.Net Foundation Virtual User Group, 22 Jul 2021

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From YouTube: The State of .NET on Mac OS - PHINUG 2021.07

Description

This session is run by the Philippine .NET Users Group (https://meetup.com/phinug) that hosts meetups in Manila, Philippines.

Meetup link: https://www.meetup.com/phinug/events/279313304/

The .NET framework (and the wider ecosystem) has embraced a lot of openness these past few years. However, as the journey to "One .NET" is still unfolding, there is a lot of confusion on how .NET can be used on MacOS. There is Mono, .NET Core, .NET 5, Xamarin.Mac, Xamarin.MaciOS, MacCatalyst, .NET 6, and MAUI.

This talk aims to bridge the gap on these various naming conventions and technologies around .NET and MacOS. Various development environments such as Visual Studio, Jetbrains Rider, and VS Code will also be covered in this talk. There will be a series of demo and shared resources - so get ready for some action!

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About our speaker:

Michael Peña (aka Penny) is an experienced Filipino technologist currently based in Sydney, Australia. He is a Microsoft MVP and the co-author of "Cloud Analytics with Microsoft Azure." He currently works as a Director of his own consulting company "Datachain", tackling some of the most complex problems in modern software projects. On his free time, he gets involved with the tech community and enjoy quality time with his family.

A

Hello and good evening, everyone, um uh I'm john lim happ, I'm the community manager of the philippine users group and I'm also a principal developer in that company called asia and uh yeah, it's a very stormy night uh tonight in in manila, and then it is actually right outside my home is flooding right now and- and so I hope that everyone um watching this- uh uh a stream and there and all of your colleagues are safe and and dry uh in in this uh this evening, where we have a typhoon um ravaging manila and then, thankfully, the thunderstorms are done and um yeah not not uh audible anymore, but but we hope there isn't any more um to come for everyone so yeah.

A

Just just wishing everyone is uh a safe, high and dry and warm and and uh work wherever they that they are while watching this stream now uh yeah.

A

So tonight uh um we have a very um special guest um who is actually a bit of um he's, a veteran for from the um he started with the philippine users group, some some time back, maybe a decade ago or or a little less than a decade ago, as a young, up-and-coming, uh a community um community community leader, um but he's now based in australia and he's continued he's continuing his work as a microsoft mvp there, um michael pena, um he is going to talk to us about the state of dot net on mac os.

A

But before we go to his talk, um let me just thank a few of our. You know uh the people who are out helping us out so number. First one is dotnet foundation. uh um Thank you very much to them for uh hosting our live stream. Right now and and and for also, you know, providing a venue for users, user groups around the world um to be to be uh um broadcasters in live stream um on on both on youtube, live and in other platforms, um so yeah. So thank you very much for them.

A

If you want to be able to watch user groups, you know dotnet user group events, um azure group events, cloud events from other countries, uh um you know, and and and and just be able to join them, whether they're from the us for offer from uh for from europe or from the philippines yeah.

A

Please go to theirmeetup.com uh page meetup.com.netvirtual.net, dash virtual dash user dash group and join them so that you could see all these events coming around the world and also subscribe to uh their their channel on youtube uh uh so that you could be able to see the different uh uh um user group events even from the past and there's also a ton of uh very nice uh dotnet videos available in in in that platform, so hit subscribe. When you, when you go to their youtube, channel and and yeah, he would.

A

You would see a lot of dot-net content from all over the world right. So um so uh without further ado, uh um he's he's a microsoft mvp for for for uh azer he has authored. um He has authored a book called called cloud analytics with microsoft azure and he now works as a as a director of its own consulting company data j that data chain. Yeah. Sorry about that all right. Let's uh give a warm round of applause.

A

Yeah but thank you for for being here so all right, I'll give you uh I'll give the floor over to you and and let's move to your to your uh topic tonight.

B

Okay sounds good.

B

All right thanks everyone for having me so for today, I'll be talking about the state of.net on mac os, uh specifically, um you know how you can actually create mac, os, apps, using.net and a little bit history and what's the current state and what's to look forward, you know in the future.

B

So a little about me. Yes, as mentioned by joe and emma microsoft, mvp, but for azure, but formerly a windows, dev mvp, specifically with xamarin, and I'm now running my own consulting company here in sydney, australia, working on a lot of you know different projects involving a lot of different technologies, uh blockchain.net web mobile. What have you um that's kind of like my day-to-day um tinkering under the sun?

B

All right? So just a quick agenda for today um you know I'll be discussing the some nomenclature and definition of terms um because for one there's just you know so much happening in.net and that whole history around it and second, is you- know I'll, be discussing different tool sets and ide in particular, you know like um if you're jumping, to do some coding on mac os- and you know you want to use c-sharp and.net.

B

What are the options around and you know I'll be discussing about mono, xamarin.net5 and dotnet6 and maui at the same time, all right so to begin with um various you know, um the mono projects started way back. I think 2004 with the idea of having.net run on unix or linux type of systems, so that it's not just you know running on the windows ecosystem in particular.

B

So miguel de casa is the founder or you know the one who started the mono project um and you know the whole idea there is that um if you want to create.net, if you want to use dot net and c sharp in particular, how can he actually use? um You know mono to port that and run that on mac or linux, so that's kind of like the whole idea there.

B

um It's been an interesting journey since then like um if you're in that early space, um it's kind of like a funny story on thinking about that whole. You know old microsoft, ways of thing we're in like everything's within just the microsoft ecosystem.

B

You know with sql server.net c sharp visual studio um windows they're, all kind of like bundled together as a whole. um So yeah mono was kind of like a very um inspirational uh movement towards making you know net available to uh all over the platforms.

B

So back then um I'll. Do a quick demo on how it looks like um just to give you an idea of like now. How does it really works for mono and dotnet behind the days? So the whole um you know um concept there is that, for example, I have a c sharp file in this case.

B

It's just a hello mac os.cs and I'm using a visual studio code here, but you feel free to use any id of your choice so once you've installed mono you can do something like on csc and the c-sharp file um back. Then it was still called msc, which is mono um source compile. But now it's now standardized csc.

B

Then you know it basically runs mono to create that an executable in that case, you'll see that you'll have the mono uh hello mac os.xc file over there, and then you can do something like mono, um hello, mac, os xe and there you go so simple as that, like a c sharp code um compiled in um using mono and um using mono, you were able to run the executable um and basically you know, get an output on your mac or on linux.

B

So um that's pretty much it in terms of um you know simple command line or simple c sharp file that you want to target um on linux or on mac back in the days and, interestingly, it's very. They have a lot of shared technologies with wine technology which allows you to run windows apps on um on linux.

B

So back in the day, just a quick nostalgia feel you can also do something like um run an asp project on on mac or on linux.

B

When I say asp, it's not even the asp.net mvc, so literally just the aspx, you know um terminology back, then it's as simple as running an xsp4 and you know um assigning a port where you want to run run.1.

B

So if I do that so now, I've created a um running. um You know like like a running self-hosted server and I can call it the aspx file.

B

uh Let me just quickly open a browser and do a local host, um 1992 and hello asp.aspx.

B

Let me just share that one there there you go so simple. As that um you know you were able to run an aspx uh file on your linux or on mac. So it was all magical. um You know with this technology that you know back, then it was kind of like um um a second option or like it's an option. If you have an existing asp project that you want to host on mac or linux, then obviously from there on uh net has evolved, asps involved, which I'll be talking about in a few.

B

So from mono what comes next was mono mac, which is basically allowing you to um use mono and target mac. Specific libraries um in particular. You know, kahua library features like, for example, ui components like storyboarding, the simple and whatnot, um so mono mac allows you to have that native bindings on the mac os apis and they are all expressed and exposed as c c-sharp. So you can use c-sharp to kind of like develop a map os app and um under the hood. It follows the same principles wherein you have a an app delegate.

B

You know main entitlement spilis and it uses xcode really to bundle the app and create the you know: the bundle which is the dot app file um so yeah. So from mono mac. It was you know, relabeled as xamarin map when, once the founders created xamarin and they continued the development of mono uh from there on so.

B

From the xamarin uh mac native, there comes a newer technology which I think was introduced around 2011 2012. um yeah. I did try this one when it was still in beta and it was called xamarin forms. So xamarin forms is a cross-platform ui framework that allows you to create a um and you know a variety of target platforms such as mac, os, ios, android and windows. So it's like um you, have a single cross platform um code base, specifically the ui components on how you actually render those ui components.

B

They're all you know um transpiled, as native as if you know I how it would look like on mac os button, that's how it's going to look like, but then the declaration or how you coded it in in xamarin forms is through c-sharp or xaml or or f-sharp.

B

Then what that means for a xamarin map project is that the xamarin map project referenced the xamarin forms project or in, like you know, the xamarin forms creates the app layer or like the ui layer of things, and that's the one being loaded by the native xamarin map um project. Then from there on. You know many a lot of different features. A lot of different um evolution happen from their own, a lot of different components, a lot of different cross-platform technologies.

B

um You know in part in particular, there's like an explosion of um conventions with mvpm uh with a model bpu model, and there are like a lot of libraries now are in it's a single implementation on forms, but they would um invoke differently on each platform. For example, um you know storage like so, although you're calling it um in xamarin forms the way you implement, it is still uh different across different um platforms.

B

So that's my demo to xamarin map and xamarin forms so for that one I'll be using um visual studio.

B

Reload from this yeah I'll be using using visual studio for mac, um so just say: fun fact: um visual studio format, actually we came from xamarin studio and xamarin studio came from um mono uh uh mono develop ide. So it's you know it's all progression from there on. So the visual studio for mac didn't actually came from the visual studio for windows. So that's why it lacks some of the features that you're probably familiar with the visual studio for windows, so yeah all right.

B

So I'm using visual studio for mac and, as I said earlier, a xamarin map project, basically references a um the xamarin.map library and at the same time it follows the same principle as if you're creating a xcode base. You know you're using xcode to create a native, swift or objective-c project.

B

So you have an app delegate, a main.cs and a viewcontroller and a storyboard. So what's interesting, with with xamarin for mac and visual studio for mac in general, is that if you open a storyboard like, for example, a main.storyboard.

B

Under the hood, it's actually going to open, xcode and xcode will actually treat this as a as if it's a you know, an xcode project. So you see the app delegate becomes now an objective c um code and um right then, whatever for example, um changes that you do here right. So, for example, I change the hello from mac to hello from xamarin.mac right. So whenever you you do any changes here right. Okay, let me extend that a bit.

B

Right so whatever changes you do here once you close it, it will apply now to the visual studio for mac on ide. So if I run that.

B

There you go now. I have a native mac os app written in c sharp and that's all because of um xamarin. That um library.

A

Benny, can you can you zoom in? There is a request. First.

B

Okay sure sure.

A

Yeah, you are uh at least yeah and larger. Thank you.

B

No worries, okay, so that's xamarin um for mac. Now I wanna go to uh the next one, which is um zarman forms.

B

Okay, so xamarin forms is kind of different wherein you have two projects in there, so you have a xamarin forms project and you have that you still have the xamarin native project just like what I showed earlier, but what's different here is that for one, the xamarin native project references, the xamarin forms project yeah, the one you see here it references that zarman forms project there right and if you look at um here in the did finish loading this actually calls the load application new instance of the app from the forms project.

B

So this the app that summer xaml from the forms project, it's actually being called by the app delegate of the native project. So that's really, you know what just happens under the hood that um you know whatever uh rendering you do or whatever um coding, or um you know, declaration you have in simon forms project. It's now loaded inside the native project. Here.

B

um What's interesting, though, um is that on a xamarin forms project? Besides, you know using mvpm or any convention like that in visual studio for mac, it now supports a um the concept of hot reloading.

B

So what that means is that, for example, I close that one all right there you go so this is your native. um You know xamarin map or a native mac os app written in xamarin forms loaded inside the xamarin native app.

B

The cool thing about you know um doing it in visual studio for mac now is that it now supports a uh hot reloading. So, for example, I want to say hello, everyone so see. You now have a much more on real-time um kind of like ui prototyping tool, that's available. So that's one of the key advantages of using xamarin forms when creating a um a mac project, not to mention um you know. The components that you do here on your xamarin forms project can actually render natively on different projects.

B

Let's say you want to target ios as well or android. So, that's you know. A lot of those components will be shared. um Some of them might not look exactly the same and you have to tweak them accordingly. So xamarin forms allows you to do that.

B

um So yes, so if you're creating a a ui first kind of like a project- and you want to target mac os, I would really recommend using xamarin forms, but if you're you'll be spending a lot of time, interfacing with the native um libraries of um of mac os, let's say you want to call on you know the cf, networking or location or all those different, specific libraries.

B

Then a lot of those code will actually be living inside the um native mac os project, not on the xamarin forms project, but then xamarin forms also allows you to call those specific methods. Within you know: disarmament.

B

Forms all right so.

B

B

So, moving on um now, there is now called something like dotnet5, which actually you know a the predecessor of this one was called.net core. You know from that network, um one two all the way to three then from three they skip. You know four, um because you know with the naming uh pattern of the dot net framework. Four, it's becoming confusing, so moving forward.

B

It's a it's now just called net five um and again it didn't, there's still a lot of confusion on what really is dot net five in particular with how does it apply to mac os right? So what does dot net 5 really means for mac os, um so by definition, dotnet, 5 or net core is a general purpose framework that doesn't just target windows anymore. So it now start it's now um using a self-hosted technology that allows you to um you know, use linux or mac os to host a.netcore.net5 application.

B

Now what that means for mac is that, for example, you are creating an asp.net project right within the asp.net family. Let's say: blazer web api, grpc angular view um server rendered. uh You know web apps they'll work on mac os right because you're treating mac os as your host of those apps right, um for example, console apps worker services, machine learning, iot docker, um you know they they can use mac os as the host of those apps.

B

What that net file doesn't do is that it doesn't really interface with the um libraries that we have on the um on the xamarin. that I showed you earlier. So it's not yet there. So what that means is that you know that net 5 doesn't really. You know interface directly with those um not just in mac os same with. You know, xamarin mac, as I mean ios examine android. So it's not yet a single um kind of like um underlying framework that calls those bindings and up until this point um with dotnet5.

B

You know we are sorry with xamarin forms and xamarin uh mac. It's under the hood. It still uses uh mono and those related technologies um to call those bindings, um and that's where you know that whole one.net family would come into place eventually in the future, like um that net, seven and in particular, um so just wait.

B

It's gonna get there at some point, but for now um what it means is that if you wanna use dot net five, you can create those this different type of applications, um but not really um a mac um specific.

B

You know um kind of library uh bindings, but then, alternatively, what I discovered is that since you're treating uh mac os as a server rather than you know, you're creating an app that will be installed on mac os, um you can actually call some system variables and command and call the command line. Interface such as the airport and stuff like that. So that's just something to uh think of.

B

um For example, you want to see who's currently logged in, so you can still use the system variables, like you know, system, environment variables, like uh username, um you know and sys, and those different properties that you can look at.

B

All right over to the demo of that net, five uh in particular I'll, be demoing a web and worker service, so for this one I'll be using um a different id which is called um rider okay. So I got two projects here, so I'll probably start with a worker service first, which is a much more straightforward project.

B

So uh let me just increase the point.

B

Okay, so one of the advantages of using rider is that if you're, you know impressed with um resharper back in the window space or back in the windows environment, so this actually uses or leverages a lot of those smarts um a free sharper. So that's it's very ideal.

B

um You know if you want to look at those specific premium features of an ide, so, for example, here right, so it's actually showing me that this can be improved, like you know, rename the property to time capital t instead so um yeah one of the um advantages of using the rider id not to mention um if you're also familiar with the wider um jetbrains ecosystem. You know with android studio, so this might be a very useful tool for you as well.

B

So basically, this is just a simple, um a worker service application that allows you to create a host builder and basically add this worker class as a hosted service. So this worker class here what it does is just you know, running a non-stop um until it's canceled, a non-stop logging of just saying uh that networker on macos running at this time- and you know generating a random number.

B

So if I, you know run that in writer, um you know it comes with. Obviously a um a console and an output previewer of what's happening.

B

And there you go so I can debug this. um You know like debug this or run execute this on on ryder, no problem with that one so, but then another fun fact or one of the you know. If you want this worker service to be an a mac, os application, there's actually a way to do it.

B

So that's where a um a tool called um platypus comes into play, so platypus allows you to kind of like um wrap a you know, um any sort of like an executable that um and kind of like wrap that as a that app bundle.

B

So what it means is that since the net core or net 5 app is self-hosted, meaning you don't need to install the net framework and all those you know underlying application dependencies, it can run on its own right.

B

So all you just have to do is to make sure that you target um you target the uh os runtime when when creating a publish folder. So what that means is that um when you do a dot net, publish just need to make sure that setup.net publish with the run time of os x x, 64., okay. So I did that already, and um you know with that it was.

B

I was able to um kind of like create this dot app file, and if I run that you have options as well to um choose whether you want to run um the app and say you know um just run in the background or do you need root privileges and whatnot?

B

So that's another option to look at if you, for example, you're creating schedulers or you know, timers or different um kind of like applications that you want to use on mac os.

B

All right so um moving on to stillon.net 5, the next one that I want to show you is that um let me just cancel that quick is a you know, a simple asp.net web api project, um a dot net file web api project.

B

So um but what's interesting here, is that this workflow here you know back in the days.

B

Let me just zoom that in so back in the days this whole workflow, it's almost impossible to do uh or very hard to do on um on mac os, um because in particular, um even if you have the ide, um maybe you know you don't have the underlying dependencies in the tools. So what I want to show is that if you're, for example, you're still going to have sql server as a back-end, you know back-end database and you're going to create an api and you're using mac.

B

So this is probably a um an option to look at on. You know a kind of like a setup to look at, so this is just a standard. um You know like um it's just a standard web api project, nothing really different, but what I want to show you is that um I created a you know um for the docker dv context, using entity framework core.

B

Right so I was, I can actually interface to a sql server running on this mac, os machine that I'm using right now, but obviously that's only possible with at least right now with docker, so with docker you can actually pull in the sql server or linux image and um run it.

B

You know in your mac, os environment and just you know, with docker, you have your own sql server instance running on your mac, and with that you can use an ide called azure data studio to actually you know um like perform some basic queries around it um and there you have it. You have a workflow end-to-end.

B

So if I run the um this project here,.

B

Right so with rider, it also supports that whole. um You know um launching.

B

All right launching a browser and launching swagger.

B

There you go right, so the you know the familiar environment that you're, probably used to in windows or not or if you want to you know, have the same type of workflow. You can have it here. So, for example, I want to add. An item is um painted with a dot in between and it's enabled true yeah simple and there you go from there.

B

I'm gonna open, azure data studio and perform a query, and there you go all right. The values inserted there and you know with. Obviously, since this is an asp.net project, an entity framework, you have all those different um startup conventions and um you know um properties that you can do like, for example, uh in the. If the environment is development, you can ensure that the database is deleted and created view swagger and whatnot. So you can.

B

They are all very much supported running on mac os and in in writer in particular, you can have uh configurations wherein, for example, um yeah like if you want to add environment variables such as setting the asp.net core environment equals development. So all of them, um you know you can now set them up in either on writer or on your command.

B

Line all right so moving on now I want to talk about map catalyst, so map catalyst is basically um an evolution of the mac os ecosystem. This is outside of the dot net eq. You know family, so catalyst is basically sharing more and more um sdks between mac, os and ipad and having a more unified components like you know: pop-up buttons, tooltips windows, sidebar and whatnot. So what that means for um format?

B

Is that on.net six it now it's now one of the supported um workloads, all right, so on.net, six less maui. There are now some. You know more shared libraries, but not all of them yet uh between xamarin mono and the full.net framework family, and they have not introduced a concept of workload. For example, you wanna, you still want to target the native map os um uh project, or you know, binding libraries. You just have to install that workload.

B

Then, if you want to you know, um use map catalyst which is again the bridging between map and ipad. You can also do that or if you want to use maui, which is the ui cross-platform ui framework, then you can just add that as a workload as well so to keep it simpler. So xamarin.map has now evolved as microsoft, mac os as a workload then xamarin.mac ios, which is a combination of you, know some of the map and ios libraries plus mac catalysts they're.

B

Now all bundled in as microsoft map, catalyst and xamarin forms plus uwp, which is the universal windows framework platform, is now merging towards what is called maui all right. So um to give you a quick demo of um.net six mac idol is in maui I'd like to show you some of this very experimental um demos here right. So all of this might crash without further notice. So please bear with me all right, cbd.net, six. Okay, let me just put that here.

B

So let me start first with hello, necklace.

B

All right so with this with the hello, my os here um what's different this time is that you know it still uses the same app delegate, uh main class and whatnot. But if you look at the cs, proj you're now targeting the framework.net 6.0 dash mac os and the runtime identifiers osx 64..

B

So um what I want to show you here is that it's a simple.

B

App that's kind of like crazy at the same time, so the command right now is to do to run. This project is to do a dot net, build the cs approach with the dash d on call and run and the type target framework which is dotnet 6.0 dash mac os.

B

So if I do that, it's going to bundle this as a mac os project, but.

B

By the way, while this is loading, this is not yet available on visual studio for mac and jetbrains writer, so um if you're doing dotnet six um in particular targeting mac os, there's no debugger support yet so it's all kind of like a preview. At this point.

B

So there you go. What just happened here is that a dot net six project right targeting mac os. I was able to call the native pop-up of you, know, mac os uh library, but come look here. Okay, so if I go to um the app delegate, what I did is that I actually created a host builder, so I created a host builder, a worker service, running inside um a mac, os native app and that worker that cs is inside.

B

You know it's a running worker service inside math, os native and calling a native um core wlan namespace, or you know a library and do an ns alert which the pop-up that you just showed that you just saw so funny right. I mean crazy, but it's so um exciting to see that you know back then. This is not yet supported on mac os but yeah. The microsoft extensions hosting it's now um possible to run on mac os on a mac os native project, so very, very exciting.

B

So just imagine all those um libraries all those projects that you were running exclusively for windows or for web apps. Eventually they some of them will be shared and can be used for mac, os or even ios or android. So that's the power of that one.net family.

B

All right so moving on to the next demo, all right now, I want to show the map catalyst, all right, so what's different in map catalyst. Is that again? um It's you know. um Instead of that, not the dot, the target framework now becomes dot net six zero, uh targeting my catalyst, okay and the identifier is different, because this app can also run on ipad, not just on mac os, so to run that very similar.

B

B

Oh, it's: okay,.

B

Okay, oh bill, hello, math, catalyst. There you go targeting. That's 6-0, not catalyst.

B

Okay, just be patient still.

B

Compiling all right there we go it's loading so yep there you go a.net app that can run on ipad, os so and mac os using mac catalyst. So very simple as that one. So if you're already targeting a a mac os app, maybe for example, you're creating um ui specific ones, then you can use this mac catalyst project for that one all right. So last demo is maui.

B

Okay, so maui, just like what I said earlier is um similar to xamarin forms right, so it got it has its xml files. You know a main page, xaml and whatnot. Okay.

B

Let me just make sure.

B

Not that one okay so same okay, I'm still in catalyst projects. Let me go to hello maui all right. So let me do a dotnet build hello.

B

And still targeting net6, not catalyst.

B

B

All right, but then I'm using xaml to actually render the ui of it similar to xamarin forms, so the um hello maui cs proj file. If you look at it, this is where you can kind of like set some target frameworks um and like target runtime identifiers such as uh map catalysts and simulators and stuff like that.

B

So you see, you still have the mac add to this project over there under the hood.

B

But what it means is that if you have an existing xamarin forms, app right so moving to maui eventually allows you to target map catalyst as well. um You know um having a more unified ui approach, then eventually will also work for windows. Uw-B app such as you know not just the windows, 10 windows, 11, even xbox, and- um and uh you know um the surface.

B

And there you go it's a um a maui app um all in xaml, right and um running on mac, os catalyst and mac os and mac catalyst. So this exact um imagine you have your xaml app on xamarin forms move to maui. You can now use that same code base to make it work on not just on mac os, but on ipad os as well.

B

Alright, so I hope you had fun with all those demos very exciting stuff, so watch you know carefully. I mean watch out for all of those announcements with dotnet 6 maui, it's very exciting time, so yeah so for resources. I made this uh repository open source. It's in my github, just look for mjt by knock.net samples and look at um my catalyst on apple you'll, see a lot of those resources available and obviously.net blog and that.net maui samples and at the same time, mono project.

B

So thanks for watching- and if you want to contact me here- are my details, I'm available on email or go to my website or twitter or linkedin.

A

Thank you all right all right. Thank you very much uh uh any uh for for for all of that, and it's really um yeah a big set of exciting uh features and developments, um um and it was it. It was surprising to me actually because I hadn't been following submarine uh as much um that that a big part, a big part of um the existing existing framework still based on the old mono.

B

A

Being being, uh I, I guess, just being developed forward and and upgraded through the years, even as dot net itself changed to net core. But of course we all know that that mono was the catalyst for them to exactly uh the world.network.

B

I don't know at the same time um in the future. You know like it. This will be like a funny thing, but this will become a reality wherein, for example, you have a wpf app targeting a windows desktop, let's say: windows, 7 or windows, xp event or now. A lot of those code base can now be used on maui and imagine that running on an ipad, os or mac os.

A

A

Developer, 10 years ago, 11 years ago, uh uh um in the early days of of of the ire ford, and when I was looking at the code well, I I've always known that. Xamarin can uh still use the native stuff right, the ns and these things. But but once you you, you showed us the always stop and and and then oh and as label. And that reminds me so much of my objective, cds.

A

Nobody barely anybody, remembers those anymore.

B

And not to mention right um on the xamarin mac project right now you can also call native swift, binding libraries or let's say you created the library on swift or objective c. You can also call that to xamarin map and vice versa as well. You can create a a net library targeting um xamarin map. Just a you know, a portable library for your swift project. So it's all exactly coming.

A

Together, right yeah, um we do have one question from the uh for from the audiences from uh marcellus the pin um looks like maui has a transpiler to those targeted frameworks. How does it? How does it work under the hood? I guess that's what he was.

B

Right, okay, so um under the hood, it's very similar to xamarin forms, okay, so, um basically um right it's a mix of xamarin forms and the dot net. Six. um You know all those core clr magic happening under the hood, but then the same principle applies for in with your xamarin forms.

B

It converts itself into a native project and the way you you know like compile that native project is still the way on how you do it and to create that bundle. So what that means is that, for example, what I just showed earlier with maui for mac os. What happened is that from maui it became a you know.

B

It was all encapsulated by the xamarin, I'm sorry the catalyst project uh targeting the bind, the native binding libraries of you know, um of course, swift and whatnot, and then, under the hood, it's still xcode doing the work to create the you know, the dot app or actually compiling it. So that's what what's really happening there. So same principle applies for android ios whatev. Whatever is the native um um tool to compile it? That's how it works.

A

Yeah, so so, basically, you still need just like. If, if for android, you still need the the underlying android framework to to do the compilation here, you will still need xcode, exactly compilation to the ultimate, uh um exactly native binaries, all right yeah, which.

B

Is it's a very good thing in a way right, because.

A

B

Not a web application right, it's not a um you know it's it's you're, not loading it in a browser or something.

A

Or a wrapper right.

B

It's a native, you know, project.

A

Yeah yeah, although, although of course those the believers of web assembly and and um um electron type uh applications will always say that no we could do, we could do the same things and all of that, but yeah yeah. So so.

B

Yeah I mean you can display things right, but then the moment you want to interface to you know like libraries of um swift or you know, libraries of mac os, like interfacing with your networking, location or bluetooth. Then that means you have to create your own c library or whatever you want to do to actually implement those.

A

Yeah, um speaking of which um um do things like do things, I'm just not familiar with with xamarin development, I mean I haven't. I haven't touched mobile development for quite a while um um how about how about things like nuget packages um um uh or or or other shared libraries from from either side of the of the pod, whether it's from um net or from uh from mac, shared libraries or or or uh um I don't know, mac os, shared libraries.

A

If there are, if there are those that are available, can they be referenced at the same time, for example, in in in.

B

Project, um actually I mean the answer is: um may exist, there's already an existing way of doing it. So that's called the.net standard, so the net standard 2.1, basically means is that it works anywhere all net project yeah. It works anywhere right. So this.

A

Is, for example,.

B

Yeah, yes, that's for the nuget part. So, for example, uh you want to create a simple rejects. You know um I did you know red regex kind of um uh project or even facebook, or anything like that right. So it's all.

B

You know like um from the native.net libraries, no platform, specific libraries they're all going to work because you know they're all generic enough, but nothing specific for a platform. So that's already existing right. So same applies moving forward.net six, seven onwards.

A

It's still going to be the.

B

Net standard right.

A

That's still going to work in the same mechanism. Yes,.

B

In the future, what might happen is that you know they've introduced the concept of workloads where, in you have a base.net six right, then you choose or install a workload and target it, and that's you know the workload like, for example, in order for it to be a mac os app, you need to install the workload so that you, those uh mac os native libraries, becomes available to you.

A

Oh all right, so so so the concept of a workload is this something that that came from what maui or is it something that came from the map that that's that sex? It comes from.

B

A

So basically, um all of this will be available, on.net 6, but not on dotnet file.

B

That not yet so that's five technically still net core! That's why they're still.

A

That it's still not that.

B

A

Just they just got rid of the poor name, yeah yeah or all right, but but with dot net six is already in in in preview and then it's actually in the preview. So so yeah we're we're already starting to see things from from dot net maui and and we're getting all this um um exciting. um um Yeah.

B

A

B

Possibilities yeah exactly right, so think of it, you might um like the gold. You know the old cryptography libraries that you did back in 2003 2005. Imagine leveraging those targeting that net standard um or that net six onwards. Then what that means is that you can apply that same for ipad right, ios and uh yeah.

A

B

A

B

A lot of scumbags happening.

A

So so being able to be able to, you know, write apps for ipad pros, for example, yes, yeah, so imagine those.

B

Medical um funky, um you know.

A

B

Or even windows forms imagine that running on an ipad pro natively.

A

Yeah yeah, exactly windows forms on on ipad would be both. You know, uh amazing and a crime. I think no, no, no, no, um no disrespect to people doing windows forms right, but it would be fun. It would be amusing to do to see those there. um I guess I guess the next. The the the other thing that that I wanted to move to is that you know the development environment, so you use three different development environments in this demo.

A

You use visual structure for math, you use uh visual studio code and you use uh uh jetbrains uh just brings rider and- and I I say understand that you only use visual studio code because it was uh the only one that could run uh 0.96 at that at this time. Right, yeah and it's not yet um supported.

B

um Well, not really visual studio right any ide in a shell in particular. That's the only way to do it right now: yeah yeah, yeah.

A

Yeah, that's true all right, so so, given that, if I put uh um visual studio for mac and jet brains, writer fit them against each other, um yeah pros and cons. What's the, what do people need to know.

B

All right so I'll start with ryder. Okay, so big con, oh well, not really going, but you know it's not free right, so you have to pay for it. So, um but then that's what you pay for for jet prince writer is, you know, inbuilt resharper.

B

You know a lot of those code. Analysis tools like, for example. Let me just show you here more than jet. You can also do some code cleanup on a solution level. You know those all all those um you know um capabilities. You can do that using rider.

B

um You know reformat code, auto index, everything um yeah, so that thing is not available either on vs code nor visual studio for mac. At this.

A

B

Right: okay: these are all premium features that you kind of like um get used to, or you know like a premium that you pay as part of the resharper um conveniences around things right same thing, with a very if you're familiar if you're into unit testing. um You know it's a very mature test runner, I would say compared.

A

B

Visual studio for mac right so yeah.

A

B

Comparable to what you have on windows, so um that's the biggest pros on my end, that's why I like ryder, when I'm on on mac right, but then advantage of using um visual studio for mac, is that if you're, specifically targeting mac right or ios, then it's a much convenient. um uh You know much more integrated, it's much more integrated right, just like what I showed earlier with you know, with the uh storyboard file.

A

B

Exactly right, it goes straight to um it opens it: fires up xcode, yeah, so.

A

That whole thing.

B

It's much more integrated on visual studio format. So um yes, and at the same time, visual studio format the community it's for free, so compared to jetbrains rider so, which is a big pro of it.

A

Yeah I've got an interesting. I've got an interesting comment comment here for jeremy. Thank you for for saying that personally.

B

A

Moving between writer vs map and this code- and I use them interchangeably on a lot of things, so yeah.

B

A

Yeah, I guess if, if um you really want to be efficient in your in in your workflow, there's that option exactly.

B

Yeah so yeah, it's really. You know at the end of the day, it's preference right. um If you mean other people, you know, maybe you don't want visual studio at all. Maybe you just want to use bim or you know, yeah yeah, yeah, exactly email.

A

Yeah, I do command line all the time yeah, that is, that would be yeah. That would be a preference between people. I, I guess yeah all right, probably.

B

Moving forward, I think you know the the vs code um would have more traction on this environment in the future, mainly because there are tons of extensions and teams right now there are some explode nail community numbers code, so yeah think of that something you can also leverage. Now, if you want to create ios or mac os apps.

A

True enough, throw it out right now, um but one thing one thing that really got me curious about this: this whole issue is: why is it isn't there any active development happening on this vs visual studio map? It looks like the last time I touched. Visual studio for a map was what 2015, maybe or 2016., and it.

B

A

It does it didn't change or, or there wasn't much development on it. Always I'm like. I want to laugh at microsoft door and guys. This id is still.

B

I mean for one um I mean since the last time you saw it or the last time you actually touched. It was the um the hot reload that was um kind of like you know, not really super new right, but that's kind of like a major feature that was added on ps4 mac, so um yeah other than that. um You know it also supports extensions from community.

B

um You know. uh Probably another thing is that if you're targeting mac os and ios this whole integration with apple developer, account is also very useful. So you know with the signing and bundling and whatnot. This is very.

A

Useful yeah, I think jeremy, should already jump with us in this. In this column he says that there's actually a lot of active development on venus for a map and yeah um yeah vs 2022 for for uh preview format is nice and I guess it's available for everyone who who hasn't all right uh yeah. Thank you for this for those comments, uh jeremy, all right, um yeah, um unless there are any other questions from our for our audience.

A

um If you have anything that that's something wrong on your mind, please type them in quickly in the live streams, whether or not whether you're out in uh facebook or in youtube um yeah, but but um otherwise, um any anything that you any last words for us.

A

Not last words, the parting words.

B

All right, okay, so I think um my parting words right so again, it's a very good time to be a dot-net developer. um Xamarin's, not bad. So I know there's been a lot of you know: promotion around the advice.

A

B

Other cross-platform frameworks, splatter, react native thinking.

A

It's there's exactly.

B

No, it's not it's actively maintained or a lot of you know if you're looking at um you know bindings between the native one, like um you know, previous and whatnot sarmin is very active and I would assume the same would happen with maui moving forward. So it's a very interesting time um to still use your c-sharp skills, net skills, yeah, yeah and.

A

You know you want.

B

Yeah yeah, it's very it's really interesting parting word. I think the real um the real vision of um code, one runs everywhere. It's now becoming true with dotnet. Instead.

A

Where uh code wants to bug everywhere, you burn them all right, let's not say any bad things about our friends over here yeah, but but yes in interesting times. Blazer, for example, is this laser yeah. It is also holding great potential and I'm seeing uh uh dotnet is.

B

Really interesting and at the same time, I think there are also a lot of opportunities right.

A

B

These are all new fresh think of it like creating more components. You know creating a lot of those different frameworks. Libraries projects yeah a lot of opportunities. There.

A

Right all right, yes, definitely a lot of exciting things in the dot network right, uh so I guess we're kinda out of time. So thank you very much, uh uh mr michael john pena, um thank you for for for being here for.

B

A

Me yeah yeah, no, no, worries um we should we wish you all the best and and yeah thank you for for for being with us. Thank you. Thank you all right. So that ends our uh philippine users online dev sessions for for um july. um Thank you very much for everybody in manila. I hope you stay safe.

A

The rain is still going and the thunderstorm sun are still raging so so keep safe, keep right. Everyone keep warm and, and- and I hope to see you again in our next live stream and yeah. Thank you to everyone who has watched and supported us um yeah thanks jeremy. Thank you for for all those very nice comments and thank you to to all our livestream viewers who had been around. We we've seen uh viewers from as far as saudi arabia, africa, turkey, um various other countries. um We really appreciate happy having you with us.

A

So with that uh uh we yeah, we have to say goodbye, ramming maraming in the hat, I'm gonna be I'm john lennon, and this is the philippine.net users group. Thank you good night.