Ethereum Cat Herders EIP editor apprenticeship meeting, 3 May 2022

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From YouTube: EIP editors apprenticeship meeting 16

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Agenda: https://github.com/ethereum-cat-herders/EIPIP/issues/124

A

All right, let me share agenda here, yeah be meeting 16 right all right, so I have updated the with the pull requests link for new new proposals as well as some proposals that doesn't seem like very good.

A

So maybe we can look into that and then we can go back with your if time permits, then we can go back with your usual looking into other.

B

A

All right so will screen sharing work for you today.

C

Yeah, let me see if I can set it up here.

C

Be able to see that.

A

Yep I can as an image right I mean like your webcam.

C

Yeah, I haven't been able to get the screen sharing to work natively, so I've just had this hack. That makes it through my webcam.

A

I mean this is fine. This works well, the only problem, sometimes it happens is like. If someone else is speaking, then um it takes over that's right.

C

Yeah, that's a good point: hello, william, hey hi, dude,.

D

We're doing well uh still using screen sharing hack.

C

Yeah, you know, I thought wayland would be fun and it is.

B

C

Have to use zoom, then it's not.

D

uh I'm still one of these days, maybe I'll switch.

E

I don't know, I don't know if it's worth the pain, pain, yeah. I've got an x to work, so you know.

A

I don't know, maybe some other version of it might help like linux. ah We use garuda here and now and when we use like web, not by the app of zoom, I think it works fine. You.

D

A

Garuda, that is a version of linux.

D

Oh here's the thing with linux there's some things that happen, probably that you're probably not used to from.

B

Other operating systems, which is what.

D

uh What clients means is that even once you're using say, ubuntu or whatever you're using you have to discard, it's not like. That also tells your screen how to display stuff.

D

So you have to pick a display manager like gnome, or something like that, which you don't think is a separate concept from an operating system like windows, but then there's also this layer of figuring out even kind of the entire graphics interface and the two major platforms platforms. I don't even know what I'd call them for that are either x or zorg or wait. So wayland is newer and more modern and works better in general, except for screen.

D

Sharing screen sharing is a known nightmare on weyland, so you don't change your distro if you're moving between zorg and wayland for a lot of distros, even there's something you can do when you log in to pick which one you're using.

D

um But it's just like another thing under the hood that since it's linux, you also need to kind of like pick and control.

A

So this is 497.

B

C

C

C

We're just participating in our favorite pastime, editing, ercs.

F

It's the best way to wake up in the morning. Honestly, just can't start my day without a cup of coffee and uh about a long eip.

D

Well, then, you are definitely going to be an iep editor.

D

It's like you know, uh I I I'd say that the biggest biggest sign someone should be an editor. You know can't start their morning, whatever.

C

It also makes it so that they're only a very small number of editors in the world.

C

All right they want to have name owned accounts.

C

The owner. I like how they put the hyphen down here in then not up there in the same capitalization.

C

um By the owner of the name, besides, the existing externally owned contract account.

C

Count type you should be able to transverse utopian using the name derived address to address the name owner.

F

So from what I remember about this one, it's supposed to be a um like a way to link an ethereum address to an arbitrary name, and that name is provided by some third party provider.

D

This is like a bit of a whack to me, like I'm, not really understanding what the point of this is.

C

Don't we have enos.

D

This seems very different and significantly less useful.

F

It's like the opposite of ens. Instead of like giving an address to it. Like you know, you don't register.

C

A name and I'm signing the name in the token contract, rather than the token contracts living separately.

F

Yeah yeah, I guess that's one way to put it.

C

I just want to figure out where the name comes from.

C

Like do I register like how do I register? Oh.

F

It's from anywhere, like that's, not part of the specification. It's like you can say that, like the account is owned by a twitter handle and then some some other entity has to link the account to the twitter handle.

C

So then, how do I make a transfer.

C

Like I don't know, I'm like confused by this, like I call safe transfer from name or like approve for name, and I don't really understand this is a bit painful to read. You know.

B

uh Let's see, transfer.

C

D

What's this erc20 integration doing here, awesome.

C

Okay transfer from name from is just bytes.

D

C

An address I.

D

Get it uh that's like an integration so that you're able to transfer using the name as opposed to the address.

D

Same with 721.

C

So this is okay. This is what's confusing, approve from name you're, saying that the owner is the name like how do you verify it like? What does the implementation this function actually look like I'm assuming you would need an external.

D

Call to name owned account like the first contractor to look it up.

C

Oh sorry, I kept skipping over this new one account.

D

Just uh new functions just need.

C

To like address the name, so the name owned account. So there's not like a canonical name on account. Anyone can deploy whatever they want.

D

This would work best with a centralized registry, obviously, but yeah yeah. I don't know.

C

I think I understand it now. It looks properly formatted.

D

D

Does this serum thing make any sense? I can't imagine how I would.

D

C

This guy's gone three rounds against sam wilson.

B

I'm like this is so weird. I don't know man.

C

Formally soul-bound tokens.

C

I remember this one.

C

Non-Transferable non-fungible account bound tokens.

D

This is 4973.

C

C

Standard api, for account balance token, also known as badges within smart contracts. I wonder what optimism ended up using because I think that they also had some concept for their governance thing of like non-transferable tokens.

D

I don't know what this was worth. I did write a sold out nft once and I just bricked the 721 functions um as in it has transfer and functions like that in it so that it actually complies with the 721 standard, but the function is just bricked.

D

Like it reverts um like, which I mean theoretically, I think it's the smartest way to do it, because, when.

B

D

Looking at something like people want it to show up most likely in something like openc, so keeping the normal interface kind of makes sense as opposed to inventing a new standard. But I don't know you never know. Maybe something like this could get traction.

B

D

Theoretically becoming something I don't know.

C

D

What's that weird exception on line 47 or 46, sorry don't have to fire transfer when a token is assigned in a constructor.

F

That's the same as uh 721. I think 721 makes the same provision. It's it's either 721 or 1155. um One of them makes a provision where you don't have to fire transfer in the constructor. Why not?

F

uh Because if you're doing like a huge token drop or something it costs a lot of extra gas, so um yeah you just don't fire it in the constructor weird.

D

Yeah, it is maybe just don't do an airdrop that sends a thousand tokens to people, but okay.

B

D

You know, uh I guess that's a question like you do in a mistake like you know something that we can support, perpetuate the mistake because it's already, like you know, been canonized or I don't know.

C

Being bound to a human soul,.

F

Oh, you, don't you don't like a section on why it's called naming or why it's called soapbound.

C

But this is a section on why it's not called civil bound anymore, oh yeah. Well I mean I don't know but like if you're just reading the eep- and you don't see soulbound anywhere like other than this place, where it's just formally sold on tokens, then it just seems like why tell me about this idea. You had for naming it.

C

I guess I mean look, I kind of like the fun sections about naming, but.

C

Little things to solve here, too anyways.

C

C

Oh they used foundry. Is this the first instance of foundry in the eeps repository.

D

I don't think so: 46 26, I think also.

E

D

D

I use dab tools for one go me nice.

C

Fungible but non-tradable tokens.

C

Sam approved these and it didn't get.

C

Merged ah wait.

C

Is this associated but because there are changes being made, all changes to corresponding assets are allowed.

F

Yeah, I don't ever check the bots, they don't they don't work so like I, I kind of just ignore them and like maybe go through them to catch spelling mistakes, but like I, I have no idea why this one didn't merge yeah. I also.

C

Have no idea why this one did not merge.

F

You might just need to close and open again or it could be.

C

I mean yeah what happens.

C

Non-Fungible but tradable tokens.

F

Are these just nfts.

F

I haven't even looked at this one, yet.

C

C

This is not the format I kind of like this cool format, though.

C

This is very rfce.

C

Oh, it worked nice, it just needed some coaxing.

C

Evm call message: translation, web3, url.

F

This one's a neat idea, but it.

F

Needs to be less specific to their company.

C

I feel like I know this person from some something. What has he worked on in the past.

F

If I could read your screen, I'd probably know.

C

I I really need to get set up where I can just pop back into gnome or something.

F

You don't just like log out and log back in.

C

No okay, I mean yeah. I could probably set that up, but.

F

Wait, what do you mean log out log back in so when I log out and go to my login manager, there's a little icon on the bottom? That lets me switch my desktop environment.

C

But that would be you're, assuming that I have a login manager.

F

I mean, if you you, don't just drop into a logged in environment. Do you.

C

No, I just drop into a shell and I type in mine. I would have found a.

D

Giga chad meme to send you if you did, though my gosh it's like drop.

B

E

Don't need a username.

D

I don't need I just go right in.

E

Encrypts grub bootloader, but log straight in without passing out. Yes,.

D

You heard a hot wallet, I got a hot laptop.

C

I have no idea why it takes so long, but I have like an encrypted bootloader, because I rather some stupid side channel attack that I guess you can do to get around um like if you've encrypted your your normal drive, so you'd have to encrypt the bootloader as well. I didn't realize how long it takes to decrypt that thing like it's a full 30 60 seconds after I type in my password there's.

F

Definitely something wrong. Oh no, it's probably a um uh like a key derivation function. You can probably adjust that.

C

I have no idea why, but now, like I'm, not going to encrypt my boot loader again, that was that wasn't necessary.

F

So what like you use like a t, the tpm and everything to verify your bootloader and yeah. I think so. Wow hardcore.

C

All right, we want to understand what this web3 url to evm call message: translation is, it is a translation of http style, log3 url, okay, that's just what the title said again translate an rfc uri like this to an edm message such as this interesting.

F

Yeah, I have no idea where that notation comes from.

C

Yeah, this was just invented in this eip. Yes,.

C

um Don't they mean a transaction uh yeah yeah.

C

Okay, so let's just see what else they have in store. First before I posted anything mostly done by proxies such as dapwood.

C

D

Yeah, sorry, I must have misunderstood what they were trying to do. Then.

F

It's just a it's just a standard for like how to format a url so that you can turn it into a call.

C

F

It's just like.

C

Read-Only or view functions I see yeah but like yeah, there's no.

C

That's fun. I like.

F

That it's it's a great idea, but I this standard doesn't work like it needs. I mean it's, I guess it works, it's just. It needs more help right.

F

And like they don't um specify how to handle like dot, ca or dot com e s names, because they have their own um name service that they want to also shoehorn into this. uh So they have this mapping between extension, to name, resolution service and yeah. It's not great.

D

The other thing is, this is going to imply doing, string, parsing and solidity right.

F

D

F

No, it translates it to like a solidity api encoding. So you you end up having like web3 colon, slash, slash the address, slash the function. You want to call slash like 0x1234.

F

uh I think I think they use a exclamation mark address and then that just gets encoded into like normal um call arguments.

C

B

Did an ellipse.

C

Here to denote that they were omitting something, but then they just don't have anything else for the address, and so I'm just like what is the from address here.

F

Wait go down to that second example: there: where does that from address, come from.

D

My brain is such porridge right now, I'm like looking at and just oh, like brain, cannot do it.

C

Wait, this does not make sense like that, should not be the front. That should be the two.

F

It should be the two. I think it is the two.

D

How it's like the frozen like.

C

I really think that that is the frog address.

C

They keep saying like we'll look this up from ens and then call the address with from equal to the address.

F

But uh go up to the specification part like I think they actually say what the from is. I have a co-author of this. I really should know.

C

C

Indicate? Okay? Which user is calling the evm yeah.

F

So, look at look at the uh the the syntax up there, a little bit so scroll up. um So it's the user info at yeah. So that's before the uh wait for the add.

C

But for these there's no add yeah.

F

So the from is probably just unspecified.

F

Yeah, but that's just not what they got there.

F

This is cool yeah.

C

F

It says if the uh from field is not specified, it should use all zeros, as the sender address.

C

Yeah, that makes sense, I think so.

B

What are the yeah, the examples.

C

Yeah, it's just all of the examples, have an issue.

C

Oh all the ones to say from you know.

C

Yeah there's a weird thing here because, like there's no concept in the evm of something that's just a read-only call like I don't know what to say. This is because it's not a transaction uri. No, it's an eth call, it kind of. Is it's a uri to do a json, rpc call.

F

Well, yeah, it's a standard way of representing the arguments of a json rpc call yeah.

B

B

C

C

That one merged excellent.

C

C

A

Eap, editors right there.

C

A

Eip editors strike samuelson.

C

Oh yeah, it's unfortunate because harry it's just talked to me a couple times the last couple weeks and he's really sad because he didn't actually snipe it.

F

Didn't spam, he just waited for it. Yeah yeah, but mike has definitely done the same thing with other eips. That accidentally got the number so yeah.

C

So we're gonna give him a different number.

F

That's what I've seen other editors do in the past, so I did the same thing um feel free to have a different ruling on that. If you'd like.

A

So I have a question here for all the editors, uh this number, the different number. I am assuming that this number does not have any pull request or issue associated with it.

F

It does not have a pull request associated with it, it might have had an issue um yeah, it doesn't have anything associated with it. All.

A

Right, no, I'm asking this because uh generally, if there is um an eip official eip, then it is either a pull request or issue like historically, they used to create an issue first and then make the pull request. So that was the process just want to make sure that there should not be any confusion.

F

Yeah yeah, I I went and picked one that didn't have anything associated with it.

F

It's still a draft pr, that's why I haven't reviewed this one yet.

C

I think they're just so broken that they wrote an entire eep sniping bot just to not get their number.

F

I mean 4998: isn't that bad either.

A

Yeah, I think that would make sense like the one which was with bart, and we know that it is spam. That number can make sense. But if a number is.

B

A

Existing either in form of issue or pr um chances are that might create confusion. Yeah.

F

Exactly I, you definitely want to avoid that. That's why I didn't go like 5001, because that might have been created as an issue later so.

F

I I'm still a fan of having a like bought, assign the numbers and then just not worry about what it designs, but right.

A

Good news for all of us, like I am expecting some people from foundation to join us help out with this part and issues and how we want to improve what we'll hear more about it, maybe in tomorrow's call eipip meeting. So if, if someone joins us, then it will be great for us yeah. Looking.

F

C

C

F

F

Yeah, this is still in draft. I wouldn't wouldn't worry about reviewing.

C

It it says it's an oh, it's open! Oh.

F

Well then, I'll I'll finish it I'll I'll, give you a ping when it's ready for review. Okay, I'll just leave! This comment: real quick.

B

F

Dan was also trying to snipe five thousand so.

C

D

Guys, I'm like my head is just like blasted. I see am like not in the game today, so I think I might just drop that a bit early. If that's okay,.

C

Sure yeah take care, please good to challenge.

A

You for joining.

D

Likewise, yeah, I hope to catch you all next time. Hope I'm like actually like.

C

A composable design philosophy for dowels is this the one that used to just be called daos.

F

No okay: this is a different one yeah. I haven't seen this one yet.

A

Okay, I think I may have some context for at this one, so I had aaron. We all know that he is a dow person. He is kind of creates some dow related a group. I think they are also approaching moloch for funding and all so maybe it is related to that. I have seen one proposal on molok tower this time.

A

I'm not sure I'm not 100 sure if this is the same one I may have to look into it.

C

I'm just confused why they link to this and say this is a philosophy for daos, but the point of the eep would be then to define the philosophy.

F

A lot of things just shouldn't be standardized.

C

Yeah, I think this might be a place to put a foot down just like this does not need to be an eve.

F

I haven't read it yet, but what's the number on this one, five thousand.

C

Five: five thousand five.

C

F

Is this just yet another smart contract wallet standard? I think it might be.

F

Oh, I see it's like a a plug-in system. I guess interesting.

F

F

F

How do you get people to merge their eips because there's a couple of these usage rights- ones that are um very similar like they do the same thing.

C

I don't know I mean I really feel like. On the nft front, we should have somebody who's working with people to try and come up with these standards, and I mean you can make.

E

A working group of.

B

C

Yeah, I don't know I kind of feel like that's what annette is sort of trying to do, but it would be better if she was like engaging with these people and, like you know, have like a road map for the nft standard like the nft standard is more than just 721 1155 and.

C

I to me I don't know it seems like the only reasonable way to go about it. You can't you can't force like all these people to do exactly that and if it doesn't fit in the roadmap, maybe they still make their own eeps, but they wouldn't be like quote-unquote blessed. I guess.

A

I think for especially erc kind of proposal, not if they come up with some projects, some popular project, implementing those proposals, chances of making that as standard are higher, if that is like kind of standard not specific to one project.

A

So I think it's more of involvement of champions and authors pushing the proposal.

F

Okay, hang on there's one, that's literally the same thing as this. Let me let me go and find it here.

F

Oh, I see one's for 721 and one's for 11.55. That makes sense.

C

I mean honestly, this is pretty much ready to go.

F

Do you ever feel, like you, never make any progress on eips like they just come in faster than uh let me get through them.

C

I I've been feeling that more and more the past, like four or five months, yeah.

B

There was a while, where.

C

I felt on top of them more and now it just seems that more and more people are wanting to build them, and I'm, like I saw the other day like we're like 50 65, like 55 100, almost I'm just thinking. You know where, where are all these eeps coming from it's our ages,.

F

Well, I mean the numbers are mostly just spam, like there's so much spam.

A

But the numbers are not less even I mean I have started preparing the cips inside and according to it there were seven ercs, those were merged last month, but there were 16 proposals which could not have been reviewed. So it's like. The number is too much.

F

Yeah you've got to put a one-eighth deposit whenever you uh start the.

A

F

A

Proposal those those can be incentivized to the ap editors there.

F

Oh no, they get it back once it's merged or closed, but as long as it's open they don't they don't get their money back. Oh.

A

F

A

Interesting proposal to keep their interest in it right, yeah.

F

C

Civil resistance.

F

I don't know if you've been following my reviews at all matt or puja, but if you have any feedback on my feedback, I would appreciate it because I still feel like I'm really new at this.

F

I've been following your reviews.

C

Here and there and everything that I've seen has been solid.

A

Yeah and I would love to say thank you because at least people are getting responses like in a timely manner, once.

F

A

No, that's that's also. Okay, that's also not bad. We know that someone is at least looking into these proposals, and that's why I have listed all the proposals which were new.

F

Yeah I just try to go through the have in emails in my inbox, so the older ones get attention first, but.

A

Matt, I know you have been looking into all new proposals and we have just 10 minutes left so after this proposal. If you can look into the you know the first four or five, I think those are relatively older, but they might require your attention. There.

C

All righty we'll do.

C

F

Oh, did they link to erc instead of eip, or I didn't think.

C

F

C

It says eap, 721, so I'm slightly confused, but.

C

Oh they've got it here in this read me: maybe that's the problem. Yeah no.

F

That would make sense.

F

Yeah, I think, having um the bot make comments in the eip. Instead of putting them in the output of the the logs is going to make such a huge difference like. I think people will actually fix the problems before we get to the eips yeah.

C

C

You wanted me to go to these top couple ones, or these up here, yeah.

A

um Yeah top couple ones and then maybe review statistics, because those are for just to move into final and to review. I think even sam has created one pull request to be addressed there.

C

So you were wanting to look at the new drafts, though oh.

A

No, no, uh the top two yeah pr suggested for review and steps.

A

So those are all pull request numbers I'm sorry! I should have linked it too.

C

No you're good. I can't type.

C

B

C

A

So with this, I see that the person has created a pull request for 4995 and using the eip number 4804, though I could not find any reference for 4804.

B

C

Oh he's got an issue.

A

Oh, I'm sorry, I might have missed it. Then.

C

A

Oh yeah, now I remember yes, so I okay fine yeah. This is a classic example like what we should do here. So when someone creates an issue as a discussion to link, we discourage it and we say that people do not create it. He might have received on what notification there go ahead and create an issue in fvm close this issue, and then he is using the same number as a eip number.

A

I don't know if they would like to discourage this thing or I.

F

Don't think it matters that much like um like in eip1. It just says that editors assign eip numbers and I'm perfectly okay using the earliest number to refer to it like it doesn't really matter that. Much to me.

A

That's right, but at the same time they would have to request this person to close the issue right because they would want that discussion should be happening and fem. So he will.

B

A

C

I have no clue where this push notification is coming from, but I've seen it twice now.

C

I'm slightly concerned: well, what's the message: it was like a game changer, a meteorite from mars, just crashed into antarctica like a image of a meteor.

E

And I'm just like what application is pushing this.

E

F

Oh yeah, this is the uh 721 one that for the like, the mirror of.

C

F

C

Wait, I think everybody by the same.

F

Authors, yep yeah, it's like, I think their group is called emoji dow or something like that. They're like doing a bunch of extensions.

B

F

F

I really wish we could just like have like uh ethereum working groups like channel, and I can just have like put everybody who's working on nfts into a channel, and they can just talk about everything in there. Instead of just making a bunch of vips.

F

A

Think there is a telegram group for that. uh Okay, like client, was mentioning annette. Has a group.

C

I would just like to see more, like technical leadership happening there like, if they're just posting about it and nobody's really coordinating amongst them each other, then it doesn't work quite work out.

F

Oh, is this the um the other user permission one.

C

For designate ownership, I think so.

F

Yeah, so this is like- and this isn't by xerox anders right. This is by somebody else. No, this one's different, yeah, okay,.

B

B

B

A

I had to chat with um this open zap link developer for this proposal. They are working on like moving it towards finals, so I thought that sam wilson's comment cannot come handy here like what they need to do. If that can be addressed, this can be moved to final.

C

So it seems like this thing got merged.

A

Oh, it wasn't earlier, that's why I have added it but never mind. Now the only.

C

Deadline is 5 14, though so.

A

I did not understand so this proposal will be going into uh last call one more time.

C

I think that he just extended the last call, because the uh eip was updated and so I'm going to give people a little more time.

B

F

Oh um go to my go to my comment: there: okay, like before you post this, oh yeah, that one so there were a bunch of edits that needed to be done on the um the eip. So I just did them all right!

F

um Oh and it was merged. Okay, so yeah all right! So it's ready to go. Then.

C

A

Oh, it's already past 12.

A

Thank you matt for reviewing all these and then whatever we could not touch. If you get a chance to look in the weekdays uh we, you know, you can probably look into it and leave comment and yeah. I hope that we this way we can look into these proposals real faster, and I am expecting some good news, some more updates in tomorrow's eipip meeting. So if if people can join, that would be really good.

A

Well, thank you. All of us, yeah.

C

Thanks for hosting great yeah thanks peter have.

A

A good one, you.

C