.Net Foundation Design Reviews, 30 May 2019

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: .NET Design Review: JSON

Description

-01:-21:-41 - Approved: We should base64 encode byte[] when writing Json https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/36974#issuecomment-497411886
00:21:44 - Approved: JsonSerializer writing into Utf8JsonWriter https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/36714#issuecomment-497417558
00:39:15 - Approved: JsonSerializer reading from Utf8JsonReader https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/36717#issuecomment-497418459
00:40:55 - Needs Work: Utf8JsonReader\Writer should support all primitive types https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/36125#issuecomment-497424987

A

All right, no me alive. No, we can actually pretend nothing happened. All right here.

B

We go so you may want to scroll to the bottom. That's me, I have better deals so much exactly.

A

Oh, if history just edit the post, yes.

B

So here discussed: writing Bay City for previously on the rider api's and we what the viewer needed. However, on the street hazardous utilizar vibrators, are commonly encode and decode as basically four. So we want that behavior regardless and if the sea dancer has the behavior, it might add the API, don't read and write as well, and that's because that's what the citizen leverages the proposal is to add four right, basically four api's and get by say P as on the reader side. So you get both basically core strings.

B

You return byte arrays and if you write, if you alright bytes, you write them as basically forward strings.

B

Some questions are just on our naming actively and this magical throwing I chose write as density for string because we write bytes as basically for a string, I'm, okay with either bytes or basically for having it be a suffix didn't seem right because that I've seen now I didn't follow our existing ideas. We have you had string as a suffix.

A

Okay, so let's pick up of these two first, let's talk about the writer yeah I think the writer makes a lot of sense to me. Is it's proposed because basically you're saying what you're writing it makes you little a few guys that we have on it the nobody else can see, but hey I am like that it so the existing one. We already have right. Boolean write a comment right now, right number right start erase. Basically the methods are basically what is kind of a token I guess yeah.

A

What is the decision all my being written and then you have overlooked just whatever the shape is that we have. We have right string with a byte array of char yeah and then like and then so it's basic supporting and Jason. It's not really right. No, it's.

C

Not a decent, primitive, but it's a common. It's a common pattern for sending arbitrary data right non textual data.

B

Okay, but it was someone requested it.

B

What does it look like in Jason is just the string is the string, which is why I have write as wheat or string so to match.

D

Whatever I just had up XML writer I think we do. You think word of the word has.

D

That smell writer has write basics before and then something else so right, base64 string matches the it intersects what you've been doing with the suffix of whatever the Jason type is with not having it as in the middle of right, base64, okay,.

B

That's I'm kind of that should.

A

We have like right string as 864, so that's why that.

B

A

More logical, given the API servers of the writer so.

E

For the reader they're for XML reader in 3d element content as base64, but the writer doesn't happy ass right.

B

And for your question around having NB suffix you're, not writing a string, especially for grating bytes as basic question. So if you say write string as basically four that's doesn't the input that you faceted bikes illustrate. Ok,.

A

Replace as within my point, is more like you're writing a string, which is why it makes sense that the method starts off right string and then basically the type itself is not indicated enough to just make it an overload. And that's why I just said like you just started with the you're: writing a string token so that for the method, its right string and then you say in base64 or like base64-encoded or whatever they're use. But this.

F

Isn't this isn't necessarily writing a string token? Isn't it is always ready for anything? Sorry, it's not writing the input to this isn't necessarily a string. It could be arbitrary bikes.

B

G

That's all it said.

F

Right string as I would be confused because then I would think that everything I was passing as input represented a string right. That.

A

I'm confused by that, because, basically, when you say look at the writer today, we have, for example, right number, which is several overloads. One of them is, we know, only spend occupy it. Some of them has been only spent off char. Some of it is a decimal double whatever right. Basically, the methods that we have on the writer are named by what they generate in the JSON: yes, not what they take in terms of inputs.

A

That's why I would start off right string and then choose some appropriate suffix right, I mean I, get that as is not great but like, let's say in base64, or something like that. The.

B

Only thing is I was thinking or right.

A

String: basics.

F

Has the operation.

B

Being a prefix string, being the suffix as the just literally right and what was in the middle is whatever you want as fast yeah. It's.

E

The important thing, the contextual thing is: you're writing base64 and then you're. Writing it as a string, and so, if you're going to be looking for it, you're not gonna. Look for a write straight, but you're gonna look for write, base64 and then the string is just contextually telling you we're emitting it as a string token. So.

H

I, don't disagree Moe's.

F

Point to the other api's would all be as number right.

D

mmm Which I mean if it's right, if.

B

I

String as base64.

D

The word Adams have.

I

Physics, I think.

D

The input is a straight night and that the bytes are gonna go one.

I

Right so being in.

D

Good if it was just right, string base64 and we had a no linking verb.

D

It wouldn't obviously be the string as an input and then looks close enough to the rest that it's like. Oh I, get this within like a half a second. If we think that string needs to be adjacent to right, then I would say right, string, base64, but the linking verb said if we I.

D

I

Is it's writing.

D

Update 64 share granted, that's not adjacent primitive, but that's what it's actually writing. That's.

B

Why I prefer but I don't get the right string keyboarding we can flip it.

A

Yeah we generally do suffixes, but like I yeah, either way it works. For me, like all I'm saying, is that the given a VI pattern that we currently have is that Li, the prefix is always the je suis primitive, but I am I just feel like it's. It's a DNA, it's up to the people that the youth Jason all they think about it. The only thing we should avoid is that I died because of coffee.

A

They will be said and remember. The one API will be labeled ID. Yes, we would, and we would remember that I'm still cold in the room. That's what it is. It's too cold in this room. No I think that. So the question is, would somebody ask when you see base64? Is it clear that it's a string, whether that's a byte array right and you could say that you say basically, four string.

B

Maybe that's enough right. The question would be for the other approach, but you have right string basically for what has become for right string value where we just have a value, because currently right basically for string value is easier to read. Then I string, basically for value that rental value.

G

B

Sure that might break the tie and you okay, just stop the as miserable.

A

Yeah I think it would gentleman go up the ass because they'd be weird, so it would be right, string, base64, not the other day. What would be right, no basis for string right and then well yeah you just combined it with a do or not yeah either. One.

B

Works, okay, parameter names, I chose bytes, not data or byte value, because bytes is what we have on the existing Bay City for api's and what else will be I was thinking like maybe data or bytes value, to specify this value.

B

We're not interpreting it in any way, shape or form. Yeah.

B

Okay, on the reader side, we have get bytes and try guide bytes and the same API has exists on this. An element.

B

We want to say be much business saying basically, four encoded bytes.

G

Ours are destroyed, get by sufficient okay, so the problem.

D

Is given that we don't have Chari and that you're working on a thing that says bite get bites, sounds like it's getting the underlying data stream.

G

Because you passed in a reverse manner, by announced I'm going to give you the bytes that it's very much in fact, what you are not doing. Yes, I, find it the more verbose.

B

Name of get busy before enjoy boys leave the naming.

D

So, to like the convert API is we have convert from base 64 bytes. Maybe this should be good place. A 6.

G

C

Not that seems a little long and verbose, but it's also I think kind of adequately descriptive, but it's shorter than they get base64, encoded, bytes and yet base64 encoded bite also makes it sound like you're going to get the byte representation of base64 encoded text, which is Jesus, Christ, yeah and you're good mate. Yeah right you could. You could conclude that and it does the opposite. It decodes base64, yeah, yeah,.

A

I think the only thing is I think try and get binds it's too short, because, basically you could. You could imagine that we maybe support anything to be represented as byte that the other day all right. So it's very unclear that this only really is meant to be code base 64. So by.

B

The way hold on the basic point if you had to be added its decode from you, keep hearing, because we people are.

G

Look base64 was the type thing convert.

E

Pass we we call it from a 64 spring yeah I call that.

G

Api, like 14 times a day.

D

A

You're the problem.

E

Do we want to expose the base64 formatting options as sudden as a parameter you're not allowed to have.

D

Rubbing you can write a backslash in.

D

We can't actually put anyone.

D

Yeah I would I would suggest get bytes from basic support. No problem.

I

Indicates and there's a decoding.

D

The base64 says what the encoding was and because the data type is implicit from the context. Okay,.

B

I'm, finally, also the primary name value is consistent. That is maybe I shouldn't call it, but is.

D

Usually outbound you.

J

Trying try get basics before fight, try to get bikes from a 64.

D

From base64 string, there's no string string is a type that has a weight. It is a length prepended and null appended used, utf-16 le encoded value managed by the CLR. This is bytes that it already knows how to interpret there's no.

B

Good to me, one thing you mentioned is that yeah, while riding we will escape the base 54 so that if you had a plastic up against here and that falls so.

A

We said: try get fight from basics before right, yeah.

E

Is it there still a string because the Jason spec defines a string and so you're reading a token which is a spring I? Don't.

D

Know I mean I. Guess it's true is that the data, the token type has to be sure the distance? Yes, there is a string, it's just the other country.

A

Do we care that point? Oh because we don't have it anywhere else, but.

D

G

Base64 I don't know if they're adding the word string on the end. Yeah sorry.

B

Not that industry, because for the getstring api, as we had sang to me in got natural objects, so.

A

Let us try and get in 64 do when the current talk. We have the string, we don't decode. The string into it has to be number has to fit. So all the other ones effectively tied to the toka time. Everything.

D

A

That case I like that, seemed because otherwise it seems because I'm the writer, you basically say that the the major primitive is called basic support.

B

So you don't say.

A

If I get you in 54 number, yes.

B

A

Enough, in that case, it take it right, but.

E

If we did ever want to expand that your future to support the coding strings, because it's a fairly common operation for some types, then how we're going to differentiate, I don't.

A

Think you would, it would just say, like making more scenarios work, which I'm not a breaking change. You would just say today. We just two of the token type is not number. No, we would say if the token type is treating, let's try to parse it and then give you that thing back well, isn't.

E

It breaking if the person does if you've got, is someone who doesn't want to support anything, but a number and someone who wants to support both numbers and strings if.

B

That could be any option, do I mean or some other that's wrong. Alright, one thing is I end up throwing a bad operation if the base 54 string was invalid. To be true, for my exception, is.

C

D

I, don't remember what is the non try version of basic supported.

G

What do you mean, but we have the utf-8 base64 type Oh their weekend, it basically Yammer on busy cooking or.

B

On basics, before that's.

G

More consistent with.

B

The other, if you as we have they cry at you and thirty-two and stuff the altar for my exception, so I'm fine with that.

D

So I will say just so it gets said. Christophe would want to spend writing one. The problem is the tribe becomes ambiguous. So that's why we can okay good.

D

Fascinated why why do you think we can to spend because try and get bites from base64 that rights to a span would now need to return false? So this doesn't look like base64 wait. What are you returning pulse in the track?

D

If it's sorry get bytes is throwing chromatic section yeah, so try and get bytes that could write to a span. Is it returning false because the content isn't base64? Is it returning false because the spans too short, because you can't tell the difference it's not suitable for a try, API and we have no span a key? Is that we have no way of predicting the links I.

B

Mean we have the whole unit that you spend many can poverty if somebody wants to write doing custom. This is we.

A

Have a basis for decoder from spanner right, so you would just totally.

B

In this get the money spent yeah fasted into the art of escape.

G

B

Vinny did ESP yeah, but we have an API on there on this input that digs a you also. You.

E

Could also expose it as a prior that has a second out parameter, which says how many remaining characters are there to be ready, if any, which is how native api's do this? That's a we I believe we have never done that. Not this bad.

K

Thank this times much not to have anything that you have to know right of it right. So you have you.

B

Will have the by chicken.

K

And you that is also real good again, you could do it that fake, if you choose but like that I, don't know. If it's good, then we can also try to take that on there.

A

So what do you make encoding, though? The debate this bank gives you the quotes.

B

Around three well, so you have two unescape the thing before passing it to the message board. It.

G

Doesn't mean what what is keeping it thrown out. Somebody.

D

Could write every single character in the base64 is backslash you and then the ASCII value, particularly if it was whatever three byte sequence. I gave you that we will write down as escaped pluses, because we don't write plus as whether.

B

We have a spam based API to do the decoding, who do the I'm escaping yeah. You got beheaded, you're, adding it and that encoded it. Yet the.

A

Crisafulli once it is just ten lines of code, or is it like a hundred lines like that? Okay.

E

If are we just going to be calling convert to do the conversions here? No, we call the basically be on the opposite side. Space ones.

B

What things for the system buffers fast? Okay, because we don't want to call the string bass, it feels right the best fingers. You have nobody to give you a choice.

E

Well, we have a read-only spam one for two, but not for from.

L

The fact that you can all system buffers text top of your head, it's kind of ski.

G

D

Yesterday, yeah I guess that's true and I always feel like we are missing the one on convert that rights to expand and then I find it. It's just. Thank you.

D

It's there, okay, like when I give up and I write it another way. I didn't come across it.

L

E

I'll, try from yeah.

H

Come from the burbs, this one is done. Sweet, oh, that.

E

One has bytes written.

B

uh You may want to go to the next one, because that has both of them. This is cool to the bottom.

B

That's cool so I provided the existing api's and whenever you want to add so that it's easier to just see that what we're trying to do.

B

So the objective here is what so, that you can, as a reader or writer, there's no way for us to go and see lies an object from the reader writer today, the user would have to either ours the read past the reader to adjacent October, to create a free document and then do some other work and get the string out of that and pass that to us see Lazar, which is double the work.

B

Similarly, on the writer, the user would have to write who an array and then pass that to the C Lizer to realize here we just take into read and write at ease so that the user doesn't have to go through this double work or how to think these.

C

Cases are exceedingly common when writing converters right because you're, given a reader writer and you might need to work personally fallen to the serializer. Did you work right.

B

Effectively, this is aside from the gun. Where does which is there a hard requirement? The use case today is also based on performance, which is vehicles will end up, resulting in faster or four people, etc.

B

We have resistant api's, we have overdose for parts, it takes a span of byte string and we have two for writing as two bytes to string and write a single one of them takes the object. There are takes a return type. We follow the same thing here. You have two overloads on real value, one either and they are return type another generator.

B

Similarly, we have right value right as value overloads and right as property alerts and these match. That is the same JSON document and just an element abs for a few questions. One is parameter or drain in the case of the output sink, providing the right stream and the rider is not the first parameter, but for the input source and the stream or reader is the first parameter to be consistent across the board and or leaving the Raiders.

D

With Dana contracts, you realize it complain.

G

Is always the first breath.

B

Both 4010 right.

D

But I think that we're very yeah I don't know all across the board. Yeah on these things.

B

Yeah so awkward The, awkward gifts, if you have it in the middle, but in the import case we have it in the beginning.

D

Xml serializer as a verb to serialize that has one two three four five eight overloads that take the stream first and one that exits.

D

And then it's deserialize always has the street. What's.

A

Your concern like it's just the order is inconsistent yeah. Let me fix it.

B

Is it okay for because you're reading from the source and then writing into an object? Maybe it's fine to have a reader before and the right in the right case we write into octave saying, but the most important thing is the object. They'll be writing, so maybe the ordering is fine which it was concerned. I was brought up on I think we probably should settle on it.

B

So the problem with statics right.

L

Against these members, against the obvious.

I

Yeah I mean originally I think that the thinking was that your object and and the optional type parameter are more important. You know more pertinent and the stream or pipe writer or whatever you know, kind of ease, think think you're gonna write to so that's why they're first and why they're not first on the other one. Is this because they physically don't exist because that's the return value.

I

Of course you know in the parse on the read: async methods are aware, but I can see value, making a consistent with scream first, mostly in the case of if they ever wanted to have on this to be an extension method on that first parameter.

B

I mean as a precedence, decent Garnett has both read and write being that horse bamboo I.

E

Would I would expect.

E

An extension method we're just not exposing it and if you were doing like exposing this as the C API wrapper, that's the way and.

B

The same would apply to the stream overloaded, yeah yeah we're the same between first okay.

B

One thing, though, is to try to avoid breaking changes. I may not do this change or previous X, so we will be inconsistent in these AP and then going forward is update them a bit lately in terms of naming I, don't read value to match JSON documents, parts value.

G

D

Producers, JSON is an exception because I'm adding new API exception, I, don't know if you have a breaking exception, because people know.

B

Because you also have a you have study which most like even we have a very dangerous that fall to just making sure that I. If.

G

C

B

Is a problem we can do it now and absorb it right.

C

Now my only concern is that there's.

B

Multiple teams and if we breathe in now it.

C

Was like we need to go through chemo.

C

So he told and I'm happy about that write. An alternative I mean.

B

We already doing some Brittany changes, for example, we're making the CIA namespace choice- it's probably okay as well, but I just wanted to try to reduce them about Co change. People have to do. They especially is normally somewhat easy to well, maybe, relatively speaking,.

I

A

B

Through the all the uses of these api's and updating them, the.

A

Problem is usually not how hard to change as follows: just more how many teams have to accommodate change on how hard is it schedule.

B

The change, okay, so that's a question suppose around Reed value, as a name for cysts, that's read: you have read a sink that takes a stream that reads as much as possible from the stream the real value gets here. The reason why I read value is because the only already the next open, whether it be a straddle they can raise till the end. If you start off, they go strawberry or this primitive all in sales might get attention of motocross track, which is why I have the values of x there.

B

A

The existing ones- cars- don't entire input right. Yes,.

A

And we generally said parcels for string and readers for sightings, oh yeah,.

B

And the third question is around: we: should we have just right and a right API, or is it okay to fall over a different business and having right hands and you and writers property?

B

The main reason behind this is the user today does not have an API on the writer to write this to pop it in so this will be the only way for them to do so, and this is how the Jason Dufner api's dope, as well. So as far as suit.

B

Now, if and once we go to Iraq poverty, new API, we could just add a right overload. That takes a writer and writes the type and the user have to call the right property near 80 on the rider before forensic yeah.

C

Good university, apart more.

B

I'll finish you thanks, but okay, that's depending yeah.

B

What was the third thing. I was just typing notes. um We have right as value and writers property because we don't have mainly football and also we don't have a rider API that takes just the lesser user, just right, property name.

A

And you mean domestication goes for Perth. It.

B

Was we have a sort of corporatism relating yet? Why.

E

Right, it looks like all the other reader or the underwriter. If you guys are just right property.

B

This is floating to, instead of my right, ass baby eyes. You little element has right as property largest value. Okay,.

E

But the writer general he doesn't.

D

Well, those are you have the object and it does everything it wants in the object- and this is tell you how it's going to interact with the right engine. I do like the as there is a level of indirection. That's telling you how it's going to compose things.

L

A

What was right, as my party converted, but but you would oh really, is that the as value.

D

Is useful, as opposed to right, you know Jason, because I'm writing about its. What I'm writing it's like! No you're writing in the tailors as a value, instead of as a partner.

A

Maybe my brain just to me as long as like conversion is going on some herbage I, don't understand I.

D

Mean but if you want.

A

To get rid of the eyes here.

D

Then we would get rid of it. Yeah.

E

It looks like out of all the right eight guys we have to treat both the writer and the element, the elements, the only one that uses ads, and then we got three of them. Yeah.

L

E

The writer has a bunch of them like right, property, indented and all kind of stuff like that, and it never uses, as so, especially with these being using the writer. And if we're going to change it, to make the rider be the first element and if they were ever extension methods, then no, as could be the most consistent.

L

Though, is a right way to buy property.

G

One thing to note and put on me sending breaking changes is that they're meeting the 100 element I don't want exactly.

B

What you just to note is that this, these API stay against us realize their options and whenever there is a disagreement between the suggest you options and the options that are watching on the video writer, the reader idea. Options are honored, and why is the.

E

Reader writer, when it's it seems like at least logically, the normal cases that parameters passed in outweigh existing state in an object, but.

B

Leaders also benefit, so these are part of your even impossible, and because now they're passed have a seat as orphans.

G

Their construction options for the reader in the writer but you've already contracted.

A

Yeah I mean logically, what you want to do is you want to say the setting that is most local wins right right, if you, so if you basically have, if you think of the still are the options that global options and you think other divider is the thing that you instantiate it afterwards. It is more local than the role option.

A

Then you pass both in those arguments. You have to have some sort of saying tiebreaking, but like what else would you do if you would not as a reader writer settings, because that's the thing you're reading from or writing to write.

B

I alternate leave. You struck a new reader writer from the digital options and now that, just because proposed of why we taking yeah.

B

Why are we taking options all day? This is made primarily for converters because, generally that workers, the user past industry, has more options to us advisor and they have a custom order. So the governor would meet these options so that they get passed through yeah.

E

I think I guess it's confusing how the serializer options and the reader options interact with each other.

B

So all the reader options that are talked to they're good they between the reader often and she has a doctor's. The reader wins everything else. Thus you guys are off the phone.

D

Alternatively, we split.

D

I

The reader on that's passed in is gonna be obtained from a callback from within the converter, so it's gonna be the same reader that was instantiated with the original options anyway, at least some extensibility converter model.

I

So normally not an issue. I.

E

Understand that it's normally not an issue I'm just saying what conceptually I find it at least initially confusing that you would have serializer options and reader options overlap with each other and I hate. This we have. Some of them went out over the other, like there's a weird Union there that you wouldn't initially think of you.

E

That is a concern. Yes,.

B

Yeah I know Steve. Do you have anything about that? The fact that it still has options a union of options with the reader, I, dolphins and I? Don't.

C

Understand what the alternative could be like I'm, a serial Iser needs to give you control over that we turn our backs right.

E

I'm not sure I've got a good alternative, I'm just saying.

C

E

It's something that coming into this without having talked to the people who wrote it originally, it's probably going to be something that might be initially confusing or a pain point until people do understand it, and then, though, I mean come.

D

To rationalize stop should just say you know: Jason serializer, options max depth and whatever the other, we were three are that that invert third build the reader and writer are not respected, but.

B

If you scroll down this one mourn, it is that additional element has the night as pop the api's, but it doesn't take just an encoded text as overload. So just add that to because I raided after the time between.

L

B

Night, another ad.

B

Yeah, listen, I mean that'd, be our ideas. We didn't have to separate that then I'm going to go just like we're taxed. If we are again with some.

D

I remember the name of eating away.

D

L

Okay, alright, let me just quickly paste the stuff in and you guys can. We did over to make sure that I captured the thing accurately.

B

Probably the first, we wanna say billion right. Also, the progress of this tree.

L

Do you want to say, do you want to say the reader/writer the frozen.

D

L

D

B

D

That's dream: with a lowercase s, so I was using that to mean any sort of really lady, unique and I was talking about the other serializers.

L

A

So I encoded the whole thing as a type, so that is so. The type is called stream coma. Reader kamen rider with our comas thing.

B

Okay, we're making good time so I've actually thing.

L

Oh, let me just mess with the labels.

I

B

Because I do is combine, do you mean.

L

This guy, you yes.

L

L

Really confused by the amount of caps that I have.

A

Whose screens of the same information is actually not useful?.

A

Okay, that's the one. I wanted all right.

A

L

All right so we'll close it okay.

B

So the Sierra's are supports alternate types effectively like we have char by its uses, a spider short short, but the reader writer do not provide API. Is that let you get by there, a spider cetera, so we have getting ready to get n64, get string, etc. It's simply going right over you right in for you to insult you, but not these smaller numeric types and not chart.

B

So the proposal is to add all of them on the read and write get bike errors by getting 16. Can you insert a dry version of it also get child well.

A

I understand that the also consistency are gonna. Is anybody asking for them? Well, this is just we saw them in back well what we should have them so.

B

Effectively, the user I mean the scene. Hazard, DC Lazar ends up doing workarounds for this. When these stats are no special, they I don't see a reason why the other designers would have to work around it. I added their own length, Jets and their own validation.

A

Well, the same question for the sterilizer: is it just because we walk these tiles because they're having to be there or do we actually think people put them in their detail with.

B

A

B

In there and yeah, but not primitive dotnet types, if you don't have support for these videos, yeah.

E

Anyone who's wanting to like serializer, read or write a feel or property, which was a byte, is going to have to manually. Do checks.

E

C

Torrent encoder, not a single byte properties, yeah, it's not it's, not common, but it's very surprising if they're, not supportive right.

I

The serializer, for example, will have to check you know. Byte is within the range same for s byte and as short and the car one is particularly more difficult to work around because of allocations and performance, and things like that say that it's.

C

Not necessarily critical.

D

And really sterilizing your character be good, so I would honestly advocate that the serializer should not support serializing the type char, because it cannot represent the full range of char and it cannot. It can't write an unpaired surrogate and can't read and unpaired surrogate, so it's actually not doing what it says it's doing. Did it probably be really since that's going to.

E

Be our new permanent right for that anyways and the problem with supporting ruin, I'm saying it shouldn't support, chart.

A

Because back to take Ryan's point, though, what do people usually she lies right, probably not those characters right for the most part. If you would realize a char, it would see realize something that would fall in the range when you put it to my doing. I.

B

Mean for me this is likely low-hanging food and about polish innovation yeah. It sees the see surprising if you don't support it. It's.

A

The only person reason I'm asking is like I have no idea what the cost is, but the problem is like you know: we had this discussion many times over. Girl should be support us and was like. Oh okay, that's it was complicated. We don't know exactly what the policy should be right and all I'm saying is that if your arguments we should support the inbox sides. Well, that that is a you know, sizable you know said, and then the question is like is there? Some point is like this.

A

You know yeah, we have the time, but nobody ever calls them kind of situation right and then, like I, don't know the Holly move them per se is just.

B

The category of things we support are numeric types, you know having them like a view it, instead of all in USB port. We chose those this. You seem out ready to just get these one. These.

C

Always work there's work on the team either way, because, if they're not going to support like bike, I think.

E

There's also a difference between any internet type and the primitive types and potentially even between the primitive CLS compliant and primitive, non CLS compliant type. What it gives me, that's good, I, don't know bye. That's.

J

Not true one guy logged, an issue, I think.

K

You don't even need keyword.

J

E

J

Important sentence is.

E

I wouldn't say, keyword, types, I would say CLR primitive types, because decimal is one. That's still one of those questionable ones. Yeah.

A

But I think this goes back to like I, think I. Think Jeremy as a point. If you make a poll on the stream of the people, consider primitive types. It basically boils down to that. Yeah, like you know, a Rendel type that has no keyboard support. Well, that's the tire, but like I, don't care about things that have C sharp keywords. It's always surprised to be able to learn the decimal. It's not a primitive type. It's like what do you mean like it's primitive? No, it's not.

B

So one of the questions is like it makes sense to add them on the reader right, but on the rider the bite s bite short would just implicitly cost to int. Anyway, the only differences we have previously had the stands that whatever the reader can read, the writer should be bright, I'm, a sorcerer for completion. It doesn't.

D

Okay, well, when you, if you have a short and.

D

Jason writer dot right number you pass in the short it will compile up, convert it to an end, but it will compile the only.

B

Difference is the int writer beautiful form that is slightly slower than the smaller value ones. So if you were to do a direct format, small intimate values then faster than somebody.

C

B

Found it's an area where these things weren't really important. We could happen well.

D

And then yon would say, but how much did you blow your cash alignment by adding more instructions by having another method, any perf measurement any perfect gain? You would have gotten from having the right bite. You would have lost by having right right.

B

So far, we've had clarity with what we gonna be right. That's the reason why I have them so.

D

Honestly, my opinion is, we should maintain the parity and not do any of this well.

E

So no like it is a conversion is not the true for F sharp or you don't have implicit conversions and where you're going to have to have a buy overload for them to write de l'air, bytes single but yeah. If you have a bite, whatever I'll write, what about 16-bit integer does their version of short convert int? They happen, zero, implicit conversion and say I've got they've got some other primitive types. They do not have implicit conversion and they have literal support for both bite s, byte short and you short, literals right.

D

But like most of the places in the framework, we only take an end. We take a long and an int when we think both are suitable or someone you'll notice that they went along and we rarely take short anywhere, except for any.

E

Conversion api's and readers and writers, such as binary stream well.

D

Isis, like that, this binary stream, read short, is only advance at two bytes like that one has a there's a side effect of calling the wrong one of it. Read too much data I.

B

Don't see that much of this being costly and I think it's part of Polish and you see it hurts us I mean every.

D

Method, we add, is another yeah personally, like I am only in place. We have to maintain, but I.

A

Think any wines are even so holds like. What's what's the least surprising thing right and I get I think the naming is consistent with what we have I agree with the parity between media and minors. I would not a lot in physical inversions, especially because of other languages, and other languages really means F sharp yeah. It's really.

B

Not anything else, so a question for our tribe getchar. What are the semantics? Be we don't force or if it's not, if target.

C

Char is kind of an interesting one to Jeremy's point right like if char char is not not all char values are represented all right if.

B

It's surrogate Peter. What happens if it's think, okay.

E

A surrogate pair is not a char, it would.

B

Be a surrogate it.

I

E

String, you can only have a surrogate and you can read and write surrogates so that, but we can't read a surrogate. Why can't you read a surrogate as a character, it's invalid to have a string which have a single surrogate, but it's completely about to have a character which is right because that's my question of.

D

The payload for these types is utf-8. There are no surrogates and utf-8 it's a utf-16 specific concept. It literally cannot be I.

C

Mean you can also also just say if we felt like it's really important, we could say that we encode characters as.

I

I mean bottom line: somebody has a car property on your focal object, trade in and saying very spirited.

D

Short or you short yeah is actually probably the best answer. I I.

C

Wonder if that's what Jays now that does, let me wake up to an ass, so question: why is currently like 5:00 a.m. so.

B

What does the ride actually do it right single string with single get it yeah string code code.

G

Care to go or well backslash you as.

D

Soon, as it's outside the range of the similarly.

B

You have that reader inside the right side. What is their semantics of writing value is a single character. It is a string before chocolate or and what happens again if the child can do a survey there. I would sorry.

A

I think there's two options: you can either. Yes, what Jeremy said you just treat it as a sure you just encoded, sorry escape it and then they're concerned anything or you just well.

B

When you actually do that, if you, the user, says right string, value and passed in a surrogate character and then they call get string on the data they've written I guess you will fail because yeah sorry good character. Only it's not necessary yeah.

A

There's something you could you can either say yep you asked for that or you just throw when you look like that, because I think where you strangle throat.

D

Well, throw and say that the string was illegal in the camera on the wire, and that case you should throw for.

G

Right string with the right string, I believe, throws, if you give it an unpaired surrogate yeah but I'm saying if somebody right shake that even character, but.

A

He's made is saying if right.

D

String throws right charged with polio school like why? Would it not a right string value with the char, with a with a value where charges surrogate is true should throw it looks like that? A lot away. You said right string, this isn't a string. If you look the, but it's okay number could take a char overload of like yep I'll, totally write this chart out of the number it's a you. Torture, I'm.

C

In a bet that something like what you I'm gonna bet that Jason dotnet luck hasn't both of these behaviors and it probably falls back someone's the other.

B

Question about cragit chart if there is no string, is massing of character. Should we throw I'll see when you turn the first character? Look kinda talk well.

D

Try a charger, so it depends really if we're gonna we're going to read the first room and if it fits in a single char. Sorry, if we're going yeah we're going to read a rune and it was only one room and then we're gonna return, it get. It fits inside one utf-16 coat unit yeah and it would just fail. I, don't fall sick drinks too long, because it's it's like good. It's that it doesn't. Look like a charm look.

C

I'd like to get James's input before we make any like final decisions on this okay, I don't know, did you talk to him about it? I know, I wouldn't try to get any of. You should try to get his input on this as well. I also I think that treating character as an integer, instead of treating it as a one character string just raises far fewer questions about how it's actually going to behave and if the reason why we have this is so that we can define the serialization behavior.

C

That seems like that might be a reasonable way to define the serialization behavior exams, industry.

D

hmm We get at least J token writer, okay right into charcoals, not too strange adjacent.

I

Done that by D public treated as a string when you're right in I'm not sure if it allows in a journal and I, think really deep.

D

But I do agree that treating it as a number is the only honest representation we have since we're using utf-8.

B

um Okay, well, the question I had was around right string value where we take a bite that sayuki paid forgiven. Does that matter? Professionals you keep, it usually has variable then, and it could be about two for there to character. Pairs for charge is not hot as business like riding a string value where the user passes in one by utf-8, :.

D

They're, just any malformed utf-8 string is like you have right string that takes Rideau, expand, a fight that we call utf-8. Okay, we already. We already have that if you can have an illegal ring, either you're currently going or you're not, but the.

B

Question is like I know, we haven't yet says: right number takes a bite yeah, we do have a right string which takes a bite and wraps trees that bite as a string and like Rosen courts.

D

If we, if we had Chari pinch re, would be reasonable. But if I really don't think that we should put bite here as Chari, because that really really is.

D

It's easy enough to make a span of one and then call this fandom.

D

B

So, following up with James would be around the semantics of the idea and what it does I, don't think if I say again shape, though.

A

Well, the only thing that I might accept a effective e if we believe we can define saying behavior, which does not have the API but I think.

D

It's really that are one yeah.

A

I think if we would have I mean the question is: if this, if we say be right, Charles as numbers effectively, then well, that would be very weird and to call it, then you know right, but they see would call the API ran right number of of each other.

B

A

B

I think that that seems less valuable. You can just down cost or Target, or you shortened positive things. So you sort of here.

A

Which again goes back to maybe we don't have the API right so that I think the outcome. Might you know change the API shared in the better? We had the API together so.

E

By default, if you pass in a surrogate character to Jason convert, it emits a string which is a question they smoke yeah yeah for weeks.

C

So I want to get James's opinion because he might, he might he's, got a lot of experience with supporting actual users who's in Jason on that and so he'll he'll either say yeah. This has never come up like I did this because it seemed like the right thing to do and what to do for these invalid cases has honestly never come up or he'll, say yeah.

C

This took me a while to figure it out and I think this is the right, behavior or he'll, say yeah I really wish that I had done this differently, but I mean their.

B

Climate is coming down from theorizing ATAR in a book yeah.

C

I mean I, think I think the goal here should be: let's: let's try to have an unsurprising behavior for what happens if you have to do this, moisturizer I, like that that good thing that makes a lot of sense to me. I have to go to mine.

A

So basically, so the thing I wrote down right now is that char's, problematic, I think that you made just the case that full bite that might be similar right or what was that we.

D

Have the easy number it's.

A

E

D

Bite is pretending to be each our eat here. Well,.

E

And if we're going to sterilize room, that's going to have to be serialized is.

D

It an onus struck, a rune is always rabble to a valid room, which means it always has a legal utf-8 encoding all right. So it's a trap.

A

But not as this in a character, and it would be potentially multiple ones depends.

D

On what you like character, it might be multiple coding, it would probably get written down.

I

With an escaped you.

D

See us there, because that would be the shorter representation of something in that in the let.

A

Me rephrase if I, if I call read string what would length return. One always one. Oh I could return to.

D

His restrain gives you back chars, yes right all.

A

L

Let me paste this note in I. Think the only controversial one was the cha-cha-cha one, the other ones.

L

I will mark the API as.

L

Means work yep back to you.

L

All right and we're done with this one all.

A

Right thanks people online.