.Net Foundation Design Reviews, 5 Dec 2017

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From YouTube: .NET Design Reviews: GitHub Triage

Description

00:-06:-16 - Rejected: Regex should have a static TryParse() method https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/25303#issuecomment-349394486
00:15:44 - Needs Work: Allow for ArrayPool(T) to create buffers with a different minimum length https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/12644#issuecomment-349398101
00:28:22 - Approved: Add Dictionary(TKey, TValue).Capacity to let you resize map after created https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/24445#issuecomment-349406685
00:56:21 - Needs Work: ReadOnlySpan(T).DangerousGetPinnableReference should return a readonly reference https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/23881#issuecomment-349408257
01:02:30 - Approved: Change OwnedMemory Pin to take an optional integer offset https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/25229
01:04:43 - Approved: Span extension method to slice off of a string instance https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/24072#issuecomment-349412729
01:17:30 - Approved: MemoryExtensions.SequenceCompare https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/16878#issuecomment-349414287
01:19:59 - Rejected: String should implement IReadOnlyList(char) https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/14336#issuecomment-349415239
01:26:48 - Approved: Add SpanExtensions.AsVector https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/24343#issuecomment-349418624
01:38:08 - Approved: Expose RuntimeWrappedException constructor https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/24946

A

A good Chilean early.

B

C

Company meeting.

B

D

All right, I believe my life alrighty, so I guess you stirred with about next one.

E

Victory wonder quantity.

F

Yeah yeah every bar with water in it right yeah. The issue is about adding two methods which either validates a given pattern with a given vegas option generation or create rags object in a tri-five pattern, style.

F

They should current list that you can't create a raggies object, without catching exceptions for invalid patterns.

G

Where are you reading the regex string from that? It might be an invalid pattern, meaning ourselves in.

F

The code you mean.

G

Yes in the Reg expositor yeah, but I mean, if it generally reg X's, tend to be static, literals in the code, so like what? What would the behavior be? If someone passes a bad static literal to the tryparse method, like it rate, returns false, but what's the developer going to do because a developer's, a one who put the bad constant there to begin with?

G

It's not something you're going in a tight loop, we're doing sort of extra validation. Well generally, when you have a tryparse method generally, that means you are reading it from input where you don't know where the input came from, but the regex class here's my security hat, going back on the regex class in particular- is not meant for untrusted input. So where did the input come from that it might be invalid, yeah.

F

The issue they discussed- that's an area, especially a if you, for example, stole away X patterns in your database somewhere yeah do something with that which gets.

G

Inserted by I use this I don't know, but at that point your application is vulnerable to dos later seriously like if we're what's the scenario where you're reading a regex where the regex is trustworthy but may be invalid there. Actually, there was someone replying with that. I asked except the same question.

E

Or not about trust for students, but if you scroll down at the bottom, I have ops in the middle were stored in databases, XML files, config file, sections services like Friday example. Ish thing is like.

H

Company, instead, what would you do yeah hit? One of these fails: you're, gonna, yeah, absolutely yeah. She got put out a fallback to go to, or so.

F

So I guess you could argue for from one of those ApS for the meditate API like having a validate API seems like it's goodness and without without.

G

Try with our own errors but but I'm, just trying to think of the scenario where this would actually kind of handy.

I

And also I would try pairing this for performance, yeah and I would argue, you're not going to be creating tonight pattern. This is already sold like metrics is so slow that I don't think it matters. What's.

D

Not the red jackets, our point like there you're not evading the reject, but how do you valuating the rednecks you're just.

J

Right course, you are I'm. Gonna, pull your you're processing the rhetorics itself, rather than more high.

D

J

You would but like it's, not it's not that I like it's.

D

It's try party are not actually parsing the.

K

Input you're parsing the regex itself. It's not about the input right. It's just about the patterns, no enter options together. That's.

F

H

What you're parsing regex? Yes.

D

But that's not there's nowhere near as expensive as a beta versions.

H

Does build up a pretty decent cash machine behind you seem so so.

D

The cost the start I draw and I'm just pointing out that there's a difference between budgets is slow, but when we say projects is low, we redeeming evaluation of the projects, not the not the parsing of the regex pattern itself. Also.

I

Like I'm, not I mean the validate, without, as we guys we just discussed, is you know not so bad, but like it returns a boolean, it would have to be discarded. You know, in the exception it can tell you like at this location string. There was some, you know, syntax error or something it kind of kind of can actually help you validate is like you know, past validate and it returns false like who they do now now I actually called the non validate method, so it can give me some more information.

D

Well, I think I think this an example for this API is useful, is imagine an IDE right, so you would like to have a scenario where you know we ever was an analyzer that is able to already even than another, maybe even the vs integration, where basically, we detect literals that are passed to the regex api. So we know this is the regex pattern. Anything can do syntax, highlighting and other things of it. We can also sprinkle it with invalid right. You can always scroll the entire pattern. You can't really.

D

You need much more than that parser to be able to know I agree with that. I can I do perfect. Well, you would actually return something that actually gives you more details about their projects. So you can actually say arrow are correct, position 15 right, then you can actually screw that that part of it, but if you really want to do it like properly like look at what their prints has done like a temp when you just want to have code completion at that point, you effectively implement what we have here like you're.

D

F

H

D

Have actually yeah the.

F

Thing is why why we designed API like that is that the demand was to have a validation function, which which doesn't throw errors and does not come with all the burden of from exceptions in. But why.

H

That's generally only an interesting kitchen area if you're worried about doing in a sort of tight loop or performance right, yeah.

D

Also, like I mean, let's talk like this: a testimo just work, your cost standpoint right like like getting the API is themselves cheap, actually having them. Api like having these AP is not throw exception under the covers, probably fairly expensive, because we throw them right now, that's an ROI where you have to actually go through our engine and say you know. Until of this return, these other things and bubble it up essentially, and let that seems like something where well is it worth it I get mean if there's an I/o isn't.

J

D

To begin with,.

F

Do we have other cases where we need to validate something and either return true or false, where we.

I

We have try powers, but usually it's for things that are cones on user input in 30 type loops, yeah I mean try us because then you know.

G

Performance can be exeat for specifically it's for primitive types like into daytime and so on, and regex is not really a primitive type. It's a constructor type.

I

Because otherwise, like you know, we would be designing a framework like an alternative set of API. Is that don't throw exceptions which it never stops?.

D

Well, the bantha is an API think it's reasonable to say about checks. It will be expensive feature but I think it's a reasonable feature to say. Regex would look more similar to wasn't in the sense where you have a I, don't know, compile method that returns. You a compilation, results information, so it has arrows.

G

It has the actual a is T or whatever.

D

You want to add you want to do with that right.

G

You know you're admitting that regex is a special case, so because it's doing compilation under the covers right or wrong, they may be not proper compilation, but it is. It is something that is intended to be parsed as if it were a language. Why.

D

Would say it's definitely a language like it's just a simple one, but yeah it's effectively instructions you want to you.

A

Want to execute only on the other, we.

F

Could have caused just return, a vague explanation result, which is the structure which reps your message into a shelter. It.

H

Even doing that, you it's going to require quite a lot of work in the engine to actually be able to get all that data out properly yeah. It's awesome.

F

D

One doesn't seem like it's a very but.

F

You know I see a scenario for validating patterns so.

D

Like that, one I would agree, I mean I would say like I said, like ID is prime example: I mean like the defining files. Dialog would clearly benefit from you know more regex awareness and next griggles and validation, but the question is I. Don't think that feature gets us closer to that like what would get us closer to. That is more exposing more data, in the exception, for example, or you know, and that that's done I think also needs more design and then also the question is well.

D

We have a ton of cost to do that.

G

Do we even know today, if the regex class tells you worth the rhetorics class, even those terally, where the error is because I know that a lot of our parsers, including the ones that I've written and it.

F

G

Do bulk validation and all they really know is that somewhere in this chunk of text, there was bad data, but it doesn't really bother drilling into where it was because well I'm just going to throw anyway. So why bother giving like Anantha delia so.

F

Yeah, it shows it always shows argument, exceptions, I, think it exactly tells you what has happened. So there are a lot of different cases, but for like 50 different arguments, exceptions, yeah, I, don't.

L

F

L

Exception, it'll just give you all the freaking data in the text, which is amazing so like that, if.

H

I, remember correctly, we have another Hooper issue, or at least talked about inverse times about rewriting rejection itself. That will have to be folded into all this stuff to be folded into that. If we, it.

D

Seems it's more useful to like crafted new exception time like I, don't know reg X validation, exception or something that exposes that information in the strongly typed fashion. So you can actually do something meaningful there with the positions, and you know the error codes or whatever and I mean at.

L

Least, that is, you know, line or.

D

Like I, don't know yes that or something the input, and so that will be like I think significantly more useful. It would be correctly without alone, in the sister products.

M

D

Basically, like what happens in be thrown exception, right I mean we cannot change the exception. We threw a probably, but only on an argument- exception.

L

It's also better be really exciting.

D

I

L

Hair from Rd up setup, just going what oh boy yeah, we could Oh God shower now by the other. Would we.

F

Haven't yet decided if we want to rewrite the regs engine completely and replace it with in placing a new namespace right or put it above, the existing one. So it might still come is a concern for the existing API set of brackets.

H

N

It sounds like.

H

We're family right that we don't see a lot of Pat. You should redistribute it, not. Okay, we're attaching view value born after yep. Yes,.

D

I think that's reasonable. Thanks.

L

D

Had to close it went to thing we can agreeing that this is not as good or very useful idea. We.

H

Do make a new projection? We can think about this from the get-go figure out how to format through properly yeah.

D

I think move will be useful for the new matrix engine like to design it for diagnostic purposes, from the get-go like I, think that would be venue and having a regex analyzer involves them. That would give you more details.

D

The other thing that deference is done, which I really like was they have this thing called the regex I, don't evaluator or something where you can invoke a dialog right from the from the from the point where you offer them to actually test it out on like tests they like to have a UI effect with it that does it and I think all these things benefit a little bit more when we will expose more data.

A

F

How do you currently know when you do a into I pass? Why didn't pass successfully? The interesting part format is only one condition: okay, bad example, but different examples like you, I dot to try pass and I'm, not sure. If that existed, does it.

O

Mean value I, you are oh you.

F

Are right, you.

O

Know my heart's: will you sit on a time that right parts would probably be much company I? Think.

G

You're right, I'll try personal interesting. We can look it up using.

F

Yeah date, time try past returns a boolean, so you don't get any information both happen to it. Okay,.

H

For date time we generally want people to use parse exact, which is they specify the format, and then it will be cleared whether or not it's matching that bottom. So.

G

Your does not have a tryparse.

G

Actually, as it does, let's call try create instead of tryparse.

H

Probably the largest one we have this perspective is XML XML, parsing modules, and it does I pack some exceptions. It shows it is in try that there's a perception that it does have wine. It calm. My number information from Beijing and others.

F

Accept a lot of.

H

Exceptions have sweat in XML there's. There are a lot of exceptions, but I think the primary one from your parsing is there's an XML exception across something on this line is sufficient. It's an XML specific exception.

A

And I think this one is.

K

Done all right: what's the next one, hero team gets from one, we have to simple on so.

E

Let's do them, oh, you know, he goes.

E

Is array cool, twelve, six, four, four! That's just like you know ordering of arguments deep at the bottom, like tweak to previous a to low. You go to the bottom. Please go. We already approve this and we switched it back.

E

This is believed we approve it. Yes, we did.

N

There was discussion, revolved which ordered arguments should be.

D

And don't think it was I'm, not I. Wasn't sure that we decided that we want this ordering.

E

My dad flipped it Scoob just I, have one more discussion about it. So I hope you can shut it off the side. Someone put the random example right there. Actually, it's not like, according to our guidance.

D

The problem is, there is no order that does not break one of the one of the invariants. What do you mean? So these are the two overloads that we have right yeah, so we can either decide to keep the current ordering and add the new parameter at the end goes in which cases BioLite the other desired goal, which has that min becomes formats.

D

Well, they don't happy both because max is currently. The Nexus broker is currently the first argument, so we can only add it to the end. So, okay, either through one or.

I

The other, like I, mean you have to pick I think they need to be in order otherwise, like they are all the same type. If we start changing order parameters, it will be just complete I.

E

Think the min max is kind of exception. To that rule, all most fields.

D

Need to be careful, though, like every mmm argument exception, one of the argument exception as param name and passage switch that forgot, which one it is and always me over and like this is an early example where, like we should be careful, it.

H

Doesn't make sense for men to be Ian I mean.

D

I would generally argue that an API to pick screens is not the best design to begin with, because it's not clear what any of them mean. Like you know, a rape will create 15, 25 105 and no idea what.

I

Any of these values Yogesh that way and still have range type and just add an overload to fix range I mean today. You can help yourself by just naming the arguments right, which is.

D

All what I would do and which can order, isn't even doesn't even matter what what you can name the arguments outside when you told a message sure which is what I.

I

Would do because otherwise it's unreadable anyway, in which case I, don't care.

D

I'm just saying.

I

If we have a range type, it would solve both problems. It would be more reasonable and it will be hard to make a mistake by putting a third in their own place.

D

The grass is always greener in the future. Click the generate rule all right, I'll attend I could just keep the current order like this. Once the current order, like basically add a new overloads, basically take this one and change travel around I.

I

Don't like it wait so so you would literally.

D

I

F

I

It at the end, then you parameter what I mean so I would I would take this one here. I know that it's weird but I would add here an existing type.

D

Maybe it has to be this I, don't think anything else works, sort of two options. You.

N

Know like this, it.

F

Was introduced in.

H

Volvo not to ever cook should we also consider making it the partner.

D

Can't do that because the only ship these two it yes, you cannot default. One.

G

But who the compiler would never mention, though you.

D

Can make this zero like.

L

A sixteen by default I think right now, but they find it.

G

Yeah but the compiler would never match it, though, because if you have so many two parameters that I using the second with your trizol right, the only thing you.

H

Can communicate not what the deal is? I was a sure thing about. Usually when you have the full perms people typically used to write our names, which stops leave them in the record. How.

L

I

That I don't buy that. So you know another thing we could do and we could create a small structure this like, and you know, set of options for the buffer pool. It would avoid this problem. In addition, one of the big problems with right will end.

I

The crease method is that it tells you you know it tells you how many a race per pocket, but in a lot of scenarios, people don't want the same number of race for each pocket because they are using like one size, let's say like 4k: they want lots of rice in the 4k bucket, but pretty much none in the rest or like lazily, created you're, saying, there's more policy together. I think that people will be requesting more and more options.

I

Would you not use multiple rules for that yeah? You would use multiple pools, but you somehow have to create them and considered it. You have to basically.

D

Make the pool more flexible enough for my inputs, in which case I, hear a parent structions.

I

Better I can invent it. You know we basically would have a chart, it would have been lines marks length. You know some options about buckets.

F

And I guess the question has three expected: we will add more more configurations, more parameters over time. So that's what I'm saying I know.

I

Of one okay, there is super super useful there. It the fact that we don't have. It is actually a big problem. You know like in a lot of cases like in networking scenarios yeah you would want to use a pool in majority of the buttons that you rent are quite large and they are the same size and you don't today when you do that we create a default pool and we I think we didn't a create the pockets. I now don't remember, but what else we create, then they have the same number of erasing them.

I

Yet, in the scenario that I described you want, you know a bucket fork, a bucket with hundred pools or thousand pulls and other buckets with very small number of rules. What's.

G

The policy on potentially changing or Shrugged after it's already shipped is that allowed yes anymore. Yes, as long as the struct is not used in P invoke anywhere, we can change it. We.

I

G

Think we ain't even fine with that I.

I

G

Don't know if, if I've ever seen an example of us enough, that's why we have to definitely advocate the strive to work.

D

The question is: how does this drug help you, because you have to choose and I, give you make it instruct you have to make it immutable struck? Otherwise it doesn't do what you think. That's what you have to be able to set properties on instruct. Otherwise you just have one really long constructor that takes a whole bunch of options in.

J

Which case it's.

D

The same as this one yeah, but.

I

What has to be immutable.

D

See? Architects as much.

I

Which we generally don't do know you have a lot of out of here of our options. We exactly that's what we do know it. Most of them are classes really. Yes, sure.

D

They basically only make it master.

I

I, don't care what it yeah I.

F

Mean you saw it once so.

I

Like one allocation, it's not a big deal. How would have you ever, it seems to me. I would make I mean I.

I

Think it would be fine for it to be a child but classes the two so.

D

I

A

G

Our say parameters send me to instruct.

G

It's bed for Commodore app, so that's horrible.

G

I

There's another issue with with this API change, so a rifle was shipped out of band and then added to the framework, can we even add API stood for Donna Cornish for our channel, not in the not in the up package correct. So if we, if we decide to change something here and somebody does the work they they need to know about that, we cannot.

F

Every cool Oliver accusing costs with using garbage collection and then reintroduce another class just for options. Jason de well.

I

So I mean that you create one instance of it, so it's not a big deal, but I wouldn't mind this being a struct either I said that people feel or emo feels this class would be better well.

L

It certainly is that error I know that.

E

We also need to think about how them such a good good command. That class can be mutated, post creation as well. So that's a downside. Oh this. This.

O

Would have to make a copy, you would have.

F

The other consideration is how big gets the constructor. Does it get bigger than 65 16 bad example? Yeah.

D

But there's only really concern if you passes continuously begging for bit. You know.

L

It's similar to the.

D

Hobby, it would be fine with classes. You call this method once we're not call it. An art movement in this case, like the cost of copying, would be C allele or frozen video by the Vega yeah. It's not.

L

That it would add this guy.

I

So should we be called arrival options, or it's only about yeah, fine, yeah cuz, it may affect the runtime as well. It's not just about the creation right. Yeah I did Nick and said that to me this.

L

Is more like sketching it at this point.

L

And all right and.

D

He changed the label now.

L

D

All right next.

E

Lie on me: um let's try this one, that's the eye.

N

Our strengths so.

I

You should implement, but so I need to leave it. 11 yeah, like most people. There is on this pan and the memo on memory thin.

E

Sits so we have another thing actually is kind of. We would like to get to the capacity dictionary capacity. This do the read-only memory, whatever blocking something well.

I

We have like 10 days. We want to finishing quality iTunes. This.

D

One is I party backed off hundreds filter idea, didn't want to start working on that in spending. So.

K

D

Take a look at the center, nothing very mostly done out there anyway. What was the problem with that is not right. So then,.

F

Want to reuse the dictionaries and shrink them or resistant.

D

Yes, I, don't know enough about my dictionary, simply I, don't know what the capacity controls so there's not the number of items for words with the number of I'll drill, a hash button.

I

Or something yeah, so you know rather than I think it's it's actually the number of items before the in size. It's called pocket right and dictionary.

K

Okay, so that means I have to.

D

Take look thus.

K

A capacity is 100, I have 100 items it. It doesn't mean that I'm in a hundred is not working, because it's not a prime number. It.

F

Fix the next prime number, it's.

E

A hand like at least this capacity right, you know that's about it. That's all.

P

Right now are about this person. I'm I'm.

I

Not positive, but I think capacity means how many items you can store without resizing and, yes, it needs larger sizes. Data centers are crystals by how much larger it needs the number pockets little buckets. So as long as we know how to implement this, a quantum well.

Q

The only thing is.

I

A four, so it's we I and et cetera- is that the change we're.

H

Adding the property or the other, it.

Q

Doesn't exist at all, okay.

H

You can always sell it, but the constructor we got to see what applications it might have on well. So my.

I

Question is: don't we have shrimp on dictionary pressure? We don't well.

G

If you okay, so if you set the capacity to 100 and then you immediately call the getter, it's not going to return 100, yes, but it.

F

G

F

Prime number over 100 well.

I

You know so this is not how I designed it, but.

F

It is kinda that way is that no.

I

No, but currently do we have a get it over. We don't. We do not have a profession.

P

So it's not just.

F

A construction.

I

F

I

So capacity is, the user is studying the API I want to be able to store stock country title. You know type, it's not the number of buckets its. How many items they want to store right. The.

F

Buckets and the entries, which are the items they need to align with the size.

G

It is the number of buckets and prayers and implementation or educator farm I'm.

I

I I'm not sure if I, if it's only an input, parameter it's at the number of its number of items that somebody.

Q

Wants to start, which generally roughly equates the buckets. You don't want to have more than one entry in a bucket. If you can, would you don't do people you don't want to have one more than one or enter in a bucket if you can avoid it? Madoka is just basically like these are.

H

Things that have the same hashcode look.

D

Steady, but that depends.

H

On the hash code, it.

D

H

You can gently cannot accept. It agreed.

D

But that's the ideas you can initialize a set. This is the flat list. Essentially so let's say I pass in 100, so I have a hundred buckets, it doesn't mean that I use all 100 buckets and so on which items I go all we know they all be in the same bucket, but no no, but the thing is we.

I

Cannot have hundred crackers when you pass hundred because it has to be prime number yeah.

P

I

So this is at the number of buckets. This is common items. The user wants to slaughter.

F

That's why that's why you said it was a hit different.

I

So the next one is from run, wouldn't one. Yes, oh so I think that when, when the Gator returns, it shouldn't return the number that now that I did or the dictionary decided it should return the same thing. It's basically the number of buckets that the user said they want.

G

To start so it's so if you pass a hundred for the constructor you're now getting a hundred back in in the capacity probably correct, there's no capacity to say that we add it. So what do you want the behavior to be? If you pass 100 for the constructor you get 100 back. Does that mean we're now changing the serialization format of dictionary by evolving use? That was what, if we kind of decide to resize.

E

G

Like is what they're, like anywhere.

E

To do lots of things resize the increases we cardigans to return on 100, it doesn't make we're going to tell like you know. This is the capacity that currently do. This dictionary has well.

K

D

So naively, what I would expect to see following if you pass in 100, we return 100, we may we may use a hundred to gather the newest prime number to allocate the underlying array or whatever that number is. We should not change capacity based on that. So don't don't look now on.

J

The capacity controls is when and if he besides.

G

I, so here's a scenario: I have a dog at four point: five accusation is before I create a dictionary passing a hundred for the constructor parameter. I serialized, a dictionary out to disk I, now have a four eight. Whatever application, I read in the dictionary tonight, I look at the capacity property. Yes, what does it return? Well, we would, we would see, lies it in the in the bit.

G

Optional field t realized things no, but I'm saying if you, if you have an already serialize dictionary, one that was created with a prior version of the dotnet framework and.

I

G

New version, you read the capacity because it's wholly important background is yeah.

I

So one one thing that is weird is it would change when you see realize this utilize. If we wanted to avoid the change, would have to have a field inside to store the value that is passed, which is kind of navigator.

F

I

Now my question would be: why do if I need this? If it's, if the API, if the scenarios to decides, we should just add a method trim, no.

G

Because I don't want.

I

To avoid a location, then they have a resize proper field. We had a constructor parameter normally.

F

I

To store it with that, we just basically adjust it to whatever makes sense for this data structure or s38. When you see realize it's not visible like you cannot read this value like, we don't need to store it, we don't have problems and then, if you want to like trim, we have a metal trim. That is true. It's just not what we do not nice. Yes,.

D

That's exactly what we do in other.

I

D

Ts, that is they did. You can read and said we're not have a traumatic event. Your max s, method, which is some hand wavy stuff, may be approximate how far we often from capacity and then use something about.

I

It's you saying so. The scenario for setting which trim would not support is I already have an instance of dictionary now I'm about to nine hundred items.

I

How do I prepare the dictionary, so it doesn't have to resize and Akash many types exactly.

F

Does the dictionary not have a method like at range or at multiple? Can you only add one item you.

D

F

D

A time in the dictionary there is no ad range and.

I

Even if there's a range, sometimes you kind of you need to have done a collection of key value pairs. They.

D

Think of msbuild, they know very high on the stack that they are about to do something crazy, but they don't. They don't want to change all the code that executes sundrian fit very like this, and.

E

Another point from paradigms that the setter is will be too expensive because it's going to likely have to relocate and stuff so having it like it is that SS setter is probably be earth-like. It.

I

Should be methods a real pleasure and shorter by other methods, anything.

Q

I

Size or training to have a property that gives you the size, that's I, think better.

H

F

Method, besides, our method is called insure capacity or whatever the good Phineas. We currently have benchmarks how costly that method is because we are currently working on that and it takes like one millisecond to resize to one hundred and million of buckets I don't know, but but what calendar? Oh? It also.

E

Depends on what hardware changes? Oh! The point is that people are already creating different dictionaries today, just to work around the like of this capability. Second,.

L

So if you look, if you look at list of T.

D

Then, basically do the opposite, where they only have a set of all capacity should get about. To boil it'll mean that it's kind of a header Bolen that they have a trim, excess mother, don't have a method that takes capacity which is fine, and this pointing out like okay,.

I

We don't get consistency.

D

I

It for array, if you said it, that's what you get yeah all this weird thing is set a property to five, and then you read the property and seven I mean I I'm, pretty sure that it violates the guidelines. The.

D

More capacity is effectively underlying array, which is that will be the same characteristic except. The underlying array happens to be a multiple of some prime number and.

E

Must be here boss, you need to rehash. Yes,.

D

It's well yeah, I! Guess, that's fair right if list of T is really large resizing is also more cheap right. So they argument that setting of the capacity is not a cheap operation or any anything. So so we would basically saying we would would use the construction. We would have another method called void, resize, and then it takes a.

D

E

Q

And short capacity.

E

You know, for example, if you said resize to one and there's like a thousand items, we're not gonna, be dumb and that's where that's fair, that's fair! That's her! You.

I

Know another thing we could do: the method could be not void, could return an int that tells you how many it actually chose to resize to so, in fact you say: resize 100, it returns you back hundred and whatever the next prime, not what.

F

I

Do at a parish, Daschle.

J

I

D

You can retrieve it, I mean.

H

That they still decide what you do is if you call on your capacity and you have you pass a small value, then you currently have dated yeah.

F

What this app does it show an exceptional, or does it end up like yeah, okay,.

H

D

H

To throw an exception, yeah.

D

Actually that what you just said, I, don't action, not sure it's true the resize versus and.

P

D

Honestly, I think talking to Dave I think they want me to shrink as well what.

E

Are you gonna do throw away things you.

K

Don't have bucket chains, we have. We have them inside the array able to say you have an array that is like two billion right. You.

F

Know I mean irrelevant: it's two.

K

Million items in there you cannot resize it to array of size, one. No, let's say what let me put this way. You.

D

Have you have two underlying array that has that say size of two million for ten elements in the entire array right and resize time for door, then.

K

The number bit then delete it, fro release I saw, or should it just like, ignore you, but if you'd say ensure capacity, the question is: what's the contract or the method right, big need.

L

To be able to shrink in the line array from.

H

Leon is basically satisfied sure enough, mostly.

D

Of you exactly so, if you specify capacity lower than what current count, is you throw an exception and say you can't do that, but yet to be able to shrink, in which case it's kind of resizing, I.

E

Don't like the throwing honestly what.

L

Do you do is just ignore it basically.

E

I said, like you know: hey resize, to minimum I.

D

Mean that's I getting that season. The two is just raining on. You.

H

What you want to do ensure capacity dictionary.

D

That count they just about it I mean the fix is tribute from the consequently call outside agree with I will probably just make it go like I had yes,.

F

Straightforward being.

D

A safe service.

I

Yeah, you can always check, and you can say men know well max of my minimum.

E

I, don't like the sight of you, have to look at the count, but given that it's fast I'd, probably enough fair enough.

H

If you call it shear capacity its pass at zero to try to shrink it, I think that would be misleading. If we just let that go by and we didn't do anything essentially because you already have some number of items in your dictionary, you can go.

P

Back to your well I'm gonna, like from 90.

H

An empty dictionary after that I would expect you know new past zero, we're gonna trim to minimum no, but you just told me: you don't want anything. You want your dictionary to be a size, zero, essentially, no.

G

It just said make sure that it's large enough to hold at least zero elements. Oh that's Dan. You sure got better than 2 million satisfies Oh, unfortunately as well person, but how did your dictionary become 2 million in the first place unless you explicitly pass it as a parameter, see where you add it into where you add a 2 million items at which point like? Yes, of course, like it's never going to happen in practice, you don't like the trim well trim on dictionary, always.

F

Implies is smaller right.

G

Like what does trim mean on dictionary, because once you revoke it, everything it's all going to be shifting around anyway. So what like.

E

You can you want you guys like what will just resize from the perspective, so.

F

What's the reason why we can't have the property capacity, one of the biggest.

H

Reason I've heard is that it's going to do a lot of work for cetera. We have a done list. What.

I

We do the same underneath a.

Q

Main argument is.

I

That it's not the property, and then you have to also make.

Q

Sure that when you.

I

Read it and it does a different thing: that's a definition and the definition of the rapid just fit so here's what I would write.

P

So we don't like that word train, because it suggests that I'm going to throw away some stuff well, because trim is weird if you want to make it larger, you.

I

Don't call the same or if you want to make the day.

I

H

Most of our questions have an insurer capacity, there's an internal private method, yeah and dictionaries. The only one has a research private method instead of insure capacity formation.

D

But below but but in true capacity to me also implies it's. It's never shrinking part.

H

D

Thing we should have a name that implies they can both. So you know, shrink and grow, which I don't like the only one brought. The back is we say.

F

Yeah, so we have some ensure and show cap at capacity methods which just crew on the shrink is like marmots, it's pretty cold, usually.

O

Your own growing most of these things were what kind of exception will to throw or an understatment, probably argument or something I.

L

Think that's I, don't care so much which one of you.

F

Any concern, otherwise they were just comment and we already have to construct right. Is it just for reference here? Yeah, that's existing pre-exists, all.

E

Capacity you already.

N

Have yeah shorter.

F

Just either make it plus the two, the other one or we move.

I

So one more comment: the reason to return an int from resize is icon. Resize I passed 100. How do I know when I need to follow resize again fully? You should never be calling research when.

G

I said it like, it, never is ever needed for.

I

Correctness not.

G

I

Yeah, but if I kind of want to optimize, my call I kind of you know like I: do it in batches and I want to I, don't want dictionary to ever what's hard to tell unless we give you like, you know some.

D

Sort of factor that this indicates how we spread the.

I

Items in the buckets well, it's hard to say so so I returned an int I could implement the code that I want, which is basically I call resize, 100 I store the entities return and before you know, right before I enter you'll, add more items to the dictionary than the in that was returned. I can resize again when I read unit, because then I control, the resizing. It.

F

Doesn't happen for me, you you shouldn't use it. If it's just about the range, you would use it if you want to grow it to like 2 million from from 10 items, but not just for to the next prime number, we're gonna just snap to the higher version. That's exactly.

I

What I want to avoid that? Basically, the one dictionary to ever like for me to some next small increment I, basically monitored how many items I already added and right before it, resizes I would resize it.

G

Whatever I want, but at that point, aren't you aren't you potentially working around any type of like amortization, optimization the dictionary might happen to recovers, because if you do this exact same thing with lists, you end up having ov and squared operations, whereas if you let it do its regular double behavior, you end up amortized over them. Well, I can I can control it. However I, why is it oh and square if I do it? If you're growing the list linearly rather than excellent, I wouldn't grow with linear? We said that that.

I

G

Not just rely on the underlined digit Airy behavior, maybe.

J

I No: what's wrong is any ton of items right.

D

So if you know you are about to add 10,000 items, you know in all the current size of the dictionary you can also of the of the of list of tea, for example its yeah. You basically end up with a world where you, where you effectively like an online dictionary online list of tea maker. Oh like five times, but because you know you're doing this 10000 thing you only grow it once.

H

Well, then you should you resize.

D

The 10000 you don't resize to the old value doubles for best well, except that in dictionary is more complicated because it's not 10000. It's like it's like some higher number based on no you, you.

G

D

Dictionary.Com plus 10,000 I.

E

Guess it's if you're going to add to 10,000 and the same thing. If you know that you removed a bunch of stuff, you say, like you know what hey resize to count, yeah or I want to have buffers which size to 2 times count person, yellow.

I

Is the number for like how we use the return? That's what they were to say: I, don't want it. Let's say: I, never want action area to choose the size for me. I always want to. Do you tell you use the return value from resize like what you do is that I store it Yeah right before I had an item I check, whether I'm approaching the threshold and then I resize to whatever I want not to do what dictionary? What.

D

Do you think number of returns? Basically, you would say you pass in resize 10,000 yeah and then you would return 10,000 plus some number. That is basically reverse. Prime number without this house is different, can you just monitoring the same house.

I

Because I don't know what the adjustment algorithm is for small numbers, it's probably the dirt as very small before between what I pass and what I did back for very large numbers right numbers gets rarer and rarer and I get very large slack. So imagine that I want to create a dictionary where I control how it resizes, because today it's kind of outside of my control, so I would wrap a dictionary at the method.

I

Add at the field that says I'm approaching capacity in and I just check the field that then then I use whatever algorithm I want to resize. Otherwise, I cannot remember snap to the nearest prime number.

Q

I

I still like I control, you know, maybe I don't want a doubling the size. Maybe I want four times the size where I can implement it with it. So now the question is: what is the post? Why would we not recon decision approaching.

D

That number, though, because I mean you don't know my dictionary underlying that's right. So, like let's say, let's say we get to 90% of what the current capacity prime number ends up being right. You may measure to 95, so you called basic X accuse after we already grow.

I

On the sides know know that the number that is returned is the number of maximum numbers and maximum items that I will be able to add, but it doesn't give you the maximum number of items. My.

D

Four, we grow. You.

F

D

Yeah, that's that's what I thought I say they say you passing 10,000 and B. That CityNews prime number is a signal. Mass is 12,000 right. The return to a so.

J

D

Means we may know we may decide to resize at 10,500. How do you know which number you need to monitor to call resize before we do the resizing for you, the number that was returned, but that's not the number of EP to use is the.

I

Decibel the number that I'm proposing.

D

To return different.

I

Sense ways to propose.

D

The number that the return is when we would grow next correct, but.

E

What if it doesn't depend on a number of items, if it depends, like you know how many collisions I have in the longest chain, or something like that, like.

F

It does some digging into.

E

The deep type of the implementation of the dictionary I, don't like exposing that type of stuff. It's like so give people more than.

F

E

F

Like Mac, you.

E

Know having getter max capacity or capacity which is like you know, I did this is the size of the underlying array. I, don't want it right sure I'm, fine with that, but it doesn't tell you when dictionary is going to resize. Okay,.

I

Fine I buy the argument that sometimes it's not known at the precise stack, so we want to implement this scenario that I was talking about. We just have a protected member that gives you know like creates the next capacity.

G

I think your scenario can actually be accomplished just by using the regular term property, because what you would do is you would say, I say that the current count is 10,000 want to add 5,000 items. You would call resize 20,000, because you or in your case 40,000, because you want to do a 4x growth now.

I

It wouldn't accomplish it because it would be I potentially would resize when I didn't have, because I call I call it with you know: 100 then I resize when I'm about to add number I, mean item 101. It resizes, but it didn't have to because there was a slug and then I never had any more items. So now I just recited one more time than I would but it's fine. Okay, fine I, buy the argument that, like week, I know this number. That is useful when we call resize the.

F

Condition content: we can't predict it before I.

D

Think Ben is missing the point that we don't want to store the capacity at all, because that forces us the chance realization do.

E

You think the question is always thinks about it. Is it the capacity that we passed in or is it the capacity is really under underlying thing? Well,.

D

That's also the only I mean I mean I. Think if it's a different thing like Jenny speaking when I say new dictionary, 500 and capacity doesn't return 500. Something is funny I.

E

Told him, if you don't, you, don't see the need for the capacity to gather and he's okay, that that's all I am so good. Also.

D

This thing doesn't actually allow us to shrink or grow so.

F

I proved I, guess it's true. The new shape yeah we actually just for reference. The capacity property would not harm civilization at all. We forget that.

G

It's not that it harm serialization, because it would be optional, but the thing is I, wouldn't add it to the civilization of it all. Then this means that one side round-tripping dictionaries, some of its properties change, which is weird no.

F

No, you know the capacity would change. The capacity always existed right, it's the length of their way. No because, as you said, like we pass intent, are you posit can tell.

K

F

Wanted up to the use five.

D

Out of here and then paint changing.

K

Accommodate yes, I.

D

Mean it wouldn't be reasonable for us to throw when you don't pass it upon number. That would be very weird.

O

D

That, in some places, actually known.

G

As prime multiple but Evita.

H

Money, the underlying.

G

H

E

Even use every part item.

G

Only exceptions.

N

D

The problem is yeah that doesn't work either for the same reason, grow or shrink capacity seems like a long back all.

G

If you're coming from a see background, this is actually good point resizes a number of actual elements true, but we have talent.

D

For that I don't know, I don't know like.

D

Yeah, to meet more important in myself, consistent with I mean they don't it's probably true that size is uh not the best word bed.

D

Read bucket eyes: I, don't know redo, resizing.

E

Yeah, we have to be able to schedule another one hour to move the span IP eyes if we need them for next Sunday's. Well,.

I

um No flying or sometimes I would like to do them as soon as possible. So let's, let's keep going out to be late to this next week. The.

F

Next meeting is the staff.

I

Meeting where's I aren't you going there? It starts now correct, yes, yeah, but I'm willing to stay here. Well, it's not I mean we can continue. I know, let's continue for five minute bus keep notes for me. Please.

E

Or ping me there's something super important.

D

Capacities, sighs.

L

The normal capacity of this.

D

I'm not showing you today.

F

Yeah, yeah and learning the underlying capacity is the size of tearaway. But yes, yes see so he talks about count with a.

M

K

Is your party replying to done right? Oh yeah, I! Guess, that's so wonder if we set is best version.

E

We're not gonna solve it. Probably right now we will see if the discussion kind of continues on the issue to be heated. We can bring it back whether this way I.

D

Think I know what the API is, that somebody.

B

I

Design discussion so then, so what do you think Chris are? There are two one is a read-only span of T dangerous, get been able reference should return, read only reference this one that one and then this one over and or not well, the other one that is supported is the change on memory pin to take optional integer offset.

D

Dangerous camping reference should we try to read only reference.

I

As long as the compiler people are okay with it, can you scroll? There are comments.

D

Darren says agree.

D

Well then, I'll give American dirt I don't buy because you know the method is literally called dangerous, get pinnacle reference, so we already gave up on a patent agent.

G

And a rough TB test, you all to a function, the techs, a referee, don't leave too soon.

D

D

So yeah I think there is no downside in doing we know only here you can.

L

Only use it in more.

D

Places fuel bed, sorry, but it's although I wants and now we have a message to pass it away: Pentecost we'd only ref to remember.

I

D

Not son no mean like if I have a ref like an actual rep anyway to cast it away. I think there is I. Didn't we add one? Doesn't it like an unsafe method, breaking costly? The way we could out wonder if one doesn't exhaust every.

J

Certainly we had that may be wrong.

D

That's when I don't.

B

Know English.

I

D

The one ever would it be unsafe and that's in system run time. Other services.

D

Yes, it's one of those guys yeah the renders incorrectly, but it takes it. We know never forgives over.

L

B

D

B

G

Happens if you kill a really rough you'll, get the bunted yeah, but it's a regular writable pointer, yeah. Okay, but then you mean unsafe code, yeah yeah, the.

D

Ones, you have a pointer, we technically don't care, although or like delete. Is it even such a thing as I? Guess it's a consequent or and see right.

D

No I forgot like there's come spoilers and there's pointers to pointers are coached yeah.

R

Something like that.

D

Like it depends on where you put Const keyword, oh.

L

I gotta see this.

D

J

D

It this way, like my Mike Hannibal, is, is pretty minor. It looks like a good addition, but I don't have a lot of experience with this, like I mean I would defer to you and ER, because you've worked in a system that had pretty strict. We don't witness young claims, the create slaughter, I, don't know, okay. So if.

I

You can write this at the end of the of this thread, basically say whatever Yong, Christophe and compiler people want.

G

Even when this EPR is already hidden from intellisense yeah,.

I

It's actually being I think moved to unsafe. If I remember going in for scape animal refuge,.

G

Okay, so it takes I see so it's no longer a method hanging off of spam. It's going to take a Spanish program, I think.

I

So I'm not absolutely sure, but the point is that the compiler people are working on that syntax to be able to just pain stands at which point you don't ever need to call this API line or almost never a fine yeah, and there are reasons to call it. But.

I

Much less than today.

G

When we call a Lord for sense.

Q

I

Agree, this is not really like an idea, design nation. It's like.

E

Nice makeunder, not updating so yarn is not pushing back, is just calling out is gonna, be difficult.

Q

E

Yarn is not pushing back against the idea he's just calling out. It's gonna be expensive, I totally.

K

P

It Oh to change everything all the places and he you know he suggests this plan of staging it. Yeah expensive, work, wise yeah chart the climate, oh I,.

D

L

That I'm just wondering if whether we why we have to touch that many places, because.

E

It's already used in so many places in other repos and things so breaking into orbit. This.

D

So just bounces back as API interpret something uh seismic position. The line for I'm, not the client to dictate on me.

I

Right, let's, let's.

D

I

To take an optional integer offset, so basically what happened is we removed this offset from pin based on some discussions? I, don't know what they were. It broke asp.net very late in before they were shipping signal, our Ahsan Haque. Did it I forgot how, by changing memory, handle to be immutable, be able to adjust the offset something like this and basically the bright fix is to add this API back.

D

And can we actually do it the way it's addressed, meaning an optional one? We are introducing you overall yeah.

I

It can be option.

D

This is not too late to change that then.

I

I don't care now. Otherwise, we, basically we have a bit of a hug plus. You cannot use own memory.

I

Directly, in the same way that memory of tea is using it so memory.

F

Of tea, basically.

I

Has access to the internals of memory handle and just adjusted, adjusts it but like if a third party wants to write something else that uses sound memory, not memory of tea, then they basically cannot adjust the pointer. So the thing is imagine that you write something yourself like memory of tea, it wraps on memory, but it represents a window like a small segment of of the memory when you call pain, you're gonna get pointer to the beginning of the buffer, not the to the beginning of the window that you represent.

I

G

It's pretty encapsulation, there's a fogger and basically.

I

As some fixed it by adjusting the pointer insights on memory because they are in the same smv on memory and memory of tea,.

D

What about the other span ones.

I

So this one like this one, this one, this one's the this inspector I, think we should find. We just don't have time to do it.

N

I

Let's, let's just omit it, you can even like it change the milestone to one put it two points too,.

L

Future so the sale.

I

Especially that it can be done manually, you don't need the API.

I

Yeah, so this is like Steve dope compel complained about this. A lot and I agree with them. So long time ago we decided that you, if you have like a you, know a different type than span like string. First, you have to.

I

And then you slice it using the slice API so spam right and its super of their balls, and it looks really bad so people would want something directly on string like string that you know, slice would be better, but you know, as read-only span seems to be a good contrast. I tend to give you I think my.

D

Me when we talked about this thing, I realized I was decided that we would introduce string segment and use.

K

D

More frequently, and would maybe you slice methods on segments as well, which I think we have largely given up on, in which case the guidance to you know a call within a you type universe, and you can slice within that. It seemed like that. Universes only span so might as well just have the methods directly on the off the time, which is having problems with.

I

That so, actually you know now that we support so before. We only support it. It spans up over a string. Now we support both on and memory I, actually, don't see a difference between your strength, segment and read-only memory of char. It's it's the same thing. It's he people type and it represents the segment of a string. I.

D

L

D

There was a whole discussion that we had all final thing or email at some point where it's like. Well, the string, seven.

I

Actually so, at this point, like honestly, I would even prefer to call these methods. Maybe slice I, don't know, but it's they have up. My problem is they are already. They are even long here like it used to be very long and busy. Now it's as read-only memory.

G

Yeah, the only problem I have with slice, misses a minor issue. Honestly is say that say that you have existing subside, that you're writing code, where you want to start reading from the second character mystery, you skip one character, so you do string dot slice one. Basically now oh I actually need to change that. I need to pass in the entire string as a span, rather than just everything after the first character.

G

Now, instead of slice, one I delete that inculta as read-only spam, which is a bit weird that I'm calling a different method name to do effectively the same work minor issue. I could always call slice zero as.

F

I say like that, you.

G

Can do that back, which is the most straightforward, yeah thing.

I

Yeah personally, I can go with either one of them. I can live with that one as well I've. In essence, the only thing is that so only one of them can be called slice. That's you know, but only one of the bearers can you go to slice the other one Baltimorean span right?

I

P

The only slice, video.

E

Well, both of them are in only this pan one is Memorial, that's it true. Yes,.

D

Eon is here you can do that, so what will you call them in that.

I

Case because I would I would say this is for with the most sense, nothing the 1 2 3 times 3. Don't remember no.

D

I mean I would say like instead of doing.

I

D

They would go with this because that doesn't have the ambiguity. It's pretty clear. What you would you get.

G

Would you be able to remove the read-only parts of those methods just to make the little shorter so will be a stand-in.

J

How's memory I won't, do it left, but at the same time I don't think I mean. But it's clear.

D

J

You could argue, because.

D

It's only with only one string, but we have so many other plays every do a Spanish we'd always find that it seems just for pure consistency. We should probably stick with the rhetoric. That's right! It's just these.

I

Are very common and the.

E

Names so long, so what what about to make it longer slice as a read or miss pan slice as a read-only memory until.

P

A sense it's going to show up I'm just going to pick which one of them we'd all it Isis memory slices span or we have to read online or adoption.

D

They might optimization and I'd rather see differences in nomenclature than often six key strokes, given.

J

D

All did it anyway,.

E

Oh Ezra, don't miss panic, yeah I.

D

Mean honestly, the only thing is the title for this: video is AR OS or AR, where.

G

Would we do the same thing to array have as spam or to spam that takes arguments I.

D

Would say yes, what do you want to write today? We don't have those citations, yeah, I, would say.

P

That up so do we have here.

E

An ESRI domeless panel on the strength today.

I

mmm No, we have s span as spot on. Oh sorry,.

P

No, no you're right. We have as read on this pad. Yes without you without you, the society so.

E

This is doing on top.

P

E

That slicing that's actually pretty consistent with that yeah, even though just slicing as well. But you know well.

D

You say that, but I can we talked about this. Originally we said that problem is you want to reserve slice for a different terminology than getting expand, all of it an.

J

Origin, the idea was.

D

You have a method that brings you into a table, universe in which you can do slicing. So basically that will take string and you would either create a string segment or you would create the span gray same thing. You would either convert the array into an array segment.

D

We would convert it into a span and then both array, segment and string segment would have sliced methods and the other one would have the same thing and then yeah I, don't know why we concluded that whatever name Bryza, you type universe, doesn't allow slicing at the same step, because it would still be consistent with that I forgot. There was some debate we had and we decided that that's the way they want to go um well. I think it was because.

I

The methods were called slice initially, and then we decided to call them as and then as it's kind of weird, that it takes parameters and I think it was a bit of hair splitting and in fact, one of the things that I really don't like about the current api's is that we keep putting the read-only into like these methods. So here's one one more time. My page, there are types they are either naturally read, write or naturally read only.

I

We should just have a method as span as memory, and they return the thing that naturally corresponds to whatever they are. If they are read right, then we have implicit cast from we'd write span to read on this pan and from readwrite memory to read only memory- and you know like we would not have those very long names that address only to the name and it doesn't.

J

Add any file, fine I agree with Chris all successful they're like it's so I have no problems with doing that. I I.

D

Just think we should do it consistently across the board and but.

I

D

Bomb and I already consistent.

I

Because the only type that is naturally be done is strength yeah. Otherwise you know what I write we.

F

I

F

As span because, well it's read right: if the methods already exist, I would say it's more consistent to use those instead of going to use the same. We turned her stager second, so those methods really exist, but as.

I

A reader miss pan.

F

And we just studied it recently, so we can change it. I.

I

See one orthotics is that, basically it doesn't take any parameters, but we can cinch it so.

P

Is that is that the only.

E

Method that has read only internet no.

I

I think so, because the on type that we have that is like this is all okay. This.

D

Also he on arrays you have s, would only spend about the only way you can get rid only spent on array. Otherwise you would always get them mutable version of well.

I

But then that's what I'm saying that's a this s span and you can then implicitly class to read on span. If you want to optimize it. You've called the method that has now special name, because it's like an optimization so.

D

I hear what you're saying it's something that we haven't done in other areas so like in, like usually we say, as you specify the type name you get back like that's, usually what you do I mean like, for example, like take, take immutable collections. We don't have as Liz and say. Well it's an immutable array. You get a removable this, it's fine like it's. We try to stick to like make the names consistent with the time names, I, I'm,.

I

Not sure if they're survive, because, basically we don't repeat type names in all names of properties and api's like we don't have methods that are called you know create, and then it's also like we follow with the name of the type. Typically as.

F

I

For us regions, we name whenever can say we didn't I got no way of that. Let's create that, doesn't take anything else as another.

G

Way, I agree, but what else is supposed to give you a different view into the same object? General? Yes, so it needs kind of water. I'll get right, yeah.

D

I'm one of the spheres we have as read-only, which, depending on which type you're on using different representations of every only rapper, to read only dictionary, I, think.

L

We have, we have read only.

D

Collection, buddy.

D

Yeah I, don't to me it seems like in mine, optimization just for the sake of saving keystrokes, which are generally not a sign off.

G

Would it make more sense if we could somehow have an implicit cast from string to read only span of chart I believe you're able to have that have Tania all right. Steve ended that I'm, apparently really behind times.

O

You know it's like one equal one week old. So yes, it's.

D

Just that I think the ass on the usually easier to deal with where.

I

You basically, if you want to create a slice of string, you would have to manual cast it and then you can select. Yes,.

D

Four columns is.

I

On Roger yeah, which has a relatively easy here,.

D

So, regardless of this one I can see the proposal is about this one and possibly about adding these overalls here, you're proposing different languages renaming these things. Okay,.

J

Fine fine, let's see the separate.

D

I think I would say that within this thing, I think there's nothing I would. The only thing I would add, is.

A

L

Didn't have this and then.

A

It is going from the stage.

L

E

We have a big back. We have tons of all extension method as we don't expand on array segments. Do we want ya memory as read-only memory on.

I

There, a segment which are you looking I'm.

E

Looking at SPI subnet, so it's back to the issue. Looking at the consistency we just added as read-only span, so that's something that might guys want to kind of look. You know on the consistency of all the lights extension matters. Probably you just add an array and maybe erase segment is another example. Maybe not.

I

So we have sequence, equals and people want sequence. Compare.

I

The compare spans some.

J

Of that I think seasonal. To me why.

G

Not introduce an actual, proper ie quality or I. Compare what would you.

C

Call the I compare it on like.

G

Woohoo, no, isn't you have? You have a class that implements icomparer of scan a byte and read only spent advice, and then it has a talking parrot juice spun in genetic argument. Yes, by.

L

Good thinking, yes,.

D

That act ready sure this will eventually in more the living out of me.

D

L

For delegate this is going to be Bigfoot.

D

Did we do the generic right, no pun intended, but we have big funds. It effectively takes fancied me add one for how did we call it? Fung spend spend something.

N

D

D

Yeah, it seems like consistent with yellow one. Everybody had like a a.

J

And then you would also help on the Texas memory. Just for consistency and.

D

Only we did this I think we gently said when you want to do any operations, you have to get a span out of it for us. I believe that's true.

N

N

Once empty this yeah.

L

N

Don't worry about that. I decided that there's only central people who jump on those things.

D

We're not says that they had ever had advance that you're very smart.

B

D

And confidently try to do this in the past that it didn't work.

G

By the way that EPA already exists, the one that we just looked out, which one it exists in system buffers primitives yeah, it's about getting you to go defense yeah. uh By the way the name is different. It's compared to not comparable just a finer, yeah, I think yeah I think that the compared to its sequence compared to just four because all of the other comparison methods renamed compared to that is rather than just.

I

G

I

No I think the reason is because initially a it was an extension method.

G

Yes, at the moment in system buffers primitives, it's implemented as an extension of what would have two sequel internet and.

I

P

Cannot be called.

I

P

To if it's not an extension method, it will read very strange: it is an extension of it. He says that it is extension methods and over here as well yeah. This is an extension right. Okay, is it a first dawn.

I

Sequence compared to set yeah there's a close to sequel, chaser yeah, that's yeah! That's what I kind of met if it's an extension method that can be called compared to it. Yes,.

N

G

So I didn't mean the context which you move dollars.

L

Yeah, like that's and actually.

I

Know if you call it without extension, method, same taxes anymore, you unmuted, I, couldn't hear you. Yes,.

D

Because you're, the only one on it, oh now.

K

We have ban no I mean, like oh I, see.

K

E

Just watch the you know, we.

P

Have life on YouTube so.

B

But so I do that at play with it felt sharp.

D

All right, so let me edit read only list please little bit string, I, don't know why we didn't do it I! Think one of the Russian novels. You look at types, implement a list and string didn't implement ideas, I.

L

Think that's why we didn't do it.

D

To me, the question at this point is like: what's available there.

E

We'll actually something from Paul herring are just ghosts. No, he just suggested to count.

E

Now yeah, this is actually one year old. He did some vs digging or flicking.

D

Honestly, giving they know, I've spent like I, really doubt that this is any.

B

Drink, we definitely do not otherwise dream. That's.

D

B

D

I know what I wanted it, but that what they want is a very different thing.

D

They want to have an abstraction, so they can unify bs text buffers with he.

E

Wanted actually for Rosslyn, so yes.

D

Oh yeah because wasn't reps yes next buffers, but the way she saw the bat in source text so horrible.

D

Honestly I would I would go. Let's reject for now for.

G

Enough, like you know, let's, let's ask Paul what he thinks like it would.

C

Be too soon to not implement any interfaces? Okay in any collection, good.

N

Luck, you can fork what we.

I

Used to have a string that did not implement a lake election in the basis. Why did we have to use in system run time? That's.

C

E

Then there was a revolt or something and.

I

Then there was a revolt.

D

D

M

In the area total value, what that cares, I don't share, but I'm not convinced interface is adding eternal value for that perk of the curves. They.

L

Are allowed for.

M

L

I guess if we should be caught.

D

H

I

So hacen we move the span extensions as vector to future okay, I, okay, we'll put.

P

Them on Japan, not about my spine expansion, as money goes with this. He just talked to others, just pushed it off and.

F

Didn't petition was a.

L

Little bit, it's.

P

Working, it's just I mean it's, because we wanted more.

L

D

P

Or this is it just said? Okay, he doesn't think it's adding some of it. Well,.

I

As vector no it's about you, it's just, we are any of this time. Is it gonna? Do it.

E

Then, let's do they pair of you now, like you know, we have time. Oh you.

P

See, oh yeah I. Can we can review the entire? You don't have to.

E

Implement it right.

D

P

No, you shouldn't.

L

D

Implement, like that's the whole point, all right. So then, oh god, really! Oh.

L

G

Thinking so this would only return the first, the number of elements that actually fit into the vector, so it needs to actually.

I

It needs to match I think.

R

So in that gets me be that if checked but then dimension does matter, you say initially a multiple of utter count. I think so.

I

How human, deep, by the way like the implementations, are there in the propulsive? It's both an API proposal and the implementation.

I

It's just basically the same tax. That's not you know like it's. Basically, every time I want to write it. I have to go and search for the existing code. That does that the does this because I don't remember.

D

Yeah, let me points to a different API.

I

There are like three constants, a type guys.

I

But then Ben said that we don't need to read that on the light.

G

And his men chanel is because x86 doesn't care most likely.

D

Sure won't be simple Mullenix. It is easier.

G

Thing is there. There are actually two different intrinsic instructions for reading on alignment along vectors. I.

D

Forgot, I think, back to of T is I. Think if it's living on the stack, it's always in line or something I, don't know what we do when we return in functions. But what's the scenario for us so basically the vector of T is in the register right, you know so effectively. You are. We already have API, allow you to Lotus in your register right from memory, meaning a pointer right, and this is basically same thing for a slice.

D

It is a bit weird, but it's not entirely with, because basically so the question is yet you know here it basically size has to be exactly the size of this. In your.

I

Register so another API that we should consider is it takes a span of T and it returns a a span of vector of D.

L

I

I think we had some ideas so basically takes penalty, yes, and the returns span on factor of T all right, it's kind of back trashed edges and that it returns is like basically takes the span of T. Let's say it's: 5 million yes, divided.

F

I

Yeah, you know 1 billion vectors, plus some slack that then you have to manually like deal with I think this is how our code is actually implemented. This is a building block for the actual API. The do.

D

We have an API assure we.

I

Don't have an IV I like in the implementation. We keep writing this code that basically, every time you write you have to like look up house. You know we wrote it like spent expanded by target index of uses.

G

D

So when we designed vector of T, we talked about adding that API and me never did, because we didn't had consuming code now that we have consuming kovash to design an API. Well.

I

I think the the other reason is that initially there was no non allocating way to create a collection, something so you couldn't have this API, because you know, let's say: I have a byte array or array of some things. He wants to return a collection of vectors. Where is the representation of the collection it would allocate? Now that we have a span, we basically just reinterpret like there's no reason now we can can ask. We cannot just return it. It has to load because, because it in span we have a length.

I

R

Thing is: go like how does this do this alignment, because not only do we have to worry about the multiples of better count, the survey about alignment in some of our API limitations, and if you haven't pinned the span, it could go out of alignment on.

I

The next you see, yeah I, did not remember it does with somebody like what the implications are before we vote on that. Let's.

D

Just talk about this API, so we have a and then another API. Today the constructor on vector of T. It takes an array and an array in an offset any reason, a certain swagger on what does that? Okay? Well, this instructor is by 30 because we already have a constructor vector of T, but the only thing you can do it right now. As T and T array, yeah say: cheese, cheese fell yeah and it was the same semantics as oh.

K

E

Me think about it. Can we do that, whereas lecture does Vic vector, live the.

K

Fun dances sayings is it you know, because it's this one has more time rap. You can totally change. This is naked. It doesn't.

L

Yet so what everyone action.

E

Oh you you're right. We already sprinkling be CL bit but notice. Oh shut up, I.

D

L

Will allow the vector of T, let's go.

D

That one span will live lower than vector of T does today, so it will be fine.

D

And it's the most natural idea, other.

L

D

I

Think I know no I, now remember: okay, so it's becoming CCR I filed it on September, 29th I've already done three members. So Eric molinos comment is a good comment.

I

It based it basically is the best way to do it. So I think the API is designed now or as I proposed copies. The data tells us what it technically has legs the data from the span and creates a vector and copies the data into the vector. What Eric is proposing is a non no copy.

G

It's just Larry.

O

In Turkish cast.

G

O

G

Want to do an operational that it needs to be pumped into your register. Reading, okay,.

O

G

It's not a copy, it's a load in red. So that's what it is assuming Jade.

P

I

Drill that one loading look that the API as I proposed is first to you, copy data from span to vector and then when you want to do.

C

The end operation, like a vectorized operation, you have.

G

To copy to a vector, so I actually have code like this and I looked through the code room and the jitter is smart enough just to move the data directly into a register. This is like this code here.

D

Meaning going you through all but like this part here effectively becomes a whatever they send you a better set of instruction. Is it becomes.

J

A single structure.

D

And that is also why these two make these guys here, like this constructor here is the same thing, your basic: it's it's a load or managed point: okay, okay, so.

I

Then yes, I, think.

D

I think what he's? Let's just add them, constructor I, think when he supposes.

I

Persons also available, yes, that's the that's the chunking, but the other variables is the building block for that correct. Okay, let's, let's just add a constructor instead of a PID, Titan post and then the API that Erik proposes. We should do it but separately. Yes, I'll! Try to file an issue like that. That would be so.

D

The only reason why we forgot what distant and I technically that's the same.

E

The chunking would be interesting because, as you mentioned, the alignment by player roles wall, so you might have something at the beginning, then chunks and then something at the end. Right.

G

Well, what do you mean something at the beginning and we don't have it aligned, but the thing is the GC is free to move that span around in memory if it points to a heap object and it's it's guaranteed that it will never get unaligned with respect to the natural world. Sighs but vectors are 256 bits jobs. Well, that's.

N

I

But at the time when you call the API, it can determine how much slack it needs in front and back right, it'll dissing, the alignment Atlanta yes, but what? What does that get you.

R

What do you mean with this way? You can process the bytes there unlined.

G

First then, process the, but if you haven't pinned the span at the time that you perform the check and then your next line starts executing at GC could have kicked in and move the span around anywhere and cups leaded infinince. You have like, if you, if you want to point to, if you want to pull memory and treat it as an ally vector you absolutely have to pin you can't work around it, it needs more talk.

G

Maybe it's not possible. Like look at the utf-8 code that I've been writing. I work around us in several places are where I do vectorization.

G

N

Is collectible on the top at the Mondovi on there.

D

This is such a thing as electrical tired, maybe only reflected with assembly.

M

E

Staying or question you, we don't have it to the full extent. You can look random stuff, but you can recommend collectible assembly in dogmas framework, I'm.

D

Saying I think we have collected less and everything has such a thing. Little pipes. Oh, is why I find this API is some word I mean you could generally say it's a type content method will assembly, but it seems not sure what this thing does from what.

D

J

Can you hope the.

D

Type to the simulant ask this: anyone disconnected.

D

This is one actual way.

G

So there's literally.

O

G

What's so I'm sure we typed up this collectible already exists well.

D

That may be because of my nixing, it's just not yeah nixing like this. Okay, no.

G

I don't have the time, but do you see that oh source, Tata Tata, that might be looking at the wrong.

O

It may be wise for NATO.

D

Because it exists in implementation, well,.

E

Because he edited 22 hours ago.

K

So what is it an invitation to well, and that would propagate into your set thing this quickly? We did sorry.

D

Will propagate so quickly? From course, you probably did implementation, but index Revit, the semblance right so, which is why it's not exposed. Yet it's only the implementation, but is there very shortly so? What is this implementation? Is it just to return assembly blah, or does it you're asking hard questions right now? Are you looking.

G

At the code in you know, I'm mind I'm. Looking at the metadata, oh I see.

G

N

True, well that it.

L

Does yeah would say well.

E

Jana approved so there must be some truth to it, but the heck, hey, I'm, really.

B

Yeah, let's not go into that.

N

D

Using care successes as other expressions.

L

L

Spell the word next.

L

G

We do, we have collectable methods.

E

Or the dynamic.

B

Generators of the others like LCG.

E

P

Lecture they are on fake types or, and it all SAR collectible, so I think I know why? Because it depends on the context.

I

Underst blood context is property of the type and opposite.

E

Let's ask young: why do we need it here.

B

P

Timid is left, we.

D

Might actually go to this today, you will anyone understand syndication feet for matter. um Mikey level is close to zero. In with this whole API doesn't know UCF, but I would say, generally speaking, something that takes a constructive generic like this. It's not a great API.

D

But what's already on that tile, maybe it's questions any it's consistent with every has in.

F

The daytime professor, that's.

D

A weird they appear, but it with they don't my distantly Mitch would design my god. It's like he ever found a document like what's wrong with you, one two, three four yeah the arguments on the front entities and addicted.

G

Forum also WCF does use delegate patterns in quite a few places. I, don't think this is actually out of the question given their existing programming model. I'm.

D

Just looking at syndication feed format, I don't see anything that takes returns or produces fun so on.

G

On that type itself, you oh.

D

You know what they're doing I think I know what the problem is right.

G

D

They I think that trying to be I can't quite see it here, but basically I think what they do they try to do. Is they they try to uh not this one here. This one I think I try to formalize that API or something that extent.

D

Or do they know the ApS interested he pudding is different when it said, was that string string, string.

M

No I don't think it's really what.

E

If we asked them next time to join us.

A

They were just the fire.

B

We might want to pour catch.

D

Bounded concurrent queue.

D

Okay, that's Steven again using a ton of English words that I don't understand is.

B

An undelete when safety with the private operations I think you try to do yep.

L

Oh I see anything so.

O

He wants to have a max size on a fixed size.

D

So any reason why this wouldn't be just an API existing tied.

G

G

What is does concurrent, you even have a try and cue method, or is it just in queue by itself? I think it's just in humans, yeah. That makes the existing API not usable for the scenario unless you have a throw, but you don't really want to throw well. You.

D

Couldn't do all of those right now, but then you have basically type that is in a weird mode right here. The only one set of API is valid. I've tried.

R

That acute yeah congratulations.

D

R

In karate and trying q yeah Stephen mentions are already in the post, yep.

G

Yeah I make it a new type, is probably a better idea because it does have different behaviors and I'm.

N

E

Let's as well implementation detail of our current I.

D

Would say it's generally useful to have a new type when you effectively establish a family off of API is that our did have to be used usually exclusively from whether a class. In the same time, in which case you should have two different types, and that seems like it's kind of the territory, but because there's only one said what words that you should be using. The other ones are ill-defined.

G

Well, we'll turn this around ignore concurrent queue. If we were to put a cap on list of T, what would it look like? Would we have a triad method instead of just out it would just throw when you.

D

Reach that would say you construct the list of T and then the other method just falls out, but they just fail. Once you read the cap.

R

But then that makes a slower right. Could you do that check every time, so they would make C. You would penalize everybody who's using this of T whole list of Tito errors guaranteed never to throw, but as.

G

R

You bid it oh except me tomorrow, everybody is when you build a bunch of that, a performance right by the way today, a panel, your basic. Now everybody has to do the check.

G

And engineers, and given the concurrent queue, is by definition you, you can't do the check before you call in here, like there's no way like you've always have to be prepared for in here to throw if we use the same type. This.

D

Is true, although to Yahoo.

A

D

You cannot believe this thing in place for existing code missing Co could never handle that thing. That may be true, although I'm not sure that this by itself would be strong enough reason not to change the time that sense.

D

In the Attic I, what I don't like about types and hip molds is that it basically makes documentation virtually impossible, like I.

J

D

At the state machine you have been used, attired, which, which I agree with Steven points more towards. Let's have a new type that has a behavior.

D

That we should do it more for the suit me on that one I think the.

D

Just talking about the scene as nation, nothing helps alright I think we're out of time, but we went to almost all of it, which is do.

G

You approve this film.

D

Or could you ask the question here and then this one needs more talking and this one I asked what.

E

More talking, we have to flood management well,.

P

That one's even greener, the call- that's not gonna happen for until the end of January, they just find out things. Api is really like critical for anybody like.

D

For money, voters like it would be nice, API nice to have you two all right, I would say things online and.

D

Salsify, the post one I can actually stop cleaning all right all right guys.