DXdao DXdao Weekly Meeting, 4 Nov 2022

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From YouTube: DXproductstrategy Call [2022-11-04]

Description

00:03 Welcome
00:50 Parallax/DXgov Work Proposal
07:55 Nimi Discussion
01:01:07 Restructuring and Refocus | Phase 2

A

Invisible hello, everyone welcome to the Friday 4th of November public strategy, call the first of all without Nathan, leading it for a long time. Unfortunately, um yeah we'll probably rotate around people leading this call uh for today, I can lead it. Let's put together a simple agenda um looking through the Paradox dates, gov worker proposal. Briefly uh just to draw attention to it, then I think the main topic will be nimi.

A

There are some requests to talk about that in the Forum, uh and then we can talk about restructuring in phase two uh Kian isn't here. So maybe that will be a brief discussion, uh but I think there's also a proposal slated to go up today on that um so yeah, just jumping right in there was a proposal I posted uh yesterday on Paltalk, uh which was going over a proposal for some work to be done on dxgov uh by an external Dev team um called Parallax.

A

They were referred to as by orbis, which is the platform we're building on uh for the Social and off-chain uh governance aspect of Devi. So it's a pretty important parts of Devi in something that's very important. We have larger plans for it, but this is the idea to get a social MVP just out there as soon as possible, as we start onboarding and using Debbie internally um so yeah. This was the reason I was trying to draw attention to.

A

It is obviously there was uh there's been a bit of discussion recently around contractors, and this is technically using contractors for something, but it's a very small, uh very small budget wise and it's sculpted, just a single feature. So I just wanted to get some uh some consensus, social consensus on it before I say in the documents for them to start working on it. I don't know. If anyone had any thoughts, it seems to have had good reception up until now,.

B

C

I think it closes before it turns down. um No um yeah I mean it seems kind of good and, like the price, seems good, uh just question on like where paralix is that how you say it.

D

C

They, uh how do we find them like? What's the connection through them.

A

Yeah so I think I've been pronouncing. It Parallax, like the visual effect Parallax.

A

um It was after a meeting with Orvis Club in uh in Bogota I mentioned the uh probably will come a couple of updates after we launched deviant public beta. uh Just because there's a lot of stuff to do um I, don't know. What's important, is also about time sync for us to build all the components in the UI required for the discussions to appear both in discussions and under proposals.

A

um The Harvest I wrote briefly in the Forum post, though it's a an SDK, that's built on top of ceramic.

A

It does a lot of indexing for us and it's super powerful and awesome the team's great as well, um and so then they referred us to Parallax, which has already done a couple of Integrations uh I can see if I can find the links to them and put them in the Forum as well, but they've done some Integrations for I think mostly nft projects that had chat features in their uis, and so they have experience doing this before. It's also not really Reinventing anything.

A

It's very simple, just a discussion where you can have threads and reactions um nothing new there and the question: that's 1 500, for it.

E

Do you in your in your guest? Do you think this yeah fully replaces discourse, so everything that happens in discourse currently can would be able to be done in orbis in that in Davi.

A

uh With the work being done here, it's just an MVP, so not yeah, not for one thousand five hundred dollars, but we have plans to replace everything so like we, one of the coolest parts that we can do with uh with artists is polling, but we can actually configure it to use the same. uh Like token Wicked uh voting powers that you would actually have in real governance, so we could replicate uh like rep or txt or something in those polls.

A

So when you're voting, you actually see the actual percentage you're you're voting with, which would essentially be snapshots.

A

uh But inside of Debbie and inside of the discussions part of Devi, the MVP will just do discussions so you'll be able to create a discussion like a forum post and then be able to create a uh like, have comments underneath that have threads like replying the comments, uh gift, support, uh I, don't know, I, guess, potentially uh we're just going to be rendering stuff uh it will have emojis, and then we're also just going to replicate that component under proposals as well. So when you create proposal, you also have comments. uh It's the same.

A

E

So if the MVP has all that.

A

E

Sounds like it could replace discourse because an MVP just to like put it in there for 1500 bucks, but it's like. If it doesn't replace discourse, then it's then it's not yeah. That's not gonna fill the need. So what is it going to cost to like get it all in Davi and replace discourse? And if we're betting on orbis?

E

um How? When with when, is that when it would be to the state where you can actually use that instead of discourse, because then that's when it becomes more valuable, I guess.

A

Yeah I would say, I would say like it covers most of the core parts of discourse. The one part, that's probably missing is the uh pooling which actually we tend to use quite a lot, um and that will come. It will come later, um but yeah we haven't I. The document, I wrote to them. I listed out all these features and make a video good work. I think we'll use them in the future.

A

um The logic behind the pricing on this is that, essentially it's going to take uh it's going to be a lot more expensive for our devs to do this than it will for them to do it. It's not complex work like we don't really need to utilize our devs, which have like a very core understanding of the contracts. The governance like how the how the application works is just developing a small part of that. It's not really integrated with the rest.

A

uh So no I don't know how much they'll charge for the whole product I'd. Imagine we can talk with them later and see how efficient it would be for them to continue working on on the advanced features that we have planned, but not uh fully spiked out yet.

A

I think we already had a recording, but now we have to.

B

Yeah, that's weird.

A

uh Cool any other questions or comments on the I, don't know if it was all for uh for using Parallax to develop this uh discussions component for our social entity.

A

D

Take that as a.

A

No and we can move on to the next- uh the next topic, which is probably going to be the one that takes up most of the time I'd. Imagine uh so there's some.

A

There are some requests for uh anime discussion, some discussion in the Forum starting from zets worker proposal, and then it got moved to the Mimi incubation uh discussion thread on dial, talk uh and so I guess. Maybe the nimi guys can take it away. I think the idea was to give like an update and have a room for questions both from the mini uh from Mimi's perspective, as well as the extras perspective.

F

Oh, we unmute at the same time that was kind of romantic. Well, I, don't know: do you want to start that? Maybe, given that it like started on your thread, I guess maybe some background for people who don't know.

G

I think you're better at freestyling, so we can do it.

G

Okay, so you muted all right I'll do this yeah, but um so, let's, let's maybe talk a little bit about um about the.

G

Why I think we we're actually made two choices for for dexta, but it doesn't mean that because I was forced to take any of these, but Mimi basically was discussed a lot and I think there was a lot of discussions that that just wasted a lot of time, in my opinion at least it took way too much time for for League now to just uh come to consensus on what is nimi for dexta right and for us internally. Just having all of this discussion, I think it was a little bit unhealthy.

G

um It was different, different opinions and so I guess we. We tried to make away a path forward where, hopefully everyone would be happy, and so we post an incubation route, which would basically mean that each style gets a fair share of of nimi and nimi gets to use the resources to be able to make nimi successful, and that was the main idea. I remember the talks back then was like what does it mean and no one really knew what they meant. I remember.

G

We, we discussed this at least in calls, and not so much in in the Forum I. Think, that's why maybe some dxt holders are a bit confused on what they say. What does it mean or what is an incubation? And we don't have this in the exact writing and what I mean, because we don't know I I said, at least from my point of view, what the expectations was and the expectation from my side was any any startup.

G

Any project could come to digital or with the yeah, with gold, similar to what the style wants to push and ask geek style and the resources that dexta holds to to make this idea success. So uh I at least believe that Dick's house is, is good at building projects. Maybe it's not like overall good at building projects, but um I think we learned a lot and there's some resources. The Excel could help to make to make Mimi successful product um I said already in the beginning. Maybe uh what what name would be interested in?

G

Is is having like development, help resources from DX voice to help help out moderate and set up the Discord, the contacts the extile holds, pulling threads from from the yeah from people's contacts and and obviously having people work on nimi uh for a time period of of six months. That's what we decided uh so yeah! It was a little bit unclear what it what what this meant there were no like numbers set on on what the limits were, and we yeah decided to to yeah just explore how how this would work and.

D

Here we are today.

G

Three months later,.

G

Anything I missed.

G

So maybe the south side of things, how how things uh yeah? How does incubation looked like from the beginning.

E

uh I can add, I, guess color from my perspective, when we yeah I guess well, once the nimi idea was made at a hackathon for many months. It was kind of in this limbo and no one knew what to do with it, even though it had traction, and it would have been better if dick style could could have or dextdo and Dick style, community and contributors could have moved faster, probably, but it took a while and and then yeah to help move it forward. The the because the the team that made nimi was came from.

E

It were contributors to DXL at a hackathon.

E

We're trying to think of a way that that these people, which is a good opportunity, could who work could dedicate times toward advancing nimi, because nimi could have just gone and raised money on its own and the team left and it could start its own product, but the team I don't think wanted to do that, like the idea was to advance it further along and so DX style could just um like give it some money and then those people could leave and and do something but those people.

E

My understanding was, the team, didn't want to well had a lot of responsibilities in DXL and also didn't want to just fully leave the extau and not raise money at that immediate time, and so the question is: how could nimi get further along? That would benefit?

E

Nimi would benefit DX Dao would work with, with the would work for the the team members um which were being determined who yeah, who was that team, and so we came up with yeah I guess, with Dave mainly came up with this idea of an incubation Grant which DX style had never done.

E

um It's only done Grant investments into external projects and and teams building stuff it had never um given a grant to uh an internal product. It has came up with new products like when Federico came up with. Carrot is like. Oh, that's, a good idea. Let's dedicate you know, resources towards it, DXL mainly dedicated Federico.

E

We probably should have dedicated more earlier on, um and so then the the other idea was like well, if nimi didn't want to build under DX Dow- and it was like- let's see if it was even possible- to build a product alongside or outside of DXL- and maybe it could, you know, do things faster become, maybe be more decentralized, rather than decentralized, sacrificed on a handful of things that would help it get more users faster, like the idea. I think we talked about.

E

Dave was like get to a million users like how how can nimi get to a million users, which makes it really interesting at that point, um which is like, obviously, the web three space plus more, and so the idea of the incubation Grant was to get it money so that it could actually go higher people that could help it. Whether those are designers front, end back end whatever, but then it's obviously still being managed by the team, but the team, if they didn't pay any attention to it. That would be a problem.

E

So the team would also want to dedicate a bunch of their time um their their work week. Plus they're, outside their work week towards nimi, so part of the incubation Grant was that the extile would continue to pay contributors and they could um yeah take a portion of their time and and use it towards nimi and obviously they've been spending a bunch of extra time as well on nimi like in in Bogota.

E

A lot of the you know, side, time and stuff was built on doing things for nimi to get it out there in front of people um and so just as a and and then in addition to that, like DX Dao, different people at Jake style, different um resources could also help nimi, um where it made sense um and so I think Mimi's progressed a bunch since this whole thing started, but it's not clear um how how much it's progressed and what it's like necessarily plans are because it's operating outside of DXL, it's not normally like updates, aren't going to like we don't do too many nimi updates and stuff.

E

We do some Dev updates on the dev call, but there's not a lot of like outside of that and so yeah, so DX Styles, never like, doesn't run an incubator. So this incubation Grant is like working at the very basic level of people, are spending time on nimi, furthering it along and are getting paid by DX Tau to do that, and if nimi succeeds, that would you know that brings success to to DxD DXL and DxD holders as well.

E

um The part that probably has been missing is things that nimi needs to grow faster and bigger, and better like representation in the space or marketing or the community or potentially like design help and stuff, like hasn't been directly probably given from DX Dao I. Think better communication between DX Dao and nimi nimi's needs would help that um yeah.

E

Like I've, been you know, day's been oh, like I'm gonna be presenting on a social five panel tonight, I'm and I'm I've been wanting to represent nimi, as as part of that and so I'm trying to get up to speed on what the Future Vision and things of nimi are so that I can position it like for success in this social fi panel, which is a very new in vertical in the space.

E

um But that's like that's my perspective on the relationship between nimi and Diego style. um Obviously, more can be done, but where people are spending their time and and how that's going to change over time also needs to be I. Guess the the probably the goal was to get nimi far enough along in the six-month incubation period, that nimi could go off and have massive success and has hundreds of thousands of users and then um would like eventually, you know, spin off and probably raise money as its own product I.

E

Think, um but that's I, guess that depended on where it is at that State and time yeah. That's my summary.

C

Yeah um and I guess, like my perspective, to start with um maybe a little bit different from others, I I think things are going pretty well.

C

um I think this whole experiment is like kind of working out in a in a good way, both where I think Mimi's in a good position is like kind of grown uh the last couple of months, but at the same time like it is, maybe uh it has kind of the space to think a little bit bigger because um it is still really Under. The Umbrella of DX Dao in terms of some support there um and I.

C

Think Geeks now is benefited because it still has a lot of the nimi team that is helping out on the other products rather than having an Emi team kind of working on its own um and not um and kind of leaving the EXT out scrambling to have to find other other people to fill in that Gap.

C

um So I I think we're figuring out how it works and there's a whole lot to learn and I. Think yeah there's a lot of things that maybe have not gone perfectly but I think, broadly speaking, um maybe important to say that this is like I, think kind of going um well.

C

um I did Google the word incubate to get a definition, because I always think that's um helpful.

C

um This is the one it gave it says of a bird sit on eggs in order to keep them warm and bring them to hatching um and then like, especially in the laboratory, to keep eggs cells bacteria at a suitable temperature so that they develop um so yeah I. Think there's, maybe something about the environment that one side is providing.

C

Geek style is providing and then the other one is kind of doing some growing until they're, like quote hatching um and so I, think that's that's kind of what is I think you still think a good metaphor for how um this works um in terms of what D style provides for incubation. um I. Think the first thing it provides for incubation is money and compensation and the.

D

C

Or to to kind of breathe and function there, and so I think the um way that the but yeah I guess both the 100K Grandpa then also paying for at 40 of the time. um Those are really I, think the core part of the incubation and providing that core compensation. um Then I think there are.

C

You know you look at other incubation programs like what are they kind of offering you they're, offering you advice, advice, mentorship connections um and, like maybe even kind of further down the line more more like uh uh more things that maybe require more resources like kind of sky was saying in terms of design, help and doing that, and so maybe there are some specifics.

C

We can think about what um Deek style could do more in terms in terms of advice, mentorship or all of those things, but I think, because the nimi team is already integrated into DX Dow that a lot of the like product feedback or you know strategic guidance that um maybe an external incubation program would provide, like all that was kind of happening.

C

um Naturally. But I think it would make sense to maybe try to have some more specific things going forward uh that we can have there um and.

H

Then yeah I, just I.

C

Kind of like Ross questions Ross wants to ask them there, but uh that's kind of what um I was thinking as I said, I. Think, broadly speaking, like I think things are kind of going well, even if it is a little uncertain on how it should function.

A

uh Yeah I can just uh I guess: ask my questions that I wrote in the chat. um These are just like things. I feel like have been boiling up in the Forum and I've had a couple questions about myself, which is like it's probably a good time to be having this discussion, because we're three months through roughly I think um but like what nimi team's expectations are for after the six months and then the next one is just kind of about what we've been talking about. Of.

A

What does incubation mean um I think the proposal was uh pretty vague, the initial one, maybe not a bad thing, but like especially around pay and I guess what the needy guys expectations are for, like expanding the nimi team, while still using like does the if a new member joins the nimi team from DXL or even externally, does that um does the 6040 split still still apply to that and I think maybe clearing that up Frenemy as well as just future. uh Any future potential incubations would make a lot of sense.

F

Yeah I mean we we've already had external people contribute to the extile, which have like obviously not been remunerated by the extile at all. So um I think that part is pretty clear.

F

um On the other hand, I don't know, I mean I. Think it's something for DXL to decide. You know I know Sky also.

H

Recording has stopped Jesus.

F

um I know sky for a long time has also been a proponent of like people one day a week, working on something they want to.

F

You know like uh I, don't know if we could like use some time of Dirk or venky, or whoever else you know is interesting, contributing I'm sure that would help us a lot, but then again, of course, I think it's like yeah making a decision of how something like that would work right, which, of course, we can't make on our own and of course, for us it would be great, but you know I think it's like something um that does need to be discussed or agreed upon and in terms of the proposals on your first question, I think it's pretty clear that, like the DX dial support kind of stops after six months right so like there would not be any um um yeah contribution to, like you know, part of the salary being paid Etc, and you know I think the goal for nimi, of course, is uh if it wants to be successful, is to like go and work full time on it.

F

You know I think that's like in general. If you are want to run a you know, successful startup, uh you know, I think it's like build up period works well for both sides. Of course, like I know, all the nimi contributors are also busy working on other stuff at dxdel, so not just dropping that overnight and allowing me to be built up like gradually I think makes sense and um foreign.

F

Sorry about that um and yeah that was I. Think the end to my question. Sorry, my mom just distracted me.

E

Has nibi has nimi tried or been able to um attract outside contributors with using his Capital like if it needs front-end design instead of Dirk like? Is it hard to find Outside designers or is it? Is it? Has it spent money on hiring outside help or not.

F

I mean we've had contributors so far, but they've actually not been compensated. They've just been working on me kind of like in startup mode, and we have been exploring for Branding yeah, going to like an external firm Etc um we are anemia, has actually not spent any money outside of like it infrastructure and like upkeep, um which is something we could probably improve upon, but like I think we also want to keep the team relatively small like I. Think like nimi, is a very simple concept.

F

uh You know I think like Instagram sold for a couple of billion with like eight employees or something like that. I think, like we kind of want to keep for sure, like the in the team relatively intimate. So it's not like you know. If we had the capital available to hire like 10, Engineers I, don't know if we would need them. You know so, like I, think it's more like specific areas. We lack a bit of um support in right now and I think like we're, trying to bridge those strategically yeah.

E

H

E

As an example, I know the community or there's like groups of community um managers and stuff out there like and I I, think the Discord needs help and like if yeah Keenan's been busy like DX or nimi.

E

Dxl can do this too, like pay someone, you know 500 a month to like build up and manage and run the Discord if, if it desires that but like I agree, hiring 10, devs or something is different, but it has only a certain amount of money, but using that money um for part-time help or design one-off help and stuff like it should it should try to do that. I mean if that's not if it's not possible to find people, that's another story, but it has money.

E

It should spend that money to like move it as fast as possible. Right.

F

Yeah, absolutely, and that's also why we you know like uh we are talking to like some design firms to kind of cover, all of that aspect and stuff, and we had some Community mods to volunteer and stuff and like uh we like. We have had people here, but.

E

Yeah is it hard? Is it hard like? Are you finding that, like only you know, you guys only have like a portion of your time to dedicate tornemi? Is it hard to get stuff done and build and do everything you want when you're only doing it yeah as a part part of your of your week, kind of thing.

F

Yeah I mean I think it's definitely challenging, especially if you consider like maybe like uh of the people working at nimi. Not everyone worked from nimi. At the same time, you know they have like different commitments at DX style, so maybe you're working on nimi on different days Etc. So like communication and coordination, I think definitely suffers from that. You know like because it's not like you can text someone and just be expecting them to be working on a certain thing on that given day and time uh so I think you know.

F

There's definitely some downside to that in in that aspect, um but yeah, that's that's.

G

Maybe I could chime in a little bit um so I I think obviously, uh like this incubation agreement, we did so we could start working on on Mimi I at least felt a little bit blocked to keep on working on me because I I, work, 100 on swapper, right and swapper has a lot of work to do and I was already yeah I I at least felt already at that time. I had too much work I.

G

Couldn't we tried to like work on the weekends and the evenings, but, to be honest, I was already doing that for for Geek style, so um um to make it possible for nimi to move forward without hurting the egg Style the incubation model, I I, guess we're we're the best best way to do it.

G

uh There were some some people telling me to quit the Excel entirely and just work on Mimi and I said: that's not the solution, if you care about League style right, because that will leave digital with with no product owner no designer for for swapper and and the other, the other things I was helping out with at that time. So so, when the proposal name a proposal, uh the incubation got through I remember immediately after a lot of drama happened and that drama took up a lot of time from everyone, including including nimi, nimi Squad.

G

Whatever you want to call it, uh and the immediate thing that happened was everyone was at least from what I felt people that was interested in helping Anthony didn't ask to help out on me anymore.

G

I, don't know why, but just it was a little bit of who stays at geek style right, because that proposal actually said one third of everyone, I guess I think star would be fired or whatever, and there was a lot of discussions and- and everyone wanted to be good for League Star right so uh showing that you, you want to work some on something else, then dick style at that time was not very popular.

G

uh So so I guess that was a very, very bad timing for for nimi to be incubating, because eighty percent of all the energy people put it put in at that time was was to solve all the all the drama um and and as as a product owner of swapper. We we weren't planning on. We were planning actually on on downscaling right, which we did. We. We fired five people from from our Squad, uh and this this actually makes swapper vulnerable to to not be able to succeed with this roadmap.

G

If people went on and worked on, nimi right, um so me as a squad owner, uh so it's got a product owner uh couldn't go ahead and say as anemi and Mimi co-founder say: Hey you and you I need help from you guys. Would you like to offer some help? Because you were you guys were interested uh I didn't do that?

G

I didn't push for that, because I knew if I did swapper would hurt, because we we we don't have any full-time developer and that's that's reality right now, um so I don't know how what to say like I think the timing was very, very, very, very bad and then also, let's not forget, we we almost almost a whole month. At least most of us were in Colombia and we're part of this uh Retreat and and the conference and I think we we almost lost the whole month. uh uh Yeah being there I mean it was.

G

It was good for nimi I'm, just saying from the incubation perspective, I, don't think anyone had time to to work on anything else and then being present at at the conference and the task they had at dextao and so yeah I would say the three months that passed from the incubation point of view. I would say it's it's. A failure uh from name is perspective. I'm! Not talking about the incubation. Just like how it's gone from Nimitz. It's gone good, you're right Chris, it is good, but it is not because of the incubation.

G

uh Of course me Dave, Adam and Milan all are able to work on.

G

Because of the incubation, but there were other options and incubation is- is not the like to yeah. We could have worked like 100 on eBay right, which would make uh nimi even gone further than it is so I would say from from the incubation perspective. I would say: three months have passed, I wouldn't recommend any other squat team or or any other product to to to be incubated in this way, and maybe yeah.

G

It is unfair, because this is a very, very bad timing and we went through all of this stuff and reconstructuring and refocusing and I don't think yeah. That's a a good, healthy ecosystem for for anyone to incubate.

G

uh You asking Chris asking what what's stopping you from going on.

C

That's it, it would be better if you would like you could have done 100 for.

G

C

G

I care too much about stick style. That's why.

C

G

I guess you're saying it.

C

Didn't work out for DXL because of this and so like, if you think it's better to go to 100 I.

G

Didn't say it I would say: From nimish perspective like just think about nemesan product of its own, uh having 100 attention, From, Me, Adam, Dave and bilon would be better from the product perspective. Yes, boutique.

H

C

I think yeah, if you think that and you and like that's best for nimi like teached out, you know, has 10 of Mimi's, so I Think Geek style is very much incentivized to do what's best for gaming.

G

But, but so you see what she's saying is if, if I left that day three months ago, it would have hurt, in my opinion at least it would have hurt the extao right.

G

C

Yeah I agree: I.

B

Also, don't think it would have.

C

Helped Mimi, though I guess it's like my point: um I don't feel like MiMi had the money to do that you'd be spending through like monies I, guess, I'm kind of challenging the this hasn't worked out. Narrative.

G

Can you repeat that and start that part.

C

um Well, like I guess, I, don't think Mimi would be better off if you went 100 of your time, because I think that that wouldn't have been able to have been possible in terms of like I, don't know starting everything like right at once um so yeah I again I I, take it where I think this has worked for teachdao and for nimi I know, there's lots of like kind of chaotic things in there, but I guess: I'm, not yeah I'm, not really understanding why it hasn't worked out for nimi.

G

So Allah, maybe I'll, try to rephrase what I I'm saying here from from name is perspective: ignore our loyalty to dig style swapper, whatever we have. If, if all of us we're 100 on Mimi and dexta, was not involved, no money, no resources from DXL I think nimi would have been further. That's what I'm saying if, if you do disagree, I would maybe.

C

Yeah I mean I, think you would need a cowboy I think you need Capital to be where you are. What.

G

Did we use, which kind of cup, what do we use with the capital? We.

C

Haven't touched, something where nimi is right now is nimi, has a hundred thousand dollars in the bank and is like has a standing right and that's a pretty good position to be in? You would not be in the financial position. You are now without deep Styles initial upfront payment and then also paying you like every month and also paying for you guys to go to nimi, where that was a really great brand. Building exercise like I, think there's a lot of value to the investment that Mimi has benefited from.

G

Okay, just I'm trying to understand so he's saying, because we have the money in our Treasury. We were able to do all of that. We did like without using them on just having it in a treasury. There's.

C

Two different ways: one: you literally have more money in your treasury right now, some like a valuation Book value perspective like you, are more valuable and then two you've also been getting paid by DX Dao over the last three months, which has enabled you to also like not draw down from other financial means that you have um and then three it like Geeks out paid for you to go to like Colombian, also provided like a platform for that bears. They're like again I just think. It's sad to say that you haven't benefited.

G

From Chris Chris I never said, I haven't benefited anything I said if I think from my perspective, if nimi went another Direction, it would have we have it gone further. This is why I've said I didn't say: dick style has given us no no benefits, but your your argument here about the money actually doesn't make much sense for, for my perspective at least we like to this is my fault, but I.

G

Just got paid like I literally just claimed my payment in in digital, just now, like I, haven't used any money from, but this is my fault like it's not Dexter.

G

The stock could have paid me in time if I just made my proposal uh but I'm just saying saying that that dicks now enabled us to do what we did in my opinion, at least that's that that that's not entirely correct but but yeah I'm not saying there's zero benefits just saying uh have had we chosen a different direction from all the things that was happening three months ago until now, I think we would have been further that that's when I I think maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they think something differently. That's just my opinion. Yeah.

E

Maybe it's rough to you. It makes sense that like, if you guys were working full-time on it, yeah nimi would be further. That's that's yeah! That's quite obvious. My your disappointment is in uh people at dixdale haven't also contributed like actual time or Dev resources, design resources, Community Resources to nimi during the last three months. But if those were actual needs you you didn't. No one really asked people to.

E

You said you said you didn't ask Dirk, you didn't ask Keenan, you didn't ask me, that's fine, but you also didn't take the hundred thousand dollars and hire anyone to do any of those things. What were the needs that you either need to hire for or ask people to help with like and so saying that you're like I agree. It's a little disappointing.

E

We haven't been able to help nimi more as DX Dao, even though we did in Bogota some but um like how come if you, if you need design help like use the hundred thousand dollars to hire people to do it right, how come how come Mimi hasn't spent any of the money.

G

So so I I think uh we're talking two different things here, um but but uh yeah everything you're saying here is yeah I I, see and hear you I'm just saying: If I, Could Turn Back Back Time, and knew that all of this drama that was happening happened and the time people put on in geek style at this time, like these three months hasn't been like been three normal months working at digital. If anyone wants to disagree on this, please feel free to do that.

G

I'll, just tell you my time, I've been working on solving drama, solving people's disagreements solving trying to find ways to to cut down on on on uh workers. I have been like in many many calls trying to make people not feel very like you, you guys don't think about the position of someone leading a squad needing to literally fire fire. Five people you work with.

G

It is very, very tough, I'm, just saying this egg, this this environment of having this is not very good for incubating a new team where people start to question how much money you spend here and there, and it's just too much too much drama people don't want to engage with new drama, so they don't ask to help on me. This is this. Is reality, if you guys don't like it, I.

E

Don't know what to tell you like: that's what happened in three months totally I agree that the last three months has been full of that type of stuff as well, which has taken productivity away from many many many people, but.

E

I guess it's the blaming the incubation things not working. It's just like a far stretch like the nimi hasn't gotten. The attention hasn't gotten external resources hasn't gotten internal resources. It hasn't moved as far as it could have if everyone quit DXL and didn't need me full-time agree with you, but that didn't happen and we've been through what we've been through so like. How do we make it successful going forward? I guess like.

G

H

G

It what happened again, I'm, not I'm, not blaming us for what's happening, I mean.

C

You think it's been what happened at all to the incubation discussion, though,.

G

100 100, it.

H

Is it's not unique to the incubation situation? I, don't I, don't know I'm just saying this is this is I mean I know it affected.

C

It's a huge issue and we talked about it. There's a lot of things going on and I guess like what is the drop of God I, don't know we had the restructuring one and so I think it's something we can talk about. Yes, is a drag on DXL all and that sucks, but like I, guess yeah bad timing, but I'm not sure if it is really like relevant to the incubation discussion at all.

G

I would say it is relevant because we we are saying that we are gonna, cut costs and we are firing people here and there, and we are literally saying that that we need to refocus and see what what the Excel should do next and meanwhile, we do that we put money in a in a team and we are paying them to work on something that is not a geek style product right.

G

This is some of the feedback that some dxt holders are saying right there till this day, there's questions on the Forum and and and they are legit and I understand them, I feel them, but I think all of this conversation is it's very connected to the drama we had for the past three months. If we didn't have a beer market, if we didn't have these uh we're focusing requests, reconstruction I think I think we would have a less of a like less questions about. Why are we doing this?

G

And, and why are we paying these guys money from the excel's treasury? Why are they getting dxt? This kind of questions are I think in my mind, very relevant to this yeah I.

C

Think the questions from the XD holders are, if you look at the proposal, it doesn't even say which specific contributors are going to get paid at the 40 and it doesn't actually say in The Proposal itself that the contributors will get paid for their time on Mimi. It leads that up to it, I remember the discussion and I. Remember we talked about this and I remember. It went to 10 precisely because we were talking about putting paying the extra 40.

C

But if you look at the actual proposal, it's not there and I think that's part of some of the confusion here.

G

So so I think just like. Obviously we know the facts today. If we, if I, knew the facts three months ago about us downsizing and and doing what we're doing now, I would say: incubation would be a bad time.

G

I'm, not saying the Excel can't incubate I'm, just saying it's a bad timing, and probably an incubation would be better fit like next year or something right when we know where we're going and and where people feel confident enough to to help an incubation by actually taking time taking time away from their real commitments, to put it in a non digital product right, so I think it's a just a bad timing. I'm not saying the Excel can't incubate, I 100, believe digital should push for more incubations. I think that's, that's!

G

Maybe a more interesting way than doing new projects from from scratch. But I'm just saying knowing the facts now going back three months, I would say: hey. Maybe it's a bad timing, because I was going through this and- and this is not. This is not the good environment to to incubate the incubate that that's that's. How I feel.

E

Maybe to yeah Scott was asking.

E

I guess, like expectations yeah for the next three months and then like what like planning for what happens at the end of that three months would be interesting.

G

G

Yeah I, don't wanna name names too, because there's people that want to help, but at the same time they're like I, don't know if I'm gonna push my proposal to help nimi. It is sad to hear it, but this is happening right. It would be nice to hear maybe from someone that wants to help me, but doesn't want to push a proposal to have him in it. What do they feel? Why can't they help me I? Think.

A

Just a thought is that maybe that's more related to The Proposal.

G

Ross can I just wait XXX, what's what's so funny, I mean we're trying to have a serious conversation, even you're laughing or what's the GIF about.

G

Oh I mean you can use your voice all right. Sorry, Ross.

A

um Yeah I think that's more to do with the bigness of The Proposal like it's not explicitly said that anyone can make a proposal that is contributing to anemia and get paid, and so that's probably where any confusion or doubt about actually going ahead and doing that is potentially coming from.

F

Yeah I mean uh yeah I guess the proposal says: nimi team can allocate 40 percent of time to nimi for up to six months, but that's like I guess that could be up to interpretation what that means. But um someone to speak. Okay.

I

uh Yeah I've been in contact with the new team since, since they've come and and really.

D

I

In what they're doing and I've been talking to most of the team, including Seth, and trying to see uh some of the value propositions that I could do for nimi to move it forward, I think it would be good for both anime and Dick style, so talking about uh how what to do for the next three months, I will at least submit one proposal to allocate some of my time to to nimi I.

I

Think that's a good way forward, because at the end of the day, I think it's a win-win situation, if both nimi and the exto uh or if, if nimi, succeeds, that's a win-win situation. So that's what I aim to do and uh yeah we'll we'll see. I'll put it on on Dow talk on Monday, uh hopefully, and then um we can continue the discussion there. I guess.

C

So I think it would be great to have more people contributing to nimi and using resources. um I think just to talk a little about the proposal on the cost.

C

I think someone set up above um the investment, and so um at the time on this discussion like I, think it was the five percent it was 100K and then it got it basically the 10- and we could do this additional six months and if you look at the four team members at 40 of their time, that's thirteen thousand two hundred dollars a month which over the six months, would be 79 000. um Two hundred so when I was like looking at this proposal and voting on this proposal, I was kind of thinking.

C

Okay, it's basically a hundred and eighty thousand dollars full for um ten percent of nimi. As part of this, like kind of incubation process, um I think it could make sense for that to potentially increase if it needed to be but I think if we are getting to like devoting other Squad members time, then that's just gonna like I think come out of I guess the question is like what budget is that? Gonna come out of in order to like allocate that time.

C

Thank you because.

H

I guess that would be kind of yeah I mean that's that's what I'm.

C

Saying um yeah and so Stu in the initial proposal, and again it says like four I: don't it actually doesn't say the 14 hours, but it says the nimi team um would um be able to do 40 and that's I think the four people and that would be 79 200 and so that's. My kind of question is like yeah. If Kenny is going to be doing, that, does that mean DX?

C

Dow is going to be paying more of that, and does that change the economics of the like Proposal with nimi or these douches willing to make that additional investment or commitment to pay those resources? Because it really really like thinks nemi is great and like the 10 wants to see the 10 of its state go up in value.

C

H

Think I mean that's.

D

C

Whether gxtao is gonna like be con, like funding that I mean I, think we're talking about. You know moving to like a budget approval, so the question is like I mean I think we already have a number for I guess what nimi's budget would be based on like the the original original proposal so like. Where would the budget for nimi come from.

G

Do it I have some some ideas here, but I guess Melanie. You wanted to say something go ahead.

D

I want to Echo what Chris is saying. I definitely think that we should allocate resources to me and especially if the Exile contributors want to give their time to Mimi and participate I think that's awesome. I think they should um but yeah I'm, also wondering like. Where does that come like what budget does that come from I was under I was under the impression that, like only the core contributors could allocate 40 of their time to meet me and get compensated from it.

D

um So I'm just curious as well. You know where would the budget for Kenny be coming out of, and even for, like for Milan I know he's contributing QA resources? Where does that budget come from.

G

I think, at least when we discussed this, we we talked about. We talked a little bit about this I'm sad I. Think we don't have this on like in the Forum or anything I think we talked about this in calls and I I asked what happens if someone wants to dedicate one day a week like how we do that uh with with the Dow pay for it, who pays for it?

G

The answer back then at least we're we're the doubt: pay pay this worker as as usual and that's part of the incubation.

G

If, if we're talking about like budgets and all of that, this, this talk is kind of new, at least from from back, then we didn't talk about Squad budgets, Right This, Is, A, New, Concept, that we we're implementing now.

C

I mean the squad budgets were put out in Dow talk in like June, so we definitely were doing this, and this is how we've calculated expenses for a year and a half where we allocate a certain amount of time, so I think there's always been a. We are going to track like and there's. Clearly a line like I think is. The point is like we want deep style resources to be used by Mimi right, that's part of like the incubation. It's just. The question is like: when does that line?

C

Come where they're like additional resources that like cost an investment like angle um and I'm, not sure like where that line is but I think there is a line there um and I think it's just yeah figuring out where that line would fit specifically and for me it would be if a worker is like devoting time or like putting in their worker proposal as a percentage right, they're out, they're looking for that to be paid by the excel in a budgetary way, not just like I'm gonna work on this in like and help out on.

C

You know kind of in my free time there and so like whenever it crosses that threshold. We just need to be aware of it.

G

Yeah I guess we could had had a like a incubation budget, I guess separately from from from anything else where, where we have like a max amount, I guess or Max Max budget of of what the Dow is willing to pay from from its workers, uh but yeah. This is I guess this is how we we learn about how to incubate, right and I. Think we kind of expected that things would would be not perfect, but.

G

All these questions we, we are all wondering the same thing. I guess that's. Why maybe some people don't don't want to maybe post their proposals because they don't know can I do it? How much is the max who's paying me? Will I get for this.

F

Yeah just do I know. There are a couple comments in the chat. um Scott yeah I mean the 100K has belly bin touch, I mean we also received the ground from ens. We have been using some of that just to mostly pay for infrastructure. uh We were looking to hire a couple of back-end Engineers, but like um we're not able to afford their salary at their expectation at a point in time, so it has gone, it has been, it is sitting in a treasury. Currently, yes, that is correct um and then spicy soup.

F

Okay about the dxt Park yeah, um I guess this is also due to the proposal, perhaps not being clear, I mean I I guess we could also be open to like re-clarifying it or like renegotiating the deal or whatever I. Don't know like um from I.

F

Think from my understanding, it did include the dxt I do see the argument of why perhaps it wouldn't actually uh I guess we were also approached back then by you know a group of people within the extile who wanted us to be able to work 100 on me, paid by the Dow and I actually personally raised the fact that probably like 100 dxt compensation would not be fair, given the upside of nimi uh but yeah I. Guess that's, like you know the I guess. The proposal is not so clear as we've identified in this call.

F

I don't know. If there's we could repass another proposal which clarifies all these details and uh kind of uh you know straightens out some of these doubts that are around overall.

E

um I think it might be important to clarify so the way dxdel contributor framework has been set up like I I'm, not sure you can call the DxD half of the actual payment like bonus, um like a lot of people, might consider that actual you know a a a badly allocated portion of the actual like normal payment.

E

So half of a normal payment, like the whole thing, should be in dollar Stables, but we're taking half of the dollar stables and we're turning into three-year vested locked up dxt in order to better align interests and um save Stables like pay fewer Stables from the Dow, but I, don't I, don't consider that those things are um bonuses for most people, I think that's pay! That's locked up like um for three years, which is slightly different.

E

Well, allocated yeah well.

D

F

I get I, guess, there's also another while we're talking about nimi, I, guess, there's also one concern that Mimi will never get its ens domain. uh Given the ability to jam proposals in perpetuity, but um yeah I don't know.

C

Just need Capital, Dave, just put more capital.

F

Yeah but then you have to buy a ton of gen and you know um you can lose a lot of money just by gen, dropping I guess but yeah.

A

Cool this is maybe a good point to end the conversation. We can pick it back up another time potentially, if there's a need for more clarification around the proposal or uh something like that, I'm sure we can find some time either in the Forum or in other calls throughout next week uh continue discussing um but yeah there was a. There was a plan to talk about the phase two uh proposal as well, which I think is potentially going up today.

A

uh Don't we don't have a bunch of time for I, don't have cameras to say anything briefly or if we can.

B

Yeah- hey guys, sorry still not feeling great, um but um one thing I'll highlight is: uh we've had an additional week here to discuss any kind of stipulations.

D

B

Phase two any changes: I guess final call to anyone that has any grievances with the current state of the discussions and any kind of off-chain consensus collection. um If there's anything that you'd think should be added or removed from this proposal. Personally, please share it: a public medium, of course, the form being one of the primary and best places to do that. I do plan on submitting a signal proposal for today.

B

um I guess that's PST time, so it may be tomorrow for some of you in Europe, but that is my plan for today, um yeah honestly, not much to add for it. We've had a lot of good discussions uh so far, um so I don't think you know anything beyond an attention. Call here makes sense.

A

Awesome, uh if no one else has anything to say, I think we can finish up there, we're just a bit faster uh pass the error. uh It was a good good conversation. It's nice to see everyone get involved. uh Yeah have a nice weekend. Everyone and we'll see you next week, thanks.

B