.Net Foundation Design Reviews, 23 Apr 2019

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From YouTube: .NET Design Review: GitHub Quick Reviews

Description

Today, we're focusing on API reviews that are blocking partners: https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aapi-ready-for-review+label%3Ablocking-partner

A

All righty, so let's do this. um It's made very funny. We actually are live. Yes, we are because I'm using a new tool that I wrote myself, make my life easier, but tools can't have bugs actually when I write them all right. So let's first go over these two, because these are the only ones that are marked as bill blocking a partner. So the first one would be the immutable one.

A

Hopefully it's pretty straightforward, so any proposed that we should expose an s ban and s memory and on a mutable raid, because it's effectively like an array- and this one does- you know- still give you read-only semantics. So you can modify that and if you really need to the other ones, you can still go to the about the API is, but we have some sort of unsaved API where you can get the underlying array. People can already do that, but it's probably not what we want.

A

In some areas, I.

B

Don't have any concerns I'm as curious. What is this blocking? Who, with what's trying to use this so.

A

I think they used to the metadata every to somewhere.

A

The whole metadata reader is gonna, be something unbeatable, and so it's the compiler right.

A

I just marked it because it's always sad when partners fought something we never get to it, because it's such a tiny thing just that 13 days ago, let's discuss Tuesday so, but it is yeah.

C

I think Andy had found some perf improvements he could make in the compiler by exposing this.

B

So one question would be as memory returns, a read-only memory which then has a triquet memory. I try get array rather, which lets you fish out. The array pretty easily but I believe that try get array is already on memory marshals. So maybe we don't care.

A

The track Adira is on memory marshes not directly on.

D

It is on memory Marshall,.

A

Oh there's our son.

E

Let me quickly see, try get array.

F

Read-Only so just they're, just some deference you say.

C

They don't like read only span prevents you from doing it unless you use unsafe code like memory marshal, which is unsafe, yeah.

G

I see so the gating factor is asked to remain read-only and tell you is the unsafe keyword and yeah.

B

Unsafe keyword or something that we've deemed equivalent like Daisy, marshal yeah.

B

But yeah as long as they try get it right, I think we put it there because we were saying well. If it's read only you know fishing out the arrays and you get something writable, so it should be on memory Marshall.

H

B

As we did that then I don't have any concerns.

H

E

Means I'm presenting one thing.

E

D

Turns out search doesn't really work so well, if you don't quite know what you're looking for.

I

I've been using it I know it's a family partial you.

A

Know that one makes sense, but the the I'm looking for I thought we had maybe not I thought we had an API two immutable that allows you to get the underlying array, but it doesn't seem like we ended up adding that type because they can find in the sources.

A

Because, if you would have done it, we would have put this in to interrupt services as well. I think the conclusion there was, if you really want to do this, it's trivial to write yourself. A little struck that does the explicit layout trick to fish out the array, and then you just do an unsafe cost effectively, but I think I made it bigger, actually does to avoid copying the array all right so yeah anyway. So I think there are no concerns, and it's just.

E

E

I also know believe the labeling of admirers.

E

A

All right, so this one Steven do you feel like you have enough context to approve that or should we wait for more details to follow.

B

Sorry, let me read it for a second.

B

Seems pretty straightforward to me: I mean. Basically, this is just saying we want to transfer from one reader to another writer, basically pipe it through no pun intended.

B

It seems fine to me. Is there any discussion? Well.

A

The only question was from Ben Adams whether it should also take a buffer size. But, although didn't seem to like that, I could.

B

Just call down second gee, sorry.

A

And I'm, looking at my own screen as well, because I can't scold in my own, that was the only one.

B

But yeah I would call these in the future at an overload that took about four sighs I'll be a little weird with the virtuals but um I. It seems fine to me right.

E

E

E

E

E

We so that one is done.

E

Really one one cursor for both monitor harmonica, actually more than me so now.

A

Let's just sort those ones basically oldest to newest I- think it's already done and then, let's just walk top to bottom, to see what anything stands out.

E

Even you care about any of those.

B

Nothing to make a jump. The list.

F

D

D

D

A

But is this actually the play.

B

You this was marked as safety I ready for review. Is there a actual proposed date guide, yeah.

E

I was about to say the same thing like I can't even find the time that they're talking about I think.

C

If you scroll down.

F

Got the actual system end table service architecture and real money? Oh, they want to extend it. Yeah.

E

Someone I picked up from that. You should so surprised. We didn't have those the.

A

Baby have an arm on 64x64 and Xavier I thought.

C

We also had a lot more values in here, or maybe that's in the seaside and their editor, browsable, never or maybe I'm thinking. Another I think.

A

You're thinking of the the Old West, maybe.

C

Environment, vitamin.

A

You know thank you.

C

A

That one is broken as hell right under near the new west platform that basically only has four entries right now. Yeah.

C

System dot platform ID was what I was thinking of platform.

A

Idea that something like that, yeah and those ones are I mean Nokia, s60, right yeah for sure.

G

So, what's this what's the purpose of this Union? Obviously, why is it under Interop services, because.

C

That's where, where we have runtime information in one part of runtime yeah, so you would do runtime information. Dot, is OS platform law and is architecture.

G

Yes, we can bring this edge against Atlanta.

A

I mean he was a bit of a strategy but yards yeah, I guess it's even.

G

In full flavor, while we pack that's because we absorbed one time, information, internet standard- oh that's, nice or that program- see that's.

A

Yeah I guess I mean the usual thing with flat phone checks. Is you want to write some code write the checks for that and then you know peen books, one or the other or.

C

Yeah, it's just exposed via the stat runtime information, OS architecture.

A

Is this an enum? Actually, it isn't yeah that must call them mistake.

C

Sure that's a mistake, at least from the perspective. It's no different than I guess we didn't do that with ours platform, but.

A

We deliberately made it the string bear seen him, so you can, like each platform, can add entries and then you can merge them later like this problem. Here is it's one. Everyone adds a video you're yeah. We.

G

Need to know what values they.

A

Chose all right so, if monads in mind from he had one entry and we didn't coordinate that change then well, what is it? What is number four now yeah.

A

Yeah I mean I, don't have any concerns today, but also, as I said, I have my care level. It's almost a zero for the vapir. Thank.

F

A

Reflection, processor, article.

A

Yeah, this one I think is more for the metadata Dumbledore name right, right and I. Think that totally only that's the referenda metadata changes.

C

Although there's there's complaints that still exist on us burning it in and saying we should look it up at runtime, so we avoid some issues.

E

Yeah I guess that's also fair, but.

C

But like I think I'm fine with exposing them webassembly is probably the one that's most interesting. Moving forward. You've.

A

Ever said, is the only one that graham I'm not sure that that is actually the right thing to do.

A

My head on the TFM it's like: if we only ever have one implementation, then that's great.

C

A

C

Of the formal standard well.

A

It's I guess that's also a good question, but again step assembly in this context would just be the code you're generating right, in which case that's what I find T of them. It's a bit more complicated because it's like a board. We have multiple frameworks that are all you run in depth assembly in that case today, I think.

C

This is from the perspective of you, are running in a web assembly, machine yeah, you're, basically holding.

A

Do whatever they instruct.

C

And and it's independent of the TFM, so it's saying that it would just be like if we expose CIL here we would say: you've got mono CIL yeah, our CIO you're, saying I'm running in a CIL of virtual machines, yeah.

G

What happens when they put in a new they decide? They need to encode more information in there in the web assembly such that they might be more than I. Imagine.

C

That's no different than things exciting. Yeah.

A

Yeah then adding.

C

S like SSE instruction set, so we think it's that it's that core, that they would all would.

G

Always be additive, it would never be something where it's completely mutually exclusive. Yeah.

C

Or or if it was a clear split onto it, then we would probably have a we would want to differentiate on the name there, yeah yeah, just like arm 32 and arm 64. Unlike x86 next 64, it's not a logical extension. It's a rewrite from the architecture perspective, so.

G

If we, if we burn, if that happens in the future, and we burned the good name what're, is there any precedent here for other tool chains that have more established adoption of web assembly like what are the.

H

What is the loading zone would as well as.

C

G

H

The I don't know: that's.

C

Like an old machine that colleges you.

A

Like I wouldn't want to add any event of architecture in year because of it was insane never-ending, said yeah, but clever suddenly makes sense, I guess PowerPC.

C

Makes sense that so I think that one's because mono supported compiling for Xbox three-sixty if.

A

This a real device that people actually use that has it architecture I'm fine with that, if it's just some random thing that mono, head and I would say well, a mono had a bunch of random stuff. So you don't want to support. All of that. I suppose constantly is very timely, considering architecture!

A

Well, it kind of is right. It's an AI is a right in the sense that you have real instructions that they have up quotes and that you can send to the browser to execute right.

C

The ds3 90x yeah it looks to be an IBM mainframe from the 60 that.

A

Sounds very appealing.

F

Yeah I thought.

G

F

By Neil Ferguson students.

C

Oh, it's the it's got newer stuff, it's the IBM Z in frames.

C

G

You should go see what more, what did Manik? What didn't? What values did mano give and then, which probably said, set some rules moving forward for ranges that or.

C

Or potentially,.

C

Expose a new API that operates from the perspective of returning. We could yeah.

C

Yeah so so today we've got art, we've got OS platform, but architecture. So we could conceivably expose OS architecture, I, guess that doesn't make sense they're. The reason we did this because we also have process architecture yeah. There was a there.

G

Was a there was a very interesting distinction because of the the fact that you might be running sick 32-bit owns like running in Wow yeah.

C

Or you might be running x86 on arm weird emulation layer.

C

C

C

And the webassembly stuff that the spec actually covers, like an entire BM of like here's, how the types are and how stack works and everything else. So conceptually it's an architecture like.

I

Mother people ask this question and we are repeated, but if somebody says give our hero, the factor is active in webassembly. What is absolutely that information.

G

You load your webassembly native, otherwise.

I

G

Maybe you load your say: v6 I should be allowed or you grow.

C

It's really just for life, determining whether you can do something architecture-specific, okay,.

C

Like I webassembly I, don't have a specific example, but like arm versus x86 versus executing for lets, you know which plugins or native components that you want to depend on and load. Okay.

C

And it can also tell you like which P invokes tikal, because on like windows, for example, there's some 32-bit functions which are actually macros rather than functions, whereas their actual functions on 64-bit. How to unpack astruc.

F

G

The conflation incompletion brand yeah.

A

We get a comment here from in the chat from Jerome. He says: webassembly has more similarity of donek words: the runtime than x86 the cpu architecture, because their runtime ties to bit assembly internal calls. So.

G

The way it was modeled before is it was both. So that's right, I think was both both of runtimes and in our context, it's.

A

The way I think about this, maybe that's the wrong way but like if you look at architecture, I would say it just indicates effectively what what CPU we are running on right. Logically. Well, if you're running in at the end, then it's whatever the VM is using right and then I would say that if we have multiple one time so right now, really we have the mono or one time for assembly that uses I forgot what stuff they they figure. So many mothers take sea bass, one time the day that they ported I.

A

Think and then that's what interpreting the L at runtime. If we build a different thing, let's say something based off of you know, warranty or something. Then it would just have different TMS for that image. So yeah, just you know, just if you want to have differences between implementation implementation, be it's not specific that into whatever that specific. Whatever the bet specific checks, you would have to do.

A

So, in that sense, I would not care that there are different runtime implementations. I mean it's the same. What we have today with that's a real jet, whether they had real jet that did x86, and then we had whatever they of the old JIT was called right. And if you were woken by this, you just do a DMM check.

A

Right so, like I added, my two cents of anybody disagrees with that comment. I can edit it now, otherwise, I just marked it as needs some work.

A

Just bump in the back.

A

All righty, then this is.

E

E

You know that one is a bit one, be.

E

A

This is good of you. Does it even exist, actually does.

B

Exists unlike sorted saturd, yeah,.

A

It's not something.

B

A

Yeah sorted said it gives you back a new sort. It said between two values: never listening.

E

I

I

Okay, sorted dictionary, so what does that.

A

Do you know what sort of dictionary versus evil, but.

B

A long time stomach to the implementation.

A

I forgot we had there's a few API, isn't a hermit that are super weird and much of its, and we have one API, but maybe that's one of the specialized ones. That is effectively an array and the list I, don't think it's this one. Yeah I think this one is just the tilde sorting by key in your index bike here. There's no index.

F

Sword addiction know what it said is the one.

A

No one saying that was one API that we have in specialized that basically implements both dictionary and lists. You can index fly by position and by key, but I. Think that's not this one here. This one literally, is just a dictionary yeah. It doesn't implement at least.

A

Yeah I, suppose and low-carb is effectively a binary search.

A

Like that yeah that API would not be bad I, don't know why you would use this API to begin this, but slowly bethought is used to manage onset and it's used by 0.6%.

F

It's worthless, this is read-only.

A

Yeah, yes, I think it's Africa. What is that get some super specialized.

A

Apparently it's slightly higher 3% and you just look at first party but yeah I, don't I, don't know I, don't have any objection to that. If somebody wants to write the code for that, their.

G

Consistency question: would we apply this.

A

So I'm not entirely sure about guarantee sortedset makes I believe it was either Sorenson or hash said we're I mean normally. Our guarantees for collections is that reading with multiple readers is fine, and as soon as you have one writer like United.

G

Parallelism I'm in parallelism. Oh you.

A

Mean like consistency or question.

A

Yeah I mean they today the method only exists on sortedset.

B

Where does the sort and sort of dictionary actually impact? Is it just without this method, as it's just the numerating.

G

I believe it's the order in these order militia key value pairs and ordering Lynch values ease.

G

E

So in surah dictionary, so what is he proposing is basic like here.

E

A

Honestly, Raval usage is also hard to say, like this sorted steadily, divided returned, or should you just get a sorted dictionary.

B

It's in copiers I, assumed I'd assumed you should get a sort of dictionary, but.

I

Then you're like that, whose art in the enumeration anyway, the whole point of this maybe I, was to say avoid the enumeration.

B

Why why would it result in it? Doesn't it sort of dictionary, rapidset.

C

No, it wraps two collections, a key collection and about you collection and then a tree set of key value pairs.

B

B

Well, what would be in what would the implementation that returns a sorted set? That would avoid a copy that returning sort of dictionary would do that couldn't avoid a copy.

I

Yeah I'm not too sure.

A

Let's it seems super weird yeah.

C

So so so the tree set internally is just a sorted set, so a dictionary contains a tree set which is which inherits some sort of set.

A

I see so it basically has that data, so it would be trivial for this to well. Would it be because it.

C

I think it's the question of: do I have to create a new class, or could I potentially no I think you'd have to either way because you'd have to copy the sorted set and change the data it's pointing to so it's going to create a new allocation either way that would I.

B

Mean it wasn't given, it seems weird that this would change sort of the overall type that was being used like sorted set. Give you between returns of sorted, set sort of dictionary gives you between return of sort of dictionary. It's the same argument that we have with ranging and slices.

E

B

Like that, slicing and array gives you back an array slicing Elizabeth.

B

Unless there's a huge performance to be made and I don't even know what situations this API would be used, so it's hard created right, I,.

I

B

I

Last guy was on performance, I would have assumed it was performance related, but I guess you.

C

Wouldn't have to copy and modify the key collection of value collection if you return a sorted set.

J

Why not because the sortedset doesn't contain those.

B

These are lazily allocated right.

A

I mean view implies to me that after I added something to the collection, the the return thing reflects that right.

B

The key the keys and values are only allocated when you actually go to access the keys and values collection. If you don't do that, you're not going to pay for it. If you do do that, while you wanted the dictionary yeah.

C

That makes sense.

C

Yeah then I don't see any particular reason why we shouldn't return sort of dictionary.

A

I don't quite understand it's like somebody making voice I'm sure learned what some bad on this. If this is really about enumeration, why would we return the sword? It said to begin with, I give the only thing you do with a numerator, then we, it would be much much easier for us to just return an ienumerable that basically stores the begin at the end key and reference to whatever 3 structure we have so we can always emulate that without doing crazy domestics. My.

B

Assumption and I've basically never used these types in my own code, but my assumption is you want to kind of get the subset between the two values and then be able to still do a 1 operations like looking things up, in addition to a numerator right.

A

Yeah, but you still have the reference of the original dictionary I. Guess you don't want to pay the price of a lookup right, I! Guess it's fair.

A

Yeah but then it makes even less sense, then honestly, then I would probably return an ienumerable of key value pair or something right, because then you can just get the value of two, but chiefly and implementation is trivial for us. Well,.

G

And I dictionary has I&E value pair, doesn't it but they don't have a way to get a subset.

J

Of the numerator so.

B

G

Think the idea was that you, wouldn't, if you, if you gotten a numerator you'd, have to call skip which right and spend the cost inefficiently of iterating for things he didn't need either a through the ideas. Since it's sorted, you could do a login operation to find the balance and then given a numerator that just thought it aerates over those bounds.

C

Yeah, but couldn't you expose that via a getenumerator of yeah, different or special case skip four sort of dictionary to know that it can start it? So.

B

I'm just looking.

C

At source view.

J

Where we consume guessing between.

B

So I like there's an operation, is the set a subset of another one and to do that, it calls get a view between with min and Max, and then it loops over every item and calls contains on the subset on the gun, the view between. So it's actually getting kind of the constrained thing and then calling the contains on it. For each item, I see.

A

So they actually exploit the fact that it still is said yeah.

B

A

I can presumably it's.

B

Doing that, even with the cost involved that give you between, because if it's a small enough range that contains lookups, would be much faster, I guess yeah.

A

But that see, that's like sorted said here makes no sense, because you keno is the key and the value.

A

Which now also begs the question: what happens when you begin to view and now you're going to the dictionary and you just change the value, can I find it's dying? That's what it said now.

E

Which kind of defeats the purpose.

A

Yeah so I think to summarize I think we are seem to be generally not against adding an API like that. It's just that this shape that is outlined here since problematic and.

B

I, don't think it should be sort of said. If anything, it should be sorted dictionary unless.

J

B

Don't believe, there's any use in being able to index into it in which case ienumerable, but just for, if we were going to add an API for parity, it would seem to make sense to be the same time.

B

Be great to see examples of how this is actually gonna be used. Yeah.

E

I

I

Do we want to discuss the opener shoe around mutability there, whether it's or service or a dictionary user, came and add a key value pairs to.

I

A

And I wonder I mean the other one has the same problem: I don't know about the behavior is yeah I could imagine if those embedded operation exception, I know what I mean literally view or the other one then, or does it actually insert to the parent like I, don't know what happens? Research.

G

A

That's outside the bounds.

G

Original thing exactly right right: no, your change.

H

G

Just put it there and then you and your money back and you don't see it all right and you have some invalid view.

G

I know you know how you'd implement back unless it's an immutable, but.

I

Soi bikini would happen to know, there's a view to a block.

B

Although I mean, if you're, if you're allowed to add into an arbitrary sorter, it said it that kind of doesn't matter whether you're, adding into the view or living that it was a few on top of, but just to.

G

B

G

It wasn't that happy, imagine what it would do, I guess which.

B

Is that it could have apparent, but.

G

Then now, how do you represent the sorted set with bounds so that it has the addition, but doesn't have the I? Don't.

B

Think it stores the bounds not like it's a it's, not that it's a view that can only contain the values you know one through three. It just contains the values that were one through three at the time you said get any of you so.

G

Then, if you add something to it and it's outside those bounds, yep what happens when you enumerate the set again, it includes a new value. And how do you do that? If you had a view which is implies of reference, it's.

B

Added to the original.

C

Right, so, if you just track the the starting key in the end, key will.

G

C

Enumerate from so, we have a different impression of what what.

G

You means I, think I think.

B

The problem here, I think, is the name view I, don't think it's actually like create of view that represent the invitation. I didn't think it was only surfaced. The values from the original between.

B

But I don't know what it means with the look I.

C

Normally consider view to be similar to what span is, which is you have a reference to the interior data and the end of the data, and you will enumerate through it. So if you keep track of one through three and someone inserts another, two now you're going to have an additional value that you numerate yeah. But if you insert a zero, then what is? How do you represent that without changing your bounds? Stay in well, I mean you're, still tracking the starting key is one, and the ending key is three zero, presumably sorted before one.

C

So you still start by enumerate in from one on. You see one degree, and you wouldn't see the thing you have it yeah, but you were tracking one through three, not zero through three, but then.

G

Now you have something where it's like I, add I, have a collection I can add successfully to that collection. But now, when I try and get the thing out that I just added it's gone, adding.

I

To the collection there, all right, if.

C

You were, if you were tracking the original index of start rather than saying I need to start wherever this index is yeah.

G

And then, if you throw away that late, if you throw away that idea- and you say okay, can it take your cake? Take some sort of copy of it creates an oh, like an N sized election to make a copy and have its own independent references. Then you kind of throw away whatever efficiently meant before, because now you haven't like ain't unless it's slightly in general, I think getting a view between is probably not like the efficiency you get. There is maybe you're sort of saving I, don't I mean again, maybe yeah.

C

You could have it so that you could do it basically, the same we do we do with struct enumerators, which is keep track of the underlying data, keep track of the current index. In this case it would be start as well and then keep track of the version, and if the versions get out of sync, then you know you have to restart from zero to find where that index starts. Otherwise you can start from the previous start in that. Yes, so.

B

So I just try to sort of set the the sort of set returned from getting to you between appears to keep track of the values that you passed and if you try and add to the you set outside of that range, it throws an exception as.

A

It doesn't allow the two behaviors that could imagine was basically easier it. Basically, it shifts the bounds or it basically just inserts to the parent and then just on subsequent enumeration doesn't have it. But yes, the one also seems fine, but it does insert to the parent right.

B

It doesn't search the parent.

A

And then, if you numerate, while you are adding, then that also globally blows up for the same reason that it would on the piano.

B

Page, they share the same data structure, so they're.

E

E

Appear because they.

E

B

Terri's, this is mark just three Oh. How did we determine what's in three Oh versus not I, think.

A

That's basic: just people figured out that everything is not in video. We don't look at.

C

You have to ask the area owner.

C

E

All right, you.

E

You alright, let me work so here's what I've written a bully with titles.

E

E

All right, everybody were you with that.

E

E

I doing before arguments yeah I'd already looked at that seems reasonable, I. Don't know why we didn't do that.

C

What's our standard number that we have up.

A

C

A

Path dog combined combined is four okay, I would just mirror that I mean I, don't know what we have a standard I mean we have often I have three. Sometimes we have more than three.

C

Yeah, it looks like string. Dot format, for example, has three and then switches yeah, the.

A

Console.Writeline I.

E

Think it more than that yeah, which.

A

Kind of makes sense that, because it depends on the scenario, but I get string for my thing, you don't really pause them that many various, but how joining I can only see you when it's measurement six things together. Yeah Colin.

C

Probably finds it at least from a architecture perspective generally, those will still be passed and registered since it's a static class.

B

Now we're very inconsistent even on the overloads of the same message like concat has don't reload that takes string, 4, 2, 3, & 4, but only over those to take object for our site for 1 2 3 & 4, but only over those to take objects for 1 2, & 3.

A

I guess we Johnny didn't care so much because logically, they all like n right so right.

B

We have params fallbacks for them. We care from a perfect perspective. I guess we.

A

Have a join that takes per there's, no parents for join right is there for it, for it, we'd only spend up. Try no.

B

A

B

Always let me not for spans a general cuz. We can't put those in range so.

I

What's the we don't even have one for any, it just has to get bad to join and God bad during fun. The next on this we have.

C

A brand overload as well, but.

A

We can't did the Polar Express no.

C

A

Don't even have one for.

C

String, we don't.

E

Have us we know, we.

A

Don't have path.

C

That join Fram string array.

A

Okay, that seems dumb. You should probably do that.

A

But what forgoing the spans, then you just yeah you glow occasionally.

C

You know join again joy, so yeah you do join blah, blah, blah or I guess you're gonna have an allocation, maybe.

A

This has an intermediate lady, just oh.

C

A

B

Gonna have allocation regardless either you call you know past 5.2 string or you call shoestring on each of them or you do what Tanner and awesome for saying it says you call joy, not all you know on subsets and you get a string resulting from that and then you pass it as one of your.

C

Arms right we've got pride joint which, which returns a bool and takes a span as the destination, so you're able to allocate a sufficiently large enough span within a void allocation. If you need to.

E

E

C

That's only for span, we don't have one for string, since it doesn't matter. Okay,.

I

And one of the questions around this issue is also add, because you're adding tribe, join before I know, you have tried joined with three, but it only pushed back was the future of crack is more complicated and.

A

B

Being asked for because people have a need or because it's perceived gap without well.

A

I think the will the join one.

A

It's a particular example that he is given here. He basically wants to slice as opposed to substring, and so that means he's basic calling the span overlord, but he doesn't want to deal with the tripod.

A

But I would also say that you know he's using for now. If you use this, five in the same argument holds only.

I

Differences over Steve gap.

A

I

Don't combine hands for yeah just join well.

A

History is not just the gap right, it says, like he mixes strings and spans right and so like he just doesn't. He just want to use him in his third argument. He just slices off a few characters, which no means this whole thing basically chooses to expand, overloads and now, when he had so forth, it stopped working.

A

No, he has to go down this twice Pam but, like he's not really a additional span user in the sense that he is managing buffers himself right, but I guess like yeah, he scooted away might I mean unless he had like 12 arguments. So there's like somebody will find example will fly right and I. Think at this point it's more about like okay, we should lose to be consistent, I guess of ourselves.

A

In that sense, I think it would make sense to have a join that takes or spans yeah I have no idea what the implementation is, because we can't do span or span I. Suppose it's you can't really centralized. You have like three different implementations. We.

E

I

Not cheap, just as propose the one that is proposed, accepted and not half crying I would say.

A

Or even that one is, somebody have to light the coat like you can just dispatch to their master. One.

C

I mean you: could you could implement it internally as a helper that just does join join sure, but but that value.

I

Yeah, that's like it I think.

C

Ignoring the read-only span, one for a moment, if we're going to add anything here, we should probably add join string array, Braham stringray, that way, at least for the allocating path. People have a something that works. I mean.

B

That we could do that. The downside is the c-sharp team is already considering params. We only span right, at which point we would have wanted that instead, presumably.

J

B

Add that one too, but then pretty much, no one would end up using the string or anyone.

I

Now before that, until there's a a sport and we get the fan base, perhaps.

A

Yeah, the I would argue the to me. I would separate these because we don't know what the timeline is for the other one and the other problem is that in practice we already have a ton of parents in the framework right. So like that's what I mean? If we talk about legacy api's, we have a ton of legacy API, so one more would not make a difference, but at least until you get the feature and let's say you're, maybe user I mean? Can you use the param to take the span?

A

I don't know so we might end up adding the string but anyway, actually so in that case, I would just say: let's just do the param one and then the other one because be in in practice. We won't be able to use, join and not combine right because join is the better version of stuff of combine well.

C

And if we eventually get something like value array, which has been talked about a few times, then you have the ability to have params of read-only span array. Read-Only span value array, conceptually what.

A

Is the vigor it's.

C

An array that non heap allocated and isn't that a spent? No, not quite it's about it's a value array which is different from a span. It's no view because it's basically it's basically just a struct, and so you can store it in reference types and things like that see.

A

You Lawrence, he sure, because the phone people slots are too confusing. I may have to go back to see past personnel because maybe it's actually.

C

Well, she was passed. Funny is finally forcing sign types to be two's complement so.

A

Nice, let's undefined behavior I mean okay, so for this one here do we have any concerns of this bubble? Shape I would just add the perms one and then that's it.

A

He commented on this. He basically just said the general idea was the youth tried joining I. Think when he saying is fine with four yeah, just yeah seems consistent.

A

What's the shape of the perms wonton combined.

A

We just have the Julian string ray bram scenery, that's it's an eagle to call it without any arguments.

A

C

And we say if pads is no throw argument, exception.

A

That's funny we fix this by basically having a first argument and then make the parents on the second but yeah. That's I,.

E

Don't care actually but.

C

Isn't the default for prams an empty array, not no nope.

A

C

You you have milk AIDS, it's empty array and it returns an empty string by default. If you pass and no arguments yep frames, this empty array by default- oh I,.

A

Think would I think I. Remember know the I think the compiler changed the code trend, I think they basically and they basic pasta, narrator empty I, think out of way. Then we did a rate of empty I, think they changed the codes and for parents that would.

C

Be a breaking change for.

A

I think they said over because it's always it was always legal for the receiver. We were to get now empty. You can explicitly still personal. So it's just said seem more logical. Then.

C

Well, so if we do frames, then path join empty will presumably return empty string. Just like combined yeah.

I

The ad, with the parameter name, is buns.

C

Probably know if we don't use it spring builder, we use made yeah string, dot, Korea stuff.

E

And then we type this one in.

E

A

You expected to survive.

A

A

A

A

E

Alright, let me just mark this as.

A

All right so now, let's talk about the other favorite topic should I present something like what's the issue that you have you.

G

A

G

A

Do have a different room for that. It's a good point. Actually, yes,.

A

It means that the stream twice, but here things anyway, alright, then, let's just shut down this one and then I see you later in a few minutes in the other room.

B

G

A there's, an API review issue that I open.