Cloud Native Computing Foundation TAG App Delivery / Bi-Weekly, 19 Jul 2023

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From YouTube: 2023-07-19 TAG General Meeting

Description

TAG web site: https://tag-app-delivery.cncf.io/
TAG Slack channel: https://cloud-native.slack.com/archives/CL3SL0CP5
TAG git repo: https://github.com/cncf/tag-app-delivery
TAG meeting notes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OykvqvhSG4AxEdmDMXilrupsX2n1qCSJUWwTc3I7AOs/edit

A

A

This work right.

B

A

That moment of truth, when you're waiting for somebody to house to come on, looks like I'm, not in the I, don't have this admin right.

C

C

I'm just gonna grab some coffee really fast, but I'm here, good.

A

B

Hey Corona, how you doing.

D

I literally just got home from kcd Munich I like worked in two minutes. How was that that was good? It was fun. We.

E

Had a chance to also uh Thomas and Alloys and uh yeah, we had a chance to talk about the platform.

A

The good thing is when you pause the recording FYI for folks that might do this in the future. I need to give everyone a lesson on at some point, probably because it makes them into two recordings in the zoom Library.

A

So afterwards, I can go and like yeah. The first 20 seconds me in the end were shooting the whatever, uh but we don't have to have that. I can just choose the later.

D

One uh those recordings uh uploaded in like the Zoom cloud, or uh do you have chocolate them yourself.

A

They go to zoom UF, and actually they are public. um You can watch them from Zoom if we want it, but I copy them all over to YouTube I. Have that documented in a process? In the background which you know, the leads documents got like the passwords and stuff and how to get access to our Zoom account.

A

um Definitely thinking about how to make that more public, but obviously not public, but yeah. That's the same with cncf, always we kind of minimum viable families.

A

um Okay, so I've got I, guess that's four, um which is um I wanna. There's some important updates here, actually, one of the biggest things that I brought up in this topic. That in the first thing the agenda today is that we don't have enough contributors to do it and, as this kind of confirms it, um so the the thing that I wanted to share with the group today and at least we're recording and I'll. You know I've shared this with the with the chairs and leads and whoever is whatever they are.

A

uh The the oversight committee technical oversight committee has the responsibility to review all of the cncf projects. I, don't know if it's annually, or at least every I don't know Serena, probably knows how frequently, but every you know every year or two and they have a big backlog, um because you know overall, CNC I think was designed for a degree of scale lower than the number of projects we have, so they wanna um delegate we need to scale, we need the tags. We need volunteers to help with that.

A

Beyond the talk people they're, just they don't they just don't have enough people I think um so.

A

They've made a list and I put it in the thing and I can copy it in here of all the things that need review and you can actually even filter it down by pasting the filter down one just to get R4, because there's really only four for us right now and I'm, not interested in figuring out which of the others might actually, you know, be sure to um so. You know, let's see what did I write down here.

A

um One thing is I wanted to mention just because this is not the same as the sandbox project reviews which we've informally been getting involved with. Also, this is the ones that are already accepted kind of check it. How are they doing? You know that kind of stuff, uh actually that itself.

B

A

Exactly are you checking out? It's probably a question. People should ask um so I put in this uh in the agenda, a process that you know, I kind of am proposing a rough process um that we find one of the four ones that they've asked us to do by the end of September.

A

We find one volunteer, you know, that's not a lead, um which I guess is just me right now as the lead, but hopefully the other leads will do it also, like I, think we need a lead involved to well Shepherd, based on what they've learned and also to bring the learnings back and make sure that they get applied to the next four or whatever. So that's why I added early in the day so I feel like it should definitely be one and one, um but I don't want it.

A

You know it would be great if there's some, uh um you know.

B

A

I, you know I think that would be really valuable in the long term. um Then.

F

We could create an issue I've been doing this.

A

Informally, also past couple years, like there's a project to review tag in the issues you can filter by those to see all the ones that have come to us.

A

um You know they're informal, so, like CD events came a couple months ago, uh litmus chaos came like three months ago like so those are kind of quasi they're, not really reviews I, guess they just come and talk to us, but maybe that's part of the review process. We have to come and present for 20 I think it should be actually present for 20 minutes to us here um as a group uh anyway. So we can learn some from that. You know I! Try when I, whatever people comment like I try to like capture.

A

What do you think the value of your project is? What's the technical you know the core of the technical implementation um and like what's coming next, like that I.

F

A

If that's the right stuff, that's some just some inspiration I learned from, but then the third line is really the point that I'm getting at. We need to follow the guidelines from the pack and those are in development. um I haven't looked since yesterday, Colorado, maybe they're they're pretty ready to go at this point, um but yeah, basically we'll have the hypothesis or the guidelines for the talk you know we'll have to iterate on them. I presume.

C

B

To interrupt I.

C

Kind of I had my hand up for a while. Oh.

A

Sorry, I I have my screen off the sides. We can see the hands yeah.

C

No no worries um I should have just spoken up, um so this also helps because this is um making me think of other things for um the other document.

C

um If a tag leader has to be involved for each one, I've been involved in this tag for several years on and off all right, it has felt at times that there's been a lot of I, guess not that you would do it but gatekeeping, and that slows things down, and you know I've reviewed a lot of projects, for you know our own internal discussions, so I want to make sure that when you're saying that there has to be a tag leader, um I don't feel there does need to be.

C

There are going to be people in the community that have expertise that have been involved for a while and many times, tag leaders and chairs aren't always haven't been involved in reviews. So I am going to throw that out there because.

D

Yeah I guess the question is: what would the tag lead or provide, and would it be? Maybe okay just for them to do like a you know, check out, check it off or something just like read read the um final review after it's done, I'm gonna say like this is fine.

C

A

Yeah I definitely hear you that um yeah requiring a tag lead could get. We don't want to slow things down, um I I guess my thinking was less that the tag needs for their own, uh it's more uh so that the process can be repeated. You know, instead of having 15 different silos each doing their own. Like can somebody that you know overlay all of those, and that seems like a tag, and so I was more thinking, like maybe the first few like getting that kind of hierarchy.

A

I've been right, we don't want hierarchy, but on the other hand, it's like platforms like if everybody is building their own full stack for each review, that's kind that could be wasteful, inefficient, inconsistent, like that's what I'm kind of wanting a tag lead. It doesn't have to be tag on me. Honestly, it could be, you can run. It could be anybody honestly. Just somebody, that's like kind of has an eye on the overall process.

C

I think if there's only four right now, it could be done async in a dock, for whoever wants to also chime in and then you can see the patterns emerge. You know, if there's only four, it might be instead of defining the exact process right now like how does it organically happen?

C

um What do you think.

A

I love it that's exact, that's the answer. That's a good answer like, in other words, we don't have to have a tag lead officially assigned it's like whoever does it is gonna, publish it on GitHub and it's going to be a Google doc whatever, and people that need that feel. It's valuable to apply consistent patterns can look at it and learn from it. Yeah makes sense. It's.

F

Also, a question of whether or not this tag needs to be Innovative in this space or if there is something that another tag has started to put together. As just like a guideline of ask these questions- or you know, offer this- these supports that maybe the projects don't know are available to them or whatever it is. That's like here is a good tick list of things to make sure you've covered with these projects to make sure that they feel like they've, got the support and the direction that they need from tags.

F

Like I, don't know I, we may have our own little subset that we can add to it, but I can't imagine that we are very, very unique in how we want to support projects in comparison too. Any other tag uh in the cncf I.

C

Have a feeling tag? Security might have a lot of those.

F

I have definitely uh more than once been impressed by their organization on things like this, so they would definitely be one of the first ones. I go look at! Thank you. If anyone from TAG security hears this.

A

Okay, um I gotta move this. This is a discussion, I guess about process I. Just my idea was to come in with a proposal that everyone could shoot down. So that's fine, um so we yeah definitely shouldn't. We shouldn't constrain volunteering at this point.

A

um Creating an issue is, does do we all agree with that, like that's a good first step, so we can all. You know be aware of the work if somebody picks one up.

D

Yeah I think it makes sense already everything's in GitHub.

A

Yeah and then follow the guidance from the talk. We have to make sure that we clarify those I'll keep I'm keep working Karina. Can you help us with that? Can you be on like liaison to make sure we have those guidelines.

C

A

Yeah, that would be awesome. Maybe you could help us templatize them. Look at me delegating I.

C

Know right usually that's me I love being volunteled.

A

You know what I'm learning that I have to ask the things: I'm, not really good at that. So thank you. Thank you for uh working with me here, um yeah, okay, the last thing here is: they asked if we can finish them by end of September or so.

C

So the next sound it's probably because the next sandbox review is September 18th.

C

C

Maybe that's not the reason, just that seems coincidental.

B

A

I think Emily did kind of indicate that there's a little frustration from the folks in the queue, so we want to make them feel a little better. Yeah we and I mean definitely I feel like. Maybe this is obvious, but let me ask you all like whoever does the review? The first thing they should do is reach out to like the lead maintainers for the project and like say they're doing it and you know find out a little bit about them.

A

Does that make sense.

C

I I usually like to do my research first and then go hit up the maintainers and say this: is you know so that it's not um biased or I, don't know what the right word is right now, but.

A

I, it's interesting that you mentioned that I kind of took that for granted. But, yes, let me put that into the list. Research. The project connect with the leaders connect with the current leaders I'm just adding up the process because, like anything, we can I, don't know the more explicit it feels like in a public body where anybody might volunteer more explicitly could be the better without constraining too much.

D

Yeah um Evie, you mentioned something about you, know the tax supporting those projects and from at least what I'm. Seeing in this talk uh issue. It's only about the review right. It doesn't mention any kind of further collaboration between the tags and the project, so I think we could make it That explicit. If that's what we want to also um have as a result of this.

A

I actually think we want the opposite, like I think that that is an anti-pattern like that they just drop in for a review, and then they don't participate at all the rest of the time. I mean that is it's okay, they're probably allowed to do that, but I would love I. Would love us to encourage them to show up more and participate in the integrator conversation.

C

So maybe I missed it. Are you saying that the other tags would participate or the project themselves.

A

Object, the projects.

D

And I I'm guessing the projects are aware what how they would be reviewed like what the actual um attributes are, um that they are being reviewed on.

A

Yeah I think Karana just pays, or somebody just pasted in something about the sandbox annual review process so yeah. We probably need to read up on all that yeah.

F

I think it's, we I think it's important that we know how much of this is a tick boxing exercise and how much box ticking I always say that backwards, uh and how much of this is is more than that, because we could really impact the features of projects potentially like I'm. Looking at this- and it says, like you- have to have three members agree to sponsor like that means.

F

There have to be three people who are willing to say yes that doesn't mean that there are a certain number who said no so like is there a certain amount that we have to present to actually win people over from the talkers? The talk just looking for us to like not tell them it's a bad idea, like basically I. Don't think we don't to your point Karina like we don't want to be like power Lords like either within our own tag or within, like the sandbox environment. So we don't want to be.

F

uh In my opinion, we don't want to be more aggressively reviewing than is the standard, but we also want to make sure that we are supporting to enough of a degree that they are equally supported and successful within the sandbox as any other a project under any other tag. Right like we're trying to be equal, um at least for our first time through. Maybe we end up being leaders in the space in the future, but I think for the first time through it's sort of how do we do this?

F

To make sure that the the projects that we're with are sufficiently and equally supported?.

C

Looking at before projects, they look different enough that just looking at all four will be able to see. Also that pattern is their Community growth is there, you know, feature growth um and just from like what are. Are there any red flags, um yeah.

C

But yeah that's a great Point Abby.

A

Okay, anything else on that topic.

B

A

B

By the way, anyone can add to this.

A

Agenda uh I just put that on because it was in the meeting yesterday. um The next agenda and I was gonna. Bring up is kubecon, um I, guess I'll. Let everyone know, because this isn't a secret um I did submit a maintainer's track talk. uh We thought Justin thought that we would be able to submit for every Ouija, because the kubernetes ouijis can do that, um but they don't have that for the CNC refugees working group.

A

Sorry, um so I could only do tag out delivery, but luckily I happen to know that no other tag after Liberty talks or something that I didn't have time to write them. So we have one submitted for a a panel on uh what platform.

F

Engineering is.

B

A

What we've seen at customers right now, uh I yeah we're looking I, don't this is a public thing, so I'm going to be circumspect, but we are looking for two um end user companies like like senior technical, Architects and end user car Enterprise Architects that end user companies that you know are building platforms, have experience with platforms. I'd really like to include that too. So I.

B

Have I have I actually have.

A

A chat with somebody scheduled tomorrow at one of my end user companies. If.

B

Anyone else has.

A

A

um The next couple things are a project meeting.

A

This has been vague, um I kind of heard that they, the option, wasn't open yet and it's going to come soon, but it all trickles down to me so I, don't know if anyone's heard anything different same thing with the booth, I haven't I, don't know, I will keep you know, pinging in the chairs channels and stuff.

A

um Do we want one I assume we I think we want one I think it went well. I mean I'm I'm, slightly concerned with the macro Trend. That I see is that a lot of people aren't even coming to kubecon.

A

B

Like everyone I talk to is.

A

Like even if we have a ticket, even if anything, we can't go so that's why I'm like a little bit less sure.

B

Myself like how.

A

Much to invest here.

C

um So, when you say everyone is that more end users, or is that no.

A

It's vendors yeah, like.

B

A

We asked yeah there's a few times when I've asked people I'm like I, can get you a ticket. We want you to be on our panel and they're like well. My company isn't good support me.

C

But local people is that just for travel, I.

A

Guess you can yeah good point good point and we can keep talking about that. We did have a couple local people, we would love to have some underrepresented folks. Also um so that's been, you know, my contacts are maybe not are pretty well represented. Let's say that's been a thought too.

A

B

Yeah, that is a good suggestion.

A

You know doubling down on people in Chicago. I definitely know them.

A

Because that's our fallback plan, Abby.

A

C

Go through the same thing.

A

C

A

Mean I'm, gonna I'm gonna have to think about that because I'm gonna have to get them tickets and they aren't on the submission. Okay, but uh yeah I. Don't think about that further.

F

They're very good about ticket um transfers. So if you have people a number of people on the submission, getting that transferred I think is pretty easy. I think it's a reality of four months. Five months between things happening so.

C

Nice to know I did a transfer last year seriously took 30 seconds yeah.

A

That is a relief. Thank you. Okay,.

A

Okay, uh let's see going down a little further Ouija artifacts Alex has nominated. Everyone is just disrupt consensus. There already Ram Kumar he's the leader of zot. um He was at the meeting and he presented his candidacy on Friday.

A

um We actually had like two or three other people offered the lead suddenly, so that was interesting, but everybody basically agreed that Rahm and Alex should be in nominations to start with, there's room for another chair in the future and we're all just there to support them anyway.

A

So um I'll open the one for ROM soon this morning to get a bio tag. Chair nominations, I, keep picking, Eloise and Justin and everybody to do something about it.

B

A

Yeah I don't know.

B

F

More interested.

A

In doing the work than an idol but like yeah, it would help, but that's that is what it is, we're working on. Let's put it that way: um yeah last call for kios engineering, so good, based on them not even showing to this meeting and I ping them a billion times. It never was official anyway. I think that we can go ahead and start the process of shutting that down. I'll write that in the GitHub issue- and you know we'll do that eventually add it to the backlog which Thanksgiving um okay.

A

So that's it for me. Leave him you want to go. I, see you added some stuff there. I could turn me on mute for.

D

A bit um yeah I just wanted to give a short update on the website. So basically, last time we talked uh generally about um how we're going to work together to create this new structure that we want to do website and then kind of decided that for the first step, let's just move the current all the content that we currently have on the website into the new structure and then give each of the working groups kind of a chance to look at how they want to structure.

D

You know their information, so the pull request that is currently um shared in select that should have all the information, so that could be merged and then everything should still be there. There was there before and would open up the position for the next step, so already I'm, not quite sure who has the power to uh merge that, but I would assume maybe the shares of the techniques.

D

So, okay, maybe I'll, just think, because Alex was kind of interested in getting a bit involved. So I'm just going to Ping him again and.

B

A

It it's number 416.

D

I think so, yeah.

A

See what it's saying for right now, six, pending reviewers! This is the mess with the code owner's business, yeah.

B

A

A code owner so I can probably sign off and then they'll. Let me merge. Yeah I, don't need an approving review. Yeah.

D

Cool and then um Josh also connected me to Chris Abraham, who um set up the website for I, think all of the tags, or at least a bunch of cncf sites and um yeah. He gave me some pointers to check out some um documentation how other tags are sorting out their websites and then also they do have like a system where you could like tag things also, I think that was your suggestion Abby.

D

um So that's definitely an option and I will spend some time to figure out um how to do things technically, but then I feel like basically I would just leave the rest to each working group itself. I could create more sites for like contribution, for example, like the also this um review sandbox review, that's also something that we could put on there.

D

um So yeah I will spend some time to do that. But then also each working group should just figure out the content for themselves, and if they don't want to do it, then they don't have to right and that's pretty much it unless someone wants to discuss something else about the website and I feel like that's. uh That's enough. Okay, cool.

A

In the end, like just thinking about the website, I think one of the things we brought up was like a summary post like once a month or something that was like a newslettery kind of thing like once a month like here's, the 10 things we've worked on, here's 10 interesting articles or something obviously that's that's touchy.

A

um Do we want to do something like that.

D

Maybe I mean it could almost be some like a summary of the stuff that we discuss in meetings or the stuff that's going on on slack. That could be probably the easiest to start, because then you don't have to create new content. You just have to summarize and consolidate um yeah. That sounds like something we could do once a month doesn't sound like it's too too much work.

D

um We could try, it I mean we don't even have to commit to once a month just like.

B

D

We can just try it and see what.

B

A

D

A

I can work with you on that too. I can help Gather in the materials keep an eye on everything.

D

Sure, but also it doesn't have to be me right.

F

The way that we keep track of things during these meetings, maybe we could try and like Edge like the way we do, the tracking in these working group meetings in a way that would basically create those for us like we don't want to. We don't want to reduce the Fidelity and the value of the notes we take here, but if there's a way to somehow like create a little subsection, it's like things for the.

E

F

E

F

Happens like as we go instead of having to try and sit down every month and be like. Oh, what do we do, but.

B

F

Worst case scenario: we have these. We can refer back to at least so. That's I think really nice.

D

That's a good point, I mean even if we just look at the notes and then something maybe jumps out like oh. This is super interesting man. We can get someone to write like a couple of extra sentences and then just like put those in the newsletter, so it wouldn't have to be like every single thing that we discussed, but just like the highlights something that we feel is super valuable and that could just be like a regular blog post right as.

F

Long as it's sustainable I think that's. The biggest thing is with these things like a if it doesn't end up happening every month. It doesn't end up happening every month, but B. If we have any intention of it being consistent, it has to be something that is very easy and like just flows through.

D

Yeah, that's why I'm thinking like, let's not committal once a month, let's just um do whenever we feel like it makes sense to do it like we can aim for once a month. But if it doesn't happen, then that doesn't happen.

A

Well, based on what you just said, Abby I started emojifying lines in the notes that might be notable. So maybe.

D

Cool, oh yeah. That's that's a great idea actually.

F

Yeah and just passing that down to all the working groups right because we'd want.

B

F

Across them, so um not not every tag meeting you're able to hear from every working group like that's cool if we can, but it shouldn't be a must-have, so yeah.

A

D

Yeah I just wanted to add, like it's definitely something that we could discuss in general. Culture improve the cross. You know um collaboration between the working groups like it's really tough, to keep up with. What's going on.

A

That topic, Leanne I, know you would add. You had asked me to tell Ouija artifact on Friday about the website. Work and I forgot, I'm. Sorry.

B

A

It's still I mean it's early days for them anyway, they're trying to get lost, but I'm going to bring it. The next meeting is next Friday and next yeah next Friday, so I'll bring it up, I'll bring it up and I'll bring up like this like and we you know, tag the stuff.

D

It wouldn't even need to be a big thing like it's just literally like hey, every working group is responsible for the stuff that goes on the website themselves. So if you want something on the website think about it, if not, then just don't do it would be a shame but yeah.

A

B

A

Interest, that's that's. How I go to them too. You want more contributors, you won't be able to know what you're doing.

A

um Okay, I I think Abby. You must have added the next section. Do you want to talk about the platforms group? Yes, just.

F

A just a radiation of information- it doesn't have to be long but um as I think this this group is probably overly aware of. Is that we're working on a maturity model or something of that elk in the platform working group? It's an idea of trying to help people um concrete, make more concrete uh realizations of what of what we wrote about in the white paper. So how can they actually apply that to their lives without it getting down to the level of what projects or should people use or what tools?

F

How how should they write the code? um We decided that the everyone was pretty aligned on the intro to the model, meaning like the intention of it. It's not meant to be a ruler by which to uh hit people with or whatever, and and all these things in the intro, but the model itself like what are the aspects we're going to be asking people to think about and at what degrees do people consider do we do? We indicate a level of maturity was where a lot of conversation was being had.

F

So we had a two-hour Deep dive that people popped in and out of earlier this week on Tuesday that was really successful. I think it really. The the way that we talked about it was is any asking people to raise concerns if they were uncomfortable with the direction of travel of any of the topics. So that way we weren't we were trying very hard not to get bogged down on like. Should it be this word or that word but more like how do we feel about this kind of topic and like?

F

Where do we want to be sort of discussing this on? uh If you want to listen, it is available on video and it's a really interesting chat, I think. If you can, uh then we decided we wanted to move forward with that, some more so I booked, something in for next Thursday as a second uh attempt to go back into it.

F

The way we're going to try to run this, it's it's all experiments we'll see how it goes is that um I've opened up a Google Drive that people can drop documents into if they would like it's not a requirement to come to the event to have put a document forward, but giving people the chance to have their own personal thinking time around the model and design what would if they were in their own world, based on the feedback from that two-hour meeting and from what's already in the model, how would they design it?

F

How would they change it? What words would they use, and that way we can essentially have a gallery walkthrough of, like you know, four people put in models that we can see that all four of them have gone this direction. That shows a lot of consistency that that's where we want to go. Oh all, four look very different in this way. We need to have a conversation about like where we want to go in that way. It could absolutely blow up.

F

I had no idea, but I think that there are different types of Learners and different types of thinkers and some people think more effectively by themselves and at scale on things and I wanted to make space for that kind of thinking, without it being like a free-for-all on the on the document that is shared quite widely and already widely commented on. So that's how we're how we're doing that so um yep the event just got posted now about 10 minutes ago uh on the website on.

F

There is a link to the uh video of the last Deep dive and the Google Drive, where you can hopefully upload things. If you can't, let me know as well as there's a readme in the drive just explaining the intentions um and I hope people can come because, as Josh has said a few times, it's those conversations that are I think so the the reason to be a part of the working group, rather than just read the outputs of the working group.

F

uh It's that's the really interesting stuff, so anybody who can make it would be great and if not we'll, try and do more async stuff as well. In slack and yeah see where we get to so.

C

um You don't want to put it into the cncf calendar.

F

I was gonna talk to Josh about that, so Josh is very kindly started. Getting me set up on stuff and I was just gonna switch, which email is on that calendar before I started logging in with it, um so that is yes. That was thank you for a reminder, because that was the thing I was supposed to type ping Josh about.

F

um So yes thank.

D

You I just received an invite for that. So.

F

That would have been through, though the tag like um so there seems to be I, haven't yet sorted out what it why, uh but there seems to be like groups over here that send.

E

F

And then a calendar over here that you that does not automatically take on all of the events um and.

B

E

F

Getting a login to be able to add it to the calendar. uh But yes, that's why you would have gotten an invite so I just sent that out cool.

E

C

I wanted to join yesterday, but I feel dumb. That I didn't realize. The time was up I'm pointing at my other screen. The time was at the top of the page and I looked down in the the RSVP, and there wasn't a time now. It's just me. No, no. This is, and then I was looking in the cncf calendar, so I'm just exposing, like my workflow errors,.

F

Why that is yeah.

C

F

The last one I think made its way into that calendar. Josh I, think that was thanks to you and not and not me did.

A

It make it into the cncf calendar I.

F

Didn't know I have to.

B

Open a service desk.

A

Ticket for that, so that's.

B

F

Often don't cool so we will. We will make.

E

Sure you all service.

A

Desk access, yeah.

E

A

Cool we need to, we really need PMS, I I mean we work on platform as a product like cncf needs to offer their services as a product, and they.

F

E

That they're doing a good job.

A

There's a public meeting, we could have a PM over the CNC of calendar, I. Think and then you know asking us all how we want to iterate on it.

B

F

Cool yeah, so that was just I just wanted to radiate that information for people I, don't think, there's anything that needs to be any questions of course ask, but in the sense, if I don't expect any working to be done today, uh it's more just info.

A

That was a great meeting yesterday, I really enjoyed it. Yeah and, like you said like for us as like the benefit for me, is I, get to chat with. You know, 15 of you that are experts in this area and have so much experience and I. Take that back to my customers and everything so yeah. It's awesome. Thank you.

A

uh Yeah I think that's all on the agenda, so thank you for coming everybody, and thanks for your support and uh I hope, I'm supporting you too, and we're gonna make Cloud better for everyone together.

D

That's a nice ending. Thank you.

A

E

B

A good one, y'all bye.

E