►
From YouTube: CDF SIG Best Practices - Sep 20, 2021
Description
For more information, visit: https://github.com/cdfoundation/sig-best-practices
A
It
looks
like
we
have
quite
a
few
folks
who
can't
make
it
today.
B
Yeah
not
sure
who's
going
to
be
available.
C
F
Yeah
sorry,
I
had
kind
of
a
I
had
a
fun
weekend,
but
very
busy,
and
I
I
splurged
I
yeah
my
family
bought
a
used,
rv
wow
yeah
and
then
because
we
bought
the
used
rv,
we
had
to
take
it
out
for
a
test
trip
which
really
was
just
going
and
getting
some
takeout
and
then
finding
a
pretty
place
to
park
while
we
ate.
F
B
F
D
B
A
F
G
F
A
Wonderful
good,
okay,
so
nicola
and
I
are
gonna
both
speak
to
these
slides.
We
didn't
really
have
much
of
a
chance
to
to
to
prepare
formally,
but
we
got
our
ideas
in
a
you
know.
Bro.
A
Yeah
yeah,
so
what
we
were
hoping
to
do
today
was
just
kind
of
make
sure
that
we
were
we
correctly
interpreted
the
assumptions
that
we're
making
about
kind
of
who
are,
you
know
who
our
readers
are,
makes
verify
that
we
are
actually
thinking
about
producing
the
correct
deliverables
and
then
ask
a
few
questions
and
try
to
come
up
with
a
general
sense
of
what
our
next
steps
might
be.
So.
H
A
So,
okay,
I
think
we
just
yeah
so
yeah.
So
these
are
the
assumptions
and
this
is
actually
yeah
we.
This
is
a
great
thing
to
really
nail
down.
So
what
we
want
the
site
to
do
is
share
best
practices
and
invite
content
from
the
community.
A
What
visitor,
what
we
believe
visitors
come
to
the
site
to
do
is
because
they
want
to
improve
their
company
or
organization,
and
they
want
to
share
their
story.
So
you
can
see
we
kind
of
got
a
green
blue
thing
here
going
with
what's
in
it
for
me,
what's
in
it
for
the
community
sort
of
thing
and
then
our
deliverables,
we
are
going
to
try
to
put
together
an
ia
that
maps
to
your
content
needs
and
we're
going
to
try
to
recommend
tooling.
A
A
Okay,
so
what
what
is
ia?
Oh
information,
architecture,
it's
really
just
you
know,
kind
of
how
the
how
the
content
flows
on
the
site
perfect.
Thank
you
and
then
one
of
our
deliverables
is
definitely
a
contributor's
guide.
We
got
that
for
sure.
A
So
our
proposal
is
this
is
based
on
the
research
that
we've
been
doing
in
our
own
team
and
kind
of
recognizing
how
best
to
support
people
with
technical
goals.
We
thought
that
we
would
try
to
put
together
a
goals-based
journey
for
customers
and
then
sort
of
map.
The
content
to
that-
and
this
slide
here
is
just
I
just
threw
some
stuff
on
the
screen.
A
The
user
goals
across
the
top
are
kind
of
you
know
pretty
standard
issue
for
or
implement
for
developing
software
and
implementing
it,
and
then
the
phases
are
fairly
arbitrary,
but
also
a
fairly
standard
issue,
and
then
the
user
questions
is
an
attempt
to
get
out
what
what
is
the
user
thinking
about
at
any
given
time
during
their
their
journey.
And
how
can
we
make
sure
that
we
give
them
that
content
when
they
need
it.
A
So
you
can
see,
you
know,
for
your
site,
really
there's
an
awful
lot
in
the
learn
area
and
I
think
you
could
even
have
learn
down
under
share
as
well,
possibly
but
so
yeah.
So
this
site
is
primarily
a
learning
site,
which
is
great
so
we'll
come
back
to
the
slide
later.
Maybe
go
on
ahead.
Nicole.
A
The
way
people
would
interact
with
the
site
that
they
would
come,
and
the
very
first
thing
they
would
have
to
do
would
be
decide
if
they
wanted
to
go
down
the
kind
of
improve
my
organization
path
or
if
they
wanted
to
go
down
the
share,
my
story
path
and
they're,
not
exclusive.
Of
course
they
could
bounce
back
and
forth
between
two
of
them,
but
if
we
organize
the
content
to
support
them,
doing
one
of
those
two
directions
to
start
with,
I
think
they'll
be
pretty
well
located.
A
So
then
I
was
hoping
we
could
kind
of
validate
the
stuff
that
nicole
and
I
put
down
here.
Is
this
really
what
we're
wanting?
What
we're
expecting
they'll
be
asking
and
trying
to
so
I'll?
Let
you
just
take
a
look
at
it
and.
A
Oh
sorry,
recognition
that
should
be
okay
and,
and
that
was
kind
of
just
a
wild
guess-
are
there
other
reasons
that
people
would
want
to
share
their
story
that
we
didn't
get
to.
D
I
B
So
one
of
the
things
that
strikes
me-
and
this
is
possibly
just
because
it's
shorthand
for
for
this
presentation,
but
I
I
think
we
need
to
make
sure
that
the
focus
here
is
on
continuous
delivery.
A
G
B
That's
the
if
you
like,
that's
the
overarching
approach
and
then
cicd
is
a
part
of
a
methodology
to
to
to
deliver
on
that
approach
great.
How
does
everybody
else
feel
about
that.
D
D
D
I
think
we've
had
some
efforts
around
the
whole
glossary
topic
and
I
think,
as
as
part
of
this,
we
should
finalize
some
aspect
of
that,
which
is
just
a
here's,
a
set
of
terms,
here's
what
we
mean
as
cdf
when
we
talk
about
them
within
our
community,
some
can
have
multiple
definitions,
and
but
I
I
think
we
will
do
that.
We
should
do
that
exercise
and
close
the
loop
on
it
just
so
we
have
that
common
reference
yeah
great.
A
Very
helpful
to
have
a
set
of
terms
validated:
let's
see,
gap,
analysis.
Okay,
let's
go
on
to
the
next
page
and
nicola.
Would
you
be
okay
with
talking
to
this.
C
C
G
G
E
G
All
right
I
had
to,
I
think
I
had
to
deselect
share
tab
audio
okay,
so
in
the
introduction
of
the
best
practices
draft
we
have,
there
is
a
bunch
of
stuff
talking
about
you,
know,
sort
of
the
history
of
using
waterfall
approach
and
and
moving
into
a
more
you
know,
having
it
iterating
more
quickly
and
having
that
feedback
loop
and
getting
into
some
of
the
door
of
key
metrics
and
so
on.
G
But
then
we
kind
of
jump
straight
into
here
are
all
the
best
practices
for
arena
control
and
so
on.
So
one
of
the
things
we
saw
is
kind
of
a
gap
is
providing
providing
this
context
around.
G
Where
do
I
start
so?
Yes,
you
know
we
would
like
to
modernize
the
way
that
we
do
things
with
continuous
delivery.
But
where
do
I
even
start?
What
what
parts
of
my
current
processes
do?
I
need
to
address
so
this
sort
of
assessment
piece
and
trying
to
understand
that
this
is
an
incremental
process
and
that
this
isn't
just
you
modernize
by
implementing
kubernetes
like
it's,
not
that
that's
not
how
this
works.
If
I
quickly
jump
over
to
another
slide
deck.
G
So
some
of
the
some
of
these,
these
four
dora
key
metrics
they
kind
of
map
to
speed
and
stability,
which
are
things
that
people
are
very
interested
in
this
is
this-
is
one
of
our
dres
put
this
deck
together,
and
so,
when
you
look
at
the
door
capabilities,
you
don't
just
go
from
a
to
b
in
one
fell
swoop
right
and
the
specific
capabilities
you
want
to
focus
on
will
depend
on
your
assessment
of
where
you
are
so.
Some
of
that
comes
from
things
like
value
stream
mapping.
G
Some
of
that
might
come
from
doing
the
dora,
quick
check
or
whatever,
like
or
reading
through,
accelerate
and
saying.
Oh,
this
resonates
with
me.
I
have
this
gap
here,
but
you
you
don't
do
this
in
one
file
swoop,
everybody
has
their
kind
of
journey,
and
so,
if
you
want
to
get
to
this
mythic
team
x,
that
has
all
these
wonderful
capabilities.
G
G
You
can
keep
what
you
have
and
then
you're
not
making
any
progress
or
you
you
do
things
iteratively,
and
so
the
idea,
then,
is
you
use
something
like
value
stream
mapping
or
you
use
the
door,
a
quick
check
to
kind
of
see
where
you
are
in
terms
of
the
four
key
metrics.
So
I
think
that
kind
of
messaging
is
is
missing
from
what
we
have
on
the
site
or
at
least
making
those
kinds
of
clear
connections,
so
the
people
say
yeah
yeah.
I
want
to
do
this
like
cd
stuff.
G
How
do
I
start
so
this
is.
This
is
kind
of
what
this
slide
is
about.
Is
we
talked
in
our
last
meeting
about
how
we
want
to
help
users
make
connections
across
the
whole
software
supply
chain
and
that
we
also
want
to
help
people
understand
that
you
are
here.
So
one
of
the
things
we
identified
in
sort
of
helping
to
close
that
gap
is
is
talking
about.
G
How
do
you
assess
where
you
are
and
what
your
next
steps
should
be
and
then
making
the
changes
based
on
that,
rather
than
trying
to
buying
into
the
marketing
of
oh,
you
should
implement
kubernetes
or
or
oh,
you
should
implement
this
and
like
trying
to
navigate
the
buzzwords
right.
So
some
of
the
tools
are
for
that
are
things
like
value
stream
mapping
using
dora.
There
are
some
other
frameworks
that
can
help
with
that,
like
salsa,
but
that's
what
this
slides
about
so
does
that
does
that
kind
of
make
sense.
B
B
Important
and
I
I
I,
I
definitely
feel
you're
right-
there
is
still
a
significant
gap
in
the
middle
of
of
this
narrative
where
we
need
to.
We
need
to
connect
people
across,
and
I
also
think
it's
important
that
we're
we're
careful
about
how
we
put
things
in
in
context,
because
the
the
thing
that
I
I
keep
seeing
repeatedly
is.
B
You
know
where,
where
devops
and
continuous
delivery
are
about
going
faster
in
the
context
of
implementing,
you
know
lean
product
discovery
and
product
commercialization
in
a
silicon
valley
model,
most
people
who
are
new
to
devops
or
to
continuous
delivery,
just
fixate
on
the
going
faster
thing,
and
they
believe
that
they
can
apply
it
to
anything,
and
it
will
work
equally
as
effectively
because
it's
just
about
going
faster
right.
B
H
H
No,
it's
just
terry
just
to
clarify,
so
you
mean
like
the
blind
adoption
of
tools,
because
this
is
the
new
buzz
too.
This
is
the
new
tool
everyone's
talking
about
we're
just
gonna
start
using
that,
without
really
understanding
where
it
fits
into
our
you
know,
our
sdlc
or
into
our
workflow.
H
B
It's
the
fact
that
half
of
the
audience
are
coming
from
that
bay
area
mindset
of
already
knowing
how
products
are
built
on,
and
this
is
a
tool
to
build
them
better,
but
the
rest
of
the
audience
don't
even
know
how
to
build
products,
but
they
know
they
have
to
build
something
and
what
they're
doing
at
the
moment
isn't
working,
so
they
want
to
be
able
to
do
it
faster.
B
Well.
Why,
in
in
what
context?
You
know
how?
How
are
you
going
to
apply
it?
What
advantages
is
it
going
to
give
you
and
when
you
dig
in
you
find
that
they've
got
a
waterfall
business
process
for
a
strategic
plan?
That's
five
years
long
and
the
cicd
isn't
actually
going
to
give
them
any
advantage
at
all
unless
they
first
tackle
their
whole
strategic
approach
to
to
how
they're
structuring
their
their
product
development.
B
Include
some
of
that
in
the
in
this
middle
storytelling,
so
that
we
we
don't
end
up
being
another
misleading
source,
offering
a
silver
bullet
of
going
faster
without
saying
under
what
context
will
you
go
faster?
G
Absolutely
it
and
that
I
I
think
I
think
you're
right.
I
think
we
do
have
people
who
are
coming
in
and
they've
heard
about
dora
or
they've
heard
about
these
four
key
metrics.
But
I
think,
if
you
step
back
further
than
that-
and
you
say
to
people
document
like
that
whole
value
stream,
mapping
things
like
what
is
your
process
like?
Do
you
have
it
even
written
down,
and
do
you
even
know
what
all
the
players
are
and
and
evaluate
where
your
bottlenecks
are
there,
and
it
might
be
something
as
simple
as
step
one
is.
G
We
have
to
figure
out
what
our
processes
are
and
where
things
are
breaking,
because
we
can't
even
get
to
identifying
some
of
these
questions
that
are
indoor,
because
we
don't.
We
don't
even
know
what
those
answers
are
and
and
yeah.
Sometimes
people
are
coming
in
and
they're
driven,
not
by
speed,
but
by
cost
right.
So
then
the
focus
might
be
something
like
well,
you
can
save
cost
by.
G
You
know
through
virtualization,
and
then
maybe
you
know
from
from
virtualization
and
bare
metal.
You
go
from
bare
metal,
you
virtualize,
and
then
you
you,
you
maybe
move
to
the
cloud
later,
but
it's
it's
figuring
out
where
you
are
now
and
helping
people
to
figure
out
the
tools
they
can
use
to
to
do
that.
So
then
they
can
understand
what
their
priorities
are,
so
that
they
aren't
just
yeah
using
ci
cd
as
this
buzzword
or
like
finding
some
checklist
that
tells
them
yeah.
H
G
G
F
F
H
I
think
fear
failure
is
a
huge
one
for
developers
coming
in,
because
no
matter
what
level
you
are,
if
you
want
to
implement
something
and
you're
trying
to
battle
against
what
the
current
norm
is
in
the
organization,
there's
obviously
still
at
least
some
culture
there
that
are
used
to
using
the
current
process.
Maybe
you
don't
want
to
change
and
would
only
relish
not
having
to
learn
new
stuff
and
there's
always
that
that's
that
side.
H
So
there
is
a
fear,
failure,
no
matter
what
level
you
are
and
no
matter
how
much
pull
you
have
so
to
speak
in
your
in
your
current
team.
You
are
going
to
have
that
that
certain
amount
of
fear
there
and
making
sure
that
you
can
break
down
that
barrier
is
is
the
key
thing
for
me.
F
Yeah,
okay
engineers,
hate
change,
we
know
this
and-
and
I
think
that's
where
in
that
particular
case,
I
think,
having
the
tying
it
back
to
the
the
what
terry
was
saying
around
context,
but
even
more
granularly,
which
is
you
know,
what
are
the
incremental
miles,
success
milestones
or
success,
metrics
that
you
can
be
aligning
against
in
order
to
show
value
in
the
course
of
the
process
or,
to
course,
correct
in
during
the
process.
F
I
think
both
of
those
things
to
speak
to
what
what
you
were
saying
anthony
is
that
you
know
how
to
kind
of
buck
yourself
along
right,
like
no.
No,
I,
like,
I
got
these
things.
These
things,
these
three
things
done.
It's
we're
making
progress
here.
You
know,
and
I
can
tell
other
people
about
them
and
build
that
momentum
right
and
when
I
a
lot
of
times
when
I
talk
about
organizational
transformation
along
these
lines,
it's
it
is.
It
is
that
the
theme
of
momentum
there
are
no
switches
right.
B
Yeah
and
you
could
you
could
almost
describe
this
as
being
on
a
continuum
where
a
one
end
you've
got
failure
is
not
an
option
and
the
other
end
you've
got.
Failure
is
compulsory.
B
Yes,
so
so
the
whole
of
this
methodology
is
based
on
making
safe
spaces
to
fail
in
so
that
you
can
learn
what
you
actually
need
in
order
to
succeed,
yeah
definitely
yeah.
D
And
just
one
thing
I
was
gonna
just
on
the
list.
I
guess
because
of
the
resources
like
for
me,
team
topologies
is
a
slightly
different
thing
like
again
the
topology
there
could
be
an
assessment
of
how
your
teams
are
structured
and
what
that
looks
like
and
but
that's
also
distinct
from
culture.
So
maybe
we
want
something
like
the
western
surveys.
You
know
the
five
or
six
questions
you
ask
to
evaluate
the
culture.
G
B
B
So
you
know
you'll
find
that
many
many
people
will
be
thinking
from
a
project
perspective
and
we'll
be
thinking
about
managers
and
doers
and
people
allocating
work
and
people
delivering
work
and
there
will
be
zero
focus
on
product
and
you
know,
and
aligning
and
discovering
and
measuring
against
what
the
customer
wants
so
so
yeah.
I
think
it's
important
that
we
do
try
and
highlight
some
of
those
alternative
ways
of
seeing
the
world
to
to
show
how
that
fits
into
making
the
methodologies
work.
G
So
this
is,
this
was
mostly
just
collection
for
our
purposes.
You
know
if
we
do.
This
is
for
the
sort
of
community
contributed
side,
some
examples
of
resources
that
that
are
things
that
have
come
out
of
google,
so
things
that
we
might,
for
example,
highlight
in
a
more
google
specific
implementation.
G
Some
of
them
are
resources
that
are
sort
of
known
in
the
industry,
but
that's
really
all
this
slide
is
and
then
some
external
resources
that
are
related
to
like
dora
and
some
other
stuff.
G
This
again
was
more
okay
stuff
that
we
might
need
to
keep
in
mind
when,
when
looking
at
things,
so,
for
example,
I
found
that
the
you
had
your
cd
foundation
guidelines
around
things
like
terminology,
and
you
have
a
code
of
conduct
already
so,
for
example,
if
a
trip
contributor
guide,
we
want
to
make
sure
we
reference
the
code
of
conduct.
So
this
again
is
not
necessarily
content.
We
would
put
on
the
site
but
stuff.
That
would
be
important
to
look
at
in
reference
when
putting
the
material
together.
G
B
Note
on
is,
you
know
we
want
to
be
explicit
about
supply
chain
software
supply
chain
because
again
it's
another
one
of
those
things
that
we
take
for
granted,
but
the
audience
won't
necessarily
be
thinking
in
those
terms.
So
again
we
should.
We
should
provide
some
pointers
and
an
overview
and
just
set
some
context
to
help
people
to
understand
how
that
fits
into
the
the
overarching
problem.
G
Yeah,
absolutely
I
I
didn't
talk
too
much
about
that,
because
there
was
that
security
section
in
the
in
the
draft
we
have
going.
But
you
know
particularly
this
year,
software
supply
chain
security
has
definitely
been
front
of
mind
for
a
lot
of
people.
So
yeah,
that's
definitely
in
scope.
A
Talk
about
it,
no
sure
I
can
talk
about
it.
So
what
what
we
were
thinking
is
that
that
the
next
steps-
probably
the
first
most
important
thing-
and
I
think
we've
done
some
of
this
even
in
this
meeting-
is
to
really
flesh
out
those
user
journeys
so
that
we
know
exactly
what
we're
doing
exactly
what
the
mindset
is
of
the
user
who's
coming
to
the
site
and
terry,
I
feel,
like
you,
have
a
ton
of
background
there.
Everything
you've
been
saying
about
what
they
know
and
what
you
expect
them
to
know.
A
I
think
we
need
to
capture
somewhere,
and
so
I'm
not
exactly
sure
what
the
best
way
would
be
for
us
to
proceed
collaboratively
in
this
way,
but
I
think
I
think,
if
we
go
back
to
that
slide,
I
think
it's
slide
five
nicola.
I'm
sorry,
I'm
not
sure.
A
So
I
think,
if
we
could,
maybe
as
a
team
or
individually
and
bring
them
back
and
merge
them
if
we
could
really
flesh
this
out,
so
that
we
have
the
level
of
detail
that
terry
was
getting
to
in
in
describing
kind
of
where
the
customer
mindset
is.
I
think
that
would
be
a
great
next
step,
because
then
we
could
really
get
into
the
assigning
the
content
types
and
where
they
should
be
for
each
stage
of
the
customer
journey.
Does
that
make.
E
A
Oh
yeah,
so
true,
yeah
yeah,
it's
going
to
be
different
for
everyone,
so
what
we
want
to
do
is
if
we,
you
know,
get
close
to
the
80
and
hope
that
the
20
can
figure
out
the
rest.
Yeah.
A
But
but
there's
just
a
lot
that
you
said
marie
that
I
think
could
flow
right
in
here
and
really
help.
B
Yeah
well
feel
free
to
to
reach
out
to
me.
If,
if,
if
you
want
some
of
my
time
and
we
can-
we
can
go
through
that,
okay.
A
D
D
D
How
do
we
have
the
community
come
through
and
contribute
what
they're
doing
or
where
they're
at
and
and
some
and
maybe
something
to
do
with
open
source
projects,
because
otherwise
I
don't
want
to
be
just
kind
of
redoing
what
google's
already
been
through
in
just
a
slightly
different
format,
with
a
different
site,
so
yeah
just
trying
to
think
through.
What's
going
to
yeah
make
this
key.
F
We
want
to
there's
like
the
two
phases
of
the
of
these
ideas.
One
is
sort
of
the
the
most
neutral
concepts
terms,
patterns
right
and
then
there's
the
execution
of
those,
and
I
think
that's
what
you
were
touching
on
as
well.
Just
now,
it's
like
we've
got.
You
know,
google
has
done
a
bunch
of
investigations
of
this
has
have
many
others
right.
How
can
we
bring
in
what
would
we
call
it
like
linked
content
like
here's,
a
set
of
concepts
that
are
just
defined
in
a
neutral
setting?
F
Here's
how
it
looks
like
if
you
use
google
stuff,
here's
how
it
looks
if
you
use
spinnaker
here's
how
it
looks
if
you
use
screwdriver,
right
and-
and
so
one
of
the
things
that
I
think
would
be
really
interesting
to
do
is
to
I
you
know
to
see
if
we
can
reach
out
to
those
projects
like
who
does
that
type
of
you
know
other
partners
that
that
can
could
speak
to
some
of
that
content
in
those
ecosystems.
F
Yeah
anthony's
and
I
think
oh
gosh,
I'm
blocking
another
name
done
all
that
test
documentation.
I
think
that's
a
whole
yep
totally
spacing
another
guy's
name.
Sorry,
you
know.
G
This
looks
really
messy,
but
when
we
had
started
sort
of
brainstorming
on
that
first
slide
we
had
we
had
divided.
There
was
that
sort
of
division
between
the
community
stuff
and
the
coming
in
and
and
learning
and
wanting
to
improve
your
company.
G
So
we
hit
we
had
sort
of
started
out
with
a
jam
board
and
kind
of
tossed
ideas
around
and
the
thought
was
and
again
this
is
not
set
in
stone.
This
is
throwing
it
at
the
wall
and
see
what
sticks
is
that
someone
could
come
in
and
if,
if
their
primary
focus
is
learning,
then
they
would
come
in.
They
may
not
be
familiar
with
continuous
delivery.
Maybe
they
learn
about
that
and
they're
like
okay.
Well,
where
do
I
start
next?
So
they
they
take.
G
They
use
an
assessment
tool
to
learn
about
it,
and
this
is
all
sort
of
the
vendor
agnostic
stuff.
So
the
assessment
tools
might
be.
Dora
might
be
value
stream.
Mapping
for
security.
It
might
be
something
like
salsa
and
looking
at
a
security
kind
of
maturity
framework,
and
then
we
would
get
into
our
best
practice
stuff
here
and
then
on
the
right
side.
We
have
okay,
so
I
have
implemented
some
stuff
and
I
want
to
share
some
of
my
lessons
learned.
So
we
can
share
some
of
the
google
things
here.
G
We
can
link
between
the
vendor
agnostic,
stuff,
possibly-
and
just
say
you
know
hey
if
you
want
to
see
an
implementation
of
ml
ops,
you
can
look
over
here,
but
we
would
kind
of
have
these
divisions
so
that
people
who
are
coming
in
to
look
about
hey
okay,
so
I
know
this
is:
I
want
to
implement
something
in
the
mlob
space
and
I
want
to
see
an
example
of
someone
who's
done
it.
G
They
know
they
can
look
over
here,
but
if,
if
it's
more
along
the
lines
of
I'm
just
starting
this
journey-
and
I
want
to
know
what
I
need
to
address
then
they're
more
on
this
left
side,
yep.
B
B
So
we
will
need
to
be.
You
know,
mindful
of
making
sure
that
we're
we're
selecting
the
best
of
those
stories
and
the
most
illustrative
of
the
best
practices.
A
D
Wonderful,
better
word
where
we
like
almost
like
a
peer
review
and
there's
some
that
can
be
marked
as
okay.
This
has
been
reviewed.
We
have
a
discussion
or
we've
had
an
open
session
where
people
can
almost
like
defend
it
or
talk
through
it
and
then
once
that's
done,
it's
it's
got
a
badge
or
something
that
helps
it
stand
out.
B
Yeah,
I
certainly
think
we're
in
an
interesting
situation
at
the
moment
where
everyone
you
talk
to,
has
a
world-class
devops
process,
but
the
majority
are
also
struggling
to
see
any
value
from
having
implemented
it.
So
you
know
if,
if
we're
going
to
help
people
we're
actually
going
to
have
to
really
help
them
to
differentiate
between
what
works
and
what
doesn't
and
what
the
context
was
that
made
that
successful.
D
A
Yeah
because
I
mean
that
feels
like
it's
another
sort
of
user
goal
for
the
site
right
is
moderate,
assess
and
moderate
the
computer,
so
yeah,
so
we'll
maybe
stick
a
little
piece
to
that
effect
in
there
just
so
that
it's
in
the
back
of
our
minds.
Yeah.
D
A
A
I
B
Mean
I
think
that
the
challenge
will
be
probably
in
in
the
ml
op
space,
because
the
best
practice
in
that
area
is
not
well
understood
and
a
lot
of
the
commercial
products
that
currently
exist
are
not
what
you
would
consider
to
be
best
practice.
G
So
I
don't
know
if
some
amount
of
that
could
be
tempered
with
having
you
know
transparent
criteria
around
around
what
we
vet
in
order
to
have
like
a
badge
for
being
featured.
A
G
G
F
Yeah,
but
five
years
is
forever
first
of
all.
Yes,
the
whole
point
of
this
is
to
try
and
help
people
avoid
shows
not
become
part
of
a
social
experiment.
F
I'm
okay,
failing
if
it's,
if
it's
not
in
the
service
of
you,
know
marketing,
driven
solutions
yeah
so,
but
that
would
be
a
good
problem
to
have.
Actually,
if
we're
to
the
point
where
we're
having
to
fight
off
wait,
what
the
hell
is
this.
F
This
is
a
particularly
true,
I
think
you
know
you
think
about
a
lot
of
the
companies
that
sell
sort
of
bundled
developer
tech.
Stacks
it'll
be
interesting
to
see
you
know
if,
if
those
start
to
come
into
this
vein,
what
that
looks
like,
but
I
do
think
having
some
kind
of
rubric
like
okay,
you
must
line
up
in
the
following
ways
in
in
order
to
be
considered,
I
could
be
helpful.
F
A
All
right
so
next
steps
so
yeah.
I
think
next
steps
are
to
really
fill
in
that
user
journey
and
maybe
the
way
to
start
even
is
to
come
up
with
a
persona.
I
know
a
few
folks
are
familiar
with
working
with
personas
but
yeah
it's.
It
sounds
like
we
kind
of
have
one,
but
we
haven't
actually
shared
it
or
written
it
down.
A
If
you
folks
wouldn't
mind
just
writing
those
down,
then
we
can
sketch
out
a
little
more
in
a
little
more
detail.
What
their
actual
journey
is.
A
A
So
can
you
just
create
a
shared
doc,
or
is
there
a
way
we
can?
I.
F
A
F
F
F
D
Since
then,
I
think
we
have
discussed
them
with
this
group
and,
in
essence,
all
the
different
types
pretty
much
boil
down
to
it's.
Okay,
the
c
suite
one
and
the
developer
focused
one
with
lots
of
variants
on
each
one.
D
So
this
the
application
developer,
which
is
kind
of
your
traditional
developer,
then
there's
the
the
second
one
is
like
your
ops
person
or
devops
person
or
cloud
engineer
that,
but
the
person
focused
more
on
kind
of
the
delivery
and
operation
side
and
then
delivery,
director
and
technology
executive.
Just
two
different
levels
of
cease
of
leadership,
so
delivery
director
more
closer
to
the
teams
and
then
technology
executives
in
c-suite,
and
then
there
was
a
bit
of
a
random
one
which
was
more
from
our
community
on
on
the
advocate.
D
A
B
So
yeah,
I
think
this
was
this
was
where
we
we
kind
of
identified,
that
the
the
product
management
role
was
was
missing
from
this
discussion
originally
and
was
probably
indicative
of
a
of
the
nature
of
the
way
that
teams
were
working
when
you
know
when
we
got
this
from
from
from
our
collaborators,
so
I
think
you
know
that's
that's
one
way.
B
There's
broadly,
this
is
going
to
be,
I
suppose
three
personas
really
in
the
there's,
the
there's,
the
the
purely
commercial
perspective,
which
is
your
sweet,
c-suite
roles,
then
there's
the
purely
engineering
perspective,
which
is,
I
have
to
build
this
thing,
but
then
there's
the
bit
in
the
middle,
which
is
the
I
have
to
work
out,
what
this
thing
is
and
how
we
get
value
from
it
in
order
to
get
this
team
to
do
something
that
makes
money
for
this
team
and
really,
I
suppose,
that's
the
product
manager
role.
B
So
so
I
I
I
think
there
are
probably
three
broad
perspectives
on
this.
You
know
one
about
what
is
it?
What
value
am
I
going
to
drive
from
it
at
a
commercial
level,
one
which
is
what
what
is
it
and
how
is
it
going
to
improve
my
experience
of
delivering
this
and
then
the
one
which
is
you
know?
How
does
this
aid
me
in
effectively
delivering
things
that
I
don't
yet
know
what
they
are,
and
how
can
I
use
that
to
discover
them.
A
D
F
All
those
unknowns
right,
but
I
think
that's
where
all
of
the
work
that's
been
done,
for
example,
on
the
testing
stuff
is
going
to
become
critical,
because
that
becomes
one
of
the
number
one
questions
around
execution
when
you're
developing
this
stuff,
which
is,
if
you
don't
have
a
good
automation
story.
Where
do
you
even
start?
What
does
it
look
like?
How
do
you
you
know?
How
do
you
do
that
so
and-
and
that's
also
one
of
the
toughest
areas,
because
it's
often
the
most
vendor
driven?
F
B
Great,
I
I
think
it's.
This
is
going
to
turn
out
to
be
equally
important
for
each
of
these
three
categories,
because
when,
when
you
look
at
this
in
context,
the
reason
why
you
would
want
to
do
it
in
the
first
place
needs
to
be
driven
from
the
commercial
perspective,
and
they
are
the
only
people
who
can
actually
make
this
succeed
because
they
have
to
restructure
the
whole
of
the
organization
to
facilitate
this
way
of
working.
B
So
if
they're
not
driving
the
process
in
the
first
place,
somebody's
going
to
have
to
sell
it
to
them
to
the
point
at
which
they
take
on
responsibility
for
driving
at
now.
That,
in
in
our
experience,
tends
to
be
that
someone
from
the
engineering
side
has
discovered
the
methodology
and
is
trying
to
implement
it,
and
unless
they
successfully
sell
it
at
a
c-suite
level,
they
won't
be
able
to
implement
it
because
they'll
get
so
far
and
they'll
get
blocked
by
corporate
antibodies.
B
B
Each
of
these
viewpoints
is
equally
as
important
in
in
getting
the
success
of
this
process
and
we're
going
to
need
to
explain
not
just
how
to
do
it
from
each
perspective,
but
how
to
understand
the
other
two
perspectives
from
the
third,
so
so
that
everyone
who's
involved
can
see
not
just
their
bit,
but
also
the
important
parts
of
the
other
two
personas.
A
Yeah,
I
think
very
often
people
don't
really
understand
the
c-suite,
for
example
perspective
at
all,
and
so
they
don't
necessarily
even
know.
What's
going
to
be
compelling.
A
Right
yeah,
so
I
guess
what
are
our
next
steps
here?
Anybody
that.
D
G
Ahead,
did
we
want
to
start
investigation
of
any
kind
of
tools?
Were
there
preferences
or
requirements
around
that
kind
of
stuff?
In
terms
of
where
we're
publishing
what
tool
we
use
to
publish
anything
like
that,.
G
G
As
far
as
I
know,
it
is
it's
it's,
it
was
actually
started
by
one
of
the
folks
in
the
tech
writing
org
here
at
google.
So
there
are
a
number
of
projects
like
kubernetes
that
use
it.
I
believe
tecton
also
uses
doxy
yeah
yeah.
So
one
of
the
benefits
is,
we
have
some
precedence
and
we
have
people
internally
who
can
help
us
with
that?
G
D
Yeah,
I
think
that's
fine,
like
I
think
we
had
started
some
work
on
github
pages.
I
I
don't
think,
there's
a
huge
difference
and
I
think
it's
more
important.
We
get
started.
G
C
G
B
Yeah
the
overarching
question
there
is:
can
we
use
this
tool
to
in
a
continuous
deployment
and
continuous
delivery
manner,
and
if
we
can,
then
that
sounds
like
a
good
fit.
F
Pretty
sure
that
the
techcon.dev
is
still
just
a
repo
and
I'm
guessing
it's
similar.
H
F
Kubernetes
as
well
and
then
the
other
thing-
and
I
guess
the
toc
would
be
the
best
place
to
do
this-
I
don't
know
tracy.
Let
me
know
what
you
think
as
far
as
starting
to
spread.
The
word
don't
go
to
the
toc.
I
was
just
as
far
as
like
starting
to
spread.
F
F
Other
content,
contributors.
D
Limit
it
to
the
tsc,
but
I
think
we
can
hit
well.
F
For
for
the
next
phase
right
yeah,
I
think
it
would
be
awesome
like
I,
you
know,
I'm
proud
that
google
is
stepping
up,
but
I
I
you
know
would
love
if
we
could
get
armory
and
cloud
b's
and
and
some
of
the
other
primary
project
sponsors
involved,
if
possible.
D
Yeah,
I
think
it's
for
that.
It's
it
always
comes
down
to
what
is
the
ask
and
the
more
clear
they
ask
the
better.
I
think
there's
only
a
few
people
who
can
deal
with
the
lack
of
clarity
or
you
know
the
discussions
we've
been
having
up
to
now,
where
we're
kind
of
bouncing
all
over
the
place,
but
once
things
start
to
solidify.
H
D
Here
some
sections:
here's
where
we
need
contributions.
I
think
that
it
becomes
a
lot
easier
to
get
people
to
look
at
it
and
contribute
okay,
great
I'm.
F
The
only
reason
I
was
thinking
sooner
rather
than
later,
just
because
I
want
to
just
maybe
I'm
being
overly
sensitive
on
the
optics
of
it.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
people,
don't
the
other
projects,
don't
feel
like
we're
muscling
in.
D
Yeah
all
right
screw
azure
I'd
love
for
them
to
join,
of
course,
but
here
we
go
cool
yeah.
No!
Thank
you
so
much
just
conscious
of
time,
but
that
was
really
great
and
yeah.
I'm
very
excited
about
moving
this
forward.
F
I
was
just
going
to
say
two
quick
questions.
One
do
we
want
to
create
a
new
repo,
then
for
the
for
the
doxy
stuff,
or
can
we
repurpose
whatever
we
had
started,
just
create
a
new
repo?
I
think,
okay,
and
let
me
know
what
you
need.
I
can
speed
that
up.
Okay
and
then
really
quick.
Just
for
the
purposes
of
the
notes.
Is
it
possible
janna
nicola,
for
you
to
share
your
deck
as
world
viewable
sure
I.
F
Okay,
I
here,
if,
if
you
want,
I
mean
this:
if
you
want,
I
can
take
make
a
copy
of
it
and
put
it
on
my
personal
account.
Okay,
I
know
we
just
make
sure
that
we
take
off
any
google
confidential
because
they're,
obviously
putting
google
confidential
in
there.
I
mean,
if
you
don't
mind,
doing
it,
that's
fine!
If
you'd
rather
I
do
it
in
case
they're.
G
Either
way
yeah
I
will
take
a
pass
and
make
sure
it's
pruned
of
any
internal
things,
and
I
can
just
ping
and
chat
and
let
you.
F
Go
yeah
or
you
know
what
the
other
thing
you
could
do
is
save
it
out
as
a
pdf
and
just
we
could
just
upload
it
and
just
be
a
blob
thanks
jen,
so
I
can
follow
up
with
you
nicola
sure,
okay,
cool!
Well,
oh
late,
for
a
meeting
all
right.
Thank
you.
Everyone
bye
talk
soon.
Thanks.