thing is that bargained and the fact that the documentation was a bit as far as in some places like notional, labels fully understand the client and labels and how they passed around and their meaning. But okay.

C

You know we had a whole discussion on this bike over it and a-seven khan and they consensus for most people was Popham lion. Ask the question, get a response. Two minutes later so yeah.

A

There was a funny point: we had a panel after Anna some con where various speakers sort of spoke up about their experiences and we had two conflicting opinions in the first opinion was well. Documentation is a little bit sparse and that's hard. The second opinion was well. That's fine, just jump on slack you'll get your answer in two minutes.

A

It was for two different people who had had hitting something that wasn't well-documented and I I think you shouldn't have to jump on slack so I'm hugely in favor of doing you know I'm hugely in favor of getting better documentation, but it is a good thing that the slack community helps.

G

Yeah definitely definitely.

G

G

So Mike I mean: do you want yeah yeah? That's that's! That's it I guess we can discuss it offline. So if there are any extra future steps that we want to take and generating this runtime and all that so yep great now, that's it! Thank you.

C

Yeah. Thank you very much for presenting this.

G

Where is it? Oh, oh,.

C

Yeah and if you run into any problems, I definitely feel free to reach out to to us we'll do our best to help you and with that, are there any. We have five minutes left on the agenda. Is there anything anyone else would like to discuss before we close it up.

C

C

Okay, well with that left I want to thank everyone for your time, and we will see you all again at the same time. Next week, y'all have a good day now.

B

Thank you we'll see you.

A

A