.Net Foundation Design Reviews, 19 Jan 2018

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From YouTube: .NET Design Reviews Awaiter APIs

Description

-01:00:-09 - Rejected: Change OwnedMemory(T) to IOwnedMemory(T) https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/26002#issuecomment-359105642
00:13:35 - Approved: Move Span.DangerousCreate to MemoryMarshal.Create https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/26139#issuecomment-359111438
00:38:14 - Approved: Move Span.NonPortableCast to MemoryMarshal and rename to Cast https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/26368#issuecomment-359109249

A

Activating screens.

B

You have nothing on my stream. I know which is nice. You, like it I.

A

C

It I have my own stuff.

B

Partial shield on earth, except.

B

Although mii-tachi.

D

E

B

Slowed it down on purpose, I intend to see them.

E

B

Work on the office make.

E

Sure you opt out of the class action super.

F

All there were.

G

H

I

Is my culture go be real? This hasn't gone through has.

B

Another job, yet we are kidding yeah I'm.

A

Also surprised- but maybe this all right, so let's go left right so first before we go to all the Turing api's, you want to spend half an hour.

J

Three work items validate.

B

Seating, well, let me motivate it so today.

B

We cannot like string, cannot be encouraged from Mount memory, so we had to inside memory of te we have to. We have an object field and we say like in table jek to feel this on memory then do something. If it's a string then do some. You know exactly same thing except now. We know that it's a string and so on and so on. We have like a basically because.

B

Then we realize that we will have more types in the future, so let's say we have utf-8 string now again, it cannot inherit from out memory. So we have to play that trick and Steve to ask me once like you know, should we just change the type to an interface now we can implement it on all these types may be the future event on array and string, and then we can simplify memory to be not a union type, but just has a field that is own memory order or nothing.

B

So that's the motivation that danger the danger is the following. The moment we make it any an interface. We cannot add members. So that's the only thing that makes me think that maybe it's not eight thirty Seconds.

K

Question is there anything. That's right now is not virtual code that will become rachel call as long as soon as you make it. An interface.

I

The type is an abstract base classes that your original.

K

I

Zero, if members are not virtual on a world.

L

I

Virtual yeah, but they are not interfaces, so that's yeah, that is all over from metal code yeah a virtual member dispatchers cheaper than an interface sure. But if it's not a virtual matter.

K

Ago then it's just the.

B

Only method that matters is gets fan this one is this one anyway, and it's well.

K

Then why didn't we make release rent and release virtual? We had like on zero references added, so it's virtual and they don't go so matters every time. Well,.

B

There were several implementations, so at some point, aunt Mary would Arthur Krantz, it actually had fields and then some basically, the lifetime management API is like the spoils and release, and these they were none 30:12.

B

Then we wanted to make it pure abstract here and I removed all the trees, and then every single member comes first well. Of course, we.

M

Have the whole memory like path? Do that yeah.

I

Normal at the next, what does it mean like retain or release a system.string instance? Oh cinnamon other provinces,.

B

In the highest place, not.

I

Because the contract.

B

Is if I call it retained? It's not going to disappear under e okay, which for strength, 3c ensures every.

N

Is not virtual, they call memory memory.

I

It must so this means systems framers now I dispensable. How would it not.

B

Yes, what we haven't shifted yet, but it's in core effects.

F

Only one memories: oh yeah: how is that not abstract? What does it do? Well,.

K

It creates an instance of memory with the owner, pointing to this okay. Oh that's! Why? Because, then, then get Spanish forwarded through the pin.

K

This pose is not zoonosis all.

B

Yeah same numbers, it's it has an OID I changes, his poly don't have disposable in I respect.

L

Brightener yeah.

O

M

You would extend a disposable.

K

Is retained is, would worship a simple base class. It won't sure we.

B

K

B

Memory alright quick decision, because we don't want to spend more than cyclase on it. I.

M

Can always be added in the future? What the interface.

A

Well, politics, chip in exchange type know: everybody declare themselves as taking I our own memory than the way we're taking high on memory. You.

P

Know it's particularly good.

M

Doesn't any interface.

C

M

B

We will just probably have a useless Facebook yeah.

A

That's the that's very good I mean, if you get mean I, would prefer the avoid chipping something that we don't think is the proper exchange that, because introducing that later is just noise, so it's like. If we don't think the type is video we don't want to do the work now then I mean we certainly can't ship it later. It's not anything a member. You would ask the air fit. That would so.

B

One thing that worries me about the existing pipe is we used to get the cookie it allowed old memory to be now all the memory cannot well.

H

I

Yes, why why do you want to be able to turn a string or an array into a memory, rather than just for stand out of it directly, because.

B

The memory is glue and span is not so if you can expand out of string, you cannot store information.

L

So I think I missed the part where you make the case for anything, that's recipes. You want to implement it on existing.

K

L

So what what other do? Some things are.

K

But there is hard-coded, it would never move to be I'm easy, a string not hit any.

M

K

M

It doesn't do the upstream has a spanning set so not anymore, not not that one too deep, okay, public hearing laughs, it's like oh yeah,.

K

mmm It's so much perf right. We gotta check if it well.

B

No, no to me I actually believe that the purchase knowledge, hey I, may be wrong and you may want to check it I believe in South addition, because of Africa. It's.

I

Everything like that is.

B

Like if you keep scrolling, you know get this final get memory like you la spec, so you cannot become that and let's not exaggerate, it's a visual method, call or interface, this much cool but like. If you don't do it often it's nothing. The main problem I have. Our main concern is that you not modify experiences. That is the only thing might be.

A

The density this is making that sense, assassin, the.

I

Runtime to the perfect: well, you can't really modify our track based classes either. You can remember, you can even add members, but it's like kids. We really want you to do so.

I

Can you and then you add, like a foo, that, instead of being abstract the base implementation, films.

A

I

Would be I would agree that it's not like you know, super.

A

Super simple but and the alternative this works well, I pull.

H

Memory too, yeah.

A

But they've basically can it. You have a TriCaster the defect of the undiscoverable like they like the active ability api on the base time, because there's still only one time did you ever have to know about there's only one fact ever costume, there's only one type to ever store, like I mean, there's a whole bunch of like videos but sitting it on one time. So I would say yes retro actively adding conceptually abstract things is hard, but like I, don't know what Halsey would do it.

A

You know short on the naming interfaces or our basic burning the old interfaces to ground and introducing a completely new one. It's just I'm thinking so, for example,.

B

Let's say we wanted to add a cooling support to this abstract class, so we would have to add method gets found that takes a is the thing like all the methods would have to have versions that they could write.

Q

B

Happens with with the versions that don't take like they are still there is, somebody can call them. What are the semantics method? The moment you call the methods that doesn't take it. This type would have to record it and say I'm, not volleyball anymore, like I'm Paula, Zahn, now, I, don't know the ID. I won't give you it anyway. So then.

B

Yeah, it would be best if we designed the interface and never had to add a new member to it. That was just not read right.

R

Correct yeah, then you get there. You can write yes, yeah that.

M

Words, if you have what a smaller small things that are on the map.

E

I can try get a read, I can retain it, release the.

K

Nausea we offer well. Why would we implement whether we would really encourage this new interface from pirate, a noble? What, if you want to represent an memory? That's not retain and right. I guess is that it's less discoverable that you have to guess to retain able, but maybe like, if you're, creating interfaces. Why not separate them.

S

G

S

Expanded memory every right, how would that work on string.

J

B

G

J

The same for um efficiency right.

K

Where's the thing.

E

Clearly, we need to rewrite no.

K

Matter right, even I possess what would come a little or matter if you created it from keep from your place, you can do whatever probably the same status.

B

So, by the way David you wanna send me email. You wanted this to be an interface to implement it on some existing networking sites. Although it was my memory at least list yeah, what I get is, what is the circuit suck? It has.

B

So it's not this one.

H

So we kill it. Yeah I promise a little bit all.

N

Right sounds good to me all right. I think we have to so happens.

A

N

The motivation, if you have you, give your string, then we have two subtype again for memory yeah. This will.

B

Because, basically, would leak you could just Thank You PFA exchange wrap it in this one forget about using memory. You just use this type as a backdoor to you. Take a string. Maybe each string.

L

So, basically, what you're saying basically either have to allocate only basic this is that what you're saying.

M

You need really only.

K

One memory: okay: we can help two interfaces, I own memory,.

K

E

K

E

But it was liver type before it was read-only buffers and butter.

T

E

We going to fork eggs, never the I, remember in us yeah, he shot.

R

I

R

M

Q

That time, inheritance in significant words word that I got yes yeah, but that not the state.

B

All right awesome, one of the cycle also for awesome to work our clean line up over here.

A

Movement renamed non-portable, cast memory, market cars, I love, this change so.

R

What you are going to ask your website's I know.

U

I still try got a scratch. Oh.

A

Nothing happened.

O

I think the web control on the backside do.

B

H

B

The back sides in the world everybody's.

M

Either served by HP Nets.

B

All right, so let me motivate this one.

B

Out moving the non-portable cast, Marshall and I never write this API and the reason I didn't like the API is I. Don't know how to use it correctly. So we have this API called non-political cast, which I don't know how to check whether I'm running in a particle context or not they'll check what does it mean so?

B

Okay? So now, let me explain the reason it's non-portable is that on some in some configurations or Center process or operating systems, and many like some configuration, you carry underlined memory, so you cannot read an int. You cannot treat, you know a twice or four bytes from arbitrary memory location. So you cannot cast an arbitrary Spano fights when place panel int, because then read on this in would attempt to read L it. It's not aligned, it would say, and it failed fails with basically each CPU fault. What.

K

What, if on platform that supports it? But it's like we have five bytes in this plan and then because it's pair of pins into lettuce,.

B

And it just course you know, is that device another line. It will fall on some some configurations. So that's why the method is called non-political.

V

Cast, could you copy architectures, where it's.

E

Aligned and not allowed oh yeah, yes,.

V

B

V

Everywhere, basically,.

B

There was discussion about moodiness and I said: I have two problems in general, API, first I, don't know when I need to know when it's safe when it's not safe and secondly, when it's not safe whatever. So.

B

Be nice if we had some check at least you could say: if I mean this universe, where I can cast it, then it works. Otherwise, I do something so when we don't know how to enjoy so. But there are cases we know it's a right, yeah.

E

H

It's like you know how your code is nearly deployed. Yeah.

E

Also, you can also make sure that whatever you're casting is aligned potentially yeah, the.

G

E

V

Has the same API right, unsavory NASA treat also locality from a t2.

A

Of both partners, but it's always say I- mean I made assuming that parents hierarchy matches what you know your cos is doing but sure, if the, if you casting.

B

From you into it, it will work to its so I guess yeah and if you do.

A

Something crazy, like you know,.

B

B

I, don't know like anyway, so there are sometimes it works. Sometimes it does in the point, is we don't have a test in the dress and and then it's even more complicated to what you do if you discover that the test doesn't pass right. So after some ideas, we came up with this signature. I propose that we have a test early on said. Well, why have a tester? Let's just try gas and then.

Q

Basically, the.

B

Implementation could be conservative because some of the tracks, where the memories alive, whether the CPU sayings there they may not be triggered to do so. We can do something initially conservative, like basically the method would end there and we'll say like it ended and yeah I.

E

Liked a lot like it reminds me a concurrent dictionary like where you there are ways easier in dictionary where you're triads try removes are going to work every time like yet still it's often enough doesn't work that it's worth putting it in the API to make sure people check.

K

E

What would a fuking else for most.

K

B

K

B

I'm sure that you crap is you can actually scroll to the part of my robotic example. Then, instead, like.

E

When you feel real, sorry addiction, you try.

T

B

T

B

K

Marine online, but it's an isomer.

C

E

C

Something you know we have.

E

The same about prediction.

B

Reverse right, so basically, you can copy to align memory.

M

I'm ready I mean.

E

It's unsafe, but it has the same. Keep a pattern unsafe and I see different can use couples like. Is there ever an ivory? Actually.

I

An alignment very.

E

Copy and lightly.

R

Lighting and well, this is a rating memory to.

I

E

B

Yeah so the align you go.

I

B

At me, like yeah, this.

I

One, doesn't anyone don't want it, because if you cast a hole back, the thing is that the cat? As far as the processor is concerned, the cast is successful because it's just a reinterpret its when you go to do retrospective so.

B

You know what one option is allocated buffer that is aligned any copy which, basically, you know, shifts the data to be aligned. Another option is you read one by one instead of casting to the whole path where you need one by one, and you want to choose which option you want, depending on what your scenario is like, if you really want to end up with you know very long buffer of ends. Well, you cannot read one by one.

B

Probably if you interested in first five, you probably read one by one. First.

K

Realigned, but for the first Center implemented if more drive cast of int by its cast realign.

B

As well but cast realigned, so we could do this. The problem is to be for the idea to non allocating, except that you can use markers from a pool and I cannot do normally.

C

We have to take well, and always people make it yeah, but you know where succeed by or you fail and.

K

Are out there like rail lines, would always I like it as we don't want allocating, but it's only for putting it into the else.

K

U

But it's like well yeah. What about second, the next um is that we can do this if the try gas fails, but it's pretty verbose, so questioning.

R

Whether we should just.

U

Have one cast and then do the if-else for them? No, then it.

A

Isn't might allocate yeah, you usually interest.

U

A

This discussion, more like I, mean I, don't know. Is there anything fundamentally wrong with the API as its proposals just inconvenient.

B

A

I mean it's always a.

B

Good point: it's basically, what we are now discussing is what you doing, there's which we can always fix late it like you, can re disco today, it's not super convenient. We can add the method that does it for you automatically whether it pulls or allocates about her.

B

Now, let's talk about the test first, which is try cast and I, think that so there are only two like trade-off between a tester and a to wear like a test, and this try is that tester and adware is a bit more performant if you, because you can do the test once and then, if you know that you kind of keep doing the same thing you can just cast without doing the track. This try would have to do the check every single time.

A

No, it's not because this is a generic method right.

B

It's accentuated.

A

For me, interrupt is make our hair with the same arguments or with similar, like that. The check is not depending on the Vedas, just depending on the tight, no hiding under.

B

The on the on their ballots, but.

K

What what if we put a pretender around some computers, each other.

F

Why don't you get.

N

It on vice yeah interested memo, because it's about a be underlined, another leadership, the.

A

Word but a check.

N

Would be that we on platform, the Co is this platform that yep.

K

If well, the check would not be that doesn't JIT know about runtime capabilities, but if it doesn't work, oh, it has to know sizes right, there's something of value, but wonders my right. This is allowed.

U

Jessica lee some steady.

A

Like using television.

E

As much intelligence that.

U

Takes to screw I mean there.

E

Was a you trust that you have.

H

Super loud to a compile-time.

B

H

Can check whether a hunter.

B

But, given that okay, so I think we should start with this, try cast it's potentially a bit slower than knowing that I have aligned memory and just calling cards, but you can always add effect like you can add that you know it's a performance, optimization performance, super small.

K

Well, what sugar would be wrong, sometimes like, if you're on the platform that doesn't support unaligned Gus, but your memory is a lot so yeah.

H

It was a concern for the checker with it.

K

Would be Kusa just check the intrinsic.

H

Yeah, it's just yeah or the architecture.

Q

But that's part yeah at that point. It's like you could also have a checker take an argument, but in my you.

B

Know I don't become yeah, but maybe what you're pointing out? Because they check in this method would have to be conservative.

B

You would lose the ability to say no I know my memories and I just cast it away inside.

K

Track ask it would be conservative, oh yeah, then we only have to check us so and the chip would be the same. Conservative churn, Intel really just is not Intel.

B

Q

And maybe check the point is nobody has.

E

The trike, the trike ass, which I think we all agree, is I, don't still check lengths right. Oh no it'll check a.

K

Lot awesome, so it's not that conservative as there just it's not just in I thought you.

S

Couldn't just check alignment because.

I

The memory could move.

S

By the GC that.

I

Gc will carry to my mind like so if you're.

S

Reading the second byte as an int, then right.

E

S

You see good again he's kind of guarantee. It's always underlined.

E

Exactly yeah yeah, so if it was underlined once the GC muted, it's not aligned again. Oh this.

B

Is actually so we untold me okay, I, discussed it with Jung Yun told me that what we what we just said it happens to be true on our current run, it's not! But what what is the? It is moved alignment.

W

Is reserved it has to be it's.

B

E

Distracted 40.

B

On it like how wouldn't work.

E

On those platforms, though, right like how would the runtime work on the platform as you care about yeah.

N

E

It couldn't because.

U

It's it's an aligned offset. Oh, let.

B

Me restate it: okay, all is about a vectorized operation. Tonight. Yes, that's dr. Royce operation. Yes,.

I

And I know they're.

B

On the or right or eight is that's.

I

Not yeah, that's why, when we do factorization, we always have to pin, because you see the GC only sees it as an array into.

D

I

World size, but a vector is 256 bits. Yes,.

B

Yes, therefore,.

I

B

You passed in two vectors, this okay, if you cast in two vectors, this won't be safe. Okay, bender can say this cause. I think underlined. Vectorized reads: I always wrote in every fault, correct.

I

We kind of it's okay, but the thing is like try cast, could fail if you're casting to a vector around, because there's no guarantee that what you're bringing in is actually no.

B

Because we will check machine world alignment and if it's not aligned on vectorized size, then we will just check new parts. But does that mean.

I

That we're now special casing vector as a type no.

B

It's not it's actually, not special. This method will just check machine world alignment, that's all so vectorized cast would pass and potentially just be slower, and it's only slower supposedly like all their processors and on the mutant, I guess.

W

That's for what about.

I

What about more, Intel processors, yeah.

B

Okay, so what is the conclusion? Let's do it? Try cast.

B

Unless issues with it, we can always add, cast like I know what I'm doing discussed you.

K

Can implement it by try casting the machine aligned like just by making up some memory and storing the result? If you wanted boo to now, because this method check a stiff, it's reinforced, it doesn't ask for it yeah, but you can do the checker thing on your own, like try casting something that you pre-allocated and storing the whaler yeah. Then.

I

Put the dangerous cast on the unsafe class.

N

Or something like that, so right now for areas where we used operator cast, we know that it's fine to use. Do we just do. Try casts I ignore the output. How do we know that it's fine to use I, don't really notice right now, use it all over the place and ketones to anything. Video.

P

We need to go on.

N

I'm sure added else or do we just ignore the out the return value of Krakow grants, update.

B

Not good sorry good feel.

H

B

That naive implementation just allocate an array is throw like code. That's why I said really about realized. There.

N

Are so many places now everyone who uses API would have to have this test case. This is the hope not.

A

So then, can you say what you, what you just told me on I am like I, don't hear what you're saying.

S

The method shouldn't be static because it's in a non-static class, oh yeah,.

A

Marshall study sorry.

S

It shouldn't be an extension running over.

I

Sir astray, this somewhere, oh I,.

J

J

S

K

From extension to another extension, do you want to.

O

B

Could argue if you don't see Marshall and the court say I, don't know. Why are we lighting it to memory? Marshall? Sorry, I missed it. Now it's completely safe methods. It shouldn't be on memory Marshall, okay, let's try cast yes, yeah.

N

ah Not moving it'd be just so buffer extensions.

B

Remember extensions.

B

A

Change it to try.

B

Such that, it's not you know it basically doesn't do their own thing.

H

Well, this one, like you, know, tells you yeah. Now you.

I

Know I: don't because really batteries yeah.

D

I

In the else case is we start chopping off individual bites into, and then we do the vector rest operation, because no but I mean we have this check right now, like in the collar before it even gets to this. Oh yeah.

I

Is it in things like in api's like and that's how they pin the memory reference by the span to make sure that it doesn't move around? Then the check is re? U vector aligned if not just look at individual bytes and are.

X

G

I

T

So you're not saying the expensive you can do unaligned vectorized operation may not.

N

I

Sense, no but I think that's the scenario with the stuff of used.

I

B

Interesting, you know this goal would get slower because it would do the check twice.

B

K

Why why why, if you can just try, cast it in the beginning so and do the because.

B

This felt a sport and it's more clever instead of trying to, in the else to align it trims. First, two bytes yeah.

K

I

Can trim but oh and to get actually the way that the code works right now? Is it calculates exactly how many bytes in Institute or.

K

Even we need non chicken version, Marshall.

T

M

T

Just checks, processor engines lizard- is that Pat being passed a value.

I

Roughly, how do we, what there's, no there's, no instruction for getting the alignment of a Brandon shrunk? No, we just defined that just by eight and think that it was zoom. So you assume enter a fight. A lot, yes seems.

F

That it's exactly the check that we do. But in.

T

This is Eli South not like.

I

That that seems like way, what's the assumption, so we find the the assumption is if I want to know that my understand I'm going to get back would be aligned if it were to be returned to me. How do I know what the align of T result is because, unlike size' so herself, you were saying we just assumed after ourselves.

B

Well, we just assumed night do what you asked I'm saying the only I, the only way I know track. Alignment today is have the actual number between T.

W

I

I got T right, you need to know the type of to you so that you can get the align and that's the time you need to the actual, the actual, the actual, underlying pull, even unity in the sense of different.

O

Alignment, so you know you, but you don't have to knowledge, just know your tra just get the others in the array just like that, because this is already yeah we're.

E

We're the check is the question: is the check taking actual object or not so.

I

It might have square his privacy I want to get back. His band of also see an organism to finish here at all. I can ask him.

B

So are we reading to basically the regular costume, so we can be performant, you make it.

D

And some that is.

B

Yes and the existing code doesn't change, so we don't have to I find so what do they mean? It is basically we load them all. We remove the on multiple cast to memory Marshall, it's unsafe, to check your alignment yourself, but then we just let you cast and great provide life. You know it's a live example and.

Q

B

We have this method for people who much ceremony about checking the environment, and it's fast enough. I would never use them that the other one too lazy program is supposed to programmers allies.

V

Strange bird, how dangerous non-portable these so we use dangerous to mean it can crash. Then.

N

Engine, if you has a movie too many, washes every movie.

T

The business, so this is a rule guillotine for all VCL if you guys that take arbitrary spans and use this.

Q

Form of casting that has to use the dry cast with the check well,.

B

Or like the factorized operations, they want to be super smart. They do some other tricks. So then suggest uncheck cut unchecked.

A

Check to me implies overflow, but like which is not nothing where it'll be here.

B

A

Also, uncheck means it will work.

B

T

Where is this itself fails? Yeah, it's more unsafe.

E

So they're checked they only.

U

Undress attack.

E

Me well whatever.

U

A

On kids and save.

E

Dog cats I'll take a.

Q

Doctor could have dispensed yet.

E

Where's that run that.

H

Is that these, but plus yeah what I open the same region.

E

Dollars were cast.

B

Not in that we have assemblies one school system and then.

M

One is just a memory.

B

They cannot have super depends. Okay,.

M

I, don't know why we would need to rely.

W

B

Let's just memory marshal and I: don't care what the name is on you know, non-portable, caste or caste or and what do you want? I work at anything class? It sounds.

K

To say on the unti on every.

M

K

Doesn't doesn't say that.

H

A

Here's all the other station stuff for me.

M

A

I think is no not for spending there's much more stuff on. It is a huge span. I mean today, there's no.

Q

M

Yeah Marshall not unzip, saying I, don't look opposing it. The proton that I just proposed it to I didn't say, but isn't that tight that does not type represent on safe operations. Darrell's.

T

Not partial yeah not.

E

All of the API.

I

Service and sizes.

E

T

It represents this all of your methods.

E

Are if you're here then, if you're here here, the redirect yeah so reinterpret cat Levi is more like unsafe as right. Sorry, what unsafe dot as it is like for the single element version. This is for, like the collection version.

U

W

I just want to make.

U

A call she's just.

H

As good today, there's a.

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H

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Memory Marshall has made a very much like we already.

I

Every night of have an overload of unsafe as it takes expandable. Yes,.

A

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Circle reference a circle order, if the thing, if you actually.

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Much spend depends on.

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It shows a yes other.

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You know did Isis what we call it after the cat, I.

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Them are you consistent. You should call oh yeah.

B

Ss chose the name so I can ask you like they've.

A

Been waiting all the name, I said cast and rusted us all right, I just wrote it up. I'm done all right so much for a time. Boxing moves fan dangerous.

T

And you just got.

E

Pushed up what yeah, how does Destin that we should remove the object? Overload? Oh yeah, the object parameter its owner that they bought another anagram yeah, oh they're,.

I

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B

Have the bottom of the list isn't metric.

I

Wired for long course, it.

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A dangerous difficult, oh yeah,.

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At the bottom there's a new, it was using that a Brussels couple of times. We should call it even more dangerous.

M

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Doing correctly, you guys know I.

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Did the sort of pure everyone everything.

U

I

Well, yeah I was like that's it, so would it just throw on Bob or frameworks hey? What is nearly the activity God wanting at the F word that works.

K

So what was it, what does it usually used.

M

For super well, two things in it have any type checks or HS altered. There's.

K

A bump test, no it's like at unsafe to move together, pointer, address.

E

It's also used when you have a thing argument up a little bit more crisp and for my head.

K

E

K

E

K

Argument argument, so it seems so.

H

M

As you don't have an object, what all you have it arrived? They tried it, they complete compiled and the test is fast.

U

Yeah pretty much and anyway.

E

This guy to get her research to develop to the calendar scanner.

A

We have an overload this that accepts it we'd only wrap.

A

What is it where we only span? Should we have an overload that accepts that we'd only spare that that it, except to be only ref, because, right now, if you'll either be only ref, you're screwed, we kind of have an overlord. We would have to change this method. I.

K

A

L

K

Of different by the modificators on no deck.

A

Much like is it in what they call this other. The only network you know give me a little based on that.

N

And otherwise you would have all the unserious also.

O

Be read-only which you don't have but the other question: if I have a rep I can call it back the TechSoup. You don't remember right so.

A

Why don't we just change the method to just take it? It only we're supposed to make an enroll, because.

N

O

Doesn't take a real here, but the implementation can do what you just said. But what about what? The call has to do that the implementation would remove. The read-only I have internal okay.

B

What about we write this, a whoever does the change, they should try read-only refereed, AMI and if it works awesome, if it doesn't work, then.

B

Then the don't make it read on here and.

D

B

It's not read on graphics, referee, Dominic, right, it's him yeah yeah! Now it's complete yeah, exactly.

N

In an otherwise epic field, but only for the really spend version.

A

Well, the first one will be: a mistakes are accepted only one, because you create a provider like that will be that the thing.

I

I don't like about is in a channel. That means that's.

O

I

It compiles cleanly and then holds.

I

Most cleanly and then at some future what you get in a v8 that lethal to be moving on fat y-yeah, because the the Kochan will look like I'll move. The constant 42 into like EAX called this method. Passing like the address of the ax. You get back down.

W

And give it a roll.

W

N

Second, yeah.

I

Yeah but the ax is going to change the theater no collar, basically like it at least forcing the collar to make to actually explicitly write. Graphic also means the collar has to make sure that that variable lives both before and after the mountain college and Rosario, and then have it just from a jacket in that situation. So we just use reference Center from the headlands and it'll, be the sole.

A

All right, so this is no the threading thing we have an hour left.

E

Visitor we had a whole discussion about this me Stephanie Powell in the cafeteria at lunch. I would think we should probably spell this type like wine specifically since to me, everything else is kind of has bigger implications. That kind of makes it less of an issue too. So.

B

I would it's an option she considered it yeah, but it may have been an exhibit of a cop-out and I never thought if I understand. Why, like what's the problem with the site, so Steve sent some anyway. It's not even here.

V

For these sites, but I wonder what.

E

It is on on other individual to anyone stuffy part of our the end-to-end story, so sauces.

A

I, don't think that works and.

Q

L

A

We can ship a Visia, primitive in a different assembly and a different thing just because the person who wants a good feedback happens to be unavailable like that. That's either we don't ship the time at all, I'll be shipping the right way or post that it's not.

K

That kick has good work as understanding that we don't and the.

E

Thing is like I think that in a waiter site you know like a resettable past or whatever like has value, is like an exchange type and so forth, but it doesn't need to be used by pipelines. That's the question is the risk is that we will have a one-off type. That is the biggest risk. If we don't do this generic type right now, okay, but.

L

Let's say the Shiva the problem according to what the problem, because, if you don't put it in the public API somebody don't panic button exactly.

A

So there, but then you have the solid.

L

A

L

People into artworks, I call.

A

Them by making it a one-off type like it seems else it is you want like and.

E

Now you're saying that's: it existed to 3x, okay, okay, so.

A

What's the risk than doing it properly in a CL.

G

Yeah, we may be bad with Cynthia and we missed something and.

A

It becomes an enthalpy attraction, but the Digi I mean from what I've seen on the email like he gave some targeted. You know there wasn't like absolutely cannot do the time beautiful, okay,.

A

B

Which problems example.

K

He wants I scheduler of teeth. Okay, let's start with we're, not really I'm glad.

B

K

Like uh so, it used to be a scheduler. The reason we changed it is we wanna.

B

K

Scheduler of T that's the parts. The T is the first candidate.

E

H

I, don't care about our.

K

Scheduler tea ice cream and you're running T, so they're.

B

All type the D is the object in action. Yeah.

G

And there's this pooled up.

E

And yeah, so why.

G

E

Wanted I don't think it makes sense, because the color is the prison. College schedule is the one that actually passes the object most.

K

Of the time it will be object. Yeah. It's mostly object, and this point is that well then, so ever in, like looking looking collection see, you can like give me a register code book that I'll call you with. If something happens or can't listed, it's.

E

H

Use of the schedule a class, the.

E

Ice Catalina.

B

Okay, so we have discussed this a bit more, so an interface this one that is the other one, any others that you feel like a blocking. It was never implemented on.

K

H

Okay, so which one are scheduled: oh I have a thing for that: I wrote a whole thing. That's.

E

Super good, okay, put it right, go to the corporate lab and I have scenarios where you would use this very. It would really be on the VCL.

K

Fights yeah where it would be, but I'm not saying that it might not be said and I say.

E

K

They work to see the billing hands-free sure.

K

Interfaces until two hours ago, garance to.

M

K

M

Schedule it sorry on for effect on my lab I'm.

K

G

Is this a sink position context, but that's made to be put in my static kind of this.

M

One year, this exchange type I want.

E

So, let's kinda API before we change tune-up try base class and it basically has a bunch of places that kind of would turn into schedulers today so spread. Pool cues work item is an example. Basically any place. That has a call back. You can pass it good. Passing one needs to get coop on that scheduler, so I have a bunch of this is where.

M

B

Do we believe that it's not doable to implement.

K

It is because, because we don't have time to do this, have to agree. Oh, it's not doable in time constraints, I think Google people just have to.

M

Agree telling a make that okay so who doesn't agree that very I mean Steven Sasson feedback about this specific API days and I'm, not blocking.

E

Or not, I mean it seems like he wants.

Q

To use it for actual, like you would yeah we have like, but we ever really that way, but yeah it pretty much exactly the same thing. Yeah. The biggest difference is that we rely on the basically async continuation to carry all the state for what would normally be like the.

E

Call yeah, so we don't have to deal with blowing states all facing in closer, even if.

G

T

See what it does you mad much to.

G

The interface, precise oddity and.

T

To be fine, we do mint I, scheduler I scheduler of object and then call it a day for the pipe itself right.

B

So what what is the estimate cost of implementing this on? You know, thread, pool and few other places well, I think we need.

A

To do it, justice I think we need more coverage. Make the scheduler is an implementation. Your Papa will do this later. Nothing bad happens in your API service. That's there! No, it's not her! Why we.

K

Can take another schedule or aspiring.

H

K

Into our scheduler, no yeah good Robert yeah.

E

H

Will run this in your in this? We.

E

Need to make a wrap we'd have to because you basically have to use the new status.

G

If you're in Italy Bali, it could be annoying elderly with regular. No, huh what but.

M

Different evening.

K

M

Want you to wrap it.

K

Really does I don't want to have to types. So what better have two types will have? We add another overload to pipe options that are purpose that this thing is not have yet we would have what target emperors and go up so with the other one. No.

B

And then you end up with more namespace.

A

You a bunch of.

B

A

Types yeah, what its are able to say. If you, you cannot hide it. I thought it's destiny, open a friend.

Q

A

An argument, then it's the same as the waiter and Emma should fix it now, like yeah.

Q

Otherwise, it's like a sense, if you don't ship the eye, scheduler.

E

With pipelines probably should be any new yeah well in will add the you know: you're I cannot be and really implemented. Okay,.

G

E

Kind of in look, you know it can like I'm, saying the way to configure pipeline scheduling community. We can then end up in the future, supporting and how the hell would you use it and kiss so whether.

K

You have your own implementation of schedule a to begin here.

E

Like my plans yet actually like us would choose one.

H

Of our recommendations, you.

E

Want to provide your like, that's got it so I.

K

Should know implementation into.

E

K

Lawyer into pipelines, Academy seekers we can put in to enter into inner unsafe custody back yeah I see.

E

We can look at where we think it will be admitted another house, that's.

Q

E

Point like we can't just delete because I know why I get why I understand like there's things we could do. We.

K

Can make it a target, told them exactly.

L

K

J

Forum, Thank You, fury I, don't.

E

Like that, should we go over late, what it does or wherever the user Vikon are elements of you decide. You want to do I. Think it's useful I found about forever ago before pipeline usually happen. Yeah the VCL needs us I. Think is.

M

Reasonable should.

B

Be done well and what I'm going to see the trendsetter? He said, change it to an interface implemented on food, and it's all good and he's allowed might actually know.

H

K

Remove certain schedule, method and editing in a showdown.

B

Let's separate them, the kind of locking feedback from the you know. I would prefer that that happen. So what's the cost of implementing it on.

K

No I never implemented things on the thread pool. So you never know it looks like it.

E

Looks a loop right, I mean.

K

We have our own revelation.

E

We have a wrapper.

K

For thread pools course not methods, it doesn't like do cues and things that what do you mean, though? That's what, if it'd be unfair to right same thing,.

A

It's as easy, so let's separate cost and like who's doing the work from. Is there any substantial to pick on the API, like I mean we can get Eric or somebody else to do it every day. This is right thing that you believe is the wrong thing. Then it doesn't matter what it costs is naming Steve.

E

Wanted I option scheduler I think he that.

T

Was too generic I got a dictionary, I, don't know how I mean sure.

A

I suppose, although I would I could like it's reading in a space, I mean I cut this only so many definitions over the scheduler in the funny condition to do it, but.

G

A

E

I think name is the name was fine, but I think there is because I had scheduled with action. I think he thought it was too generic, but I. Think after going through a bunch of round I think he thought I was fine, then he said: okay, let's call it. I actually bring tea. Crystals just propose to type called index for the.

R

Lucy, that's.

T

Q

You know, like I, know, you're thinking about wrapping the lager, but he can only special case. I mean.

L

We're eating such seemed like.

Q

N

It was already.

Q

K

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K

One at Central I got this is the suspects single argument to roughly.

L

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Of it was done as a question right we get to.

L

Press and I will.

K

Q

L

Is uneasy can address all right? You.

Q

L

Q

Closure to various.

L

H

Logger to tap the back, yes, and then it was like the other. Can you see my sleeper that's kind, but you have to have a media to delegate.

T

To take some like.

E

You gather action yeah, but.

T

That unit ethically.

E

Already but at the end, what you don't.

T

Get external you may already have it.

E

Yeah I'm saying he wasn't against.

T

H

It because in states in a medium, what I would do is I would suggest what we.

A

Should be doing, Seibert make a proposal again because.

F

It's obvious on you: wanna cook I mean.

O

He does weekend video, okay, okay, we're.

A

Talking to because I mean to media alternatives, I see not doing the designer type at all and just putting it it's something that he happens to own Italy. That seems like way worse, in my opinion,.

F

B

I think it makes my plans to Monaco. So if these types are they implemented like, firstly, people learn how they work. Then they approach five times. Oh my god. This is a method, and it just it is one of these times. I know what it does. Business orgies is sound like you, a sick model on my pants I, let my trousers I mean the only other option.

A

And it seems like, if you don't have all the rules there.

H

Ain't, a single to get only about the Dutch market.

A

Because you need it for so.

B

Many things that you're awake and so what about so we can go back to the Catalan. What about the Iowa turn everything we need destruct or just the interface but like.

M

If you have to overdose but can I call a single candidate with the objects and it's time to go to the forum, so you mean return.

T

Annihilator of yours on an island.

Q

Or a result: separation.

T

N

M

Think we could be happy because.

K

Basically, little bomb so this this. This interface cannot implement I critical aspect completion if we want to implement multiple such interfaces on.

E

K

What we had to.

E

In the first minute, so you can always pre-allocate like here, but.

K

Not yeah not when we're moving to observe classes, we don't care about.

E

Well, it's similar because you can't have that many share. This is the theater.

Q

Classes, it's only two objects for each. Is it no.

K

No, but we are moving to upstair classes, can fight, seems.

B

Like there's going to be three up to expiry objects, leader and right, okay will read a sink and the writer would implement slash Lisa pass.

K

Something if we have another present, each of them will get the same quest is.

E

It and I await your earth and Iowa table what we are so I didn't get I. Don't think that problem is that huge by the way like that, you can't.

Q

I think I, like that, it's fine, it's like one object per waiter, will doesn't seem terrible, especially accessory cellphones.

K

You can use it yeah, so what do we receive? A return from getaway.

T

I weighed a bull on profit right. It's what freedom operator, yeah.

K

This minor I'm just.

E

Saying I'm talking about into.

K

This right now we return I weather it so like it's, both a waiter and I wearable right, but it seems kind of redundant what empty. What if T is I miss one two three.

E

E

Alright, let's definitely interface go to the end. If it's we can reprint our brains, so we today return up. Call you later from read a sink I'm, a said great.

G

Implementing an abyss is required to do get a waiter.

K

Little while on the pipe hi weather is the thing we're reaching is the yeah it's very forward course, and if it wasn't for them on dependency, we could just return a way. Sir, no.

B

But you implement two different I waiters. You implement, I, await or flush result and I wager.

K

Okay, that's all the time yeah, but I meant ammonia, but both of them in heard from my criticals, have notified completion them. It's a single method. It has to be tiered object.

K

Personalty, where that to distinguish between which one is is completely don't get resolved, is hired. Why doing it I could call notify completion. You have this interface.

B

V

Can tell of the sea shark Impala diversity later is what you actually did telling me on. It doesn't look at.

B

The pattern that work, so basically what I'm saying is, instead of implementing the interface just copy the methods to I, don't.

Q

Know it does your.

E

Voice sure the actual interface it does. These are there some things that are just by structure like get away tur, but I really don't know guy position, not that how about a state machine this.

Q

Is actually called some room is that's.

A

A bummer so you're saying you basically two kinds of the of ta waiters. One wasn't one without the I critical one. If accomplishing.

F

What is deep until table is in a bit.

E

He has specific key becca-boo, no.

A

Here's everybody asks for heading in right that yeah well.

E

He so he want to Adam. We.

A

Also have some feedback about boy says he says the reverse I'm, not sure how that example is about needing value. Wetter seem to suggest that ayah, later aya weather of T should inherit actually commodify completion or I notify completion and.

A

Further, though, the video better you're using has a getaway to method on it, which means it's not just in a way that, but also in a way to book.

A

Even if we did ship evaluator I, don't believe we'd wanted to also be an available, which means you methods like Vijay Singh. The currently returned evaluator should instead return at your own custom struct. These way, why.

Q

A

On what you, in early the.

Q

E

Going to doing through it room because.

Q

Every time I've ever implemented an amiable thing, I put.

E

A waiter and label on the same object because, like why create another but they're split for some reason: yeah I think there has to be reason. I just want to give those explains that you mean in general, yeah yeah, yeah I mean there's.

Q

The configure awaited.

E

Su can make arbitrary think of it like.

G

They don't, you can be.

K

K

T

Oh wait: random ain't, my attic ever it ain't the United so.

K

T

Q

Have been also really.

K

Like an Iowa to.

Q

Collaborate such a thing: what is.

K

To implement a Creek on her completion, what what part needs to implement a critical entire competition await are available. Little I read a book me.

G

I think you, with their old.

K

Don't even know what those two extra classes for either in writer, then we don't have any very have an issue. We know that we would want to add more in async, like methods to every side, so work yeah. The thing I'd talk to you about in the were like real, with a way to read. There starts on the writer side. We'd like is that was like.

E

U

W

Y

Of the TV s, packets and then for the tedious packets inside and without can't being able to cancel out of band, it would be like impossible to write.

E

But if you could cancel but it, but it had to be throwing.

H

X

I've got an exception for the problem.

H

M

H

M

G

Yeah, if you could patent the Tilton and then have it trigger, and then you check that you take the token afterwards it of getting notified.

T

It's risky as hell, but.

T

To you create the token and you.

X

G

Api, it's written.

Y

M

Token itself, oh.

B

You pass it to me and then you check the token whether it was canceled but.

J

We never throw is.

B

E

B

E

Talking to read is really bad.

T

Because it requires.

E

Registering oh I.

B

Don't know is that our our things, cancellation.

E

And plastic, but that's mostly so we can implement stream well, it influences the way cancellation, it's very tropical that one actually will throw which one whoo. So the cancellation we're talking about is for the reader to cancel it similar, but it will grow when it cancels and it's less efficient because you have to register like there's some optimization talking.

B

Loads of they say one takes the talking white one dot, the one that takes the talking works like that normal.

D

B

And they want a doesn't.

E

We don't come rollin.

K

Hot no you're already.

E

Pulling well, it's like you're already in.

K

A rebooted afterwards yeah so.

E

There's no polling going on in second home and, secondly, the they're, not mutually exclusive they're, two orthogonal futures really and they can work together. I didn't before I mean my costume check, but the point is they're orthogonal you can have both like you can use the cancel pending agreed with the cancellation token like that work.

B

Solve this problem, you always find a solution, but it doesn't.

E

Q

E

You happy, you have to register every time you.

W

E

Efficient take.

W

A call back inside.

E

Read async, you have to call cancellation talking about register if it's not already cancelled or not the default or something. If it's is cancelable and isn't cancelled, you have to registry, it's a callback.

K

Every time there's a coma here.

E

M

K

Callback but I know this is when you have to reduce literals.

M

We need to generate.

K

Education yeah that concessions, okay, goodnight.

B

Why don't you fall.

H

Well, whenever you have a place, we.

E

H

To be triggered, there is no there's, no, the trigger is now.

E

Calling cancel pain is there's no loop because using underneath, like.

M

E

G

E

G

E

Have to have a call back so we can set internal state. So we can use our wait mind you we're not.

K

Actually, if we don't do anything inside what there is no loop inside, but we just like to call, but it's being called yeah when you when something happens from other side, if there is no external input, my.

E

Mind you that there's a liberation token that we're taking releasing we're not like handing it off to a stream or anything at.

K

D

Case like this is.

E

So we can implement an abstract stream type using pipelines like anyth. All it is is we want to trigger it a register, a tweeter callback whenever that triggers yeah we're ready, we're subscribing to the cancellation of there's a slight optimization if you use the same token a lot, but yes, you have to Alec in token whatever that fires. So it's kind of kind of wonky everything's allocating in that like namespace, starting to sleep so.

B

Okay, so in the case, when is a somebody calls the myth of the thousand possible cancellation token, they go disk and sent back so.

E

They can call this canceled method either way by the way it has nothing. Does this methyl group, so what it does is it guarantees that read async returns, how.

B

Does it do that this must be like? There must be some it.

E

B

E

A callback it schedules, the completion of the available for the relateable.

E

An sets the cancelled leg, I guess someone called flush police, a pool, you saying is canceled before exactly like something Polly plush, but it's the reader calling it without any data, and it sets a special flag. Yeah.

M

E

With always yeah, which I mean flushes, that safe relative to the read operation right, so that's kind of the say, I didn't make sure that that somebody observed the fly before resetting it. Well, it makes sure that we return to read result with the bit apply to area there's no like property getter, which is later.

B

This we add metal pencil to the engine and we add metal pencil to value us. No.

E

At this is seems to be above via wiener there's Castle Syrians, like I, know, Castle I would not like I get that there's kind of this correlation between tasks and I wave will exceed and like we kind of want to bring them together with this cancellation concept. But I will to you so much simpler tasks like don't bring cancellation into it. The problem with this.

C

What I just said is now we have to pass that the task this.

B

Attend to some variable.

K

E

By Utah Scott Patti's canceled on it, but it doesn't mean what it means for tasks is canceled. Of course,.

D

The back same, like it's similar.

J

Similar enough.

E

Its resettling resettle tasks even.

K

Kissed a see: how do we expose us through our I widowed, so it consider abilities.

H

K

Is below no no I mean Castle ability is a new feature of I waiter, then yeah, because it's a sink operation. You cannot return canceled immediately. You have to return cancellation as a result in uncompleted, when you call on completed combat it's part of result that you said after oh yeah, no, there you go racing. Rightly thank you. Come by register. You come back and then is check. Where do get is canceled.

H

We have you got set on our on our interstate, say, yeah, be read exactly so: it's the I wear yeah.

E

Well, it can be on the result, but I think it's better on AIA later I am convinced there's over like on oh, not not if you want to put it directly on yeah you're right so to the point where we care about a not CIO inner, then they really just like today right, it's not read result or whatever. We just look to be the T in the IOA turret see yeah yeah, but you're saying just move it up because, like you know that they were saying, let's put it on another task, but.

K

If you're putting those nice.

E

Okay, elevator.

K

We have to put it on yeah.

E

K

Reaching through, like yeah.

E

C

E

Cut up I think we.

C

Put it on the engine.

S

C

S

Kill us before it's canceled and you can't it's more immutable straps something far off and the async can't change that reference that you've got already so.

B

It's a it wouldn't change the reference. The panel does you've just gone into the interface, the engine, its wrapper, the value.

E

Task is wrapping the I way. The later is computed. Okay, that's it it's counselor yeah, so yeah. If you want to implement value taxes, cancel that you probably would yeah okay, what if or is completed, we we do what stream does and then we remove is canceled off for you agreed reload right. Let me just is that what.

K

Does this room horrible thanks, 0 0 by treaty 10? How is it different from our nice truck.

M

That actually tells you what the return, but if, if the buffer is empty, then is the Merton is no more you're done homework.

K

T

K

Car we're going to return it. Oh you mean. If buffer is empty, then break Oh.

G

E

Just use that as a contractor like extreme Lana I, don't.

Q

E

For cancel that close for close about Castle phrase, completed.

E

Y

What what if the other side, flushes and you've got an empty buffer yeah.

E

Reason that we would have support.

E

Y

What happens I gave in TLS if I unwrapped it, because you can have an empty frame like a frame, that's encrypted, that's it D and then so I don't pass that back to the other side. So.

G

The pipe would I have to swallow it that the pipe itself we're not flush to Europe, and we just skip it. No.

Y

No I'll get it off. The socket I would decrypt it. It has no content, so I don't flush. It.

Y

Sometimes you CD packets, so.

E

Actually, sir, do you bring this up before about the zero link? Flushes and I have a question about that. If you read and you're processing the data that you've read for long enough, that one of those your links, flushes is effectively missed, is that okay, in your scenario,.

Y

If it's effectively missed yeah.

D

Y

I'll tell you what I have zero net flushes right and it's because I make a writer I allocate Alec, Oh, Alec and then I commit and something else Alex and Alex and commits, and then you get all the way to back up to the top back into where there's async code. But you don't have that original writer. So you don't know how much has been written on.

G

Y

Thing to say yes, something down there dude, how are you can soak it? Even we could, because the flush is on the writer not on the pipe. Oh, so.

E

You can hear us right.

X

E

In that case, wouldn't she be fine, because there would be data to be flushed, which you would then receive so would it be a zero length, read yep.

Y

But you don't know if okay, so the thing is, if you swallowed the zero length flash, then that's: okay, yeah.

G

We were today today.

Y

My problem earlier that you were discussing was I, was doing a flash with a zero and it caused all kinds of.

Y

Peace, if you swallow the internal exactly.

E

So the suggestion is to swallow internal zero link flush, now a flush with length to zero wouldn't like throw, and if there was unflushed data in the buffer, it would actually do something.

E

The data left to consume like wash, will not dispatch to the reader yeah. Well, that's the.

K

Game doesn't matter if we still have this cancel them. Both is completed on the writer sunshine.

B

K

E

So the thing is, is completed is almost redundant so.

K

E

Weird to recently with no data and then not be completed for one, it's a little odd or cancel. So it's like why you can support that. Okay, doesn't matter so.

D

At that point,.

E

If zero-length reads never happen, unless it's cancelled yeah we can do. We can actually use it to infer that if it's not cancelled. It's closed.

D

So the question.

E

Is do we remove the flag because it basically normalizes the data or do we dumper.

K

The original I specify, on the other side that we give them for so.

E

What's this can't.

K

Oh, what a time we found out how to get rid off is completed. You never you late into this yeah we do based on how to get rid of is completed. We have 0s how to get rid of this cancel. It is by.

G

The way what a good ways yeah.

K

G

Talk about Daniel another way of getting really ugly aware for.

E

More for we can discuss like other issues of so.

H

E

Already discussed putting his cancel on.

H

Me a waiter, a.

E

Yeah and we decide that might be okay or a queue we offer because we eat it for value tasks. If it's gonna have is canceled on it, we decided it does.

H

It could have, it could just return.

E

Tatha is counsel for topping exactly.

H

E

Canceled yeah I could.

C

E

Good, mmm that's why I thought you guys wanted so for is completed. That has a certain symmetry with his canceled. It does seem a little denormalize because, like what the heck is, like you know, a non completed, 0 like.

K

But tusks through when you have with canceled tasks right, yes, they.

H

Came up there, you.

K

Don't you don't? Okay,.

E

Yeah, if you will wait a task that gets canceled a little bit, yeah.

Y

I, don't know if you can reuse is completed on their way table right because today use that to say something completed, synchronously, so I'm going to go straight through, like it's gonna bust, that whole patent. Sorry.

S

Completed means cancels, exception has results completed successfully, maybe.

Y

S

Y

Hijacking that, for.

E

Y

E

Turn from his castle.

G

Talking about is completed being on the pipe itself or using empty buffers.

E

Is to fight the FBI so for aya, waiter, I think the part Internet is like the.

M

E

That gives you a buffer, it's so easy to understand, if not.

G

Process else, if results completed break, that's.

M

The code you write, the weirdest.

E

Canceled right, even though fish, if you care about catfishing, they do if it's canceled for that I think you would.

H

Be standing next is.

E

Completed like and the reason you need is completed over just like the zero length read like I think this is really a committee works fine for pipes any positive, but since we're talking about Iowa turd, if we have t get result right, like they're, not might not be like the equivalent like doll or a t-value. That really makes a ton of sense see how.

L

It's got some time.

E

To see no, no is it is completed. I think you saying, let's say: is it yeah I mean especially if 0 is allowed in your in stream right all right and you have like no good central value minus one always always worth.

A

E

Yeah we go whole so you're right like you, can always just choose a different teeth to try to signal that you're done so.

D

E

And there's the question is like: why is I waiter like concerning itself with, like stream, slash sequence, flat, okay and all.

K

E

That discomfort is just this: we're not talking about this yeah.

K

E

So we have empty buffer is completed and we add, is canceled here. It's canceled, a baguette at just.

K

Need to do slip o xt v, bed machines. Yes, this cancel it was just like. Oh, I got empty data because it's canceled returned. Would you join uz r, o0 lens buffer? And there will I go.

Z

S

On valley, tossed me, are you adding a new field so if you've got a valley task event, it's now got an extra bull on it.

K

S

Calling through to the top yeah or.

E

The sonya widow, the value leaders, are like do the task for the I later yeah and it would happen, is canceled and is yep.

B

Okay, so one one I think.

Y

This is like part of a bigger discussion that was brought up last time that you really need some kind of control plane slash. You know sideband way of sinning State through, though from one layer to the next.

Y

How do I say? How do I say change the encryption case that.

E

Has more to do with then Iowa tirtha know.

Y

I know it has a lot to do with pipes, but but it's all solving the same problem right. You need to see inside band data through and it's some of it's going to be on there waiter some of its going to be in some locks and some, like you know some events.

Y

D

E

Into these arbitrary.

E

And, given that that's the case like okay, then you get arbitrary, like state pieces and, potentially you know zero too many right, because you don't know how many times you flush and then like okay. So maybe it's enough just to know the list of state objects that were flush since last time you read, but it's some kind.

D

Of even that sounds.

B

Content channel.

E

Pipe Highbury yeah to.

B

Me, the biggest problem with the side channel is that now we say both sides need to know they kind of understand one protocol which may work for one if you control both sides. Of course, it doesn't work for like arbitration oppressions.

K

B

One to one yeah.

E

The logical link, much stuff that state mattered like a long.

A

Time you kept playing it. Okay,.

Y

I said, if we come back to just the.

Y

On the pipe where I'm flashing, because I just want to break up the data, then that that's agnostic- because all of these are packet based protocols, even the stream ones- are breaking stuff up into packets. So that's like.

Z

Common to every one of them, yeah I mean I, was just.

B

Commenting on that, let's have an arbitrary side channel where I could pass margin, values that, on the other, you know some other side understands that.

Y

You know it's probably a step too far, there'll be too much abstract linking of abstraction. In that case, I agree.

G

As long as we can add things, I'm, okay, not having it right.

E

Now I think we need to see more protocols written and then go. Oh, that's pretty common. Let's change it to be like that. To do it right now seems premature. I always seen one example. Work with the is partial and I'm still not fully sold. That should be live bait in yet I.

S

Mean these partial is a B, that's basically what stream does because you've got right, async and flushed async to differentiate here's. You know, I've got some I'm writing some data. If you're writing in a loop, that's not the same size as the next stage and that you're outputting say you know I'm reading from a file in 400 by trunks and writing that out he's still want to flush it 140 1400.

S

So you want to know when, when you finish writing that file.

G

What do you need the.

X

Welcome it doesn't wake up well.

E

Yeah, you know back pressure like right and flush like in that case, right doesn't like wake up the other side either like I mean, maybe it does, it depends on the stream implication, but.

S

Like if you write.

J

E

More streams that when you call right, like you, know, Stata flush, they just flush buddy host on a push only like want that buffer require a fluff so like gzipstream or.

S

Y

S

You have, then you have a gzip pipe. You have a buffered speed. You have SSL stream, which you want to. You want to go in the size of the frame of the next stage of.

G

S

Petition dolly.

G

You don't have to call flush the function right, no.

Y

No, you don't, but but you want to cut down on the number of Siskel's, especially these days by.

E

Doing this, you can pakka dyes.

Y

Stuff up properly but.

E

By flushing less you get that same thing: yeah potential yeah, but you don't matter but.

S

E

S

Y

So the problem is the upper layer, so say: you're. Writing a protobuf thing that serializes three gigs of of objects that upper layer doesn't know the network packet size. So it's going to have to guess that I should flush every 2048, bytes or whatever, whereas if it could do a partial flush, partial flush, the whole way, along till the end of the three gigabytes, the next layer down understands what it's ideal packet sizes and can make the decision.

E

Let's flush all the time and not advancing the reader until you get it up, data.

S

Flash you can't distinguish that I've got no more immediate input, so I'm just gonna sit there waiting. Then you end up with Nagel star white, so.

E

In the partial flush is indicating that I thought: okay.

S

Don't call it partial for us call it you've got right and you've got flush right, a sink flush, a sink here and so the right a sink. Will the next level can decide when it wants to flush its data? Next.

E

Level can decide when you flush to right.

S

Y

S

X

Right, so what not.

X

Y

Save big HTTP page coming back right, yeah.

K

Y

Decided your layer, every 10, K you're, going to do this partial flush or whatever, but if today you do a flash, then the SSL Lance is well I, don't know if there's any more data coming so I have to wrap that in a packet and encrypt it and send it out, even though I could have sent 16 K, whereas if you do a partial flash, it says it's a simple: if you know if flushes, full or greater than 16 K, you know slice out, one packets ended. It's.

X

A guarantee that you will be woken.

E

Again so you want to know epic on the previous layer has more data exactly.

Y

Or is that the end of the request.

E

And you might, they might want to flush earlier, so they can send out smaller packets on the reading side like give basically get a head on it right. So.

Y

Because a massive.

Y

Wait for three gigabytes to go on to the.

Y

E

Do like wash on a timer these cancel pending, read if you wanted to have a different way to be like hey, I'm scheduling you because I'm done for a while do this immediately. The current and watch doesn't necessarily tell you that that's going.

Q

To be the case, no.

Y

No exactly so, you have to assume that that's the flash yeah.

Q

You can't assume that you.

Y

Can't exactly so, that's why we're saying there should be one way you can say we promise we'll wake you up again. Yeah.

E

Is that guarantee it's a guarantee of that hey? If you don't want to send this, don't worry.

B

We got the leader all completed last time, advance and redo it and retained.

E

Existed there might not be any like imagine the end of an HTTP. You know.

B

This director was not consumed.

E

B

It was, you know, not the right frame, size, okay, fine and then so. The reader says no I'm reading again I'm waiting for more data right.

E

B

Up right, but the problem is take.

E

Like HTTP connection, the writer might not complete four minutes until the keepalive timeout. How is facilities disrobe, so the partial wash is done all the way up to the point that you write the end of the request body. So in.

U

E

U

C

S

E

To keep the connect on open, I, I'd.

S

E

It is really communicate that I'm done hurt all.

S

The way up until there is no more data on the input socket and at that point you do a flush.

B

Does any set, so how is it different from yeah all the way you will be right right right and then you complete, and then we wake up no.

S

No because 0 constantly waking up the reader and the read the reader is deciding whether it it's not enough data to send. You know.

Y

S

Y

So the problem in your scenario of just doing commit commit commit commit commit. Is that if I've got a 3 gig file, you're now buffering the entire 3 gig file until it gets sent out so you're, adding latency and a massive amount of memory use that.

E

Scenario right so since you're, like partial flush or write or whatever we're calling, it is not waking. The reader is that my understanding, ok by poachers away, commit.

Y

Doesn't commit doesn't wait, ok,.

E

So it will every time so, whether you wash every time or you call this partial flush every time the reader gets awoken, the same amount look exactly the.

D

E

D

It just gets told.

E

Either known as the but you want to tell the reader like this: is your last shot for.

U

E

The writer knew that it was writing the end of an HP request, but.

D

E

To keep the pipe open because the underlying connection is still open right. It knows it's the end of the request, so it's saying there's a chance that this is the last thing you're gonna see for a while, because it's keepalive connection winter looked exchanged is the last bye yeah.

S

Meet me, you, wouldn't you wouldn't do it at that point, you do it when we were, you were getting no more data from the input and then you get off flush right.

E

So the question is at that point like in some cases and some scenarios you'd be okay, just closing the fire, which would effectively do that, which is.

Q

E

Kristof, music.

Q

Destiny earlier.

E

D

But that doesn't happen.

Q

Y

D

S

Protocol I know doesn't.

H

S

Okay, so happy like closing the paper on the web.

M

Yes, volume up here so.

Y

There's two things like a tedious which I'm doing right now for sequel server. Are you going to close the connection just because you've finished running your query.

E

Yeah, no I'm, not saying that you know like there's a Circosta closing a pipe I'm, just saying like I'm, just throwing out thing.

Y

With WebSockets you're gonna close down the WebSocket, because you've finished sending some data for a while.

H

B

E

H

E

There they can be independent, but it's a little bit if it's something that's kind of small like a database square, you probably don't to be creating a pipe each time or resetting a pipe each time. Our.

S

Or a WebSocket message: it's pretty cheap.

G

Add more buddies like this yeah.

S

But you don't have to first or a message on your website that.

E

And it like, we said the question.

Q

Is how nuanced.

E

Is this thing it just feels like it.

G

Is 30 notes.

E

I think they see some more examples before we additive I'll.

H

E

Though it's not as like as nuanced as I originally thought, it was like the whole saying like this is the end of a segment of data. Like I, see the value. What did the could look like in other and what.

G

The hope would you write today there's a lot of data, but if you think you would have to have some.

Y

Sort of side channel that says like as.

G

Dreams, this is more data to come. What are the cool sososo.

Y

Streams today have the same thing because they have right right right flush, so you could implement it on streams. Today, there's bright, sexy, wait, awake.

E

Do it on a stream, you would have to write your own stream, see, make yo stream yeah and what yeah like what like? What next and.

B

You don't bother in right.

E

So basically, okay inside of a surplus.

B

By 50, right right is part.

M

E

And flushes watch right, yeah and then you write your you what they say so.

K

If there is a load of data, you can flush when you know you're you're, hitting the pipes limit, like you shouldn't just stick three gigs of data into pilot yeah.

S

But you're gonna be flushing. It wrong. You're gonna be flushing at the wrong point for each layer behind, so the next layer might be gzip and you might be not doing a good frame size for that.

K

There would be enough to at least make a good frame for this. If we are talking for a bit of data, then it doesn't matter. You can see the.

S

Like NBC is doing like a right sizing, so at the moment the way right async is implemented is its commit flash, and so everything in MVC is like right, a sink right, a sink rate.

K

S

K

Please what it not all right anyway,.

B

So I would advances right, yeah using the stream another.

E

But because commit- and this is what they're saying doesn't leave the reader if you're writing a stream you're a Hokie during the right, so you can choose like if you want like edge trigger like after I, have over text. So.

D

Bizarre katrin's or.

E

Kynaston, live it or not, I know: okay, you don't wiggle duplexing! You can make an analogy for printer writing to a thing so I'm saying you're, just infinitely arrivals. That's the value right like so implementing a right, Will Smith is a lot like reading from a pipe, and so in that case, right commit is no comparable concept. That's because there's no way for streams like take data, and then you not observe it in a street if you're living the stream. So no analogy for right. That is a lot like they're.

E

You know, pen are partial flush idea where it's like hey. You received write. If you want to write it immediately, good on you, if you think that you want to write in 10, K chunks, good on you, you know what, because rates called you know that pretty soon after there's going to be a flush call. So if you don't want to do anything with it good on you, I'm.

B

Not sure if I agree that on this on stream, there is no concept of the data was written, but it's not visible if you're.

F

A made any arrival.

B

Stream, yes, if there are scenes that have internal buffers and we're.

V

Gonna try to pass.

B

It a byte arrays it copy the coffee's doing, but.

V

There's not one for.

B

The color to the reticle stream to communicate that they.

V

Don't want you.

E

To use the data yet yeah.

B

I was just commenting on it. Sorry.

E

Because the same, but what I'm saying is you can't because to implement a stream you're implementing like the abstract class right and in this.

D

E

A pipe right I can be like here's, the data. Don't do anything. There's no analogy appreciate.

B

What are you can show it by the it's.

S

Not it's not done, do anything it. You can it's up to you what you do with it and then there's the flash.

E

But in this case it's like I, don't even want to show the person that idea like with pipelines what fast.

B

So fast she kind of works like this correct you can, you know, write to first interview. Flash is a show on the fastest.

S

Like fire filestream hang on wait, you could implement that as so. The file stream won't bother doing it.

S

We'll hold on to some another full kitchen unless it gets a flush when it will write everything out, it.

Y

Isn't they have fostering books today? It already has an internal buffer right. It doesn't right for every right, yeah.

Z

That's what I would say: yeah yeah so.

X

Y

But so you, you can't replicate that today, yeah.

E

No we're agreeing yeah like streams, are always going to be kind of a little bit more flexible.

T

As opposed to just you know, be the reading or writing side. Okay,.

E

So, okay, so silky selfish I'm on the same page. So getting some.

G

Insight over because.

E

Really the biggest summer of the fallpipe right is right to the actual. Oh I thought we were making an interface anymore. It.

B

Just made it they put up stuck yeah our.

V

B

Pipe and you can do whatever you want in.

V

I hope it's good. Okay, so can somebody summarize what we just talked.

L

About the lust or not because I'm call.

A

You task we're gonna, hang no we're gonna.

E

L

About your task and.

E

That's a design, the decision, that's the best thing everything so.

L

They don't think I, remember so.

H

We want to use video use like a task.

E

But I thought we were going to straight party that.

Q

Separate yeah I did not come flight-or-fight writer, no.

E

Q

Of it, I thought that.

E

Was that the last thing we needed yeah? There is a solution because they are not.

H

So we're not even so.

E

I pi pi pi right right, but I think I.

B

Probably picked up literally.

Q

A little disgusting.

D

B

E

Glad that's fine, it's not cool and also I, like your any nice nice and.

B

We would eat the penguin if that I cannot do it them too bad we can't be, but for now let's suggest it to sleep. This is the ground, but what does it mean so.

V

B

Some run it some heart, I wanna,.

V

Univariate testimony, thank you.

B

Guys the market does.

V

We consolidated xiao8 sweeper is canceled on.

E

There or that maybe not there but unearthing know so. This.

H

A

H

E

Gone alright, let's think about this one that'll be till everything was scared, just worries like we like it, but we're worried that I'll get shot down. Yeah and I'll kill the other good idea yeah later damn, but it's actually not a bad idea, not actually worse, really good. Oh my gosh buddy task ya know the device has good use.

H

Who came up with us your stuff waste waste? It? You win a good etiquette.

E

H

A bit class, sorry, it's an either class.

H

At the Plaza, which is I, know.

E

Did me I think value tasks, shouldn't I come the reemployment.

M

Here's my monitor contest.

E

Great you're, not exposing the internal I later and if we're using I waiter is, are like combinatorial like no. No, not yet. No.

B

Party of task is good, we're we love everything.

G

But the only thing we're doing is having the same exchange time by your task. Again, we don't eat the.

B

Moment just by touch.

H

And sufficient.

B

Wrap wrap the waiter and task in.

H

Bmc literally, what we're.

B

Doing right now it is well I, guess anything and all Combinator's just take body tasks. No inside this story, an array of body tasks, which is just you.

C

B

Just one buffering memory so.

E

If we take a waiter as our like exchange, likewise I went, you can iron. My e okay make a task. You can just ha ha good. It's definitely my guys. You can get.

H

Employment with.

E

This doesn't matter that you can put the strategies very quick, I love. This thing, that's rational.

L

H

E

Like that immediately amazing.

K

Sure, like I thought, I, maybe not.

H

C

Kill it that's good, nobody need more time. Let's call it a sync.

E

C

V

I, don't is so much less than test I tasked it.

B

Is an IEC corporation.

E

Okay, I got sure.

Q

E

Q

We're not having access uh-huh.

B

Do you think that's gonna be hard to sell? Yes, I do. Can we call it something? That's like it's an operation. The way agree, that's logically, it's enough! It's basically the operation. Why? Why would it be harder, it's officer, because the next question is: why are you.

Q

Does it or doesn't why it doesn't why it does? Oh.

H

So you're saying that I'm saying it should've at least said it shouldn't, because I asked you're talking about two things.

B

No yes, so if it implements the interface not sure, then you can box. Basically it will be so easy to box it. It will be boxed. All the freaking time like I was like I. Remember like.

B

S

I, don't know why you need very test. If you look at the distance and it's.

E

Just I love the multiple implementations and the single objects, because we can't have multiple I available out see result because they would then be multiple required expectations by a critical notify. It completes just doesn't work like the type system won't allow it.

Q

B

Sorry I can't actually speak, reduces all right. I was joking about the theater I need to go home. What art it? No fine outfit! Let me just.

R

From water come on, we can, you could do.

L

E

Guys, nobody stops.

L

uh Screaming now, there's.

E

Really important discussions: we need to have about beer all right, so partial flushes see you later. I will read your thing. Ben.