►
Description
This panel will kick off the day by talking about what DevOps is bringing different perspectives to the conversation.
Topics of discussion will cover:
What is DevOps?
What are the business impacts of getting DevOps right or wrong?
What are the challenges in implementing DevOps?
What are some key things to focus on
Tess Flynn, TEN7
Elli Ludwigson, DDEV
Mike Anello, DrupalEasy
Albert Volkman, Esteemed
https://www.fldrupal.camp/sessions/devops/panel-devops-people-processes-technologies-and%E2%80%A6
A
So
welcome
everyone,
thank
you,
celine
and
all
the
other
sponsors
for
helping
and
volunteers
for
helping
put
this
together.
A
I
see
my
role
and
this
panel's
role
is
to
kind
of
lay
the
foundation
for
the
rest
of
the
day.
As
far
as
what
devops
is,
you
know
who
we
are
and
kind
of
where
it's
you
know
where
it's
going.
So,
let's
start
we'll
do
a
quick
round
robin
here
and
I'll
start
with
the
order
on
the
slides,
although
selena
just
stopped
sharing
the
slides.
So
that's
can
you
re-share
that
slide?
Is
that
possible
celine,
but
let's
start
tess.
A
If
you
would
go
ahead
and
just
introduce
yourself
and
you
know
who
you
are
where
you
work,
what
do
you
do
day-to-day
basis?
You
know
especially
related
to
devops.
B
Hello,
I
am
teslan,
I
am
the
devops
engineer
for
10.7.
We
run
our
own
kubernetes-based
hosting
with
ci.
A
Okay,
you
do
it
all
all
right,
fantastic
all
right
and
ellie
good
morning,
so
same
question
to
you.
C
Hi
there,
my
name
is
ellie
liddickson
pronouns.
Are
she
her?
You
may
know
me
as
ekl1773
around
the
drupal
space.
That
is,
oddly
enough,
no
weird
reference
to
the
revolutionary
war.
It's
just
my
name
on
a
calculator.
I
am
the
community
and
marketing
manager
at
ddev.
We
build
an
open
source.
Local
development
environment
called
d-dev,
local,
it's
docker-based
and
that's
part
of
our
full
dev
to
deploy
platform,
which
does
include
kubernetes-based
hosting,
as
well
as
preview
sites
for
staging
and
whatever
else
you'd
like
to
do,
and
that's
all
plugable.
A
D
The
cto
and
partner
with
esteemed
steemed
is
actually
the
parent
company
of
drupal
contractors,
our
company.
Basically,
we
started
with
the
idea
of
we
had
a
large
group
of
developers
that
were
mostly
friends
and
they
were
looking
for
additional
work
and
we
had
a
large
influx
of
work.
So
we
started
just
connecting
people
with
a
consistent
stream
of
work
without
them
having
to
do
the
sales
piece
of
of
contracting.
D
So
as
far
as
development
goes,
I've
been
a
developer
for
20
years
and,
more
specifically,
as
far
as
like
devops
goes,
I'm
not
necessarily
a
devops
guy,
but
you
know
I
have
to
use
devops
as
a
necessary
evil
for
my
day
job,
I'm
personally,
a
big
fan
of
dwf.
D
I
originally
was
on
see
if
you
use
lando
and
a
bunch
of
others,
but
the
dw
is
kind
of
where
it
landed,
and
so
my
general
opinion
of
devops
is
just
as
long
as
you
have
a
process
and
you
stick
to
it
and
everybody's
aware
of
that
process.
Then
you're
in
a
much
better
place
than
most
companies,
so.
A
All
right,
so,
let's
albert,
let
me
start
with
you
on
this
next
question,
I'm
going
to
give
each
of
you
15
seconds
and
I'm
gonna
time
everyone.
So
let
me
get
my
timer
here.
A
Fifth,
and
this
is
you
know,
this
is
not
meant
to
be
easy,
but
15
seconds
to
pretend
I'm
brand
new
to
devops
and
explain
it
to
me
in
15
minutes.
Give
me
a
summary
of
devops
in
15
seconds.
D
A
Boom
yeah
all
right
ellie,
you
ready;
no
okay,
very
good,
go
for
it
on
your
mark,
get
set.
C
Go
I
would
say
that
devops
is
a
process
of
documenting
the
steps
that
you
need
to
do
to
achieve
your
goals
and
deliver
value
to
your
customer
and
then
automating
it
and
making
your
team
successful.
A
All
right
you
can,
if
you'd
like
you,
can
give
your
extra
three
seconds
to
test
says
tess
can
have
up
to
18
seconds,
though
all
right
so
tess
you
ready,
I'm
ready
all
right
here.
We
go.
Go.
A
Okay,
that
was
a
little
abstract,
but
you
know
it
fits
well
nice.
It
fits
nicely
with
ellie
and
alberts
and
kevin
hit
the
the
nail
on
the
head
in
the
he
kind
of
stole
my
line
in
the
chat
there.
But
there's
there's
not
really
one
answer
to
that
question,
which
is
what
makes
this
kind
of
like
a
very
nebulous,
at
least
for
me,
a
nebulous
you
know
topic
it's.
It
means
different
things
to
different
people.
A
So,
let's
start
with,
let
me
go
back
to
to
utes.
So
in
your
your
day-to-day
work
like
what
problem
is
devops
solving
like
like?
What's
the
what's
the
crux
of
the
issue
that
devops
you
know
kind
of
smooths
out.
B
A
lot
of
it,
for
my
perspective,
is
how
do
we
reduce
friction
for
developers
to
get
their
code
out,
and
how
do
we
make
sure
that
developers
can
do
that
consistently
without
any
difficulty,
and
can
do
it
with
a
minimum
amount
of
effort
and
on
the
on
the
flip
side?
How
can
we
make
sure
that
ops
personnel
don't
need
to
actually
worry
about
that
constantly,
but
only
have
to
deal
with
emergencies,
difficulties
and
creating
and
fixing
new
systems?
B
A
B
I
think
so,
but
I
think
that
it
also
depends
on
scale.
I
work
for
a
small
organization
with
a
very
a
very
convivial
team.
That
knows
each
other
very
well,
which
does
skew
how
that
how
that
gets,
how
devops
gets
expressed.
A
B
Do
that
that's
correct
and
one
thing
that's
important
for
at
least
our
organization
is
we
don't
really
want
to
maintain
a
strict
line
between
those
two.
We
want
to
make
sure
everybody
knows
a
little
of
each
of
them,
so
that
people
are
empowered
to
fix
things
that
they
need
to
and
if
they
know
that
something
is
wrong.
They
know
who
to
talk
to
and
have
some
idea
of
where
it's
failing.
A
All
right,
very
good,
ellie!
Let
me
let
me
go
to
you
here
next,
when
you're
working
with
organizations
or
talking
to
folks
about
you
know
what
dev
live
does
and
your
platform.
You
know
how
do
you,
what
are
some
clues
that
that
you,
that
you
see
or
you
sense
that
folks
have
an
issue?
You
know
that
can
be
solved
with
you
know
a
better
workflow.
C
Well,
probably,
the
primary
thing
is
that
people
just
don't
understand
their
own
process
and
that's
a
matter
of
sort
of
sitting
down
and
taking
the
time
of
writing
it
down.
Observing.
C
If
you're
just
kind
of
releasing
things
on
a
haphazard
basis,
maybe
a
little
ad
hoc
you're
like
oh,
I
need
to
throw
this
thing
out
into
the
world.
I'm
just
gonna
push
it
up
and
call
it
a
day
or
I
need
to
make
some
changes
to
the
live
server.
C
A
Yeah,
I
think
you
know
that's
that's
kind
of
what
I
think
about
as
well,
I
think
about
when
I
think
about
devops,
I
think
about
automating
things
that
are
normally
manually
done
and
if
it's
friday,
at
four
o'clock,
sometimes
some
of
those
manual
stats
are
skipped,
and
you
know-
or
you
know
just
by
accident.
Some
of
those
those
steps
are
skipped
albert.
How
about
you?
So
it's
kind
of
the
same
question.
A
I
know
you,
you
know
you
kind
of
live
in
a
different
context
as
far
as
you're
not
talking
to
customers
about
devops,
but
I
know
you
have
experience
with.
You
know
this
in
some
of
the
organizations
that
you've
worked
for.
D
Yeah,
I
would
say,
like
I
was
just
trying
to
think
about
what
what
devops
means
to
me,
and
I
think
the
the
big
thing
that
it's
accomplished
for
for
me
is
that
you
know
I
hop
between
projects
often
and
having
something
like
dev
and
just
being
able
to
type
in
d,
dev,
config,
def
start
and
I'm
off
and
running
is
light
years
beyond
what
it
used
to
be
bringing
a
new
developer
in
and
saying,
okay.
Well,
you
need
this
version
of
my
sequel.
You
need
this
version
of
apache.
D
You
need
this
version
of
php
redis
or
you
know
whatever
the
setup
looks
like
having
that
in
code
and
and
just
having
a
single
like
command
to
start
and
go,
and
I
mean
not
have
to
think
about
that
as
a
developer.
That's
that's
gold,
because
not
not
all
developers
necessarily
want
or
even
care
about
the
system
that
they're
installing
on
they
just
want
to
build
a
product,
and
so
it's
nice
to
have
that
kind
of
almost
be
like
a
non-issue
now.
A
D
Yeah,
I
would
say
going
back
to
the
versions
again
too,
like
if
you,
if
you
have
a
different
it
works
on
my
machine
and
then
you
go
and
deploy
it
and
there's
a
different
configuration,
a
different
version
of
whatever
piece
of
the
software
that's
running
and
all
of
a
sudden
it
breaks
and
they're
like.
Why
and
like
I
think,
devops.
It
helps
answer
that.
Why
question
takes
the
mystery
out
of
it
a
bit
so.
D
A
Right
right
right
right,
do
you
have
any
like
real
examples
of
real
world
examples
of
you
know
where
stuff
has
gone?
You
know
horribly
wrong,
because
you
know
there
wasn't
a
good
process
in
place.
D
Oh
yeah,
I
mean
there's
been
many
nights
where
I've
been
up
until
four
or
five
am
and
knowing
that
production
has
been
down
for
two
hours
and
that's
that's
not
a
good
place
to
be.
It
hasn't
been
in
a
while,
but
and
that
that's
a
that's
why
I
believe
so
much
in
process,
because
I
felt
that
pain
and
and
pain
is
one
of
the
best
teaching
tools
right.
So.
D
D
You
can,
but
obviously
every
time
you
add
a
human
element,
there's
room
for
people
being
tired
or
I'm
just
being
forgetful,
I'm
definitely
a
very
forgivable
person.
So
if
a
machine
can
do
it,
I
would
prefer
the
machine
that's
more
trustworthy
than
I
am.
A
Yeah
all
right
ellie,
let
me
come
come
back
to
you
so
kind
of
the
same
couple
of
questions
there
any
horror
stories
that
you've
witnessed
or
been
a
part
of.
As
far
as
you
know,
let's
say:
non-devops
gone
bad.
C
I
do
have
one
story:
I'm
gonna
steal
from
our
cto
who
told
me
that
he
was
once
working
on
a
live
server
like
a
top
50
web
property
or
something
and
he
managed
to
run
pseudo.
Rm
rf
well
slash
and
wiped
everything.
Basically
pretty
terrible.
C
You
know
people
lost
some
money
there,
so
you
know
the
lesson.
Is
you
shouldn't
ever
be
on
the
production
machine
trying
to
do
things
like
that
in
real
time?
So
the
devops
solution
is
having
the
automation
and
processes
in
place.
So
nobody
is
ever
in
that
situation
in
the
first
place.
C
D
D
D
E
Automation
also
helps
a
lot
hi.
My
name
is:
will
automation
also
helps
a
lot
in
turning
hosting
into
a
commodity
when
you
get
these?
These
archaic
servers
with
all
these
little
custom
tweaks
that
people
have
made
along
the
way
and
suddenly
your
host
networking
card
goes
bad,
but
nobody's
figured
that
out
for
another
week
to
come.
Then
you
haven't,
you
have
an
exit
strategy
when
you
have
automation.
A
Right
right,
right,
tess,
how
about
you
any
horror
stories,
devops
gone,
bad
or
maybe
not
devops,
but
the
lack
of
devops.
B
Well,
lack
of
devops
one
thing
that
was
a
constant
problem
for
us
because
we
used
to
manage
a
lot
of
older
sites
around
the
php
5
to
php
7
transition
and
a
lot
of
those
were
on
say,
shared
hosting,
where
you
can't
update
the
php
version
period
and
despite
our
best
efforts,
we
couldn't
get
them
to
move
to
other
hosting
that
had
updated
versions.
So
they
were
stuck
on
these
older
versions
and
sometime
some
morning
someone
was
some
evening.
A
B
A
B
A
Oh
okay,
fantastic!
So
do
you
agree
with
ellie
and
albert
that
devops
means
automation.
B
I
think
it's
a
component
of
it.
This
whole
thing
is
a
bit
like
cthulhu.
Isn't
it
it's
it's
it's
more
than
just
one
thing:
it's
a
lot
of
different
things.
One
of
the
lines
that
keeps
coming
up
from
me
at
least
is
tools.
Don't
matter
tools,
don't
matter
people
matter
the
tools,
don't
you
can
do
a
number
of
different
things
very
well
with
different
tools,
but
it
really
comes
down
to
the
people
that
are
running
that.
B
How
much
trust
do
you
have
with
them?
Are
they?
Are
they
knowledgeable
on
those
tools?
Do
they
know
how
to
use
it?
How
how
is
their
mental
health?
How
is
their
their
workload
pressure?
A
lot
of
that
comes
into
fact
on
how
that
reflects
on
the
kind
of
work
that
they're
doing
that
they
do
and
the
kind
of
problems
that
come
out
of
that
work.
B
So
really
the
core
of
my
perspective
for
devops
is
you
need
to
first
establish
a
culture
that
supports
your
business
goals
and
your
operations,
and
everything
follows
from
that
without
that
you're
just
imposing
rules
upon
some
creaking
unknown,
globular
framework
that
you
don't
even
know
what
is
underneath
it
and
eventually
you
might
be
able
to
culturally
refactor
that
out
by
imposing
process
on
it.
But
process
is
something
that
goes
on
top
of
corporate
culture.
A
B
A
So
I'm
gonna
switch
gears
just
a
little
bit
I'll.
Stick
with
you
here
for
a
moment
tess.
You
know.
I've
worked
with
organizations
of
all
sizes
and
in
all
sizes
and
budgets,
is
there
a
a
project
size
or
a
budget
level
where
devops
really
begins
to
make
sense,
and
I'm
asking
kind
of
like
you
know,
are
there.
I
know
a
lot
of
folks.
Here,
probably
you
know
some
work
for
organizations.
A
Some
might
be
contractors
working
on
smaller
projects,
but
like
is
there
like
a
minimum
project
size
where
you
know
you
need
to
kind
of
have
a
devops
component
to
it
or
or
what
about
a
project
kind
of
signals
that
oh
there
needs
to
be
some
some
all
right.
I
hate
to
use
the
word
process
because
I'm
directing
this
question
that
you
test
and
I
I
feel
like
you're-
not
a
fan
of
that
word,
but
I'm
gonna
use
it
anyway.
Is
there
like
a
minimum?
A
B
For
example,
my
own
personal
website
doesn't
need
to
really
be
automated
to
do
a
deploy,
but
it
is
the
automated
anyways,
because
I
know
myself-
and
I
know
that
I
am
way
too
stressed
out
and
fried
to
do
all
of
those
steps
correct
each
time.
So
it's
much
easier
for
me
to
outsource
that
once
when
I
go
get
the
scripting
correct
and
then
continue
to
use
that
going
forward.
B
So
there
are
benefits,
even
if
you
are
a
single
developer,
working
on
on
a
single
site,
which
you
are
your
own
customer,
but
the
more
people
that
you
add
to
a
project.
Once
you
get
two
people,
you
really
should
start
considering
doing
something
if
you
haven't
done
it
yet,
if
you're
doing
releases
more
than
three
times
a
week,
you
should
probably
do
that
too,
because
each
one
of
those
releases
is
an
opportunity
for
failure.
B
B
D
That
just
because
I
don't
want
to
go
through
the
setup
household,
but
yeah
going
I'll
test.
This
point
like
anytime,
that
there's
more
than
one
chef
in
the
kitchen
like
there's
room
for
different
opinions
on
how
things
are
handled,
or
maybe
things
aren't
communicated
as
well
as
far
as
expectations
of
how
things
should
be
done,
and
you
know
production
isn't
something
you
want
to
mess
with.
So.
A
So
and
I'm
gonna
stick
with
you
for
this,
because
I
know
you
have
some
experience,
you
know
working
in
organizations
as
a
developer
as
a
as
a
project
manager,
type
role.
How
much
overhead
does?
Does
this
type
of
automation
add
to
the
project
initially
like?
Is
this
something,
let's
just
say,
a
medium
size,
a
drupal
project?
A
B
E
D
Yeah,
depending
on
on
the
environments
that
we're
talking
about
it,
can
be
pretty
minimal
yeah
like
you're,
not
setting
up
like
a
chef
or
not
like
a
jenkins
set
up.
Also,
you
know
if
you're
already
comfortable
doing
something
like
it's.
It's
almost
like
something.
You
don't
really
even
think
about.
It's
just
part
of
the
your
process,
like
that's
kind
of
like
escaping
your
question,
but
I
mean,
I
think,
generally,
maybe
maybe
like
additional
four
or
five
percent
of
time.
If
you
have
a
good
process
in
place,
yeah.
A
All
right,
ellie,
let
me
come
back
to
you
and
I
just
forgot
the
question
I
was
going
to
come
back
to,
for
you
is
oh
well,
let's
get,
let's
get
the
one
I
that
I
can't
think
of,
but
based
off
what
albert
says.
You
know
when
folks
come
and
you
talk
to
folks
about
about
your
platform.
A
What
are
some
of
the
problems
that
folks
are
coming
to
you
to?
You
know
dev
live
for
to
solve
like?
Are
they
coming
because
mainly
they
they
have
no
workflow
right
now
and
they
just
they
need
to
get
themselves
organized
or
they
they
coming,
because
they
they
want
to
move
to.
You
know
more
of
a
kubernetes
platform.
What
problems
are?
Are
they
coming
to
you
with.
C
Well,
back
on
the
subject
of
tools:
there
are
so
many
tools
out
there
and
devops
is
not
the
tools.
So
it's
just
one
of
many
options
that
you
could
choose
as
part
of
your
devops
process.
C
Put
that
out
there
first,
but
I
think
the
problem
people
are
trying
to
solve
is
just
trying
to
leverage
that
power
of
kubernetes
without
having
to
learn
it,
which
is
kind
of
the
same
thing.
We
started
from
withdev
local
right.
You
get
all
the
benefits
of
docker
without
needing
to
know
docker.
So
same
idea,.
A
But
our
so
are
there
specific?
You
know,
issues
that
folks
are
having
with.
I
don't
call
it
like
traditional
hosting
but
non-kubernetes
type
of
hosting,
but
you
know
traditional,
you
know
I
have
a
server
over
there.
I'm
gonna
do
a
git
pull
into
it
and
move
on.
Is
it
just
just
wanting
to
automate
things
more
or
wanted
to
have
more
scalability,
more
performance
or
a
combination
of
what
I
just
said.
C
Combination
of
what
you
just
said-
and
I
noticed
kevin-
threw
into
the
chat
here
a
note
about
flexibility,
which
is
also
something
that
we're
really
focused
on
is
offering
flexibility
both
for
your
personal
process
and
to
connect
to
other
tools.
So
part
of
the
idea
of
dwf5
is
that
it's
very
pluggable
is
one
word
you
could
use.
I
guess
you
could
just
take
your
your
api
token
or
whatever,
over
to
your
ci
cd
tool
plug
in
there
just
plug
in
different
pieces
of
your
process
and
really
get
your
custom
workflow.
A
All
right,
very
good,
albert
back
to
you
for
a
new
question:
what's
the
you
know
when
you
first
started
experimenting
with
devops
workflow?
What's
the
biggest
mistake
you
made.
D
So
so
I
would
say
I
think,
just
going
back
to
the
automation
piece
like
I
remember
one
of
the
first
marketing
agencies.
I
worked
for
back
when
I
was
just
kind
of
still
getting
my
mind
around,
like
working
with
a
team
and
working
in
more
serious
environments
versus
just
smaller
projects
that
I'd
worked
on
myself,
I
think
not
being
aware
of
which
server
you're
on
you
know.
D
I'd
have
like
a
shell
open
for
dev
and
a
shelton
for
production,
I'm
happily
typing
away,
and
then
you
run
the
wrong
command
on
the
wrong
server
and
then
you're.
Very
you
get
that
like
that.
That
feeling,
in
your
gut
that
I
just
did
something
really
wrong.
I
can't
recover
from
it
cold,
sweat,
it's
like
when
you
do
get
reset
hard
head
and
you're
like.
I
shouldn't
have
done
that
and
I
can't
fix
it.
A
D
Nothing
comes
to
mind,
I
mean
I'm
sure
I
did
plenty
of
dumb
things,
but
I
would
probably
say
the
most.
The
biggest
thing
is
just
familiarity
with
the
tools
like
not
knowing
that
they
could
do
what
they
could
and
it's
just
like
using
them
like
you,
can
open
up
them
and
start
typing
away
and
learn
like
the
basics,
but
then,
as
you
use
it
more
you're
like
oh,
I
can
do
this
and
I
can
do
this.
I
can
do
this
and
you
know.
D
A
How
about
you
any
any
lessons
you
learned
the
hard
way
in
this
space.
B
I
have
done
that
before
some
of
my
team
members
have
done
that
before,
where
they're
copying
a
database
from
say,
live
to
another
server
to
another
staging
environment,
to
update
it
and
they
accidentally
overwrite
live
instead
because
they
weren't
paying
attention
to
what
they
were
doing
at
the
time
another
another
war
story
of
mine
is
when
you
break
your
entire
automation
process,
because
you
update
some
critical
component
like
I
decide
to
update
the
container,
which
runs
the
deploys
for
all
for
all
of
the
company,
and
you
include
you
get,
I
don't
know.
B
Let's
say
you
put
a
tab
in
there
instead
of
spaces,
you
know
easy
enough
to
do
and
suddenly
all
of
production
is
broken,
and
now
you
have
to
have
to
upload
your
role
back
to
ansible
galaxy.
You
have
to
rebuild
your
your
deployment
container.
You
need
to
deploy
that
out
to
docker.hub.
You
need
to
pull
that
down
to
kubernetes
and
then
hope
that
no
one
is
going
to
be
screaming
at
you.
Why
are
my
builds?
Not
working.
A
D
Actually
so
I
I,
when
I
want
to
chime
in
there
was
something
I
just
thought
of
that
anybody
who's
been
in
drupal
for
any
period
of
time.
Triple
h
saved
for
me
is
the
the
headache
that
is
reverting
features
in
your
in
your
environments
and
being
like
well,
why
is
this
feature
not
reverting.
A
Absolutely
so
tess
I'm
going
to
stick
with
you
here
for
a
moment,
different
topics
slightly.
A
I
don't
know
if
I
want
to
ask
this
as
pros
and
cons
or
maybe
just
your
opinion,
so
you
can,
you
can,
you
know,
choose
your
own
adventure
there,
but
you
know
the
question
is,
you
know,
should
folks
you
know
kind
of
roll
their
own
devops,
or
should
they
or
should
they
use
kind
of
established
solutions.
B
That
really
depends
on
the
scale
that
you're
going
with.
Isn't
it
if
you're
deploying
a
single
site,
you
know
a
bash
script
might
be
fine
if
you're
deploying
a
lot
of
them,
you
might
want
to
look
into
another
another
existing
project.
The
thing
is
that
deploying
out
drupal
looks
kind
of
the
same
on
multiple
levels
of
scale.
B
A
All
right,
so
I'm
going
to
go
to
albert
and
ellie
here
in
a
second,
but
before
I
do
let
me
I
want
to
kind
of
open
things
up
for
questions
and
comments
to
everybody
watching
so
feel,
free
to
post
questions
or
or
or
thoughts
in
the
chat.
If
you
want
to,
you
know,
turn
on
your.
If
you
actually
want
to
speak,
you
know
use
audio
and
video.
That's
fine
as
well
just
put
a
note
in
the
chat
and
let
us
know,
and
then
I'll
I'll,
try
and
get
to
everybody.
A
So
albert,
how
about
you
is
there?
You
know.
Is
there
something
that
you
would
see
in
a
project
that
makes
you
think
this
needs
to
be
custom?
This
isn't
something
that
that
we
can
just
put
up.
You
know
a
basic.
You
know
a
basic
workflow
on
like
at
what
point
is
it
you
know
a
special.
You
know
a
special
case.
D
Get
outside
of
drupal
like
if
you're
doing
integrations-
and
I
mean
the
first
thing
comes
to
mind-
is
solar,
but
a
lot
of
times
like
solar
is
handled
by
a
lot
of
these
tools
too,
but
like
just
going
going
beyond
that,
you
know
that
point
at
the
point
that
gets
really
custom.
A
You
know
running
it
for
production
without,
like
the
the
sas
map
files
and
all
that
stuff,
I
mean
that
seems
to
be
part
of
this
equation
as
well
in.
In
some
cases
I
mean
it
doesn't
have
to
be.
That
can
be
stuff
that
the
you
know
the
front-end
developer
just
knows
that
their
commit,
you
know,
needs
to
contain
production
code,
but
there's
definitely
projects
out
there.
Where
you
know
the
sas
is
committed
and
the
css
isn't-
and
that's
done
on.
You
know
as
part
of
the
process
to
a
to
a
remote
environment.
E
D
A
Right
right,
right
and
ellie,
knowing
that
you
know
your
your
organization,
you
know,
is
kind
of
in
this
business
you
know.
Is
there
you
know?
Is
there
something
that,
when
you're
talking
to
customers
that
you
see
where
you
think
yourself
wow
their
their
use
case
is
right
in
our
wheelhouse
versus
they're
doing
things
that
are
a
little
bit
oddball
and
a
custom
solution
might
be
better
for
them
is.
Are
there
like
any
specific
things
that
you
that
you
see
where
you
know
that
decision
becomes
clear
or
that
distinction?
I
should
say.
A
A
A
All
right,
so
let
me
look
at
the
chat
here:
saleem
build
versus,
buy
maintainability
versus
customization
at
scale,
so
saleem
you
want
to
chime
in
on
this.
F
Yeah,
you
know,
there's
always
there's
always.
F
Because
then
you
know,
what
do
you
do
so
your
whole
team
is
kind
of
stranded,
so
you
know,
I
think
I
think,
there's
a
balance,
because
if
you're,
if
you've
got
something,
that's
that's
built
in-house
and
you've
got
a
small
team
and
those
people
know
what
everything
is.
Then
I
think
it's
fine,
but
if
you've
got
a
bigger
team,
then
you
know
I
don't.
I
don't
think
if
you,
if
you
have
like
a
big
system,
that's
built
in-house,
then
it
becomes
difficult
to
maintain
and
difficult
to
scale
and
difficult
to
manage
over
time.
F
It
just
becomes
a
bespoke
system
and
there's
a
lot
of
snowflakes
in
here.
So.
D
A
A
A
You
know,
say
an
agency
that
agency
has
to
take
into
account
the
the
kind
of
the
the
staff
that
who
is
going
to
who
they're
eventually
going
to
be
turning
that
project
over
to
right.
So
as
an
agency,
if
you're
implementing
some,
you
know
automated
tool,
some
automated
system
involving
all
these
tools
when
you
turn
that
over
to
the
organization,
if
there's
no
one
at
that
organization,
who
is
familiar
with
those
tools
or
even
interested
in
learning
those
tools,
that
can
be
a
big
issue.
A
You
know
it
has
to
make
sense
for
for
the
organization
as
well,
because
ultimately
they're
going
to
be
the
one
taking
care
of
that
puppy.
You
know
moving
forward
so
that
that's
an
issue.
I've
seen
a
couple
of
times
where
I
come
in
on
a
project
it'll
kind
of
help.
A
You
know
well
after
it's
been
launched,
and
you
know
so
you
know
and
I'm
talking
to
the
potential
client-
and
you
know
an
agency
built
this
project
for
them,
but
the
the
client
doesn't
understand
like
the
build
process
and
so
they're
now
starting
to
take
shortcuts,
and
it
can
be
very,
very
painful
learning
experience
for
everybody
there.
A
So
ryan.
I
see
in
the
chat.
I
could
read
what
you
wrote
or
do
you
want
to
unmute
yourself
and
just
talk
about
what
you
wrote
there.
G
G
Devops,
is
your
responsibility,
and
you
know
you
more
often
than
not:
don't
have
the
time
resources
or
even
the
skill
set
to
craft
some
of
the
devops
solutions
that
we
see
out
there
today,
which
is
why
you
probably
tend
to
adapt
one
of
the
you
know:
pre-built
robust,
proven
solutions
out
there,
like
you,
know
their
panel
or
or
d-dev,
or
any
one
of
those
other
solutions
that
have
been
mentioned,
but
as
your
company
grows
or
your
team
grows,
and
you
work
in
environments
where
you're
working
with
multiple
products
or
multiple
clients.
G
Like
an
agency
environment,
you
realize
that
the
devops
experience
kind
of
has
to
like
shift
and
change
depending
on
the
needs
and
requirements
of
the
product
or
project
that
you're
working
on
that's
when
you
definitely
need
a
devops
team,
it
can't
just
solely
be
the
responsibility
of
a
group
of
developers
or
just
one
developer,
to
kind
of
get
that
done,
because
that's
when
you
run
into
trials
or
problems
with
classical
body
has
their
own,
you
know
opinion
on
how
something
should
get
executed
and
then,
when
you
try
transferring
that
to
somebody
else's
desk
for
them
to
continue
working
on
that
project,
you
start
to
get.
E
G
Developer
out
of
that
equation
completely
as
far
as
deployments
are
concerned
and
making
it
so
that,
regardless
of
whoever
the
person
is
that's
working
on
a
project
they're
able
to
produce
the
same
results
when
code
is
applied
time
and
time
again
and
that's
kind
of
difficult
because,
like
I
said
before,
the
projects
and
products
change
depending
on
you
know
all
sorts
of
different
variables.
G
So
it's
hard
to
like
just
adopt
one
product
that
solves
all
their
needs,
which
kind
of
leads
me
to
my
other
question.
What
I
wanted
to
post
to
the
panel
is:
how
do
you
solve
for
that?
How
how
do
you,
you
know,
create
a
devops
experience?
G
That's
super
beneficial
to
the
developer,
removes
any
doubts
from
their
minds
when
they
code,
something
that
it
will
actually
be
deployed
as
intended,
but
also
account
for
the
plethora
of
different
scenarios
out
there
when
it
comes
on
to
like
production
environments
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
F
To
well,
I
think
it's
difficult
to
do
right
like
to
to
to
accommodate
all
those
variables.
I
think
you
can.
You
can
do
a
80
20
system
or
a
90
90
10
system,
where
you
can
cover
most
of
the
scenarios
for
deployments
and
automation,
but
you
can't
cover
100
of
it.
You
can
never
cover
100
of
it
and
you
don't
want
to
cover
100
of
it,
because
then
you're
just
going
to
have
too
many
edge
cases
in
there
and
they're
just
going
to
get
you
you're
not
going
to
be
able
to
maintain
them.
A
I
think
that
question
ties
really
nicely
back
to
what
tess
said
earlier
about.
It
really
starts
with
the
people
right
it
really.
In
order
to
get
that
type
of
buy-in,
you
have
to
have
a
team
that
understands
the
value
of
that
buy-in
and
whether
that
means
you
know
educating
the
team
or
or
hiring
the
right
folks.
A
I
think,
ultimately,
for
the
developers
to
feel
comfortable
with
that
process.
You
know
it
has
to
be.
This
can't
be
like
developers
are
over
here
on
one
side
of
the
room
and
devops
folks
are
over
here
on
the
other
side
of
the
room.
Let's
hope
that
everybody
trusts
each
other
it
it.
You
know.
I
think
it's
got
to
be
one
cohesive
team.
A
Anybody
else
want
to
add
anything
to
that.
I'm
just
kind
of
all
right,
so
I
do
want
to
you
know.
I
know
we'll
have
a
couple
minutes
left.
I
do
want
to
ask
the
panel
one
more
question,
knowing
that
we
have
a
lot
of
developers
in
the
room.
A
Is
this
and
so
ellie
I'll
start
with
you
and
then
I'll
go
to
test,
then
albert,
to
finish
the
role
of
you
know
if
you're
in
an
organization
where
you're
still
saging
into
the
production
server
and
doing
a
git,
pull
or
or
or
something
similar
who's
best,
I
don't
qualify
as
the
right
word,
but
where
should
as
a
developer,
I
start
with
devops.
A
Should
me,
as
the
drupal
developer,
should
I
be
defining
that
process?
Is
it
kind
of
a
developer's
role
to
do
that,
or
is
this
something
where
you
go
to
a
sys
admin
like?
Where
does
devops
kind
of
fit
in
to
to
the
existing
team?
You
know
for
folks
who
are
just
new
to
it.
C
C
B
That's
still
very
similar
to
what
ellie
just
said
you
do
need
to
actually
get
everyone
in
the
same
room
after
establishing
some
kind
of
vision,
the
vision
we
we
actually
had
this
conversation
at
10
7
when
I
was
hired,
which
is
what
do
we
want
to
do?
What?
What?
How
do
we
fix
this
problem
that
we
have?
So
we
lay
out
the
problems
that
we
have.
We
lay
out
kind
of
the
direction
we
want
to
point
ourselves
in.
B
How
can
we
fix
that,
and
we
were
in
that
room
for
like
three
hours
to
hammer
out
the
initial
process,
and
eventually
we
did
actually
come
up
with
a
pretty
good
basic
methodology
to
streamline
our
entire
deployment
system
and
over
the
next
three
weeks
we
slowly
refined
that,
and
by
the
end
of
two
months
we
were
able
to
revoke
everybody's
ssh
keys
because
they
didn't
need
to
be
into
production
at
all.
A
And
albert
so
just
a
little
spin
on
the
same
question
for
you
when
you're
working,
you
know
with
with
contractors
out
of
steamed
who
who
are
being
hired
for
projects
as
developers
are,
you
know,
are
they?
Are
they
also
taking
a
role
in
devops
on
on
some
projects
or
like?
Where
does
devops
fit
into
like
the
average
drupal
developer's
life?
D
Sure
I
think
those
conversations
a
lot
of
times
start
with
well,
what
are
you
comfortable
with
and
what
it?
What
do
you
have
experience
with
already
and
then
I
think
going
from
there.
Obviously,
if
the
developer
is
already
comfortable
with
the
tool
again
reducing
those
ramp
up
times
and
crafting
a
system
that
works
for
everybody
is
is
a
goal.
I
mean
it's
cross-collaboration
between
someone,
who's
setting
up
an
environment
and
then
someone
who's
using
that
environment.
D
Like
right
now,
I'm
reading
the
book,
the
lean
startup,
it's
been
on
my
shelf
forever
and
I'm
finally
getting
around
to
reading
it,
and
I
talk
a
lot
about
like
how
you
can
take
all
this
time
and
build
this
perfect
system.
But
if
that
system
isn't
actually
serving
the
need,
then
it's
a
useless
system,
and
it's
wasted
time
so
by
having
that
collaboration,
you're,
actually
building
the
tool.
That's
that's
providing
value
so
yeah.
A
F
Yeah
thanks.
Thank
you.
Everyone
thank
you
mike
for
for
hosting
the
session,
and
you
guys
this
was.
That
was
great.
So
all
right,
cool.