.Net Foundation Design Reviews, 25 Jun 2019

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From YouTube: .NET Design Review: JSON

Description

00:00:00 - Approved: Add hard limit to MemoryInfo API https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/38821#issuecomment-505662309

A

So we can actually get something out of this meeting here. All right. Let me check all of you because last time you already wasn't connected. It's always a bummer. No audio works all right. So how do you wanna start? So we've started with this guy here sure yeah, so I just called it factory, because you didn't give me any issues so just act suit up and the markdown file should be look at something. Okay, so is that effectively is that? Is that what it is? It's the second burger you know, mr. Jason, you know singing.

A

B

A

Pooped I could have also called the Jason right that guy I just pick whatever. Whatever caught my eye in this code, snippet I'm actually glad I didn't call it some way or no for them yeah. So this is basically so we already have the Jason converter Factory, and this order yeah right, and so this is basically the idea that we have built in one freedoms. Yes, yes, and it basically converts them to strings and suppose and they're active.

C

Or function yeah, I'm glad yeah, there's a there's. A parameter is constructive as well they're there there's more detailed description on the.

C

The naming policy does is limited to just casing. So if you use an even policy, it doesn't think. Besides casing, they don't support of the we call that out. Oh you.

B

Don't support anything other than what they did know.

C

You can write your own yeah, but we only work with casing changes. So what you want to do like, pascal or for camel casing like the built in one where you want to get all the lowercase or uppercase. That's that's when we support out of the box and thank.

D

C

D

Of a naming policy here that did kebab casing, which has a slash or between words. What would the behavior be food that as casing or is that, would that throw it.

C

Would it would fail to recognize it would actually work on the way out? It just doesn't work on person. You might get.

D

Here, because you're, ultimately using you know da parts are.

C

Correct- and the idea here is that will follow up with either another converter. That's like there's performance reasons for this and also complexity in terms of 3.0, but there there are two things: one is one to either follow up with a converter that allow this arbitrary meaning, or you know the the other thought is. Is that like in most cases, you know, writing a converter? That actually does that complex of the stuff? That's simpler, just to write your own converter, the.

D

Question the question that I have about that. Is this Jason ahmen habit as it come up for them? They.

C

Do have it okay, they.

D

C

Limitations, no, no, they do not, but their their implementation is obviously much more complicated. With these.

D

So the idea is that we're doing the limited set of things and you can do easily right now do.

C

Easily right now and give give a performance support.

D

More based on feedback yet yeah, so it.

C

Doesn't allocate in the same way the other one does do.

B

You know if Jason your policy is man just for kissing changes, no.

C

In general is for anything well, that's my presumption is that's the way the Jason, the Jason, my man, one is so in.

B

Our scenario for just this converter, specifically, we are saying you only support, get similar changes Syria. How do you? How do we enforce that one? Oh, we.

C

Don't just like won't work, okay, I mean I call it. The Conda comments here aren't updated. Okay, it was like the in in the PR stuff that hasn't fully documented.

D

I mean silently failing is not a good behavior.

D

Well, there's no way to tell them.

B

They're passed through that we.

C

Would throw yeah so like we.

B

Would not find.

C

D

C

D

So it's not a silent. Failure to music got here is.

B

It a sorry figure, no.

C

You will fail to parse, okay.

E

Like what what does it mean? You DC lies whatever do we do? We give the customer just that it couldn't we, you know value them. No.

A

I get that they suggest leaking the the exception for me, other parts or are we it's.

C

A JSON exception, so the amount of our stuff. It's like try parses both we do that. Then we throw out of JSON exception if there's a, if there's not a match depending on your policy here right. So the allow integer values is the one. If you you set that to false and we don't find a match, then we will throw if you set that true, which is the default. You just get the number right you get out. The manager.

A

Okay, so what would it be so I guess the idea would be if we ever have to support something more complicated. We could always make the class inheritable and.

E

Expose it virtual or something right, yeah.

C

Or add another, we may have a different class altogether because of performance reasons, just we'll look at whatever would like keep this one fastest leave. This makes a 90% the.

F

User can also add their own converter here.

G

B

It possible for us to the future, extend JSON naming policy so that it does support more than just casing.

C

B

Just say: yeah.

D

C

Just something in policy just like says: here's a string. Give me an oh yeah. That's all that it is it just like. If you take that string and give back a string, that's got different characters outside a case that we just don't support at this time.

C

To me then, but it's it's a really common thing to like go with camel casing stuff, shall.

B

Be done through now or anything, that's name policy, that's not camera case. Or do you have.

C

B

C

B

We could look at the instance and see: is it default? Is it camera case? If not oh you're, talking about the built-in yeah, if you used, if is one of the built-in ones he.

C

Said but I don't think that's good, because I think people we don't have ones for other people like we don't.

F

C

Only have one but like like people may want on lower case I can't go to the beach we combo. This.

A

Is the thing that James mentioned right that things like XML or are the things where we don't? As we know, the correct casing, yeah, like it's a common extension point to just special case, that twelve abbreviations that you happen to have a newer data structures and they will be supported. I, don't know. The only thing that he can't do is differences that are not due to cases so.

C

This is this missing that really didn't like it. Sorry I'm. This is the the naming. Policy is really only used for serialization. Deserialization is always case, insensitive hurted, so I see it's optimized dry and look for case first, but Lee is.

A

That, in line the fossilization also works for anything else. That's.

C

How this is how the default behavior is for the enum converted report, the string, an interpreter for it. No.

A

I meant for everything else holding that properties, for it.

C

No, it's not property names, it's actually values. No.

A

I get that padeen and I'm gonna I'm, saying like what you just said about the default. Is we always do Sarah lies case and sensitively? Does this also apply when we just have a normal objecting, the basically this Eliza JSON payload, no.

C

Because there's nothing to manage, but to the properties it already means. Yes, the property names are case. Those things actually take the mate. They have a naming, ballsy applied to them ugly. So.

D

The answer is it's not consistent because property movie serialization is sensitive at fault. Yeah.

A

Yes yeah, so that's kind of my concern is that we should I mean I, am okay, but I guess either policy. It just seems weird that Internet videos have one and properties have a different one. um In.

C

This converter I mean we should be kids. We.

G

Can do another picture we.

C

Can add another pollak we can, we can add another Bregenz.

B

One is the time to properly name the others to the value in terms and here our balance not too popular.

G

Because they were saying, cult is the worst name, yes or.

A

Those in strings.

B

Yeah they're they're the value of a public value here sure.

A

Is maybe I just try if you would have to explain somebody in elevator like how we deal with case yeah.

F

A

Don't want to sit on the paragraph of caveat, so you're going to tell them like civilization works like this dissertation works like this, and then everything else is custom right. That would be believe.

F

It is because the default for new parses case insensitive.

C

Well, you kidding, you explicitly, can specify it we're based off of like the default behavior or the string, enum murder, Jason. No, that's being what people kind of expect. I said the problem.

D

Is when you mix naming policies and case insensitivity and using a different source of truth for parsing? So when you have, when you have a naming policy in place like you either you either can match with the naming policy produced case, insensitive, Lee or case sensitive Lee I mean I'm, not parse is going to be neither of those right. If we can case insensitive, Lee rely on, you know, I'm, not or case insensitive, Lee, really, basically,.

H

D

If you're using case sensitive, which is the default and if the enum convert uses case sensitive, which is the default, then as soon as you add, naming policies to the medics.

C

In disgrace, yeah, that was why it's not with White's case the sensitive. So you know the is a really a hard problem to use.

D

You know that part like: is it really a hard technical challenge to replacing them dot? Parts with something custom implies because of is basically.

G

You support flag mmm support flag. You know it's a basically explained with commas in between yeah.

B

So doing in under parse that take that does you know kissing, never work either because you're picking one versus the other simple love life yeah another course that has a bull ignore case. That's.

C

What we do we always we always ignore case what.

B

About the one why we brought on.

C

On cursing I see why record the part that does it? In our case we do first and then we fall back to the okay, linking it's like you're gonna, be the odds that you're gonna use, a name policy are pretty high or that like because that was the reason people wanted this. To begin with, that, you have like camel casing in your in your in your data stream, the one that the things that we said with the things they determined I didn't care about, were things like people using in case sensitivity to differentiate enum values.

C

So if you have lower case foo and uppercase foo I said I, don't care, which is one thing is this would not support, and the other one was saying that, like the normal scenario is that you I can see adding a case sensitive one potentially but like that, would be just adding another after we do it, but I think the normal cases is that like because of that, because you don't have multiple values on the incoming, it doesn't really matter that you didn't match case exactly if your other semantics are correct right.

C

So it's ordinal case: is it reasonable that if slight tick names is go for this.

D

Are not reasonable because of.

C

Utf-8, well, it's not a matter of ETF, a member of the allocations so.

B

What what are you conservative, I'm.

D

Concerned about the behavior and correctness aspect of like we have this one little like we've known of the system, that is case insensitive, always well. That is this case in, since it always cases case insensitive, always.

C

Stand by default, it's just a man. The matching thing that he does like. So the basic thing that happens in the JSON network is that it actually will it'll take the naming policy and run it up against the entire set of values in the enum and build a dictionary so that it can like have its own. But then it also has to do the parsing and the splitting the flags deal with as well. Okay, just.

D

A lot of allocation, and slowly so, if she's, not that is case insensitive for you know, the string converter by default I'm a little less concerned about it, because it's a it's a vetted. It's an existing vetted behavior that people have been successfully yes,.

C

This is specifically set up to match the deep. Like you pick, the Jason. They eat stringing up, converter them and plug it in because I know get the same. Behavior I.

D

Know when we were, we I met with him and James to talk through this a while ago, yeah and James had a lot of points of emphasis when talking about this feature in particular forget about that yeah, because it was one that took like many iterations for him to get right because of all the special cases that existed for he tons.

D

He wrote his own over here on his own everything yeah.

A

So I mean this goes back. Could we use even parts for the reason right but I guess the question is: does he have the same behavior or properties that we do or does he the C apply this? Basically, the casein sedative matching to all my properties as well I, don't.

C

Know how he deals in properties, but by.

D

Default so by default with the properties for Jason that he uses the naming policy to normalize and he has an optimized fast path for exact match of the normalized named Eugene, and then he doesn't case insensitive comparison. He.

F

Must spend mean they're, not property names right? These are property values, values then.

A

When I get there, it's just it's just the consistency argument of like again, if you explain to somebody how we deal with kissing right, it I think it would be sad. We.

C

Have articles producing.

A

C

Values, this is the only thing when we do anything like as far as munging them sure.

A

Because obviously, met them to attend tomorrow, so I did the same thing. If you do four fields and properties right, but we.

E

A

Was a support there yeah.

C

The property name for the enum itself is like consistent with everything else.

A

The reason I said is because there's other areas in the B cell, where kissing is not like the default behavior is not obvious right and like they differ. You know this API ever effect. This is a hairbrush like this and if.

F

We wanted a consistent approach to casing like this. We would add another option to say you know another global option to say whether you want cases, sensitivity or not, and probably also do that for dictionary keys. We don't have that either, but we just didn't do that for dictionary keys or for inulin, because we only have one boom right now. This is property name case of sensitive in theory there could be. You know, like I, said one for dictionary, one free new values and.

C

We go with this one I like given the way you actually put. You know value them. It seemed the causing more pain for consistency, natural value, the odds that you would not want. Lowercase food to match. You know pepper base. Food is probably zero right.

B

Okay, so aside, okay I think that's American, make sense to me one question I had: is you decided to add default constructor you need it, you have to have a default constructor in order to use the attribute. So in that case you should one of these are both of these be nominal. Doesn't.

C

That's that's a good question. I didn't make that that way. In this case, yeah.

B

It's just we have a different contractor already, which is actually calling in the optional parameters here. Why not make all of them are optional? Well,.

C

Because then, you're always forced to pick two of them. If you need the second one.

C

Where we died to have three constructors hi CJ, okay, it's a little weird with like.

C

Yeah, that is what, when you plug in a converter, be in an attic at least the the attribute that takes the type of per converters you have to have it default controller, okay, which is swapping the default constructors.

E

You saw me say so.

F

That's the question on the namespace um for some past discussions. We were thinking that we might have a ton of converters, I mean we do internally and we might want to move them to a you know, converters namespace um in this one case, since we only have one converter, it doesn't make sense, but we should probably agree. You know now that if we expose you know ten converters in the future that they're just gonna go in the road serialization namespace.

B

Vss previously I thought that everything with in Block C ization is customization like Lawson aerials. We have attributes that something. Where is there a bit? So it seems a nice box rather adding a new namespace I agree.

D

With what Austin said, I thought that was the conclusion.

B

So, even if you end up having a 10, that's this type has those 10 cameras plus a few attributes all for customization of theorization I think that it makes us should escape this Basin, not add I, guess.

F

When we change the name space yeah boom moved the common stuff up. It makes more clones not to have the country's name space yeah. Okay, because you don't have to.

B

So emo do you know about if it's okay for us to have optional, motapod mystery optional, even though we have a default constructor as well? Well, you would never call.

G

The before construction.

G

What I will give you effectively in Aramis, no.

A

I think in this case, it's find a compatible of Esprit to deform if there's an exact match together.

B

I

B

I

Saying if I was concerned about it, yes do we have API.

B

Precedence of like having a controllers argument, Brandon constructor Makram, address constructor and then adding one where all items option.

A

And why don't we have anything, but it's also.

E

Very recent than me gently went down that path. No I mean we're gonna we're gonna have.

C

It come up another places, I'm sure, because there's a lot of other things where you need a parameter vector for someone yeah.

B

Advice, the combining a family.

C

B

C

Totally hear what you're saying but I'm expecting this to show up more often now there's a certain view. Maybe he knows I.

A

Mean the reason for making those optional so that you can pass it either one of them yeah mm-hmm. So the reasons you want to pause in either one of them. Yes,.

C

So there's there's a parameterless constructor on this as well, which is in represented on the screen and our other constructor. All the off orally arguments are optional and that's sort of new ish and NASA was asking the question about.

C

Are there any issues with doing the ring? Any bells for you? German, don't think it's. Our other's penises are two other constructors.

E

C

There's one there's one other constructor that's brand arose prior, one is called exact match on the dash vector yeah. That's my presence as well.

J

Though just wanted a sanity, it's weird when you have, if you didn't know the default, and you had two things that had all optional arguments, because then it doesn't know if you have one it has zero or deposit. That is a of that kind that guys always win.

A

Just to make sure like you will all know, those people are visual basic code. Majority mother/son is the same effect is called.

C

Watching once you've compiled you're gonna get actually you end up a little those things baked in you. Oh great, no.

A

I'm saying when I call the default parameter, yeah.

K

It's gonna match the exact same videos right: okay,.

K

B

One thing that will be confusing again out there: now it is your values. First of all, we have to as a default rather than falsity, for what do you think about that? That's.

E

Good matching the disabilities under a tree hugger will.

B

Be flip it and negate it and say false report like adoption, I've been being 4490, the name to be the negation of allow. It is your values we.

C

Could but it would not match the semantics that people are used. That's the exact same terms, I.

B

Think keep inviting the same. Let's have the optional before us. They stop saying allowed you to write when you say like I'm.

C

Saying they use allow integer values if we flip the lead to a negative, nothing, that's different than what people are used to it's.

A

I think the the general guideline of like using default values and doesn't make more sense with default parameters, because it makes sense when you have chaining, but you basically don't see the value that is being passed, because if you reason about what that value is but like the whole point of having default parameters is both, you can see them and also we have other cases where we pass an exact. You know an exact integer value and like either you know minus one or some other specific value like a facade is, for example, like I.

A

Think the problem with balloons in particular, is if you, if you do a double negation like you know, it's very hard to reason about it. So it's like. If not, this is no integer. They just what is he going there or you're saying, if allowed, to debate it and like that? That I think is worse than the fact that we pass in true or false, which I think is nice new aesthetic problem. My.

B

Other late I had around the name of the parameter is that it does not fully explain what the behavior is because allow material values works for enum values are in the range of the enum. So, let's take, what you know is backed by a byte 0 to 255 is 1/4 to 56%, throw the DUI got sweet. That concept of other range still throws in this booth. I. Don't.

C

Know how you could making like a really long, I.

D

Mean we don't typically try to put in the parameter names what all the failure cases are right. Sure.

B

Yeah well, if I'm, just looking from somebody that allow dude your values, I, don't remember him by you- know his bed by a bike. I lost fifty seven air, spinning what Leggett! Well, what happens right now? If you get back some of certainly high number in the Jason.

I

Ritter and you can get it for me too,.

C

D

When you good proposed yeah, couldn't yeah well, I think that.

H

Assad arranged exception.

D

Seems very clearly descriptive right, like do you need to you need to know ahead of time that something will fail. Is that really important like if so, that sounds like a job for the documentation? Okay, yeah.

B

Yeah, let me got speared I just miss apply this bro I brought my brighter light. Doesn't.

J

Allow integers, it doesn't say it guarantees.

J

B

About allowing number of ended a integer, also, it's not a zoo.

C

I we could I just didn't see enough value and changing the name from what was the existing one night. That, like said, though, this is just way better. I think I'd like to put the extra tax on people that do see it and plus it's not when you picked by default, I mean because you normally normally you're, just gonna throw this thing in by default. You never actually changed the default value, so I mean.

A

This is one of those examples where else I think talks are reasonable right, but I mean I mean the other question, or what I would have is always that what is Jason Arnett do when you pass in Nevada. It doesn't actually correspond to any indicator in the unit, because it's road is it just give you the video, no.

C

A

C

Has the same thing as this allow integer values I.

A

Guess if you set this to false and I will give you 40 to you mean they throw because there's you know in a member 42. But what if there is a beta for 41 but not for 42? Do you still throw or do you just that? Are they gonna solve all Vegas to 42.

B

So, if allow integer values is set to true, regardless whether the integer was in the enum he'll allow it okay, so you just allow any anyway. My.

A

B

Point was if your enum is backed by something like int 32 but, and you pass the integer that's larger than entity to this annoying in the range or maybe.

D

A

B

Guys what the boolean! Okay! That one occasion less about.

A

Okay, so that seems like it's the same problem. Anything.

C

Else and because this is a string conversion like if you like, you need to have it actually, if you have a number coming in period, it will just ignore it unless you say a lot of inter device, so.

F

That was kind of.

C

The weird thing it was not just only does it match yeah, which is part of it yeah but like it was also do even like. If that's all, if that's turn to false, like you have a number we're not going to allow it, and there just happens to be the extra thing about it that like, if it's a number well, any number will do.

F

We didn't do we is there a policy against having bulled crude in the default. I know like just first consistency: I try to keep everything falls on the options.

A

Like there's a general desire aesthetically to do that, I think it's much more important when you do chaining, meaning you don't have to for parameters. You just have multiple overloads, because you can't see the value that the other one is passing. But in this case you know it tells you what the value is. My generally concerned with Julian's, if you play games by indicating the boolean like, for example, change allowed to disallow yeah.

A

It's generally not great and boolean variables that have indication and then because then everything else you do of them like comparisons and negations become. Basically you know the additional tax in your head to compute. What the effective video actually is, which is what Williams I try to avoid that yeah Jordan.

F

Did we are you guys saying we should change it to something else.

A

Because it's because it's basically in the affirmative.

F

Today, yes,.

J

Yes, therefore, when it's a struct field, because upgrade scenarios mean it's gonna get zero and they didn't so you need zero to be the previous behavior yeah. That's so.

B

Different I know that this API under eight primary names, are biased towards what news of Jason already has to be change to along numbers. Rather integer values. Justin are numbers, I can go either way. All.

C

Right because I could go either way with it. That's why I didn't, because it was just like it was prior hard. Okay, that was just I, didn't see enough value a number to link if it effectively does the same so.

A

This isn't what I mean that would home you're pointing out effectively is that we don't use the chair, integer and PTCL anywhere. Yes, the problem is, we also don't really have cases where we support in arbitrary business right, which is in your case. You support an arbitrary business and what basically, whatever the enum, can handle all right. It could be bite based or could be based on n64. Then you would support all of them. Yeah.

A

Well, there's one thing in common they're, all integers, but we don't have it phrasing, the framework for that now you could say you know integers close enough so, which is why won't you ok with that or you could just say it. We just stick to the Jason, the etymology, which is number exactly because.

C

The flip thing about number is like I, guess you don't know the part but like. If you have a floating thing, that's not going to work. You can manage to find it well good job. Surprisingly enough, the runtime actually supports it, but the only.

J

The mono guys say their runtime doesn't and they wish that we didn't have tests, in course the LR the tested. What happens if you do.

J

Yarn was how people with.

C

Me to remove it outside of you said it would probably great yeah popke scooters.

B

So we supported the obviously bad.

C

I

B

So but my I guess my been upon will be should be especially avoid using the same primary names in terminology as Jason on that, so that it's makes it more excuses that you're not using the same API same there, be especially, of course, never since I. Don't.

C

Care either way just like when you send a loud number to I, started thinking about the the float stuff and like you're, not very long. It's not really that you a lot of numbers. You only allow very specific types of numbers and then there's the only specific type numbers we allow our integers okay.

L

C

Like well, given that, given that it was already there with that, one I, just I lean towards keeping it how's that okay.

K

I already happy with that.

A

Good then, the next one so.

B

What is this so currently, we have beautiful, just meter, constructors they're, taking the three parameters, its final block, this reader state and the input disobey an order. Well, the proposal is to add a few more constructors that make it easy for the common scenarios where the user does not have state and does not care about re-entrance ii, and in that case they just have the data and maybe the options. So if somebody wants to read some jason piero talking about cocaine, it happens to contain common s--. Today the user will have to pass in json.

B

Data is five block, true numerator state, which contains the decelerated options. I pass that in which is super verbose, for the basic scenario can read, I'm meaning of justifying it. I have all the data in memory. It has comments me.

C

You would it be possible to add the like to take the existing ones and make it as final block true equals. True and state equals default. Yes,.

B

So that was once a book wasn't, which is keep existing. Api is just make them optional, that mystery optional. It does not solve the problem of the user. Students has to be register your state, even though it's just needing it up to pass in the reader options. The reader these.

C

Are your states, oh I, see sorry I.

B

Read those two dots.

C

That's a which.

B

Is one of the reasons why I'm like so? This is a common scenario, which is somebody just wants to customize their reader options? They don't care what state and having the option parameters. Actually optional arguments doesn't solve that problem and also be able for me soft usability study that oral arguments do not play as well as yeah.

A

In this case, also like it just makes no sense, we care about state without caring about its final block. Yes, because, basically, if you have a saying who the you are resuming something in which case you have to think about, is it the final block or not?

A

If you are all payload is in the JSON data, then cool that you don't care about final block, but then you're also good I, don't care about state, because you only have one invocation of the fact that so in that case, the only thing you care about are the office, which is why to me that these kind of are almost mutually exclusive choices like either either you have the whole payload in which case use the second one, the purple one or you down on, in which case you have to want to cross here.

B

Having over whoops yes and then I think what these is, that they are they're, mirror gesture, diner options. Api stand still has their document API that data and then options or somewhat your an option. I think it looks good now the thing that is maybe more contentious, it should be flip, is filed against state in the parameters.

J

First of all, because it makes you stop and pay attention and not look at two things that are three words that start with Jason and assume that they're the same thing because it it says the sort of Jason like in intellisense. You look at it like its title block and options, aren't the same level and and what these don't like, this doesn't make sense, is bully, and then you look at it. You're like oh, that takes a completely different yeah, so I kind of like the order and how they're actually different it.

B

Would be the benefit of swapping them? It goes back to your point that you mentioned that you usually don't even care about a spinal block is once you have straight. The first thing you do is pass images or your state and then yeah.

A

I mean to me that they just think logically they're clear, comparable right so they're, whether I specify first stayed yeah and then block to me makes no difference. Okay, I mean I, buy Jeremy's argument that they look very close to each other so having it helps if the times are like quickly differently. I'm like oh, my god. This doesn't matter at all right because.

J

It, it seems more, like I, mean first told me to find what a default would be for I. Maybe we could just flip it without setting a default yeah. No, no, but yeah. It feels like the thing that you would come to. First is oh I'm doing this async thing so I need the one that takes in his final and like that's like the only time that you want the top one is when you need is final, and so that's and then it's reminding you.

J

You also need to give me the state thing on the continuation right. So I like I, think that this is the ordinate of the things in this data. This is the mode I'm in, and this is it. This is the extra stuff that you need in order to make the stuff.

F

So I think I missed it. Where do you specify his final blog, false.

B

In what you mean, I've seen tons of scenarios or well.

F

Yeah I mean if I'm gonna new up a reader and I want its final blog falls on. Where do I specify the options and settings or I can't do it or what it's.

B

The parameter to the receptor.

F

The proposed rewriting this.

B

Is this is adding api's not remove either one? Oh.

F

Sorry, okay, so you're keeping the top yeah and you're adding the proposed so.

M

It's a certain as.

F

M

J

F

Okay, basically.

B

Decoupling the two covers into some areas. One is the.

M

Advanced area, they.

B

Have the contractor for that and the other is the basics, an area that people are used to do.

C

It the other ones, are paid of about to use. When you see actors doing exactly and she's got a blog yeah. So this was.

B

That they've seen they pay for play situation.

C

Right, why not block you so I? Don't need to know that the street yep.

J

We should have just called end of data.

G

E

C

E

B

The reason we chose a smile block is because of precedence with other ABS that have, similarly, you can see, touched off or we're fetching more data. There.

C

Was that paddle and.

C

A

This tanks flop here's for this API correct. Yes,.

G

A

Because something.

B

Probably gonna capture that yeah Levi, you weren't on that so.

E

We have overloads.

J

The the text encoder api's or HTML Jason encoding and a bunch of other things work only with utf-16 right now. There are no youtube. There are no publicly exposed utf-8 a pianos right now we're having to perform internal reflection over to them. This is a proposal to make the api's public amazing. Why.

D

Is it added a graphical manner because the utf-16 ones are also that it was my mother.

E

The reasons that it would take me way too long to cover.

A

The short answer is, you should never call them basically,.

J

If you, if you want to I, can I can tell you offline and sign up for hours describing up I have a quick question is: should it be protected instead of public protected instead of public? If it's a they give the most obvious reason it would be. Never is because the detail of the other virtual, at which point it may be, would be protective instead of public.

J

If the answer is no, it should it need x' to be called a little bit only by assam, then all mostly the reader read, the real reason is never is or is for symmetry with the UTM six. The reason the reason they usually have sixteen ones are marked is never is because they're all written in terms of unsafe, you actually have to pass emotions.

A

I mean my general sense on anything. Does whenever is like a if you ever have to call the API it sucks when it's never, because you basically have to type in no one should ever be calling mr. right like that's, but if we, if we honestly believe that the only people there ever call the API sit in this room, I honestly, don't care how miserable they are. That's why we pay you the big bucks right there. It's like what I've heard before is like some people said.

A

Oh, this is an advanced API for customers that they should only use as a fallback. It's still a sec severe could call them because the you you would never describe them, intellisense right and don't move. Never is it's kind of close to the office like hide advanced menu items. You distrust the tool as soon as you got bitten by this a few times right. So that's I will be very careful with that. If you strongly believe you should never call the API I, take it, but.

J

Part of it is also, it would be utterly truly bizarre for us to have a utf8 API. That's not marked as never and all of the real utf-16 api's monitors never like that. That would make this type.

B

Busters making it and you actually imagine never across the board- that's not making teams right. Let us mark it's.

A

A role it was just a very expensive way to tell the IDE work not to show I know. Are you actually blocked at the moment, because.

J

I believe that is a workaround.

B

Do not lightly be couple. We are reflection, just library and Jason taxation system, taxation yeah, let's not having a peer dependency like here's, a public, API surface off web encoding, Zahir the dependency or it makes it simpler to understand and verify the day peers are in the.

A

Disease eyes on texting quota right, yeah.

A

Well, what's internal, so it's not going to show up in it.

J

But again so the question.

N

Is the question is.

J

The last an answer it is, but it be protected instead of public prefix protector. How would you call it you wouldn't the question is: is it an implementation detail of the class, or is it actually supposed to be a pietà? It's actually supposed to be something that.

C

Else: okay; okay, because.

J

If it's an implementation of these healthy camp, then perhaps the better answer is this is not never and we add I'm, first, whatever or utf-16, also in terms of spam and leave the pointer. What never.

A

I mean I'm fine the way, and then you can always remove it. After balls of you all right, yeah I mean given that we don't make it this.

J

Is a very popular if.

A

You had to begin with yeah right.

J

It's just that, if we're saying this is never because of symmetry, but the other one is never because of pointers. Yeah like they're not actually cannot even.

I

J

B

J

Asking questions they're going to be add.

B

The span of char Overlord, then reconsider it'll, be the network since I do not have a need for those ap as well. We didn't we could just have them all the same time and oh yeah.

J

Yeah yeah and I: that's the question. There I mean add, find first yada yada that takes span of char make both of those not never leave the pointer. What is never because it always has been, and then oh by.

F

J

The span one would not be virtual, so there's already going to be a symmetry break between the you started. The utf-16 span. One will not be virtual. The utf-8 span one will be virtual.

J

hmm Why that it doesn't make sense to make a span one virtual if the pointer one is abstract. Oh.

B

G

Yeah sneaky well.

J

No, so it gets even better because not only is the pointer one abstract, it's Marcus editor browse we'll, never, which means, if you try to subclass this type, you get compilation errors, and you don't know why and if you're in VB sucks to be you, because we have an abstract PMDB, you you're.

G

In any language aside,.

J

From C sharp starts to be called.

H

It wakes that time.

J

He could make the point during virtual dispatch. This famine was bad. Sarah I had a proposal back in November and to fix that, and it got rejected three different times with nothing that was actionable. Okay, you think it I am.

C

Growing shape back in.

J

C

So it was good the easiest answer for.

J

What can get done in the next? You know like nine hours yeah. This is not going to get done. The next again like making.

I

J

Making it public and if.

I

Someone else wants to feel free, okay,.

J

You go through and look at the history of this type before you do that, because you were opening a huge candidate.

B

Or making these API Darren Turner public yeah.

J

So I'm saying like this is a stepping stone of doing it. The right way: yeah yeah, not the worst thing yeah, so.

A

I'll be done. Okay, boo vehicle, as well as it is, or I will begin, yeah, okay. So whatever I said it was this morning followed by URL all right, that's good! Alright! So then let me click on like a gazillion links, because I also made my life miserable.

A

Then again you are working 60 hours, two days no I found.

B

More than three hours in a day, yeah, the.

D

Perishing numbers July.

A

Oh, this is nothing I've already won. We probably a six digit number, that's what we pose up I'm joking you'll.

K

Probably get half your house I.

A

Don't think yes, I think that this is I. Think Rosen is in the 40s. Now you right so.

B

I think there's another issue: that's about time span or the next one. They both are related yeah. How about this yeah, Chinese, diner? Sure, oh yeah? Second, one right after it, it's basically considered whatever we do for your a also for transplant.

B

What whatever we consider for URI, you will do four times manager if it's about this situation, don't confuse what is this winter here, where there's look at the UI APs on the other issue, so this is. This is talking about your I, okay with lace. You have a time span. That's the transformation! Oh I,.

A

See so if you can just say this is the okay: okay,.

A

This is 47 okay,.

B

But to make sense, yeah.

A

B

So today we have on reader and writer, all sorts of api's that mimic the underlying utf-8 format and parser and to get int double date: I'm, good, float, etc. Okay, what, if you guys are what requirements show up often is me the user having disappeared. It contains your eye or less soul, nice man, and they want to get that out as well. Okay, so the require the solution is you provide?

B

Those API is on you register, read rendition writer and also this another one which match the behavior of get into get would get date time and like in all right string value with the pics of your done. Alright,.

J

So I would say for URI, given that there is no way that you can correctly transport a URI value, because you are, is the second worst thing about net whatever this morning, and this is a reference type. So there's no zero allocation version of us doing it by peeking at the data without giving them back the string, yeah, no yeah. What system errors not me to be done in the next 18 hours? What's.

D

The scenario and URI in particularly first.

N

Classes, there's.

B

Scenario, the scenario that came up is because most people like we saw we saw Jason Featherstone from YouTube, medium, etc, yeah and they have UI in their pillow shirt.

J

But it's also string, it's called a string ring is a much better version of a URI than URI is all.

I

Uri does is break your. You are okay, so.

F

Has a URI property I mean.

D

There are two ways you can go here like we can literally get back on this to everyone and say in your Jason details: do not use URI like we can get into the kitchen with our users and tell them. Our recommendation is not to use system uri and we're standing behind that recommendation, or we can make sure that the sterilizer supports your eyes.

N

With a custom converted.

J

N

Need to do anything for the serializer with new api, so.

J

Now we're pushing back on.

D

J

Idea that the serialized and supports this, what have you mentioned accessible or custom, converted I, don't even care. If it's customer, we don't. We do not need additional API in the next 18 hours and this can be punted to be next. So.

B

It goes back to the requirements or I mean aside from the time, is scheduling right, that's something we can have an orthogonal discussion about what I want to talk about is we had feedback? People had your eye in their focus knowledge, they have you either focus, but also Jason pillows from YouTube and etcetera. Have you ironed them yeah? This means that they, naturally people build their Jordan. Poco types contain your I of them. What would so the requirement was this at the bare minimum? The grammar is, the seal answer should be able to get.

B

The C lies in DC lies your eyes, so.

J

Why was the what was the first reaction? Not in could change to the sterilizer but to make a change to Jason later and Jason. I know.

B

So that Z desert already the chain is made people see that that doesn't require anything change. It's my as a potential here, okay, the sea hazard. Today it supports your eye. So what's the bar? We be responding to their feedback by supporting you and I in the other yeah.

J

But what's what's the scenario which is driving this them alright.

B

So so that is the non epi making some sanity support. You know now the solution for the reason might be adding the mother reader writer is currently the civilizer doesn't have any custom logic for all the primitive types. No, it just forwards down story right now we have breaking up the logic of what transformation of from Jason to.net does look like yeah, who sometimes see does it doesn't work? What big in types I.

J

Think that over time, there's no there's either going to be a rule that says where you we we've done the 12 times we're doing at a custom converter for the serializer or the serialize urban game things. It doesn't make sense to add absolutely everything to all of these times. Would we ever consider adding Lister to you to Jason Ritter interim writer, because this I realize our support.

B

J

B

J

Other types well, most event: it has this a new list, so we can say new uri.

B

The list doesn't work for because reader and token.

D

B

All right, okay,.

D

Like this, in the collection, the question is: are people asking for using you arrive directly with the reader and writer? Exactly we haven't heard that I.

J

Think this is just a parody across the things it's not needed. It's not saving allocations. It's! It is to me it's an easy note with real, so.

B

The users, any news of the reader either in addition document, would have to say new uri and.

J

Getstring, which is a solve that the serialize who's gonna do can.

D

Tell me it's always here: it's always safe to a minute and see people if you died. Okay,.

B

So one of the things that are based on Nick, sometimes that what I avoid doing is looking at user scenarios that come up and only solve their example on the dashboard, but also big people like what are they actually looking for I.

J

Don't the more methods we add on the reader and get dumb and stuff the less usable it gets so.

B

The push back will be the news of Jason's reader. Has these ideas for URI intention and.

J

I will say this.

B

Goes more lames.

O

Didn't I take your stuff.

J

Through data API review so.

A

I think there's also the area of like I agree with you on the bina. We should solve the problem, not the symptom, so just because somebody complains over here that might still indicate there is a problem over there and right.

A

So in that sense, I think it's good that we propose that yeah I think the the the the question really comes down to right now to effectively timeline right, because so, if you would have more time, I will be more comfortable saying you know what just just wave other people even notice that the API is missing, because I think the reader right already has a certain amount of complexity and it is kind of tweaked, for you know, allocations and other things where this one doesn't do much for you, I'll just replace comedians.

F

A

Know new gets trained, so a new UI from gets trained yeah, but it doesn't do much. The only thing that you would potentially people do is basically take the your I followed exception, rather than a Jason accepts all right, which I could see the useful, but I would also say that you know to Jeremy's porn I mean. Where do we draw the line right?

A

If we support every possible type that users can have in their payloads, then at some point it just becomes unbearable right, okay and I feel, like you know, your I I could be convinced that it's popular enough. But to me the convincing would be customer evidence which you know we can wait for right. I mean that's something we have to attack.

B

That I'm, probably finding parking for future I, won't want to try to discuss the API, and that is whether it'll be if there are 40 or not I, think or talk about the brand special I.

J

Think it is not necessary, barring users feedback to the class so.

B

This is I'm not bringing the time that cliche up in here. So here's that here's my push back I push back is yes index reader from just news of Jason, as it doesn't support all the dotnet types. This nasty piece of argument that you enjoy leave our body. Have this support the numeric types a time to it's, your I attachment? Okay right so.

J

My argument, is, you didn't do this in the initial version of the reader, given that same evidence, this is new evidence. I, don't I, don't think, there's a sufficient evidence for a change.

J

You didn't think it was important enough when you did the original reader I think that you have not convinced me that the universe is different enough, that when you did the initial.

B

Have there's a piece I'm having those api's for, however many years, it's irrelevant the.

A

Problem is you also don't have data on that? We.

J

Had data in the sense that it's super absolutely common, that it's it is more common than getstring off of off of that than sure, but I don't think it is it how Kaufman.

C

How tough is it actually just.

B

Really your eye in.

J

The deal with the exception, like the implementation of this, is trivial, we're just adding more members for.

C

Particularly over us right.

J

So this is zero difficulty on the user. This is not saving non allocations and.

F

We're going to string the string to.

A

Make a URI anyway, the.

J

Only difference is that we own an eleven Mormon.

A

May have it in their hands in the woods and.

J

The answer is, we should not own method so.

A

Maybe I have an overlay.

F

Why not, but now just just for you know, past history, we did add some other methods to the reader and writer for, like date, time and s, byte and short.

C

Short I totally get it, because those are all value types. So the reader.

F

We don't need this.

F

New thing with you all right, that's an even better reason to.

J

Not have it, oh, it.

B

Has it on the writer, the writer has readwrite value you or I in right by the penn state, so.

N

There's a dozen.

A

Either byte has on the right, but just.

J

B

Less sense you just paid you just saved it to stream the.

D

Writers, the writer is super.

A

Ballsy, because there's no good way of getting a you are out of, you are ice.

J

That screws up anything with spaces or percent encodings. Now you can say absolute, your eye, which doesn't work for relative your eyes. Then you can say original string which has its own encoding bugs. There is literally no correct api to call off of uri to get a uri out of it. A.

F

Relative or absolute and then when we write it with the original string. Yes,.

D

J

Is the closest that you can get to a correct answer, but.

D

K

Actually, a correct answer.

O

Yeah so I've been wrong in the past, so that's fine yeah.

O

B

One and more wrong so.

O

B

The nearness of dissing deuces boys no strain in there like right. Your idea, yeah.

J

It's it's the least gutsy move so like, let's say, if only original string was actually the original.

E

A

B

So, to be clear, it's not the question is not around brand lines. It's. We don't want this API unless, unless there's evidence right so.

N

I definitely prepare.

B

J

Separately, I, don't think we need it at all and.

B

The fact that VI have been trying to be consistent across rewriter expository and the Jason news of this only has on the right is rather rather is also yeah. Sure right.

A

So I will go through the list afterwards. I'm, not bothering you here, because its emotionalism the same I think for time spent right. If you voted, we sit just for you. I hold four times fair yeah. So.

J

The difference on this one is time span is a value type so technically, there's an advantage to us doing it ahead of time, but I don't think we have allocation free, parse methods on time span, so I would wait until use an escort yeah. So this is there's a. There is a rational argument of trying to stay in in no GC activity. Other.

D

Things is asking for you, the other question that I have about time span before we would do anything here is yet. Is there a format that people agree upon for time span adjacent like? Is there like, like obviously, there's an ISO format for dates that, like any implementation, supports right there.

J

Is an ISO format for time span? I, don't know if time span can respect it. Okay, ISO ISO date time people have opinions on.

D

There's generally two points of view on these things. One point of view is I'm doing dawn net and I have to get some objects over here. Hug. Let me let me do it right. The other point of view is listening.

D

Well, I really need to like serialize timespan, in a way that any client can understand of any language and like I, typically think about these things from the point of view of the latter person, whereas other people think about it from the point of view of the former person which great but I always wonder things like that, one right, I.

J

Would definitely like to if, if we're adding support for times, 2n I would definitely like it to follow standard and not just like whatever, not that calls a heart, yeah and so similar to daytime. Where we said the date time in built will follow by so eating is chasing.

A

The next supporting spoon in their mouths.

I

I think supports not supposed to, of course, together be says, err and, as you started it on right and then custom converter for somebody else won't so.

B

The question then becomes like I know. This is no API really feature, but should the see riser for time span just thing, I suppose you're right I would.

J

Say no because you are is easy, yeah, but time span again we come back to what, for my things, okay and so I think that's an easy. The serializer should not touch timespan until it's had a more thorough feature review, which means it's under okay.

G

Yes, here, I get same thing.

B

I mean it's easy, like you taking off work for three. Oh, it's easy for me! No.

F

B

The hard part is, then: the customers have to then I.

A

Mean things are additive, I, don't feel too bad about that's true, because I mean we will ship more frequent in the future, but like we are, everything is on fire right now. So that's trying to minimize the number of fire you have so that at least we have a chance of extinguishing some of them. I don't want everything 23.1, alright! So let's get this one closed, then this.

B

One already is closed, so what does that mean? So I want to bring this up as an API discussion, so we have API and the Jason C riser I take reader and just as soon as the divider and both of api's take in a instance of beauty of edges or either in youtube edition writer. We also take adjacency as your options now the question becomes.

B

This is here as options, guess honored or does the options that come with new tech ideas or either just very honored, and we have decided that the you to occasionally register I, don't forget honored anywhere. It is conflict and you have documented and such this person who had concerned about- and they were confused about, the that behavior. So I was just using this to as evidence to say. Okay, so we need discuss it. Are we happy with what we have, but what would we do right as their proposed a lot.

D

Of the guys decide about it,.

B

Okay, the only propose not an action is, we would split the serializer options.

J

Into a new type that you can give when there's already an open reader that doesn't give you the reader, deferred options, yeah I, don't think we have ever yeah.

A

I mean it's hard to review something if there's no apology, but that's it I think you may have an issue here that is worth following up on, but you know I don't want to design the solution right now right here. So right.

B

So if you scroll a little bit down so I know that in my post, I put one pointed out our documentation right for the reader. I know API, which says we honor the leader options over the shares options.

B

The decent reader options are struck so that the person doesn't have to worry about, moving it up and they kill a guy right. Is there anything around documentation or this API that we would change.

I

J

Guess the the easy question right now is how many options exist that are not those three on the serialize Rob. Is it more than two? They are not mystery. The three that are collected are there more than two options on Jason serializer options that are not these things.

J

Yes, yeah and you know we need the hose a lot and therefore this is the best one. Yeah.

M

Everything out if it was only.

N

E

Balloons classes that were going near me or not.

M

B

What is this Steve.

F

Jeremy, were you thinking about creating the columns option class across all three or four nodes.

M

Or not, if jason.

J

Serializer options was currently consisting of these three options, plus one or two more in this overload could take only those extra two options and myself up manually, it's more than that, so we wouldn't make it long overload. We would make a cut options. Type we've done that it has some options that aren't respected. In some scenarios, we've documented it I think that's the best. We're gonna do.

A

I mean this seems like an interval conflict that you can't resolve with API design. You.

F

A

You know either the green layer they architecture to avoid the conflict, but I'm not sure how that would I.

B

Mean one solution was that we remove just as soon as the options from the API altogether, but then how you configure the CLM yeah.

J

You can't you, then can't give the the things in lieu of attributes in.

B

Keep in mind, we use the API specifically, but they drop.

J

You already have one.

A

So keep in mind, urgency of the options was designed to be a class. We can also do caching right so that you move that whole thing of like. Where do we the store a state? Now? Yes, so, like.

F

Yeah we'd have to separate the two I mean the options versus the state, and then we could have a common options across you know reader writer document, sterilizer and yeah. Some of those settings would be used. I.

J

Mean, alternatively, you take these the reader options off of two rows or options, and you make the other API is take in two sets of options. That would be the other API fix unless you want to do that. I think this is as good as winning again I mean.

A

The people that yet I mean I think originally we considered that as well, but and very less intuitive people just want to be able to see that they don't wanna do with the video writer at all. Well,.

J

A

Originally had.

J

The reader options with a property officer, dollar direction, yeah.

A

Exactly I mean, if you wanted to, let me know, because people don't care yeah, yeah.

F

The main scenario that someone's gonna get a reader and want to come back in the sterilizer is from a call back and we're gonna have and then the reader that has the same options as a serializer because we constructed the reader to begin with or the steriliser constructed. Okay, so I don't think this issue is maybe as common as it might seem. Yeah.

B

J

B

J

Only the the easy API things are, you you crack the one type into two possible. The two types are adjacency: realize your options and Jason reader options, and if that feels unappealing on the other API is then this one is the one that suffers.

J

I think it's powerful yeah.

B

Just to clarify this issue was closed an hour ago, so the person was okay with the fact now that I'll explain whether all that much shine his way. Okay, that's one. Okay,.

B

You might actually go through your list. This is the same issue as the last one. So before this fashion, this one is in a better format, yeah so effectively by on this reader state. We have piece for companies, the other ones are used or continuation, and for the reader to continue and getting more data, and we continue reading to the metrical. The there's two properties here- bicycles, fuel and position, which the reader does not restore from the distributor state, because those are specific to input data that wash them since you've been.

B

um You were just meter. You pass a new input data anyway, we don't honor the bison single picture from the solution, so one solution: what are they used for yeah, so yeah? So one solution was: is we remove these two options you can make? Clearly, these two population means to come back clearly that we do not honor them on P entry, and so what they're used for is to convey to the on the outside of the async context, how much data was consumed from the immaterial you give me is.

F

J

B

They can slice the data, but so.

J

They have to slice off any data that was already read before they resume the read. Yes,.

B

So if your school don't have a sample, you don't here, but this is what users going to look like. Let's say from reading for our pie: reader. They pass in this video sequence to the reader constructor and their user then has to call get current current state and then the async method to advance the leader by the Seekers person that they were both given with a state opposition.

B

That's what they release for the on the reader state, because you said you'd ever just read: resurrection I mean.

J

The sample is unclear that that you're, not that the read only sequence, isn't starting at the same place again with you.

B

But every time you get a read even seek us from the reader is a new year of zeroes I.

J

Mean you know, I, don't know this a because, oh no all I see is you have a thing that takes a read on the sequence. I assume it's the same one with longer data every time so.

B

If that's not the case, so if you see my reader door really I think it returns a result read result, and then you have read a wizard buffer that it has the view any sequence visiting positive. So the only reason why we have this on the state is so that the user does not have to do their own manual, passing of state information that they need for slicing or getting more data, because the real estate is survived across a-c bondrée, where the readers are does not.

J

If, if giving the same, data in the same state into the reader does not put the reader in the same state yeah, then that seems like a problem and if you make it very clear that those aren't part of the state, then by removing them, then yes, it's your job to get them from the place you get them, which is off the rear instead of another reader state right.

B

So the use of them then have to make sure to get it from the reader and a shuffle it back to whichever isn't written down. Yeah.

J

Like all of our things that process pan and out in the number of my favorite- yes, it's exact symmetry with the distance, nothing you paralyze.

F

What have to be by very.

J

Good mistake: yeah I'm.

B

Sumer, so you go for it: okay,.

F

The serialize would have to change a little bit too to make sure that could float for everyone. Well,.

J

Yeah I'd be a breaking change. Yeah you'd find that out real quick when it doesn't compile. Yes,.

M

B

Because that that contains all the things that are required.

N

Internally, how many open.

J

Curly's, do you have how.

M

J

I

Is it is a skinny grab bag of stay like that, so it so it Jason reader state just becomes an opaque thing at that. All right has one more I think it's like.

J

Read: options: options. It has options right, oh because that's where you currently pass them as input yeah, yes, okay, yeah, I, think I think either the reader needs to respect the values which breaks one set of scenarios or you should get rid of them off of the state which makes a second to order, but doesn't reckon him. I prefer the clarity with.

C

Our two pole stock- now god it's not too terribly hard to do this so.

B

I mean the two corners: don't even I had written. That way. When I asked for you to write it, he his method was in line basic, so he was, he had a consume aggregate come integer. She would just add to the reader door by so soon it seems so he do. You have to go to the devil. Yeah.

C

I mean there's multiple yeah I'm, just saying I like doing this sort of thing is a lot easier now than it used to be. You'd have to go and create some arbitrary type to write.

C

Pretty pretty easily and I.

B

Mean for Steve for your scenario, things.

C

Go together, these properties could.

B

Be internal like, like I, can keep this on your State DOT bytes concealment. Current state has internal for the. If it is convenient for the in the British of the C Lizer.

J

Yeah and see he can make this really so that it's not cheating too much yeah yeah yeah, exactly I mean.

B

The only about, if it becomes immediately then yep, yeah.

J

B

So and then the other issue that was related was the person actually wanted. These parties removed because the person expectations or embossing destroy your estate by not honoring all the things about this ownership.

B

Just become less the options well now,.

J

I know why I never hit this, because the doctorate requires that you give it all the data front. That's right, I, don't actually.

B

J

B

You have ever had this final block two legs, oh yeah, yeah. So.

M

The Hoosiers.

B

Remove options and position no position and the bus, the zoom option, states yeah, so.

A

The only one that I couldn't have this the.

B

Parts consumed and the position so bicycle series used. If you have span data course slicing that and positions use for slicing the read any signals both.

J

Of which are already exposed under yeah.

B

What I expose on the reader and decided by the initial reason I open this issue actually was if somebody is Astro shuttle the linear state across in a big boundary having less things on the deserve. Your state makes the heat election smaller. One of my initial reason why I issued a fog this issue months back remove those two properties.

B

It also works better in the Tamiya communicating what the restore is like right.

A

Down is this onion yes well, and then this one is the same ones. So it's basically resolve these two from the other one, yes, I think either does.

G

That, assuming.

J

The suggestion was removed those two properties yeah, yes,.

G

Hold on which one I just closed.

G

G

G

Oh, if you can close this one here,.

G

Right, oh, this is.

A

Really, okay, and so this is not the one. This is not really.

G

A

G

B

B

All right, don't wait for Jeremy or you know, I think you could go um so today we have Jason token type, which is an enum backed by a byte as regular. You know lot of flags, you know the well. This person requested that it be a flag near finish, on make adapt to the flag, so that checks, like is my token time. A boolean can be made faster. Always my pocket I've little uniform.

B

The interesting thing is, first of all, our enum is backed by a bite, so I don't think we came and do the flags. Given me a more than eight more than eight pop made enum values. Well then, then, the question becomes: do we change the backing back from by two in and make this truck larger? So that's the trade off and the second thing is bait. The way he is written is a boolean and literal checks. The maybe had ordered the token types.

B

Both of those can be done this as fast as well, a single egg, if chocolate so I'm, not an expert but.

G

It seems to me that if we really wanted to do that, we could still do that later.

B

You know how children are now use: yeah cuz, you changing the values that the.

C

Plea so the the values now or well.

B

You would change the minutes to.

C

B

This becomes 1.

C

And you can't even fit them in yeah. I was.

A

Thinking you can I make the enum larger because, technically speaking, is the same. Instructing I had to feel to a struct. Well, yeah, it's a breaking change but yeah. Maybe it's okay! Oh yeah! The innovators.

E

Would definitely be a general with breakage, oh yeah, we don't want to change one bite into the future. Yeah.

A

That seems like something you want to measure right. Like I mean it's a sense, make some things easier and some things faster, but very friendly for true/false I'm, not buying that yeah string number boolean now, maybe, but even there.

B

It seems to me, like the thing is, for his literal check: I have helpers myself that are just as fast because they are laid out the question. So if you see look at the string number boolean false now bow your number done. They're made up sequentially in order and not just look it up today, so you could do a rain check. You have to see I had you. Are you a little let's just as fast as doing this bit flag or so is.

A

B

A

Know subtraction and then like once I.

J

Mean the fact that you put comment after null means, if Jason had to do literal type and before they had comments that you're literal check a screw. But.

C

Well, you would you, could you would home.

P

C

Built like a really high value.

J

Used but he left it extending tonight, which means it's already over food yeah.

B

That's what we do.

I

B

That's a his Flags approach already makes up trade-off between making a enum larger and now the strong I.

J

Believe somewhere we have a guideline that says: don't use my existing opinion. There.

C

May be spices no, and the other thing is here is. We could also like be providing me the helper api's, for this could do it quickly or.

J

Yeah I mean we have them internally. I can.

C

We can look at making them public.

J

Yet the problem on a bunch of this is like what does it? What does it mean if you ever see start object or property Lee thing? That literally means nothing and I'm an API that took a token type now has to do a bunch of only one bit several had to be said, and so like this.

J

This is maybe optimizing some code path, but at the expense of API declare. Yet.

B

What it makes sense to add a PS and I think is literally there. You add extensions on.

G

I would I would say not right now. Yeah yeah, like oh.

C

Yeah, but like good, that's what the discussion should be pushed to is like we already have internal things that do this fast. You can copy this thing. We can start the discussion about like trying to make these things public right, and we should also look at mmm his comment on comment and make sure that it's not like butt up straight against normal. It.

B

Is today so what used your thinking if Jason introduces a new token assumed.

J

In the next version of a club or there's a new RFC and they add a new literal, we are a new single token literal yeah. Your range check, for is this a single token. Literal is no busted.

B

The alternative point would be if they made comment a little having them it next to the list of literals yeah, so move it between property name is ring.

J

I, just don't don't block yourself forward, leave one exit early, one access open. If you move it to 255, then you have a mid range and you can come back if you move it to I and move the others down you you like, if your, if your thing is, you want to keep all the literals together, keep them together. You just don't have to put comment coming after them. It makes sense to come and came after them is an afterthought, but you don't have to do that.

J

You know if you want to do that, you need an API approved, breaking change. The next. You know 19 hours.

I

F

Question on using bite, I want to be faster, just use the end. I mean cuz of memory alignment not.

B

Always, and in this case, it was chosen by to reduce the size of the online shop.

F

But I think the starts gonna line normally on 16. Unless you do para they'll.

B

Be a more than one bite in this truck, so this, if you look at the structure for you, difference rear end like that. It actually helps with the alignment, because you have two bites there, like a compressed. No.

F

Iii think the linemen per bite is 16, like you know,.

C

Fall, it will fall if there's another bite following about the wall right next to each other and.

B

Includes bulls: we have bulls via bites, the, if compresses nicely. If you have it.

C

That's a nice about quitting of the time. Look.

J

If you have a bull or if you have a bite followed by pointer, followed by a bite followed by a pointer, then that's the for tangible size of pointer. Yes, if you have bite bite pointer pointer, that's only three point: that's a yeah.

B

So we actually laid out the spot fields. However much we could that's what I it compresses better now. So if I were to Steve just.

C

B

Most party Muslim.

C

Group is considered.

B

May exist, toka time is back by an eight, then the strap size will grow by like eight or something.

F

Who's, your Tyler, that's weird, I'm reading the MSDN dog and their their example is inconsistent.

J

If you're looking at any of the layouts, you need to look at the one for sequential, because, even though you would assume Auto is the default packing for value types.

J

Sequential is the default protecting yeah, they're pro layout, okay, okay,.

L

Continue there so.

A

That okay baby said yeah, so if you want to do the common thing, yeah just shoot us an email. I came in the honesty like if you just change one video like I, don't care what the video is like I mean that to me. Is it yeah? That's an API change, but I give you change. You don't know five to six or five to twelve or what I don't care like document.

J

Given that there are already other breaking changes, yeah between preview, six and preview, seven, including that you've already read over another email yeah, this.

A

Is the time yeah move.

J

A

Alright, so this one so.

B

We had approved the bite as by view short short or API, so on get ohmmeter. This is about talk about Charlotte. We left journal aside to ask for what use of gesture does and what James things and.

H

B

James just calls taro to string for writing and for reading he just converts from s to type of job.

J

So what does that do for an unpaired circuit, I.

B

Think it's a placement actor.

J

They don't let me I, don't care this, you guys.

B

No but I mean, since the reason why I preferred adding a PS on reader/writer is the semantics of what they do is isolated and it's easy to clearly documenting what to see lazar behaviors right so.

J

My recommended value for 300 is: do not an API in the serial I suppose not supporting. Take a customer Ryan.

B

What do you think for what for char.

D

B

Ladies looking to.

D

Take timespan another.

B

Dog make type even there's a keyword, yeah that'd be Ardis. You guys refer to. You does not support, because.

J

The wire doesn't understate you. This woman literally does not understand this.

N

Is this late I, don't care that much about it sure the.

J

N

D

Can do is backslash.

J

You value because that's actually a ucs-2 thing you'd have to so you can do it for everything except unpaired surrogate. So we there's a thing you could do yeah it's just not standard. Therefore we can't say that it's a sensible thing to do so. Much, let's see if.

D

People ask for it: yeah, okay, I have one they're asking for it. What are they? What do they want to.

J

Actually use it for it's there yeah.

D

And then ask them.

J

About unpaired surrogates and see if they have an opinion and their opinion be I, don't know it's a.

D

Much better service, yes, I mean.

J

D

Thing is that the people who the people who are like writing a REST API for like people to call on that land like are not going to ask for this yeah people who want to teleport dot on objects from one side of the world to the other are probably going to like that. It'll eventually come up for somebody very.

N

Few I'm not very.

D

Concerned, if we don't have this for 300, I would rather have extra time fixing bugs yeah AMS. The.

A

Minor question would be like what we say: chars and support. That automatically applies to anything that is compulsive cha echar, a list of char I'd like that's right. Yes, right, then not expected to be super common all right. This.

G

A

Okay, now I have one from Moni, because we switch gears I had one more should be sure that it'll be good I say to our cubes. You get one more, but then I'm throwing the line, because we need to review this one.

B

Yet and again, I've been here: I put it through email already by John. How many explicit? Is it the same? One yeah it's about the PR ones, don't you so today the JSON document takes Jason talk, leader options and the concern which is reader options is that it does not have accessibility for things. There are Jason talking specific one such example is, if some today we do property conflict resolution by saying last one bins in the JSON document case.

B

If somebody wants to ask for customization like hey I want first one brain all I want you to throw the user will not have any capability of doing so, because this will be your options. Will not add that feature, let's not it's not relevant to the reader. So the solution is.

B

Make this a document take adjacent document options mr. day happens to just look like this review so that we can in the future customize it and add the functionality we need to. Let's talk about specific none.

J

Of you seem to be that it yeah I mean.

B

That I don't have apples original because by time I got to I already limited it. So the PR has the changes to get it wrong and I had send the API changes in email, but.

B

Change, okay: I mean the left flies, so all the api's on just document of bars they take adjacent of your option, become gesture document options.

H

The second pivot in Iraq, oh.

B

Yeah, the other one is adding additional video itself, yester done with options or something I think it's gone and look at that yeah. The.

F

Think I changes.

B

F

The tree amateur.

B

Is no longer leader options, it's just options yep, because it doesn't it's not. Unless you to specify document option is literally doctor.

A

I'm; okay with that, apparently.

J

Oh No yeah, you do still have a mixer. It's.

B

The autogen not doing this thing, but the read-only was coming from the origin. I do not have it.

F

So that implies a conversion rate when, when it cults reader, yes.

B

So right now, if you that cause reader, it construct our reader options from the docking options. Okay,.

F

So there's a tiny, perfect and I mean really nice.

B

Abstract, so it's not really. Both of these are straps, so this is.

F

B

Okay, yeah yeah. If it was a class and yes it would be allocation, but that's not the case here.

J

Yeah, aside from understanding why, with them our work, we don't know what is not.

A

All right seems like everybody's okay over there all right. So then, let's close this one here, so there was one other one that I had open myself. Did we talk about this one? No, we do not so.

B

I mean if happy or eat more children, but poor converters and for many murders, but also for interrupt and still use cases. We had API on distance eliezer to enter between rewriter and so answer just like how we added one for leader, okay, so we added right value that expired. On the flip side, we added previous money read value that is related. Now we have approved, we had a proof is API before, but the API look like right behind you and write property and right now, people taking property, name and rider.

B

Now that we are adding a standalone right, papi name on the rider itself, like property, a pls Eliezer become unnecessary. So.

A

They wanna kill them effectively. Yeah oh I mean.

K

I will never reject well, so.

G

Do you think that we.

J

Should only delete them off in serializers, where we also delete them off engine.

B

I think we should hold I had better, be initially discussed. This and I decided to a dry properly named. I did some initial measurements and it made sense to keep them on, at least on the dryer itself, for the element I could go either way.

B

Iii, don't know about the. If there's water to remove on the inside is it certain? Is it atyminius all right for this element becomes a communist overlooked? The fact that we have given to do because yeah I.

J

Mean on on Jason element, it's apparently four methods, or presumably a fifth one becoming something. So it's a question of. Do we say that because they're entirely redundant- and it makes sense on the writer because you can measure the CC.

F

Game and go like.

J

That for the once you're in demand, I don't care either way. I mean these are the methods on who Jason serializers, alright and three.

D

J

D

See how they're sincere eliezer the usage case, the use case for these things is actually somewhat like narrow, don't end up using that much okay, but these get used these primarily get used when you're, writing and convertor need to call into the sterilizer to handle some type of it. They don't know how to handle. Do.

A

You know what anybody else calling them, because if you check your email it in, but what happens with upside colors, it is like you know what.

F

B

So Sigma is calling the right value. It will be coming right than the API, because there is a faster way for you to write, deities and or something. What does anyone call me? My property? Oh no it'll be minion, add recovery. Okay, I mean the complexity, the division capacity for adding right property. Is there more than adding this right value right, don't see you later they're saying there is no caller, whether it's a caller. We don't have a puppy ever so.

J

We're not removing it we're not adding yeah.

A

You know I'm confused glad nobody.

J

Does not exist.

A

We're cruising the API that we never checked it yes and no you're, just asking for under food that ApS, okay, that case I, can't you let's this I guess.

N

A

N

A

O

Delete the issue.

O

Okay approved in API- and we are now approving not.

A

Doing that idea? Yes, okay, so, okay, that seems simply reasonable, but that's also think there's virtually no risk whatsoever.

J

So it's right, the right properties.

D

J

Can change? You must be you ice cream, though. So in that scenario you have to call right property name followed by right value, yes, and but, but you think it's reasonable to leave them on jason'll. Yes, all right! So then there you have it nothing! Api! Really that do you have a follow up above to remove your 19 different copies of write property name inside the writer and have them just call them one right property name. Does that bp's the perfect it poop us on a survivor?

J

You can still measure the pre Alec before you call right property to actually put the bikes through.

B

Bodies on the writer could some of the duplication and and.

J

You could make Jason element, not care about the memory savings on the thing and get rid of the fact that it has three different ways of calling across them all.

A

Right so there's last one, my own is AP, so there is a hard limits, hard limit, bytes thing that is exposed for accomplice variable today, so you can busy set how much that you see I think is able to allocate. This would basically just expose that setting. If you haven't said it, there is some sort of computation that happens when you run inside a container. So it would basically love it to get that value without doing the publication date.

A

Without doing you doing it yourself, so you could just read the environment variable obviously, but that is not set, and then this other case you also get it. So it seems pretty much nine Arabia's already there, so I I think this API looks good sorry what this is the hard limit by tamerica. So basically you can't configure one.

A

You can basically say I, don't want my application to allocate more than n number of bytes on the GC, and that's basically setting that you that's the basic compress variable that you can set, in which case your honor, that it also do it where the runtime config, and if we, if you haven't, specified one. But you want inside a docker container. We default to something like 70 practice around the container size and.

D

If you, if you have not familiar with this super common first other workloads, feedback that we get just over and over and over and over and over again for people is my app is leaking memory. It's using 500 Meg's in memory, and then we say how much memory is available in your machine and how many cores do you have, and they say: I have 32 gigabytes of memory and like 20, visiting cores like yeah, so it's gonna allocate until it feels like stopping here. This isn't. This feature is.

A

There this is just exposing.

D

That new people, you can people care about this like 7, even though it doesn't necessarily affect what they do. It's just anyway,.

B

This is a ghetto right, so it's just letting you know. Yes,.

A

Recent memory info is basic for Diagnostics, but I mean you can collect that data and.

F

A

Send it somewhere else in that sense, that's why it makes sense. It is it's the same as the other. Should you see there right? It's all you know, so what we did.

B

Someone do with this knowing this limit, what.

C

B

C

Use it in the arepa legitimately.

D

Legitimately inspected the debugger put it in their logs and review it.

N

Aggressive the disease, which is logging.

D

So great a great thing with.

C

These Lighting's.

D

People people complain about the amount of memory that their app is using because server GC is the default and server GC is like basically as lazy as possible, with anchors and every pressure doesn't agencies and so like when people ask about that, you can now tell them like you, can get this value in the debugger, like you can log this and you'll know yeah. If you want.

G

A 32 gig machine and you might be app that.

A

Kooky goodbye and say like what the just happened anyway, this is I.

J

Mean there's further stuff like here it says else. This would be 0 and later this discussion of default into another number in the case where it would be zero, so I agree with the API shape and everyone here should be listen and remember. This I agree with Fowler.

P

It might be the first time.

O

P

To be clear, I.

D

Can agree with Jeremy, but only by the games following okay, all.

G

Right anything else, you have 16 minutes, HTTP, client and system types, Jason, I need.

D

It now who or what it should be quiet on system text, Jason we're all gonna, be friends forever. I still.

A

Don't know what you asked me for: okay,.

D

A

Show you, okay, this is there's nothing in there. I'll show you in the next 15 minutes. You.

D

See yeah yeah I mean okay, do I.

A

Join the meeting and chair um yeah- that's probably not gonna fly me beside him. The link to send me the link and I opened it because, if I'm, not this guy, all the bad things happen to the recording and during the meeting, does nothing for the record. So.

D

So go to you have a way to see like you guys have stuff right. If you guys have stuff yeah.

D

Yeah I can do that yeah so go to. Oh, you need to find that what a search by you search by packages and what do you certify API name- lay space toy yet get as acing good? Is it as acing? Only what and what? What is this index the world I.

B

Think you're talking about system that a sheet reformatting, yeah I, am yeah yeah system manage the formatting. Is the assembly and packaging name.

D

It's in it's a horrible, it's a nice peanut web stack or you know yeah system systematics before madam using the assembly. It's.

B

D

B

Yeah I mean I could make you to code if you want, if.

O

You just giving it tightening that would help like yeah.

J

Assemblies are no good to him. He needs a good because.

A

We suffered them. Someone haneing, mixing assembly names, it's like indexing. What you did last week, like okay,.

A

Given you room the BCL one time for assembly, that's the maximum combo.

D

With powerful httpclient extension Oh, yet as diesel yeah yeah, so we need to replace this stuff.

D

Okay, can you be working with what this stuff is? These are extension methods on HTTP, client and HTTP console.

A

You're talking about the ones that deal with Jason directly, yes, and they are super cool and good I. Think then we're already mentioned it to me in a whole big conversation, but I'm even more write about it than he is so, but here's my question: do we need to do this with video.

O

I, don't care right.

D

But every 15 minutes, so ok, let's design we.

G

Have most of the right.

D

People in the room I think that there are some significant API challenges here of API design challenges here, one mostly that these are these are extension methods that live off of HTTP client and HTTP content in their current shape. We also want people to be able to pass in settings to them, but having to pass in the settings like every single place that you call one of these methods is kind of a bummer.

G

One of the extinct she's with you this one yeah yeah.

D

Basically, every don't have that that yeah I, don't I mean I, don't know, if extension property. Would you but the thing to understand about these things from the user point of view. Is that writing writing the code? Do you like deserialize, an HTTP client request from that you expect to be Jason into some down that object. Type that you expect it to be is like twelve lines of boilerplate to do efficiently, because you have to like read it into a stream and do all that kind of stuff and these turning into a one-liner.

D

This is effectively for the client, but is it never for the server it's.

A

D

Are often clients short, but it is decline fortunate inside the server the talk.

J

Yeah, it's it's for HPV client is typically.

D

So, like these kind of things, make people productive and happy and successful, and they exist in the old world and, like these api's are unfortunately tied to jason on that, so they bring in they bring it a bunch of stuff. That's related to like this dll exposes jason on that types. Yes, we could, if we're super interested in it, we could refactor this dll and just have a breaking change to it and say this is a breaking change. So.

B

I believe that Becky's name is max OD asp, net or Deb API yeah, whether you have that client. So the package name reflects a product.

D

From like eight years ago that we don't work on anymore, yeah, I still argue, I still make the marketing people really angry talk about what yeah. Well. So we will have to start thinking about how to figure this out and when we want to get this kind of thing scheduled. So.

A

Naively, like what I would do is I mean, regardless of their not the assembly name, I mean we could either take the assembly name or busy. Do the break and change or doing us any name either one would work for me. The I think the argument against the breaking change would be. If you continue to use Jason the net, you should be able to use the same thing you're using today have, in which case you're, probably better off having a new thing in which.

D

Which means you probably are better at having a new think yeah now the good thing about this is that it's not in the shin framework anymore, because there's not that. So, if you keep this guy out as well, because.

B

We're out of the share.

D

Framework in through the system that issued to be formatting, DNA yeah, so it's a it's a missionary framework and one two: it's out in three.

A

Oh so does the extension package that you currently have for Jason? Well, this guy back in there does not pull it in directly either way.

D

Because you could just do it yourself, put one. It's one more package, reference, I! Guess, that's fair yeah! It's.

A

Just that I mean if it's terrible, it's not a bad idea. I mean if it's very popular that it seems like something.

D

You mean so the other thing that we found with this. By the way s peanut now does Jason case-insensitive by the fall, and the reason. Why is that this cone exists and this uses Jason on its default settings, which is Pascal Kasich, is inexpensive it? Yes, so we've what we found when we shipped system tax Jason support as the default is that it literally broke everybody, and due to the fact that Jason he will it will by default, will ignore properties than it doesn't understand and the experience that everybody had when we ship it was.

D

They just saw that their properties weren't set, and they didn't understand. Why, and the reason is because of this package, so we told we did a big push with guidance and documentation and putting into the share framework to get everybody using this thing into one to be like more efficient and it uses Jason Barnett with Jason on its default settings.

D

Okay, it doesn't make it super easy for you to like change those settings, because their extension methods.

D

So super cool super fun. So do you so when they kick me.

A

One thing that this wall in IKEA is effectively did you for us to use default settings yeah, because the things.

D

Are is battery settings? What is noblest in our global settings? So if you go to the other namespaces that are in this DLL I can probably pull it up. It's like media type, format or collection, I think.

D

G

Yeah, it's probably just a subsystem or Bishop.

B

Already here, what do you think? What did you say, media media type.

D

Format match media type for magic. It's like media, took for matter, collection, I, think so. There's some static collection of default for matters yeah. It's this right so like that property, Jason format where it turns Newton sauce, it turns a class that exposes Newton soft Jason's option. So, if you click on that property, it returns something that is a Newton soft, JSON format or something I think, and we had multiple implementations here. We had one that is yeah, so Jason, Jason, media type, formatter I, believe it exposes Jason on that side of it, though,.

G

D

So there is a static, I mean it's. It's somewhat unfortunate that it's a static, but it's kind of like you know like what what the outcome of it being a static is so that most people don't know you can configure the settings, and so they used a snot net with the all settings everywhere and we didn't realize that people were sending us a mismatched Nathan on time, like we told everybody to start using this and Jason denied his case being sensitive by default. So MVC core has been a sensitive earlier.

D

Nbc core has been camelcase for like a really long time, but we didn't realize that everybody, for the most part, is sending us data that doesn't match the casing. Like people are sending us a Pascal case data and Jason on that, just like he said, though it works, and then, when we put, we flip to you system, Tex Jason, by default it for Oakland kissa bad Thanks.

D

So we kind of have people in this little like stable equilibrium of using this thing right now, I'm, like their lives, are better than when their lives are better than when this didn't work on dotnet core, but they're, not like all the way better, because it's not anything thanks.

D

So yeah the same thing that we should talk about a delivery soon after we shipped I mean the only real the only we also have usage of it in a blazer. Is you want? You want this kind of thing when you own both sides of the API you're talking to so like a really a really sort of powerful scenario that we care really deeply about with Blazers. We actually have a template that gives you three projects.

D

It gives you a client project, a server project and a shared project, and you can put your data types in your shared project and then just like it's a one-liner to like expose data on the server and a one-liner to get data on the client, but what's really well, but the fact that it's using a different Jason sterilizer is a little bit problematic.

D

So for for the usage it blazer we're planning to basically keep our httpclient related functionality for blazer in preview for three. Oh, so we'll ship will ship an additional package in three Oh as an unsupported preview. That, basically is a pilot of AP. Is that you system text adjacent where they speak line and then we'll make it real for the place. I want o release because we don't. We don't want to put something in the ship framework and there's probably important questions to answer like. Should it be?

D

Should it be in the system that HTTP namespace, these things are, but it means that if you have this as a reference, you have a conflict which I guess you probably can't avoid, because it took the good namespace already yeah I mean so yeah. You.

K

Have to I don't know.

G

D

To what degree these things were sort of like reviewed by this is the whole. This was done before I was on the team.

A

I mean I mean the names are amazing media-type for what a collections a reasonable name. For that, but I mean it's a collection of media type, one.

D

It makes me happy because they have a custom, probably bothered to have a custom collection type at all. I guess.

A

That's great all right, then I would say unless there's anything more. There is conclude today. So also has a few moments to actually hack in the code. They were just well cool and testing we're doing through alright, that's what I think. Maybe if I go okay, good, yeah, there's making sure not this person is.

D

Your boy, alright yeah.

B

Alright and Brennan, this are very interesting issue that we sure, if it's early but we've already dropped it off. Alright,.

D

B

Guys good night, thank you.