.Net Foundation Design Reviews, 12 Jan 2018

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: .NET Design Review: Core Pipelines APIs

Description

00:00:00 - Approved: Add MemoryExtension APIs to get parity with array APIs https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/25850#issuecomment-357358606
00:20:28 - Approved: String-like extension methods to ReadOnlySpan(char) Epic https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/21395#issuecomment-357363944
00:43:51 - Approved: Add StringBuilder.Equals(string) to efficiently compare a StringBuilder with a string. https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/25846

A

Now so, the only thing is that you connect to the car.

A

So this is not funny how it is.

B

C

All right, that's.

A

All right so bet is also in the class, so basically what we discussed over the over email. Let me just repeat this, so basically, the idea was that we would discuss the equator and I think you later a path. Let me decide that, because too many people are out and can't make it today, so instead we'll focus on pipelines more and but before we do that, there's two issues that are some its review to get unblocked. We have any preferences for order between the two or it's only for writer, and that's it all right guys.

A

Let's squeeze that in like love, it's always.

D

Great, what module does this one its lives in such a memory? Yeah.

E

So so the point of this issue is decided to get parity with all the API, so we have. These were the muscle between area and span. These are the month that were missing. The ones that are coming to our I explicitly chose not to add them, because there's different patterns for span like using slice instead of having index overloads.

F

Do we I mean I always feel like? Do we really feel like we have scenarios for each of these? So I? It's one thing to say we we did this before and therefore we want parity with it and we just clone right. But that assumes that somebody was using the previous ones and know whether so the.

G

Reason for this so I think I.

H

Filed a you should orogeny, maybe not, but basically what we did is we clean it's fun and we told people it's like an array.

H

And it's hit and miss whether you find the same api's in both places, and we got like oh just say guys this. So we did that this year and you know us on worked and I did the API two days later. Oh, we missing this API and it kind of happened. You know five times like let's just review all the API, tsundere and kind of make sure that you know, since we are communicating that the types are like moral equivalence, let's just have the same: API, okay, but I.

F

Get your point like that, like look, verse is a great example. I mean you know what reverse like. Do people really use reverse I have no idea, but we have they done did by the way, I believe it. So that's what I'm asking I'm asking whether you think email do have a access tool I just let this do this. Do this on the other side, anyway,.

H

F

That there's a value of consistency like if it's on arrays here, and so if we're saying that adding these things was trivial and it's like three lines of code, because you know the underlying things are all blah blah blah, and this is just sort of for consistency. I.

G

A

The prime motivation of you want parity with array is like the years they get people to move off of arrays that they can help it. Alright, more cause, don't have to touch up like the harder it gets right. I mean like right.

I

A

Mean some of them are probably not hard. It's just you know getting the boundary conditions right all the times like you know, it's just tedious and annoying I think that's primarily what we care.

E

To open issues regarding that, yes, one is find all allocation rate. I propose alternatives that takes in an expanse as the research that would avoid allocations. That shape could be is also to exchange together.

H

Sorry go ahead, it's a logical equivalent. It's not there just like same API right yeah,.

E

And I'd had it changes route I find all because your input span could be suitable to.

H

E

In return false, if it's too small.

H

So one one thing one one comment: I would have some of these methods like true for all. They seem like they're, linked methods that were added for an LA because they could be implemented more efficient, I think that, before, regarding this referral, some of the money, if you because we made a need to additional problem which is to SS.

J

H

Notice that some link methods are available on span and some are not, and then we keep going and now we have to add all link methods. Don't.

K

Know like I, don't.

A

H

Is the best done in front of Hamrick Oh since.

L

Linkage we were using funks and directions instead of any.

K

L

Predicate so it was brilliant, it was there before we did all.

G

The work is, it is oh arm, so the span implement.

M

N

H

Cannot implement interfaces so then use your answer. The link method requires animal then know that we can. We can implement a link like methods over spot, where.

O

We can implement a wrapper. We can have all the link stuck to one inch, but there's.

F

Fine I'm, assuming the ones that are common, it.

E

If they're not really problem, because the was that route, they have a common witches all of those ones, you could slice the span force and then pass it to the bus, derivatives and.

J

P

Over world yeah.

E

So I'd be okay with the try final signature instead of the find all the child, kids so.

F

I certainly think that if the one that returns, an array is a little wonky because you're doing spans but you're not using spans, where it would obviously be useful to use a span. So it's one of those cases where I would take a minute. Unless we have data says it find all is actually useful. I.

L

Don't think it's lightly shanem it also. What would user do? What would user? Where would user take and spend like? If you see, if you try to convert your method and then, like you see that fine old method is not there, and you see, there is a triangle like my first thought would be great you're a passive into result spent.

Q

Most are taking a link great with find all and super all those could both be replaced by an aggregate function. That would allow you to know.

J

To allocate or not.

Q

Now why not you're gonna know you can't call it the actual aggregate function, I'm saying instead of it having one of those both of those new methods, you could define an attribute function. You.

H

Could have in a function that returns I in the moon, roof right.

O

Little orchid and yeah you're gonna.

K

O

One I've not allocated and work with allocating if you want to play with you.

L

But also you have to turn like crap and all calls into a loop that knows how to defend resulting span, so just for parody I would keep the rare return method, because people would make some mistake. Well, that's what.

H

Events was saying like so that you in the span world and not now, we force you into another world and we copy, on the other hand, that I find on doesn't have enough parameters, because you don't know how many T's were written to the result or size of the result. Oh, that.

F

Is precise, you know in the successful case, but but but more, let's assume you fix that. There's a concern with my I have here, which is this is the you know, are people going to use it if we built it with someone use it? You know what I mean like um really is everything we build it yeah.

R

F

We, you know user community, or was it like somebody who implements every API because they? What I concerned about is that if you create something we're using, it is so stilted or you know not obvious or whatever no one's going to use it they're just going to write. All of these things can be implemented in probably less than five lines of code, so there's a pretty good chance that it isn't sort of in their face and easy to use. Just like that.

F

If it isn't like one line of code, it isn't worth it they're just going to write the five lines of code and be done with it. um So anyway, I'm not convinced this one passes that test. So in.

H

Addition is so I think the final we could remove and that's true for only ball variation. The true follower butters. We actually the most right, because it's basically lake truth bird. So all the others.

S

H

Paragon well.

S

H

Addition there are like 200 linked methods on the mobile and people will now ask for the others as well. That's my words that these ones are presented on array right, yeah, accident of history.

T

U

A goal to convert people so.

T

Again but people.

H

U

Are currently using array to.

H

Span I, don't think we saw emo said that that we are trying to encourage people to move from rights. One I don't.

G

H

The goal I think the goal.

M

H

This creature should be, if somebody wants to compare it, they shouldn't be running into roadblocks. They, like oh I, was using array and I had, you know, exists and now I cannot find exists. So it's not about pushing people in this direction is about I.

U

Will tell you I didn't know true for all existed videos.

J

U

That its use is pretty small, in which case I mean like I. Look at reverse there, too I'm lucky I mean.

P

U

Reverse true for I'll find all has problems yeah, so.

H

I use reversed: okay, readers, okay, hex formatter, and you basically divide by you, know: modulo, pi and and then you.

K

Alright- and you twice there on out.

H

There and then you just call me: oh yeah, did you have you ever use it twice.

K

H

You form a team for hex numbers many times.

K

F

You use it in for anything else. Besides, you.

N

Had a similar slide for the enforcer.

F

Going backwards.

N

I get that one. Is there something else you asks two people.

P

F

Dutch answer.

A

So looking at usage data reverse is really popular. Is it.

K

A

Enough, though, not to generic versions, but it's a different story anyway, I.

F

Guess I about super old seven lines of code: I really don't care, otherwise, not a link method.

A

F

A

Have a method like that they have true they, if they're all and they have any. They don't have true for.

K

Like literally like the what.

H

Does even true from.

U

Emo, it's not any, they don't have a direct method, but they it's not any. Isn't it yeah? Okay, that's all good.

G

So, coincidentally,.

U

So I see, okay, so be open. It's all! It's all yeah! It's all then had that method that they do happen. Didn't.

A

It yet oh yeah, he's semantics, that's a semantics, but it's not like what a method that shows up for me. Essentially I mean the question is like I, don't know like to me I'm fine, with saying we don't want to link like methods, but I would say that also for anything that takes a predicate like I, don't think like to fault. Amusing, sometimes are different from let's say fine last I mean like it's the same logical thing: wasn't predicating you back and resolving our I.

S

L

We should do everything, that's very simple and then things that you have to think about to re-implement just Dragomir so which one says it all except dry, except condo or triangle, because.

F

All CL kind.

L

F

Met my last I don't know I like.

L

This only fun, though, is the one that you have to know what to do with you.

Q

Listen Sarah to find all these can't get the indices really found where, for the other, fine ones you can, but you know so much. The batteries.

A

P

The question is.

A

Like I, don't like to me, who do we like the predicate ones like what's the performance going to be when you call those guys, it's like how good are they with inlining I'll go ee like this day? Do you get any benefits all of those? Well, it's just making things worse right. It's healthy, I think.

V

These are convenience you're.

F

Making it worse.

V

F

Imagine you call the method versus the native followed like yes, what.

A

Is implemented.

F

As a naive fault, poor loop and therefore it's just saving you, you know you go from five lines of code down to one line of code or whatever that it's.

A

F

The performance rubric are becomes.

A

Slower, it's probably becoming specially slow because we do a delicate invocation, basically just in a timely loop right, the other one is just well you just whatever logic you have like that runs in line for lanes well,.

H

It's worse than a predicate, the implication. If you just find index of some value we use simply to implement. It is vectorized this one forget about the delegate: it's not vectorized, it cannot be. There's no vector intrinsic, that takes a delegate, see the processor. What a slackers who designs tools.

G

A

The Spector fix.

G

A

E

Are these blocking or is this is just clean up and it's just to clean up and get get the Paradiso these communities, like Chris, Thomas saying so the a1 want to use span to.

F

Me the value of this is that we don't have neatly little things coming in, and so now we just have to decide, for. It also seems like we're already on a on a course where we're not going to be completely consistent, we're going to drop at least one of them by the way you know outcome.

H

Of the outcome of the review is, we did exercise to see what we are still missing and we don't think that any of these actually I'm completely fine with it I would. The main thing I wanted to do is avoid the yet another one but I think maybe we ended up with through there yet another one. We added all the ones that make sense, and now they you know all that. It's remain is not that maybe reverse, but what's.

G

Bad, that's what you picked.

H

I never once I, don't know where ancient seminary.

G

H

The only one that doesn't take a predicate yeah- and this is like this link like and emo- is saying that it's very heavily used. Therefore,.

A

Therefore, and I come all this from all the methods I use when I do read in the obsession reverses pretty high on that list, really.

G

What you use it for what so.

H

Like for on this side of the table, use reverse I.

A

Can give you example easy tree. Traversal is very popular because, basically, when you do treat reversals and you have stacks or other times, it's numbers game like thing is like I, don't know: okay, fine! That's enough! That's enough! In.

G

Japan, there are two examples that was enough: whatever.

A

But I would honestly I would say this one given given the goals we have to spend, which is performance type, given that nobody asked for these methods, yet yeah I would just say, and given that you could probably make an argument and say they look like fur traps, because we advertise them as like. Really you shouldn't call them it's like right, as it seemed like a bad combo, which is.

G

Reverse I mean like we can introvert buy.

A

The out of the same.

G

Right, that's super fast, but when we started this review sessions with repurchase, why are we.

F

That is willing to concede that point. If someone would just tell me that someone uses it, it seems we have data that suggests that people are using it so and brings up the sort yeah do we have.

N

Any sorting sorted yet is already an issue for the other already right. What about for each that's my favorite very listen.

H

Yes, I think that, for each other is fun, it's not an increment right. It's an operation method also detective.

K

H

K

F

Race is not too bad. This is really bad, so are we leaning towards just adding reverse or doing nothing either? Those are fine with me yeah. Let's.

A

F

Just a diversify the David somewhat after.

C

F

W

O

Where's, what be what it said? Something know this. This was asking what I didn't put for a journalist. You.

F

Trying to be helpful or not.

F

We had someone who is sort of we had at least a theoretical person who would use it like you know what I mean like yes, I could imagine somebody tell.

P

G

G

F

It believed that their scenario they would imagine, span a fine like you could imagine that it would have whatever they did. I would like to do it with span because span is better, you know for efficiency or whatever. If that's true, then I'm, okay with it I, think I use it in public.

X

All right, just lock the API No.

E

Second, one I've get the API shape in the comment which is linked solution. It's a liquid maples.

K

Whoo you're cheating, if you're saying like.

E

Whoa love thy own silver stuff. What is multiplayer this is similar in the sense that sister arrays is not string. Parity with really spans of charge was a student measures. Well them they were of white, but I the less they would invest.

E

A

Went over all the message that string hasn't basically created the read-only stand of charge, Lulla, nothing yeah.

E

Except for something like a cat or and which don't in any sense,.

F

And these are the new ones, aren't already that, and we have a feel for how many are already there like avi have index.

N

Off on T really span of TSM, so sequence equal sequence compared, but but were there any read, only span of care methods.

F

Specific to charter know that we're okay before but.

N

We had, you have.

F

Generic ones, because you can use any span.

E

A

P

The only question would be, would it be useful.

A

To instead of putting all memory extensions or just to find, it would include any extensions.

A

Just for understanding like the class name.

F

Yeah because I.

A

Mean I think we only spend off char. It's not the same thing. Logically, as you know, we'd only buy it, for example, because like they have like very different, like shapes, usually and like this is all extreme like functionally that he wouldn't have anywhere else, but like.

H

But I do people care because these methods would not show up. If you have a span of anything but Charles they would just not show up. Do I agree.

A

H

A

I'm saying imagine the scenario when brows the dachshund understand to stay. Now you have one single time of like 400 accession, others yeah.

H

The light would be likely for, like, yes, the luminal.

G

H

G

Way to single box- and you don't lose tail in there.

F

No, it's like it keeps I, keep clicking the button dude to evil, so I'm trying to understand because I thought, like utf-8 encoded stuff. What is this? This doesn't feel utf-8 encoded. No, but we have I mean people have utf-16 string. I know.

H

I know but but.

F

Now the question is: is you put stuff like this in that's because we want them to use it like that's the the way to do strings or whatever right, so that that would make perfect sense. If we said the way to do strings is spans of char, but it's not like we're I thought was utf-8 I. Think.

H

You df8 this only if you like, in the context of in the network like we're, never gonna, be able to hey I, get.

F

It so the question is: is how often will that's a halfway point? So clearly you know you might be enough: the old world, with normal string and so forth. You know you might be in the span world, but I would have expected. You would have been UT of a but maybe I'm wrong. That's the part.

H

The moment you go like you want to efficiently slice our existing utf-16 string. You end up with a span and then you want to trim and you want to compare it and make it to Lawler. And suddenly you don't say.

Q

H

Q

We set on all these extensions being specific to characters because, like trim and stuff I could see, making sense is generic, yes, but a lot of these can be generic. You.

U

Q

U

C

F

It really that's.

U

A really big well.

F

It feels like you, don't make it harder to use for it's like red butter purpose like now, you're going to have extra parameters for like what's the trim character or whatever we can still probe them. Well, because it's either. Yet you still have the string character parameters and you can just make.

Q

It equal for when it's left out, if you want you just don't.

L

Do without it for 40, you do.

L

How are those without in character only for sure and everything else, potatoes, yeah.

Q

I guess you probably wanna make it default, because that would never move I.

V

Think I understand what you say so, but like some of them makes sense for the trend.

U

And trend start.

V

Would be sweet to have one that takes parameters now.

U

Q

The ones the one that this.

V

Q

K

H

Don't feel strong either way. On the other hand, I have a question related to. Maybe we can buy weed. I did.

V

H

U

H

Be again uh actually.

U

I, don't know, would you actually use it? Strobing I was thinking it was today it would be cool not taken. When would you actually have a something else that wasn't a harvest charge.

Q

U

Wasn't text-based it.

Q

U

A char that you would trim if it was at the end well.

Y

One thing I can think of is like what zeros.

R

Y

R

Know so like if it's a site of the strategies like.

F

Y

F

As a point of philosophy, I will say that having been at Microsoft for more than a decade, we are much much more likely to over-design things than to under design them. So we tend to want to generalize everything and make it add a bunch of bells whistles until it's so complicated that our users have no idea what to do with it. So I think we're doing it here for what.

U

Is work doing it as we change it if we're trying we're trying to generalize this.

F

To the general case of well, can we try.

U

F

That our characters and what I'm.

M

Saying is that.

F

We do this in Microsoft a lot I'm, not necessarily saying this is the wrong time to do it, but I'm saying that we tend to do it, and so we should be suspicious of people. This me well.

Q

Thinking specifically at this point, I think you would be more likely from our consumption of it to use these extension methods if at least they are available on fight just because you're dealing with ASCII. Yes,.

F

It's a great the.

Q

Same thing, that I agree.

F

That bite is probably the most likely place that you'll use it. So.

H

I have a on a related note about the trim, the span that is returned is it you make a data copy or it's the same style.

H

Could you see.

E

A spare equal to slice it, but it could be, but what are we gonna do? huh I assume you do yeah.

F

Yeah but but it's important because it's one is alias or today.

K

It's not visible.

F

In the API, it's true well.

K

Why was visible? Because you don't know- and so.

H

Basically, you pass a span, you get it now, the new value. If you use our strain api's, you get a new strain, so you can do whatever you.

L

Want there you're under Starck, it doesn't matter too much I think we should soon as you're stuck pop you're, not like Jessie, isn't the problem. It's.

H

Not about GC it's about today. What do you find now mutate? This span that I passed in? Does it affect the result that I say I would.

F

Argue that you should spec it as being a subspace.

H

So we can either speck it, and then we have kind of clean API that looks like the string. Id is or we could take the span by red, which makes it a kind of cleaner. Yes,.

K

But then I still order.

A

To use doesn't make clear you just you just override the variable you don't you still don't make a statement about the buffer to the point soon yeah.

H

Still the you kind of it makes it a key library. You know like it's nothing.

S

Make it clear it.

L

Makes it clear there is consumer of this if I would expect it to slice? Yeah like this is high-performance one based API, while have you ever focus things around actually I have concern about those which.

T

Do like it yeah, which is not really a string, and this span points to data in the shared memory. Whatever I call the method and, in our case a complete menu swinging on the GC heap, which is.

M

Actually, no, it wants to something else. I.

T

Think it over therefore, I need to return the buffer, which printing it's.

E

Just this, but do any of them: I'll, okay, yeah, there's some that work like remove and replace I had it ordered this, but that.

F

Good, sir, their place makes it but I think as long as they're explicitly documented. Whenever you should like you should probably be explicit about it all the time, but you could be you know. The assumption is that you don't allocate unless explicitly see.

H

How you place allocates.

F

H

Cannot allocate even.

E

This signature.

H

E

Is larger than what you're basing you look for static? No, you cannot allocate the Colorado Cates. That's what you mean. It's.

S

E

S

E

Or any that for idea, do we have it? Look everyone yeah, the first, that's the one that oh yeah.

T

Except a new topper.

E

T

Going yeah and you have to work it anytime. You.

L

Want yeah this one, we probably don't about me: shooting Pat, yeah I, think because you lose our killers, rarely immediately like yeah. We should you get spent and you cannot even put it like store it anywhere. You think that would like to all the ones every be.

F

Allocated so what's what's our expectation like when we call this guy, you guess and pass in a buffer and then what happens and so in.

H

General all our API is that have this pattern they are true, they try. So, yes,.

G

H

Then they have to return an additional parameter. That says how long is actually so as the double it's the try and yeah it's too small yeah. But it's a such a pervasive pattern in our API sand. It's actually not difficult to call like you're, basically called if try blind logged and I slice, whatever that the thing return.

H

Okay and if not then I enlarge.

F

The buffer and do it again well then, so we're saying you don't want this I kind of agree with that, and this one you should be called, try and add a hugging planet and out I wouldn't follow the pattern. Is that pattern always followed like there's a rapid, okay, I.

L

Think it's a bad part with replace forklifts. You can count amount of things you need. You can recalculate size of the new span unit. Now now, if you don't know the number I mean I, don't know committee, but you have to implement it like. So why force people? How many times would you resize your spam to get it.

J

F

L

F

L

To randomly resize it until it finally penis it and.

F

Now that's the caller, who gets to decide by the rain I can.

L

First measure and then I select, then what's the point: if they can wear this, sometimes you don't want to measure, and you know the value is very large. That's why that's when you want to matter so you like you, don't you don't keep expanding buffer until the new world, kids I, don't know just.

Q

And does replace work in place like the non allocating version like. Is that something that we get work for one? The new value is smaller, of course, or the same size. So what.

Y

Is replace, have this old value.

Q

Y

Q

N

I mean recently it's fine, it replace yeah. So.

Q

If you don't, you need the value.

Y

You're, offering.

Q

On sore this, this.

Y

Is one of the arguments raised.

Q

So, oh, this is.

Y

Extension yeah.

Q

Yeah, so you need this disband in the span older.

Y

E

Been dismantled value, the bill should be dispensed source or that in you, acharya and.

H

Also, I think he has a very good point, which is: if we shrink, we should have a method that does the same thing in breads. We should basically, we need to have to make it if the. If the replacement is expanding, it means you need to pass a new buffer. If it's not, then it is in place.

E

How light it and the user knee should know beforehand efficient? We do the trick that we have in some other.

H

Guys that you know you we have in our transformers and you pass a larger buffer and tell it how much data it has and it expands to the slack.

T

What will happens if your source, we.

H

Know that we have a check implemented by a community.

T

Woman, you will let checker will do the right thing if it's possible I.

F

Don't like the idea that API shapes change based upon whether the parameters are bigger or smaller than the offer things like that. So your other idea, where you pass in a buffer, it might have an overage and you can expand into it that one I at least the shape, didn't change.

F

The other one feels like so painful to use properly. That really like, is it worth having a thing that does that generically I.

H

Would be okay with only death pattern, with the slack but I think for this idea. You often know what you're passing in, because you're like I want to remove. You know replace all you want to know.

K

The literals, like you, know, new line I can't retain it just like just kinda cheating or something like this. Exactly.

Q

I think it very rarely called replace not as rural right exactly.

D

Q

Sorry I was reading been out, so it's talking about the need for a replace that takes like a single tier car and.

A

The same is true of two up our right of.

Q

A

Q

Upper should be having in place version.

D

Where two upper it so we say that I think this is hold up when you keep culture into account. So.

F

To up our door at Calicut, we let.

P

Culture yeah also.

F

That one of the most common uses of these are probably going to be the slice strings right. In this case, you can't modify the buffer because you'd be modifying the string right. I did my same arrow. That weapons.

M

F

Were pointing out that like I can see the scenario you start out with strings and then you slice them to get sub strings, and now you want to do some more operations on them to do more stuff. But under those circumstances you can't do any in place. In fact, it's kind of oh no.

H

It's not the problem because there are read-only spans and they are. There are spans here. The read on these funds cannot be mutated in place, but basically saying we.

A

Have to have different words in place and monetize. First yeah.

Q

A

Q

Don't have a span version ever.

A

L

Only spend and they should have different names.

H

Because wonderful.

L

H

Think that what okay we could have, but the other alternative is you? If you have varied understand and you want to do a mutation, we only have to make a copy before you call and then I'll. Let me place at the end right: it's equivalent. There is no preference, it's just. Somebody needs to think like how to do it as opposed to what they just have an API, and it takes the right. You just read it.

H

If you serve strings, if you skip inconvenient they're, not that inconvenient, if you start with string and you slice you get- you get read on this pan, so you cannot pass it to implies API, and you can call to array it gives you a ray of chars and you can pass it to now in places that.

H

If you know come to this, it's convenient and.

L

It's better to do it outside, at least you can copy into the span allocated its title again, expand if you are in the color space, if we don't do it for you, otherwise,.

Q

We'll have to allocate okay so for the things that you allocate, should they be returning a read-only status, expand.

L

The door lock em that should give you.

E

Bonus III would say my question. The line that you allocate. We would be warned before it has them. It will be our idea that.

Q

You would keep well for things like to upper right. If you want it to read only span, you must allocate right, like that's the point he's.

N

Saying you I'm, assaulted,.

Q

Stir, oh okay, I.

N

See a part one, they don't need to allocate because.

E

N

Are the sizes are change, but.

E

B

Don't want them, it's not a summate.

F

L

Don't respond so you cannot yeah, but.

Z

F

We with you the eager.

Z

Are resolved right, Oh.

H

Already sharp yeah, actually none of these API scan actually mutating place. They all take three downspouts as a as far as I see yeah exactly right. Okay, so a meaning they all allocate.

F

Per day they should be slicing design, so, but these are okay, like the trim suddenly equals and the compares or.

K

H

About that email starts with respond to, as, with the same, what.

S

Websites ends with is voicing we.

H

Approved the trim api's, they don't mutate, we approve them being specifically for character. We approve they're, specifically for character to, or they should advance was talking about. What about.

L

About Castro, we have ass-kicker characters in other.

H

Sites we want to trim them and you want to trim basically specifically bypassing somebody's yeah yeah.

Q

I mean I will prefer tea I take light, but.

L

If you put it on, but it's as good as tea I'm, sorry it's as good as what is put it on T, oh wait! But by and.

C

Chart think we're.

Y

Going to Dubai and char makes more sense, just duty, that's what Islands yeah.

P

Y

Want enough to, you have to know.

L

Them I would call do Co ever.

P

Like I only on the trims.

H

We already have IDs, detect II and are constrained to I equatable, and then we do specializations over by th. Don't go I.

L

Think these are okay. Next time we really didn't really want to trim by the rate, will ask yo-yo. I mean it's cuz, well-regulated.

Z

Right yeah, it definitely.

L

Social, we will.

Z

Q

Come flat, don't other pretty like dream.

L

Kim G seemed defied, pretty good match entire blocks of stupid.

A

I mean like how much D tremendous.

S

Data that also my.

F

Goodness because I mean most of the times, perhaps yeah yeah I'm.

Q

F

Is like a bunch of these are the ones you use when you're just trying to, but did you slap something together, never heard about efficiency.

Q

Of a lot yeah baby.

A

Centimeter on this.

F

A

Good for once inflict.

Z

A

Do any of them infectious, you should use stream, go there and.

Y

There are some that take like the stream compared it against I.

F

Think something generic, that's the true more is not so clear that can because span it, especially the ones that you have to pass in the return buffer, then are sort of more painful to to actually like write the code to use them. So we were, we were supposed to box.

H

This so what about this? We do adjust the trims for now and since they now we have a scenario. So maybe we do over tea and we do the specialization for challenge bite, how we did in the other specializations.

F

Are car today exact right, uh so these are new so that the thing I worry about sort of doing this, half I hear that you're describing I will do the first three because they don't seem controversial.

F

It's an interesting question whether the whole thing you know the carrot: either we have some scenarios where you use care and yes, I need these things and I can imagine doing this or we don't and so doing. Half of them doesn't sort of get you this I. Don't.

G

Know we will do the rest.

H

The point is that the rest needs to be redesigned. We just realized that they and we need to be redesigned because they cannot literally mutate the thing in ideas, I guess.

F

Yeah, it can't be approved, as is wrong yeah, and once you look.

T

F

Why don't we just.

A

Boot it until we get the next round I think you should probably spend some time like thinking about what the policy should be and then try to make it somewhat consistence. We don't end up with like five flavors doing the same thing. I.

F

Would love to see a little bit of a like a sample use case like here is what I consider the poster child use of these apos? You note the use of all you're, not the Unigine stuff, to get the flavor of like this is why it would be handy we're really used since you. It says the.

Q

Finance world runs on your API. It's.

E

So awesome: are you blocked on this I know. I I can better this love feedback here that okay, okay, let me design it. Okay, price.

T

I think Carlo have distinct, shall have a reason. Have things certified still have the very rich API arrays? They basically don't have much open API. That's why.

F

There's room: we don't cannot decide what good are part of the reason why you have a richer API is because it is more specific. It's also country, it's a very you know, but we have a much better idea what the scenarios are, and you also don't have this much problem where you know with arrays and other things you have to tell the equator bowl or whatever you have these other things, whereas all that is well defined by the time you got the string, it's care equals its.

F

You know it's very, very strict, except for this chunk of ice and options. Yeah.

P

F

Our day pain, oh, you know a case independent day am.

E

Regarding the accession class name, we have some methods, definitely index off down tenjin area or t. If you have separate class day for extra ApS, then you have some really spent ideas like index off. They were living memory, extensions, the others really. No change cause more confusion.

E

When you go to get the string attached to that, you don't have any decks off for that. Take leader instead of chart unless we specialize, but but.

B

It'll show up, it tells us right it. Yes, yeah.

M

Yeah, so that's also, we don't have any.

H

Spanner API so string extension I can write.

E

But you mentioned that you could read it. I have another class, that's not called mention in this course, and let you know so just oh.

X

E

What citizen or does it is splitting.

R

Memory extension into like mineral that won't never extension. Oh I'm.

C

R

Should look at don't worry about that yet.

F

It's it's relatively minor right, yeah I just changed. It isn't.

A

A parity does it break the world man alright. So then that's the other thing so last time anyway- and we basically looked at me, the only by it's read-only buffer, there's only buffer and know we're talking about the rest of the pipe like the actual pipelines thing that did let.

L

Me go to the next slide, please and then we'll get back and the next one. Oh I didn't send you updated version. It is okay,.

P

L

Fine, no I'll just go.

S

To labor market just fix it on the title.

L

Work over the word so pipelines last time, we've seen. Basically what are they for and you need them to manage. Multi, segmented, buffers between a single producer and the single consumer that consumed and.

L

We found useful in Kestrel everything a lot of network eio scenarios would need them do so. This pipe is backed by memory pool. It supports a feature called back pressure when you.

L

You know when total length of data in pipe goes over that size to be clear. That's not up here the accents! I, don't see it, it's not besieging the next slide. Okay, it's under options cause I had to student yeah. So when the total size of the pipe goes over this over the value, the flash method that transfers data from writer to reader, it's a sync method, but it's like blocks, so you can prevent or writing and take in too much memory, and this is important because in stream, for example, is the pool affair.

L

So you ask stream to read data, so you can only ask it to read when you are ready to get it, but pipe is push-pull, so writer tries to pull data to push data on you and you pulled it out. So you have to have some limiting mechanism that will prevent fast riders and slow readers from eating your entire memory. Then we have a mechanism for completion notification so.

J

You can see that both.

L

I pipe reader and pipe rider has complete with exception, and you maybe look at the.

A

Simple code first and then go to special cases later because it may be easier from a flow standpoint, understand how you get data or get data in for you. Maybe he did that's.

S

F

Question though, we have an async API and then we talked about walking, you don't need actually.

G

Is working? It's just change it. Okay,.

H

In details suggest we start with writing because I think.

G

H

Models use people have is densified and somebody first strides to device yeah.

L

H

Then somebody reads: on the other hand, so I would start with so tonight. My wearable is.

L

A pipe pipe it has writer, you ask writer for the memory you somehow put bytes into the memory. You tell writer how much you wrote and then you call flushes that would transfer ownership of this bites. You wrote from writer to reader and if the pressure kicks in, you would have to wait until it releases.

L

If you have some completion condition like you are from the stream and writing to the pipe and zoom returns. 0X3, you say pipe the writer complete and this would notify the reader that there is no more there wouldn't be no.

J

L

Data and reader after reading, wherever it seemed, can just exit. How does it, how does advance vary from flush? What's the difference between so advanced just tells because you get memory, memory doesn't know how much was written and how much of that is. My good data, so advanced just moves the pointer inside the memory to the point where you feel the data with so the reader can use yeah.

Q

So the reader well, if.

L

That doesn't affect the reader yet right, yeah.

Q

L

Just lets the pipe know how much there it has inside itself, because you can, when you call get memory, it will give you a croquet, then you pass it to the stream and stream reads: 25 characters, so you have to tell it. Ok, you I feel 25 characters only so the next time you can get memory. It will give you the rest of them, so you can call get.

Q

Memory in advance multiple times, without calling flush until you call flush, the reader doesn't see it yeah.

A

Q

A

Very also many colgate memory or they get like the first time I get the 4k buffer right. Then I call advanced the next time. I go, get Emily I get whatever I advanced. Let's enjoy. We do the slicing for me right. Yeah.

L

Yeah and get memory takes minimum size, so if you want more than there is but differently, it passes zero. So if there is nothing in the pipe it'll give you full new segment. If there is a tail space in the segment like if there is something left free in the segment, it will give you that. But if you pass 2020 56 bytes, you know if, even if there is tail space, it will allocate in your segment to give you exactly at.

H

Minimum what you asked what and then you can boom if you don't call flash which will go back crashing, oh no pressure until flush. That's basically, you can move if you can ever a weight flash. If.

L

Your writer is not what we have you, you will.

F

So get memory you keep asking you keep asking for the next chunk and it just keeps making the buffer you're either a tensing new chunk only turns the old one. If it's, what.

Q

H

Q

H

Doesn't kind of funny either right right, they're,.

Q

All the same size underneath all right pieces of memory. It's we give you a different projections depending on whether we're trying to get you the right details. This yeah.

L

And it doesn't have any newness concept. It just has a concept of minimum size if it has minimum size that you requested it'll give it to it. It has optional Iranian sig, get memory, I, guess, looking argument with the menorah, so.

Q

There's a maximum size that support is bigger than 4k. You don't care it.

L

Depends on the pool, so five back is back by the pool abstraction. So if your pool is able to give you like what you ask from the pipe five thrusts from the pool, if pool can satisfy your requests, all good, if not.

L

Y

Doing the advances sort of analogous to giving offset to get memory right, it's just the pipe writer is keeping track of your offset internally yeah. It's.

Q

Offset so the end of a row is basic yeah.

H

Well, it's not only that it also effects flash yeah. Otherwise we will give too much to just you know and offset that you pass the memory yeah. It would work for your right and then wouldn't know how much you written still yeah and.

L

Yeah, you can also complete with the exception, if, if there is a case where you want not, when failed writer fails the reader like, if you don't care, even don't care about there, any further files, you can transfer exception through the you can put it exception to complete code and then read this and you just throw it out of the reader. So it's nice for cases where a complete this optional call.

H

It so I could remove this yellow every program exit the loop as long as I crash at the end, I'm good, good, except the reader, will not know you.

F

Just you, you will just have to really cells, I mean the pipe would die so I mean it know that either I'm done for good I'm, never going to write again so.

H

Then either you can like basically coming either that there is no reason for Taylor to keep waiting anymore.

F

Waiting right, it's completely reasonable, have it so just flip. Do things get to the reader? There's no possibility for anything to get to the reader until watch is called. There is a possibility. There is a method, call to meet and it's synchronous, synchronous, but.

L

L

But pressure is not supporting on that method, so you.

F

Are you're on your own, like if you.

L

F

L

More that I mean.

F

You know that seems to be for a different area. Yeah.

L

We're done yeah.

F

Flush is sort of like give it to the writer or reader yeah. mmm It will give it to the riddle. Okay,.

L

And why do we have commit? So there are some cases. For example, when you read a lot and reader there is a synchronous, read call on the reader drive it. So if you read a lot and read, there is a bit slower, it can catch up to you synchronously without having to risk like to do chase and go back and go through the old erasing thing you just try to like with the channels you had read async and try, or whatever the name of the read it was, but.

Q

It is flow, it's basically self, it's flush, easy without the triggering of a weekly hauler.

L

Q

A waiting reader so.

L

You can continue reading without going into adjacent.

Q

L

Without pressure, without.

F

Pressure on this side, on the other side, so you're saying that there's sort of behavior semantics associated flush, async that doesn't happen with commits or later things. Why don't we call it flash instead of commit, because.

Q

Because it doesn't.

L

Reading reader for one so.

Q

I got it figured a waiting Peters out of you here, so you can only retire an ex.

I

The non-blocking reason the date is there, but you're not on flush. I do have sort of not issue, but there should be a flush that at the moment, since there is only flush, a sink and it takes no parameters. It is a it sort of like a force flush. It means that the reader has to it is consuming the data it has to sort of flush it sorry. The data has to be flushed, whereas there should be a sort of a notify flush where it's of optional that it flushes. If that makes sense,.

J

I

This, if the reader is going back out on the network, you're saying flush, it doesn't know whether there's going to be more data coming soon. So it's going to it's going to immediately write it out to the network. You know it's like it can't a buffer it for a bit to sort of cut down on Siskel's. So.

Q

Today, with advance repeatedly call it fans and not flush, if you wanted to ensure that the reader received big chunks- and that was your only concern, but there's this in between performance concern where it's like well, you're gonna, grab data anyway reader like will give you all of it, but if you're waiting we're just gonna wait until the next chunky thing finishes. Like that's the purpose, it's pretty nuts.

AA

Like TLS since 16k frames and there's a huge overhead per frame and if you're writing that, like a hundred or 200 K from say protobufs, so this is something I've done with Mark and he decides well I. Don't want to wait until written the whole hundred K is that there's a huge latency to there so I'm going to flush at 40 K.

AA

But that means that now the TLS layer has to write three frames, even though the last one is a partial frame because it doesn't know if there's more data coming or not so it has to write out their partial frame, whereas if I knew there's more data coming I can actually say well, I'm going to hold off right in this partial frame because there's not a full 16k.

AA

So it's a real simple if statement, basically, if some flag comes through this is this is the end of the message then I have to write or if I have more than a frame size, then I have to write otherwise I'm just going to loop back around and wait and not not cause like a network call or a full frame. So it's basically like a an application-level Nagel in a way like I'm gonna, wait for the next full frame, but instead of like nowhere, it's like there's a timeout for it.

AA

I actually understand what the upper layers doing was at the moment. There's no way to communicate that to Allah there without.

Q

Calling advanced a lot and then only calling flush when you're done right.

H

M

H

Then commit to Flash.

F

M

Flush all levels or something.

Q

Yeah, if you have a reader in the middle of read async and you call what you're proposing renaming flush or commit to flush the reader will not that call to read. Async will not finish so. It doesn't feel like a flush to me.

L

I

There's three things: there's there's commit, which is I'm, making the data visible to the other side. So if it happens to be running in parallel, it can opportunist to opportunistically pick it up. Then there's sort of a partial flush which is notify. You know post commit notify the the other person, but they don't have to I've got more data to process, so they don't have to throw it out onto the network and then there's like a full flush which is notify the the reader, but I don't have any more.

I

You know the input data to continue, processing so flush. It now.

L

So we don't have make film feature right now. We have only get.

AA

AA

R

AA

A sink so it's flush, a sink and it's like is partial or you.

W

L

You communicate this, we are such and like we are wearable. If you have more data, if you can pass it as a parameter, you can just drop it into wearable and communicated yes.

F

I can't impossible yeah I feel like I feel like if it's natural and needed, then we should probably support it, but but I also think that, as long as we could add inversion, yeah like you were doing something insane that maybe we can just take what make sure that we're happy. You know. You really believe that we need it.

F

We cut down the surface, we I see how we can see how easily commit flush I, see that I don't and there seems to be a question whether there's a third one, that one is not so clear and I have some people who live this stuff, saying I'm.

H

Not convinced that we need to come, but not only not not convinced, I think it's kind of unless I misunderstand the semantics. It's kind of a trap, because, if I use the wrong api's on the other side and I call commit won't the user be surprised like I just committed these bikes and they don't show up and.

F

It means I, wrote the bytes, but I don't have any need necessarily and.

Q

F

Really really want the reader to see.

Q

Them our tutorial samples and instructional videos will be showing a thing yeah.

L

Commit is just for when you know it when you're running.

H

Opportunity, but if I understand correctly you go commit, it will not trigger a graphic on the other side. That's right! That's right! Any incidents of interest I commit it. What.

F

The heck is going on why there.

H

F

Be other things, I think you're, I think you're really debating the the main I mean it's weather is cold to meet or not you can sort of say you know right bytes or it's not even like you know, push bytes the first level you know or something like that is sort of what it's is, that I'm done with I I know. I can write these bytes I, don't care for your sees them yet, but I'm allowing the buffering system a bad and eat I, and but I, don't K.

L

And that's why they should have different names, so you don't think that you can replace one with the synchronous version and might fix your quote. That doesn't have tasks like you. Don't have tasks. Oh there is a single version of that.

R

Method- let's call it it's that, so why did we think we want to table the the third option.

R

I mean this is like a feature for like very high performance scenarios, and we have like people on the phone saying that they want to use it. And this is my scenario and it doesn't yeah.

Q

They were talking about how they like commit, which is what we're describing yeah the officer in real freedom. By talking about this third option, it's.

O

I

Like a notify that say it's to distinguish between I I still have input data to process. I'm flushing I'm telling you I've committed I've got data to go through, so this includes the notify of the flush async fat. It's not saying you have to process this now, which flash dating kind of says so.

J

I

You only if you've only got say you've done enough work for a half and TCP packet, but you've got more data coming in. You might you'd want to go flush, notify and the either know how much the the next stage in the pipeline has got before it's it's ready to write. There is a when, when a when it's easy, be packets for, for instance,.

L

Station primitives like complete and flash and releasing you want to put more and more data through a queue constantly. Oh, if I could, instead of doing that, if I could pass these objects through the pipe to the other side, it would have been so easy like if there was a state on flash that I got them when when I did read async and we tried to not do that and be simplicity, yeah and I feel like this is just another lesson. Yes,.

H

Everywhere we want some.

L

Flash result on the other side already has two properties.

H

L

H

What would be so welcome parameter two flashes saying that says: you know end of message yeah, but.

Q

L

He might make it yeah.

Q

L

Make it in thread and then why not object? Because maybe you want to first and when were dirty and let's make.

F

All right, why not T.

H

I

L

I

L

Next day, doesn't.

I

Know what the tea that you're passing in flashes, like.

L

I

L

We should put it as a pair on the pipe, if only it changes behavior of the pipe itself, not if just to communicate to the other side of the channel.

F

That's my yeah see, but you can definitely see how you have a small amount of side channel in patient. You know just like two bits or something like that: it's all the freaking time and you're saying set up another pipe and keep them secret on it. But whatever it's I mean.

I

F

I

Sort of previous previously precedent for it. That would be the word and would be in streamwriter, where you have you've, got the flush, your fallback buffer, there's, there's sort of two bird flushes on it. Where you can say, you've got to clear out what you've got in your internal buffer and beep zooming.

L

Let's we are, we don't have so much time. We can become.

L

F

I feel I feel like it's okay like if the advanced features like you, if you get 80% of the benefit and now I totally.

R

Buy that upgrading.

F

R

In the middle of it, and if it's if.

F

R

Adding another parameter with a pool or something simple, and it solves a major case for these guys. So.

F

I think it's fair to have an offline discussion about.

R

It so, but it's just that you know, let's just mark it and we keep going, but that's ok, I just don't want to forget about it. I would.

A

Highly sure, I completely called the difference between almost all do my best of whatever you can fix there.

L

Is an issue on purpose.

L

Yeah so now, let's go go back to the reader for yourself yeah when reader reads cause releasing and runner flushes you get a result. Object result has is completed, consult and buffer buffer is data is completed. Is where the writers complete. You have to check both in that, if not to lose last piece of data. So when you can get it a situation where you got data and reader completed. So if you don't check that your buffer is empty, you born process, the last part. So that's our default parent for an intensive.

H

Reader no writer completed and you.

L

Call it a sink, it'll complete, continue, reading with empty buffers, and it's completely it doesn't lock. It immediately return forever. You can go into there yeah, and then you call advanced advanced just else pipe that you can return the memory to use the segments reuse, the memory.

L

So that's pretty much. The simple use case of.

H

So I have a I mean I. We talked a bit about this and I think improve the api's. I still think it would be useful to have a defense that takes an int for the cases when I I did something with the data and I have an int. Then you have C Conn the writable background, but you also have C and you can just call seek inside this advanced detects. You don't want to.

L

Encourage people to force reworks of the buffer if they can avoid, so it should be their conscious decision to I.

H

Know I write 5.

K

Bytes and now I'm trying to advance by 5 you.

L

K

Extension with.

L

It it's very trivial and it's very and it's it's a spitter. It's it's not easy. It's a performance trip yeah, but you wouldn't know like the.

K

Same person, but.

L

The person read a lot and it would still put it there. You know that you know that we GT posse. No, no, but thick is hard to find, and it's you know like I want people to not not to seek and not not to put in there, because, like you, ask the consumer of the Setai I don't want to make the easiest way. The slowest and advancing within would be the easiest way, but it will still be slow unless I advanced by a multiple of perfect sizes. It's not.

O

So but I don't.

L

I cannot, we cannot select what people will give water tests. You will give everyone the sanitary and the person for advanced Nek would still call the in person. We have arrays for cases where you.

L

Yeah but advanced, wouldn't say advanced, but I use this over I use this method over log, because I have a small int right. If you have a huge eNOS, you wouldn't know, I won't.

H

Fight it by myself, I just wanted to point this out that, like for people that, like I, think somebody is trying to you know it's not an expert on pipelines and it's you think you guys have been using it in very high performance and are you somebody just wants to basically have a reasonable. You know to sell consumer trying to make rap, you can head around razón buffer and why would I pass it basically I'm, looking at the API in the intellisense, it says reader data at best, okay, awesome. When I was writing.

H

I had an int over load. It was taking an end now I'm looking for the same one. It takes a position I'm like how the hell do I get position.

L

H

500 bytes, how.

L

Do I get the position, he did anything with the original buffer. You know that there are positions there like every operation on read-only buffer takes position so.

H

L

Of have to know if you can reuse.

H

Because I got written pattern and then I wrapped it in there either and I. Just read fine on some it and.

L

Then reader has.

H

Position regard of position so.

L

The test I'm not saying that it's not do it I, just yeah, that's what I don't want to give the same way. That is the the waste efficient.

A

One has to call it at all, because I mean may see if you don't call it variance it's where the way you have to know, there's nothing I, think in intelligence or naming the suggested every generation of it will throw. You know I'm telling to coalescing twice about polling events, machine you'll or.

H

Say it again, if you don't call it Vince at all, and you call again, you've gotta get an exception yeah. So you have to call one of the advances.

L

Yeah, you have to finish reading operation register. It.

Y

So why isn't one of the reader advanced itself? Why do you have to call events explicitly on reader or result? Opera end doesn't know how much you consume. Yeah.

L

Doesn't know how much to consume three.

Y

There's an arco that leads you into a very yes.

F

Y

So you need to get a position in the middle that how much you've been advanced by that? Yes,.

J

Y

You have a read it then it seems like it would be a lot easier until do a partial, read yeah. That's.

L

A yes, but it depends on how to how to get to them. They're, like you, get written with buffer and you do just index into so. You cannot for I equals zero to not only done the buffer.

H

And you say is single-span: oh yeah, okay, let me get the first boundary two five bytes.

L

And then say: I'm done, okay, if you're reading my advice, maybe you don't think I've read more. My pipe is like four big buffers because you have to cross segments if you written five, but the thing is is that is that people are writing.

F

Code trying to follow your guidelines or whatever it were, making code that is terribly you know- might grow into that. So ideally, he doesn't have to make a trade-off like right in a different way. If I'm writing a toy thing and write, you know a different way if I'm writing a big thing so.

Y

So let's say you process, 30, bytes or whatever in process data in result over. How do you get a position, then, from that 30 number result that buffer that start, that seats, 30, yeah, okay,.

Y

But then there's the question so that there's no it's state then did you change the name of seek or is it? Is it still seek whatever we decide, the new name is.

L

Y

L

In the advances a little yeah it'll make your position so result that get position buffer got starts. We can add an overload of get position that takes int only hint and up says the start.

A

So what me, how actually is some more code when I try to fill in the blanks of the be part? My many multiple saws? It's basically like you know that say, I'm starting to read so I expect a header. So I basically say you know, do I have enough, but do I find a pole. Well, don't find it cause are open up data it so just skip for the next loop and say you know. Give me give me, give me more data, and so like the first thing that I.

H

A

Find it it would if that I have to call advance, but it's ticked it. You know this for granted, so I spend the next time so now I find the colon. So now I said you miss lies from 0 to where the colon is so that's my name and then I say: okay do I have data after the colon.

Q

Oh great, alright and then I have to you, don't have to check for data after the call. That's one thing about this pattern, though: let's construct it like I have to cut it. There's.

A

Something there's there's nothing there, so I'm saying right now: I have to spin again so I would say if you how much did I just read while I read the name, the consul's. Next, you know six bytes, so they said my mental model is I would basically is some condition. I do some parsing I do advancing. You know. My next thing happens so basically always advance in between I don't advance.

J

A

J

Very end, so you can it.

A

Mental model is that they deposit right so.

D

You're basing your say.

A

You know 1259 30 bytes and then actually what I've done wrong.

Q

Well then, whatever the total, so that's what we have a reader, because we have that kind of partisan confessional and that's what that position. Property is for as you progress for it. It tracks so.

L

Usually, when you process through Tommy buffer, you don't get in out of it if you are not using like very simple, spend that whatever methods, if you process a big chunk of a big chunk of data, that's represented by multiple segments you get along with buffer and then you slice it or you use position off, and every of those methods give you something that has position on it. So this only falls off. When you say all right, I just want five first bites and that's a pretty trivial case that five bites.

H

It's for this I think that it was saying I incremental II do five pie it's five thousand times. Well what we are, maybe so I'm not I'm, not saying that you should remove any eyes that you know you read there at written position and just think that and.

L

You shouldn't invest by five bytes. If you have more data to read, it's very inefficient. So if you don't advance the money.

Q

L

Know you have to move so I don't want to mass.

Q

Five times, five thousand, ideally five times, five thousand works. Okay, you know if it gets large enough, it becomes worse. So.

Y

If you don't advance and.

L

Q

Another reduce think that you can accept if you said right, but.

L

You can't, if you want to process, if you get a memory that has five thousand bytes, you just continue looping over a trillion bytes in their view, at.

H

The end only thing it that I kept at the end is a very large integer and then I have to call your method C, so I can get the positions. I can pass it to advance or.

L

You use reader that will give you instead of doing an efficient way you give if you do things efficiently and you get a position, that's useful in that, like I, don't you are. You are correct from the standpoint of writing an efficient code, but if you read the code that we intend people to write, they will naturally get into the place where they have position. The.

A

Thing is the minimum should be named a better from advance to advance to, because to me, advance implies advance by, like, like advanced ten to me, is more advanced to position 10 its advance by 10 I.

B

A

And it's the first thing I looked at was like I.

A

Would imagine like a buffer to work it just incrementally, like you think,.

H

That reader basically does it, then it's true reader is, is what you just asked: what I'm.

G

Saying, like you.

H

H

A hint I do find it. Basically, if you kind of do one of the prescribed spots that we had, you wrap the buffer in a leader and then reader kind of has the API is that I was talking about internal. It has an int and it kind of manages the spans at the end. You basically call it either not advance forever viewing another reader I get another reader which is a bit confusing but find another little dot position.

H

So that's fair, I burned that I, just I think it would help people to learn and play with pipelines, at least, if not for some other scenarios. If we, if we, if they didn't, have to go through the oh now, how do I get back whether.

L

They have to go through it. I don't use the strike pattern, if maybe, if it leads them to find in reader. You know it's even better result of buffer or read-only.

E

Buffer there's multi, segmented.

K

Alright, anyway, I can.

Q

Ask you this all dissected and that position being passive. It's the same.

E

But you really.

L

Ever do puffer Donaire I. Do almost all this yeah.

E

L

Dancing we all, we always thought we almost always consume to some position. Then you have a seat there. No, we use, we use position off to get where we are always slice and we we rarely use six together. Anything if you look at the parser. The first thing we do is we find that a new line. We first start line of the HTTP request. We advance to the position where a new arrows so.

E

There will be multiple passes, possibly in the process data any sort of section. You would be passing a few times. Don't we.

L

Set a variable, usually, if you have to watch multiple times you, you define the position consumed variable and then you said it and in finally you advanced it.

L

Yeah and now we can look at the fallacy.

A

And the F knowledge in order to advance the slides, alright, so.

L

So but writer reader rebasing does what example show drive it is. You can continue reading synchronously if somebody committed or flashed related to you and so try read. When does the treatment falls when there is no data? Anything.

H

Only and if I previously called read, they saying can I basically use them together and I use. You know, read a sink a bit and then try read a bit. Do they work.

H

L

Examined depends on where you examined. If you examine to the end, then you're saying I saw reverently and that's not enough and if you call thread it again, you know like not nothing new, but.

H

If you thought, if.

L

You don't examine to, then you can try read a little bit but.

H

In both cases, you can use them both yeah.

L

Yeah, you can interleave, so usually you would read a sink and then you start to look and then inside the loop. You thread it again, just in case you, you can continue reading this.

F

It ii overlooked for advanced the examine parameter. Does that mean things before that I'm done with I will never care about again means.

Q

On the next read a sink, we always return what's after consumes, so typically we call it dance and you haven't consumed everything. You know the next color read a sink completes immediately with the stuff that you haven't consumed in this second call the advance. It's like: okay, I, haven't consumed everything, but I've actually looked at. Everything is what that's for, and this one so now I.

L

Q

Because I didn't find a delimiter I, sleep run or whatever, so the.

J

Y

Q

Y

More than I examined so can you do an advance on, let's say, a zero position or the start position and then say you examine? Yes, that's what that's common when you don't have enough data to parse this.

H

Is the default of the first overload correct if you pass consumed, that is buffered? That start, we.

L

Didn't change to it, but we consider.

Q

L

Stefan is against it, I think it's fun, because.

Q

I mean so yes, I, don't like implicitly changing the behavior based on whether or not I consumed everything or nothing I. Think that consumes the advance consume. Should you the same? They should have votes. My opinion is that consume should be examined. So my position I'll explain my position.

Q

The one that Christophe disagrees with the one that Coble is like ambivalent about is that my position is Vance with two parameters is to do everything the first advance can, in the way of maps, is that advanced with one parameter is calling advanced the two parameters just consumed. It's also example, so you pass the same yes, so that's the behavior as it stands today. Christophe is suggesting. Let's change that slightly so.

F

They just to be clear when you say that it means that there's nothing in that I. Don't care about right. You know, after.

Q

That consumed, so what I'm saying is the current behavior is the same stays if consumed is the start position right, I'm saying that I've examined nothing in that case and that's weird because that means, if you pass start to advance, then read async returns exactly what it did on your last call every day immediately immediately, which it's very hard to come up with good scenarios, where you'd actually want that behavior they're they're very few. That I could possibly call this well they're somewhat contrived.

Q

So Chris tom is saying: okay, since that's not a real scenario, consuming nothing and examining nothing. Let's just special case that to say I'd consume nothing and examined everything. So only call me back again when there's more data available in this fruit prevents potential accidental, like infinite loops. So the only thing I was changing. What I do.

H

What you said, except the reason for why I wanted this behavior is not because they alternate can sense. The reason for it is to me that's the most natural thing. If I kind of, like you know, I got the buffer. I didn't consume anything because I was trying to find what I wanted to consume and it was not there. So I examined everything I think it's um zero, therefore, don't go again.

Q

Except I think I think, but everything you said it's just very weird, that examine is always consumed. If that one argument overload, except for in this one case like it's super start, so maybe examine should always be all of it, then.

Q

Well, that's what so. That's the other argument, yeah that's at least less modal, so that examined is always buffered end. Yes, I prefer that actually over it's good system, yeah, that's what I know. There's.

H

Q

One right now, if you consuming consumed partial data, if you call just consume, you call read a sink. You're called immediately with the data you didn't see, he's suggesting that if you call consumed with partial data, assume that I've examined everything anyway and don't finish the next one read a sink until there's more data yeah, which.

J

Q

Start passing the start ones, it's a little bit weird if you're, just passing and consumed with partial data and you're not expecting that examine beta.

A

Which circumstances would I not examine everything and I? Do a partial read.

L

And not be waiting for new data. If you have two parts of the problem that take pipe and correlation like imagine, there are two parts, header or part start line and.

P

L

Each of the import', or there is like read prefix that is jason and then read the body that is not jason. Both of them take pipe reader. So you call read a singh. You find the end of the jason part you advance to that part. So you consume that part, and now you immediately want to call first body that has to succeed because you have there, so you don't want to examine everything in the first go.

L

You want to examine whatever you consume, I'll give a stat that one day, because you you just happen to have.

Q

Them in different part of your yeah, it's just about putting code. If you don't super contrived, might not even be real to that point, like I, don't think we use that pattern. Casual I, don't.

J

Q

Do great so we might but.

J

Anyway, there's.

Q

A message, but we could certainly work around it, I, just don't like the fact that it's Moodle, if we choose that other favor so.

A

I'd, like the other.

Q

Counter-Argument.

A

For the first one, I give you: if we let say me, we have the semantics and same position is examined as basically, it was the bottom of that pattern. If you don't want to make it more than this at the first API is basically buggy yeah. You cannot reliably call the first one yeah.

Q

There's too many kills yeah if you're ever in a situation where you don't consume. Anything then use that first advanced.

A

Form because I think the point of the day P is that it's basically Edinburgh, you know boyfr, you may be less efficient, but you're this it's a boy. You know that's API, like yeah, the mighty bit of some of the winter tapi is at the head, which you know that, while it depends upon would only ever work with the follow any exists or something I mean basically, you're gonna pull the, and so that's the same here they took a beans API. Then it should work in all cases, their.

Q

Dirt, certainly are some scenarios where you would write or leader. Let me get away with only advancing using the first day. Guy like it's too. It's it's not very useful, especially considering it's like a simple one, and it should be simple. Please I was saying the simplest scenario. Is you get away with calling advanced first API every time without any pitfalls, but you're right? If there's ever situation, where you do nothing, then you would need to call the second API, given the current.

Y

Q

Should be the default, the only pitfall is I'm telling you like. If anyone ever its up using this API outside of us is that people are gonna say: oh I, guess you have it? Why is my extra day sick, not returning, but a little will examine so.

H

You're saying it consumed partial I mean exam into the end, even if I consume partially yeah.

L

H

Then you're gonna end up with people being deadlocked. Yeah, that's right say: yes, they won't see the data yeah, I I, don't think.

L

That, if you consume.

H

L

H

Well, because I, basically we refactor in my code. So then each lead is independent. Everything line by line right, I, consume line, I, consume line, I, consume line and right before the light last line, because I already got all the data but I consumes. You know not everything I loop again and it never returns. I mean it's really bad. It's frustrating! That is quick. Why.

L

Didn't you consume? There are two variants because.

H

I was reading line by line eating it and.

L

H

On line it was already in the buffer, so I got it. Then why didn't you read it because I have a loop.

L

H

That you have in your slides, I, don't.

Q

Have a loop and inside the loop back up yet, and it's managing the slicing for you right like or it would be if it behaves the way it does today, you shouldn't do that. You.

L

Should read all the you guys like.

Q

Okay I mean there is.

L

A there is a counter-argument to every of the ways we write it advice tree and.

L

They're consumed and examined is too complex for them, so the only other.

V

H

L

The one argument so.

H

The only argument that I charge for the you know against the consumed if it's zero I consumed everything, otherwise it's I consumed whatever I examined whatever I consumed. The only argument is that it's model yes.

X

J

The best it's basically.

X

Like an abstract argument,.

H

Show me code where the code would be I.

B

Find the doctor.

H

B

H

Or something the only thing that this code would be is maybe inefficient, but it's not like a deadlock.

Y

Sore, certainly,.

H

Less intuitive.

Y

They say you consume zero, bytes and you've examined everything, but then you consume one byte now all of a sudden following exam at one bite. Yes, that yeah.

H

Blue but you wrote the code, so you don't need to I understand that it's not as intuitive what I'm saying is you write the loop that he showed you the slide? It always works. Yes, it will be looping by one bite, but it works versus all the other combinations that we discussed. They have a problem with either they deadlock or summer. They're.

A

H

To entertainment, worker yeah.

A

I think I mean I, think the general I mean tennis base is saying I think so what college is saying it? You know basic sense to just kill the faith at all, takes an argument. Yeah I would say that the benefit of this API is that it's it's much easier to understand. What's going on, I mean if you look at like your your loop example, you can basically write that loop and get something to work mullet if Li quickly yeah. Now.

A

Yes, it's not efficient, but you have something that works and can tweak it from there and I think the problem is, if you're presented with this API service. The question is whether you would succeed in like half an hour to get anything to work at all. Like thanks forget about efficiency. Just doesn't work at all and so I think the question is we want to make it easier people to learn the API and like target and get out of it.

A

I would suggest icky to on the one argument and make it just work out all cases and lifted the fact that, yes, you can write a loop that will scan.

H

By a byte by byte and also I, think that so there's a difference between like shoe performance traps and like code, that is slight. In addition, you can kind of optimize. It I think this is an example where you can optimize the code defuse the other overload. It's not like it's complete disaster, because I use the first one.

L

I agree with you, because that's the only the only the only behavior that cannot lead into the either in to include for them. So it's it's just you.

Q

Can be serious so like I, don't like you.

V

Doesn't like III, don't like.

Q

I not gonna, stop my Hill to die on.

L

Especially if it's apparent ended for the first time, users did.

L

You don't think it's helped the experts, let's go for the pencil pen and read, we have installation talking on the releasing, but translation tokens are not that efficient. You have to create a new concession to can source. If you want to cancel it and registration is also a kidding. So.

F

Given that you had agreed unique.

L

Cancellation touch me: we had it for the consumer school already, have it and don't.

F

Want to write that.

L

And it's semi optimized, but so in hydrology pool just ignore.

F

Sight of it for you, each if.

H

Cancellation source was an interface. We could have a pattern that is similar to cancellation source and yet not allocate direct, because, basically, what you will do is you would I assume you have somewhere and int.

H

That is your cancellation event.

H

Yes, basically that's what the cancel pending read. You have mutates, and somebody else observing is this intend advanced EPS. So imagine that you would have an interface called a consolation source, okay and you would have a method on vibrator or on five create one of those. You would return an interface and the implementation of the interface would be still the same type that has this this int. That I was talking about. Why? How is it better than just can serpent blah I'm not like pushing for it? I was just asking it's in my opinion.

H

It has the advantage that it kind of looks like the existing pattern. It's basically cancellation stars accepted an interface, and, given that it's an interface, you can amortize its allocation across all the contexts that you have here sure but object as you have.

L

Today, with cancellations, our pattern is not returning things from classes, it's sticking cancellation, token into methods. So it's not at the same pattern.

Q

I would like to say that cancel pending read is pretty easy to kind of work with the single cancellation. Token likes pretty trivial, just to call cancel pending grief on register call back the only thing, that's kind of hard and the reason that we kind of a comb in it. As far as the interface is like when you might have a trigger that changes from recall recall like it's one thing: if it's a trigger for the lifetime of the pipe and that's pretty easy, you just have a single register.

Q

I, don't see a reason to change it from just having the method, because it's an interface existed that you suggested easily look to that as well. Yeah I was like I like the way it is with the single method.

H

If I just mentioned it, because David.

L

Was asking me there was one just I hate talking. Iii went like for every.

H

A I think in this system provides a mechanism palette allocations, but now I just thought about, like we have this interface I think we could make it without allocations. The question is whether it's worth it.

L

Or not, if user needs to wire it to a new thing every time it wouldn't do without allocations anyway, but if user gets cancellation talking, for example- and he doesn't know if it's a new constellation talking to wire this new interface to his construction talking, he was neat Ellicott, it's true when you say on which consumer offer a vibrator, he gets.

L

He gets some translation token right from somewhere, okay and he wants to cancel reader. If this concession token fires to married them together, he would still need to allocate and register all right. If you know that you would have one only one source of information, you can just call cancel plan agreed, but if the source of information changes every time, you will have to interconnect them some way and okay, most of the.

Q

Time I also just kind of note like this is obvious, like that cancel pending reasons like the one third say or like super safe call from another thread, part of your I five reader, other girls.

A

Q

Used to each well.

G

L

I would honestly expect yeah exactly. It should be honest. It's not so. We advocate this way. I said single producer single consumer. We advocate that three days and try read advance and complete our code from the single thread and even better from the single method thing like single, logical flow, because when you start using it, but it doesn't allow multiple reads: it doesn't hello read after complete, like it has so many limits that you better have a one vertical flow where it's like I read: I loop, I, complete, undone, I, consider.

S

L

Maintain state it was unexpected, said anyway, yeah it's just. We try to use it from the like complete from one point of the application. While reader is writing the loop and the other, and it didn't what happens if I complete, with an exception when it does the exception propagate from the other side it it.

L

Where is it now, flushes.

A

Interrupts basically, I call complete. You take the exception. You put it aside, yet the other guys the other side to the right and it blows up.

L

At the same with the writer you put it in the computer of the writer, so passing exception from leader to writer is not a very common case. I was.

A

About to say like what, what's annoying with that symmetry.

L

S

Q

A

Q

Network failure or something and report it like in your application I try to parse something as it was invalid, yeah.

L

If you don't hear on the other side, the new is that given, if without parsing, if without parsing the data, you cannot continue consuming the what writer produces you can just okay, I know: I stopped writing yeah. You can force yet reinforce.

Q

Ready to stop for in the today I said stealing edits, but I would I was a failure. Yes also.

A

That also else, along with cancels car incorporating.

V

L

V

You don't have a way to the.

L

Q

We have been so kind of flush right, but that's a for the writer to cancel. It's always a.

V

So I mean we're kind of.

Q

Cancel yeah complete, except it's.

L

The only way you can for.

Q

You just complete, or you can consume enough data that no.

L

Q

L

You don't complete without exception, yeah.

Q

L

The writer yeah yeah, it will just you, can all the.

Q

Region around just a failure.

A

To say that if the leader says complete the right of students right the right, it does stop I divided, it was just fun.

L

Life lustration would return a flush result that has is completed true, but you can continue right. Saima be cool to ride, to.

V

Know up, but you would see.

Q

This completed by old on so the reader, the leader cults, complete and the writer and the writer called flush.

A

Acing then, the writer can ask the flush result whether the renewables, though yeah yeah, see I, knew.

D

A

The writer doesn't care, then just keep writing and nothing that happens. Do it should.

Y

I pipe rider have some sort of write function.

L

Y

L

Influence I output, the casket memory again and address so.

H

I have a question about the completed offense defense.

L

L

There was a reason.

L

Q

Think one reason like this comedian today, like what all back o state good State.

L

Oh yeah, because.

Q

L

Don't want to easily like multiple state out of it or you need to capture. We don't want to capture things. Sometimes you want to register a callback without having to allocate the closure, and this is to share with the copy can I just any color. You want yeah, but often you want to provide prevent an allocation and you want the state passed enjoy public. That's.

H

Why, when I don't.

L

H

Once I not sure the website view was a location, so.

A

The volume is you.

H

Want to register an event, yes, delegate a favor you'll.

A

Come back to the particular state that you can do a normal event as the wave ends work you can only ever pass in it there's no way for you to pass in an object like this. You only pass in the callback. No yes, here with.

Q

Our board without capturing it when you register the event you want to write state as well without closure. How do you do it? Oh, when you register it's not when it's getting covered yeah, that's why it stays I'm gonna.

H

Shot like you know, Yokohama State. What.

G

H

G

H

G

Is fired back to the colleague, but what happens will say object it gets passed into line over it's like scheduling. Like the other day. It's like every.

F

Other state we have another lot of it gets passed. Okay,.

L

And what do you.

S

What do you do? Is the state.

L

You just want first, the valuable data into.

H

It just not that I proposed API, but just understand the model. You could have an event and additional methods. Here's an object pass me when you call the event. No.

L

But you'd need it for every event, like every event would have to have a different its own object. Why can you call this a be able to Pattaya yeah? You.

H

Can call it ten times yeah with ten different doctor yeah and the ten callbacks will be called each with a different doctor.

F

Trying to avoid people needing capture which doesn't.

H

Accent! No, no, but.

G

H

Don't see a scenario: why would I want to I could call it more than once. That's the question.

A

Well, I had I mean, presumably you have to hear this now or something right exactly right.

L

Elise right pool with the thing it's pretty efficient, but it still gets sometimes well. I know gated.

F

Alia, this the only way is I mean it's not a single field, which means it's got a probably a like list. It's a pool array, let's build it up, hold it right.

M

F

Just gonna say that's: if you're, if you're expected count is 1, then there's sort of no point making a pool array. I kind of agree is that my.

L

F

L

Why do one in the weren't even tomorrow's multiple subscribers questions.

A

I guess all do I mean neck. So if you maintain the list today and if you wouldn't have a state I think it should just be any better job, is it actively it's the same thing like what.

J

We want to stay for.

A

Sure you need to stay that I, don't have a solution with an event and the other thing is like. If, let's say you don't have multicast you only a single cast, then again. Also this method would make more sense, because events would always resolve it. Like you know, bookie cats, but.

H

Yeah well, if you hook up one callback to the event, you kind of I think we might actually políticas. We have a yeah which is not. Protocol is only potential well, ah the.

A

Object states I mean I, mean we have this optic state in other places. That report but see dinelli Department to the threading evening eyes, because the end, no one else: okay, yeah I, guess it is like if you need a pattern. Yes, like.

G

It's becoming apart, there's.

A

Something most of the time I got the same thing like here in other areas like you, you want to basically not have a closure. That's the only way to avoid a floater like I, don't know how to do it.

H

That's it I think. That's slightly different thing. We often a bad idea is with the delicate takes more parameters, so we can avoid closure and pass the parameters explicit right then I understand that pirate. That's completely is sane and Rama by this one another. It's re, not things it. This one is kind of weird I mean we don't do.

V

That very often, why what's weird I'm, not.

F

Sure I understand um isn't that what's happening here, we just I would take a parameter and Rapunzel dr. Lewis.

A

V

A

Gives you two different places right? You have the place, they register the event and it's just a normal event. That's.

L

A

That you can, she ate the object to be a positive state in the state service.

L

Of the object but through test run, does grant, takes and delegate with an object statement.

F

You pass a state in its various sensors in.

Q

That registration.

F

Q

Any time that you try way too close you and be like dude, does the AV I'm calling have a state object? Thank you. That's the question to whether you can avoid the closure or not like it's, that simple oftentimes yeah, which method.

K

You just talked about that scrum or touchstart. No yeah just start new, because it's not this one. Yes, but okay, it's real real : I know I know. Well, it's really really common. In.

H

A friend start api's. Yes, yes, you kind of you know. You're, like you, can just continue going on the on the different drives in another register.

J

H

It's not you immediately continue. It's like a haze there's an event. You know that fighters like Red Bull, Texas trip, pool cue work, item, cues Organa. Yes,.

L

S

Will be a palpable.

A

Sort of oh yeah, let's see any other sub-option and by the method it takes both. It.

L

Doesn't really matter if we can have one or multiples if the zero is still the same, the signature will stay the same I.

H

Mean one one thing that I don't like about this method. Is it kind of looks like an event I wonder if it should be called the register? Yeah I will register completion, callback or something like this, sir I.

A

Mean like the one syntax is usually for the thing that triggers there yeah. If registers very.

L

Well, like you know, the.

A

L

Token sales register select start suspect.

A

We start using I just have a register.

L

Q

L

Process, for example, in cancellation, took a register, go back or just register something with register so.

H

L

H

Additional question: so what is the typical scenario? What object would you pass here this often times and what is this.

S

But because the class where you are yeah like no, but what is.

L

It you welcome to JavaScript brain to the feed frame. Processor.

Q

P

Q

Wherever I'm trying to look like wherever it is, when I'm trying to register your call, usually I want access to the field or something I.

F

Mean but I think it is a set of parameters that are coming in I, understand.

H

What it does I was just kind of trying to think whether it's the same method, because if it's the same method, that comes this thing and then you know call three distinct in the loop. You don't need to like store other.

Q

Things scheduling like timer, you know in its constructor and stuff they've got big state like it's pretty talent, so.

F

I anyway, it's okay, what's the name? What's the name we want for this thing like there was a question whether we want to call on writer completed, register, write your completion, call that C- or this should be a salt problem. I just don't know what the answer is, which is that we've had this problem before. When did we? How did we call these things in the other cases, and then we should call pattern. That's done well, I.

A

Think these don't really affect the naming of this incorrectly, like we have a P as an impairment that actually do have the on syntax in the TIC continuation like, for example, task waiter, does it oh yeah I guess maybe that is the name for Olivia yeah.

F

I think it's okay, it's okay! Alright,.

L

F

L

Session token' face register, goldberg doing it, and today she has to.

F

Go to Edison yeah, it's called register. I register. I think it's way too generic, unless there's really only one.

M

R

It would possibly be the.

F

Name of the class okay.

L

So next, if we it's good enough, as it is yeah, if you went through read.

H

Better next thing will be: oh one more question, sorry about regional writer. There is result and right results. Can you explain why the is canceled and is completed cannot be on the writer and the reader interface. So imagine situation where you so.

L

It's for data atomic. When you did, for example, you had read a single just returns buffer. You will read some data and then you want.

L

Completed so you do five dot reader to dot this completed, but completion happens in between where you read data. What happens is somewhat somebody writes more data and then completes immediately. So when you read this completely, it's true and you process the last X of data and you format so.

H

It's over isn't that.

L

H

I'm aware of this issue, could you update the properties when, when the read returns? So basically, if you, if you got the buffer from the previous, read yeah and there's something going on, you don't update the complete it. So where do I put computer, you store it in some other field and then you swapped it when.

L

When they read complete, read is incomplete, so you've only update this completed one generation capacity. So so it's always the value based on the target.

H

You just you just give me the same like that. Why do you like? It is because it's a one I. We already talked about this issue.

H

They gave me some reasons and I couldn't come up with a solution now I'm proposing it first, but presumably at all exactly so, then the reason is I'm seeing like you know, I'm looking at pipe reader and I I found the methods read a say and I would like to see like it gives me the thing that I read, but it gives me a read the result and then I have to like scroll, find documentation, whatnot and you know kind of keep drilling before I get to the readable buffer.

H

You want the offer to be that the only thing that really.

F

Seen returns is that the idea there is also expensive. All the extras are just on the is also it saves.

H

You a few dereference effectively it's not about like the cost of the references. Just mental model correct, like you know, read.

Z

H

You'd most read methods in the framework. We change the thing that they read: yeah return the part you know stream that read issue the bytearray. It doesn't give you something that gives you buy. It.

F

Things were, error. Nose is like sword on a local variable, because this is one last little thing that I need sort of what these are. Like. You know the crap that you put in in that revocable variable and you're kind of local I, don't know what you were proposing, but it sounded a lot like that. We have this thing. We swap it in and we put it on the.

G

Apical variable because it yes, let.

F

Q

Beyond the idea and beyond.

F

N

Was nice bad but if you learn la and or won't explain.

Q

N

Is a reason it feels.

Q

That way to be is what I call read a sink and I see properties on a read result like oh, those values were probably taken. Sorry yeah, we're probably taken at the times that are in read, operation completed it when read a sink completed its task, if it's just on the iPad freedom like are those current like? Is that thread safe, like I, just called I just called rather not.

L

Complete, why isn't why isn't reader properly not updated via weekend Cassata funny we could Jack last last week, cancer. Last week she pleaded had I.

F

Mean like your, but then it won't be useful. I think it is discoverable with at Ellison's to find the buffer. You got a result, you look, you start type thought and there it is buffer. You know you're one hot away, so it's really just a question then, just to be honest, like I, think the original thing I looked.

A

At like made me more and easy like this one I like more because I like the fact that we have some symmetry I would still like it would serve a better if the by provider would have a right basic method. That would return the right result, but I think the the this one is like symmetric enough that it's kind of clear will you explain.

F

Isn't it right.

A

Result because.

F

You're, basically, like you, take.

A

The you on output and then you get basically a memory or span from there. Then you because.

H

The async thing is for back pressure.

H

/ and because when I get it and not the other, not if.

A

You think about flush, a singing we dancing. It's really the points that transfer the data to the other side right, yeah.

L

Y

What's that for sweet, iPod connection and iPod where's one you.

L

W

L

The dislike, can you go to the previous slide yeah, so there is nothing that we shoot that will implement our collection where.

B

L

C

L

C

L

Freaking zones.

C

Of red, flashing or I do that.

L

Here we go no, no serious, so I'm gonna. Let there is a nice picture. What's what is my prediction now even yeah this? So we have often recon situations where we will do faulted plugs? Yes, L do plaits and while we don't shoot anything fully uses so often like man, I get it requested body is full duplex. We don't right into the same pipe, but we have two together and different part.

Q

Together or pass them around.

L

Together, even type signature.

Q

Looks exactly like both sides of the single duplex but like the one, either they're very different, because Tiffany the eyes are going to one and not the other. But you.

H

Could you could create a type called duplex pipe that, instead of having reader and writer, it has input and output and gives you connections correct, yeah,.

L

Where are you guys, what did you do? G CL, yeah.

H

L

To have this exchange type somewhere, I'm saying, like you know, have it agree tight.

H

Clear pipe duplex pipe: oh you mean his inside just tribes and gives you the.

L

Connections it'll be like you have to pass in five options for every five and then you don't want to. You want to get pipe objects themselves, not only the ends and it's easier to just implement on something. It's super easy to implement. You always have two pipes, you stop it on the type you return it and is that, but it's so useful to have in the detail, because that's what we use. That's what we expose muscle, isn't not just what.

H

A socket that's a pipe connection. So now the name yeah, the name is kind of I know we talked about this in the past and we couldn't come up with anything better I wonder whether people can brainstorm.

G

H

To brainstorm or with Matt I can't be called something we do plugs in it or something I, don't know what what is the next type, but I put you on.

S

Board yeah: have you.

H

And is and a 2-foot spot, but.

S

It's only one end of.

H

The Empire.

Z

Yes, the word is two points point usually.

H

Z

To divide but I, usually pepper, you want your line, but if you wanted to I know.

Q

But streeted are.

H

There so another but easy they said I could pipe and I pipe. If I see a type called duplex pipe I would expect it to be twice. As you respect all four.

M

H

Not right, it's exactly the.

M

Same connection, they are really.

L

F

Famous heart is the ethically other concern that I had by the way by not dropping duplex, you make it I. Think I could have guessed at it a whole lot better right, like I. Really that gave me a useful piece of information that allowed me to guess what it was for. It was good what I got.

Z

F

Pipe connection.

Z

F

Z

Toe manager, a lot of managers, but.

Q

I feel, but so.

A

Q

Leg something realistic.

A

With the connection thing is like too thick III pipe, given that it only to be done, writer looks like a very stable interface that be very unlikely to want to add to that connection sounds starts to sound like something that we eventually find ourselves to say all right. We have an I-5 connection. Do every night connection three, even and then that's the thing where I'm like well, unless I mean this is why I'm generally not a fan of like putting st.

A

Nick's exchange to have four actively into the system, because if we already know what the shape, but it sounds more like you know, we expect this to become an exchange, but we haven't really.

B

A

It yet so that.

L

We use it, but just look inside the pipeline's, a systemic pipelines we use and guess so, for example. So it just exists yourself, wanted.

Q

To expose more data on not for us, but we use it alongside like a bunch of other thing so well,.

F

It can always be put into a limit very often really, but but the question is: is just this concept just having to buy the two-way communication? That's like super useful right, I. Think there a lot of you guys, don't want that around I.

L

F

It's okay, better.

L

When you get only one likes, or only one set of the time, I don't define it like whenever you're.

F

Getting data you probably want to send something back.

AA

Definitely use that today and Marx used it as well and rid us, because if you have TLS, for instance, you, the TLS becomes an I pipe connection, so you pass your socket into TLS and then that backup to the next thing, so you're always exchange like an ID pipe connection. You.

F

Found a desire to put extra crap on it, you know other things as well or you know what I'm saying the concern.

AA

Often you know what's that, because normally the Knicks land like the paws are just cares about gigabytes. It doesn't care if it came from a Taylor Slough or it came from.

J

The socket directly or a file I.

J

Start putting file.

Q

Or socket properties on the I hide connection, it's.

H

Only after thinking about this snake for long enough, what would you call it? You I.

L

Would keep it up of connection because I'm just.

Q

L

Q

I like connection throughout 30 places there, it just makes it more scary sure, there's the.

AA

Problem with connection is, if it's coming from a file.

C

But duplicate connections do what I do.

Z

F

S

On the phone, what would you call it.

M

S

L

S

Z

Not on the phone.

R

It's Friday: why not? Why.

H

Don't we go to this webpage that randomly generates nays, okay,.

L

H

L

A

Don't we go to.

L

H

No, we absolutely have.

A

Five minutes over, like we think they haven't like do. We think we should just spend another 25 minutes to go through it, or should we just won't be for the next war that we haven't finished properly? The.

L

Reasons just implementation and options that, if you go to the last, like two more times, yeah.

R

Janus passwords on.

I

The name it might be worth thinking about how it would look with in the middle as well.

I

Well, so if you had socket to tier last decompression to parlor to something that doesn't work.

L

For a July pipe.

F

L

I

Be more than one two ends if you said when there are other chunks, so that might give a better idea on naming I. Don't.

A

Know why you would do this, because, basically my understanding was similar to I knew move over, but you just pass a lot. The thing is an ID pipe connection and whether that is actually coming from a compressor or something else you don't care about. On the other side,.

I

Yeah no I'm just saying just looking at it as here's one side of the pipe in here is the other side of the pipe. What do we call those if you're thinking about it? Well, actually, it's a whole bunch of segments it. You know it might give you a different.

J

In crystal, they call it an adapter effectively write it slightly connection, adapter or stream.

A

Yeah, this goes down the spring framework naming convention right. The pipeline provider, factory manager, adapter pattern.

A

AB

A

Name I can think of is either I do place. Five oil pipe connection, the only problem of my duplex fibers, also that it places it is it's also an eye height which it's not right so, like I, think I pipe in here. Actually.

F

So I thought of duplex point when I think of something to put I think if it's something being cloned twice so I think of it as having two pipes, which is what it is. Oh, it's.

S

Why not use a tuple of tuples.

U

S

Do you mean, as an exchange.

Q

The process, here's the problem, if you don't have a pipe connection or something all right, you push like as a site to the PCM. People will use a pipe for the exact same purpose because it has the right properties and.

F

V

Then you end up: I have a statically true.

Q

It's definitely true, but what.

H

Now, if they start implementing.

S

H

But now the issue that it creates another one there.

Q

Are two interfaces.

H

That are exactly the same. Somebody tries to implement the pipe and they are like well as.

F

Long as the darling is one.

K

F

A

Yeah I mean if the summary text says duplex somewhere in the text is fully fine, because you see the media intelligence dude all right. So.

L

Then we talked about private, so pipe has reset. I five doesn't have reset. So this is the feature of our implementation. It can be resettable if both sides call complete. You know that they are like they wrote or read all the data, so you can reset it again and you can reuse it for the next.

A

Request this is another question hat so like okay, I create a pipe I, pass it to a message. I pass the reader to a method that once an i5 reader, can the message basically just take the I, PI reader and cost back to pipe. Like is reader and writer. Returning this yeah everything returns. This awareness output, like.

F

Everything, that's that's implementation thing that, yes, it leaks and it's unfortunate in some sense, but you're screwed and that's good. You.

Z

F

Generally, don't do this on our side, like the.

A

F, you have awakened.

K

A

K

Times like, for example, google, don.

C

A

An array right and then people see all as the output and then we said it some versions of framework like would it be nice? If you wouldn't return you an array but something that implements get numerator differently, so it doesn't allocate. Did that broke a ton of apps, because it's your last the upper lower range. So like same with other things, we gently wrap other collections return types. We don't.

Z

You can actually cast you're just pointing out that compatibility, sucks.

F

And then people.

A

So you know the purpose of what it's like, if you, if you think what you're getting here, is like segregation of concerns, so the reader can try, the writer can read I, don't think it would get by serious if you care about I want different properties, because I really don't want to see the combination of pipe leader and pipe rider on the same type, because it will be confusing SL. Then you get.

Z

F

I mean I, wouldn't I also think it does push people and roughly the right directions, you're pointing on you when, with push comes to shove, people do crap well.

Z

I mean like this I'm.

A

Saying if you try to just segregate it so that readers don't write about it, don't we I, don't think you will get that like if.

Z

Somebody is like just you know: I.

G

Don't think thing is old.

A

Whatever like, they will figure out that it's pipe and then it would just cost it of it right right.

Q

So one way to still.

G

Have it segregate.

Q

This into two interfaces I'll say that one of the first things he did in Kestrel is try to pass just the one interface to the side that needs it, and there were a couple places where we're doing some like dodgy stuff like to avoid connections and stuff, and it helped us point that out like right. So of course, it's up to the user to do things the right way. The.

H

Problem is that if they wanted to fix this issue, it would mean that they need to have one. No, we just have everything inside the sub quest. No, but that doesn't solve the problem.

H

You're saying you would create an internal class that then wrapped is wrapped in this chart. Well still, you can get reader and cast it to a writer, because you implemented two interfaces on the same object and if you implement it on two different objects, then you paint code. The cost of cutting two objects like I'm, not gonna,.

G

Do it, this is a few I give you only if you want to enforce it like you have to I, don't think it's a clean.

F

Way this this happens all over the place and we give it up and we should continue giving up. So what.

M

About the pipe options, is it defaulted say.

H

That, because the listener does it show oh I have to pass by. You have to pass a pool. Why not use the default cuz.

L

We want people to consciously select the pool really. Why? Because it's important, why so.

A

Yeah, if you have to make one important determination there like, if you don't choose for them, they will make a random choice. Okay, it's not just.

F

Only basic matter that you pick the default no.

L

F

Better than random thing: okay,.

L

Maybe it's came from the perspective that our pool was period, but the kestrel spool that we put into we didn't want people to selectively, and now we decided that we would. We would use array pool by default, so I think we can be for pool to array, pool dude yeah.

A

So now you can do so. What I would do is I would add. A default property may be like on pipe options like coat default and then just have an overload of five diversities. Progresso.

D

A

Just take it focused.

B

L

You explain the.

B

L

The Panopto sculpture, the minimum signal size, o minimum size diamond, says load. There is a reason slide about it. Oh, we need to rename those. Yes sure, just give us a lie. Exactly.

H

Sure we can retain bit, let's just let.

K

Us just do.

H

It all so the API reviews I, don't rename it five times, so these are basically thresholds. Our back pressure, they're, the ones aside with the back pressure and I, propose that we just call it something with the word back pressure, because otherwise, what's our impression.

P

And dress code, so the pressure starts.

L

When you cross muscles as high and as when you cross money.

F

So these are my suspense, but pressure is not activated.

N

Properly and they sort dish, sighs, hi love this be bigger than sizable. Yes, yeah we're.

Q

The same now, they're the same that can lead us a thrashing and by 3G part, is same yeah right, bigger is the get hope is absence of pressure all together. It's.

L

Q

L

Think it's still an expected concept to just throw on people like we limited your pipe by 248 randomly. So we don't leave with you until.

D

Is zero me like.

L

No global pressure just need to do more what else? Because of so in place of of in sized segments of Limerick.

Q

Afraid, let's hurry to set the basket.

L

Our that would.

J

Be like maximum.

Q

Rashing, which means you know every.

L

Q

Leads to read: there's the Lightning coalescing so.

E

The low should be first argument, then panic I was talking about it. Oh.

Q

Yeah to be clear, I'll I gets it first, though right and then low matters yeah. It.

K

Q

Lower bone weight.

K

F

H

Internet yeah right well, so what happens? If you set the back pressure, both thresholds to one and then you call a resize on the writer size? What happens what do mean on experience that okay, so the first time we.

Q

Like we noted back pressure, you can write. Ls I mean the first time you have an opportunity to force back pressure, flush, okay,.

F

So, by the way, a given that it looks like we can have a pipe option, a very same type options that's completely before term, and it implies that we don't. We can have that default, so declare pipe and you don't have to yeah.

L

And also because when we didn't have a shared pool, you have to dispose it or like fries or something that's why you had to pass it. It was like using pool you pull them, create a person now.

J

All this is advanced.

L

Feature yes in what segment sizes, except so a right pool, is such a pool that it would give you whatever you ask for if you aspirate it'll, give you eight. So when somebody calls pipe doctrine or get memory eight, because it is exactly how much data he has thread, and if we forward this code to memory pool it will give a segment of size eight, which is very location. So this is the property that sets the minimum amount of segment size we would ask for. So. If we, if you aspirate, we will still ask memory.

L

Pool for 2k is given.

F

We have one of these. We can always add new properties, as we need more options. It feels like a minimum segment size. You could pick something literally statically like forever, like you know, it knows no smaller than 256 and called day or whatever. What is it? It's, okay, you picked for them, I mean what, if, if you did that and how much of our end user is going to care about totally with this I guess is the upshot, but.

L

Until they get until until to get a lot of data or bloat, that I know is smaller. This this default is just inefficient yeah or if your workload is good, you're nice before they're, not slated, that's fine! So.

A

What's your concern because everything I would everything like if you have performance issues that will be the kind of thing you would play with right.

F

I just want to make sure that that is lot. What I was looking for. Sometimes we create parameters that we really don't expect like. You know somebody, the BCL will pick a number and realistically everyone will be happy with that number that number we could we could just not have and and if we ever found that we needed it, we would just add it like.

L

But if you really say hey.

F

I need to call my scenario, it might be big, it might be small okay. Now it belongs here and.

A

That's why I'm saying to me this is why I think it's important that we default most of this type, because I think this type most people would not pick anything. They were just passing the defaults and then from their own, given that the constructor is same pattern right spice option already, like you only fill in as much as you care, yep, so I think that's to.

F

Connect, one could argue, though, is it's not our normal pattern, where we dump everything into the constructor setters.

G

F

Wanted to be in beautiful, you get options, it's just right. I would not do it. We just what what is.

H

G

H

But you do and say, oh because they wants to share the instance between they don't want like mutations after construction. Yes,.

Q

I mean there's basically two ways right like you could have everything I'm Gators that are in like snapshot it that's. What normally do you think to do, but.

H

The snapshot they would have to make a copy- which maybe it's okay, but okay, where everything yeah.

Q

Or another thing you know like in WPF, we freeze for SSL Street a site not allow that become reuse like the same option of Rosaline. Does this it's kind of? But you need for optional.

H

F

H

It sucks about.

F

This is that it, you know once it's in there were eight or ten or fifteen, like.

H

F

I'm on over there's.

H

A problem we cannot actually, as nicely add new properties, as you said. Basically, in the future, let's say you wanted suddenly read a new construction. We have to add a.

Q

New constructor and somewhere as a self stream revamp. They went with this pattern, I believe and that's because you'd be like giving up a lot of streams right in our case, since pipe is resettable floating might be more tenable. Its.

L

Resettable, but you only reset it in one connection, you can tell more connection, that's the issue but yeah little brain.

H

Freeze my peers, which is not you, know it's not the greatest api, but in this particular case I suspect. Nobody will ever do anything but normal teeth of the house and then keep using pipelines like yeah.

Q

L

I just have internal gate to prison as bad well, this is funny.

A

Wish we would go down more the immutability realm I think it's more usable than freezers.

AB

Let's see people on the phone would ya mark the people just there Tim sorry.

AA

So I just say thank yous for your 10 years, like a builder, so you have a builder, we add all your options to it and then you build that thing and then it's immutable from there. So.

AA

L

This hypothesis is so corner making it do different, so.

H

Honestly, if it's currently placed in physics, seems like the best option.

F

Yeah no one's gonna use it mostly.

H

So I actually think that, for example, they will use it all the time.

Q

Fine I mean it's gonna, be in a shared good.

Q

A

Many DC others do. We have that use the freeze better I'm, not aware of any. Actually it's only WPF 13.

H

What do we do for options.

S

We just make them structs correct, we know usually what the VCL does is. It has mutable types and then.

A

We copy that's what we do a lot or we don't care here, eat it after that, the other parent. Let me have.

F

You just more to consider if well you just tell people don't do that right and, and you know, if they do it, they do it, and it's probably not that bad. They get what they get. But that's not like a supported scenario. Yeah. It's not the greatest yeah.

H

This constructor doesn't work that it doesn't bode well for the future, actually freeze.

K

Those wine drops the.

H

Property we had more I.

G

H

Really pissed off on that, like I know, most of our API still copy or structs no mean, and then they get copied automatically.

A

For you, it holds true for any method that takes option arguments as soon as you add one. You have to basically another overload, but you don't think it's bad because overloads.

F

Are not that bad in terms of API is yeah so, but there's no question that the usability of this starts the suck if they're I mean even now like I want it. I want to change my minimum segment. I happen like comma, comma, comma, comma, I,.

L

F

L

A nice easy option argument they're all no they're all default to the Roman, so you cannot use the only.

A

The one I think the only.

L

A

Billy for us is we have to do. We have to add another overload for the user. Nothing changes, they just add one more thing and like that's, it I mean maybe.

F

That's not so bad, okay.

H

Fine is that okay, it's okay, so the properties it can. We approve the names for the threshold yeah.

S

L

Need to figure out, but.

H

Back pressure start, but pressure equations.

L

H

One you want to be in, you want.

L

Even a maximum silence.

H

L

Hi Mike source.

K

As well to what my pressure starts by pressure ends, so Louis starts high starts.

L

Q

This is easy if we put start first now that it's not called low rate maximum.

Q

Z

Serve back pressure.

Q

Z

Q

To the size of a buffer.

Z

C

Q

Just starts at a higher value than it ends and.

H

Though we validate, you can pass this around with us. We have starts inhibit no higher than high.

B

Or start enhances its rate, what they said yeah, but pressure starts, but preference I know start must be less than or equal to and start on greater than oh so.

L

You cross such the boundary. You get the pressure, then you have to consume more than just to cross a society yeah. You were able to avoid.

E

And so video signature is what you get when you do get memory, that's just junk. The first time you get it. You get that many pipes, you.

L

Get minimum segment size.

Y

Where's I output used other than I pipe writer. Oh we're.

H

On typewriter, this feature is obvious in a pipe rack. The.

V

Reason for this.

H

Existence is it existed before in convex lab, because it's a generic interface like you can imagine, I want to implement a stringbuilder, so I implement this interface, all extension methods that can write to a pipe like, for example, extension method that writes an int would also be.

L

Yeah, it's like I want to dump by somewhere, but I. Don't I, don't care where the buffers come from. Just given the buffers and I'll give you after stuff.

H

L

Pipeline works. If the buffers are some string to their structure, works works for anything that is made. It's like a it's like this continuous variable span. Just remember: it's a sink. It's a same thing basis, so.

E

And then why is it returning.

H

Memory of Isis, yes yeah, so that one we are on the email thread, I think we already agree that we will help of one two three ten spend one memory and the reason.

D

H

Is if you in a a sink context, you need to get memory between a sink context. It's more efficient to get span. Yeah yeah! This has to be when you're racing right, yeah, yeah,.

V

Oh okay, we're not like nothing! How.

H

Does it have come I? Basically, if I implement this interface on a stringbuilder, yeah I come inside an array, I really don't want to first cause the array to memory. So I can get a span. You know I want to just return. The array is bad. I.

L

Have a problem with a bit of a bit of a problem with having both that, depending on what you've called you can write an efficient code like it'll work, fine on string builder right, go and get memory, but then get memory on our output on pipe. If you call it every time, you want to write something: it'll be slow, so the extension methods on output, if you run them on your implementation, that is optimized for returning spam, but here they would go through the memory. They would just be slow on a session methods.

L

If they are synchronous, they would use the span one, but exactly so for I output, you have to be efficient. You have to catch the span using by the buffer writer right and if you, if you give people and extension methods and I output, they would use them easy yeah. He.

Q

Just doesn't like that.

L

The extension is this, so.

Q

R

Q

L

It won't be bad, we.

Q

L

Primitive called output writer, the text output gets a span from it stores it on the stack and you can efficiently append to it without, like recreating either span our memory.

A

Madison was that what this is the same, that we have two methods? Oh yeah,.

F

Yeah I'm studying like that or no because.

E

Then everyone were connected and then you have good memory, even though you want you guess that says.

Q

N

Q

Because the extension methods would be calling its span right, you know and for like for.

N

Google bloomer.

J

Q

Builder, I output think that those extension methods are great, but what do you thing is for pipelines? Conspan is just as low as good memory, like that's all he's saying he's not saying migraines yeah.

V

There's no problem so.

P

Q

A problem with having the two methods.

V

J

Q

J

Q

L

Q

To write extension methods will cause people call extension methods and.

L

We have a primitive that optimizes, whatever your memory comes from, it gets spent only once and then it's very efficient. So the problem with the primitive is that it's a virus struct and we can ask.

H

A person that'll be a yeah, but you can wrap a string builder into bear abstract. No, yes, I don't want to do it. I have a user who doesn't care about file. F types, memorize.

L

They just want to have a string builder, then add method on string builder string builder, dot append. Why.

H

Do you want an extension.

L

H

I don't implement so I basically said the writing a need, but it's all about any transformations that write to our output. I don't want to reemployment them. Fifteen.

J

H

Writing on string builder on pipelines like we don't want to have work and virus types. They actually have this problem that they cannot inherit from anything. So if you want to have code reuse, the only way to reuse code is to have an extension method. Origin delegate, that's all they cannot. They cannot be headed. What.

L

You're, what I don't want to get is the method exception, whether to high output that we won't be using Castro, because it's low sure- and we would get that all your methods that you would have.

H

We can put wouldn't.

L

Use sure we can put them in their namespace that you'll not gonna get them. No, no I'm saying we are we as a consumer of performance. Optimized methods would not use them because they are not enough preference, especially yeah and I. Don't think it's it's good.

J

L

Would have to implement all these methods on top of output writer to each to use them no I, don't know I often try to get also that I have put.

Q

More efficiently right, oh yes, which thing you could call the extension methods it's a gotcha still, but then there's essential methods. There. Then it's.

L

Kind of what you write, I didn't consider that part yeah, but it's like how do you know how no credit to be efficient, Akashi.

A

It's something.

L

You have to do.

A

Because it sounds to me like basically is you're saying right: how are you going through memory they're.

H

Doing that so I don't know what the polymers are also and it gets I think I can explain it. Basically, the best way to write to pipelines is to use this writer right there, so they basically don't want to have any other way to write to pipelines, except for the writer, because it leads people to do the right thing right.

J

H

J

H

Be reviewing the writer next week, which operated the pipe.

K

Exile, so it's.

H

K

H

Out of it and then sticks things in so it's a fine goal. The problem is, the writer is a virus type and I just think the goal of forcing every single user of you know dotnet to use the file type to write to things it's just not Bible.

H

Alright types are super super annoying, so like if you in there, you know if using pipelines and you eat scenarios where you like- really care about Paris. It's fine I people will, you know, be okay with it. We cannot just do it for the Enbridge that that user dealing with pirate types, because.

Q

You can't embed it so the point.

H

Though right is.

Q

Like its span is only useful if it's a pirate type, because otherwise it's just fast escape memory. No, no, no.

H

I have a type it starts on the right side: yeah. If I have a method, get span, I just grabbed the Memphians.

J

Oh no, no! It's one.

H

Less method call except the next one that is missing, is ten times more expensive than the first one. So yes, it's one less method. Okay, so you.

Q

Say it ten percent of the copy that gets me.

H

Way less efficient.

Q

H

During the from array, because then.

Q

You have the pattern matching records.

H

Like rapping- and you know, an array in the span like assam did some performance. Improvements in a lot of cases is kind of like disappears and.

A

I will generally say, like I mean it seems to be the root cause of the watch band memory, which is intimately like I mean we basically ask people to say to basically choose the right one for this now, right, like that, I.

Q

For what I was trying to explain, I got.

A

Q

Eye output is such about this from what I've heard somewhere people.

L

Who don't know.

L

Have to wrap our output into something that would make get spam faster, so extension methods that are using it spend are faster yeah.

Q

That's the main complaint is to get good performance out of these extension methods. You have to take our first I output, which is operators or.

J

The right of a buffer and then.

Q

Wrap it with a puff.

J

Writer that also wants output.

Q

So they can do more efficiently because it's a biocide so.

H

We could okay I at the risk of suggesting something that I don't like. We could have two interfaces. You know like span out with your memory.

Q

So then we would write our extension methods for the span out faster and there'd be one way to get that pipeline and.

L

You can implement both.

Q

On and you can look as you want yeah well.

H

If you implement both you end up with like do you end up with yeah? No, you cannot because then advance is the answer. So.

Q

But the dress is the.

L

Q

L

Mean you can't.

Q

Get work tickets, no.

F

L

You want it from them. You want the same. Implementation of advanced implementation, wouldn't differ. You.

Q

Can make it work? It's just a little weird, we'll never be able to implement both of these methods. Yeah I can.

H

Q

Interfaces lines they do the same.

H

Q

Because we don't.

H

Depend once they cuss to the interface, we only use it as a constraint, so you don't ever implement these interfaces. Express.

Q

Either construed.

H

Q

Also, infinite not explicitly be really I'd, like is you'd, have three eliminations on the side of an and so.

H

We could add it and then you implement either this or that but I I, don't know, I think that we can lead like people who use pipelines. They will have to know a lot of stuff about right on the scope they're like stamping on some extension methods in some namespace I. Don't think that's like the biggest problem, all right. If I.

L

Mean it just follow to the for the ultimate, but we prepare the asp net position yeah, but without good memory. We are.

H

All so bad is it, but I do want to ask you one more question about the: why do you eat memory, so I understand the async problem, but we added memory because in some contexts like there's nothing else you just have the payload or the buffer and it has to be represented by memory. If you want to survive async/await in this case, why would you not survive async/await with IO output? So basically you want to before I sink away to get a span.

H

You do whatever you need to do, and if you have a you know, we don't do.

L

Which we pass it to stream dot like we read your calling writing a method. That's called copy from.

Q

String, a weight stream read a sink right like this, where you test in, like before the actual I/o operation, you pass basically.

H

Because we have api's directly on on stream to take memory well, we can.

Q

Joke it was no.

H

No, but what I was saying imagine that there was an ATI on.

Q

Stream that thinks I output 25 is it's an intense time right because there's a P is that are asynchronous to take memory, and that's what we be there. That's why now, if yeah, if we replace all the ones that took memory to take I output than perhaps.

L

Like we want to write a doctor.

Q

To what s so stream also like, if we don't get way out of memory or something, as you know, it's there like you.

H

Want to interrupt with existing ideas to take my money. That's basically it! Yes, if everything was I, don't have change stream to take I out, but.

K

So, what's the conclusion for I out with them to both.

H

K

H

You know: I output is like my money. Oh.

G

It's just giving.

Q

Emily with index like way more flexible memory, because they it's a position because.

H

There is a factory for spans and I output. If we add the method get span is if actually four spans. The only additional thing that they have is advanced, which is like an elixir mm-hmm.

S

H

Know what is it it's a it's a position you can write to. Maybe we should just implement by output.

L

Of memory on position, I have memories. What if somebody calls get memory with bigger size than it is just rose, yeah.

P

X

You don't know, see, use a lot of it.

L

Alright, anyway, it's cool it. This is all pipelines, correct, yeah, those are like red. Async methods are just running the thing and flushing the path yeah just.

J

L

Who write the first time they ever see pipe, so they can do but the writer the tracing away that and their golden yeah yeah.

S

A

Thanks guys thanks man thanks.