►
Description
Don't miss out! Join us at our upcoming event: KubeCon + CloudNativeCon Europe in Amsterdam, The Netherlands from 18 - 21 April, 2023. Learn more at https://kubecon.io The conference features presentations from developers and end users of Kubernetes, Prometheus, Envoy, and all of the other CNCF-hosted projects.
A
All
right
welcome
to
the
February
webinar
I
am
excited.
This
is
my
first
opportunity
to
host
the
cloud
Smith
webinar.
My
name
is
Sean
Odell
and
I
just
want
to
welcome
everybody.
Thank
you
for
joining
us
today,
we're
going
to
be
talking
about
containerization
or
containers
or
whatever
terminology
or
verb
or
noun
or
adjective
whatever.
A
Really
we
we
do
this
for,
for
a
couple
of
reasons,
number
one,
obviously
to
get
more
folks
involved
and
number
two
is
to
give
you
an
opportunity
to
be
a
winner,
and
we
definitely
want
everybody
to
win
at
the
end
of
the
show.
Today,
at
the
end
of
the
you
know,
the
episode
we're
going
to
be
doing
a
a
giveaway
and
so
stick
around.
We
would
love
for
you
to
ask
questions
in
the
chat
if
you
have
any
comments.
A
Anything
like
that
and
oh
as
always,
because
I'm
a
fan
of
the
Emoji,
please
say
hello
with
an
emoji
and
welcome
from
where
you
are.
If
I
was
not
doing,
this
I
would
actually
post
a
welcome
from
the
great
state
of
Texas
with
the
cowboy
hat
emoji,
but
I
can't
so
enough
about
me
and
let's
get
on
to
Today's.
A
Show
I
want
to
welcome
really
a
fantastic
guest,
a
knowledgeable,
a
a
guest
that
I
think
will
bring
a
lot
of
insight
to
the
conversation
of
containers
and
containerization
and
I'm
gonna
bring
in
Rory
McCune
from
datadog
Rory.
Welcome
to
the
show
today,
man
glad
to
have
you
and
if
you
don't
mind,
introduce
yourself
a
little
bit
more,
because
I
obviously
did
not
do
enough.
B
Hi
Sean
great
stuff,
thanks
very
much
for
having
me
along
I'm,
really
glad
to
be
here,
yep,
so
I
I
guess
I've
been
in
containers
for
a
while
now
I've
been
doing
container
security
for
about
I've
raised
about
seven
or
eight
years
now,
so
it
has
been
a
while
and
I've
been
working
around
Docker
kubernetes
and
a
lot
of
different
containerizations
and
container
security.
Tech
I'm
doing
a
variety
of
things
there.
So
you
know
it's
been
a
while.
A
B
A
Yeah,
absolutely
and
and
we're
going
to
get
into
some.
You
know
questions
here
today
and
really
just
a
dialogue
about
about
containers
and-
and
you
know
before
we
do
that.
Can
you
give
a
little
bit
of
you
mentioned
this
a
little
bit
in
your
introduction
and
I'll
close
out
a
little
bit
with
it
later
on?
But
if,
if
you
can
kind
of
tell
us
a
little
bit
about
your
involvement
in
kubernetes
and
kubecon
and
some
of
the
sigs
and
a
little
bit
about
your
your
knowledge
and
depth
there
yeah.
B
A
That's
a
honk
for
anybody
in
the
kubernetes
world,
there's
some
fun
connotations
and
some
interesting
individuals
behind
that,
and
just
just
love
to
have
that
when
you
know
we
were
having
a
little
bit
of
dialogue.
Obviously
getting
prepped
for
this
show
and
I
noticed
Sig,
honk
and
I
was
like
I've
gotta
I've
got
to
bring
that
up
and
and
let
it
be
a
part
of
the
conversation
you
know
my
background
in
kubernetes
is
extensive
as
well
having
having
been
a
part
of
VMware
really
when
the
rise
of
kubernetes
began.
A
It
was.
It
was
interesting,
even
even
pre-heptio
pre-pivotal,
you
know
we,
we
were
doing
things
within
the
kubernetes
space
focused
on
even
creating
our
own
kubernetes
engine.
There
was
an
announcement
made
at
one
time
and
I
happen
to
be
on
the
beta
of
that
from
an
internal
team
perspective
right.
So
it's
it's
always
interesting.
When
we
talk
kubernetes,
we
talk,
containers
and
talk
containerization
now.
The
other
thing
you
know
I,
think
we'll
we'll
kind
of
hear
about
today
is
you
can
do
containers
without
kubernetes
right.
A
This
is
nothing
new
for
everybody
on
the
call
today
you're
on
the
on
the
webinar
today,
you're,
probably
no
we
we
started
here.
We
started
there
right
oftentimes
these
terms,
these
phrases
really
just
a
different
things
that
we're
discussing
around
this
space,
often
kind
of
mesh,
and
sometimes
they
don't
have
to,
and
so
to
the
conversation
on
that
no.
B
I
think
it's
interesting
actually
because
you
say
that
there's
a
good
point.
A
lot
of
times,
I
used
to
be
a
pen,
tester
and
I
used
to
advise
customers
about
containers
and
container
security
and
they'd,
say
no
we're
doing
kubernetes
and
I
would
spend
time
with
them
and
go.
Do
you
really
really
need
kubernetes?
Because
it's
quite
complicated
yeah?
You
could
maybe
just
start
with
Docker
and
get
some
containers
out
there
and
I
think
that
for
a
while
has
been
that
sort
of
thing
where
it's
become
humanity
is
a
very
front
of
Mind.
B
A
And
and
you
you
know
it's
funny-
we
already
mentioned
serverless
and
containers
and
kubernetes
and
orchestrators
versus
Docker,
right,
like
at
the
end
of
the
day,
there's
a
lot
of
ways
to
solve
challenges,
problems
within
this
space
and
I
think
that's
what
this
conversation
is
about
today.
So,
let's,
let's
jump
into
it.
My
my
favorite
question
by
far
is
what
is
container
or
what
is
containerization
or
what
are
containers
and
a
preface
to
that.
What
is
the
2023
definition?
Because
that's
going
to
be
the
interesting
one,
so
go.
B
For
it
yeah
so
this,
let
me
try
and
see
what
I
can
think
of
for
this
containers
always
come
across
to
me.
The
way
they've
ended
up
they've
been
used
for
lots
of
different
things,
but
it's
all
about
delivery
and
management
of
apps
and,
being
this
portable,
independent
way
of
doing
that,
and
what
I
always
think
of
containers
or
Dockers
being
or
containerizations
being,
is
like
the
Goldilocks
solution
right.
B
So
it's
it's
lighter
weight
than
virtual
machines
and
physical
servers,
but
anything
lighter
than
that,
and
you
start
to
have
to
manage
Change
your
app
and
like
change
the
way
it
works,
whereas
I
think
that
the
light
of
containers,
the
reason
I
like
them
so
much
is
you
can
take
pretty
much
any
application
drop
it
in
a
container
and
it'll
work.
So
you
get
that
kind
of
like
you
know
it
just
works
feeling
and
that's
honestly
where
I
said
even
now.
A
B
A
A
If,
if
I
was
to
look
everybody's
had
this
conversation,
whether
we've
been
a
kubecon
or
talking
with
other,
you
know,
peers
or
different,
you
know,
customers
and
so
on,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
we
often
have
a
lot
of
opinions
about
the
technology.
We
have
to
have
a
lot
of
opinions
about
why
we
love
our
certain.
You
know
piece
of
technology,
but
really
we
are
talking
about
delivery
of
applications
and
we
were
talking
about
management
of
applications,
so
why?
B
Yeah
yeah
I
mean
I,
think
I,
suppose
I
I
kind
of
coming
from
that
point
of
view,
because
that's
it's
like
this
is
a
use
case.
It's
what
you
actually
want
to
get
out
of
it
at
the
end
of
the
day
and
I
love
the
tech
as
much
as
everyone
else.
You
know,
I
I
can
spend
hours
like
tinkering
around
with
the
details
of
exactly
how
you
can
figure
them
and
for
me
it's
like
how
you
secure
them
or
break
them
all
that
sort
of
stuff,
but
but
yeah
you
can.
B
You
can
I
think
you
can
lose
yourself
there
and
and
and
I
think
whatever
you
do,
it's
about
solving
a
business
problem
and-
and
that
is
to
me,
that's
the
business
problem
container
solve
and
hopefully
the
one
they
will
I,
don't
see
it
changing.
You
know
you
kind
of
get
this
hype
cycle
Affair
where
people
like
you
know
it's
gonna
go
up
and
it's
gonna
die
for
me.
Containers
have
come
through
that
now
and
it's
a
steady
state
where
I
don't
see
anyone
saying
we're
going
to
replace
containers.
A
Absolutely
you
know,
and
it's
funny
you
come
from
your
point
of
view:
I'll
bring
my
point
of
view.
I
started
as
an
infrastructure,
admin
and
architect,
right
and
and
really
my
entire
world
was
Central
or
it
was
centralized
and
focused
on
infrastructure
and
and
I
think
what's
what's
what's
occurred
over
you
know,
history
I
always
laugh
because
you
know
look
I
worked
in
in
a
fortune,
150
organization,
my
job
was
infrastructure
and
insecurity
and
Enterprise
management,
and
that
was
definitely
a
little
bit
of
a
love-hate
relationship
with
application
owners
and
application
teams
at
the
time.
A
You
know
relationship
between
the
infrastructure
and
the
applications
that
has
occurred
just
whether
it's
technology
or
you
know
bringing
down
of
barriers
and
so
on,
but
I
actually
think
containers
have
actually
helped
bring
that
closer
together
right
that
marriage
or
that
that
partnership
is,
is
even
more
solid
today
between
the
application
owners
and
the
infrastructure
or
or
now
even
devops
or
platform
teams.
So
I
I
love
to
talk
about
kind
of
the
maturity
of
containers
and
containerization
yeah.
B
It
usually
I
mean
I
mean
it
might
not
go
back
far
enough
was
in
in
I.T
Security
in
Banks
a
world
where
you
know
everything
was
on-prem.
The
content
of
cloud
was
that
and
you're
right.
The
move
there
I
mean
I.
Also
remember
that
when
we
did
projects
there,
you
would
talk
in
months
to
do
a
prototype
and
years
to
get
a
project,
and
now
it's
hours
or
even
less
than
hours
to
you,
you
can
launch
an
entire
application
and
a
cloud
account
using
a
container.
You
could
have
it
done
in
you
know.
B
10
20
minutes
tops
no
problem
and
that
changes
just
just
vast
and
that
and
it's
good
because
it
obviously
means
everyone
could
do
things
quickly,
but
the
security
person
is
bad
because
things
change
so
quickly.
Knowing
what's
going
on,
is
much
more
difficult
than
a
world
in
which
you
could
have
static
firewalls,
where
there's
a
change
request
that
goes
through
to
change
it.
That
world
is
long,
gone
and
I.
Think
hopefully
now,
when
people
in
kind
of
the
world
I
come
from,
have
kind
of
realized,
that's
not
for
coming
back
right.
A
I
have
no
desire
to
go
back
to
the
weeks
or
even
hours
of
time
it
takes
to
get
applications
and
infrastructure
deployed
and
provisioned
and
and
since
we're
talking
about
dating
ourselves,
you
mentioned
it
earlier.
I
was
I
was
working
on
CIS
benchmarks
over
20
years
ago
for
physical
servers
in
Windows
and
Linux
machines.
So
you
know
we,
you
know
it's
funny
how
our
the
technology
changes,
but
as
I
mentioned,
applications
and
and
management
of
those
applications
and
providing
value
to
the
business,
as
you
said,
is
really
what
this
is
all
about.
B
No
I
think
yeah
well,
actually,
I
thought.
The
other
thing
you
have
to
continue
is
what
they
are
now
and
it's
funny.
How
the
other
thing
that
struck
me
is
the
complete
merging
of
terms.
So,
if
you
look
at
serverless,
serverless
containers
used
to
be
distinct
and
now
they're,
not
distinct
anymore
right,
because
you
can
run
containers
in
Lambda
quite
happily
and
any
other
Surplus
service
you
choose
to
use.
A
A
B
It
was
me
and
I
was
going
to
start
with
containers
where
I
would
start
is,
with
a
virtual
machine
running
Docker
right
Docker
was
originally
meant
to
run
on
Linux
VMS.
That
was
where
it
came
from.
That
is
the
simplest
and
least
interfering
solution,
because
you're
not
putting
any
more
layers
in
place,
you
can
go
and
inspect
everything
one
of
the
great
things
I
love
about
Docker
is
it's
all
just
Linux,
so
you
can
use
Linux
tools
to
expect
exactly
what
that
container
is
doing.
B
You
can
build
that
understanding
before
you
start
adding
those
extra
layers
of
complexity.
Before
you
start,
you
know
trying
kubernetes
or
serverless
or
anything
like
that.
I
I'm,
a
great
fan
of
of
the
traditional
penis.
It
doesn't
feel
right,
calling
it
traditional,
but
it
has
been
a
while
now.
So
maybe
it's
traditional
Docker
VM
solution.
A
I,
don't
even
know
where
to
comment
on
them
or
traditional.
Some
folks
may
not
like
it,
but
it's
been
around
for
a
few
years
right.
So
so
Docker
is
the
starting
place
right,
simple,
getting
started.
You
know,
let's
take
any
of
it
up
a
little
bit
further,
if
you're,
if
you're,
if
you're
an
application
developer,
if
you're
looking
to
you
know
get
started,
create
a
small
service,
whether
it's
a
you
know,
a
I,
don't
know
simple
API
request,
whatever
whatever
you're
looking
to
get
out
of
it.
B
Get
a
Docker
file,
get
a
basic
base
image
and
then
just
start
adding
statements
and
like
try
to
run
up
each
container.
That's
what
I
used
to
do.
You
need
to
run
up,
add
a
new
stability.
What
does
that
do
with
my
container?
Does
it
does
it
work?
Does
it
fail
nice
and
fast?
You
know
and
then
once
you've
got
that
base
running
and
you've
got
your
image.
The
way
you
want
it,
then
you
start
thinking
about
compose
and
you
can
start
thinking
about
like
I
want
a
database.
B
A
Worth
doing
absolutely-
and
you
know
we're
talking
Docker
we're
talking,
containers
getting
started
right.
There
are
so
many
containers
or
artifacts
that
vendors
have
provided
that
different
providers
have
have
created
and
developed
whether
it's
for
you
know,
databases
or
observability,
or
you
know
any
of
the
you
know
Tooling
in
and
around
this
space
and
obviously
at
Cloud
Smith.
The
concern
is,
is
definitely
the
proliferation
of
packages,
including
Docker,
including
you
know,
everything
that
goes
into
a
into
a
container
or
into
an
application
right.
It's
it's
the
artifacts,
it's
the
package
management.
A
So
what
are
what
are
some
of
the
things
that
you
think
you
know
in
that
getting
started
right,
besides,
obviously
using
Docker
in
the
in
the
in
the
kind
of
the
beginning
of
the
journey.
What
are
some
additional
areas
that
maybe
outside
of
Docker
or
even
into
maybe
some
of
the
open
source
areas
that
fit
into
this
space?
That
maybe
some
somebody
should
begin
to
look
at?
Maybe
as
that
Next
Step,
Beyond,
Docker.
B
Yeah
I
think
The
Next,
Step,
Beyond,
Docker
I
suppose
well,
it
depends
on
your
on
your
goal.
Of
that
point,
I
mean.
If
you
wanted
to
go
to
the
cloud,
then
you
want
to
start
looking
at
basic
Cloud
stuff.
How
am
I
going
to
hook
these
things
together,
because
a
container
on
its
own
probably
isn't
going
to
do
everything
you
want
so
you're
going
to
start.
Looking
at
that
and
start
trying
to
build
up.
B
One
thing
I
would
say,
because
you
mentioned
kind
of
like
you
know,
there's
a
lot
of
artifacts
that
come
from
lots
of
places.
The
issue
there
starts
to
be
this
issue
of
trust
as
soon
as
you
head
towards
production,
be
super
careful
with
trust
and
container
images,
because
a
lot
of
people
get
this
one
wrong.
You
know
this
is
where
ever
eight
million
different
images
on
Docker
Hub
and
there's
a
150
ones.
B
You
might
be
able
to
trust
depending
on
how
you
feel
about
it
and
be
super
careful
with
that,
so
that
that's
my
security
person
say:
I
can't
talk
too
long
about
it.
Without
my
security
person's
hat,
going
on
a
little
bit
so
always
be
careful
there,
but
then
it's
about
kind
of
building
it
up
and
saying.
B
A
Is
a
lot
to
think
of
in
in
in
I
think
in
a
follow-up
episode,
we're
actually
going
to
dig
deep
into
the
security
topics,
but
the
one
thing
I
heard
there
is
while
there's
so
many
you
know
available
images
out
on
Docker
Hub.
You
probably
can't
trust
too
many
of
them
and
we're
starting
to
see
more
and
more
attacks
and
more
more
sophistication
in
that,
and
so
you
know
I
think
going
back.
Actually
you
said
it.
A
My
security
hat
will
come
on
pretty
quickly
too
so,
no
matter
what
you're
doing
whether
you're
creating
an
application
in
in
service
and
in
a
container
on
a
traditional.
You
know
monolith
perspective
right.
Security
is
always
at
the
Forefront.
So
my
my
you
know
next
answer
would
be
is
always
take.
Security
is
is
kind
of
that
next
step.
A
A
So
so
it's
interesting
as
we
get
started
in
this
that
it
you
know
it's
it's,
let's
start
simple,
but
quickly
it's
going
to
expand
to
to
other
areas
that
are
valuable
important
and
we
definitely
need
to
think
about
so
that
that
leads
me
to
the
next
question
some
of
the
folks
watching
today
and
that
will
be
watching
in
the
future.
They
are
seasoned.
They
are
veterans
right.
A
You
use
the
term
traditional
for
Docker,
which
I
think
is
still
funny,
but
let's,
let's
take
those
folks,
who've
been
using
and
building
applications
in
and
around
the
container
ecosystem.
Where
should
they
think
about
what
should
they
think
about?
And
what
are
some
of
the
next
steps
that
they
should
take
on
this
journey?
I.
B
Think
I
think
it's
interesting.
One
I
think
there's
obviously
a
lot
going
on
and
that's
one
of
the
great
it's
benefits
and
challenges
of
container
ecosystem
is
how
fast
it
moves.
How
fast
and
you
and
the
constancy
of
the
new
things
you
know.
I
do
this
thing
every
four
months:
there's
a
kubernetes
release
and
I
control
through
the
changes,
every
single
release,
the
printed
ones,
and
this
this
one
coming
up
in
April.
B
There
are
90
new
changes
I'm
coming
through,
so
it's
a
huge
quantity
in
terms
of
things
actually
interesting,
which
I
think
are
if
your
seasons
are
worth
looking
into
one
is
we
have
this
concept
of
containers
being
ephemeral
right?
We
all
know
the
containers
are
fair.
Well,
they
come
and
go
but
kubernetes
clusters,
maybe
not
so
much
I've,
seen
a
lot
of
people.
Unfortunately,
I've
learned
this
trap
of
clusters
being
like
pet
clusters.
Now
this
is
really
I.
Think
again.
B
B
I
think
a
lot
of
people
will
end
up
with
kubernetes
plus
serverless
containers
as
their
eventual
solution
to
get
away
from
a
lot
of
the
management
headaches
and
a
lot
of
the
problems
that
underlie
can
like
maintaining
again
this
maintenance
problem
and
trying
to
get
down
the
amount
of
mid
time
you
have
to
spend
on
maintenance.
It
has
its
own
sets
of
problems,
but
I
just
have
this
feeling
that
the
happy
place
will
end
up
being
there.
A
Yeah,
you
know
it's
it's.
You
know
we
talk
about
businesses,
you
know
needing
applications
and
delivering
of
applications
from
from
a
from
an
application
delivery
perspective.
You
bring
up
the
topic
of
just
because
you
think
you
need
to
run
it
on
kubernetes
or
on
this
particular
piece
of
infrastructure
doesn't
necessarily
mean
it
has
to
I
mean
there's
even
a
question
in
the
chat.
A
You
know
and
the
question
is
from
I
believe
it's
bibik.
If
I'm,
if
I'm
mispronouncing
it
I
apologize
for
a
front-end
app
using
react,
do
we
use
a
container
or
a
CDN?
Now
I,
don't
think,
there's
a
perfect
answer
for
this
I,
don't
I,
know
I,
don't
think
you're
going
to
be
able
to
be
like
you
should
use
X
or
you
should
use
y,
but
I.
Think
what's
interesting
and
we'll
talk
about
this
a
little
bit
I'm
curious.
Your
opinion.
A
I've
always
been
a
fan
of
run
the
application
where
it
makes
the
most
sense
for
your
business
for
the
requirements
for
the
security
right
for
the
touch
like
there's.
Just
obviously
that
you
know
data
resiliency,
there's
lots
of
things
that
go
into
it.
But
that
being
said
just
because
you're
running
or
creating
an
application,
it
doesn't
necessarily
have
to
be
a
container
or
maybe
it
is
serverless
or
maybe
it's
a
function
or
maybe
it's
you
know
those
types
of
things.
B
I
think
you
end
up
having
to
look
at
the
trade-offs
you're
going
to
make,
and
there
are
quite
a
few
of
them.
So
in
the
advantage
of
containers-
and
this
is
the
big
promises
you
can
run
the
app
in
test
and
Dev
and
CI
all
the
same
way-
serverless.
That's
that's
trickier,
but
serverless
has
huge
advantages
for
bursty
applications.
You
know
I
I
want
to
do
suddenly.
B
I
need
to
do
a
thousand
requests
where
previously
it's
running
quite
slow
and
and
that
so
that's
the
kind
of
thing
where
you
start
thinking
of
it's
to
do
with
you
know
this
style
of
application.
What
sort
of
coding
you're
using?
Is
it
Greenfield
or
are
you
Legacy?
Are
you
porting
a
legacy
at
which
case
containers
or
VMS
is
probably
going
to
be
your
answer,
because
the
app
won't
take
being
put
to
say
that's
why
I
always
think
with
serverless
is
like
where
serverless
has
its
place.
B
A
I
I
I,
so
yeah,
yeah,
I,
don't
think
Legacy
is
going
anywhere.
It
would
be
nice,
it
would
be
really
awesome,
but
there's
a
reason
mainframes
in
the
as400s,
and
all
of
these
things
are
still
sitting
in
data
centers
and
hey.
It
is
what
it
is
right
we
we
have
to.
We
have
to
I
think
that's
the
key
right.
We
we're
still
trying
to
solve
business
problems.
A
You
know,
deliver
value
to
the
business,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day,
just
because
we
needed
to
run
in
kubernetes
doesn't
mean
it
needs
to
run
in
kubernetes
right
and
I
actually
put
that
in
in
one
of
my
I
wrote
a
predictions
blog
a
couple
weeks
ago
and
in
that
I
actually
talked
about.
We,
we
have
made
our
lives
so
complex,
just
because
of
our
opinions
or
our
technical
choices,
which
has
nothing
to
do
with
what
we're
actually
trying
to
do,
which
is
deliver
applications
yeah.
The.
B
B
You
need
to
go
and
get
additional
things
so
you're
going
to
need
cni
you're,
going
to
need
storage,
you're
gonna
need
networking
you're
going
to
need
authentication,
Solutions
you're,
going
to
need
admission
control,
there's
just
a
whole
stack
of
additional
and
I
look
at
that
go
that's
horribly
complicated
for
a
new
company
and
that's
coming
up
to
this
point.
I,
probably
don't
want
to
start
with
kubernetes
unless
you
kind
of
have
to
start
with
something
somewhere
running
containers.
B
You
know
a
con
serverless
container
solution
that
let
you
scale
it
doesn't
have
all
the
additional
complexity
and
and
yeah
so
that
the
complexity,
one
probably
the
bit.
That
would
worry
me
the
both
most
about
how
people
are
doing.
Containers
is
I've
been
doing
this
for
I
said
you
know
eight
nine
years
now,
containers
I
still
learn
things
every
week.
Oh
yeah,
you
will
never
stop.
A
But
it's
interesting
you,
you
didn't
even
mention
observability
and
monitoring
and
traces
and
all
of
that
fun
stuff.
There
really
is
right.
You
know,
I've
I've
had
a
in-depth
view
of
the
service
mesh
world
for
years
now
you
know.
Obviously
you
know
observability
in
the
different
components
of
pieces.
Complexity
is
not
necessarily
a
bad
thing
and
I
want
to
be
careful
with
that.
Actually,
as
I
as
I
as
I
reread
my
predictions
blog
after
I
got
posted
I
was
like
wait.
A
Some
folks
might
actually
see
that
I
was
negative
in
some
way
towards
containers
or
or
kubernetes,
or
you
know
in
that
sense,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day,
delivering
value
to
the
business
and
and
helping
reduce
that
complexity.
However,
you
choose
to
solve
it
is,
is
always
the
right
answer
for
the
organization
and
obviously
we
have
opinions
and
and
there's
going
to
be
trade-offs
and
we've
been
doing
this
for
a
long
time,
and
so
it's
definitely
fun
to
see
kind
of
the
maturity.
A
You
know
you,
you
mentioned
something
and
I
want
to
go
back
to
this,
because
you
actually
said
containers
or
the
ecosystem,
whether
it's
kubernetes
or
serverless,
or
all
of
the
necessary
components
in
and
around
containers.
It
moves
so
fast.
What
are
some,
what
are
some
practical
ways
that
you
have
found
to
stay
on
top
of
the
very
fast
you
know,
moving
I
would
call
it
a
a
a
a
a
large
ship
at
this
point.
Yeah
sorry
kubernetes
joke
in
there,
but
What.
You
know
how
do
you?
A
B
Guess
I
guess
it
depends
on
like
how
focused
you
are
if
you're
super
focused
on
it,
weirdly
one
of
the
best
ways
is
actually
participating
in
the
project.
So
if
you
actually
there's,
there
are
slacks
for
kubernetes
as
and
you
can
join
six.
So
if
you're
like
interested
the
best
ways
to
actually
find
it
I
found
so
much
information,
I
wouldn't
find
otherwise
by
being
in
the
right
channel
on
the
kubernetes
slack
and
there's
some
really
great
people
there,
who
are
very
helpful.
That's
a
good
one.
B
Social
media
is
all
is
a
perennial
favorite,
whichever
social
media
platform
you're
on
these
days-
and
there
are
you-
know,
there's
people
on
different
ones,
but
places
like
LinkedIn,
Twitter
Mastodon
started
to
become
more
popular
I
found
certain.
You
know:
technicians,
The,
Challenge.
There
is
now
you've
got
like
three
to
four
different
social
networks
to
hang
out
on
and
even
places
like
Reddit
as
well.
B
You
know
the
reddit's
a
great
there's
lots
of
good
information
if
you
find
the
right
subreddit,
there's
good
info
so
is
kind
of
this
journey
where
you're,
just
like
sucking
in
information
and
then
it's
like,
where
do
I
focus,
because
you
can't
yeah
cover
it
all
and
then
just
like
trying
to
nail
it
and
the
other
one.
If
you
get
super
like
if
you
get
super
deep
with
kubernetes,
especially
at
Docker
as
well,
if
you
will
find
GitHub
is
weirdly
the
best,
sometimes
the
only
place
to
find
your
answer.
B
I
have
on
multiple
occasions
now
you
spend
some
hours
in
other
GitHub
issues
or
the
code
itself
belonging
around
trying
to
find
what
I
want.
So
that
is
like
that's
generally,
you
know.
If
you
really
want
to
know
the
debt,
that's
probably
where
you
have
to
hang
out,
is
GitHub
and
actually
start
looking
at
PRS
and
issues
which
you
know
you
have
to
be
kind
of
like
either
very
interested,
or
you
know
really
needing
that
information,
though.
B
Right
my
Twitter
handle
and
generally
my
handle
on
most
is
the
same
thing.
It's
Racine,
which
is
r-a-e-s-e-n-e
for
a
very
geeky
reason,
which
is
basically
when
I
started
getting
into
to
kind
of
like
the
internet.
It
was
a
handle
of
a
game.
I
was
playing,
I
was
a
name
in
a
game,
and
it
was
the
one
thing.
I
could
find
that
no
one
had
taken,
so
you
could
go
to
any
given
website
and
have
that
name
and-
and
that
lasted
me
like,
for
you
know
the
last
20
years.
A
You
don't
have
a
very
common,
you
know,
name
I
would
say
in
the
tech
space
neither
do
I
by
by
chance,
maybe
maybe
because
of
of
our
lineage
and
Heritage
and
where
we
come
from.
My
handles
are
not
as
cool
as
yours.
I
chose
my
handle
because
there
was
a
photographer
who
beat
me
to
it
at
one
point
in
time
he
had
Sean
or
at
Sean
Odell.
So
I
am
the
Sean
Odell
that
was
long
before
anybody
at
a
d
before
so
I'd
like
to
consider
myself.
A
I
was
cool
in
that
sense,
but
that
mind
does
also
stretch
across
Mast
and
on
Good
Hope
LinkedIn.
All
of
the
you
know
necessary,
mediums
and
and
platforms.
So
definitely
Rory
is
is
a
is
a
great,
follow,
I'm
kind
of
a
terrible
follow
at
times,
because
I
like
to
delve
into
other
things
that
have
nothing
to
do
with
technology,
but
you
should
follow
anyway.
It's
always
kind
of
fun
all
right.
Let's
get
back
to
the
topic
at
hand.
A
What
are
some
of
the
challenges-
and
this
is
so
broad,
so
I
almost
wanted
to
narrow
this
down,
because
even
even
in
the
chat,
some
of
the
folks
are
actually
already
articulating
some
of
the
challenges
that
they
are
saying.
But
what
are
some
of
the
let's
start
with,
let's
start
with
two
top
challenges
that
still
remain
with
containers
and
containerization,
and
then
how
do
you
think
they
will
be
solved
or
overcome?
B
So
I
mean
I
think
to
be
honest
with
you,
we've
already
covered
I.
Think
we've
touched
on
these
because
I
think
that
these
these
go
all
the
way
through
it,
the
the
the
one
that
I
probably
find
the
hardest
or
the
the
one
of
the
biggest
challenge
is
complexity.
Is
that
we're
building
ever
and
every
month?
It
goes
by.
We
had
a
new
thing
that
comes
in,
and
it's
more
complexity
and
I
think
that
there's
gonna
have
to
be
a
point
where
companies,
either
they
rationalize
and
say,
actually
do
I
need
this
27.
B
You
know-
and
you
said
before,
it's
like
if
it's
building
business
value
to
the
business
great,
but
but
is
there
something
complexity
that
maybe
isn't
bringing
value
to
the
business
or
maybe
could
be
done
in
a
more
simple
way
that,
from
my
money
is,
is
how
I
would
be
what
I'd
be
thinking
about,
because
I
just
look
at
some
of
the
stacks
now
and
go?
How
does
anyone
you
know
get
their
head
around,
get
down
to
their
head
and
understand?
What's
going
on.
A
They
have
a
massive
team
attempting
to
solve
the
infrastructure
operational
platform
challenges
instead
of
focusing
on
their
Core
Business
value,
which
is
delivering
applications
right.
It's
I
know
that
one
gets
on
some
people
when
you
start
to
talk
about
that,
like
we've,
we
might
have.
We
might
have
overdone
some
of
this
in
in
a
lot
of
ways,
and
you
know
we
talk
about
challenges.
I
think!
That's
actually
true!
You
mentioned.
A
You
know
whether
it's
complexity
right
we've
talked
a
little
bit
about
security,
we're
not
going
to
dive
too
far
down
into
that
one.
But
security
comes
up
in
every
conversation.
Every
day
there
are
so
many
different
surface.
You
know
attack
you
know
as
attack
points.
There
are
new,
you
know
whether
it's
you
know
benchmarks
or
new
findings
or
new
this
right,
and
it
moves
fast.
So
if,
if
you
want
to,
if
you
let's,
let's
talk
a
little
bit
about
security,
we'll
actually
look
at
this
a
little
bit
in
the
follow-up
question
as
well.
A
But
just
what
are
some
things
that
if,
if
you
were
to
look
at
the
security
challenges
of
of
containers
today,
can
you
can
you
rattle
off
a
few
of
those
that
you
think
might
be
super
valid
and
important?
You
don't
have
to
go
too
far
in
the
weeds,
but
just
kind
of
at
the
surface.
What
are
some
of
those
challenges
that.
B
You
can
see
the
fox
I
mean
the
first
one.
That
is
a
kind
of
a
everything
Exposed
on
the
Internet
is
the
kind
of
way
I
would
put
it
to
begin
with.
So
we've
gone
for
this
world
where
things
were
not
directly
exposed
and
the
problem
with
everything
exposing
the
internet
kubernetes
is
a
good
example,
so
there
are
around
900
000
kubernetes
hosts
directly
connect
to
the
internet,
and
that
means
that
one
mistake
in
your
authentication
one
mistake
or
one
bug
in
kubernetes
right:
it's
a
software.
B
Everything
is
CVS
inbox
that
will
get
you
in
trouble
and
that
we've
gone
through
this
very
hyper,
connected,
World
and
and
quite
timely.
At
the
moment,
you've
seen
companies
essentially
like
losing
staff
and
they've
been
revoking
their
access.
Thank
you.
Well.
All
your
clusters
are
right
there
on
the
internet,
so
you
know
how
careful
are
you
being
so?
B
There's
lots
of
different
threads
and
we've
seen
that
a
lot
of
attackers
doing
things
like
compromising
developer
laptops
as
a
way
again,
all
your
stuff
straight
on
the
internet
so
before
you
could
maybe
cut
off
all
their
access
by
getting
rid
of
a
VPN
right.
That's
the
old
way
it
used
to
work.
Everything
went
through
the
VPN.
Now
you
can't
do
that
anymore.
If
someone
compromises,
one
of
your
developers,
laptops,
you're
gonna,
have
to
scramble
across
how
many
systems
do
you
even
know
where
they
are
yeah?
Do
you
talk
you
mentioned
observability?
B
The
other
one
which
obviously
is
getting
a
lot
of
press
and,
and
rightly
so
at
the
moment,
is
supply
chain
which
is
kind
of
it's
another
complexity
problem,
because
we've
got
all
these
applications
that
have
hundreds
of
libraries,
as
you
know,
sitting
underneath
the
actual
code
you've
written
and
now
it
turns
out
that
attackers
have
worked
that
out
and
I
I
weirdly
I,
always
think
of
security
people.
You
know
you're
right,
like
Cassandra
right.
B
You
make
prophecies
that
no
one
will
believe
but
and
I
actually
did
a
talk
in
2015
about
this
exact
problem
about
supply
chain
security.
But
what
happens
if
an
attacker
takes
out
one
library
that
you
use
and
how
there's
really
no
great
solution?
Luckily,
there
are
people
working
on
that
now
and
it's
getting
better,
but
still
that's
the
one
that,
like
you
know,
do
you
know
about
every
application,
Library
the
trend,
you
know
who
wrote
it.
You
probably
don't
know
who
wrote
it
do
you
know
what
their
situation
is,
who
they
work
for?
B
What
their
background
is?
How
secure
are
they?
No,
you
don't
know
that
either
you
don't
probably
know
who
they
are.
Even
if
you
know
all
of
the
versions
you've
got
so
it's
that
kind
of
lesson
of
the
complexity
problem
right,
but
those
are
the
two
ones.
I
think
that
really
I
think
about
a
lot
when
we're
looking
at
this
space,
yeah.
A
Absolutely
and
it
obviously
Cloud
Smith
from
from
our
perspective,
this
is
the
this
is
the
question
we
get
asked
on
a
you
know,
hour
to
hour
basis,
talking
with
customers
and
prospective
customers
and
Prospects,
and
all
of
that
look
supply
chain
is
is
like
in
some
ways
we
solve
some
complexity,
challenges
with
CI,
CD
and
continuous.
You
know
integration,
continuous
delivery,
continuous
testing
and
building
run
books
and
we've
we've
actually
solved
a
lot
of
the
complexity
by
automation.
A
But
when
you
inject,
as
you
said,
one
compromise
Library
that
entire
that
entire
you
know,
process
and
Pipeline
and
supply
chain
is
now
compromised
and
the
challenge
I
see
is
nobody
has
a
clue
where
it
is
right.
Where
did
this
happen?
Why
did
this
happen?
What
systems
were
affected
right.
How
many
containers
do
I
have
running
out
there
that
are
now
compromised
because
of
this,
and
so
this
is
probably
you
know:
I
don't
want
to
go
too
far
in
this
guy.
We
could.
A
We
could
sit
here
and
talk
for
hours
about
this
specific
subject
in
our
internet.
In
our
follow-up
to
this,
we
will
actually
dive
deep
and
and
actually
drill
into
some
of
those
challenges
and
and
talk
about
a
lot
of
the
like
the
intricacies
I
mean
we
haven't
even
mentioned
s-bomb,
yet
right
we
have
to
we've.
We've
actually
mentioned
the
concept
we
haven't
talked
about
or
or
the
the
components
of
an
s-bomb,
but
we
haven't
actually
talked
about
it
in
general
right.
So
it's
it's
it's
interesting.
A
How
all
of
this
goes
back
to
just
kind
of
a
new
introduction
of
technology.
In
this
containers
we
solved
a
problem
here,
then
we
introduced
a
little
bit
more
complexity
that
we
solved
another
problem
here
right
and
it's
just
this
continual
you
know,
process
that
we're
on
which
I
think
is
a
good
thing,
but
at
the
same
time
it
can
also
be
a
struggle
and
a
bad
thing.
So
you
know
any
final
comments
on
the
topic
around.
You
know
container
security.
B
Think
I
I
think
it
yeah
we're
right.
We
have
got
supply
chain
problems
right
now.
It's
good
to
see
and
I'll
mention
the
open
ssf.
If
people
haven't
looked
into
open,
ssf,
Good
Foundations
they're
doing
a
lot
of
great
work
on
trying
to
address
this
problem.
It's
not
a
quick
fix.
This
is
the
thing
that
I
think
is
a
big
challenge
with
supply
chain
is
no
one
can
tell
you
just
do
this
and
you
fixed
it
yeah
they
can
help.
B
They
can
provide
you
with
tools,
they
can
provide
you
with
advice,
but
they
cannot
fix
it
quickly.
It's
it's
a
it's
going
to
be
a
problem,
for
you
know
forever
and
again.
I
actually
would
bring
it
back
to
the
message.
I
had
before
about
complexity
of
trying
to
reduce
complexity,
I,
try
to
think
think
of
Library
dependencies
as
being
kind
of
like.
Is
that
nuclear
power
right?
It's
great,
you
use
them,
they
get
you
there
faster.
B
They
do
something
for
you,
but
then
you
have
to
manage
the
radioactive
waste
and
that's
all
the
maintenance
you
have
to
do
on
all
these
libraries.
So
every
time
you
add
another
library
for
a
project,
think
about
that's
the
more
radioactive
waste
I
then
have
to
manage
it's.
You
know
it's
not
it's
a
cost
and
it's
that
the
hopefully,
that
might
I
think
for
me
the
one
of
the
best
things
you
can
do
to
help
your
supply
chain.
Securities
say
you
know,
do
I
need
500.
Libraries
here
can
I
maybe
get
that
down
by
100.
B
A
Yeah,
limiting
the
attack
surface
is
is,
is
the
is
the
biggest
challenge
in
that
sense,
so
so
to
close
things
out
right,
we
have
you
know
we.
We've
talked
a
lot
about
containers
kubernetes,
you
know
obviously
exploring
serverless
containers
and
and
really
just
in
general,
about
application,
delivery
and
and
the
challenges
in
and
around
the
space.
So
as
as
you,
you
know
kind
of
last
question
I'll
give
you
an
opportunity
to
to
kind
of
open
this
up,
and
just
you
know
talk
about
the
your
your
remainder
for
2023..
A
What
are
some
things
that
you're
going
to
be
focusing
on
in
and
around
this
space
that
maybe
we've
talked
about?
But
if
you
could
detail,
maybe
where
you
are
are
looking
to
focus
or
or
maybe
some
of
the
things
that
you're
hoping
we
solve
in
and
around
this
ecosystem.
Based
upon
these
challenges,
we've
discussed
yeah.
B
So
if
I
was
advising
people
you
know,
that's
the
thing
to
do
is
to
work
from
that
base
and
work.
Your
way
up
know
what's
going
on
underneath
the
covers
in
terms
of
stuff.
That
will
be
one
for
me
is
trying
to
explain
more
to
people
about
that.
I
think
the
other
thing
is
just
trying
to
keep
up
with
kubernetes
there's
a
new.
So
the
way
kubernetes
is
Mission
Control,
there's
a
new
inbuilt
version
of
that
coming
along,
which
is
going
into
Alpha.
A
Yeah,
there's
just
so
much
to
do
in
in
finding
finding
that
focus
and
I
think
he
actually
said
it
a
couple
times
is:
nobody
can
solve
every
problem
right.
There
are
variety
of
challenges.
Some
of
them
take
very
specific
focus
and
Niche
I
I
laugh
back
in
the
day.
You
know
when,
when
we
started
getting
into
you
know
traditional
monitoring
tools
and
that
the
Microsoft,
you
know
the
Microsoft's
mom
and
you
know
just
kind
of
the
the
the
build
out
of
of
all
of
those
tool
sets.
A
There's
always
this
idea
of
having
a
single
pane
of
glass
and
I've
never
prescribed
to
that
I.
Do
not
believe
in
that
it's
it's
nearly
impossible
and
so
is.
Is
we
go
into
2023
I,
look
forward
to
every
organization,
every
open
source
project,
whether
commercial
organizations
right
you
know,
governing
bodies
or
cigs?
Obviously
you
know
ciis,
and
you
know
really
just
everybody
in
this
ecosystem
is
solving
what
they
know
best
and
and
and
and
and
focusing
on
that.
Obviously,
some
folks
are
far
better
at
different
areas
than
others.
A
You
know,
different
individuals
have
different.
You
know
all
of
us
have
different
expertise
and
different
focus,
and
so
to
me,
that's
going
to
be
the
biggest
thing
for
2023
is
not
trying
to
solve
every
problem
but
trying
to
solve
each
of
the
little
you
know
kind
of
here
and
there
and
and
as
we
solve
each
of
those
smaller
problems
or
chunks
right.
It's
going
to
take
a
big.
A
You
know,
effort
by
a
lot
of
different
folks
to
to
do
it,
but
I
think
we
can
get
better
than
where
we
are
today
and
so
that
that
will
definitely
help
out
in
this
idea
in
an
area
around
containerization.
So
really
really
excited
really
for
for
what
is
happening
in
this
space
and
and
really
want
to.
Thank
you
for
the
for
the
time
coming
in
and
talking
and
as
I
close
out
today.
A
I
want
to
you
know:
I
want
to
bring
up
a
few
things,
especially
For
You
Rory,
because
we
have
kubecon
coming
up
in
April.
So
if
you
don't
mind
kind
of
tell
us
about
what
your,
what
you're
going
to
be
doing
at
kubecon
any
sessions,
you
might
have
a
you
know,
a
part
of
or
any
of
the
sigs
and
the
different
things
that
you
will
be
taking
taking
part
in.
So.
B
Yep,
the
main
thing
are
we
going
to
talk
qcon
with
a
Sig
honk,
so
it's
myself,
Brad
gieseman,
Ian,
Cool,
Water
and
Daffy
Cooley,
and
we're
going
to
be
talking
about
container
vulnerable
designers
and
how
potentially
to
work
out,
what's
called
malicious
compliance
or
talk,
and
it's
about
how
could
clever
people
try
and
get
past
all
those
nice
controls
we
put
in
place
or
a
container
vulnerability,
scanners
and
and
controls
so
should
be
interesting.
I'm.
A
Looking
forward
yeah,
no
I
I
am
as
well,
and
obviously
you
mentioned
some
fantastic
folks.
Besides
yourself
on
that
team,
I
I
I
had
the
privilege
of
working
with
Duffy
at
at
VMware,
fantastic
and
obviously
Ian
well-known,
well,
respected,
and
if
you
ever
see,
Ian,
obviously
Hong
because
very
very
important
to
them
and
so
definitely
bring
that
up
a
couple
other
things
you
know
from
a
cloud
Smith
perspective.
A
A
Let
me
do
the
the
winners.
First
and
I've
got
one
more
big
announcement,
so
our
winners
for
today
is
a
Jonathan
Burrell
back.
He
is
a
getting
a
prize
pack.
Congratulations
to
Jonathan
that
looks
like
swim
or
sh,
I'm
going
to
say,
swim,
I'm,
gonna,
totally
butcher,
that
name
epic
bite
a
prize
pack
as
well,
and
then
Wiley
Lang
prize
pack
and
Matthew
Greiner.
A
free
lunch
and
Hillary
will
be
reaching
out
to
all
of
you
for
that.
A
But
the
big
announcement
is
this:
we
are
announcing
unpacked
unpacked
as
a
conference
that
we
are
excited
about.
The
cloud
Smith
is
putting
on
focused
on
devops
package
management,
supply,
chain
security,
and
this
will
be
virtual
and
we're
going
to
be
having
this
in
a
couple
of
months.
So
if
you
go
to
unpackedconference.com,
we
would
love
to
have
you
sign
sign
up?
It's
you
know,
go
check
it
out.