Cloud Native Computing Foundation TAG App Delivery / Bi-Weekly, 19 May 2021

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From YouTube: CNCF TAG App Delivery 2021-05-19

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CNCF TAG App Delivery 2021-05-19

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Hello, hopefully my.

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Hey guys, uh I feel, like lawyers might forget today's meeting. I just wonder anyone want to volunteer to host.

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I'm sorry, you need someone to host.

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Yeah, I think uh elias is the host, so I feel like he might forget today's meeting right.

C

So you can't well it's recording, though right.

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I mean: are you talking about future meetings.

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No, no, just today, like I opened alliance like privately to see if, uh like, if he's coming next meeting, he usually attend the meetings, but, like he's not he's absent today, maybe he forget it or he's too busy, like with other things today. I forget this meeting.

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Well, we could just go over and last the agenda from the 21st uh get some updates and call it a day.

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Looks like the last our last meeting back on the 21st, um we had a chaos white paper that we were discussing. Carthage are you. There looks like there was a draft. I don't know if anybody got a chance to take a look at it.

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And it doesn't look like karthik has signed in, so he possibly is not around.

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There's the link to his uh white paper, I chopped off something.

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Try that again.

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Doesn't look like there's been any comments on it, but it looks like he's gotten some high level structure to it.

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Kind of interesting white paper for app delivery.

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But then we had our conveyor demo.

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And then we had an update from the get ops working group.

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Anybody from the working group- actually, I think I tried a lot. I tried to dial into the last working group meeting and maybe got cancelled, not sure. Maybe I was just too maybe I was late. I don't know, but maybe get an update. Is anybody here from the working group that can give an update.

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uh Sure not sure if there is any update, let's see what uh happened.

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uh The only thing that I can't see on the list from last time that you talked about it is that we have set up a a githubs or the working group. I set up an event committee to help help spread awareness and, and things like that, help with people's events related to get ops and obviously, as kubecon north america is coming up. You know starting to to look into what we can do there.

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So uh is there to talk about doing a get ops crown in um north america like we did and there oh, there is.

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Yeah, so so at least now we have some time to prepare.

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So last one was really really quickly put together, but uh but uh but now we have some time to prepare and there's also other people that are doing get ups uh related events that have now come to us and asked if, if we can help with certain things, so so there's there's an event committee, that's going to be uh helping helping people with their events.

C

Do we know how um you know some, I know from working with the cdf that those co-located events are they get uh kind of taken fairly quickly? uh Do.

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If we've uh identified or at least said that we wanted a slot or if we've worked, some red hat are looking at doing it again.

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I I think, the more or less all the people that are were involved with the the european one is also uh involving this one, so I think they already have established contact with the with the kubecon people and everything like that, I'm I wasn't part of that. So I'm not sure.

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Yeah, uh I think that um kubecon eu you can be a little.

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On things, but not north america.

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Yeah there they already started uh contacting people and and doing all those things, but I I think I think everything is set up there to be honest, so I I think there's gonna. At least it's gonna happen right, that's that's! The the update on that um get ups principles are still something that has discussed there is the pr I'm guessing. That's the same prs.

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Let's just check.

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uh So robot uh just one question: yeah like what, when people talking about githubs, are they talking about a whole cicd, not.

D

Let's call it the method of of uh doing operations through gets so so in the the vagus sense possible, uh which is why the githubs principles are something that we're trying to establish right. That kind of says what does actually get ups me so so yeah, obviously there's there's a lot of things related to flux and argo cd and things like that. But there's also uh there's also like how should you? How should you deal with your your infrastructure and application?

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So it doesn't really matter if it's application or or infrastructure, it's just the fact that you should operate through git, and these are the principles that are are controlling that and when you should do what, if that makes sense.

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Yeah totally thanks yeah.

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uh Yes, yes, the pr that's been linked is the same. The pr which is now closed. um I think everything was battle out there. um There there's also one there's, also a pr in the open getups. uh Let's see open, githubs.

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See if I can find it.

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So a a pr for for actual first draft of the principles, so everything that we've done in the working group put together and then under the banner of.

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Getups, which is the project that this will result in and uh there's a little back and forth on spelling and things like that, so we're taking our time with it.

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But I I I I would I would expect that the at least like 0.1 version of the principles to be released pretty soon uh all the art stuff has been battled through.

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And other than that, I'm not sure if there is any updates from the get off working group.

C

There was a note sometime back in february about um the landscape and it said still on hold what what were you guys working on with the with the landscape? Were you looking at doing some? uh Maybe integration with the cdf landscape on app delivery? um Is there was there a topic.

D

Yeah no well, it's it's! uh It's been. It's been talked about right about it. We haven't started working on that due to the fact that we are still kind of trying to get those. The principles are the idea. The number one priority uh and.

C

um About the landscape for github's principles, I mean well it that that question was just a general one back in february it just. There was just a note that said: landscape on hold.

D

Oh yeah: well, it's the it's! The get ops landscape, I'm not sure if it's going to be a landscape or like a map or a radar or whatever, whatever word you want to use for it, but but in some sense at some point, there's gonna be more uh more things uh created around the different tooling and uh on and how to implement things and that might be in a landscape or or map or radar type uh capacity.

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But uh but everything is everything is related to. That is, is very much on hold as where the main priority has been the github's principles as soon as 0.1 version of the ghettos principles are out, we probably would would uh have smaller updates, but you know this is the one big one that where everything is kind of like uh that is the basis for everything right. So so it's been going back and forth.

D

We had a weekly meetings uh related to the get us principal, so we we really just haven't had time to do anything other than that and with kubecon and etc.

C

Interesting, I'm wondering if the um the existing landscape should have like in the cdf. Maybe we should be adding a get ups um square.

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Yeah, it would be interesting if you had like a filter thing like uh this is get ups, and then you just get the get ups related things, but but I'm not sure what people have planned uh in regards to to that, in particular,.

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I'll bring it up to the um I'll, bring it up to the cdf toc.

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It's not a big.

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We could at least add you, know, flex and argo in there.

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Victor, do you have any thoughts on adding having uh something like a a get ups segment on the cdf landscape to include uh like to put flux in there.

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Not yet I just joined for the first time, so uh I'm not uh I'm not up to date. I know nothing uh but yes, yes, so I'm pretty sure that I will have some thoughts about github. So just I'm just not I'm not sure. What's.

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Do you know where flux shows up in the cncf um landscape.

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Where I'm not sure where I know it's there, though,.

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Yeah, it's such a big.

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Too hard to look through.

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To be honest, I I stopped looking through it. I I think it's madness.

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It is madness, but the cdf's, not the landscape, is still pretty small, so we could probably.

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It there better to see to start building something like that out and that's why I can ask the um the toc if they would be interested in doing it's, not a big deal. To add that stuff.

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Right now there is like there is this in this serverless. You know tab there and you kind of get things related to that. uh There shouldn't be an issue being able being able to do that with other things uh uh which obviously uh get upset. It's there's a lot of products that can be looked at as a git ups product, but uh this is why we're getting the principles down.

C

Exactly I'm thinking about at least the the primary um some of the primary operators right rancher has one.

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Yeah rancher as well and then there's argo cd and flux.

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Yeah and keep in mind that in these landscapes there is a rule that you can't put your you can't put your logo into the landscape in multiple locations. So let's say: if you're not truly a git ops, you know, if you know, let's say you do something around um interfacing with get ops an operator, I don't know, maybe grabbing information out of the repository and tracking it something of that sort. um Unless that was going to be they wanted that to be your primary focus, you would, and you had your logo in another category.

C

You wouldn't be able to put it in two places, but something like argo and flux, they're right now in continuous integration and delivery um in the cdf in this cncf, which makes sense but the cdf. Now, if you go down to the bottom corner, it has everything in that category expanded out, but we don't have in that. If you look at that, we don't have a get ops um square.

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So I'm thinking, maybe I bring that up and we at least the cdf uh put in a get up square where flux and argo would show up.

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Yeah just important.

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When you say argo, you need to be more specific. There are four projects over there, so I guess you're.

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Talking about targo city.

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Cd, yes yeah, we would pull our the argo cd logo in there. I'm not sure what the other projects are. That argo are working on. I don't know if they all are in the get offs area or if they're in different areas.

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No, so argo workflows is effectively pipelines or ci cd or whatever somebody calls pipelines these days and rollouts is progressive delivery.

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Right so they'd have to decide if they wanted to be represented in the get-off square or if they wanted to be put in kind of the pipeline orchestration square. I guess.

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But those are four basically independent projects. I mean there is a connection between them, but there are many separate.

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Separate repositories, so I guess it would be fair to say that they're just managed under one organization right but four projects, so argo workflows can be pipelines. File I'll, go see these githubs right.

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Yeah the way this works, so if you you you're gonna get you're gonna get uh you have to put a primary one in. You can't have multiple, but.

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But is it primary pair organization or per project.

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Primary pro organization.

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Okay, okay, so that would mean that rancher, for example, which has like, oh, let's say, hashicorp, which gets like seven, eight nine. Nobody knows how many projects they would still pick. One.

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They'd have to pick their primary.

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Yeah, can you imagine if everybody had multiple ones, how big the cd cncf landscape would be no.

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I understand that, but you know kind of bigger, bigger organizations that have like tens of projects.

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Think about ibm or anybody like that they've got tons of stuff out there. They just.

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To pick their primary.

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But but in any case uh we we basically just have put a pin in it. uh For now, uh we have several other ideas of uh of things that will come out of the githubs working group or will be part of the open, get ups project, uh all the all everything depending so uh for now we just we just you know been focusing on the principles and we had the events that have been uh a lot of work.

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So that's that's why things have been moving forward on the only landscape or radar or map or whatever you want people to call it at the end.

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Okay, I'll bring it up to the um at least over on that side. So at least maybe we can start talking about having an actual an actual.

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For starting to gather tooling around the get-off space for those.

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We want to be focused on get-offs.

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And then, looking through the.

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I don't think there's nothing really that we haven't touched on at least.

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So did anybody um make it to the to get up con it? It was on for a while. It was kind of fun. I I like the way it was done.

D

Let's set my chaos in the back end, but you know that's that's how events work it didn't feel like it on the front end. Oh good, fine, yeah, everything.

C

Seemed totally fine, I was on vacation, so I was like hanging out by a pool and I had to run in and check what time it was. I knew if I was on or not, um but uh I watched some of the sessions and I thought it I I thought the uh the general format of how it was put together was.

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It was fine yeah.

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We got we got a lot of good uh uh caps and and it's kind of hard to choose things, but but I think I think we chose the right ones and uh so looking forward to seeing what north america will bring of uh when it comes to cfps.

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And I'm looking forward to doing it in person instead.

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I am too, I am too, it will.

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Be a hug I wish I wish I could, but you know I'm in norway, so that's gonna be a long way to walk.

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That is a problem right. You know I have I it seems. I have learned that, um while virtual events have its drawbacks in terms of handshaking man, it has really democratized the education around what we normally do at conferences. I mean in our open.

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Community we've been really working hard to build a diverse community, so we have people in pakistan. We have people in south um in cape town. We have some women in nigeria and I promise you they're never going to be able to go to a an in-person event like the person from cape town he's like just to get. There would be seven grand.

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And there's just no way there that he could afford it or an employer would pay for it.

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uh Now I live in capital in orbit, but as someone who lived in the far north in the arctic uh just going down south in norway for conferences or was expensive enough, so you know going to a different continent. Yeah that's uh gonna be hard, but uh we'll see when everything opens. Maybe yeah.

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I'm sort of hoping on some of these uh bigger conferences when we, when we have the option to do co-located events, especially around topics that really need um education, like you know uh that we can continue doing it's some kind of a hybrid.

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Yeah, I regret.

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All right, everybody, I guess that's uh 30 minutes, I've got another call. I have to drop off to do hope. Everybody is well- and I guess our next call is in two weeks.

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Sure cool bins thanks joe thank you.

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