Cloud Native Computing Foundation TAG App Delivery / Chaos Engineer WG, 30 Jul 2021

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: Cloud-Native Chaos Engineering WG Weekly Sync Up - July 30 2021 | CNCF TAG App Delivery

Description

Check out the recording from the Cloud Native Chaos Engineering Working Group Weekly Sync Up from July 30th, 2021

For more information check out the WG Charter: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1scr9uuvG1g1xpIHPs3314FqeFufE31ustTVnRMrX3gI/edit?usp=sharing

A

We just wait for a few more minutes.

B

Maybe we need to wait for other members to join this movie.

A

B

I think when we start this meeting, we need we need to send some message on our slack. Maybe we can uh allow some some members to join our meeting. Maybe some people's uh uh you're gonna listen sometimes.

A

Yeah just post a poster message.

A

A

Hi, I'm mila good morning.

B

Hey morning, cardig.

A

um Not sure how many folks are going to join us today and I did see a message a couple of a few days back asking if there was a meeting from arakana and uh scientific respondents for today. So we'll just wait for another two three minutes and then we'll get started and we can share some updates.

B

B

I think maybe no one want to join uh can join this meeting if we have some important things and we can study this or just deny this medium to next week, yeah, I think that's a good idea.

A

Let me share some very quick updates.

A

Meeting with that, yeah.

B

Yeah, I think you you, may you can remind us and the members and before this meeting and that and people uh before they stand.

B

A

B

Yeah, maybe some some members, uh you know this meeting, you can remind us before our meeting and uh in turkey we will start this meeting and uh what we need to discuss and and collect some some somewhat to this discuss and uh other things. Maybe this is great.

A

All right um yeah, I think what we're saying is we can publish the agenda prior and that we remind people that these are the items that we can speak about.

A

Okay, yeah, we can do that. That's a good thought.

A

Let me share my screen and share some updates.

A

Very few updates. Actually stream.

A

B

A

Time we wanted to identify the repository where we put details, and we also saw that there was a repository from the previous workgroup effort that was there, and we also wanted to upload our meetings onto youtube. So we wanted uh some steps on how to do that mailing list. I think a mailing list would be very helpful and circumstances like this, where we are able to provide all the details of what we've discussed or remind folks, etc.

A

So, thanks amelia for identifying that this needs service desk request, I just did create one for all three. I think in the same request, I have placed the requirement for the mailing list youtube upload steps as well as the git repository.

A

I can go ahead and share that with you and we will act based on what we get there. The other point that we discussed last time about a sample example for placing the experiments.

B

A

We had a couple of options: potato head was thought of, or was discussed as one of the examples, and I saw some votes in the team on possibly using that there is a branch of potato head which probably is better suited to our requirements, connect services and it has the application comprising several parts, and I did see in the enablement group that some of these parts are also being converted into stateful components, so that also gives a notion of completeness to the service type for the microservices application type.

A

So I think that is something that's useful to us. I just wanted to hear opinions on what you think about this, or if you have any other choices that you would like for us to use. There is no restriction on using different applications for showing different kinds of scenarios. It in fact might be needed as well, but for describing the general journey of chaos engineering.

A

If we can stick to one application for most of the scenarios, it could be consistent and more understandable for a beginner.

A

So do take a look at this launch of what it is and that, if you feel this, something that you can add there, uh we were basically trying to contribute this.

A

Some folks from witness have been looking at proving the profile of the application.

A

So if you have any requirements that would make it a more suitable candidate for demonstrating the experiments and creating our scenarios, please feed me today's some issues here or, if please feel free to write some prc here. So I think that would be helpful.

A

um Apart from that, um there was also a an item that we discussed last time about a dictionary or a glossary of chaos. Engineering terms, that's common, and um there is something here that I just put together, which I felt was most common um by going through different.

A

Documentation of material that's available around chaos, engineering at least the most repeated ones. There might be a lot of missing ones here, so I would just like to attach that and we can take a look at what's missing and add those technologies with some explanation.

A

The other point that we wanted to discuss last time was the topics that.

A

Could be segregated into the various tags, so there could be some asynchronous development of content.

A

Do you have any thoughts about that? All right, shanghai.

A

And we have the charter here in which we are basically discussing some common items, but he has engineering but there's also different tracks participating with their own goals within their own perspectives within the overall goals.

A

So, do you think that there are some areas that can be split based on the tag for us to develop on this charter? Further.

B

Oh okay, um guys.

A

Security aspect, um so security chaos is uh something that we would want to add exactly what would be addressing there and what is the motive or the interest from the security or the tax security?

A

If we can elaborate that within the charter, that would probably be helpful um on similar lines we have. I just wanted to check if there's something as representative from the tag network, that you would like to add so one of the items um from witness basically coming from um delivery affiliation, I thought would be around integration of chaos into continuous delivery process. I think which I think is very.

A

Much very much which, which is a topic that is often discussed in update so about how people can leverage chaos in continuous integration, and today's delivery is something that is information that we could start filling in. um Similarly, is that something is there some area that you would like to focus on?

A

That was the question you can keep it open. um I think that would sort of accelerate the creation of content is unthought.

A

um So let me just note that here.

B

A

Yeah, all right, so that's uh something you can get more.

A

uh That's all I had in terms of discussion for items this year is a good candidate for us which are not so quick deliverable. So if you feel there is something missing here,.

A

A

A

Please be able to add here and put out your feedback on what you think is a good reference app and maybe even things that are missing.

A

So that we can add that.

A

um We need reminders, I think, that's. The first thing we discussed so.

A

I think there are some activities. I've seen that on some channels, not sure.

A

There's something that we could do on cncf slack, but we have the permission to do that emilia. Is this something that you would like to explore.

A

A

That's all I have is there anything that you would like to share.

A

Okay, I think simon uma also.

B

There was a reminder needed we might have got. um I see also join.

A

Anyway, I think we just discussed setting up some slack reminders and we will see if we can do that on cncf workspace, okay, yeah and I think the item- that's a quick possible deliverable is the dictionary and we have some terms already identified.

A

Yeah, I think google group is good. um We've just created a service desk request for mailing list.

A

I see some other work groups have that same, so we've created a service desk request for the steps to upload to youtube, or maybe if someone else can share the cloud recordings with them and they will have access to it so that they can go ahead and upload our uh we create ourselves uh similarly made english negative repository within cncf organizations. What we've requested for I'll keep the meeting notes updated on the response that we get and probably go ahead and transfer all these details into the repository we get it.

A

So we have some list from the dictionary, the most common ones. Of course, the there's a host of information about. We are standing on the net, there's a huge amount of words there. I have tried to put out what is most common and what I felt is a good relevant subset of terms.

A

um So there are the meeting notes, please feel free to take a look and expand it with uh what about what are the other items? You'd like include there?

A

We could uh sort of keep it short, the descriptions as well or maybe provide reference links uh to those terms where they have been explained to the on wikipedia or even somewhere else, without having to spend too much time trying to document that.

A

So I think that's one thing we can create and then add to our charter document. I see other working groups and tags creating a list of terms that they use in their standard day-to-day discussions within the time.

A

I think that will be helpful and a good beginning for people coming and looking at the curious engineering or group items or documents to understand better.

B

The survey, I think, that's.

A

Something I did not cover in the agenda, but um thanks a sign for advocating the survey more. I think we have received some additional responses since last time, um so that is good progress, so maybe we have about eight more. I think responses that we got so we have around 37 responses right now and.

A

We could start inviting folks to come present about their chaos journeys. One of the goals of the charter was to get people come and talk about how they are tackling chaos, engineering challenges for a cloud native environment.

A

I think we can kick start that while we continue to evolve our charter and the white paper, of course anyways. This is one of the codes or one of the working model items.

A

So if there's anyone that you know who would like to come present about their chaos journey on the cncf working group, I think we can get started with a process.

A

From a timing perspective, I feel that the eu est sort of timing works well for demonstrations, but that's not to say we cannot have uh demos in this meeting. I think people comfortable with this time so can definitely go forward and do that a little bit more content and meaning to our virgo sync ups.

A

So let me go ahead and add that item on the meeting minutes so.

A

So we will be to sort of invite people to come. Speak.

A

um So if you feel then there's some inadequate representation of some area or there's some questions that you should add, please go ahead. I think the survey can be kept. Live has been the meaning of it and more more questions can be added as we go away. Any response that we get to those questions is beneficial and I don't.

A

I don't think it will be feasible for us to sort of go back to our existing respondents and ask them to answer the new questions, but we will still get at least some response from the newer ones who are taking the survey freshly, which is anyways good.

A

So if there are questions, please feel free to add them. I hope the survey detail is available on our charter, I'm just linking it on the meeting notes as well.

A

I hope uh mila and some of the others have the access to this. So please feel free.

A

um So we discussed about some content that were that you can start adding when I say, content more in terms of challenges and questions to get more subtopics that we can address in the white paper around areas that are specific to our tag.

A

um So from tag delivery point of view, chaos within cicd is quite relevant, an important topic, so we could add some content there. Similarly, for other tanks had some perspectives on securities, so we can drill down on exactly what those questions are, what those challenges are. So we can talk about that in a little bit more detail makes it simpler to write content if it's too open in it or broad, would be very difficult to generate data content there.

A

From that point of view, if there is something on end users.

A

Perspective topics that we need to have, which is not already there, then feel free to list that just uh put the same here as an inducer representative. So you can uh sort of feel free to suggest topics there for the chart, and then we can add that.

A

There are some chat messages.

A

A

All right, that's great yeah put it ahead. We just spoke about uh microservices branch yeah, so we can start thinking about that.

A

All right, I think that's all. I have please feel free to take a look at the dictionary. um While this will be kept live. It would be good to sort of um publish this on the slack channel once.

A

Or probably almost distributed amongst your users or just popularize it a little bit more. So we know uh that this is what kia's engineering world speaks about and there's nothing missing.

A

So I think that's all we have in terms of agenda because also, I think, shengman had a good point uh earlier in this meeting.

A

I think slacker michaels are good, but um you can also have the agenda pre-published and identify a goal for um particular sync of meeting. So what are we going to? What are the takeaways or what the plan to take aways for this particular sync up.

A

That's a good thought and we'll try to follow that from the next one, and also probably pole or query for what you think we shouldn't discuss and we should achieve as a group during that particular group.

B

So I'll try and see how we can.

A

Do that in an automated fashion,.

A

If not taking the first operator a day or two prior so here we will try to try and form some process around. It.

A

Cool um thanks everyone. If there are no more thoughts, I think we'll break.

B

uh Actually, I have a quick question. I'm just wondering: how long are we keeping the survey and the possible um the dictionary thing going to like I'm just wondering if there's a specific timeline for this working group to continue.

A

Yeah and the group's uh goal at this point is the white paper yeah, the white paper um is going to be derived based on services number one and number two learning from my users upon their presentations.

A

So I think uh the survey as of today has been active for about a couple of months now. I think.

B

A

And we could probably give it a little bit more time.

A

I think we have some amplification efforts that is being done by sayam and others, so we could keep it open, in my opinion, at least for until the subsequent one, the north america, one which is by which time I would think that we would like to sort of achieve the goal of the end goal of the working group. So this possibility of somebody going out there. Maybe they take the tags or the general update about you, know chaos, engineering.

A

It was basically talked about as an important thing in the previous editions of kubecon as a trending topic. So by the time the next one comes around. If we could have some more knowledge about it and it can be brought up in some fashion there, that would be a big win.

A

So we could keep the working group going, at least until then is what I see, and we probably need to have the white paper out before that, so between them to now as much as we can learn from the community and incorporate it the better.

A

I think, with the information that we already have, we can start asynchronously putting some information, but we can just keep the survey open and keep amplifying it um until that period when the white paper is sort of pushed off and committed into the master branch of the git repository, which will be so that that's one way of looking at it mira- and I, like I said, I'm also okay, to add more questions there and have responses. Any information that we get is good.

A

So we can keep that open and also the dictionary is sort of a live thing, but um there would be a cutoff date for the dictionary to be taken out in public. When I say public, um we might put it on this lecture and tweet about it.

A

You could start using it within the projects, documentation to say if you are learning about chaos. Engineering. This is one of the resources and people are linked to the dictionary uh to that end by uh by the time we are ready to do that. I think um it should be fairly comprehensive is what I feel and for that we could sort of put a cutoff date.

A

um I'm open to opinions on that when that should be. I would assume something like um the next working group meeting that we can have with the eu folks. I did not get enough um responses, unfortunately, on what's a good time to me, trying to finalize that, but with one more meeting from our side, we just introduced the dictionary document today, so we'll give some times time to ourselves to go ahead and add. If you feel something is missing, then take it to the other group so that there are other stakeholders.

A

You can take a look at it.

A

So if you factor that in um that would mean around the next couple of weeks, so that we get a chance to meet them and us once again to say lecture is good now to go ahead and sort of take it to the public and then, from that point on, we might get opinions on what to add and probably want to remove or what improve. In terms of definitions.

A

I think that would, uh from that point onwards be in the public domain, and maybe I hope we get a repository by then we can start linking our project documentation, or rather we link to the link to the dictionary from our own project, documentation or resources.

A

Does that sound? uh Okay to you.

B

Yeah, that sounds great.

A

Okay, just uh it's a good question, so let me note that in limiting box I'll do that and I'll share it on the snapchat yeah.

A

All right thanks.

B

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.