►
From YouTube: CDF SIG Best Practices - Jan 11, 2023
Description
For more Continuous Delivery Foundation content, check out our blog: https://cd.foundation/blog/
A
Right
I
have
a
oh,
no
I,
don't
it
could
cancel.
I
was
gonna
have
to
cut
out
early
sweet
all
right.
A
A
C
C
C
It's
like
the
rest
of
Africa.
It
was
really
a
good
part.
We
had
this
what
the
sandstorm
yeah
there
was
a
sandstorm
there
three
days,
so
we
couldn't
see
the
Sun
for
those
three
days
because
it
was
the
color.
The
sky
was
covered
with
the
sun.
Sorry
sand
address
of
the
week
was
pretty
sunny.
B
Uh-Huh
yeah
good,
possibly
but
I've,
been
building
some
unlocks
synthesis
modules,
so
lots
of
tiny
little
surface
mount
components
to
solder
up.
A
B
A
C
This
yeah
yeah
I
have
a
post
first,
three
topics,
so
yeah
we're
having
working
on
organizing
this
around
for
quite
some
time
and
we
finally
managed
to
open
up
the
cfp.
This
event
is
organized
co-organized
by
CDF
and
cncf
to
bring
this
like
CDF
projects,
community
and
users,
vendors
together
with
the
guitars
Community
users,
projects
and
end
users
from
cncf,
and
it
is
actually
co-located
with
the
open
source
Summit
as
well.
So
because,
like
when
we
talk
to
people,
we
hear
things
like
CD
githubs
by
Chain
security.
C
How
can
we
have
all
these
things
discussed
in
one
place,
and
then
we
took
the
opportunity
of
Open,
Source
Summit
and
then
put
the
event.
You
went
there
to
go
with
the
ncf
because
supply
chain
security
clone
is
sapling
with
within
open
source
Summit
as
well
on
Wednesday
May
10th.
So
this
event
is
getting
out
of
interest
from
people
and
I
just
put
the
link
there
in
case.
If
you
want
to
submit
talks
on
CD
or
githubs
or
supply
chain,
we
can
have
a
good
event.
B
Right
is
that
going
to
be
in-person
talks
only
this
year.
C
C
C
We'll
see
if
peelings
I'm,
just
adding
to
the
yeah.
C
A
All
right,
thank
you.
What's
this
next
one
Mainframe.
C
He
actually
reached
out
to
me
John
martich,
and
he
said
that
they
have
been
having
some
discussions
within
open
main
projects
to
you
know,
have
some
continuous
delivery
for
mainframes
like
some
modernization
efforts
and
so
on,
and
it
looks
like
there
are
interested
people
within
the
project,
as
are
from
Worldcom
and
IBM,
and
perhaps
others,
and
he
asked
if
we
have
any
interest
a
CDF
Community
to
collaborate
with
them
and
I
said
like
best
practices,
it
could
be
a
good
place
to
start
this
discussion
because,
like
the
best
practices
we
have
with
another
common
tournament
within
our
community
may
be
applicable
to
Mainframe
as
well,
not
100,
perhaps
but
high
percentage
of
it,
and
as
we
were
discussing,
we
said
how
we
can
you
know
make
some
like
make
this
potential
collaboration
visible
and
attract
more
contributors
to
both
the
CDF
itself
or
the
Mainframe
modernization
and
Force.
C
One
idea
is
to
look
for
possibility
to
call
order
a
white
paper
specific
to
mainframes
quantitative
for
mainframes.
So
this
is
just
an
idea.
I
want
to
hear
your
opinions
and
if
you
would
be
interested,
I
recall
with
John
mertich
and
maybe
a
few
others
from
of
maintain
project
to
develop
opportunities
are
there
and
if
it
is
possible
to
write
some
kind
of
white
paper
to
Make
some
noise.
A
D
D
C
Like
I
If,
you
and
Teddy,
you
are
interested.
I
can
set
up
a
meeting
with
John
martich,
the
programmer
is
a
Mainframe
and
he
can
bring
to
three
people
from
Auto
Mainframe
project.
C
We
can
have
this
smaller
discussion
to
see
like
oh,
we
can
collaborate
and
then,
during
that
discussion
we
can
say
maybe
we
can
use
best
practice
seek
as
the
place
to
start
this
collaboration
and
so
on,
and
vice
versa,
if
they
have
some
other
ideas,
so
just
type
some
initial
kickoff
meetings
to
discuss
the
idea
and
then
based
on
what
comes
out
from
that
discussion
start
doing
stuff
together.
Perhaps.
B
C
C
A
Yeah
I
can't
get
rid
of
that
email
address
I've
had
it
for
too
long,
but
man
I'm
too
old.
For
that.
A
So
in
my
20s
back
then,
okay
CD
reference
architecture-
Workshop,
oh
great,
so
are
we
so
last
time
we
were
talking
about
identifying
some
nerds
to
to
actually
Implement
something
because
we
didn't
seem
to
have
one
that
we
could
just
pirate.
C
Well,
this
the
reason
I
added
this
topic
is
because
I
talk
with
many
people,
I
point
them
to
best
practice
seek
I
mentioned
the
reference
architecture
to
them
and
some
of
those
people.
They
know
how
the
communities
work
and
so
on,
and
they
join
the
meetings
time
and
some
of
those
people.
They
are
not
very
used
to
joining
the
community
meetings.
They
are
pretty
new
to
playing
this.
C
This
way,
but
they
are
interested
in
the
topic,
reference
architecture
and
while
I
was
discussing
with
someone,
maybe
I
think
we
discussed
this
Terry
two
of
us
as
well.
We
said.
Maybe
we
can
have
a
longer
discussion
focused
on
reference
architecture,
talking
about
what
reference
architecture
means
in
quantitative
context,
the
difference
between
infrastructure
and
implementation
and
what
are
the
ways
people
could
contribute
and
have
an
open
conversation
with
interested
people,
or
it's
like
just
focused
on
reference
architecture.
I
can
then
reach
out
to
those
people.
C
I've
been
trying
to
bring
this
sick
and
say
this
Workshop
is
happening.
This
is
your
time
to
come
and
share
your
ideas
and
hear
what
others
think.
So
we
can
hopefully
keep
them
engaged
going
forward
because
we
tried
many
different
things,
but
it
looks
like
people
are
still
hesitant
to
contribute.
So
that's
kind
of
an
idea
like
can
we
have
or
does
it
make
sense
to
have
this
two
hours
Workshop
end
of
February
or
something
beginning
of
March,
to
get
everyone
together
and
start
talking?
Perhaps
doing
some
work
around
this
foreign.
B
What
what
needs
to
happen
for
for
the
the
next
phase
of
development
of
the
architecture
is
some
people
to
to
knuckle
down
and
actually
start
writing
the
content
for
the
next
phase
and
that's
not
really
a
workshop
activity.
It's
that's
much
more
a
case
of
people
taking
their
experiences
and
getting
them
on
paper
so
that
we
can.
We
can
capture
and
publish
those
I
I.
Think
the
the
phase
that
we
we
need
to
get
into
next
is
building
the
business
case
for
continuous
delivery.
B
So
that
would
be
the
the
next
phase
within
the
togaf
architecture.
Structure
would
be,
to.
You
know,
spell
out
the
reasons
for
doing
continuous
delivery,
the
commercial
advantages
to
doing
that
and
then
helping
people
to
understand
where
to
look
for
gaps
between
where
they
are
currently
and
where
they
need
to
be
from
a
commercial
perspective.
B
In
order
to
then
engage
in
the
the
technical
and
systems
infrastructure
piece
is
that
they
need
in
order
to
actually
implement.
C
I,
don't
start
my
samples
with,
but
but
Perry
now
I,
like
we
discussed
this
a
few
times
before
as
well
I
when
I
talk
different
people.
Some
people
are
very
like
much
in
favor
of
looking
at
things
from
that
perspective,
but
some
people
want
to
contribute
or
willing
to
contribute
in
a
more
practical
manner.
For
example
Justin
there
was
a
thread
on
slack
as
well.
He
he
shared
his
content.
C
The
way
he
wants
to
contributes,
or
he
could
contribute
this
work,
and
then
he
didn't
do
that,
but
he
went
and
wrote
a
blog
post
and
published
on
his
own
personal
website.
So
my
concern
is
like
how
you
can
bring
people
with
like
willingness
to
contribute,
but
trying
to
take
a
different
approach
together
to
start
discussing
saying
that?
C
Okay,
if
you
want
to
contribute,
you
can
take
a
bottom-up
approach
and
then
other
people
could
do
the
other
way
and
then
at
the
end
we
can
combine
our
because
let
me
put
the
link
to
chat
I,
don't
know
if
you
have
seen
his
post.
He
actually
wrote
this
post
around
August,
but
he
hasn't
been
joining
conversations.
He
just
signed
a
lot.
Posting
attempt
at
defying
ideal
pipeline
referring
to
reference
architecture
and
so
on,
but
it
makes
me
feel
like
we
have
to
bring
practitioners
engineers
in
this
discussion
as
well.
B
Yeah,
so
these
these
pieces,
you
know
we
we
already
have
a
structure
for
this
stuff.
The
the
existing
best
practices
website
has
a
whole
section
dedicated
to
hosting.
B
You
know
these
types
of
white
paper
describing
individual
techniques,
and
you
know
detailed
use
cases
which
has
been
open
for
a
couple
of
years
now,
and
you
know,
Justin
was
one
of
those
people
who
we
set
this
up
for
because
he
wanted
to
do
this,
but
in
in
the
end
he
didn't
contribute
it
to
us,
and
you
know
clearly
he's
decided
to
publish
it
elsewhere.
B
Now
that
that's
a
big
piece
of
of
the
work
that
we're
still
needing
to
encourage
is
getting
people
to
contribute
those
individual.
You
know
the
use
cases,
the
white
papers,
the
examples
of
how
to
do
this
stuff
with
a
particular
technology
or
a
particular
project
which
we're
more
than
happy
to
to
host
and
facilitate
in
in
that
space.
But
the
the
challenge
is
that
it.
It
does
require
people
to
actually
sit
down
and
write
this
stuff
down,
and
that's
the
bit
that
we
can't
help.
B
If
you
know
at
some
point,
you've
got
to
actually
put
this
stuff
in
words
and
contribute
it,
and
that
doesn't
come
from
a
workshop
that
comes
from
somebody
just
sitting
down
and
and
plowing
through
and
writing
the
document
and
then
giving
us
a
PR
that
we
can.
B
We
can
then
review
and
publish-
and
this
is
this
is
where
we've
got
this
ongoing
engagement
problem-
that
people
are
quite
happy
to
come
and
have
a
conversation,
but
we're
struggling
to
get
anyone
to
actually
contribute
any
content,
and
we
seem
to
have
lost
most
of
the
contributors
who
were
previously
generating
your
content
in
in
this
space.
A
A
It's
maybe
because
they
feel,
like
you
know,
it's
it's
missing
too
many
of
the
best
practices,
because
inevitably
most
pipelines
are
not
perfect
right
and
it's
sort
of
a
do
as
I
say
not
as
I
do
scenario
and
that's
also
been
kind
of
a
hard,
a
hard
sort
of
mental
block
to
overcome
I
I'm
wondering.
A
I
mean
do
we
just?
Could
we
just
use
them
anyway
and
like
like
take
or
even
in
in
in
Snippets
and
break
them
out
or
you
know,
do
we
really
need
to
get
the
projects
by
and
in
order
to
use
their
systems
as
as
more
working
examples.
C
But
isn't
it
the
next
step?
Really?
The
project
piece
is
like
if
I
refer
back
to
Justin's
post,
like
the
way
he
describes
his
ideal
pipeline
is
like
certain
activities
and
checks
and
so
on,
and
then
he
applied
examples
or
you
can
do
this
with
police
agents
or
join
J
metal
test.
So
because,
if
we
start
talking
on
implementation
and
start
talking
about
individual
projects,
we
may
lose
the
contributors
to
other
projects
and
other
organizations
who
may
not
be
using
non-referred
projects.
So,
starting
with
this,
creating
a
simple
diagram.
A
I
I
right
I
hear
what
you're
saying,
but
what
they're
not
doing
is
actually
doing
any
of
that
going
back
to
Terry's
point
right.
So
if,
as
an
organization,
if
we
want
to
be
able
to
really
provide
a
body
of
work
that
is
going
to
be
compelling,
especially
to
the
range
of
people
that
we're
trying
to
engage
with
right,
I,
don't
know
how
I
mean
right
now,
it's
completely
distributed.
Tecton
has
tecton.dev
right.
A
They
don't
talk
about
best
practices
in
the
way
that
we
do
the
central
format,
but
they
talk
about
how
they
you
know.
How
do
you
set
your
stuff
up
right
in
theory
if
they
wanted,
which
they
have
not
indicated
any
interest?
In
doing
you
know,
in
theory,
we
could
we
could
take
that
and
Mark
it
up
like
okay.
Here's
an
example
of
some
of
these
principles:
here's
an
example
of
an
implementation
in
a
tecton
pipeline.
Here's
an
example
of
an
implementation
in
a
Jenkins
pipeline
right.
A
B
An
architecture
is
a
formal
approach
that
says
here's
a
problem
here
are
the
factors
that
contribute
to
that
problem.
Here
are
the
things
you
must
consider
in
your
design
process
and
then
hear
the
ways
you
can
get
to
a
solution,
but
it
never
mandates
what
that
solution
looks
like
it's
the
set
of
thinking,
rules
that
say:
here's
the
heuristics
that
you
need
to
keep
in
mind
to
get
you
on
the
path
to
a
successful
solution.
B
B
B
But,
ideally,
what
we
wanted
to
do
was
expand
the
scope
of
the
group
and
bring
in
some
more
people
who
do
have
relevant
experience
and
can
contribute
at
that
level
on
the
reference
architecture.
Piece.
That's
where,
where
we're
bottlenecked
at
the
moment
is
in
getting
some
people
who
can
understand
the
business
case
for
continuous
delivery
and
and
help
to
communicate
the
the
risks
and
challenges
associated
with
that
phase
of
the
problem
and
I
think
that
is
actually
probably
the
most
important
value.
Add
that
we
can.
B
We
can
deliver
through
that
reference
architecture,
because
it's
the
it's
the
bit,
that's
invisible
to
everyone
and
that
you
only
get
by
making
mistakes
when
you
go
through
the
process.
The
first
time
around
there's
a
big
barrier
to
entry
for
anyone
trying
to
to
pitch
continuous
delivery
into
their
organization,
because
there's
no
good
use
cases
out
there
to
really
support
that
argument.
C
And
that's
one
of
the
reasons
why
I
thought
about
this
idea,
calling
it
Workshop
kind
of
thing,
so
we
can
make
a
noise
saying
that
people
this
is
happening
here,
bring
your
product
managers
details
or
whoever
to
this.
This
is
your
chance
to
learn
more
about
this
effort.
How
you
can
contribute
because,
like
you,
I've
been
passing
towards
about
seek
I've,
been
passing
towards
about
the
world
about
Sikh,
I,
told
20
or
even
more
people,
but
those
people-
I.
C
A
C
So
because,
like
I
think
the
last
meeting
before
Christmas
I
think
we
had
people
from
like
fujisu
octopus,
deploy
and
those
are
some
of
the
people.
I
talked
about
best
practice
seek
and
reference
like
this
and
they
all
strong
interest
and
they
join.
But
again
the
wording
like
when
we
again.
We
all
want
them
to
join
the
comment,
but
sometimes
it's
too
much
for
some
people,
but
it's
like
if
you
could
Target
them
saying
this
is
happening
and
then
Terry.
The
summary
you
provide
like
or
Tara
the
ideas
you
shared.
C
C
A
I
mean
we
certainly:
we've
certainly
invited
that
if
you
can
help
bring
that
to
more
concrete
fruition,
that
would
be
amazing.
C
And
then
we
have
these
like
full
stamp
talks
coming
up,
I
was
talking
with
Laurie,
for
example.
We
have
a
talk
there
specifically
talking
about
best
practice
and
reference
architecture,
and
we
would
want
to
talk
about
this
like
oh,
we
are
having
a
workshop.
For
example,
it's
like
we
are
really
trying
different
ways
to
bring
more
people
to
our
community
and
the
best
practice
seek
that's
again.
Just
I.
Don't
want
to
repeat
that
I
said
it
is
difficult
for
some
people.
A
I
mean
yeah.
The
only
challenge
for
me
is
my
schedule
is
pretty
gruesome,
but
so
that
might
be
that's
going
to
be
harder
for
me,
such
some
on
the
west
coast,
but
I'm
certainly
open
to
try
yeah.
C
Like
what
we
can
do
is
like
we
can
take
one
of
the
upcoming
best
tracks
stigma,
things
end
of
February
March.
We
call
it
the
workshop
and
we
extend
it
to
two
hours.
It
starts
at
the
same
time
as
the
regular
meeting
time,
and
if
you
don't
need
to
use
two
hours,
then
we
don't
use
it.
You
just
animate
in
regular
time,
or
at
least
we
have
a
place
with
a
certain
reason.
You
know
invited
people
to
show
up
and
discuss
these
things.
C
You
can
check
the
calendar
Google
Calendar
like
and
see.
Just
let
me
see,
March
I
see
there
is
a
best
practice
signeting
on
March
8th.
Maybe
we
can
say
that
date
would
be
the
date
for
this
workshop
and
I
can
start
sending
mails
to
people.
We
can
start
talking
about
this
in
our
talks
and
we
can
write
a
blog
post,
a
follow-up
blog
post.
Tell
you
published
September
thing
at
this.
Workshop
is
happening
and
we
make
noise
and
see
who
shows
up.
C
B
C
A
A
No
I
I
think
Terry
and
I
are
just
like
you
know.
We
try
to
do
this
with
with
the
birds
of
a
feather
talks.
Yeah,
there's,
there's
some
kind
of
wall.
We
have
to
somehow
break
through
here
on
this,
so
I,
but
sure
I
mean
I
I.
Think
you
putting
more
attention
on
it
can
only
help.
You
have
cachet.
A
You
know
so
this.
This
might
help
hello
I
see
that
I'm
going
to
probably
terribly
mispronounce
your
name
Leora.
A
Oh,
my
God
I
got
lucky
all
right.
Welcome!
Welcome
to
our
little
tirade
I
see
that
you
are
from
Red
Hat.
What
is
what
is
your
role
at
Red
Hat.
D
You
well
already
known
in
in
CDF
and
the
I'm
actually
reappearing
after
a
long
time
that
I
wasn't
here
and
I
was
working
with
Fati
right,
I,
think
I
I'm.
B
Your
your
skills
are
very
welcome
here,
we're
right
right
now.
People
with
architecture
experience
are
just
what
we
need
to
to
help
move
things
forward.
A
A
B
So
the
we're
a
double
act
here,
the
the
the
problem
that
we're
we're
seeing
in
in
general
is
that
you've
got
you've
got
two
groups
of
potential
customers.
You've
got
the
the
large
organizations
like
your
Google's
new
Netflix's,
who
are
already
deeply
involved
with
continuous
delivery
as
a
methodology
and
who
wouldn't
think
about
doing
anything
any
other
way,
and
then
you've
got
the
rest
of
the
world
who
really
have
almost
no
exposure
to
the
drivers
that
sit
behind
all
the
decisions
within
the
first
group.
B
And
so
what
we're
seeing
is
people
who
are
so
used
to
doing
continuous
delivery
that
they're,
like
fishing
water,
they're
unaware
of
the
water
that
drives
the
the
processes
that
they're
using.
So
they
find
it
quite
hard
to
describe
why
they
do
continuous
delivery
and
what
the
decision-making
processes
are
and
then
the
other
camp.
B
They
can
see
the
behaviors
that
are
the
outcomes
of
what's
going
on
in
those
organizations,
but
they
can't
see
any
of
the
commercial
drivers
or
the
decision-making
processes,
and
so
they
tend
to
get
the
cargo
cult
problem
of
replicating
the
output
rather
than
understanding
the
outcomes.
B
That
would
lead
you
to
using
this
as
a
methodology
and
approach
and
then
what
the
what
the
key
drivers
and
constraints
are
in
understanding
that
process
and
then
teaching
all
of
the
important
decision
making
Concepts
that
you
need
in
order
to
First,
evaluate
whether
it's
an
appropriate
methodology
for
your
problem
space
and
then,
secondly,
understand
what
thinking
processes
need
to
go
on
to
make
the
decisions
about
which
tools
and
which
parts
of
this
to
adopt
first
and
what
practices
are
appropriate
for
the
problem
that
you're
trying
to
solve
within
an
organization.
B
So
we've
got
the
we've
got
the
first
part
of
that
done
and
published
already,
but
we're
we're
at
the
business
architecture
phase
of
togaf,
where
we
need
to
dig
in
and
say
right.
What's
the
what's
the
business
case,
let's
put
together
some
examples
of
an
organization
where
this
would
be
an
appropriate
methodology
and
then
spell
out
the
challenges
that
they're
facing
and
how
applying
the
methodology
helps
them
to
address
that
and
also
give
them.
B
D
Questions
I
always
tell
that
to
my
students
but
I'm
here,
I'm
apologizing
up
front
because
again,
I
appreciate
Terry
for
for
the
for
providing
me
the
context,
but
but
I
don't
see
the
full
picture.
Yet
maybe
it's
my
English,
maybe
I,
don't
know,
but
so
I'm
I
will
ask
some
questions
to
see
that
I'm
getting
it
right.
If
that's
okay,.
D
B
B
And
if
you
talk
about
continuous
deployment,
then
you
can
consider
that
as
a
narrower
step
within
a
pipeline
process
and
so
a
component
part
of
the
overarching
methodology.
B
But
we
we
take
a
very
Broad
View
of
continuous
delivery
as
not
a
engineering
specific
technique,
but
rather
a
commercial
methodology
for
effectively
delivering
product.
And
so
we
are.
B
Our
discussion
in
best
practices
often
stretches
a
long
way
outside
of
the
engineering
domain,
to
look
up
Upstream
into
the
decision-making
processes
about
defining
a
product
and
experimenting
with
customers,
as
as
part
of
the
driver
for
needing
this
very
rapid,
continuous
delivery,
Loop
and
then
also
Downstream
of
engineering,
the
impact
of
that
on
customer
in
production
and
how
you
get
good
information
from
Live
customer
interactions
back
into
your
engineering
and
decision
making
process.
D
So
I
don't
want
to
derail
the
discussion
so
I'll
just
give
you
a
comment
here.
I
think
that,
because
the
industry
that
we
are
part
of
has
so
many
terms
and
best
practices
and
and
cultures-
and
you
know
the
terminology
is
like
huge-
you-
you
need
a
huge
vocabulary
to
understand.
What's
going
on
and
I
think
that
redefining
the
terms
that
the
industry
is
using
to
something
else
might
backlash
with
us.
B
Well,
we're
so
we're
not
redefining
what
we're
doing
is
spelling
out
what
the
what
the
broad
usage
of
these
terms
actually
is
in
industry
and
we're
finding
that
in
in
some
organizations,
people
use
those
terms
the
other
way
around,
but
the
the
consensus
view
that
that
led
us
to
our
decision-making
process
on
the
definition
brought
us
to
the.
You
know
this
overarching
definition,
but
it's
probably
easier
to
understand
that
in
in
context,
so
you'll
you'll
find
it's
a
those
definitions
of
terms
are
part
of
the
the
best
practices
site.
D
I
will
take
a
look
but
again
I
I,
don't
want
this
discussion
to
be
on
that
topic.
I'm.
Just
saying
that,
if,
if
you
know
we
are
eventually
generating,
if
I'm
not
mistaken,
we
want
to
lead
a
you
know
like
how
the
the
industry
should
like
which
kind
of
policies
practices
Frameworks
the
industry
not
need,
but
we
suggest
the
industry
to
to
adapt
right.
So
first
thing
that
someone
in
a
in
a
specific
industry
will
try
to
to
find
our
information.
D
He
will
Google
it
okay
and
he
will
Google
continuous
delivery
and
he
will
find
multiple
preferences
to
continuous
delivery
and
cdfs.
Continuous
delivery
is
going
to
be
a
little
bit
different
from
the
rest
of
the
articles
that
he
will
find
and
and
the
same
way
if,
if
he
or
she,
of
course,
Google
contains
deployment,
it
again
will
be
a
different
like
the.
What
the
CDF
is
suggesting
about,
or
talking
about,
continuous
deployment
will
be
a
little
bit
different
from
all
the
other.
D
The
rest
of
the
articles
that
you'll
find
so,
in
my
point
of
view,
in
order
to
to
to
to
reach
out
to
others
with
our
information
and
to
get
adopt.
You
know,
like
engagement
and
collaboration,
I,
think
it's
better
to
use
the
same
terminology.
Even
if
it's
a
bit,
you
know,
I,
don't
know
if
it's
frustrating
or
you
know
it's
limiting
or
whatever
it's
just
for
the
sake
of
being
present
in
the
same
place
where
the
others,
everybody.
B
B
So
I
think,
maybe
maybe
you
you
there's
some
confusion
here,
but
you
know
that
that
was
you
know
some
work.
We
did
a
couple
of
years
ago
now
but
led
to
that
outcome,
and
you
know
there's
a
reason
why
we're
The,
Continuous
delivery
foundation
and
not
the
continuous
deployment
Foundation.
B
There
are
certain
there
are
certain
holdouts
in
in
some
areas
who
who
do
have
the
the
inverse
usage,
but
it's
not
the
the
commonest
utilization
nowadays.
A
A
A
B
But
you're
you're
absolutely
right
that
there
are
some
critical
pieces
in
this
that
are
almost
anti-patterns
in
in
being
successful
with
some
of
these
things,
and
if
people
get
the
wrong
end
of
the
stick
early
in
their
Learning
Journey,
it
almost
guarantees
that
they're
going
to
fail,
and
so
you
know
almost
the
defining
characteristic
of
of
this
sig
is
in
in
trying
to
provide
good
quality
information
to
people
to
help
them
avoid
the
the
bigger
pitfalls
that
exist
on
on
on
this
journey.
B
Is
you
know
he
is
the
best
way
to
think
about
this
conceptually
in
order
to
maximize
your
chances
of
actually
getting
the
outcome,
that
you're,
seeing
other
people
get
and
and
and
we're
trying
to
dispel
a
lot
of
myths,
and
also,
you
know,
make
explicit
some
of
the
anti-patterns
so
so
that
people
can
can
avoid
going
down
a
rabbit
hole
that
doesn't
take
them
to
where
they
think
they're
going.
D
So
again,
Terry,
so
my
questions
will
be
The.
Next
Step
question
will
be
a
simple
one:
okay,
which
is
what
maybe
you
explained
Terry,
but
maybe
I
didn't
understand
because
of
the
English
and
stuff.
So
I'm
I
will
ask
it
very
very
bluntly.
The
question
I'm
hoping
that
we
can
I
I,
can
get
that
a
little
bit
better.
D
B
So
but
we
have
several
work
streams
going
on
at
the
moment,
but
where
we
are
right
now
are
is
working
on
the
reference
architecture,
and
this
should
be
familiar
to
you.
This
is
the
the
togaf
model
for
architecture,
so.
B
D
B
So
togaf
is
the
open
architecture
group
architectural
framework.
So
it's
the
open
group
architectural
framework.
So
it's
the
it's.
The
definition
of
what
an
architecture
is
and
a
standard
methodology
for
defining
an
architecture
in
order
to
address
a
problem.
So
it's
basically
five
or
six
hundred
pages
of
details.
B
B
If
you
do
that,
so
it's
a
great
platform
and
it's
usually
the
the
standard
reference
in
in
most
Enterprises
when
when
it
comes
to
defining
Enterprise
architectures,
so
you
you'll
you'll
find
that
each
of
these
each
of
these
pieces
is
basically
a
chapter
in
a
reference
definition
that
tells
you
all
of
the
processes
that
sit
within
that
fat,
fat,
fat,
fat,
fat,
fat,
fat,
fat,
fat,
fat,
fat,
fat,
fat.
B
Now
today
we
have
done
the
preliminary
and
architecture
Vision
phases
are
and
those
pieces
are
published
on
on
the
website.
A
B
Okay,
that
should
be
better
now
there
we
go.
Thank
you
yeah,
so
so
what
we
need
to
do
next
is
address
the
section
called
business
architecture
which,
within
the
togaf
methodology,
is
about
understanding.
B
What
are
the
business
drivers
for
this
system
change?
So
why
are
we
changing
the
business
and
the
way
we
do
things,
and
so
it's
defining
all
of
all
the
pieces
associated
with
what
you
need
to
think
about
in
order
to
do
the
business
change
before
you
start
to
spend
any
money
on
infrastructure
or
technology
or
software
development.
A
Another
way,
if
you
know,
if
you're
having
to
if
you're
an
engineer-
and
you
want
to
influence
your
leadership,
that
this
is
a
worthy
investment.
What
are
what
are
things?
What
are
tools
that
you
can
use
to
help
make
those
justifications
or,
if
you
are
in
that
leadership
position,
you
know
understanding
the
business
benefits
of
making
that
investment,
because
it
is
an
investment
right
if
you're,
starting
as
many
of
our
as
many
of
our
companies
that
we
are
aware
of
are
like
they're
so
far
behind.
A
In
some
ways
the
amount
of
investment
is
going
to
be
commensurably
large
to
try
and
catch
up
right.
If
you
haven't
right,
if
you're
still
local
data
center,
you
haven't
thought
about
containerization,
you
may
or
may
not
even
be
using
VMS.
Yet
you
may
not
have
good
automated
testing
investment,
like
all
of
that,
is
going
to
require
significant
effort.
So
how
do
we,
regardless
of
what
entry
point
you're
coming
into
you,
know
engineer
exec:
whatever
can?
A
Can
you
see
the
value
proposition
that
would
influence
your
willingness
to
take
this
step
right,
and
so
it's
kind
of
bringing
the
not
just
the
technical
benefits
but
the,
but
but
the
Strategic
business
benefits
as
well,
because
that's
a
big
part
of
the
of
the
narrative.
D
So
I
I
understand
this
topic,
but
I
will
ask
again
the
why
question
in
the
five
why's
like?
Why
are
we
doing
that
like
again,
like
I,
understand
like
if
I
am
a
devil,
Devil's
person
in
an
organization
and
I
want
to
to
bring
to
the
organization
to
the
business,
whatever
the
the
approach
of
continuous
delivery
and
to
make
the
business
to
adapt?
D
The
Continuous
delivery
pattern,
culture
practice,
whatever
how
it's
called
it
doesn't
really
matter
so
is
like
whether
am
I
am
expected
to
go
to
CDF
website,
to
find
the
information
and
to
to
to
learn
from
this,
like,
like
a
knowledge
base
website,
so
that
I
can
bring
to
my
leaders
to
the
leadership
of
my
organization,
the
information,
so
they
take
the
the
the
right
decision,
which
is
adopting
continuous
delivery.
Did
they
understand
that
correctly.
B
But
the
the
the
specific
challenge
that
we're
trying
to
address
at
the
moment
is
that
this
is
one
of
those
methodologies
that
has
certain
prerequisites
and,
and
so
what
we're
seeing
in
Industry
at
the
moment
is
that
a
small
subset
of
organizations
are
very,
very
successful
with
continuous
delivery
and
it
is
accelerating
them
into
being
very
high,
performing
very
high
growing
organizations.
B
And
then
the
vast
majority
of
organizations
are
failing
to
successfully
Implement
any
sort
of
continuous
delivery
process,
and
what
the
defining
characteristic
is
that
the
organizations
that
are
successful
are
driven
by
a
different
commercial
mindset
and
model
to
the
ones
who
are
trying
to
approach
this,
as
if
it
was
a
an
engineering
discipline.
B
It's
not
an
engineering
level
process,
and
so,
if
you
start
by
implementing
it
in
your
engineering
team,
you
spend
a
lot
of
money.
And
then
you
still
can't
deliver
anything
at
the
right
Cadence,
because
everything
that
needs
to
go
into
production
needs
a
six-month
sign
off
from
legal
and
marketing
and
sales
and
half
a
dozen
other
teams
that
are
not
operating
to
a
continuous
delivery
Cadence.
D
So
do
we
want
to
to
make
them
like
be
I
would
say
that
I'm
trying
to
find
the
nice
words
do
we
want
to
to
help
those
deaf,
deaf
folks
or
those
leaders,
whoever
to
to
be
afraid
to
take
this
decision,
because
it's
like
it's
a
very
complicated
process
to
adopt
or.
A
B
So
what
we're
doing
is
is
just
spelling
out
exactly
what
that
decision
looks
like
and
what
tools
you
need
at
each
stage
in
order
to
make
good
decisions.
A
So
I
was
just
gonna
say
like
one
one
of
the
really
interesting
things
that
I
off
often
heard
I
was
at
Google
before
I
was
at
mongodb
and
I.
You
know
this
has
come
up
quite
a
bit,
which
is
you
know,
everybody's,
like
oh,
okay,
we're
gonna
go
we're
gonna
go
do
this
continuous
deployment
continues
delivery
thing
we
go
by
accelerate,
we
read
through
it.
A
We
look
at
all
the
capabilities
and
then
it's
like
well
now
what
right
and
the
number
of
of
places
that
are
approaching
it
as
Kerry
is
Terry
put
it
from
the
engineering
perspective
and
then
subsequently
fail.
It
generates
a
lot
of
churn
and
and
kind
of
this
failure
cycle,
because
you
know
you
can
read
the
book
and
go
okay.
Well,
I!
A
A
I
mean
I
literally
sat
in
in
customer,
where
they
were
on
round
three
of
trying
to
implement
continuous
delivery
in
their
system
and
they
were
going
to
fail
again
and
I
told
them
that,
and
so
it's,
how
do
you
I
I,
guess
the
thing
that
I
have
looked
at
this
this
project
at
is,
you
know,
can
we
can
we
make
the
the
Dora
principles
and
capabilities.
A
More
meaningful,
in
a
way
that
you
can
understand
how
it
impacts
the
the
decisions
that
you're
going
to
make
towards
execution
in
that
direction.
A
Right,
if
you
classic
anti-pattern
right,
I've
seen
it
many
times
we're
gonna
do
continuous
delivery,
we're
going
to
hire
a
devops
team
and
we're
going
and
they're
going
to
make
that
work
for
us
right
and
then
they're
like
well,
we
hired
these
Engineers
Why.
Didn't
it
work
right,
well,
I!
Think
anybody
who
has
gone
through
this
migration
process
understands
well.
Of
course
that's
not
going
to
work,
because
one
team
off
on
the
side
is
not
going
to
enable
the
cultural
changes
necessary.
A
They
don't
probably
have
the
authority.
The
leadership
isn't
willing
to
make
the
the
commitments
of
change
as
far
as
how
we
strategically
plan
our
roadmap
that
incorporates
the
ideas
of
of
how
things
are
delivered
and
incremental
changes
and
automated
testing,
like
all
that
other
stuff
right,
it's
like!
No.
What
we're
talking
about
is
actually
something
that's
really
hard,
and
we
want
you
to
understand
what
you're
getting
into
so
that
you
will
be
successful
when
you
finally
do
it
I,
don't
think
anybody's
actually
pulled
that
off
yet
right.
So
maybe
this
is.
D
I'm
sure-
and
this
is
okay-
that
we
don't
have
the
same
opinions,
because
when
they're
like
diverse
opinions,
then
the
best
outcomes
come
through
so
I'm
totally
fine
with
folks
that
are
not
thinking
like
myself
and
I'm
thinking
a
little
different
from
others.
So
one
is
that
I
I.
Don't
think
that
there
is
someone
that
can
say
that
continuous
delivery
is
not
a
good
practice.
D
Okay,
there's
so
many
benefits
for
that
and
lots
of
organization
wants
to
adopt
that.
But
they're
probably
don't
understand
what
happens
again
or
they
think
that
it's
very
complicated
or
there
is
no
not
enough
information,
and
if
there
is
information
provided
okay,
then
it's
it's
seems
very,
very
difficult,
very,
very
complicated
and
like
wow,
who
wants
to
to
commit
to
such
a
decision.
That
looks
very
very
like
not
alarming.
D
It's
not
the
right
word,
but
like
huge
right,
it's
like
a
huge
something
and
like
you
need
a
lot
of
resources,
probably
Manpower,
probably
dollars
to
put
into
the
process
of
doing
this
change,
and
and
it's
it's
hard
and
companies,
don't
don't
like
to
do
huge
like
changes
right,
it's
it's
a
it's
like
a
consider
that,
like
a
airplane
carrier,
it's
a
huge
ship
that
that
there
is
in
the
sea
and
it
doesn't
know
how
to
turn
fast
to
the
opposite
direction
right.
D
It
knows
how
to
do
very
small
incremental
changes,
one
step
at
a
time
in
order
to
do
the
180
turn.
D
So,
in
my
point
of
view,
after
investing
some
time
in
understanding,
the
lean
software
practice
I
think
that,
instead
of
like
showing
this
very
huge,
complicated
task,
that's
breaking
it
down
into
little
tasks
that,
at
the
end
of
of
this
journey,
it's
like
a
journey
and
at
the
end
of
The
Journey.
You
will
get
this
continuous
delivery
adopted
in
your
organization,
but
the
first
step
will
be
I,
don't
know
for,
for
instance,
I'm
giving
here
examples,
let's
say
a
Implement,
an
effective
CI.
D
A
second
step
would
be
Implement
your
quality
Gates
Service
that
can
track
the
the
the
results
of
the
quality
gates
in
different
environments,
see
that
you
have
like
a
very
structured
environments
in
place:
different
environment,
CI,
environment,
various
testing
environments,
staging
environment,
production,
environment,
stuff,
like
that
and
and
moving
forward.
D
You
know
like
and
and
each
step
might
be
very
easy
to
implement
and
if
organization
sees
only
the
next
step
to
implement
like
the
next
iteration
right
so
like
whatever
fits
into
an
iteration,
which
is
a
small
encapsulated
step,
it
looks
pretty
easier
to
implement.
Then
why
not
do
that?
We
don't
need
so
many
leaders
to
say
yes,
we
are
committing
to
this
step
because
it's
you
know
it's
like
so.
B
This
is
this
is
so
an
approach
that
we
see
as
the
default
in
most
organizations
and
it
it's
kind
of
known
as
the.
How
hard
can
it
be
approach.
A
I
have
to
jump
off,
but
I
would
really
like
to
continue
this
conversation
in
the
future,
so
I'll,
hopefully.