.Net Foundation Design Reviews, 5 Feb 2019

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From YouTube: .NET Design Review: GitHub Quick Review and UTF8 APIs

Description

00:00:00 - Needs Work: Expose line number and byte position in line as public properties on Utf8JsonReader https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/34768#issuecomment-460749514
00:33:21 - Approved: Option to support trailing commas with JsonReader https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/34794
00:44:38 - Approved: Add (Try)GetDateTime(Offset) to Utf8JsonReader and JsonDocument https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/34690#issuecomment-460761972
01:07:45 - Needs Work: System.Text.Utf8Char data type to represent UTF-8 text data https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/34094#issuecomment-460774440
01:42:43 - Approved: Rune.DecodeFirstRune and friends https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/34822#issuecomment-460780898

A

Hello YouTube: if everything goes well, you can hear this. Otherwise, you little bit upload the recording later. um That's a good point. I should probably figure out how I can monitor the chat. Meanwhile, their way to pop it out about Cher, yes, is.

A

Don't you well, you can do this, Emma know what let's new this once: okay, nothing like! First time setup.

A

Nipples got here alright, so I think you're awesome had some requests for order right. You wanted to review the Jason one first that right, yes,.

B

A

One particular this one here: the exposed line number.

B

Letting this kill them, so the daytime expose line, number and options which support railing.

A

Remove the service and the.

B

Ad side date type.

A

This one you right, yes, all right, any order between them; otherwise you just go for them.

B

We should we will get to all the story to another. Alright.

A

Alright, so walk us through this one here.

B

So cool auditory access for today, which contains the light, number and bicep send line for their the Tokyo strange.

B

It's common wants to create your custom exceptions or want to do some custom body based on where they're in various record they would want to have use value deserve, so we wanted for them to the user example that is in dependency models where they're throwing a format exception based on chemo medicine.

B

So it's all about that is a fertility varied, but the fact that save expected sqm regualr into something. So they want to throw the line of return, the line number and by position line for where the enzyme Aviation Authority invalid Puma of this medical, utilize particular for the straight object.

B

So I I don't see a need for on the States today. I do see a need for on the leader and the reason why don't walk upon state is because, if you someone has not dented states, they have entire payload. While they not even a sentence, it seems under state to force them to use the state just for this over so I, probably having your both places. Well, ours, rather have it on you, keep a geezers just a it's. Only taking one.

B

And a lot of questions I had, is we wanna expose from both dated the entity or.

C

Is there anything that's already in the state of being public in the reader type? Is that public indistinct for, like.

B

This stuff is a bad trip into that. Linda seems consistent further I.

B

Think I know if this is ready to share this somebody for a zero simulates. It I would imagine the scenario could extend to a sink or scenarios. We give incomplete data.

B

Well, I want added until someone our bio army, for it specifically.

C

And if somebody grabs the state and then makes a new reader- and they read this property, it will immediately have what the state enema yeah. So they have them and they have a way of restoring from the captured state. Today, oh yeah, it's just not.

C

It requires more words than they.

D

Might like two questions one: do we we, where the total offset information as well as line and I offset online of vice concealed, okay and as on the state, it's got little, do whatever you got Superboy and how are we tracking the line number? Are we doing Unicode or just crlf is up okay. So if a user would open this in an editor, the line number that they see in the editor might differ from the line number that we're giving here.

B

Because this is the different in a few lines as an integral first layer. Yes,.

D

Is it worth exposing the total opposite images leader section month and part of this that way, users can no matter what what line encoding their editors using can find the appropriate location. Oh yeah,.

B

I'd like to see one of these over I mean.

D

On the exact Oh, an.

B

D

Just to complete rounding out this contract, he says if we're only counting or up whack, aah whack and then I could open a vacation file in my editor and find.

B

Out, where how do you will use information to fire a decorator which I yes, I, do I give you a letter telling us, because.

D

Most text editors tell you the total character.

C

Offset from the beginning of the forgiving of the file usually collapse to character new lines in the one character, Noah now the ones that I've used I've never seen one that tells you what the absolute positioning your Sina no.

B

Create for this as well: okay, um I.

B

Love it but other than that I. So you say: I'd add that to the different accepted and also close it, but you're you're for this book.

D

But the only thing that I'm concerned: how is that you know we parse the file or we say, belongs here and then you open it in any period it has its software.

B

They're, more than one character so at debating the buzz.

C

Means I want to report that I found a string because then I expected a string, but I got a hint they're reporting the end of the strings. That's the like. They need actually snap the state before they reach the next token I.

B

Actually different advantages, it is advantageous and you say oh I submitted in the new REDD+ and either they or don't resist. It's absolutely identical. Yes, do it. Yes, yes,.

D

This so doesn't show it the right way mean so with a people access healthy time, individual care.

C

Just like, if the meat here is to be able to ask the reader, where am I so I can report schema violation, it seems like by the time they know that the violation, the readers telling them where they will be next to not where the schema violation occurred. Yeah yeah.

C

So now this question is this: is this API really fulfilling their leader? Is it making them do a lot of work so hold on facility.

B

Holidays like today, they don't get any discipline issues right, so it is, don't ended, my people, they subtract, understand something else or theirs. After the role by pieces, some information is disclosed to them. Although.

C

Id number will be wrong and the bikers to divide will be wrong. So if you think of a standard pretty printed yeah bag, but they want to like line three position 12 and what we'll give them in line for position for right.

C

Mm, which means that they need to snap it every they need to ask for this every right before they call move next. Every time we see this become expensive for what they want. That's their.

D

Controls will be not only exposing the current leader position, but the note this would be the exception, but this is.

C

No exception was thrown, but they want to say: I was here in the document when I wanted in it and you give me a drink so so.

D

The leader should expose the beginning of the current token that is proper XO.

A

D

You're in the league.

A

That seems reasonable because it shouldn't it also very well defined right.

C

Yeah I'm just trying to picture what the code is, is that they we need to write to do this, it seems like they would need to grab by position. Align, align numbers then call whatever move next is gold and then, if they didn't like the token after they call these next and throw the previous where they save these values.

C

But ideally they would only ever need to ask for these values after they had a civilization right, but they need to read them ahead of time and if that's the way, that makes sense to do it, why it's just a little awkward that you're you're reporting you're, not reporting where you were you're reporting, where you will be you're recording what iron will start right, I.

C

D

It can be documented.

C

That way, which means, if you care for like their scenario, you have to always read it early.

A

What I think in practice? It probably doesn't matter too much, because you know almost pardon you do it for diagnostic purposes: sighs, so you get them you guys within the vicinity of where you want the error to be right, I!

A

Think! If you really want to you, if you really want to build an editor, that does something nice line number and is not going to do much for you anyway, because in order to get as quickly you would have to know the length of the token, for example,.

D

Yeah we're telling you like here's where.

C

Like this is where, in the document I expected a string or a number or whatever right now, it will be reporting if you're, like I, expected a string and you're looking like, but there's a quote here: it's a property name like what do you mean you expected a strange because I'm always reporting off by one token, it's like right now on Linux, we report exception block like real I'm, really annoyed.

A

Yeah note that one back in C.

B

So, if you're right in the play, that's motivating this API, the schema validation. This will actually give you information for each one by one, but in general, for diagnostic purposes: adding this for public property or a state of the dish reader. It still useful as.

D

It yeah I think it's so useful, I think the question is: should we also be exposing start of previous token or some or something like that that we users can say here's where the reader is now when it found the exception? Here's where it was before and now I'm able to decide do I want to say that the error was a schema violation and therefore you know here order I want to say, like I, encountered an invalid character errors here, yeah.

B

For tracking both to be a star token and the current star token is a lot of work. I don't know if you want to take that performance regression so.

A

D

Is B? Is that actually a lot of work, or do you just need to update it after move next.

B

Little dozen guns without the move method, whoa.

D

B

D

B

D

Next, you should be at the start of the next token and then you for here I guess you could do it, you would do it, so you can still do it almost next. You would just say Oh. Next, then start of previous token is first issue and then user processes, the text and before the Commons next they may encounter this ariseth in the reader would be passing that foot before the next token I left, for it.

B

Off if Optimus, you update the hero's Naberius token to something that you've not found out. How do you know what the biggest looking was having over the simulators as well? I came here, we'll start with zero zero yeah.

D

These thing will say: give me give me current tech, and so start will be very beautiful out of token, and if you don't encounter errors and keeps your calls back, you'll update, you defended your next token and and the reader in art and the tokens that were being sick.

B

Ok, so before you global net, you have total charge that move that you update the feeder Stauffenberg. Yes, but Salomon. This user says I. Then move next I see it's a string. Let me tell you soon: yeah.

C

I think if you want to convey that it's where the next read is going to start, you should just build anything on the reader, because I would look at this and I would see if I called move. I would expect me remember to be where the computer, instead of where the token I mean none of the token, can actually straddle a line.

C

But I would expect some ice position aligned if you will start instead of one submit well, because you'll you'll proactively path like space, so you can be reporting on the world wide because that's where the next token will surface so I think you know next line, never next right position of mine or somehow working in their notions. That is about what you still work, you're about to do a little work. You've already done right, so I need to.

B

Finalize we different from that, you show you get acceptance, just assistant does there's an intersection does exactly when five site-specific. It's happened before you get to the legs. Okay, because.

C

You're wearing it with like I will I'm a despite in the string and things when I saw an illegal new wine right. So so I said it.

B

Is that um yes, it's legal current death, a thousand five, they took it. What you read, the should Disney corker lining occurred by Christian life supposed to give for it just take the needed a new spot. So what's the current and it different from what was for your head baby.

C

I mean like large little me documentation, but it feels like current them. The reader has into the state and next or line number is about what the next token going to be like you actually don't even know that, that's where the next token is going to be because yeah, if you're in a sequence thing and you if you are doing the multi load, all you know what you finished reading here. The next call can feel capable inch of white page four five six connected.

C

So this actually doesn't tell you anything right, so they can trigger that number right. So I think this is actually you. It's like it's useful in the final state where you can be deterministic about everything, but in the in the general case, you can do nothing with this.

B

To Emma's point is the general vicinity over layers or obey the schema. It says in that additional card yeah.

A

I would not go as far as Jeremy, to said, I wouldn't say the useless right. I mean if you parse a for megabyte document, I mean even if the error is not precisely where it should be. You would expect that it's to better than just telling you I blew up somewhere.

C

All of it, a lot of it, will come down to the context of whatever the person who's using the skins like if a saying I saw this property and I expected it to be a string, and it was a numbers and they told you the name of the properties of looking at now, the approximate location, the so the problem I have is where it says, like schema, it's just a schema violation occurred at line seventeen light position, seven and it really occurred either.

C

You know later because there's a bunch of white space or on a previous line, because it was the previous token, like it's very misleading when you're watching it. Something like this looks legal, but the error was actually from somewhere else.

C

And then yeah, so then, with the multi with the multi segment read. This could be any arbitrary amount of white space before the token that they were upset about right.

B

So you know, there's a motivating factor was the schema, validation and I have a solution for that very actually doing like giving the exact a later analysis. Key markers like that I think as far as diagnostic information for their IV, they are currently in Felicia.

B

Still valid signal are just work somewhere in there without the weather, so they decide to use, there's a special message just to give the N over seen over there in that FEMA code, for the users that have to go up to the columns recordings API, but is a community around the state of the editor? So then, I like slimes, like.

C

Famous, so my feedback is somewhere in there. I look at these names. I feel this is where the cream, with a last successful, call to move started, and this is actually where the last successful calls to move ended right now. I would try and work work that into the name somehow, but it is definitely in fact mutation. Oh yeah,.

B

Now the goodbye to your brother is this involves. How do we decide the getting useful information to the people who wanted to our inception, and essentially the next lender? Was the correct Knight number correct by positions? Yes, so actually, I have to interfere app offline as well modify this API for that scenario, because if either they do not get in the right position, it.

B

I'll buy respect my third girl line number burned by Buddhism, but I don't want to do it next, because that you clearly clearly, okay, if you want to ratify a.

B

More tradition.

A

Sorry I want to take a note regarding which part.

B

The current line number card by position in life, or can we just leave it as is or I.

A

B

I should because well.

A

I think the first thing we need to we need to figure out is the design will evolve in one.

A

So I was just writing down what we just discussed, that we are generally fine with the exception, but the problem is said: if you want to use it for schema validation and we exposes them the reader, then the problem is utter on the stage the problem is said, we don't have the correct position that people will likely expect so I think that some innovations that we probably want to go offline think about it in then come back to an updated couples and then, depending on what these five positions represent yeah, we should make sure that their that the naming makes sense I'm, not sure that current adds much because if you expose them, it's kind of implied that it's you know.

A

Of course, it's the current line number the question of just what current means in this context, right.

B

These noxious values will have these API designers. Of the discussion, of having precise positions and forth is imitated no.

A

B

A

I think it is but I good, but if you just said ready, you should probably write the doc that you would put our move next or on the actual line number and by position api's to describe what the behavior is. Then we can say is that simple we want is that something people can likely reason about right.

D

A

So let me just paste in what I just said and.

D

I think, if nothing else exploding, just the sport allow users to track the current acoustician cells if they needed to.

C

Monitor particular module.

C

They work fine in the in the case where you have only the one buffer, but in the async case it will tell you the last time it read a valid token, where it stops at the end of the site. So if you have pages and pages and pages of white space, it'll be wrong for comments or get away. So what you want is the next token after this position, it's up to you to figure out where the next token started out.

C

So that's algorithm would always be right, just stuff, it's just a little loosey-goosey with that you're.

A

All right, no copy and pasting happens. Oh I got a run even signed in to say that.

B

C

Knows that that has on that time, yeah.

B

Right this way, there's a league live stream and the tokens only good.

C

For like two minutes, okay,.

A

And if you can get my password, you more more power to you. Yeah.

C

Every password link.

A

All right, so let me just update this to say API. What is it need to work? Okay, all right. Next one, you started with another Jesus quest, okay, fine.

B

A

Knows why you have to refresh their page but hey.

C

In case there was data that you will secret now you can seek I guess.

B

Coming here on the second post, the cigs.

C

And page down team up so I.

A

Was just meeting it was actually today.

A

Okay, so what do you want to handle? You want to handle trading company.

D

Come on yeah! Well, if we want to part any of our own Jason files, we need back. That's.

C

Why really yeah so so awesome you and I talked about this I think last weekend. One of the things that I had suggested is I wonder if we maybe need a like loose versus strict option on the Jason Reaper we're loose will basically say. Allow comments. Allow trailing commas like basically just try to do the right thing, even if it means that you're, effectively cutting and strict would say like no, you actually have to follow the artsy.

C

um Would it make sense to introduce us and then have a bunch of these other little sub properties, hidden underneath it or at least rolled up into that it.

B

Kinda, does it make sense, I mean everybody came in uh to basically have a cat oil. Is we accept everything but I want what you just officially opted into. Things are their baking. Then, if.

C

You want an accelerator salutes I, think that would just be Jason reader options that lose to the static accelerator; okay, sure, yeah, okay, but when you're out of that Creek, okay.

D

C

Answers I can just imagine you know several such confidence be added in the future, and it would be nice if the developer is reading, something like a config file. If they could. Just you a one-shot, like you said and say: oh wow, absolutely everything. Oh yeah.

B

That once we reach that threshold, I notice, he has with this property, but what series adventures? Maybe we have a shallot here so I- will remove the explicit opt-in option? No, no! No! No! This would be out of them right.

C

So I would either make a static property on Jason, later option called website. That is everything in the friendliest mode and then optionally also have one called strength. Returns default type where defaulting to the to anybody.

B

Combined every citizen on what other table blues would have include other than commerce feeling corner for most because things like there's. Lots of the viewers have except example, single coil Tetris between technically sings I would all those going to that annually as well or I'll. Just.

C

As essentially would be as options get a dingy harder option, boost is always the most relaxed and strict is always the default, but but the.

D

Surface trick is everything RC compliant and then lose is all optional things available, and then users could individually great options that have in between if they want Yeah right, which.

C

Probably they wouldn't probably love this cold with, but yeah that's making it the like we're gonna have the individual switches on things and then really it's for things like. If you want to to stop at the comments and read the comments like I would expect. Roush would be skipped comments instead of allow pop. So if we just move past them by default, okay, ah sorry loose would be skip comments. So anything we get more than just a boolean state. Strict versus loose doesn't cover all your scenario.

C

So then you'd want to go, make a custom yeah.

C

D

C

I didn't I didn't really want to. You know, hijack the conversation. I was just wondering if this would be the appropriate time to introduce it so that we could get people onto that convenience properly. Let.

B

C

B

You support and you can you really yeah put it forward.

B

They're probably strict and lacks ah instead.

C

Of strict ones, but the ad board one surrounding lacks adding stretch gives the API symmetry, even though what it would do is return. People, okay,.

C

Essentially, it's just self documenting with people. So your code reads: better code, B and Jason reader reader option strict.

C

So for this one we're we're just adding full I think what we were doing was adding a pool. Yeah I, can't think of any time that we would ever been. Allow trailing commas with gaining third option, so yeah I mean I, guess the only thing would be if it would be comma options allow redundant or something like so that if you had second comma comma third, but it's like oh that's- not illegal, even though the spec says it is but I think that's fine. They should.

B

Be cool yeah. The other question is, let's say you know you have a cut out over there. Boys get a comma after the end of the day, different Nets closed. Currently because, like your game today, fate or Sun, why you give me a new combo I.

C

B

C

D

I think that was the point it's like. If you have it, you could get rid of. They have an option that says like allow useless commas, but at that point, there's like no real recently. That I can think of like the primary use case.

D

For this is then I can think of a solution that always comes open like the seizure of language discussions where they start adding trailing commas is it makes it really nice to view index because then do not modifying the previous line, but oh I want to say that can make it really cover, be mandatory.

C

I think trailing commas. What of that card.

B

Is a coma? That's training, coma yeah, but.

C

B

Into the coma the opposite of their Jenna coma is the area was embedded object but I added on a root object like a hooray there's a Commodore. My name is a Big O.

D

3 there it's illegal, yeah, yeah, I, think I think it's becomes the case of like. Does this make any kind of semantic sense, or is it just like completely honest with where every yeah like like having at the end makes them semantically to make it line up everything else cetera, but just having like an additional comma after that, you would expect the parser Tuesday there has to be data before this call I mean.

A

Is it fair to say trading? Commas are only legal if the con is the immediate containing construct allows for multiple item, yeah I think that's the most ranges definition I can think of, and in that case that would agree that the booth seems reasonable because it's anything out to be clearly all.

C

Right so the only the only thing moving off a bool- and this is just thinking.

D

C

So we can decide, we don't care and if we wanted to say that second comma comma third was legal, that you had too many commas between two elements.

C

That seems like a thing: I'm fine, not supporting, but that would be the only thing that I could see moving the boolean from a boolean into a try see what was the use case key for that be other than like a typo type of bad pacing code or things doing injected. Writing. So, like you wrote a thing you traditional commas with you, embedding you and also wrote a comma cuz. It's not your room! So, generally speaking, our.

B

Bar for futures and options is whether or not James has it yes I. Yes, that doesn't happen fort it. It doesn't make up for sobriety. Second I'm fine.

C

Not courts. That would be the only thing that I can think of the returns, a boolean interface and I'm fine, saying we don't care well.

A

I mean you could imagine mind that you handle arrays differently from properties and but I don't think. That's very likely. There.

D

Yeah I'm Tyler, so.

A

I think in general, like I, think the idea of the trailing comma is specifically to allow people to generate effectively lists not to especially handle it off item right.

A

So in that sense the yeah, the duplicate, trailing comma, makes more sense, like your code is and I think in general, like when you say you optimize for for for copy and paste arrows, then you go down the HTML road, where any any human error that is conceivable you try to fix in the parser right at that point, I think you're losing so I would I would say. Let's just have this one thing and it seems reasonable and but not so very well decline right. If the.

A

If the parent container allows for multiple items, then it's one trailing comma is okay. Multiples are not, and commas anywhere else. As long as we go yep.

C

Okay, it's a balloon: I.

B

Will give it a name.

A

So this is the this. Is this one here at all trading ,? What else do you have on the type right now, then? They should check my.

B

A

Where's here on.

B

The different your options as this comment had lied about. It has OH.

A

It literally only had a common hemming, okay I, see.

A

Let's do you know.

C

It's bullying is default is false, so the strict mode is still like default is still stretched, so I'm right. This is why the hell I had to cut out in there yeah, so yeah I'm, going.

D

A

Right and then so, the other question was uh okay. You just mentioned comments for the sake of video, not it literally just only about 20 comments. All right, yeah comments.

D

Priority in the API yeah.

A

I thought there was some sort of like trailing comment issue or something, but no. Okay, fine, probably I'm. Just collecting coffee.

A

All right, then, I.

B

Guess interesting use kissin services, I have a comma, then I rather property when I commented out naivete Nicola. Yes,.

E

C

Mean again, this double illegal according to Jason, all.

A

Right then, I think your only agreement that this is what we want.

A

All right, so we still I, think you I think awesome you stood on. I am the should be set.

A

So probably you twenty minutes prior to be there to all three of them. That.

C

Is that I guess.

A

That is fast, fixed, aqua, usually rejections are easier than approvals. It turns out all right. So what is this one about? So.

B

We have a lot of dotnet types of oriented generator. Things like good are reading a good meeting, a same reading else in the medic type. What we don't have in supporting supporting in terms of my cows offset- and this is mainly was to encapsulate- but the leader lighter and doctors would be consistent. Every leg is a life update. You should read it and also tender document, so we can write this template and they time is food in your full, especially when it into that. So you want to add a guy gets a time and guidance.

B

Freedom offsets along with get eaten tactic, have opted on the reader and all the data. In addition now, because that there is a question around good, which is nature, I are allowed lighting. Do it now inconsistency with the goal of having all three types support all a couple types on a type because of change, moving planning, great support provider or it is a require, are from customers which it seemed like as usual tremor awkward. We want to eyes on the reader element as well. It is a good thing.

B

I know it wait it on it as good.

A

How much would this like I mean Goods have? Is super well-defined string representations all right, yeah.

C

They have three was super well-defined string, representation.

A

C

D

A

Famous said, eaten.

D

Yet these dotnet gooood parser support some weird things for the good parsing like. If it supports it, it actually parses each individual thing as its own integer. Yes, you can have C relax. The gue important.

B

C

Not nothing is on all year than event, I think a question: how are you making the determination as to how how much of just a pure chase from tokenizer to leave these types versus something that interacts with dotnet permanently? Don't have a representation in dishes on.

B

The so it doesn't measure the only business in success, but there comes to these guests on net equity is I've added this on whatever the requirements from the user world or whatever generally. What was most important from this.

D

Is the naturally Christa had brought up the.

C

For think time right he has, he has the the memory or expand or whatever he has for his utf-8 to the Jason sailors. You want to date time, which is about you type and in order to get it he has to in the middle, gets a string which is an allocated reference type and it parts it himself. So really, right now to me, it seemed like this is the the things that we're taking common things that could be 0 allocation and we're making a possible plea. Talk about this trigger.

C

Why do I can't he.

D

Just get a span and the white cap delicated string and getting spam on utf-8 sparkler. This is.

C

True big industry, the value spin so I mean affecting it with your application except except for BTS, because your pendulum escape. So he can't also be Jason documents because we don't know we don't represent here. We don't let you get back to the underlying data, because we want to support multiple encodings in the future.

C

That's a table. Bottom network welcome. The reader is fine from the document. You can't do.

B

It so Jenna media, and they again the motivation was here's. Some things of the writer supports writing date and writing them all. Set writing good and the reason independent I don't support. Getting. Is that so we wire to pay agree with that um that the neighbor reason I would.

D

Think that looks good in daytime are common of primitive values that they would be worthwhile. Exposing okay.

C

B

Then the question becomes to be how what about some think of the best time span in your eyes for other people, feedback has been, those are not common up and we don't need a supportive intelligence wrong need, but they should fall to codify. What is that borrow it's about at this point, and this is a big update- is that the good and a tenth annual report anything.

D

Can spend you can get a time span using date, station right and then for URI I. Think that it's probably proficient that you can do the allocation and get the string back today and if we get messy back, the features of URI would be a day. But.

B

So then, in that getting are removing the Galatia before the writer we're adding get grid and I get good on your Ethernet, yeah I. Think that's my opinion. Okay,.

C

Again in documentation, we need to be very clear what format we're supporting I, don't I know that the writer will have one format that it's going to write. It feels like the reader. Probably, shall we want to do that?

C

One format that we want to say this is what we believe, the wire format of a date time and if they come off that are and the wire format of a good, and if you want another format, then write it yourself and then later people ask: why don't we expose the reader going using this format types and we can end it as we get the need thing. I wouldn't get it now, when I wouldn't try all formats in.

D

Probably match for Jason Donna uses for those formats, yeah yeah, whichever form of good it does for that, whichever form of date/time it does for that. So what they've done it? Oh yeah, so.

B

I know exotic religions, big national seconds, yeah.

C

Well, he does this fractional seconds with redundant trailing zeros, removing yeah. You.

B

Can also something that javascript does it had feedback form as well. The polymers which are undereducated posture does not support that format, so either something we deviate a different idea for so we provide some sort of option on that. You click on where it says, amused and check for supporting trailing zeros yeah, although neck excluding trailing zero. Yeah thanks for supporting local, supporting training, zero for reading based data, then that doesn't contain your strength.

B

Cuz I know it's old, exactly! Oh, if you don't know yes by looking for exact match, then.

D

That seems like something that we should just support. This is trailing. Zeros are not significant enough.

A

So one question I had is on the writer. We felt it was very important to differentiate what an actual token versus. What's just the convenience overload. Why that's why we said the API name and called the token tie right. So we have write string and then there's overload for all the different kind of things you can write under. Neither we don't have that. Do we think that's good. Do we think it's bad.

B

Although pickpocketing possibility- because we are actually saying here- get data at this time- the dot that does so, we are going from adjacent okay to a dotnet tab, already read it.

D

Maybe should be called give strength as daytime if we're worried about the naming different desires in that way. It's fair that we're reading instrument forcing it to a date time resolved rather the times for a daytime token, like whatever example, familiar that get somewhere quickly.

B

To rather get into later.

D

Maybe like I think maybe what, if Jason in the future acts their own date time type token, what if they actually a common support in the future etc. Then those are things where we probably want to Ferengi between their daytime type and what we're having now, because I bet they still might.

B

Not be back so we sort of look at videos of burn ethical or did it and here in our bar. If you want look at that, you guys you can maybe one look at the react of the second person. Yes,.

A

The reason I look at this I mean maybe it's outdated, but I think. The one argument you could make is that anything that's prefix of try kind of implies that somebody has to do some parking right, because, if you're standing on a token there's no reason to call the Tri API right, the token type touch of what it is, and you know any get method will be fine, and so in that sense you can you basically they ever add their own daytime. Then the idea would be would have gets their time venue or something right.

A

And then you know the try one, the ones will be parts right would be. My guess. Well,.

D

Following the this is weird so.

C

Following the frame your guideline, it says, if you have a try, you should have trying it out something you should have the non try to return something in thrown like he has both get date/time and.

D

C

Daytime- and so you know if we expected that Jason was going to add a date/time token type in the future, which doesn't seem very likely, but if they did and we we would not really have a way out of that. What.

B

You want to point the reaction, technician evil. So then twelve Anya in the rest.

A

Okay, yeah yeah.

B

You get a disk bottom with a doughnut. Your solution is, we have get shrink, so the guest ring sj-o guess.

D

Yeah guessing at well I mean get string. Is fine, yeah I think it's stringing particular spine. My concern with the cases where we are taking a shinsokan every converting as we got met, tires left.

B

Have yes, I'm talking of the two Drummond yeah Dacus will be get number as in to do get boolean gets to live in the same they'll, be get string as go against shake-a-lator yeah I.

D

Also know agree with Jeremy that I'm not sure the Jake's adjacent specs going to change the future, so I'm not sure it's worthwhile. But if we were concerned about and if we wanted to Jason reader names to match the Jason writer named then I think that would be a compromise. There.

B

The I assemble then becomes solar boss, a guy get number as you introduce people, it's a really tight-knit yeah.

C

I'm, a Mexican, it's not gonna, try parsing a string and the number yeah that's fair enough and.

D

Then you could also, if you wanted half get string as in 32, et cetera, if needed in the future, plus with tab-completion. Who cares no on fish a.

A

D

It also um what group together nicely things like um get in 32 with get you in 32 cuz. They rather than have it all, be under get number. So it's clear, but I have a number token I'm wanting to get this out of it.

C

Sort of mix um me yeah.

A

Wouldn't be horrible, like it.

B

You keep guessing and get boolean yeah.

C

Yeah, because those are bullying.

D

C

Pretty much a primitive type in Jason this is returning is definitely a primitive typing.

D

They're both primitive types that don't require any translation and.

B

My deferment, using this particular window system, the dorneget oil I, really want inspectors on up like this yeah.

D

I, don't think they're going to add another boolean bag cuz. First, someone would need to define a new boolean value into frame. I mean the worst case we have to do. Is we have to do encoding? Translation are so.

B

Interesting that the Divya Xenia my plate again to the book well I'll it thankfully so I'm trying to fix um yeah. So.

C

On the one hand, they're they're definitely bit wordy. On the other hand, if we do hit people who are asking why they have to get the string to parse it as a number of themselves know we can solve, the Heim will give you get get string, isn't 32 like we can add that as a later wave, if we shove the token tight between get in the up car type and if people.

D

Ask for it later, even though I'm you only when the users good as Jerry likes to say, we can get string as double which would support the infinity string and such and I would want to differentiation there without having to worry about Oh. What do we name this? This make sense with everything else.

B

It's the same, naming applied to different olymic. Forget this element. You get a standard, a time offset that also keep in mind that he already has visibility of as well his abs, so that my concern was like I, semantically may consider taking over bus mix appear. But people already complain about the size of the baby is an amazing addition. So Jason.

D

An element hand is for specific token type already right. The the token type is one of these properties right so but some class, so I, don't think um and I think it's a book at the same time of both nations and not make sense to have on element something called get number as is 32, because then it would make sense that if you overload it's only balance the number token type, but at the same time well, but as login.

B

Savita head token editor right now they are the element. Names match leader site, so it simply making it efficient. Well, you get perspective you little bitty father. Nobody is a peon on read it. So that's why you don't get be bandits early on, but we will get people element and then that causes back to the title of little insider emitted and document opinion. Well,.

D

We could provide the reverse things and if anyone really hates and that's what extension methods which work.

C

And people complain that vibrating syphilitic but yeah I have some stationery crowing on vacation.

A

Well, I think the idea of extension methods in decades is not so much that somebody has to write. The boilerplate is that somebody else can decide what policy they want, rather than they can white. They can shortcut their own policy effectively right.

A

So if you want, for example, a gate number as in 30 to the parts on the string, whether writing your own.

C

Well, have you get regular.

A

C

Would be get string, is that's exactly.

A

And you can let yourself you wants to.

D

Importation element matching what I proposed for the reader would also make it easy for us to say. If you have a string, then you still have to jump your load to return like a double. If we were to expose it in the future, but.

C

D

Suddenly having to say for a string, get double camel, overthrows now, of course, this correctly and in just the conversion. So the only.

B

Thing is like I: try to be active people not around for you with already, um which is the bar for usability already connects. The name is only large and they've already complaining about it. L is they get into? Is a pilot with the Felicity? Are generic types rather to cooperate or value Inc I get inked forfeited value, long I get the long.

B

This is the Smith even harder for superspy Bible usability I mean so so. I put this in one Dyson, but I also provide mutability right.

C

So I like I, would I would say you know before we ship right now is the only time we had a chance to in terms of something names. I think that answering the token names is fine in that in the future we may get requests them. Okay, great, like you, have get number, as is 32, and you have and then like. When someone asked this and we decide we're going to do it, get string, isn't 32, then we can just also make give it 32, which is I, will try every possible options of getting 32.

C

If it's a string, I'll call get string. If it's the number I'll get a number. If you want to be schema strict, this tells you do like which thing is doing, and but maybe on the elements it doesn't matter and what we should say is we only do we do the generic for the the foofy.

C

It does things version and if you cared about schema and you can check the type yourself I, don't know which way the right ways to go, but probably like thinking about it right now, we would either say that we'll go ahead and make the get numeric types, also parse the string and say if you care about conformance, check those type or root in token name. But if we're inserting the token name of the reader, we need to have to be consistent in the element or document wise or the different thing right. I'm personally.

D

Always in favor of making the explicitness the default and then providing usability options later, but because there's like every time, I write code, especially a double single and anything that has implicit conversions for perform intentions or whatever else I always get bit in the box. Because something's not explicit in to the column, drawing overload and then becomes justice for both the less readable, because you can sort of split the caps to make everything work.

B

The concern is get string at the time. Is things like get there get chain which, on code, caching at any time, does not work, so the user might say like. Oh, this guy's getting a string and then party as data based on so.

C

Well defined they can't sell on functional distance.

B

C

Of potential allegations yeah now, maybe the fact that you don't allocate the string. They can't tell what you didn't allocate the straight.

B

Okay, safe as long isn't, no functional difference like this is officially this, but I think the biggest thing gets dinged in it. Okay, as the things that we do train here when to take a string, a date that it seems like. Oh, you got a guitar string and a temporary and then put the other day to give me a date that rehabilitation back it happen should be that I thought we do, but I.

C

Mean it's just a string token, as a daytime object the way, but that happens whether it's efficient parsing, whether it's allocating a string, whether it's throwing out the sticks of the I Ching and dividing from them like like that.

B

May be good an implementation a date. Yet as an estimation saying, oh just get in and you're gonna do. This will be next to get it right. So.

D

That is a bit better specific yeah. That would be an argument for get string as string and get string. Mdtf a string right, fine.

D

Yeah I think I think with the context of having get number and get string. It should be obvious that that's what it's returning, although I, do agree that if we were to expose get string as utf-8 string in the future, we might want to call it get string a string. Now, it's ridiculous. We're probably got a steady sister yeah like.

B

You're glad I guess to get singing plus all your string.

D

B

You get 16 string, nobody, but the idea is s forget to give it to.

A

D

I think you know perspective of things. Should we also have get utf-8 string as well? I think, but maybe that's something we discussed.

C

When it comes to wheel, I would eat it. Oh I said I, oh I said I generally agree with you all this, because if, if you're getting a string as another data type like you don't care what the interval representation is because you'd ever see it, so we don't need to give you th string as well or give string as ugh just get utf-8 string and then wash your pencil it yeah I mean even you on that.

C

When we maybe may begin stirring, you see, I hate is a better name on for future utf-8 string return because it groups it with the token hype yeah. So we can. We can have that argument when we get there hi.

A

Alright seems like we all more listen agreement.

A

Anything I need to add to this one.

C

A

C

Guess the one thing we didn't clear on is like: if we think this is putting a token type in, it is important for the reader. Should the element match with the token type or should it be should all of its things, be it will parse from the most appropriate type, but it becomes the easy to work with they. How did you care about conformance you check the something type yourself, I think.

B

Me sure is all usability done separately and you should keep an ecosystem. Okay, we.

D

B

Know happy with get it okay to grab at all, so this is put in the buffer. They start it's not resolve issues we have to solve it.

D

Separately and I think if we from the get-go face GSA's our adjacent element, beauty nice way to use it without explicit options, we might run into complete, expecting it to support other things, bringing change wise yeah. That's probably something watch it back back.

A

Seems you know then I leave this guy approved.

C

And I guess we were adding do another moving it yeah yeah.

A

A

All right so then I think we are done with our github triage. You didn't leave much room father for anybody else, thanks awesome and so no Levi is on for his stuff. I. Think in the meeting in glad I had few links remember correctly, which.

C

I also just give you the work item numbers that.

A

Will be analyzing digging.

B

A

B

You are driving for me a.

A

Simple question: yeah absolutely so.

C

Convention for.

C

Specifying if you don't want to specify edge so normal, notably in the IOT stuff, that's coming up, is people are committing a bunch of things right where you have to specify a pin right and you may or may not actually have a pin for something like a reset or something like that and they're coming in both ways we're going to look either. You know, don't either say negative one not to do it or are doable organs.

C

What's the what's the more of a framework friendly way to be writing things here,.

A

Yeah, none kind of shoe honestly with that I'm not entirely sure honestly seems like a very specific problem and.

C

Kill from what I've seen we've been doing like just but I, think it's mostly historical, then like negative one. If you don't want to specify an identifier for something right.

A

I mean tension. That is usually the way you would do that, but that has other downsides right. Yeah.

C

Yeah well again, clearly that we didn't always have know a little bit so and I think generally, if negative numbers make no sense and we usually allow negative one to meand up I, don't have an opinion here. Do the thing you would have done in the other overload, but sometimes you mat pick both. Definitely what I don't want to do. A volunteer drivers word, and you know in too no more than from different places. Well,.

D

The benefit of using the negative, if it's not valid for anything else, you can also state the Talmud, is more performance, etc. Yes, maybe not as nice for feature to thing things. You want to change that others in the future.

C

Important is burning either yeah, with highly likely that you need any.

B

Faster case, but if you.

C

Had that sort of concern will be willed into like, maybe are going to be other way, so it sounds like the like in generally going to get. We would in this particular case, we've gone in like pickle bo- convention.

B

I, just I decided it's negative, every other name by it are why you asking are you and you said to you.

D

Never take doing yeah because nothing somewhere does that, even if it's you know more performance and better for, like every case ever.

C

That a subroutine agent gelila, but it is kind of it- is the way we're settle. Okay table.

A

Shows the competition and get on Twitter on this I think it has more to do with usability honestly, because as soon as you do it, when take with them, like you count back what's or something, you basically have forth to cost, which is where they basically went with in, for the most part, yeah.

C

A

So, let's just quit this call and it will join the other call.

C

We have two minutes left: okay, that's it, but I don't get a lot of people call this.

B

Room feel great all.

A

Brand new people like this is awesome, also looks very different, Jeremy, a things which seek to release it rearrange the conference room, somehow all right. So then Levi give me just the issue number three.

C

Four: oh nine, four.

A

Where the other one, let's just open them all, so we know where we are Oh.

C

Three four integer.

A

C

Three: four I'm. Sorry, sorry.

B

Sorry, I acted and.

A

C

Those are really the only free I think we would want to do today. Yeah tweet.

A

You have 52 minutes, let's see whether we can get past the first paragraph this time, so.

C

I actually can't see, can you share your sorrow.

A

Yeah I, let me do this put it in.

C

Can I was the Sun streaming or not? They.

A

Are still two minutes the same stream, it.

C

Still streaming to you so.

A

How the hell am I supposed to do this? This is awesome.

A

Okay, so maybe closest it should have dion. Is that work? This is ridiculous, so I move the teams into a separate desktop on neck, and then you share, you can only share with it on the same desktop for it. Really they don't understand so.

C

I can also present from my screen, because I'm I'm, looking all the screen at your YouTube video, okay, okay, I.

A

Finally, I did it yeah.

C

So scroll down one third of a way you could also search for namespace space system context and that's what I want to talk about there. So this is the this is the API surface for the proposed UCF HR on the issue goes into great detail about why this particular data type such as really static, beauty fhr, would be more appropriate to represent in utf-8 data than a simple read only had a bite.

C

I can go into that right now, if you want to, but otherwise we could just look straight at the API I'll get that already and yeah. When we were in the in the corner. Yes, I did review those up the the what fell out of that review was literally beats local. Take you back. Okay, okay, so I need I need feedback before I can make another iteration almost I mean I can say in general, a disciple.

D

Making a key is we always name, you th a mystery. This is whatever the language wants to go to that better, not I. Don't.

C

Think that Caleb accepted.

C

But basically, what what this type is, that this type is basically a imagine that is a primitive, integral type, very similar guitar. Only instead of a UCF 16 code unit, it's a utf-8 code unit equals ah there are casting operators between all of the primitive integral types endless each way some of them are excellent. Some of them are implicit. um I have written here in the comment that the conversion operators will perform. Checked. Conversions I am actually thinking I. Don't want to do that now.

C

The reason for that is if the c-sharp language gets support for having a an explicit text. Conversion operator I would rather just use zones to do the check, conversions and leave all of these ones regular on track operators, just like the existing operators. Also other types. If.

D

We're going to, and maybe even can correct me if I'm wrong, Cinci the language design but I believe here we are going to have language support. We do not want to expose any operators on this type and we want the language to implicitly add them as itself instead. Otherwise, you end up in situations like what we're in with in pointer right now, where they can't explode operators on the skin pointer type, because it's become to breaking change.

C

So I have a great conversation with envy about this last week and I believe that that's not the case here, oh, but let me get back to you on mouse.

C

No one chuckles, us and everything I know.

A

So tena I think the I do reason. I think the primary reason why that we want the language to handle conversions was for things like checklist, unchecked right well in cases when you have effectively il and twins ik. So those right.

C

Language, conversions are also allowed to be used for overload resolution, but inputs and operators don't I, don't think excellent operators do because you wrote the conversion operation, but I.

D

C

Think user defined conversion operations are considered for Overland resolution. They are if there is.

D

No overload of that that takes explicitly to type the original typed. It's not a weird.

C

Hierarchy of things that are behind conversion can't do yeah.

A

I think in general, it's about using the phone user-defined is more about the primitive types of an order in order to determine betterness. When you have a vaild you by the scalar and then and then they try to find the one that is, that is more appropriate. So that makes more sense when you have literals I, guess: ok, this multiple class would be applicable, but otherwise I'm, unaware of any reason, I, think I. Think the NPD.

A

Our discussion was one of those where it has to do with the overflow had King library didn't like it was for hinting that the user-defined operator said, and we couldn't add the language to find ones either. Well,.

D

It's not just that, it's that if there are user defined operators of any type and the language wants to add, check and uncheck support, um then it even is a breaking change for the language to expose those operators, because now a user calling the union's defined operator previously and now calling it from.

A

Language support.

D

Side will get different behavior right.

C

Only if that code is in a church walk right.

D

But it's still a breaking change and that's still not something they were willing to make I think.

C

In this case, though, it's a change that the developer anticipate, because the developer explicitly went out of their way to write such a walk. If.

D

That's not the opinion. Last time, I talked to Jared and Mary people, the team, so it just I think exposing these is fine, provided we also have the appropriate discussion with the language team to make sure that they say it's fine in that any literal support or operator support. They add to the language in the future. Will complaint yeah.

A

I think I think there's a general language discussion. We need to have about this site, but whether we support the tools and what that would look like and whether we need this or not, because.

D

It's the same discussion. We need to have for eight 128 UN 128 system about half people 16. In last time, I talked to Karen and Matt states that they want to do all the rest came hi yeah.

A

I would agree with that because it makes it easier because then we can reason about this. I mean this. One is a little bit different because the ones you listed all generic types, this one wouldn't be no merit type. So I guess this work, maybe maybe we can. We can have a different conversation with them, but we should just bring it up of them and then see what is with this lens I would I would hate if it would ship the type known and box ourselves later for language support. That would be unfortunate. Well,.

D

If I think it depends, you can see that charm works as a numeric type in some scenarios.

C

It is a very few scenarios, normally ones, just a block are working to be verified with all those colors are standard, 232 right, but it's still.

D

Something I mean probably movie theater for this tight.

C

Overcoat sample, but I wrote using this type layout work as expected as far as things like comparisons, arithmetic operators and so on, and because of that implicit converting to it 32 right, but so we should. We should do it. We should bounce it off of you, know, Jerry or whoever make sure none of these operators at all are defined on char they're, all defined in the language. So.

A

C

Make sure that that the compiler team flash the language team are happy with this before we commit to it, but since this is the definition in c-sharp of sorry, this is the definition NP sharp of things that perch are currently defined in c-sharp in general, it seems fine modulo language and compiler nan.

D

Will probably want to talk to at the same time Cathleen and fill up about extra from VB if they're going to add support, imagine a sharp will but I.

C

Could see us if we're trying to get this in for three? Oh I could see us having no operators on on this guy, because maybe we don't need them until this literal support, but that's just thinking so don't follow me to that.

B

And gentlemen, you have compressional business. Is it Andy as an exercise? We have a guidance there for seven in the.

D

Guidelines, busting, right and intellisense was recently updated to show what to write for language to find operators. Let's go yeah I'm like.

C

I think I actually got that from somewhere I. Just don't remember where well like every role. We have happiness.

D

There we have conformant.

C

Things in on components.

D

Yeah we can, we can call them.

C

Watch apart a time as t1 and t2 day time offset it left and right, decimals, d1 and d2. Are you thinking of them I'm in system that runtime that's.

B

Yeah searching for less than or equal to.

B

The world good yeah.

A

B

Work on them, I.

A

Should rip in some ways me yeah, so yeah.

C

We can we can call it what to write us, whatever I'm not lined up Mary to the parameter days right nah, you.

D

Can one missing system not texture? Do we think it's going to be common enough that having the system next to char is better so.

C

All of the other utf-8 support types are in system text and the sub namespaces and system text is also a default namespace, so I don't think it makes it any less. You all stated there I think.

D

It's a default namespace, but it's not one that typically stays as a namespace. That's included just.

C

You can't be string. Gonna go in textures are going to go in system that when we were talking about it we said that would go in system and.

D

Feel, like the chart type.

C

Should go with it: yeah, okay,.

A

B

Will demonstrate where.

A

The despair go kiss the tubes really weird to not have the chart time, but have the same time. I would so I could see not going to be made for you to a string, also not being in system but into single text, but I think whatever decision we are making, there should be consistent. It seems very rate that if you want to numerate the string, you now have to suddenly add another using that seemed weird to visit the entire dat of the a of the API surface. Levi I.

C

Think just just UCS they charge truck itself. Yeah I mean it's. It's a really simple strong. There are a bunch of api's that would come along with it, but I don't really want to review those today. Yeah.

B

All because of magnet support with a conventional so.

D

Called a key Kimber and operators end up being implemented using the language cohort yeah.

C

Currently, the currently everything here that has the word operator and it is not defined photography- think it is defined in c-sharp spec. It's not just a point of a c-sharp suckage to find in the IL like if we wanted to. If we actually wanted to enlighten the dot that framework about this like it would probably require a change to the eyelet.

B

C

D

Feeling fairly, there's other ways that it could be done might have to share it a little bit about it. 419, 428 and stuff.

C

Oh yeah yeah, actually what you mean they.

D

Basically, it involves what what his suggestion was. Oh is that we would have either all the private cells or in a special class under compiler services. There would be a aisle extension class of sorts that exposed like um explicitly named methods that compiler special cases for the primitive types.

C

You mean like off underscore less than a law underscore impulsive yeah, in which we had just put all this I felt.

D

Potentially, but that that was basically lock thing that he had mentioned when I discussed it with him. Last.

B

A

And so the abuse said, the only way you can affect these pages is by convergence.

C

The only way you can construct these is by a conversion for old, so there are three ways to construct them. You can do an explicit conversion from another, integral type like in spite car. Whatever you can enumerate a utf-8 stand or string easily the elemental type of enumeration or assuming language support. You can get it from a literal by the way. Those exact three things I just mentioned are also. The only three ways to create systems are today, yeah.

A

I was about to say, I, don't think anybody use them up. It just seems odd, cast personal union with no constructor, but I guess that's kind of the way.

B

It to fly system, car yeah.

A

B

Char has not angry support, but unless, until this you get it done any support, so we need something for shoppers that rest of the Dracula like the chambers. You can read it to construct these types, I think it's something where it.

C

Is this type supposed to shape with 300? Presumably us an advantage of putting a stipend trios? We can go to places right now that think we don't. We spend a bite where we're setting a PTI face data and you can replace it with, ugh are we say, just take utf-8 character, but.

B

I removes you, wanna be a butyl. Does it are limits pork, so.

A

B

A

So also on the puppet: f-sharp doesn't support conversion so just see it's just that they don't have interested ones. You always have to cop yeah.

D

C

D

That's ones question was: if we're going into packing the operators fee.

C

D

Support because they need to be for whatever reason then I would have shark doing without the same language support they.

A

Would do it like this? It's the same thing, there's no public for you, the other buildin times either. If we decide this is the building type that has language support there no operator than the languages order to use the type have to code it up right.

D

But I, don't we would have to check if C, sharp and F sharp would both be able to fit in the time frame for the 300 release for the language? Well,.

C

Otherwise, but.

D

C

You have a music.

D

C

D

C

Think we really need language support for this, like to be perfectly honest, considering that the code samples that I have written here, we below this work today without any type of c-sharp changers yeah the question just making sure that the language design, team etc don't have more grand design than using user-defined operators. Here, yeah.

D

C

D

If we are going.

C

To do to the find operators do we are we accepting that if you have three OS using user defined conversion and when you get to three one with c-sharp nine, whatever? That now is using built-in conversions and all of these things are dead code, which is just for what we targeted at that level. So we just.

C

We need to make sure that we, the the runtime the framework in the language team, are all on the same page regarding this I think the shapes of the stop modulo ad turning of the left/right looks reasonable, but we we need to make sure that we're not. There are three aspects to system and we need to make sure that all three of them are happy with each other blind of a system system.

C

A

Well, the other thing I would say it's not that all languages have to ship supporting feel like I think if we can nail the design. This is sharp Tim, it's okay, if potentially even none of them ship. As long as you all in agreement with what the design is I mean yeah.

D

You have no language.

A

Support and the only way you can use these videos this way it's of language support them, I, don't think it makes sense while shipping the type in 300 either right, but there is a way you can use. The type is just more convenient with language support. The nesting is lots of here that comes later so long. We know enough about the design to know that we didn't corner ourselves above your shipping. Those.

C

Are the reasons that this is important for 3? Oh? Is that, like a stand-up, this is how you represent utf-8 data as opposed to a span of byte, but.

B

C

Don't want to shift Frio with a bunch of ap is where we expect our developers to pass readable standard light as the exchange trade protection. Baby right is done to one year thing. You know one stop doing it, please we don't want to propagate it. Young. You.

D

Are also decision, eight just isn't missing. Some operators here at c-sharp support some char, Oh double decimal, um centaurs lover, yeah commercial operator. You.

C

Get operators that look at the quality care you bring come there are also. There are a bunch of static methods on char, um like you know, is lower to lower all that kind of stuff where those look at in dismissed or not considered. So those don't necessarily make sense on UTS HR, because you see fhr in isolation is really just a nasty bite. All of the API did you just mentioned already existed static methods on the assistive touch, link type.

C

The method members like compare make sensing okay can make sense, because you might want to do something like if there's YouTube HR teams between what would be AMG stuff like pub well.

D

Isn't that the purpose of the in lower method, but that's to say, is slower in a 13-10.

C

We're not not necessarily because if, if you're iterating through a string- and you get a UCF HR, which happens to be a partial code unit or anything happens, to be a code unit of a on a value which is only represented by a longer sequence, that code unit in isolation is completely meaningless. You can't ask anything about it, but as a member of a larger sequence, only then does something like is lower, is upper make sense it doesn't that they are going to buy to compare to for you. Th are yeah.

B

C

As a code unit, it is an integral value and integral values will always be compared against each other.

C

Okay, but I would never actually use it. Wow you mad. Well, let's not, let's fight form, if you wanted to do something like a like ask, is this UCF HR like a c0 control character like yes, you would use something like a comparison, Surat I think, most of the time you would probably uh most of the time you would probably compare it as inert, because the place where to lower doesn't work, for example, would be you have a lower case.

C

Math base a that's a multibyte value in utf-8 and if you're looking at the first night, it could be lower, it could be upper, it could not even be a letter depending.

D

C

What the next seven sets are right, but the first one in that he could clearly be the.

D

C special light that says since I've got warm, is yeah, but then what do we write in.

C

D

By it would be to one where it could be in a, but when considered with the rest of.

C

It would be invalid, they would need to know what the previous bytes, where in order does so it with you th, are charge key in this, like what most people encounter most of the time fit within a chart. It's only get surrogates. Another application gets this choice, all of which are static. Api operate on ucs-2, datable, utf-16 data and ucs-2 data is defined to be a 16-bit. Charese is the end of the world like that.

C

That's all there is in the world yep, so so putting them on UCF a it works for all the ASCII things and then immediately falls apart, and so it's probably better to not have them and to make you cast the room but anyway, so for the. How do we get one of these objects? It's the only thing we get in three Oh is use. You know unsafe, as turn your we don't expand a bite. You Reno expand on you thr that at least pleases me more than taking the api's forever but yeah.

C

This is what people say so yeah. We would provide an API to go back and forth. So just a simple casting API.

D

So I think you know Nana Castillo, never comment. I would happen it. um We may want to consider talking with the language team in changing the name from you, thr to whatever they use or something similar to. If, if.

C

That makes sense yeah.

D

C

I read is what people use to play frequently like I'm fine, with up like.

D

I would be in favor of car age from the perspective of most other languages, use it and it would group it together an existing char yeah and that's the semantics we have for like in 32, etcetera, I, think.

B

I use a turtle.

C

Ursula I'm, sorry things good for the keyword, which is fine. If the question is the camera, it also makes them for the pat-down case. I, like the word short, is in 16. Thankfully, the keyword in which I stole.

D

Yeah I, don't know, but I think I. Think for charms. Dick you lurch are a indicates. It's an 8-bit character. We want it to be used as.

C

D

C

Will be asking this is an 8-bit coach thing, so there's the reason is the reason why religion went to Poland wanna go.

D

Home sorry I was just saying it's a basic character.

C

D

Intend to use is utf-8, but a user could use it for Interop with a fee use it for ASCII data etc. um So these shouldn't, but they could they shouldn't. Let me could end a likely well, regardless of what we tell them, because they are 15 types that represent an 8-bit character network is.

C

Useful for that better reset wisely, you know the reason that I think they shouldn't is because if you have an array or a span of these things like we, we want to be beaten into people's minds. What, if you have an array or a span of these of, represents ETF a data so users only as a code unit of utf-8 data, not as ASCII data? Well.

D

Treating it as ASCII is still valid for ugh it's only when you have your champ data, if you interpret it only as a key that it becomes invalid yeah.

C

D

C

Thing exists for UCF 60, the new cs2, so.

D

They work, for example, I. Imagine that people want to use this tie for conversion to fancy data for ASCII data on older UNIX, API frame, drop purposes, I.

C

Don't think that's a good idea, because all the conversion API is wolves from utf-8, because it's a span of tourist and a beauty of HR that amount.

D

Of lead, you might.

C

End up with data corruption, the.

D

Marshal err will see it as an 8-bit strapped unless we had explicit support for otherwise.

C

Last for Windows, because we'll need to convert it to uShip 32, prefer you ship 16. Probably then we need employment, marshal religions but like if you.

D

If you had a struct that contained a EKF HR and let's let me run a little guilty but yeah if you just had a concealed in the truck or.

B

D

A parameter any method, and you marshaled that or.

C

Younger buggies still.

D

Be treated anything wrong by in there for HRT, and there would be no meaning of utf-8 in the same for if you have a fixed size, offer of etcetera.

C

We must payments same car and shorter the same time, but it's a for 7-bit, ascii, utf-8 in and see char are the same. Once you hit the 8-bit ASCII as then, the universe hold martin yeah. So.

B

C

This anything is all those unique, and I think this is also an ascii string- means that once once you pass this sequence into utf-8 string, it would say this makes no sense, because I'm getting light segments that are not legal right. Yeah.

E

B

C

Be able to treated their payback yeah.

C

Cool okay, so it don't like it sounds like we're, generally, okay with the type existing, but we need to go back to the. We just need to have a quick conversation with the language team and say hey what are the plans so, regarding first-class support for this, we.

D

Should probably also talk with the runtime team on marshalling behave that way it doesn't become a breaking change to introduce correct marshaling the age later. If we need to okay I.

C

Also have some minor concerns. It should prevent it from happening, but some minor concerns around memory of this and we still have a measure we've talked about before around. If data is coming in as the memory of bite.

C

How does that interplay with API? Is that work in terms of memory of you thr, yes, yeah, and we can nice comp line because I I've, given some thought about them and I I mean we should just talk offline, because I think we have a workaround. What I want to I want to run it by you.

B

So you'll see that now and even what's the Blandin yes.

A

I was just writing up all the things you just brought up so I think there's a bunch of open issues that so, first of all, we need to decide if you want a neat language support, including building conversions. If so, we can ship to the define operator should be a PID into context to Holy Ones, a language choice. Whatever we think you'll want to ship the utf-8 string type. How should we name the time if all you want survival choice of the YouTube, it's important life support? Does this type need consideration for marshaling?

A

It feels like I think in general. Nobody seem to have a concern with the YouTube, a chart type in general modules. I think just even just brought up but I. Think to me the biggest baby pup of this type is what we said earlier, namely that we can find a differentiate or a payload solution, or we don't expand off by them. Then you have to beat the comment and it seems active and these from what I've heard when I talk to people that everybody seems to mind that may do properly.

A

So it seems the type that we should definitely consider for for clothing now they. My only concern is like. Is this something we want to do for trio, because the question is can be closed on the other things in time. I do we know whether we can get language support? If so, do we know enough about the design to make the certain same as utf-8 string type like I feel a? We cannot completely be a couple, this type of YouTube a string type discussion otherwise later on and we ship it.

A

You know I, don't want to have this. You know square peg in a round hole problem. It's nothing fits together.

A

That's not only concern, so it's more like timing areas is the question yeah, so I think I mean this will probably not happen. Much I mean depending well, although all the weather goes, but we should probably set up something with the language folks next week to to discuss what this would look like.

A

Anybody else any specific concerns I mean the Martian wants to me is more like you know, I think this seems something that is very additive right. If we don't nail this, no, we can easily nail this later, probably I.

D

Think it's a question of I just should have the discussion with the runtime team to make sure that whatever marshal important they add, there will break users later. Yes,.

C

D

People assume that protests available people are going to start using it. People have been wanting it for a very long time, so this.

C

D

Question there, and as soon as people start depending on to be here, whatever we ship it as it's probably on the pipe store, we can't just go and change it later.

A

Ok right add that to the list.

A

Anything else because than otherwise I would marked with API for now, as needs work and then say next step is language discussion.

A

Aha, are you okay, with that Lima yeah.

C

Absolutely because that's clarity right always all I really needed was clarity on where to go from here.

C

And everything else in this, like all of the other sample API, is at the bottom of a OH at the bottom of the issue. We're not going to discuss right now, because.

F

C

Are mainly things, like extension methods, to take us so on the take standardized rather.

A

Good, let me just add this through the mouth on this appeal, so we keep coming back to this puppy yeah.

A

Alright, so we have 22 minutes left, that's.

C

That should be enough time um that.

A

That goes into the hook-up time is the first idea, yeah.

C

So we have them, we added methods to string for free, oh uh string, zotkin, rune apps as an instance method, and it takes an index as a parameter and returns the room. That's at that position, uh one of the things that that API does is it will failure. It will either grow an exception or will just return false. If you use the try variant. um There are a few few things about that. To note.

C

First, it's only one string really stand or anything else and ii, like I said earlier, like it, doesn't tell you why something went wrong. It just says: I can't give this you. This particular method is something that would be used by the iterators and by people who need to know exactly why decoding couldn't work, and this would tell you um hey give me give me a stand and I will give you back the first room that I saw from that stand.

C

If I can't return a room to you, I'm going to tell you explicitly why it wasn't able to give one to you either, because the input was too short or the input was corrupted or I was able to give one to you. So we would be using three of these for operation status. Return codes here, sequence length is basically chars consumed or you th are consumed.

C

This is an operation status returning API the thing that makes it a little different than the existing API is and set it out a result rather than writing the result to a buffer like a standard operation status. One.

C

The reason you would need to know the difference by the way between between the data was invalid and the data is incomplete is because, if you're writing the transcoder, for instance, you.

D

C

This as an implementation method, and when you're eventually approaching the end of the string, the decode method would say: I can't I cannot give you back your results because I need more data. Now the transcoder would then, which heard needs more data back to get color again using this effectively in a loop as a workhorse method. Right, maybe I didn't say that there are, we add, an existing method. The needs are like autumn is the providing Canyon, but more or anything.

C

These are different than the ones on string on in two ways these operate on spam and B. These are guaranteed not to fail, will actually tell you why they couldn't succeed. Didn't y'all have one bond extensions on spam.

C

These the extensions, won't stand on art yet in there in the next review, because they have a different return type.

A

Do we need them blimp the.

C

Exceptions won't stand on the extensions on span we're turning numerators, but they don't. They don't return very specific information about what went wrong and why, like the ones on stand, just returned vo. The question work within the diamond to replace the character if something goes wrong, but they can't they can't be used for determining, like oh I'm, using my own customer placement, for instance.

C

So if I'm going in aggregor you're, basically saying that the methods on string and the extensions on span are sort of the higher level usable api's for a new rating, the content they both be built. Presumably on top of this, which is more complicated but divides all the functionality. Listen that's a much more else, always data. Just nice and.

C

Home so yeah give me the first room. Give me the last room, that's what the big guys are and there's a utf-16 in the utf-8 equivalent.

C

This is why the enumerators then hardly to actually be built like they would say, give me the first room and then they would splice to get to the remainder exactly what does last do if the last byte starts a non valid word like a utf-8, where you see that it's the start of a multibyte, does it go backwards inside the last legal one, or does it to tell you the last one can't be decoded it?

C

Will it will tell you I get the code the last one, because I'm out of data- but here are how many I play sounds that have the potential to be followed by more valid data. Okay, sorry for German, for my utf-8 sequence and you're at the first one, it would say: fail: I read one like um corrected, it would say: fail because I need more data by the way I see one byte yep, okay,.

B

Anybody any there's this rule and so from that class, because.

C

What isn't on that profile.

B

Allows the phony on the super strength name is Rotem even does give it to me. You want me to be sick whistling, and then we have another console ready for a rule or point count or something else I mean favor want to use that. So.

C

This sequence length in this regard means code. The eunuch helps for the UCF 16 version. It's how many chars that I consume for the utf-8 version at so many UTSA charged I consume. um We can call it whatever we want to, though, but that's the meaning of the parameter as I filled it it's our convention. Right now is things consumed though charge consumed, yeah charters consumed really, but like one of things, reading bytes we usually have the healthy bikes consumed yeah. Well, it's not reading bike.

C

haha Yeah Indy everything secret yangjia is not the normal convention right Emily when you've consumed instead of red, because that's what we do.

B

Or exact on the zoo in the ads get the same people sixty percent? Yes, yes, those are kind public property, singing.

C

Also grim, it is I mean hard by the it wasn't super sandwich, if is because it was proposed by coat unit, help actually a vintage more contrition over like.

C

Yeah I mean we we might want to come back to that. One fix it yeah just that one didn't easy change to make it rich, maybe yep so.

A

Maybe I'm just slow, I, suppose annex and how you use this API high level, API city, you call code first, one in the loop.

C

Basically yeah, so if you're enumerated yeah, if you're enumerated over a standard version which was called us a no loop and keep slicing over and over and over so what.

A

Would ever need the not fun.

C

To code less room, yes,.

A

C

Reverse enumeration or more commonly, when you're doing a train operation, because if say that you want to trim all of all like I, don't know you want to Train all accented characters from a string of the first and the last well reading utf-8 data backward is a non-trivial process. I.

A

See fair to say that the code for soon we'd left to right and because last one kind of we buy to left them.

C

For the most for you, the code last rent has a lot of logic inside of it to figure out, if there's a partial character at the underneath, so to kind of escape you Gerwin, but yeah. Otherwise, it's a right last thing: yeah should.

A

Be then maybe we name the methods I mean, at least for me, is welcome clear that this is what I mean what you would do. Oh.

C

We could like.

A

You told from beginning and decode from end or something I, don't know, see more I think either way like it's not clear that you're supposed to call this in I do but I guess that's just the way it is I mean yeah, I, can't think of a better name. What is that that right, so.

C

The behavior decode life swing is such that, whatever it returns, um if you take the out of sequence like um when the original span to that sequence like and then turn around and call decode first rope, they return the exact same results.

A

C

Basically find the penultimate room slice the input to that and then do a forward reef in there.

C

Which is weird, but it's the only way to make this work so.

D

Does not last year and effectively look at most four characters back from the end to determine if there's any control, digits to say, I have more distance another one district turn 1 karate.

C

Then put starboard come on Estonia in the previous guard. My.

B

Gender surrogate.

C

B

We go so start the government in your area, yeah.

A

That seems more logical, at least for me, because otherwise it seems like I know ate.

C

Chocolate cake instead of cake. Oh.

A

Yeah but I'll de PS, you have when our.

C

String house strings off in robot and we don't really have static factory Zagreb right now.

D

Because the chart overload need to differentiate between big endian and little endian in the case, where is a partial surrogate at.

B

D

B

D

The previous one that ended the previous character is also a full surrogate, though.

C

It's a UCF, it's always big idea. I.

D

Don't know for you for the Chara below Oh.

C

No the chart overloads. Take the oh, you mean the span of chart over loops yeah no charge. Well, our chart is charm. We don't talk about the immunity.

A

C

Individual, so the individual code units are always a machine it'd be in order, but the sequence, the high surrogate, always precedes a low surrogate, even in big Indian system. Yes, all systems tell me to bite to the left or vector yeah.

B

C

Final shorts, not long or not, yeah great right right, oh yeah, I, think.

D

C

You, if you have, if you have a sequence of 16-bit integers the element at index, 0 has to be the high surrogate. The element at index 1 has to be below surrogate, and the individual elements are stored in Machine nd in order. But the indexes that I just mentioned have to be I, am willing not only correct.

D

C

Mean the other options of the shaft examples of what it returns.

A

Yeah the option is like: do you think people like? Is it a common? Is the code last university code? First one? Is it fair to say most people would use the code. First of all, oh.

C

Yes, definitely should.

A

We then just go with what we did for index offer just call the first one D code and then the last one, maybe just decode from the end or something.

A

Because I think the code kind of make sense to me that you would call it a loop with you if you only returned my word.

C

um Sure Gaby, the only concern I have with that is the method name, should kind of signal that is not going to read the entire sequence. It's only going to give you the first element from the sequence.

A

Thank you. Okay,.

C

Span of stuff- and you decode it to a room, it clearly can only do one of them, so the code and decode last and so.

A

Because you're saying I'm gonna be promoting initiation I think as soon as you try to call the API will be kind of obvious because you only get a single value out, so it would be hard-pressed to get a whole stream out of it. Yeah.

B

A

Maybe that's okay. Yeah me.

B

And Santana to our source, okay, I.

C

Think the reason I called expand is because a lot of the memory- extensions- let's just take her impetus, fan but yeah source books too, are.

D

Those also extension methods, so the name of the dismember doesn't really matter. Oh.

A

Yeah yeah, but they can't be right because they are tied because my pet ik yeah.

C

And I didn't really want to make these extension methods hanging off the read-only stem, because I think this is going to be a somewhat more esoteric scenario and I. Don't really want to loop the standard, some other maintenance.

A

It's a little just type it in and see what people think Oh God.

C

And instead of sequence length, what was the recommendation, geography or something of you sure I? Was it like? That's what our current convention seems to be mostly. We have only done things with bikes and jars, so we've used bike conservators consumed, we called invoked or consumed living. Actually, the source type is utf-8 oratory, I'm in charge in today, yeah that's just now. We need to be careful that tours consumed doesn't necessarily mean system, don't charter, it means whatever you happen to pass it. The number of elements we consume from that sequence, I.

A

Think that kind of fine I mean that only means that whatever we call YouTube a chart that has Charmin in somewhere.

C

Which, like integrated all we want to do anyway,.

A

Yes week only like ASCII value or something in your group.

D

Just going back to EHR discussion if we are going to need each one charge consume because it takes DT of HR and we're going, did you see a picture of three oh and six, all the repairs that are going to expand a fight to take Spencer? Instead? Are we also going to make sure that we update all the ones are by consuming to be charged consumes their the.

A

Gondola getting it.

C

Changing the word like to utf-8 trying to show up in the death, and we look at it and be like when dignity to.

B

All this you get a chance with your institution and not not, although the charge they really plan to either.

C

Way I mean this is denied as a health parameter saying. Can you even? Can you even do named parameters in an out parameter? Yes, absolutely of course, okay, edges all done.

A

All right, it's better shape than me all in agreement, did I, represent everything family or do they mess it up.

B

The only thing I would push backwards: Johnson's YouTube you do there, this field, I.

D

Think we should waiting to turn in both the language Davisville yeah, whatever they don't like.

B

Read different form, jobs, yeah, so.

C

Maybe maybe we can at least have a to do if.

D

I guess not with the language name, but what I mean it.

C

If the, if the keyword like, if we get a keyword, called charring on it, I, don't think that we would call it carry consumed, because that would just look stupid. So.

B

More glossary bison in charge, so I, don't know, I want I, don't want gory justice guild. You know they do any kind of Jarvan. They make much.

C

I ate I didn't.

B

C

The real answer might be that maybe we need to sit down and have a discussion of what we think that says out name Bobby should be: maybe we should maybe mean tea is consumed, is not actually the shape that we want, but we haven't done that we've done everything any field. So there was a recommendation in YouTube chat to to maybe call it consumed help that way. It's just an elemental count. What do people think about I mean.

D

I think it's ok, but.

C

Probably defer we probably want to talk to Christophe, because really that's deciding what we think the convention should be for all stand based: consumption. Ok, so I want your opinion before we commit anything. Ok, but I think that's wearing. Even ability gets us out of describing a team skill.

B

I mean we may want to keep the conceal that, then you think they.

C

Come to manage, consume challenge, Cal consumes items consumed what like habits apply, but if we can give the tea, if we can decide what our convention is to not have the tea of the names that can go up friendlier, especially once we start getting off of our four-letter primitive type things, and it's like oh you're, decoding this to a you know like 11 letter, long type. It's like do you really take the type name, I think that camelcase, the tighter name and the book consumed on the end, yeah yeah, like.

D

If this wasn't a novelty, if this was an array of answer, TQ- probably wouldn't call it 8:30.

C

To consuming yeah yeah, but when we say int consumed or will be just saved, maybe the parameter should is because I'm, a survivor and lifesaver being 32 considered high as the person who's going to write. This chapter I can tell you. We have written zero words as to what the society.

C

D

Just going for the framework design guidelines.

D

F

Yeah the Romanian api's I wanted to review. I will just push off till next time. Maybe we can do a review like there's a are Friday if the weather holds up and people can handle it.

G

G

F

Over a span, as was mentioned earlier, I think Vice to you.

F

When you enumerate, when you're enumerating over a span, we decided that we wanted additional enumeration api's. That would allow you to deconstruct the elemental type of the enumeration into the room and its index in the span that you were enumerated over.

F

We reviewed this a while back I had a link up to it up to the original review. This is just responding to feedback from the original review. Again. We we don't have time to get into this today, so whatever sort of been reviewing all the room, stuff, piecemeal, yeah, I'm, fine, but and everything probably serves its own unique purpose and so on, but it'd be great.

F

If, prior to shipping and still with time to make changes, we could sort of look at the high-level picture again and validate that there is an unnecessary duplication that you know. We couldn't consolidate certain things in various ways and so on know that that's good feedback. Are you talking about from an API perspective or behavior.

E

Or or what was, in particular.

E

So yeah we should probably do something yeah, that's that sounds.

F

Like a fantastic idea, it should be a relatively easy DIF to do. I would think emo I, imagined I could probably pick your brain as to how to get that different yeah.

H

Absolutely so, okay I think I said, like we I, think I sat down like last week or whatever I send out a schedule of all the upcoming API reviews. We can just see where we can't fit this in and what how much we need to close on those all right, then, if there's nothing more I would say enjoy the rest of your day, don't drive too crazy to traffic and then I hope I will see you tomorrow in person again. Yes,.

F

H