Ethereum Cat Herders ECH, 12 Feb 2019

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From YouTube: Ethereum Cat Herders Meeting #5 [2019/02/12]

Description

Agenda: https://github.com/ethereum-cat-herders/PM/issues/4
Audio starts around 18:00.

A

A

Anything with him.

B

C

C

Did you manage get that email off to Kevin.

B

Yeah yeah I, send it off to him, haven't gotten anything back yet Fenton yeah.

C

Yeah my buddy reckons he doesn't never.

D

B

C

Email is Tonya sunny.

B

C

At least that one's monitored by his assistant, yeah.

B

Yeah yeah I mean it felt really cool to actually get a response. They'll be honest.

C

It would be pretty cool if you did not know I.

B

Mean not something let it all 'man gun, zero email.

C

Mi Nam, brilliant yeah, yeah.

B

So that's just like an awesome feeling, like you know, open up your email in the morning and see an email from even done CR. You know yeah.

C

Absolutely right agreed.

E

C

C

Yes, Sonia Chen from Lindsay's try to send me an email but I haven't received it so I'm not sure. What's going on there.

C

I kind of know what she's thinking.

C

Hey Lane, hey guy buddy,.

B

Yeah I think one of the most convincing things I've seen so far. It's just how, like the mining proof, basic verbs seem to be handling the whole situation.

F

Hey guys, it's Murat Hey am.

C

I right oh yeah, buddy.

F

Welcome to write hey guys.

B

Hudson's hosting this one right, I.

C

C

Hey, hello, hey Hudson,.

G

Let's see, we got all the favorites here today we got or like crowd. Favorites we got William, we got Bret, we got Pooja, we got Murat, we got Charles, we got Hugo, we have Lane.

C

Herding cats, The.

G

Dirty Dozen, except there's eight of us right now.

G

hmm And we'll probably get started in a minute or two is what I'm thinking.

G

Okay, um I can start talking about the prog. How audit? Let me pull up the agenda. Cuz I, think that was the main thing and that's why this call is gonna, be kind of short yeah.

G

Cool so yeah. The first item, I guess, is update on the prog so that here's what's happening with that. There's gonna be a call later today, with a few stakeholders. Who've been involved in dealing with dealing with the prog pal stuff. The audit and we've had some good conversations with different people. I don't want to so basically, I want to avoid saying the names of certain people, some of you I've already talked to about who are like actively involved in recruiting.

G

Some of these auditors already know some of the names, but the reason I want to avoid. It is just in case they don't want their names revealed yet because I don't really know how public I can be with it until I talk to the rest of the group.

G

So just the the main thing is we do have a few people who are different groups with different backgrounds who are wanting to audit prog Pao, and we are discussing it later in a meeting today, some of the stuff around funding and some of the stuff around which groups should be auditing, the the pro the protocol itself. Hopefully, a lot of good will come of that call and I can update everybody afterwards in the chat channel about what happens there.

G

B

To clarify you mean that this is like the etherium found a the when you say that we're having a phone call, you mean this you're in foundation, no.

G

This is the well I'm representing the etherium foundation on the call, but this is a few people who are thinking about funding, potentially okay,.

B

It's completely grassroots yeah.

G

I would say they are known organizations, but that the initiative to look for funding has been grassroots. Yes, hey.

B

Can I can I just ask you a few questions about this? Just because I mean I've been trying to work at finding teams that can audit and it's actually been very difficult for me. I hasn't made a lot of headway. Okay can I. Just ask you a few questions about.

G

B

These groups from inside crypto or are they more like processing people eg Intel without it specifically they're.

G

From inside crypto so far so like, for example, people who've done major audits for cryptocurrencies in the past, people who are ASIC manufacturers themself or have been involved in the process or the supply line of creating or designing or auditing Asics in the past stuff, like that, but.

B

Don't have skin in the game that would make them biased.

G

That's that remains to be seen the fact that there's so few people who are able to do this makes it hard for us to make that a priority. It's.

B

One of the reasons I've been personally trying, though I'll admit, I, really like, even though I had like a bit of a windfall I got in touch with actually.

B

Until an IFO, which is actually where they do to the manufacturing, I've been trying to pursue, trying to find meters, processor, factures, foundry company, but I I'm, just having a difficult time navigating it like I, mean I, tried working.

D

B

Through Intel Samsung, a friend of mine, as a professor in New York I, mean I would think that would really be critical to try and find people outside outside the ecosystem. Personally, yeah.

G

And the only problem with that is a lot of the things that are on our kind of list of questions and due diligence items are things that would be hard for an out of someone outside of crypto to just jump in on. So let me pull up for an example. Real quick.

G

You so like stuff like, what's going to be the effect of minor power in general, what are the?

G

How long would it take to create a new proof-of-work specialized ASIC if we implement prog pal like stuff like that, involves knowledge of the industry at a like, very unique, like level so, for instance, there's Ben's I can say this much that there's been conversations with people from SIA who don't have any skin in the game as far as prog Pao goes and they're highly trusted in the ecosystem, so they are people who would be I, think pretty good for the job and they even though they're bias and the fact that they create an Asics and they do other mining activities.

G

I, don't think they're gonna be Pro ASIC, because they're not creating one apparently for et hash, so yeah. So it's a it's a hard line to walk, but I guess we'll just have to do our best once we have all the options on the table. What the what what point? The point we're at right now with the entire audit, is getting the options on the table and in parallel, finding pre commitments for funding and.

D

G

I think we're doing a good job of both. So far, we've had people I've heard. People who I didn't realize could actually knew this before kind of step up and say we have the skills or we know someone who can audit. So that's that is promising. I think it's gonna go a little slower than we thought only because it's such a niche thing to find people who are experts on it about.

B

Yeah, you know I'm not trying to criticize the work off. So one of the reasons why I'm asking is I'm I, guess I'm weighing with myself, if I should keep on in parallel, trying to work on these avenues. I assume that I should because, at least for the technicals, like you know, just measuring how Hardware work perform with algorithm. It probably still is best to try and work outside the system. I'm assuming if I could make inroads on something like that that it would still be worthwhile I.

G

Believe so, but here's what I can do after the call today cuz I might get on the call today with the people who are trying to coordinate some of the stuff and they say: oh we've already found someone for that and then I can. Let you know if it's worth pursuing further awesome.

A

G

In fact, let me write that down.

G

Does anyone else have questions I'm happy to I know? This is a very it's weird that I can't give names yet not because everyone wants to be super secret squirrel about this, but just because I don't want to potentially get like if I say a name of someone, who's interested join desk and everyone else is gonna start coming to them and saying oh, we heard that you're funding an audit, or we heard that you're looking for funds for an audit, or we heard that you're gonna, audit, Prague, POW and I don't want to I.

G

Don't want to do that before. The time is right that we like know which auditors are best so I'm, only letting certain the certain channels and the cat herders some private channels know, and then people who are very close to the situation know.

G

Yeah any other questions about Prague toilet it right now.

C

It's just a quick update from what we've been doing on our side, yeah, just a little subcommittee, Charles Hudson, you know myself and Chris and William have just been reaching out to various stakeholders that on specific auditors, but on as we'd consider either pretty involved in the whole pop our discussion or have some pretty strong influence within the etherion community and we're just trying to get some feedback from them as to how they feel what the pros and cons are.

C

What they'd like to see from our technical order perspective, as well as where they stand in terms of profile, so we've reached out to quite a few people and just waiting on feedback at the Milan film. A lot of them.

G

Great, that's gonna, be very, very helpful. I believe.

C

Obviously Lane you could probably speak better to this, but you've also gone and and created a mechanism of writing using ether, yeah.

F

Sorry, thank you for bringing it up and let me just quickly explain: what's going on there, I didn't involve the cat herders more in it, because basically, someone anonymously reached out to me and offered funding for it and said they wanted it set up and yeah I mean I, guess you know it ended up as an issue on a cat, hoarders repository so I guess it is sort of a cat herders initiative, but yeah we ended up finding someone on get coin to do it so that's been set up, it's a carbon vote, and so basically it is a vote where you vote, based on your token holdings on your ether holdings and it's a like there's a few of these platforms right, there's one called chain chain, votes, org or something I think which, which was done, but only received like 14 votes and there's a subtle difference here, because I think that one requires you to like manually, create a transaction and submit it using like my youth or wallet or something, whereas this one, you can literally just click a button and then submit a meta mass transaction.

F

So it's a bit easier, so it hasn't been like officially launched yet but I think that will probably happen today and we can start spreading the word about it. Inevitably, there will be backlash. There always is right because people will say: oh it's a plutocracy. Why are you letting you know people who hold the lots of ether vote? And you know my answer is always the same, which is yeah I know it's not a perfect signal but like it's still a useful signal.

G

Yeah I think that oh wait, I'm, probably muted, no you're, good, Oh, perfect, so I think it's good that we have multiple signaling systems and that's the message we should be sending is that it's not bad to have multiple signaling systems, but no single signalling system is going to be the canonical one.

G

Well, actually, we shouldn't say that completely because there could be a canonical signaling system if we find a good enough one but I think for now. We don't really have that. So just a lot of signaling systems help us come up with community consensus, better.

D

B

H

Also, I, imagine that no one like there would be no final decision.

H

That's the case, I think so. There's been a lot of noise over the last week, mostly if we launched that.

H

I think that's good, but I also think that at some point we will. It would also be good to just.

H

You know think of that, so I think it would be pretty good if, during the actual audit.

H

And then it comes up again, I, don't know what is I just think. It would be good for the waters to come down at some point before I finalize.

C

Yeah I suspect that the order is probably gonna take a bit of time. You guys, sir, unless we're gonna actively be sending out messages every week. I suspect it's gonna get quieter before we get news on that on that Technic order.

H

G

I think it's good that we're getting these signals earlier than later, because yeah it's relevant right now and we aren't gonna, get the results of the audits soon, and so it's just gonna have to it's. Gonna wait for a little bit.

C

You still near Hudson, oh.

G

I think I was on me yeah, so yeah I think it's good that we have these signalling systems. Should we an are relaunching it today, layin I.

F

Don't see why not I mean it's up, it works right now, I'm, pretty sure, like votes are being recorded, that you guys can certainly try it out. It's it's well, not anonymous, but pseudonymous, it's tied to whatever aetherium matters you choose to vote with, so you can. Obviously you know use whichever you like or use multiple or you can also change your vote later.

F

I still need to make some tweaks to like make it more stable, especially it's kind of terrifying, because I'm gonna be offline for 10 days and I really hope it doesn't fall over in ten days. Good time.

C

F

That's what I was asking about in the telegram and I think who just said she has some experience with like Linux and death and stuff, so, like kind of looking for someone to help keep an eye on it, but anyway, yes, I think it could be launched. Today.

C

Perfect, it doesn't work with any micro dossier, DPZ.

F

So so I'm not sure right. So this is one of the controversial things about carbon votes. Is that actually it can be used, I believe to vote with funds locked in things like multi, SIG's and other contracts, whereas the other system cannot, but you can also manually blacklist addresses for exchanges, I think there's a field to do that on the forum.

G

Yeah liusia did you have a comment I.

E

Know I already get in touch with Lane for that carbon. What things awesome.

G

Anything else on the prog pal stuff: we only have about 15 minutes left or so so I wanted to get to the other things.

G

Okay, cool uh where's, the agenda: oh the websites complete great job, everybody who did the website I like and blanking on the names right now: yeah, good work, Thank, You, Hudson.

C

G

C

Charles I mean Hugo Hugo, adament Charles great.

G

Are we also launching that or what are we doing for that.

A

They pushing out a social thing for or just having it. Maybe we could just totally leave it, how it is on our Twitter and they're redirecting.

D

A

Our sites, but we could also just mention it publicly, but it's not a massive deal or yeah.

G

It's a simple site, so I.

C

Know that in the community press, which is the next topic of discussion, it's better at the bottom for people who want to get more involved and the cat herders I um I think we have it there. People can pick through.

G

Yeah I think so as well. That's good and yeah that actually comes to the next item, which is where did I go. I cannot find the agenda here. It is.

G

See post earth Kurdish community post? Thank you, I think it's pooja for writing the community post the newsletter.

E

G

Awesome I thought it was really well written and yeah that good job, that's all I, had to say about it. What does anyone else have comments.

F

Thanks, thank you. Let's, let's keep, let's keep doing that you, you may want to share what you an offer and I discussed about sort of just communication in general. On this note,.

G

Yeah, so we kind of just had a one-off conversation about some of the issues around the ecosystem and stuff, and part of that was how to better communicate certain major things.

G

Cuz we've been finding that stuff, like some of the e IPs and constantinople, are just now being discussed, even though we've had a year over a year to discuss the changes and there's only five changes going into constantinople in total and now suddenly, the create to change is starting to be like a little bit controversial, and so there needs to be a better funnel for people to be able to give feedback on Eid and other stuff that could you know that means different technical and non-technical feedback, so we're kind of brainstorming and hoping when I say we I mean I, hope the cat herders can kind of help brainstorm some of the ways we can do, that better did I cover that Lane or what?

G

What? What? What else is there.

F

Yeah I mean I, agree, I, think at a high level, it's just like. We need to figure out the role for the cat herders in the ecosystem and in the governance and project management process and like while I think that scope started pretty narrow, like what I'm beginning to see. Is that there's sort of like almost limitless stuff that this group can do, because there's so many things missing? You know in sort of again project management and governance, and so I'd love to see gradually and incrementally, as we build trust and experience, etc.

F

Right that scope to grow and I just think communication is a huge part of it right. We need to be clear with people about who we are, what we're doing what our intentions are, as well as what you said, Hudson, which is just like how do we generate like social layer support for a lot of this stuff, both internally among the core devs and core teams, as well as externally with the public? So like another thing we talked about was like: what's the narrative that we want to convey to the world, basically.

G

Cool yep, that's exactly it I think I mean.

B

As we go through more iterations of things, either like the Constantinople, hard fork or Prague pile right now, where people from the cat herders are reaching out to numerous stakeholders and that relationship sort of gets built up I mean, naturally, that probably would give us more of an ability to highlight different things and try and like you know, strict cauldron about, like you know, getting people to look at things and whatnot.

B

There's a political term, I think its width that I might be getting confused that like that their job, essentially is just to say, like hey. Look at this hey think about this I mean that definitely is something that I think could be relevant for us, but we're probably gonna have to build up a certain level of really reputation before we're able to do that efficiently. I.

F

Agree we we had spoken before about possibly doing a longer form blog post about what the cat herders I actually lost. That thread is that something that's still supposed to happen. Yeah.

C

That's actually what we're supposed to be talking about with this topic, the community first, and so it has been written that has been edited by Charles and William, and now it's just a case of whether we want to publish it tonight.

F

Would you mind reposting the link to that the telegram I I'm sure I missed the last one, so I apologize, no worries, okay,.

G

What is the next item, or actually are we done with that item? Lane? Was there anything else.

F

Yeah I'm good I mean it's more just you know signing a seed for people to think about. You know what our sort of communication strategy should be. I think that it should be done incrementally and I think that we're doing the right things in the right order, totally I.

G

Agree so updates on the post-mortem and how we plan to track them. The subcommittee is Brett Charles ago and puja.

C

At the moment, my patients probably gonna, be running with that.

C

A

So I put together a brief project board with all the action items from the report and I spoke with pooja about getting started with one of them because she doesn't want to get too involved with the prog po on a report because she has an opinion on it, but otherwise they're just up on that board to kind of take on the key point. There would be that with respect to these action items, how how and where are we gonna put them once they're done?

A

How are we gonna share the news with the new processes or the new kind of ideas for future events, and all these things afterwards, so the action items kind of need to have action items mm-hmm you just kind of fill out a rubric or create this template or former committee for future emergencies.

A

When is it going to be notified and when is it going to be used or is it just got a lot around.

E

That way, we can put together one spot like as we go on with the action item. We can go ahead and update. It can be one up of the source from where we can.

E

Of course, I will give it a mention in our weekly updates, I hope to push it every Monday. So that's what I think.

F

Kuja was the weekly update that you put together was that post on the medium as well, uh not.

E

Yet I don't think I have access to medium I just have access to. Let it read it. So that's what okay.

F

If you send me your medium handle I can give you access to the to the medium it I just think you be good to put more stuff on that channel.

G

Okay, cool anything else on that.

G

Alright, so let's see the etherium development portal design and structure aye-aye-aye since I've been I've been going on vacation the last week, so I kind of caught bits and pieces of this but I think it's a good idea. Who was the one spearheading this? Mainly okay? Who came up with the idea so.

A

Yeah I kind of suggested it because I've done them before and I started.

G

Putting together.

A

A document with everything you would entail from our conversation, the telegram but it'd- be great to have a more a lengthier conversation on what we would all want from it, but maybe that's not the time to have it now.

G

Okay sounds good to me and then a subcommittee to help offeree with tasks related to the hard for coordination, Andy, ip's monitoring. So what would this entail and offer you? What do you need help with right now? As far as this stuff goes,.

G

I

All right now, I'm, just gathering volunteers I, want to start with this more closely once Dustoff Constantinople's edits, maybe in two or four weeks, I'm fairly busy right now so I'm I'm just preparing to start working on this. So.

C

You don't want.

I

To have all just had to get up and raise your hand on the two issues I created.

G

Cool all right, so everyone got that just go to github and or talk to offeree, and we can get coordinated on that and then he'll hit the ground running on that and a couple of like in a week or two is what you're saying because you're busy okay, which get.

I

One of our project management managing and also of you, we have.

B

I

This can turn us, but I, don't know if this process p.m. or Tom's it.

B

Still not too much I can wait.

I

A

Need to merge those yeah.

C

And someone more asleep.

G

Yeah, let's merge them.

G

By vote is for everything to get merged into p.m. I.

F

Set up tasks to be externally facing because people keep asking how they can contribute I'd love to have a single repository where we can send people. You know, whereas maybe p.m. could be like used like aetherium / p.m. which is just for like meeting notes, but I mean it could just I guess it could just be one as well. It's not a big deal. We could just. We could use tags instead and just tag things for like good, first issue or like please contribute.

G

Yeah I'm, starting to think having it all in one place like a one-stop shop, is gonna, be the easiest to organize. So people don't have to be going to different links if they're doing different things and I.

F

Took it with me, okay,.

G

I'm, actually not I, haven't actually interacted with the github much who can combine those and it's basically just porting over process tasks and p.m. all into I, guess p.m. are.

F

We all agreed that that's the right, let me let me rephrase the question any and he over my dead body or.

G

Anybody just opposed to it I'm just curious what people, how people think we should organize it cuz. The way that I just proposed might not be the right way. I.

C

Agree with him got no issues really no.

A

F

I think they're called tags, yeah yeah, so for eight issues.

G

There'd be different tags for the actual document, surgeon or like if there's notes or things taken, then be in different folders I. Think yeah.

F

Yeah, okay I'll work on combining it today, I'm pretty sure that Hudson you and offer you're, also like marked as owners of the organization on github, so I'm pretty sure you guys could do it, but I'll just give it a shot. Okay, thanks.

G

So much Lane I'm you're, looking to see if I'm an owner, I think I am I. Am an owner yep offer he's not so I'm gonna make him an owner.

F

Right now, because I think offer II didn't accept my first invitation to join or something but he's now added as a member, then we're in good shape. Alright awesome.

G

And then I think that's it did we get through all the items I'm.

C

Just the one cleaning up the communication documents for hard folks related activities, yeah.

G

That's actually yeah. That's action item 7, yeah,.

C

Probably leads up to preparation for Constantinople T, so.

G

Can someone do that and then get with offeree on that.

B

What what exactly needs to happen.

G

The action item 7 is to clean up the communication document for hard Forks and related activities, so that would a wait. No, no sorry I read that wrong. The communication document is the one that has all the exchanges, and the miners listed is that right, yep.

D

G

One okay, who does everyone here, have access to that I think I posted it a while ago and the cat herders, but I, don't know if everyone saved the link, I I cleaned it.

B

Up once upon a time, it should be ready to go. Oh.

G

All right cool did.

A

You just duplicate it and then clean out the entries I.

B

Duplicated it cleaned out the entries made that into a template and then I even went the extra mile and made a new fresh one for the new hard fork. So we kept the template there.

G

I'll Pat myself on the back.

G

You deserve it so yeah that sounds good. So that sounds like that's done. Then.

C

Unless it's required for Constantinople to.

G

Any what required any.

C

Work or preparation, that's required, Constantinople I'm,.

G

Sure there is, but we should probably look at it more next week, because I think Ofra said he's busy right now, so he doesn't have like a concrete list. Yet, okay, we can stop talking checks anyway, yeah, if you, if you feel like helping with that reach out, to offer your work on the github issues and well, what is now gonna eventually be a combined Oh.

G

Actually, Blane is already in the process of doing this.

G

So Lane is now moving everything to p.m. like. Currently yeah.

F

So I archived the process repository the tasks one. We still have this open, github, sorry get coin bounty for the carbon votes thing, so I may not be able to archive that until that's been closed off I'll check with get clean, but yeah.

I

You can move issues on github now.

F

So I just transferred the issues, the issues for process to p.m. but again the tasks. One is linked on the get coin side: I, don't think it would pick it up if I moved it, it might break something so I'll just check. Oh.

I

Yeah I will be redirected. So if you go from get closer, okay, okay and if not, we just talked to get Quinn I guess.

E

One more thing: I need to check on here, like in BM, I, have submitted a bullet quest and I think it has been approved by chance, but he may not be able to merge it. So I was looking for. Who can do that for.

D

Another review.

A

Just so, it was kind of a hard fork who I did approve, but it was looking. It looks for a second approval to merge and it was for just the post-mortem action items, summary I suppose and then it links to the project board.

G

A

G

Sorry, I missed that last part decide what well.

A

I guess so, if for the project board, we would have to decide of the if that is what we want to describe, what it would be and then have the foe actions after it. There.

G

What everyone does everyone else think.

A

G

C

G

In the project, section is good if.

C

G

I just read through this real, quick or skimmed it, and it looks good to me so I can merge it.

G

Cool, so we can start a project, then, on github.

G

All right anything else, anyone has.

G

um When it's the next mutant uh a week from now, but we're not gonna start having them every week, this was just a one-off yeah.

G

Does that sound good to everybody, or should we wait two weeks.

B

I'm fine with next week.

H

G

That's that's a good idea. That'll give us a good update for Prague pal between now and then and everybody wish slaying a good time he's going on a weird 10-day, meditation or two retreat.

F

Hudson I, like the meditation retweet, that's a party.

F

I'll be off from tomorrow for ten days and I. Think Chris is on one right now as well. So this seems to be a theme for us.

C

A

Enjoying that at.

C

Least, in ones we cleared.

G

A

Guys you'd enjoy cool.

G

All right thanks everybody for attending, and we will talk to you guys on telegram, get er and see you in a week. Awesome.

A

Good, hey guys, yeah.