Cloud Native Computing Foundation TAG Observability, 2 May 2023

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From YouTube: 2023-05-02 CNCF TAG Observability Meeting

Description

## Kubecon EU O11y TAG session;
* Lots of interest on the common query language working group
WG: weekly; 1 hour; timezone
* Talk videos are now available on CNCF YT

## TOC update from May 2
* Project Community Health - TOC requested TAG O11y open up an issue to discuss

## Query Language WG discussion, next steps
* Topics: ML Observability (MLOps), Business benefits, ROI of observability tools, data to communicate to management, Cost Management, Real-life use cases of tracing platforms and best practices, OpenTelemetry for tracing - running it at scale, tracing data stores, O11y services - who is responsible for o11y in an org, is that a shared responsibility model; O11y pipelines and stacks - how folks are choosing their stacks; selection criteria vs. implementation; Discoverability of issues using tracing and metrics for root causing issues - what are best practices, use-cases; Data Protection considerations for o11y data - especially EU - both what are rules applied to o11y data and how is this done technically;

## Kubecon NA Chicago CFP is now open.
* CFP Closes: Sunday, June 18 at 11:59pm Central Daylight Time (UTC-6)
* CFP Notifications: Monday, August 28
* Schedule Announcement: Wednesday, August 30
* Slide upload deadline to Sched.com: Wednesday, November 1
* Event Date: November 6-10, 2023

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Alolita sharma: hi, oliver!, hi! chris!.

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Alolita sharma: thanks for joining in., but.

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Alolita sharma: and it's made for a few minutes.

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Alolita sharma:, I'm just gonna ask., just go and ask folks to join in also on our tag. Panel.

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Vijay samuel: hello!.

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Alolita sharma: hello!, hi! everyone!.

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Vijay samuel: good! good!. How are you?.

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Vijay samuel: very good., just dropping my head at school and getting home.. That's good., that's good.!.

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Alolita sharma: and we are just waiting for a couple of more minutes to for folks to join,, and then we can get started.

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Alolita sharma:, we had a few items., so if there are other items again.

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Alolita sharma: this,, please.

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Alolita sharma: feel free to add them in.. I can share the link to the doc.

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Alolita sharma: all right. We have, chris, too. hi, chris.

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Alolita sharma: good morning.. How are you?.

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Chris larsen: I'm awake. alolita sharma:, that's the meeting you here? yeah, no.

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Alolita sharma:, it was actually pretty nice to meet folks in person and at cubecon.. So I think that that was super exciting.

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Alolita sharma:: we have a lot of good good discussions, callway discussions as well as talk,, so.

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Alolita sharma:, I think it's always nice to kind of have.

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Alolita sharma:, you know the the positive overload after you know, being immersed in.

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Alolita sharma: in lots of technical talks and alolita sharma: and discussions at that in in real life on in conferences.. So.

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Alolita sharma:, I think there are also the I was just saying that cnc. f. has started posting all the videos of the talk sessions.. So those are now available on the youtube channel.

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Alolita sharma: for.

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Alolita sharma: for cube.

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Alolita sharma: all right.. Let me just share. We can get started again.. We have a few topics. Again. folks, please feel free to add.. I can share the over.

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Alolita sharma: for doc on a screen.

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Alolita sharma: again.. I think some of the areas that we just wanted to cover again. this meeting is.

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Alolita sharma: he observed, the cncs code of conduct.. So please.

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Alolita sharma: take a look at it. if you haven't already with that said: again. just wanted to.. I had a few items on the list,, but again would love to have encourage anybody else. if you have any questions, or any comments or any.

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Alolita sharma: discussion items that you would like to see.

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Alolita sharma:, you know., please, please feel free to mention.

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Alolita sharma:, I think we can get started with the cube on eu.

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Alolita sharma: sessions., we had a tag update session where actually chris larsen was also.

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Alolita sharma: attending in person., so I invited him and we both co-presented on the on,, not only giving a tag update, but also.

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Alolita sharma: being able to deep dive and address a lot of the questions and interest that folks had around the common query, language, spec work group.

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Alolita sharma: and the alolita sharma: chris,. Do you want to give a quick update on some of the questions that you know folks, had, and.

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Alolita sharma: the excitement. It was a pretty full house.

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Chris larsen: yeah.

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Chris larsen:, it's only quite.

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Alolita sharma:, I think there is some kind of an echo, chris.

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Chris larsen:, maybe alolita sharma:, it might be because your microphone might be.

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Alolita sharma: no worries., I mean,. Maybe you can increase the volume.

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Chris larsen: yeah, it was chris larsen: good.. There are a couple of questions. how they could.

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Chris larsen: so process.

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Chris larsen: for.

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Chris larsen: chatting with other people.

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Those there chris larsen: advice about.

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Chris larsen: politics.

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Others with that.

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Alolita sharma: yes, yes,, so I think you know, just to chris is being modest here,, but there were a lot of end users also from the european community who were.

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Alolita sharma: super interested.. We had quite a full house at the you session. and again there was a fair bit of discussion. Around, you know, pros and cons of defining a.

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Alolita sharma: common query: language. what the used cases are, you know.. Why would somebody need it versus start?? So that's a debate or discussion,, which is all good and very healthy,, for you know the work group to actually start off on. and we all have had these discussions, you know, in different.

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Alolita sharma: groups and teams over time, alolita sharma: so super exciting to see that energy., there are a lot of engineers from different vendors also who are working on different open source projects.

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Alolita sharma:, who are interested in participating, alolita, sharma:, red hat,, google and the others from my life step and other observability vendors have been pretty involved. so.

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Alolita sharma: good to see that energy. and I think, as chris mentioned,. We are waiting for the to to review our request for.

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Alolita sharma: the official starting of a kick. Starting of a work group.-.

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Alolita sharma:, I think chris and vijay, we might want to actually.

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Tony o: follow up with the alolita sharma: t orc liaison,, so that we can. you know, kind of make sure that this is on their radar, and we get that signed. Off?.

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Tony o: did you speak with one of the poc liaison's by any chance, or on on slack or otherwise?.

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Alolita sharma: not yet.

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Chris larsen: not yet., but I did see that.

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Yeah. chris larsen:, or they.

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Chris larsen: yes.

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alolita sharma:- maybe maybe we should.- did she tag them?.

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Alolita sharma: okay,, okay,, super: super., so hopefully ping this cross,. This will get.

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Alolita sharma: signed off this week, and then we can actually start towards having,. You know, an actual work group.

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Alolita sharma:, going from there again. chris and v. j. and others.. Did you have a timeline that you wanted to?? That is what is the cadence of which you want to kind of run. The group discussions on? is it.. Are you thinking weekly or bi-weekly?? What what works for you.

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Chris larsen:, I think just weekly.

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Be fine. chris larsen: okay.

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Lot of with it alolita sharma:, maybe a weekly hour or a weekly.

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Alolita sharma: 45 min.

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Chris larsen:, you know, weekly, probably an hour. okay.

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Alolita sharma: yeah., I mean, because again,. I think it's good to kind of have that in mind as we set this up.

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Alolita sharma: and also, considering, you know, some of the logistics, such as should we do it on an eu-friendly, time.

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Alolita sharma: or alternate between eu and apec., it depends on,. You know the interest,, because I think there was some.

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Alolita sharma: end users from apec, also who were interested in this.. Again there was some discussion.

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Alolita sharma:, so we might consider.

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Alolita sharma: rotating that., but again,. These are just considerations on time, zone, etc., for participation.

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Chris larsen: and it's like one of the.

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Chris larsen: from shanghai. I know the cfp. is out.

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Alolita sharma:: we should find out the for sure.

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Alolita sharma: any any of folks here who are planning to attend again.

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Alolita sharma:, it's too early, I think, to tell,, because it's september. and then the other thing really is that you know chicago is right around the corner after that in november.. So it's it's, I I. I think it might be a bit too hectic to go back to back on the.

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Alolita sharma: these conferences,, so I I think one of the things we might want to aspire to.

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Alolita sharma:, as we kick, start, the working group and kind of deep dive into this area to perhaps, you know, have some, you know, components.

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Alolita sharma: that we want to accomplish on the working group similar to the k test of the.

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Alolita sharma: working group that we have had over time to be able to, you know,, discuss that and leverage the chicago meeting.

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Alolita sharma: right so again, with, was thinking about and going from there.

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Alolita sharma:. I also wanted to call out that the in the in the cubecon eu discussions, the project meetings again. there was a.

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Alolita sharma: for those of you who may have attended it or not,. I think, that it was recorded,, but I'm not sure. I'll definitely share a link for open telemetry project meeting,, which is always,. You know, pretty well attended.,.

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Alolita sharma: there was some discussion around the query: language, working group, and quite a lot of interest., so again,, it's great to see that.

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Alolita sharma: different project communities are, you know, super interested.

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Alolita sharma: in working towards this, this goal, and there's a lot of expectations.. So no pressure.

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Alolita sharma: all right, other than that anybody else had any comments on cube on you sort of discussions.. I think all that videos will be out if they are already posted. actually.

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Alolita sharma: so, I'll share the links as we get them.

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Tony o: any questions., alolita sharma: comments?.

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Alolita sharma: all right,, let's go on there. alolita sharma:. We also had a quick, just as this is just again just reporting.. We also had a toc update earlier this morning.

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Alolita sharma: a couple of areas that did come up that we gave an update on.. I provided an update on, of course, the queue eu sessions and the query,. Language,. Working group.-.

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Alolita sharma: and that's where you know.. We were kind of told that the t. orc. is working. on reviewing the request and approving it.. But there was also another area that it was brought up,, which was the.

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Alolita sharma: discussion around observability, projects, project communities, and community health.

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Alolita sharma: and as many of you. who are, you know, who've, been involved in the projects, as well as the space.

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Alolita sharma: over time again,, especially in the observability space., there's a lot of change. Happening.. There are projects that you know. again, maintainers, who have been working on the projects, long term.

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Alolita sharma: decide to take a break or go do some other things. and and so project metrics was health. Community metrics was an area that was discussed in the.

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Alolita sharma: and I will open up an issue. if you have,, you know any comments on specific projects that you are working on.

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Alolita sharma: please, please,, you know,, feel free to alolita sharma:, discuss on that issue.

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Alolita sharma: the to yourc. did request.. We open up an issue, requested.

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Alolita sharma: tag, or you open up an issue.

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Alolita sharma: to discuss right and and the tag contributor, strategy.

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Alolita sharma: folks, who are actually have some guidance on this., we're also interested in participating.. So just fyi,, that's something that you know again.

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Alolita sharma: would be useful for us. given.. We have some really large projects, you know,, which are used in the industry, and end users to the area very widely.

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Alolita sharma: and I have continued to see some degradation in.

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Alolita sharma: maintainer availability and maintainer contribution.

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Alolita sharma: oliver, did you have a comment?.

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Oliver edelmann: no. to just,, not it loudly.,.

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Alolita sharma: yeah. totally. so again would love to you. Know. get feedback on.. What are some of the metrics that you consider are useful for being able to. of course, number and diversity of organizations,, but also supporting our maintainer is better on the projects.

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Alolita sharma:: these are all issues that you know. effect all projects over time. and it's it's always.

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Alolita sharma: you know, being able to be aware of that, as the first step to actually being able to support the projects themselves.. I think that's all I had in terms of updates. good folks have other questions, chris,. Did you want to discuss or vjay any areas on the.

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Alolita sharma:, query: language?. What would you do?? You have a blueprint in mind on what you would like to kind of kick. start the discussions with.

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Chris larsen: yeah,, I didn't have too much of that.. I think the initial on it is that we.

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chris larsen: get everybody on board and start chris larsen: reaching out there.. I take it chris larsen: the analysis chris larsen: for the time.

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Chris larsen:, reaching out to those end user groups, chris larsen: document.

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To get that chris larsen: tech.

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chris larsen: and then chris larsen: we've already got some good contacts.

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Chris larsen: about.

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Chris larsen: at a.

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Chris larsen:, the prometheus. okay.

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Chris larsen: first steps to would be to draft some of.

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Alolita sharma: cool, cool, cool!. That's that's a that's a good start,, because I think that there are a lot of folks, as you said, who are interested,, and I think that we we had discussed on the dock itself.

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Alolita sharma: that we wanted to kind of have some templates available.

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Alolita sharma: for folks to be able to kind of.

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Alolita sharma: we in there., you know what work, what we should collect in terms of data and feedback, and and then being able to automate that to share it. With.

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Alolita sharma:, you know, end users through different project communities, as well as through the tag and other tags,. If you will,, because one of the interesting areas. for example, just you know an allied area which is tag sustainability, as some of you, you know,, who may have attended the tag. Meeting today, as well as you know,, follow those the other tags.

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Alolita sharma: there is a fair bit of intersection with some of the observability projects being used to measure, you know, metrics, and success for.

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Alolita sharma: sustainability projects.. So there are end users who actually overlap in some of these areas who actually could provide.

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Alolita sharma: some pretty interesting feedback on., you know what what a query language, or you know, would look like for them., and what do they use the most in terms of feature sets as well as a specific complexity in.

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Alolita sharma: the type of data that they are correlating or joining.

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Chris larsen: yeah,, it sounds like they'd have a pretty.

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Alolita sharma: yeah, yeah. chris larsen: yeah, they're alolita sharma: yeah.. I saw, you know,, like they were talking about the different.

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Alolita sharma: areas where they kept calling on observability. and I was like, okay,. Maybe you know, there some areas we can leverage into,, but lots of interest from also european community users,, which is very exciting.

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Alolita sharma: anything else that folks had questions on.. What are some of the projects that you're interested in.

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Alolita sharma: to see talks on?, I'm definitely, very interested in getting your feedback.

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Alolita sharma: are there specific areas that.

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Alolita sharma:, you know we can kind of reach out to., I'm happy to reach out to folks and.

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Alolita sharma: get them in to come and present.

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Alolita sharma:, maybe we can just off the top of your heads.. There are some areas that are of burning interest to you. huh!. Please, please, share.

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Chris larsen: for me. personally,, I know you're working,, but ml: space kind of interested.

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We're spinning up a.

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Alolita sharma: yes, it is.

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Alolita sharma: yes,, definitely alolita sharma:, the totally totally. I mean that's a very good. in fact,. That's a very good area to.

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Alolita sharma:, which is evolving very quickly because of,, you know, just ml. ops. in an in general.

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Alolita sharma: an observability needed in that space., but also, you know, as the related area of lms and other.. You know, larger.

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Alolita sharma: language models, develops. again, model observability, is a key area that is also of interest or or evolving very quickly.. So there are a whole bunch of tools and tool chains that are developing.

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Alolita sharma: and also best practices that are taken from observability that might be worth bring into so good good suggestion.

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Alolita sharma: oliver, I'll just go around the the team.

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Oliver edelmann: yeah,, I I'm actually coming from a end. user and so.. Of course, I'm interested in everything that helps me to.

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Oliver edelmann: get, manage, or explain the management.. What is the the business benefit?? What is it?, what is the return of it, and of.

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Oliver edelmann: invest, of observability., because I mean, you know, observability costs a lot of money, and, of course, we need to justify why we do that from a technical perspective. That's no no question for me,, but.

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Oliver edelmann: from a management perspective,, it's it's for me., it's difficult.

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Oliver edelmann: to get the right points.

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Alolita sharma: do you?. Do you mean management from a management of that is communicating to upper management and leadership?? Or do you mean.

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Alolita sharma: data management?, I'm sorry because we really do it, the business management., so the yeah.

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Alolita sharma: okay., so really, you know,. What are the benefits that.

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Alolita sharma: can be communicated clearly alolita sharma: to leadership. In order to., you know, ensure that observability is a first-class citizen right? because often it's very easy for infrastructure or applications to be built and deployed.

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Alolita sharma: without alolita sharma:, really you know, having observability first approaches.

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Alolita sharma: right in the design and in in the way that.

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Alolita sharma: often tools chains are just tagged on., so I totally agree with you.

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Alolita sharma: out there. there.. There is a lot of need for that.

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Alolita sharma: that can be communicated.

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Alolita sharma: any other areas. vijay: any areas you'd like to see.

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Vijay samuel: so yeah, there are actually a few.. One is around the the person whom you had quoted. Around.

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Vijay samuel: threading the line around the cost. Management. I'd really like to bring that person over and see if.

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Vijay samuel: what they have to say in terms of managing costs while providing the right, observability or anyone who can give a good talk around that.

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Alolita sharma: okay.

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Vijay samuel:, that is one real life. use cases of racing platforms that people have built out.

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Vijay samuel: there. there's still not a lot of knowledge. That's out on the open, on how people are running massively scalable installations of tracing.

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Vijay samuel:, it's usually vijay samuel:. We use product x or project y,, but the integrity around it.. Not not a lot of people have talked about., so that is another space.. That would be nice.

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Alolita sharma: definitely. and then also best practices,, because I think that there are a lot of. there's a lot of knowledge.

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Alolita sharma: around what works at massive scale in implementations where tracing has been done. but,, as you also said.,.

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Alolita sharma: it's relatively fewer and number right compared to metrics compared to logging, which have infrastructure which has been deployed for a long period of time..

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Alolita sharma: and typically,. You know there are a whole set of guidelines that can be at least shared with developers out of the box application developers, especially because.

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Alolita sharma: there is a gap.. I feel also personally,, that there is a gap between.

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Alolita sharma:, you know what alolita sharma: application developers are assuming alolita sharma: in terms of what tracing can do for them, and how it can be best leveraged for specific types of.

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Alolita sharma: feature, tracing or alolita sharma: performance, tracing versus everything.

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Alolita sharma:, right and and every single transaction, that's priest, so totally agree.

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Vijay samuel: and to extend to that, both from an open telemetry point of view and from the back end point of view,. There's there's a lot to be still talked about on how to run open, telemetry.

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Alolita sharma: at scale in an efficient,, efficient manner.. We don't have enough people talking about how they are able to do that., but yes, agreed, absolutely. and also,. I would say, as you said, open, you know,. How do you actually implement efficient tracing data stores?.

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Alolita sharma: because alolita sharma:, I think metrics, is pretty well established at this. Point. logging is also,, but tracing is again.

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Alolita sharma: an evolving area,, and I think that while data stores,, you know which have existed column or data stores, and others which are used for it., it's storing., it traces.

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Alolita sharma: there is a favor of discussion still to be had,. If that's the the most efficient or.

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Alolita sharma: the most optimized.

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alolita sharma:, so totally agree.

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Alolita sharma: tracing data stores.

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Alolita sharma: any others.

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Alolita sharma: chris, did you want to share any.

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Alolita sharma: topics that you had in mind? wisconsin.

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Alolita sharma: or in alolita sharma: tony.,.

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Chris hanson:, I I don't have anything specifically in my.

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Chris hanson:, I'm always kind of interested in.

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Chris hanson: sort of the responsibility of observability.

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Chris hanson:, let me qualify that.

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Chris hanson: oftentimes, we rely on libraries for those things, and then that becomes developer responsibility to maintain those over time.

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Chris hanson: whereas,, like in a service mesh scenario.

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chris hanson:. It becomes part of the platform right. If I, if I'm adding things like traces and and.

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Chris hanson:, via proxies and that sort of thing.

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Chris hanson:- and I don't know chris hanson: how well well, that's understood like who's responsibility, ultimately, and I guess it's an organizational decision.. But it's always an interesting conversation to me.

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Alolita sharma: yes, because I think you're right., I mean,. It depends on first of all, where it sits.

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Alolita sharma:, but it also is a full stack, approach. right?, I mean,. I don't think.

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Alolita sharma: that you can implement observability alolita sharma: end to end without an end to end stakeholdership. right? that is, you have application.

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Alolita sharma: engineers,, as you said,, you have platform engineers,, for you know some components, and then you also have.

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Alolita sharma: a larger end to end division that does. it requires, you know, a handshake across different teams,, right, so, and and and and engineering. so.

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Alolita sharma:, that's again the I think. as you said,, there may be different scenarios.

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Alolita sharma:, but definitely an interesting area,, because I think that does this go back. Also to being able to highlight that in discussions, you know, in your own or.

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Alolita sharma: is that.

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Alolita sharma: would that be helpful?.

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Chris hanson: well, yeah,. I think it's just maybe it just a point of confusion like who, who should be doing it, or it like you, said.

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Chris hanson: and that it should be a joint effort,, not chris hanson:, a us. versus them.

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Alolita sharma: is that a. is that a shared responsibility, model, right?, because I think that.

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Alolita sharma: any of these areas- and this applies the same, for security also.. Is it a it?? It is shared. Responsibility. actually, I feel., but.

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Alolita sharma:, how that is implemented, and what the complexities are are always or specific.

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Alolita sharma: sure, sure, surely totally.

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Alolita sharma: ren.

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alolita sharma:. Did you have any suggestions or topics? you would,? You would like to see?.

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Rynn mancuso (they/them):, not too much,, I think,, but a good one to consider is always.

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Rynn mancuso (they/them): observability, pipeline observability stacks working with multiple kinds of observability, tooling.

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Alolita sharma: and just an overview of some of these facts.

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Rynn mancuso (they/them): it'd be interesting to look at how how folks are choosing their stacks.

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Alolita sharma: okay.

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Alolita sharma: so alolita sharma: there. I I think there are 2 ways to approach that.. I just wanna.

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Alolita sharma: I to dig a little bit into this one is that.

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Alolita sharma:, you could approach it from a criteria perspective.. That is what are the criteria that a.

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Alolita sharma: team that is implementing observability. or continuing to add to their current stack.. What are the criteria that they are.

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Alolita sharma: using for alolita sharma: their choice,, making a choice or making an evaluation?.

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Alolita sharma: and then there's the other side that you know.. What are the features that matter that make that solution? Compelling? is that is that what you're, looking at? or.

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Alolita sharma:, or are you looking at it from an implementation perspective.

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Alolita sharma:, when any comments on that?.

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Alolita sharma:: are you looking at both?.

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Rynn mancuso (they/them):. Sorry, I thought I had a couple of you.. It was sitting here talking.. I think.

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Rynn mancuso (they/them):, both of them are pretty interested.. I think criteria is maybe more interesting from this group. I give it. The rest of these topics are from.

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Rynn mancuso (they/them): more of a business perspective that a implementation, perspective.

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Alolita sharma: okay. good.

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Alolita sharma: I'm:, just taking notes. so, therefore,, just asking.

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Alolita sharma: tony any any topics you would like to see.

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Tony o: yeah,, I I think you know the the of.

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Tony o: discoverability.

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Tony o:, whether with tracing and and even metrics, would be interesting,, I think. but 10 to the.. It feels like a lot of the.

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Tony o: folks, we work with tend to have issues, and they have data,, but they they tend to have issues around.

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Tony o: find them.

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tony o:. What problems are occurring., so I think.

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Tony o:, the idea of efficiently, you know,, instead of over sampling,.

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Tony o: being able to discover issues, whether.

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Tony o: different approaches,, you know,, even with tony o:, I mean,, the intersection of that with ml., will probably be even interesting to find anomalies and tracing, or.

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Tony o:, I think, pencil things like that.. If there's any any teams out there,, don't know any any books on that. That'd be interesting to just kind of see how best practices and more folks are doing around.

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Tony o: around that piece.

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Alolita sharma: so for 3 are doing issues right?. I mean you're you're, basically saying for root, causing issues.

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Tony o:, it just seems like a at scale. you, you tend to have so much data that you need to look through and for any.

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Tony o:, any team that has all this data the other day is sampling the same.

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Tony o: set of tens that where everything looks good. but the problem is,, they really need to find things where things have gone. Wrong. so being able to highlight.

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Tony o:, what's going wrong for them in a in a quick way, would be would be good.

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Tony o:, I'm not sure of you know., I'm not sure. If there's anything that does that automatically., but.

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Tony o: yeah,, but it it'd be good to to like discover ability. just seems like it's a little hard with observability at scale, at least so. and and strategies around that,, I think, would be.

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Tony o: we'll get to see how other folks are thinking about it.

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Alolita sharma: yeah,. That's that's a very good call out,, because I think that this is one of the complex areas that how do you actually analyze the data that you're collecting and storing.

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Alolita sharma:, because the mechanics of storage or collection, storage or presentation are,, you know,, addressed in in the standardized open source tools., but.

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Alolita sharma: when it comes to actually applying analysis and being able to accelerate root cause., that's always a challenge, right?, so root causing and triaging real time is always a challenge.

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Tony o: right?.

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Alolita sharma: yep., so good. good. call out.

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Alolita sharma: right?, I think we have a pretty healthy set of topics,, so really appreciate everyone jumping in to provide some feedback.. Are there other areas that you wanted to discuss? Today?? I know we have about a few minutes,, but I.

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Alolita sharma: just want to go around.. I think I am. at least I don't have any other topics on my end.

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Alolita sharma:, and I think we also have just wanted to do a call out,. We do have a speaker in the next session.

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Alolita sharma:, who will be diving into a specific observability topic. He has been working on. I'll, get the topic and share it with you.. It's been working on graphs.

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Alolita sharma: and graphing for observability.

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Maps. alolita sharma: and that should be pretty interesting.

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alolita sharma: and I think that matt had already suggested and introduced quinn last time or the time before.

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Alolita sharma:, so he he will be presenting in the next.

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Alolita sharma: session., so it should be pretty interesting.

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Alolita sharma: any other topics, upset.

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Oliver edelmann:, maybe I should just something in.

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Oliver edelmann:, so you need to see if it fits or not.

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Oliver edelmann: a sitting in the european union for us.. It's always a a big challenge to think about the detailed protection wars and.

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Oliver edelmann: what that means for observability,, especially when we talk about locks and and traces., and we collect a business matrix, and with the business matrix.

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Oliver edelmann:, ids and and other things that could actually be to to trace on people.

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Oliver edelmann: it's, of course,, more a legal discussion., but.

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Oliver edelmann:, I I think something at least for the european users. it's.. It's really important to look into that.

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Alolita sharma: very good point. and I think, oliver,. That's.

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Alolita sharma: pretty important actually, for any kind of global services,, because.

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Alolita sharma: any, as you, as you said,, you know, any data that is in.

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Alolita sharma: compliant with you requirements needs to actually be able to apply that apply those compliance rules, and that does apply to observability.. If now.

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Alolita sharma:, I would say in general it those those.

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Alolita sharma: data, privacy or data protection rules do are applied at a business level in terms of the applications or at the data store level. Itself, right?.

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Alolita sharma: because typically analysis, alolita sharma: in organizations that have data from you know. Different areas is not.

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Alolita sharma: is, is pre-processed before being running through your observability pipeline.. So.

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Alolita sharma:, I think what you're alluding to is really what kind of pre-processing.

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Alolita sharma: guidelines or best practices technically exist, which are used? is that.

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Alolita sharma: is that what you're looking at? are you looking at the technical implementation. or are you looking at?? What are some of the guidelines? You need to be aware. Of?.

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Oliver edelmann: yeah,, it's it's actually both.

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alolita sharma:, so I I need to oliver edelmann: find out both,, but from from a practical experience I mean.

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Oliver edelmann: often we have people that are responsible for the observability stack.

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Alolita, sharma: and and oliver edelmann: provide the observability stack., but we don't have really control what is going. In. and programmers tend to be.

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Oliver edelmann: more lazy., so I mean what one of the common issues that we have.

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Oliver edelmann: is that just the whole message that the customer types in goes into the lock file., what's that? the whole message that comes through some.

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Oliver edelmann: kafka or other message. poker is stuff, block completely, and if they put in credit card details, names, things like that,, you have basically.

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Oliver edelmann: personal data and your observability details to work that you need to handle it somehow.

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Alolita sharma: no, absolutely., and I think that again, depending on I mean,, there are several implementations and best practice considerations that are applied.

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Alolita sharma:, but it's a good area to actually dive into.. There are folks who are actively working on.

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Alolita sharma: again gdp, our compliance, for example,, which then intersects into pre-processing the data that is, you know, being emitted from applications for example, for observability. and and then that pre-processing is done before even.

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Alolita sharma:, it hits the rest of the pipeline. right?, so.

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Alolita sharma:, no good good suggestions, because I think that's that's pretty, very practical, and also very useful to understand.

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Alolita sharma:, it's a good good call out I'll,, I'll! and again,. If you have any experts in mind that you'd like,, you know folks to come in and.

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Alolita sharma: present that,, please suggest,, but I'll also follow up.

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Oliver edelmann: good.

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Alolita sharma: awesome, and I think last, but not least,. When.

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Alolita sharma:, thank you for calling this out the coupon. chicago.

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Alolita sharma: cfp. is now open., so again,. If you have specific areas or topics in mind.

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Alolita sharma:, please do start thinking about, you know.

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Alolita sharma: talk sessions that you can submit.

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alolita sharma: also,, I'm happy to help review any proposals. If you are.

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Alolita sharma:, if you want a second, fair or third pair of ice, so.

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Alolita sharma: and then, you know,. We can always also discuss in the tag meetings.. If there are specific topics that you know,, we would like to kind of cover and pull in more talks. On.

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Alolita sharma:, but when, thanks for calling this out., I think they're almost at time.

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Alolita sharma: so going by once any questions.

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Alolita sharma: twice., alolita sharma:, all right,. I think. then I'll give you back alolita sharma: a few minutes. alolita sharma:. Thank you. Again.. Everyone for joining in. have a lovely day.

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Alolita sharma:, like.

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Oliver edelmann: bye.