.Net Foundation Design Reviews, 10 Dec 2019

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From YouTube: .NET Design Review: GitHub Quick Reviews

Description

00:00:00 - Approved: More cancellation overloads for HttpContent https://github.com/dotnet/runtime/issues/576#issuecomment-564164757
00:14:05 - Needs Work: Option to allow HttpClient to follow HTTPS -) HTTP redirects https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/33791#issuecomment-564169859
00:25:52 - Approved: Add ImmutableHashSet(T).Builder.TryGetValue https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/34019#issuecomment-564172216
00:31:42 - Needs Work: Create ASCII ToUpper / ToLower APIs https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/34144#issuecomment-564176989
00:43:36 - Needs Work: Add an atomic ToArray + Clear method to ConcurrentDictionary(TKey, TValue) https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/34619#issuecomment-564182556
00:56:57 - Approved: WaitForExitAsync for System.Diagnostics.Process https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/34689#issuecomment-564185885
01:05:26 - Needs Work: Implement IBufferWrite(byte) on MemoryStream https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/35400#issuecomment-564205625
01:21:54 - Approved: Change NetworkStream.Socket property from protected to public https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/35410#issuecomment-564210981
01:34:00 - Approved: Add Single and Double overloads to BinaryPrimitives https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/35791#issuecomment-564214440
01:42:10 - Approved: add Span overloads for Socket datagram functions https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/35861#issuecomment-564217357

A

A

B

No real life with audio. That's amazing.

C

D

Do have we do with many dolls.

E

D

F

Right it does whatsoever I want to.

G

H

Is it he or she I go with it? Hey, okay,.

A

E

Know where she it's male.

I

E

It depends on the way.

B

As far as I can tell, we are live and we have audio and everything is hunky-dory. We.

I

Are wasting and we.

B

A

I hope these conversations.

I

I hope everyone can live.

E

See- and we have a lot of aggressive, we are simply.

I

Wasting Internet.

G

Okay, yes, we are lying.

B

So it's this one so.

J

Do you want to give some explanation for this? Oh.

B

Yeah you and the core actually good point.

K

And hi guys hello. So, as Cory mentioned before, most of the api's were already approved. This one was one that was missed. It's a protected virtual, so that would require consolation token, as well, in order through implemented a already accepted ones, and the other part of the proposal are the copy to async overloads with cancellation tokens. I assume those were just missed as well.

H

H

Yes, how can we get these iPic led standard? You.

D

I

Into the next version of that center.

B

Let me rephrase your question: when can we have a time machine.

J

H

We have an adapter.

J

Shipping, each in even more yeah.

B

Let me ask you dear for me: do you care what one another my framework, what.

H

B

Care what running under that framework? No you.

H

Just what we do, but it doesn't, but it's not. It has nothing to do with that. Very much know.

B

What it does like, let me act differently. If the only thing you care about is running encore, even all the versions encore, we can probably make that work. Oh okay, but there's no way we can make that framework run against in your version of the time we tried that and it never it's just to do that. So.

H

I understand also what I'm not looking for is this Peter? Is she working because we today have called Adams.

A

H

All these cult parks are not conceivable well what we would need to do to start using them in terms of kind of light up. When you happen to run on. You know that net cord that supports it, then we would need to kind of bridge API, so our libraries can just call an ID I like let's say an extension method on actually be content, and then the extension method would be cross-compiled.

H

I wonder if you guys could provide those cross-compiled rich packages. There.

L

Is a lot of work with a lot of noise? That's.

H

Why we don't want to do it? No.

L

I mean like it's it's way easier. It's actually.

M

L

In the consuming library, well,.

M

But you made all this about. Contents can Sabo Krishna. So if you stick with a stream and string you'll be fine it just if you Trey. If you do create your own custom, open stream, then you might have a troubles, isolate but then I guess you could cancel it. You or means as well.

M

Yeah Bishop is distrito, be a full duplex dream, which is pretty cancelable. If you stick with, are not our Content ID or content, DHCP content implementations, you.

H

Know we have a custom, HDD content, implementation.

M

Well then I guess you still could constantly inside of that right. So if you signal your custom implementation, this should be canceled. You don't necessarily need to rely on the public API.

H

Maybe okay, let me let's have this discussion separately. Let's now, first yeah.

M

I was a combination, let's see if this makes sense and that's hidden wing. So me hop in now finish this often.

J

The main unfortunate thing about this ask you.

H

Yeah yeah well.

C

Do you at least it's not abstract, makes it sexy better. You know that you have to be good and see if the one you don't want is abstract and the one you do want them to use.

E

If not abstract, it mean it means that if you, if you override just one of them nor at lease.

H

You just you have to know to override the long one, how many.

C

Because someone could still be calling a friend I assumed that our implementation, we just called the parameter that is one frame there has been- has to call the parameter Lisbon, because the perimeter, oh.

H

Yes, because they actually.

E

Got about this.

H

H

At somebody we were talking about cutting analyzers of some.

H

Something like that that would help you know what to do. For those three.

A

It would be very nice.

A

The only begin.

A

E

I believe those are known as.

E

Making nice bus so that we do the right thing, runtime layer and then.

I

The rest a little longer a little.

E

So now baby here deriving this type in neck or five, if it's like you're missing an edge.

E

And you know that it'll work at one time cuz. It wasn't.

E

That says this just create content, read stream a sink and Kathy a sink they're being modified. Here's the board, no.

N

A

A

N

You I suppose nobody has more comments on it, so I'm going to post.

B

N

N

B

I think else you want, gentlemen, is that anybody else have. Anything else are just go to this from left to right.

O

Here's your opportunity, the closest person. Thank you, know sworn we looked at this before. The thing is not.

J

Okay, so technically HTTP allows you to have a redirect security.

J

And people are asking so inside.

L

But what's the scenario why you would need that.

J

A couple comments down in the issue.

J

J

A

We'll see you on.

A

E

A

If you look within.

E

Corporate license right, a lot of our stuff is over.

N

H

Yeah, like many surfaces, store equals in and then you read director, HTTP and 100.

E

Plain text I mean.

A

E

Technically speaking, English we can redirect a gopher, nobody knows, but first do a URI.

B

In fairness, though, like secrets are generally speaking, much all environment, looking, for example, how CI boats are being handled because they're using in environment variables? Well many people use MMS, built-in diagnostic logging mode, guess what it does. It dumps all environment variables into a log file, but be careful where you bail. You know first publicly available.

H

You still have to make the log file available here. It just goes. You know to the internet that we were just no.

B

I'm, just saying, like that's not example of like leaking secrets, is relatively easy, like that, it's just one of those examples, but this one you opting into this you're setting it.

J

I mean concerns that sometimes, if you get.

A

J

Of really green in it.

A

Would you want something like oh wow,.

J

Mina Colbert call that would be nice.

J

You do that with just a low officer.

E

G

Getting you we.

E

Have a comeback in the way of a special call back with, but no it's going to just say return the truth, because that lets us work in places and you can't actually provide the callback so I wonder if maybe that would be Oh slick one before it performs a redirect in voucher, called a line.

D

Is this I think that's my.

B

Question would be like how much more of a hole 18. It's nothing like doing like how many more mistakes can you make in the next one this hon, you cannot.

E

Really, worse, don't usually.

B

E

Where's he going again right. You have to later to return true, which is the most common certificate, verification handler you can find on stackoverflow and oh you've.

B

Seen the worst you can do is.

E

No worse than setting, because.

B

I thought you would you basically asked for like.

D

James with the world would I, isn't the.

J

Animal can't really subclass this.

A

H

J

Well, you all definitely do you can correct.

H

J

Error that you get and do the redirect annually.

E

When he passed away cancer.

H

But I wasn't talking about you inherit a new provide the future inherit and you override the man a proper together. It returns false, and now you return true. Oh okay, so I have a free.

H

It could be protected area to hide it. It would not be like a hardy.

E

H

Counter, maybe lieutenant you know extension, you know it returns boolean, but we pass in. You know, they're a direct information and then you can decide whether you return true or false. All.

B

The sub classing those it doesn't compulsion in ask you. Oh.

J

There's there's already a way to handle turn off the reader response. Parents.

A

You have chosen.

J

Yeah yes, at that point, it's totally manual.

J

Yeah, how often do.

J

J

H

I, don't have a strong opinion, it just seems like something potentially potentially dangerous and we are providing super easy property 232 to go and then forget that you everyday, maybe it's okay, Alice.

E

But like uncle cool is their focus, ring ring ball or again, an event or whatever does give you more like better control and I'm just going by the existing certificate. Validation trust is you can write the things either you're gonna go free, resolve the post name to make sure attend on board whatever or you get the signature through, and that call dr. your synchronous. That's oh.

D

You want a result.

J

E

Going to go than the synchronous DNS look at this, it should already be in your so.

B

Someone is asking: wouldn't the people needing this meaning this redirect need to design their stuff is such that they serve 301 or 302 and HTTP HTTP and follow it themselves. I.

F

B

That's just a client what decline just basically things the other URL I, suppose.

E

You can imagine like a URL organ service, for instance, that always gives you HTTP.

E

Right, I, don't know if that, whatever, if anyone would ever use this code to do that.

I

From bitly or a kms.

I

E

B

So what should the club again just a URL or the whole request? I.

J

Think we'd want to look at that there. There are some like property bags.

E

But I guess the networking should evaluate the callback instead of.

E

N

Just wanna make sure that he gives the right input to this.

E

If you I, don't I, haven't looked at the certificate validation.

N

Yeah all right, so then, let me just bounce this Bank.

P

All right, let's go the next one.

D

You have this method on any of our heads.

N

Yeah, we should probably have that that was foken oversight, so.

B

The problem is, the builders are effectively an api mirror of the immutable types except that they're beautiful. So whatever medium methods you have on the you should also have.

B

Done similar things in my own stuff is like having API consistency. You know test is actually really nice in.

A

It yeah because.

B

It's very hard to do this interview.

N

Yeah I think it's a national, excellent idea. Let me I mean.

E

They they are logically married, but they are not yeah and.

N

They are so it's gonna be an ugly and.

E

You would have a southerner.

E

It does look like credit, no, you Stanley, okay, so maybe that will be over.

E

J

E

You get like a mutable hash set is intersect, which will return a new of utilize, and then the Builder has intersect with.

E

They they have a lot of the concepts of the same.

E

B

I just give that this homework.

E

C

H

Comment about the parameter names. We have a similar method online dictionary and we can call them actual value and value right. I'm, a.

E

Mutable hash set of T there hold equal value vernacular, oh so this is the they want to mirror them all right. What's.

B

Wrong with the name, one.

E

Thing: I'm not like the dictionary names. Well, the dictionaries key in value- and this is what's what's the thing that if I call hash that bad, you will return to notice.

P

E

What's the reason that you already back there, so it's.

E

Why it's, if you have a case, insensitive and comparator, is I put in this dreamy? Tells you the one we already have is all caps well.

B

It's like the project, so these api's are developed by Enron who works on the BS project system. So they do that for file paths, a lot cuz. They need to know what the actual casing is, because they don't want to have it all lower case or upper case in the idea right. They want to actually render the actual value.

E

For that, we just never added that on oh I.

D

F

We had it attached to it. What what's the name they're try.

E

To value to you can tell you to actually see.

F

N

H

We have a dumb dictionary, it's just the parameters are coded differently, but it's 30 something. What Jeremy.

C

No dictionary has given this key. Tell me what you actually would strike it kind of value would do that exactly? No, it doesn't give you that we give you the value associated, but if you had a case in since all.

E

Was all I see what to be I am sure, but again I think like hash? It is really just dictionary.

E

Using I guess, if you're writing your own string in turn, have you ever seen this before great worthless.

N

All right so then, let's me pass this.

N

E

We do see zero using.

H

This method, yeah I.

E

Just noticed the lack of bar charts yeah.

C

We're missing get, it knows, we've.

H

Seen their own place, this one is very.

N

Alright, this one next, oh.

E

G

All right basically take a stand, a bite and.

E

Yeah, so there are two sets of api's. The first is uh give me two buffers byte buffers, not even her. The contents for asking quality and the second is given a source buffer. Please convert stuff to ask.

E

They're all invariant they're, not culturally, because it's like we are ordinarily inconsistent in homespun.

E

About 50% of when we're all caps and about 50% of them are gonna taste like.

H

This so the only thing here that may be worth describing if I remember correctly, I was trying to do it. I said yes, and they are not yes, headers.

E

G

No one should ever say.

H

My question was: what do we want to do with it basically say this is really just a skier you're you talking about HTTP.

J

Leave me nasty 7sp, well,.

E

They're in there.

J

They have no, including.

E

It's not specified if you, if you don't way back to the mind or part of the mind specification like it's. It's suggested that you use.

E

In practice, a.

C

Speeding, so so I spelled, this peg says basically loved one or deities.

E

From yeah I mean we're talking the bikes back, not like something.

J

Not very much credence, they think.

E

J

Or two headers in there that they actually special case and trying to interpret, as you tip, a location.

E

E

What the 1341 says is just to predefined character, sets us ASCII and ISO 8859 X and says: if you didn't specify anything assume, it's us s, so so it does. It does believe seven good afternoon yeah and that's all this is like anything, that's not as something worth asking her any any might were the high better said it just says: whatever it's I'm leaving it alone, I know people's would say, also put everything behind it.

E

No it would, it would say if there's a with a high bit on the left side, that exact same like house, music on the right side, exactly there's no case yeah, so I guess my question would be: does the suffix utility provide value I.

P

Think the Scots a.

E

We we do have a namespace system called textile Unicode where we've been putting some utf-8. You told these don't ask so that ends up. You know problem well,.

B

I mean they could also put did is any reason we can't put them aesthetic methods on ASCII, encoding.

E

So we don't have static methods on any of the other, including classes to do very particular stuff, like that. The other reason that I dislike that I spoke with Taryn earlier of us is you can subclass those types and change their behavior? What does it now mean to have an opinionated static? Api on a type is effectively a panic, so it has notion of inheritance right, but we didn't do it with utf-8, mainly because we were repeated in stuff like error process, but utf-8 we have like. We have a classic o3o.

E

That was because we didn't want attitude I'm, just like instead of asking utility, if we just focus.

F

C

F

Would be studying system things? Yes, we do have encoding dot.

E

A speed all uppercase s P as a static property that, if you ask me so this, why.

B

Did not insist in buffers for tanks.

H

That's where basic support lives. That's actually not a bad idea, because we have you think we have it this time, computing systems.

H

B

Have utf-8 format and utf-8 something parser know so.

E

You to get a format or utf-8 parser or in the system, buffers namespace, the utf-8 as an assistant, but I mean we could put this on me because of this only works with buffers. It would make something fun, listen! Survivors! This thing: bankers, thanks yeah, reasonable to me, as we ask me helper, unless we think that we would need an ASCII Ainge space inside a system, buffers.

P

Next but I don't think I would have enough types. There.

E

E

B

I think honestly, ASCII is a good, better tightening and then just put an assistant officer.

E

I was simply saying under system buffers text. If we thought we were going to have a namespace called ASCII that we would not have the title call, they don't think we knew the namespace I think we just have a static line of literally every.

F

Odell's will be out there like here's, a typical yeah. We could probably add co-defendants.

E

Definitely helped her get hash code methods. You.

F

Know in case you wanted.

E

To ask me about theirs in dictionaries, we would probably can.

J

We add one that takes a single byte well doing this upper or lower case has a non-obvious, better implementation that is kind of sprinkled throughout our code base. Yes, it might be useful just to have.

E

You know so take take the individual, a speedlight and make it up yeah.

E

Yeah I mean other things that could live here is.

E

You can just add: okay.

P

You can use a high key well.

E

Yes- and you could give me the Unicode class, so you can ask that this is a control, character or whatever, but ASCII.

J

Go straight to char easily: oh, yes, why not? It might have less general utility, but one of the things we do quite a lot in HTTP is we character for span to invites been while doing lowercase yeah.

E

So I do wonder if we want to add quality tests between Ross bites and yeah. That would that would be fine. I was avoiding those on utf-8 because there's a wallet in there, because this would be. Is this thing he did this string that I bought your high. So I used a string literal here, so even when Oracle ignore case Frostbite string that water loss part rush char and then also train people on busy looking stuff like that, make sense. What about to compare I mean sure I mean these.

E

Are these are all operations that make sense they're just yeah.

G

E

You I put this proposal here because I know that you eventually you have these requirements in your work, but if you have other api's, if you think would be useful way, the.

H

Crowd so these are the only ones that we needed, but I thought we were talking like now that we are shooting this time. Should it be kind of you know where you can go and see operations on ASCII buffers as opposed to you go, and you see kind of some random subset of operations and batters. Then the other is the K team either yeah.

E

If you compare.

H

E

Compared to Ross by ASCII buffers that makes sense but compare rust by brush chard, doesn't if the like, you should have to throw with the the substring left. He asked because it can't answer the question anymore, especially be saucer again.

E

Well, sorry, if he's on, if he's not anything that didn't, have a zero in there, yeah I can't answer this question anymore.

J

Well, technically,.

E

J

You would have an.

P

Opinion of which one came first yeah.

E

And so I think that if we wanted to add, compare and compare ignore case.

E

And ask you, but from to an ASCII buffer that makes sense, but compare and bunker Jewish grain for spring light makes less sense, because.

E

You can't have a sensible and then you can just document. This is what we do. We, yes.

P

E

Want you not to have a skeleton type of these api's for now that we want to go back and build up a form of a this sounds like that. Synthesizers seems.

F

Using only enjoyment.

E

Okay, but yes, so puff is definitely done. I'm Duke also do we need an in-place API link. You could just pass the same buffer for source and destination.

B

How do you guarantee that you can mix with both of them having.

E

A specific in place does make it more obvious.

E

There am that it's guaranteed to work instead of now.

K

You'd have to read the documentation.

E

To know that you can pass the Spanish like.

P

If the implementation of in.

E

Place is just called the.

G

C

G

Worry Christophe: have you thought of any particular.

E

So when pumping it, we did have the opinion.

D

And I made it a.

E

If you prefer another- oh my god, I was just looking to see if we had if this one needed to be on the list of things that break the rules, but we should follow the medical would be consistent and the answer is half of our things that say: ASCII all we have a capital A and half of them have all caps. So let's go with the decrypted system. Buffers banks system, buffers text, utf-8 person, yeah.

B

E

This was sitting next to you to you. I mean week. That also means in theory, the system.

E

Is a namespace center are necessarily the same having an opinion on where you want to put it. Let's go yeah.

B

We can't figure hard to ship this manner. Like bet it says it's a new type, so much of all the options in long so.

E

B

I

E

Already in trouble for being half in half out, you can add it to an old to an old native yeah.

B

So is this losers capture everything we said or is anything missing.

E

The compared buffers to strings yeah.

F

I added the dog I think yeah. Actually, I did not.

E

B

Right, I headed to doc. Now me good.

B

Everyone probably really good today, I'm Steven, you because you pull any opinions in this interesting. Anybody feel qualified to take this, or should we just put phone in those because they're.

E

You basically want to.

J

Just want to use the same storage as much as possible.

J

What's weird about that, like their.

E

Scenario here the easy answer is they should just interlocked exchange their dictionary with null women dispose that you have.

J

The dictionary, then this goes all of its members, you're, not the only one talking about it. I think the implementation here might be kind of tricky to make this actually performant, because conferring dictionary does not walk the whole dictionary when it's adding so unless it.

A

You could be calling to array.

J

And still adding, they would never do it to array the to array unclear. We need to take the I'm.

E

Growing, like there's a there's, the big lock that says, like all operations, are frozen. Yeah.

D

Yes, at that point,.

E

What's the point of having this yeah, there is a comment at the bottom of the read.

D

H

Yeah because then it basically.

C

Means you cannot ever pass this view to anybody else. No, they.

E

Were using it like there's.

C

There suggests the implementation.

E

Was disposed and if your disposes draining things that agree that canary wide and past we've engineered enemy yeah, it's also inside of your disposed method inside of a dispose month of the dictionary should no longer be hidden because of the supposed method for no type is pressing.

J

Generally, you would not call just as well oh well.

D

That's certainly.

I

J

Like socket calling dispose is a standard way to cancel some operations. That's.

E

Especially again, we would exchange dictated null. Do you have the dictionary great you get to go? Ask if any of its values were disposed of in here? This is the classic problem of we. We never understand when to do. Cascading dispose.

E

Yeah this so either we can say no word, wait. Yeah.

H

What is the comment to did say you know, one of you said that they succumb and it explains why.

E

Thing about yeah.

C

Because it even if.

E

You replace the field at the time that you replace a field. Somebody may have to read the field and attempt they might be attempting to write to the old dictionary while you're in the place, which is totally fine. It just means that the old.

C

H

Up in a register, yeah Oh Alexis do this to be interlope good. Yes,.

H

J

Don't I don't know if there's a proper way to implement this while having any performance. So the main problem I see, is that you can start calling to array in a dictionary and assume that the dictionary is going to be cleared after that call yeah the to array would use some state and then of you call add at the right moment field the thing you added just it's lost it's not in the array and it's not in the new dictionary I guess. If you made clear to array 10 or whatever then.

E

You would make it where it grabs the state that clears about to erase and then it just iterates over that state as a effectively an independent dictionary, but that's probably going to be more expensive than clearing, because it's just instead of setting something to 0 and knowing stuff out, it's probably going to have to go, say fine, go make a new bucket array so that I can ignore the rest of the state. It's.

B

The reason why he wants us in a atomic operation, though, why? Wouldn't you not even dispose, just until they drained the dictionary yeah.

J

The dispose doesn't really make sense to me, because this is just an extra allocation. Maybe he's passed the dictionary to other things that are still using it. That's like.

B

J

Look at your common, clear, they're.

E

Not gonna be using it yeah like I, don't know that we have a not give me a random value out of yourself. I.

J

Mean this, this could be useful if you're just so, you have something that's producing values and then some other timer thing that just wants to grab all the values, but.

B

Then, in the stores, the first thing you would do is stop the other guy, and at that point you can just do it because I mean like otherwise. What does your disposed doing like you're disposing elements, but then somebody else is still adding elements to it. I mean that seems pretty yeah.

J

I'm, not thinking of in terms of using it and.

B

Even even if somebody else disposes, it disposes supposed to be idempotent so like it doesn't matter who opposed to suppose first like what we'll call it first wins: I mean I mean in fairness. Maybe your dispossess not quite safe, is the the only thing that.

E

I can think of that would be weird. Is the e there's? No, the only thing that can return something, so you can actually enumerate it is to array, because if you call D, if you called get a numerator and and then behaves like, we say that we want get a numerator implementations to behave if somebody else did modify it concurrently, your for you to.

J

Get a numerator will fail, but move next yeah.

C

I think the dictionary.

J

A special case, okay, because then you would.

B

Know I think whatever, when your numerator, you snapshot your snapshot.

A

B

At the at the point, your numerating, your snapshot and then that's just in any way. That's, but that's what they're not saying they're, not like cheap operation, I.

J

H

Let's work through this scenario, so, let's say I want to dispose all objects in their collection, yep.

H

This implementation attempts to basically not miss a single item. Yep, if you don't have this method, how do you not miss you.

A

H

Have the proposed method? How do you not miss a single item same.

B

As before, like it, the first thing you need to do is stop whoever asks for the dictionary well, okay, so.

H

You have your own synchronization, no.

B

I mean next somebody I mean if somebody else has the reference of the common dictionary and keeps adding to it. Yes, this code doesn't help you with that. It just matter at.

A

H

B

Call this pose. You disposed everything in there.

E

You're gonna have where somebody else keeps adding to it. Then yeah, that's good. What happens so you call. Let's say we have the method have, and so you save our odds, equal. You know not clear to a rainy and some other method doesn't understand you're in the disposed state and completes an ad. That's in progress. Yes, now the dictionary has one thing in it. So.

C

When, when you think.

E

C

Don't know, is there a instead disposed.

H

On contusion and.

E

Then we we need policies of like. Is it supposed to dispose all the keys dispose all the values both like either.

E

Dispose disposable values that didn't have disposable keys, so, no matter what, if you're like there would still be a race condition of what dozen doesn't get disposed by this dispose operation in the in-flight ads are going to get they're still gonna be routed to the dictionary yeah man, but again, given the disposed of the outer disposal is not supposed to.

E

B

They also know Sam by you needed to be tectonic, because if you want an operation to make sense, you have to stop anybody from taking things out of the dictionary. You have to stop anybody who is adding to the dictionary, and at that point you can just drain the dictionary yeah. So why would you need anything.

E

J

I would ask, is if a to array and clear can be implemented efficiently without losing items when you're adding them, then it might have a valid value in some sort of producer/consumer environment. But if you can't do that efficiently and it requires essentially a global lock to be safe, then there's no point, but if you're doing we have much better.

E

Channel and nothing in here wouldn't say that you had single like single tape like you can't there's no give me the next thing you have to ask Mikey it's a dictionary yeah.

G

E

I I, don't think the scenario.

E

Yeah they're, very cool I think there are ways didn't give him the scenario that they're going for there are other ways I think for them to reliable.

E

If what they really.

D

E

Wanted was this, then we would need to make effectively make a clear that took a delegate of what do you want me to do with everything about you.

H

A

H

I would ask in a comment to provide more context because we may not know like. What's. Basically, there is not enough information here. What is the outer coat doing till they have what they they.

G

Are there we have decent.

E

Samples and you some scenarios I just think well it like, because trying remove. We give you the value, okay yeah. So if you were doing some loop over all the keys that you can find and you call try to remove and then it gives you the values when you just think about it, like you can do that, you could you it you had the key. You have the value. I think that the scenario they described here I think would be better solved by an overload employer that took an elegant yeah.

E

What do you want me to do for absolutely everything as I'm clearing it, and if you call that one, then it's expensive, because it's going to be unlocked any worry and it's gonna give you them. This is all the stuff that I'm erasing. As of the time, you call clear anyway, alright well.

J

That that kind of special cases and some sort of dispose right.

E

Not necessarily I mean it's it's some sort of. What do you want to happen on every item in the or every key value pair, when you call clear dispose being an obvious thing that you would want to do on that one, but yeah.

E

Maybe here logging.

E

Okay, so I mean that's just by like the two array seems like an import like an implementation, specific thing of what they want, which is they want to act on every element. Very clear, that's a that's a delegate and it's an overload is clear. It's very obvious. You call this one. It's much much much much much more expensive than the other one take whatever locks. It means for getenumerator then called get a numerator then call clear release the locks. It was in a state and that 140 been.

B

Also made a point, which is, if you really want to do what the person is stating here, you can just literally assign to the like to keep a reference to the dictionary and then assign a new dictionary to the underlying field. And then you know it's yours, you can just party on it again.

E

Like there's technically a slight race with any in progress model, that's.

B

Shortened dictionaries.

G

Always has its like racism in them, but they're supposed to be.

E

You know you made it thank, you, can read and read cool you're done with it you're just defending the thing down. Yeah.

P

That downsizing, that is aside.

E

From very specific education is like that soccer, like we very clearly say in the documentation for the most powdery like this, pose, has never intended to be read, saying, make sure every every instance anyway so sounds.

N

Good Danny, maybe there's room for a.

E

Call back firing clear, but I don't think we need allocating clear and.

B

Anyway, all right so Christoph use your yes.

J

B

Can you can add your own element.

J

To this abuse twice all right.

C

Just crisp up on the phone he's not I.

J

Mean yeah but wait for exit the takes a timeout yeah right now. You need to wire up an event. You can do this yourself. It's just.

I

C

This is about cutting and they sink metal. So there is this.

J

Way forever so.

E

You haven't you, you get call exit.

J

And then just wait for an event fire.

E

This is about yielding the current I.

E

Was looking at, it is like can't use a cancellation token as an alternative.

J

I got damnit yeah. The way you would use this is you would maybe close the standard input and then wait for some console app to finish. Processing.

B

Yeah, what's the work loans like? How do we compose cancellation token, a climber? Does everybody has to do that? You.

E

Can create yeah, so you usually you're, given a cancellation token in the forwarding it or if you're, creating one sub represents a timeout, then you do that and if you want to merge a timeout with the cancellation things that someone gave you, then you those TPS.

E

Go make the timeout one they go and the one that gave you but.

B

That's a decent amount of code. If you want to do them and it does.

E

D

B

Give me a new cancellation token that combines this conservation token good, that time on, if.

E

We cared, we could add, cancellation, token died combined with timeout timeout, and so there.

D

E

Believe Steve Howe wrote a while back a an extension method that allows you to hold wait. An arbitrary handle.

D

E

Of offices either.

B

Yeah, but what do you wait until the handle is closed or yeah.

B

Yeah I'm just asking, because if you already have an existing API the text time well, it seems like. Maybe we should have an overload that takes time or enter cancellation. Told me if you think that people many would need to pass in a time on. Maybe then you probably don't want to have everybody have that wiring code? How.

O

Do you mean inside that it should do the forwarding in that.

J

Oh I have a cancellation I've been at a timeout, so I'll make the combined cancellation token in that.

E

J

To be planned, and it's just not fun, if you like an object, an exception, you don't have to inspect, which cancellation took and was thrown yeah. That's just not.

E

The token that timed out equal to the token that you gave it yeah.

J

E

That's the again I get cancelled or did some time or were you saying.

E

J

Saying I would rather.

E

J

I would rather just time to cancel a sheet. Oh wait.

B

There's some resting if many people want to do time out, though, then it's annoying right, but.

E

I think, like cancellation token, already, has enough value for it, and if people saying that hey, why is there no time out here and they don't understand cancellation? We can have you a little later.

H

Yeah I would extend cancellation token and add this. You know add time out yeah. You have methods but thing about that is.

E

You can't cancel.

E

Well, cancellation, token: that, combined with time out, can we reduce is yes but again. Why? If you all he wants, is the time out. You actually don't want this or you just want, because you don't want the ability to go to pulse it that accounts in the state. You just want to save.

H

I'll get Isis yeah, we can. The discussion on the answer is okay and we decided to just use consolation tokens.

B

So yeah I don't have an opinion on that. All I'm saying is that the existing API takes a time onto it right, so the person has a time of today. Then it's basically with one or two years here. It.

H

Will be good to have a hundred.

J

And I wouldn't say no to another overload that suggests a timeout I would say no to one. That's cancellation. Token comment timeout. Yes again,.

B

I get to have a general helper to combine it like I. Also done I, don't like that.

H

I, don't like the overload one just timer and the reason for it is. We have guideline yeah.

A

It says you should take.

H

Consolation tokens to a.

E

A

Encompasses time.

E

Out so just and again, if we.

J

B

It's such a thing called identification all right. So then I guess.

N

This is a proof I.

A

Knew the cancellation.

E

Just I'm currently time out after is a asp net. It's a Microsoft by the asp net cordon testing. Oh yes,.

J

E

Have indicated the.

H

Timeouts could be easier so what just one question I kind of? Maybe we discussed it what's the behavior, when the constellation token is triggered.

H

We don't throw object, I mean operation, canceled.

C

Exceptions right the.

E

Tails of transitions into a consistent, if you will wait the TAS that will throw the operators so the cancellation token going into the campus or getting cancelled. The task is allowed to complete successfully because there's a race condition or it goes into the canceled state. If you awaited tasks between the cancelled stated throws where.

H

You can't send to them technically if.

E

There's a castle exception, but Stephen yellow so.

H

But because okay, so async methods that like do something, let's he said when cancellation token is triggered well, the send operation kind of didn't complete, nothing was sent. Therefore, we throw up there. You know operation cancer detection yeah when somebody waits for the process to exit.

H

And they cancel you and accountability and they can't, but through a timeout, it's bad back to these exceptions with there is no way to tell but I think the difference. Well,.

E

Then all you know is that the cancellation yeah.

P

And you can ask the.

E

The OCE, what what token triggered this exception, because that information is captured, and so, if you gave it a non timeout token, they would tell you not yeah.

A

If you just use like a saint.

E

Of TCS, under the covers like there, the cancellation token is actually provided as a parameter.

E

So you can tell it's a little ugly. We don't have there's no like that. The reason was a timeout that you also don't know like you couldn't go that anyway, because if you had a custom timer that fire cancel so yeah, you can only ask. Was this canceled because I yeah, and the thing is, though, due to the way that process tradition works like that? That method is the the task is either going to transition to cancel the were successful in later they can never transition, because the process either finish in someone.

E

Well, if you cancel something it can go into any other states, there's always a race condition between its put marketing itself into the exception state and cancellation.

E

Just because you called CPS that cancel doesn't mean you get back against advance, they can be altered, it can be it can't it shouldn't occasion.

P

Later we would.

E

Not have any code Hudson Falls, that's East yourself in this company. We would probably buff do not that you should never expect that tastic. Nothing at all. No, like any past day that we come in the middle of the operation of it goes to a halt estate.

E

Maybe to that point, your possibilities.

J

E

You aren't allowed to wait on the handle if you have inspected, but not wait for mission on the handle. Oh, the.

I

E

Of social for a synchronous, exception.

E

That's missing something: the state was involved in all that operation and we knew that synchronously at the time that one's home, that's the semantics. Well Christoph talks in detail in the book about the difference between long time, exceptions and uses of ten islands. The distinction is.

I

Argument exception.

C

I

C

I

At your next invalid.

C

Operation exception is one of the.

B

Way, I guess the difference. Is that like do you? Is it statically now all right invalid operations? Usually it's a combination of factors that, at the time you checked was true, but at the time you ran it was a normal food. It's hard to the testing. We determine those things.

E

If you think that the that the permission check on the white handle can be written in the method preamble, then they will be uses exception if you only find out after you call way and you're already in committed to the task at that point, then that's a runtime exception and it would be inside the task instead of outside right.

E

B

Right so this one.

J

B

What do we need this? The only have an array buffer right or now. Isn't that effective, the exact same thing as memory stream, no.

H

It doesn't I, don't think I really like.

C

H

One I think it does scenaries you can so.

B

You want something that is both a stream any buffer for.

H

Example, you write using a buffer writer and then you pass eternity are the trees. It will evolve. Resize grave of the writer resizes. Oh.

C

H

C

This also doesn't use it right. Oh right, okay,.

B

Didn't he have a method like a stream yeah between.

E

Like his array, buffer riders, like a sequence thingy, and then we have the stream sequence to make a scream like API for sequence, thingies and like this is already doable. Memory stream is already super special I, don't I and I hate about the writer. So we do disjunctive.

B

On Hulu that I can't follow, like we say, there's a sequence tree somewhere and we already have a thing you for the thingy and that's why we don't want it like.

E

You can already accomplished this using types of enumeration, so.

B

You can you, can you outline what those times I, because I I cannot.

E

Operator, yes, by the way, if we did, this we'd have to my balance. Yeah.

B

Ignore that part for a moment but like that's a different moment so.

E

There's there is, or was supposed to be, a tight, so array buffer right, there's gonna, be a sequence. No.

B

It's usually like there's just including a buffer right.

E

Where you can, you can get the written data as.

C

And also it's not the sequence, it's contiguous, but.

B

We did have a sequence, writer I think that's what he is talking about right. Did we not.

Q

So one of the things we've reserved the right to do in memory stream is potentially back it with something other than a contiguous array. All the API design on memory stream up to this point has been try for getting out a contiguous array. So if we expose things like get span and good memory, that would either it would be exposing that array in places where we don't today, for instance, if we take a user array and then we grow it today, we won't expand.

Q

We won't expose it, but this would expose it and then it would also prevent us in the future from backing it with say a linked list of arrays. We decided to do that. It.

J

Wouldn't be the gets banned and get memory here would only be for the writable, leaning part of your buffer I.

Q

See it's just a um it's.

E

Give me a place to write yeah, because it's not it's not designed for memory stream. It's designed for a buffer writer I, see.

Q

So, okay, there's a usability, ok, stick trick and that's.

D

E

Yeah I, like I, don't I, don't think it's gonna mix well with the screen model like mmm the reader and the writer in it like, because what how does get? How does get spam and right? How do they interact? Well,.

E

Memory stream, right, I, think of synchronous.

H

Interact which is sequentially I I was just saying we have many of these. How do they interact problems which always are resolved? You have to end no be careful and don't write. Intermix, probably.

A

H

Sequence, reader, but.

A

Having said that, I.

H

Do agree with their usability issue and also I agree with like if we should ask David why array buffer writer would not work for him. The.

B

Other question that I was like Eric just mention that we reserved the other members stream terms non contiguous memory. I, don't think that's what we have to try I think the reason we have tries because there's overload on the constructor, where you can basically say is the underlying array, private or not so.

Q

I mentioned for the night, but we do reserve the right to do it like we've, we've actually rejected serializable code changes that tried to add serializable back to this, because we've considered a reasonable thing to do to in the future, I said that the fact that we might split it up I agree. It's orthogonal to this. Now that I understand that these api's are giving you the next span. Right is that that will work. If it's not it.

E

Doesn't expand it right, then we could get these as they. They return. The next thing from the look like they had a new.

C

H

Maybe it would be better and we should ask David to make it just add, a method on array right right to give you a stream yeah, but.

B

Then they would have to probably be still party on the same data right, because you probably want to pass to some consumers, the stream and then later on. You want somebody else to use the ibuffer Rider so that so yeah dick they can basically I I.

E

Think it did make a buffer writer stream to do this, that that would be fine bit like like buffer. So we wrote the guidance after I got a writer and shipped, but I buffer writer breaks our guidance. It creates a spam out of nowhere. There's no ownership semantics on the spam. You don't know when it is and isn't safe.

E

So right into the spam, you don't know when writing into the span is actually still the same span that belongs to the I buffer writer, especially if it's a pooled implementation that can now be back an array pool. This type is I like I. Don't want us to ever add any other implementations of this type yeah. Thank you and I. Definitely don't want to on the imagery where the type is waiting in people's faces. Let.

B

Me try to capture what you just said here, saying you don't.

H

Want to project to the strength of what you say, I'm holding.

B

Back, don't worry, I mark this stream is not safe for children as much as you want. If.

J

You want to do this.

J

And memory stream isn't sealed you're, not saving.

E

Much, but so you can, you could do this yourself with its fan returns a temporary buffered and when they call it Vance, you call bright and push it into the river.

C

So extending memory stream to be a buffer writer can restrain new coming out votes and for this.

J

How many of those came from its.

R

H

To shipping no.

B

There's two votes.

P

To launch it into space, which.

S

I think means don't.

B

G

A

G

B

There's two I: don't know what do you need to remember stream? Why is there a before I they're, not sufficient for your.

N

Do you actually.

Q

People question.

P

H

Q

Implementation could be to get if they that would just expose a buffer writer off of the memory stream, so if it was either implemented explicitly or returned an object that implemented this over memory stream I. Do we think that that's any better.

C

C

Implemented explicitly and then we can do if you can't override the behavior I.

E

Mean if it's virtual, in terms of it is virtual, it returns, did I block Iranian delegation.

B

So that what was a proposal, you would have a method that is unware.

A

B

A buffer either that or.

Q

Just implementing explicitly you.

J

Have let's: let's go that.

Q

Or implement it explicitly is probably the cheapest way. Oh I.

B

See so you would have something on on a stream that gives you a buffer, Rider yeah.

E

E

Because, like I buffer Rider was the thing that really pushed the Jason writer over the edge of like this is massive memory like this is now a memory, corruption time and then we had to go.

H

Use of the pools, and not with this guy I think you, your dislike of the type, is influenced by the implementation that was.

C

Using the food, no just like nothing in the interface.

E

Because it's an interface and as a smart person once that interfaces defense intact, not semantics, yeah, nothing says what the behavior is. If you called get spam twice, you don't know if the previous one you can still use it. You look like it's so, especially if you have an ibuffer right or you use it here, you call it. You call some other method and it could possibly interact with the same object. You need to know by the universe.

C

Of whether or not it's okay to continue using this pan I, don't.

H

Think that's true at some point we didn't have the semantics described and then are some described it and he promised to put it in the dogs. I, don't know they exist or not, but I know that he worked on kind of collecting all the I mean we had a meeting about what this amount is should be for you right. It's.

C

E

C

Else has called.

E

Get spam you need to not use the spam that you used, but you don't know if someone else's case.

J

You can use it until you call advance.

H

There is true you can use it to do Co event, or is it true, gets back what.

J

Exactly someone else gets back like that, isn't obviously I, don't know why you just never do that, because.

E

I believe I buffer writer actually takes the size and and if they pass a bigger size hint than it needs to reallocate, then it's made it like it's tossed away this thing and it's never going to actually use it again. This.

J

I sent is not a requirement return smaller, yes,.

E

But if they, if they call it with a no size sent, is a minimum yeah, you cannot firm order you, and so, if you call get span five and then something else calls get spammed five thousand and it actually had to go making destination. The previous span is never going to actually, if you write to it call advance that data's lost because it doesn't care, you know it replaced it on the next caller gets banned yeah. So all of these methods destroy any results from the other methods and do.

C

You know how many not but it's safe, api's forgiving did that miss penguin.

H

Half of them yes, but this one's not sequentially safe.

H

What do you mean? It's? Not. The question is one caller. You said if you, if you.

S

H

A bogging, a sequential code.

E

I think that a ray buffer writer should solve the needs. I I would like to know why we needed on memory stream. It would involve moving the interface already, and somebody doing this themselves is like.

E

His memory stream classy.

B

Alright I think we discuss this to death, I I said yeah the question at the bottom as an API needs work, and then we can see how how bad the response is going to be. um How strong the person, wonderful, API.

B

You might actually wonder any moment now.

D

J

It's useful to have the socket.

J

We have at least one implementation that derives from that first screen purely to expose this socket internally.

E

We're aware of the state that, because it's exposed somebody.

J

Can come close now and that's one reason we may not want to do this is that quick is coming and quick will not have a socket meaning that network stream is essentially not just network stream? It's more like a socket stream. If we make it public, yeah, yeah,.

E

So if there's going to soon be- and you believe as soon implementation of network stream, that is not socket based I- think that would be confusing enough to people that we should not. Yes,.

H

So what we consider making it try- because this is this- is a very powerful feature. Yeah.

E

This is try, good socket seems fine, but I was like having a property that all of a sudden goes from having never been old afford to can be null depending on the protocol. I think that's a very confusing.

J

Change well, we haven't decided to use network stream for quick streams, I'm just saying that if we do this, it would tie it specifically to socket and it's.

R

B

There right, because you already have a separate property, it's just protected. So what happens if you derive from that? What does the property return on that point? Yeah.

J

In derived from it and you're the one making yeah, then the quic protocol wouldn't have given it to you, yeah sure.

B

But they give I derive from quick protocol like what do again. No.

J

Well, you can't right now quick, would just return the screen.

B

So then, why is it network.

N

Through there well.

J

Try seems like a reason you might do this, you might not do this is we could add one since the shutdown method, network stream and have it the generic were sockets and quick.

B

Sure, but that still means somebody came to my from that time. Yeah.

J

So if you're deriving from this type then go ahead and use the socket there's, that's not an issue.

J

I think that there's a kind of a more general problem with how we expose properties through streams like you, can compose streams really easily, and then you lose all the properties. So this is not like the perfect soul, but this would be super useful to have be able to get the sucker done. Industry I.

B

Think you know if you'd say what is.

R

J

But it would be very.

B

Very important.

J

Right, like it's very useful, to have a socket here, because then you can shut down options.

J

B

I think in general, the problem with streams is like I think you consume streams via one of two ways: either you now exactly the stream you're consuming, because it's an implementation in detail right, like you know, you call file open we'd. Well, you know you get a file through your mind like that. That's a good at that point. Having the data on that stream, that represents an underlying thing, you're doing seems generally useful. I know the other mode. Is you consume everything through to a generic stream?

B

Where you don't know what the implementation is at that point you just you know in the in the in the abstraction mode, and you can always don't gasps. That seems reasonable. The problem is: when you compose streams, it makes sensible to properties, because it completely depends on how you're composing this guy I'm.

B

If you have a buffering thing or if you're compressing thing, then the completely changes what the data represents to begin with right so to me that that's not necessarily at odds yeah, it might suck for Network streams, because if you have, if the networking clan you're using has transparent, decompression, then well, what's female you're getting back you're getting back tonight for in the stream, where you're getting the GZ decompressing stream right? Because then you lose in the line, socket data.

B

But arguably that's already the case because you definitely feel normal makes it match right, like you're you're,.

N

J

Turn HTTP content.

B

Network stream, yeah so who's, giving your network stream today well.

J

Network stream would be like TCP twine that returns a network stream. Otherwise you can just extract your own booster rocket.

B

Do you know where Stephen is consuming like what API is he using the gives me my chakra stream, ready once the underlying surface? Well,.

J

We are using this API. In already, we are deriving from network streams so that we can get that protected property. So.

B

It's something he's using sort of HTTP handler, but if you have a socket HTTP handler, how do you ever get a network stream.

J

We use streams to compose like compression.

J

So you don't end up.

J

B

Saying you wants to use the socket property you know on implementation regulations, it's.

J

Not like a niche thing, that's only used internally.

J

B

Know I don't know that all I'm saying is that if there's no API reg gives your network stream, how is making this property useful? Because if you never have an instance of network stream right? How do you know.

H

When you use, when you use.

B

The example that Steve mentions is socket HTTP answer right, in which case you still don't have yeah.

H

That's what he was asking I was asking whether only she'd be playing to me now that we have those handlers we expose it somewhere, casis.

B

Ep 9 is fairly specialized. He's.

J

Leaving that is an example of where this API would be used. Essentially, it just saves you from having just have a copy of the network stream and the socket. In this case, we can just have one stream, but.

B

His example Israel who's, pitting the implementation of Socrates. We've got two consumers of age to be funny. Yes,.

J

This is not consumer. Okay,.

B

They makes more tips on yeah yeah I mean I, jelly speaking down, have an objection to this property I mean like I, think we can make it public move out any breaking change, because it's not a virtual API. So nobody here to repeat the protected keyword ever and we have time they've done the same thing on an unexceptional be made. I will call public I think at some point. So it seems fine.

B

So Christopher, is you Fiona fine, not fun, I. Think.

H

It's fine, it's a bit dangerous, but is.

T

J

Corner cases are, if you use the socket and various things might.

H

Discuss if you mix reading from a stream and reading from the socket I, don't know what happens right, yeah.

A

H

B

Said what is your handle or a deal.

B

Other the ho squeaks, both just qu IC, yes and.

J

Quick is in progress experimental now, if it turns out, we want to use network steering, we can always adjust.

T

And the wife would be quick implementation. We can have three times give you this dream, it's not that we can't give you a stream.

J

We do give you I mean that scream to sort the implementations that we're using we're not implementing it ourselves. They hide the socket from us. Oh.

T

I see so it's just an imitation yeah, so who's implementing there.

J

Are few options there is cloud flare? Has one Google has one Facebook has one so we've done a fair bit dependency on.

H

The instead of a library from DC Li, Tian, yeah, really.

J

N

We have that everywhere.

H

All native it's gonna be okay,.

O

B

D

N

Why does it mean.

J

E

Yeah, that seems we're certain. The combinations are monsters home so for a single, a double amazement. Well,.

H

It would be reinterpret casa de angeles matches, yes, yeah any.

G

Fetal units was a magical swamp, yeah yeah.

H

Do we care about a name.

E

Same as the other guys.

E

Yeah some binary primitives right now on things like money in if they're, not naturally aligned in stone, it doesn't matter and.

C

If we around on the processor.

H

A good focus on the line.

C

E

If so, currently, we don't know how to processors, but the planet record is that if we do well on such processors, these under the covers are using the agreed on a lion api's which would emit the correct coach n2.

E

E

E

B

B

E

F

To first load them from the you actually.

B

I, honestly, I don't even know what we need to reverse the api's. Where do you use them? You're.

E

Storing stuff you're sending stuff across that way.

B

And why would I call reverse, rather than make it X that make it begin and make a dual in you.

E

So reverse envying us is, like you told me, he'll parade right.

C

E

H

Okay, I remember: we had the discussion. There was a reason why we laid the budget. Well. Why? Not? Just because we have been what.

J

We might do is if I have a like a pointer to a struct and the struct is memory, storage or whatever I have a float in my struct, but I need to reverse it. Yeah.

B

Good but then again, why why didn't you this clutch for a ride or ride even this plane? Well,.

J

You wouldn't be operating on a byte buffer. In that case, you would have just a pointer to a struct yeah.

E

You can always create assets, whereas if you had a proper reverse, what.

N

Is it as less efficient right because you basically have to first lower than storing.

J

E

Getting a span for what we would do here, other than Moore's reversal.

E

Because we would try to keep everything in a single register as much as possible and I think.

J

You need this fellow stack I think you can just reinterpret this single as an int into the register directly either way, I mean.

B

It's possible I mean the must note, from from a floating point register to a regular, very sermon. Oh.

J

B

Just noted, and then you wanted for the register right, yeah.

J

So you would, you would move to an integer register. Do the by swap I mean.

B

Load and store between register should be I, mean I'm, not an expert, but that seems like a no-brainer I.

J

Mean between the same type of registers, I, don't know what it's like when you move between.

B

So my other question: Super Show, should we just add them or should we not I.

H

Would say we should approve these API sand as yeah these ones we should've heard and then they're basically shouldn't have the other ones for parity as well. Yeah.

E

Yeah I'm I'm, looking at the code trend for pro reinterpret casting between an internet forum and it is.

E

A

Mainly because floating point nowadays.

E

Uses vectorized registration, yeah or using us and he registers and in order to load anything into a Scindia register, you're, basically stacks.

J

Yeah, so you can use like extract to do it without touching the stack at least on x86.

J

And I think there's one if it's, if you're just operating on single versus a vector registry.

J

I agree was just usin. Look at those baby.

N

All right so kids.

J

So you're justifying all the things basically.

B

What does it return? What is the end.

J

The number of bytes sent so.

B

You can pass in a 4k buffer, but it only writes for buffer for but yeah and then what is my expectation, I slice yeah.

B

So for the array, one people have to literally create a new array copy the data and then call you.

O

J

O

B

So it's the same thing you're just never running into many new. You didn't know you just slice yeah.

N

Why do you post it in point is over.

J

Because for receive from, you need to know which end point sent you that Datagram you.

N

The why is that not out, then.

J

Historical reasons likely, at this exact conversation.

B

My Gretzky was always very weird: it's like you need to put it, but also telling you something saying well, which one is it.

T

What about a sink, I.

B

Honestly think you, this one up, I.

J

Mean there's no reason.

J

B

I mean living in the out, I meant the the fact that we put all the acing ones is extension methods, but I think.

H

B

So I know what we did it, because the originally the implementation didn't need access to anything. And then we wanted to obit on the.net framework side and that's what we ended up but, like I, think, there's a long term maintenance. It's a bit of a pain in the ass.

B

So the original reason was he wanted. A Seng API is on socket on dotnet framework without chipping a new version of the framework Oh, and so that's various and in the implementation. You can make work by just doing a single, we're saying right and then now I think they have some internal access. So it's a bit of a hack. It's a.

H

B

Think that's the question. I asked last time: should we stop doing this craziness and just put them where they belong.

J

B

That's yeah I dunno. Actually, that's so that's what that's what they with no mayor, so they so they already are instance, methods and- and these guys have just basically just calling instance, methods that are in town yeah. That's all this happens right now, so we have a guy took place. Well,.

H

Internal, the other one is yes, but what is the reason for not adding these directly, as instance, method just.

B

Consistency with the existing it, yes.

H

B

That's why I said last time to me: I will just stop doing this. I would.

H

Say spawn API said you know the guys and they are in the place where this should be so.

J

H

Other API said basically a bridge forward. You know very much but.

J

In fact, I would also make thing in this extension squares and me public nuisance methods, yeah.

B

I would just say.

J

B

Because the compiler does the right thing, they hide the extension methods when you have matching instance, methods like because everybody who looks at soccer right now is like. Why are there no async method? They are. You have to know where they are I.

J

Wouldn't be opposed to that today, yeah.

B

Let's I mean let's do the following: let's just split this into two hearts and I'll just say the api's themselves. Look fine right! There's nothing wrong with that. As far as we can tell and.

H

This is for consistency, but the name received message from likewise from mothers and.

T

As the from Oh.

J

From is so we receive and the receive from are distinct, because from is the connectionless version, so you're receiving it from some endpoint. Okay I see the result. There contains the endpoint that you received. It.

J

We the names from the berkeley, sockets I.

H

Think yeah, if they take that.

T

The end points this but I'm, honest, okay yeah. You have to.

H

Another question: so we have this type called read-only sequence, so when you send, you can now send multiple buffers. Is that correct? Oh no,.

J

Do you support? We do have brushes.

T

J

That takes even raised segments.

J

It wouldn't be terrible to have something that takes read-only sequence, because you.

H

Support that exactly and then on the receive side, would it make sense as well? No, it wouldn't, because we don't have readwrite sequence, yeah.

H

But the multi buffer send would be good yeah. Can we add, let's.

N

Make a separate one, maybe yeah.

J

It's making a separate one.

N

This is not just a straightforward.

N

Alright I think I call it a because you have five minutes left no.

H

B

H

J

We also have a person send and I mean.

B

People feel strongly I mean I just hit with one ear, because my other here was busy me basically.

H

We have waited, the idea is to take arise. There is an API that takes multiple arrays and we don't now that we had in Spanish overloads I'm, saying we should there the span version of the move, the one that takes multiple arrests. Basically, every every.

J

T

With anyhow fix, it have another overload that takes read only sequence.

H

So the API today it takes an array of freedom.

T

H

Oh and I, so a correspondent thing for these api's would be to either take an array of memory of tea or take read-only sequence, one of those two I don't know. What's our preference, maybe array of.

T

Memories: I don't know yeah I'm not opposed to taking a sequence. Another.

H

So but the MPI is significantly more efficient. I actually did some measurements once because we implemented our own HTS done yeah and you would store like, for example, headers and a request line in one buffer and then content in another buffer. Because often you need to add more headaches after you write the content, and then you want to send anyone a call.

H

It's a very expensive winter of cold and literally, like almost the size of the puffers, doesn't matter it just matters whether you call the IDI once or twice. Yes,.

D

They were anything.

E

As yeah exactly the thing about remotely sequences, if you have a bunch of building and.

H

The thing is that array you know, array of memory.

H

J

Nothing says you have to try to send the entire sequence. You know, and we can stack allocate these because the API is the OSAP. So we could say you know for the first n buffers first ten segments in your sequence, we will stack a loop and.

T

J

Do you take a lower than.

T

That the LA for the memories list, but.

N

You can take a look, an array well in Spanish I was fun. They.

H

Take his family copy, disband they don't cook the memories. I've got.

J

E

J

N

Just had a common, it is like.

N

N

B

Yeah, no we're two minutes left so I call it because I think we're done for today.

J

B

I I already kept filling in more tabs as we were talking alright. So then this is it and let me just stop recording if I find the button.