.Net Foundation Design Reviews, 29 Aug 2017

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From YouTube: .NET Design Reviews: GitHub Triage

Description

00:00:00 - Approved: Allow fire and forget CancellationTokenRegisteration.Dispose https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/14903
00:13:18 - Approved: Update Type.GetMethod() overloads to simplify finding generic methods via reflection https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/16567#issuecomment-325756004
01:28:34 - Approved: Need api to determine if a type is "byref-like." https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/17232#issuecomment-325756873
01:31:46 - Approved: Add a way to opt out of TargetInvocationException wrapping on late-bound invokes. https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/22866#issuecomment-325761139
01:45:55 - Approved: Add ProcessStartInfo.StandardInputEncoding property https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/20497#issuecomment-325762992

A

Now we're in the face I.

B

Think we have quorum right, I, think that's everybody will show up before we start cannot so two questions. We had a discussion of.

A

Over email about the API idea, API request and API suggestion, nobody seemed to be pushing back what people think about the name votes. Please, the.

C

Position well maybe.

A

A suggestion you.

C

Know your favorite I, like both requests and was the other one suggestion an idea. You don't like idea. Okay,.

D

I didn't like idea, because it looks like random as yes and I think I once up. There is a bit more structure. Suggestions sounded about us like okay,.

E

Stephen and I think from you I.

F

Find my suggestion: okay.

G

Suggestion if it's.

F

G

You this is basically a new type and that's where it starts.

A

And that, as I listed I'm gonna clean up the up for grabs and probably even close, those that are there sitting for one or two years with one or two O's, which is like yeah. Nobody.

C

Is interested in I'm gonna? Do it why to sit on it? We can reopen later all.

A

Right next question: are we gonna record today's session at least least one hour, and you know if there is nothing bad you're, gonna publish it as an example hope you do how we do like PR reviews for people. Everyone is okay with that. If you started already, is you know all right? So it's part of that is that, by the way at 10:30 we offer weekly can cut it. Don't work on it at 10:30. We're gonna have other coming in, because there are like free reflection, issues and I.

A

Don't think that we cannot pull them up themselves.

D

There's no cutting alright, so let me actually present the screen would be helpful.

D

So these are all the ones ready for you, so that's I think the list we shall go over because they haven't done this in a long time. Probably Oh should do all this fortress or be built.

D

Sort of on this one, yet it started with these guys here hundred about the disposable.

H

So some of these are much more expensive than others. Would it make sense to do some real, quick wins? First, let's give two hours, let's go top to bottom and then.

B

Just keep the washable, so they might check the mister night. A most of them seem to.

A

Be pretty simple or prints in flesh yeah.

D

All right, so, let's go with this one: okay,.

F

So I can explain this one. You guys hear me yep, okay, so cancellation. Token registration is what you get back when you call cancellation, token, dot register it's a struct that represents the registration, you call dispose on it and it removes the registration, and so typically, you register something you do the body of work that you would want to be cancelable and then, when you're done with that, you call disposed on it easy enough.

F

You know whatever the issue is that if, if the callback associated with the cancellation token bout register is currently running, when you call dispose, then dispose waits for it to finish, and the reason for that is you want to know that when dispose has returned in general, you want to know that either the callback has already run or will never run such that you can clean up or do what you want with any of the state associated with that callback.

F

If it was possible to callback could could be still be running or run at some point in the future after you call dispose, then you don't know whether you can touch the state associated with that callback. So that's sort of the 90% case. However, there is the 10% case, where there's some sort of interaction between the callback and the thread calling disposed such that, if disposed, were to wait on that call back, you could deadlock and there's.

F

Actually there have been a few cases, I think in ASP, and none of this we actually even have a case where we had to work around this, which I just discovered the other day in our WinRT async support. We explicitly avoid the dispose, call and access internal methods in order to avoid a deadlock that can occur because of the kind of UI and synchronization context issues. So basically, this proposal is just adding an api to cancellation, token registration that allows you to call dispose without waiting.

F

So for those you know there, it's cancellation token registration still implements eye disposable. The dispose implementation doesn't change, we're just adding another method that you can call separately on it. If you want to ensure that you don't do that, wait.

D

So basically you would leave the existing disposed to still wait. Then we have another one that basically doesn't wait. Correct.

A

How does it complicate implementation of those cancellation tokens when you said that you know typically only wait that you know of the fact that no one is running this.

F

Has zero impact on existing usage? What.

A

F

Turns right, oh so, basically, today, you use these. In generally one of two ways: either you say either you usage is very scoped, in which case you just say using cancellation, token, dot register such that at the end of that using block the registration will be undone or you have a field of a cancellation token registration on some structure or on some class, and you register, and you store the registration into that and then at some point later often some other piece of code.

F

When the operation has completed, you call dispose on that cancellation, token registration, so in terms of usage patterns, in that latter case, it's literally just adding a few more characters. Instead of calling field dot dispose, you call field dot dispose without waiting and the first case you can no longer use a using block. So, instead of saying use, cancellation, token, dot register, you would say var registration, equal cancellation, token, dot register, try. Finally, and then the finally, you would call dispose without waiting, instead of disposed so basically manually expanding the using block into a try.

F

Finally, if you can't, if you cared about this case and.

E

If somebody has it any using so they're gonna call the current dispose and they call this new method. The dispose does nothing dispose.

F

Tracks, whether it's been called and it tracks it on the cancellation token source, which is a class, so it's effectively item potent and calling it more than once it's a no op, even with the existing one. So.

E

Calling so calling dispose without waiting as a thing that you might do in the middle of a using statement or manual. Try finally will cause the later call to dispose to to also not wait, because it's it thinks it's already. It knows it's already. This moves, that's correct. Okay, so.

D

I think there's nothing wrong. That API, like I, feel like there is this general problem that we have in other areas already UCL a--, where we kind of want to have the semantics of dispose, essentially, logically blocking without actually blocking what that box. I we had this in the window. Tt k is where you want it to basic to Lush the buffers and dispose, if necessary, but they only a plush acing. So we couldn't really flush the butters circle, asleep about basically doing a blocking operation, and that always had some.

D

You know bad taste in terms of like how we deal with that, and it seems to be like another variant of that kind of problem. Where there's really not a good semantics would be existing disposed better. I think we talked about this before to add something like this opposed async effects.

F

So that is another option here. If we had ia sink disposable, yeah.

I

F

Could have cancellation token registration implement ia sink disposable as well, and then you know you could choose to call dispose async instead and it would return a task or a value task that would complete. You know most of the 99.999% of the time it would complete synchronously, but in these rare cases you would get a task that would complete when it eventually completed. That's also a viable path. I, don't have anything wrong with that. Yeah.

D

Like I mean, if you could go down that path, I mean then I should be instead of adding this API as proposed to be add, basically public radio tasks. Well, it's not even major satellite. It would just be task right because there's no way to.

J

Test it is non-generic yeah, it would be yeah. It would be just a task you're right, so so should we just do that like they? Can they actually do the away? Do they even care? It's.

D

A good question because, on their side, like I, just try to look at the broker on, but it's like 500 lines of code, so I didn't quite see what they were doing, but I mean if it would just do public tasks dispose. Async I mean that I mean it. Obligate is away, but they just kick it off. You've done what they do right, so it wouldn't really be yeah.

F

I think that's a it's a good question. I think that's probably a reasonable approach. My only hesitation would be on implementation. I'd have to look at the implementation to see whether there would be any significant impact to it off the top of my head. I. Don't think there would be I think we could make it fairly pay-for-play, but I think that's a pretty reasonable alternative I'm actually currently in the process of writing up notes for proposals around I, think disposable and I. Sync, innumerable and stuff like that for discussion.

I

In c-sharp language design should do that. I mean the the problem in the past is like what do we do with using basic.

D

Clear that you would like to have using support for.

K

F

So why don't for this one money we put a pin in it and just make a note that if we do a nice ink disposable, it would be better off with that. If we don't I, think we're fine other than you know, we could decide on name.

F

We could go with this one, but I agree that an async disposable seems reasonable. Unless someone can think of something that would be problematic there. I.

G

F

Rename its disposition.

G

F

Mean I guess we could also just do dispose async, regardless of whether there's an async disposable and then, if we add a nice ink disposable later, we could just make it work. My.

G

Next suggestion yep.

G

Only thing is, we've got to make sure we get the signature. Imagine.

D

Yeah I think honestly, like Texas bull pacing seems fairly reasonable by you task force. um Well, there's no muss.

F

There was a need to return a value, I, don't think we would need value tasks and if, even if the signature differed, we could always implement it explicitly and.

H

D

D

B

Yeah they was to apply to talk about it. Alright come again, so it will come back with a new proposal or sorry mister, like basically excusable, to put a pin in it. For now.

D

I'm bring it up to all the end to see what we want to do with that, and then we will either do a one-off there or we just follow the pattern or whatever.

A

D

Needs for work again, majority is practice. It's what work.

D

Right city, property, ready XD for vertex image, time to configure default on a global way.

D

Yes, I remember that yep.

D

No static buzzing there's no signal ready for that cuz. Some reason.

A

D

Add it so I mean this, would basically just map to the app domain thing, probably an implementation to and consistent, but.

H

um So, there's no reason why we can't make after me coming to main set data work as well I mean we should have a strongly typed way, but don't mean this. The thing is this already Brooks today or it doesn't, or it doesn't or in court, doesn't usually yeah.

G

H

It needs that a set of the data blob that was never done if I remember right, yeah, we don't have said later at all. Do you have it, but it doesn't do anything to it, but there's nothing. Never ever ever using it, you're gonna have a generator anywhere. Oh I see that's just a bug, but but it does seem like it'd, be useful to have the API as well.

L

H

D

Yeah I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Paula.

L

Foster producer for bringing.

H

Dissipated like um in desktop, whereas when would I get we're just at the start of the afternoon or yes, sir. No are you setting it after the abdomen started up you just wondering if you can handle getting changed afterwards, all you have the static right, so you can change well.

L

I'm just saying.

H

The implementation we're gonna use in their handle are changing my hands if I'm ready running a regex. Well that question, because nearly the data is read much only that message so then I guess. That's then.

E

It was a good question because now we're implying you can set it at any number of time yet before, essentially, you probably would have said they were at it before waking up.

H

The regex class right, which is kind of late, so I, don't want the implementation of this. Is it's probably fine that we could amble changing, but I mean.

G

Yeah I mean you're just going to initialize it. When you create your edge of topics and then you grabbed a default and that's what you set the timeout I get it.

E

In general, I am very weary ever having statics like this public, because it means that you can pick up any library.

I

E

Now, all of a sudden you're behaving very differently and have no idea why doing things in African fig or things that have to be loaded before the class initializes there at least stable for the lifetime of the program, so I mean like they just it's back to the evils of C and mobile variables and call another function. On the other hand, they.

H

Sort at least give Y wheat some opportunity to choose roads previously. It would but.

E

If the library cares about what its timeout is, it just just set it on every object.

G

There's nothing wrong with making justice you know so use your key can retrieve it understand. Well,.

D

I think part of the reason for the time when in the first place was because libraries didn't do it right. So the idea is 7f and I use a library on my a spinet server. I want to make sure they all have time what this is sensible, because I don't control the library code, it's more for the application or lateral sure, but like I may not be the one that construct stretching right. I'm just changing this I. Don't.

E

Think would restrict anybody.

J

Who have made sure you're, not controlling everyone, sure right here, yeah this.

H

Is the kid I mean if somebody specifies a my mother I think it's fine.

D

H

You made it at set once regex and static.

D

This world is wrestling with mystic bender edges object gets created; they they this, they could take it, they get it from the static thing and then, if the sexting changes after registered, it was constructed too bad. But, like you still basically set this video many times, but you only have to make sure that you do it before the reticle that gets created. Well, if.

H

I understand right: the problem is that if library set is they get loaded and then the application term isn't constantly extensively setting it back. They're gonna get supplies library.

G

Can now infect other libraries right.

H

Where should you make it.

G

Set once and the application as well, the generally like we had you studying this issue only be sitting in close regex. The problem.

D

Is like there's certain API is we have where, if the library controls just bad programming library parts, for example, if you set current directory and have the library code like you're, probably to expect to begin with, but like there's, nothing that the app can do. In that case, it's just just a really badly written library. You.

E

Should never like this is sending it today, I mean I'm, just you know, being conscious of the pattern of exposing global control values like we have with HCP for the callback stuff we have like in general. It just I feel that it just leads to problems. If we do it where we bind it and it's I'm in default or one-shot assignment, then that's at least more predictable. Then, if two different libraries try setting it like, one of them is gonna blow up and like don't do that. Well,.

D

It said once is this unfortunate side-effect, the gift to talk about what happens that you're, the second guy blowing up is great big. Knowing.

C

D

It's not great.

D

E

I guess my position would be cautious.

D

Sure but like I mean like terms of actionable items, what do we do? Because we don't have config so there's.

G

It's very easy for us to do the shut the main thing and really reap the value from that to me and get it and.

E

Then we go back to whatever guarantees we make in core or in framework which presumably.

I

E

That we reason has to be set before you initialize the register box. It essentially goes back to me if main didn't, do it. No one.

D

So that's not geography, so you basically said this would be property. They've got read its value from here or what's.

G

An internal property, not public property, we initialize it from that domain, understand the static constructor of regex. First time, taxes.

E

So we make AB domain that current domain that set they don't work. We make the regex class read from that value and we don't add this property or.

A

Which means that you, as a users, application, including a spirit that has to get to execute your code and call the set before anything else and in library, is little that uses any rejects. So.

E

Essentially, if main doesn't do it, no one does, which is the same guarantee. We have right now a very non control main in an ASP nap. You s been an application capacities, flash the.

H

G

Hard of posting.

C

So gonna have it in a speed of Manticore, so.

G

There's definitely hosting, although not entirely sure, well you're,.

C

I

Have this supported.

G

Like if you create our apart than they don't match so today in core, we have the run type in finish. Just get put into this data back, so you can set a property you want. As for your app and.

H

Presumably, this mess will work today right when you set it and they can take file. They're calling set data.

C

Well, that's nice, beautiful I'm, gonna, terrific, say speed on that call right.

G

Does the difference so I think in court they have a better option, a better chance of getting it set before reg X. Then we doing for let's you know, I.

A

Would go with the cell data and, let's, let's, let's verify the end-to-end with asp.net core context: what.

H

I said they to do when you call it twice in the same video into the dictionary like I discuss something else. The dictionary I, don't think, is any notifications or anything v behind it, but well I mean.

D

It could the question is: who wins? First one? Oh, that's funny, sedated was so I was a different one driver.

E

The property because once.

D

E

Once the regex class has finished its type initiates as some more predictable will set once.

H

Pattern is done so a getter on the regex with the uncontroversial right.

D

Like I said under syntactic, which part of projects the regex type other projects instance time, it's.

G

A style constructor on religion so.

D

The steady constructor there is snatched a value out of it. So the first time we access projects, it's done yeah, so you have to beat the CC tour. So you have to be made.

E

Which is what we have right now at net effects.

H

Do you have those counties about static constructors and.

D

I'm not sure like we are solving.

H

J

D

You have to basically know you make it like one of the nice things or the polymer circuit so based in edited like basically it means you can only really reliably set this radii out sort of manage code as soon as you're running any managed code. The may be screwed. That's.

E

Why asp.net has.

D

A capable on tests of the do yes on on core the the pattern. Is you auditing code.

H

Also, the time domain set data would not let you say a name value. That's already set. Oh, so it's one, so you're gonna get one chance to separate checks. Doesn't.

I

H

Up or just gives invalid operation except said later, everyone's this.

E

Is interesting, I mean again like pretty much it's you're you're setting this when creating a flow meter you're setting it is made to modify the current one. What's code starts running, you don't really expect these things to change.

C

D

So basically so, there's rock and all set to make this work today because it doesn't and then the second part is.

C

We could just leave it at that: I've, tough, terminating, that it's really an asp.net chord which I cleared it.

D

Yeah we can see what the dead Burks I.

D

Wouldn't be terribly shocked if it actually doesn't work.

B

In a spirit nuts, core yeah.

D

Because, basically, all you need to do is like, if you do any sort of reflection, and that requires the type to be loaded before you.

C

E

Well, but CC tours now only fire when you access stuff, like talking about the.

D

Just saying a type of regex dot get members I don't cause the pack constructor current I believe that is something that changed in dead right work.

E

G

From no Eddy I.

E

Because I remembered her I, remember working so won't be surprisingly.

I

Dinner next time there.

E

Was a like I think it was net effects, for we were depending on a static or the order of static initializers, and they changed it for until you accessed the first static field or initialize the first object.

E

The question is: look as if has access right, I believe reflection did not count, which I think is the thing that we were depending on having happened.

E

D

All right, so then, let's make a decision on this one. Let's just go with no for now and then see what happens yeah, let's officially make it work as best that so.

E

So MSDN says it is called to initialize the class before the first instance is created or any static. Members of reference.

A

The static constructor, oh and there's a question: if SPO pentaquark or provides you they help to execute your code before initializing can a or you know before doing.

C

Any stuff, and if holding in using any classes on that stuff right.

A

It's like, if they really were telling asp.net on that code path from like before you call the first. You cannot use an a right Jax. It should be fine brothers.

E

Or they need to have taken, can take and applied it to regex before they got address. For that.

C

M

We don't know tested.

C

Samuel: okay, it's a very good point. Coming.

B

I showed that tested in asp.net core it directly, which is.

D

How do we want to track that? Should I close this issue then and file a secondary issue for the for the for the set data thing that should be just a hike, remove the epi ready for review and just decline, the API essentially well. We should fix it.

D

Yes, but there's two issues where there is the basis fix that data and add an API. But if you want to reject the let the letter of about the former write is issues.

A

Both can't be is this just take the tanker I would reuse because there's some history, you know one stop souls and we might come back that all that doesn't work from certain reasons and we might want to repurpose this right.

L

D

Way we do it so there's no money I take on it. That's a bit of look bug all right, UMass API, oh I, think we.

N

D

This before or not didn't we then we want to.

E

D

C

To do the perfect, something is to have like free I, don't know like open three tabs I know.

A

I saw you up, they actually has.

L

D

L

D

Can just walk them in order and that are peek it as far as you get, there is no simple reflection.

N

D

I think we talked about that. This looks very familiar: I.

B

Don't think there were many comments on that one Oh are.

L

D

No I'm be sure we look at this one. Oh yeah, this.

C

D

D

Yeah and I remember commenting on this yeah. He talks a fist up on that. One right crystal didn't like what we did still don't entirely understand what this pushback was.

N

All the totally completely reshaped so.

A

Where is the latest.

L

N

It why is it so long? Like I said this is most complicated one on three.

D

So, what's up I, remember correctly, like the the quick summary is we effectively wanted to retrieve them method? That itself is generic on potentially generic or non generic type right, and there is no API that allows us to do that without basically going for, like three API calls right yeah, we can't disambiguate in those cases and so I think I want to say the original bullet kind of like something like this. No.

N

D

It over right there's the.

N

Original proposal passed in a set of pipes to instantiate the generic method over and then.

I

It would instantiate.

N

The generic method sort of virtually and then use that as the kind of candidate set to be originally I got this right.

L

N

Off that I get completely.

D

So what would that mean? So, basically, when you say get method know what do you get back? You get basically.

H

D

Unscented Generac back correct. Yes,.

N

This works like the classic jet method, except that there's a new pivot, which is a generic.

E

N

E

Number of parameters, a number of approved parameters, but you can have given few of T where T is struct and get two of T where T is class. No, no, no.

G

Like it's right.

E

A

Is it the in in the case of if it's on generic class as well is a generic arity of the one that you see in c-sharp or to read a lot, because it is up only the only the number of parameters introduced by the method declaration yeah. So.

N

In c-sharp not.

A

In aisle, because in aisle it's added edit together right well,.

N

No I think it's what you're talking about here is you're trying to be your classes with mrs. Hart's versus it doesn't apply to genic methods.

D

Here, 60 Hertz members because they made it they do their basic to right. You pick one effective, effective one is the foot type names and then backtick backtick one is for method names completely they're, completely different thumb index, paces yeah. So in a sense like you put your supply, here's how many you know how much.

N

Product, what's.

K

The number behind.

D

The two vectors, essentially yeah, and so you can't overload because it's part of the name.

N

There's no ninety part of me, but it is part of the method signature. That's yeah used for December. Yet this disambiguation, we don't have to mangle the name for methods like for that.

E

There's a place where two methods could have compatible looking parameter signatures and also at the same generic Garrity. That's right: okay, yeah! Oh my.

B

N

Can't overload on constraints.

D

So what does it mean to return back?

D

The user still has to essentially make it like instantiate the generic method, because before they can actually do like iterate.

A

D

Assuming he wants it, yes,.

A

D

As logic, the existing ones would call this.

N

Guy zero essentially well, he would call it with I'd, be any value which isn't public, so they'd, probably big, funnel or common worker. Then we take, you know some like minus one means any means that don't care value everything else, but yeah, that's a notation, but.

N

D

Like curling reflection, you literally have to say get methods and do everything yourself correctly. Yeah.

O

And so basically,.

D

This is, this is a like. What would be throw from this guy is.

N

D

N

That's not just abstract.

N

H

I see yeah it has beautiful by there are concrete. Implementation is arity of 10 we've used before. Is it in the seashell fact? I, don't see it in any API.

N

Well, this is kind of a general language chart, but I don't know if there's a overriding precedent. If there is that's fine, but.

D

Don't know what we call it, a reflection, I think, usually we say number of generic types or some of the Nerds out the exam yeah yeah.

H

I mean authority is in the reflection API, it's already.

N

H

Generic parameter countless well, they called Christophe.

D

H

D

Tonight, I'm perfectly filed there, so both rosin and CCI expose this thing as arity today, but they I mean to me it's more about consistency. If you don't use air 82, deflection, Tripoli.

E

So searching for generic Garrity looks like there may be a exception. We throw during a generic bind in the section that the number of generic arguments provided doesn't equal the arity of the generic type definition. So if.

H

We're already doing it an exception.

E

Types than world-system.

H

Reflection, metadata method, signature, generic parameter count. Yes, because what we just closed today, that's my.

L

Recording today, by the way, these plunge to publish it just a fly. Oh you.

H

Name it that way. Well, it was supposed to be a th to temper your language is.

K

H

D

So this time don't make jokes about miguel like a good last time.

D

Remember this issue: no, so we had a reflection proposal where the idea is, you can get a method that is generic without looking for it yourself, the most the issue, you felt very strongly last and it shouldn't add it and I'm trying to page him what the argument was, and the problem is that this right up here is pretty long, but in this ends like option a's, we expose methods like.

N

These are just this didn't sound, actually, an option be really both be proposed together and the person he'll ask this piece of both, but it's useful. Okay, that's.

D

Incorrect so there's basically two parts. So the first part is we add these overloads here which basically do not instantiate the generic to just. Allow you to find it without. You basically filtering the methods yourself, so you basically specify how many arguments it can take and then you just do the normal binding to the parameters.

D

And then this is the implementation of reflection model, and then I guess the second one is.

D

K

So I have a question about the generic rit and the type array isn't the length of the tiger right: the generic rit, no ransom parameters, nice crackers.

K

You mean, like a formal yeah, the method, not dieters, okay, okay, yes, so.

O

This is not genetic Eric, it.

A

Is so how I really do think we already have those four methods without the.

E

Engineering character.

A

Let's look at this.

E

Year with it takes three generic type parameters and takes an object of shredded net, oh and a rule, because, let's not use the same difficulties, so it has four formal parameters and three generic parameters: okay,.

D

E

D

The first move two parameters: energy of zero; second, one arity of one still two parameters.

D

A

Fair enough, my key understanding is that, like the format of they already have them, except that it doesn't have the second argument: that's jarett Raj, so we're just adding yet another time engine like you know all those for our bit or without the generator, and so.

K

I kind of vaguely remember now, as discussing the issue and I remember we just talked about you know. We asked the person who's submitted the proposal to show like what is the code that you would have to write. If we don't provide all of this ID is so it was not like push mark. He says I, you know like we should not should not do this ITI. It was more like. Since the api is a bit, you know adds complexity, you know, does it help a lot or or you can just open code.

N

To get the same behavior if you want to get the exact same behavior as kind of behavior with all of its legacy, behavior, that's a lot of colors because they say if you have to have a lot of policy in him arm, which is unfortunately yeah.

K

N

K

Like how you know, when you say a lot of code, is it you know for.

N

K

Lines of god or it's two hundred lines of code, because if it's two hundred that we should that and then we can kind of.

I

Say you know how.

N

K

People wants to eat ESS api. If it's just few people, then.

N

I think there's a complete I think there's an advantage because get method. You know the add method was kind of designed before we have generics so we'd. Let you specify all the things that ECMO says: disambiguate method seizures, except this one piece which was introduced into this generic. So it is a glaring gap. You see what I'm saying yeah.

D

I think the original proposed all seems to the generic and allows you to paisa to pass on the type arguments right, and so this one alone, why does it so the two-step fan? So it's consistent with what get messed at us today, except you don't have to handle two generics manually.

D

The child uses Trudy.

O

E

Mean if it's, if the C sharp two would be on spec, says that it's all of the formal parameters, plus the count of generic parameters that disambiguates the method. That I think that this is just missing. Production.

D

So the beta today is when you call get method without specifying the generic error. Tv only button on genetics.

N

No, no, we it's really for the generic parity, where we're selecting. So it's basically you're passing, don't care! Oh.

D

N

D

Between solving these methods of linearity of zero versus.

E

Calling the existing right so.

D

The existing ones would actually be an ambiguous match yeah. So if.

E

You have, if you have two things that differ only by already, and you call the current with the current. Don't care right, does it fail or does it turn the first one? That's in Richards I think it frozen ambiguous match.

K

Exception: yeah yeah. Yes, so so you said that it's a lot of lines of code. The nine now will remember even what we were discussing like and you just call good methods- and you know like let's do dairy to check yourself and the type match yourself.

D

Oh yes, but then you also have to do everything else, so you now have to deal with like the binder. You have to deal with parameter modifiers. You have to deal with the calling convention, so that's probably I mean I. Think 200 200 lines of code is probably not a stretch. If you should apply all of that plus.

C

I would play the the car that, like it's a gap like you know, this is.

E

We had if we had to get methods that took the binder in the common conditions in the array, the parameter modifiers.

K

Yeah I'm just kind of freaking what I started remembering that we discussed last time, because if you know how he says that I.

D

Think it's 138! Yes, it is Herman writes at at 75, but then you have zero I know so.

E

We didn't have any problems of updating. You know a type, that's in that standard. Well, essentially, the type that's in that standard, I would say. Yes, this is just obviously one thing: I'll defer to the complexities of updating type is.

D

Very simple: tripping up the river.

G

Yeah we've rented a lot of people ohms.

A

G

And I prefer just.

A

Gonna have to take time.

G

To get everywhere, it's like everything else, so.

D

Then, what's the second part you like I'm, not quite making the connection between the first one? Okay.

N

um It's um if you scroll down a little bit, maybe I had.

C

A high hats: we.

N

Had yeah I had a cookie side of motivation.

N

Scroll back up to the next thing, sense, yeah, right, scroll, one more time and then alright that paragraph number two no easy way to specify a generic. That's the motivation. I see.

E

So you can't, when trying to pass the thing it says in this I'm, looking for a thing with a with a generic parity or parameter capital. Only two and the second type is t2. You can't make a t2.

M

A

Representing the generic variable, basically yeah, you have something like that or easy, but the only way to get it is to have the method that you're looking for are. You know, I mean, for example, all classes.

A

Sorry can I do instantiations and I create hierarchy? Can I create a generic argument in Eric arguing because you can do like you know, inherit from list of tea and say, like you know, I'm hello, tea.

N

A

Is this how this.

N

Is by getting reference to the generic parameter / by defining by the method and the only path you have to get getting your hands on. One of those is to have the method info for the generic parameter, which is the thing you're looking for in the first place, so in in.

E

Our current reflection, API I, see if you have a generic method, food that takes one round a generic argument and a generic by the bar that takes one argument. Are there is the unresolved generic method info? Are those two types the same? Are they equal? Alright? Are they both method? One parameter hold on okay, I! Guess. The question is the type info of an unresolved generic type uh-huh? Does that know who owns the generic type? So does it track the method who owns it versus the method part or they all just I'm a positional know.

N

All right right, yes, yes, yes, that's precisely the problem. The generic parameter type type is high, actually has the declaring method of the declaring type as part of one of its properties. It is about. Yes, that's exactly the problem, it's, but only in a reflection, so.

E

When you reflection, so we would need to be, we would theoretically, in order to make this work, we would need to add support for an unbound cousin.

N

Shrine generic and then that's.

E

Exactly what it is, it's basically a number yeah plus.

A

A blue is the only question I have is about the naming. Okay.

N

I

Do we have something similar.

A

For classes, no, we don't, so we don't need ever. You know if I make instantiation or.

G

L

Like that, generic.

A

Type make sure this closest thing matters, but it's its instantiation directly right, but it's a question if I have to ever class. Like you know, class generic variable type in person, we don't have that I. Think.

N

The way you do you just look our list of yah-yah-yah-yah to find it just find it was getting the title and asking what are your generalized.

E

Type of bracket bracket and.

E

K

K

Generic like it so much, oh.

E

K

E

Okay, so this so the proposal B is adding an API to get a positional generic type, yes or positional unbound generic type and in to make the binder make those methods work. I accept.

D

Them, but if I, if I call this method and I say you know, let's say I sign this to t1 and then I say: T 1, dot, the clearing method. That would be now I, suppose right, I'm, sorry, so man.

N

Oh yeah declared.

D

Because this is this, you just synthesized, essentially a position raise.

N

It you only ever need to call these guys here right now list I down below. I go through the exact list of things. I posted support, armies, signature types, CC.

D

Time before they say, if you give me 1 for 1, given 1 4 4 4 1, 4 0, and then you just take it. I said you pass in the t, yeah and then.

C

The the you are, you all right make.

D

C

E

I see that make sense sounds good and so scroll to see what.

N

You want to see nature in there. Well, it's not a fiercely part of the type I'm. That's the concept that we for that's a name, I'm reusing report. That concept you know because it is a different. It is a different type universe.

A

But this is the first time we introducing that concept. Yes, yes, so.

D

It's like it's a conceptually. We were I think agreement that, like really we need this API its we just can talk about naming now. Is that there or is any other well.

E

So there's also the question of when you get back. This type object from. Let's just know what the current name make generic method parameter. Signature type yeah. How is it going to behave? Yes.

I

E

Like that's something I think yeah, so I think it's saying that member info should throw is weird because then you can't test, do I have one of these without writing a try-catch okay.

E

Somebody else is trying to write some reflection right backing stuff.

N

E

N

Give you a preview of that about what I was kind of minimum needed a needed to enable this scenario. I do agree that you know there's a sliding scale or is it we want to make this border first off concept, and so I do keep that in mind. While deciding this thing and soundly color it the well if you scroll down, but let's.

D

Not go there because that to me is almost like the next step of the design. Yes, it is next I think the only other alternative it don't use time and I think that would be different. Yeah get method right, basically would need something like a almost like a union. That said, you know type or a generic.

I

Generic reference would.

F

I

D

I think the only sensible thing is that something derives and then, if there's a method that creates one of those, so we need to agree on what the name is the type and then the well. The type doesn't have to be public, but you need to agree on like what the behavior is yeah, maybe there's a curio API on type. That tells you. Are you one of those right and sure? Maybe these are the only clicking.

E

Are bad we could add that.

D

Yeah did I just want somebody to be able to detect them without again state, yes, okay, so so the first one use that you already have an existing API that is kind of similar to then right. Okay, we do well.

G

D

Have like the I'm thinking like make.

N

D

N

D

L

A

N

N

C

I should search.

D

For they didn't plant things, there's an some.

C

Navy API today.

D

Makemake, so you have youth those guys make a great size. Microfiber I'll make sharing time, make it longer time so may generic type is actually Stan. Shooting engineering.

I

D

I

Yeah, the name is testing.

D

um So then we wouldn't need something like.

D

And I guess I think the name is proposed to this seems a bit long. I agree I, drink I would I would like to have some of this bit short I mean.

K

Also, I wonder whether, because now it says it's a parameter to a generic method.

N

K

Whether you can come up with a name that basically say says it's a unbound and then it go because you would need it's basically I guess it's fair, not be. You know specifically about the metal o.

N

K

N

It for classes- oh well, yeah we buy one extended to use it for classes, for there's also things that we could do it if we, if ever becomes important to like search for overloads on like custom modifiers- and you know this would be the natural place here- is a modified pipe, which is.

E

A type with a custom.

N

Modifier after like see, you start exactly kind of a yeah. These.

E

Are both the same they're both position, one but they're different? This is classic from the night analysis. Yes,.

M

Okay, so this is this- is.

M

O

K

The distinction, because it basically you just need to pass an array of two instances.

E

K

E

Both of these along as T and you aren't the same I think they can be even the snap because that stuff yeah, so you need to be able to identify these differently. So this one is the class or the method positional or the method parameter came first, and this one is the class parameter and first granted. If you're looking for one of these, you probably already have types, you could ask him for his generic type parameter sub-zero right. So so this one you could get the object off of. There isn't a usability.

E

That means it's all there yeah, but I see, but it's the there is a difference. If you're looking, if you're writing some sort of generic thing. On top of once we start adding this there's the difference between an unbound, positional, zero from a method and an unmapped and zero so be sure to has a mess.

I

E

The end there, so we need to know where this, where it's being about, where do you think you're binding it to later.

K

So can I see it come back to the code. What I do in this case we'll do it passes those two parameters.

D

She would say a type of cool bracket bracket or get generic parameter 0. That will be your T and then you would say type dot. Make generic whatever for argument 0 for the message.

K

So, for one I use this new method for one that I use just make generic major again just get the check parameter.

D

From gray, but I mean that means you can cook, the art I mean probably could make the other one work too, but like oh yeah, it seems almost nobody cares something.

N

Like that, yeah I can imagine, this becomes commonplace and people will warn the other one for consistency. It's it's not it's not a major. You know and we comply that. That's not that's not hard.

K

Which one is then you mess up then in the second month, yeah.

E

That's the thing that you can't say right now: this you get because you have something you're calling get method on, so you could have asked him for his gtp.

A

You don't know.

E

Purple's, it's actually create this. We would know well yeah, it's alright g-good generic arguments and then sure I can make it. It calls the Aradia Jake as I asked. Are you proposing something in that good? That's the good generic type parameter was a method Ian the script, sharp compiler I. Don't remember the way that that wrote. It reflection. Okay, yeah.

D

In a sense, the one that we introduced is a reference. The the one that we already have is a definition unfortunately, so like there.

I

There's, where is the.

D

Same kind of bleeds and reflection, maybe pretend.

G

They're the same.

D

But actually, there's nothing that we can do in reflection. That would not result in much more API service to make that consistent, yeah, the polymers reflection, doesn't have the concept of a reference to a type.

D

It only has burn-off arrows, so that would you pass it on the left hand, side is the definition of the generic type, which doesn't I, think even exists in ILO I guess it does, because it has a name by like, on the right hand, side you just pausing the reference to generic type, which is just the you know, the position of the generic parameters of the method, because you can't actually get to the definition yet because it trying to find.

E

So module naming I think it's a reasonable like it. It seems the least invasive way to do this. So when we start the name with.

N

K

Of the precedence yeah, we all are the type factory to make something exactly in other places, we'll just go.

D

To create creator and they even Singleton's or they're like they don't they're, not cash right there, they all create a new object. Every cigar. Why do I say that's implementation, detail, I! Don't.

N

Plan too casual.

E

So technically here, because what we're really introducing is actually a reference and not actually the type it could be make generic method parameter reference, so you're making.

D

E

Yeah but honestly, nice use.

D

The content of a type reference in the first place, because we don't have it anywhere else, reflection this. You basically lie here and he's like make.

K

Generic little parameter seems like adding reference who didn't add too much.

E

Okay I mean, like I, just make generic method parameter to me. It feels like it's more for like code dumb or anything.

I

E

It's building things that, like I'm, either I'm, either adding a new one of these to a method that I'm about to like dynamically, build or I'm. Adding one of these and I can't tell.

D

It's not gonna.

E

Explain the whole I just feel like it's missing an app yeah keep.

D

In mind we have nation Eric type, which it's either one of those. That's fine, so yeah, okay, yeah that simple thing they're all good right, then let me just paste this in somewhere.

O

G

M

The other one I.

G

See what we're selling yeah yeah.

N

Yeah but don't don't apples and oranges that you know.

L

I'm really good.

D

E

We allow implicit things, that's a private instance. It.

E

And those what did we said during RIT? We said generic parameter. Count I think is what matches the ago sapien.

E

So then you would, if you had a method info, you could take its generic parameter, counting pass it into generic parameter.

D

C

D

Those capitals.

C

Will be upset so far now I'll talk about the other interesting.

D

Leave your missed, I think one.

C

Of the methods over there other the method, if you on the yeah.

A

I think we'll be able to Beaufort yeah. Oh you know I'm people infer and then for something else: yeah we're not that good drink.

E

This type really has that good generic arguments count, but.

L

D

D

So I think this is everything we have said so far proof now we still need to talk about other founded here, which is the what semantics to be give that type and so basically what any noise to do right. He has to create a center. She derivative of systems or type it represents those positional references and other question is: when you call methods on this guy, what does it do? Does it go up? Does it return?

D

No ops like well, whatever you call get, never isn't that guy I see all what happens when you say I, don't know the clear method right, that's good knowledge at that bed-leg era, the I mean I, don't know what do we do for existing stuff like what would what do or generic yeah I wanna write.

K

One or equal to models here and the type B constraint or is the constraint recorded so when I, you know why not well.

N

K

N

Methods can be overloaded by constraints so well with.

E

That capital, but there's no need to address that right. I mean unless you think that c-sharp, 7.1 or C sharp eight is going to introduce whatever.

K

I'm not thinking that I'm just saying you know what, since we are talking, the manner like what method should be callable to me, like metal model of this thing is basically.

I

K

The straight so if it's not constrained, it's system.object I think.

D

Let's say if we ever have to support overloading based on constraint and I think the method we just introduced would have to get an overloaded base allows you to specify the wrong strike. You're. Looking for and then ya be exposed to constraint.

N

D

The constraint.

N

Is basically don't care because it's not an Ambu, it's not at the same year, traditional information.

D

N

Helps decision-maker and I.

D

Think in IO the constraint is effectively just a type right kind. What's the point of special.

E

D

And so yeah, if.

N

E

It's overloading based on constraints, because I mean there are times that I wish, just based on class versus structure that the, if they do it will just have to come back. This will get the I, don't care finding kur constraint and then the next overload would like it. But then we'd have to come up with a way of encoding. The word struct as the constraint so I, really a c-sharp restrictions.

K

I thought it was more bad metadata, runtimes respected, so let's I'm not proposing that we do it and I, don't think that you actually do it, but for the mental model, right I'm thinking that that he kind of has the methods that you would get if you consume, because the properties.

N

Okay, I am making everything I can make pro not supported from or.

I

Just a they reserve, our future.

N

Options, I kind of listen below, though the ones that I keep you don't need. You need to worry for this to be working place so.

L

What are the things there's? No, it's.

N

I scroll back a little bit starts there. We go pipe members included by see different types, and you went through this whole list here.

D

N

He's not here, which is I'm just proposing it just hours.

K

So, basically, like a query property suit, you want to implement yeah.

D

K

Make to create drag.

D

Modifier is basically right. So what do our existing generic parameters do?

D

N

Do the same thing as opposed right now: they they do all kinds of fun things. Typically, you even can't get methods on them and then they basically call get methods based on their constraints and all kinds of weird I mean these are actual definitions, so they can. They can do that so.

D

Many sweeping when you say t essentially the capital T, get methods yeah. It will call get methods on T on.

N

The constraints on its constraints basically act if the constraints are its base, class works.

D

Accordingly, so.

N

D

I see is being literally looking at list of T like the the actual generic time. Then it would basically give you the members of object that is yeah.

N

Somebody I guess finds it useful, I, don't know.

L

N

Was just implemented.

K

That's what you can call if you create a nice definition returns. True, no.

E

Signature type soda will call you I, don't think those would get constraints yeah, because the the constraints apply to the crap, the delians difference between the parameter and the argument, but one of them has a constraint.

E

I can't range applies to candidates, not to positions. Yeah.

I

When you're looking.

E

For a method that has yeah and then if we did do, allow overloading based on constraint, then fine you'd say t2 and we give it a base. Class input, so you'd say make a positional one whose base class was positional zero. So that would give you the you quality.

K

But it can also be a static method, correct or additional.

I

K

In the method signature not on the types, the type.

E

Right so again, so I really.

E

So yeah, so my only concern about. However, this thing gets implemented had to go. Is that somebody be able to expect it without a mix? Okay, all right yeah. So whether this we add, there's some big enum list of what kind of special type thing am I dealing with some.

I

Other it's we had a new special type flag or.

E

We had a the behavior that this looks exactly. We.

M

Don't have a person.

E

Except it returns a little.

F

E

Method binding or whatever, okay, don't we have.

N

Type of the type we do, but it's an it's an internal type, so you can't really talk about it in a nap I.

N

E

Care that somebody can detect. Okay, isn't.

D

It a variant of this thing here.

N

Is generic I'm.

D

Sorry, what so this is the guy Jamie just proposed, like we yeah, we yeah, we could add. Another is predicate, it would be like. Is generic.

N

Method. Alright, oh yeah! That's why.

D

I think what he wanted.

N

Was weighted distinguish, you know, is this. The result diversity is, which is either define a poly interface and all these implementer of something out about. But now that's right is generic method parameter. That is as a useful thing they had, but it's not I'm just saying it's not what Jeremy was I, don't believe, that's what Jeremy was talking about and what would it be that Jeremy just wanted I think what in a way to be able to distinguish? Is this a regular type, or is this one of these news.

K

That help I, because once you just wrote, is basically you now you've got the methods. Now you can say give me generic parameters and these things will be genetic parameter.

N

K

Now its generic.

N

Method parameter, that is a that, is a useful API addition, even for like regular price is it you know you shouldn't have to like allocate a method in focus tones which flavor it is I'm.

A

Saying like yeah, that's so when you, when you look at the metal generic parameters today, you.

L

Already have the methods.

A

Or something so you're gonna get order types. We should not change the oil.

K

L

You are saying.

K

That the name is generic method parameter would be bad better easier for this concept. Oh not for this new concept that is different yeah. This.

D

Is what I had in mind? So if you know this guy, this guy will give you not shroom right, but.

K

I think we should reserve this method, this property name for the the other concept. I mean the definition. Oh no.

N

O

N

O

N

Each point is array and his buyer for that sub to work on these guys as well. I mean.

A

G

N

A

Kind of use this make sure it method parameter how catching you know someone's own info when I didn't inspect the method, if I'm gonna get different type for the fourth parameter, right, sure different object, propagation doesn't hold anywhere else. Whenever I ask for something you know, method I can then compare, and they are exactly the same. So that's a new thing that is a yes that is yeah.

N

A

N

We're making a decision what you pass in together, producing.

A

The signature type or reference type like.

N

Honestly, we are doing that yeah, it's gonna I would call it stated. Reference start to me means something.

A

A little bit different, it means Athena.

N

We try to choose if that left. You know what see that's going signature, whatever part is subtly different, so yeah I think.

D

This one today, the truth, you know the.

O

D

This example, as well as the you: yes, yes, if you have the definition, yeah yeah. Yes, thanks all this little book, so me I think. The only thing we could do is instead of calling it. This, you could say, is generic parameter.

K

Really wanted to the p.m. children, which is called the metros mega generic parameter reference, which maybe is sexy.

D

K

I'd be okay with it Tom I'm, okay, which is the method to.

N

Make nobody learning is that we're not not without also having feeling is array, reference or stuff like that, even marrow? You know you hate that thing tell you and then call make rate I turn it. What you get back is a signature type that that, if that's gonna answer truth, it is array. That's that's my proposal and.

K

So, basically are saying that we don't need to distinguish between resulting array and that's.

N

Right we're not even for all the other flavors, so it would seem hard to do it for this. That distinct, this one I think what Jeremy I just wanted was awaited. I distinguish between just you know the rigid, the classic type and the signature type just in general, regardless of what type of flavor it is I think that's what he I believe. That's what he was asking for, but.

D

I think the the high order bit was. We will now so basically the so. The problem is: if I get the generic parameter from the actual method of drugs, I can call get members and it will succeed right if I do mention Eric method parameter. Then I cannot do this. That's correct, so hold it up front. What I can do fair enough, so it's a one way. You want to know which type University came. Probably well I mean it's one way to do it like.

D

The other thing is to say like is this a you know? Is this a reference or as as a definition essentially.

N

I mean I'm, just saying we don't know, we already have type universes. Of course you are there's regular types and his breath amid types and they have again, they have a hold there, a whole different type universe and I.

L

I

If there's a product.

N

I guess this is dynamic, maybe I don't I, don't.

K

N

K

More generic property and just call it is type reference. This type reference would mean it's a fake time like don't don't try to do anything with it.

N

See if site reference to be means, you know that much higher so.

D

Yeah the thing like the reason, I don't like reference in general- is that it implies as a result somewhere, which we don't have right. You cannot go from it when the get method.

K

Is kind of the result right you know, I'm gonna get the method. Then it's gonna actually have those parameters that are kind of resolved right.

N

But it's it's this. If the point is to me type reference means some. You know something that you represent in ACMA with that.

K

Font I agree, the dress is so overloaded. It's kind of we.

N

Reference already, the meaning is not so significant, it's kind of what it's it's kind of the closest nomenclature yet I see, but it.

K

See how its general we can talk about the neighbor, the general concept I started to like, instead of having like many different queries, it's like is it the signature? This is signature. It's like this is the signature type, and then you call some other method. Like is a right to find whether it's a signature array or that lips are not array and I will write back right so that this signature type is basically like. Is it one of those yes and.

N

You want to add that predicate to be a surface area. That's that's. Fine. I have no problem with that.

A

Dili like a knife, it's array, oh say: yeah, put a little signature panels, return.

K

Basically true for is array and true for this new properties, yeah.

L

What, if you do list off that thing in the list of what like.

K

List of T and then and then you get work well.

A

It's like make array right, you know, I can do as well. Like you know, instantiations over do things right, yeah,.

O

A

O

It is still return, no.

A

No, yes! Yes! It is it because.

N

Like is it, it doesn't mean.

A

Contains somewhere in there a signature or is it like the signature type itself.

N

The way I see it is that signature types aren't have all these restrictions that most of the methods thrown on supported. That's that's kind of the practical upshot and the part of the proposal is that if you call type, if you call, if you take a regular type, it may call make generic type and one of the parameters you pass main types is a signature.

I

N

Then what you back is a signature type message: that's a generic instantiation, so it is viral in that way. I.

A

Don't think so it's viral right because you can list off bang, 0, bang, bang 0! You can call. What are your methods and stuff you don't have to throw is, unlike on do bang bang 0 and the same for array of bang bang 0 right, you know, I mean.

J

We could but I just don't I mean I, don't know, I don't see, I, don't see really did like you know. Making it like you know. Viral is gonna, be actually harder to implement. This actually he'll see t-shirt. What is this? Who.

N

Wouldn't support most part, you depart you.

O

Example can agenda so I think you have to raise the T yeah.

N

No publicity to your seniors fall that would be false. Well, we can't you, you mean type of list up bracket bracket right, you can't actually say type list of chartreuse yeah.

O

I got it okay. Now let.

N

Me fall yeah. That would be false. Okay, that's what I would say you.

O

Know it's a different. Is that what you were asking yeah so hold on a week? What do you want to say? Yes, why do we, why okay, okay, so this is.

A

Only that this would return true. So what does the bank? What is the difference like airing of something and list of some you scope.

N

What does payments you're, referring.

O

N

Really right so.

G

N

What you say is type of this bracket bracket Cohen, make a generic type and then pass it in one of these signature types yeah now without what you would get back is something that would return true for this signal tired. Why.

O

So why so, if I make out of the signature type a list I get false, but when I make area of it, I get true. No, no! No! No! No okay!.

N

As I said it would, you would recall, type of type of list, your thought and don't make known unless yeah in generic type time a generic parameter, whatever you will get back, div ID signified you will return true for his signature time. Okay and this we don't give us- will.

A

N

It's really why.

A

So definitely you know, but I look at it like we're. Basically asking like you know, is it open generic? Is there some open generic variable? That's what that's a mess! Okay, it's a very well! This is similar or similar to that right. Well, it's viral yeah.

J

K

Okay, open to this side, you can start closing and actually then end up with a you know. Yeah I was type and instantiate it this one, you cannot ever. You cannot do any like yeah Tony. It's no use for.

N

The search pattern you get record yes,.

K

Okay, if I was really what I'm saying is this property that we are about to hand? It basically means it's one of those times. You cannot close it and you cannot ever get an instance of it basic, that's right, so if it's of this other type universe, fair enough, okay, all right, if signature type, this I mean doesn't drink like this is the good name for me. Okay,.

D

So I think the only have two options like option number one is: he makes this property very specific to what this method produces. There's one option. The other option is we generalized. The consequence is something that we can explain. I mean I go. If the go of the ladder, then I think we need to convey the fact that these are essentially like synthetic types right, yeah like open like just like rev. It is a different.

A

Universe is the third type universe or partially constructed Tyler you and call them, and we tell if something is from the remedy code universe or not not.

N

Sure, maybe there's a third party to create all the time Q versus they walked. So it's okay! Oh yeah! Sorry! Yes,.

D

Non-Core but yeah.

N

Yeah, oh I, delegate, there's kind of a semi university on its own, so yeah.

D

It's like to do when they vote this. We've done this. One is any other one of brixon vs army.

N

Really you wanna try to get doing a predicate really instead of adding method. Predicates. This point should be just you know, expose a class abstract class, seek new types as all senior types derive from you passed checks. That's really that that's writable toda after then, like great, you know, generic type I, never saying like. Oh, it's, no, no baby, just an additional type, the lies between system pipe and all of our internal senior calculations. Sure.

A

N

Because you want to say like true true all those things then little, then you would have to have list of this type.

A

N

I

N

I have to be able to I have to have a really represent senior types of they're. Just generic parameters see the types of their arrays of those by reps. Are those pointers of those generic instances of those and and just up to any level of competition? I already have to have that my patient.

K

K

Fair enough fair enough right, I'm playing with it today, it doesn't mean, like you know, but this you have the expertise itself exposed and enough struck to signature type.

N

Property or or more partial to it class because you know we it it makes it it also. It makes this more accessible. Also, we could like they make make generic parameter a static on signature titles. Our time, which you know arguably is a little more natural turn could use a night where you proposing, like that I actually expose system dot. Signature type ever do for hi.

K

Which inheritance.

N

Lovely and now all the methods are there right, if you don't Evers anyway, if you need to tell the difference, you just do a cache. You know you doing is different to me. That's more.

A

Naturally, the type hierarchy instead of having you know yet another ace yeah then so.

O

My concern would be we don't do it for other subtype, sometimes go to say that we don't do anything. We didn't do traffic yeah.

D

I think the only reason we did it for FM it was because we needed to add new AP is like basically like the as you start with the Assembly Bill. Then you define side, they defined. As you define a model. You define.

K

Sorry we have type builder and stuff like that. Wasn't all the types this.

L

K

Don't expose publicly subtypes of system type do.

N

We do remit type builder. Pipe builders are.

D

Subclass of type in Wisconsin- and this is a lesson you may have heard- of type info- which we kind of like dropped on the floor, but yeah I mean it is, if I mean, but in Jenny speaking, it's sure like as in like. We don't want to do this front leg, basically for generics, for example or 4.0, so we don't have the pointer typing on it. The array type right. We just give you Curie arguments on the drive, basically yeah. You.

K

Always deal with system all right. In most cases, main line scenario deal with system type and then including Parrish, a.

N

Yeah type of shape we did by properties but tiny implementations of type universes. We do five subclasses, that's just tell reflection. Did it.

A

This feels more like back universe, oh yeah, it is a fact universe, yeah, so.

L

Let's go into their class subclass.

D

This, but this is something like an area like I'll, be doing a service or disservice. If we make this public it's hard to tell what we you mean the subtype yeah, because I think in ref emitted canisters of purpose, because, first of all, you have to builder suffix and you have actual net you api's on those guys.

K

Like I said it's like she's religious, it's very yeah, it is reflection like if you wants to kind of work that I hurt you times, you would have to use those new API C will have to create instances of this time and it.

O

Would be nice if it's so different rivers is kind of implementation. Each detail so true sank.

N

These signal types are very restricted functionality, as Jeremy says it's it's. You kind of want people to know that up front a so.

A

We would with them now I need.

N

A

Just either property or type card, that's what we're discussing we need to expose that. We just don't know right now. How right sir, are you gonna use is like prefix or as a keyboard yeah, the only.

D

Difference so I think that if we like, if we ever end and end up with like exposing, for example, other con, it's like overloading based on constraints, for example, then I had someone. I can see this being something that we want to extend more and then maybe maybe that's where it had her acute would makes yeah I think it's more future proof, but.

K

The weekend know we can still do it. This property will still work, I mean it's, you know like yeah, it's not that we are screwed I.

D

Mean even that this is kind of like it started. What many people who you frequently it's? Probably okay, if it's minimalistic and API surface, unless there's more features, if we need to feel API service for so I would almost say: let's go up a property and it's not make the type public for now and then, let's see where this leads, there's the basic question nickname so you say: signature tag, yep.

L

And let's try to wrap it up here, spending more and more on one hour on this one yeah, this one geez, there's an O. Yes, it was interesting discussion.

O

It's very interesting and here's what people say on the recording I wasn't calling.

K

Three hours oh yeah, well, other patients have already died.

L

D

They haven't guide, it's just a be having resolved.

A

I'll try to find some easy ones after this one I think my heart is all bad, so.

D

Yeah that identifies the implementation positioner.

L

D

I probably say you see, The Times starts yeah yeah make sense. We proposed to go with something more Americans bad.

D

Exam that could equally why two references to generic type.

E

G

The signature type.

D

Virtual virtual virtual rule.

D

O

D

D

With it do by default, against will be my pro not supported.

N

It is not supported or weekly can fall. Some I guess. Yes,.

K

We don't have ability to create signature types yet and interests, that's it. That's fine. I can't come with that. So now, since we, the property is called a signature type. Would it be better to for the name that makes one of those to eat? We were just ear length. I was checked at you, yeah.

D

K

We can, we can.

D

I mean: what would we call? It then make signature parameter.

D

K

What how do we differentiate between methods and types, then we don't need to because we don't ever need to create signature. We might want extend it. If you tracking the order not close at all, then we call it make genetic signature parameter for type.

K

Signature pipe instead of parameter or make signature type.

A

Display will just make signature time, but it's in position, which means it dies already too kind of generic parameters right, and this.

D

Is my ceramic terms are types in our system? That's already true. Today it.

N

Could just be out well if we hit well, it's just it's ugly as heck. Yes, yeah I like there's no name, that's posed shirt and cap shorter, but.

K

This doesn't read: well, it's main genetic signature. What is your that accidentally? Oh we leave. It really make parameter for genetic signature.

N

If that's ok on nothing meaner, another primer, though okay I mean yeah.

K

N

The only other reputation is graph admit, but Rothman has its own five states. So it's I, don't think news. A major.

D

Parameter or a finer than their yeah.

K

All right that was easy, a.

D

Pra ready for review, okay.

M

K

I feel so much better. Every two issues so far boom.

D

Free by ref, like is.

A

It easy, oh, this should be easy. Okay, you got five minutes.

O

We approve the attribute.

A

O

Approve it, we actually.

A

So we already approved it because we were blocked on c-sharp finishing their stuff and they did that. So if you scroll down.

K

So now we yeah they really have. We already decided the name for this concept being pirate like so that's I'm, saying I, think I only I'm. Basically now in this meeting away, reduce.

N

Yeah so that decision seems to been made, so we call this pirate but everywhere so it's Emma you're there to your.

O

N

A

K

Space make our faces, it.

A

Is there it's actually over down down there at the bottom? It was my red light IRA. Oh.

C

Yeah Ida mine- this is rough, like a tribute we'll.

O

Say, that's not it.

A

It's not the one, I have to say it. So this item unive it like system runtime comparsa, is rough like attribute yeah.

D

So then I would go in and nature, so it's ref like instead of its by reflect that's.

L

What we call the tire yes.

K

O

Which I think this we.

N

Can we should to see what the actual code says I don't want to trust this I'm just checking I, don't see it showing.

G

N

I'm in the index.

G

We have it is by ref like that. So what do we name? It is by breath like alright.

L

I'm gonna end.

C

L

Jesus mystify line.

M

L

D

Earlier, it's named.

D

Inspire up like so that's examiner.

D

L

This was actually do.

B

You have it and then crushed by marketers of progress.

A

What do you already have? Implementation pending or I, can use either contract.

D

Alright, checking for file exists directory exists is not efficient.

A

We jump to the last of reflection and we have outta here unless he wants to like you're right for your lunch anime like declared the end, probably.

L

Assigned of the syllabus ancillary Garrity's, the.

N

First deference or it's not passed that we can defer a tiny nano care of it.

D

It turns out, we have a grab bag of stuff and binding flags. Yes,.

I

It seems a lot like.

D

A terrible idea actually.

D

Thank God, we the bunny flag, so we have yep yeah I'm, not in love, but Krista was it. So when you invoke a method, oh yeah, you read the problem: are you doing so doing a very binding flex.

D

You already have to specify any, but.

N

Party fights already weird I'm.

K

Saying it's weird because to me, binding plants is about a selection of a temper. You know of a mentor not announced it's.

N

Also, it's also about coercing argument spoke. Yes, it also controls.

D

The binding clicks does have the concept of invocation burn it to it, because you have like things like get VD or.

H

Also, you can you could say that wrapping in the thing that first target invocation exception is kind of binding and it's not going to bind that way. You said.

K

I know you have nine hundred loads yeah.

H

K

That's why I didn't say that I don't like it, because maybe that that is that I traded, beautiful fasting reflection needs is more evidence really.

G

Yeah, we think the concept is good. Oh for sure, yeah people wanted this chill. Yeah I.

N

Remember this is how I learned about likely coaches did that just work around that in a personal project, the markets to do using me off.

K

Those metal info psycho be the one that will target invocation exception or the exception. What I'm saying now we eat the property or membrane process, thus throw original.

K

So you know what the behavior will be when you're calling talk on this.

N

Day, no, no, no, you specify acetone. Yet it's not.

O

An a member, it's also.

K

N

A call sign option.

K

I'm, not you much better, so we're not gonna! You cannot like do forget members and past binding flag. I, don't know me a member, but then, whenever okay section is but not quite okay, fine I actually.

D

Like the terminology, past exceptions to any other concerns of men, I think the name no time the implication. Exceptions is pretty.

M

Laughs exceptions that yesterday performance it default has to be.

H

Yes, so you need.

D

To design map I'm deeply against one rep sounds like you're replicating the unwrapping.

D

Yeah no I think part exceptions right, I like it. Okay, anybody else concerns scrapping exceptions, I've.

H

Always wrapping exceptions, best exceptions seem like it's more general. Do we have any other enemy.

G

To me, past exceptions means don't need exceptions, kind.

H

Of like try gets right.

G

Well, then, I wish to make it specific target implication or not.

D

Well, this instance is only for target implication right, because I don't think we represent anything else.

H

That's why I don't think my point that one could read that and think that it's implying it without that flag? You have like a try pass if I get from charity where it isn't protocol yeah. Well, it may still throw I know. But if you see if I say passed, exceptions, no I don't expect to get an exception. No, you know it just means. If you pass exceptions, it means you would expect, through the uncensored exception, but yeah I mean I'm, telling I'm positive to false I. Don't expect to get anything far. Yeah I am.

K

H

May understand it that it doesn't.

K

N

You don't really set it to false it's an or masks if.

H

We may expect that I feel with exceptions. Read the co. Nacional is a hidden past exceptions they're like oh I, guess this one isn't gonna, throw all that, except if you don't forward exceptions, then.

D

A very rapid doesn't mean that you don't get no exception, that just.

K

Knows that up exceptions? Don't.

D

Know wrap targeted location.

G

D

What we want dot as it was meant to be yeah, I, guess or just no target of a patient, show.

K

What the original.

H

Dissolving with the negative flying out of a question, because it's too unusual, then yes, because then you with but.

D

We can make it the default right in the score on exception at the pollen. This you know.

O

D

Would you get the other guy if it's not a positive.

H

Okay, so why did we pick a name? Don't drop exceptions do not wrap. The problem is I've had so many issues in my career with negatives like you, then you negate you negate and pretty soon you have no understanding. Maybe.

K

It's just good.

H

Usually I thought like what is the solution to it, but do you propose well that's why it's like it's just I think avoid. Wrapping to me doesn't count as a negative in my brain, so we just gonna try to avoid like do not means to me that I have to negate in my brain it's maybe I I.

D

Think I mean I, guess II codebases friend like this right, you say: finding Plex, public or finding Flags do not grab exceptions, but I think that actually does a really good job telling you what is happening right avoid. You do not feel the same.

K

I mean because you coming in both your as a cast member I, guess that is actually a good.

N

Point would you have a testifying Evoque member, exactly the one where you pass, the milk member is a big one that does binding and indication and all in one package. That's where you that's a necessary where you combine those flags would.

H

You ever test the blank. Oh, that.

D

Means if I, if I, call the the getvalue method, there's no binding flex overload right. That means. I now have to do binding and invocation in one step to get that behavior, because that was a valued value property and for I've been Adam.

N

Get value there is, there's a give value. The stakes part finding.

K

Class yeah, when you come like, for example, you know the one a metal base and I see you never gonna pass anything else all right by me. But what do people pass today when you already have a member there.

N

You either be the exact, pointing or nothing I think.

H

There's no glaze, it just take an object right. They probably are yeah.

N

It's true in order to take that you have to call it more complicated overload, which much does suck, but you have to I. Don't know how you'd avoid that I.

H

Mean arguably, if we go back in time, you might want to use that the destructor with parameters pattern, maybe do for persist. I info, you know what I'm talking. What is the culture that you basically give a struct in one a lot of options: bad yeah? What.

K

Is the country.

N

In the metal base that invoke sorry, country I just pass a binder which can do whatever it wants for coercing prize.

K

N

K

Why is it not just a public, you think.

D

K

Pass it and I neva.

D

Belov moment.

K

D

I mean come on.

H

How many people use the culture there? One yeah.

D

I mean: is there I just do a quick search sheet? I can actually.

D

There's the method get radiance a period, get me I'll drink it. We live of object, object, array and.

K

D

For one, the kind it does suck.

D

Can I pass him now for the binder? Oh yeah, that's the same as calling get object. It's called it's this part the same as passing pipe top default binder, and so then, basically, in order so I could pass it now. I could pass it now now and then I only have to specify the banking panics.

H

D

Not terrible well.

H

It's not very readable when we de curve, no normal, not discoverable. You.

K

Don't know that you can I guess.

N

The other alternatives to add overloads, hey.

K

D

I think fundamentally, like overload seems like a trouble, especially because the whole thing thing is virtual right, like that's.

H

And then you might get value today, you're pretty much gonna map it match it one-to-one weekend with caching an unwrapped in targeting exceptions right so I don't know. Are you saving a lot of effort like you've now got a right yet value differently when you save the catch, it's not as if you're doing this one. So.

D

H

D

Know it's actually more than that because think about it like if you, if you can start an invocation exception. Yes, I can stash out the original exception, but then, after we store we're all writing the stack trace. So I have to do the right thing to filter the filter. So like debugging debugging, that's yelling, yes, yeah, like yeah, you basically catch an exception that shouldn't have it's all in the first place, so I think, generally speaking, I think you do have a net saving. If you won't do it correctly, so I don't.

H

Think it'll always wrap exactly one exception like it. Never has an error exception. Yes,.

D

H

When you can throw it.

D

Directly and it's no inner exception, but yeah, let's you're a bad person where you do that anything, but some methods of method in for good measure.

D

Nobody cares about events um that.

D

But there's no little bits on method base. Oh I'm, like.

D

And it will be the same opossum distance, finding flags. No, no! No! That's not terrible all right who.

H

Thought considering the base, so property info get valued the horrible one with the five parameters as 50% usage on net effects. Compare lab fifty-fifty, yeah I'm, not surprised so rule, but look I, guess they're trying to toss binding flags. They didn't care about the rest interpreting all of something the others are all lower. Those I mean bonkers.

H

I'm gonna set about you all.

D

K

D

Meat speechifying did you guys actually ever feeling like trolls by the chatter, alright happy with that and I think you can try to do one more, but having do not paint in ep info booty ins I would agree with you, I, say I. Think four flags is not as bad.

H

Because the way you're composing the flags, it is bad, but this you're, usually just touring them and passing them in so you're, not doing anything complicated, dis.

L

Implemented as well I know you want to make it up for grads ah I.

G

Think he really wants to take this one. One I think.

N

He wants to take it, yeah I, don't know, I, don't mark it up with rehabs, but I'll probably do one. It grabs it a couple weeks.

O

It's all people who use.

A

This thing, how good you feel in that case, when you compare office, unassign it from yourself and put on the market up for grabs and preserve some notes. What are the next steps?

A

Okay, thanks! Alright, thank you. I think! Please don't follow another for next week.

N

D

Five minutes, I, don't think so. This one could be this. One is great, though, right yeah, except that it was not.

B

Clear, like yesterday, I, don't think it's five minutes already orally, okay. So next one.

D

Because this this talks about a location that I went to other stuff. But it's a bit more complicated to explain.

O

D

Coding, reasonable people astray I think they're implementing perfect this right now by the way said down there, it's easier. We should talk about, but only a few minutes. That's special I'm saying um they shouldn't check it in until then you're free, so.

A

I'm down this, but it's my first of the week worried, but it's it's very rhythmic and down there.

D

Your readers have the notion of an encoding.

K

Thanks readers, yes, you can pass the text reader and it will undertake ok.

D

You cannot set it correct when.

K

D

K

Do you can about like.

D

Person ever video reading.

K

D

Consider how does it even work on console, because.

L

D

Out, which is I, think a text reader alright. So what happens when I override the open encoding and then I started writing to it? You changed it. What do you mean by overrides so I can specify the console, output, encoding right and then I can say so. Let's say: I set this to utf-16 right and now I say: console dot out, authorized mine. If we didn't change the out like how do we.

D

Think it is written, it makes sense. It's.

K

Just a question of like so I didn't artist. The whole thing so is the proposal to add an API process, starting for that is like the console, output, atomic type and.

D

We're sure whites only input I would expect it to be input and output. I guess I'll put you can specify right because it's up to the processes right.

C

Well, let's connect open, encoding and start her encoding already exists.

O

D

Anon cookies, this is just.

K

Really, what the standard input a phobia is: okay, well,.

M

No, it's! No! It's nothing as well.

D

So processor info class provides and an open encoding, sent an error encoding to a local store at the encoding for those the Sigma changes the encoding past. This dream reader object with reps and the line processed bite straight to mourn, actually support talking to a process that uses different encoding of the current. We should so I guess with what they're saying if we should also add this one. Yes, if that makes sense now so for some reason, we didn't do it for a prolonged if output short, that makes sense if.

C

You go down, it's more explained, a.

K

Bit confused so there's already a way to specify those colleagues but.

A

Not input only put out there we're missing the input.

H

You'll see points out, but, as you guys know, the default encoding is different in core, so meaning it's more useful than in the past to be able to choose the encoding.

D

Output in cooling power to Kiev.

H

D

It starts turning.

K

Okay, oh yeah I understood it though I believe I.

D

K

N

Somewhere, you that's.

D

Not what you're supposed to do it seems bad yeah.

D

D

Memory intensive that other ones.

D

Do one minute over so I would say: that's it in the 18 issues. We.

H

Went up to six find another hour later.

D

In a week to keep the keep the train going, oh you like this wait till Tuesday I would just I mean given every next. I don'ti next week is in other reviews. We could just spend another two hours again, the African Jews, but.

B

Two hours, the.

A

Rest is like smallish and, let's not forget that we didn't do proper review since end of May or in our mid June. Something like that. Okay,.

H

Api approved so how many API approved I know Oh.

O

Obviously, pub for.

A

250 PS top 30, maybe.

O

D

But we don't care right because I mean only them.

H

20 them up for grabs, we have literally 40 that probably all of them or my stole could be my capsule grebs. Oh yeah, I'll poke at that I think that people got a little bit sloppy marking that I'm not sure how often people are picking things up unless they open them themselves anyway. So I don't know that, should they are thank okay, I.

A

Would say that especially we see like you know, one new contributor every week almost or you know every two weeks like over summer and people from time to time at time, and they pick stuff right.

D

Then I don't know whether we lost even their juror I assume. The answer is no. This layer perfect.

A

And he's listening: oh alright,.

D

Then things online and then see you later thanks. Three bye.