►
From YouTube: CNCF TOC Meeting 2021-11-09
Description
CNCF TOC Meeting 2021-11-09
A
All
right,
we
are
now
recording
welcome
to
the
sandbox
review
meeting
so,
let's
hand
off
to
you
awesome.
B
B
Reading
this
form
ish,
which
just
slightly
made
me
wonder
whether
some
of
these
projects
are.
B
Yeah
very
new,
very
and
I
don't
know
whether
we
should.
B
I
mean
I
know
our
barrier
to
entry
here
is
low.
Oh
chris
has
mentioned
the
vs
code
thing.
Yes,
I
think
that's
that
that
was
one
of
the
ones
I've
heard
of
but
yeah
without
changing
it
such
that
we
you
know,
we
still
have
that
experimentation.
C
C
So
so
I
you
know
they're
very
basically,
it
does
not
basically
means
they're
really
really
new
and
and
it's
it's
it's
hard
to
make-
I
mean
I
I
didn't
have
time
to
actually
install
it
and
run
it
because
I
just
don't
know
how
I
can
possibly
make
a
judgment
of
the
quality
of
the
of
the
of
the
of
these
projects.
So
that's
one
of
the
struggle
I
had
it's.
C
You
know
I
was
looking
at
how
professional
they
are
in
terms
of
the
documentation,
the
write-up,
so
I
can
kind
of
make
those
type
of
judgments,
but
without
a
without
a
longer
track
record
of
seeing
the
community
adoption
and
community
response.
It's
it's
it's
you
know.
I
think
I
will
probably
personally
need
more
time
to
play
with
those
projects
to
to
to
at
least
try
to
form
an
opinion.
It's
it's
it's.
This
is
actually
quite
this
one
is
amazingly
quite
challenging.
B
Yeah
we
haven't,
we
haven't
actually
started
discussing
individual
projects,
but
we
were
kind
of
raising
our
sort
of
general
worry
about
whether
the
well.
It's
interesting
that
we've
got
such
a
long
list
of
projects
that
most
of
us
have
not
heard
of,
and
whether
or
not
that
says
something
about
the
you
know.
Well,
we
we
want
to
encourage
experimentation,
but.
B
D
B
C
I
mean
for
me
it's
just
the
difficulty
to
judge
because
you
know,
like
I
said
I
didn't.
Unfortunately,
I
didn't
have
time
to
actually
install
and
play
with
those
projects
myself,
so
so
that
would
probably
be
what's
honestly
what's
required
if
a
project
has
only
been.
If
I
couldn't
find
much
evidence
of
you
know
community
adoption
or
or
comments
and
go
made
or
or
or
slack
channel
activity.
C
So
it's
it
that
that's
what
makes
it
hard
or
like
if
I
asked
other
other
people
I
know,
and
they
haven't
who's
supposed
to
work
in
that
area.
They
haven't
heard
of
it
either.
So
it
just
made
it
very
hard
for
me
to
judge
that
that
that's
all
the
the
the
subjective
judgment
is
gone
but
yeah
we
can
go
through
them
and-
and
there
are
a
few
that
that
was
good.
E
F
B
B
B
G
Oh,
my
god,
so
this
is
from
a
company
called
cubesphere
and
they
are
doing
they.
They
have
one
more,
which
is
the
last
one
open
function,
so
they
have
one
more
submission.
I
don't
know
what
others
they
already
have
in
cncf.
B
H
B
G
No
concerns
as
such.
I
I
liked
what
they
were
doing
with
them
different
caps
in
kubernetes.
They
are
piggybacking
on
some
of
the
submissions
from
like
google
to
stitch
things
together
into
us.
You
know
stitch
multiple
clusters
together,
so
that
was
a
good
sign
for
me.
D
Yeah
and
having
been
part
of
that
in
my
previous
life,
you
know,
I
think
there
really
was
an
effort
to
not
have
it
be
openshift
focused
and
really
go
way
of
the
community.
There
were
some
architectural
decisions
made
early
on
to
like
pivot,
away
from
more
ibm,
openshift
way
of
doing
things
and
how
the
community
was
doing
it.
So
I
think
they've
fully
embraced
that
that's
where
it
should
live
and
grow
it's
needed.
I
mean
this
is
from
a
customer
use
case.
D
G
H
B
D
D
No,
I
mean
there
are
definitely
people
that
worked
on
what
was
it
sig,
multi-cluster
and
then
cluster
api.
I
think
it's
a
lot
of
different
people
trying
to
accomplish
the
same
thing.
G
D
Correct
so
ibm
had
it
when
ibm,
bought,
red
hat
red
hat,
took
it
over
and
said.
C
Oh,
I
see
so
it's
sort
of
the
open
source
descendant
of
that.
So
it's
it's
got
a
longer
history
that
then
yeah.
One
thing
I
was
trying
to
find
out
was
how
new
a
project
it
is
because
it
seems
pretty
substantial,
but
but
it's
also
very
new.
I
guess
that
kind
of
explains
it.
D
Right
so
it's
new
in
the
sense
of
recently
open
sourced,
like
in
the
last
year
per
se,
but
the
project
actually
has
been
around
for
quite
a
while.
So
it's
it
is
fairly
mature
in
the
sense
that
it's
been
worked
on.
You
know
longer
than
this
repo
would
indicate
just
because
it
went
from
being
closed
to
open.
D
B
Right
so
that
may
also
suggest
that
I
mean
things
like
the
number
of
stars
are
pretty
small
at
the
moment,
but
that
may
be
you
know,
because
it's
so
new
in
open
source
form.
I
mean
it
is
interesting
that
I
mean
assuming
that
the
the
main
repo
is
open.
Cluster
management,
io,
slash
ocm,
it's
got
78
stars,
I
mean
maybe
that's
enough
for
a
sandbox,
but.
B
J
B
B
F
H
F
B
I'm
less
familiar
with
get
lab
than
I
am
with
github
I'm
seeing
like
one
star.
Am
I
looking
in
the
right
place.
E
G
C
Yeah
I
mean
it's,
it's
you
know.
If
you
look
at
the
architecture,
it's
very
very
specific.
You
know
it's
okay,
I
think
it's
probably
okay
to
use
gitlab
to
host
the
project
or
use
get
lab
as
a
git
repo,
but
this
is,
like
literally,
has
gitlab
baked
into
the
architecture
itself.
It's
it's
very
specific
it
almost.
It
is
a
very
opinionated
deployment
of
coop
spray.
B
G
J
G
H
B
C
G
So
I
had
a
proposal
at
the
beginning.
Should
we
go
to
well,
let's
deal
with
this
first,
do
you
want
to
tell
them
to
come
back.
C
B
B
G
B
G
Yeah,
so
what
drew
me
to
this
one
was,
since
the
plugin
essentially
is
editing
the
stuff
that
is,
you
know,
code
schema
stuff
from
the
helm
and
kubernetes
projects.
G
If
it's
closer
to
the
ecosystem,
then
the
plugin
gets
will
get
updated
sooner
than
later,
and
if
it
is
self-contained
that
people
can
build
and
use
with
the
local
version
of
vs
code,
then
you
know
it
might
be
easier
to
update
the
plugin
as
well.
So
that's
what
drew
me
to
this
specific
one.
B
I
I
don't
buy
it
for
a
few
reasons
and
I
love
vs
code.
I
use
vs
code
all
the
time.
I
think
it's
brilliant,
but
I
don't
buy
that
we
should
be
supporting
an
extension
to
a
platform
and
thereby
you
know
we're
essentially
putting
an
endorsement
behind
a
particular
ide.
That
is
not
part
of
the.
You
know
it's
owned
by
a
particular
vendor,
and
I
just
I
I
feel
like
that's
setting
a
really
bad
precedent.
B
G
D
G
Kubernetes
then
adding
one
more
is
not
like
a
big
deal,
but
we
are
starting
new.
Sorry,
chris
go
ahead.
Yeah.
F
B
I
I
don't
think
we
can
be
drawing
lines
around
like.
Oh,
you
know,
sandbox
has
different
rules
for
what
we
consider
to
be
cloud
native
or
what
we
consider
to
be
neutral.
I
I
really
I
I
just
feel
like
it.
It
sends
a
huge
message,
huge
message
that
cncf
says
you
should
use
vs
code
and,
as
I
say,
I
do
use
this
code.
I
love
code,
but
I'm
not
sure
that
that's
a
message
we
should
in
you
know.
F
B
I'm
not
sure
what
the
benefit
is
like
does
it.
Actually,
this
is
another
argument
for
it.
This
is
yeah,
maybe
part
of
the
ecosystem
for
cloud
native,
but
it
doesn't
it's
not
actually
cloud
native,
okay.
Well,
whether
it
is
cloud
native
or
not,
is
kind
of
irrelevant.
It's
it's
an
editor
and
we
don't
want
to
become
a
home
for
all
the
editors.
C
Correct,
I
I
think
I
think
the
argument
is
is
yeah.
I
mean
I
can
relate
to
the
substance.
Just
does
it
have
enough
the
project
itself?
Does
it
have
enough
substance
to
to
stand
alone
to
be
healthy?
You
know
I
mean.
Obviously
I
could,
I
could
imagine,
say
a
some
some
major
feature
like
kubernetes
itself
on
windows.
I
mean
that
is.
That
is
very
important.
That's
very
substantial,
but
but
given
the
plugging
on
editorial,
I
think
that's
what
the
argument
is.
It's
it's.
Does
it
qualify
as
a
standalone
project.
G
G
To
say
no,
do
we
say
that
we
we
have,
we
don't
eat,
cncf
doesn't
yet
has
a
policy
around
ide
and
ide
plugins.
G
So,
instead
of
saying
no
specifically
to
them,
we
we
can
like
I'm
asking
because
there
is
number
six,
no
local
host,
it's
in
the
same
boat,
it's
an
ide
for
both
vs
code
and
jetbrain.
So
you
know
we
could
say
that
we
don't
encourage
ide
and
ide
plugins
right
now.
At
this
moment,.
D
D
You
know,
but
it's
you
know,
uses
lots
of
different
products
projects
and
it's
not
specific
to
anything,
and
I
think
this
is
where
the
argument
stems
from
so
those
plugins
can
be
widely
used
amongst
many
different
ides.
Then
I
think
it
does
fit
it.
I
don't
think
we
want
to
have
a
blanket
statement
that
we
feel
like
tooling,
is
relevant.
F
F
F
The
ide,
but
the
plug-in
right
like
the
ide,
is
basically
it's.
It's
out
there.
It's
like
de
facto,
almost
standard
right
if
you're
gonna
be
building
tools,
you're
generally
going
to
have
to
write
extensions
in
ds
code
to
to
support
them,
as
you
know,
depending
what
type
of
business
you're
in.
So
you
know
if
you're,
a
red
hat
or
someone
and
you're
embedding
you
know
supporting
kubernetes.
You
need
to
generally
have
some
support
for
vs
code.
Extensions
right,
I
believe
the
openshift
team
does
this
currently
in
a
roundabout.
F
F
F
But
anything
that
we
could
get
out
of
potentially
like
the
largest
tooling
ide
tool
for
kubernetes,
most
widely
used
to
a
vendor-neutral,
multi-company
governance
thing,
I
think,
is
a
good
thing.
I
look
at
it
from
that
perspective,.
B
F
F
These
you
know
plug-ins,
but
but
from
a
neutrality
point
of
view.
I
view
it
as
like.
If
intellij
or
someone
else
came
up,
you
know
or
the
lens
project,
that's
kind
of
another
one
that
they're
doing
some
interesting
things
like
if
they
came
to
cncf.
I
don't
think
the
answer
would
be.
No
if
you
accepted
or
if
all
y'all
accepted
this
project,
you're
basically
saying
like
we're
open
to
any
type
of
id
or
sdk.
That
makes
kubernetes
more
consumable
for
end
users.
B
I
think
there's
two
separate
things,
neither
of
which
we
have
precedent
on
well,
one
of
which
we
kind
of
we
kind
of
have
negative
precedent
on
so
so
one
is.
Do
we
accept
projects
that
like
have
a
huge
dependency
on
something
non-neutral,
and
I
think
we
don't
yeah
and
the
second
sort
of
orthogonal
thing
is?
Do
we
accept
ides?
B
G
B
G
We
picked
some
projects
which
are
specific
to
intel
that
we
support
runtime.
If
I
remember
right.
G
F
J
H
D
Maybe
I
mean
maybe
that's
the
evolution,
though
right
of
how
things
are
coming
about.
You
know
we're
getting
away
from
the
guts
and
more
up
into
the
app
layer.
I
don't
know,
maybe
it's
a
consideration.
We
should
start
looking
at
if
we
it
looks
like
we're
getting
more
things
around
this.
Maybe
we
need
a
working
group.
That's
looking
at
this
close
more
closely.
B
B
B
Yeah
so
chris,
that
lens
project,
I
think,
is
slightly
different
for
two
reasons:
one.
If
they
donated
the
entirety
of
a
lens,
they
would
be
donating
the
entirety
of
lens.
D
B
C
Mean
my
perspective
is
given
how
predominant
you
know.
Vc
code
is,
and
as
long
as
there's
enough
substance
in
this
project,
I
I
think
it
qualifies
as
long
as
and
this
project
itself
is.
You
know
100
mit,
open
source
and
kubernetes
focused.
So
so
I've
been
you
know
anyway.
I'm
I'm
certainly
inclined
to
support
it.
H
B
F
D
F
I
think
there's
pro
yeah,
I
don't
know
if
the
question
makes
sense
like
maybe
they
have
like
underpinning
technology
that
could
be
reused
by
intellij
right,
like
there's,
probably
extensions
that
are
built
specifically
for
vs
code,
but
maybe
there's
some
underpinning
core
libraries
that
other
ids
could
use.
If
that
makes
sense,.
J
Well,
I
don't
know,
that's
one
thing:
the
knucklehost
one
supports
both,
but
I
don't
know
if
the
case
just
duplicated,
I
mean
effectively
it's
just
two
projects
but
yeah
or
whether
there's
actually
some
overlap,
because
that
would
make
it
more
neutral
if
it
was
ways
to
interact
with
kubernetes
in
your
idea.
F
F
Yeah
I
mean,
I
think,
microsoft's
track
record
has
improved
so
like
a
little
bit
lenient
here,
but
you
know
it's
up
to
all
y'all
I
mean.
I
F
B
E
A
All
right,
how
do
we
want
to
handle,
like
the
I
have
seven
of
you
quorum
is
eight,
I
believe,
vs
code.
It
does
not
actually
pass
because.