.Net Foundation .Net Community Standups, 20 Feb 2020

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Join members from the .NET teams for our community standup covering great community contributions for Visual Studio, Visual Studio Code, Visual Studio for Mac, Roslyn, Extensions, and more!

Suggest an idea for a standup: http://aka.ms/dotnet-standup-suggestion

A

Hey welcome to the dotnet community stand up. This is the tooling week. I have no idea.

B

A

Supposed to talk about kubernetes today, but it's too willing week, we have some via Cermak event stuff. We have lots of really cool blog posts. We want to talk about today. Our guest today is John, Galloway John. Why don't you introduce yourself this.

C

Is crazy, so hi I'm, John, Galloway I'm, normally on the Tuesday show we started up, the asp.net community stand up and then it's now I'm over in the crossover universe, I feel like DC character and a Marvel Comics universe. I, don't know! What's going on and.

B

C

I'm here is I just recently joined the vs for Mac team yeah, so focusing on community stuff. Like this event, going on on Monday.

D

Give me fun: it's John on the team.

A

Host too, just in case we have new people, I'm Kendra havens, I'm, a p.m. on net and Cody, and.

D

I am Cody buyer I'm, a p.m. on visual studio for Mac me and John are our compatriots here on the on the Mac team. So.

A

Now that we all know each other, let's talk more about Monday yeah.

C

Well, okay, so I don't know if you want to, can you share the link I sent you.

D

B

C

D

A

Like the power to share links, no.

C

A

Links up in chat that you can check out the schedule at and that'll take you to our homepage. For this event, it's February 24th this Monday. What time do we start? We.

C

Start at 9 o'clock, so it's.

A

9 o'clock Pacific.

C

Sorry I always have to remember. Yes, we were speaking to a worldwide audience, so we start 9 o'clock. We have a really cool keynote going. We have amanda silver, who recently got promoted, which is neat so she's she's talking about a visual studio format, kind of like his product, how it fits in and stuff.

C

We've got a cool demo from a customer I'm showing they're doing some really cool stuff like in the real world building apps and how visual studio from axe working for them, and then we've got Scott hunter talking about like showing some cool demos, tons of demos. We were talking this morning about like how much time we can give them to show off all these cool demos and stuff so needs, and then right after that, so I wrote Kendra in on a bunch of these and I'm really happy about that.

C

So we got, we've got the dynamic duo, talking blazer, so we've got Dan, Roth and Kendra, and then we've got Brady doing some cool signal. Our stuff- and you know Brady, he's always cooking up like crazy.

A

Pretty good yeah.

C

And so then, after that we've got, we've got said me talking about asp net core and that's actually that's been a big focus lately in Visual Studio for Mac as all the asp.net core stuff so like when I was first joining the team. I'm like hey I, like max I've, used them some for a long time, but I'm not like a super expert, I, don't know and they're like we're doing a lot of asp.net core stuff I'm like oh I, can do that.

C

I mean there's not that many actually we've got Jeff Hall in doing some serverless stuff. Jeff's amazing and he's got some neat stuff, he'll be showing they're all just 30-minute sessions with like 5 minutes Q&A afterwards. So you know yeah impact yep. Then of course we have xamarin. So we have James and Maddie showing that yep and then the unity one we've actually got. We've got Abdullah Hamed and we've got sarah sexton, showing cool unity stuff so and then the front end. Sorry Kendra. We.

A

Named on here,.

C

Exactly so, Kendra and Michaela, showing off just like how to be awesome on a Mac, do and.net dev, so Visual Studio for Mac and then just other cool, some tricks and stuff. And then we end the day with a code party and that's Jeff and me on Twitch, and we have. We have ten vendors given away all kinds of cool swag. We have some new stuff.

C

We got some mugs that have Visual Studio for Mac um keyboard shortcuts and we've got cool t-shirts and we've got licenses for all kinds of stuff and on and on and I will stop talking. Sorry a lot of coffee this morning, no.

A

C

A

To hear more about these mugs and the keyboard shortcut sounds like a good speaker gift.

A

C

Funny thing is they're being delivered to Microsoft the big batch of them that we ordered being delivered like two days after the event, so they are good speaker gift, but during the event, I've got some like one-off ones that I spent the weekend getting printed and all that so those I don't know if you will get your actual speaker gift at the event or a couple of days later.

D

Take a blank mug and write Visual Studio romantic on it and then.

B

C

Blank white mugs and some glossy store paper, yeah print I need something to the camera.

A

Yeah I'm really excited for this um I was just I, have had so much fun prepping for my talks already, because I get to hang out with Dan and Michaela.

A

Oh, my god, Michaela and I probably just talked for like two hours, just geeking out about not even our talk, but about like what else we should do with this tool and other productivity stuff in what we see across the ecosystem, and we talked about other editors in our time just working on legs amber in studio and it was so fun I'm so excited to show off things. You.

C

Know part of what I love about this is like dotnet core is cross-platform has been for a while. We've had a Visual Studio for Mac for a while we've had, but we just haven't like connected all this stuff and I feel, like we've been a little like, we've had the visual studio for Mac team, doing awesome stuff but like if you, if you're not following them, you might not know about it. You know, and we've got the baton that team, but anyhow, this is really cool for me where it's like.

C

This is a day of dotnet dev on a Mac and it's like it's a real thing and it's awesome so I.

D

Think it's great that we're all you know showing not just the same thing as you might have seen elsewhere, like if you you know watched on that Kampf or something or some the other ones. We have new people coming in showing new things there. There's law stuff happening, and so it's not just you know not just we're gonna show Zaman.

D

Of course that's each private, but it's so much more individual to go for Mac that if you haven't checked it out in the past year or even two years, it's it's a world's difference and experience and what it can do and what's supported and I.

D

Think that's one of the big things that I'm excited about watching this is to is to really see you know all the new experiences you can happen and all the new tools that are part of it and all the new projects that are supported and really how much, how far I can take it, then from where it's coming even a year or two.

A

Everything that's happening: I have a bunch of blog posts, because February was like a great month, uh so there were a bunch of BS for Mac, blog post, specifically and I. Guess I can put all of these into our twitch chat. One was on at creating dotnet core global tools on Mac OS. If I say ed and I know John, you had I'll go ahead and shot that John had some comments to talk about it. We can now create well.

C

So I went side and I actually like we were strategizing about, like which we do, and he was like what about a global tool. I was like that's awesome. He wrote this amazing blog post and then I gave him a bunch of more comments about like how it could be even better, but it was a lot more work for him. So I was.

B

Where anyone be talking.

C

To me so is, but it's really cool so global tools. Of course you can create on any platform. It's a dotnet core feature.

C

You start out, you know creating a like a console application, some neat stuff that he did in here like so he created one that just basically says hello world, but he actually I think he links to some he's created a bunch of just cool global tools that he uses himself for just utility things yeah, so he's just like setting up the metadata, but some of the more exciting stuff is down toward to end.

D

A

Of it, look at that so.

C

Actually, scroll up just a second that that packing thing is a new feature in Visual Studio for Mac that we have new, get pack support built-in, like you, can right click pack, which is me yeah. So that's cool.

A

Highly used feature in Visual Studio sorry I was looking at like our internal telemetry. I was surprised that it was so highly used, yeah and.

C

It's neat, you know like new gets everywhere, and it's cool like that global tools are implemented as NuGet packages right, so so he talked about in here that you can command-line install it, but then also if you're, developing with it or whatever you have to uninstall reinstall all this stuff. As you keep updating, so he also shows a little farther down where you can change the project.

C

You know like the project settings so like the the msbuild tasks will will set it up. This here is the part that I think is really neat so system dot. Command-Line has this new thing called dragonfruit and it's like a semi experimental feature and the the deal with it is that you can?

C

You can add in your command-line arguments you can you can set those up and it actually will extract them out from the from the method signature. So here we've got like you know a name and int and it'll actually like show those as like you know like it, has the command line, support for it, because global tools are command line or they're, just CLI projects so, but then little further down. He shows how you can customize them more, using triple slash comments. Oh and.

A

C

He also sets it up as a custom tool.

D

Cool thing is it's: it's super powerful aspect of ps4, Mac and I. Think we can talk about in a little bit too, but there's some great coastal tools. You can add to be us format. It really extends its capabilities quite a bit, and you talk about few minutes. Didn't.

C

Europe sorry yeah I mean so. This is like any developer, spend some time reading this there's some vias for Mac, like tips and tricks, but this is just an amazing post just on global tools in general, so and and getting to knows system dot. Command-Line is really neat because, like it handles all the stuff that you you know like that adds or excuse me like just anything that you have to pass in as a command-line argument, it can autocomplete that it can, you know, have the tab, autocomplete set up and everything, so so that's cool.

C

So actually we were like digging through docs and we didn't. This could be one of the first blog posts that actually covers some of these features. Wow.

A

So are your Doc's caught up yeah.

C

We actually got that feedback on there is like. Oh, we should update some of these stocks. Yeah.

D

Did you write that feedback just like on a secret account or something.

A

Yeah I actually have a ton of ghost accounts.

C

Here's the thing that that beautiful XML msbuild stuff, those are the msbuild tasks that do uninstall and reinstall. So every time you build it automatically or installs the tool which is me I, know.

A

That you, like word same beautiful XML sarcastically, but I'm.

B

Actually, like so.

A

Impressed with the tooling that we have I.

C

A

Like look at these buttons, I can open code. Okay, sorry, anyway, yeah.

C

You want to spill the beans on that a little bit, but we we do xml. Speaking of XML.

D

C

A good segue, oh well, wait just one tiny bit of suspense scroll down a tiny bit there where it says that help output yeah, that's this is written out by that dragonfruit thing. So that's.

B

C

So, by putting this triple slash comments in and including a new get package, your command line program, it could be a global tool or just any command-line program has all this, like you know, support for, for the grandma.

C

There's one more step that actually takes like registering a thing and running global tool once, but then you get the tab, autocomplete support, so you can tab through and like updates all the stuff and then there's some there's documentation links down below, and he includes more of like how to actually build this stuff out.

D

This probably talked about a little bit in the refresh event as well as you can see, we have a link to that.

C

Xml thing I know.

D

Use my moment to shine just like no so yeah, we are actually in a nut conversion of visuals here for Mac going to be introducing the new XML editor, so it's basically based on the same code base as the new editor for c-sharp and the other for JavaScript.

D

It's all kind of the same core, but it's going to be the new editor for XML, and this is going to be super great, for you know: editing, Neve, XML files, configuration files, the same features, the same speed you get from the new editor and other languages will now be transferred over to the XML experience. So it's gonna be really fun to get that out. There we're pretty excited and that's you know we're slowly.

D

You know, as I mentioned you know year ago, so we're slowly really seeing this new editor, two different different parts of the IDE, and so you know, XML is coming up sharp. My food coming up. Other things might be coming up, so you know keep an eye out for all those different different updates.

A

D

It's gonna be fun.

A

Okay, next blog post yeah I'm, actually really excited about okay, sorry, next blog post, that is, this is vs for max centric. Isn't it oh? No! This was a general okay. Sorry I would tried to group all of my um let's see yes for Mac, like blogs, yeah together. Okay, let's talk about this one Visual Studio Tools unity on Mac, so they talk more about the Rosslyn Diagnostics and quick fixes for unity. Oh I, guess these two blog posts are late.

B

A

Was so excited because this is like specifically exactly Cody and eyes, intersection of Rosslyn Diagnostics in side of Mac and enabling all of that editor support, and this is the community going out and extending it. So they made some awesome unity analyzers using Rosslyn, and all of those can now be piped into yeah the vs for Mac editor. So you will get like light bulbs and code fixes and all of that stuff through there, but that's a picture of it on windows, I believe but well,.

C

What's really neat here: is that, like we've done all this I mean we I've done, none of it, but I've like the team is awesome. They they built all this support that uses the same like code, it's just shared code for the editor between Visual Studio for Windows and Visual Studio for Mac's. So all these amazing features like here like actually can work in both places. So there you've got the the Visual Studio for Mac experience too yeah.

D

I got that same back-end, you know essentially, as I said, is the same editor and that's why I like Kendra has this secret project that has all the different analyzers that that she's introducing to go straight for Windows and what I normally do. That's right, this top result for activity features. What I normally do is I'll pull from this every few weeks and I'll test it against Visual Studio for Mac and I'll make sure everything works and that's the extent of it that I need to do that's how shareable this codebase is.

D

There's some things that we're adding that you know custom you eyes and stuff that you know we're still gonna be working on getting this caught up, but for the most part, it's just you know, digest didn't works, yeah.

A

C

For that features,.

A

2019 that one we will put that in chat. Cuz, that's gonna, be a bit more stable because I decided to rename my repository and actually I was creating. That's right. I think some of my homework from the caber, Makayla's and eyestalk is actually to like branch or fork this repo word of her and have a via Cermak version, because I.

D

Have one on my github? Oh.

A

I was trying to find it yeah.

D

It's private private I'll send to you.

A

Okay, cool thank.

D

A

My last talk at ready, so I was kind of.

D

Merge these three.

A

Yeah, we can probably merge them and it has like 16.5 preview, yeah cool yeah.

D

A

You know: okay.

A

Let's see what else do we got so we went through well.

C

So there's this one and then we went kind of quickly. There was the one before about making the analyzers open-source, so I guess he's to kind of fit together right. It was said yeah. So this is just really cool those those unit analyzers are now open source. I guess that's the that's anything if you want to learn how to make analyzers.

D

A

Really good example and you can even um contribute your own analyzers if you're a big unity fan, um because that's the point it's making the community at all accessible. Oh, it's really cool, and it's really cool that. Like all of these solutions, we it we do force ourselves to reaaargh, attacked a lot to make everything like easy to build on a community members. Machine like there shouldn't be any like custom setup steps or anything that, like isn't already inside, of a script which actually.

B

I'm going to do.

A

Better too, it's just like responsible setup and documenting everything, so sometimes going open-source and working with the communities helps us make that investment.

C

Yeah, that's improved a lot of her time, like I I know with, like the asp net stuff. There were so many things where it's like now install core build now install this, and this it's like, as things moved over to just using this common dotnet, build on that run, it's like yes, I, don't have to spend an hour getting set up. You know I'm.

A

Not sure I, like put all of these links in the chat but I'll, you know post it because.

D

We do a link fest.

A

D

Some followers what.

A

I wanted to talk about next is the 2020 stock. Overflow developer survey is open. When did it go, but oh yeah, just earlier in February. We actually use this a lot to understand what the heck people use our tools for and what they love and of that in, like last year's was super super, informative and analyzing trends and what we're doing right and what we can work on, because a lot of it is really honest feedback. So please take that. We actually learn a lot learn things.

A

We learn things that, um like our view, only from like Visual Studio Microsoft tools when it teach us like where we are in the ecosystem and everything, and that's really helpful and.

D

This is like you know it's, we really do you know we're not just saying it. We really do respond to this feedback and make changes to our products and and our offerings based on what people are saying in this. So it's not it's not. You know, just speaking into the wilderness, we actually will respond to it. We make changes, we all talk about this. It's this and you know any other really way to give us feedback, though, is a huge, is a huge source of information, a source of guidance for us.

D

So your voice is heard. It's kind of the gist of it. I think there I mean.

C

I think you know it's sometimes we take it like to an extreme almost, but it really is cool. The Microsoft is very data and customer focus, so people will say I think we should do this or that and then it always comes down to like well where's the numbers to back that up and our customers using that feature, and maybe they want something else so yeah this. This is a great kind of input and like yes, viewing.

A

In sites like who developers are and what things they most loved I think something we kind of bragged about.

A

A lot was how visual studio code has like bubbled to the top of most loved and most popular and um like really really quickly over just over the past few years, and that's just such a great signal that, like having an open ecosystem, something that people can like to kind of take and run with it and it's easy to develop extensions like all this is so such such powerful um I guess, like incentive and confirmation I guess of what we're trying to do today.

D

This comes out all I gathered around like reading through it and stuff yeah yep.

A

I was surprised, I think maybe it was like I think it was. Last year it took like a month for people to start like circling and talking about it and I was like oh gotta get on this yeah.

A

Okay, one of the other blogs I, think John and I really wanted to talk about. Was um the Isle Spidey compiler? So um we markdown II had a really good blog post on decompiling c-sharp code and Visual Studio. We partnered with um aisle spy I, believe I'll spies and it I'll spies the third party and that yeah the.

B

Source project.

A

I was like trying to go through my head, like I'm, pretty sure it's open-source, that kind of gives like a decompilation I, want to say estimation of what we think. One of your references might be. It's been in preview for a while and we've been testing it out and I. Think now, it's like officially part of the product I think that's what we changed and what we're announcing at this blog post, but he basically talks about why it's really helpful to have.

A

Sometimes you can figure out how your references are actually so you're you have a nougat reference or something and you've input certain parameters and you're getting an unexpected result out of whatever type or whatever library you're using isla Spidey compiler can kind of help you step through it to a degree yeah.

C

Yeah I mean so a few neat things with this. One is I'll. Spy is just a great tool. It's been around for a very long time. I, don't even know like how long like could be more than 10 years or so, and it's so it's just a great tool on its own. You can open open a like a DLL or something decompile, and then you can say, like I would like to see this code in VB or F, sharp or I would like to it's got reg X search.

C

It's got all kinds of like things, so it's a really great tool for that. But then it's really neat that Visual Studio has been making it easier to like add in other assemblies and debug into other stuff, and that sort of thing I saw a thing: peach pie, which runs PHP code in asp.net.

C

They they do eval using this reference assembly stuff. So you can step in the eval PHP code, that's running under it, so like you're, actually debugging in and you're debugging in the PHP code and they map everything using this assembly um stuff, it's external assembly stuff, so really powerful. Yeah.

A

I actually didn't know how many languages does the decompilation work for? Is it well.

B

C

So I'm not sure what I else by itself does but peach pie is not using I I'll spy, it's using, but it's using some of the underlying like assembly, loading and mapping stuff, that's snare, yeah. If.

D

These guys are any project in and of itself.

A

That's really cool yeah, so you can try it out. One thing: I kind of wanted to do like respond to was the we got a lot of comments on this blog that are kind of like Oh No. Why aren't you better protecting my IP like? Why? Are you making it easy for people used to use idols by against my reference, and the funny thing was I've actually got a lot of long-standing feedback that I'll spy doesn't do enough of DEET like accurate enough Deacon violation.

A

So it's and that's like some of the most popular complaints about our tool. Is that they're like what this isn't like full fidelity? This isn't what the source looks like no way and our point is kind of like yeah. That's our point. We it's it's a balance that were strange in.

B

A

We're very aware that we're striking it, because if you can't to compile down to a certain level, then the IP will be better protected. Well,.

C

I think an important thing is that MSI L is not code. Offhe obfuscation, like it's a specification that there are other decompilers out there, like you can bet like just because I'll spy makes it easy to browse through source code. There's there's a lot I mean reflector was around before this there's tons of others like if you search for ILD compilers. So your code is not, you know obfuscated just because you compile it yeah.

A

And honestly it doesn't, it doesn't make sense if other editors allow you to use this kind of productivity tool, and we don't just because it's.

B

A

Don't know what like more League like we're, not really protecting anyone by not knotting it I guess it's.

B

A

Like like again, it's an open source project, it can be run over any reference. What are this? This is just the state of technology. We have to keep yeah and.

D

There are some great tools out there that you know will obfuscate your code to the point of more option to say that work too many times and once and.

C

Then a lot of time, if you're, like there's the IP side, but there's also secrets and you shouldn't be putting secrets like passwords and things in your source code. Anyways right, you should be using like token authentication right.

D

No matter how good your office occasion is: don't put your password in the source yeah, that's my law, I'm! Looking around camera.

A

Okay, there was one more blog post did I want to go yeah, yeah, okay, so um this was really cool. This is an error, handling or a better err. Logging tool, Elma I, guess I'm, not sure about the pronunciation, but they actually so it's another example of like a nougat package in the ecosystem and this logging tool um creating analyzers so that you can better use their frameworks and libraries and everything that they're created I'm, actually getting a lot of these really popular posts from like our dotnet reddit.

A

So a lot of these got like over 100 votes and they were actually kind of interesting, um so I thought, since it's making a splash there, we might as well steal it and put it on the live stream. Looks like this really resonates with people I'm.

C

Sorry, a lot of coffee this morning, Alma stands for error, logging with modules and handlers, and it goes back a very long time like so it was. It was on the original, like asp.net like with web forms and stuff and they've updated it over time, and it's it's really cool to see these. These projects like continue to add features and be supported, and then you know they have a pricing model and a free model.

C

So it's really cool to see that you know I, don't know just to see a well-loved open-source project with a with a good ecosystem like continued over years and keep adding stuff and.

D

It's that's a good fun fact that you knew the acronym merits. Yeah.

D

Anything I can't.

C

Remember your name 30 seconds after I talk to you, but I can remember area logging with modules and handlers.

A

Yeah, that's so cool yeah I just found it thinking like. Oh, this is like really helpful. I didn't know the history and how widely it's been used. So it makes sense if it was a trending cool yeah like.

C

A

By Scott Hanselman over here on their website, yep, look how excited he is about it.

A

D

A great idea, Noma.

A

C

My asp.net modules and handlers were like two ways. You would extend asp.net webforms back in the day and there were very few ways to extend things and now you've got middleware and di and all kinds of things, but so the name is kind of like I. Don't even know that the name totally makes sense anymore, but it's just alma and we.

A

Just call it a really cool, we did have a question in chat. Is it okay to put the password and a web config.

A

C

Well, so that's a great point is that you can use especially like with a asp net core is that you can use environment variables, and so you can have like you know your local things and store those in user secrets and then in when you deploy it, you set it up in an app secret or in Azure app. What is it secret?

C

What's the secret thing, and this is the one you forget.

A

C

Yeah we and we do actually have really good Doc's. If you look in asp net docs under like security, we have really good like there is a good walkthrough on exactly it like secret storage,.

D

And the rule of thumb is the furthest. You can hide your password. Do it because it's just you know best practice like.

A

Configuration provider Keeble.

C

A

C

And then protect secrets and development, that's a nice feature, and that was a big like thing that they added as they were thinking through. What's wrong with asp.net classic is when they did asp net core they're like we want to make it, so you can securely store your secrets all the way through and then also even things like database passwords, like you.

D

Know Sue's.

C

Database passwords right he's like um what's it called identity, I forget.

D

C

D

The good point is that you know: can you just spoke on this previously, like the process of open sourcing stuff can sometimes force you to adopt best practices. You should have made knocking the whole time, and this is exactly one of them. You know there's a lot of code out there, where people have. You know as a code comment that password for the database that they're connecting to or something and it just don't do that.

D

You know assume that it's going to open source at one point and then it just makes you write these good practices and make these good decisions assume.

C

That somebody may accidentally commit something to source control right right.

D

Exactly yeah I.

C

Saw in the in the connection string as it scrolled by it was trusted, connection is yeah.

A

C

For sequel, server, you'd want to use a trusted connection.

A

D

That is the security standard.

B

A

Can invite Barry on and you can just yes.

A

D

It's it's such a like. It's such a critical thing to like yeah, it's I'd.

A

C

Is good to have it baked into the frameworks you're using and things as much as possible so that you don't have to think about it too much! It's nice to you know what I mean it's nice to just haven't baked in, but definitely that that doc is really helpful for the asp net and then there there are some docs for others as well. Yeah.

A

That actually reminds me of a post on it was on the.net reddit, and it was. Why is it so it was basically like. Why is why are there so many steps, and why is there so much complicated stuff to creating like a basic, secure, login for a website and we're like well and the community kind of rolled up their sleeves and they're like this is because it's actually really difficult to do.

A

You can the more like layers of security, you add the more secure your app becomes and it's and none of it really happens for free.

D

A

D

It's about twos, the more layers, the security you add, there's also more resistance from the developer. For wanting to you know, jump through those hoops so to speak, so you have to make it efficient and easy for a developer, but the same time also secure. So it's a really interesting balance and you think about like designing frameworks and designing in languages.

D

It's a really interesting thing to study and kind of understand like what that balance is because there's also this the real world that people have a job to do and that they get done quickly, and so you have to make it easy, like keyboard, does like the other tools too, to make it as efficient as possible, while still maintaining that security.

A

C

Nice to that key fault is not just a password storing thing like it actually handles like key rotation and some of those other like and- and you do, there's some good comments in the chat. But it's like as much as possible. You want to move away from passwords and move to token based things and and it's true it is a lot more complicated, but it's worthwhile because you know most like tokens. They even do things like really issuing tokens and bearer tokens and all this stuff that like makes my head hurt.

C

But it's it's a solution to a real problem and.

D

What's more complicated than setting it up, it's hammer tell your customers that you lost their data. That's losses.

C

D

C

Companies there are companies that go out of business because of the legal liability of, like you know, like disclosing user data and stuff. So it's a big deal. Its security is not ever something where, like you're gonna, you know like in the moment as you're building something it's not like. Hey boss, I made our system more secure. Isn't that great, like yeah but ship, the features get the thing out by the risk is really really bad. Yes,.

A

It's hard to like sort of evangelize this responsibility to a team. That's honestly we're like what your team culture is comes in, because your team culture of like whether or not you can do things right and evangelize good practices is kind of directly contrasting business goals, sometimes and knowing when to push back and when to stick.

A

Stick to your morals, I guess: yeah! It's it's almost! It's wild that a lot of it is put on individuals on the individual developer, but now.

D

Her again so philosophical about, like you know, is.

A

All about it's just it's.

D

Gone from the tooling to security.

A

D

Say about security.

D

A

I was trained to search for the link that I was supposed to put all of the other links in. It was the link link link of all the links, the URL list, yeah, so.

C

It's I can send you over the limb yeah.

A

I will put that together, probably right after this stream did. We have anything. I'll see you on it to talk about.

D

Just you know some random chat, I piss positive questions out in the chat. Anybody everything you wants to talk about, see we're gonna have our estimator. Oh, when are we going to have iOS simulator on vs Windows without having to pair a Mac device? I would ask that at the xamarin stand up as ever say that Mobile? Well, it's.

A

Not really something we have control over, because it's a.

D

A

D

Exactly so, I know that you know there's a there's some stuff, like hot refresh hot reload on xamarin, that you know hot reload essentially allows you to riddle an application and design time at code time on a device or simulator. And so, if you have a device on you, it essentially gives you that ability. But it's not necessarily the same thing that you're asking for, but at least check out realest.

A

Somewhere in your loop, you have to have a Mac like an apple operating system connected. This is.

D

A

And that's an apple, hey, Dad! There are some.

C

Cloud hosted things there's like Mac and cloud and some other things that so you don't necessarily have to have a physical one.

A

Yeah well, okay, the funny thing about Mac in clouds and, like I, think I, don't know if it's internally but like, even as your has to own physical Mac devices for every VM that we allow people to use I, don't know how Mac and glad is doing that. I think.

C

You're, actually so I'm not sure, but I think that they're actually like you are renting time on a physical device and they are like actually like. You are the one using it at that time. I don't know, I agree. It's very conflict, probably.

D

Best not to ask yeah.

C

It's not like just a hackintosh VM in my understanding, yeah.

A

D

Oh yeah and there's another question: I sorry about you, WP on Mac. Wouldn't let go how about learning you wpm react um know if it's there that I know of no.

A

D

Sayin, oh, why.

A

D

Running you WP on and WinForms on, on a Mac, which you know it's interesting and not to get on a self box too much.

D

But this is one of the questions we had when we did the new head of there, because then you had the editor obvious for when there's this WPF rikuson exactly WLAN forms, but still a window centric a window, centric toolkit, and so what we ended up doing was you take the core of it, the business logic, and then you put the native talking on top of it so cocoa cocoa, and that this guy Taylor calls a cook anyway, and that gives you all the shared code with a nice UI on top of it, and that's kind of the approach that I prefer that's kind of the person xamarin takes.

D

Is that you have you know a native UI on top of shared code, so you style that native looking feeling it fits in on that. But you know I definitely understand that does to do the other stuff as well, but that's that's at least my preferred approach. We have salmon Mac, which allows you to tea right Mac. You eyes using cocoa using.net, so that might be one approach to take sherry versus logic and then write. The UI and Tamra got mad. There's.

C

It so I'm, not at all an expert here, but does xamarin xamarin forms, has some support for Mac as well right, I. Think.

D

There's an experimental stuff going on yeah, nothing, nothing! That's like in the main main master tree Gordon. You know what have you but there's. Also there are third-party toolkits, there's there's you know there. There are the toolkits out there. You know platform is Avalonia. There's some. You know you'd some, some third-party tool kits that also offer a sam'l experience, for you is on the Mac as well so but stuff out there to look at Encarta would write, have Encarta. That's.

A

D

Was like when my first perhaps I played with like used to use like you could like go on a map journey? Remember that they.

A

Were probably built with done that I know we have like a flight simulator somewhere. It's.

C

Just honestly, it's just a bunch of random like garage sales, sort of crap. That's just there's some stuff that predates dotnet by a long time in that room.

D

C

A

D

A

B

A

This is channel 9, studios cool stuff that they put in the background.

C

There's fun stuff yeah.

A

D

Can even see a 3d printer yeah.

D

There's a printed: was it printed with this 3d printer too big.

A

Those are small, what's.

D

The I got hit refresh. That's a good look, really close. The screens.

D

A

So anyway, I think we're good.

D

C

D

C

To end with the ad again for Monday, if you're, if you're a dotnet, dev working on Mac or just interested in hey, what's the life like for dotnet dev on a Mac like please show up and we're actually we're really trying to gauge, like you know, what's going on so if you can actually hit save the date, it's on a Monday, you may forget, you it'll, be like halfway through the day and you'll. Be here. I forgot that thing.

C

So what you can do is if you go to that link, there's a save the date thing. It adds it to your calendar Monday when you roll into work or whatever you do. It'll pop up on your calendar and you'll come join us and you'll get free stuff we're giving away cool like t-shirts and coffee cups and stickers, and all sorts of so you'll want to be there for the party.

D

I was got a message. That's hot restart is what I meant to say: I just linked it in the team's chat Kendra. If you want.

A

To post that, and it I.

D

Don't have it I, don't know: twitch posting rights.

A

Wait all right. Thank.

D

You cold winters, cold, restart, coming.

A

All right: well, thanks: everybody we'll keep chatting and post the URL Ellis thanks for tuning in we'll see you on Monday the Viesturs.

D

Yeah Monday and we'll.

A

D